Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S2 Ep31: Let's Talk About Contracts
35 Plays9 months ago
Heather and Veronica discuss contracts in publishing - what you should look out for and what you should make sure you have in place if you're negotiating.
A podcast from 1852 Media.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Corrections
00:00:10
1852media
Hello, hello, and welcome back to For Books Sake. I am Heather Roberts.
00:00:14
Veronica Adams
I am Veronica Adams and we are 1852 Media.
00:00:18
1852media
Yes, and before we begin, we have a quick programming note and an apology to, yes, to Casey McQuiston from last week's episode.
00:00:22
Veronica Adams
Yes. Very important apology.
00:00:30
1852media
We were unaware that Casey goes by they them pronouns. And we should have done the the requisite research into that.
00:00:38
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:00:39
1852media
We do apologize for using the wrong pronouns when referring to you, Casey.
00:00:42
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:00:46
1852media
So we had a lovely listener bring that to our attention. And I wanted to you know say that at the top of this episode and just you know let every everyone know.
00:00:54
Veronica Adams
Yes. Always learning, always growing, always trying to take accountability, you know, what's up, cishet blinders on sometimes, right? Like we don't even think about the sensitivity that we need to have in certain situations.
00:01:04
1852media
Yes.
00:01:08
Veronica Adams
And yeah, we, uh, We used the wrong pronouns for Casey and we apologize for that.
00:01:11
1852media
Unfortunately, yes, we absolutely do.
00:01:14
Veronica Adams
Um, and for not doing the homework that was necessary there. So thanks you to the listener who reached out as well and, and was very kind and graceful in letting us know the mistake that we had made.
00:01:21
1852media
100%. Yes.
00:01:27
Veronica Adams
So we appreciate you too.
00:01:29
1852media
And we always say, please tell us if we're wrong, please correct us.
00:01:32
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:01:33
1852media
And we thank this listener for actually doing that.
00:01:37
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:01:37
1852media
um And this is my apology to not only Casey, but those listening for for making that mistake.
00:01:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:01:47
1852media
but I'm also going to put a note in the the program description as well, letting, so for future listeners, they know that that we made that mistake in that episode.
00:01:53
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:01:56
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:01:58
1852media
I have been off this week, so I haven't been able to do that yet.
00:02:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:02:03
1852media
It is it has been quite a week.
00:02:05
Veronica Adams
Life has been happening, man.
00:02:06
1852media
Life has been happening.
Hosts' Personal Updates
00:02:08
Veronica Adams
Woo.
00:02:09
1852media
We just dropped my son off at college yesterday.
00:02:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah, exciting stuff. Exciting stuff.
00:02:15
1852media
crazy, absolutely crazy.
00:02:16
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Meanwhile, when you and I finished recording today, I'm taking my son for his very first day of school.
00:02:18
1852media
And it's a wild.
00:02:22
Veronica Adams
So like you and I are like in sunrise sunset positions right now, right?
00:02:27
1852media
I know.
00:02:27
Veronica Adams
Cue the fiddler.
00:02:29
1852media
We've always bled parallel lives in a very interesting way.
00:02:32
Veronica Adams
Strangely. Yes.
00:02:33
1852media
Yeah, like in so many different ways.
00:02:33
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:02:35
1852media
So um this is no, no, no, not surprising that this is any different, but
00:02:39
Veronica Adams
Yep. the the parenting and children transitioning into new phases in life at the same time, absolutely another parallel lining up for us.
00:02:48
1852media
Yeah. On this end, it's exciting, as I'm sure it is for you. It's exciting.
00:02:53
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:02:54
1852media
um And I'm just, you know, so excited. I'm frankly a little jealous of his experiences that he's about to have.
00:03:02
Veronica Adams
Oh my God, your son, yes, absolutely.
00:03:03
1852media
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:04
Veronica Adams
Like I'm, you know, milk and cookies and snack time and all that stuff.
00:03:07
1852media
yeah mean
00:03:07
Veronica Adams
Okay, fine. But like,
00:03:08
1852media
yeah
00:03:09
Veronica Adams
what What Jay is doing is just, if I could rewind to any point in my life and redo it, it would be college.
00:03:13
1852media
Yes.
00:03:16
Veronica Adams
Hands down.
00:03:16
1852media
yeah
00:03:16
Veronica Adams
No questions.
00:03:17
1852media
No questions.
00:03:19
Veronica Adams
No questions.
00:03:19
1852media
It was an amazing time in my life.
00:03:21
Veronica Adams
Best four years of my life.
00:03:23
1852media
Yeah, easily, easily.
00:03:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:03:26
1852media
And it's just, college is great.
00:03:29
Veronica Adams
It is.
00:03:29
1852media
College is great. I literally just missed a call from him, so hopefully.
00:03:33
Veronica Adams
Oh, no.
00:03:34
1852media
I didn't talk to him and he just he he has great timing and he just called when we started this podcast because of course he did.
00:03:38
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:03:42
1852media
I think it's because he wants to schedule our dropping off of some things that he forgot.
00:03:46
Veronica Adams
Yes, yes.
00:03:47
1852media
but Let's be honest. Let's be honest.
00:03:49
Veronica Adams
He hasn't completely cut the cord yet still needs mom and dad to come in clutch with those campus deliveries.
00:03:52
1852media
No.
00:03:55
1852media
That's right. I mean, he's very close, so it's not that big of a deal.
00:04:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah.
Understanding Author Contracts
00:04:02
1852media
But today, We thought we'd talk about contracts.
00:04:07
Veronica Adams
up Absolutely.
00:04:08
1852media
Contracts, if you are an author in this industry and you are making this your career, even if you're not, even if it's a hobby situation and these situations are going to pop up for you, you're going to be presented with contracts, different opportunities, different companies.
00:04:17
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:04:23
Veronica Adams
Yep. Absolutely.
00:04:26
1852media
You need to know what to look for.
00:04:28
Veronica Adams
I mean, even your terms and conditions with each real retailer that you publish on, that's a contract that you're entering into.
00:04:28
1852media
ah
00:04:32
1852media
Yes.
00:04:36
1852media
Exactly. And with all of you know the third party people, so people that come and work with us, there's a contract involved.
00:04:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
00:04:44
1852media
There's terms and conditions. You need to understand what these things mean.
00:04:48
Veronica Adams
you If you get covers designed specifically for you, you have a contract with your at at minimum with your graphic designer slash artist.
00:04:51
1852media
Yeah.
00:04:57
Veronica Adams
um And then maybe a contract with the person who took the stock photo or made the custom illustration or took the custom photo for you.
00:05:05
1852media
Right.
00:05:07
Veronica Adams
like it and You have contractual relationships in the layers upon layers in this industry.
00:05:13
1852media
Layers.
00:05:14
Veronica Adams
There's just no way to avoid it.
00:05:16
1852media
Yeah. So I mean, talking about, let's talk about a specific category.
00:05:20
Veronica Adams
Yeah, sure.
00:05:20
1852media
um You know, so there's a category of contracts, maybe you're you're trying to get, this is very popular, trying to get your rights, your subsidiary rights, sold off.
00:05:32
1852media
So that could be ah foreign translations, that could be audio, you know, audio creation, um film and TV rights.
00:05:32
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:05:38
Veronica Adams
Absolutely. Yep.
00:05:42
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:05:42
1852media
These are all different rights that you have as part of that book, that content that you created.
00:05:48
Veronica Adams
Great.
00:05:51
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:51
1852media
You just don't have the, you know, a lot of people just focus on, oh, I just want to get the ebook out and the paperbook out paperback out. But you don't think about the fact that that content, that intellectual property has so many different things that you can do with it.
00:06:03
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:06:07
Veronica Adams
Your ability to sell that story.
00:06:10
1852media
Yeah.
00:06:10
Veronica Adams
in multiple versions of media. I mean, it it doesn't just end with you publishing the ebook, right? or Or the ebook and the paperback, or however many formats you are going to have.
00:06:21
Veronica Adams
You know, some people do hardcovers and large print and all sorts of stuff, right? But the book itself, in whatever format it's available for sale and consumption, isn't the only way you can sell that story.
00:06:25
1852media
Right.
00:06:33
1852media
Right.
Film/TV Rights and Options
00:06:34
1852media
And now there's a lot of things that are popping up, like games.
00:06:38
Veronica Adams
Yes, the entertainment sector has really, really grown for authors in terms of your ability to partition off a piece of your rights and let someone else help you monetize your story in a new way.
00:06:39
1852media
There's, you know, games. Yep.
00:06:51
Veronica Adams
Those games are awesome.
00:06:52
1852media
Right. Yeah, so there's games, there's you know film and TV rights.
00:06:55
Veronica Adams
her
00:06:57
1852media
And my point in saying this is you don't have to sell all of your rights to the same person or the same company.
00:07:03
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:07:04
1852media
When I say person, I mean company.
00:07:04
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:07:06
1852media
You can sell you know your film and TV rights to one company ah you know with a licensing deal where it's limited, right?
00:07:12
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:07:15
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:15
1852media
You don't have to sell all of your books either. We're talking about a single title for a specific period of time.
00:07:21
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:07:22
1852media
um you know, optioning is another thing. So let's talk about the difference between optioning and actual going into production, okay? So when you're optioning a, ah let's call it a movie, right?
00:07:37
1852media
Because that's usually when when that comes into play.
00:07:38
Veronica Adams
Sure. Sure.
00:07:41
1852media
You are essentially selling your story to a specific company that is for an exclusive period of time in which that company is then going to try to go get a producer to make the actual film.
00:07:57
Veronica Adams
Right. The film or the TV show or whatever. Yeah.
00:08:00
1852media
So simply because your title is optioned doesn't mean that your actual movie is going to get made off of your story.
00:08:07
Veronica Adams
all Although you are one step closer to that happening for sure.
00:08:09
1852media
Yes, 100%.
00:08:11
Veronica Adams
Yeah. But your contract there is simply with the person or company who is trying to find a way to make it happen.
00:08:12
1852media
bye
00:08:19
Veronica Adams
It's not actually a guaranteed production that's coming.
00:08:22
1852media
Right. But you are selling them an exclusive ability to do that.
00:08:26
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm. Yes.
00:08:27
1852media
And so you should be compensated for that exclusivity that you are granting them.
00:08:32
Veronica Adams
Absolutely. Right.
00:08:35
1852media
That is what you're selling because anybody could come and you know say that they want to make your story yeah into a movie you know tomorrow.
00:08:39
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:08:44
1852media
Great.
00:08:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:08:45
1852media
then come give me a contract for the actual movie, right?
00:08:48
Veronica Adams
Right, right.
00:08:49
1852media
But if this company wants to have the exclusive right to be able to shop it around, they have to pay for that privilege.
00:08:56
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:08:56
1852media
And some people don't um think about that. They just get very wrapped up in the situation of, oh my God, somebody wants to make my book into a movie.
00:09:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yes.
00:09:07
Veronica Adams
I think we have both seen this in in action over the years at different times with different people.
00:09:07
1852media
And yeah,
00:09:13
Veronica Adams
um I've seen authors agree to option contracts for nothing, for absolutely nothing, because they're so invested in the idea that there's a possibility now that TV or film will be coming.
00:09:19
1852media
For absolutely nothing, yeah.
00:09:27
Veronica Adams
And you're thinking about the TV and film money, not the, I am now limiting myself to this one company shopping this for me. And I need, you know, a lot of people just don't know what they don't know ah in terms of advocating for themselves and negotiating an agreement that fairly compensates them for what they're actually agreeing to.
00:09:35
1852media
Right.
00:09:47
1852media
Because here's the deal, if somebody else comes to you during that period of time in which it's optioned, you have to now funnel them through the option company.
00:09:51
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
Do Authors Need Agents?
00:09:57
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:09:57
1852media
You can't independently go and work with that other company.
00:10:00
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:10:01
1852media
And so they're now getting a you know cut of the proceeds and all of that for something that you know they maybe didn't really do.
00:10:05
Veronica Adams
okay
00:10:09
Veronica Adams
the Yeah, you're your agreement with whomever has the option, that is not dissimilar to a relationship with a lawyer or a real estate agent or any other fiduciary person who manages something for you.
00:10:21
1852media
Right.
00:10:23
Veronica Adams
They are the only party who can work on turning the option into a production during the the timeline set by your contract with them.
00:10:30
1852media
Right.
00:10:33
Veronica Adams
So anybody who says, hey, I'd love to turn your book into a made for TV film or Netflix comes around or, you know, Hollywood calls.
00:10:42
1852media
Yeah.
00:10:43
Veronica Adams
um You have to send all of those people to the folks who have your option, right?
00:10:49
1852media
Right.
00:10:50
Veronica Adams
All of them.
00:10:51
1852media
which can be beneficial and that's great because then they're handling, right, all of the things, but because of the exclusivity nature of it, you should get some type of benefit on the front end of that.
00:10:55
Veronica Adams
Sure, of course.
00:11:01
Veronica Adams
sir
00:11:04
Veronica Adams
Right. Right. Well, and they can agree or not agree to anything that they choose within the limitations of your contract with them.
00:11:06
1852media
So, right.
00:11:13
Veronica Adams
And just because in our little hypothetical, someone shows up and says, Hey, I want to make your book into a movie. If you send them to the company who has your option, they may never come to terms, even if you would agree to what the production company wants.
00:11:25
1852media
Right?
00:11:26
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:11:26
1852media
So, right.
00:11:27
Veronica Adams
So.
00:11:27
1852media
So you need to make sure that you're copacetic with them, that you're, yeah.
00:11:31
Veronica Adams
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:11:33
1852media
And similarly speaking, so do you need an agent for all this sort of stuff?
00:11:38
Veronica Adams
Gosh, we get that question a lot.
00:11:40
1852media
Yeah. And the answer is technically no.
00:11:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah, you can you can absolutely DIY.
00:11:44
1852media
Okay. Technically, no, you don't need. Yeah, you can DIY this yourself. However, having an agent who is knowledgeable, not just any agent, but an agent who is knowledgeable in contracts at the very least of the specific industry in which you are entering and has the ability to negotiate on your behalf, that is crucial to to things that are benefit benefiting you.
00:11:55
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yes.
00:12:08
Veronica Adams
Right. Yep.
00:12:14
1852media
Because when you're entering into these things, the other company, the foreign rights you know publisher, the audio book publisher,
00:12:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:12:23
1852media
yeah the obviously the film and TV people, they have their own attorneys, they have their own, yeah, they have their own companies set up with their contracts made and all of that that benefit them the most, always.
00:12:27
Veronica Adams
Of course they do.
00:12:40
Veronica Adams
Always. It's the whole point of doing it.
00:12:43
1852media
So they're going to send you a contract and you need somebody to look that over. And that could be an agent, that could be an attorney that you hire.
00:12:53
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:12:53
1852media
An agent doesn't have to be an attorney, okay? But an agent is knowledgeable within the industry of, in which you are in.
00:12:56
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:12:59
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:13:01
1852media
And oftentimes they can help you review contracts to say, oh no, no, that's not, that's not a good contract or clause or whatever.
00:13:04
Veronica Adams
Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Now.
00:13:09
Veronica Adams
Your agent could be an attorney, um but if your relationship with them isn't an actual attorney-client relationship, it's an agent-representee relationship, um their obligation to explain the contract to you can be a little bit watered down.
00:13:23
Veronica Adams
So it may be worth it, even if you have an agent, to go get an attorney and pay that person for a couple of hours of their time to really dig through the contract as an attorney and explain it to you with the same level of obligation and duty that an attorney would have.
00:13:34
1852media
Right.
00:13:38
1852media
Correct, because the agent does not, yeah.
00:13:39
Veronica Adams
um That's also, a yep, that their responsibility to you is still to you, but it doesn't carry the same weight and depth that it would if it were, you know, ah exactly, exactly.
00:13:49
1852media
an attorney-client relationship, yeah, 100%. And even if your agent happens to be an attorney, they don't have the same obligation to you to explain things in depth, although they they likely will be able to explain things in a way that you can understand it.
00:13:57
Veronica Adams
Yep. Yes. Great. Sure. Sure. Well, and their, their interest and, and responsibility is still owed to you.
00:14:07
1852media
But it's...
00:14:11
Veronica Adams
And most of the time they're not getting paid unless you're getting paid in some meaningful way. So you can trust them to look out for you, but also again, it it would to me make a lot of sense to just pay for a lawyer, a separate third party lawyer in this situation to do the deep dive.
00:14:16
1852media
Right.
00:14:24
1852media
Yeah, sure. Yeah, um because there's so many different things that can come up in in these and things are popping up every single day.
00:14:31
Veronica Adams
okay Yep.
00:14:34
1852media
And if somebody's not, you know, um you know, looking at that sort of stuff daily, there can be things that that are missed and whatnot.
00:14:35
Veronica Adams
yep
00:14:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:43
1852media
So um even if they're doing the best job that they possibly can do. um But like, for example, AI and the the increase in AI that's been popping off, um you know I'm certain that there's likely things that we you know causes that are being inputted into contracts now that weren't even a year ago.
00:14:52
Veronica Adams
Oh my goodness, right?
00:15:06
Veronica Adams
Sir?
00:15:06
1852media
So these are all things to take into consideration as you're you're looking through these agreements.
00:15:10
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:15:12
1852media
But one one thing I also want to bring up is be very careful about who you're selling your your copyright to.
00:15:20
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:15:20
1852media
You never want to sell that to anyone. That is yours.
00:15:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:15:24
1852media
it needs to You need to ensure that all you're doing is licensing right the use of your copyright for a specific period of time.
00:15:29
Veronica Adams
That's right. Yes. Well, and that is a pretty standard contract term for most creative assets and intellectual property.
00:15:42
Veronica Adams
When you go get a family photographer to take photos of you and your kids or your, you know, whatever, your family events, nine times out of 10, you're buying a license to those photos and the photographer is always going to hold the copyright because they're the one who took those pictures.
00:15:52
1852media
Yes. Right.
00:15:56
Veronica Adams
Um, same thing goes with you as the author for your book. No matter who you are, uh, agreeing to terms with for whatever the next step is, even if it's just an audio book production, never, ever, ever, ever.
00:16:10
Veronica Adams
Unless you were being compensated really, really well and don't mind giving up your right to the book forever.
00:16:15
1852media
Right. Because that's what you're doing.
00:16:16
Veronica Adams
Sell your copyright. Yeah, exactly.
00:16:17
1852media
Yeah.
00:16:19
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:19
1852media
Yeah. Don't sell your copyright. There has to be some sort of amazing terms that I can't even fathom for a reason I don't know.
00:16:21
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:16:27
Veronica Adams
and It would need to be the biggest bag of your career.
00:16:30
1852media
Yeah. um And there has to be some sort of reason that you would want to do that because if you can get the biggest bag of your career and with it something that has that much tangible value,
00:16:35
Veronica Adams
sir
00:16:42
1852media
Why are you selling your copy, right? Is my point.
00:16:44
Veronica Adams
right
00:16:45
1852media
Take a little bit less and there's a longer tail on it. There's just doesn't seem, yeah.
00:16:50
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:16:51
1852media
There would have to be some sort of reason that I can't think of. Okay.
00:16:55
Veronica Adams
yes
00:16:56
1852media
So that's not something that you want to look out for clauses like that because that is, you know, sure.
00:17:00
Veronica Adams
Well, I mean, if you need immediate money, that whatever, you know like that's your that's your prerogative.
00:17:04
1852media
I mean, of course you can agree to anything. I mean,
00:17:07
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:17:09
1852media
Um, I was actually, I was, I was watching a TikTok as it were, of course. Um, but this really, yeah, but this really sort of made me, that when we were just talking about like, you can agree to anything.
00:17:15
Veronica Adams
Naturally.
00:17:21
1852media
Um, there was an attorney and they were asking, you know, like, I can't even remember the the prompt exactly, but he was talking about how attorneys think.
00:17:30
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:17:30
1852media
and how attorneys think differently from other people. And there was a case in which he he was a divorce attorney, family law attorney. And there was a case in which there was a prenup situation in which the, no,
00:17:46
Veronica Adams
Sorry, it wasn't Jen and Ben.
00:17:49
1852media
the husband, if he, you know, if they got a divorce, um he would pay her X amount of dollars in alimony. These this people are like rich, rich, rich, right?
00:17:57
Veronica Adams
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:00
1852media
Um, yeah.
00:18:00
Veronica Adams
Oh, yeah. The, the pay to play con, the, the pay to play clauses where it's like, if, if he does this or you do that, then the other, like the other one gets X.
00:18:09
1852media
And so the other side was, well, you, if, um, you know, you gain for every 10 pounds that you gained during the marriage at divorce, if we get divorced, you will then, um, lose $10,000.
00:18:26
1852media
for every 10 pounds that you gain at the point of divorce.
00:18:30
Veronica Adams
i I am internally raging right now, but that's a whole other issue.
00:18:32
1852media
Yes. And yes, this clause was held up in court in the prenup.
00:18:37
Veronica Adams
Of course it was because the parties can agree to whatever they want to.
00:18:41
1852media
Exactly. And the attorney was, his point was most people would say that's reprehensible. That's unbelievably awful. And he's like, as an attorney, I'm thinking I can work with this on the day of her weigh-in. I'm going to be putting pennies in her pocket.
00:19:00
1852media
um She's going to be on eating Twinkies and you know like eating as much as possible before the day of weigh-in.
00:19:03
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:19:08
1852media
We are going to get that number artificially as high as possible.
00:19:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:19:12
1852media
And then on the other side, on the day of weigh-in, she's going on a juice cleanse.
00:19:16
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:19:18
1852media
She's doing, you know, Epsom salt baths.
00:19:20
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:19:22
1852media
He's like, I can work with this. And that's the difference between an attorney's brain sometimes and and regular civilized society.
00:19:27
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:19:30
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:19:32
1852media
And it's very true. It's true.
00:19:36
Veronica Adams
And unfortunately, if you want to be best protected in these scenarios, you need one of those twisted brains looking at the documents for you and helping you understand what it is you're agreeing to.
00:19:43
1852media
Yes.
00:19:46
1852media
Because my point is in any situation, just within books and everything, you can agree to anything you want, but oftentimes it's best to have an attorney look at it because they're like, okay, well, we can do this, but, and this is how, you know, you're going to have to be putting pennies in your pocket,
00:19:52
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:20:01
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
Agent Contract Clauses
00:20:02
1852media
you know, et cetera, in that scenario.
00:20:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:20:07
1852media
contracts are so important. I mean, there was just that situation with the the agent. Did you hear about? You probably didn't.
00:20:13
Veronica Adams
Probably not.
00:20:14
1852media
So there was a um Excuse me, a situation where an agent on Twitter, I guess um she was complaining, which why why, why, why do you put these things public? I don't understand. She was complaining that her client left her, went to another agent and then got like sold her book to, got some like big six figure deal, right? Like immediately thereafter.
00:20:41
Veronica Adams
Why didn't you get your client the big six-figure deal? why are you Why are you complaining about work you didn't do that someone else got done for them?
00:20:47
1852media
Yeah, i and don't I don't remember all of the...
00:20:51
Veronica Adams
Yeah, the ins and the outs, yeah.
00:20:52
1852media
the situation. um Evidently, she like well she left her she was in she says that she was in negotiations or something. I can't remember. My point is there is always a clause in an agent contract that if your agent is in negotiations on a specific book for a specific book and you can't just leave them and go and sign with somebody else and then cut out that prior agent.
00:21:17
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:21:18
1852media
That's not how that works. There is a clause that protects agents um from from people doing that.
00:21:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah. ah youre Your agency agreement is absolutely going to protect your agent first. There's just no way around that.
00:21:31
1852media
And so my question, yeah.
00:21:31
Veronica Adams
you You were going to compensate them fairly for work that they were in the process of doing if you decide to leave or terminate.
00:21:38
1852media
Right. And so my question was, well, doesn't that agent have that clause in their contract? I don't understand why they're not throwing, why is this a Twitter war when it should be as simple?
00:21:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:48
Veronica Adams
why yeah what Why are we posting this on X? Why aren't we in, in civil court, having a judge tell the author and the new agent that they owe the old agent some money?
00:21:51
1852media
Yeah.
00:21:58
Veronica Adams
Like.
00:21:59
1852media
I mean, I don't understand why you're not just sending a lovely little email to the publisher and saying, hi, here's my contract. I will love my 15% when it's ready. Thank you.
00:22:09
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Please deposit too.
00:22:10
1852media
Because that because they will honor that. um And the author is going to have to sue to stop you from collecting because that's legally binding.
00:22:15
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:20
Veronica Adams
Stop you from collecting.
00:22:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:26
1852media
and So my point is, did she not have that in there?
00:22:29
Veronica Adams
Probably not.
00:22:29
1852media
And if she didn't, that doesn't make a good agent.
00:22:32
Veronica Adams
No.
00:22:32
1852media
Like what the heck are you doing?
00:22:35
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:35
1852media
So in every scenario, there's clauses that you need to be paying attention to, to understand how things are working and know what you're agreeing to.
00:22:44
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:22:47
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:22:48
1852media
I mean, I think that's the biggest thing.
00:22:49
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:50
1852media
um You need to watch out for some stuff. I mean, watch out for selling your rights.
00:22:54
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:22:56
1852media
Watch out for, um you know, selling your rights for longer.
00:22:57
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:23:02
1852media
than licensing your your stuff for longer than is required or necessary.
00:23:06
Veronica Adams
That I and that's a good that. That's a good milestone no matter what the contract is, even if you're pursuing traditional publishing. Understand what the traditional publisher gets from you and how long they get it before you agree to the deal.
00:23:18
1852media
Right. An average deal is seven years. That's average. You can do some due shorter.
00:23:25
Veronica Adams
I've seen a lot of authors end up with 10, 12 even.
00:23:27
1852media
Yep. Some do a little longer.
00:23:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:23:30
1852media
So if you're having a longer deal, there should be something that is compensating you for that additional length.
00:23:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Well, and also there should be arguably ah some sort of provision that requires the publisher to actively market and try to continue to make your books commercially successful for the entire time they have the rights to them.
00:23:54
1852media
Right.
00:23:55
Veronica Adams
I've seen a lot of authors whose publishers just fold or, you know, small press situations, right? Where books are commercially successful at launch and then they just sit and the publisher does nothing with them the entire time they have the rights.
00:24:07
1852media
Oh, yeah. For like six and a half years.
00:24:10
Veronica Adams
Or more. Yeah.
00:24:11
1852media
Yeah, or more. Yeah.
00:24:13
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:14
1852media
They just hang out.
00:24:15
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:24:16
1852media
um And it also varies based upon your, where you're at in your career, right?
00:24:22
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:24:22
1852media
So if you do not sell well in audio, for example, or you haven't sold well in audio before,
00:24:30
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:30
1852media
and you have a publisher who's an audiobook publisher and they're coming to you, you're likely not going to get a huge advance on your first one.
00:24:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:37
1852media
So strategically, I wouldn't sell them your whole catalog yet, even if they want your whole catalog. They probably don't, but let's be honest.
00:24:42
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:24:45
1852media
But let's say they want your whole catalog. Don't sell them your whole catalog up front.
00:24:50
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:24:50
1852media
because they're looking at it, they might want your whole, now I'm reframing, because they might want your whole catalog thinking they can get it for cheap, right?
00:24:54
Veronica Adams
one Right.
00:24:59
1852media
Because you don't have an audio audience.
00:25:01
Veronica Adams
Yeah. It's a great deal for them if you don't know what you have and you don't have the experience or the track record to support a large advance.
00:25:05
1852media
Right.
00:25:10
1852media
Yeah.
00:25:10
Veronica Adams
They're going to come in and try to scoop you up at a bargain basement price and then they're going to make a ton of money.
00:25:15
1852media
On the backend.
00:25:15
Veronica Adams
And then you're going to make your, I don't know, 30 or 40% royalty split.
00:25:20
1852media
Which is fine, but think about it this way.
00:25:21
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:25:23
1852media
Sell them one or two.
00:25:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:25:25
1852media
Let's see how it goes.
00:25:27
Veronica Adams
Let them prove to you what they can do with it first.
00:25:27
1852media
If they go, yes, if they go gangbusters, then, you know, sell them right.
00:25:33
Veronica Adams
Sell them the rest of the catalog.
00:25:35
1852media
But now they're going to be paying more for it.
00:25:38
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:25:39
1852media
And you are also getting compensated at a higher rate, right? Like, so this is beneficial to you as the author.
00:25:42
Veronica Adams
Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:25:46
1852media
So there's a lot of strategy that goes into this. You have to think about things from different perspectives. Know what you have.
00:25:53
Veronica Adams
Same thing with your foreign translations, right?
00:25:55
1852media
Yeah.
00:25:55
Veronica Adams
Like that's always an issue of first impression for authors just entering any other market for the first
00:26:01
1852media
Mm-hmm.
Entering Foreign Markets Strategically
00:26:02
Veronica Adams
time, right?
00:26:02
Veronica Adams
You can DIY it. And a lot of authors have been very successful doing that.
00:26:06
1852media
Yep.
00:26:07
Veronica Adams
um But if you're going to go with a traditional agent and publisher, translator, publisher, Uh, the best thing to do is not to get scooped up for your entire catalog all at once, but to let somebody try one or two books in a series.
00:26:22
Veronica Adams
And if it goes really well, then you negotiate an even better deal for the rest of your catalog or the parts of your catalog that they think are commercially viable in that international market.
00:26:24
1852media
Yeah.
00:26:28
1852media
Yeah.
00:26:33
Veronica Adams
Because depending on where you're being published, some stuff may work there and some stuff may not.
00:26:34
1852media
Yeah.
00:26:38
1852media
Well, that's the whole thing too, because some authors work really well in audio for, I'm just using audio as an example.
00:26:39
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:26:42
Veronica Adams
Yes. Right. Right.
00:26:44
1852media
Some work really, really well in audio. Their books sell amazingly well in audio.
00:26:49
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:26:50
1852media
Others don't.
00:26:51
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:26:52
1852media
They're just books don't translate as well to audio.
00:26:55
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:26:55
1852media
And now also that can have to do with narrators, timing, pacing, you know, the production, right?
00:26:58
Veronica Adams
Yes, production is a huge piece of that, I think.
00:27:02
1852media
Yeah, that can all, you know, come into play. But let's say everything else is equal. Sometimes some books just don't translate as well to audio.
00:27:13
1852media
It's just, that's the nature of things.
00:27:13
Veronica Adams
Right. Right.
00:27:15
1852media
um Some books don't translate or hit well in other countries with foreign rights.
00:27:21
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:27:21
1852media
So why are you giving up all of your rights to something if it may or may not be the best timing for you right now?
00:27:26
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:27:27
1852media
Because this industry is all about timing, right?
00:27:30
Veronica Adams
Oh God, isn't it though?
00:27:31
1852media
It's so, it's, you know, You need to have, right.
00:27:34
Veronica Adams
and And it's the one thing you can't control either. Like you can make all of the plans that you want to make for hitting hard dates and and having launches and and sales and everything. And even with the best of intentions and all of the organization that you can put into getting your calendar right. Other people are also making plans and things that are out of your control are going to happen and.
00:27:56
1852media
Yeah.
00:27:57
Veronica Adams
Everything that you could pick that is just absolutely ideal can end up being a disaster because there are cloud storage internet issues across the globe or there are hackers or there is some sort of natural disaster or mercury is in Gatorade or, you know, like there's just so much.
00:28:07
1852media
Yeah. Yup.
00:28:15
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:28:15
1852media
Anything could happen that you cannot control.
00:28:16
Veronica Adams
Exactly.
Career Decisions and Conclusion
00:28:18
Veronica Adams
Exactly.
00:28:18
1852media
So yeah, luck, timing and good content. You can only control literally one of those.
00:28:22
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:28:24
1852media
So that's why production is so crucial.
00:28:24
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:28:28
1852media
You need to keep producing because anything could happen to your next book.
00:28:28
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes.
00:28:33
Veronica Adams
ah Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:28:35
1852media
Anything.
00:28:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:28:36
1852media
Gotta keep grinding, gotta keep grinding. So I don't know if this was illuminating or if it was just confusing to to people.
00:28:46
Veronica Adams
Messy word salad.
00:28:47
1852media
Yeah, if it was, yeah, it was just word salad, but there's just our, I guess our point is understand your contracts, look at the terms in which you're agreeing to and you know be careful out there because
00:28:54
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:28:59
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Absolutely.
00:29:04
1852media
But know what, you go go into things with eyes wide open. you know If you want to sell off your entire audiobook series on the jump to a publisher for cheap, it's your prerogative.
00:29:20
1852media
You're allowed to do that.
00:29:20
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:29:23
1852media
Would I say that's a very smart business move? No, not necessarily. I personally wouldn't do it. I wouldn't suggest doing it.
00:29:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:31
1852media
But you have the prerogative to do what you want with your career, right?
00:29:35
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:35
1852media
So you need to make the decisions that are best for you.
00:29:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:38
1852media
If you have a bill coming up and you just need that money right now, okay, I get it. You know, like you need to do what's best for you. Just go into it with eyes wide open, know what the options are out there.
00:29:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:52
1852media
That's all we can possibly ask.
00:29:54
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:29:55
1852media
So.
00:29:55
Veronica Adams
Then get, get educated. Take the extra steps to either learn for yourself or to pay a professional to help you. educate yourself and just know know what you're agreeing to.
00:30:06
1852media
Yes. Exactly, exactly. So thank you all so much for coming to our legal TED talk today.
00:30:14
Veronica Adams
Yes, that's right. the The contracts of publishing, yes.
00:30:20
1852media
The contracts of publishing until next time.