Transcript
Heather Roberts: Hi, I'm Heather Roberts.
Veronica Adams: and I am Veronica Adams and together we are 1852 Media.
Heather Roberts: Welcome back to For Book's Sake.
Heather Roberts: Oh my gosh, it's been so long since we recorded. I almost forgot how to do the opening.
Veronica Adams: I know I had like a deer in the headlights moment there for a second. I was like, wait, wait.
Heather Roberts: oh
Veronica Adams: Oh, that's right. Oh, yes, of course.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Here we are. ah The new format for 2025 is new formatting.
Heather Roberts: It's new formatting. I was like, I will muddle through this. and And we got through it. So welcome.
Veronica Adams: a ah
Heather Roberts: Welcome back. Happy to be here.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: We've had some scheduling conflicts, which is why we haven't had an episode so far. Some snow days, some
Veronica Adams: Life, life be life -ing.
Heather Roberts: life be life -ing.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: And so now we are recording on a ah Sunday afternoon, um which we were dropping this tomorrow.
Veronica Adams: That's right.
Heather Roberts: So you are actually only hearing this a day later than recorded.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: Look at us go.
Veronica Adams: and All of our references will be timely for a change.
Heather Roberts: um I know. Our next episode though, let me tease that real quick because we are really excited about that.
Veronica Adams: Yes, this is a good one. I'm very excited about this.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. This is a guest episode and we have a representative from PEN America coming on and we are going to be talking about book banning.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: And if you recall, we did one of our legal ah breakdowns, if you will, of the lawsuits surrounding PEN America. So we're so excited that we have a representative from them coming on.
Veronica Adams: Just circle back and touch base with them and and hear from them directly about how their efforts are going.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: Exactly. So we're going to hear it from the horse's mouth what is that is exactly is going on um and be able to have a further discussion about censorship and book banning in America right now.
Veronica Adams: Wow.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: So look out for that. That one's going to be recorded in about a week.
Veronica Adams: yes
Heather Roberts: so we are yeah And we'll drop it soon after. So really excited about that.
Veronica Adams: Definitely.
Heather Roberts: But today we wanted to talk a little bit about some misinformation that we have been seeing flying around romance landia and just trying to dispel some of that.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: Because listen, we are in a clown show. We are aware we're in a clown show.
Veronica Adams: I like to call it the Wild West.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: It's just completely unregulated, right?
Heather Roberts: but
Veronica Adams: Like, we're all kind of hustling, doing the best we can.
Heather Roberts: yeah
Veronica Adams: Well, most of us are hustling, doing the best we can. Some of us are grifters. But um yeah, like, here there are no rules here, right?
Heather Roberts: Oh, in the industry, wild, wild, wild.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, yeah.
Veronica Adams: Like, and people see some of the craziest, dumbest shit ever. And i like, that's how we got to this episode.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, the industry, I totally agree with you. I meant more of our government is the clown term right now.
Veronica Adams: ear Girl, girl.
Heather Roberts: um So I understand that things are crazy. I guess that was my point. Things are nutty in the world right now. So it is completely understandable that you could see something and immediately believe it because things are believable now that previously.
Veronica Adams: Well, I mean. you
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: We obviously have a media literacy issue as a society in this country in particular.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Veronica Adams: It's pretty easy to think that every single thing you see has veracity to it, right? Because it's been published in some way, shape, or form. Someone has put it out there on the internet in in the form of content.
Veronica Adams: So why would they do that?
Heather Roberts: With confidence.
Veronica Adams: Why would they do that if it's not true?
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: So yeah, discernment is very important.
Heather Roberts: So there's a lot of that going on right now.
Heather Roberts: Yes. So, well, let's see. The first thing, let's talk about Colleen Hoover, for example.
Veronica Adams: Girl.
Heather Roberts: Oh my God, so many rumors flying around about Colleen.
Veronica Adams: Well, the the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni thing has gotten so completely messy. i'm I'm not at all surprised that Coho has gotten dragged into the fray and that like there are now rumors and allegations and suspicions and questions about her the future of her career. like
Heather Roberts: Well, yes. I mean, people have said that she's deleted all of her social media.
Veronica Adams: She has not. I saw a story this morning.
Heather Roberts: She's not.
Veronica Adams: She posted with a puppy on it. So cute.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, she's not deleted it.
Veronica Adams: Nope.
Heather Roberts: Maybe maybe she's just limited. ah Who's seeing it? I don't know.
Veronica Adams: ah Listen, who hasn't limited their social recently?
Heather Roberts: Right, right. But she has not deleted all of her social media. She might have you know deactivated some of it just because she doesn't want to deal with it.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: um I don't believe that the rumors about her not writing ever again in the future are true either.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: That would be surprising to me. I imagine she doesn't need to, but she's a writer um and she loves to write. So I would be surprised if she never wrote anything again.
Heather Roberts: She likely will be taking a long break because she can um and good for her. So.
Veronica Adams: listen Listen, E .L. James hasn't done much since the film Options for Fifty Shades.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: Like, she she hasn't had to. She's very selective about what what she works on and what she's done since.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Heather Roberts: What project she does and she does she has written some.
Veronica Adams: Colleen will now enjoy that same privilege.
Heather Roberts: Exactly.
Veronica Adams: And she should!
Heather Roberts: As she should.
Veronica Adams: if that's her prerogative, yeah.
Heather Roberts: right So yeah, calm down everyone. ah Speaking about the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni situation, we are well aware, we owe you a part two.
Heather Roberts: We we are well aware. There has been so much that has dropped since we did that first episode.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, we you should just transpose two clown emojis over our faces for the video right now because you and I thought, okay, the suits are out. We've got the allegations. We're going to go to trial. There will be a mediation.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: They'll settle. It'll all go away, right? Oh, no. No, no, no.
Heather Roberts: No.
Veronica Adams: We had no idea this shit that was still yet to be dropped. And my God, has it been a messy, what, three or four weeks since we first addressed the lawsuits?
Heather Roberts: Right. It's been a lot. And so we want to make sure that we're only providing accurate information and that we are able to provide proper opinions, right?
Veronica Adams: Whoo.
Heather Roberts: I want to be able to have some information to be able to fully talk about this so that we're not just another show where it's just throwing out allegations or or whatnot.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: So, yeah.
Veronica Adams: I would love to throw out some allegations, but I'll save them for the episode.
Heather Roberts: Well, you definitely do that. But we can tell you right now, I need to read some of the the the more recent filings and I haven't had time to do that.
Veronica Adams: Yes. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: We have some, I mean, it's constant.
Veronica Adams: Well, it like more stuff comes out. it's It's constant with these two. And I don't i don't know, in in the name of in the in the name of transparency, I don't really know who to believe. I think there's probably a little bit of truth and a little bit of non -truth on both sides here.
Heather Roberts: Sure.
Veronica Adams: um But like it it just keeps getting messier and messier.
Heather Roberts: doing that.
Veronica Adams: and it
Heather Roberts: From like an overarching view, just looking down without having read in detail all the most recent filings, I will say that it looks like both sides were super messy, like both sides had different expectations of what was happening in here.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yup.
Heather Roberts: And then you add in the publicist drama
Veronica Adams: Girl.
Heather Roberts: And they were back channeling, they had their own intentions and their own things that they were trying to, PR nightmare.
Veronica Adams: The GR nightmare.
Heather Roberts: When PR firms need a PR firm, that is a problem, okay?
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: It's a problem. so Yeah, your publishers should not need their own publicist.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Okay. But yeah, so that's a whole messy, drama, tastic filled lawsuit thing.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And the plans that were put out about that and then, I mean, the videos and the text messages that have been dropped since the initial lawsuits have been filed.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, there's there' is a lot there that's dispelling ah some of the claims that were made, but then also it brings up other questions.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, yeah.
Heather Roberts: So there's just, yeah, we need to go through it a little closer, with ah like a little deeper with a fine tooth comb.
Veronica Adams: What we need is for these people to go to mediation, file nothing for about two weeks, and then we can catch up and do a deep dive into where we're at while they're mediating. Like, yes, I believe that one of the most recent filings has been petitions by both sides to ah forego mediation and just proceed to trial.
Heather Roberts: True, true. But didn't they just decide not to do mediation?
Heather Roberts: Which is, you know, right.
Veronica Adams: Like any federal judge is going to be like, yeah, sure. Let's avoid the dispute resolution process. Let me just get you right here on my calendar.
Heather Roberts: I've never, I've never known a federal judge that would be like, yeah, sure.
Veronica Adams: It's next summer work for you guys.
Veronica Adams: Never. Never.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: If they can get a retired judge or a professional mediator to settle it for them, they always will.
Heather Roberts: Now, always will.
Veronica Adams: Always.
Heather Roberts: They don't want it on their calendar.
Veronica Adams: No.
Heather Roberts: They have enough shit on their calendars, okay?
Veronica Adams: Right.
Heather Roberts: They do not want something else, so they would prefer you work it out.
Veronica Adams: yeah.
Heather Roberts: Now, granted, if you can't work it out, fine, whatever, but you've gone through the mediation process. I have never known a federal judge to be like, sure, you can dispel mediation. Let's just go to trial. So we'll see what happens.
Heather Roberts: um but right now they don't wanna go to mediation.
Veronica Adams: yeah yeah.
Heather Roberts: So, you know.
Veronica Adams: yep there's some subpoenas out there that are probably.
Heather Roberts: and
Veronica Adams: as broad as you would expect them to be and perhaps over broad and we'll have to also be litigated via discovery motion practice.
Heather Roberts: And i have I have to throw it out there. um It is very possible that somebody's social media accounts could be deactivated due to some of the subpoena processes that are happening.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: I don't know if that is true or not.
Veronica Adams: but Preservation of evidence.
Heather Roberts: Yes. um So that could be another reason why things are appearing the way that they are.
Veronica Adams: Ooh.
Heather Roberts: We don't know, but it is an idea.
Veronica Adams: Yeah. one one One would anticipate that perhaps the author would have inside knowledge or data in the form of communications that might need to be preserved and turned over to the attorneys as part of their preparations for trial and taking depositions and everything else that happens.
Heather Roberts: One would think. Yeah.
Veronica Adams: But yeah.
Heather Roberts: So things things are happening there. And we will get into the nitty gritty when we have a moment to breathe and can actually dive into it in a proper way.
Veronica Adams: Crazy. Yes.
Heather Roberts: But we recognize it's probably not just going to be two parts. This is going to be an ongoing situation until resolved.
Veronica Adams: Until this case settles or there's a a verdict.
Heather Roberts: which Yeah, I going to say,
Veronica Adams: We'll just have to have like a ah once monthly Blake and Justin check in. It did not in fact end with us. It is ongoing indefinitely, maybe into perpetuity.
Heather Roberts: the
Heather Roberts: Yeah, it did not in fact end with us. um And yeah, we were not aware when we signed up to, you know, voluntarily, obviously, we did this for ourselves, that we were going to be in this for a minute.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: But we're in it now. So it is.
Veronica Adams: It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Heather Roberts: um And we will talk about it as things continue to come out.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: But <unk> I just wanted to give you an update about that. ah So that's why we haven't done that episode.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: we've we've Life's been lifing over here um in a positive way. I have some family in town.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: you had Your child's school was canceled due to some other things.
Veronica Adams: Yep.
Heather Roberts: So we've we've had some some things going on.
Veronica Adams: We have had some things.
Heather Roberts: We had some things. Um, but, oh, so other misinformation I've seen flying around.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: and Okay. Is this Oklahoma bill that is being put out, um, the posts that I've seen have said like, you know, this, this is going to ban romance books.
Heather Roberts: Okay.
Veronica Adams: In the state of Oklahoma.
Heather Roberts: In the state of Oklahoma, this dude, um,
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: this state legislator, this elected official.
Heather Roberts: yeah, state legislature. elected official has put forth a bill that essentially tries to ban pornography. Okay. That is the basics of the bill. And the problem is there, there's, I mean, so there's a couple of things here. Number one, the bill as it is currently written, even in its most generous take,
Heather Roberts: um does would not cover written materials, okay?
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: um So it's talking about video um and and then the like.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Another problem with it is that it takes out, it it doesn't, it's not constitutional in which, the way in which it is written. There is ah something, I mean, not that he cares, but there's something called the Miller test that was issued by the Supreme Court for now that currently, yeah,
Veronica Adams: For now. For now there's now there is something called the Miller test.
Heather Roberts: And it uses, so the Miller test requires that something, ah you know, it talks about obscenity, right?
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And it's, what is obscenity? I know it when I see it, but that's one of the quotes, you know, from the Supreme Court.
Veronica Adams: Potter Stewart, man. I know it when I see it.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, I know it when I see it.
Veronica Adams: It's classic.
Heather Roberts: But the Miller test specifically talks about, you know, like the, what, what you see, we don't need to get into all of that.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: But one of the pieces, no,
Veronica Adams: It appeals to the Purian interest and all of that if it has no artistic, literary, political or scientific value.
Heather Roberts: overall that the overall work has no sign scientific artistic political value.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: the laps test, yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yes. What this particular Oklahoma bill does is take that and instead of saying overall, it it allows you to pull out like a piece and ask if that has any scientific artistic or political value.
Veronica Adams: Oh, so we're drilling down and we're bypassing the over, we're we're not taking the work as a whole. we are If we can find anything in it that lacks any sort of redeeming value under the lapse test, we are banning it because we are afraid of consenting adults making their own decisions about how they have fun with their own bodies.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: yeah that Yes. That is what this law does. Now, is that an easy?
Veronica Adams: People have lost their damn minds.
Heather Roberts: I know. Is that an easy slippery slope to romance novels?
Veronica Adams: It's huge.
Heather Roberts: 1 ,000%. 1 ,000%.
Veronica Adams: that that is that is us that That is a speeding train to romance novels.
Heather Roberts: Yes. So do I understand why people are alert? Yes.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: However, I will know that this elected official is notorious for putting up these types of bills. Okay. This is his shtick. This is what he does.
Veronica Adams: he's he's He's pandering to the base and doing stuff that he can raise money on and run on run for reelection with the support of.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: See, I did this in furtherance of you the things that you guys appreciate as part of our our culture war.
Heather Roberts: Yes. Right. Look, I tried.
Veronica Adams: right like i am I'm the good guy.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: I understand the interpretation of this holy text and I'm now trying to legislate based on it the way you want me to. Now give me money so I can run for reelection.
Heather Roberts: Right. I'd love to see this guy's browser history. um But also,
Veronica Adams: I'd love to keep him a hundred yards away from my son.
Heather Roberts: that too, that too. But yeah, not one of his bills has ever, ever, ever, ever been passed in the Oklahoma legislature.
Veronica Adams: No, there's a first time for everything.
Heather Roberts: Okay. There is always a first time for everything, but not one of them has ever been passed.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And also, um you know, he's, he does this notoriously. This is what he does. He's drumming up in, you know, to his he is pandering.
Veronica Adams: He's that guy.
Heather Roberts: So the fact that this is out there, you know, not great. Is it going to go anywhere? Probably not. But the fact that it exists and it is real, yes, that is concerning.
Heather Roberts: But I just want everybody to take a breath and not, you know,
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: dive off the deep end when they see things like this. Let's look at these things.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Let's take a breath, realize that they're bad. Why are they bad?
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: What could they lead to? But also recognize that this doesn't have any real relevant effect right now.
Veronica Adams: yeah Well, not to get too deeply political, but in the
Heather Roberts: yeah We've already and far died on that hill.
Veronica Adams: in me In the post -row world in which we live, it's it that this is how it happened, right?
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Something that something that was seen by moderates and people from center to left as absolutely impossible.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: Sure.
Veronica Adams: um you know it It's how many times how many sitting members of the Supreme Court are on record during their congressional hearing saying it's subtle precedent.
Heather Roberts: Oh my God, all of them.
Veronica Adams: It's subtle precedent. It's subtle precedent, right? like We can probably we could probably pull out nine video quotes of all nine of them saying it's subtle precedent, right?
Heather Roberts: 100 % of them.
Heather Roberts: ah
Veronica Adams: And then one day it wasn't anymore. And you know that's scary.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: in a situation like this, where you just want the right to consume the entertainment that you want to consume as a consenting adult.
Heather Roberts: Right. So I get it. I 1000 % agree.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, yeah.
Heather Roberts: And I get it. I just want people I've seen a lot of posts of people talking about how this is happening right now.
Veronica Adams: and Take a deep breath.
Heather Roberts: And like, yeah, take a deep breath, like
Veronica Adams: it It's a threat, but it's not real yet.
Heather Roberts: Correct, correct.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, yeah.
Heather Roberts: Just like how red, white, and blue land is not real yet. Okay, so.
Veronica Adams: I'm sorry. i The flooding, the zone with all of the bullshit, the distractions and stuff. it it I shouldn't laugh. It's not funny. um People are going to be hurt.
Heather Roberts: as It is.
Veronica Adams: But like, it it it's such a circus. It's such a circus.
Heather Roberts: As I told a Canadian friend when I, I laughed at something and she was like, this is really serious. Like we're not taking this. Like this isn't funny. And I was like, listen, I get it's not funny. I understand that, but we laugh because if we laugh, we will, if we don't laugh, we will cry.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Heather Roberts: Like, and I cannot be in a constant state of depression for four years.
Veronica Adams: Right. Listen, I have to make fun of the Gulf of America because these people could not respect transgender folks changing their names and their pronouns.
Heather Roberts: and
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Veronica Adams: But now we're calling a whole body of water by a brand new name, because we don't like Mexicans anymore. Like what the fuck?
Heather Roberts: It's wild. The whole thing is wild.
Veronica Adams: Right, right.
Heather Roberts: So we have, we have to laugh.
Veronica Adams: So hope with that with a bit of dark humor and laughter and and making fun of the stuff that is actually so unserious, it is really laughable.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. But we recognize that these things are, you know, potentially harmful.
Veronica Adams: Of course, of course.
Heather Roberts: Um, we're not, we're not, yeah.
Veronica Adams: And not everybody agrees about every piece of them either. like And that's okay too.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: For now, wallets while we still don't have thought crime in this country, although that's probably going to happen eventually too.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. i So I tell you, I'm rewatching Handmaid's Tale right now.
Veronica Adams: yeah Oh God, how? i I'm sorry, I'm clinging to the neoliberal hope of West Wing and the newsroom and
Heather Roberts: Yeah. I mean, ah classic favorites. But no, well, there's a new season coming out in April, OK, number one.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, yes.
Heather Roberts: and Number two, I don't know. i I'm a masochist. I don't know. I'm just rewatching it.
Veronica Adams: No, you're a prepper is what you are.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, honestly, it's giving me hope. And yes,
Veronica Adams: This is like you politically color coding a spreadsheet for class or for work. Like you're studying the game tape right now is what you're doing.
Heather Roberts: that's basically what this is. Yeah, so I am watching this and you know it's really good the second time around. I think it's because the first time you're so shocked by everything that's happening.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: The second time you pick up on more and you can actually follow the story more.
Veronica Adams: Especially if you haven't read Atwood, because the Handmaid's Tale is one of my favorite books from like my teen years. I found Margaret Atwood when we were probably in 9th or 10th grade.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: And um my husband had never read Atwood at all, none of her stuff. And so when we watched it the first time together, like he was floored and I'm like, oh, just wait until you see what happens.
Heather Roberts: ah Just wait and see.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, so it's it it there there is that big shock value and that shock factor in the first watch especially, but um you're taking more away from it now on the rewatch.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, oh, absolutely.
Veronica Adams: Awesome. Awesome.
Heather Roberts: um So yeah, I mean, so that's what I'm doing. We're trying to prepare. I'm just asking everybody Take a deep breath with misinformation as you see it.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Let's you know all come together collectively to try to make it through this.
Veronica Adams: Question everything.
Heather Roberts: Question everything.
Veronica Adams: Question everything.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Do your own research.
Heather Roberts: Let's see your own research.
Veronica Adams: Facts don't care about your feelings.
Heather Roberts: Yes. And we will be back this next week with a representative from Pan America.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: And we are so excited about that.
Veronica Adams: That'll be a great episode.
Heather Roberts: So we will see you then.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: Thank you for coming to this episode of For Book's Sake.
