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Author Series: Starting From Scratch
29 Plays15 days ago
Heather and Veronica chat with new author Campbell Linden! What is it like to be an author in their first year? What is the biggest lesson learned? Find out this and so much more about Campbell, her books and her upcoming series! You - like us - will fall in love with her stories and her!
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast
00:00:00
Heather Roberts
I am Heather Roberts.
00:00:02
Veronica Adams
I am Veronica Adams and we are 1852 Media.
00:00:16
Heather Roberts
Hello, hello, and welcome back to For Books Sake. I, again, am Heather Roberts. I am thrilled to be back here today.
Guest Introduction: Campbell Linden
00:00:24
Heather Roberts
ah we have a guest with us. We have Campbell Linden, who is an author. She's been about a published author for about a year now.
00:00:34
Heather Roberts
And this is the launch of our new series where we are going to be talking to authors at
00:00:35
Sue Fleishman
This is...
New Series Announcement: Authors' Journeys
00:00:40
Heather Roberts
different stages in their careers. And we thought this would be really fun and just, you can get different tips and tricks from everybody and see where you're at.
00:00:50
Heather Roberts
And we thought it would be very relatable for everybody at different phases of their career. So welcome Campbell. Thank you for being our zero to one person.
00:00:59
Veronica Adams
yes welcome yay everybody starts somewhere
00:01:04
Heather Roberts
Yay.
00:01:04
Sue Fleishman
Yay.
00:01:06
Heather Roberts
And no, it's true. oh You know, you have to start somewhere.
00:01:08
Veronica Adams
ah
00:01:09
Heather Roberts
Everybody has been in your position before.
Campbell's Publishing Journey
00:01:12
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:01:12
Heather Roberts
And so, you know, I really feel like you have done so well in this past year.
00:01:19
Heather Roberts
You've published four books and you are working on some more, which we will definitely talk about. um
00:01:24
Veronica Adams
amazing
00:01:25
Sue Fleishman
Yes, ma'am.
00:01:26
Heather Roberts
But yeah, I mean, tell us a little bit about what made you want to start writing because this is a second act for you.
00:01:34
Sue Fleishman
It is.
00:01:34
Heather Roberts
And, um you know, what what made you want to pivot in your career? And what do you write?
00:01:41
Sue Fleishman
um i write ah romance for people.
00:01:43
Heather Roberts
Oh, no. Did she freeze right when she was about to have to answer a question? Oh, no.
00:01:47
Veronica Adams
Oh
00:01:48
Heather Roberts
Hopefully she comes back to us soon.
00:01:49
Sue Fleishman
Wait, what?
00:01:51
Heather Roberts
Oh, no. Oh, no. Technical difficulties.
00:01:55
Veronica Adams
Oh, the editing on this one's gonna be heavy.
00:01:57
Heather Roberts
It is. um It's fine. You know what? It's all good. Are you there? Are you with us, Campbell?
00:02:02
Sue Fleishman
I am.
00:02:03
Heather Roberts
Okay, go ahead.
00:02:03
Sue Fleishman
yeah
00:02:03
Veronica Adams
Yay! Okay.
00:02:04
Heather Roberts
Answer for now.
00:02:04
Sue Fleishman
Wait, can you hear me?
00:02:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah, you were freezing right when you were answering your question.
00:02:06
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:02:08
Sue Fleishman
oh I'm so sorry. OK, I started writing because i loved romance. I love the genre. And i started reading romance after nine eleven when I wanted to escape.
00:02:21
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:02:21
Sue Fleishman
Couldn't take the news. My job was very heavily news focused. I was the head of corporate communications for a studio at the time. And I really just needed an escape.
00:02:35
Sue Fleishman
And the escape became those books, starting with Nora Roberts. And I just read and read and read. And I still read all the time.
00:02:46
Sue Fleishman
And um I found Heather ah through the back of one of the books that I was reading and which was great. And, um and so anyway, we established a relationship and I let her know that I felt like I had something in progress already, but,
00:03:06
Sue Fleishman
I had just decided that I was retiring from my other life and I was going to try to do this. And so that's that's how Stay With Me was born.
00:03:12
Heather Roberts
right.
Themes in Campbell's Books
00:03:16
Sue Fleishman
And um I write about people later in their lives finding love and the fact that, ah as I said once, you know we aren't dead just because we're over a certain age
00:03:28
Heather Roberts
and right
00:03:30
Sue Fleishman
Sex is still very much at the forefront and and romance and love and second chances and all of those things are very important to me. So um and so here i am.
00:03:44
Heather Roberts
I love it. I love it. Yeah, it was so fun when you reached out. I love working with newer authors, especially because it's it's all brand new. you know Veronica and have been doing this.
00:03:55
Heather Roberts
I've been doing this for about a decade, Veronica just a little bit less. And you know, it's easy to be like, oh, this is rote. This is the same thing over and over and over again.
00:04:03
Veronica Adams
yes yeah
00:04:06
Heather Roberts
But with a new author, everything's new and everything's new and exciting to you. And so you just bring a fun energy with that you don't often get to see in the job with with our
The Business Side of Writing
00:04:17
Heather Roberts
job.
00:04:17
Heather Roberts
So it's always so much fun to work with newer authors.
00:04:17
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:04:20
Heather Roberts
What was the most shocking thing or overwhelming thing from the beginning that you can remember?
00:04:28
Sue Fleishman
Well, I remember knowing and i asked you about this recently because I was just looking for ah some sort of reinforcement and perhaps hoping that the number had gone down, which it has not.
00:04:39
Sue Fleishman
And that is that 60,000 words is, you know, your average is what you need to do for a book. And probably the most daunting thing for me that.
00:04:47
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:50
Sue Fleishman
What in the world? how am I going to write 60,000 words? And um it happened. and And but but that was really overwhelming to me was was do I have that in me?
00:04:58
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:05:03
Sue Fleishman
I mean, am I do I have that?
00:05:04
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:05:06
Sue Fleishman
ability to just keep going and going. And is it going to be boring or will people yawn or, you know, am I going to bore myself, which I frequently do? you know, it was like, am I going to be yawning?
Campbell's Writing Process
00:05:20
Sue Fleishman
um So, so I would say that that was probably the most overwhelming thing that, and then just the thought of, of getting a story out and,
00:05:32
Sue Fleishman
and hitting all the different points that I think you have to hit. I mean, I just started doing this.
00:05:36
Heather Roberts
Oh, yeah.
00:05:36
Sue Fleishman
I didn't study anything. I took one class from Grub Street um and that a friend of mine had recommended a friend who's been writing fiction for a long time, um short stories.
00:05:41
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:05:41
Heather Roberts
Love it. Love
00:05:49
Sue Fleishman
She morphed from a journalist into into doing that. She's one of my best friends from from college, from Middlebury. And we are still very, very dear friends. And Um, so anyway, she recommended it and I took it, but it was like a morning long seminar.
00:06:07
Sue Fleishman
It was hilarious. There was an octogenarian on there who wants to know all about writing sex. That's all she wants to know. She's like, well, how do I do this? And what can I do? and Meanwhile, I'm like, all right, this gives me hope.
00:06:19
Veronica Adams
Oh, to have been a flag on the wall.
00:06:20
Heather Roberts
yeah You're okay. You're okay.
00:06:21
Sue Fleishman
i think i think um I think I'm on to something here. And so anyway, so that was really fun. um And I wrote down all these notes and we were going away on a vacation. And so I took the notes with me and i started writing on my iPad.
00:06:39
Sue Fleishman
and And so that's how my first book was born. But I would just say the daunting thing for me it was just ah how am I going to do this? And can I?
00:06:49
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:06:49
Sue Fleishman
Can I? Do I have enough to say?
00:06:52
Heather Roberts
Yeah. No, that, I mean, that makes total sense. And well, with new authors, when I, when I bring them into the fold, I like to sort of help walk them through things that are needed business wise, right?
00:06:59
Sue Fleishman
mr
00:07:05
Heather Roberts
Because now you own your own business. ah You are your own publisher now.
00:07:07
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:07:09
Heather Roberts
And I like to walk you through in stages because I do find that the business side of writing can be very overwhelming to somebody.
00:07:17
Sue Fleishman
Oh yes.
00:07:18
Heather Roberts
ah with, you know, when you're first coming in, because there's so much that can be done. Did you find that part easy? Did you do like, you're shaking yes and no.
00:07:29
Veronica Adams
ahil Immediate no.
00:07:29
Sue Fleishman
now No,
00:07:29
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:07:30
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:07:31
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:07:32
Sue Fleishman
I didn't find it easy at all. And I still don't understand it. You still are holding my hand very hard.
00:07:37
Heather Roberts
I try. I try.
00:07:38
Sue Fleishman
You know, but I apologize for that.
00:07:39
Heather Roberts
and
00:07:41
Sue Fleishman
But, you know, it's old dogs, new tricks.
00:07:41
Heather Roberts
now
00:07:44
Sue Fleishman
yeah um But I find it. No, that part's really daunting. And, you know, you also have to get out like I started obsessively checking Amazon, like to see how many pages and, you know, and and right now I don't have i' I have something new coming out shortly.
00:07:55
Heather Roberts
Oh yeah.
00:08:02
Sue Fleishman
But you know you get one order or you see that a certain amount of pages have been read and um it can be really depressing.
Introducing 'Begin Again' Series
00:08:14
Sue Fleishman
So I had to also stop myself um from doing that and just give over to the process.
00:08:14
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:08:15
Heather Roberts
No.
00:08:21
Sue Fleishman
But no, the business side of it, I still don't understand all the acronyms. I still don't know all the lingo. I'm still kind of like, uh-huh, okay.
00:08:30
Heather Roberts
You can always ask me, Sue. If I say something that you don't understand, you can always ask me.
00:08:36
Sue Fleishman
No, I know I do. i do. But it's like, you know, it's just not um it's I'm not conversant in it.
00:08:38
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:08:43
Sue Fleishman
I'm not you know, I'm not um ah terribly literate in it.
00:08:43
Heather Roberts
Well,
00:08:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:08:48
Sue Fleishman
And so it's something it's something I've had to learn.
00:08:52
Heather Roberts
I think that too, and also as as another great reminder for our listeners, reviews are for readers. They are not for authors. When you as an author put your book baby out into this world, it is no longer yours.
00:09:05
Heather Roberts
It is it is now in universe's.
00:09:05
Sue Fleishman
Right?
00:09:08
Heather Roberts
um So that is also something that you have to, as an author, really get used to that You know, a bad review is fine.
00:09:14
Sue Fleishman
true.
00:09:16
Heather Roberts
You know, it's okay to it's actually great to have a bad review because it shows different varying opinions.
00:09:17
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:09:22
Heather Roberts
And i sometimes find that bad reviews can sell books even, you know, that's
00:09:27
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. Well, sometimes you read why someone doesn't like something and you think, oh, but I might like it just because that person didn't like it.
00:09:33
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:09:33
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:09:33
Heather Roberts
correct.
00:09:35
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:09:35
Sue Fleishman
You know, and I had to I mean, I can be ah I had to grow a really tough skin um given the work I did over last 30 plus years.
00:09:42
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:09:44
Sue Fleishman
So um and no one was ever happy ever with anything i did. There was always someone who was upset. You know, you're favoring the film division over TV.
00:09:56
Sue Fleishman
You like them over this. You know, that story was bullshit. You should tell the TV story versus the film or whatever it was.
00:10:05
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:10:05
Sue Fleishman
They always felt like stepchildren, you know, which is hilarious now, given the state of the media industry.
00:10:05
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:10:09
Sue Fleishman
But anyway, um you know, it. it So as a result, I figured, you know, can handle things. But when you do read something that's critical and it's your own, you know, it's your own imagination, something of something that is sprung from your own imagination.
00:10:29
Sue Fleishman
yeah i wanted to, like, punch the person.
00:10:31
Veronica Adams
ah Well, how could you not? That's your art. You put your blood, sweat, in tears and tears into that.
00:10:32
Heather Roberts
run
00:10:36
Sue Fleishman
I was like, fuck you, you try doing this.
00:10:37
Veronica Adams
Like that is a a vulnerable reflection of you and someone doesn't like it. I mean, how dare they?
00:10:42
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:10:44
Veronica Adams
Of course. Yeah.
00:10:46
Sue Fleishman
So, you know, that took a little getting used to too.
00:10:49
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:10:50
Heather Roberts
It does take a little getting used to.
00:10:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah. That, that level of toughness in the face of that vulnerability. That's it admirable.
00:10:56
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, so I don't know if I'm ever gonna get over that.
00:10:58
Veronica Adams
And you have to develop that. Yeah.
00:11:01
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:11:02
Sue Fleishman
But, you know, I have had a ton of therapy too. So, you know, I try to work through everything.
00:11:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And listen, I don't know if it ever goes away because we've had clients who've been writing for, you know, a decade or more.
00:11:10
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:11:14
Heather Roberts
and like she, why one that I'm thinking of, she just messaged me the other day, she's about to release a book and she's like, I'm still nervous. Why does this happen every time?
00:11:22
Veronica Adams
yeah yeah
00:11:24
Heather Roberts
I'm still nervous.
00:11:25
Veronica Adams
I had this conversation with an experienced author last week.
00:11:25
Heather Roberts
Like,
00:11:26
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:11:28
Veronica Adams
We were talking about reviews and she said, I mean, she's got, I don't know, 70 books out there.
00:11:33
Veronica Adams
um Yeah, she's been writing for a long time. And she goes, I still don't read read the reviews. so I'm 10 plus years into this journey for my career and I still don't look at them at all because I can't.
00:11:33
Sue Fleishman
Oh my God.
00:11:43
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:11:44
Veronica Adams
it It's too hard.
00:11:45
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:11:46
Heather Roberts
too vulnerable too much yeah so it's okay so you don't have to read them
00:11:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:47
Sue Fleishman
Yes. It's hard.
00:11:52
Sue Fleishman
yeah
00:11:52
Veronica Adams
ye
00:11:52
Sue Fleishman
Good.
00:11:52
Heather Roberts
ah it
00:11:54
Sue Fleishman
Good. I don't have, that's one less agitation and in a day that's built with them.
00:11:57
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:11:57
Heather Roberts
yeah and totally totally well so let's let's talk about your new series that's coming out so tell us a little bit about it what's that title the title first book and what's it about
00:12:04
Sue Fleishman
Okay.
00:12:06
Sue Fleishman
Okay.
00:12:09
Sue Fleishman
Title of the first book is Settle for More, and it's a begin again series. So I just finished the first four books I wrote were part of the second chance romance.
00:12:22
Sue Fleishman
um
00:12:22
Heather Roberts
Yes. Time's Love series.
00:12:24
Sue Fleishman
That's what they were.
00:12:25
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:12:25
Sue Fleishman
Yes. Timeless love series. This is a begin again series that takes place in a small town. um And it's about three sisters who inherit various properties from a great uncle, estranged great uncle, whom they really didn't have much to do with because the matriarch of the family got in a fight with them and stopped speaking to them. Who, by the way, is just like my real grandmother, who's no longer with us, but who would, you know, stop talking to people and then forget why stopped.
00:12:56
Sue Fleishman
And so, you know, seven years later, you're like, why aren't you talking to Auntie Anna who lives next door to you again? And why has it been seven years that you haven't spoken to her, even though you live next door to her
00:13:06
Veronica Adams
ah
00:13:08
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:13:08
Sue Fleishman
And, you know, so that sort of thing. So anyway, so the sisters might go to a reading of the will when he, when Uncle Silas croaks and learn, they learn that they've each inherited a business in their hometown.
00:13:24
Sue Fleishman
The two two live in New York and one lives in LA and the eldest lives in LA. And so they find out that part of the stipulation is in order to inherit these properties, they have to go back and live in their hometown.
00:13:38
Sue Fleishman
So my first book about the eldest daughter, Tess, she's in retail in Los Angeles, successful with ah with her business partner and best friend. And they run this boutique kind of cool retail little chain.
00:13:54
Sue Fleishman
And she finds out she's got to go home to Danville Falls, population 8,000, Danville Falls, Connecticut.
00:14:02
Sue Fleishman
And you know she's back living in her parents' house in her old bedroom. And her high school crush, who never gave her the time of day, turns out to be a contractor. She's inherited a gift shop.
00:14:02
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:14:16
Sue Fleishman
The gift shop's a mess. What else happens?
00:14:20
Heather Roberts
Tarks fly.
00:14:21
Sue Fleishman
Of course.
00:14:22
Heather Roberts
All
00:14:22
Sue Fleishman
But he has no intention of leaving Danville Falls and she has no intention of staying once the year is up. So that is the conflict.
00:14:29
Heather Roberts
right.
00:14:30
Sue Fleishman
In addition to his crazy ex-wife, his crazy ex-mother-in-law and the crazy ex-wife's boyfriend, all of whom may or may not be creating problems to drive Tess back and out of town.
00:14:45
Veronica Adams
This sounds like a real small town, not a fictional one.
00:14:48
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:14:50
Sue Fleishman
I don't know. I grew up in Danbury, Connecticut.
00:14:53
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:14:53
Sue Fleishman
There were thousands of people. It was big comparatively speaking, but you know, I did go to college in a town that was like that big.
00:14:58
Heather Roberts
But you did get a college, it so the other connection that we have is that you went to college in Vermont. Yeah.
00:15:03
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:15:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:15:05
Sue Fleishman
So, but yeah. So anyway, so I'm having a ton of fun with it. And also the gossip machine and, you know, the local diner and all the scenes, the big scenes where the fights and everything take place in the diner and the boyfriend is like, I can't leave you alone for like, I can't let you go to the diner for lunch.
00:15:12
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:15:22
Sue Fleishman
Look what happens.
00:15:24
Veronica Adams
Ah.
00:15:24
Sue Fleishman
know, you get in fights with my ex-wife and the crazy mother and,
00:15:24
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Oh, yes.
00:15:28
Sue Fleishman
So anyway, it's it's I'm having a great time. And then there'll be two more about the other two sisters. ah One is a chef at a very fancy restaurant, a very accomplished chef.
00:15:39
Sue Fleishman
She inherits the kitchen wait corner cafe corner with a K, of course, and cafe with a K.
00:15:46
Heather Roberts
oh yeah
00:15:47
Sue Fleishman
And then the youngest is known as the tomato mama. she has from her minuscule New York City apartment kitchen, created this, you know, um huge line of gourmet food stores, of go gourmet food.
00:16:04
Sue Fleishman
And she goes back to Danville Falls and her ex-boyfriend from high school, whom she dumped, has this chain ah very upscale, fancy food purveyors, stores.
00:16:18
Sue Fleishman
And um he refuses to carry her
00:16:19
Veronica Adams
The perfect business partner.
00:16:20
Sue Fleishman
tomato sauce. she He refuses to carry her tomato sauce.
00:16:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:16:24
Sue Fleishman
And so tomato mama has to come home and live at home also.
00:16:28
Heather Roberts
Love it.
00:16:29
Sue Fleishman
So there you go.
00:16:31
Heather Roberts
I love small town romance.
00:16:31
Sue Fleishman
And they'll get back together.
00:16:33
Heather Roberts
Veronica knows that I love small town romance.
00:16:33
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:16:34
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:16:35
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:16:35
Veronica Adams
Heather. Heather is such a small town romance reader.
00:16:37
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:16:39
Veronica Adams
I like number one or number two on the list.
00:16:39
Sue Fleishman
I can tell because she came up with really good names.
00:16:39
Heather Roberts
i
00:16:42
Veronica Adams
If I had to guess.
00:16:44
Heather Roberts
Yeah. It's up there. It's very up there.
00:16:46
Veronica Adams
Oh,
00:16:46
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:16:47
Heather Roberts
I love it because the small town becomes another character, you know, and you fall in love with the town as much as you fall in love with the characters in the town.
00:16:51
Sue Fleishman
It's true.
00:16:51
Veronica Adams
Uh-huh.
00:16:57
Heather Roberts
And there's just so much, like you said, with the gossip mill that runs and just how everybody's involved in everybody's business.
00:17:01
Sue Fleishman
Oh my God.
00:17:01
Veronica Adams
ah
00:17:04
Heather Roberts
And yeah, it's just so much fun.
00:17:04
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:17:07
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:17:07
Heather Roberts
i mean, when I moved to Vermont, it was, I live in a town of 3000 people. Okay. So It is, I i know small town. and you know, very quickly you realize, oh no, some of these things are real. Like there's the corner store where people go and like, that's where all the gossip is. And, you know, my brother was a new person, a younger person purchased the corner store and my brother was working there. And like, there was a question of whether he was going to date her and not, or they were just friends. Like there was gossip going around about it.
00:17:41
Heather Roberts
And it was just like so much, you know, it's just small towns.
00:17:44
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, totally.
00:17:45
Heather Roberts
Crazy.
00:17:47
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, no, I had to laugh because I named the local dive because the middle sister and the owner, he's he's trying to rehabilitate the local dive, um but the locals don't like it and they'll meet and fall in love.
00:17:56
Heather Roberts
Oh,
00:18:01
Sue Fleishman
But um I named it the water hole because the original owner thought that watering holes sounded like farm animals and he thought water holes sounded like golf and that was classing.
00:18:10
Heather Roberts
there you go.
00:18:13
Veronica Adams
Oh.
00:18:14
Sue Fleishman
So they go to the waterhole all the time and it always sounds wrong to me when I'm typing it
00:18:17
Veronica Adams
How very New England.
00:18:20
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:18:22
Sue Fleishman
but there's a really good reason. So, and and I can't let Egbert Sullivan, the original owner of the waterhole down.
00:18:25
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:18:30
Sue Fleishman
I've got to keep the folklore going. So, you know, yep.
00:18:32
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:18:34
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we love the lore. We love it. It's so much fun. And there's just, yeah, I love that you can intersperse real things from your life into these books and just see them, like you about with your grandmother, basically being reincarnated as a character.
00:18:49
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:18:50
Heather Roberts
it's it You brought her back to life in a way. And it's so much fun to see that, you know, in the
00:18:54
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. She was a real character and a real hard ass. And it was but it's fun. She's sprinkled throughout, you know, what she would have said or done.
Incorporating Real-Life and Political Views
00:19:04
Sue Fleishman
um But ah yeah, I've had a lot of fun um thinking about people and and envisioning it because I can kind of see it.
00:19:14
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Well, so the first one is settle for more. And then the next one is I'm trying to do this off memory.
00:19:18
Sue Fleishman
That's right.
00:19:21
Heather Roberts
So don't judge me. Settle for us.
00:19:23
Sue Fleishman
I'm not.
00:19:25
Heather Roberts
And then the third one is settle the score.
00:19:28
Sue Fleishman
That's right.
00:19:28
Heather Roberts
And they are coming out here shortly. The first one comes out in October.
00:19:34
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:19:34
Heather Roberts
And so.
00:19:34
Sue Fleishman
October 16th.
00:19:34
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:19:34
Heather Roberts
Mm hmm.
00:19:36
Sue Fleishman
So I'm in the throes right now of my process. I'm about to send it off for copy editing today, but, um, with my process, I like to print it out. So I send it to the local
00:19:46
Heather Roberts
That
00:19:47
Sue Fleishman
I also live in what might be considered a little village, you know, between Burbank and Studio City. So, um and it's called Toluca Lake and there's a certain amount of small town and I'm on the homeowners associate association, which is hilarious and, and, and much and, and really kind of awesome.
00:20:05
Heather Roberts
and is
00:20:06
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:20:12
Sue Fleishman
But, um you know, I sent it off to the local FedEx and then trot down the street to pick it up and then bring it back and then use a pen and go over it that way. I find it's it's someone suggested that to me a long time ago and it and all all the time, whenever I was writing in in business, and writing speeches or doing anything like that, I always liked a piece of paper and a pen, which I know dates me.
00:20:37
Sue Fleishman
But, you know.
00:20:37
Heather Roberts
No, is why we get along. um Veronica knows. aye I am a printout queen. i love to print things out. if you go If you go and watch any of our legal case breakdown YouTube videos on YouTube, yeah, you will see all of the court cases printed out, everything highlighted.
00:21:00
Sue Fleishman
I love it.
00:21:01
Veronica Adams
Yep, she has all the different filings.
00:21:02
Sue Fleishman
Oh, I'm going to go and do that. I love that stuff. I'm always very interested in that.
00:21:05
Veronica Adams
huh. Yeah.
00:21:07
Heather Roberts
Yeah, yeah, we started doing that because it was just, well, it leans into our strengths. We're both attorneys.
00:21:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:13
Heather Roberts
And, you know, obviously we are in the publishing industry.
00:21:14
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:21:17
Heather Roberts
So we felt that it was a lovely crossover. And we didn't really feel like or see anybody else doing that type of level breakdown, you know, from a legal perspective.
00:21:24
Sue Fleishman
Sure.
00:21:24
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:21:27
Heather Roberts
What do these things mean?
00:21:28
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:21:29
Heather Roberts
And all of that.
00:21:29
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. And so much of what I focused on back in my other life was lot was around copyright and a lot around, you know, intellectual property and the protection of it and all of that.
00:21:35
Veronica Adams
Oh yeah. Of course.
00:21:40
Sue Fleishman
So, um, that was really at the height of, uh, the electronic freedom foundation and a whole bunch of other, you know, organizations that were trying to erode copyright.
00:21:48
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:21:53
Sue Fleishman
So, um, And my former boss at Warner was an attorney by trade. And so he loved to get into things like that.
00:22:04
Heather Roberts
Well, this is your friendly mind reminder to those who are listening. You have not copyrighted your books yet. Make sure you go and do that. Copyright your books. um when you are publishing them, it is so important, especially for situations that we're now seeing with, for example, the anthropic lawsuit, that some of the qualifiers to be eligible for even to receive a settlement is that you have to have copywritten your books.
00:22:31
Heather Roberts
You have to have filed the copyright.
00:22:31
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:22:33
Heather Roberts
um So that is one reason of many why you should file.
00:22:38
Veronica Adams
yes
00:22:38
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:22:39
Heather Roberts
But yeah,
00:22:40
Sue Fleishman
And that's a hot topic here right now, you know, from my my other community.
00:22:42
Heather Roberts
Is it really out in LA?
00:22:45
Sue Fleishman
Oh yeah. Actors, writers, everyone, AI and what it's, how their, yeah, how their work is being used, their likenesses, everything.
00:22:52
Veronica Adams
Fair use and yeah. Yeah.
00:22:58
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:22:58
Sue Fleishman
I mean, it's really, ah Well, this is the old fashioned me speaking. It's a little terrifying, but.
00:23:05
Heather Roberts
No, I mean, it it definitely is.
00:23:05
Sue Fleishman
you know
00:23:07
Heather Roberts
I mean, you want to make sure that you're being compensated if your likeness is being used. I would think in film yeah especially that there's so much opening um for that to to just be snatched and grabbed and used however a film studio wants to.
00:23:12
Sue Fleishman
Exactly.
00:23:17
Veronica Adams
yeah yeah
00:23:23
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. Well, even how they trained this whole, I mean, all of that.
00:23:27
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:23:28
Sue Fleishman
what they've used for training. And that's what the anthra, isn't that what and is at the core of of the case?
00:23:32
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:23:33
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:23:35
Heather Roberts
And ah something to think about, too, I mean, if you if you haven't copywritten your if like you haven't filed for copyright, I'll put it that way.
00:23:35
Sue Fleishman
Anyway.
00:23:42
Heather Roberts
That's what we're talking about here. Filing with the United States government for under in the copyright office. If you have not done that um for that might take you out of this potential lawsuit. But don't forget, this isn't the only one.
00:23:55
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:23:55
Heather Roberts
Well, you want to go and file your copyrights because you that might make you eligible for the next one.
00:23:56
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:24:01
Heather Roberts
From what I've been hearing, I sit on the AI committee with the American Association of a Literary Agents. And um what I was hearing from those meetings is that this might actually be a small settlement ah compared to, you know, if you look at the other juggernauts where the ah lawsuits are pending with Google, with Meta,
00:24:10
Sue Fleishman
one
00:24:25
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:24:26
Heather Roberts
Uh, so with open AI, you know, those lawsuits are still pending that that's still happening. And Anthropic is a smaller company comparative to those.
00:24:35
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:24:36
Heather Roberts
So yeah, you're, you're friendly warning to go out and get your ducks in a row, uh, to make sure that you can get compensated if that happens.
00:24:38
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:24:43
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:24:45
Sue Fleishman
Absolutely. Yep.
00:24:49
Heather Roberts
But there's so much in the media these days, media industry with books, with TV, and and all of that. That's, you know, a live wire, it seems.
00:25:00
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:25:01
Heather Roberts
how How do you handle, do you think about that when you're writing your books? Or do you just write what you want to write? And that's it?
00:25:10
Sue Fleishman
Um, I think about a lot of things when I'm writing, um, You know, the current climate in this country is chilling.
00:25:18
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:25:19
Sue Fleishman
It's reminding me of other bad periods of history and um on so many levels. And ah I have to say that that, you know, it affects how you think about things. i I can't I don't live in a bubble and I'm surrounded by by the companies that at the moment I think are are
00:25:37
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:25:44
Sue Fleishman
cowardly and not standing up. And, you know, bully is one thing, but fascist is another. um And ah just the recent events have been extremely disturbing to me, ah especially around the First Amendment.
00:26:03
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:26:03
Sue Fleishman
um And also,
00:26:07
Sue Fleishman
well, let's just put it this way. Every asshole in my book drives a Tesla.
00:26:12
Veronica Adams
Oh.
00:26:14
Heather Roberts
um Do they really? I don't think I've ever noticed that before. Yeah.
00:26:23
Heather Roberts
la
00:26:24
Veronica Adams
oh I love it. Writing your principles and your beliefs into your art.
00:26:28
Sue Fleishman
Well, you know,
00:26:28
Veronica Adams
But that art, art is political and books are art.
00:26:29
Sue Fleishman
yeah
00:26:32
Veronica Adams
So here we are.
00:26:34
Sue Fleishman
I don't see how you separate it.
00:26:35
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:26:35
Sue Fleishman
And, you know, look, I was raised as a good old fashioned democratic liberal. and And I, by God, am not going to give that up now.
00:26:48
Sue Fleishman
And
00:26:48
Heather Roberts
Oh,
00:26:48
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:49
Sue Fleishman
either are my friends and I am so disturbed that, I mean, this is not an answer, but the other day on Sunday, I still get newspapers at home.
00:27:00
Sue Fleishman
Please don't tell anyone, but I do.
00:27:01
Heather Roberts
I love that. I love that. Don't tell anyone. Yeah.
00:27:05
Sue Fleishman
Um, I just threw them in the, I took out the crossword puzzles, which is my, I'm obsessed with crossword puzzles, but anyway, it took those out and then I threw them in the trash, uh, recycling, sorry.
00:27:15
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:27:17
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:27:17
Sue Fleishman
And, um, i I put them away because i ah I couldn't, I just couldn't take it. And I almost did it yesterday and poor Jimmy Kimmel's face is on the front page of the New York times right now, sort of looking over at me on my table.
00:27:34
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:35
Sue Fleishman
And, um, you know, i just don't know what to make of it. And yesterday was my son's 28th birthday. The great news about that is that we started the day before to have a discussion about what had happened with Jimmy Kimmel.
00:27:49
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:27:49
Sue Fleishman
And then last night we went out with one of my dearest friends who's like an uncle to him, ah who, you know, we just both, we all sort of sit there and look at each other like, where are we?
00:28:01
Sue Fleishman
What is this?
00:28:02
Veronica Adams
McCarthyism, the 1950s are back.
00:28:02
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:28:03
Sue Fleishman
Yes!
00:28:04
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:28:05
Sue Fleishman
Hitler!
00:28:06
Veronica Adams
Yes, yeah.
00:28:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's crazy. i do want say though, I feel like, um, my husband's been saying this a lot and I don't think that he'll be mad that I'm bringing this up on a open podcast, but, um,
00:28:11
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:28:19
Sue Fleishman
yeah
00:28:20
Heather Roberts
you now and
00:28:21
Veronica Adams
To call him and get him to come on camera and say it himself.
00:28:21
Heather Roberts
know
00:28:23
Sue Fleishman
That's right.
00:28:23
Heather Roberts
is, that's a different podcast.
00:28:23
Veronica Adams
And is for sure.
00:28:26
Heather Roberts
He is very, very good.
00:28:29
Veronica Adams
and it is for sure
00:28:29
Sue Fleishman
It always is.
00:28:31
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And yeah, we we've talked about doing a podcast together, but no, he, he talks about how he's like, you know, I don't think we can compare Trump to Hitler anymore. I don't, he's like, maybe 2016 we could.
00:28:43
Heather Roberts
um But I think it's turned, he thinks it's turned into something different now. He thinks,
00:28:49
Sue Fleishman
Different or bigger?
00:28:50
Heather Roberts
Like bigger. He thinks it's it it's not right to compare him to Hitler anymore because it's a it did different animal. um Not that he's saying he's better.
00:28:59
Sue Fleishman
ah
00:29:00
Heather Roberts
that like
00:29:01
Sue Fleishman
No, no, no, no. I understand.
00:29:02
Heather Roberts
It's just...
00:29:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:03
Sue Fleishman
i mean, there's probably the truth to that.
00:29:04
Heather Roberts
it's almost doing a disservice to compare him to Hitler because, um, of some of the, the differentiations of of what he's done in that almost on in certain ways that he's worse.
00:29:16
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:29:17
Heather Roberts
Um, so he's like, I don't, I don't think we can in 2025 in good faith, call him Hitler, you know?
00:29:24
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:29:25
Heather Roberts
And I,
00:29:25
Sue Fleishman
I think that that's actually a really um smart and insightful
00:29:32
Heather Roberts
he He is very smart and insightful.
00:29:32
Sue Fleishman
ah statement.
00:29:34
Heather Roberts
ah
00:29:35
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:29:36
Heather Roberts
yeah I'll make him listen to this podcast later just for that.
00:29:37
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yeah.
00:29:38
Sue Fleishman
But, but, but I mean, but you know, i like, I think that that's true because I think this is even worse on so many levels. And I just laugh.
00:29:48
Sue Fleishman
I mean, I laugh and then it's so not funny, but at how,
00:29:51
Heather Roberts
Right. Well, you have to laugh or you'll cry. i mean.
00:29:54
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, but in how, like, he's he's like, they made so much fun of me. You know, and it's like, yeah.
00:30:03
Heather Roberts
Well, and we worry about it with romance books.
00:30:05
Sue Fleishman
We're allowed.
00:30:06
Heather Roberts
I mean, we worry about it with censorship coming to romance books.
00:30:09
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:30:09
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:30:10
Heather Roberts
And Veronica and I have been, you know, probably for a year now telling people to stop calling all romance books smut because we're fearful that it's going to be colored across the everybody, right?
00:30:11
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:30:25
Heather Roberts
Like, oh, all romance books are smut and then therefore they are inherently dangerous and inherently dangerous.
00:30:26
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:30:31
Veronica Adams
pornographic and therefore subject to increased censorship.
00:30:32
Heather Roberts
pornographic and right.
00:30:35
Veronica Adams
Like they aren't already subject to censorship.
00:30:38
Sue Fleishman
Well, that's really horrifying.
00:30:38
Veronica Adams
So. yeah.
00:30:39
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:30:39
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:30:41
Heather Roberts
And so that that's a big concern. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibilities.
00:30:43
Sue Fleishman
Sure.
00:30:45
Heather Roberts
When we first were talking about it, people were like, oh, well, you know, that's never
Censorship and Importance of Romance Novels
00:30:50
Heather Roberts
going to happen. But if we've said that about other things before that have happened.
00:30:55
Sue Fleishman
Yes. Yes.
00:30:57
Heather Roberts
So I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. We've seen some bills come up in different states, and we know that's how they test ideas that specifically target romance novels.
00:31:06
Sue Fleishman
Yes, course.
00:31:09
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:31:10
Heather Roberts
So, you know, it is a big concern. And I think as a romance author, that's something you consider at every stage of your career, for sure.
00:31:17
Sue Fleishman
Absolutely.
00:31:18
Heather Roberts
I mean, it's your future livelihood. It's you're trying to build a ah brand and this it could be undercut from out of you, you know, your knees are off.
00:31:20
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:31:23
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:31:26
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:31:27
Heather Roberts
So it's absolutely.
00:31:29
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. It's a lot. Um, I think sometimes it's also why I want to run screaming from the room because, or I put the newspapers in the recycling. Um, but I also know, you know, you can't live like that.
00:31:37
Heather Roberts
You're right.
00:31:41
Sue Fleishman
So I try to find some sort of a balance, um, if it's possible, but right now we're not living in balanced times. And so, um, so I just sort of try to,
00:31:48
Veronica Adams
no
00:31:49
Heather Roberts
I do.
00:31:54
Sue Fleishman
um Try to find joy where you can um and try to try to be happy and try to be grateful.
00:32:06
Sue Fleishman
um You know, and and I am no Mother Teresa, so.
00:32:11
Heather Roberts
i did
00:32:11
Sue Fleishman
But, you know.
00:32:13
Heather Roberts
I do find that if I go too long without reading, because it's so funny because with this job, you would think, oh, Heather, you get to read all the time. Not true.
00:32:24
Heather Roberts
um Spoiler alert.
00:32:28
Veronica Adams
from your lips to God's ears.
00:32:28
Heather Roberts
ah just, yeah, not true. And I do find that if I don't, especially for fun, I might be reading something, but it's for work, which is not the same things in your brain.
00:32:37
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes. Uh-huh.
00:32:40
Heather Roberts
Your brain is still thinking it's different.
00:32:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:32:43
Heather Roberts
Um, so yeah, I went, if I go too long without reading for fun, i start to get very agitated.
00:32:47
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:32:49
Heather Roberts
Like I need that sort of escapism. I need the reset.
00:32:52
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:32:53
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:32:54
Heather Roberts
Um, yeah. Yeah.
00:32:55
Sue Fleishman
My friends and I, we've been laughing because um I have been, I've been watching like season 8,000 of Top Chef. um And, and then at the same time reading, I read for pleasure every night.
00:33:05
Veronica Adams
Perfect.
00:33:09
Sue Fleishman
I make sure I do. And, um and so I am, you know, very, very I'm reading a Jennifer Scully series right now and, uh, and, uh, it's re they're really good.
00:33:21
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:33:24
Sue Fleishman
And, and they're also, sometimes she makes me laugh out loud. She is so funny and the way she's very dry.
00:33:29
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:33:31
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:33:31
Sue Fleishman
and And so I'm laughing out loud. I'm watching people make things I could never make ever. And, you know, and sort of going, okay, this is fine.
00:33:37
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:33:41
Sue Fleishman
Food and romance. Like I can do this. Yay.
00:33:45
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:33:45
Sue Fleishman
but But that's the kind of cocoon I'm putting myself in. Because every morning the papers are on my doorstep and every morning I pick them up and go,
00:33:53
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:33:56
Sue Fleishman
ah
00:33:56
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Right.
00:33:57
Veronica Adams
Yeah. But you still got to protect that creative energy so that you can keep writing.
00:34:02
Sue Fleishman
Yes, absolutely.
00:34:03
Veronica Adams
i mean, there has to be some way for you to shield yourself in peace from everything that's on fire outside so so that you can also duke pursue your art, of course, but also help other people have the same escape that you're getting from Jennifer and from Top Chef, right?
00:34:11
Sue Fleishman
Yep, it's true.
00:34:11
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:34:21
Sue Fleishman
Right, right?
00:34:21
Veronica Adams
I mean, like you are... Yeah, growing that readership and giving people the same escapism and hope and relaxation and revitalization.
00:34:24
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:34:28
Sue Fleishman
Hopefully, yeah. Yeah, just the pleasure of things working out.
00:34:32
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:34:34
Sue Fleishman
You know, there's something about a happily ever after because life so rarely provides it.
00:34:37
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:34:41
Sue Fleishman
But to be able to do it and have it, um to me, that's also part of what brings a lot of joy is having it all work out.
00:34:48
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:34:51
Heather Roberts
Well, that it's so important too, because you see a lot of authors burn out if they don't take care of their own mental health and they don't protect their peace.
00:34:56
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yeah.
00:35:00
Heather Roberts
So I think it's incredibly important as an author in their your first year to learn those lessons and to set up systems where you are protecting your peace there.
00:35:09
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:35:10
Sue Fleishman
Yeah, I do a lot of walking in my neighborhood um and that also helps because, you know, you start to fantasize about who lives in that house and what does that mean?
00:35:11
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:35:21
Sue Fleishman
And, oh, what's that? Or, oh, that's a cool street. I should keep that streetscape in mind or, you know, there's there's a lot that comes from it.
00:35:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:35:32
Sue Fleishman
And then sometimes I walk with friends and that's always hilarious because I have one friend who walks so slowly that I can drink a cup of coffee while we walk.
00:35:43
Veronica Adams
That is a stroll.
00:35:44
Sue Fleishman
It is a stroll.
00:35:46
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:35:46
Veronica Adams
mean,
00:35:46
Sue Fleishman
And my we laugh I laugh so hard. I'm like, well, I just came back from two hours with Tim.
00:35:52
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:35:53
Sue Fleishman
And I don't think we went very far, but we spent a lot of time together.
00:35:55
Heather Roberts
Go 0.5 miles in
00:35:58
Sue Fleishman
Yippee.
00:35:59
Heather Roberts
go point five miles in two hours.
00:35:59
Sue Fleishman
So.
00:36:01
Veronica Adams
ah Right?
00:36:02
Sue Fleishman
Yes. Yes.
00:36:03
Veronica Adams
Well, but so that leads into like, what is your process at this point? Like from, from where you started when you first decided you wanted to transition and, you know, have a business writing and self-publishing to what you do today with this new series as you're
Transition in Writing Style
00:36:19
Veronica Adams
writing those books.
00:36:19
Veronica Adams
I mean, are you pantser or plotter? How do the ideas come to you?
00:36:24
Sue Fleishman
I got asked that question.
00:36:24
Veronica Adams
what Awesome.
00:36:25
Sue Fleishman
i and I'm a pantser, but I'm, I'm, I have a bit of a plotter. So I'm a plot pants.
00:36:31
Veronica Adams
Okay. She's a hybrid.
00:36:34
Heather Roberts
near proximity.
00:36:35
Sue Fleishman
I'm sort of a hybrid. Like when we were doing the small town stuff, I, I sort of ah it really helped me. i wrote a note to Heather outlining how I saw each book and, and how, and what would happen and what their professions would be, what their love interests would be.
00:36:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:36:54
Sue Fleishman
you know, what um challenges they'd have to overcome, all of that stuff.
00:36:58
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:37:00
Sue Fleishman
When I was writing the first book in the um in the ah Timeless Love series, ah Stay With Me, a character emerged, a best friend emerged, who was the mix of the woman I was telling you about, The Grub Street,
00:37:16
Sue Fleishman
dear friend, um my ah another college classmate who I'm still very, the three of us are still very, very close.
00:37:17
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Nice.
00:37:25
Sue Fleishman
Her mom, who was like a ballsy chick from Queens and um my sister who can be like chop chop, let's go.
00:37:36
Sue Fleishman
And, um and so she emerged. And then the second book was based on her and her love interest. And her love interest is based on someone i was very madly in love with that never could be.
00:37:53
Sue Fleishman
And so, but then I was able to have it happen and have them be together. And that fulfilled something inside of me.
00:38:01
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:38:01
Sue Fleishman
And then the next one came from you know, where lived, I used to live, not in this, I used to live up in the hills behind Universal and the hills are really narrow.
00:38:13
Sue Fleishman
The streets are really, the roads are really narrow. I'm sure you guys have you know this, but hairpin turns and craziness.
00:38:15
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:38:19
Sue Fleishman
But on our particular stretch, we, the neighbors all became really close and the houses are very close together. So that led to a whole other thing. And then the fourth book, um, there was, uh,
00:38:33
Sue Fleishman
ah a dog, my, my yoga teacher, who's my dear friend, her dog, Alfie and Alfie sort of became the star of the show. So, but they all emerged like one led to another led to another without a whole lot of strategy or thought.
00:38:49
Sue Fleishman
It was like, Oh, okay.
00:38:49
Veronica Adams
The inspiration just builds on itself over time.
00:38:51
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:38:51
Sue Fleishman
Yeah.
00:38:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:38:52
Sue Fleishman
Whereas I feel like this one, ah this series is more planned or that I have a much clearer idea of
00:39:00
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:39:01
Sue Fleishman
a beginning, a middle and an end. Sorry, that was very long winded.
00:39:04
Heather Roberts
No, that makes total sense, though.
00:39:04
Veronica Adams
No, it's perfect.
00:39:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah. No, that's great.
00:39:07
Sue Fleishman
So, you know, so anyway, so who knows what the next thing will be, but um at least for the for the next year um or so,
00:39:11
Veronica Adams
Well, right.
00:39:16
Sue Fleishman
ah i i i have I sort of feel like I have a bit of a blueprint and I don't normally, I haven't in the past kind of followed that.
00:39:21
Veronica Adams
Awesome.
00:39:27
Heather Roberts
it's true yeah because we talk and I'd be like so what's the next book and you're like I don't know and I'm like all right
00:39:35
Sue Fleishman
I just put out one. I can't think. I have to go to my local wine bar.
00:39:41
Heather Roberts
right right and you know me I'm always like let's put the whole series up for pre-order and like let's plan everything out
00:39:42
Sue Fleishman
I'm late.
00:39:47
Sue Fleishman
Exactly. I'm like, no, wait, I'm scared.
00:39:51
Heather Roberts
You're
00:39:52
Veronica Adams
Heather cracking the whip behind the scenes.
00:39:54
Sue Fleishman
Oh my God.
00:39:55
Heather Roberts
making me sound terrifying.
00:39:55
Sue Fleishman
Oh, oh, please. Let me tell you. She's quite formidable when she wants to be.
00:39:59
Heather Roberts
Oh
00:40:00
Sue Fleishman
I'm like, Heather, I have a meeting with Heather. I have to write.
00:40:04
Heather Roberts
my God. Yes. Yes. Yes. terrifying oh my god
00:40:07
Sue Fleishman
No, you're wonderful. I love you. But, but you know, you know how much I love you. It's just, it's just, it's good.
00:40:12
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:40:13
Sue Fleishman
have to have it. I'm a procrastinator.
00:40:16
Veronica Adams
Mmm.
00:40:16
Heather Roberts
yeah We keep you on track,
00:40:17
Veronica Adams
Okay. Yeah.
00:40:19
Heather Roberts
It's important. Yes.
00:40:20
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:40:20
Sue Fleishman
Yeah. And if I don't have that, then I'm very good with deadlines, including terrifying deadlines.
00:40:26
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:40:29
Sue Fleishman
ah there That's kind of what i I need. I really do. And I've always been that way. I think the only time I wasn't like that and I shocked myself was my senior year in college. I wrote a thesis and I actually did it, you know, did it pretty methodically, but that was a very different kind of writing.
00:40:50
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:40:51
Heather Roberts
Yeah, that makes total sense.
00:40:53
Sue Fleishman
You know, I wasn't waking up in the middle of the night and going, you're not dropping enough clues early enough on.
00:41:00
Heather Roberts
So you would say, so it's helpful to have somebody who is providing you with structure.
00:41:00
Sue Fleishman
You need to go back.
00:41:04
Sue Fleishman
Yes. Yes.
00:41:06
Heather Roberts
That's a nicer way of saying cracking wood.
00:41:08
Sue Fleishman
Yes. No, because I used to to meet with my thesis advisor every week or every two weeks.
00:41:11
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:41:11
Veronica Adams
yes
00:41:13
Sue Fleishman
And I was scared of her.
00:41:15
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:41:18
Heather Roberts
I am i am nothing.
00:41:18
Sue Fleishman
I'm not scared of you, Heather.
00:41:19
Heather Roberts
if not lovely Yeah, I'm glad.
00:41:20
Sue Fleishman
Heather.
00:41:21
Heather Roberts
I'm glad. Now, and you know, I will never bite your head off if you, you know.
00:41:23
Sue Fleishman
and
00:41:25
Sue Fleishman
No, I know that. You've always been very patient.
00:41:28
Heather Roberts
Yes. Yes. Very patient. Listen, we've we've seen a thing or two our time.
00:41:33
Sue Fleishman
Oh, I bet you have.
00:41:34
Heather Roberts
So there's pretty much nothing you could say that would surprise me, ah which is good.
00:41:38
Sue Fleishman
i know.
00:41:41
Heather Roberts
But, you know, we deal with things as they come.
00:41:42
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:41:46
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:41:46
Heather Roberts
mean, Amazon's going to be Amazon. Yeah.
00:41:49
Veronica Adams
Oh, Lord.
00:41:49
Sue Fleishman
Oh, God.
00:41:50
Heather Roberts
yeah Yeah, they far as far far as they come.
00:41:50
Sue Fleishman
Oh, wait. I think that's scarier. I think they're far scarier on so many levels. on many levels.
00:41:55
Heather Roberts
Well, you recently switched from you being wide to going into KU. What has your thoughts been on that? do you have any thoughts on that? do you find that better worse?
00:42:07
Sue Fleishman
i don't I can't see if there's much of a difference or i that's not fair.
00:42:11
Heather Roberts
ah
00:42:13
Sue Fleishman
I know there is because the pages are being read and there's some income that comes from that.
00:42:17
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:42:19
Sue Fleishman
So I appreciate that.
00:42:21
Sue Fleishman
um And I do think that that's better than some of the other places I was when, you know, you're getting nothing. So something is far better than nothing.
00:42:21
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:42:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:42:29
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:31
Sue Fleishman
um So i I don't think, I think it's too soon to to say whether or not it's um it's the right or wrong thing.
00:42:35
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:42:40
Sue Fleishman
And I just want to give it much more of a chance. um I'm very impatient. Of course, just like everyone, I want to be, you know, selling millions and millions of copies.
00:42:51
Sue Fleishman
But um I also know that's not to happen. And um so I just, you know, I think it's I think the strategy is good.
00:43:00
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:43:00
Sue Fleishman
I really do. i think it's a.
00:43:01
Heather Roberts
Well, I think it's and your newsletter is growing, which is exciting.
00:43:04
Sue Fleishman
Yes, yes.
00:43:06
Heather Roberts
one thing that we recently implemented, because listen, you were writing and you were writing these these first four books and that was your focus. I mean, this was all brand new to you.
00:43:16
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:43:17
Heather Roberts
And so you wanted to get that series out.
00:43:18
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:43:19
Heather Roberts
And so here I am saying, hey, you need to write something else as a reader lore so that we could put it in your newsletter to get people to sign up to your newsletter. And and she's like, when am I going to do that?
00:43:32
Heather Roberts
ah like, don't know, find some time. But you eventually did. you found that.
00:43:37
Sue Fleishman
I did.
00:43:37
Heather Roberts
And then we we implemented that somewhat recently. And that's really helped to expand ah your newsletter. So i feel like that's there.
00:43:45
Sue Fleishman
I'll do it again.
00:43:46
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:43:47
Sue Fleishman
I'll do it again for Danville Falls. i'll I'll tell a funny story or maybe, you know, find a town pet or do something like that.
00:43:55
Veronica Adams
Perfect.
00:43:55
Heather Roberts
No, and it's great. And I mean, you can have one that stays the same, that brings people into your newsletter, or you can change it out for different books. um I have someone that I work with who this is like, she she loves them.
00:44:08
Heather Roberts
So she uses bonus scenes and deleted scenes, puts those at the end of her book and for every single book, and then has those, they're all separate and they come into separate segments into her newsletter.
00:44:23
Sue Fleishman
Oh, cool.
00:44:23
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And then she knows like where the person came from you know organically.
00:44:26
Sue Fleishman
That's cool.
00:44:30
Heather Roberts
And she can then remarket to them on her newsletter a lot better in the future if she has another book with the same tropes,
00:44:31
Sue Fleishman
I think I just lost you guys.
Audience Engagement Strategies
00:44:37
Heather Roberts
for example, or um if she's writing mail mail and it's a mail mail book in the future.
00:44:37
Sue Fleishman
Shoot.
00:44:42
Heather Roberts
So there's a lot of flexibility you can do with the reader lores. I'm not sure if Campbell is still with us or not. um But yeah, it' I love a good reader lore and I was thrilled to see the explosion um of the newsletter once we put that reader lore in place.
00:45:00
Heather Roberts
I thought that that was really great.
00:45:01
Veronica Adams
Yes, it's awesome how well those work once you get them done. It's just sitting down and having the content to use for them.
00:45:07
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:45:07
Sue Fleishman
Great.
00:45:08
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:45:08
Heather Roberts
and And my point being, like, as i was saying, we did this sort of in stages as a new newer author because you can't do everything right away.
00:45:17
Heather Roberts
it's It's practically impossible
00:45:17
Sue Fleishman
Right.
00:45:19
Heather Roberts
you have to build the foundation and then start you know building up.
00:45:21
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:45:23
Heather Roberts
And the foundation here is the books, right? You need the products.
00:45:25
Sue Fleishman
Yes.
00:45:26
Heather Roberts
ah
00:45:27
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:45:27
Heather Roberts
So it's really interesting how you know you can you can do that as an author. What would you say you have learned the most from from writing this past year?
00:45:34
Sue Fleishman
Absolutely.
00:45:42
Heather Roberts
know a very heavy question.
00:45:46
Sue Fleishman
Um, I think I've learned what I'm capable of. I think I, I think what that's done is given me a lot more confidence.
00:45:56
Sue Fleishman
And i I think I didn't think I could do it when I started out and, and I've been able to prove to myself that I can.
00:46:10
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:10
Sue Fleishman
Um, and, and that means a lot because I, um, I'm not always the most confident person and it's helped me a lot with that.
00:46:17
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:46:21
Sue Fleishman
The other thing that I've learned that I love is that you can bring parts of your real life into your books and you can work through a lot of things. And that has also helped bring some real peace and perspective.
00:46:38
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:46:38
Sue Fleishman
And I didn't expect that to be a benefit, but I feel like that is an added benefit. And I've learned a lot as a result.
00:46:45
Heather Roberts
It's like therapy.
00:46:47
Sue Fleishman
Yes, it sure is.
00:46:47
Heather Roberts
that's not
00:46:48
Veronica Adams
absolutely yeah so if if you could give yourself advice a year ago or give advice to someone who hasn't actually started the journey but is thinking about it someone who's where you were last year what what's something anything one thing the top thing maybe that you would tell them i love that yeah
00:46:51
Heather Roberts
Oh, I love that.
00:47:10
Sue Fleishman
Don't give up. Have faith in yourself. Keep at it. Keep writing.
00:47:16
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:47:16
Veronica Adams
Awesome.
00:47:17
Sue Fleishman
Just write, write every day and just keep doing it because it will come ah even when you're frustrated.
00:47:18
Veronica Adams
Getting the words down. Yeah.
00:47:27
Sue Fleishman
Eventually it will come. It may come again, as I said, not to overemphasize this in the middle of the night. It could come could come when you're out on a walk. It could come when you're driving or you're in traffic, which as everyone knows in Los Angeles is the bane of everyone's existence and and and a constant that never goes away.
00:47:37
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:47:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:47:42
Heather Roberts
All the time.
00:47:43
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:47:47
Sue Fleishman
Um, so, you know, the
Reflection and Closing
00:47:50
Sue Fleishman
you don't know when the inspiration or what will come, but I, I would just say, don't give up. There were times when I was so tired or I thought, oh, this is not, this is bad.
00:48:00
Sue Fleishman
This is terrible. What am I doing? Why am I doing this? But I'm glad I stuck to it.
00:48:06
Veronica Adams
Awesome.
00:48:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah, I'm glad you did too.
00:48:07
Veronica Adams
I love that.
00:48:09
Heather Roberts
it's now It's been an absolute pleasure to work with you and it's been really fun to see your wins and and to be there and to see the success and see as see how you're growing.
00:48:16
Sue Fleishman
Thank you.
00:48:20
Heather Roberts
thank
00:48:20
Sue Fleishman
Thank you. i can't thank you enough. And um it you have been so wonderful and rock and steady and great and encouraging and all the things that a writer needs.
00:48:34
Sue Fleishman
So I adore you and I thank you so much.
00:48:35
Heather Roberts
you.
00:48:37
Sue Fleishman
And Veronica, I'm thrilled to see you. And I hope I get to see and interact with you much more in the in the coming years so
00:48:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:48:46
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:48:48
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we need to do more. We've been, we've talked and we've done it a little bit, but we need to do more firm wide things.
00:48:55
Veronica Adams
Yes, like cross-pollination and collabs. we
00:48:58
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:49:00
Veronica Adams
without any sort of organic, well it was organic, without any sort of planning, we just sort of have like a yours, mine and ours kind of situation. And we need to shake the tree a little bit and get our authors to interact with each other and do things with each other.
00:49:08
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:49:14
Veronica Adams
And yeah.
00:49:14
Heather Roberts
Can we do it?
00:49:15
Sue Fleishman
i would I would love that.
00:49:16
Sue Fleishman
I really would.
00:49:16
Heather Roberts
We do have an author group that everybody is in.
00:49:20
Heather Roberts
So it's not like we're separated, but I do feel a lot of times that we don't, we don't do enough.
00:49:20
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:49:21
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:49:25
Veronica Adams
Some people are more enthusiastic about that than others.
00:49:28
Heather Roberts
Yeah, some are, but you know what? That's fine. Everybody does what they want on their own and not mandatory.
00:49:32
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:49:33
Sue Fleishman
Yep.
00:49:34
Heather Roberts
um But no, I do want to do more, you know, quarterly events where we have everybody together and do more meetings.
00:49:39
Veronica Adams
Awesome. Yeah.
00:49:41
Heather Roberts
So something that I'm,
00:49:41
Sue Fleishman
that That would be so great.
00:49:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah, it's something I'm trying to plan out for the next year to bring in speakers and stuff.
00:49:46
Sue Fleishman
Cool.
00:49:47
Heather Roberts
And I think that that'd be really fun. and
00:49:50
Sue Fleishman
Great.
00:49:50
Heather Roberts
So hopefully you'll see Veronica more the coming year.
00:49:52
Veronica Adams
Yes, it'll be great.
00:49:53
Sue Fleishman
yea
00:49:55
Heather Roberts
But otherwise, you can always check us out on YouTube with our beautiful faces with For Book's Sake.
00:49:55
Sue Fleishman
That'd be great.
00:49:59
Sue Fleishman
That's right. I will. Yep.
00:50:03
Heather Roberts
And yeah, I think that that I think we'll wrap up here. It's been an absolutely wonderful episode.
00:50:07
Veronica Adams
Awesome.
00:50:09
Heather Roberts
Thank you so much for joining us, Campbell.
00:50:10
Sue Fleishman
Thank you.
00:50:11
Veronica Adams
Yes, thank you.
00:50:12
Sue Fleishman
Thank you for having me.
00:50:12
Heather Roberts
well and yes Go and follow her on all of her socials.
00:50:17
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:50:17
Heather Roberts
Check out her website. She is Kindle Unlimited. You can go and binge her books and read for free with Kindle Unlimited, the Timeless Love series, and then make sure you pre-order the Begin Again series with Settle for More.
00:50:32
Heather Roberts
So we will see you all next time.