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S2 Ep: 40 Reading is Political
23 Plays5 months ago
Heather and Veronica take off the guardrails and discuss the recent presidential election and how it will affect the romance industry. Listen to this episode if you want to know how you can prepare and to feel validated in your thoughts and concerns.
A podcast from 1852 Media.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro Music Mishap
00:00:02
Heather Roberts
I pressed the button.
00:00:05
Heather Roberts
I swear to God, I did. All right, we're not getting intro music today, apparently.
00:00:10
Veronica Adams
That's wild because I heard every note.
00:00:13
Heather Roberts
Did you seriously?
00:00:14
Veronica Adams
Yeah, I heard every note.
00:00:17
Heather Roberts
Did it end? Are you shitting me?
00:00:21
Veronica Adams
I am not shitting you. The intro music was playing for me.
00:00:26
Heather Roberts
Sorry for interrupting the intro music, my friends, but it wasn't playing on my hand. Welcome to for the book's sake.
00:00:32
Veronica Adams
Oh, God bless.
00:00:33
Heather Roberts
This is how today's going to go. This is how today's gonna go.
Authors and Political Changes
00:00:40
Veronica Adams
Oh.
00:00:40
Heather Roberts
I'm Hannah Roberts.
00:00:41
Veronica Adams
And I am Veronica Adams. I am overwhelmed with emotion and everything is coming out laughter today. Pardon my hyenas.
00:00:50
Heather Roberts
it's It's been a week. um It is it' Friday, November 8th, a time of recording.
00:00:52
Veronica Adams
Oh, hasn't it though?
00:00:58
Heather Roberts
And things are falling apart. oh
00:01:03
Veronica Adams
That depends on who you are. I think for some people, things have fallen together, beautifully even.
00:01:09
Heather Roberts
well
00:01:09
Veronica Adams
i saw I saw a list of authors on TikTok who are probably very happy right now. You should go look up those videos and make informed decisions about who you're reading these days.
00:01:15
Heather Roberts
Yeah, and I hope that they ah I hope they get everything that they wanted.
00:01:21
Veronica Adams
Right?
00:01:22
Heather Roberts
I do.
00:01:22
Veronica Adams
um I mean, no know genuinely.
Books and Political Nature
00:01:24
Veronica Adams
And I feel the same way. It's going to be difficult for all of us.
00:01:28
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:01:28
Veronica Adams
And um there's a lesson here to be learned. And I hope that the people who need to learn it learn it.
00:01:34
Heather Roberts
Absolutely. I mean, and people act like when you say things like that, that you're being like mean or vindictive.
00:01:35
Veronica Adams
So.
00:01:40
Veronica Adams
No.
00:01:41
Heather Roberts
Explain to me how we're being mean and vindictive when we're saying, I hope that you get everything that you want.
00:01:45
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:01:46
Heather Roberts
Because we know, here's the thing though, you you obviously have a kernel of understanding that we know that things aren't going to turn around, turn out how you think they're going to turn out.
00:01:58
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:01:59
Heather Roberts
So you should you should look internally and see why you're feeling that way. Because you know there's nothing that we can do now.
00:02:04
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:02:07
Heather Roberts
We've done what we can do.
00:02:09
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:02:09
Heather Roberts
um The election process has happened. A decision was made. And we have to live with it just like you have to live with it. And we hope that it's everything that you hoped it would be, but, you know.
00:02:19
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:02:23
Veronica Adams
Yes. Now let's maybe back up for one second and say that we've decided to maybe take the filter down today because in light of the election and the election results, um we can no longer ignore the fact that books are political, reading is political.
00:02:27
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:02:31
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:02:43
Heather Roberts
And not that we ever ignored it, but we never talked about it blatantly in the way that we have wanted to.
00:02:47
Veronica Adams
Yes, we've never been direct
00:02:49
Heather Roberts
We've never been direct.
00:02:49
Veronica Adams
Yes.
Agent's Political Conflict
00:02:51
Heather Roberts
And it this is a conversation that's happening right now across social media as well.
00:02:56
Veronica Adams
Yes, as it should.
00:02:56
Heather Roberts
People are saying, yeah, and some people are, you know, oh, well, can't we just get back to the books? I just want to go back to the books and not have to talk about politics.
00:03:05
Veronica Adams
Those are the same people who say, can't we just be friends even though we have differing opinions? And I'm happy to say, yes, I would love to be friends with people who have differing viewpoints from my own on things that we can editorialize and feel differently about.
00:03:19
Veronica Adams
But basic human rights and our freedoms are not things that I'm willing to be, ah ah to compromise my values and morality for.
00:03:19
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:03:30
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:03:30
Veronica Adams
So no, we can't just get back to books. We can't be friends with differing opinions in this situation.
00:03:37
Heather Roberts
not not in a way that you think.
00:03:37
Veronica Adams
It's right, right.
00:03:38
Heather Roberts
I mean, yeah, it's it's really frustrating. I mean, there was a situation last week, even before the election, where um an author who writes queer romance was upset and posted on Facebook because she found out that her Um, agent was a Trump supporter and I are their agent.
00:04:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:04:04
Heather Roberts
I'm, I'm sorry. I'm not sure what appropriate pronouns pronouns are for this specific romance author.
00:04:07
Veronica Adams
Right. Okay.
00:04:09
Heather Roberts
Um,
00:04:10
Veronica Adams
So maybe the author is queer or the author is queer and writes queer romance or the author just writes queer romance and has a binary gender identity.
00:04:14
Heather Roberts
if I believe both.
00:04:17
Veronica Adams
I mean.
00:04:19
Heather Roberts
Correct. i'm I'm not entirely certain, but I know for certain that this author writes queer romance.
00:04:23
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:04:26
Heather Roberts
So we'll just call we'll call them this author we'll use they and we'll call them this author also because I want to protect their anonymity as well.
00:04:26
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:04:26
Veronica Adams
Perfect. They.
00:04:31
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:04:34
Veronica Adams
Of course.
00:04:34
Heather Roberts
um I don't know how much they would appreciate this being.
00:04:35
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:04:38
Heather Roberts
I mean, I don't know. So I'm just doing that.
00:04:40
Veronica Adams
Well, they posted it on Facebook. I suppose it's, it's for public consumption at this point, but also we don't necessarily need to be platforming their specific struggle if they haven't asked us to do that.
00:04:45
Heather Roberts
Sure.
00:04:50
Veronica Adams
So.
00:04:51
Heather Roberts
Yes, but I understand their plight is what I'm saying. So this author writes queer romance has been having their agent sell queer romance to publishers.
Politics in Literature
00:05:03
Heather Roberts
The agent is receiving royalties and payment for these services and thus is making money off of queer romance books and then is voting frankly against this agent's own interest.
00:05:06
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:19
Heather Roberts
um
00:05:19
Veronica Adams
in terms of In terms of their ability to continue selling books for this author and other authors, absolutely.
00:05:24
Heather Roberts
Right. um And so this author, this romance author, felt betrayed because they felt that the person that they were and and that they were entrusting their titles to, and also who was making money off of them, um you know, was and voting for somebody who did not support ah their way of living, that theirre their mere existence, frankly.
00:05:32
Veronica Adams
As they should, yeah.
00:05:39
Veronica Adams
Yes. Right.
00:05:52
Heather Roberts
um And yeah, I can understand that betrayal. This was before the election. So I can only imagine how things are going to continue to be after the election. um But this is an aspect, this is a business aspect where reading is political, right? Where views and values need to be aligned and in play to ensure that, to be comfortable so that everybody feels safe and comfortable.
00:06:18
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:06:19
Heather Roberts
um But when you're talking about actual reading itself being political, I mean, where have you been if you don't think reading is political? Are you reading the books that you're reading?
00:06:32
Heather Roberts
Like, I don't understand. wi
00:06:34
Veronica Adams
from the dawn From the dawn of time, people have been writing things down to change hearts and minds.
00:06:36
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:06:41
Veronica Adams
to educate. And there have been ah forces, alignments, alliances, organizations, churches, kings, empires who have tried to silence and prohibit the people from getting ahold of these things that have been written down.
00:06:59
Veronica Adams
ah it just sit Since we started writing things down as a thesis, there have been people out there trying to keep others from getting their hands on the shit we write down.
00:06:59
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:07:06
Veronica Adams
like this All there is to it
00:07:08
Heather Roberts
and so Yeah.
00:07:10
Heather Roberts
I mean, read and reading it.
00:07:12
Veronica Adams
It's not new.
00:07:13
Heather Roberts
Right. And the content of the books in which you're reading, especially for the romanticy girls and the fantasy folks and all of that. Are you actually understanding the books you're reading?
00:07:26
Heather Roberts
yes
00:07:27
Veronica Adams
e Yes. me Are the metaphors, is are the allegory, are they lost on you?
00:07:29
Heather Roberts
I mean.
00:07:34
Veronica Adams
Or you just like, just want some really hot fairy guy to do whatever he's going to do to you.
00:07:36
Heather Roberts
You enjoy the fight against.
00:07:40
Veronica Adams
And like, that's all you're getting out of it. I mean, that's fine if it is.
00:07:41
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:07:43
Veronica Adams
Okay. I mean, you do you boo, but also there's some pretty powerful messaging in some of these novels as well.
00:07:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:07:51
Heather Roberts
Right. And a lot of these messages in these novels are political.
Genres and Political Messages
00:07:55
Heather Roberts
they're They're coded politically.
00:07:56
Veronica Adams
Yes. yes
00:07:58
Heather Roberts
I mean, in romance as well.
00:07:59
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:08:00
Heather Roberts
I mean, there have been romance books, frankly, that I have thrown, um you know, I've liked up until the very last second I read one very recently. Um, that I was super enjoying. And then in the last scene, one of the last scenes, uh, the hero goes into the father's office of the the heroine and basically says like, you know, while I'm taking, you know, I'm going to be marrying your daughter sort of thing, like, you know, um, yeah I'm giving you something because you're giving me something in exchange. And I.
00:08:38
Heather Roberts
I immediately hated that book. Immediately. And I don't even think the author meant to do that. But to me, that that was a big trigger for me at my own wedding.
00:08:46
Veronica Adams
It's a common trope.
00:08:49
Veronica Adams
It's a common trope. Yeah.
00:08:51
Heather Roberts
I know. And it was a big, but it was a big trigger for me at my own wedding. Like I wrote my i wrote our vows, okay?
00:08:58
Veronica Adams
yeah Yeah.
00:08:59
Heather Roberts
um I gave a script to the pastor that was marrying us. And it's like, do not stray from this script.
00:09:05
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes.
00:09:07
Heather Roberts
ah Because,
00:09:09
Veronica Adams
We... I wasn't even married by a religious person. I was married by a gentleman who goes by the name Captain Ron, okay? And we exchanged some non-traditional vows as well.
00:09:20
Veronica Adams
So, none of this patriarchy, property...
00:09:21
Heather Roberts
ah yeah, and part of, part of, yes, the ownership, the property pieces were all ripped from, yeah, there was, right.
00:09:26
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes. The love, honor, protect versus love, honor, obey, none of that shit. If anybody's obeying anybody, it's the other way around here. I'm just, you know, like...
00:09:38
Heather Roberts
There was no obeying, there was none of that.
00:09:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:41
Heather Roberts
So I think perhaps maybe I'm more sensitive than others when they come across, you know, pieces like that.
00:09:47
Veronica Adams
Sure, sure. It's a thing for you.
00:09:48
Heather Roberts
And it's a thing for me. um And it just in in put a bad taste in my mouth. But that's, guess what? That's a political reaction to reading.
00:10:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah, it is.
00:10:01
Heather Roberts
Okay?
00:10:01
Veronica Adams
It absolutely is.
00:10:02
Heather Roberts
So, you know, you can't tell me that reading's not political.
00:10:06
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:10:07
Heather Roberts
When you're reading through these things and you have ah visceral reactions to scenes, there's a reason for that.
00:10:12
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:10:14
Heather Roberts
You know, it's an emotional political reason.
00:10:15
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:10:19
Heather Roberts
It's just reading is inherently political. When we're talking about nonfiction or we're talking that we could go to nonfiction, there's a ton of political books there.
00:10:28
Veronica Adams
Of course.
00:10:29
Heather Roberts
by When we even move outside of the romance genre, science fiction, my friends. have been yeah it's just You can't separate reading from politics.
00:10:36
Veronica Adams
Hugely political, hugely political and man.
00:10:51
Heather Roberts
You cannot.
00:10:52
Veronica Adams
The relationship between like, so storytelling and not just authors, right? Like screen screenwriters and other people who do creative writing, not technical writing or nonfiction writing.
00:11:05
Veronica Adams
They often weave a variety of philosophies, especially the ones that they identify with, into... I'm rambling because I saw something recently about George Lucas's stoicism and the narrative of the Star Wars franchise and how fascinating the relationship is between the story and and the various villain arcs throughout the prequel, the original trilogy, and all of the movies that have since followed in recent years.
00:11:33
Veronica Adams
um and the relationship between those narratives and the principal philosophy of stoicism. Super fascinating.
00:11:43
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:11:43
Veronica Adams
and And it goes beyond that in a lot of ways. Some authors choose to tell very political narratives. um There's been a meme going around on social media and a screenshot of someone mansplaining The Handmaid's Tale to Margaret Atwood herself on Twitter or threads or Insta.
00:11:51
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:12:01
Veronica Adams
I don't know which platform it was.
00:12:02
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:12:03
Veronica Adams
um But like,
00:12:04
Heather Roberts
Funniest thing I have seen in a minute.
00:12:07
Veronica Adams
Right?
00:12:07
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:12:08
Veronica Adams
and And people are aware that the Handmaid's Tale is ah a warning against a religious-based society, a theocracy, if you will.
00:12:20
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:12:20
Veronica Adams
And the person who's mansplaining the book to Margaret is saying, no, no, no, the author didn't use Christianity. She used Islam. And of course, you know, like the lion, the witch, and the audacity of this bitch, right?
00:12:31
Veronica Adams
But
00:12:31
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:12:32
Veronica Adams
um Margaret is sort of like the standard bearer now, right? Like she is the one whose books represent sort of the canary in the coal mine for all of us philosophically, but she's not the only one.
00:12:44
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:12:46
Veronica Adams
Think about young adult fiction.
00:12:46
Heather Roberts
No.
00:12:47
Veronica Adams
Suzanne Collins comes to mind.
00:12:49
Heather Roberts
Oh my God, yes. I mean, there's so many, just off the top of your head.
00:12:53
Veronica Adams
Just just off the top of my head.
00:12:56
Heather Roberts
There's so many books. I mean, frankly, I should say Handmaid's Tale has popped to the top of the charts this week.
00:12:58
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:13:03
Veronica Adams
As it should, as it should.
00:13:04
Heather Roberts
So I love that for Margaret.
00:13:06
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:13:07
Heather Roberts
But yeah, it's just yeah similar books with dystopian themes.
Book Banning and Free Speech
00:13:12
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:13:12
Heather Roberts
I mean, have you read a young adult novel ever?
00:13:15
Veronica Adams
Right?
00:13:15
Heather Roberts
Like, yeah.
00:13:16
Veronica Adams
Or even some children's literature. Uh, I, come on, I'm the Pizza Hut Book It kid, right?
00:13:23
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:13:23
Veronica Adams
Like, I read voraciously. It's probably what planted the seeds that allowed my little mind to eventually challenge some of the things I grew up with. But, um, Yeah, Lois Lowry, The Giver, Number the Stars.
00:13:36
Veronica Adams
true so I mean, The Giver is fiction, is totally fiction. Number of the Stars is historical fiction, right?
00:13:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:13:43
Veronica Adams
um but Telling true tales about what happened in the past, about things that maybe school boards and state legislatures don't let taught in public schools anymore.
00:13:54
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:13:55
Veronica Adams
That's why we have book bands.
00:13:58
Heather Roberts
Exactly. Speaking of, I mean, we've been talking about book bands for a couple of weeks.
00:14:03
Veronica Adams
that we have.
00:14:04
Heather Roberts
We did skip last week, though, recording, because it was it was a very busy week. i
00:14:10
Veronica Adams
What what had happened was
00:14:12
Heather Roberts
What had happened was, no, I was on the board, I guess I'm still on the board of the Green Mountain Book Festival in Burlington, Vermont. And we had the festival. So it was on Friday and Saturday of last weekend. And also on Friday, I was giving a workshop on and a virtual conference for IPNE, which is the Independent Publishers of New England. There we go.
00:14:41
Heather Roberts
and about you know marketing and and all of that. So it was a long weekend um and it was just a lot. So it was just busy um and we couldn't do the recording.
00:14:50
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yes.
00:14:55
Heather Roberts
but And then we rolled right into the election and and all of that. So it's been quite a week.
00:14:59
Veronica Adams
Crazy.
00:15:00
Heather Roberts
I haven't slept a lot.
00:15:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:15:02
Heather Roberts
um But before that, we were talking about book bandings in public schools and the different lawsuits that are going on.
00:15:08
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:15:09
Heather Roberts
And if you think you saw lawsuits before, boy, howdy, let me get ready.
00:15:12
Veronica Adams
Get ready. Buckle up, baby.
00:15:17
Heather Roberts
And we're going to have a lot of content to talk about. That's all I have to say.
00:15:23
Veronica Adams
provided provided we continue to have free speech rights it remains to be seen, you know.
00:15:27
Heather Roberts
Right. So yeah, I mean, let's talk about that. Cause there's a lot of, you know, people talking about and an accused people are being accusatory and saying that, Oh, you're fear mongering.
00:15:38
Heather Roberts
You know, when you say things like, we're not going to have free speech or, you know, books aren't going to be here or what have you. and Let's talk about it.
00:15:46
Veronica Adams
part of airring Part of preparing for the future is understanding what your worst case scenarios are.
00:15:52
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:15:52
Veronica Adams
they They may continue to be worst case scenarios, but I really push back against this idea that it's fear mongering to think about what is the worst that could happen.
00:16:03
Heather Roberts
I agree.
00:16:03
Veronica Adams
Because how else do you inform yourself about what you need to do now and also in preparation for either the worst case scenario or some some lesser version of it?
00:16:10
Heather Roberts
You should prepare.
00:16:15
Heather Roberts
Right. And I'm one of those prepare for the worst hope for the best type people.
00:16:20
Veronica Adams
That's it.
00:16:21
Heather Roberts
Okay.
00:16:21
Veronica Adams
That's it. Yeah.
00:16:22
Heather Roberts
So that's what we need to think about. And like, listen, if they actually get, um I'll say this first, and then I'll get to my other point. Do I think that on day one, they're going to ban romance books?
00:16:36
Veronica Adams
no
00:16:37
Heather Roberts
No, no, I don't think that a Trump administration is highly prioritized to ban romance books, that that's not number one on this list. um However, do I think that libraries and publicly funded schools and you know things like that are going to see a lot more book banning?
00:16:56
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:16:57
Heather Roberts
Yes, absolutely, that is going to happen. ah You can mark my words, mark me. ah You can mark my words. That is absolutely going to happen.
Publishing Resilience
00:17:08
Heather Roberts
and We're going to see a lot more of that type of parental book banning in public libraries and public schools.
00:17:10
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
00:17:17
Heather Roberts
Okay. So that type of, that that's a concern because it's a slippery slope, right? Now, if we get to what a lot of people are throwing around, which is the Project 2025, a little snippet about pornography and and all of that, people are talking about the Comstock Act, which if you don't know what the Comstock Act is, it is an act, it's a law that from like the 1700s, like I'm not joking. um I don't know the exact year of the law, I mean, it's in my mind, but it is not a new one.
00:17:53
Veronica Adams
some Hamilton era shit right here.
00:17:53
Heather Roberts
um Yeah, it's from I believe the 1700s and essentially it is for the United States Postal Service to govern the distribution of pornography and um
00:17:58
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:18:09
Heather Roberts
you know aboard fashions, abortion pills and things like that through the US mail.
00:18:13
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:18:15
Heather Roberts
right It limits what you can send through the US mail, which is you know why you can't send pornography like that. you know You have to have special packaging and stuff like that.
00:18:25
Heather Roberts
right So that is what people are thinking about.
00:18:26
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:18:32
Heather Roberts
And then Project 2025 with the snippet that tries to outlaw, that wants to outlaw pornography and all forms of it. um Now, one could argue, because I've argued many, many times that romance novels are not pornography.
00:18:52
Heather Roberts
And some of them aren't, like, right? oh Many of them are.
00:18:55
Veronica Adams
what what could happen and in this case is that the Supreme Court will have to make that determination at some point.
00:19:01
Heather Roberts
Right. And my question to you is whether we want the government making that choice for us, right?
00:19:10
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:19:11
Heather Roberts
Why should they make that choice? Now, objectively speaking, are some romance novels a lot spicier than others? Yes. I mean, yes, they are. Are they pornography?
00:19:22
Heather Roberts
I don't know. We we can have that art. that's a That's a legal definition-based argument that, as Veronica was saying, would have to be made in the courts to determine the scope of what includes pornography when it relates to books.
00:19:34
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Well, right. And, you know, you get into these really weird digressions and minutia and about how much sexual content in a story is required for it to simply be erotica, which is where the story centers around the sexual content itself, versus a plot where other things happen and characters are on a specific journey of some kind, but there is also sex included.
00:20:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah,
00:20:06
Veronica Adams
So, you know, maybe we end up having that discussion as a society, maybe we don't.
00:20:08
Heather Roberts
this
00:20:13
Heather Roberts
ah yeah I don't know. I don't think that that's going to happen in that discussion and that case would make it to the Supreme Court within the four years of a Trump administration.
00:20:19
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:20:24
Veronica Adams
Probably not.
00:20:25
Heather Roberts
I don't think that that is a high priority. So what I could be wrong, okay, but yeah, exactly.
00:20:31
Veronica Adams
I've been wrong about everything else this year.
00:20:36
Heather Roberts
But I'm just saying from what they have laid out as their plans, I don't see that piece of ah adult to you know free market reading ah being on the chopping block first.
00:20:43
Veronica Adams
Right. Yeah.
00:20:50
Heather Roberts
There's going to be a lot of pushback right about other things as well. So things are hopefully going to move slow with some of these things.
00:20:58
Veronica Adams
Well, and listen, Clarence Thomas is notorious for his alleged consumption of pornography back before he was appointed to the court.
00:21:03
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:21:06
Veronica Adams
So maybe we've got some sympathy from the justices who are in control.
00:21:10
Heather Roberts
I mean, that's that's a silver lining, a silver lining hope grasp if I've ever seen one, but you know, we'll we'll take what we can get these days.
00:21:12
Veronica Adams
google Google it, kids. Those of you who weren't alive in the 90s, Google it.
00:21:24
Heather Roberts
my My point is I've had some authors come to me very concerned, like what do we do? Is this is my way of life going to be gone?
00:21:30
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:32
Heather Roberts
Am I going to not be able to write what I wanna write. I think immediately, no, I don't think that that's going to be, I don't think my, our business, because listen, it doesn't just affect authors, it affects us too,
00:21:42
Veronica Adams
Right. Yes.
Strategizing Against Restrictions
00:21:47
Heather Roberts
all right?
00:21:47
Veronica Adams
yeah Your is your agents, your publicists, your marketing team, your, your PA or VA a is like, we're we're all going to be impacted by this.
00:21:48
Heather Roberts
um
00:21:52
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:21:55
Heather Roberts
but The publishers themselves, you know, they're gonna be watching this very closely.
00:21:57
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:22:00
Heather Roberts
So I don't think that there's going to be an immediate impact, okay?
00:22:05
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:05
Heather Roberts
Um, we'll see. Anything could happen. Um, and that's, that's, I think the scary part is that it's a very, we don't have a determination of saying, Oh yeah, they would never do this.
00:22:19
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:22:19
Heather Roberts
I can't say that. Um, and that's where.
00:22:20
Veronica Adams
Right. but it we've We've got two opposing groups of people in this movement, right? So we've got ah capitalists and we've got Christian nationalists and their interests on this particular issue are very opposed to one another.
00:22:33
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:22:37
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:22:37
Veronica Adams
The capitalists, and I say this with Jeff Bezos in mind, they're going to want to sell the stuff that sells. And if you ask Amazon, what the best-selling genre of ebook is, what makes them their money in Kindle Unlimited.
00:22:52
Veronica Adams
They're going to tell you it's romance novels, okay? So you get millions of dollars in a billion-dollar company at stake here and moneyed interests against the Christian nationalist base of folks, the the social movement here, if you will, who would who are responsible for and or support Project 2025 and would like to see all of this content banned.
00:23:09
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:23:16
Veronica Adams
um Your guess is as good as mine as to who prevails in this in this internal argument that they're going to have to sort out.
00:23:18
Heather Roberts
Who's going to win?
00:23:24
Heather Roberts
Correct. And that's what we're just going to have to sit by and watch. But what can you do to start to protect yourself as a business, as we're going into this unknown, ah into this field of unknown?
00:23:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:23:37
Heather Roberts
And that's what you know you should be thinking about now. One, make sure that you have your newsletter lists.
00:23:44
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:23:44
Heather Roberts
If we need to go underground for some reason, you need to be able to reach out directly to your consumers who would be wanting to purchase your product.
00:23:51
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:23:54
Heather Roberts
Because let's be clear, the market for these books, for romance books, are not is not going to disappear even if it becomes illegal for us to be able to market them okay publicly.
00:24:00
Veronica Adams
No. No.
00:24:06
Heather Roberts
So the consumption, people will still want to consume it. um there The readers will still be there. And so the question is how to distribute that to those readers.
00:24:14
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:16
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:17
Heather Roberts
So have up your own shops, right?
00:24:20
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:24:20
Heather Roberts
Set up your direct marketing.
00:24:23
Veronica Adams
you You need to be as in touch with your individual readers as you possibly can be, because beyond the issues with ah how and whether you'll be able to sell anymore, ah you're going to see content restrictions on all social media.
00:24:37
Veronica Adams
And TikTok's probably going to go away, um at least temporarily.
00:24:40
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:43
Veronica Adams
Someone may pop up with a replacement for it.
00:24:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Or the version of it in that and occur as it currently exists, maybe.
00:24:46
Veronica Adams
ah that
00:24:49
Veronica Adams
Right. Right. But even Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat by X. Well, maybe not X.
00:24:57
Heather Roberts
All right.
00:24:57
Veronica Adams
I don't know. Let's see what's been bought and paid for there necessarily. But um Trump and Zuckerberg are not friends. And Mark's going to have to he's going to have to start restricting certain content and toe the line.
00:25:08
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:25:13
Heather Roberts
Yeah. So be prepared to have to censor your posts.
00:25:17
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
00:25:18
Heather Roberts
Be prepared to have hold covers that you can use for social media posts instead of the actual cover that you want to use.
00:25:23
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:25:27
Heather Roberts
You may have to use an actual cover in newsletters, right?
00:25:28
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:25:30
Heather Roberts
And then you might have to start leaning into these discrete covers in order to allow for the retailers to publish your book.
00:25:33
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:25:39
Veronica Adams
Start writing that wave.
00:25:39
Heather Roberts
Okay. Right. I'm not saying you have to do this stuff right now, but these are things that you should be thinking about as we're moving forward that you know these might be pivots that you have to make in order to continue selling and feeding your family and having this business.
00:25:46
Veronica Adams
Yep. Yes.
00:25:57
Heather Roberts
So these are things that we're looking at that we're going to be watching very closely.
00:26:00
Veronica Adams
Mm hmm.
Political Engagement for Authors
00:26:03
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:03
Heather Roberts
Um, and so if, if you would like that to be also part of your world, please come and talk to us.
00:26:10
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:26:10
Heather Roberts
We're always hoping for new clients.
00:26:13
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:26:13
Heather Roberts
Um, but, but really, yeah.
00:26:14
Veronica Adams
But yeah, well, and also consider how well established are you in international markets?
00:26:22
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:26:22
Veronica Adams
You know,
00:26:22
Heather Roberts
Very good point.
00:26:23
Veronica Adams
what what portion of your readership is in the UK or in Australia or in New Zealand? Are you pursuing translations?
00:26:32
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:26:33
Veronica Adams
Have you tapped to the German reader market? Have you tapped to the French reader market, the Italian reader market, the Portuguese, the Spanish? I mean, there are so many doors that you can open for the backlist you currently have while you continue to find new ways to publish and sell books in whatever the environment is going to be.
00:26:52
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:26:53
Veronica Adams
um and And beyond that, consider also your options for serializing your work instead of maybe selling it in one total book, right?
00:27:05
Veronica Adams
um you know there There are technical ways to get around content restrictions. You can get an international VPN and publish from another country.
00:27:14
Heather Roberts
It's true.
00:27:16
Veronica Adams
you know then things like that that you can do. Or you can just leave American markets and be available internationally. So the sky is cloudy, but it's not falling yet.
00:27:25
Heather Roberts
Yeah, there there will be ways to put it. You can also decide. Yeah, that's not falling yet. I mean, I've talked to some authors about, you know, if they want to pursue a passion project in another genre that isn't romance, maybe now's the time to start that pen name.
00:27:41
Veronica Adams
Also, yeah, also a really good thought, I think.
00:27:43
Heather Roberts
um If they're really concerned about this, and I get it, you need to have the backup plan to the backup plan to the backup plan to the backup plan.
00:27:53
Veronica Adams
Also, malicious compliance. Start writing romance novels that are a closed door.
00:27:55
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:27:57
Veronica Adams
Fade to black.
00:27:59
Heather Roberts
Right. And then also offer all of the sex scenes and bonus content in your direct newsletter or something like that.
00:28:05
Veronica Adams
Such a great idea.
00:28:07
Heather Roberts
I mean, the the amount of, we are creative malicious compliance folks.
00:28:07
Veronica Adams
Such a great idea.
00:28:11
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:28:12
Heather Roberts
um that's That's our jam.
00:28:15
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:28:17
Heather Roberts
Excuse me. So.
00:28:18
Veronica Adams
build build a sub-stack or a Patreon community where people who are subscribed are opting in because they want the spicy stuff and that's the only place they can get it.
00:28:27
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:28:30
Heather Roberts
So we will figure this out as it goes on. we We don't know anything yet. And that's the scary part. That's why people are you know thinking about the worst case scenario because we don't know what the scenario is going to be.
00:28:45
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:28:48
Heather Roberts
We've not been really given the...
00:28:50
Veronica Adams
This is also a really diverse community and I think there's a lot of grief and fear about other things too, not necessarily related to publishing, but yeah, absolutely.
00:28:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:29:00
Veronica Adams
The unknown is the unknown is the worst part in this equation.
00:29:00
Heather Roberts
i mean I mean, and if you are a queer author, right like writing queer romance, or you're writing romance, that'd be...
00:29:11
Heather Roberts
is part of a and marginalized group. Yeah, I understand how your concerns are higher. You're valid, very valid concerns because I don't think they're gonna come for the male, female, contemporary romance books first.
00:29:27
Veronica Adams
No, they're not.
00:29:28
Heather Roberts
Okay, they're not.
00:29:28
Veronica Adams
Well, and listen, look look at the breakdown about who voted for whom, okay?
00:29:30
Heather Roberts
So, right.
00:29:35
Veronica Adams
ah This is a community that's still largely comprised of white women and we unfortunately are not necessarily safe for all of the people who are writing books for us.
00:29:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah, exactly.
00:29:47
Veronica Adams
So there's a lot of harm reduction that wasn't that wasn't engaged with and a lot of pain and distrust.
00:29:57
Heather Roberts
Correct. So it's it's gonna be it's going to be something. it's gonna We're tired, okay? we're We're all a bit tired this week, but what I need to tell you is that we can't stay tired for the next four years.
00:30:13
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:14
Heather Roberts
You can't just lay down and roll over and say, well, that's it, I'm throwing up my hands. You can't do that.
00:30:20
Veronica Adams
Right. Right.
00:30:21
Heather Roberts
um As Kamala Harris said, now is the time to roll up our sleeves.
00:30:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:26
Heather Roberts
I understand that you're tired. We all are, it's a level of exhaustion.
00:30:28
Veronica Adams
Mmhmm.
00:30:30
Heather Roberts
We don't feel like doing it again, but we have to, okay?
00:30:35
Veronica Adams
Yeah, well, and and that that is that's that's for everybody here in in this particular message, right?
00:30:36
Heather Roberts
a
00:30:40
Heather Roberts
Everyone.
00:30:42
Veronica Adams
Because ah listen. shit's expensive. Life is hard right now. Everybody is feeling a pinch or a real struggle in one way shape or ah or another.
00:30:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:30:55
Veronica Adams
And I understand that's a motivation for making a decision at the ballot box.
00:31:01
Heather Roberts
Sure.
00:31:02
Veronica Adams
Maybe a decision I disagree with for a lot of reasons, but also I have a lot of privilege that leads me to feel differently. um
00:31:11
Veronica Adams
If you voted because of your financial concerns. But you still firmly believe in freedom of speech and the right to read whatever you want to read or write whatever you want to write.
00:31:25
Veronica Adams
You've also got to be a vocal ally in in spaces where you are adjacent to the people who are going to be making these decisions. You know, I'm, I'm talking to the women who voted for Trump, who would still like to be able to read romances of all kinds.
00:31:40
Heather Roberts
Right. right
00:31:41
Veronica Adams
Like you've got to use your voice and and be on the side of free speech and free press and free publication.
00:31:51
Heather Roberts
Because if it comes down to it, you need to speak up because that you know that is how we are going to ensure that these spaces continue to exist.
00:31:51
Veronica Adams
You just have to be.
00:31:57
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
00:32:03
Heather Roberts
Um, so now is not, you know, take, take your time. Take some time for yourself. I know I went out yesterday and sat with the goats for about a half an hour and just, it's good to go do what you can do.
00:32:16
Veronica Adams
touching Touching grass is good for everybody.
00:32:20
Heather Roberts
I'm going to be posting more goat content, probably a daily goat content at this point, because I'm not the only one that needs it evidently. So. what When I say find your thing, find the thing that works for you, take your time, but remember that we...
00:32:37
Veronica Adams
I would personally like more videos of your progressive Gen X husband doing subtextually non-masculine things in his masculine way. I personally, that just, that does it for me.
00:32:50
Heather Roberts
I can i can also provide that. you ah um What Veronica is referring to is I walked in on my husband last night. He was wearing a Gen X t-shirt.
00:33:01
Heather Roberts
It literally just says Gen X whatever on it. Making dinner last night, listening to Rage Against the Machine. And it, it warmed something inside of me.
00:33:13
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:33:14
Heather Roberts
Like, like it was great.
00:33:14
Veronica Adams
Me too. Me too.
00:33:17
Heather Roberts
So I will post more of that for sure. But yeah, take take wait time for yourself. make Make sure that your mental health is good, right?
00:33:27
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:33:29
Heather Roberts
Be around people. Find your community. Be around people who can support you and love you, whether they're on the internet or and or in real life. And then remember that we need to continue using our voices.
00:33:43
Heather Roberts
We can't flee.
00:33:43
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yeah.
00:33:44
Heather Roberts
This isn't a fight or flight situation. We can't flight friends. I know it's tempting. I know lots of people want to.
00:33:50
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:33:52
Heather Roberts
If you can move your family into a safer so state, absolutely by all means, go for it, right? I did that. um You know, right.
00:34:01
Veronica Adams
Remains to be seen how safe states are going to be, though.
00:34:04
Heather Roberts
But if things go nationally,
00:34:08
Heather Roberts
where none of us are safe.
00:34:08
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
Self-care and Advocacy
00:34:10
Heather Roberts
so But do what you have to do for your family. you know We absolutely get that. But at the same time, make sure that you're using your voice to be heard in these situations so that we can continue to live the life that and we want to live and have the freedoms that we want to have.
00:34:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:34:29
Veronica Adams
And trust too that there's always a really, really good chance that our forms of entertainment are probably going to be safe because they keep us distracted from some of the things that they're doing in other places and in other ways that affect us.
00:34:39
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:34:42
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:34:44
Veronica Adams
So there's always that too.
00:34:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah. I'm not super concerned for the first four years. If things continue, andton if the Christian nationalists went out within that argument, I'll be very concerned.
00:34:51
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:34:57
Veronica Adams
Yeah, if the billionaires concede and say, you know what, it's a small percentage of our profits, we'll let it go.
00:35:03
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Let's just say I'm watching this.
00:35:05
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:35:06
Heather Roberts
I'm watching it very closely. And I will be the first to raise the alarm if I start seeing things popping up that affect this industry. So let's just, you know, hold our collective breaths a little bit more, a little longer.
00:35:24
Heather Roberts
Do what you can do right now to prepare art making a plan.
00:35:27
Veronica Adams
Start making a plan. You've got two months until Inauguration Day.
00:35:30
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:35:31
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:35:32
Heather Roberts
And remember to take care of yourself because that's the most important thing.
00:35:34
Veronica Adams
Yes. Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:35:37
Heather Roberts
And read a book, perhaps a political one.
00:35:42
Heather Roberts
Perhaps ah ah one that has ah a fantasy element with a resistance movement. and Yeah, so let's see.
00:35:48
Veronica Adams
Even better. Yeah.
00:35:52
Heather Roberts
And let's see if this outro music works. And until then, we'll ah see you next time.
00:35:56
Veronica Adams
Until next time, we are maybe for book's sake.
00:35:59
Heather Roberts
Yeah, is it working?
00:35:59
Veronica Adams
Yay, I hear it.
00:36:01
Heather Roberts
Okay, I don't, so you're gonna have to tell me what it's all about.
00:36:07
Veronica Adams
Okay.