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Beyond Fangirling: When Reader Behavior Becomes Dangerous
28 Plays19 days ago
There’s a difference between being a passionate fan and crossing the line—and the Sinners and Stardust signing showed just how bad it can get. In this episode of For Book Sake, Heather and Veronica dive into:
- The shocking ways readers harassed and assaulted models at the event.
- The ripple effect this behavior has on authors, talent, and the future of signings.
- Practical fixes to protect creators while keeping events fun and safe.
This one is eye-opening, raw, and absolutely essential for anyone who loves romance books and book signings.
Recommended
Transcript
Return from Break
00:00:00
Heather Roberts
Hi, I'm Heather Roberts.
00:00:02
Veronica Adams
And I am Veronica Adams. Together we are 1852 Yes.
00:00:08
Heather Roberts
Let's go.
00:00:17
Heather Roberts
Oh my God. Welcome back everyone. it has been a lovely break for the summer. Veronica and I took off for the summer from for book's sake in order to pursue other things, AKA hang out with our families and just really be at home and work on other projects.
00:00:24
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:00:34
Veronica Adams
yes
00:00:39
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:00:39
Heather Roberts
Um, I launched
00:00:40
Veronica Adams
A couple of side quests here and there.
00:00:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah, yeah. But we are back now. It was absolutely lovely. And we're happy to
Controversies in Publishing
00:00:49
Heather Roberts
be back. And what a time, i mean,
00:00:50
Veronica Adams
Well, yes, I'm happy to be back on the podcast. I'm not sure I'm happy about what we're going to discuss today.
00:00:56
Heather Roberts
yeah I was just going to say, what a time and to be back.
00:01:00
Veronica Adams
You aren't kidding.
00:01:01
Heather Roberts
Because, wow, what has happened this week in publishing in in our lovely little industry?
00:01:09
Veronica Adams
And Romancelandia specifically.
00:01:10
Heather Roberts
And yes, I mean, there's As if you've listened to us for any period of time, you know that there is always some type of drama within Romance Landing.
00:01:16
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:01:22
Veronica Adams
Yes. yes
00:01:23
Heather Roberts
But this one it's not great. It's not great
Sinners and Stardust Event
00:01:27
Heather Roberts
at all. So we are talking about the Sinners and Stardust book signing event. I will say straight out the gate, from all accounts, the actual event itself was run fantastically.
00:01:40
Veronica Adams
Yes, yes.
00:01:41
Heather Roberts
that The organizers did an amazing job. All of the authors were really happy with, you know, the people that came out. Everything was run smoothly from that side of things, from the professional side of things.
00:01:53
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:01:55
Heather Roberts
Everything was great.
00:01:57
Veronica Adams
However.
00:01:57
Heather Roberts
The problem, yes, the problem was the readers. And I think it is about time to start talking about this a lot more openly.
00:02:05
Veronica Adams
Absolutely, yes.
00:02:06
Heather Roberts
This has been a problem in our industry for the entire decade that I have been a part of it.
00:02:11
Veronica Adams
from from the dawn of these romance specific or romance exclusive book signing events yes absolutely yeah
00:02:18
Heather Roberts
Yes. And it is, i'm I'm really glad that events are starting to put measures in place to protect the authors and the models and those professionals who are attending the event.
00:02:32
Heather Roberts
in a professional capacity because this has been absolutely batshit fucking crazy. It's been the wild, wild west for a decade and it's just wrong. So what happened at Sinners and Stardust is sexual assault is what happened.
00:02:46
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:02:46
Heather Roberts
And this has happened at a lot of events over the years and it's just not really been talked about openly.
00:02:51
Veronica Adams
Unfortunately.
00:02:55
Heather Roberts
But specifically with the models at the event, There were several entertainers and models walking around dressed up cosplaying as characters from some of these books.
00:03:08
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes.
00:03:08
Heather Roberts
And certain authors brought them you know though from their books.
00:03:09
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:03:11
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm. that's That's typically what happens. An author will sponsor the attendance of a cover model or someone else who, you know, has the appearance of ah a lead character or something like that.
00:03:25
Veronica Adams
So, yeah.
00:03:25
Heather Roberts
Right, right. And so they're usually, they're dressed as the character.
00:03:31
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:03:32
Heather Roberts
And oftentimes that means they're shirtless or wearing something that is evocative.
00:03:39
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:03:40
Heather Roberts
However, they're playing a part, they are acting.
00:03:40
Veronica Adams
They're playing a part. They're playing a part.
00:03:44
Heather Roberts
This is not them personally, they are acting.
00:03:46
Veronica Adams
Correct.
Boundary Violations and Consent
00:03:47
Heather Roberts
And unfortunately, a lot of women, I don't know, if something snaps in their brains with these readers
00:03:53
Veronica Adams
Well, so let's, but like, let's set the table here because Sinners and Stardust is like, it's not just a regular romance book signing.
00:03:57
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yes.
00:04:01
Veronica Adams
And I don't mean to blame shift in any way toward the organizers of this event because it's not really about them.
00:04:09
Heather Roberts
no
00:04:09
Veronica Adams
Although there are some people who have some fair criticisms about how they handled some of these allegations and incidents. Yeah. And we can get into that in a little bit, but it's a, it's a dark romance book signing. And so we're talking about ah group of people getting together and celebrating things that are ah ah steeped dubious consent themes, non-consensual themes.
00:04:29
Heather Roberts
ah bill
00:04:35
Veronica Adams
Like these are books that are about things like rape fantasies and consent issues and
00:04:41
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:04:47
Veronica Adams
the readers The readers took it too far.
00:04:47
Heather Roberts
It puts.
00:04:49
Veronica Adams
They took it to heart.
00:04:49
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:04:50
Veronica Adams
They they got carried away with themselves or they're just terrible people.
00:04:54
Heather Roberts
Right. And so what would happen is readers would go up to these models and one in particular that was talked about, but i'm um there was others there as well, multiple incidents um and would, you know, grope them essentially.
00:05:00
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:05:04
Veronica Adams
Yes. Multiple incidents.
00:05:11
Veronica Adams
Hmm.
00:05:11
Heather Roberts
ah one tried to, or at least one, ah tried to stick her hand down his pants.
00:05:17
Veronica Adams
God, can you imagine? Can you imagine having the audacity to just grope someone's genitals under their clothes upon first meeting in a public forum surrounded by a whole bunch of other people?
00:05:24
Heather Roberts
Right?
00:05:28
Heather Roberts
In a public forum.
00:05:31
Heather Roberts
It's unbelievable. it's It's disgusting.
00:05:35
Veronica Adams
And what would this community be doing to a man who did that to a woman at an event?
00:05:40
Heather Roberts
Well, of course. Of course. And listen, it's just, oh, it's disgusting.
00:05:47
Veronica Adams
It is.
00:05:48
Heather Roberts
And this has been happening for years. For years at book signing events.
00:05:53
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:54
Heather Roberts
now Maybe not as blatant as this.
00:05:56
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:05:56
Heather Roberts
This was extremely blatant. um one of the readers at this event put an air tag on this gentleman and essentially stalked him throughout the event and I'm assuming to find out where he was
00:06:09
Veronica Adams
Yes, there's some allegations that the air tag was used to identify his hotel room and to follow him back to that location.
00:06:16
Heather Roberts
which is just gives me the shivers
00:06:19
Veronica Adams
And like, I get it. You're there to like get the collective vibes and hang out with other people who like stalker books like you do, but you're not actually allowed to stalk people because you're at a dark romance book signing.
00:06:33
Heather Roberts
I mean, this is like you're at a, you know, you can compare this to a variety of different situations, right?
00:06:34
Veronica Adams
What the actual fuck?
00:06:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:06:42
Heather Roberts
Let's say, i mean, it's not that because I think this is very different than say a strip club, right?
00:06:48
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:06:48
Heather Roberts
You're going to a strip club. I've been to strip clubs with, with male performers and it is, they are shaking their stuff all up in your face But at no time did was I like, I am going to grab their genitals.
00:07:05
Heather Roberts
Because I knew, that if you know you know, not that I would want to anyway, but you know you know that the second you would go to do something like that, your ass is going to be outside on the ground and you are going to be banned from that function because that is not appropriate.
00:07:09
Veronica Adams
yes
00:07:16
Veronica Adams
yes yes
00:07:21
Heather Roberts
So my point is, even at a strip club, When the expectation is very sexual, right? And the expectation is that there is going to be penis in face.
00:07:32
Heather Roberts
At no point are you even allowed to touch that genitalia. Oftentimes you can touch their abs. You can, you know, do other things that are.
00:07:40
Veronica Adams
And there are usually invitations for you to do so as part of the burlesque performance or whatever. You're usually that you get some sort of signal from the performer that it's okay to do this or you're invited to do that or...
00:07:49
Heather Roberts
Correct.
00:07:52
Heather Roberts
or they'll take your hand and put it somewhere.
00:07:54
Veronica Adams
Exactly, exactly.
00:07:56
Heather Roberts
It is part of the...
00:07:56
Veronica Adams
i've I've been to one you know where where audience members are invited up on stage and they're actually active participants in the show. And there is some touching happening, but it's not non-consensual and it's not this extreme.
00:08:04
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:08:10
Heather Roberts
Correct. This is a situation. And so I compare to that because I think it might be the closest that we can get um to this type of an event where and a a performer is standing there.
00:08:20
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:23
Heather Roberts
He is there as the character. He wants to have that feeling. He wants to evoke that type of excitement, right? From it's the readers.
00:08:33
Veronica Adams
Yes, yes.
00:08:34
Heather Roberts
That is the point of his presentation. That is why he is there so they can see him in the flesh. And so, you know, he may take their hand and put it on his abs. Then he may take their hand or, you know, allow them to run their hands up and down his arms.
00:08:48
Veronica Adams
o Yeah.
00:08:49
Heather Roberts
He has consented to those types of physical touches, but at no time and at no point did he say, put your hands down my pants and grab my dick.
00:09:00
Heather Roberts
That didn't happen.
00:09:02
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:09:02
Heather Roberts
And so when someone crosses that line, You know, like, and people are like, oh, but it was no, no, no, no. no Oh, but it no. Because that in my back my mind is, oh, well, she asked for it.
00:09:16
Heather Roberts
She was wearing this.
00:09:16
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:09:17
Heather Roberts
And so this is.
00:09:18
Veronica Adams
you If your response to this is a yes, but then you are making excuses and justifications and you are you are literally doing that exact same thing. You are, okay, well, what was he wearing?
00:09:32
Veronica Adams
yeah What the character required. Because he was he was performing.
00:09:35
Heather Roberts
Correct.
00:09:37
Veronica Adams
He was literally doing his job.
00:09:37
Heather Roberts
He was performing. And at no point did he ask be sexually assaulted.
00:09:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah. That's right.
00:09:43
Heather Roberts
At no point whatsoever. And i don't care if he was walking around naked.
00:09:48
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:09:48
Heather Roberts
At no point was there an invitation to be touching on his general.
00:09:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:09:53
Heather Roberts
If he didn't consent to it, you are not allowed to do it.
00:09:58
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:09:59
Heather Roberts
I don't know how these same women who in normal everyday society, when they're at Home Depot, will ask to pet someone's dog go up to a man happy the convention and grab for his dick without asking.
00:10:14
Veronica Adams
Right. Yeah.
00:10:16
Heather Roberts
What the fuck?
00:10:19
Heather Roberts
it It blows my mind.
Personal Experiences of Harassment
00:10:21
Veronica Adams
Well, and this is just one of many incidents that allegedly happened at the signing.
00:10:21
Heather Roberts
And so...
00:10:25
Veronica Adams
I mean, there there are accounts that someone in attendance who was actually an event volunteer was walking around wearing a strap on under their outfit
00:10:26
Heather Roberts
oh yeah, yeah.
00:10:36
Heather Roberts
Yes, yeah. yeah
00:10:38
Veronica Adams
and flashing people at random and apparently had someone following them around taking photos of people's shocked reactions upon seeing the units, if you will.
00:10:49
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:10:49
Veronica Adams
um There was something about an artist or performer in body paint who was groped so frequently and so thoroughly that most of the body paint was rubbed off by the end of the signing.
00:11:00
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah. I heard about that.
00:11:03
Veronica Adams
It just so many like
00:11:07
Veronica Adams
So many people taking the atmosphere and running with it and using it as an excuse or a justification to just be absolutely disgusting and to literally sexually assault people.
00:11:18
Heather Roberts
Right. I mean, I'll tell you, so my husband used to you know, but for the listeners,
00:11:22
Veronica Adams
I do. I do, but the audience doesn't.
00:11:26
Heather Roberts
my my husband used to write books under the name Mikey Lee. And he stopped writing books for a variety of reasons that we won't get into. But ah one of them most certainly being is when we went to book signing events, he was very uncomfortable with a lot of the attention that he received.
00:11:48
Heather Roberts
in the way in which he received it.
00:11:48
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:11:48
Veronica Adams
Yes. yes
00:11:51
Heather Roberts
um I mean, he had a woman at one point in time give him a crocheted. I don't even know it's what to call it. What you call it? It's a, it's for your ball and your balls and your penis.
00:12:03
Heather Roberts
um And it was crocheted. And she like presented it to him at his table, had him open it. And then was like, you know, is it too big? Is it too small? Like, you know,
00:12:15
Heather Roberts
and wanted to want a commentary on his genitalia. Yeah.
00:12:21
Veronica Adams
I cannot. i don't know how I don't know how we've been working together this long and I've never heard this story.
00:12:22
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:12:26
Veronica Adams
Or maybe I've heard it and I've just forgotten about it in in the years since it's happened.
00:12:27
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:12:31
Veronica Adams
Because it's been a while since he's been in in the community writing actively.
00:12:34
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. Um, yeah.
00:12:36
Veronica Adams
Oh my god.
00:12:38
Heather Roberts
I mean, they would just go up and touch him. You know, I'd be standing right there and they just go up and touch him because he was a cover model as well at the time.
00:12:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:12:46
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:12:47
Heather Roberts
So he was doing shoots and things like that. Just super weird. I will say all of the models he worked with entirely professional, all of the photographers he worked with 1000% professional.
00:12:56
Veronica Adams
Sure. Sure. Yeah.
00:13:00
Heather Roberts
I was on many a shoots where, you know, he's in a compromised position, if you will, with the female model And at no time did I feel uncomfortable, you know, as his wife ah being there watching it because it was a performance, right?
00:13:15
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:13:15
Heather Roberts
And this is what you're doing.
00:13:16
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:13:17
Heather Roberts
And he was entirely professional. They were entirely professional. It was great.
00:13:21
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:13:23
Heather Roberts
But when you get to the readers, that's when things got weird. I mean, I remember pulling up to one book signing event. There was a reader. um we were We were just pulling up in the, you know, outside And a reader came like running up to our car door and was like, oh my God, you're here, you're here, or you're here.
00:13:40
Heather Roberts
Like he was just going to drop me off at the front door to go like go check in to our hotel room.
00:13:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:13:46
Heather Roberts
And she was like, so on top of our, she's like, where are you staying? You know, like asking all of these really invasive questions to the point where we were like, oh, well, we're just going to go and park and whatever.
00:13:58
Heather Roberts
We ended up parking and then going in the back door and trying to avoid her and going into
00:13:58
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:14:03
Veronica Adams
Like celebrities ducking the paparazzi.
00:14:06
Heather Roberts
Yeah, it was it was an out-of-body experience um because we didn't want run into her there because it made us that uncomfortable.
00:14:12
Veronica Adams
Unreal.
00:14:16
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:14:17
Heather Roberts
But authors deal with this every single day. And I use my husband's experience as an example because I was present during those experiences.
00:14:24
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes.
00:14:26
Heather Roberts
um But authors deal with these types of situations all the time.
00:14:31
Veronica Adams
Well, and I think any any man, to be perfectly frank, any man who is who writes romance or is a professional adjacent to the romance community,
00:14:45
Veronica Adams
is more likely to be sexualized in an unwanted way than any woman. And ah there there are some, there are a lot of reasons for that. We we can get into that too if you want.
00:15:01
Veronica Adams
But, and you know, cover models, narrators, photographers, it's not just the guys who write.
00:15:08
Heather Roberts
No.
00:15:09
Veronica Adams
um They all receive a lot of attention that I'm sure that they don't necessarily want.
00:15:16
Heather Roberts
Yeah, absolutely.
Safety Measures and Boundaries
00:15:18
Heather Roberts
And so what I think is they're doing at these signings now, what has been proposed to be done, least at Centers and Stardust going forward, is to create a separate, a separation between the readers and the authors and entertainers.
00:15:24
Veronica Adams
hmm yeah.
00:15:26
Veronica Adams
yeah.
00:15:35
Heather Roberts
So like if you were to go to Comic-Con, for example, you can stand in line, you go see your person, right? You see the entertainer there, there's security. People are watching to make sure everything's copacetic and then you move on.
00:15:49
Veronica Adams
Yes. ah Attend, attendees have one level of access and then the talent, the talent has a completely separate.
00:15:53
Heather Roberts
And then authors. Yes.
00:15:56
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:15:56
Heather Roberts
Right. And then so authors and talent, you know, all the talent.
00:16:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:00
Heather Roberts
will have their own, you know, availability, their own VIP section at, say, a ball or something like that, where they can actually go and have fun with one another and not worry about saying something or doing something that's going to be perceived by your reader as whatever, because that happens all the time, too.
00:16:07
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:19
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:16:20
Heather Roberts
You know, you can't put your guard down.
00:16:20
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:16:21
Heather Roberts
You are at a work event. essentially. i mean, that's what, not essentially, that's what you're doing. You are at work event.
00:16:27
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:16:29
Heather Roberts
It's supposed to be a fun work event, but you're at a work event. And this will give authors and entertainers the opportunity to go and mingle with one another and a way that makes them more comfortable without having to worry about, you know, being accosted, essentially.
00:16:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:46
Heather Roberts
I'm sorry.
00:16:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:50
Heather Roberts
i got all worked up and...
00:16:52
Veronica Adams
It's all good. It's all good.
00:16:53
Heather Roberts
getting
00:16:55
Veronica Adams
Yeah. this This is, you know, to to get to the root of it all, though, this is just another example of a pervasive double standard in our community, the the romance industry specifically, i that's that's very pervasive.
00:17:10
Veronica Adams
There are a lot of women who feel entitled to behave in a way that they would be unwilling to accept men behaving in the same exact way.
00:17:17
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah. And they my my other point, they wouldn't be ah behaving like this in any other environment.
00:17:26
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:17:26
Heather Roberts
It's like they come into this environment and lose every brain cell that they ever had.
00:17:30
Veronica Adams
yeah yeah.
00:17:33
Heather Roberts
which really does not do much in so so support our arguments that we are constantly trying to make about the romance industry being empowering for women and all of that.
00:17:46
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:17:47
Heather Roberts
It's just feeding into every single stereotype that, you know, conservative media, I'll throw it out there, but places upon our industry.
00:17:55
Veronica Adams
Sure. Yeah. and just it Right. So now there's more damaging narrative out there about how sex-crazed women are assaulting a variety of people, not just not just models, but also other event attendees.
00:18:02
Heather Roberts
Right. Right.
Challenges in the Romance Industry
00:18:12
Veronica Adams
There was an author who had their boundaries violated in a bathroom, allegedly. like There were all kinds of incidents.
00:18:20
Heather Roberts
And this happens all the time. I mean, it's not even of a sexual nature.
00:18:22
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:18:23
Heather Roberts
It's of a creepy, weird nature that happens all the time.
00:18:26
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:18:27
Heather Roberts
Like, for example, that girl running up to the car and, you know, crossing us in that way.
00:18:30
Veronica Adams
Right. Yeah.
00:18:33
Heather Roberts
it's It's the parasocial relationship that that bleeds over to people thinking that you're actually friends when, you
00:18:39
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:18:41
Heather Roberts
you're not, ah you're just not. And, um, you know, I think about Rebecca Yaros having to move.
00:18:49
Heather Roberts
She literally had to move because readers found out her location and started sending her, i don't care if they were nice things, but sending things to her house.
00:18:49
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:18:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:19:01
Heather Roberts
That's weird. Don't do that. What are you doing?
00:19:06
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:19:06
Heather Roberts
like, Oh, I know this author. I want to be best friends with her. So I'm going to stalk her Yeah.
00:19:12
Veronica Adams
Also, when when you become public facing in any way, ah there is an inherent risk that you are going to attract a few crazies, right?
00:19:22
Veronica Adams
Like that means there are some people out there who are ah mentally ill, unstable. They don't understand boundaries. They are awkward. They, what whatever, you know, and they will take things too far.
00:19:33
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:19:35
Veronica Adams
They will do things and pay attention that is unwanted in in a variety of different ways, not just sexually assaulting people or, you know, being generally gross. Yeah. So that's the risk you take, I think, by becoming an author, perhaps, or a cover model or a narrator.
00:19:50
Heather Roberts
Sure. I mean, figure. Yeah.
00:19:56
Veronica Adams
But, you know, it's also possible to really, really, really appreciate someone's body of work and not be an absolute creep about it.
00:20:08
Veronica Adams
i
00:20:09
Heather Roberts
um
00:20:09
Veronica Adams
The majority of people do it every day, you know?
00:20:13
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:20:14
Veronica Adams
Um, and we have got to come up with ways to hold everyone in the community accountable. And I think that's one of the other things that people are outraged about is that the response from Sinners and Stardust to some of this stuff was a little watered down and maybe not as
00:20:34
Heather Roberts
off the Off the bat, I only saw their later replies.
00:20:35
Veronica Adams
yeah, yeah, the initial response to all of this.
00:20:38
Heather Roberts
I didn't see like the earlier stuff that was happening.
00:20:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah. and There's a lot of criticism circulating in the community right now about how it was initially handled and what was allowed to continue happening. And, you know, but the first line of responses to the complaints and stuff.
00:20:52
Veronica Adams
But yeah, I mean, it's it's a total double standard because, listen, your husband did a brave thing by daring to write romance in the first place, because this is an industry that's not very welcoming to men unless you are allowing yourself to be sexualized for some purpose.
00:21:09
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:21:10
Veronica Adams
I mean, that bottom line.
00:21:10
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:21:13
Heather Roberts
And no doubt it feels good at first. Right. Of course, you're getting attention.
00:21:16
Veronica Adams
Sure. Yeah.
00:21:17
Heather Roberts
It's like, oh, this is amazing.
00:21:18
Veronica Adams
It's validating.
00:21:20
Heather Roberts
It's validating. This is so fun, but it can quickly turn. And then and if you do something wrong, then suddenly people are turning against you or doing whatever, me trying to whatever, you know.
00:21:24
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:32
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:21:35
Heather Roberts
it it's it's fuzzy. It can get very fuzzy very quickly.
00:21:38
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:38
Heather Roberts
and um it's not always a comfortable place to be.
00:21:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah, I agree.
00:21:42
Heather Roberts
So I think authors, you need to protect yourself. You know, of course, I'm always telling people like, put yourself out there, right? Put yourself out there.
00:21:50
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:21:51
Heather Roberts
But in the same way, you need to have boundaries and you need to communicate those boundaries and absolutely allow access to your readers in ways that you are comfortable with.
00:21:54
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:22:02
Heather Roberts
I think about it as you know you're you're dealing with a toddler, right? You don't give a toddler a million choices.
00:22:11
Heather Roberts
You know don't let them decide what the next course of action is going to be.
00:22:11
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:22:16
Veronica Adams
Correct.
00:22:16
Heather Roberts
You do you want X or Y? And X or Y are both acceptable to you as the parent, but it's giving that feeling of choice to the toddler.
00:22:27
Heather Roberts
It's making them feel like they have the freedom there to choose whatever.
00:22:27
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:30
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:22:32
Heather Roberts
But you don't care what they choose because X or Y are both acceptable to you.
00:22:36
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:22:36
Heather Roberts
That is what you need to do as an author to your readers.
00:22:38
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. But as a collective community, what what are what are we going to do about this this hypocrisy, these double standards, the the the interwoven misandry?
00:22:42
Heather Roberts
You need parent them.
00:22:50
Heather Roberts
I wish... All
00:22:54
Veronica Adams
you know i mean, we men are objects to be sexualized and, I guess, taken advantage of and used for
00:22:54
Heather Roberts
right.
00:23:03
Veronica Adams
all sorts of pleasure and fantasy fulfillment and, and readers behaving badly. But if men were to do that at any reader events, the backlash would be swift and severe.
00:23:12
Heather Roberts
Yeah. one hundred percent And i I do feel that, you know, it's a little, I mean, I feel like it's a little different, you know, if he's consenting to a certain part of it, right?
00:23:29
Heather Roberts
He's consenting to a certain...
00:23:29
Veronica Adams
to To be visually consumed? Absolutely.
00:23:31
Heather Roberts
Yes. To be visually consumed and maybe me even some touching.
00:23:32
Veronica Adams
No question. Yeah, of course.
00:23:36
Heather Roberts
He is consenting to a portion of it.
00:23:38
Veronica Adams
The same way a stripper consents to being, you know.
00:23:38
Heather Roberts
But my...
00:23:41
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:23:42
Heather Roberts
Right. But the crossing of the line is the problem. And I wish that I could say that this is going to suddenly have some sort of magical change in hearts and minds.
00:23:54
Veronica Adams
No.
00:23:54
Heather Roberts
No.
00:23:55
Veronica Adams
No, this is a pervasive, long standing issue that no one has really ever pushed anyone to resolve or that.
00:23:55
Heather Roberts
No, it's not. But
00:24:00
Heather Roberts
it's not.
00:24:03
Veronica Adams
I don't know. ah Maybe it's endemic within the population of romance readers. You know what I mean? Maybe it's the kind of thing that just comes with the territory.
00:24:09
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:11
Veronica Adams
I don't know.
00:24:13
Heather Roberts
But I, I do think that having some side, some type of line would be nice.
00:24:17
Veronica Adams
hmm.
00:24:19
Heather Roberts
Um, I know i do not, I'm going to say this, I I'm going, I'm going to say this, but I want to preface it with a caveat because then all my words to be twisted. Okay. I am one of those people that do not believe romance books are porn.
00:24:32
Heather Roberts
They are not porn. It is very different than porn.
00:24:33
Veronica Adams
Agree.
00:24:36
Veronica Adams
I hate the term smut.
00:24:36
Heather Roberts
Um,
00:24:38
Veronica Adams
I hate it.
00:24:38
Heather Roberts
keep The term smut, hate it, hate it, ada hate it, hate it. We are not porn. It is very different. However, if we are going to like, and again, we're not stripping, we're we're not strip strippers either.
00:24:53
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:53
Heather Roberts
um But we just compare it to strippers. But if we're talking about an industry that has a sexualized nature to it, right? Certainly porn does that.
00:25:00
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:25:01
Heather Roberts
was that
00:25:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
Security and Responsibility at Events
00:25:03
Heather Roberts
Porn has conventions. you know what porn doesn't do with those conventions? Invite their viewers.
00:25:10
Veronica Adams
true.
00:25:11
Heather Roberts
And why don't they invite their viewers? Probably because a lot of them have a problem with being able to differentiate reality from fiction.
00:25:20
Veronica Adams
That's right. 100%.
00:25:21
Heather Roberts
Because porn is fiction, guys. it is It is scripted. I hate to tell you, it is your favorite naked reality show. It's scripted. Okay. Don't care.
00:25:33
Heather Roberts
Even OnlyFans. It's scripted.
00:25:35
Veronica Adams
hundred percent
00:25:36
Heather Roberts
So it's wild. It is a job to these people that are doing it. Some do it exceptionally well. And good for them. But so to the same degree, they're not inviting scores and scores of viewers to come and meet them in a unregulated environment.
00:25:58
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:25:59
Heather Roberts
They might do meet and greets. They might have some type of signing event, right? This is a very similar thing, but they are not allowing a unfettered access situation to them, which is what we are doing at these romance novels of ah um signing events.
00:26:13
Veronica Adams
That's right. That's right.
00:26:16
Veronica Adams
It's true.
00:26:16
Heather Roberts
And unfortunately, people have the inability to think clearly. I don't know if they're in a sexual haze. i don't understand what goes on in people's brains, but we need to create some lines of demarcation and provide some security and access.
00:26:35
Veronica Adams
Yes. And in encourage people to touch grass and remember that this is a fantasy event and not a free for all.
00:26:42
Heather Roberts
Yeah. I mean, you think about other events that were not, so it wasn't sexualized in nature, but people are fist fighting over books.
00:26:50
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:26:51
Heather Roberts
Bro, what?
00:26:51
Veronica Adams
Yes. Another example of readers behaving badly.
00:26:56
Heather Roberts
Yeah, but this is my point.
00:26:57
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:58
Heather Roberts
like It's not just, this is an example of, it's not just the sexualized portion of it.
00:27:02
Veronica Adams
no
00:27:03
Heather Roberts
That's the the the part that gets talked about the most because obviously it's terrible and criminal, but people are,
00:27:08
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:27:12
Veronica Adams
But it's, it's like different, right? Because we're talking about consumerism versus some sort of parasocial fantasy, sexualization and entitlement, right?
00:27:22
Veronica Adams
Like it's, you know, the, the fist fighting over books, those are the people that would have been like, you know, the cops would have been called on them at 3am outside of Best Buy on Black Friday, 15 years ago.
00:27:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah, no, it's true. It's another example of...
00:27:34
Veronica Adams
You know what I mean? Like,
00:27:35
Heather Roberts
Well, and this is why we're not allowed to have those events anymore either.
00:27:37
Veronica Adams
Right, right.
00:27:39
Heather Roberts
Because people have lost their damn minds.
00:27:39
Veronica Adams
People getting trampled at Walmart at midnight. Right, exactly. Yeah.
00:27:43
Heather Roberts
Which is why I'm telling you this is not going to be a solvable problem to get the behavior to stop.
00:27:48
Veronica Adams
You're right. It's probably not. It's probably not. But the event organizers across the board, all events, not not just Sinners and Stardust, but all events, they can put protocols into place to put a little bit more separation between the talent and the attendees.
00:27:53
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:27:56
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:28:03
Heather Roberts
That's what I'm saying. we We can't just, you know, say, oh, stop the behavior.
00:28:04
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:28:07
Heather Roberts
Yes, of course we can say that. Is it going to stop though? Probably not.
00:28:12
Veronica Adams
Right, right.
00:28:12
Heather Roberts
So what we need to do is put systems in place that stop the behavior but without, you know, trusting that people are going to be on their best behavior.
00:28:18
Veronica Adams
Exactly.
00:28:23
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:28:24
Heather Roberts
which is why i never understood. i mean, this is getting a little philosophical, but when people say, you know, oh, well, you know, people should just have, ah everybody should have personal responsibility and that they should do, you know, X, Y, Z for, for pro pick, pick a political topic, right.
00:28:43
Heather Roberts
Pick any social topic.
00:28:43
Veronica Adams
Sir.
00:28:45
Heather Roberts
um You know, people should have personal responsibility. And my response is, well, what if they don't, what do we do with them?
00:28:51
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:54
Heather Roberts
As a society, what do you do with somebody who doesn't follow the rules? What do you do with them? If it's not a criminal thing, right?
00:29:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:02
Heather Roberts
Obviously, we put them in jail. We have no problem doing that in this country. But if they don't behave in ah in a way that is appropriate or whatever, what do you do with them?
00:29:07
Veronica Adams
That's true.
00:29:15
Veronica Adams
Right. Yeah.
00:29:17
Heather Roberts
They're, you know, you can't just ignore the problem. You have to create systems in place to either hope. I think of drug use for an example, right? People are like, oh, well you shouldn't do drugs. Okay. No, you shouldn't do drugs.
00:29:28
Heather Roberts
I agree. But what do you do with the people who are suffering from drug abuse and can't get help?
00:29:32
Veronica Adams
right
00:29:34
Heather Roberts
Oh, well they should just really have personal responsibility. Well, that's great. But what, what do you do with them?
00:29:40
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:29:40
Heather Roberts
And it goes around in this is a circle.
00:29:42
Veronica Adams
but you're right. They should have personal responsibility, but here's the thing. They don't.
00:29:47
Heather Roberts
They don't.
00:29:47
Veronica Adams
So what do we do about the fact that they don't?
00:29:50
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:29:50
Veronica Adams
And then we have to evaluate, are they harming themselves? Are they harming other people?
00:29:54
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:29:56
Veronica Adams
You know, is, is the drug use, not just something that's bad for them physically and mentally, but also something that's bad for our society or their community or their families? Yeah. there needs to be some sort of intervention in those situations.
00:30:09
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:30:09
Veronica Adams
And also it's really just not a great idea morally or ethically to let people abuse something to their own detriment either.
00:30:09
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:30:16
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:30:17
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:30:18
Veronica Adams
So then we have, you know, further conversations about personal choices and, and rights versus privileges in a society.
00:30:24
Heather Roberts
I
00:30:25
Veronica Adams
And like, You know, we we could peel so many layers, so many layers off this onion, right?
00:30:28
Heather Roberts
know. I told you this stuff. I told you this stuff was topical.
00:30:32
Heather Roberts
I told you.
00:30:32
Veronica Adams
But at the end of the day, there has to be some sort of intervention to protect people that are being harmed by this unwanted behavior.
00:30:40
Heather Roberts
Yes. And you can't just remove...
00:30:44
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:30:44
Heather Roberts
ah The people, like, you know, I think about homeless encampments being just removed from certain areas.
00:30:50
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:30:51
Heather Roberts
Just removing them does not fix the problem.
00:30:53
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:54
Heather Roberts
It doesn't make it go away.
00:30:55
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:56
Heather Roberts
You have to create up systems that will help individuals fix the problem.
00:31:00
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:31:01
Heather Roberts
And in the same way, know I just took a leap, but in the same way, we need to create systems at events like this to prevent people
00:31:08
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:31:10
Heather Roberts
problems from happening.
00:31:11
Veronica Adams
Yeah. yeah
00:31:12
Heather Roberts
And I don't know, I'd love if we could get some type of ah educational awareness program. Maybe that's what we're doing right now. Educational awareness for readers. How not to act at a book signing event.
00:31:26
Heather Roberts
This is not appropriate. I don't know what else to say. So much.
00:31:33
Veronica Adams
Well, and there's no, there's no like industry standard or, or some sort of professional organization where event organizers and planners have their own like trade union or something, right?
00:31:46
Veronica Adams
Where they're all the part of the same, you and I by education and practice and for some crazy fucking reason, desire at one point in both of our lives are lawyers.
00:31:56
Heather Roberts
Right. Yes. Right.
00:31:58
Veronica Adams
And we're both members of different bar associations. There is no similar trade organization for book signing event planners. Maybe there should be.
00:32:05
Heather Roberts
Maybe they should.
00:32:06
Veronica Adams
Maybe they should all have their own little whisper network where they're like, all right, this person is banned from all of our events going forward because of these allegations or this behavior, you know, and they don't do that.
00:32:11
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:32:17
Heather Roberts
right
00:32:17
Veronica Adams
Maybe they should.
00:32:19
Heather Roberts
and thisha Yeah, that that could prevent at least these these people from coming into these spaces and wreaking havoc in ah in a way that is unproductive.
00:32:26
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:30
Veronica Adams
Absolutely. And you are welcome to come. We want you here. We want to continue having community and interaction. And this is this is as good for the authors as it is fun for the readers. Like, it's not like it needs to end.
00:32:43
Veronica Adams
It's just there needs to be more protections and some sort of guardrails for how we deal with folks who, you know, I don't know, do we need a three strikes rule?
00:32:44
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:32:52
Veronica Adams
Right?
00:32:52
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:32:53
Veronica Adams
Like...
00:32:54
Heather Roberts
I miss RT. I mean, RT didn't from, I've not heard any terrible stories about RT.
00:33:00
Veronica Adams
The good old days.
00:33:02
Heather Roberts
They perfected that by the end of it. And they gave no fucks. They, if you, if you stepped over the line, you were out.
00:33:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah. I've seen some mumbles about how there were some issues with RT in the beginning. So like way back, but by the end, before they shut it down, you're right.
00:33:18
Heather Roberts
um Oh, I'm sure. That's what I'm talking about.
00:33:22
Veronica Adams
It was, it was a well-oiled machine.
00:33:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Like it was very well oiled and, um, they were, they didn't play.
00:33:30
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:33:30
Heather Roberts
And I mean, we, we once didn't even have tickets to RT, but went just to be at the bar, just to be in the hotel, you know, get network work because it was such an amazing networking opportunity.
00:33:39
Veronica Adams
a Yep. Yep. Yeah. Meet people, shake hands, share your business card, talk to folks.
00:33:47
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:33:48
Veronica Adams
Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm.
00:33:50
Heather Roberts
Um, That was, yeah, way back in the day. hi I mean, our team is amazing.
00:33:56
Veronica Adams
I once met a very popular and very attractive cover model at RT and did not assault him.
00:34:04
Heather Roberts
Amazing.
00:34:04
Veronica Adams
So, you know, it's possible.
00:34:05
Heather Roberts
Amazing. Yeah. It's totally possible. ah I just don't know. People's psychological makeups are what they are.
00:34:18
Veronica Adams
Yeah, know. I know.
00:34:20
Heather Roberts
And while we can try to educate.
00:34:21
Veronica Adams
Well, and that's that's why I think that like the setting of this particular event played some sort of psychological part here because these readers aren't just getting together for romance in general. They're getting together and celebrating the really dark stuff.
00:34:36
Heather Roberts
Sure. Yeah. And it put them in a different mindset.
00:34:39
Veronica Adams
Uh-huh. And I think that's an event where for better or worse, more guardrails are probably required.
00:34:46
Heather Roberts
Yeah. You put them up just to, just to make everyone safe and yeah.
00:34:50
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm. Yeah. that masked man stalker fantasy coming to life. um Maybe not with people who aren't openly and actively consenting to it.
00:35:02
Veronica Adams
Like who puts an air tag on a stranger? does that?
00:35:07
Heather Roberts
crazy stalkery people that's who does that like this is not your this goes back to people thinking they're the main character in their own you know novel essentially I know and they're fine with it somehow if they're doing it there's a lot about human psychology I don't understand that I would be up there
00:35:19
Veronica Adams
I know, but so many so many women have been victims of that kind of behavior. In their private lives.
00:35:32
Veronica Adams
Yeah, me either. Me either.
00:35:35
Heather Roberts
But yeah, so I think guardrails being put in place, huge help, huge help.
00:35:40
Veronica Adams
Agree.
00:35:41
Heather Roberts
And that's something that other event organizers should really consider because yeah.
00:35:47
Veronica Adams
Along with your own trade organization. Cause like, damn. damn
00:35:52
Heather Roberts
I also think having some type of a trade organization for event organizers would be lovely too, because it would vet new event or organizers coming in and could create some type of a mentorship process.
00:35:59
Veronica Adams
for sure.
00:36:03
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:36:04
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:36:05
Heather Roberts
And would help cut down.
00:36:06
Veronica Adams
Accredit accreditation so readers can trust new events, right?
00:36:07
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:36:10
Veronica Adams
Like, yeah.
00:36:11
Heather Roberts
Yes. That's, that's the whole thing. Because there's so many, you know, how many million lies have we seen over the years? A lot.
00:36:18
Veronica Adams
how many, like, how many people have we seen get taken?
00:36:19
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:36:21
Veronica Adams
They pay table fees and they're like, I'm so excited to support this event.
00:36:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:36:24
Veronica Adams
And then, excuse me, the event organizer absconds with the funds or just doesn't follow through.
00:36:29
Heather Roberts
time
00:36:30
Veronica Adams
and it you know,
00:36:32
Heather Roberts
So many times over the years. So many times.
00:36:34
Veronica Adams
that the ball in Baltimore earlier this year, what was that event? God, that's it.
00:36:40
Heather Roberts
There's the Million Lies Festival. a Million Lies.
00:36:41
Veronica Adams
Thank you.
00:36:42
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:36:43
Veronica Adams
The fire festival of books.
00:36:44
Heather Roberts
Yes. Yes. But that's not an uncommon event, unfortunately.
00:36:46
Veronica Adams
yeah Yeah, yeah, you're right.
00:36:50
Heather Roberts
I mean, I've been to signings where there have been absolute crickets. Like you're hanging out in a room. there's You're like, how many actual book sales or event tickets were made here? And no, I won't even go to a book signing event if the ah tickets are free in any way. Absolutely the fuck not.
00:37:12
Veronica Adams
That's probably a smart choice.
00:37:14
Heather Roberts
Because i have found in my experience, if the tickets are free, people have no skin in the game. So they might accept a ticket or buy a ticket and they just decide not to come because they.
00:37:22
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:37:25
Veronica Adams
Right. You're inviting people to take tickets and then not show up.
00:37:27
Heather Roberts
three Right. So you can be like, oh, I gave out 3000 tickets, but nobody shows up because nobody has any type of skin in the game.
00:37:33
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:37:38
Heather Roberts
So having an actual price point, yeah, I think that's helpful.
00:37:41
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:37:41
Heather Roberts
But then you need to make sure that you're putting on an event that is, you know, worth that price point.
00:37:48
Veronica Adams
Yeah. the The publicity for the event is also super important.
00:37:53
Heather Roberts
Yes. Just throwing it up on Facebook is not enough, friends.
00:37:56
Veronica Adams
No, no
00:37:58
Heather Roberts
It's not enough.
00:37:58
Veronica Adams
no. Newsletter marketing, advertising, important stuff.
00:38:01
Heather Roberts
Actual local news, advertising, all that sort of stuff.
00:38:07
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:38:07
Heather Roberts
Hire somebody to help.
New Publishing Courses
00:38:11
Heather Roberts
Anyway, well, I would be remiss if we didn't talk briefly about the new courses that I just put together and part of the reason why I was off for a couple of months.
00:38:16
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:38:23
Veronica Adams
shameless plug.
00:38:24
Heather Roberts
It has to be. You know, I put a lot. Why? Because I put lot.
00:38:28
Veronica Adams
We don't this for our health. we i mean, you and I could sit on the phone and bitch about shit all day long.
00:38:30
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:38:33
Veronica Adams
Like that.
00:38:34
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we do that privately all the time anyway.
00:38:35
Veronica Adams
we We've been friends for 20. You told me earlier this week, 21 years.
00:38:39
Heather Roberts
twenty Well, 21 years since we've been sisters.
00:38:42
Veronica Adams
Jesus.
00:38:42
Heather Roberts
We met in, yeah we met in 2020 or 2020, 2003.
00:38:43
Veronica Adams
We've been friends more than that. 2003.
00:38:45
Heather Roberts
22 years.
00:38:46
Veronica Adams
two thousand three
00:38:50
Heather Roberts
my husband. Yeah. You've been around long before.
00:38:52
Veronica Adams
the fastest 22 years of my life love
00:38:54
Heather Roberts
Right. i now i've known you longer than i've known my husband
00:39:00
Veronica Adams
indeed indeed yeah no we we could do this privately but you you we are doing this for a reason a variety of reasons that that serve for book's sake that serve 1852 media that serve literary
00:39:00
Heather Roberts
oh yeah you been around long before
00:39:06
Heather Roberts
like
00:39:09
Heather Roberts
variety of reasons, one of them.
00:39:15
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:39:17
Veronica Adams
and yeah so plug it let's
00:39:19
Heather Roberts
And serve you as the listener.
00:39:21
Veronica Adams
That's right. That's right. So plug it.
00:39:22
Heather Roberts
and
00:39:23
Veronica Adams
Let's hear all about the courses you've been working on.
00:39:24
Heather Roberts
okay. So I created something as part of 1852 Media and it is called The Publishing Store.
00:39:28
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:39:32
Heather Roberts
It is a group of six courses that are really encased in the fundamentals of how to publish a book.
00:39:32
Veronica Adams
Which love.
00:39:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:39:41
Heather Roberts
If you do not know where to start, you've thought about writing, if you've always wanted do jazz,
00:39:46
Veronica Adams
You've got finished manuscripts, but you've just never hit publish.
00:39:50
Heather Roberts
You can go, the bundle is the best value because of course it is, but you can go and buy any of these courses individually.
00:39:57
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:39:58
Heather Roberts
If you think that that's something that you you just need that one course. ah The first course is ah Mastering Your Author Brand. That is currently on sale right now for $33.
00:40:09
Heather Roberts
It is usually So it's a massive discount of for our opening
00:40:14
Veronica Adams
And not going to lie, there are some really long time experienced authors who could benefit from that too. That's not just a, that's not necessarily just a beginner course.
00:40:21
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:40:24
Veronica Adams
That's that's like,
00:40:24
Heather Roberts
i Correct. I break it down to a granular level for the purpose of those coming in without any type of knowledge, but there is information in these courses that an author at any level could really find value in.
00:40:31
Veronica Adams
Brand new. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:38
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:40:38
Heather Roberts
You get a slide deck, you get workbooks, you get checkbooks, you get and me talking to you for however long the course is.
00:40:44
Veronica Adams
She thought of everything you guys. Yeah.
00:40:47
Heather Roberts
Yeah, they're comprehensive and you can't find them anywhere else because I created them. This is not one of those, you know, oh, I bought a course and I'm selling you a course. No, this has actual information in it.
00:40:58
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:40:59
Heather Roberts
They, uh, valuable information. I'm also, I've created a YouTube channel as well called the publishing store. So once you subscribe to this one, if you haven't already subscribed to for book sake, go and subscribe to the publishing store.
00:41:09
Veronica Adams
Please. Yes.
00:41:12
Heather Roberts
I'm putting up, uh, information tips and tricks, uh, from those courses in there. And I really created it because, you know, not everybody can afford to hire Veronica and i to personally consult them.
00:41:24
Veronica Adams
yep
00:41:26
Heather Roberts
And we recognize that. We know that times are tough out there and we still want to be able to help as many authors as we possibly can. So this is a lot of great information at a lower price point that you can come in and work through it at your own pace.
00:41:34
Veronica Adams
yes
00:41:41
Heather Roberts
ah you can
00:41:41
Veronica Adams
Which is, I think, maybe the best part of it because you can self-pace it.
00:41:43
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:41:45
Veronica Adams
You don't have one of us in your ear going, why haven't you done this yet?
00:41:48
Heather Roberts
Yes, exactly.
00:41:49
Veronica Adams
Send me the shit I need to get this done for you. Where have you been? what are you doing?
00:41:54
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:41:55
Veronica Adams
Get off of TikTok and write your damn book. like You get to control the whole pace of this, which is great.
00:41:59
Heather Roberts
Yes, a whole piece. And there's great courses in there. There's one about traditional publishing. So if you ever thought about what does it take for traditional publishing, you don't understand how it works.
00:42:10
Heather Roberts
You don't understand the agent author relationship.
00:42:11
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:42:13
Heather Roberts
You don't understand your relationship with the publisher, what that would look like. you don't know even know how to write a query letter, this will help you. It gives you the elements of a query letter, it gives you examples of what a bad, okay, and good query letter are so that you can really see the nitty-gritty of what makes a query letter good.
00:42:30
Veronica Adams
indeed
00:42:32
Heather Roberts
And it tells you where to find agents as well. I mean, this is not, this is all information or at least a lot of it. Some of it's my opinion that, you know, you can't find anywhere else, but you could go and Google some of this stuff, but you, I've curated it all for you in a lovely little lesson.
00:42:48
Veronica Adams
Right. Well, and you have to sort through all of the like sponsored results in the Google search and the the AI summary that's not always completely accurate or cites someone who's out there doing something for profit, like a vanity press who will, yeah, yeah, for better or worse, may or may
00:42:54
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:42:58
Heather Roberts
Right. Right.
00:43:05
Heather Roberts
which we talk about in there as well. Yeah.
00:43:10
Veronica Adams
have more of their own bottom line interests in heart rather than the quality of the support you get publishing your book with them. yeah.
00:43:17
Heather Roberts
yeah And then we have self-publishing success, which talks about you being your own boss and everything, everything that comes with that.
00:43:26
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:43:26
Heather Roberts
From filing legal paperwork with your state to you know time management opportunities and things that you can do to help that, as well as what you really need to do to be successful as your own publishing house.
00:43:34
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:43:42
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:43:43
Heather Roberts
Then there's understanding book marketing, which is exactly what it sounds like, and really breaks down all of the different types of author marketing for authors, gives you content pillars.
00:43:56
Heather Roberts
It's really intensive there. And then we have advertising strategy for authors, which is and a really great overview course of all of the opportunities that you have for advertising.
00:44:08
Heather Roberts
And then finally, we have building a powerful review network.
00:44:13
Heather Roberts
And that is about getting reviews for your books. So I think it's really comprehensive. I think it's great. I think everybody should benefit from it. But anyway, run and go
00:44:13
Veronica Adams
Yes.
Invitation for Guests
00:44:25
Heather Roberts
check it out.
00:44:25
Heather Roberts
It's thepublishingstore.com.
00:44:25
Veronica Adams
yeah Yes.
00:44:27
Heather Roberts
And I really appreciate it. I put a ah lot of blood, sweat, and tears into those courses. So I love them to help people.
00:44:35
Veronica Adams
that That was the primary Summerside quest, let's be real.
00:44:38
Heather Roberts
Yes. Yeah. That was the primary one. I couldn't do that and this at the same time. It was too much.
00:44:43
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:44:43
Heather Roberts
It was too much.
00:44:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:44:45
Heather Roberts
And to the other, you know, and work.
00:44:45
Veronica Adams
Yeah. It's all good. I mean, summer vacation is over here. We are back in school full time. This is, it's all good.
00:44:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah, I think this was really nice. It was ah it was a good break.
00:44:58
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:44:58
Heather Roberts
And we're excited to bring on some new people to talk with in the future.
00:45:03
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:45:03
Heather Roberts
So if you are interested in coming on for book's sake, please reach out and let us know.
00:45:04
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:45:09
Heather Roberts
We'd be happy to chat with you and and see if you're a good fit for us.
00:45:09
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:45:13
Veronica Adams
Find out what it is you'd like to talk about. Yeah.
00:45:16
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah. So please reach out. Admin at 1852 Media. Check us out. So, yeah.
00:45:21
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:45:21
Heather Roberts
so But I think that is it for the day. I think it's a that's enough.
00:45:25
Veronica Adams
Awesome.
00:45:27
Heather Roberts
And moral of today's, know, moral of today's story, don't be an asshole.
00:45:28
Veronica Adams
It'll never, it'll never be enough.
00:45:35
Veronica Adams
Don't, yeah. Don't, don't, don't be a sexual assaulter. Don't be a creep or a stalker.
00:45:39
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:45:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah, I think you summed it up great there. And think about your actions and go try to help someone today.
00:45:49
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:45:49
Heather Roberts
Help someone, be a kind human.
00:45:51
Veronica Adams
I love that.
00:45:52
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:45:53
Veronica Adams
What a great way to end.
00:45:53
Heather Roberts
All right.