Transcript
Heather Roberts: hi welcome back to For Books Sake. I'm Heather Roberts.
Veronica Adams: I am Veronica Adams and we are 1852 Media.
Heather Roberts: All right, we have not been on in a minute. So there has definitely been some things that have happened in the book community that we could talk about.
Veronica Adams: Oh boy, haven't there.
Heather Roberts: There have been, uh, we're just going to pick probably the the biggest one that happened and and talk about that.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And, uh, that would be Sophie Lark and her books, Sparrow and Vine that has been pulled from publication now.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: So that's, yeah, absolutely crazy.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: So what happened? Okay. Okay. Sophie Lark had an upcoming book called Sparrow and Vine. It is being published by Sourcebooks, well, Bloom Books, which is an imprint of Sourcebooks.
Veronica Adams: Bloom. Yeah. An imprint. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And it um was scheduled, ARCs were out for it. So it was scheduled to be released.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: It has not yet released.
Veronica Adams: Blows my mind that we got to the arc phase on this before all of this went down, by the way. Just putting that out there.
Heather Roberts: Yes, true. While ARC readers were reading the book, as they do, The whole goal of ARCs is to get people talking about a book.
Veronica Adams: That's right.
Heather Roberts: well Well, this did just not in the way that she likely intended.
Heather Roberts: Now, as arc readers were reading, there are two specific snippets, lines in the book that that that people found problematic.
Veronica Adams: yeah Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: ah One line says, i was inspired by Elon Musk. I use his five-step design process, which is, i mean, a bit tone deaf for the current political landscape.
Heather Roberts: But otherwise, i mean, depending upon who you write your audience your intended is, less problematic than the next one that said, yeah, the next one that is quote, but shouldn't there be a crew of people with questionable work visas picking these grapes for us?
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Veronica Adams: Now, that's not Sophie's opinion necessarily, but she wrote that as a line of dialogue from one of the characters.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: I believe ah ah either speaking or in written communication, one of the character these are a characters' words in the novel. So um not necessarily her opinion, but also where the hell did that come from?
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Veronica Adams: Like, it it it's in the brain somewhere, right?
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: Like, she thought it, thought it enough to write it.
Heather Roberts: Yes. and And usually authors will use, ah you know, but if if a character has a bad opinion about something, that absolutely fine.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: You can write things like that in a book. However, it is off. It's the author's job to then challenge that with another character or other something, some other device.
Veronica Adams: A character development arc where something happens and we process this bad take.
Heather Roberts: Correct.
Veronica Adams: And become i'm either informed or corrected or a better person. Or maybe maybe we stick to our guns and we just end up being one of those not great characters, right?
Heather Roberts: recognize that.
Veronica Adams: Like...
Heather Roberts: Yeah. And, but you as the reader need to realize that this person is a not great character because of these terrible beliefs that they hold.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: And that is not what happened in this book.
Veronica Adams: Questionable visas.
Heather Roberts: um
Veronica Adams: Questionable visas.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: I just...
Heather Roberts: um Yeah.
Veronica Adams: I just...
Heather Roberts: It's just, well, hold on. What's the exact line again? Where is it? I have it.
Veronica Adams: the The direct quote is, shouldn't yeah shouldn't there be a crew of people with questionable work visas picking these grapes for us?
Heather Roberts: Questionable work visas.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. So what happened?
Veronica Adams: I mean, maybe we should. That's how our economy has worked up to this point, right? And now we are about to experiment with how our economy is going without these people in it?
Heather Roberts: o
Veronica Adams: Like, okay.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: um it's hard to argue with the factual basis necessarily the hate the the tone of hate is the racism is xenophobia is
Heather Roberts: But obviously bad
Heather Roberts: cake. So
Veronica Adams: oh
Heather Roberts: she issued a statement on Instagram that she posted on Instagram.
Veronica Adams: yeah that she did
Heather Roberts: So I'm going to read it in total because I feel like people are picking, you know, snippets and and things like that.
Veronica Adams: Context is important.
Heather Roberts: I want to, context is important.
Veronica Adams: Yeah. Let's let's let's hear the whole thing.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. So I'm going to read the whole thing. going to get out a couple tabs on my desktop so that I can have a better experience over here.
Heather Roberts: ah
Veronica Adams: got too many tabs, y'all.
Heather Roberts: y'all. I have so many tabs. It is wild. Okay. Okay. I want to start by saying how much I appreciate this community. Your passion, support, and willingness to engage in meaningful conversations have always meant the world to me.
Heather Roberts: That's why it's so important for me to address something I got wrong. Okay. We're starting out strong.
Veronica Adams: That's pretty strong.
Heather Roberts: Okay.
Veronica Adams: That's pretty strong.
Heather Roberts: That's pretty strong. but We're okay with that.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: It has been brought to my attention already a problem. In my opinion, you wrote this.
Veronica Adams: I'm passing.
Heather Roberts: It shouldn't have been.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: to not be It is brought to my attention.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: You wrote the thing. Okay. ah It has been brought to my attention that certain lines in Sparrow and Vine were hurtful. Reading your messages and hearing your perspectives over the past 24 hours has been humbling, and I want to acknowledge the pain my words have caused.
Heather Roberts: I am truly sorry. My intention was to craft and demonstrate a flawed main character, but instead I wrote dialogue that read as attacking to a community that I care about very much.
Veronica Adams: Hmm. Hmm.
Heather Roberts: I know...
Veronica Adams: I'm having trouble squaring that, right? Like, the the intention is the flawed main character, but the impact is something hurtful that a flawed main character would do?
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Being racist.
Veronica Adams: Like...
Veronica Adams: Hmm.
Heather Roberts: You can have a, and like we said, you can have a flawed main character, but also coming back, it is very challenging to have a redemption arc for a character to come back from racism.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Veronica Adams: For sure. ah
Heather Roberts: how Yeah.
Veronica Adams: In the context of today's society, if you're writing a modern contemporary novel set in contemporary times, 100%.
Heather Roberts: Correct.
Veronica Adams: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: So that's, ah yeah if your if your character is flawed, you can have them be flawed about a variety of things, but you chose the racist comment for them to be flawed.
Veronica Adams: sir
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: So that's that's the struggle I deal with. It's the choice, right? that
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: Okay, next next bit. During the editing process, Bloom, her publisher, recommended removing these lines and I made the wrong choice in keeping them.
Heather Roberts: I now understand that impact matters more than intent and I regret that my words caused harm. Please don't blame boom Bloom for my mistakes. I read that as Bloom, please don't cancel my book deal.
Veronica Adams: Oh, that's the cynical approach. And perhaps not too far off the mark in this case, but like in the light most favorable to Sophie, ah that that's a solid, state that that's a solid portion of the statement. There's some accountability there, right? Like, and also
Heather Roberts: Sure.
Veronica Adams: um so um a definitive position that the publisher in this case is sensitive to these issues
Heather Roberts: My, yeah.
Veronica Adams: and wanted her to take a different approach here. And it's it's all on her that the approach that was taken was taken. You know, nobody else had taken this but her.
Heather Roberts: i I'm a little, yeah, I agree with that. But I'm also, I'm a little floored here because i have heard publishers not you know not letting books go forward.
Veronica Adams: Sure.
Heather Roberts: I've not just heard, but like I have been in such, like I've helped authors where authors want to write specifically X and the publisher says, no, I'm not, we're not moving forward if you do that.
Veronica Adams: Yeah. Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Veronica Adams: right
Heather Roberts: yeah. Sorry. Bloom could have taken hard line approach here and said, no, you have to take that out. But they chose not to.
Heather Roberts: So I um and don't know what really happened there. this is a little of odd to me. It's a little strange that Bloom would identify these as problematic lines.
Heather Roberts: And I believe they did a sensitivity read. The sensitivity reader came back and deemed these lines problematic. And then Bloom presented that to Sophie. And Sophie said, I want to keep them in. And Bloom said, okay.
Heather Roberts: that's That's concerning also.
Veronica Adams: No, I absolutely agree with that. 100%. You're absolutely right. The publisher has the prerogative of saying this is a hard limit.
Veronica Adams: We are not going to distribute, produce, publish anything that approaches this line.
Heather Roberts: um
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: And they didn't.
Heather Roberts: And they didn't. So, okay. Now, now to the whopper of a paragraph that everybody is losing their minds over. Okay.
Veronica Adams: You mean we haven't gotten there yet?
Heather Roberts: We haven't gotten there yet. Here we go. I wrote this back in the summer of 2024 and a lot has changed in the world since then.
Heather Roberts: particularly in regard to the fate of immigrants worldwide and certain public figures. Some things I would write differently now. So that's exactly what I'm going to do.
Heather Roberts: I'm sorry.
Veronica Adams: What has changed since the summer of 2024, Sophie?
Heather Roberts: is right?
Veronica Adams: What changed? Yeah. what what what has changed
Heather Roberts: What?
Heather Roberts: I'm pretty sure immigrants were also ah the chopping block in 2024. twenty twenty four One, also, this is just a bad take, period. It doesn't matter. like If you wrote this past 1995, this is a bad take.
Heather Roberts: like I mean, I just picked a random date, but I'm just saying like this is an antiquated
Veronica Adams: Is
Heather Roberts: view of immigration and immigrants and all of that.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: But to say that summer of 2024, the summer, the summer, we are months past the summer of 2024.
Veronica Adams: this coded as in like, I wrote this when we still thought Joe Biden was running for president? Like, it like what does that mean? The summer of 2024?
Heather Roberts: I don't know. Right. We wrote this before Donald Trump was elected again. i don't know before. the you know mass deportations were a thing? what Before what?
Veronica Adams: Like before the RNC, when there was still a snowball's chance in hell that Nikki Haley was going to be the Republican candidate instead of Donald Trump. Like what? I really don't understand what difference it makes that you wrote this nine months ago instead of six weeks.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: Like.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Even if you said two years, I don't think that would have made a difference.
Veronica Adams: No. No.
Heather Roberts: This is just, it is problematic. It is very problematic. So, all right, let's continue with the statement. Words mean nothing without action.
Heather Roberts: So I'm pausing this book and this series for some rewrites to ensure that my work doesn't contribute to harm. i will also be listening more closely to our sensitivity readers and taking additional steps to educate myself on responsible storytelling.
Heather Roberts: And to those who took the time to share their feedback, thank you. To those I have hurt, I'm very sorry. i hope I can earn your trust back in the future. Love Sophie. And that is it.
Heather Roberts: I mean, as far as statements go, she, she did the statement. She had someone help her write this.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: There's no doubt about that, bye that line, whoever she helped had help her write it, unless they told her to take it out and she decided to keep it in because that's what she does that.
Heather Roberts: I wrote this back in the summer of 2024 line is a wild one
Veronica Adams: i i don't understand the context for diminishing the harmful impact by making the timeline at all relevant to this. Like,
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Somehow it was not as bad as it is today because you wrote it nine months ago. like in, in, in what world?
Heather Roberts: Right. Yeah. So since.
Veronica Adams: Can you imagine if this had been about like picking cotton instead of grapes?
Heather Roberts: Right. Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Veronica Adams: My mind is just blown. Like, like i I am like the cursor spinning. My computer is just like trying to load, looking for something redeeming here. And it's, I got nothing to grasp onto.
Veronica Adams: This is, oh
Heather Roberts: Well, and so here's the thing. Now people, now there's a spotlight on Sophie, right?
Veronica Adams: Right, right.
Heather Roberts: So people are like, Hey, I've talked about other problematic lines that she has had in the past, but nobody wanted to pay attention to me. So I'm going to talk about them now.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: And there is a line in a book that she wrote. I believe she indie published this one.
Veronica Adams: Uh-huh.
Heather Roberts: There's, i don't know if have you i don't know if you've heard this one. um She wrote a book with a black female main character um and a white um hero, right?
Veronica Adams: Mm-hmm.
Veronica Adams: Okay.
Heather Roberts: Male character where she has the black female main character say, quote, he can be my master and I'll be his slave if that's what it takes to get him back again.
Veronica Adams: Mm-hmm.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: Yes.
Heather Roberts: No. So this is not... This is not an isolated incident.
Veronica Adams: What in the gone with the wind is going on in Sophie Lark's office? Like, what?
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.
Veronica Adams: The red flags are always there, right? Like, we just don't see them.
Heather Roberts: Right. Or people reap but people do see them, but nobody, people ignore them or ignore people that want to talk out about them or speak out about them and and other type of behavior. Mm-hmm.
Veronica Adams: Now, you know what it is? it's a It's a lack of diversity in leadership and ownership of this community. There are still too many, I'm sorry, there are still too many white women with internalized racism and misogyny for that matter, who are making decisions about what is popular and what we're going to platform and who is you know, who who the MVPs are.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Period.
Veronica Adams: Oh, this is gross.
Heather Roberts: It's gross. So in, in my, I believe that, I mean, i know that she was saying she paused the books and all of that, but I'm pretty sure Bloom at this point has pulled it out of the deal.
Veronica Adams: i would I would think they'd have to, right?
Heather Roberts: I'm pretty sure they did. Which, just an FYI, if you're an author in this situation, this is terrible. Because if this happens, you likely have to pay back your advance that you have received for this title.
Veronica Adams: Yep.
Veronica Adams: Yep.
Heather Roberts: um And I think this was a series. And so she probably was getting, you know, installments at least. But I can't imagine that this was a small advance
Veronica Adams: Mm-hmm.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: because she was you know a very huge author, a very popular author.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, absolutely.
Heather Roberts: So I can't imagine it was all that small. I mean, I could go into Publishers Marketplace and pull up the the deal report. We can have an idea.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Now I'm sort of curious.
Veronica Adams: That's a good idea, actually.
Heather Roberts: and Let's do a little
Veronica Adams: Wrap our heads around how big the deal was, at least.
Heather Roberts: searcher, searcheroo.
Veronica Adams: Oh, good grief. I...
Heather Roberts: Of
Veronica Adams: I have no problem with people demonstrating moral and ethical flaws in characters as part of plot and character development, right? Like that's normal.
Heather Roberts: course, yeah.
Veronica Adams: It's human. Um, art should not be un-messy. And who among us doesn't love a morally gray hero, right? Like, um...
Veronica Adams: The question is how morally gray and on what moral grounds is he gray or she for that matter. But like outright racism and then standing by it outright xenophobia and then standing by it.
Veronica Adams: And the publisher looking the other way. i mean Yikes on bikes.
Heather Roberts: oh Yeah, I know. Oh, this is why I wasn't signed in. I'm like, why can't I?
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Too many tabs again.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Come on.
Veronica Adams: For sure.
Heather Roberts: This is crazy. um Ah, I get a Parkinson's. But yeah, this is this is a behaving badly situation for sure.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: um this is not something that you ever want to find yourself in as an author.
Veronica Adams: Mm-hmm.
Heather Roberts: Like, absolutely not. Okay, now there's news, lunch, do-do-do-do.
Heather Roberts: I'm trying to find the actual...
Heather Roberts: i can't find it. I can just find their romance author Poole's book after online criticism article.
Veronica Adams: Of course, of course.
Heather Roberts: And then there's thing about her bestseller history for Grimstone, Monarch, and Kingmaker's graduation. um i should have done that before the podcast, but anyway...
Heather Roberts: but
Veronica Adams: a We were so taken aback by the content of this episode that preparation out the window.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Just wild. So, mean, and it's not that big of a deal, let's be honest. um
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: So, yeah.
Heather Roberts: ah Also, by the way, in that book with the master slave line, she then proceeds to have the black female main character strip bear bent over and have her whipped with a belt.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: It's just really, really poor taste. Really, really poor taste.
Veronica Adams: Listen, i have I have marketed many a spanking romance, but like in the context of an interracial couple where she's already said something as salacious as he can be my master.
Heather Roberts: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: And she's the character of color in that relationship.
Heather Roberts: oh, it's just really not good. It's really not good.
Veronica Adams: No, no, no, no.
Heather Roberts: And the fact that, I mean, so I think that that was an indie published book that she wrote that in, but not the point. why might But worse...
Veronica Adams: One would hope it was anyway.
Heather Roberts: Right. It's worse that Bloom Books had a sensitivity read. it was flagged as questionable content and then proceeded to be published anyway or planned to be published anyway.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: I mean, they made the ARCs.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Heather Roberts: They were going to do it, but for the outcry the questionable visas.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Oh, bless. ah so I mean, questionable, Frank.
Veronica Adams: Questionable authoring, okay. Like...
Heather Roberts: People, I mean, get your do a sensitivity read. If you are at all concerned, if you are writing a flawed main character, please get a sensitivity read.
Veronica Adams: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Heather Roberts: I mean, there are so many people who are willing to do it, who are professionals in this industry. You know, that's that's what they do. That is part of what they do. It's not obviously usually their only service they offer, but there are plenty of very qualified people who can do a sensitivity read for you.
Heather Roberts: Please get it done.
Veronica Adams: You know, it's almost giving rage bait in a way. Like, let's just see if we can slip this one past everyone involved in the process and see how much buzz it generates for the book.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: like Do you know what i mean? Like, an intentional gamble on putting it out there, publishing it.
Heather Roberts: right
Veronica Adams: And I'm i'm not suggesting that Bloom would be reckless in this way, but like... beyond Sophie's part and again total speculation here but it it really feels like maybe it's an attempt to work things in that will get any sort of attention and publicity for the book because you know all all presses good press they say right there's no no there's really no such thing as bad publicity if they're talking about you you're doing something right
Heather Roberts: Yeah. say
Heather Roberts: That's what they say. i mean, other people are saying that this is very MAGA coded and that, yeah.
Veronica Adams: for for sure
Heather Roberts: And that she is a MAGA supporter, but she hasn't posted anything publicly to confirm or deny that.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Heather Roberts: um i will say that I have seen a photo of her and her husband in full out, Americana garb a la, you know, MAGA.
Veronica Adams: Non-MAGA folks can be patriots too.
Heather Roberts: Absolutely, non-MAGA folks can indeed wear American flag merchandise, but usually don't wear it head to toe.
Veronica Adams: Well...
Heather Roberts: Usually. i'm not I'm not saying everything.
Veronica Adams: How long has it been since we had the conversation as a society and a country about the flag code?
Heather Roberts: Yeah, apparently that's just out the window. i mean...
Veronica Adams: Well, it's rules for V and not for me. They want to and you know, they they want to talk about disrespecting the flag when it's a person of color doing it, but they're allowed to walk around with, you know, whatever.
Heather Roberts: yeah
Veronica Adams: In, dressed whatever.
Heather Roberts: that's
Veronica Adams: And also a flag code violation, but we're not going to discuss that because that's white privilege.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: And listen, does that mean that she absolutely supports MAGA?
Veronica Adams: Of course not.
Heather Roberts: No, of course not.
Veronica Adams: we We have no way of knowing that. She's never made a statement on it.
Heather Roberts: now what No. um But that is what some people are using as evidence to say that she is.
Veronica Adams: the The optics suggest that she is part of a certain demographic.
Heather Roberts: Yes. um But, you know, at the same time, she also has public
Veronica Adams: Okay.
Veronica Adams: would say the lighting suggests that she's part of a certain demographic if you ask me. Okay.
Heather Roberts: But she's also, you know, sitting here now and apologizing to people she's harmed and claiming she wants to do better, which is not generally um of the MAGA thing.
Veronica Adams: Right. Right.
Veronica Adams: No, that's an excellent point, actually.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: um Oftentimes, when faced with accountability in the form of cancel culture, and I'm using air quotes for those of you who are not watching us on video right now, for people who
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: It is air quotes. Yeah.
Veronica Adams: who are
Heather Roberts: The records to reflect counselor.
Veronica Adams: Yes. ah People who are allergic to accountability and like to label it cancel culture it often don't issue apologies, especially ones that are this thoughtful. And I'm, you know.
Heather Roberts: Pieces says of it anyway.
Veronica Adams: Okay. Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: in In total, I've seen worse ones, you know.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. We have seen worse ones. Absolutely. think.
Veronica Adams: And I think there is an attempt here to be responsible for the impact.
Heather Roberts: I mean, I think of Jamie McGuire and I'm using her as a because she is very out loud and proud mega.
Veronica Adams: Oh,
Veronica Adams: Yeah, Ms.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: Double Down on accountability there, yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. And so she has been called out many times for problematic pieces of her work. And she continues to double down and double down and triple down and quadruple down.
Heather Roberts: And yeah.
Veronica Adams: Which is her prerogative.
Heather Roberts: It is her prerogative, but that is not what is happening here.
Veronica Adams: I mean...
Heather Roberts: So at least we have that.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: Okay. At least there is an effort here, whether it's motivated by money
Veronica Adams: Well, I think...
Heather Roberts: are motivated by a real, you know, want to do better. I don't
Veronica Adams: Right. future Future behavior is the only predictor of the veracity of her statement here. If if she never writes another completely salacious, hateful thing again, great.
Veronica Adams: I think we can collectively, maybe not individually, but collectively assume that she is sincere about this apology.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: But if it continues to happen, if this kind of stuff continues to be threaded throughout her future novels, well...
Heather Roberts: Right.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Perhaps we can see the transparency of being motivated by continuing to have the access to profit off of an audience who does not feel the way she does ah about politics and social issues.
Heather Roberts: Right.
Veronica Adams: 100%.
Heather Roberts: Right. And I feel like why why is this at all being discussed? Well, because right now we very much care, at least most people do, care about putting their money where their mouth is.
Veronica Adams: hundred percent
Heather Roberts: early um So, you know, people don't want to support people that have problematic viewpoints. And it is very hard to, you know, walk back something like this.
Heather Roberts: Do I think generally she will be financially harmed? um no Overall, I mean, this contract, notwithstanding, this contract might harm her.
Veronica Adams: right Yeah.
Heather Roberts: But as far as readership and things like that, the average person doesn't follow things this closely. They just don't. they They go on Amazon and they search her books and they read them.
Heather Roberts: So I don't know if that's going to have any sort of actual detrimental effect to her bottom line.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yeah. her Her brand is so widely recognized at this point and her following is large enough that there will be a significant portion of her readers who never hear about this.
Heather Roberts: Correct. Correct. some who do and don't care.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely. Also their prerogative.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, we we've seen that time and time again.
Veronica Adams: I'm not suggesting that the tent has narrowed itself to where there are no readers who disagree with her. I would expect that there are a ah very large percentage of readers who probably do agree with her.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: I doubt they're the majority.
Heather Roberts: Right. Right.
Veronica Adams: um But yeah, absolutely.
Heather Roberts: I'm just saying because I've seen it time and time again with authors who do things that are questionable or downright terrible and they suffer no real actual harm, like back financially.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yes. They're, they're put through the social media ringer of having to make statements and deal with, you know, hateful comments or angry comments or comments demanding accountability.
Veronica Adams: And that's the extent of it. They take some Tums or some Pepto-Bismol, get off the internet for two weeks and they're fine. Nothing else ever happens to them.
Heather Roberts: yeah And then they come back and they're back at it.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: so Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yes.
Heather Roberts: So it remains be seen what happens here.
Veronica Adams: So,
Heather Roberts: i'll be interested to see what happens with that Bloom deal if it ends up you know being actually released later.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, and they go ahead and go back to it.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. and
Veronica Adams: ah Now, you know, Bloom did confirm that they canceled the book and the series and won't publish it later on down the road.
Heather Roberts: yeah
Veronica Adams: So maybe she shops it elsewhere. Maybe she indie publishes it. Maybe.
Heather Roberts: I feel like she's going to indie publish it. I don't think another publisher is going to touch it with this type of, you know, taint.
Veronica Adams: Right. and Put it. you put it on the You put it on the back burner. You rebrand it.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: You give it a new title. You wait.
Heather Roberts: Oh, 100%. It is not going to be released as Sparrow and Bump.
Veronica Adams: Yeah, no.
Heather Roberts: Not in Jansen Hell.
Veronica Adams: You give it a new name. Give the series a new name. Change a few things around. Indie release it.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Maybe remove the salacious language from it so it's not identifiable in the future.
Heather Roberts: You would think. You would think.
Veronica Adams: i mean...
Heather Roberts: At the very least, that hopefully is what's going to happen here.
Veronica Adams: I don't know. We're making jokes about slavery in our interracial romance novels.
Heather Roberts: yeah that's real bad. and That's that it's really bad. and
Veronica Adams: I just...
Heather Roberts: I know. These are all things not to do, friends.
Veronica Adams: I expect this stuff from my 85-year-old uncle, not a commercially successful romance novelist in the year 2025.
Heather Roberts: Right. Right. Right.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: come now. You know... come on now
Heather Roberts: of
Veronica Adams: you know
Heather Roberts: We are living in wild times, wild times.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: So we're we're keeping our eyes on things, especially things that affect our industry, such as paper pricing. Right.
Veronica Adams: Indeed. Mm-hmm.
Heather Roberts: That is incredibly important to our industry. Right. and tariffs, because i don't know if many people know this. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably do.
Heather Roberts: But special editions of books are not made in the United States.
Veronica Adams: No, 90, what, 5, 8% of them are printed in China? Mm-hmm.
Heather Roberts: Yeah, or the UK or Italy.
Veronica Adams: That's right.
Heather Roberts: um i Yeah. If you go on to, um what is it? Book Vault. They're one of the number one places that you can go and get.
Veronica Adams: Produce bespoke editions of your, yeah, yep.
Heather Roberts: and so jens You can't even get a quote for a printing of a special edition in the United States.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: it You can get it one in the UK and then they'll they'll ship it to you.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: um So yeah, that is...
Veronica Adams: I do you think Book Vault's working on printing in the US. They just haven't been able to get that arm up and running. And now...
Heather Roberts: And now who knows? Because why would they?
Veronica Adams: And... and yeah Now we're............
Heather Roberts: Because they're going to have to import the paper and stuff. Paper comes from trees. okay we don't eat i but like
Veronica Adams: it
Heather Roberts: We don't have enough trees in this country for manufacturing to support all of the things that we need trees for, for that.
Veronica Adams: Well, I mean, that depends on who you ask. Some people will tell you the national parks are full of trees.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Are we really, so we're cutting down our national forest.
Veronica Adams: Girl, don't, I mean, come on now. look Look around you.
Heather Roberts: I know.
Veronica Adams: It's a possibility.
Heather Roberts: I'd look at the trees outside of my window and it just would be awful if they were cut down.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: Like it would be absolutely terrible if they would be cut down.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: ah One, because one, I mean, I like the woods, but also privacy portions, right? Like how awful would it be to just be able to see straight back into like other people?
Heather Roberts: I don't like that.
Veronica Adams: ask Ask the folks who live in Kansas and Nebraska, they'll tell you.
Heather Roberts: I know. i know. and that's one of the reasons Vermont is very much, they they have a lot of conservation, a lot.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: There's this thing.
Veronica Adams: Right. But with respect to our paper issues, I put nothing past the current administration.
Heather Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.
Veronica Adams: With respect to any issue we run up against, I put nothing past the current administration.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Like the the old way of doing things, the the um the law and order, as it were, out out the window.
Veronica Adams: You know, like we we just don't. There's a mismatch and alignment of values here. We are raping and pillaging and burning things to the ground for the benefit of the people at the top. And that's just the way it's going to be for at least the next two, if not four or more years, depending on what other crazy shenanigans happen.
Heather Roberts: yeah
Heather Roberts: So we're going to watch this because this is going very interesting.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Heather Roberts: But yeah, we haven't seen any sort of massive spikes yet, yet in pricing.
Veronica Adams: Right.
Heather Roberts: But it is ah it's a major concern.
Veronica Adams: For sure.
Heather Roberts: These shares have just, you know, started. So we'll see.
Veronica Adams: yeah
Heather Roberts: But until then, we'll keep an eye on things.
Veronica Adams: Yes. Or until the next absolutely insane thing happens.
Heather Roberts: and we're We're doing pretty good with our two podcasts a month. And we're trying to, yeah bring some interesting speakers on.
Veronica Adams: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Yep.
Heather Roberts: um Yeah,
Veronica Adams: This new format, new pace.
Heather Roberts: I'm digging it. So hopefully you're getting value ah out of it as well. And we will continue to dive into legal issues as well as, you know, social ones that affect our industry.
Veronica Adams: social ones.
Heather Roberts: Yeah.
Veronica Adams: Absolutely.
Heather Roberts: so Stick with us and we will talk to you next time on Proport Take.
Veronica Adams: right.
