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S3 Ep45: Authors Behaving Badly...Again
45 Plays1 month ago
Heather and Veronica break down the recent controversy surrounding the release of Sophie Lark's SPARROW AND VINE. What happened? What can you learn from this?
A podcast from 1852 Media.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Heather Roberts
hi welcome back to For Books Sake. I'm Heather Roberts.
00:00:04
Veronica Adams
I am Veronica Adams and we are 1852 Media.
00:00:18
Heather Roberts
All right, we have not been on in a minute. So there has definitely been some things that have happened in the book community that we could talk about.
00:00:27
Veronica Adams
Oh boy, haven't there.
Controversy over 'Sparrow and Vine'
00:00:29
Heather Roberts
There have been, uh, we're just going to pick probably the the biggest one that happened and and talk about that.
00:00:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:00:36
Heather Roberts
And, uh, that would be Sophie Lark and her books, Sparrow and Vine that has been pulled from publication now.
00:00:43
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:00:46
Heather Roberts
So that's, yeah, absolutely crazy.
00:00:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:00:49
Heather Roberts
So what happened? Okay. Okay. Sophie Lark had an upcoming book called Sparrow and Vine. It is being published by Sourcebooks, well, Bloom Books, which is an imprint of Sourcebooks.
00:00:59
Veronica Adams
Bloom. Yeah. An imprint. Yeah.
00:01:02
Heather Roberts
And it um was scheduled, ARCs were out for it. So it was scheduled to be released.
00:01:07
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:01:08
Heather Roberts
It has not yet released.
00:01:10
Veronica Adams
Blows my mind that we got to the arc phase on this before all of this went down, by the way. Just putting that out there.
00:01:14
Heather Roberts
Yes, true. While ARC readers were reading the book, as they do, The whole goal of ARCs is to get people talking about a book.
00:01:25
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:01:25
Heather Roberts
well Well, this did just not in the way that she likely intended.
00:01:32
Heather Roberts
Now, as arc readers were reading, there are two specific snippets, lines in the book that that that people found problematic.
00:01:39
Veronica Adams
yeah
Writing Flawed Characters Responsibly
00:01:41
Heather Roberts
ah One line says, i was inspired by Elon Musk. I use his five-step design process, which is, i mean, a bit tone deaf for the current political landscape.
00:01:53
Heather Roberts
But otherwise, i mean, depending upon who you write your audience your intended is, less problematic than the next one that said, yeah, the next one that is quote, but shouldn't there be a crew of people with questionable work visas picking these grapes for us?
00:02:02
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:02:04
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:02:14
Veronica Adams
Now, that's not Sophie's opinion necessarily, but she wrote that as a line of dialogue from one of the characters.
00:02:18
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:02:22
Veronica Adams
I believe ah ah either speaking or in written communication, one of the character these are a characters' words in the novel. So um not necessarily her opinion, but also where the hell did that come from?
00:02:30
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:02:37
Veronica Adams
Like, it it it's in the brain somewhere, right?
00:02:38
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:02:39
Veronica Adams
Like, she thought it, thought it enough to write it.
00:02:41
Heather Roberts
Yes. and And usually authors will use, ah you know, but if if a character has a bad opinion about something, that absolutely fine.
00:02:50
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:02:52
Heather Roberts
You can write things like that in a book. However, it is off. It's the author's job to then challenge that with another character or other something, some other device.
00:03:05
Veronica Adams
A character development arc where something happens and we process this bad take.
00:03:11
Heather Roberts
Correct.
00:03:11
Veronica Adams
And become i'm either informed or corrected or a better person. Or maybe maybe we stick to our guns and we just end up being one of those not great characters, right?
00:03:16
Heather Roberts
recognize that.
00:03:22
Veronica Adams
Like...
00:03:23
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And, but you as the reader need to realize that this person is a not great character because of these terrible beliefs that they hold.
00:03:24
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:03:29
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:03:32
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:03:32
Heather Roberts
And that is not what happened in this book.
00:03:35
Veronica Adams
Questionable visas.
00:03:35
Heather Roberts
um
00:03:37
Veronica Adams
Questionable visas.
00:03:38
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:03:38
Veronica Adams
I just...
00:03:38
Heather Roberts
um Yeah.
00:03:40
Veronica Adams
I just...
00:03:42
Heather Roberts
It's just, well, hold on. What's the exact line again? Where is it? I have it.
00:03:46
Veronica Adams
the The direct quote is, shouldn't yeah shouldn't there be a crew of people with questionable work visas picking these grapes for us?
00:03:48
Heather Roberts
Questionable work visas.
00:03:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah. So what happened?
00:03:59
Veronica Adams
I mean, maybe we should. That's how our economy has worked up to this point, right? And now we are about to experiment with how our economy is going without these people in it?
00:04:06
Heather Roberts
o
00:04:08
Veronica Adams
Like, okay.
00:04:09
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:04:11
Veronica Adams
um it's hard to argue with the factual basis necessarily the hate the the tone of hate is the racism is
00:04:18
Heather Roberts
But obviously bad
00:04:25
Heather Roberts
cake.
Author's Apology and Industry Critique
00:04:26
Heather Roberts
So
00:04:27
Veronica Adams
xenophobia is
00:04:28
Veronica Adams
oh
00:04:30
Heather Roberts
she issued a statement on Instagram that she posted on Instagram.
00:04:33
Veronica Adams
yeah that she did
00:04:36
Heather Roberts
So I'm going to read it in total because I feel like people are picking, you know, snippets and and things like that.
00:04:43
Heather Roberts
I want to, context is important.
00:04:43
Veronica Adams
Context is important.
00:04:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Let's let's let's hear the whole thing.
00:04:47
Heather Roberts
Yeah. So I'm going to read the whole thing. going to get out a couple tabs on my desktop so that I can have a better experience over here.
00:04:58
Heather Roberts
ah
00:04:58
Veronica Adams
got too many tabs, y'all.
00:05:00
Heather Roberts
y'all. I have so many tabs. It is wild. Okay. Okay. I want to start by saying how much I appreciate this community. Your passion, support, and willingness to engage in meaningful conversations have always meant the world to me.
00:05:14
Heather Roberts
That's why it's so important for me to address something I got wrong. Okay. We're starting out strong.
00:05:19
Veronica Adams
That's pretty strong.
00:05:19
Heather Roberts
Okay.
00:05:20
Heather Roberts
That's pretty strong. but We're okay with that.
00:05:20
Veronica Adams
That's pretty strong.
00:05:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:23
Heather Roberts
It has been brought to my attention already a problem. In my opinion, you wrote this.
00:05:29
Veronica Adams
I'm passing.
00:05:29
Heather Roberts
It shouldn't have been.
00:05:31
Heather Roberts
to not be It is brought to my attention.
00:05:31
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:32
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:05:34
Heather Roberts
You wrote the thing. Okay. ah It has been brought to my attention that certain lines in Sparrow and Vine were hurtful. Reading your messages and hearing your perspectives over the past 24 hours has been humbling, and I want to acknowledge the pain my words have caused.
00:05:51
Heather Roberts
I am truly sorry. My intention was to craft and demonstrate a flawed main character, but instead I wrote dialogue that read as attacking to a community that I care about very much.
00:06:06
Veronica Adams
Hmm. Hmm.
00:06:08
Heather Roberts
I know...
00:06:10
Veronica Adams
I'm having trouble squaring that, right? Like, the the intention is the flawed main character, but the impact is something hurtful that a flawed main character would do?
00:06:12
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:06:18
Heather Roberts
Being racist.
00:06:23
Veronica Adams
Like...
00:06:26
Heather Roberts
You can have a, and like we said, you can have a flawed main character, but also coming back, it is very challenging to have a redemption arc for a character to come back from racism.
00:06:26
Veronica Adams
Hmm.
00:06:26
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:06:29
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:06:41
Veronica Adams
For sure. ah
00:06:43
Heather Roberts
how Yeah.
00:06:43
Veronica Adams
In the context of today's society, if you're writing a modern contemporary novel set in contemporary times, 100%.
00:06:51
Heather Roberts
Correct.
00:06:52
Veronica Adams
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:53
Heather Roberts
So that's, ah yeah if your if your character is flawed, you can have them be flawed about a variety of things, but you chose the racist comment for them to be flawed.
00:06:59
Veronica Adams
sir
00:07:03
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:07:04
Heather Roberts
So that's that's the struggle I deal with. It's the choice, right? that
00:07:08
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:07:09
Heather Roberts
Okay, next next bit. During the editing process, Bloom, her publisher, recommended removing these lines and I made the wrong choice in keeping them.
00:07:21
Heather Roberts
I now understand that impact matters more than intent and I regret that my words caused harm. Please don't blame boom Bloom for my mistakes. I read that as Bloom, please don't cancel my book deal.
00:07:42
Veronica Adams
Oh, that's the cynical approach. And perhaps not too far off the mark in this case, but like in the light most favorable to Sophie, ah that that's a solid, state that that's a solid portion of the statement. There's some accountability there, right? Like, and also
00:07:59
Heather Roberts
Sure.
00:08:00
Veronica Adams
um so um a definitive position that the publisher in this case is sensitive to these issues
00:08:10
Heather Roberts
My, yeah.
00:08:10
Veronica Adams
and wanted her to take a different approach here. And it's it's all on her that the approach that was taken was taken. You know, nobody else had taken this but her.
00:08:20
Heather Roberts
i I'm a little, yeah, I agree with that. But I'm also, I'm a little floored here because i have heard publishers not you know not letting books go forward.
00:08:32
Heather Roberts
I've not just heard, but like I have been in such, like I've helped authors where authors want to write specifically X and the publisher says, no, I'm not, we're not moving forward if you do that.
00:08:32
Veronica Adams
Sure.
00:08:33
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:41
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:08:45
Veronica Adams
right
00:08:46
Heather Roberts
yeah. Sorry. Bloom could have taken hard line approach here and said, no, you have to take that out. But they chose not to.
00:08:57
Heather Roberts
So I um and don't know what really happened there. this is a little of odd to me. It's a little strange that Bloom would identify these as problematic lines.
00:09:10
Heather Roberts
And I believe they did a sensitivity read. The sensitivity reader came back and deemed these lines problematic. And then Bloom presented that to Sophie. And Sophie said, I want to keep them in. And Bloom said, okay.
00:09:26
Heather Roberts
that's That's concerning also.
00:09:29
Veronica Adams
No, I absolutely agree with that. 100%. You're absolutely right. The publisher has the prerogative of saying this is a hard limit.
00:09:39
Veronica Adams
We are not going to distribute, produce, publish anything that approaches this line.
00:09:44
Heather Roberts
um
00:09:48
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:09:50
Veronica Adams
And they didn't.
00:09:51
Heather Roberts
And they didn't. So, okay. Now, now to the whopper of a paragraph that everybody is losing their minds
Questioning Timing and Awareness
00:09:58
Heather Roberts
over. Okay.
00:09:59
Veronica Adams
You mean we haven't gotten there yet?
00:10:00
Heather Roberts
We haven't gotten there yet. Here we go. I wrote this back in the summer of 2024 and a lot has changed in the world since then.
00:10:13
Heather Roberts
particularly in regard to the fate of immigrants worldwide and certain public figures. Some things I would write differently now. So that's exactly what I'm going to do.
00:10:25
Heather Roberts
I'm sorry.
00:10:27
Veronica Adams
What has changed since the summer of 2024, Sophie?
00:10:28
Heather Roberts
is right?
00:10:29
Veronica Adams
What changed? Yeah. what what what has changed
00:10:32
Heather Roberts
What?
00:10:35
Heather Roberts
I'm pretty sure immigrants were also ah the chopping block in 2024. twenty twenty four One, also, this is just a bad take, period. It doesn't matter. like If you wrote this past 1995, this is a bad take.
00:10:51
Heather Roberts
like I mean, I just picked a random date, but I'm just saying like this is an antiquated
00:10:57
Veronica Adams
Is
00:11:02
Heather Roberts
view of immigration and immigrants and all of that.
00:11:07
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:11:08
Heather Roberts
But to say that summer of 2024, the summer, the summer, we are months past the summer of 2024.
00:11:17
Veronica Adams
this coded as in like, I wrote this when we still thought Joe Biden was running for president? Like, it like what does that mean? The summer of 2024?
00:11:25
Heather Roberts
I don't know. Right. We wrote this before Donald Trump was elected again. i don't know before. the you know mass deportations were a thing? what Before what?
00:11:37
Veronica Adams
Like before the RNC, when there was still a snowball's chance in hell that Nikki Haley was going to be the Republican candidate instead of Donald Trump. Like what? I really don't understand what difference it makes that you wrote this nine months ago instead of six weeks.
00:11:52
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:11:52
Veronica Adams
Like.
00:11:54
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Even if you said two years, I don't think that would have made a difference.
00:11:59
Veronica Adams
No. No.
00:11:59
Heather Roberts
This is just, it is problematic. It is very problematic. So, all right, let's continue with the statement.
Past Works and Sensitivity Issues
00:12:07
Heather Roberts
Words mean nothing without action.
00:12:10
Heather Roberts
So I'm pausing this book and this series for some rewrites to ensure that my work doesn't contribute to harm. i will also be listening more closely to our sensitivity readers and taking additional steps to educate myself on responsible storytelling.
00:12:26
Heather Roberts
And to those who took the time to share their feedback, thank you. To those I have hurt, I'm very sorry. i hope I can earn your trust back in the future. Love Sophie. And that is it.
00:12:42
Heather Roberts
I mean, as far as statements go, she, she did the statement. She had someone help her write this.
00:12:48
Heather Roberts
There's no doubt about that, bye that line, whoever she helped had help her write it, unless they told her to take it out and she decided to keep it in because that's what she does that.
00:12:48
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:12:58
Heather Roberts
I wrote this back in the summer of 2024 line is a wild one
00:13:04
Veronica Adams
i i don't understand the context for diminishing the harmful impact by making the timeline at all relevant to this. Like,
00:13:14
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:13:16
Veronica Adams
Somehow it was not as bad as it is today because you wrote it nine months ago. like in, in, in what world?
00:13:24
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah. So since.
00:13:28
Veronica Adams
Can you imagine if this had been about like picking cotton instead of grapes?
00:13:34
Heather Roberts
Right. Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:13:42
Veronica Adams
My mind is just blown. Like, like i I am like the cursor spinning. My computer is just like trying to load, looking for something redeeming here. And it's, I got nothing to grasp onto.
00:13:55
Veronica Adams
This is, oh
00:13:59
Heather Roberts
Well, and so here's the thing. Now people, now there's a spotlight on Sophie, right?
00:14:03
Veronica Adams
Right, right.
00:14:04
Heather Roberts
So people are like, Hey, I've talked about other problematic lines that she has had in the past, but nobody wanted to pay attention to me. So I'm going to talk about them now.
00:14:16
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:14:16
Heather Roberts
And there is a line in a book that she wrote. I believe she indie published this one.
00:14:24
Veronica Adams
Uh-huh.
00:14:25
Heather Roberts
There's, i don't know if have you i don't know if you've heard this one. um She wrote a book with a black female main character um and a white um hero, right?
00:14:31
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:14:35
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:14:36
Heather Roberts
Male character where she has the black female main character say, quote, he can be my master and I'll be his slave if that's what it takes to get him back again.
00:14:37
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:14:52
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:14:55
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:14:57
Heather Roberts
No. So this is not... This is not an isolated incident.
00:15:06
Veronica Adams
What in the gone with the wind is going on in Sophie Lark's office? Like, what?
00:15:12
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:14
Veronica Adams
The red flags are always there, right? Like, we just don't see them.
00:15:18
Heather Roberts
Right. Or people reap but people do see them, but nobody, people ignore them or ignore people that want to talk out about them or speak out about them and and other type of behavior. Mm-hmm.
00:15:30
Veronica Adams
Now, you know what it is? it's a It's a lack of diversity in leadership and ownership of this community. There are still too many, I'm sorry, there are still too many white women with internalized racism and misogyny for that matter, who are making decisions about what is popular and what we're going to platform and who is you know, who who the MVPs are.
00:15:52
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:15:52
Veronica Adams
Period.
00:15:55
Veronica Adams
Oh, this is gross.
00:15:58
Heather Roberts
It's gross. So in, in my, I believe that, I mean, i know that she was saying she paused the books and all of that, but I'm pretty sure Bloom at this point has pulled it out of the deal.
00:16:09
Veronica Adams
i would I would think they'd have to, right?
00:16:11
Heather Roberts
I'm pretty sure they did. Which, just an FYI, if you're an author in this situation, this is terrible. Because if this happens, you likely have to pay back your advance that you have received for this title.
00:16:23
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:16:26
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:16:26
Heather Roberts
um And I think this was a series. And so she probably was getting, you know, installments at least. But I can't imagine that this was a small advance
00:16:33
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:16:36
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:16:37
Heather Roberts
because she was you know a very huge author, a very popular author.
00:16:42
Veronica Adams
Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:43
Heather Roberts
So I can't imagine it was all that small. I mean, I could go into Publishers Marketplace and pull up the the deal report. We can have an idea.
00:16:53
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:54
Heather Roberts
Now I'm sort of curious.
00:16:55
Veronica Adams
That's a good idea, actually.
00:16:57
Heather Roberts
and Let's do a little
00:16:58
Veronica Adams
Wrap our heads around how big the deal was, at least.
00:17:01
Heather Roberts
searcher, searcheroo.
00:17:04
Veronica Adams
Oh, good grief. I...
00:17:08
Heather Roberts
Of
00:17:09
Veronica Adams
I have no problem with people demonstrating moral and ethical flaws in characters as part of plot and character development, right? Like that's normal.
00:17:19
Heather Roberts
course, yeah.
00:17:21
Veronica Adams
It's human. Um, art should not be un-messy. And who among us doesn't love a morally gray hero, right? Like, um...
00:17:37
Veronica Adams
The question is how morally gray and on what moral grounds is he gray or she for that matter. But like outright racism and then standing by it outright xenophobia and then standing by it.
00:17:51
Veronica Adams
And the publisher looking the other way. i mean Yikes on bikes.
00:17:57
Heather Roberts
oh Yeah, I know. Oh, this is why I wasn't signed in. I'm like, why can't I?
00:18:02
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:18:05
Veronica Adams
Too many tabs again.
00:18:07
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Come on.
00:18:10
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:18:12
Heather Roberts
This is crazy. um Ah, I get a Parkinson's. But yeah, this is this is a behaving badly situation for sure.
00:18:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:18:24
Heather Roberts
um this is not something that you ever want to find yourself in as an author.
00:18:29
Veronica Adams
Mm-hmm.
00:18:31
Heather Roberts
Like, absolutely not. Okay, now there's news, lunch, do-do-do-do.
00:18:41
Heather Roberts
I'm trying to find the actual...
00:18:46
Heather Roberts
i can't find it. I can just find their romance author Poole's book after online criticism article.
00:18:51
Veronica Adams
Of course, of course.
00:18:54
Heather Roberts
And then there's thing about her bestseller history for Grimstone, Monarch, and Kingmaker's graduation. um i should have done that before the podcast, but anyway...
00:19:09
Heather Roberts
but
00:19:10
Veronica Adams
a We were so taken aback by the content of this episode that preparation out the window.
00:19:16
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Just wild. So, mean, and it's not that big of a deal, let's be honest. um
00:19:21
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:19:22
Heather Roberts
So, yeah.
00:19:26
Heather Roberts
ah Also, by the way, in that book with the master slave line, she then proceeds to have the black female main character strip bear bent over and have her whipped with a belt.
00:19:30
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:19:39
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:42
Heather Roberts
It's just really, really poor taste. Really, really poor taste.
00:19:46
Veronica Adams
Listen, i have I have marketed many a spanking romance, but like in the context of an interracial couple where she's already said something as salacious as he can be my master.
00:19:51
Heather Roberts
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:20:03
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:20:04
Veronica Adams
And she's the character of color in that relationship.
00:20:08
Heather Roberts
oh, it's just really not good. It's really not good.
00:20:09
Veronica Adams
No, no, no, no.
00:20:10
Heather Roberts
And the fact that, I mean, so I think that that was an indie published book that she wrote that in, but not the point. why might But worse...
00:20:18
Veronica Adams
One would hope it was anyway.
00:20:19
Heather Roberts
Right. It's worse that Bloom Books had a sensitivity read. it was flagged as questionable content and then proceeded to be published anyway or planned to be published anyway.
00:20:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:20:33
Heather Roberts
I mean, they made the ARCs.
00:20:33
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:20:35
Heather Roberts
They were going to do it, but for the outcry the questionable visas.
00:20:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:20:42
Heather Roberts
Oh, bless. ah so I mean, questionable, Frank.
00:20:43
Veronica Adams
Questionable authoring, okay. Like...
00:20:47
Heather Roberts
People, I mean, get your do a sensitivity read. If you are at all concerned, if you are writing a flawed main character,
The Role of Sensitivity Reads
00:20:54
Veronica Adams
Yes. Yes, absolutely.
00:20:54
Heather Roberts
please get a sensitivity read.
00:20:56
Heather Roberts
I mean, there are so many people who are willing to do it, who are professionals in this industry. You know, that's that's what they do. That is part of what they do. It's not obviously usually their only service they offer, but there are plenty of very qualified people who can do a sensitivity read for you.
00:21:14
Heather Roberts
Please get it done.
00:21:16
Veronica Adams
You know, it's almost giving rage bait in a way. Like, let's just see if we can slip this one past everyone involved in the process and see how much buzz it generates for the book.
00:21:19
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:21:26
Veronica Adams
like Do you know what i mean? Like, an intentional gamble on putting it out there, publishing it.
00:21:30
Heather Roberts
right
00:21:32
Veronica Adams
And I'm i'm not suggesting that Bloom would be reckless in this way, but like... beyond Sophie's part and again total speculation here but it it really feels like maybe it's an attempt to work things in that will get any sort of attention and publicity for the book because you know all all presses good press they say right there's no no there's really no such thing as bad publicity if they're talking about you you're doing something right
00:21:49
Heather Roberts
Yeah. say
00:21:58
Heather Roberts
That's what they say. i mean, other people are saying that this is very MAGA coded and that, yeah.
00:22:04
Veronica Adams
for for sure
00:22:06
Heather Roberts
And that she is a MAGA supporter, but she hasn't posted anything publicly to confirm or deny that.
00:22:12
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:22:13
Heather Roberts
um i will say that I have seen a photo of her and her husband in full out, Americana garb a la, you know, MAGA.
00:22:26
Veronica Adams
Non-MAGA folks can be patriots too.
00:22:28
Heather Roberts
Absolutely, non-MAGA folks can indeed wear American flag merchandise, but usually don't wear it head to toe.
00:22:37
Veronica Adams
Well...
00:22:37
Heather Roberts
Usually. i'm not I'm not saying everything.
00:22:40
Veronica Adams
How long has it been since we had the conversation as a society and a country about the flag code?
00:22:46
Heather Roberts
Yeah, apparently that's just out the window. i mean...
00:22:49
Veronica Adams
Well, it's rules for V and not for me. They want to and you know, they they want to talk about disrespecting the flag when it's a person of color doing it, but they're allowed to walk around with, you know, whatever.
00:23:00
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:23:01
Veronica Adams
In, dressed whatever.
00:23:01
Heather Roberts
that's
00:23:03
Veronica Adams
And also a flag code violation, but we're not going to discuss that because that's white privilege.
00:23:09
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:23:10
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:23:10
Heather Roberts
And listen, does that mean that she absolutely supports MAGA?
00:23:13
Veronica Adams
Of course not.
00:23:13
Heather Roberts
No, of course not.
00:23:14
Veronica Adams
we We have no way of knowing that. She's never made a statement on it.
00:23:15
Heather Roberts
now what No. um But that is what some people are using as evidence to say that she is.
00:23:21
Veronica Adams
the The optics suggest that she is part of a certain demographic.
00:23:25
Heather Roberts
Yes. um But, you know, at the same time, she also has public
00:23:27
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:23:30
Veronica Adams
would say the lighting suggests that she's part of a certain demographic if you ask me. Okay.
00:23:36
Heather Roberts
But she's also, you know, sitting here now and apologizing to people she's harmed and claiming she wants to do better, which is not generally um of the MAGA thing.
00:23:41
Veronica Adams
Right. Right.
00:23:48
Veronica Adams
No, that's an excellent point, actually.
00:23:51
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:23:51
Veronica Adams
um Oftentimes, when faced with accountability in the form of cancel culture, and I'm using air quotes for those of you who are not watching us on video right now, for people who
00:23:58
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:01
Heather Roberts
It is air quotes. Yeah.
00:24:04
Heather Roberts
The records to reflect counselor.
00:24:05
Veronica Adams
who are
00:24:07
Veronica Adams
Yes. ah People who are allergic to accountability and like to label it cancel culture it often don't issue apologies, especially ones that are this thoughtful. And I'm, you know.
00:24:18
Heather Roberts
Pieces says of it anyway.
00:24:20
Veronica Adams
Okay. Yeah.
00:24:21
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:21
Veronica Adams
in In total, I've seen worse ones, you know.
00:24:25
Heather Roberts
Yeah. We have seen worse ones. Absolutely. think.
00:24:28
Veronica Adams
And I think there is an attempt here to be responsible for the impact.
00:24:32
Heather Roberts
I mean, I think of Jamie McGuire and I'm using her as a because she is very out loud and proud mega.
00:24:35
Veronica Adams
Oh,
00:24:40
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:24:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah, Ms.
00:24:41
Veronica Adams
Double Down on accountability there, yeah.
00:24:42
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And so she has been called out many times for problematic pieces of her work. And she continues to double down and double down and triple down and quadruple down.
00:24:53
Heather Roberts
And yeah.
00:24:54
Veronica Adams
Which is her prerogative.
00:24:55
Heather Roberts
It is her prerogative, but that is not what is happening here.
00:24:55
Veronica Adams
I mean...
00:24:58
Heather Roberts
So at least we have that.
00:24:59
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:25:00
Heather Roberts
Okay. At least there is an effort here, whether it's motivated by money
00:25:08
Veronica Adams
Well, I think...
00:25:08
Heather Roberts
are motivated by a real, you know, want to do better. I don't
00:25:14
Veronica Adams
Right. future Future behavior is the only predictor of the veracity of her statement here. If if she never writes another completely salacious, hateful thing again, great.
00:25:27
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:25:27
Veronica Adams
I think we can collectively, maybe not individually, but collectively assume that she is sincere about this apology.
00:25:36
Veronica Adams
But if it continues to happen, if this kind of stuff continues to be threaded throughout her future novels, well...
00:25:38
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:25:42
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:25:43
Veronica Adams
Perhaps we can see the transparency of being motivated by continuing to have the access to profit off of an audience who does not feel the way she does ah about politics and social issues.
00:25:53
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:25:56
Veronica Adams
100%.
00:25:57
Heather Roberts
Right. And I feel like why why is this at all being discussed? Well, because right now we very much care, at least most people do, care about putting their money where their mouth is.
00:26:09
Veronica Adams
hundred percent
00:26:09
Heather Roberts
early um So, you know, people don't want to support people that have problematic viewpoints. And it is very hard to, you know, walk back something like this.
00:26:21
Heather Roberts
Do I think generally she will be financially harmed? um no Overall, I mean, this contract, notwithstanding, this contract might harm her.
00:26:30
Veronica Adams
right Yeah.
00:26:31
Heather Roberts
But as far as readership and things like that, the average person doesn't follow things this closely. They just don't. they They go on Amazon and they search her books and they read them.
00:26:43
Heather Roberts
So I don't know if that's going to have any sort of actual detrimental effect to her bottom line.
00:26:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:49
Veronica Adams
Yeah. her Her brand is so widely recognized at this point and her following is large enough that there will be a significant portion of her readers who never hear about this.
00:26:57
Heather Roberts
Correct. Correct. some who do and don't care.
00:27:02
Veronica Adams
Absolutely. Also their prerogative.
00:27:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we we've seen that time and time again.
00:27:05
Veronica Adams
I'm not suggesting that the tent has narrowed itself to where there are no readers who disagree with her. I would expect that there are a ah very large percentage of readers who probably do agree with her.
00:27:11
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:27:15
Veronica Adams
I doubt they're the majority.
00:27:17
Heather Roberts
Right. Right.
00:27:18
Veronica Adams
um But yeah, absolutely.
00:27:21
Heather Roberts
I'm just saying because I've seen it time and time again with authors who do things that are questionable or downright terrible and they suffer no real actual harm, like back financially.
00:27:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:34
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:27:35
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:27:36
Veronica Adams
Yes. They're, they're put through the social media ringer of having to make statements and deal with, you know, hateful comments or angry comments or comments demanding accountability.
00:27:47
Veronica Adams
And that's the extent of it. They take some Tums or some Pepto-Bismol, get off the internet for two weeks and they're fine. Nothing else ever happens to them.
00:27:55
Heather Roberts
yeah And then they come back and they're back at it.
00:27:59
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:28:00
Heather Roberts
so Yeah.
00:28:01
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:28:02
Heather Roberts
So it remains be seen what happens here.
00:28:03
Veronica Adams
So,
00:28:04
Heather Roberts
i'll be interested to see what happens with that Bloom deal if it ends up you know being actually released later.
00:28:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah, and they go ahead and go back to it.
00:28:12
Heather Roberts
Yeah. and
00:28:14
Veronica Adams
ah Now, you know, Bloom did confirm that they canceled the book and the series and won't publish it later on down the road.
00:28:18
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:28:20
Veronica Adams
So maybe she shops it elsewhere. Maybe she indie publishes it. Maybe.
00:28:24
Heather Roberts
I feel like she's going to indie publish it. I don't think another publisher is going to touch it with this type of, you know, taint.
00:28:29
Veronica Adams
Right. and Put it. you put it on the You put it on the back burner. You rebrand it.
00:28:33
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:28:33
Veronica Adams
You give it a new title. You wait.
00:28:35
Heather Roberts
Oh, 100%. It is not going to be released as Sparrow and Bump.
00:28:37
Veronica Adams
Yeah, no.
00:28:37
Heather Roberts
Not in Jansen Hell.
00:28:38
Veronica Adams
You give it a new name. Give the series a new name. Change a few things around. Indie release it.
00:28:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:28:47
Veronica Adams
Maybe remove the salacious language from it so it's not identifiable in the future.
00:28:51
Heather Roberts
You would think. You would think.
00:28:53
Veronica Adams
i mean...
00:28:55
Heather Roberts
At the very least, that hopefully is what's going to happen here.
00:28:58
Veronica Adams
I don't know. We're making jokes about slavery in our interracial romance novels.
00:29:03
Heather Roberts
yeah that's real bad. and That's that it's really bad. and
00:29:07
Veronica Adams
I just...
00:29:09
Heather Roberts
I know. These are all things not to do, friends.
00:29:13
Veronica Adams
I expect this stuff from my 85-year-old uncle, not a commercially successful romance novelist in the year 2025.
00:29:16
Heather Roberts
Right. Right. Right.
00:29:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:29:23
Veronica Adams
come now. You know... come on now
00:29:25
Heather Roberts
of
00:29:26
Veronica Adams
you know
00:29:27
Heather Roberts
We are living in wild times, wild times.
00:29:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:31
Heather Roberts
So we're we're keeping our eyes on things, especially things that affect our industry, such as paper pricing. Right.
00:29:41
Veronica Adams
Indeed. Mm-hmm.
00:29:41
Heather Roberts
That is incredibly important to our industry. Right. and tariffs, because i don't know if many people know this. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably do.
00:29:53
Heather Roberts
But special editions of books are not made in the United States.
00:29:59
Veronica Adams
No, 90, what, 5, 8% of them are printed in China? Mm-hmm.
00:30:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah, or the UK or Italy.
00:30:08
Veronica Adams
That's right.
00:30:09
Heather Roberts
um i Yeah. If you go on to, um what is it? Book Vault. They're one of the number one places that you can go and get.
00:30:20
Veronica Adams
Produce bespoke editions of your, yeah, yep.
00:30:20
Heather Roberts
and so jens You can't even get a quote for a printing of a special edition in the United States.
00:30:30
Heather Roberts
it You can get it one in the UK and then they'll they'll ship it to you.
00:30:30
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:34
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:35
Heather Roberts
um So yeah, that is...
00:30:37
Veronica Adams
I do you think Book Vault's working on printing in the US. They just haven't been able to get that arm up and running. And now...
00:30:43
Heather Roberts
And now who knows? Because why would they?
00:30:45
Veronica Adams
And... and yeah Now we're............
00:30:47
Heather Roberts
Because they're going to have to import the paper and stuff. Paper comes from trees. okay we don't eat i but like
00:30:57
Veronica Adams
it
00:30:58
Heather Roberts
We don't have enough trees in this country for manufacturing to support all of the things that we need trees for, for that.
00:31:07
Veronica Adams
Well, I mean, that depends on who you ask. Some people will tell you the national parks are full of trees.
00:31:13
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Are we really, so we're cutting down our national forest.
00:31:15
Veronica Adams
Girl, don't, I mean, come on now. look Look around you.
00:31:20
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:31:20
Veronica Adams
It's a possibility.
00:31:23
Heather Roberts
I'd look at the trees outside of my window and it just would be awful if they were cut down.
00:31:26
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:31:30
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:31:31
Heather Roberts
Like it would be absolutely terrible if they would be cut down.
00:31:32
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:31:36
Heather Roberts
ah One, because one, I mean, I like the woods, but also privacy portions, right? Like how awful would it be to just be able to see straight back into like other people?
00:31:49
Heather Roberts
I don't like that.
00:31:50
Veronica Adams
ask Ask the folks who live in Kansas and Nebraska, they'll tell you.
00:31:53
Heather Roberts
I know. i know. and that's one of the reasons Vermont is very much, they they have a lot of conservation, a lot.
00:31:59
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:32:03
Heather Roberts
There's this thing.
00:32:03
Veronica Adams
Right. But with respect to our paper issues, I put nothing past the current administration.
00:32:04
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:08
Veronica Adams
With respect to any issue we run up against, I put nothing past the current administration.
00:32:10
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:32:12
Veronica Adams
Like the the old way of doing things, the the um the law and order, as it were, out out the window.
00:32:22
Veronica Adams
You know, like we we just don't. There's a mismatch and alignment of values here. We are raping and pillaging and burning things to the ground for the benefit of the people at the top. And that's just the way it's going to be for at least the next two, if not four or more years, depending on what other crazy shenanigans happen.
00:32:38
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:32:41
Heather Roberts
So we're going to watch this because this is going very interesting.
00:32:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:32:45
Heather Roberts
But yeah, we haven't seen any sort of massive spikes yet, yet in pricing.
00:32:52
Veronica Adams
Right.
00:32:54
Heather Roberts
But it is ah it's a major concern.
00:32:57
Veronica Adams
For sure.
00:32:57
Heather Roberts
These shares have just, you know, started. So we'll see.
00:33:02
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:33:04
Heather Roberts
But until then, we'll keep an eye on things.
00:33:07
Veronica Adams
Yes. Or until the next absolutely insane thing happens.
00:33:12
Heather Roberts
and we're We're doing pretty good with our two podcasts a month. And we're trying to, yeah bring some interesting speakers on.
00:33:17
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:33:22
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:33:22
Heather Roberts
um Yeah,
00:33:23
Veronica Adams
This new format, new pace.
00:33:26
Heather Roberts
I'm digging it. So hopefully you're getting value ah out of it as well. And we will continue to dive into legal issues as well as, you know, social ones that affect our industry.
00:33:36
Veronica Adams
social ones.
00:33:39
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:33:40
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:33:41
Heather Roberts
so Stick with us and we will talk to you next time on Proport Take.
00:33:46
Veronica Adams
right.