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Author Survival Guide: Year 5 with Pru Warren
18 Plays2 days ago
Join the hilarious world of Pru Warren and get ready to fall in love with her books! Heather and Veronica continue their author survival guide series and talk to author Pru Warren who has been publishing rom-coms for almost five years.
Pru talks about her journey, what she's learned (and hasn't!) and gives solid advice for any writer wanting to publish. Whether you're ready to publish or you've been publishing for a decade, this episode will leave you with insights and something to think about!
This podcast is from 1852 Media.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'For Books Sake' and Guest Prue Warren
00:00:00
Heather Roberts
Hello, I am Heather Roberts.
00:00:03
Veronica Adams
I am Veronica Adams. Together we are 1852 and this is For Books Sake.
00:00:18
Heather Roberts
I know it's great music, right? Welcome back to For Books Sake. We are here today again on our series about authors and their journeys. And today we have the incredible and amazing Prue Warren with us.
00:00:34
Heather Roberts
Hello and welcome Prue. Did you like our intro music?
00:00:38
Pru Warren
Yes, dug it, dug it, rockin'.
00:00:41
Heather Roberts
that's my That's my ode to John Oliver, essentially.
00:00:44
Pru Warren
It's very
00:00:46
Heather Roberts
I needed an intro song. It's very jammy, very John Oliver-esque.
00:00:48
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:00:50
Pru Warren
good.
00:00:51
Veronica Adams
Quite cheeky of you, Heather.
00:00:53
Heather Roberts
Yes, thank you. I should be like panging on the table when it's, you know, playing.
00:00:56
Veronica Adams
Uh-huh.
00:00:57
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we're we're so happy to be
Prue Warren's Writing Journey and Book Publishing
00:01:03
Heather Roberts
back. If you are following our author series, we had Campbell Linden on previously, who was an author for a year.
00:01:11
Heather Roberts
And now we have Prue Warren, who you are coming up on five years, if I'm correct.
00:01:15
Pru Warren
Yes, I am. Yes, I am.
00:01:17
Heather Roberts
So yeah, congratulations on that.
00:01:19
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:01:21
Heather Roberts
That's incredible.
00:01:21
Pru Warren
really like it. I really like
00:01:22
Veronica Adams
That's a great milestone accomplishment. A lot of authors who set out to write the first book don't make it five years into the career. so
00:01:28
Heather Roberts
That's true.
00:01:29
Pru Warren
it. Most authors, I don't think are entertaining themselves as much as I'm entertaining myself. I mean, my abiding philosophy is, is it funny?
00:01:41
Pru Warren
Am I laughing? Am I enjoying it? If not, I'm done.
00:01:45
Heather Roberts
Yeah. And how many books have you written in these five years?
00:01:50
Pru Warren
uh uh i've just published my 24th the 25th will be out in november and 26 will be out in january
00:01:55
Heather Roberts
Oh my God.
00:01:59
Heather Roberts
Oh my God, woman.
00:02:00
Veronica Adams
Incredible.
00:02:02
Heather Roberts
That is truly incredible.
00:02:03
Pru Warren
can i love it i love it i mean it is so much fun ah telling stories is more fun than and and i can you know if i'm mad at somebody i make them evil person in my book and then smack them down
00:02:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:16
Veronica Adams
Yes. yes
00:02:17
Heather Roberts
you've You've truly come so, so far. So Prue and I worked together for when she was debut, right? Like very first book coming out of the gate.
00:02:25
Pru Warren
That's right. The very first book, that's right.
00:02:30
Veronica Adams
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You guys just blew my, seriously?
00:02:34
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:02:34
Veronica Adams
has has it been that long? but Prue have, oh my God, where has time gone?
00:02:40
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:02:40
Veronica Adams
i'm i'm buffering now. My brain is catching up with the reality of the fact that it's been five years since y'all first worked together and that Prue has written literally 20 plus more books since then.
00:02:50
Heather Roberts
It's insane.
00:02:50
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:02:51
Veronica Adams
That is amazing.
00:02:53
Pru Warren
Well...
00:02:53
Heather Roberts
It's insane.
00:02:54
Pru Warren
I'm just amusing myself.
00:02:56
Veronica Adams
you're doing it very well.
00:02:56
Pru Warren
So.
00:02:56
Heather Roberts
But yet you, you were such a, you were such a baby author when we first met.
00:02:58
Pru Warren
Well.
00:03:02
Heather Roberts
i mean, Oh, well we do love hearing that, but i mean, not, I mean, for me, not for you,
00:03:02
Pru Warren
I've never had a launch as good as the launch you gave me. So thank you.
00:03:10
Pru Warren
if
00:03:14
Heather Roberts
you know what I meant.
00:03:15
Pru Warren
I do know.
00:03:17
Heather Roberts
But no, I mean, it's so amazing to see how far you've come. I mean, you've really entered this industry. You've embraced it.
Involvement in Washington Romance Writers and Marketing Insights
00:03:25
Heather Roberts
You have done what so many authors should be doing is getting out and networking, right?
00:03:30
Heather Roberts
And now you are you lead up.
00:03:30
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:03:32
Heather Roberts
um What is your position with the romance?
00:03:35
Pru Warren
i am the president elect of the Washington Romance Writers, which is the local Washington, D.C. chapter of Romance Writers of America. So I'll be in charge next year.
00:03:45
Heather Roberts
It's amazing.
00:03:47
Pru Warren
And I think they're all shaking in their shoes because. i I literally I'm not kidding. I just do things that amuse me. So we have we have we have board meetings, right? I'm the like the vice president going to be the president.
00:04:00
Pru Warren
We have board meetings and they follow Robert's rules of order, right? Like, can I get a nomination?
00:04:04
Heather Roberts
as yes
00:04:05
Pru Warren
Can I get a second? Let's all vote. and like and I'm just laughing.
00:04:07
Veronica Adams
oh
00:04:08
Pru Warren
Like, get you, yeah i mean, you know, that's just not what it's going to be like next year. I don't care. Does anybody have a problem?
00:04:13
Veronica Adams
sir I'm having I'm having sorority formal business meeting flashbacks now like the you know
00:04:14
Pru Warren
Okay, we're doing it. So
00:04:22
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:04:23
Pru Warren
I respect it. I do respect it. I understand why people have meetings that way.
00:04:29
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:04:30
Pru Warren
but I don't know that we can do it.
00:04:30
Heather Roberts
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. I have to admit that, you know, I don't hate that my last name is Roberts for such times. Like my nerd heart loves that. um Yeah.
00:04:45
Pru Warren
I'm going to tell everybody on my board next year that I'm using Heather Roberts rules of order.
00:04:49
Veronica Adams
yes yes yes the new and improved robert's rules of order the modern the the modern woman's guides
00:04:51
Heather Roberts
Yes, please do. Please do.
00:04:54
Pru Warren
Perfect.
00:04:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah. I can jazz them up for you.
00:04:58
Pru Warren
Now i am not worried at all about my term next year.
00:05:02
Heather Roberts
No, you're going have much fun.
00:05:02
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:05:04
Heather Roberts
I will tell the listeners and Veronica that...
00:05:04
Veronica Adams
okay
00:05:07
Heather Roberts
So I went to a marketing ah retreat or workshop convention, as it were, um that was run by Pru back in, what was it?
00:05:17
Heather Roberts
March, April of this year?
00:05:19
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:05:19
Heather Roberts
so end of March.
00:05:19
Pru Warren
yeah
00:05:20
Heather Roberts
And it was truly the best, most well-run conference I have been to in a minute. for It was just for authors. There was no signing involved or anything. But it was so well run. You had everything down to the, ah you had everything done. Like it was fantastic.
00:05:38
Heather Roberts
the session
00:05:38
Pru Warren
You're awesome. Your check is in the mail. I just have to pay you.
00:05:42
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:05:43
Pru Warren
Thank you. That's a nice thing.
00:05:44
Heather Roberts
But really, i mean, you were detail oriented. You had fun with it Everybody there was saying how much fun they were having, how much they were learning. it' was very good.
00:05:55
Pru Warren
Good, good. The plan was to do a conference for authors entirely on marketing, no craft, none of this 12 stages of intimacy or how to make your protagonists more lovable.
00:06:08
Pru Warren
This was just how do I sell more damn books? Because the world, how do you, how do you, because even, and I I'm pretty open about saying I inherited money from my mother.
00:06:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah, secure the bag and make the money. Yes, yes.
00:06:22
Pru Warren
i don't need, they're not paying the rent off my book income, which is lucky because my book income wouldn't wouldn't cover it. but But there are so many authors, so many authors, you guys know this, who are writing spectacular books, really good books, and they're getting no traction.
00:06:37
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:06:41
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:06:43
Pru Warren
Cream doesn't rise to the top, right?
00:06:43
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:06:45
Pru Warren
I mean, there's crap that's making the bestseller list that, you know, a million of us are writing better books than that. how do you How do you do that? How do you get up here? So i took over the Washington romance writer said, we need a conference. Anybody want to help? And I'm like, yep, I'm in.
00:07:03
Pru Warren
And then I kind of, I body checked everybody away. I ran that conference by myself. Nobody else got to come in and play.
00:07:08
Heather Roberts
his Yeah.
00:07:09
Pru Warren
It was all mine. And I got to have an it all marketing conference, which didn't help me break through, but did help me sort of focus my, focus my goals for the coming year.
00:07:22
Pru Warren
So that's why.
00:07:24
Heather Roberts
Well, you did a great job and I'm sure that there were some tips and tricks that if you implement, you could help you. well I gave her a hard time. Obviously we've known each other a long time.
00:07:35
Pru Warren
Obviously.
00:07:36
Heather Roberts
Um,
00:07:36
Pru Warren
Obviously. Smack.
00:07:38
Heather Roberts
But yeah, no, it was really well run. It was amazing. I met some amazing people there who I now, I'm now Kate Hall's agent. I don't know if you knew that.
00:07:48
Pru Warren
Oh, that's awesome!
00:07:50
Heather Roberts
Yes. And I met Kate Hall at your marketing conference. So love her.
00:07:53
Pru Warren
Good. Good. That's really good. She's way bright.
00:07:56
Heather Roberts
She's incredibly bright.
00:07:57
Pru Warren
Wow, that was fun to talk to her.
00:07:59
Heather Roberts
Yes. Very bright.
00:08:01
Pru Warren
Excellent.
00:08:01
Heather Roberts
ah Kate Hall, if you've not know who that is, we have another, we've she's been on this podcast before.
00:08:06
Veronica Adams
Yes, she has.
00:08:06
Heather Roberts
So go back. A couple episodes, she is a whiz at TikTok. So she's she's wonderful and a very...
00:08:14
Pru Warren
That's why she came to the conference. She spoke to us about doing TikTok.
00:08:16
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:08:18
Pru Warren
And I didn't actually, I was wandering around dealing with caterers, but as people came out of that room, eyes were wide. People were like making notes. This is what I can, I can do that. I can do that. It was very um motivating. and It's really motivating.
00:08:32
Heather Roberts
It was. And I will say, so your conference talking with Kate and some others there, Lisa Vino was there, inspired me to finally make the course website.
00:08:39
Pru Warren
Yes.
00:08:42
Heather Roberts
So that was the inspiration to get me off my butt to actually make my course website.
00:08:48
Veronica Adams
look at this not just a marketing conference for writers but a marketing conference for writers marketers oh my gosh
00:08:48
Heather Roberts
so
00:08:53
Heather Roberts
Yes, I'm telling you, it it was truly an inspirational weekend. yeah.
00:09:00
Pru Warren
When I get to the pearly gates and St. Peter says, what good did you do?
Prue's 'Bad Attitude Billionaires' Series
00:09:04
Pru Warren
I'm going to say, please check the podcast. I want to hear from Heather Roberts Rules of Order.
00:09:09
Veronica Adams
yes proof proof flowers are in the podcast
00:09:10
Heather Roberts
yeah Yes.
00:09:13
Heather Roberts
But so, yeah, know so Prue is not only great at putting people together, but you also can write an amazing book.
00:09:20
Pru Warren
Oh, you're very kind.
00:09:21
Heather Roberts
what is your What is your most recent release and what are you currently writing?
00:09:25
Pru Warren
Uh, I actually, my laugh, oh God. And that deals with marketing. I took, I signed up for Mark Dawson's, uh, ads for authors.
00:09:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:09:36
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:09:37
Pru Warren
And he, I didn't, I really didn't get very far in it. You're like, why don't you apply some of the things you've learned prudence? And I'm like, okay, all right. I didn't get very far. But one of the things he said was that he bundles together three free books for his three series and gives away the free books.
00:09:51
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah.
00:09:53
Pru Warren
but he doesn't make a penny of profit until the sixth book, the sixth book. And I was buffering, right? Just just like Veronica's just buffering, that blew my mind because romance novels are either standalones or they come in thirds.
00:10:02
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:10:08
Pru Warren
Nobody gets to number six, you don't.
00:10:08
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:10:10
Pru Warren
I mean, Bridgerton, yes. So could I create a romance series that would actually get me to profitability? Could I write six books in a series?
00:10:22
Pru Warren
So I decided to write what I'm calling the bad attitude billionaires.
00:10:23
Heather Roberts
Oh,
00:10:27
Pru Warren
I write rom-coms. So I wrote the bad attitude billionaires on the wall of my son's room. My son's gone off to law school. So his room is empty now, sucker. He left. And instead of doing like a poster board of what I was going to do, I have now covered one wall of his room with a 10 book series that I'm going to write of the Babcock family.
00:10:47
Heather Roberts
I love it.
00:10:50
Pru Warren
They're the bad attitude billionaires and they're called the Babcocks because bad attitude billionaire, I was abbreviating to BAB. And then what's a great wrong word? Cock, right?
00:11:00
Pru Warren
So the family is the Babcocks.
00:11:00
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:11:03
Pru Warren
And there are 10 of them, cousins, sisters, brothers, whoever. And I've got full 10 book series planned out. I just published the third of them and the fourth will come out in January.
00:11:14
Heather Roberts
Love it.
00:11:15
Pru Warren
So I've got i've got i got six more to go. So that's what I'm working on.
00:11:19
Heather Roberts
and So they're all standalone, interconnected novels.
00:11:22
Pru Warren
All standalone interconnected. You can read them alone, but by the time you get to book three, you will have met some of the people in book one and book two.
00:11:25
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:11:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:11:29
Pru Warren
So it's just a little easier to read them in order.
00:11:32
Veronica Adams
Get the full Babcock if you go all in on the series.
00:11:33
Heather Roberts
I love that.
00:11:35
Pru Warren
guys If you get the whole thing.
00:11:37
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:11:37
Pru Warren
And i'll maybe I'll make a profit at book six.
00:11:37
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:11:40
Heather Roberts
Yes. No, you you will you will though. The longer series do help. I mean, but then you can have too long of a series too. I've seen some authors do that where they just like stay in one series forever.
00:11:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:11:47
Pru Warren
I know.
00:11:49
Pru Warren
keep going.
00:11:52
Heather Roberts
and then it's very hard to find new readers because, you know, who's coming in at book 17 of a series, right?
00:11:58
Pru Warren
Well, that's a really good, it's a really good point.
00:11:58
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:12:00
Pru Warren
Do you find, I'm sorry, want to be, I'm going to come on and pick your brain. I said, if you pick my brain, dude do you, do you find that
00:12:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah, you're here.
00:12:10
Pru Warren
People get authors can write a long series, but break it up with standalones in between. if my theory was I'll write all 10 of them and get them done, but maybe what I should do is four and then something else and then three and then something else.
00:12:20
Heather Roberts
Mm-hmm.
00:12:25
Pru Warren
And right. Do you, what's, what's important.
00:12:27
Heather Roberts
i'll tell you my I'll tell you my opinion. and then Veronica, you can say what you like to to do as well.
00:12:30
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:12:32
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:12:33
Heather Roberts
So you can do it in a variety of different ways. This is why I'm saying there's no one right answer. What I think works best is when you're writing a series that you write two series at once.
00:12:45
Heather Roberts
And so you have, and then you alternate releases because you can do the momentum thing.
00:12:46
Pru Warren
just
00:12:52
Heather Roberts
You don't want to lose momentum in either series. But you want to be able to feed your readers into another series while you're going. And because you might attract different people, right?
00:13:03
Heather Roberts
And then so if you attract different people for the other series, then they might say, oh, well, I'm waiting for it. She has a new release. I'll try the other series while I'm waiting.
00:13:14
Heather Roberts
And now you have two feeders into you of potentially different sets of readers that can cross and overlap.
00:13:23
Heather Roberts
So it's like the zipper. I'll call it the zipper theory.
00:13:23
Pru Warren
Okay, that's brilliant.
00:13:24
Veronica Adams
Yeah. I like that.
00:13:26
Heather Roberts
That's my.
00:13:26
Veronica Adams
that's ah That's a really good description of it.
00:13:27
Pru Warren
This is a permerge.
00:13:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:13:29
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:13:30
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:13:30
Pru Warren
what
00:13:31
Heather Roberts
Do you have have a different way to do it, Veronica?
00:13:31
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:13:34
Veronica Adams
No, i that that is exactly what I was going to say is probably the method I would recommend for almost everyone. I think the only thing I would i would potentially differentiate is, you know are you publishing wide or are you publishing direct to KDP Select and NKU?
00:13:49
Pru Warren
Yeah, K.U.
00:13:51
Veronica Adams
You might do two or three of one series first on the KU side of things.
00:13:55
Heather Roberts
and
00:13:57
Pru Warren
How appropriate. How wonderful of you to say.
00:13:58
Veronica Adams
Uh-huh.
00:14:00
Heather Roberts
Yeah, that's not a bad idea.
00:14:00
Veronica Adams
Yes, that's the only differentiation I would i would add.
00:14:01
Pru Warren
Thank you. like you
00:14:03
Veronica Adams
Otherwise, I think Heather's spot on here.
00:14:06
Heather Roberts
And have them up for pre-order for the love of God.
00:14:08
Veronica Adams
Always. Even if they're out to the furthest date and you're going to live launch them way earlier than the pre-order date says that they're up for, yeah, get them up there. start Start selling them now.
00:14:19
Heather Roberts
yeah get the conversion.
00:14:21
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:14:22
Heather Roberts
because there is that one person who's going to say oh my god i'm obsessed with this series i want to preorder the entire series now if you don't give them that opportunity to do it you've lost that sale they might not remember
00:14:35
Veronica Adams
i
00:14:35
Heather Roberts
him and old fish
00:14:35
Pru Warren
Shoot, so that's fascinating.
00:14:37
Veronica Adams
i I am currently running a pre-order ad campaign for an author who this brand new series, book one, is the pre-order book. Book two is also up for pre-order and the pre-order ad is converting at like 30%.
00:14:50
Veronica Adams
So every third every third person who pre-orders book one is also pre-ordering book two.
00:14:51
Pru Warren
No kidding.
00:14:57
Pru Warren
One moment, please. I need to make a note.
00:14:59
Veronica Adams
It's possible.
00:15:00
Heather Roberts
we're having We're having a marketing sesh. I love it I love it
00:15:04
Pru Warren
Everything is a marketing session. I mean, my God.
00:15:06
Heather Roberts
I know. Well, this goes to this goes to the point of the episode, though, is that just because you're five years into this, and I'm i'm doing this because authors need to understand that you don't ever stop learning.
00:15:18
Pru Warren
Oh my God.
00:15:18
Heather Roberts
I mean, you never stop learning. And as we talk to authors who've been doing this for a decade, or you know, like they will, we will have the same or similar conversations because there's always something new.
00:15:20
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:15:30
Heather Roberts
There's always ah a different strategy to try and you're, you're literally never stopped learning.
00:15:36
Pru Warren
Plus, ah here's here's my thought for anybody listening. Because indie publishing is 10 years old, 12 years old, we're in the wild, wild west.
00:15:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:15:45
Pru Warren
What worked last year no longer works.
00:15:45
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:15:48
Pru Warren
People used to say that a BookBub feature deal was the end of time.
00:15:48
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:15:52
Pru Warren
If you could get that, you're set for life. And now we're hearing much less interesting results from it. That was last year. i mean, the things that I thought I could count on
00:16:00
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:16:01
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:05
Pru Warren
That ain't working anymore. So it's not it's not a matter of wisdom and experience.
00:16:06
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:07
Heather Roberts
All
00:16:11
Pru Warren
It's a matter of holding onto the wave, surf the wave you're on right now, because this this is the wet the wild west.
00:16:16
Heather Roberts
right.
00:16:16
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:16:17
Pru Warren
There are no rules.
00:16:19
Pru Warren
It's weird.
00:16:19
Veronica Adams
Commitment is so important, but adaptability is just as important as commitment.
00:16:19
Heather Roberts
yeah and Yeah, you have to be willing to pivot.
00:16:23
Veronica Adams
Yes, absolutely. Uh-huh.
00:16:26
Heather Roberts
You have to be unemotional and treat this as a business if you want this to be your career. And, you know, once you put those book babies out into the world, they're products now. They're not yours anymore.
00:16:38
Heather Roberts
And getting through that thick skin, you know, getting that thick skin is is important. And that sort of separation, right, from your books.
00:16:44
Pru Warren
I
00:16:47
Pru Warren
yeah i think that's right. I think that's right.
00:16:49
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:16:50
Pru Warren
Exactly right. When I, when I first began with you, Heather, you said, why aren't you on book talk and it was five years ago and I went, what talk? I don't know what that is. um But do you feel now?
00:17:03
Pru Warren
I never did. Right. yeah I'm 65 for God's sake. I'm an old lady. Don't let me on to TikTok. ah But now do you think it's still possible to gain traction on book talk? Because what I'm getting now is that if you weren't there five years ago, 10 years ago, whenever, it's very hard now to gain any traction.
00:17:14
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:17:23
Heather Roberts
No, not necessarily. i would say newer accounts get the most traction. So when you start an account on BookTok, you are, or or TikTok, just generally speaking, right?
00:17:36
Heather Roberts
You need to pick a lane, pick your lane and start posting content for that lane. So If you are going to be face forward and you're going to talk about books and be you know the author, then you need to start doing that and start dumping content in there.
TikTok and Marketing Strategies for Authors
00:17:52
Heather Roberts
Don't just post once and then like go away. You need to dump content ah into there. Be sort you know strategic and consistent about it. Like I'm talking three posts a day.
00:18:04
Heather Roberts
You can post them back to back to back. They don't care. Right there. You're going to get traction on videos. I still get likes from videos that I posted like, I don't know, three years ago.
00:18:16
Heather Roberts
Um, TikTok doesn't care when you post the video. So it's not like some of these other platforms where it's like, oh, well you should post because your followers are going to see this between like, you know, four and 8 PM and you know all that.
00:18:29
Heather Roberts
No, just post the content on TikTok. It rewards posting content. It also were rewards entertaining, you know, content. You need to be able to hook the person in the first, you know, two seconds of the video.
00:18:44
Heather Roberts
Um, What other tips would I give for for TikTok? I think it's absolutely legitimate way to gain traction. a lot of book talk, it does require a commitment.
00:18:53
Pru Warren
And it does require a commitment.
00:18:57
Heather Roberts
um The rewards though can be great. so yeah there's that, right? um It can be incredibly frustrating as well. Don't get me wrong. i have I have my personal account on TikTok, right? Where I'm just posting whatever I want. It's more of like a video vlog for me.
00:19:15
Heather Roberts
i
00:19:15
Veronica Adams
She dances with the goats to entertain my son ultimately is what it comes down to.
00:19:17
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:19:19
Heather Roberts
Yeah. I post political stuff. I post goat stuff. I post Vermont stuff. I just, and I don't post on a schedule. I post whenever I want to post.
00:19:29
Heather Roberts
And you'll see that, you know, I've gained like, I have like 5,700 followers there, which is actually not terrible. um But I could have a lot more if I was actually consistent about it and consistent about the type of content that I post it.
00:19:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:44
Heather Roberts
um And I was either informative, educational, or entertaining in my posts. So those are the three things that you want to think about when you're you're posting on TikTok.
00:19:56
Pru Warren
I'm writing it down. Informative, educational, entertaining.
00:19:59
Heather Roberts
And have a hook at the beginning. People like to, you know... people People like to be entertained. They like to learn things.
00:20:06
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:20:07
Heather Roberts
A good friend of mine who i actually met on TikTok and then I met her in real life here in Vermont. ah Now we're friends. She just had a video go viral. It has over 4 million views on it.
00:20:19
Pru Warren
and
00:20:20
Heather Roberts
It's insane. And it's literally her husband is a welder and he was starching a shirt, like a sweatshirt that he can then take in to work with him. And he was going through the process of it.
00:20:34
Heather Roberts
and that is what you know took off, but it's informative, and she was they were entertaining while they were doing it.
00:20:39
Pru Warren
and
00:20:42
Pru Warren
Why would a welder starch a sweatshirt?
00:20:45
Heather Roberts
So when you're welding, things I learned from the video. ah When you're welding, you don't want to wear just like a regular fiber sweatshirt because the if a spark gets on it, you become very flammable, right?
00:20:59
Heather Roberts
But if you...
00:20:59
Pru Warren
starch is flammable
00:21:01
Heather Roberts
if you It was some mixture with starch.
00:21:04
Pru Warren
oh okay okay he was fireproofing himself
00:21:05
Heather Roberts
i don't I didn't watch it that early.
00:21:07
Veronica Adams
A welding safe charge, if you will.
00:21:10
Heather Roberts
Yeah, he was essentially fireproofing himself. It comes out very stiff, right? So she was making a lot of jokes, as it were.
00:21:19
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:21:19
Heather Roberts
um And he was not getting any of the jokes. They were not coming across to him at all. So it was very funny to watch. um And yeah, so he was going through that whole process. And yeah, it was a fun process to watch.
00:21:33
Pru Warren
That's wild.
00:21:33
Heather Roberts
And yeah, what, 4 million views. And she was not expecting that at all. She thought that her normal, like she has decent following, but she thought her normal people would watch it. No, it was informative and it was funny. And it, you know, it went viral.
00:21:46
Pru Warren
Wow. That's wild. but
00:21:48
Heather Roberts
Now you can on BookTok, I'm going on a rant here, but now there's a lot of people who always say like, oh, well, carousels or I call them page swipes, but you know carousels where you put up the individual images and then people swipe through them, right?
00:21:48
Pru Warren
That's wild.
00:21:57
Pru Warren
Right.
00:22:01
Pru Warren
Yep.
00:22:02
Heather Roberts
Yeah, those absolutely can still go viral. The problem is you have to have a separate account for that. You you can't do a face account and do that kind of account.
00:22:12
Pru Warren
No, I didn't know that.
00:22:13
Heather Roberts
I mean, you can, but TikTok's gonna get confused as to what you're doing. So your views are gonna fluctuate.
00:22:23
Veronica Adams
And that's still a completely viable way to like uplift your backlist too. I actually was just chatting with someone, ah mid list author like yourself, who is using TikTok to replace her Facebook ad campaign strategy right now because her swipe videos are selling her backlist enough that she's actually making more money just posting to TikTok twice a day than she was then she was running Facebook ads.
00:22:44
Pru Warren
That's wild. That's wild.
00:22:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:22:48
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:22:48
Pru Warren
Wild.
00:22:49
Heather Roberts
Totally possible to do.
00:22:51
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:22:51
Heather Roberts
Does take a little bit of a commitment, but there are ways to do it.
00:22:54
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:22:56
Heather Roberts
Kate Hall has amazing ah strategy in her course and she teaches you how to batch them if you take her course for that.
00:23:00
Veronica Adams
Yeah, she does.
00:23:04
Heather Roberts
So yeah, super great.
00:23:08
Pru Warren
All right.
00:23:08
Heather Roberts
Kate will be pleased I'm plugging her stuff. I just...
00:23:11
Pru Warren
All right.
00:23:13
Heather Roberts
Um, but no, I mean, she, she breaks it all down into how to like the actual step-by-step of how to batch to do those, uh, carousels and those slides, which yeah, she explains it better than I could in this particular podcast.
00:23:22
Pru Warren
Okay. That's excellent.
00:23:27
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:23:27
Heather Roberts
Um, but yeah, if you don't want to do that, you know, yeah, you just create the, create the slides and then you can reuse them. And there's nothing to say that you have to, it's a one and done type situation.
00:23:36
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:23:37
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:23:37
Veronica Adams
You repost them seven or eight times to different sounds or yeah.
00:23:40
Pru Warren
Oh, no kidding.
00:23:41
Heather Roberts
Yeah. yeah
00:23:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:23:42
Pru Warren
So that's interesting. All right. I want to go back to the concept of writing two series at a time.
00:23:48
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:23:48
Pru Warren
And I chose billionaires for my series because theyre but everybody wants more news about billionaires, right?
00:23:54
Heather Roberts
Ooh.
00:23:55
Pru Warren
that's a hot That's a hot, especially in times of economic uncertainty, nothing's more attractive than you know a Busby Berkeley musical, right? I mean, everybody wants to know, right? ah What else?
00:24:08
Pru Warren
You know it's true. Dancing girls, right? Fans, others, right?
00:24:11
Veronica Adams
Yes, yes, absolutely.
00:24:13
Pru Warren
What else is hot at the moment in the rom-com world?
00:24:16
Heather Roberts
oh
00:24:17
Pru Warren
What's another genre? Do I have to turn to motorcycle gangs?
00:24:21
Heather Roberts
Oh, i would I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do Billionaires and Motorcycle Gangs.
00:24:24
Veronica Adams
be a little darker with the motorcycle gangs, I think.
00:24:27
Pru Warren
Okay, fair enough.
00:24:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:29
Pru Warren
You don't think comedic motorcycle gangs would be a hit?
00:24:31
Veronica Adams
I don't know. yeah it would be it would be a gamble it would be a gamble in this market, okay?
00:24:34
Pru Warren
Hey, Bucky. Right, right.
00:24:36
Veronica Adams
Because i think i think it's the I think it's the girls who like the masked men and the serial killers who would be going for the biker gangs, you know?
00:24:37
Pru Warren
Why are you dressed up as a bunny rabbit?
00:24:42
Pru Warren
Love it. Yep.
00:24:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:44
Pru Warren
That's a hoot.
00:24:44
Veronica Adams
ah Yeah, for sure.
Trends in Romantic Comedies and Author Advice
00:24:47
Pru Warren
All right, rom-com world does have to be nannies.
00:24:50
Heather Roberts
No, doesn't have to be.
00:24:51
Pru Warren
Hockey players.
00:24:52
Veronica Adams
Yeah, sports still really big.
00:24:54
Pru Warren
or
00:24:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:24:55
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:24:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah, still really big with hockey. And not just any sports hockey.
00:24:59
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Small town.
00:25:01
Heather Roberts
Small town. any Any sort of fish out of water situation. 100%.
00:25:05
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:25:05
Pru Warren
Oh, I love fish out order. Small town can still be dirty though, can it? I can still write smooth.
00:25:09
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:25:09
Heather Roberts
oh and That's my favorite kind of small town. Yeah.
00:25:12
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:25:15
Veronica Adams
it's ah she's She's an auto buy for a dirty small town book.
00:25:18
Heather Roberts
what
00:25:19
Veronica Adams
If there's BDSM in it, sold.
00:25:21
Heather Roberts
Yeah, even more.
00:25:21
Veronica Adams
Over. Yeah.
00:25:24
Pru Warren
that's but bdsm with comedy very strange very odd very very niche very niche very niche market
00:25:29
Heather Roberts
Thank you.
00:25:30
Veronica Adams
Can be and be done though.
00:25:30
Heather Roberts
Thank you, hon.
00:25:31
Veronica Adams
Can be done though.
00:25:34
Heather Roberts
Very niche. Well, think rom-com, I think doing some time of small town hockey or hockey would be fine.
00:25:44
Pru Warren
hockey or hockey is that what you said
00:25:45
Heather Roberts
Or hockey. You still have the people who are are wealthy.
00:25:48
Veronica Adams
football f1 i mean you're not gonna get f1 in a small town obviously but like it's like a friday night lights rom-com right the football but football player football coach
00:25:52
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:25:54
Heather Roberts
Now
00:26:01
Heather Roberts
that's true. You could do that too.
00:26:03
Pru Warren
All right.
00:26:04
Veronica Adams
Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey, English teacher, football coach, gym teacher kind of thing.
00:26:04
Pru Warren
right I'm going to think about this.
00:26:08
Veronica Adams
I don't know.
00:26:08
Pru Warren
Oh, so you're getting a little YA there.
00:26:12
Veronica Adams
Yeah, maybe.
00:26:12
Pru Warren
I always get a little nervous about really overt smut in the YA field for fear that somebody who's going to pick it up, who's not ready for open door.
00:26:15
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:21
Heather Roberts
Right, right.
00:26:22
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:23
Pru Warren
It's interesting. Okay. It's very interesting. I have to think about it because I thought I was being ultra ambitious, planning out 10 books, but now what I need to do
00:26:30
Heather Roberts
I mean, it is ambitious planning out some books.
00:26:32
Veronica Adams
No, that that is a big bite at the apple, so to speak.
00:26:35
Pru Warren
But I'm hoping that the fact that I write fast will, will mean it can be nibbled, right?
00:26:35
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:26:40
Pru Warren
That, that I can sustain interest in it.
00:26:41
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:26:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:26:44
Heather Roberts
Absolutely. And here's the thing. Think about it this way. If you're doing the zipper theory, that series is now going to get pushed out with release dates a little bit further.
00:26:50
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:26:54
Heather Roberts
So now you you have a longer stretch of the series where you're promoting the entire series for a longer period of time.
00:26:59
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:27:00
Heather Roberts
when it's still new.
00:27:02
Pru Warren
Oh, it's curious. It's curious. And you ah do you believe that ah rom-coms in particular, but all romances, how many books in a series in order to make them viable?
00:27:14
Pru Warren
Do I have to do another 10 book series?
00:27:14
Veronica Adams
and
00:27:16
Heather Roberts
No, I think so five to six is a good number. 10 is lovely, but I think five to six is a good number.
00:27:20
Pru Warren
Five to six.
00:27:23
Heather Roberts
Veronica,
00:27:25
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:27:26
Heather Roberts
your thoughts, any?
00:27:27
Veronica Adams
Oh, I was going to say you could do as few as three probably and have a viable trilogy.
00:27:31
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:27:32
Pru Warren
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:32
Veronica Adams
he
00:27:33
Pru Warren
ah Because I love a trilogy. I mean, that's that's pretty easy.
00:27:36
Veronica Adams
Even if they're interconnected standalones and it's not actually one cliffhanger, one cliffhanger and the conclusion, you know, three, just three interconnected volumes.
00:27:36
Pru Warren
ah
00:27:40
Pru Warren
Right. Right. I'm ah i' i'm an anti-cliffhanger person.
00:27:44
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:27:45
Pru Warren
I don't like it. But interconnected volumes, um yeah, double plus good. But... but
00:27:53
Heather Roberts
I like the five to six though, because it's, it does give you more meat on the bone for, yeah.
00:27:57
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:28:00
Pru Warren
Do you believe that when authors write trilogies of interconnected books, then the reader is more likely to explore the backlist, or are they just going to sit around and wait for the next one?
00:28:12
Heather Roberts
Mm, that's a hard one.
00:28:15
Pru Warren
I got a big backlist now.
00:28:15
Veronica Adams
depends on Depends on where the reader comes from, I think. If you are getting KU readers, I think they're just going to ah
00:28:24
Pru Warren
Go someplace else.
00:28:25
Veronica Adams
move on. there's There's a high consumption rate there.
00:28:26
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:28:28
Veronica Adams
I think you get people who wait wide.
00:28:32
Pru Warren
I don't want to be wide. I just feel complicated.
00:28:33
Heather Roberts
Yeah, I know.
00:28:35
Veronica Adams
yeah Yes,
00:28:36
Heather Roberts
i think I think, I mean, if they really like your books and they've just found you, they're going to go and try to find everything else that you've written and read it all.
00:28:42
Veronica Adams
Absolutely.
00:28:43
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Especially in KU.
00:28:45
Veronica Adams
Yeah, especially if they can consume as much of your work as possible for their monthly subscription fee, whether it's KU or Kobo Plus. Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:53
Pru Warren
and all right. All right. All right. I'm liking the concept of small town. And i I could probably dredge up
00:28:57
Heather Roberts
I love it.
00:28:58
Veronica Adams
Ooh, we're percolating a future Prue Warren series as we record the podcast.
00:29:00
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:29:02
Pru Warren
Oh, let's go.
00:29:03
Heather Roberts
you love it.
00:29:04
Pru Warren
They're going to be named Heather, Veronica, and don't know who. Somebody else.
00:29:09
Veronica Adams
You're going to need another classic 80s girl name.
00:29:12
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:29:13
Veronica Adams
Sarah, Michelle, Jennifer, Jessica, Stephanie.
00:29:13
Heather Roberts
Jennifer.
00:29:17
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:29:18
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:29:19
Pru Warren
Steph, I'm writing it down.
00:29:22
Heather Roberts
All the girls that we went to school with.
00:29:23
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:29:23
Heather Roberts
Oh my
00:29:25
Pru Warren
Okay.
00:29:26
Veronica Adams
Yep.
00:29:27
Heather Roberts
God.
00:29:27
Pru Warren
Yeah, that's good. Steph, Heather, Veronica. Yeah, that's good.
00:29:30
Veronica Adams
Love it.
00:29:31
Pru Warren
Okay. Okay.
00:29:31
Heather Roberts
This is so fun. Do you have anything exciting coming up? Like any book signings or more conventions that you're planning or going to?
00:29:39
Pru Warren
Uh, I have done two book signings in my life and nobody knew who I was. Right. So, uh, book science, no, none, not a single stinking one, uh, conventions.
00:29:47
Heather Roberts
Sure.
00:29:52
Pru Warren
We were just talking about the, um, Washington romance writers, uh, equivalent to my marketing convention. They didn't want to do marketing every year. They want to do marketing one year and craft the second year, but we just had to kind of pull the plug on it because we're in the DC area where,
00:30:09
Pru Warren
Every third person has just been laid off, right?
00:30:11
Heather Roberts
Right.
00:30:12
Pru Warren
government shutdown has laid off a lot of, and and a lot of people have lost their jobs anyway.
00:30:14
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:30:16
Pru Warren
So we actually decided we did not want to make people want to spend four or $500 on a ticket to a great conference. So we just pulled the plug on it entirely. like
00:30:26
Heather Roberts
Oh, what a bummer.
00:30:28
Pru Warren
We're going to do something. We're going probably a one day. um Yeah, but it is it is a bummer that the political situation is beginning to invade my writer life, and I'd like to object.
00:30:40
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:30:41
Pru Warren
I'd like to register a complaint on that score.
00:30:43
Heather Roberts
I'd like to register complaint on all of it, but yes, that too.
00:30:45
Pru Warren
Yep. Yep.
00:30:46
Heather Roberts
That too. Oh, that's really frustrating.
00:30:51
Pru Warren
So that's too bad. my my My big excitement is that I'm going with my sisters on a cruise through the Panama Canal in December.
00:30:59
Heather Roberts
Oh, that's amazing.
00:30:59
Pru Warren
And what I like about that, this is ridiculous and horrible to admit out loud, but every single trip I go on is fodder for the next book, right?
00:31:08
Veronica Adams
Love that.
00:31:08
Heather Roberts
It's market research.
00:31:08
Pru Warren
So sisters, right?
00:31:10
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:31:12
Pru Warren
Sisters. ah How about a three book series of sisters in a small town?
00:31:18
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:31:18
Veronica Adams
each sister gets a happily ever after in some sort of ridiculously comedic way.
00:31:20
Pru Warren
Absolutely. yeah Exactly right. Exactly right.
00:31:26
Veronica Adams
Oh my gosh, yes.
00:31:28
Heather Roberts
Even your titles are hilarious, by the way. Like, I love your titles. They're so funny.
00:31:33
Pru Warren
Thank you. You're very kind. The Bad Attitude Billionaires titles are just the names. Quinn, Regina, Susanna.
00:31:38
Heather Roberts
the name actually have, I have your Heiress series on my shelf back here.
00:31:40
Pru Warren
They're not at all witty. They're not clever. The best
00:31:47
Pru Warren
Thank you.
00:31:48
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:31:48
Pru Warren
Thank you. Those are the best titles. that That book series was written because a friend of mine, Meredith Bond, said that she wrote a trilogy where the same scene appears in all three books. It's at the beginning of the first book, in the middle of the second book, at the end of the third book.
00:32:05
Pru Warren
And you see the same scene, but from dip different people's point of view. And I was like, oh, that's really cool. So I wrote the Aeros series, which is as three people who don't know each other, all of whom actually went to the same college. And the kind of autistic librarian has decided that they are all worthy and they all inherit bizarre properties from her. So they have to go find out Why these this wreck is valuable or why this palace, whatever.
00:32:34
Pru Warren
um And in in each of those books, there I think there are four or five different Zoom conversations that they all three of them have together. And in the first book, you don't know what the other two are talking about. But in the second book, you know what the second one's talking about. In the third book, it was so much fun to write.
00:32:49
Pru Warren
was so much fun.
00:32:50
Heather Roberts
Love that.
00:32:50
Pru Warren
And I said to my brother-in-law, a great guy named Scott, I need titles with the word Eris in it. And he went, okay, well, Breath of Fresh Eris.
00:33:02
Pru Warren
was like, oh, yeah, that's brilliant. Breath of Fresh Eris, keep going. And he said, okay, how about Full of Hot Eris? Yes, that's really good too. What do you got for the third one? He said, well, I don't Does she have a weight issue? I said, her mother was really on her about her weight and she's trying to to get a healthy attitude. He said, okay, vanished into thin airs.
00:33:21
Pru Warren
And was oh my God, it works out so perfectly. So those are the titles. Those are good titles, aren't they?
00:33:25
Heather Roberts
Aren't they so cute? Like, truly.
00:33:27
Pru Warren
They're so cute. They're so cute.
00:33:30
Heather Roberts
So creative.
00:33:31
Veronica Adams
And thank goodness for Scott.
00:33:33
Pru Warren
good for Scott. mean, he walked around my backyard thinking really hard. It was really cute. My sister and I were sitting around yapping.
00:33:38
Veronica Adams
Just steam coming out of his ears.
00:33:41
Pru Warren
Yes. Yes. Vanished into Thineris. Eureka! was very entertaining.
00:33:47
Heather Roberts
I love it. I love it.
00:33:49
Pru Warren
Very entertaining. Yep. So I kind of fell down on the current series on cute titles, but that's
00:33:51
Heather Roberts
What?
00:33:54
Heather Roberts
Well, that's all right. You you have to run out. you need You need a refresh. You need a palate cleanser.
00:33:59
Pru Warren
And actually, I'm going on the trip to Panama with my sisters and Scott.
00:34:04
Heather Roberts
Oh, there you go. So maybe you'll come out and these titles be totally different.
00:34:06
Pru Warren
So.
00:34:10
Pru Warren
No, no, for the for the for the small town sister series, I'm going to make him come up with some titles.
00:34:13
Heather Roberts
All right.
00:34:13
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:34:15
Veronica Adams
Go back to wordplay. Yes. Well, yeah.
00:34:17
Pru Warren
Go back to wordplay. We find inspiration everywhere we go.
00:34:18
Heather Roberts
my gosh.
00:34:22
Veronica Adams
I love that.
00:34:22
Heather Roberts
my gosh
00:34:24
Pru Warren
ye
00:34:24
Heather Roberts
What is the one piece of advice that you would give a new author going who's writing right now?
00:34:32
Pru Warren
Oh my God, I'm like there's tidal waves washing back and forth. ah Okay, my single word of advice is if it feels like work, maybe you're doing it wrong.
00:34:47
Heather Roberts
hmm.
00:34:48
Pru Warren
Enjoy yourself. For God's sakes, this is supposed to be the alternative to the grim nine to five. Enjoy yourself.
00:34:55
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:34:55
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:56
Pru Warren
Make sure it's fun. Make sure you're fulfilled by it. ah And that's not to say you have to be laughing the whole time. i have friends who take two years to write a book and that's, they're still having a good time.
00:35:10
Pru Warren
It's still fill something in them to create a story and to know that someone else is going to read your story, which is so addictive, such an addictive concept.
00:35:18
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:35:22
Pru Warren
I think there has to be joy. There has to be joy. You can't think of it as ah miserable, oh my God, I've got to get this done by a deadline. It should be, it should make you happy.
00:35:32
Pru Warren
It should make you happy.
00:35:34
Veronica Adams
I think that's such a great advice, though, because it you can get so busy from the very beginning chasing the numbers, right?
00:35:34
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:40
Veronica Adams
Because you do want to make money. You do want this to be a profitable enterprise. And if you are business hat on all the time, it down to the, oh, my God, which tropes should I include in this next manuscript, right?
00:35:50
Pru Warren
Right. Well, I do it too.
00:35:51
Veronica Adams
Like, what what's exactly yeah I need to write to market?
00:35:52
Pru Warren
What's hot right now? Small town.
00:35:56
Veronica Adams
What's selling?
00:35:56
Pru Warren
Right. Right.
00:35:57
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:35:57
Veronica Adams
ah Is that going to be selling in three months or six months or a year when I can get this book to market?
00:36:02
Veronica Adams
Or are the trends going to change? Is this the right cover design or do I need to look at other concepts? and And it can really, weighing the balance of all those things can really suck the fun out of the creative process.
00:36:15
Pru Warren
I think that's right. I think you're right.
00:36:16
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:36:17
Veronica Adams
That is such great advice for a new writer, Perot.
00:36:17
Pru Warren
think you're right.
00:36:19
Veronica Adams
It's amazing.
00:36:19
Pru Warren
there are so There are six million definitions of success.
00:36:22
Heather Roberts
Oh yeah.
00:36:22
Pru Warren
And the easiest one to measure is how much money you make, but that's not necessarily the best measure.
00:36:28
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:28
Pru Warren
I mean, i all my life I've struggled with my weight. So for me, the easiest measure of health was the fucking scale, which I really have a hard time with. But that's not the best measure of health.
00:36:39
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:36:41
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:36:41
Pru Warren
It's just the easiest measure. how much you make off of it or how many books you sell is one measure of success, but maybe it's not the best measure for you.
00:36:43
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:36:50
Pru Warren
So don't forget, this is supposed to be fun.
00:36:54
Heather Roberts
It is. It is. And you're right. This is not supposed to be the nine to five grind. Honestly, it's more of a 24 seven grind.
00:36:59
Pru Warren
Yes, it is. So you better love it.
00:37:05
Heather Roberts
But so you have to love it. You have to love what you do.
00:37:07
Veronica Adams
me We're going to spill all the secrets in this one, ladies.
00:37:12
Pru Warren
Every single one. You know, it's what you say about that, Heather, is true because marketing is marketing is not why most people get into writing romance.
00:37:21
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:37:21
Heather Roberts
no. now
00:37:23
Pru Warren
But if you have to do it anyway, see if you can make up your mind that you do love it. Just force yourself into believing that you love it because you've got to do it anyway.
00:37:28
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah.
00:37:33
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:37:34
Pru Warren
Or, or if you don't want to do marketing, be okay with the fact that you've written books that no one's going to read, but, but they're there and you can feel satisfaction to see them on your shelf. There are many definitions of success.
00:37:45
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:37:46
Heather Roberts
Yeah, I heard someone also said the other day, they were giving out some advice and they were saying something to the effect of, you know, you don't have to convince yourself to do the thing that you don't want to do. You can do it knowing that you're not going to enjoy it and that's okay.
00:38:01
Heather Roberts
So like if there's a piece of the business that you don't like, stop like, you know, trying to work yourself up into this frenzy of like, I'm going to convince myself to do it, right?
00:38:12
Heather Roberts
Just go into it knowing I'm not going to like doing this. And it actually makes your brain like easy. It makes it easier to get into because you've accepted the fact that you're not going to enjoy this piece of whatever it is.
00:38:20
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:38:26
Heather Roberts
And so your brain's not no no longer fighting, one you know, doing it.
00:38:26
Pru Warren
I think that's interesting.
00:38:31
Pru Warren
I think that's fascinating.
00:38:32
Heather Roberts
Yeah. Yeah. You.
00:38:33
Pru Warren
I'm going to piggyback on that. I was talking to this wonderful therapist about, I'm stuck on a weight plot. I'm sorry if this is so health focused, but i'm i was I was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease and got rid of it.
00:38:43
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:38:47
Pru Warren
Ha!
00:38:48
Heather Roberts
you
00:38:49
Pru Warren
paying attention. I know. Isn't that awesome? No longer have chronic kidney disease. you know and But it has required a huge amount of energy on my part. And I was stuck on a weight plateau and nothing was happening. And I was talking to my glorious therapist about how much I hated going out for a walk every day. Oh my God, I just hated it.
00:39:06
Pru Warren
And really it turned out it was because I was listening to a book on Audible, but I just hated and I should have just switched books. It would have made me feel so much better. But yeah,
00:39:18
Pru Warren
But she gave me a nugget. She said, first of all, that you cannot be reactive at the same time that you are analytical. You can't.
00:39:29
Pru Warren
And if you can reach analytical, if you can reach a sense of awareness, you can temporarily shut down that reactivity.
00:39:29
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:39:37
Pru Warren
So she the phrase I wrote down and taped to the mirror where I brush my teeth is the function of awareness is to interrupt the self- reinforcing negative feedback loop.
00:39:50
Pru Warren
So if you get caught in how much you hate marketing, if you get caught in, oh my God, please don't make me talk about my books or please don't make me run ads or do any of that. If you get caught in that and say to yourself, oh, wait a minute, here's what I'm doing. I'm feeling this way because I feel out of control.
00:40:07
Pru Warren
You've lifted yourself out of reactivity and now you're in awareness and you can break the cycle of, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this.
00:40:13
Heather Roberts
right.
00:40:15
Pru Warren
And you can break the cycle and become more conscious of it and realize that all you need to do is change the book you're listening to, right? There are small changes you can make that will help you turn this around.
00:40:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:40:28
Pru Warren
So awareness as the opposite of negative feedback. I'll do one of those.
00:40:33
Heather Roberts
That's really good.
00:40:34
Heather Roberts
i think it's also true because, yeah, because you can also then try to maybe find joy in a piece of it too, right?
00:40:34
Pru Warren
I think so
00:40:35
Veronica Adams
Super, super powerful.
00:40:41
Heather Roberts
Like when you're aware of it, you're like, oh, well, well maybe this hook would be more fun if I did it like this.
00:40:47
Veronica Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:48
Heather Roberts
And so then, i be yeah, you can infuse a little bit of that joy that you were talking about.
00:40:51
Veronica Adams
just that natural acceptance that this part's going to suck but also I really look forward to this component that this thing that I get to experience despite the fact that you know the journey or the destination is not one of my favorites yeah
00:40:57
Pru Warren
Yes. Nice.
00:41:04
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:41:05
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:41:05
Pru Warren
Yeah. Yeah. And maybe the reinforcement and if it's marketing that people hate, which most, most others hate.
00:41:11
Heather Roberts
And listen, you're
00:41:11
Pru Warren
me
00:41:12
Veronica Adams
yes yes yes
00:41:12
Pru Warren
now Maybe the reinforcement is the sales that you make. Maybe, maybe more people are reading your book.
00:41:17
Heather Roberts
still
00:41:18
Pru Warren
Maybe you are making enough money to pay the electric bill, if not the rent. Right. I mean, there are good things to to focus on.
00:41:23
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:41:28
Heather Roberts
going to have bad days. Veronica and I, though, joke, you know, bad day doing this is still better than loitering every day.
00:41:35
Pru Warren
but
00:41:36
Veronica Adams
Preach. Preach.
00:41:38
Pru Warren
Absolutely right.
00:41:38
Heather Roberts
Still better than lawyering.
00:41:39
Pru Warren
and
00:41:40
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:41:40
Heather Roberts
So, you know, we are.
00:41:42
Veronica Adams
tell that Tell that to your son in law school, by the way.
00:41:44
Pru Warren
Nope.
00:41:44
Veronica Adams
Okay.
00:41:44
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:41:45
Pru Warren
Nope.
00:41:45
Pru Warren
That's my son. He's staying there. The kid was born to argue. I'm not letting him out. That's what he was born to do. well
00:41:53
Heather Roberts
No, he'll do great. I mean, and you can do so many things with a law degree. It really helps your brain think differently.
00:41:57
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:42:00
Heather Roberts
And really, it's very useful.
00:42:03
Pru Warren
He's going to end up writing books.
00:42:03
Heather Roberts
is.
00:42:04
Pru Warren
I can tell he's a storyteller. Woo. I'm proud of him.
00:42:07
Heather Roberts
almost like you you know it's in the blood or something yeah
00:42:08
Pru Warren
Love that too. wouldn't it be nice if I could take credit? I take credit for all of it.
00:42:17
Heather Roberts
my son has zero percent of my blood and I still take credit for all of this you know yeah yeah ah yeah yes the presence of goats yes
00:42:21
Pru Warren
yeah
00:42:24
Pru Warren
Very wise.
00:42:25
Veronica Adams
heavy Heavy on the nurture over the nature here.
00:42:25
Pru Warren
Very wise.
00:42:28
Pru Warren
Very important. And the presence of goats, of course.
00:42:32
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:42:35
Heather Roberts
They are, oh my gosh, they're loving this weather, by the way. They're just obsessed.
00:42:39
Pru Warren
me too i took such a long walk yesterday i was so proud of myself and listened to a really good book on tape this is this is how you know how old i am did you hear i said
00:42:40
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:42:43
Heather Roberts
I have a feeling it's slightly warmer where you are, but yes.
Reading Habits and Genre Exploration
00:42:49
Pru Warren
a book on tape that's how old i am look on tape
00:42:49
Veronica Adams
Book on tape, yep.
00:42:51
Heather Roberts
A book on tape.
00:42:52
Veronica Adams
What do you, do you listen to things for inspiration or do you listen to like, ah do you listen to anything but romance? What do you consume?
00:42:59
Pru Warren
I like, oh, well, you know, um i actually was listening to Slow Horses, which was really, really good.
00:43:06
Veronica Adams
Wow.
00:43:08
Pru Warren
I've already downloaded book two of that. So much better.
00:43:11
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:43:12
Pru Warren
the ah The books I was reading that were weighing me down, like, oh, my God, I wanted to... do the equivalent of washing my hair, right? I mean, I'm just being weighed down, um were books that my son found and he and I were having a moment of reading the same series.
00:43:21
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:43:21
Heather Roberts
Right. Yeah.
00:43:27
Pru Warren
And it was, ah you know, battles and wars and raw bodies and no good.
00:43:32
Heather Roberts
oh yeah
00:43:35
Pru Warren
um I read a lot of romance because I feel like I need to keep my finger on the pulse.
00:43:40
Veronica Adams
Yes, yes. Yeah.
00:43:41
Pru Warren
And I also think that it is really critical for especially new authors to
00:43:41
Veronica Adams
yes
00:43:49
Pru Warren
Get a KU subscription, subscribe to Kindle and read a hundred romances and pay attention to them in terms of, okay, how did they, how did they do the first kiss?
00:43:54
Veronica Adams
yeah
00:43:54
Heather Roberts
All right.
00:44:00
Pru Warren
How did they do the black moment? How did they do the meet cute? Pay attention to it and put yourself through an apprenticeship of reading because I read romances all my life and had never paid attention to the things that you need to pay attention to in order to tell a good story.
00:44:14
Pru Warren
So once you know how to tell a story, then read a hundred romances and,
00:44:14
Veronica Adams
Ooh.
00:44:19
Pru Warren
figure out what it is everyone else is doing so that at least you know what the theoretical rules are before you break them because you can break them, but you should know what they are before you start. um I read a lot of romances and I picked up slow horses because it was thrillery and exciting. And at the moment I'm binging um young adult apocalyptic fiction.
00:44:38
Heather Roberts
Oh, yeah.
00:44:39
Veronica Adams
oh
00:44:40
Pru Warren
it's It's a complete, it's a complete palate cleanser.
00:44:43
Veronica Adams
yeah i
00:44:43
Pru Warren
Right.
00:44:44
Veronica Adams
I do that too. I'm not a writer, of course, but like we we romance is our business, right?
00:44:48
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:44:49
Pru Warren
right
00:44:49
Veronica Adams
I love a hard science fiction. Please send me to another galaxy. you know like Put me put me in cryostasis and wake me up in 2000 years where I can fight spiders and like fall fall in love with someone from a completely different life system.
00:45:00
Pru Warren
Love it.
00:45:02
Pru Warren
Love it.
00:45:04
Veronica Adams
like Yeah.
00:45:05
Pru Warren
Love it. Love it.
00:45:06
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:45:06
Pru Warren
Absolutely love it. Yeah.
00:45:07
Heather Roberts
I like vampires, so, you know.
00:45:08
Pru Warren
So who doesn't, but those do tend, those go sexy.
00:45:09
Veronica Adams
Yeah. yeah
00:45:13
Pru Warren
So yeah, of course.
00:45:13
Veronica Adams
They usually are very.
00:45:13
Heather Roberts
Oh, well, yeah. Yeah. That's why I like them.
00:45:18
Pru Warren
and
00:45:19
Heather Roberts
Although I did read one that I just read one. Very good series. ah Tethered is the series. don't know if you've seen that.
00:45:25
Pru Warren
That sounds really familiar. Who wrote it?
00:45:27
Heather Roberts
Um, Elena starts with a G. Hold, please.
00:45:33
Pru Warren
Maybe I haven't read it.
00:45:33
Heather Roberts
Um...
00:45:36
Pru Warren
Sounds so familiar. Is it dark?
00:45:40
Heather Roberts
they listen no it's not bdsm they call it dark romance or dark it is not dark the only dark there's there's blood and vampires so you know um alana r gallia gallia don't know i've said gallia gallia
00:45:40
Pru Warren
BDSM?
00:45:47
Veronica Adams
it
00:45:50
Pru Warren
Yeah, that's not a dark piece.
00:45:55
Veronica Adams
Oh. Galea? Galea?
00:45:59
Heather Roberts
It's ah tethered, I think, tormented and some, I don't know. there's It's a trilogy. And very good. Sort of a slow burn. Honestly, a little um not, it wasn't super sexy.
00:46:15
Heather Roberts
There wasn't a ton of, it was, there wasn't
00:46:18
Veronica Adams
Vampires are always sexy.
00:46:20
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:46:20
Pru Warren
I know.
00:46:20
Heather Roberts
There was a lot of heat, right? There lot of buildup. There lot of yearning. There was lot of, you know, emotions and sparks flying on the page.
00:46:26
Veronica Adams
el
00:46:31
Heather Roberts
But there is no, like, even the sex scenes that are in the book are not very explicit. I'll put it that way.
00:46:38
Veronica Adams
Very, very little open door.
00:46:39
Pru Warren
But they still satisfied you.
00:46:41
Heather Roberts
Yeah, i thought it was a great book.
00:46:41
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:46:42
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:46:42
Heather Roberts
And the story was fantastic.
00:46:43
Pru Warren
Yeah.
00:46:45
Heather Roberts
Truly, fantastic.
00:46:46
Pru Warren
See, that's awesome. That's awesome.
00:46:49
Heather Roberts
And I kind of like my books a little on the spicier side and I still enjoyed this very much.
00:46:49
Pru Warren
I mean,
00:46:53
Pru Warren
I do too. I do too. And I write spicy, but a good story, I don't care. Spicy, closed door, pure, Amish, I don't care. Is it a good story? that's
00:47:03
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:47:03
Pru Warren
That's all that matters.
00:47:05
Heather Roberts
Yeah. This one got me in. And I mean, vampires, you had me at vampire, but you know,
00:47:12
Veronica Adams
gonna need that on a t-shirt in the shop now kiddo you had me at vampire
00:47:15
Heather Roberts
I know.
00:47:15
Pru Warren
and
00:47:15
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:47:16
Pru Warren
You're happy be at vampires. Okay.
00:47:18
Heather Roberts
I have a sticker on my Cricut. I probably should sell them. It says support your local vampire.
00:47:24
Veronica Adams
ha ha
00:47:26
Pru Warren
You know, to this day, like, I when i know friends are coming. I'll say the the door's unlocked. Just come in. People will knock on the door and I'll say, come in, unless you're a vampire.
00:47:35
Heather Roberts
right.
00:47:35
Pru Warren
Right? Just fear that, right?
00:47:37
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:47:38
Pru Warren
Vampire can't come in if you don't invite them. I'm holding to them.
00:47:40
Veronica Adams
that's right and she's observing all of the rules here
00:47:41
Heather Roberts
That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:45
Pru Warren
one am my One of my friends opened the door and I said, unless you're vampire. She just backed away and closed it.
00:47:49
Veronica Adams
ah
00:47:51
Pru Warren
That was very funny.
00:47:51
Veronica Adams
ah we love we love a friend who's into the bit yes yeah
00:47:53
Pru Warren
Very funny. Very funny.
00:47:55
Heather Roberts
My husband likes to tell me that he's a vampire um and he like, he'll he'll go on with it for a while.
00:47:59
Pru Warren
Thank
00:48:02
Heather Roberts
So I was explaining that the, like there were in Vermont, there's actually the first vampire that was buried in Vermont and there's a whole like memorial for her and whatnot.
00:48:15
Heather Roberts
And he was like, well, what's the story? And the story is that she, I'm pretty sure she died of consumption. You can fact check me on this. I don't remember all the details. But she died of consumption and then the husband got remarried and that wife then died as well.
00:48:30
Heather Roberts
And so the husband was convinced that the first wife yeah came back and killed the the second wife, that she was a vampire.
00:48:34
Pru Warren
first wife came back.
00:48:40
Heather Roberts
So he exhumed her body and had her burned um because you know he was convinced she was a vampire. Um, so now there's like of a whole memorial for her and a whole, like the legend of the the vampire of Vermont, um, down in antivirus.
00:48:50
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:48:55
Heather Roberts
And so I was telling him that like, I want to go and and visit and whatever. and I was like, what did he say? He said something. And I was like, well, you know, it's not like true. Like there aren't like, I mean, there's it's not like there's vampires. And he looked me and he's like, how can you say that about my kind? You know, like he just went on this whole thing. was really funny.
00:49:15
Heather Roberts
So, yeah, he's committed to this as well.
00:49:17
Pru Warren
My son is a night owl and he says he's got vampire in him. And whenever whenever he's in the daylight, he goes, it burns, it burns.
00:49:25
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:49:26
Heather Roberts
This is the skin of a killer, Bella.
00:49:28
Veronica Adams
Yes.
00:49:29
Pru Warren
He wants it.
00:49:32
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we we love a vampire book over here. But yeah, I can see the, you know, science fiction, just really anything that pulls you out of reality these days.
00:49:39
Veronica Adams
We have a special guest.
00:49:40
Pru Warren
Agreed. Yes, that's my cat.
00:49:42
Heather Roberts
Yes.
00:49:43
Pru Warren
She's going to show you her tail and she'll probably whack it in my face, but I'm going to pretend she's not really here.
00:49:49
Veronica Adams
I wish any of mine would come hang out when we were recording the podcast. They're all jerks who want nothing to do with my workspace.
00:49:53
Heather Roberts
yeah
00:49:55
Pru Warren
Mine talks a lot, so if I suddenly hit mute, that's why.
00:50:01
Heather Roberts
You're all good.
00:50:02
Pru Warren
but
00:50:03
Heather Roberts
man. Any big plans for this weekend? and We record on Fridays for those listening.
00:50:08
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:50:09
Pru Warren
My plans for this weekend are, I really think I'm going to get back to Timothy.
Upcoming Works and Conclusion
00:50:14
Pru Warren
I'm going to get back to book four.
00:50:16
Veronica Adams
Nice.
00:50:16
Pru Warren
um I've got a good, I got a good buy. always like, um all my people are billionaires, obviously, so they've got way too much money. So my quest is to find out how I can sort of, you know, put them through the wringer. How can, how, how, what situations occur where money is not the solution?
00:50:35
Heather Roberts
Yeah.
00:50:36
Pru Warren
And i'm I'm having him, he's kind of a larcenous guy. So I'm having him vaguely break the law. And eventually toward the end, he's going to have to realize the error of his ways. Thanks the love of a good woman, obviously.
00:50:50
Heather Roberts
Of course.
00:50:50
Pru Warren
oh He's a DC lobbyist and I'm throwing him out West.
00:50:54
Veronica Adams
no
00:50:54
Pru Warren
He's going to have to take camping trips with a, and sort literally, literally, or something.
00:50:57
Veronica Adams
Oh, horse out of water or fish out of water, horse off the trail.
00:50:59
Heather Roberts
Yeah. There's that water.
00:51:01
Veronica Adams
Horse out of water.
00:51:02
Heather Roberts
There's that water.
00:51:03
Pru Warren
Horse out a tree. That's right. um He thinks he's going to be fine because he has strings of polo ponies. He's very wealthy. So he thinks he's going to be fine.
00:51:11
Veronica Adams
big cowboys.
00:51:12
Pru Warren
He's not. So i think i'm gonna I think I'm going to play with that. I think this this weekend might be immersed in the land of Timothy, which entertains me.
00:51:21
Veronica Adams
How fun.
00:51:23
Pru Warren
My books are, although it's not a big deal, i the first book I wrote, the one that you helped me to launch, Heather, was Sin and the Peanut Butter Cup, Sin short for Cynthia, beginning with C.
00:51:36
Pru Warren
The second one in that series was Dash and the Moonglow Mystic. And when I realized that I'd written in alphabetical order, C and D, and I could not only put them on my shelf in regular order, but also in alphabetical order, ah then the next one was Alan and the fourth one was Farah.
00:51:42
Heather Roberts
Oh
00:51:50
Pru Warren
So without making a big deal out of it, I've continued it through most of the books. The heiresses were Grace, Hannah and Ivy. um
00:51:59
Heather Roberts
my God.
00:52:00
Pru Warren
Cupid's Quest series was Joss and what i I don't remember. Anyway, it's alphabetical. So now I'm up to um the first book in the bad attitude billionaires is Quinn, followed by Regina, followed by Suzanne. And now I'm up to Timothy, followed by Ursula, and it will go all the way down to Zachary.
00:52:18
Pru Warren
So Timothy
00:52:19
Heather Roberts
Are you then gonna circle back for and
00:52:22
Pru Warren
I've never had an A and B, so I think I'm going to have to. But the question is, I'm going to do a Steph, a Heather, and a Veronica in the next series, so how's this going to fit?
00:52:24
Veronica Adams
Yeah.
00:52:27
Veronica Adams
Yeah, thank you.
00:52:31
Heather Roberts
I love it, i love it.
00:52:34
Pru Warren
Me too.
00:52:34
Heather Roberts
Well, you you are the absolute best, Prue. I am so grateful paul that you came on here and chatted with us for a while.
00:52:39
Veronica Adams
yeah thank you
00:52:41
Pru Warren
Just a lot of gab, and I'm just amusing myself.
00:52:44
Heather Roberts
Yeah, we do the same thing, so that's all said, but.
00:52:44
Pru Warren
That's my goal. Good. Good. Good.
00:52:49
Heather Roberts
Well, I thank you again. and for those who want to find Prue, you can do so on Amazon. She is in Kindle Unlimited.
00:52:58
Pru Warren
i am
00:52:58
Heather Roberts
And, you know, shoot her a message. As you can tell, she's hilarious and she loves joy.
00:53:02
Veronica Adams
She is.
00:53:03
Pru Warren
Love to chat.
00:53:03
Heather Roberts
So, yes.
00:53:05
Pru Warren
Prue at pruwarrant.com. Yap, yap, yap. And I'll answer questions. I'll make things up. Go ahead. what do you want to know?
00:53:11
Heather Roberts
Exactly. So go check out her books and thank you all for listening.