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Logical Fallacies Part 2
306 Plays5 months ago
Originally released as bonus content for our Patreon queens, the Bonus Queens dive deeper into the manipulative tactics commonly used in debates about dating, relationships, and gender dynamics.
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Transcript
Introduction to Logical Fallacies Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the bonus content queens.
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome back.
00:00:05
Speaker
And as promised we have part two of our logical fallacy series getting philosophical
Emotional Manipulation and Fallacies
00:00:11
Speaker
again.
00:00:11
Speaker
Yeah knowing how to take apart arguments without subcoming to the emotional tricks that play on you.
00:00:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:19
Speaker
And I think it's also recognizing when you're being emotionally manipulated and when you're probably arguing with... I always find in life, you have to pick your bowels, right?
00:00:28
Speaker
And I always find if people resort to things like ad hominem or misrepresenting my argument, I don't mean to sound this in the snobby way, but it gives me an indication that perhaps this person isn't really worth engaging with because they're not actually engaging with what I'm saying.
00:00:43
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:00:43
Speaker
I don't have a problem being a snob.
00:00:45
Speaker
I am a snob.
00:00:46
Speaker
Intellectual snob.
00:00:48
Speaker
International snob unite.
00:00:51
Speaker
And values snob.
00:00:52
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't mean I'm going to be rude, but I do have like a sort of hierarchy
Intellectual Laziness in the Information Age
00:00:57
Speaker
for people.
00:00:57
Speaker
If I happen to talk with somebody who is mean or is engaging in bad faith arguments, it's not good.
00:01:04
Speaker
I'm going to slap his face, but you know, why would I waste energy there?
00:01:08
Speaker
That's it.
00:01:08
Speaker
And you'll see a lot of people on the internet, especially who do this.
00:01:11
Speaker
And I do feel like, I don't know, again, I don't know what life was like when before the internet, but I feel like people should be more enlightened and more knowledgeable because we have the internet.
00:01:23
Speaker
But I don't know about you, Patricia, I feel like we're going backwards.
00:01:26
Speaker
I really do.
00:01:28
Speaker
Exposure to information doesn't make you more smart.
00:01:32
Speaker
It makes you more stupid.
00:01:33
Speaker
I actually was listening to an intellectual crazy podcast, and they were talking about how when writing was invented, you can correlate that to today's reels or stupid memes.
00:01:44
Speaker
There was a lot of literature about absolutely nothing and stupid things, and that was the popular one.
00:01:49
Speaker
So...
00:01:50
Speaker
No, information doesn't make people smarter on its own.
00:01:53
Speaker
It's your choice.
00:01:55
Speaker
Or access to more information.
00:01:56
Speaker
I just feel it's not about reading.
00:01:58
Speaker
A lot of people
Logical Fallacies in Online Discourse
00:01:59
Speaker
just clearly just don't read.
00:02:01
Speaker
And it's like we have books online now.
00:02:03
Speaker
You don't have to step foot in a library anymore, which I think is possibly a bad thing, because I feel like if people wanted knowledge previously, they'd have to actively seek it out.
00:02:12
Speaker
But it almost feels like we get it in our homes and then we just do nothing with it.
00:02:16
Speaker
It's just made us lazy.
00:02:17
Speaker
I don't know.
00:02:18
Speaker
You still need to actively seek it out, but the active is like putting your thumbs on a screen.
00:02:23
Speaker
So it's a lot less effort.
00:02:25
Speaker
Also, I will say I do have like my ability to read has dwindled over the years.
00:02:30
Speaker
Same.
00:02:31
Speaker
But I can listen to like a very long like series of, you know, lectures.
00:02:36
Speaker
as podcasts, as audiobook and books, and a lot of these things are available online.
00:02:41
Speaker
So it really is up to us.
00:02:43
Speaker
Like, I will say honestly, about the logical fallacies, it is a subject that I might have been curious about in the past, but maybe thought that it would be like a too big of a learning curve for me to engage in.
00:02:53
Speaker
So I'm happy for you doing this introductory.
Slippery Slope and Male Loneliness Narratives
00:02:55
Speaker
And also, you know, in the context that you're presenting here that it's not like we're saying like, you know, FDS doesn't support arguing with people who aren't worth your time.
00:03:04
Speaker
But sometimes even your friends or even people who are quote unquote on your side or your inner circle might be, you know, affected with an A with these logical fallacies.
00:03:14
Speaker
And then you can, you know, enlighten them or like you all can be more enlightened together by understanding how your mind is also based on these fallacies or your way of engaging with reality.
00:03:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:03:27
Speaker
Well said, as always, Patricia.
00:03:29
Speaker
So the next one is the slippery slope.
00:03:32
Speaker
As I like to say, the slippery slope has slupped.
00:03:34
Speaker
So the slippery slope fallacy is the suggestion that a small action will lead to an extreme negative outcome.
00:03:42
Speaker
So an example of this is basically if women have high standards and no one will get married and the population will die out.
00:03:51
Speaker
And we see this coming through articles such as the male loneliness pandemic, right?
00:03:56
Speaker
For example,
00:03:57
Speaker
Epidemic, pandemic.
00:03:58
Speaker
Which one's greater, Patricia?
00:04:00
Speaker
Is it epidemic?
00:04:01
Speaker
Is it pandemic?
Historical Survival Instincts and Modern Parallels
00:04:02
Speaker
Is it bigger?
00:04:02
Speaker
Are you asking me or are you asking Google?
00:04:04
Speaker
I was asking you.
00:04:06
Speaker
Oh, me?
00:04:06
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:08
Speaker
okay epidemic such pandemic so basically the male loneliness problem also as an aside it also forgets that a lot of women are very lonely as well but anyway that's an aside so it's basically used against women to trick us into settling by basically saying well if you don't settle and you know have four kids with a guy humanity will die out when actually i sort of feel like this is a massive red herring because again i'm just guessing here but if we go back to our
00:04:34
Speaker
dear ancestors in the hunter-gatherers, they most likely procreated with people who had the best chances of survival.
00:04:41
Speaker
Survival being, you know, people who could hunt, people who could find food, people who could keep them safe, right?
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, people who are also well-connected socially, because I think I would imagine back in those times, being liked meant access to resources.
00:04:57
Speaker
And I think that's why we're also very inclined to notice when we're not liked.
00:05:01
Speaker
Because our mind is like, oh, if the clan doesn't like me, I'm not going to get fed and I'm going to die.
00:05:06
Speaker
And it still exists in a certain way today.
00:05:09
Speaker
Obviously, it's not as extreme.
00:05:11
Speaker
But obviously, if you're part of a community, if you are well liked in your community, then you will have better outcomes than somebody who isn't.
00:05:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:20
Speaker
And good jobs, good apartments, they come through word of mouth.
00:05:23
Speaker
And what is word of mouth is people liking you and wanting to help you.
00:05:26
Speaker
That is exactly, exactly.
World Population and Cultural Expectations Discussion
00:05:28
Speaker
So going back to the slippery slope fallacy, in some respects, is it a slippery slope?
00:05:33
Speaker
I mean, the population of the world is absolutely massive.
00:05:35
Speaker
So even if
00:05:37
Speaker
you know, it reduced by a couple million, I don't think it would make a massive difference in terms of resources.
00:05:43
Speaker
And it probably does need to reduce.
00:05:45
Speaker
I'm not saying eugenics or we need to artificially reduce it.
00:05:49
Speaker
But if people have fewer children, it may not necessarily be a bad thing from a resource point of view.
00:05:54
Speaker
You know, an example is that the cemeteries in London are getting full.
00:05:57
Speaker
So they're having to bury people in woodlands on the edge of the M25 because there's just no space anymore.
00:06:03
Speaker
I mean, cemeteries are on its own like a really interesting pickle because people get worried over centuries, but they're not going anywhere, you know, and people who come to their graves are already long gone.
00:06:13
Speaker
So that's an interesting on its own.
00:06:15
Speaker
But to address the main point here, I think the specific argument of like, oh, the human race will die out.
00:06:21
Speaker
First of all, there's a bit of an impact there.
00:06:23
Speaker
First of all, the world, usually we people who live in the West, what we call the world is not the world.
00:06:29
Speaker
It's like 30% of the world, maybe.
00:06:31
Speaker
There are a lot of parts of the world that we don't even consider when we say things about the world.
00:06:36
Speaker
That's the first thing.
00:06:37
Speaker
Secondly, more to the point, and I think this is something that was addressed more deeply in a prior episode, this movement of people, specifically women, having less children as their quality of life increases is a serious thing that is happening.
00:06:53
Speaker
And society's approach to that, to make women marry,
00:06:58
Speaker
Like if you look at now trying to ban abortions in the state, that's what it's about.
00:07:02
Speaker
No-fault divorce, that's what it's about.
00:07:03
Speaker
Things that are happening in Japan that we discussed in prior episodes, like trying to coerce women into dating, sorry, marrying, financial incentives to having children and stuff like that.
00:07:13
Speaker
That is not the way.
00:07:14
Speaker
People are opting out of something if it's not good for them.
00:07:17
Speaker
They're voting with their
Partner Choices and Generational Impact
00:07:18
Speaker
legs.
00:07:18
Speaker
I don't know if you have that expression, but people are having less children or they're getting married less because they think that being alone is better for them and it's going to make their life more comfortable.
00:07:29
Speaker
And you know what?
00:07:30
Speaker
That is like a research-based fact.
00:07:32
Speaker
So the way to do that is not to tell people, tell women, oh, you have to do this because otherwise.
00:07:39
Speaker
That is not the way.
00:07:40
Speaker
The way to do that is to make that option more attractive.
00:07:44
Speaker
And we in FDS say, like, if a man is sexually attractive, doesn't know how to treat women, is audacious, disrespectful, basically a scrote, he will be, he should be selected out of the gene pool.
00:07:55
Speaker
I have no tears for him.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:59
Speaker
This is what I was going to say.
00:08:00
Speaker
Like, I don't think it will cause humanity to go extinct.
00:08:03
Speaker
I think the opposite.
00:08:03
Speaker
If you procreate with people who have, you know, strong genes, good attitudes, good values, you know, that's then going to be passed down and it will make the human race better and stronger.
00:08:14
Speaker
And not only passed down, but like also if you think about environmental factors, you are more likely to have a household that is happy, healthy, you know, has good communication, good values.
00:08:23
Speaker
And then you will more likely have well-adjusted children that will be beneficial to society, all that kind of stuff.
00:08:30
Speaker
That's not going to happen if you marry a total scroed because you don't want to be alone.
00:08:33
Speaker
Because I've seen it in my family, Patricia, like the scrotery has caused so many generational, like it's not even just affecting them.
00:08:42
Speaker
So I'll give an example.
00:08:43
Speaker
So my grandfather had, how many kids he got?
00:08:46
Speaker
Maybe 16.
00:08:47
Speaker
Dang.
00:08:47
Speaker
Actually, no, I'm doing the totals.
00:08:51
Speaker
So my maternal grandfather had nine children by five different women.
00:08:55
Speaker
And my maternal grandmother, she has about...
00:08:59
Speaker
the same number of kids with three different men, right?
00:09:02
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, no, polygamy is really bad in Nigeria.
00:09:04
Speaker
Same with my paternal grandfather.
00:09:06
Speaker
He had a whole second family.
00:09:08
Speaker
So my dad was the youngest of five, officially, but my paternal grandfather then had three more kids with another woman.
00:09:14
Speaker
So my dad was technically one of eight, but he never acknowledged that family, bless him.
00:09:18
Speaker
But yeah, anyway...
00:09:19
Speaker
And even to this day, even though my grandparents, they're long, apart from my maternal grandmother, she's still alive, but all my other grandparents are deceased, but you still see the problems that that has caused in the family to this day.
00:09:32
Speaker
And it's affecting, you know, their children, their grandchildren, great-grandchildren.
00:09:36
Speaker
It's just generational impact, right?
00:09:39
Speaker
And to think if they just hadn't have done that, that it would have been
00:09:43
Speaker
a nicer experience for their descendants as well.
00:09:45
Speaker
So, you know, your choice of partner
Generational Trauma and Responsibility
00:09:48
Speaker
as a woman, and also, I guess, like my grandmother didn't choose to be with, you know, cheating men, but even still, but basically your choice of partner doesn't just impact you, it will impact your children, your grandchildren, great, great grandchildren, and it can go down a long way in the line of your descendants, you know?
00:10:04
Speaker
Definitely.
00:10:04
Speaker
This is where the very real, for me, concept of generational trauma comes in.
00:10:09
Speaker
Because my mom was insecure, so she chose a man who was very, God bless my dad, but he had issues.
00:10:16
Speaker
And so my brother and I have issues.
00:10:19
Speaker
I think I worked on my issues more than my brother.
00:10:22
Speaker
But you see what I mean?
00:10:24
Speaker
It's kind of like you have to zoom in, really shed a light on what's going on with you, and then...
00:10:31
Speaker
try to move in reality in a way that is healthy as much as you can.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:36
Speaker
Because even like the good dads, like, you know, my dad, I'd say was a very excellent dad, but I can now see some of the effects that now he's passed away.
00:10:44
Speaker
I can now see the impact of some of the decisions that he made when he was alive.
00:10:48
Speaker
You know, they're now coming out in quite a potent way and it's not like a destructive way.
00:10:53
Speaker
So just imagine, right.
00:10:54
Speaker
If my mom had chosen an absolute non-starter scrote, just imagine just how bad that would have been.
00:10:58
Speaker
You know, I recognize that parents are, you know, my dad wasn't perfect.
00:11:01
Speaker
Parents are also figuring, they'll never tell you this, but parents are also sort of making up as they go along.
00:11:06
Speaker
They don't always know what they're doing.
00:11:08
Speaker
Of course.
00:11:09
Speaker
And they can get it wrong as a result, but rather than admit, I don't know what I'm doing, they'll just say, well, I'm the parent.
00:11:13
Speaker
So, you know, that's it.
00:11:16
Speaker
This is why they called it's called generational trauma, because they're acting in this way because, you know, they also had difficult childhoods.
00:11:24
Speaker
Like my parents grew up in the former Soviet Union.
00:11:26
Speaker
I think I told this before.
00:11:27
Speaker
My dad quit smoking at age 12.
00:11:30
Speaker
Just saying.
00:11:31
Speaker
Wait, so he became a smoking addict and then managed to quit by the time he was 12, before he was a teenager?
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:39
Speaker
Like, you know, he didn't like people smoking.
00:11:40
Speaker
So I was like, he always said, like, I quit at 12.
00:11:43
Speaker
And one time I was like, so when did you start?
00:11:45
Speaker
He started at five, just, you know, walking down the streets and like Eastern Russia, picking up almost done cigarette butts and smoking them.
00:11:53
Speaker
But then at age 12, he understood that that's a bad habit.
00:11:56
Speaker
Like, you know, this is just the skim, like the tip of the iceberg.
00:11:59
Speaker
His childhood was traumatic in a very real way.
00:12:02
Speaker
So I don't hold it against him that he had anger issues.
00:12:05
Speaker
I'm just looking at how that affected me and what I can do to deal with that, to clear that, to have compassion for where he was as a human being.
00:12:14
Speaker
Same for my mom.
00:12:15
Speaker
So it's super important to do this stuff in any way that you want.
00:12:19
Speaker
You know, you can be with a therapist.
00:12:20
Speaker
It can be something that you do on your own.
00:12:22
Speaker
But that's very important so that you can make better choices for the future.
00:12:26
Speaker
And another thing as well, I think that's completely right, Patricia,
Societal Pressures on Women in Relationships
00:12:29
Speaker
but if we look at the examples of our mums and our grandmothers and stuff like that, you'll notice that, you know, they didn't deliberately seek out a scrote to procreate with, right?
00:12:39
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:12:40
Speaker
And so, you know, people say, oh, women like having like the highest standards is going to lead to, you know, humanity dying out.
00:12:48
Speaker
I'm not necessarily referring to, you know, the cases where the scrote is a cheat or, you know, like my maternal grandmother, he basically jilted her at the altar and like left her with a kid on her own.
00:12:59
Speaker
But I'm just saying like, you know, if you've got an active choice, you want to choose a good partner.
00:13:04
Speaker
That is not a bad thing.
00:13:05
Speaker
It's not.
00:13:06
Speaker
And if you're not going to do it for yourself, do it for your future children and grandchildren.
00:13:10
Speaker
Because I always think that one of the best gifts a woman can give to her children is a good dad.
00:13:15
Speaker
Wow.
00:13:17
Speaker
I like that.
00:13:18
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:13:19
Speaker
That sounds very true.
00:13:20
Speaker
Rings true.
00:13:21
Speaker
So yeah, I'll caveat this doesn't necessarily apply to, you know, men who switch up because they can and do like move mad.
00:13:26
Speaker
I'm talking about, you know, doing the best you can to ensure that you're choosing a good partner with the information that you have in front of you, if that makes sense.
00:13:36
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I would say even more, this is not a disservice to the male gender.
00:13:40
Speaker
This is a service to the male gender, because they also don't want to be getting away with stupid shit.
00:13:47
Speaker
There is like an unsatisfactory essence in a life where you can do stupid shit and people around you are like, yeah, okay, nobody wants that.
00:13:54
Speaker
Men also want to be better and you're helping them be better.
00:13:57
Speaker
And of course, within FDS, we're saying like, if we as women, like as a female class impose these standards, then we're
00:14:03
Speaker
hopefully lifting the whole gender or our environment.
00:14:07
Speaker
Hopefully.
00:14:08
Speaker
That's a theory, at least.
00:14:10
Speaker
And also, you know, just off the back of what Patricia said as well, like men don't want to be settled for.
00:14:14
Speaker
Like they might say, oh, please give the ugly guy a chance, but they also don't like it.
00:14:19
Speaker
And understandably, you know, when they find out the woman that they've been with for 10 years doesn't actually find them physically attractive, they don't want to be settled for either.
00:14:27
Speaker
So, you know, like Patricia said, if you have standards, you're actually doing, you know, the men that you're not compatible with a favor because you're not settling for them, which is an even bigger insult and an even bigger pain to deal with.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, people want to be wanted, want to be wanted, want to be chosen, want to be valued.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're not doing anybody a favor by settling for something that you don't want.
00:14:49
Speaker
And this is why I've never understood, you know, why men are so invested in debating down women's standard.
00:14:54
Speaker
It's like, why do you want to be settled for?
00:14:56
Speaker
No one deserves that.
00:14:57
Speaker
Teacher, can I ask a question?
00:14:58
Speaker
You may.
00:14:59
Speaker
When you say men are invested, who do you mean?
00:15:02
Speaker
Do you mean a Redditors?
00:15:03
Speaker
Like, where does that meet you in life?
00:15:05
Speaker
I think the general narrative, I wouldn't say it's just Reddit.
00:15:08
Speaker
I think it's sort of everywhere in that women are sort of either directly pressured, indirectly pressured into settling for a man.
00:15:17
Speaker
And I could do a whole episode on this because it's not just dating discourse, but I think things like the economy, it pushes women into settling.
00:15:24
Speaker
So it's very expensive to live on your own.
00:15:27
Speaker
And if women are on average earning less because of many reasons,
00:15:31
Speaker
then it's going to be more appealing for them to settle for a guy just so they can split the bills with them because it's cheaper.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, that is true.
00:15:37
Speaker
I saw that.
00:15:38
Speaker
I read that article that you sent.
00:15:40
Speaker
So yeah, we'll cover that in a future episode.
00:15:42
Speaker
But I think it's a lot of things.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's not just men on Reddit.
00:15:44
Speaker
I think, you know, men on Reddit are the most potent and the most vocal, perhaps.
00:15:48
Speaker
But I think it's insidious everywhere.
00:15:50
Speaker
I mean, I would love to learn more about that because like I'm living in a bubble.
00:15:55
Speaker
So people around me don't talk like that, but I'm sure that is still apparent through the socialization and the media that I'm consuming.
00:16:00
Speaker
So I would love to, you know, maybe it's like an invisible cage that I'm in.
00:16:05
Speaker
I would love to be able to see the cage poles better.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:08
Speaker
So the appeal to emotion.
00:16:12
Speaker
And I think this is a logical fallacy that women also engage in as much as men.
00:16:19
Speaker
Emotions are a powerful thing.
00:16:20
Speaker
You've spoken about this before, but from at its core, it's about using emotions instead of logic to argue.
00:16:27
Speaker
And we've spoken about this in the previous episode where we understand that, you know, when you're in a romantic relationship, emotions can be hard and they can get involved and they can cloud your judgment.
00:16:37
Speaker
However, I think that we as women, you know, we can emotionally almost blackmail ourselves into seeing the best in men.
00:16:46
Speaker
And that's often to our detriment.
00:16:48
Speaker
I hear you.
00:16:49
Speaker
And I remember when FDS first came out and we had, I think FDS might have, it was very direct in the early days and it still somewhat is.
00:16:57
Speaker
But I remember the Daily Mail did an article about us and saying, oh, they're so mean.
00:17:01
Speaker
They don't want to date men who are mentally ill or who've got, you know, mental health issues or this kind of man or that type of man.
00:17:07
Speaker
Sorry, not sorry.
Mental Health and Partner Compatibility
00:17:08
Speaker
I do not.
00:17:08
Speaker
LAUGHTER
00:17:10
Speaker
There you go.
00:17:11
Speaker
Maybe Patricia wrote that post that was blasted.
00:17:14
Speaker
Maybe it was you.
00:17:15
Speaker
And again, this is nothing against people who have got poor mental health.
00:17:19
Speaker
My heart goes out to them.
00:17:20
Speaker
But I think when you're choosing a life partner, it makes sense to want to choose somebody who you feel is going to be compatible with your lifestyle.
00:17:28
Speaker
And dealing with any kind of sickness or illness or disability or any kind of attribute that you feel is not conducive to your lifestyle is going to make your life a lot harder than it needs to be.
00:17:38
Speaker
That's an aside.
00:17:39
Speaker
Yes, but there is a spectrum.
00:17:40
Speaker
So if a person had some mental health issues and he was able to deal with that and he has clarity about what happened, why, and how he dealt with it, how he will not fall into the same holes in the past, I respect that.
00:17:53
Speaker
Like we all, you know, have complex problems.
00:17:56
Speaker
pasts and experiences.
00:17:58
Speaker
But having said that, if I'm seeing somebody and I realize that he's manic because he's taken a lot of drugs or that he's depressed, but he's comfortable there and he's not doing anything about that.
00:18:10
Speaker
So indeed, this is where the fallacy that you're presenting comes in.
00:18:13
Speaker
The motivation is not going to be, well, I should continue dating him because poor guy.
00:18:18
Speaker
That is not a valid thing because like you say, pussy is not a social cause, right?
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:23
Speaker
you're entitled to date somebody that you actually are compatible with and adds value to your life.
00:18:28
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:28
Speaker
And I really appreciate that caveat as well.
00:18:30
Speaker
Because yeah, again, it goes back to the idea that women are just mean for excluding men, you know, for any reason.
00:18:37
Speaker
And you don't have to justify yourself.
00:18:38
Speaker
If you only want to date and marry men who were born at 12pm on a Tuesday and were ripped from their mother's womb in an untimely fashion, i.e.
00:18:48
Speaker
born by cesarean section, that's entirely all right.
00:18:51
Speaker
What?
00:18:51
Speaker
What was that?
00:18:53
Speaker
Oh, I see, I see, I see.
00:18:56
Speaker
It's a line from Macbeth.
00:18:58
Speaker
So, okay, you've asked.
00:19:00
Speaker
You're going to get the full answer now.
00:19:01
Speaker
So Macbeth was a king of Scotland.
00:19:04
Speaker
I'm remembering it in bits, but they basically said that he would be killed by a man who was not born of a woman.
00:19:12
Speaker
And the plot twist was that the man who eventually killed him was born by Caesarian section, so he wasn't born by a natural birth.
00:19:20
Speaker
And that was...
00:19:21
Speaker
Okay, so Macduff, he basically says as he drives a knife into Macbeth's heart, it's like, and from my mother's womb, I was untimely ripped.
00:19:29
Speaker
So I was born by cesarean section.
00:19:31
Speaker
Dang.
00:19:33
Speaker
And that was how Macbeth died, basically.
00:19:35
Speaker
That was a great example of an extremely specific standard.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, Studio Civic reference.
00:19:41
Speaker
Nice.
00:19:42
Speaker
So there was that.
00:19:43
Speaker
And that's entirely all right.
00:19:44
Speaker
I think because, you know, as long as you're not an arsehole to people who were born by a natural birth or born on any other day of the week,
Scarcity Misconception and Partner Standards
00:19:50
Speaker
that's fine.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think this fallacy is a great example and kind of like emblematic.
00:19:57
Speaker
for the other ones, because basically that's what we're saying.
00:19:59
Speaker
These kind of fallacies, what makes them fallacies a lot of the times is that they appeal to emotion, and then that triggers you into responding and engaging with them, but actually we're inviting you to look at the actual logical substance of them.
00:20:13
Speaker
And so this also ties back to the former one for me, when you're saying, oh, well, if you don't marry men who are not as great and can't pack their own lunch, then the human race will dwindle, and that will be on you, woman.
00:20:28
Speaker
So in the same way, like, oh, but if you don't date men who are depressed or who have a drug abuse problem and have no inclination to deal with that, then what will happen to those guys?
00:20:37
Speaker
Well, you know what?
00:20:37
Speaker
That's not my problem, first of all.
00:20:40
Speaker
And also I find as well, like, I feel like women have a long way to go.
00:20:44
Speaker
So when people think, oh, what about all the broke unemployed men?
00:20:47
Speaker
From what I've seen on the Are We Date in the same guide groups, Patricia, there are some women who will entertain them.
00:20:52
Speaker
So they'll be just fine.
00:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's very easy to succumb into a perception of, well, there are no good guys or good guys are so few and far between.
00:21:02
Speaker
So if I find one, I should really hold tight.
00:21:04
Speaker
And you know what?
00:21:05
Speaker
That's so not true.
00:21:07
Speaker
I held that belief for such a long time.
00:21:09
Speaker
And really, if you hold yourself high, if you have in mind what you want and you engage with reality in a way that, you know,
00:21:16
Speaker
shows how much you respect yourself and how much your boundaries are clear, you will have no worry.
00:21:23
Speaker
Like you will have many options and then you just need to choose.
00:21:26
Speaker
It's all good.
00:21:27
Speaker
You know, there aren't a lot of eligible men out there, but they do exist and they're looking for you.
00:21:32
Speaker
So it's all good.
00:21:33
Speaker
Agreed.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:34
Speaker
Thanks, Patricia.
00:21:36
Speaker
So yeah, on to the next one.
00:21:39
Speaker
So this is the no true Scotsman fallacy.
00:21:43
Speaker
And this is essentially where you dismiss almost counter examples by redefining the group.
00:21:51
Speaker
So I'll give an example from the BDSM community because they do this an awful lot and they do it as a way to escape accountability for abusers in the scene.
00:22:00
Speaker
If a dominant abuses a sub, right, usually a male dom abusing a female sub, right, a lot of people say, oh, they're not a real dominant.
00:22:08
Speaker
And it's like, well, actually, you know, who's to say they're not a real dominant?
00:22:11
Speaker
Because being a dominant is not a protected characteristic.
00:22:15
Speaker
I mean, you can say, you know, I'm not a real doctor because I don't have a degree or a medical license or whatever, right, because there's a defined definition of who can have the term doctor in front of their name, usually.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like a cope mechanism where you create distance from something so that it doesn't have to shed a negative light on you.
00:22:33
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:22:35
Speaker
And the no true Scotsman fallacy is, you know, we see this in dating, you know, where women are told, well, if you have a career, then you're not feminine, or you're not submissive enough, or you're not wifey material, if you want to be independent.
00:22:46
Speaker
And that is all nonsense, quite frankly.
00:22:50
Speaker
Sorry, can you explain again how this example showcases the fallacy?
00:22:53
Speaker
It showcases it because, for example, if a woman is independent, career-minded, people will say that she's not wifey material, even though there are plenty of men who will happily date women who are career-minded, independent, driven, ambitious, etc.
00:23:07
Speaker
And so, you know, they would say, oh, you know, basically dismiss her as being a wife material based on their own preferences and understanding of what it means to be a wife, if that makes sense.
00:23:18
Speaker
Interesting.
00:23:19
Speaker
So they take their own preferences and expand that unrightfully on the whole group?
00:23:24
Speaker
Yes, and then dismiss other options that may not fit their view.
00:23:29
Speaker
Aha.
00:23:29
Speaker
So how do you deal with this fallacy?
00:23:31
Speaker
How do you debunk it?
00:23:33
Speaker
I just ignore it, number one, because ultimately, in the context of dating, if a guy is saying like, oh, your career, or, you know, if you want to work on your career, if you want to have money, then you're not feminine.
00:23:44
Speaker
It's like, well, it just shows that we're not compatible.
00:23:46
Speaker
Because again, there are plenty of men who value that ambition and driving career and career mindedness in a woman because they're usually the same.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's just like not the person for me.
00:23:56
Speaker
Like if I'm dating somebody and he has issue with me having male friends, it's just not the person for me.
00:24:02
Speaker
It's just not what I want in life.
00:24:04
Speaker
Exactly,
Community Standards vs. Personal Preferences
00:24:05
Speaker
exactly.
00:24:05
Speaker
So, you know, I suppose you could apply it to FDS principles when we say like high value and low value men.
00:24:11
Speaker
But one thing that FDS has always said is that ultimately, you know, what makes a man high or low value in part depends on your own preferences.
00:24:21
Speaker
So I think there's a non-negotiable, so we can't be abusive, you know, not a porn addict, etc.
00:24:27
Speaker
But for example, a high value man who likes to go hiking every weekend, in the meantime, you know, you like going, you know, on the big massive holidays to Dubai or to the Caribbean, and he's not interested in that.
00:24:40
Speaker
You know, he might be objectively high value, but he may not be high value for you, if that makes sense.
00:24:45
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that he's not a high value man.
00:24:48
Speaker
He's just not compatible with you.
00:24:49
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:24:50
Speaker
Or he may not be compatible with you.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, it depends what you want, right?
00:24:53
Speaker
If he wants somebody to join him and you want somebody to join you, then that's a bit of an issue.
00:24:59
Speaker
And you don't want to join each other.
00:25:00
Speaker
That might be a bit of an issue.
00:25:02
Speaker
You know, that's just an example.
00:25:03
Speaker
But yeah.
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah, like for instance, I go to Burns usually in the summer.
00:25:07
Speaker
Like I'm a proud member of the Burn community.
00:25:10
Speaker
I love it.
00:25:10
Speaker
It's a significant part of my life.
00:25:12
Speaker
That's like where I feel most at home.
00:25:14
Speaker
And that's where I can express my creativity and have fun with friends and just have a ball and, you know, lose my mind a little bit.
00:25:21
Speaker
And I am completely comfortable with being partnered with somebody who doesn't go to burns.
00:25:26
Speaker
I'm totally fine with that.
00:25:28
Speaker
But he does need to be respectful and appreciative of me going to them.
00:25:33
Speaker
So that is the value for me.
00:25:35
Speaker
But maybe my other burner friends want to only be with the burner.
00:25:39
Speaker
So yeah, it really depends.
00:25:40
Speaker
I don't know if I got this fallacy like all the way through, but maybe I should like let it roll around in my mind a bit.
00:25:45
Speaker
The no true Scotsman fallacy.
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, let it marinate.
00:25:48
Speaker
Because I think out of all the fallacy, this one is the most difficult to get a grasp on because it's a lot more subtle.
00:25:55
Speaker
Because ultimately, it comes down to semantics, right?
00:25:57
Speaker
So for example, if I go back to my BDSM example, ideally, a dominant should be, you know, should essentially care about their submissive, right?
00:26:05
Speaker
And you know, they should do right by them.
00:26:07
Speaker
People assume that that is now an objective standard when it's not.
00:26:10
Speaker
There's nothing...
00:26:11
Speaker
you know, a dominant doesn't need a license to practice as a dominant.
00:26:15
Speaker
Anyone can just say they're a dominant and you can't really challenge that because there's no objective standard.
00:26:20
Speaker
And so this one really deals with sort of, you know, semantics in a way.
00:26:24
Speaker
And it leads in nicely to our next one in terms of the appeal to popularity, which is
00:26:29
Speaker
This is the one that gets on my nerves the most and I'd say triggers me the most.
00:26:34
Speaker
And it's essentially arguing that something is right or true because a lot of people believe it to be right or true.
00:26:40
Speaker
The reason why it triggers me though is because a lot of people, again, my intellectual snobbery is coming out.
00:26:46
Speaker
I feel this is a safe space since Patricia said it.
00:26:48
Speaker
Intellectual snobbery, like coming out, a lot of people are
Critical Thinking Against Popular Beliefs
00:26:52
Speaker
sheep.
00:26:52
Speaker
A lot of people don't think for themselves.
00:26:54
Speaker
A lot of people just basically follow the crowd.
00:26:57
Speaker
Just because a lot of people believe something, that doesn't mean it's correct.
00:27:00
Speaker
At one point, majority of people believed that the earth was flat.
00:27:04
Speaker
That wasn't correct.
00:27:05
Speaker
And we see this a lot in dating again.
00:27:07
Speaker
It sort of comes back to other women as well, policing down women's standards.
00:27:11
Speaker
So, for example, a common one is, oh, you'll never find a guy who doesn't watch porn.
00:27:15
Speaker
So therefore, you know, you should part up with porn in a relationship.
00:27:18
Speaker
It's normal.
00:27:19
Speaker
And it's like, well, just because a lot of people do something, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
00:27:23
Speaker
It just means that it's popular.
00:27:25
Speaker
But popularity isn't the same as something being right, true or good.
00:27:29
Speaker
Definitely.
00:27:31
Speaker
I think moreover in today's world, it's not that everybody believes the same things.
00:27:34
Speaker
But indeed, as you say, it's easy for people to accept a certain dogma or certain belief.
00:27:40
Speaker
And just flow with it, especially if it's presented in a way that is emotionally attractive and kind of like catches them.
00:27:47
Speaker
And they don't, you know, apply the critical thinking needed to observe each and every one of the facets of this dogma or of this approach and see if it actually makes sense, if it actually has merit.
00:28:00
Speaker
And kind of similarly to what we said about, you know, the fact that marriages didn't fall apart during like, let's say the middle of the last century doesn't mean that that was good.
00:28:10
Speaker
It was just how things were.
00:28:12
Speaker
And indeed popularity.
00:28:13
Speaker
We also touched upon that in our episode about like, you know, how to be a bad bitch kind of.
00:28:16
Speaker
It had a different name, but yeah.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:19
Speaker
how to be your own person.
00:28:21
Speaker
And as I said, it's very hard for us to think about things that are outside of what we know, but we must, because what we know is very, very limited.
00:28:31
Speaker
Like I'm only recently starting to understand that, that like what I know is very limited.
00:28:36
Speaker
There is so much that I don't know and don't even think about because my mind is limited to what it knows and information that it has.
00:28:42
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:44
Speaker
So always remember that as well.
00:28:46
Speaker
And I think we spoke about this before in that the average person, Patricia, is not very happy with their life.
00:28:50
Speaker
They don't know what they're doing either.
00:28:52
Speaker
And again, I'm not saying I'm above being indoctrinated.
00:28:55
Speaker
Obviously, some of the choices that I've made are in part because of, you know, why societal messaging?
00:28:59
Speaker
I'm not above it.
00:29:01
Speaker
But it's also good to recognize that you are also subject to, because you know, those people who just always think that they're so enlightened because they think that they're above indoctrination when actually almost like the crypto bros, right?
00:29:12
Speaker
They think that, oh, you know, I'm above indoctrination because I think, you know, trad finance is a scam when actually, you know, the crypto market has indoctrinated you in a different way.
00:29:22
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:29:23
Speaker
Like everybody is exposed to influence and indoctrination, right?
00:29:26
Speaker
It's just being able to recognize
FDS and Feminist Narratives
00:29:28
Speaker
that
00:29:28
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:29:29
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:29:30
Speaker
I mean, it's a complex thing.
00:29:31
Speaker
I don't think we can escape our socialization.
00:29:34
Speaker
Maybe we can build up on it and observe it.
00:29:36
Speaker
But to think that you're above and beyond it means that you're in like the Luland, like for real Luland, like you're being psychotic.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:29:44
Speaker
And it's also recognized that, you know, when you think about something that's popular, say, i.e.
00:29:48
Speaker
men watching porn, you recognize, okay, this is a popular view, but what does it actually involve?
00:29:53
Speaker
Like, is it the right view?
00:29:55
Speaker
So you then go and do your own research and come to your own conclusion.
00:29:58
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:29:59
Speaker
I think indeed the gist of this thing is the overarching theme of this whole episode series or double episode series that we need to look at arguments for what they are, try to perceive them with clean eyes,
00:30:13
Speaker
And in the context of popularity, a lot of the times the things that are most popular, especially when we're talking about mainstream media, is the lowest common denominator.
00:30:23
Speaker
If you look at the shows that are most watched on Netflix, it's not the most quality shows.
00:30:27
Speaker
On the contrary, things that are like super high quality, super cutting edge, they don't get continued to the second season because not enough people watch them on the first week or something.
00:30:36
Speaker
You know, it's very bad if you're going for what's popular.
00:30:39
Speaker
You should choose your own thing.
00:30:41
Speaker
Exactly.
00:30:42
Speaker
And this is probably why FDS was, it caused such a drop in the ocean in terms of dating advice is because we weren't interested in what the popular view was.
00:30:51
Speaker
And actually, if you interrogate what the popular view is, you will often uncover something that is, I wouldn't say a scam, but what you'll often find is that there's a reason why that is being pushed as a dominant narrative.
00:31:03
Speaker
And it's not in the best interest of humanity as a whole.
00:31:07
Speaker
It's in the best interest of a select group of people.
00:31:09
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:31:11
Speaker
And especially if we're talking about feminism, this is a great example of it because, as we know, libfem media is controlled by corporations, it's controlled by men.
00:31:21
Speaker
They're spewing a certain narrative that suits them.
00:31:24
Speaker
And that's what I really like about FDS.
00:31:26
Speaker
It's that it's not a rigid dogma.
00:31:28
Speaker
It's more a value-based system where our aim is to benefit women.
00:31:32
Speaker
And the concepts around it can change because what is important is to put yourself in the center and to trust yourself and to look at reality as it is.
00:31:40
Speaker
It's not about, you know, following a set of rules.
00:31:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:31:44
Speaker
You know, when I was on the Audacity podcast, I also said this as well.
00:31:47
Speaker
This is why we also get flamed by radical feminists, by separatist feminists.
00:31:51
Speaker
It's not that we're anti-feminist.
00:31:53
Speaker
It's more that we are female first.
00:31:56
Speaker
And every branch of, you know, feminism, in our view, they have some elements that are not necessarily in women's best interests.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, I can't even say the word.
00:32:05
Speaker
Like, I would never call myself a feminist.
00:32:08
Speaker
I would say that I favor women.
00:32:10
Speaker
A female supremacist, female for... No, I would use, like, more descriptive language because I feel like the word feminism has been tainted for, like, the last two decades.
00:32:19
Speaker
I mean, I can get on board with that.
00:32:21
Speaker
And, you know, for me, I borrow aspects from all types of feminism.
00:32:24
Speaker
I mean, even liberal feminism gets completely dragged, but I can recognise that for many people, like liberal feminism is perhaps a gateway to things like radical feminism, FDS, because...
00:32:35
Speaker
I think a lot of people, at least myself, you know, we first came across like liberal feminism.
00:32:40
Speaker
And to me, it didn't really make a lot of sense.
00:32:43
Speaker
But that was my first exposure to feminism.
00:32:45
Speaker
And then that gave me almost like the platform and the ability to critique it and then find other branches of feminism that better resonated with my worldview, such as radical feminism, gender critical feminism, even separatist feminism.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, starting to understand certain vocabularies.
00:33:04
Speaker
And indeed, LibFem does have its merits.
00:33:06
Speaker
Like I think the whole notion of women having it all.
00:33:09
Speaker
I don't know if it's correct, but I do hold this notion and this desire of having both a career and a family and a personal life.
00:33:16
Speaker
Maybe I'm in total Delulu land, but I still hold that desire.
00:33:20
Speaker
And I think that's like a liberal feminist concept.
00:33:23
Speaker
I don't know.
00:33:23
Speaker
What do you think?
00:33:24
Speaker
I think liberal feminism did a good job at getting rights enshrined for women in law, but perhaps that didn't translate to actually changing the dynamics between men and women, which is what I think that radical feminism, separatist feminism, perhaps more radical forms of feminism are better actually addressing.
00:33:42
Speaker
Because you can legislate stuff in law, but that doesn't necessarily change behavior over time, right?
00:33:48
Speaker
It's just like everyone knows that murders are legal in every jurisdiction, but murders still happen because it doesn't change behavior.
00:33:55
Speaker
I think what only changes behavior is, you know, women at the personal level, you know, making changes in how they interact and respond to men.
00:34:03
Speaker
And if we all did that en masse, that will have a greater impact than just putting it into law on its own.
00:34:08
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think in broad strokes, like the problem with liberal feminism is that it goes out of the assumption that the genders are equal.
00:34:15
Speaker
And I don't think they are equal.
00:34:18
Speaker
They're not.
00:34:18
Speaker
I think we are equal, but we are different.
00:34:22
Speaker
They're not the same.
00:34:23
Speaker
It's kind of like women can do anything that a man does because we're the same.
00:34:26
Speaker
We're not the same.
00:34:27
Speaker
We're different.
00:34:29
Speaker
I'd agree with that assertion
Challenging Stereotypes and Burden of Proof
00:34:30
Speaker
100%.
00:34:30
Speaker
Right, we are in the home stretch.
00:34:33
Speaker
So the next one, we've sort of touched upon it a bit in the ad hominem, but it's a genetic fallacy.
00:34:40
Speaker
So you reject an argument based on where it's come from, then it's merit.
00:34:43
Speaker
This is probably the laziest like form of logical fallacy because I have said good information can come from anywhere and rejecting it, you know, based off where it's come from is just lazy, quite frankly.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really know what else to say about that one.
00:34:59
Speaker
And I think an example of this one would be, like, women only think a certain way because of feminism.
00:35:04
Speaker
I'm like, okay, and what's I got to do with the actual argument or substance of what's being said?
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it's like a way to discredit an argument that you're making because the listener is correlating it with a dogma that he doesn't appreciate.
00:35:18
Speaker
So then it kind of puts you in the corner.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, within my political views, it's kind of common to like say, oh, leftist.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, or it's common to reject it based on who said it.
00:35:27
Speaker
So it's not an ad hominem because, you know, let's say like Donald Trump said, I believe all women should be equal to men.
00:35:33
Speaker
If he said that, an ad hominem would be like, oh, he's a rapist.
00:35:37
Speaker
Well, actually, no, that's not an ad hominem, but that's true.
00:35:39
Speaker
But if they said like... Well, Donald Trump said it.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, orange man said it.
00:35:45
Speaker
But the genetic fallacy would be, oh, well, Donald Trump said it.
00:35:50
Speaker
So it's not untrue that he said it, but it doesn't actually deal with what he said, if that makes sense.
00:35:56
Speaker
So ad hominem is more offensive.
00:35:58
Speaker
Genetic is actually just attacking the origin.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
00:36:02
Speaker
I guess it ties back into, you know, I may be repeating myself, but basically trying to see pieces of information as themselves and arguments for what they are trying to, you know, describe and not based on if you correlate them with a certain person, group or, yeah, worldview, address the actual argument.
00:36:21
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:36:23
Speaker
Could you give another example just to make it a little bit more colorful?
00:36:26
Speaker
oh, they subscribe to FDS.
00:36:27
Speaker
It happens all the time on Reddit.
00:36:28
Speaker
Do you know when people, like, I suppose that's more ad hominem, but when people dismiss what we say, because I see all the time people are like, oh, you're an FDS woman.
00:36:36
Speaker
I'm like, well, so.
00:36:38
Speaker
Guilty as charged.
00:36:41
Speaker
So that kind of means like, oh, your opinions are painted by this dogma that is, let's say, very offensive, very hurtful, very whatever.
00:36:51
Speaker
So that means your arguments don't have merit.
00:36:53
Speaker
Because of the other beliefs that you probably hold by your affiliation.
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:59
Speaker
But that doesn't make the argument untrue.
00:37:02
Speaker
So... So...
00:37:07
Speaker
And then finally, the burden of proof fallacy.
00:37:10
Speaker
So I would say this is a common one and you see it all the time on social media.
00:37:15
Speaker
It's essentially, I think there's two axes to this.
00:37:18
Speaker
So burden of proof, it lies with the person, you know, making the extraordinary claim.
00:37:24
Speaker
It's not down to the other person to prove your argument.
00:37:27
Speaker
So for example, to explain it in a way that I hope is clear, the burden of proof is essentially...
00:37:34
Speaker
who was responsible for proving the claim in any argument.
00:37:38
Speaker
In a legal context, the person making the claim, i.e.
00:37:41
Speaker
the claim or the claimant or the plaintiff.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, the person who's suing you for something, they need to show that you did this something.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, they're essentially the one who is responsible for proving their own argument.
00:37:53
Speaker
But what people will try to do in an argument is try to shift the burden of proof.
00:37:57
Speaker
So if a man says, oh, women only date, you know, men who are super, super tall, you know, let's say above six feet.
00:38:06
Speaker
And then, you know, I counter and say, well, that's not true.
00:38:09
Speaker
Then they would then try and, you know, shifting the burden of proof would essentially be that guy then trying to make me prove...
00:38:18
Speaker
their own argument when that's not my responsibility.
00:38:21
Speaker
If you make the claim, you provide the evidence for it.
00:38:24
Speaker
Like in this example, he would tell you, like, give me one name of a woman celebrity that's dating somebody who's shorter than him.
00:38:30
Speaker
And then he would say Zendaya, and then the argument will be stopped.
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah, or they'd say something like, well, Google it.
00:38:36
Speaker
Or in this site, well, it's not my job to prove your argument.
00:38:39
Speaker
It's up to you because you're the one making that claim.
00:38:41
Speaker
I'm not the one making it.
00:38:43
Speaker
Yeah, okay.
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah, I feel you.
00:38:44
Speaker
That's very annoying when people are like, yeah, read up about it.
00:38:47
Speaker
Why would I?
00:38:50
Speaker
If you want me to read up about it, send me a link.
00:38:53
Speaker
I will.
00:38:54
Speaker
And I say all the time, it's not my job to prove your argument.
00:38:57
Speaker
That's your job.
00:38:58
Speaker
Because I'm not the one making the argument.
00:39:00
Speaker
Nice.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's easy.
00:39:02
Speaker
I like that.
00:39:02
Speaker
And so in the context of low standards, then, you know, so as an example, if a man says, for example, as you said, that, you know, giving the less attractive guy a chance would lead to a better outcome,
00:39:17
Speaker
You know, a way to counter that would be, okay, so where's your proof that giving the less attractive guy a chance is going to lead to a better outcome?
00:39:25
Speaker
I mean, for me in dating.
00:39:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:28
Speaker
So you're putting the burden of proof on them in this segment?
00:39:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:31
Speaker
I mean, yeah, because the burden of proof, it should lie with the person making the claim.
00:39:36
Speaker
So if a guy claims that giving the less attractive guy a chance is going to lead to a better outcome, it is on them to prove it.
00:39:42
Speaker
So it's a completely fair question to say that where's your proof that's settling?
00:39:47
Speaker
It leads to better outcomes.
00:39:48
Speaker
And they often won't answer the question because they have no evidence.
00:39:51
Speaker
This is why they will try and shift the burden of proof onto you.
00:39:55
Speaker
saying, show me that dating men that are, you know, of better quality leads to better results.
00:40:01
Speaker
That would be the shift.
00:40:02
Speaker
Exactly.
00:40:03
Speaker
And so it's almost like a sleight of hand and you have to really see it for what it is.
00:40:07
Speaker
But basically the way to counter this in any form of life and dating, if you didn't make the claim, it's not your responsibility to prove the claim or disprove it.
00:40:16
Speaker
It's not your responsibility because you are making a completely separate argument.
00:40:20
Speaker
Are you making a completely separate argument?
00:40:22
Speaker
I mean, does that mean that you need in this, you know, if you want to engage in that argument, that you need to strengthen your argument?
00:40:30
Speaker
It can be a separate point or it can be a counterpoint.
00:40:33
Speaker
Because sometimes I think, especially online, when you don't have the value of a physical communication when talking to people, I'm not sure if you found it, but people are not actually arguing against your point, but they're actually agreeing with you, but they just don't realize it.
00:40:48
Speaker
It's happened to me so many times.
00:40:50
Speaker
I'm like, so you actually agree with my point then, but you're just trying to argue it because you're not understanding what I'm saying.
00:40:56
Speaker
What else are they going to do?
00:40:57
Speaker
They're sitting alone in their basement covered in Cheetos.
00:41:01
Speaker
Where did that Cheetos?
00:41:02
Speaker
I've never eaten Cheetos before.
00:41:03
Speaker
Where did that Cheetos stereotype come from?
00:41:05
Speaker
I think it's like a, well, I know it from a South Park, from a South Park series of episodes where there's like the quintessential hacker and he's just a guy sitting on his basement, reclining way back on a gaming chair and he's covered in Cheetos dust.
00:41:22
Speaker
That's funny.
00:41:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:23
Speaker
As I was like, good done.
00:41:25
Speaker
But yeah, so essentially, yeah, the burden of proof, it always lies with the person making the extraordinary claim.
00:41:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:32
Speaker
If somebody is encouraging you to lower your standards, like personally, when people do this fallacy, this is probably my hard limit in terms of I just don't engage because...
00:41:42
Speaker
If you can't even be bothered to research your own argument, then it's just not worth engaging in.
00:41:47
Speaker
Because I just think it's extremely intellectually lazy, probably one of the laziest fallacies on this list.
Enhancing Critical Thinking with Fallacies
00:41:53
Speaker
And again, especially in the context of, you know, men and even some women, it's always women who are expected to do more emotional and intellectual labor to justify their standards.
00:42:04
Speaker
So say no to that.
00:42:05
Speaker
The one making the extraordinary claim is expecting you to debunk him.
00:42:09
Speaker
But actually, it is up to him to verify what he's saying.
00:42:13
Speaker
Or they're expecting you to essentially prove their argument.
00:42:16
Speaker
It's not up to you to say, what?
00:42:18
Speaker
That's preposterous.
00:42:20
Speaker
How about that?
00:42:21
Speaker
You just don't need to do that.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:42:23
Speaker
And if anything, because they expect you to prove their argument.
00:42:26
Speaker
And it's like, why would I prove an argument that I don't agree with?
00:42:30
Speaker
I think mostly from examples that come into my mind, it usually makes me, if I'm confronted with an extraordinary argument, it makes me want to debunk it, right?
00:42:41
Speaker
Because I'm surprised, I'm shocked, and I know that it is untrue, so I'm trying to disprove it.
00:42:47
Speaker
But actually, I don't need to because I wasn't the one making it.
00:42:50
Speaker
It's up to the other person to validate it, not on me to disprove it.
00:42:54
Speaker
Does that make sense?
00:42:55
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:42:57
Speaker
So to wrap up, that is our final list of the logical fallacies.
00:43:02
Speaker
And I think that when you're aware of them, they are very, very easy to spot.
00:43:06
Speaker
And you realize that a lot of people who say a lot of words and who seem quite articulate, they fall foul of this all the time.
00:43:13
Speaker
And it's to me, I think it's fun to see them trip on their own shoelaces.
00:43:17
Speaker
That's really cool.
00:43:18
Speaker
That was a really cool double episode.
00:43:21
Speaker
I really enjoyed learning about that.
00:43:22
Speaker
And maybe we can upload the fallacies themselves, like the lists in the show notes.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:28
Speaker
I think there's even probably more that we haven't covered.
00:43:30
Speaker
So I will upload them in the show notes.
00:43:32
Speaker
So check them out.
00:43:33
Speaker
And your homework, so to speak.
00:43:36
Speaker
And so our parting gift to you is now you've got the tools to spot a logical fallacy.
00:43:41
Speaker
See if you can spot in your day-to-day life, at work, in your relationships.
00:43:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:46
Speaker
out in the wild when you're watching the news, especially politicians, they do a lot of them.
00:43:51
Speaker
Because ultimately, knowledge is power.
00:43:53
Speaker
And this is a powerful tool to avoid being manipulated and to avoid people trying to throw you red herrings so they don't actually have to engage with what you're saying.
00:44:02
Speaker
So yeah, see if you can spot them in your day-to-day life.
00:44:05
Speaker
Yeah, I really like this.
00:44:07
Speaker
I will try, Savannah.
00:44:08
Speaker
I shall try.
00:44:09
Speaker
Yeah, and let us know what you think.
00:44:10
Speaker
How many did you spot?
00:44:11
Speaker
And where did you spot them the most?
00:44:13
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:14
Speaker
And let us know.
00:44:15
Speaker
See you next week, queens.
00:44:17
Speaker
See you next week.