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Dating, Trolls, and Male Loneliness
61 Plays8 months ago
The Queens are joined by Lisa from the AudaciTea podcast, where they serve the tea on origin stories, being a Swiftie, online trolls, male loneliness and, of course, having sky high standards.
Follow Lisa on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the_yv_edit?lang=en
Check out the AudaciTea podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-audaci-tea/id1779370788
Download the FDS Handbook for free here: https://pdfcoffee.com/fds-handbook-v135-pdf-free.html
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Website: https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
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@femdatstrat
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:05
Speaker
I am your host, Diana.
00:00:07
Speaker
And I'm Rose.
00:00:08
Speaker
And today, Diana and I are fangirling in advance of our most esteemed guest.
00:00:14
Speaker
Diana, would you like to introduce her?
00:00:16
Speaker
Yes, we have Lisa of Audacity Podcast and YV Edits.
Influence of Female Dating Strategy (FDS) on Lisa
00:00:22
Speaker
Hi, y'all.
00:00:23
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yay!
00:00:27
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:00:28
Speaker
The feeling is so mutual.
00:00:31
Speaker
Talking in the pre-show about how you felt this was sort of a full circle moment.
00:00:35
Speaker
Tell the audience what you meant by that.
00:00:37
Speaker
So I literally wouldn't be here without FDS.
00:00:40
Speaker
Quite, quite, quite literally.
00:00:42
Speaker
Because I used to be a very frequent Reddit lurker.
00:00:46
Speaker
And I'll go more into like my backstory.
00:00:48
Speaker
But the FDS part of it is that Reddit used to be such a male-only dominated space.
00:00:56
Speaker
And it was endlessly fascinating to me as...
00:01:00
Speaker
a woman as an observer, like as a woman who's been very aware since like a very young age about how differently society treats women versus men and about just, I don't know if it's my neurodivergence or what, but it's always stuck out to me like a sore thumb.
00:01:16
Speaker
And so really like male centered spaces have always been of great interest to me because it's
00:01:23
Speaker
you know, one of the spaces where you see the patriarchy very clearly, so to speak.
00:01:29
Speaker
And it was just so interesting and so refreshing to see a space such as FDS come up on Reddit, where like even reading the relationship advice, you know, subreddits, the advice in there towards women was crazy.
00:01:45
Speaker
Like you could not make this stuff up.
00:01:48
Speaker
Like,
00:01:49
Speaker
You know, a woman would come in there complaining about communication issues with her boyfriend or just issues with her boyfriend and be like, you know, I've talked to him about this.
00:01:58
Speaker
I've let him know, whatever.
00:01:59
Speaker
And the comments would literally be like, have you tried talking to him?
00:02:03
Speaker
You women just don't communicate.
00:02:05
Speaker
Do you know, sometimes you have to teach people these things.
00:02:08
Speaker
And I was just so, so male centered.
Cultural Influences and Family Dynamics
00:02:12
Speaker
And then coming across FDS,
00:02:15
Speaker
And now this is where like a little bit more of my backstory comes in because I grew up in a very dualistic household where like, yes, my mom and grandma were religious and I have grown up like by all means in a church my whole life.
00:02:32
Speaker
But I was raised in Ukraine by Slavic women.
00:02:36
Speaker
And so FDS has always been the life.
00:02:40
Speaker
Like Slavic women align with FDS more than, you know, more than I feel like a lot of other women because there is this very clear value element.
00:02:53
Speaker
a breakdown.
00:02:54
Speaker
Like, we just see it for what it is, right?
00:02:56
Speaker
There's not a whole lot of romanticizing of men in Slavic culture.
00:03:01
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:03:01
Speaker
There's sects of it, for sure.
00:03:03
Speaker
But like, as a general, it's like, men are not really shit.
00:03:07
Speaker
Like, they're, for the most part, they're drunks and useless and they
00:03:12
Speaker
put their hands on women, etc.
00:03:14
Speaker
So if you're going to be with a man, make sure that it's worth it, right?
00:03:18
Speaker
Being raised by a single mom and a widowed grandma.
00:03:22
Speaker
And at the same time, there's religion and all of that is involved.
00:03:27
Speaker
And then my mom meets my dad and they get married.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I don't know if y'all have heard me talk about my dad, but my dad is an amazing person, just an angel of a human being.
00:03:38
Speaker
And he basically raised me since I was, you know, eight years old.
00:03:42
Speaker
And so he also set like this very set in stone, immovable example of what like a quote unquote good man should be, except for I always thought that was just average.
00:03:54
Speaker
And then we moved to America.
Lisa's Transition to U.S. and Observations
00:03:57
Speaker
And like the difference in the female like sphere was very palpable.
00:04:03
Speaker
Like American women are just different.
00:04:06
Speaker
How old were you when you moved to the U.S.?
00:04:08
Speaker
And where did you move to?
00:04:10
Speaker
I was 11 years old and I moved to Washington State.
00:04:13
Speaker
And at first it was like a more conservative area of the state.
00:04:17
Speaker
And my mom was like, absolutely not.
00:04:20
Speaker
We're not doing this.
00:04:21
Speaker
And we moved to like a more liberal part of the state.
00:04:24
Speaker
And that's where we've been since.
00:04:27
Speaker
And let me just tell you, even in that, like as much of a liberal area as this is, the difference is still just very palpable.
00:04:35
Speaker
Like women are just raised with a different kind of conditioning here in America and especially in the religious sphere.
00:04:43
Speaker
Which brings me to that's kind of the circles that we ran in.
00:04:48
Speaker
But me and my parents always had the understanding of like, there are certain parts of this shit that we don't agree with, right?
00:04:55
Speaker
Like, my dad has never acted like or said that women should be subservient to men, like in any way.
00:05:03
Speaker
He's never made me feel any less because I'm, you know, was a girl.
00:05:07
Speaker
he raised me with those kind of values.
00:05:10
Speaker
And so did my mom.
00:05:11
Speaker
You know, this is something that a lot of Christian people do in general.
00:05:14
Speaker
They just kind of pick and choose certain parts of the religion they agree or disagree with.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so we were no different.
00:05:21
Speaker
And that's kind of the setting in which I met my husband.
00:05:24
Speaker
And my dating journey was actually very short because most men are not worth dating because I had that example of my dad in my life where I was just like, I'd go and like try to hang out with
00:05:35
Speaker
a man and I would end up like literally calling my dad to pick me up and just be like, dad, he just wants to watch TV in his room.
00:05:42
Speaker
Like I gotta go.
00:05:44
Speaker
Like I'm just, I'm trying to leave.
00:05:46
Speaker
I don't want to do this.
00:05:48
Speaker
And yeah, it basically, that was my dating journey was just realizing that a lot of men are not really worth it.
00:05:55
Speaker
I had a long-term ish relationship where I learned the difference between like
00:06:00
Speaker
you can be treated well and okay.
00:06:02
Speaker
And all your friends can think that you're in a great relationship.
00:06:05
Speaker
But you can tell the man doesn't like you.
00:06:08
Speaker
And so he's still not worth like being with because he probably just wants to like, use you for your labor and everything like that.
Impact of FDS on Personal Relationships
00:06:16
Speaker
And so I was just really lucky enough to like realize these things early on.
00:06:21
Speaker
Even though I was churched, even though I got married really young, like my husband, I got married when we were
00:06:27
Speaker
20 years old.
00:06:29
Speaker
And my favorite part about him is that he was as much if not more of a fan of FDS as I was.
00:06:38
Speaker
What?
00:06:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:06:39
Speaker
So we would literally come home some days like after work and be like, Oh my god, did you see like this?
00:06:46
Speaker
You know, like, did you see it?
00:06:50
Speaker
This field report, you know?
00:06:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:06:52
Speaker
You know, I like how you mentioned that you sort of lurked.
00:06:54
Speaker
That was also me on subreddit.
00:06:56
Speaker
I didn't meet it until COVID times.
00:06:58
Speaker
And then I became like a true convert, you know, because I've always liked advice columns.
00:07:02
Speaker
I've always liked where I can hear what other people are dealing with in the real world.
00:07:06
Speaker
Right?
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:07
Speaker
Because it's one thing to read about it in a fictional novel.
00:07:10
Speaker
But
00:07:10
Speaker
But it's another one you're like, oh, this sounds like my aunt or this could well be my cousin or my best friend from high school.
00:07:15
Speaker
And so I really liked about Reddit was like, for the first time ever, you were getting this huge crowdsourcing of just like everyday people's lives.
00:07:22
Speaker
And I think that's when my eyes did start to open, not just because of FDS, although yes, in great part because of, but it was like the sheer aggregate data was such that certain things could no longer be denied.
00:07:35
Speaker
Rose, you see me like so clearly.
00:07:38
Speaker
That's exactly what like Reddit was for me was just like, I'm an only child, you know, I'm a people watcher.
00:07:46
Speaker
And I love just observing people like, and it was just that I was like addicted to those like relationship advice subreddits.
00:07:55
Speaker
Like I've always loved relationship columns.
00:07:57
Speaker
I'm a huge like magazine reader.
00:07:59
Speaker
huge reality TV watcher, all because it's like, I'm fascinated with other people and our social dynamics, because I realize how much they affect me and my fucking life.
Social Dynamics and Media Literacy
00:08:11
Speaker
Like, do you know what I mean?
00:08:12
Speaker
Like, I'm just like a nerd about it.
00:08:14
Speaker
It's because I very viscerally am aware of like, that's why I sort of like described my journey from like Ukraine to the US because I'm
00:08:25
Speaker
viscerally aware, you know what I mean, of how these dynamics can change and affect women.
00:08:32
Speaker
I just want to let the scrotes know that men who are of any value at all, like FDS.
00:08:39
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:40
Speaker
So any scrotes listening should know that because I'm so pleased to hear that your husband and you enjoyed the content together.
00:08:47
Speaker
I don't think we ever hear people say that, that like their husbands are super supportive of it.
00:08:51
Speaker
Like, I always just wonder if like,
00:08:54
Speaker
women were getting together behind their boyfriends and husbands backs to come see would be like how do I deal with said husband or said boyfriend but it's so heartwarming to hear that there are boyfriends and husbands out here who are like now we agree they're not saying who's where are they lying you know because that's the truth I don't think we're ever coming off with the position of trying to mislead women you know what I mean like this is supposed to help you so we're so glad to hear that
00:09:17
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:18
Speaker
No, seriously.
00:09:18
Speaker
And like, basically, where FDS came into it, like, it gave me permission, like, honestly, gave like both of us permission.
00:09:27
Speaker
But like, that was something we were, you know, my husband and I, we do this together a lot, you know, we break down like societal observations or like,
00:09:36
Speaker
We read a lot of nonfiction together and just try to figure out how it applies to things out here in the real world.
00:09:42
Speaker
And like Reddit was a huge part of that.
00:09:45
Speaker
And then we just like focused in on FDA.
00:09:47
Speaker
Like it was like our only subreddit, like literally, you know, you go on Reddit and like we would just separately.
00:09:54
Speaker
Right.
00:09:54
Speaker
Like we're not sitting there hunched over a phone together.
00:09:56
Speaker
But like that was like the only reason we would just go on Reddit after a while.
00:10:01
Speaker
And we were just so bummed when it started getting like brigaded and stuff.
00:10:05
Speaker
And it just the important thing about FDS and why it's like to me, it's an institution.
00:10:12
Speaker
It's like so much bigger than the individuals, you know, because it's permission giving.
00:10:18
Speaker
It's literally life giving to women that are.
00:10:22
Speaker
see this stuff and can feel it and like sense it, but like can't put the words behind it.
00:10:29
Speaker
And at some point I was one of those women because everything in my life was so implicit.
00:10:35
Speaker
You know, the suggestion that men aren't everything we think they are or whatever, like that was always implicit in my life.
00:10:43
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:10:43
Speaker
My mom never came out and told me like, oh,
00:10:46
Speaker
men aren't you know shit or whatever like she may have said something like that a few times but like she just wouldn't leave me like alone with men you know what I mean she just wouldn't there was always subtle signs of she never invited men into our house because it was like me my mom and my grandma so if somebody was gonna come over they were gonna be a woman yeah
00:11:06
Speaker
This is what Reddit and social media and FDS did for me.
00:11:09
Speaker
It made explicit the implicit because I am somebody who's read voraciously my whole life.
00:11:15
Speaker
I've always been somebody out and about, like I'm not just a hermit in my home.
00:11:19
Speaker
But I always thought I couldn't understand why, although I behaved with in like an honorable way and with good intentions and was very straightforward and direct.
00:11:28
Speaker
Like people would pull shit on me.
00:11:29
Speaker
And I was like, I don't understand.
00:11:31
Speaker
Like, how are people behaving like this when I've done everything that I'm supposed to do?
00:11:34
Speaker
And I couldn't understand like the world of humans.
00:11:37
Speaker
And on a very fundamental level, I just couldn't understand what everybody else seemed to grasp about the implicit.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yes, the neurodivergent canon event.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think absolutely might be it for me too, because it's just like, I need you to tell me explicitly, like use your words, say what you mean and mean what you say.
00:11:56
Speaker
And then everything goes so much more smoothly.
00:11:58
Speaker
But that's not how the world works.
00:12:00
Speaker
All I'm saying.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker
Right.
00:12:02
Speaker
Reddit and FTS finally like really articulated for me all of these sorts of undertones, all of the like the subterranean flows of things that I just was not grasping.
00:12:13
Speaker
And it felt like such a relief because I was like, it's not like I'm stupid.
00:12:17
Speaker
It's just people are operating on a different channel.
00:12:20
Speaker
100%.
00:12:21
Speaker
It's one of those things where like, once you see it too, you really can't unsee it.
00:12:26
Speaker
And it makes me so happy when women have that same sentiment towards me, because I stand on the shoulders of, you know, other women, and I just know,
00:12:36
Speaker
How, you know, what it takes to like get there and what it's like once you do get there.
00:12:41
Speaker
It's fucking horrible.
00:12:43
Speaker
I don't know if we can like talk about that openly, but like, you know, y'all are like, you know, you're so brave for like putting your face out there.
00:12:51
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest with y'all.
00:12:53
Speaker
I started as a fashion girly on TikTok.
00:12:56
Speaker
The only reason I was willing to show my face is because I was really there to give fashion advice.
00:13:01
Speaker
It's one of my other passions.
00:13:03
Speaker
No wonder your makeup is always so good.
00:13:05
Speaker
I'm always like, what is your favorite?
00:13:08
Speaker
I have to say, that's another part of the reason I stick around.
00:13:10
Speaker
I mean, of course, I really enjoy what you actually talk about.
00:13:13
Speaker
But part of the reason I watch is because you're always doing your makeup and stuff.
00:13:17
Speaker
I mean, it's such an easy... That's the reason why I watch Fleeksy.
00:13:20
Speaker
I was like, you
Shift to Feminist Content Creation
00:13:21
Speaker
know what?
00:13:21
Speaker
I love watching people who do their makeup.
00:13:23
Speaker
It's just so therapeutic.
00:13:25
Speaker
It's fun.
00:13:26
Speaker
Thank you.
00:13:27
Speaker
It is.
00:13:28
Speaker
I'm like, where's the blush placement?
00:13:29
Speaker
I need to know where to put the blush.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yes, thank you.
00:13:33
Speaker
I know.
00:13:33
Speaker
And that's how I learned to do my makeup.
00:13:35
Speaker
I just watched a bunch of makeup videos in like 2020.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, I've been doing everything wrong my whole life.
00:13:41
Speaker
I'm like,
00:13:43
Speaker
At least we know well.
00:13:44
Speaker
But maybe that's also why you appeal to me so much.
00:13:47
Speaker
Because, you know, I was telling you in the pre show, like, I'll literally just sit there and listen to you as I do my dishes and all that.
00:13:53
Speaker
Because the way you break things down, it's you deconstruct things so explicitly and so methodically, like my analytic brain like is rejoicing, like we
00:14:05
Speaker
because it just makes everything so simple and understandable.
00:14:08
Speaker
And I'm like, it's not like I didn't understand it before.
00:14:10
Speaker
But what I didn't understand was like, I didn't understand it on the level that was conscious.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yes, that's the real shift, right?
00:14:18
Speaker
It really is.
00:14:19
Speaker
And women are fed so much subconsciously that stops you from like sort of asking these questions or like,
00:14:28
Speaker
really meaningfully looking for answers because of that continuous, implicit, like what we now I can now never unsee again as the weight of the patriarchy, like literally just always kind of bearing down on you.
00:14:44
Speaker
Like I even remember looking at advertisements as a kid and being like, dang, like so women are just supposed to be like smooth and beautiful.
00:14:54
Speaker
And flawless and fun and cool.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
And like when you throw a little silk scarf down your leg, like God forbid it get caught on like some nasty ass leg hair.
00:15:07
Speaker
Like, you better not have any of that, you know?
00:15:11
Speaker
Like, God forbid you take your hair out of a bun and it doesn't, you know, cascade beautifully and falls.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I was just like, where's all this for men?
00:15:20
Speaker
Like, why aren't men supposed to be baddies?
00:15:22
Speaker
Like, why aren't men supposed to have a perfectly shaped ass, you know?
00:15:26
Speaker
And then to add like insult on top of injury, I'm like straight.
00:15:30
Speaker
I'm literally straight.
00:15:31
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:15:32
Speaker
It's just that that is what it is.
00:15:34
Speaker
I'm closer to asexual than I am to...
00:15:37
Speaker
you know, the other side of the sexuality continuum.
00:15:41
Speaker
And I've always wondered, like, what are men bringing to the table for me?
00:15:45
Speaker
Like, do you know what I mean?
00:15:46
Speaker
Like, I'm supposed to be smooth and beautiful and like, no cellulite, nothing.
00:15:51
Speaker
But I'm supposed to marry and have
00:15:54
Speaker
relations with a nasty, hairy man that I have to tell him to like brush his teeth.
00:16:01
Speaker
Ew.
00:16:03
Speaker
I love that you called it relations.
00:16:05
Speaker
But like, seriously, right?
00:16:07
Speaker
I like how you call it the weight of the crushing weight of patriarchy.
00:16:10
Speaker
Because like you say, once you start to see it, you can't unsee it.
00:16:13
Speaker
And what it really is, and this is why it's so scurrilous, it's a societal brainwashing.
00:16:19
Speaker
It's propaganda on so many levels.
00:16:21
Speaker
What are we supposed to see beyond the veil?
00:16:24
Speaker
Right?
00:16:24
Speaker
I do want to ask, you know, as you said, you started out as a fashion girly.
00:16:28
Speaker
Like what made you pivot into the kind of content that you're like, what made you feel like there was a need or a gap that you needed to like address, you know, because I've only ever seen you on TikTok from the perspective of talking about feminist issues.
00:16:40
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:16:40
Speaker
Like, I think a lot of people who have seen your content, like in the later stages probably didn't even realize that there was a switch, you know?
00:16:48
Speaker
I just wanted to know, like, what made you think, okay, you know, I love this fashion stuff, but like, I also want to do this.
00:16:53
Speaker
Like, what inspired that if there was an inspiration?
00:16:56
Speaker
Was it organic?
00:16:57
Speaker
Or how did that happen?
00:16:58
Speaker
It was organic.
00:16:59
Speaker
Y'all are gonna laugh.
00:17:00
Speaker
It was when Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift started dating.
00:17:04
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:17:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:08
Speaker
So now I have to clarify, if any men are listening, I'm a huge Swifty.
00:17:14
Speaker
I love her.
00:17:14
Speaker
Taylor's the best.
00:17:15
Speaker
Like she's the queen.
00:17:17
Speaker
For the women listening, I'm not a Swifty.
00:17:20
Speaker
I don't follow her.
00:17:22
Speaker
I totally know what you mean.
00:17:23
Speaker
I totally know what you mean.
00:17:25
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:17:25
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
You just did this video where you were like, women are vicious and I'm here for it.
00:17:30
Speaker
And it's like this video of a guy who's like, I just went on dates with women who were like, I don't know how to cook.
00:17:35
Speaker
What's wrong with you women?
00:17:36
Speaker
It's like, they are lying to you, sir.
00:17:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:39
Speaker
They are lying.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:41
Speaker
She has other business prospects.
00:17:43
Speaker
She's a girl on the go.
00:17:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:45
Speaker
She just had to let her be a diva.
00:17:47
Speaker
That's it.
00:17:48
Speaker
Got it.
00:17:49
Speaker
I know that's what I'm saying.
00:17:50
Speaker
Like, God forbid, God forbid she use her hard earned capitalism bucks to buy herself a capitalism convenience.
00:17:59
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean?
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:02
Speaker
I mean, we were doing talked about this in earlier episodes about how so much of the marketing of the 50s and 60s was to convince women to like buy products because it reduced their time in the kitchen.
00:18:11
Speaker
And now it's like, oh, no, spend copious amounts of time doing the exact same tasks and work full time.
00:18:18
Speaker
Like that's the growth of like TikTokers like Nara Smith and stuff.
00:18:20
Speaker
It's like, oh, yes, we had to start making Cheerios from scratch.
00:18:23
Speaker
But why?
00:18:25
Speaker
But why?
00:18:27
Speaker
Like, why am I making Oreos from scratch?
00:18:29
Speaker
Like, but why?
00:18:31
Speaker
What is the point of the future?
00:18:33
Speaker
If the goal is to go back to the past, like I don't understand.
00:18:37
Speaker
Let's just get AI Smith.
00:18:38
Speaker
Like, let's just get some AI person to come and do the cooking so that Nara can enjoy being an early 20 something.
00:18:44
Speaker
Like, I forget that that woman is
00:18:45
Speaker
20s and not like a full-fledged 30-something woman, you know?
00:18:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, that was really hard for me to believe, for sure.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, just like the marketing of this person is like, oh yeah, the younger you are, the more trad wife you have to be.
00:18:59
Speaker
But I want to go back to Taylor and Travis Kelsey for a minute because I think that's a really interesting and fun topic.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'll get to the point.
00:19:07
Speaker
So my husband and I are actually huge NFL fans.
00:19:10
Speaker
I mean, probably not anymore.
00:19:12
Speaker
It's just been too much going on with it.
00:19:14
Speaker
But anyways, that year we were watching that Chiefs game and all of a sudden it like the cameras panned to
00:19:21
Speaker
Taylor Swift at the stadium.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh, that's funny.
00:19:24
Speaker
What's Taylor Swift doing there.
00:19:26
Speaker
And then they happened to show Travis's like outfit that he walked in with.
00:19:33
Speaker
And it was like, reminiscent of the 1989 album cover, which at the time she was like,
00:19:40
Speaker
re-releasing her like Taylor's version of it.
00:19:42
Speaker
And I knew this because I was like a social media manager and I, that stuff was all over the place.
00:19:48
Speaker
So I was like, oh, that's interesting.
00:19:50
Speaker
Like, are they like besties?
00:19:52
Speaker
Like, why is he wearing like a 1989 inspired outfit?
00:19:56
Speaker
This is so cute.
00:19:57
Speaker
They're like best friends.
00:19:58
Speaker
And then no, they like hold hands.
00:20:01
Speaker
They drive off in the car together.
00:20:03
Speaker
And all of this was aired by like basically the NFL.
00:20:06
Speaker
Like, I don't know.
00:20:08
Speaker
Like that was the reason I looked it up.
00:20:10
Speaker
And in the days that ensued, like more paparazzi photos of them came out.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I was like, oh, this is cute, right?
00:20:17
Speaker
Like they're out there, they're holding hands, like she's finally, you know, with a man that's like, not making her run to the car and like afraid of paparazzi or whatever.
00:20:26
Speaker
Like, I was like, this is great.
00:20:28
Speaker
And then I started seeing like this stuff that women were saying about that.
00:20:32
Speaker
And I realized that my sisters were in the motherfucking trenches.
00:20:37
Speaker
Like they were like, look at the way that he's holding her hand.
00:20:40
Speaker
And he was just holding her hand.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:43
Speaker
And they were like, this is my Roman empire.
00:20:45
Speaker
Like this is all I can think about the way he's holding one of her hand with like both of his hands.
00:20:50
Speaker
You know, in my mind, I was like, okay, like there's no reason for me to just stick to one thing on TikTok.
00:20:58
Speaker
I was like, you know, like sometimes people do fashion content and have hot takes.
00:21:02
Speaker
Like I was like, if I had a hot take, like this would be it.
00:21:06
Speaker
Like the girls are in the trenches.
00:21:08
Speaker
Like you guys literally think that somebody going out with an insanely beautiful and famous and successful girl
00:21:17
Speaker
woman who is literally Travis Kelsey is as a person, but also like his like one of his like yearly contracts is like as much as Taylor Swift's cat is insured for or like makes in a year or something like that.
00:21:34
Speaker
Like one of her cats brings in an income.
00:21:37
Speaker
That is like a substantial worth of like Travis Kelsey, the person.
00:21:42
Speaker
So like, and people were acting like she's lucky, like she's lucky that he's holding her hand.
00:21:48
Speaker
I'm like, he should be kissing the ground that she walks on.
00:21:52
Speaker
I mean, also, he should be so lucky because his career got a boost just from being with her.
00:21:56
Speaker
Like she could not have been better for the NFL.
00:21:58
Speaker
That's what I'm saying.
00:22:00
Speaker
His podcast, I'm just saying like, it's fucking crazy.
00:22:04
Speaker
So I went on there and I said, Hey, I'm probably gonna delete this.
00:22:07
Speaker
But like, are you guys okay?
00:22:10
Speaker
Like, this is not I'm like, this is how my husband of 13 years acts of like, when we go out.
00:22:17
Speaker
This is not something crazy that you're asking for.
00:22:21
Speaker
This is not out of line.
00:22:22
Speaker
This should be nobody.
00:22:23
Speaker
My Roman empire is this being y'all's Roman empire.
00:22:27
Speaker
Are men not treating y'all like this?
00:22:29
Speaker
Are men not doing the bare minimum?
00:22:32
Speaker
And I realized for some reason I had like,
00:22:35
Speaker
You know, it had been a few years since like FDS was like a active subreddit.
00:22:40
Speaker
I think I was like more chronically online than I thought because I thought that we had had the like revolution of like women are not accepting.
Celebrity Relationships and Societal Norms
00:22:48
Speaker
Like I thought the work of FDS was done.
00:22:51
Speaker
And when I tell y'all that that video blew up the way that none of my fashion videos, you know, really, and I just realized I was like, you know, maybe I just have something different to offer than I thought.
00:23:03
Speaker
Like maybe there's a conversation that's more necessary that I can contribute more to.
00:23:09
Speaker
And I tried like doing both.
00:23:11
Speaker
And one of these things is like insanely more important to me than the other.
00:23:16
Speaker
And so that's that's the journey.
00:23:19
Speaker
But you know what's crazy about the whole Travis Kelsey thing in general is that I think it mirrors a lot of what people say about Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco as well.
00:23:27
Speaker
Because if I think about it, like, Joel Alwyn, Taylor Swift's boyfriend before Travis Kelsey and, like, you know, actually before Matt Healy technically,
00:23:35
Speaker
I don't think I've ever seen a male, like a man in the media get as much flack as that guy for dating her in a time, like if people forget the lore, like she was like down in the trenches herself in 2016 after the whole Kim Kardashian thing.
00:23:48
Speaker
She dated him and I really feel like a big part of the reason she stayed with him so long was because of the pandemic.
00:23:52
Speaker
Because he was one of like her longest relationships.
00:23:54
Speaker
And I feel like in that time, my sense was that she didn't really want to be that famous anymore.
00:23:59
Speaker
Like she didn't want to be as publicly exposed.
00:24:02
Speaker
And then as she got more comfortable with that, like that obviously changed.
00:24:05
Speaker
But I don't think that Joe Alwyn, for example, has ever presented himself to be anything but that.
00:24:09
Speaker
Like he strikes me as a person, even now, who's like not really that into the fame aspect of his career in general.
00:24:16
Speaker
And like, I feel like, I don't know.
00:24:18
Speaker
I mean, I'm never biased towards men in general.
00:24:20
Speaker
Like I'm like, leave them defend for themselves.
00:24:22
Speaker
But I feel like that was the first time I ever saw media coverage of a man being like, oh, Travis is such an upgrade.
00:24:28
Speaker
And I have to push back against that because of anything we see now, like I remember just recently that he was at like a game and they asked him if he was excited the president is coming.
00:24:36
Speaker
And he was like, oh, yeah, I'm excited.
00:24:37
Speaker
Like, I don't get the sense from that man.
00:24:40
Speaker
I made a video about that.
00:24:41
Speaker
No, he's terrible.
00:24:43
Speaker
I don't get the sense that he's like this great progressive golden retriever.
00:24:46
Speaker
Absolutely not.
00:24:48
Speaker
I don't get that from Benny Blanco either for what it's worth.
00:24:50
Speaker
Like, I feel like this like shit about, oh my God, there's such golden retrievers.
00:24:53
Speaker
Isn't he so nice that he made her a tub full of nacho cheese?
00:24:57
Speaker
I'm like, you know what?
00:24:58
Speaker
No, actually, I don't give a fuck about any of that.
00:25:01
Speaker
Because these men benefit from that image and the proximity to those women.
00:25:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:25:06
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:25:06
Speaker
It's as good for them to be in that relationship.
00:25:09
Speaker
If anything, it just proves how low the bar is.
00:25:12
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:25:13
Speaker
Like, for Selena Gomez, like, I'm sorry, like, she is drop dead gorgeous, always has been.
00:25:20
Speaker
To be dating, you know, a man that looks like Benny Blanco.
00:25:25
Speaker
And it's like, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, she's dating someone so like not good looking, but people forget she dated the weekend.
00:25:32
Speaker
She kind of has a tie.
00:25:34
Speaker
And women don't care about looks.
00:25:35
Speaker
It just proves like all of this red pill incel ideology so wrong on its face.
00:25:42
Speaker
Also, people really like an easy and simple story, right?
00:25:45
Speaker
Like, I think that at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, okay, fine.
00:25:48
Speaker
He's not a good looking person, whatever.
00:25:49
Speaker
Like, that's not even the most important part.
00:25:51
Speaker
I think the thing is a lot of people juxtapose the fact that he treats her marginally better than Justin Bieber did from all of the media coverage.
00:25:58
Speaker
And so people automatically equate that to he's the best boyfriend on earth.
00:26:02
Speaker
And I think people need to go and touch grass and like just be more real.
00:26:05
Speaker
And just also they seem to forget that a lot of these men are in on the publicity.
00:26:10
Speaker
They're in on like these guys are promoting an album as a couple.
00:26:13
Speaker
It's very intentional what they're doing.
00:26:15
Speaker
I'm saying like, yes, like y'all really think that like, now all of a sudden, like Benny Blanco's like doing these interviews, like nobody cared about him before.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, like you're falling for the easiest marketing gimmick of the century.
00:26:29
Speaker
This is the other point that we make about men benefit a lot more from their proximity to women than women do men, especially famous women.
00:26:37
Speaker
You know, they know that there's a lot to be gained from dating America's sweetheart and America's sweetheart musician.
00:26:42
Speaker
And so they know exactly what's going to happen.
00:26:44
Speaker
Like, Maddie Healy had like a bunch of shitty things to say about Taylor Swift, but he still dated her because he knew what that would do to his profile.
00:26:51
Speaker
You know, like men don't even have to like you to do that.
00:26:53
Speaker
He was quoted as saying like, I would never just want to be known as like Taylor Swift's boyfriend.
00:26:59
Speaker
And then he literally went and like wanted to do that.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:07
Speaker
That's why we always say like, look at what people do and not what they say, because men especially have weaponized
00:27:12
Speaker
language and language and communication is the provenance
Language and Patriarchal Narratives
00:27:16
Speaker
of men.
00:27:16
Speaker
They have claimed that and we are trying to claw back meaning and language for ourselves that actually fits our reality and that describes the world we live in because we are in two very different worlds.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:27:29
Speaker
And men always want to jump in on these things like I've talked about this before, but like when women started saying, talking about things that give them the ick,
00:27:39
Speaker
you know, and then men jumped in on that conversation.
00:27:42
Speaker
I was like, no, you don't get to have ics.
00:27:46
Speaker
You don't even understand what the ics means.
00:27:48
Speaker
Like structurally, you as a man are not going to get the ics from a woman, like sociologically.
00:27:56
Speaker
Stop trying to always do everything we do, but they can't let us have anything that's just ours.
00:28:02
Speaker
No, for real.
00:28:03
Speaker
Because it's like the ics comes from like realizing that
00:28:07
Speaker
The patriarchy is not real.
00:28:10
Speaker
And like the way that it benefits your boyfriend is it just gives him an excuse to like be mediocre.
00:28:17
Speaker
And it's like you realizing that he's just a guy who has to plug his nose to jump into the pool.
00:28:22
Speaker
He's not like...
00:28:23
Speaker
some like Disney charming, like Prince charming, whatever.
00:28:27
Speaker
Like he's just a guy.
00:28:29
Speaker
He's just a guy that has to like tie his shoelaces and like bend over weird while he does it.
00:28:34
Speaker
And you get this ick because you're like, oh, it's not all it's cracked up to be.
00:28:38
Speaker
Like men don't have the equivalent of that.
00:28:41
Speaker
They don't.
00:28:42
Speaker
Can we talk a little bit about what was the response to your messages?
00:28:46
Speaker
Like after you switched up, like how did the men react?
00:28:49
Speaker
How did the women react?
00:28:50
Speaker
How did you deal with the rise in popularity?
00:28:53
Speaker
Oh, that's a really good question.
00:28:55
Speaker
I don't even know if I've begun to like process that or like really think of it in terms of that, but that is a good question.
00:29:02
Speaker
So my audience was mostly, you know, female to begin with because it was fashion advice.
00:29:08
Speaker
And it really expanded after I sort of started talking more about the like unseen effects of the patriarchy and kind of like dating advice.
00:29:18
Speaker
I think it started out as me trying to be like,
00:29:21
Speaker
Well, here are some things you can do to vet and like things like that.
00:29:24
Speaker
But I've moved very far away from that at this point.
00:29:28
Speaker
One of your most recent YouTube videos was you addressed Scott Galloway's appearance on Diary of a CEO.
00:29:37
Speaker
And you just like would take his comments and then you pause it and you'd be like, here's why this is wrong.
00:29:41
Speaker
And then you would like rewind it a little bit.
00:29:43
Speaker
So like people could then look, listen with what you had just said in their ear so they could hear how wrong it was.
00:29:50
Speaker
Right.
00:29:51
Speaker
And you, you went through this whole video like that.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I was just like, this is so masterful.
00:29:56
Speaker
Like this is such a masterclass in media literacy and critical engagement with what men are saying, because I think that's what women do.
00:30:04
Speaker
really lack is that sort of understanding that they're not saying these things in good faith.
00:30:09
Speaker
We think they are, they are not.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:13
Speaker
It's once again, that implication, you know, that women have to live with, like the implication is men are somehow different than you.
00:30:22
Speaker
And so it's okay that you're treated differently, but then there's no good reason.
00:30:28
Speaker
You know, like the reason is because boys will be boys and
00:30:32
Speaker
And it's like, okay, well, then what are girls supposed to be?
00:30:34
Speaker
What passes do girls get?
00:30:36
Speaker
Oh, none, none.
00:30:37
Speaker
Like we can't even dress how we want.
00:30:39
Speaker
We can't even do our makeup how we want.
00:30:42
Speaker
We can't even do our hair how we want.
00:30:44
Speaker
But we have to do those things.
00:30:46
Speaker
We do still have to try to dress cute.
00:30:48
Speaker
We still have to try to do our makeup.
00:30:50
Speaker
We still have to try to do our hair.
00:30:52
Speaker
You know, like we get no pass.
00:30:54
Speaker
It's like impossible for us.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I'm just really fucking sick of it.
00:30:59
Speaker
And I just can't unsee it.
00:31:00
Speaker
I just compare it.
00:31:01
Speaker
Like, I just can't help it.
00:31:02
Speaker
Because like at the end of the day, nobody has been able to give me a good reason as to why men should just be allowed to get away with things.
00:31:10
Speaker
There is no good reason.
00:31:12
Speaker
There's no good reason why women are held to such different and such higher standards.
00:31:16
Speaker
So the only thing left to do is just to flip it on its head.
00:31:19
Speaker
Like, okay, like why doesn't this apply to women?
Challenges in Upholding Strong Values
00:31:23
Speaker
Oh, the men are lonely.
00:31:25
Speaker
What are the women?
00:31:26
Speaker
Like women are not dating.
00:31:29
Speaker
It's totally disregarded what toll it takes on people's
00:31:31
Speaker
women to be lonely because I think people have this assumption that men are the only lonely ones.
00:31:34
Speaker
And it's like, no, women are lonely too.
00:31:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:36
Speaker
It's just that men, if they actually choose to put some effort into it, would wind up with a person who's half decent.
00:31:42
Speaker
Women don't have a guarantee of that outcome.
00:31:44
Speaker
You could be the most cherished and most amazing woman, the most ambitious, the most beautiful, the kindest, the most generous, and you could still wind up with zero options.
00:31:52
Speaker
And I think a lot of men don't recognize that.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's like, we talk about crisis of masculinity.
00:31:56
Speaker
There's a crisis of options because men haven't had to really change
00:32:00
Speaker
drastically in order to get what they want.
00:32:01
Speaker
I think this is the first time men have realized they've had to put more effort in than just their money.
00:32:05
Speaker
And I think a lot of them are crashing out because of that.
00:32:08
Speaker
And masculinity is not valuable.
00:32:10
Speaker
Can we talk about that?
00:32:12
Speaker
Masculinity by itself is not fucking valuable.
00:32:15
Speaker
It actually is like detrimental to our society and like toxic by default.
00:32:22
Speaker
We just had this conversation yesterday with Gail Dines.
00:32:25
Speaker
She does a lot of work with them.
00:32:27
Speaker
I love Gail.
00:32:29
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:32:30
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:32:31
Speaker
Dr. Gail Dines is going to be back on the podcast a third time.
00:32:34
Speaker
You're going to see it.
00:32:35
Speaker
You heard it from us first right now.
00:32:37
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:32:38
Speaker
I literally just levitated like my soul just of my body.
00:32:42
Speaker
I love her so much.
00:32:42
Speaker
One of the things she brought up is that she thinks toxic masculinity is a redundant term.
00:32:46
Speaker
She was like masculinity by its very nature is toxic.
00:32:49
Speaker
So there's no point in saying toxic masculinity because it's just redundant.
00:32:52
Speaker
The other thing she was saying was, and she was like, I hate to use this terminology, but like when we talk about the loneliness of men, well, women are the ones who are also being left out of the positive loving relationships or the relationships they're in are subpar or abusive or they're dealing with, you know, that that that she's like, what people are looking at is how women are the collateral damage to all these damaged men, because we can't live apart from them.
00:33:13
Speaker
We have to live in a world that they're in as well.
00:33:16
Speaker
Exactly.
00:33:17
Speaker
I feel like I'm in like this constant loop with women sometimes where I'm like, you're clearly making decisions and choices that are affecting your mental health and are leading you in a pattern of settling for extremely low value relationships that don't add anything to your life.
00:33:31
Speaker
Right.
00:33:31
Speaker
And the solution to that always seems to be how can I continue to give away my agency and continue to shrink myself, continue to compromise my way into a relationship that will actually serve me.
00:33:41
Speaker
And it's like, that's not the solution.
00:33:43
Speaker
But you don't want to hear that almost, right?
00:33:45
Speaker
So I want to ask you, you know, what has been the consequence of you living your values?
00:33:49
Speaker
And how do you think like the people around you have responded to, because you seem to be a person who has a really strong sense of self-worth and strong boundaries.
00:33:57
Speaker
And like, obviously, I don't think all of your advice is taken with the intention that it's needed, you know, that people need to, because some people will hear what you have to say and just be like, no, that doesn't work.
00:34:05
Speaker
That's not realistic.
00:34:06
Speaker
And I think that's what we get a lot as well.
00:34:08
Speaker
It's like, oh, what you're suggesting is not realistic.
00:34:09
Speaker
Like, even, you know, when we were talking to Dr. Gil Dines yesterday, we were talking about how like,
00:34:13
Speaker
okay, just by betting that I don't want to date a man who's watched porn or who actively watches porn, I've cut out like 98% of men I can potentially date.
00:34:23
Speaker
And most women will be like, well, that's unreasonable because then that limits my pool.
00:34:26
Speaker
And then there's just like 27 men left.
00:34:27
Speaker
I'm not even kidding you.
00:34:28
Speaker
Just today, my best friend and I, we went on chat to PT and I put in all of my criteria for men.
00:34:33
Speaker
And I look, I'm moving to a new city soon.
00:34:35
Speaker
And I was like,
00:34:36
Speaker
okay i'm looking for all of these qualities in this city with you know and i want you to tell me how many men are left i kid you not there were 27 men stop and that city has 9 million men okay there are 27 men oh my god estimated what's that criteria you know what was the great great like the thing that cut the weeds the most was poor absolutely
00:35:00
Speaker
Just that alone cut a lot of them out.
00:35:02
Speaker
And just think about how many women are in these relationships.
00:35:04
Speaker
They're like, well, I have to settle because, you know, one man doesn't watch porn and like, but healthy sexuality, blah, blah, blah, you know, all of these lies that we've been fed, the propaganda of porn.
00:35:14
Speaker
And it's like women are being harmed through these sexual acts.
00:35:17
Speaker
Women are having the joy and the safety and the sanctity of intimacy torn from them.
00:35:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:35:23
Speaker
They are subjected to death and to practices that can permanently injure and impair them.
00:35:28
Speaker
And that's the price we're supposed to pay just like because he's one of the good ones.
00:35:32
Speaker
I mean, it's insanity.
00:35:34
Speaker
He's not one of the good ones, because if you're here's my thing, even without all the horrifying realities that porn has for women.
00:35:45
Speaker
Even if we were to somehow eliminate that, right, and we were to regulate the industry to like a fault, first of all, men would stop watching it.
00:35:56
Speaker
So that'd be great.
00:35:57
Speaker
They don't enjoy...
00:35:58
Speaker
when women are treated like respectfully.
00:36:01
Speaker
So like, just by default, he's not one of the good ones, because like the kind of porn that's out there is just not okay.
00:36:07
Speaker
Second of all, even without that, even taking that away, say like, what's a normal amount of porn to watch?
00:36:14
Speaker
Like, is it like an hour a day?
00:36:15
Speaker
Is it like an hour a week?
00:36:17
Speaker
And how okay would you be with...
00:36:20
Speaker
him doing this in real life, like sneaking up to somebody's window, essentially for free, without their knowledge, peeing in hand, and jacking off while watching them have relations like, would you be okay with that?
00:36:36
Speaker
Like, is that a good man?
00:36:37
Speaker
Like, is that normal?
00:36:39
Speaker
Is that healthy?
00:36:41
Speaker
Is that okay?
00:36:42
Speaker
Because I don't know, to me, it's just seems weird.
00:36:46
Speaker
Well, we're not perfect.
00:36:47
Speaker
We all have flaws.
00:36:50
Speaker
That's the response you get.
00:36:52
Speaker
You know, it's like, that's the thing.
00:36:53
Speaker
You can bring the horse to the water.
00:36:54
Speaker
You can't make them drink it.
00:36:55
Speaker
Right.
00:36:55
Speaker
I've been with women who've been in emotionally abusive relationships where I'm like, do you think that in your highest self, like with the best relationship you could possibly have, that this is the way that a person who loves you would treat you?
00:37:05
Speaker
And their immediate response is to get defensive and say, well, I'm not perfect too.
00:37:09
Speaker
As though perfection is like the toll you need to pay in order to get a good relationship.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah, my favorite response is, oh, well, women read romance novels.
00:37:18
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:37:19
Speaker
I forgot.
00:37:19
Speaker
That's the exact same thing.
00:37:21
Speaker
It's the exact same thing to read about a woman being like inherently like... Loved, cherished.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah, loved, respected.
00:37:31
Speaker
A universe where a man is sexy and treats her well.
00:37:33
Speaker
Oh my God, how radical.
00:37:36
Speaker
Oh, how dare she, right?
00:37:38
Speaker
That's literally fantasy.
00:37:39
Speaker
Now that's actual sci-fi fantasy.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:42
Speaker
And these two pictures are the same, like a woman literally being forced to like gag on things and like being forced to her knees and being forced objects inside.
00:37:53
Speaker
That's the same.
00:37:54
Speaker
We know the false equivalency.
00:37:55
Speaker
And that's like something where like, again, I come back to this again and again, Lisa and Diana.
00:38:00
Speaker
It's like this is what I ultimately had to come to terms with with my own brother that I ultimately had to cut off.
00:38:06
Speaker
Lisa, I've nicknamed him the alt-right.
00:38:09
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:38:10
Speaker
Right.
00:38:10
Speaker
Like I would be considered an enemy estate in his mind, you know, and like after a certain point, you know, I tried and I tried and he has sons and I was like, I want to be a good auntie.
00:38:19
Speaker
I don't want to.
00:38:20
Speaker
But ultimately it was like this man is not operating in good faith.
00:38:23
Speaker
And if your own brother, if your own family is coming at you with such ill will, there is nothing to save here anymore.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
And it's this inherent weakness to me.
00:38:33
Speaker
Like, I think men very viscerally are aware of the benefits that the patriarchy has for them.
00:38:40
Speaker
And I think it takes a strong, brave and actually good hearted man to reject those benefits and to put himself in positions where he
00:38:51
Speaker
he lifts up those that are more marginalized, like where he realizes his like privilege and is aware of it and is like rightfully kind of like ashamed to use it.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like you shouldn't be so proud.
00:39:03
Speaker
Like men will be like, we built the world at what cost?
00:39:07
Speaker
You wrote laws that didn't allow women to,
00:39:11
Speaker
to build the world with you.
00:39:13
Speaker
And to this day, the industries where that men, you know, talk about, well, it's only men that work these jobs, women never want to work these jobs.
00:39:23
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, because the rates of harassment and assault and misogyny in those jobs is off the charts, because y'all are very viscerally aware of
00:39:35
Speaker
That if women came in and were able to perform these jobs as well as you on the same level, which they can, then you would lose your perceived and artificial value that you created for yourselves, a simulated environment to thrive in.
00:39:51
Speaker
And it comes at our cost.
00:39:55
Speaker
It comes straight out of a woman's pocket.
00:39:57
Speaker
And I hate that.
00:39:58
Speaker
And that's why I hate that.
00:39:59
Speaker
Like women are like, well, if I just have to settle, then I guess that's what I'll do.
00:40:04
Speaker
Like, are you crazy?
00:40:06
Speaker
Do you not actually realize how much of yourself, your health, your potential, your actual potential, you're going to sacrifice and just bury in the ground for a mediocre man who has been living off of unearned, unmerited privilege his whole life?
00:40:27
Speaker
Lisa, this is what I say.
00:40:29
Speaker
I'm like, marriage is DEI for men.
00:40:33
Speaker
I do want to bring it back to that question I asked earlier, though, because I really want to know what your thoughts are about, you know, again, you have a public platform and you also obviously espouse the same values in person.
00:40:44
Speaker
And I want to know, like, you know, has there been any consequences to your values, like living those values?
00:40:50
Speaker
And also, like, you know, how have you dealt with the resistance that you've gotten back from people about people are not open to that message?
00:40:55
Speaker
Like, do you have any advice?
00:40:57
Speaker
Because like a lot of women that listen to us, they talk about how hard it is to find like minded FDS type women.
00:41:03
Speaker
And, you know, anytime they talk about having high standards and dreaming of a better world for themselves, dreaming of a better life for themselves, they are met with so much resistance from, I mean, long story short, pick me women, right?
00:41:13
Speaker
Who are like, no, that's just unsustainable and just not possible, right?
00:41:17
Speaker
And so do you have any message for like people are listening about like, how to keep the energy up, you know, like how to not be self-defeatist and then suddenly start getting into this limited scarcity mindset?
00:41:29
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:41:30
Speaker
So I have gotten pushback.
00:41:32
Speaker
What I do for the most part is men's opinions, like especially ones where they're like strongly disagreeing with my content, have like negative value to me.
00:41:44
Speaker
Like I do not give a shit.
00:41:46
Speaker
Like I block them for my safety.
00:41:50
Speaker
And I move on.
00:41:51
Speaker
Right.
00:41:51
Speaker
So like men who disagree with it, I don't fucking care.
00:41:54
Speaker
Of course you disagree with it.
00:41:56
Speaker
Of course you disagree with it.
00:41:57
Speaker
I'm exposing your whole ass.
00:41:59
Speaker
Like, of course you disagree with it.
00:42:02
Speaker
Most of them are not mentally strong enough to like handle the reality.
00:42:06
Speaker
It's like extinction burst in my comments.
00:42:09
Speaker
They're like, oh, but, but man, like, no, shut, like,
00:42:12
Speaker
you're gone.
00:42:13
Speaker
Like I literally just block.
00:42:15
Speaker
And the only time that I get concerned about people pushing back in my comments is when it's a lot of women.
00:42:23
Speaker
Basically, all the comments unanimously are like, that's wrong.
00:42:26
Speaker
Or like, that's not what actually happened.
00:42:29
Speaker
Or that's not what's actually you know, that's happened like a couple times.
00:42:32
Speaker
And I'm very happy to like, go back, reeducate myself and like, you know,
00:42:39
Speaker
try and take it in stride as much as possible.
00:42:41
Speaker
And that's happened before.
00:42:43
Speaker
And that's totally fine.
00:42:44
Speaker
I have gotten some pushback from people I know in real life.
00:42:48
Speaker
Once again, like there was just men that unfollowed me like they were super supportive at first, but then there's a certain threshold, you know,
00:42:56
Speaker
I think men support you like they're doing you a favor.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:42:59
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:42:59
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:43:00
Speaker
And then the second you're like, oh, no, now it's too much.
00:43:02
Speaker
And now I'm going to withhold my support.
00:43:04
Speaker
Like you're a puppy dog that's waiting for treats.
00:43:06
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:07
Speaker
That was the case for a few.
00:43:09
Speaker
And then there were some that like would push back and then I would push back on that.
00:43:13
Speaker
And then they'd come back to me and be like, you know, you're right.
00:43:16
Speaker
Like I started doing more research, more digging, talk to women.
00:43:20
Speaker
And yeah, you're right.
00:43:21
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:43:22
Speaker
Like, that's been a very positive experience.
00:43:25
Speaker
And yeah, I will say lately, most of my pushback has been from like women on hair splitting issues.
00:43:31
Speaker
And that's been very frustrating.
00:43:33
Speaker
And that's, you know, a whole different topic.
00:43:36
Speaker
But yeah,
00:43:37
Speaker
I also think like, unfortunately, I have a lot of privilege, like even when y'all talk about like, oh, you show your face and stuff like I'm married.
00:43:45
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:43:46
Speaker
People know that like men are less likely to try to like attack me.
00:43:51
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:43:52
Speaker
Like it's a certain kind because we live under the patriarchy for me to be.
00:43:57
Speaker
you know, coupled with a man who's extremely supportive of this content and like everything like that just kind of de-weaponizes a lot of the critics, right?
00:44:07
Speaker
So like a lot of pick me women can't come to me and be like, oh, but see, this is why you're not.
00:44:12
Speaker
This is why you don't have a man.
00:44:13
Speaker
Exactly.
00:44:14
Speaker
And so there's like the built in privilege, like I'm literally benefiting by proxy from the patriarchy.
00:44:21
Speaker
And that's kind of why the reason I feel a lot more comfortable.
00:44:25
Speaker
And I totally understand, you know, women that don't feel comfortable, even with like, you know, Melanie Hamlet, like, because she's slightly older, she's
00:44:35
Speaker
you know, or because she presents in like certain ways, like people feel so comfortable, like critiquing her and like talking to her certain ways.
00:44:44
Speaker
And once again, especially women.
00:44:45
Speaker
And like, it's been lately, like a lot of us creators that are in relationships have been just getting a lot of pushback from women being like, you're basically setting the cause back and like, things like that, which is something to unpack.
00:44:59
Speaker
But you know what?
00:44:59
Speaker
And now that you notice, it makes so much sense because another TikTok person I really love is Cecilia Regina, who does all the Sex and City content.
00:45:06
Speaker
And I noticed that she doesn't show her face either.
00:45:07
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure it's everything to do with the fact that she's a black woman.
00:45:11
Speaker
She just attracts that much more hatred for the content that she spills, even though it's the same thing.
00:45:15
Speaker
It's like she's not saying anything different from what you and Mel Hamlet are saying, you know, so...
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:20
Speaker
And I think it's also like there's so much at the intersection of like why I don't get as much criticism, right?
00:45:27
Speaker
Like I'm white, you know, I may not be like American white, but I'm white, like for all intents and purposes.
00:45:33
Speaker
I'm just a white woman, you know, for as far as like pretty privilege goes, you know, I notice I don't get a lot of comments about my looks from men because, you know, I don't know, maybe because they feel like that's the wrong tree to bark up.
00:45:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:45:46
Speaker
Or they'll, you know, a lot of the comments like would be different if like people knew my age or whatever, because a lot of men will be like, wait till you turn 30.
00:45:55
Speaker
And I'm like, wait till you find out I'm 33.
00:45:56
Speaker
Like, you know.
00:45:59
Speaker
Or, you know, wait till like you get old and die with cats.
00:46:02
Speaker
It's like, wait till you find out I've been happily married for 13 years.
00:46:06
Speaker
And so it's a lot of it is like there is certain privileges that kind of neutralize certain levels of attack.
00:46:14
Speaker
But it is very exhausting, like the whole of it and like the rise in popularity.
00:46:20
Speaker
Like I got on YouTube and I realized people were making things.
00:46:24
Speaker
videos with my content, like from TikTok on YouTube, or like sometimes I'll be scrolling Twitter and I'll come across one of my videos being reposted to Twitter.
00:46:34
Speaker
And it's a lot.
00:46:35
Speaker
It like kind of makes you want to just disappear sometimes and like stop being perceived because it's everybody has an opinion, you know, and then of course, you know, people want to split hairs and you're like, this is like a three to five minute video.
00:46:49
Speaker
Like I can't address
00:46:50
Speaker
every single concern in the world on this, you know, people are like, why didn't you say this?
00:46:55
Speaker
Or like, you could have pointed out that this like, yeah, it's a lot.
00:46:58
Speaker
But back to like your real question of like, women thinking that have to settle or that they have to listen to this kind of pushback.
00:47:06
Speaker
My only answer to that, and this is genuinely how I feel.
00:47:10
Speaker
And I'm realizing this is kind of what
00:47:13
Speaker
sets some of us apart from like, just being able to distinguish the brainwashing.
00:47:18
Speaker
I always think of myself first, like it has never been a question for me.
00:47:23
Speaker
This is what's the most mind boggling thing to me about women that are like sort of stuck in that pick me stage or just still trying to grasp like quite how the patriarchy affects them.
00:47:35
Speaker
It makes you think about yourself last, ladies.
00:47:39
Speaker
You literally have to be viscerally all the time aware of like, what are you putting first in your mind?
00:47:46
Speaker
And it should always be you.
00:47:49
Speaker
My parents always told me this one thing of like people who criticize you.
00:47:54
Speaker
They'd always ask me this question.
00:47:55
Speaker
Who are they?
00:47:56
Speaker
Like, sure, whatever they're saying, like it may be true, like whatever.
00:47:59
Speaker
Who are they?
00:48:00
Speaker
And why do you care?
00:48:02
Speaker
So like these people that are criticizing your aunties, your uncles, your grandparents, who are they?
00:48:08
Speaker
Look at them objectively, right?
00:48:10
Speaker
Don't think this is my mom, dad, cousin, uncle.
00:48:14
Speaker
What kind of life do they lead?
00:48:16
Speaker
Are they happy?
00:48:17
Speaker
What is the fruit that grows on their tree?
00:48:20
Speaker
Because happy people genuinely do not give a fuck what other people are doing unless it's like harmful or hurting them or other people.
00:48:29
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:48:30
Speaker
That's the only time I care what somebody else is doing.
00:48:33
Speaker
This is the same advice I got from my parents as well, which was that, you know, never take advice on people who are miserable because misery loves company.
Personal Growth and Independence
00:48:41
Speaker
That probably saved you a lot of trouble in the long run because it's crazy how many parents will model the exact opposite, you know?
00:48:48
Speaker
And I always watched my parents living their best life.
00:48:52
Speaker
And like while all of my friends were like, there is just has paid off in so many ways.
00:48:57
Speaker
Like I won't go into like stories for like privacy reasons, but like my parents held out on certain things while everybody else was like doing this one thing.
00:49:07
Speaker
My parents were like, no, not yet, not yet, not yet.
00:49:10
Speaker
And when they finally did their big one, like it's their big one, you know, like they have always, they've taught me to just never go with the flow to always put myself first.
00:49:21
Speaker
Like, what do you want?
00:49:22
Speaker
Like they taught me to live like an intentional life.
00:49:26
Speaker
And I especially learned this from my dad.
00:49:29
Speaker
Like my dad never had a minute where he was just sitting around.
00:49:33
Speaker
Like he would put his feet up and like,
00:49:36
Speaker
whatever, when we were all done with everything, you know, he's so intentional, you know, like my parents garden, they're always, you know, kind of like, remodeling their home, like their project.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:49:51
Speaker
That is my recommendation to women get intentional about your fucking life.
00:49:56
Speaker
What does it matter if a man is there?
00:49:58
Speaker
At the end of the day, long term, look around at most women that have been married for a long time.
00:50:05
Speaker
what do they have to show for it?
00:50:09
Speaker
You're such a hard hitter, Lisa, but it's like such a gentle and loving way.
00:50:13
Speaker
It's such a great combination because, you know, this is something that I've struggled with in my lifetime too.
00:50:18
Speaker
It's just like coming to understand that who cares if they're your brother or your sister or whomever, if you look at them and you look at the way they treat you and you're like, would you ever accept this from anyone else?
00:50:29
Speaker
Right.
00:50:30
Speaker
I think some people look at that and they still find it really hard to push back.
00:50:34
Speaker
I do want to bring up one last thing because we are entering the end of our episode.
00:50:37
Speaker
So I want to give you a chance to like plug anything you want to plug.
00:50:39
Speaker
But I also want to ask you one last question.
00:50:42
Speaker
I mean, you know, you got married really, really young.
00:50:44
Speaker
And I think a lot of women, you know, feel a lot of nervousness once they hit their 30s and stuff about like what's available out there and their prospects and things like that.
00:50:52
Speaker
Do you have any words of encouragement or anything you have to say about what you observed and just men in general?
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:51:00
Speaker
So your prospects actually get better as you age.
00:51:05
Speaker
And I'll say that the only reason I got married that young is because divorce was always on the table.
00:51:12
Speaker
And it always has been on the table.
00:51:14
Speaker
You know, I find it so crazy when people are like, oh, yeah, we've stayed married because back in the day when things were broken, you would just fix it.
00:51:23
Speaker
Nope.
00:51:24
Speaker
It should be relatively easy to have a good relationship with your, you know, lifelong partner.
00:51:30
Speaker
Like you should pick someone that it's generally easy with, where you're generally on the same page.
00:51:37
Speaker
And most of the growth you're going to have to do is like your own.
00:51:41
Speaker
So keep that in mind.
00:51:42
Speaker
Like there's nothing you can do for a relationship.
00:51:46
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:51:46
Speaker
Like you have to just always work on yourself and then you'll have good relationships with everybody and it won't matter.
00:51:52
Speaker
But the point is, not only do your dating prospects get better as you age, and so many women can attest to this.
00:52:00
Speaker
Like I've heard this statement over and over, like it's very empty, like threatening of women that like, oh, you're going to hit the wall once you're 30, like whatever.
00:52:11
Speaker
You absolutely will not.
00:52:13
Speaker
The prospects may get like fewer and further in between, but they will be more established people.
00:52:21
Speaker
Probably better for you in the long run.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:52:24
Speaker
And also, I don't think enough women realize that like, I don't want to get to men and women's nature or whatever.
00:52:33
Speaker
But I just think a lot of people underestimate that like, women are nature's actual alphas, like the way that we've been set up by the culture with
00:52:44
Speaker
radical responsibility, and like everything sort of working against us, it's made us so strong, so resilient, so like understanding things and dynamics and the connections of the world so deeply that most men will not bring you like mental pleasure, stimulation, like
00:53:11
Speaker
What you're looking for, it exists within yourself.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:53:14
Speaker
Like it always comes back to that for me.
00:53:16
Speaker
I don't even want to give women like dating advice or like dating encouragement because it's in you.
00:53:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:23
Speaker
Human development.
00:53:24
Speaker
That's what you want for us all.
00:53:25
Speaker
We just want us to develop ourselves.
00:53:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:53:28
Speaker
And I just think like once men see that, I think that might be the only thing.
00:53:34
Speaker
But I don't know.
00:53:35
Speaker
Whenever they see that, they just get mad at us.
00:53:37
Speaker
I don't know.
00:53:38
Speaker
I'm just saying like you're barking up the wrong tree.
00:53:41
Speaker
If you're really like, no, well, like all I really want in life is just this relationship.
00:53:46
Speaker
You have to be realistic.
00:53:48
Speaker
I think you have to know that it's all within you.
00:53:50
Speaker
Like whatever is possible, like you are the one that makes that happen at the end of the day.
00:53:54
Speaker
Yes.
00:53:55
Speaker
And, you know, with that, we've come to the end of our podcast, Lisa.
00:53:58
Speaker
We're so grateful for creating this.
00:54:00
Speaker
I know.
00:54:00
Speaker
I'm so sad too.
00:54:01
Speaker
We've been so on and on and on.
00:54:03
Speaker
And I know for a fact that we will definitely have you back on.
00:54:06
Speaker
We're so happy that you were able to join us today.
00:54:08
Speaker
Would you like to, you know, shout out your TikTok and your podcast?
00:54:11
Speaker
Now would be the time.
00:54:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:54:14
Speaker
So y'all can find me at YV underscore edit on YouTube on TikTok.
00:54:20
Speaker
And then of course, the Audacity, our official podcast, it is spelled like Audacity and then T-E-A.
00:54:29
Speaker
We have a Patreon, we are on every podcast platform.
00:54:33
Speaker
We are now on video.
00:54:35
Speaker
So we have a TikTok for it as well.
00:54:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
So huge shout out to our producer, Ryan at Siren Sound.
00:54:47
Speaker
Check him out, please, for your podcasting needs.
00:54:50
Speaker
If anyone's looking for that, he is incredible.
00:54:54
Speaker
And yeah, proof that there are good men out there that will work hard for our causes, which we love to see.
00:55:01
Speaker
Love to see it.
00:55:02
Speaker
Thank you again, Lisa.
00:55:03
Speaker
Thank you so much for your time.
00:55:05
Speaker
And thank you for the wonderful work you're putting out into the world.
00:55:08
Speaker
We need it.
00:55:09
Speaker
Thanks so much, y'all.
00:55:11
Speaker
And on that note, die mad, Scroats.
00:55:13
Speaker
Die so mad.
00:55:14
Speaker
As always.
00:55:16
Speaker
Have a good weekend, everyone.