Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Emotional Maturity: The Foundation of a Secure Partner
145 Plays6 months ago
The Queens unpack emotional maturity, why it’s the core of any functional relationship and how to recognise it (or the lack of it).
🎙️ Episode Resources & Links
📘 Free Download – FDS Handbook
Level up your dating strategy with the official Female Dating Strategy Handbook.
👉 Download here
💖 Support the Podcast
Want more FDS content? Join us on our NEW and IMPROVED Patreon!
👉 Join the Level Up Lounge on Patreon
🌐 Explore More FDS
Website: thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Twitter: @femdatstrat
Instagram: @_thefemaledatingstrategy
Recommended
Transcript
Savannah's Return & Podcast Evolution
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm your host, Diana.
00:00:06
Speaker
And I am Savannah, and it is great to be back on the main podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
Yay!
00:00:10
Speaker
We're so happy to have you back.
00:00:13
Speaker
It is.
00:00:14
Speaker
I am filling in for the lovely Rose, who is currently traveling and having a bit of a break at the moment.
00:00:20
Speaker
So yeah, it's really good to be back on the main podcast and to be dissecting the shit show that is currently dating at the moment.
00:00:29
Speaker
Can I just say, I remember when I first interviewed for the gig, I think it was you and I were recording.
00:00:35
Speaker
And it didn't hit me at that moment that I was recording with you because I was so used to listening to you on the podcast that you were speaking.
00:00:41
Speaker
And then I just had this big pregnant silent pause because I was like, wow, she's making real points.
00:00:47
Speaker
And then you were just waiting expectantly for me like, when is she going to say something?
00:00:50
Speaker
thing and I was like whoops it's still wild to think that I'm on this but I find it so funny that I've spent years listening to you it's crazy now to think of it that way it's really sweet me to say that and it's always so humbling like to hear that that I invoke that reaction in people and yeah it has been I think about four years now which is it's been a graft but also the new episodes have been great I still listen to
00:01:16
Speaker
the main podcast
Community for Women in Dating: Isolation to Online Spaces
00:01:17
Speaker
and I really like the way you and Rose have just taken the main podcast and run with it as well so we put it in really good hands it wasn't an easy podcast to hand over especially because people associate the podcast and rightfully so because we were the first hosts with myself and Rowan Lilith so it wasn't an easy role for you both to step into but I think you've done it so well and you've just run with it which is good
00:01:43
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:44
Speaker
We really appreciate that.
00:01:45
Speaker
We love doing the podcast.
00:01:47
Speaker
It's definitely a highlight of my life now.
00:01:49
Speaker
I just enjoy being able to talk to women and just being so involved in this process.
00:01:54
Speaker
It's just been fun.
00:01:55
Speaker
I can imagine it was super fun for you guys as well.
00:01:59
Speaker
It was.
00:01:59
Speaker
I think you develop a special kind of bond with your podcast co-host.
00:02:04
Speaker
And I can tell that you and Rose have developed that as well.
00:02:08
Speaker
And it's really awesome to see, considering that you didn't know each other beforehand, just like me, Rome and Lilith, like we didn't know each other before we started recording.
00:02:16
Speaker
So I think that's the beauty of the community.
00:02:18
Speaker
I think it's so relieving to know that there are so many other women that feel the same way that you do.
00:02:24
Speaker
It's so isolating when you're in the process of dating and you're surrounded by bad advice.
00:02:29
Speaker
And sometimes you're surrounded by bad friends and bad company, bad family that will encourage you to be in destructive patterns.
00:02:35
Speaker
And then
00:02:35
Speaker
having that one space on the internet where people were talking sense, I was like, oh my God, finally, you feel like you're in, I don't know, some pod culture.
00:02:44
Speaker
You're in the matrix.
00:02:45
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:02:46
Speaker
You're in this strange world that is alien.
00:02:49
Speaker
And then you have people talking and making sense.
00:02:51
Speaker
And you're like, oh my God.
00:02:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:52
Speaker
So thank God it's not just me.
00:02:54
Speaker
I was really isolated in my way of thinking and being like, isn't this just common sense?
00:02:58
Speaker
But it turns out that there's actually quite a few women that think like me.
00:03:01
Speaker
And so that's always really relieving to know
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the internet has done a lot of things wrong.
00:03:09
Speaker
But I think one of the things that has definitely got right is that women now have places where we can talk about things like dating and our experiences
FDS Strategy & Relationship Dynamics
00:03:16
Speaker
with men.
00:03:16
Speaker
And we don't have to feel so isolated and alone.
00:03:20
Speaker
And we don't have to internalize the actions of a single man because we know that it is part of a wider structure.
00:03:27
Speaker
It's part of a wider inequality that transcends each of us.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:03:33
Speaker
And it's so easy to take the blame and just be like, this is entirely my fault.
00:03:36
Speaker
And it's like something I did, the way I look, the environment, I'm doing something wrong.
00:03:41
Speaker
Like, I'm the reason why I don't have a good relationship is a very messed up place to be.
00:03:47
Speaker
It's so easy to take blame and be like, I'm the one to blame for this structural issue.
00:03:52
Speaker
And that's a big part of the reason I think men have prevented us from sharing notes.
00:03:56
Speaker
That's why I also think that like FDS faced so much pushback on Reddit, because I think they knew that if all of us are in their eyes colluding with each other and talking about these issues, we're going to come to realize there's a pattern of behavior here that like they're intentional.
00:04:11
Speaker
It's malicious.
00:04:12
Speaker
It's not benign.
00:04:13
Speaker
It's not something they're doing by accident.
00:04:15
Speaker
It's very intentional.
00:04:16
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:04:18
Speaker
So we talk a lot about vetting and how to do that.
00:04:22
Speaker
And that is really important.
00:04:23
Speaker
And that I think is what actually set FDS apart is that we came with the strategy element, especially when it comes to men, right?
00:04:31
Speaker
When you just complain at men, they don't process it the same way that we as women do.
00:04:38
Speaker
I think that women, when we try to appeal to men's better nature, we see it as
00:04:43
Speaker
I'm trying to make this man's life better.
00:04:44
Speaker
I'm trying to make us happier.
00:04:46
Speaker
He just sees it as you're just nagging, right?
00:04:49
Speaker
So FDS was sort of like, we'll say no to that.
00:04:52
Speaker
Just start basically cutting these men out.
00:04:54
Speaker
If they're not performing the way you want them to perform, if they're not coming correct the first time, just cut them out.
00:05:01
Speaker
And that was why FDS, I think, was such a target on Reddit.
00:05:06
Speaker
It is why even before this podcast was released, they tried to get it shut down.
00:05:10
Speaker
And other, I guess, more lib femme spaces, the ones that write think pieces about how shit toxic masculinity is, but they don't really want to offend men too much.
00:05:20
Speaker
And they say not all men all throughout to soften the blow.
00:05:23
Speaker
Those sorts of places, they're allowed to continue because ultimately men don't see that as a threat.
00:05:28
Speaker
But when a woman makes a plan and that plan excludes men, that's when they begin to panic.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yep.
00:05:35
Speaker
It's pink patriarchy.
00:05:37
Speaker
The only reason they allow them there is because they're pandering to men in some way.
00:05:42
Speaker
And it helps men so much because I think at the end of the day, I think we've just been conditioned to respect men in a way that they don't respect us.
00:05:50
Speaker
And in a way that they don't deserve.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they don't deserve it, but they don't do it back either.
00:05:55
Speaker
So it's like we're foregoing respect for love because we've been told that love is a loftier goal and that it's okay to put up with disrespect because you're going to get love out of it and love is so much more meaningful.
00:06:06
Speaker
And so I think a lot of women put up with disrespect because they're like, yeah, but what we have is love and isn't that more meaningful?
00:06:11
Speaker
But you will never meet a man who will trade respect for love ever.
00:06:16
Speaker
It's better to be respected than loved, to be honest.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, and it's in the way they treat each other, right?
00:06:22
Speaker
Like, whenever a man is disrespectful to me and, like, disrespectful of my time, I always think, would he do this to a man he respects?
00:06:30
Speaker
Probably no.
00:06:31
Speaker
Never.
00:06:32
Speaker
No!
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:34
Speaker
He would never do this to his boss.
00:06:35
Speaker
He wouldn't even do this to his deadbeat dad.
00:06:37
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:06:38
Speaker
He wouldn't do it even to him, so.
00:06:40
Speaker
Because, like, they reserve all the smoke they should have directed to their deadbeat dysfunctional father.
00:06:45
Speaker
They direct it to their mother who stayed, so...
00:06:47
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:48
Speaker
And they're disrespectful to the woman who actually loved them unconditionally.
Emotional Maturity & Relationship perceptions
00:06:52
Speaker
Like all men say they want is unconditional love.
00:06:54
Speaker
And the one person who gives them that love is a person they disrespect above all else.
00:06:59
Speaker
Makes no sense.
00:07:00
Speaker
So this week, we want to unpack emotional maturity because we think that this is the core of any functional relationship.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:09
Speaker
And we want to be able to understand it, recognize it, recognize when you have a lack of it.
00:07:14
Speaker
And Savannah, do you want to take it away?
00:07:17
Speaker
Yes, 100%.
00:07:18
Speaker
So emotional maturity is the foundation of any functional relationship.
00:07:23
Speaker
And it's not, again, it's not something that women are taught to look out for when they're vetting for a man.
00:07:29
Speaker
We talk about high value and is he respectful?
00:07:32
Speaker
Can he provide and all that stuff?
00:07:34
Speaker
It is all well and good.
00:07:35
Speaker
But emotional maturity is...
00:07:37
Speaker
is a big one.
00:07:38
Speaker
And it's not only emotional maturity in the men that you're vetting, but it's also emotional maturity in yourself.
00:07:43
Speaker
I think a lot of the times when women internalize the actions or the shitty actions of the men that they're with or the men that they've been with, it stems from an underdeveloped sense of emotional maturity because emotional maturity is ultimately the ability to identify and to regulate your own emotions.
00:08:04
Speaker
And women especially, we are taught to become enmeshed emotionally with men from quite a young age.
00:08:10
Speaker
Because ultimately we're taught, if you look at Disney, right?
00:08:13
Speaker
If we look at Disney, we see the princesses.
00:08:15
Speaker
So, I mean, I love the cartoon and I actually quite enjoy the live action.
00:08:18
Speaker
I love watching it at home, but it's just the biggest bunch of bullshit in terms of
00:08:24
Speaker
Emotional, like in terms of abusive relationships and emotional enmeshment between Belle and the beast.
00:08:31
Speaker
Right.
00:08:32
Speaker
So it's the ability to regulate your own emotion and also to recognize and to separate your emotions from that of your partner as well.
00:08:40
Speaker
And it's quite a difficult thing to do.
00:08:43
Speaker
Because again, we're not taught how to do it or how to identify it or how to develop it.
00:08:47
Speaker
It's interesting you bring up Beauty and the Beast because we talk about the Beast a lot and we forget that there's like another toxic male figure in that film, which is Gaston.
00:08:55
Speaker
And I always think about him because I think there's a lot of men who are like him, who specifically see women as trophies.
00:09:01
Speaker
Because like the thing is, it's not like he can't get any woman he wants in that village.
00:09:04
Speaker
Like people put him on a pedestal, but he specifically wants Belle because she's a prize in his eyes.
00:09:09
Speaker
He doesn't even really care to relate to her.
00:09:11
Speaker
It's about what she represents.
00:09:12
Speaker
And I think when we see a lot of men in our lives, a lot of them approach relationships that way.
00:09:17
Speaker
They think about what marriage can do for them, what women can do for them.
00:09:21
Speaker
They're not really concerned with that person's rich inner world, their lives, whether they're even attracted to you.
00:09:27
Speaker
They're like, well, he even says it in the song.
00:09:29
Speaker
He's like, I am the best.
00:09:31
Speaker
Don't I deserve the best?
00:09:32
Speaker
And like a lot of men have that attitude.
00:09:34
Speaker
A lot of men think they're the best.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, and that's absolutely true as well.
00:09:39
Speaker
And when you say that, it sort of brought me back to when a lot of times, especially if they deem a woman to be unattainable, which is what Gaston deems Belle to be, because she doesn't swoon over him.
00:09:51
Speaker
She's clearly very smart.
00:09:52
Speaker
She likes her books.
00:09:54
Speaker
and she's not available to him, right?
00:09:56
Speaker
It sort of makes them think that I have to attain her, but they don't want to contain her, as in that they don't want to protect her, even like her or even love her.
00:10:08
Speaker
They just want to say, oh, well, I got her.
00:10:10
Speaker
Because it would have been as clear as day if there was a Gaston and a Bell relationship that the minute she agreed to be his girlfriend or his wife, he would have been treating her like shit.
00:10:21
Speaker
Exactly.
00:10:22
Speaker
And I think one of the things about emotional maturity is it's a lot about how deeply you know yourself.
00:10:28
Speaker
A lot of men just don't know themselves.
00:10:30
Speaker
And I mean, I wish I could say it's just specific to men.
00:10:33
Speaker
But I think like a lot of our early childhood informs the way that we meet ourselves and whether we're like
00:10:39
Speaker
our development is stuck at like a teenage mindset for a lot of us because a lot of us stay stuck in high school in terms of how much we value male validation.
00:10:48
Speaker
And it never really progresses beyond that.
00:10:50
Speaker
And Lindsay Gibson, one of the books, I don't know if we've recommended this on the podcast, but she's like an amazing writer.
00:10:55
Speaker
She wrote the book called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I really recommend this book for people who are trying to undo their family wounds, especially if you grew up in a negligent family.
00:11:08
Speaker
where the only way that you could get attention from your dad or your mom was by performing, by being the best.
00:11:15
Speaker
I think a lot of women are conditioned to think that in order to be loved, they need to be needed and they need to be useful.
Emotional Manipulation & Recognizing Red Flags
00:11:21
Speaker
And so a lot of women are in this performance audition thing of like, I need to audition for a man.
00:11:25
Speaker
I need to prove my usefulness to him because that's the only way I'll be worthy of love.
00:11:29
Speaker
And I think the core of that is why a lot of women are upset with our advice for the money thing, the 50-50 thing.
00:11:37
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:11:38
Speaker
Like they feel uncomfortable taking money from men for this fundamental reason because they're like, well, I haven't earned it.
00:11:43
Speaker
I should earn it.
00:11:44
Speaker
I need to earn every last ounce of affection from a man because that's how I was conditioned.
00:11:49
Speaker
I was conditioned to think that I'm only lovable if I'm useful.
00:11:54
Speaker
Which is funny because men make this shit up a lot.
00:11:55
Speaker
They say that that's how they feel.
00:11:57
Speaker
Like, oh, a man is not... Nobody will buy a man flowers.
00:12:00
Speaker
Oh, please.
00:12:02
Speaker
You're not loved until you're bringing money.
00:12:05
Speaker
I find this, like, such BS.
00:12:07
Speaker
I always think... My dad had such a good relationship with his hairdressers because he used to go to the salon, like, and do his hair all the time.
00:12:13
Speaker
And let me tell you, that man was never without flowers.
00:12:15
Speaker
Like, his birthday, I never got flowers, okay?
00:12:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:18
Speaker
Nobody sent me flowers.
00:12:19
Speaker
They sent my dad a shit ton of flowers.
00:12:21
Speaker
Like all the businesses he frequented, like all the people he met.
00:12:24
Speaker
Like if you're a well-loved man who treats people well, I'm sorry.
00:12:28
Speaker
It's a skills issue.
00:12:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:29
Speaker
If you're not getting flowers, it's because you're abominable.
00:12:33
Speaker
And also if it's that fucking important to you, why would you not bring it up?
00:12:36
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:12:37
Speaker
If getting flowers is so important to you as a human being, you would think you would mention it to someone.
00:12:42
Speaker
Like men will say, oh, we're not allowed to have feelings.
00:12:45
Speaker
We're not allowed to feel our feelings.
00:12:47
Speaker
You're not allowed to kill and maim women either, but that hasn't stopped you.
00:12:51
Speaker
And also apathy is a feeling.
00:12:53
Speaker
Like anger is a feeling.
00:12:55
Speaker
Feeling like you want to string a woman along or waste her time because you know that she wants marriage and kids and you don't, but you don't have the balls to say that outright because you'll lose the wife benefits.
00:13:07
Speaker
That is a feeling.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yep.
00:13:08
Speaker
And I think there's like, I've seen a lot of patterns of emotionally mature people in general, massive insecurity.
00:13:16
Speaker
One of the biggest things, I think the biggest red flag that people need to look out for in people who lack emotional maturity is this victim complex.
00:13:23
Speaker
A lot of people who are stuck in a victim mindset,
00:13:27
Speaker
they tend to be emotionally immature.
00:13:29
Speaker
Like if the whole world is against them, they tend to have a pattern of like not having long lasting friendships and relationships.
00:13:34
Speaker
They're always beefing with someone.
00:13:36
Speaker
This is a person who like after a point, the common denominator is you.
00:13:41
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:13:42
Speaker
If you're always the person who is at the scene of the crime, there has to be a reason for that.
00:13:48
Speaker
Like men who are always in a, and this is why also I think women just find this shit really unattractive.
00:13:53
Speaker
The whole victim mindset of like, whoa, is me, my mental health.
00:13:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:13:56
Speaker
I've never fallen for it.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I just find it icky.
00:13:58
Speaker
Like when men bring this up,
00:13:59
Speaker
I've never fallen for it either.
00:14:01
Speaker
And it's like when, I don't know about you, Diana, but whenever a guy approached me and early on, he started going down the sob story road.
00:14:10
Speaker
And I think even like Gavin DeBecker, he even said that if a guy approaches you with basically a sob story, he's trying to manipulate you.
00:14:19
Speaker
He knows what he's doing.
00:14:20
Speaker
He's trying to prey on your empathy and your sense of justice as a woman in order to break down your defenses and make you think, oh, he's just down on his luck.
00:14:29
Speaker
He's poor.
00:14:29
Speaker
And every single time a guy has done that to me, the relationship has never ended well.
00:14:34
Speaker
Like it's either, and not necessarily in the sense that we dated and it ended, but more like I saw that he was trying to manipulate me.
00:14:42
Speaker
He was trying to get money out of me.
00:14:44
Speaker
He was trying to get something out of me that wasn't a deep relationship 100% of the time.
00:14:50
Speaker
And what usually winds up happening is you end up feeling taken for granted because no matter how nice you are and how agreeable you are, you want to help them.
00:14:58
Speaker
Obviously, he's down on his luck and you want to make him feel better because you love him or whatever.
00:15:03
Speaker
You always end up feeling like you got the short end of the stick because...
00:15:07
Speaker
Women need to understand how hard it is for you to make money.
00:15:10
Speaker
You need to understand how hard it is for you to move in the world and how much it takes for you to get the same things that men get for a fraction of the effort.
00:15:17
Speaker
I think a lot of women are in, especially if you're in a more developed country, I think it's very easy to be like, well, we live in a much more egalitarian society, so maybe I should play ball and maybe I shouldn't have such a hard line stance on this.
00:15:29
Speaker
No, it doesn't change the actual circumstances situation because women like the level of empathy that they apply to men, they need to understand that no man would ever apply that empathy to you.
00:15:38
Speaker
Like no matter how nice you think this guy is, he would not exchange lives.
00:15:41
Speaker
He would not trade lives with you and he would not treat you the same way.
00:15:44
Speaker
He would not have a fraction of the empathy you have for him in the same way because he recognizes that it's to his benefit.
00:15:50
Speaker
Like people always ask, why is it so easy for men to marry women that they hate?
00:15:54
Speaker
And it's because it's easier to extract labor from someone you don't like because you don't give a shit.
00:15:58
Speaker
It's much harder to manipulate and take advantage of someone you actually like.
00:16:01
Speaker
That you actually like.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I saw that play out when I was involved in the BDSM community.
00:16:06
Speaker
And oftentimes guys would say they would practice BDSM on women that they were casual with or casual play partners, but they can never bring
Accountability & Personal Growth for Women
00:16:15
Speaker
themselves to be violent towards women they were in relationships with or women that they cared about.
00:16:20
Speaker
And that was really telling, really telling.
00:16:23
Speaker
And it just goes to show what you said as well.
00:16:26
Speaker
And we wanted to talk today a little bit to people because we think that as much as we talk about the faults with men, I do think that there is an accountability issue with women as well.
00:16:37
Speaker
And we do want to talk about like signs that you're emotionally immature because that might be holding you back from forming connections with people.
00:16:44
Speaker
If you have an inability to regulate your emotions, if you have undiagnosed trauma of some kind, or you just you're in denial about certain wounds in your life.
00:16:55
Speaker
If you tend to have a lot of relationships or friendships that tend to keep blowing up, it's time that you examine yourself too.
00:17:03
Speaker
And I think a lot of women have like this.
00:17:05
Speaker
It's so easy.
00:17:06
Speaker
We need to stop being like men in the sense that we need to outsource all of our problems and blame everything on
00:17:11
Speaker
an external source.
00:17:13
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:17:13
Speaker
I don't know which book I read this in, but it's like women are internalizers and men are externalizers.
00:17:18
Speaker
Like when something goes wrong with a man, they blame it on the outside world, their environment, the circumstances, et cetera.
00:17:23
Speaker
But when women fuck up, they tend to blame themselves.
00:17:26
Speaker
And this isn't to be like, take all the blame.
00:17:28
Speaker
Of course, there are, it takes two to tango, but I think it's sometimes really important to have an emotionally immature person as someone who does not lack introspection.
00:17:37
Speaker
They're going to look at their own lives and be like, how do I have a hand in my own downfall?
00:17:41
Speaker
How am I self-sabotaging and how am I preventing myself from having a life that I want to live?
00:17:49
Speaker
I mean, 100%.
00:17:49
Speaker
And I think that when FDS, when we first really took off, it was interesting that a good amount of the pushback that we got actually came from other women because they felt that we were victim blaming or we were letting men off the hook or we were because, you know, like FDS has always been grounded in accountability.
00:18:09
Speaker
Like one of the most...
00:18:11
Speaker
Common misconceptions about FDS is that we just encourage you all to just sit back and just be whatever you want to be.
00:18:19
Speaker
And a high value man will land in your lap.
00:18:21
Speaker
That's not the case at all.
00:18:22
Speaker
We've always said it's important for you to level up both physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, so that you can meet men on that level.
00:18:30
Speaker
When we talk about dating levels, in Nigeria, there's a saying that you need to date on your level.
00:18:35
Speaker
And what that means is that if you are an emotionally mature person or you're looking for an emotionally mature partner, if you yourself are not at that stage, not only will you repel them, but you'll also not recognize that quality in other people because you don't have it yourself.
00:18:51
Speaker
And because somebody who is emotionally mature and grounded, they will call you out on your bullshit.
00:18:56
Speaker
My sister always says that she's been married to her husband for almost 10 years now.
00:19:01
Speaker
And she always says that marriage is like a high definition mirror that is on that can sometimes be shining a light or reflecting back your faults.
00:19:11
Speaker
Right.
00:19:13
Speaker
If you are not in a space where you can take accountability, understanding the impact that your decisions have had on your life and the lives of other people, you will not be able to recognize somebody, a man who is emotionally mature, because they will call you out on your bullshit.
00:19:28
Speaker
They're not just going to allow you to just play the victim all the time, because that will be repulsive to them.
00:19:33
Speaker
And with an emotionally mature man, I feel like
00:19:35
Speaker
In general, my principle is you can't change anyone, but a man can definitely make you worse.
00:19:40
Speaker
You could be the most... You know what I mean?
00:19:43
Speaker
You can't change him, but he could definitely change you.
00:19:45
Speaker
You might be the most... And they tend to target women who have their shit together as well.
00:19:50
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:19:50
Speaker
They tend to target women who are independent and industrious.
00:19:54
Speaker
It's the challenge, isn't it?
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:56
Speaker
It's a fetish to cut them down to size.
00:19:58
Speaker
And so they'll go after women who have ambitions and who have dreams, and then they'll...
00:20:03
Speaker
cut you off at the like, like finger by finger, limb by limb until you're a shell of your former self.
00:20:08
Speaker
Like it's definitely possible.
00:20:10
Speaker
That's why who you like your company is so important.
00:20:13
Speaker
Like who you spend your time with is really important.
00:20:15
Speaker
If you're a person who's looking for like optimism and you want to build and grow in life and you surround yourself with people who are extremely pessimistic,
00:20:23
Speaker
And they call that being realistic.
00:20:26
Speaker
See, being realistic is really important.
00:20:28
Speaker
But when it comes to... I always feel like your dreams should be bigger than your feelings about your ability to achieve them.
00:20:33
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:20:34
Speaker
Because the bigger they are, the more you're actually going to strive for them.
00:20:38
Speaker
If you always play in the realm of safe and reliable and realistic, you never really get that far.
00:20:44
Speaker
And using that logic, if you're like, well, realistically, it's not possible for me to imagine a secure, functional relationship where my boyfriend treats me well...
00:20:52
Speaker
and I'm spoiled and I'm treated, I'm pampered and I have everything I want in life and he respects me and he supports my ambitions and he's a supportive partner who does everything he needs to do at home, blah, blah, blah.
00:21:04
Speaker
You can have all of those things and then still be let down by the fact that you have a negative mindset.
00:21:09
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:21:10
Speaker
And that you don't believe that you deserve better.
00:21:13
Speaker
Cultivating emotional maturity is important in the sense that it's not about striving for perfection.
00:21:18
Speaker
It's about recognizing that you have flaws, but also that you're actively working on them, that you have the ability to be accountable to yourself, that you have the ability to hold your partner accountable without
00:21:29
Speaker
fear a lot of women they fear criticizing men as well like they're like oh he won't like me as much if i criticize him or he'll think i'm a nag or he'll want to leave me or whatever like women really like this is what we mean when we say decentral men you really need to stop fearing what will happen if a bad man leaves you because nothing nothing happens you lose nothing
00:21:48
Speaker
You lose nothing apart from his dead weight.
Criticism, Friendships, & Self-Accountability
00:21:50
Speaker
And I often find that when we talk about accountability, because men love saying women aren't accountable, women aren't accountable.
00:21:57
Speaker
And to be fair, to some degree, I agree.
00:22:00
Speaker
I feel like women are bad at being accountable to themselves in the sense that we struggle to make decisions that are in our best interests.
00:22:09
Speaker
Whereas men struggle with accountability to other people.
00:22:14
Speaker
So the most loyal man you'll find, the most accountable man is often accountable and loyal to himself.
00:22:21
Speaker
Like men, they don't mess about with accountability and loyalty when it comes to them and their interests and what they deem important, right?
00:22:28
Speaker
But when it comes to people that they love, especially women, that's when the accountability and loyalty and consistency disappears.
00:22:36
Speaker
For women, I think we have the opposite problem.
00:22:38
Speaker
I think we are very good at being accountable and feeling responsible for other people's crap, especially men.
00:22:43
Speaker
But when it comes to making decisions in our interest, putting ourselves first, seeing if relationships or situations or people actually align with what we want and who we are and who we want to be, that's where we fall short.
00:22:57
Speaker
And I think there needs to be a distinction that's made between criticism and just being a hater because I think a lot of people thought in FDS, like when we gave women solid feedback and criticism that it's like, oh, you're being a hater.
00:23:09
Speaker
You don't understand my love with Bradley.
00:23:11
Speaker
And it's like, no, you need to be able to understand the difference between someone giving you
00:23:16
Speaker
constructive criticism versus someone being a hater.
00:23:20
Speaker
To give you an example, I have a friend who's moving recently and she spoke to another friend about the move and the friend was like, well, what if you don't get a job?
00:23:27
Speaker
And I was like, look, that's a very weirdly unrealistic thing.
00:23:31
Speaker
That's a strange thing to say to a person.
00:23:33
Speaker
If you tell your friend that you're moving and you're excited about a move and the first thing she says is, well, what if you don't get a job?
00:23:38
Speaker
It would be like me saying if she got on a plane, like, well, what if the plane crashes?
00:23:41
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:23:42
Speaker
We know that there's a possibility that might not happen.
00:23:45
Speaker
But the fact that you choose to fixate on the negative first says a lot about that friendship because she's not being supportive of you in that moment.
00:23:52
Speaker
And it's also a very...
00:23:54
Speaker
irrational thing to talk about.
00:23:56
Speaker
It's not being constructive, right?
00:23:58
Speaker
When you're being constructive with someone, it's addressing the root cause of an issue and being like, listen, this is a thing you need to fix because I don't think that you're like, and also you need to be able to be free enough to say that to your friends, your siblings, your family.
00:24:09
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:24:10
Speaker
Like, I don't, I think that this is going to lead you to a path that is not going to bring you much happiness versus straight up not validating somebody else's
00:24:18
Speaker
choices.
00:24:19
Speaker
Because sometimes when I make a choice, for example, people don't agree with me.
00:24:22
Speaker
It's still my choice at the end of the day.
00:24:24
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:24:24
Speaker
I'm not opening this up to the table for a vote.
00:24:27
Speaker
It isn't a referendum, is it?
00:24:29
Speaker
It's not a referendum.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:31
Speaker
But I think that some women, and I have to say this, emotionally immature people see any kind of constructive criticism as a personal attack.
00:24:39
Speaker
So this is something you need to watch out for with other people.
00:24:41
Speaker
They get very defensive if you seem even slightly...
00:24:46
Speaker
like critical about anything.
00:24:48
Speaker
If like, for example, she's telling you, oh, I'm gonna have a baby with this guy, we're not married, we're gonna move in together.
00:24:54
Speaker
And you're like, is that the best idea for you considering you mentioned you never wanted to have children and he doesn't seem that invested in being a father.
00:25:02
Speaker
Now, am I being a hater or am I
00:25:06
Speaker
pointing out that might not result in the kind of life that you want.
00:25:11
Speaker
You need to be able to discern the difference between the two.
00:25:13
Speaker
If someone comes up with something totally random and says it like how this person did in the sense of like, oh, but what if you don't get a job?
00:25:20
Speaker
Yes, of course.
00:25:20
Speaker
I mean, we live in a horrible economy right now.
00:25:22
Speaker
You cannot get a job in any country.
00:25:26
Speaker
I don't think I've heard a single country in the last three years where it's like, oh my God, it's a great place to find a job.
00:25:32
Speaker
You have to come to Indonesia.
00:25:36
Speaker
It's wonderful here.
00:25:37
Speaker
It's so easy to find a job and make money.
00:25:39
Speaker
It's like, no, almost every single person I talk to, no matter where they are in the world is telling you that it's a shit time to find a job.
00:25:45
Speaker
So when you are sharing, like pay attention to your friends, like when you share positive updates in your life, are they happy for you or are they critical?
00:25:53
Speaker
Right.
00:25:54
Speaker
But if you're sharing, again, learn to discern the difference because it's like, oh, I'm happy about moving in with my boyfriend who is going to make me split 50 50.
00:26:01
Speaker
That friend may not be happy for you because she can see you're falling into a trap.
00:26:04
Speaker
And this is where emotional maturity is really important.
00:26:07
Speaker
You need to be emotionally mature to understand the difference between someone offering legitimate criticism and someone being a hater.
00:26:14
Speaker
But in my experience, emotionally mature people in general, no matter what you say to them, they see it as an attack, which is why so many women got defensive on the forum as well.
00:26:23
Speaker
So many women are like, why are you attacking me?
00:26:25
Speaker
Like, I just don't want to.
00:26:25
Speaker
What's so bad about going on a walk date?
00:26:28
Speaker
And this is the thing as well.
00:26:29
Speaker
I see this also in other women only forums and it sort of ties into what you said in that.
00:26:36
Speaker
emotionally mature people they have a strong sense of self right so they know that if people disagree or live their life differently that doesn't mean that they're wrong or that they're or that their choices mean that they're unhappy they just understand that's
00:26:51
Speaker
that's their path right and i find it interesting in the context of if because as you all know i'm on the are we dating the same guy groups in my area if a woman says i want a man to be a provider you get the pick me's coming out of the woodwork saying that she's being unrealistic in colony like you should pay your way like if a guy's paying for everything he's being abusive or whatever and i'm just
00:27:15
Speaker
And I sit there thinking, if you were genuinely happy with your 50-50 or 60-40 or 70-30 or whatever you've got going on, then you wouldn't feel threatened if a woman wants something different because deep down that this is...
00:27:32
Speaker
you know, that's your life and you're happy with what you've done.
00:27:35
Speaker
But what it often brings to the fore, and I think this is why FDS got this part, the reason why FDS does and gets a lot of backlash from women, or really any women in the dating space who talks about women having higher standards, is,
00:27:50
Speaker
is that what it does is that it reminds women that they've settled.
00:27:53
Speaker
And rather than sit with that discomfort and or do something about it, they take out on other women saying you're materialistic, you're being unrealistic, high quality.
00:28:02
Speaker
You can't expect equality and expect a man to pay for you.
00:28:06
Speaker
And all that is just their insecurity and their poor sense of self and their low self-esteem just telling them that they've settled, basically.
00:28:14
Speaker
And as opposed to taking it out on the man that they've settled with or changing their situation or demanding better for themselves, it's easier to take it out on the women who actually demand and get better for themselves.
Media Influence & Financial Independence
00:28:27
Speaker
Yeah, because I think they've also normalized a level of chaos in their life, right?
00:28:31
Speaker
And so they don't want to believe that you can actually have a peaceful life with a man who looks after you and gets some joy from doing that.
00:28:39
Speaker
And doesn't treat you like shit.
00:28:40
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think they're genuinely shocked that there's a man out there who loves you enough and likes you enough to support you, your visions, your dreams, wants to invest in you.
00:28:49
Speaker
Like they think that's like unrealistic.
00:28:51
Speaker
And oh my God, speaking of materialist movie.
00:28:55
Speaker
Oh, geez.
00:28:56
Speaker
The broke man propaganda that's out to get us all.
00:29:01
Speaker
like movies like that one thing that I have to say like it's called Materialist it's the new movie with Pedro Pascal and Dakota Johnson and Chris Evans yeah Chris Evans oh my god it's garbage but it's the same broke man propaganda of like this hyper successful woman ends up like giving up her job to go live with her out of work actor boyfriend who's in his 40s like they like share a home together and it's like this is what I mean by like you need to first of all stop cut off Hollywood
00:29:28
Speaker
I think the first breakup that women need to do is break up with Hollywood.
00:29:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:32
Speaker
Break up with Hollywood first because they are fucking you over.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I've heard so many celebrity women, like Kiki Palmer and stuff, who are like, well, when you have money, it's not that important.
00:29:42
Speaker
And like, I don't really need a man who's going to bring money in my life because I have enough.
00:29:45
Speaker
And like, but do you want to live that woman's life?
00:29:49
Speaker
Like Kiki Palmer is not a person whose life you'd want to emulate.
00:29:53
Speaker
For not having any standards at all, she ended up becoming a victim of domestic abuse.
00:29:57
Speaker
Like you need to stop seeing what women say and you need to start seeing how their lives pan out by the choices that they make.
00:30:03
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:30:04
Speaker
That's what you need to pay attention to because the truth is if you've worked hard for your money and you are now in a position where you're financially stable, you're only one or two calamities away from being right back where you started.
00:30:15
Speaker
And one of the biggest calamities is men.
00:30:18
Speaker
I don't take it for granted that I'm in a financial position right now where I can go after my goals with abandon.
00:30:24
Speaker
I don't have to worry about like I have a cushion.
00:30:27
Speaker
Most women don't have that cushion.
00:30:29
Speaker
And a lot of women rely on men for that cushion, which is a bad idea.
00:30:32
Speaker
It's one thing that he's investing in you, but you should always invest in yourself.
00:30:35
Speaker
Having your own finances is always important.
00:30:37
Speaker
We always say that in this.
00:30:38
Speaker
Like, part of being able to be emotionally mature is to not put yourself in a position where you get into a zone of desperation.
00:30:44
Speaker
If you grew up in a family where resources were tight, you didn't have money, it's possible that you have wounds around money.
00:30:51
Speaker
And you need to be really careful about being with men that trigger those money wounds.
00:30:54
Speaker
100%.
00:30:55
Speaker
Anoush.
00:30:56
Speaker
You have to disregard rich women who are like, well, I'm rich and I don't really need my man to be rich.
00:31:00
Speaker
Because again, what are their actual relationships, right?
00:31:04
Speaker
Are they being respected in those relationships?
00:31:06
Speaker
Are they actually being treated well in those relationships?
00:31:08
Speaker
Like ignore what they say and watch how their lives pan out.
00:31:11
Speaker
And that should tell you everything.
00:31:13
Speaker
I'll just say Mackenzie Bezos, she remarried a science teacher two years later, they were divorced.
00:31:18
Speaker
So I don't know why they got divorced, but yeah, it doesn't always pan out that way to go for somebody who is quite significantly, I'd say, out of your tax bracket.
00:31:33
Speaker
But that's an aside.
00:31:34
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:35
Speaker
And it's relative as well.
00:31:36
Speaker
Because I mean, look at what Jeff Bezos just got married today, didn't he?
00:31:40
Speaker
To Lauren Sanchez, or I forgot her name.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's her name.
00:31:44
Speaker
I think she's a woman who's got her own money.
00:31:46
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:47
Speaker
I think she is.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah, she's very wealthy, independently wealthy.
00:31:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah, she might not be as rich as a billionaire, but she's got money to walk out if she wants to.
00:31:55
Speaker
And that's really important is to have a financial cushion or a financial ability to leave.
00:32:00
Speaker
You might not think it's important at the beginning of the relationship when you're like deep in the honeymoon stage and it's like, oh, he could never do those things to me.
00:32:07
Speaker
But like the man you divorce is very different from the man you marry.
00:32:11
Speaker
Or the man that you leave.
00:32:12
Speaker
It's not even divorce.
00:32:13
Speaker
The man you leave is very different from the man that you got into the relationship with.
00:32:18
Speaker
That's why I never forego respect for love because we can be respectful to each other even at the termination of a relationship.
00:32:26
Speaker
When it's only about love, I feel like sometimes men are like, oh, I don't need to respect you the second I have no control over you.
00:32:32
Speaker
And so like the way that they behave with you post-marriage, it says a lot.
00:32:36
Speaker
So I mean, part of, again, like when we talk about emotional maturity, it's like you need to stop seeing people for who they are in that moment and see them for their patterns and what they represent in life overall,
Developing Self-Awareness & Emotional Maturity
00:32:46
Speaker
right?
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker
Does this person show you that they're capable of growing, that they have like this growth mindset, that they've made positive changes in their life, they've worked on individual issues in their life, and they've actually succeeded in overcoming some of those things.
00:32:59
Speaker
Like those are really important because you need to be doing that.
00:33:01
Speaker
They need to be doing that as well.
00:33:02
Speaker
Right.
00:33:03
Speaker
It's not about like, oh, like I think a lot of people are just looking at it from a position of trauma bonds.
00:33:07
Speaker
Like he and I have very similar traumas and that's why we're together because we both understand each other.
00:33:11
Speaker
And it's like, I'm going to put out a controversial take here.
00:33:14
Speaker
I don't give a hoot about understanding.
00:33:16
Speaker
Right.
00:33:18
Speaker
Understanding means nothing without action to me.
00:33:20
Speaker
I don't care about understanding his pain if it doesn't come with action.
00:33:24
Speaker
Oh, my dad left me and that's why I don't celebrate your birthday.
00:33:27
Speaker
I don't give a shit about that.
00:33:29
Speaker
I don't give a shit about that.
00:33:32
Speaker
But it's true.
00:33:33
Speaker
Again, an emotionally mature person, they know how to separate, as my therapist says.
00:33:38
Speaker
That's their shit.
00:33:39
Speaker
That's not your shit to carry.
00:33:40
Speaker
Like that is something that they need to deal with in a way that doesn't impact you.
00:33:46
Speaker
Are they even aware of their shit?
00:33:47
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:33:48
Speaker
A lot of men have a resistance to acknowledging that they even have shit.
00:33:53
Speaker
Like they'll tell you the most casually traumatic thing that ever happened and be like, Oh, it's no biggie.
00:33:58
Speaker
And I'm telling you, like those people are usually it's like a mask, they're covering up some deeper things that they're not acknowledging.
00:34:04
Speaker
And they expect you to do the emotional labor for them.
00:34:06
Speaker
And if you're not always performing that level of emotional labor for them, which is draining,
00:34:10
Speaker
It's draining to work on somebody else's shit as well.
00:34:12
Speaker
That's what I'm saying.
00:34:13
Speaker
No matter how empathetic you think you are as a person, there is a wall that you will hit as well.
00:34:19
Speaker
Because the more empathetic and emotional you are, the more likely you are to be taken advantage of.
00:34:24
Speaker
And even if you're a person who can put up with one or two or three years of bullshit, eventually even you will hit.
00:34:30
Speaker
It's just a waste of your time.
00:34:31
Speaker
How much do you value your time?
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:33
Speaker
How much do you value your own development as a person?
00:34:36
Speaker
I think we always put these things last and I think they should be the first things we think about.
00:34:41
Speaker
Agreed.
00:34:42
Speaker
In terms of emotional maturity as a concept, I would say that there, and we've covered quite a bit in these episodes, but I'd say there are five key elements.
00:34:51
Speaker
And I will also discuss the ways in which you can develop each and also, and the ways that you can bet for each one.
00:34:58
Speaker
So the first one is self-awareness.
00:35:01
Speaker
So self-awareness, you need to recognize your own
00:35:05
Speaker
It's about recognising your emotions, your thoughts and behaviour patterns, understanding where they've come from.
00:35:11
Speaker
So if that's come from childhood or another experience or a bad relationship experience or whatever, and then understanding the impact that has on other people.
00:35:22
Speaker
And I will say that self-awareness seems to be dying out.
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't know what it is, but the way people behave is...
00:35:28
Speaker
And I think that's a good and a bad thing in that ultimately, if people aren't self-aware, then they're not going to recognize that they need to do work on themselves to become better people.
00:35:38
Speaker
On the flip side, if people do lack self-awareness, they often wear their red flags like a parade.
00:35:44
Speaker
So they are easy to avoid.
00:35:46
Speaker
Right.
00:35:46
Speaker
I also think it's like it has to go with the growing popularity of therapy.
00:35:50
Speaker
Like I feel like a lot of people weaponize therapy speak and it's like, like they're entitled.
00:35:54
Speaker
It's almost like therapy has become like a personality trait.
00:36:00
Speaker
And the assumption is that if somebody is in therapy, that means they're a good person.
00:36:05
Speaker
And it's like, that's not the case.
00:36:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:36:08
Speaker
And it's like you always hear these women being like, they make these jokes like, oh, yeah, men will do anything except go to therapy, except I don't think therapy helps them that much.
00:36:15
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:36:16
Speaker
I don't.
00:36:16
Speaker
I think a lot of men go to therapy and they're like, okay, this is just another tool for me to manipulate women with.
00:36:21
Speaker
And it's very easy to do because women fall for this shit.
00:36:23
Speaker
They're going to think that I sound self-aware.
00:36:26
Speaker
and enlightened because I'm using this therapy speak language.
00:36:29
Speaker
But really, it's a way for me to dodge accountability.
00:36:32
Speaker
It's a way for me to be entitled.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's a way for me to extract emotional labor from this woman without having to do anything in return.
00:36:38
Speaker
Because if she asks me to do something, I'm just going to be like, well, my therapist says and like, you're asking a lot of me and you're it's like gaslighting and oh, my mental bandwidth and boundaries.
00:36:49
Speaker
And this is how much I can give.
00:36:50
Speaker
And you know what I mean?
00:36:51
Speaker
Like, they'll use it as justification to not have to do shit.
00:36:55
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:36:56
Speaker
They'll do the exact opposite of what therapy is supposed to be where it's like, I'm entitled to all of this woman.
00:37:00
Speaker
Like, for example, like they'll ask for exclusivity, but for them, it means, no, I mean, you should be exclusive with me.
00:37:05
Speaker
I don't need to be exclusive with you.
00:37:07
Speaker
And you asking me to be exclusive with you is a violation of my boundaries.
00:37:12
Speaker
Because I believe that love is meant to be shared with everyone.
00:37:14
Speaker
And that's why I think you and I should get into a polyamorous relationship.
00:37:17
Speaker
And it's like, what?
00:37:19
Speaker
How did you do this?
00:37:20
Speaker
And it's like, well, my therapist says, and they'll always drag, they'll triangulate you with this imaginary therapist that they're probably not even seeing.
00:37:26
Speaker
They'll be like, well, Linda says that I should probably open up our relationship, even though we've only been dating a month to another person.
00:37:35
Speaker
don't let yourself get manipulated by these therapy men therapy means it doesn't mean shit i'm telling you whatever people say always look at their actions it doesn't matter what they say their actions will tell you everything 100 so yeah so in terms of developing that that's that sense of self-awareness and also spotting in other people it's
00:37:58
Speaker
I think it's good to be introspective.
00:38:00
Speaker
So journaling is really good for that as well.
00:38:05
Speaker
And therapy, if you are open to being dissected and discussing where your thoughts, behavior patterns actually come from.
00:38:14
Speaker
Therapy isn't for everybody.
00:38:16
Speaker
And I don't mean that in a bad way, but you do have to be ready, I think, to be honest and accountable in therapy if it's going to have the...
00:38:24
Speaker
impact that it's supposed to have, because ultimately your therapist only relies on what you're telling them.
00:38:29
Speaker
And if you are, if you lack self-awareness and you're not telling them the full scope of what's going on, they're limited in how they can support you.
00:38:37
Speaker
A key thing with self-awareness as well is your friendship group.
00:38:40
Speaker
So I cultivate a friendship group that we give each other honest feedback.
00:38:45
Speaker
I'm not a friend to blow hot smoke up your ass if I
00:38:50
Speaker
I think that what you're doing isn't a good idea.
00:38:53
Speaker
And I'll always say why.
00:38:54
Speaker
I mean, I'll always be supportive of my friend regardless, but I'll say what needs to be said.
00:38:59
Speaker
And I expect my friends to do the same with me as well.
00:39:03
Speaker
And this is why it's really important.
00:39:04
Speaker
We'll do an episode on this actually, also to level up your friendship group as well.
00:39:08
Speaker
Don't make friends with people who are perpetual victims or people who basically have defeatist attitudes in life, because that will also drag you down as well.
00:39:18
Speaker
It seeps into your life.
00:39:20
Speaker
And it was Maya Angelou who said, when somebody tells you who they are, believe them.
00:39:24
Speaker
When you meet women who say, I have low self-esteem, I am insecure,
Boundaries, Confidence, & Resilience in Relationships
00:39:30
Speaker
blah, blah.
00:39:30
Speaker
Like a lot of people think that this is being vulnerable in this way is like an excellent thing.
00:39:35
Speaker
Like, oh, she's so self-aware.
00:39:36
Speaker
She's telling me all of her flaws.
00:39:39
Speaker
People also set you up for failure this way is what I've noticed.
00:39:41
Speaker
Like my, like, I'm not even kidding.
00:39:44
Speaker
Like last year I had a friendship breakup with someone who, and this was my lesson to learn.
00:39:48
Speaker
Like I'm going to share a time when I was stupid where I had a lot of empathy and grace for this person because they were like uniquely traumatized and like they owned up to like a lot of their flaws.
00:39:57
Speaker
Right.
00:39:57
Speaker
So I thought, okay, this is a good thing.
00:39:58
Speaker
This is a self-aware person who was like, I have low self-esteem.
00:40:01
Speaker
I'm insecure sometimes, blah, blah.
00:40:03
Speaker
And initially I didn't think it was a big deal because it didn't like personally affect me.
00:40:06
Speaker
And I didn't really see the ramifications of this.
00:40:09
Speaker
But as time went on in the friendship, like those things that she said were exactly why I stopped being friends with that person.
00:40:15
Speaker
Because eventually it's like, oh, she had low self esteem.
00:40:18
Speaker
So she lies about a lot of shit.
00:40:20
Speaker
And she's kind of snide with what she says about you.
00:40:22
Speaker
Like she's not really happy for you.
00:40:24
Speaker
she's insecure.
00:40:25
Speaker
So like every single thing you say, even if it's neutral, sounds like an attack.
00:40:30
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:40:30
Speaker
Like you set up a meeting with somebody else and like, then you tell her, Oh, we're going to meet at this time.
00:40:34
Speaker
She's like, Oh, were you trying to like remove me from this outing?
00:40:37
Speaker
Did you not want me to be there?
00:40:38
Speaker
And it's like, this is such a neutral conversation.
00:40:40
Speaker
Like basically making a mountain out of a molehill,
00:40:43
Speaker
Taking things extremely personally, just being like we would play like card games or board games.
00:40:49
Speaker
And then she'd be like, oh, you think I'm stupid?
00:40:51
Speaker
And I'd be like, what?
00:40:52
Speaker
We're playing Uno.
00:40:53
Speaker
How can I think you're stupid?
00:40:55
Speaker
But like this is what I mean by like when people tell you early on that these are my big red flags and they say it like openly, don't make the mistake of thinking, oh, they're so self-aware.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah, I was gonna say, like, be careful with that.
00:41:06
Speaker
Because sometimes they say that almost to let themselves off the hook.
00:41:10
Speaker
So, you know, when they do start acting shitty, they'll turn on and say, but I told you I was like this.
00:41:15
Speaker
And men do that an awful lot.
00:41:17
Speaker
Men do that an awful lot.
00:41:18
Speaker
But I think that women in friendships do that too.
00:41:20
Speaker
So like, again, a lot of like a lot of these flaws are not gender specific.
00:41:24
Speaker
And I think that we do have to be a little bit more careful with women.
00:41:27
Speaker
Because again, I think women are also are uniquely more empathetic to other women.
00:41:32
Speaker
because we understand what it's like to be women and we feel a lot more empathy.
00:41:35
Speaker
I definitely feel like my empathy has been manipulated a lot more came to my relationships and friends.
00:41:41
Speaker
Like I've heard I've learned a lot of hard lessons in friendships specifically because I was so much more lenient with women than I ever was with men.
00:41:49
Speaker
I always knew with men there was like a 1% chance it could wind up really bad for me.
00:41:53
Speaker
So I always like walked out before shit got too bad.
00:41:56
Speaker
Again, I'm very different in this way.
00:41:57
Speaker
Maybe all women aren't like this.
00:41:58
Speaker
But especially with women, I had a blind spot.
00:42:01
Speaker
And I think it's very important to recognize when you have that blind spot.
00:42:04
Speaker
where you're more likely to be taken for a ride, more likely to feel empathetic because the other person is a woman.
00:42:09
Speaker
And women can be in this way, like, especially in friendships, like you can feel just as neglected because with this friendship, it was so one-sided.
00:42:16
Speaker
Like I was expected to do all the emotional labor and like that person did not want to be on a phone with me listening to anything that I was going through.
00:42:23
Speaker
And like, that was the only way I could continue having this friendship.
00:42:25
Speaker
Like I even noticed in phone calls with her, like she would drift off and not be focused on the conversation unless I could bring it back to her in some way.
00:42:32
Speaker
So there's like a selfishness that comes with also, you know what?
00:42:36
Speaker
I don't know if you know the actress Jemima Kirk, like there was many years ago, somebody had like posted something on her Instagram stories.
00:42:41
Speaker
And she was like, what should I do?
00:42:42
Speaker
Like, I feel like I don't look that good.
00:42:43
Speaker
And I feel like, what do you how do you what advice do you have for people with low self esteem?
00:42:47
Speaker
And she's like, I think you think too much about yourself.
00:42:51
Speaker
and I think it's so true I think a lot of people with this with low self-esteem like they're very self-centered in a strange way they're very obsessed with how other people perceive them to the extent that they can't be good friends to other people you know what I mean because their entire identity is woe is me I have low self-esteem I can't be as beautiful as you I can't be as rich or smart or talented as you and initially it sounds like self-deprecating and you're going to be in this like apology tour of like
00:43:17
Speaker
no, but you're beautiful.
00:43:19
Speaker
And like, once you go in that position of being like, no way, you're so hot.
00:43:23
Speaker
What do you mean?
00:43:24
Speaker
Just recognize that's going to flip on you.
00:43:27
Speaker
Because right now it's I'm sucking off your sympathy.
00:43:29
Speaker
And also I've realized it's a bad idea to be friends with people who want you to be sympathetic towards them all the time.
00:43:35
Speaker
You know, it's not an equal friendship.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah, you can't have an equal friendship.
00:43:39
Speaker
You can't have an equal friendship with someone who wants you to feel sorry for them.
00:43:41
Speaker
And when you stop feeling sorry for them, and you're like, you know what, I've started to realize this person has a pattern of bad relationships can't maintain friends is constantly blowing up at people.
00:43:50
Speaker
And then when you have boundary with them, or when you call them out and their shit, they this is what I mean, but emotionally mature people, they get defensive.
00:43:57
Speaker
And then suddenly all that bullshit they told you about how insecure they were and how their low self-esteem is all that shit that they drag into conversation with you being like, you took advantage of me and you violated my boundaries and you knew I had low self-esteem and you should have had the boundaries for me.
00:44:14
Speaker
You know, you should have made those boundaries for me.
00:44:16
Speaker
You should have recognized for my tone.
00:44:18
Speaker
I didn't want to do that.
00:44:18
Speaker
It's like, no, you have an obligation to tell people what you like.
00:44:21
Speaker
And this I'm saying women need to start being stronger about saying no.
00:44:25
Speaker
In general, you need to stop expecting other people to read your mind and be like, oh, yeah, you should know based on how my very ambiguous tone that I don't want to do something.
00:44:36
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:44:36
Speaker
Like, if you don't want to go out with your friends, for example, and like a friend is dragging you out and you go, you don't get mad at her the next day.
00:44:42
Speaker
Be like, you should have known for my tone.
00:44:44
Speaker
I don't want to go out.
00:44:44
Speaker
It's your job to enforce boundaries.
00:44:48
Speaker
A lot of people don't want to be disliked.
00:44:49
Speaker
And I think that's why they don't want to have boundaries.
00:44:51
Speaker
They're like, if I have a boundary, I'm going to lose this relationship.
00:44:54
Speaker
This person is going to dislike me.
00:44:55
Speaker
I'm not going to get what I want.
00:44:56
Speaker
What if you start seeing it as I'm having boundaries because I'm going to develop a better relationship with this person.
00:45:01
Speaker
They're going to have more respect for me because I stand up for myself.
00:45:04
Speaker
And I'm going to get what I want, which is maybe I don't want to go out that night.
00:45:07
Speaker
And developing boundaries means you have a better relationship with yourself as well.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:45:13
Speaker
And also you can, you can start small.
00:45:15
Speaker
You can start with, I love you, but no.
00:45:18
Speaker
I love you, but no is like my go-to response with my friends.
00:45:20
Speaker
I love you, but absolutely no.
00:45:21
Speaker
That sounds like not something I want to do.
00:45:23
Speaker
That way they know I still like them.
00:45:24
Speaker
I just don't want to do that.
00:45:26
Speaker
If you're afraid that people will think, oh, they'll think I don't like them because I don't want to go out with them.
00:45:30
Speaker
Nope.
00:45:31
Speaker
I always tell people I love you, but no, today is a day for me with my cats and my books.
00:45:34
Speaker
But tomorrow, next week, that sounds like a good time.
00:45:39
Speaker
You know, if a friend tells me, let's go hiking in Alaska, I'm going to be like, I love you, but absolutely no.
00:45:46
Speaker
I don't want to do that.
00:45:47
Speaker
Let's go on a crew.
00:45:49
Speaker
Nope.
00:45:50
Speaker
Don't want to do that.
00:45:51
Speaker
Learn to say no for small things.
00:45:53
Speaker
Like people have struggled with saying no at like restaurants when they get the wrong order.
00:45:57
Speaker
Like they don't want to send back the wrong order.
00:45:59
Speaker
They don't want to, if somebody made a mistake, they ordered a cappuccino, they got a latte.
00:46:02
Speaker
It's like, Oh, I don't want to make a fuss.
00:46:04
Speaker
Start with small stakes and build your way up.
00:46:06
Speaker
If you're a person who's like, I lack boundaries and this is really affecting my romantic relationships because it's so hard for me to say no to men.
00:46:13
Speaker
Start saying no to low stakes people.
00:46:15
Speaker
Start saying no to people where there's like no chance of anybody getting offended, like at a restaurant or a grocery store.
00:46:20
Speaker
You have to start to learn to say no in general to people.
00:46:24
Speaker
Stop letting people be emotional vampires and taking your time and your life away.
00:46:29
Speaker
You only get this one life.
00:46:30
Speaker
You know, you got like, what, 80 summers, 60 summers, depending on how old you are.
00:46:34
Speaker
You have like 60 summers left.
00:46:35
Speaker
You want to squander that, making concessions for people and apologies for people?
00:46:38
Speaker
No.
00:46:40
Speaker
And also it's a muscle.
00:46:42
Speaker
So emotional maturity is like going to the gym when you develop muscles and your endurance, you practice these things.
00:46:48
Speaker
It's something that is a lifetime process, but it's very rewarding once you get there as well.
00:46:53
Speaker
So yeah, completely agreed, Anna.
00:46:56
Speaker
The next axis is empathy.
00:46:57
Speaker
Now...
00:46:58
Speaker
we know men struggle with this a bit but empathy is about understanding and valuing the feelings and perspectives of others especially if you haven't been through it before and I think that's a common thing that people miss is that people don't seem to want to understand where people are coming from unless they themselves have been through it that's not empathy that's more sympathy or being able to relate to somebody I was just gonna say don't mistake sympathy for empathy
00:47:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:26
Speaker
And a way to develop that is to listen more than you talk, essentially, is to because oftentimes we we often listen in conversations to respond when we're actually listening to what the person is saying.
00:47:37
Speaker
And I think our conversational style has meant that it's almost instant.
00:47:42
Speaker
Right.
00:47:43
Speaker
Somebody is talking now, we're thinking about how we're going to respond to what they're saying.
00:47:47
Speaker
But actually, it's OK to just take it in and.
00:47:50
Speaker
you know, take what the person is saying in and for there to be a gap or a pause in between responses.
00:47:56
Speaker
In the meantime, you can validate their feelings as opposed to thinking about how you're going to respond or somehow making what they've said about you as well.
00:48:04
Speaker
And also, I think that reading really good fiction or emotionally rich stories.
00:48:10
Speaker
So I'm starting to read The Lord of the Rings, like the actual books,
00:48:15
Speaker
It's actually a really good way of developing different perspectives because the movies give you quite a, how do I say it?
00:48:22
Speaker
They give you quite a definitive outcome, but actually Tolkien, I'm not saying you should all read Tolkien, by the way, because the books are really thick.
00:48:30
Speaker
But Tolkien developed a legendarian, basically, and there are so many axes to the characters.
00:48:38
Speaker
If you read the backstory of most of the characters involved, it just gives you a different perspective.
00:48:44
Speaker
Even Sauron, for example, he wasn't always this evil malevolent force in Middle-earth.
00:48:50
Speaker
He was actually a good...
00:48:52
Speaker
person until he fell so it's just giving you that different perspective and also not thinking in a dichotomous way as well I think given the fact that we are being fed so much information on social media is very easy and tempting to put things into black or white either good or bad like this person is either good or they're cancelled and that's it like we don't give people grace no nuance Nelly it's just like binary thinking
00:49:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:20
Speaker
And I think that also, I think emotionally mature people, they understand nuance as well.
00:49:25
Speaker
They understand that people are complex.
00:49:28
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:28
Speaker
And I think that that becomes really important when you make connections with people.
00:49:33
Speaker
And when you're listening to the way that they speak about their own lives, it's very... One of the things I have to say, like early on in the podcast, when I should listen to the three of you, I always picked up on you the most because I noticed that you listened a lot.
00:49:45
Speaker
And like what I've recognized about people who are good listeners is they always have something insightful to say.
00:49:49
Speaker
And because they're able to draw the room in more effortlessly, because people wait to hear what they have to say.
00:49:55
Speaker
Because like your words have meaning and value.
00:49:58
Speaker
I think it's really important for people to recognize that when you spend more time listening than speaking, you learn so much about other people.
00:50:05
Speaker
You learn so much about what's important to them.
00:50:07
Speaker
And I mean, we said this even with men, right?
00:50:08
Speaker
Like on dates, like spend more time listening and talking.
00:50:11
Speaker
Yes, because they hang themselves.
00:50:13
Speaker
They will hang themselves unprovoked.
00:50:15
Speaker
You don't have to go with the Spanish Inquisition.
00:50:18
Speaker
The best way for a man to cut himself out of the running or to reveal about himself, let him talk.
00:50:24
Speaker
Just let him talk and just listen.
Listening & Communication in Dating
00:50:26
Speaker
Exactly.
00:50:27
Speaker
And usually like a lot of men have told me in first dates and stuff that I'm very terrifying.
00:50:30
Speaker
And I'm like, good.
00:50:32
Speaker
Cause I was just listening.
00:50:34
Speaker
The funny thing is I do it in the most neutral way.
00:50:36
Speaker
I've had that with men as well.
00:50:37
Speaker
I've had that with men as well.
00:50:39
Speaker
They'll say like, Oh my gosh, I feel so.
00:50:40
Speaker
Cause I remember I was on a shift with a guy.
00:50:42
Speaker
We were doing a night shift and he somehow, and we just met basically.
00:50:47
Speaker
And by the end of the shift, 12 hours, he basically told me all about his life and how he cheated on his wife and how he stringed along his girlfriend and
00:50:54
Speaker
um he wanted to get married and he didn't but he didn't want to tell her and then at the end he was like I feel so exposed like I didn't do anything I just sat there and listened and you just spilled your guts like I literally didn't do anything and the crazy part is like they always try to flip it on you in some way where it's like I've had that with people as well where people are like oh you came off so intimidating I was so scared of you when you when you were first around and I was like I said nothing though
00:51:17
Speaker
I said nothing.
00:51:17
Speaker
All I did was look.
00:51:19
Speaker
I was intentionally listening to everything you were saying.
00:51:21
Speaker
I was definitely scrutinizing everything in my brain, but I didn't really say.
00:51:25
Speaker
And the funny thing is they're like, oh, I thought you didn't like me when you first met me.
00:51:28
Speaker
And I was like, I always have to point out to them.
00:51:29
Speaker
I'm like, I just met you.
00:51:32
Speaker
I don't know you.
00:51:33
Speaker
Why would I hate you?
00:51:34
Speaker
That would be ridiculous.
00:51:35
Speaker
Can you imagine how insane it is that I determined from a course of 30 minutes that I hate your guts?
00:51:40
Speaker
Unless you're like skinning puppies and participating in an ethnic cleansing.
00:51:45
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean?
00:51:46
Speaker
I'm not going to have a strong opinion on you.
00:51:48
Speaker
Like, I don't even like you.
00:51:49
Speaker
I don't know that I hate you.
00:51:51
Speaker
Like the idea of like extremes, right?
00:51:53
Speaker
Like either you love me a lot or you hate me.
00:51:56
Speaker
Like extremely binary thinking when you meet a stranger as well.
00:51:59
Speaker
Like, are they appropriate with a stranger?
00:52:02
Speaker
Like when you're in a first date, you are strangers to each other.
00:52:04
Speaker
Anybody who's like, oh, I think you don't like me based on what did you say that would make me not like you?
00:52:09
Speaker
Are you aware of what you said that made... Exactly.
00:52:13
Speaker
And also, are you telling on yourself as well?
00:52:16
Speaker
Are you thinking that if you reveal yourself that I won't like you?
00:52:21
Speaker
Is that a tell?
00:52:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:23
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:23
Speaker
I'm really friendly.
00:52:24
Speaker
I'm not even like a person who comes across as a...
00:52:29
Speaker
No, you know what?
00:52:29
Speaker
Actually, that's a lie.
00:52:30
Speaker
I'm scary.
00:52:30
Speaker
I get it.
00:52:32
Speaker
I was like, no, what am I saying?
00:52:33
Speaker
What am I saying?
00:52:34
Speaker
That's bullshit.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm a scary person.
00:52:36
Speaker
I get it.
00:52:37
Speaker
I get it.
00:52:37
Speaker
I just have a low threshold for... I'm old.
00:52:40
Speaker
Okay, guys, I have a low threshold for this shit.
00:52:42
Speaker
The older you get, it's so true.
00:52:45
Speaker
As the years go on, the days may be long, the years are short.
00:52:49
Speaker
And I realize with every fleeting year, I'm like, oh my God, I don't want to waste a second spending time, spending even an hour with a person I can't stand.
00:52:56
Speaker
And I think it's very hard for me to hide when I dislike someone.
00:52:59
Speaker
But truth be told, like, I never dislike person from me, dislike anyone from meeting them from the first time.
00:53:04
Speaker
So anybody who's coming at you with that energy of like, I thought you disliked me.
00:53:07
Speaker
It's like, all I was doing was listening.
00:53:08
Speaker
I thought you wanted an active audience.
00:53:10
Speaker
But a lot of them, I think they do feel exposed because they realize they told you too much.
00:53:14
Speaker
And the funny part is it can be so easily mitigated by just asking your date questions.
00:53:19
Speaker
They would have known so much more about me had they matched my energy and had they asked meaningful questions about me.
00:53:25
Speaker
Like I asked them so many questions.
00:53:27
Speaker
It's like I'm a journalist and I'm interviewing a subject.
00:53:29
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:53:30
Speaker
Like, I don't feel like it's an equal thing.
00:53:32
Speaker
Like, I feel like they're on my talk show or something.
00:53:36
Speaker
It's like, and now back to you, even though it's been about you for the last 45 minutes, like you have to watch what men say.
00:53:41
Speaker
But I think also, when you pay attention to what people say in general, you'll learn a lot about them.
00:53:46
Speaker
And I like the people I respect the most are people I've noticed who listen a lot.
00:53:50
Speaker
And then when they do have something to say, it's always so insightful.
00:53:52
Speaker
And I have to say Savannah, that was one of the things I noticed about you in the earlier podcast when I listened to it.
00:53:57
Speaker
I was like, I just got so excited when you would say things because also you were a history nerd like I was.
00:54:01
Speaker
So I was like, oh my God, yes, history is going to come into play.
00:54:04
Speaker
And
00:54:05
Speaker
I do think that also I will say it's a cultural thing.
00:54:07
Speaker
American culture in general is just like very chatty.
00:54:11
Speaker
They love to talk.
00:54:13
Speaker
I mean, I love to talk too, but I do think I'm like an anomaly in my culture.
00:54:16
Speaker
Like Americans love to talk.
00:54:18
Speaker
They love to chat.
00:54:19
Speaker
They love to chat.
00:54:20
Speaker
And I used to really struggle with that when people were like, Savannah, talk more.
00:54:23
Speaker
I'm like, in England, you sort of just say what you need to say and then you shut up.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:29
Speaker
It's not really polite to just labor the point.
00:54:31
Speaker
And people who do labor the point, they end up being like that annoying person who doesn't shut up.
00:54:36
Speaker
I think British culture tends to be quite to the point and direct.
00:54:40
Speaker
I used to get this like a lot when I was a kid from people, because again, I grew up in a culture where women's voices are not heard
Accountability & Negotiating Relationship Roles
00:54:46
Speaker
that much.
00:54:46
Speaker
So if you're a woman that talks even an ordinary amount, they're like, oh my God, she's a mouthy bitches and she just talks too much.
00:54:51
Speaker
So I got to talk too much shit a lot, but my father and my parents in general, like never made me feel bad about being chatty.
00:54:57
Speaker
They were like,
00:54:57
Speaker
Well, you're curious about other people.
00:54:59
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:54:59
Speaker
So like, I don't shy away from it now.
00:55:02
Speaker
I'm like, oh yeah, I am chatty.
00:55:03
Speaker
But I also do think I have something valuable to say.
00:55:06
Speaker
It's not like I'm talking smack.
00:55:07
Speaker
And if somebody is going to be like, oh, you talk a lot, I'm going to be like, and you don't have anything meaningful to say.
00:55:12
Speaker
What's worse?
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:14
Speaker
I may talk law, but I think I speak sense.
00:55:17
Speaker
I stand by what I say and I speak with conviction.
00:55:19
Speaker
That's a lot more than a lot of women in my country are allowed to have.
00:55:22
Speaker
So I wield that privilege with might.
00:55:25
Speaker
And I think it's like, yeah, I think it's important to recognize that there are certain cultures in which just being an outspoken woman is considered being a very talkative and like, oh, how dare she overstep?
00:55:36
Speaker
Doesn't she know she needs to be silent?
00:55:37
Speaker
And it's like...
00:55:39
Speaker
Try to silence me.
00:55:40
Speaker
Come at me.
00:55:41
Speaker
Let's see.
00:55:43
Speaker
Come at me.
00:55:43
Speaker
Let's see.
00:55:46
Speaker
Not a lot of people can beat me in a verbal smackdowns.
00:55:48
Speaker
I'm pretty, pretty, I have pretty good self-confidence when it comes to that.
00:55:52
Speaker
I'm like, you probably cannot beat me in a battle of words.
00:55:56
Speaker
So my whole profession is using words, making words.
00:56:00
Speaker
So I don't think that's going to be likely that they can cut me down to size on that one.
00:56:04
Speaker
But it's one thing I pay attention to.
00:56:06
Speaker
Because if a man comes and tells me, oh, you talk a lot, I got this a lot, like, oh, you're opinionated.
00:56:11
Speaker
Okay, should I have no opinions?
00:56:15
Speaker
Again, telling on themselves.
00:56:16
Speaker
So the next one is accountability.
00:56:19
Speaker
We've spoken about it quite a bit in this episode, but recognizing it in yourself is that it's not the same as taking responsibility.
00:56:26
Speaker
It's not that at all.
00:56:27
Speaker
Think of accountability as almost like building your armor, right?
00:56:31
Speaker
So you know your weak points, you know where things have gotten to you in the past, where perhaps there's been...
00:56:40
Speaker
a mini death by a thousand cuts accountability choosing to make different choices is like your armor against future attacks and protection and accountability for a man also is really important so when he makes a mistake does he sincerely apologize isn't an apology isn't i'm sorry you feel that way or it's does he actually own his shit does he own what he did
00:57:04
Speaker
And does he also reflect on his own role in his life, in your relationship, in your interpersonal conflicts as well?
00:57:12
Speaker
Because to have a healthy relationship, you both need to be able to be accountable, not only to each other, but also to yourselves as well.
00:57:22
Speaker
And you'll very quickly become frustrated if you're in a relationship with somebody who lacks accountability.
00:57:27
Speaker
That is just the worst thing.
00:57:30
Speaker
The other thing about like when you do have issues, is it an attack for him?
00:57:34
Speaker
Is it like, oh, I need to win the problem versus like resolving things, right?
00:57:38
Speaker
Like, is it us against the problem?
00:57:39
Speaker
Or is it me against you?
00:57:40
Speaker
You need to watch out for you're either with me or against me.
00:57:44
Speaker
Is he George Bushing all over the place?
00:57:46
Speaker
George Bushing.
00:57:47
Speaker
You need to be with someone who is a proactive problem solver, but is also collaborative in their problem solving.
00:57:52
Speaker
It's how can we work on this together?
00:57:54
Speaker
How can I make you more comfortable with what's needed to be done?
00:57:57
Speaker
Can I take accountability for something that I've been overlooking?
00:58:01
Speaker
Again, I think we don't expect perfection from men because I have to say that because we've grown up in patriarchy, women and men are just as capable of internalizing misogyny in strange ways.
00:58:11
Speaker
And it's really important that you have partners who can pick that up
00:58:16
Speaker
And can point it out and be like, hey, I think this might not be helping you.
00:58:20
Speaker
And it's important for you to be able to do that with your partner as well and for them to not get defensive.
00:58:23
Speaker
Because I think that even the most well-intentioned man, he's going to have those flaws because we're all cooked the same soup.
00:58:32
Speaker
So there's really no escaping.
00:58:35
Speaker
If you're looking for perfection in a man and a man that's been untouched by patriarchy, he would have to be raised on another planet.
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
To be fair, same with women as well.
00:58:43
Speaker
Like we also internalize patriarchy.
00:58:46
Speaker
Women, we also have our own issues as well.
00:58:48
Speaker
And that's not...
00:58:50
Speaker
saying that we're as bad as men or that bollocks, but it's important to also be aware of our own blind spots.
00:58:55
Speaker
And like Diana said, not solely putting the blame at the feet of the patriarchy, because especially if you are a woman in a Western country, you have choices that a lot of other women don't have.
00:59:08
Speaker
So I think we need to do right by the women who've come before us and the women around the world who still don't have the ability to walk away from their piece of shit guy to do better.
00:59:20
Speaker
Yeah, and it's really important that you don't internalize other people's problems into your own relationship.
00:59:24
Speaker
Like a lot of women, they'll put on weight and stuff and then they'll have like women around them say, if you don't lose the weight, he's going to dump you.
00:59:29
Speaker
And it's not to say that this doesn't happen.
00:59:32
Speaker
But if you have a partner that you can definitively say that, oh, this is not, he's attracted to me no matter what.
00:59:37
Speaker
Like he thinks I'm hot even when I'm,
00:59:39
Speaker
fucking ugly.
00:59:40
Speaker
And this is not an issue.
00:59:42
Speaker
I had a friend who had this situation once where her partner was like, obviously very attracted to her.
00:59:46
Speaker
But she had all these fears because all of these like family members and friends were like, Oh, if you don't lose the baby weight, he's gonna dump you.
00:59:51
Speaker
And it affected her relationship because she was so paranoid that he would leave.
00:59:54
Speaker
And one day he just got fed up.
00:59:55
Speaker
And he said, What the fuck is going on?
00:59:57
Speaker
Why are you being weird?
00:59:58
Speaker
And she was like, because I am afraid you'll leave me for the weight.
01:00:01
Speaker
And he's like, Are you kidding me?
01:00:02
Speaker
He's like, I've never found you hotter, you just had my baby.
01:00:05
Speaker
Why would I?
01:00:06
Speaker
And so like, that was a really reaffirming thing for the relationship when he was like, there's nothing you can do that would make me think you're less hot.
01:00:12
Speaker
So you just like ignore those people around you.
01:00:14
Speaker
Sometimes this is really important to understand that is your ecosystem, your circumstances, your environment supportive of you.
01:00:20
Speaker
If you are around people who have their own internalized misogyny, because like in this situation, it was the women that had that, right?
01:00:25
Speaker
It was the women that had internalized misogyny.
01:00:27
Speaker
And they were like, there's no way that her partner will stay with her if this conventionally attractive woman puts on weight.
01:00:33
Speaker
And she didn't even have this fear.
01:00:34
Speaker
But now all these people have put this fear in her brain.
01:00:37
Speaker
And now she thinks that this is going to happen to her.
01:00:39
Speaker
Right.
01:00:39
Speaker
And you're setting yourself up for failure because you're not actively getting ahead of the problem.
01:00:44
Speaker
Right.
01:00:44
Speaker
And you're not like you need to be sure if your partner is well.
01:00:47
Speaker
Is this the kind of guy who's going to do that?
01:00:48
Speaker
If he is, it's a different issue.
01:00:50
Speaker
Right.
01:00:51
Speaker
But if he's not, you need to stop letting those issues that other people put on you.
01:00:55
Speaker
Like like I always have people be like, oh, you don't want to cook.
01:00:58
Speaker
No guy is going to be into a girl who doesn't cook.
01:01:00
Speaker
No guy is going to be into a person who doesn't clean.
01:01:01
Speaker
I'm like, is he looking for a wife or is he looking for a service?
01:01:04
Speaker
Right.
01:01:05
Speaker
A cook.
01:01:06
Speaker
And I know so many men who, like, my mum didn't cook for years in her marriage and my dad happily did it all.
01:01:12
Speaker
Didn't bother him.
01:01:13
Speaker
So, so yeah, it's just, and you bring a lot more to the table than just knowing how to cook as a wife and as a woman.
01:01:20
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:01:20
Speaker
But they always say, even in my family, they'd be like, my, my uncle does all the dishes in the household.
01:01:24
Speaker
I don't touch a dish because I get my nails done and I don't like to, I'm being so real with you.
01:01:29
Speaker
I don't like, I don't like ruining my, I don't like, I don't like,
01:01:33
Speaker
I don't like ruining my nails.
01:01:34
Speaker
I said, like, one time my mom was like, why don't you take over for him?
01:01:37
Speaker
And I was like, I will if he pays me for the nails.
01:01:39
Speaker
You know what I mean?
01:01:40
Speaker
Because opportunity cost, you know what I mean?
01:01:43
Speaker
Like, I've destroyed money that I've spent washing those dishes that I don't want to do.
01:01:48
Speaker
So if he's willing to pay for my next manicure, then sure, I'll do the nails.
01:01:51
Speaker
My uncle is like, no, I'll just do the dishes.
01:01:53
Speaker
I don't want to pay for her expensive ass manicures.
01:01:55
Speaker
No, thank you.
01:01:56
Speaker
Which is funny because he wound up doing them anyway.
01:01:58
Speaker
But that's what I mean.
01:01:59
Speaker
Like, uh...
01:02:00
Speaker
I'm being silly here, but you know what I mean, right?
01:02:02
Speaker
At the end of the day, it's like, if that's who you are naturally, a guy is not going to be like, you're never going to, you shouldn't be dating a guy who's like, this is a deal breaker.
01:02:11
Speaker
I'm looking for a wife appliance who will service me when I need.
01:02:13
Speaker
You will fuck me when I want.
01:02:14
Speaker
You will cook for me when I need.
01:02:15
Speaker
And you will clean for me when I ask.
01:02:17
Speaker
And it's like,
01:02:18
Speaker
Wrong.
01:02:18
Speaker
You're barking up the wrong vending machine, sir.
01:02:21
Speaker
Go to the other vending machine.
01:02:22
Speaker
I'm not that woman.
Patreon Announcement & Future Content
01:02:23
Speaker
Like, you're not going to get that from me.
01:02:26
Speaker
Why would I go to a Chinese restaurant and demand curry?
01:02:29
Speaker
Exactly.
01:02:31
Speaker
So to finish off, we've got the final one is resilience.
01:02:33
Speaker
So being able to bounce back from challenges without bitterness, blaming or denial.
01:02:38
Speaker
I'll be real, ladies.
01:02:39
Speaker
If you want to do this dating shit with men, you're going to need resilience and bucket loads because...
01:02:44
Speaker
a disappointment is not only guaranteed, but it will be frequent, probably swift, and at times relentless, depending on how you date, right?
01:02:54
Speaker
So being emotionally mature, it also means that you have the resilience and the stamina to withstand that.
01:03:01
Speaker
And don't allow the actions of shitty men or society telling you that you can't get the kind of man that you want.
01:03:08
Speaker
Don't allow that to get you down as well.
01:03:10
Speaker
But you have your standards, you have your frame, and you hold that.
01:03:13
Speaker
And don't let a few bad occasions determine your worth either.
01:03:16
Speaker
Like, if a guy goes to you, it's not because you're ugly.
01:03:19
Speaker
Like, don't internalize these, like, wrong messages from other people's shitty behaviors.
01:03:23
Speaker
A lot of the times, it's not about you.
01:03:25
Speaker
It's not about you.
01:03:26
Speaker
And also, and I mean, it's the nicest possible way.
01:03:28
Speaker
Like, a lot of women think that this guy treated me so badly.
01:03:31
Speaker
Like, I must have done something to deserve it.
01:03:34
Speaker
Like...
01:03:34
Speaker
In the nicest possible way, but you're not that special.
01:03:36
Speaker
Like you don't, you didn't change him.
01:03:38
Speaker
That is who he is.
01:03:40
Speaker
And as I always say, if you have, and as the, are we dating the same guy groups have demonstrated quite nicely.
01:03:47
Speaker
If a guy has treated you badly, show me all the other women who's been with, and I will tell you, and there will be a pile of bodies and a trail of destruction.
01:03:55
Speaker
It's not just you.
01:03:56
Speaker
Exactly.
01:03:57
Speaker
It's really important that we don't internalize other people's.
01:04:00
Speaker
And this comes from childhood too.
01:04:01
Speaker
Like this happens when you're a kid.
01:04:03
Speaker
If your parents are mean to you, you're like, oh, it's because I'm a bad kid.
01:04:06
Speaker
I'm not a good daughter.
01:04:07
Speaker
No, it's because your parents are just not good people and they weren't good people before they had you.
01:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, they're flawed as hell.
01:04:14
Speaker
Exactly.
01:04:14
Speaker
So other people's flaws are not an indication of your worth.
01:04:18
Speaker
That's the message we want to leave you with.
01:04:20
Speaker
Exactly.
01:04:20
Speaker
Well said, Diana.
01:04:22
Speaker
So that wraps up.
01:04:23
Speaker
This will be the first in a series of different traits and characteristics that you can develop and also vet for as well in your dating journey.
01:04:31
Speaker
But let us know if you'd like to us to cover anything in particular.
01:04:34
Speaker
I do have one announcement.
01:04:36
Speaker
So we had a or we have a bonus podcast that I'm sure some of you are subscribed to.
01:04:44
Speaker
And due to admin issues, and I won't get into the whole rigmarole now, but we lost access to that Patreon account.
01:04:54
Speaker
So a new Patreon has been set up called the Level Up Lounge that has all the historical bonus information.
01:05:02
Speaker
podcast episodes and we're also looking to do blog posts almost like the FDS forum but in a more controlled environment because fuck credit if I'm honest so definitely please subscribe to that I will drop the link in the show notes below but it will be lovely to see you at the level up lounge there will be blog posts there will be live chats and also the opportunity for you to send in your question or problem and we will read it and answer it in a future
01:05:31
Speaker
episode as well as like the bonus content with patricia and i as well so it'll be really great to see you over at the level up lounge yay but yes that is our episode today thanks so much for listening queens and for all you emotionally immature scrotes out there die mad die mad see you next week