Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Grief, Growth, and the Dead Dad’s Club
39 Plays9 months ago
The Queens get real about loss, legacy, and what it means to navigate life (and the dating world) after losing a father.
Download the FDS Handbook for free here: https://pdfcoffee.com/fds-handbook-v135-pdf-free.html
FDS War Room on the Queen Patreon Tier: https://www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/femdatstrat
Follow us!
Weekly Bonus Content/Merch/Discord on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Website: https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/femdatstrat
@femdatstrat
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thefemaledatingstrategy/
Recommended
Transcript
Exploring Grief and Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:07
Speaker
I am your guest host, Savannah.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Diana.
00:00:11
Speaker
And I'm your guest host, Patricia.
00:00:14
Speaker
And today we all thought that we would do an episode on grief because for those who are unaware, I became a member of the Dead Dads Club in December 2024.
00:00:28
Speaker
And I think I'm the last of the hosts of the four of us to join the awful club that nobody ever wants to be in.
00:00:36
Speaker
A dubious honour.
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, so we thought we would do an episode on grief in terms of, you know, grief illiteracy, you know, so the way we respond to grief and the way society responds to grieving people.
00:00:49
Speaker
And also what this means for our relationships, particularly our relationships with men.
00:00:55
Speaker
And I think what's quite interesting on this podcast is that we all have quite unique experiences.
00:01:00
Speaker
and different relationships with our dads.
00:01:02
Speaker
And I think that has meant that we have also navigated grief and the bereavement process in really different ways.
00:01:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think our relationships with our dads as our relationship with our moms is one of the most defining things
00:01:16
Speaker
relationships we have.
00:01:17
Speaker
Like I know for me, it made a lot of who I am in good ways and in bad ways.
00:01:22
Speaker
But I really connected with doing an episode on this when you suggested it, Savannah, because I do feel that most people, they are suffering from grief illiteracy.
00:01:33
Speaker
And indeed, I think the terminology of a club, even though it's weird, but there's something like reminiscent of the truth about it, because it seems like people, when they do experience loss, their terminology, their ability to understand what it is.
00:01:51
Speaker
And their perspective on life changes in a way that you won't wish on anybody.
00:01:56
Speaker
But when you speak to people after experiencing loss, it is really, really clear who, you know, uses words, intonations, and, you know, intentions that touch you even a little bit.
00:02:09
Speaker
And who doesn't?
Understanding Societal Responses to Grief
00:02:10
Speaker
And it doesn't mean that they are doing that for lack of trying.
00:02:13
Speaker
Like a lot of people would just say, do you want a hug?
00:02:16
Speaker
And it's very stupid, but they just don't know what to say.
00:02:19
Speaker
They just don't know.
00:02:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think back to before my dad passed away, you know, when that Patricia put together some really good points before we started recording about grief.
00:02:31
Speaker
And I was really grief illiterate because I haven't experienced a loss that close to me.
00:02:37
Speaker
So my paternal grandparents, they passed away before I was born.
00:02:40
Speaker
My mum's father passed away.
00:02:43
Speaker
She wasn't close to her dad.
00:02:44
Speaker
And we, I think I maybe met him like once in my entire life when I was a toddler before he passed away.
00:02:49
Speaker
So yeah.
00:02:50
Speaker
I hadn't experienced like your grandparents dying or your great grandparents dying or even an uncle dying until my dad passed away.
00:02:58
Speaker
And it really put into perspective that I was extremely grief illiterate.
00:03:02
Speaker
Like I know a handful of people in my social circle, like friends or acquaintances who'd lost their dad.
00:03:08
Speaker
And I think it's just impossible to even begin to fathom like the loss of
00:03:14
Speaker
involved in that i mean because like logically right you know that technically speaking if everything goes to plan in life in quotation marks that you will live longer than your parents right that's the way it should be in quotation marks a parent shouldn't be burying you you should be burying them but that doesn't take the sting out of losing them especially if you like your parents as well so i always caveat
00:03:35
Speaker
Because I remember shortly after my dad passed away, I was on a grief forum and someone else said like, oh, when my dad died, that was the best day of my life.
00:03:42
Speaker
And I remember thinking, I've got such an opposite experience because it's like the worst day of my life.
00:03:47
Speaker
But it's interesting how different people
Cultural Perspectives on Mourning
00:03:50
Speaker
process the death of their parents.
00:03:51
Speaker
I think that the age that it happens to really affects it as well.
00:03:54
Speaker
Because like at the time when my father passed away, I was like in my teens.
00:03:58
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:03:59
Speaker
And so I was like the only person in my age group who had ever had an experience like that.
00:04:03
Speaker
And like I had to like grow up overnight.
00:04:05
Speaker
I've always felt really different to my peers like in general.
00:04:09
Speaker
But like because of that experience, I felt even more different.
00:04:12
Speaker
Like, I mean, I always felt different for other reasons, you know, like just the way I approach dating, just the way I approach my career.
00:04:17
Speaker
Like I felt like there were lots of aspects of me that just made me feel like an outsider.
00:04:21
Speaker
But in that one specifically, I was like, okay, this is a club I don't want to belong to because this is a space where no one can relate to me.
00:04:28
Speaker
And like, you know, people always think that they're saying like the nice thing, like, or, you know, I even had people coming and saying like, oh, you'll get over it one day.
00:04:34
Speaker
And I'm like, you know what, when your mom dies, I'll remember to say that to you.
00:04:37
Speaker
When your parent passes away, I'll remember to say that back.
00:04:40
Speaker
And like, I was like, you can't even think about how awful that would be to say that to someone and be like, you'll get over it.
00:04:45
Speaker
You know, like that's something you say to like someone when they have a cold, not something you say to someone when they've lost like a really important member of their family.
00:04:52
Speaker
But that's the thing, like at the time when it happened and the reason why it's so appalling that that happened is because everyone around me was like kind of a kid or like in their early 20s too, like they lack the maturity to be able to have that discussion.
00:05:03
Speaker
It's like we're at an age now where we're much older, but like when it happens to you when you're really young, it's like unless you have good adults around you who are willing to actually speak to you in the
00:05:12
Speaker
a certain kind of way.
00:05:13
Speaker
And of course, it's like generational differences, right?
00:05:15
Speaker
Like generationally, people don't know how to talk to you.
00:05:18
Speaker
I also think like coming from a culture that was colonized affects it because so many of our relatives and elders like went through, you know, lots of death in general, like losing their parents, losing their relatives.
00:05:29
Speaker
So it's like they process death very differently from you, you know?
00:05:32
Speaker
So it's just like, you know, part of coming from a colonized culture, part of like coming from a different generation, like when you're that young, you just process it very differently from like when you're a little bit older.
00:05:42
Speaker
I definitely think age also changes the way you experience grief a lot.
00:05:45
Speaker
Definitely.
00:05:45
Speaker
And that sounds like such a lonely experience.
00:05:48
Speaker
I had chills up to the tippy top of my head when you said that very hurtful sentence of you're going to get over it.
00:05:54
Speaker
And I think it's such a blatant example of these kinds of sentences because that teenage person who told that to you
00:06:02
Speaker
He was trying in a very, very twisted way to console you in this like incomprehensible gap between your experience that he cannot fathom and what he was trying to say.
00:06:13
Speaker
And this is the paradox about it because you don't wish on anybody to be part of this dubious club.
00:06:19
Speaker
You don't wish on anybody to experience this terrible pain.
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:22
Speaker
And you dissociate as well.
00:06:24
Speaker
Like, I mean, you know, when the body and stuff was there, like there was this like relative or someone that came up to me.
00:06:29
Speaker
And obviously, you know, sometimes you put on a lot of weight from the grief and stuff.
00:06:32
Speaker
Like you eat differently, your body changes and stuff.
00:06:34
Speaker
And I'd put on some weight and he was like, yeah, you know, maybe now is the time you think about like getting back to the gym and like losing weight and stuff.
00:06:41
Speaker
And like my body, my father's body was like right there.
00:06:43
Speaker
And I remember laughing because I was just like, it was like so random.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
Like, I didn't know how to respond except to laugh.
00:06:50
Speaker
And people thought I'd gone insane, right?
00:06:52
Speaker
Because I hadn't cried like the entire funeral or anything.
00:06:54
Speaker
Like I went like totally numb.
00:06:55
Speaker
Because I obviously I couldn't like process the shock of losing my dad.
00:06:58
Speaker
So I wasn't crying at all.
00:07:00
Speaker
But then when he said that, like in my mind, I was like, what possessed you?
00:07:03
Speaker
And it just, it made me laugh so hard.
00:07:05
Speaker
Like he didn't mean to be funny.
00:07:07
Speaker
But they all thought like I was like, I'd gone insane.
00:07:09
Speaker
Right?
00:07:10
Speaker
Because I was like laughing so hard at this guy.
00:07:12
Speaker
And I was laughing a lot.
00:07:12
Speaker
So people thought, oh, yeah, she's lost it.
00:07:14
Speaker
But I think it was also just because I was like, I don't feel safe around these strangers.
00:07:17
Speaker
Like as a kid, like these are adults I don't feel safe around, like being so vulnerable, you know, like I waited until I went back to college.
00:07:24
Speaker
And like, that was when I allowed myself to cry.
00:07:27
Speaker
Wow.
00:07:28
Speaker
See, I mean, it's just it's so different.
00:07:29
Speaker
It depends.
00:07:30
Speaker
It's like it's never an easy topic to discuss anyway.
00:07:34
Speaker
But like, you know, I think partially because I was so young when it happened, like most of my life now at this point has been actually maybe a third of my life has been now without my dad.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
I'm sorry about that.
00:07:46
Speaker
And to be honest, that's something that we don't really acknowledge because if you look at averages, right, a lot of people, you know, they start to lose their parents maybe in their 40s, 50s, sometimes 60s.
00:07:58
Speaker
So losing your dad as a teenager in your 20s and 30s is really young to lose a parent.
00:08:04
Speaker
And, you know, I suppose in a way you will always be too young to lose your parents.
00:08:07
Speaker
I think even if my dad lived to 100 and I was
00:08:11
Speaker
in my 70s or late 60s, I would still say he went too soon.
00:08:14
Speaker
But if you're bereaved as a teenager or in your 20s and 30s, statistically, that is, you know, that's a young age to lose a parent, you know, someone is as impactful as a parent in your life as well.
00:08:27
Speaker
And I think
Embracing Grief Literacy
00:08:28
Speaker
also with grief is that the cultural difference is absolutely massive, I think as well.
00:08:33
Speaker
I am of Nigerian heritage.
00:08:35
Speaker
were brought up in the UK.
00:08:37
Speaker
And after my dad's passing, we started to see just the differences in the way they approach grief.
00:08:43
Speaker
So in Nigeria, when someone passes away, it can almost feel like a celebration of life.
00:08:49
Speaker
That's how they see it.
00:08:50
Speaker
So funerals are very, almost like a party.
00:08:53
Speaker
They're more of a celebration than a mournful event.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I remember my siblings and I were saying, well, we're not in the mood to celebrate.
00:08:59
Speaker
Like, we've just lost our dad.
00:09:01
Speaker
He was only 65.
00:09:03
Speaker
I'm not in the mood to celebrate anything at this point.
00:09:05
Speaker
At least, you know, whilst it's still raw.
00:09:07
Speaker
And I remember a couple of people who came to my dad's funeral because we buried him in the UK.
00:09:12
Speaker
And they were like, oh, the funeral, it wasn't how we expected.
00:09:16
Speaker
We expected to be happier.
00:09:17
Speaker
I was like, fuck off.
00:09:18
Speaker
Like, you know, first of all, like funerals in the UK are fucking expensive.
00:09:22
Speaker
They are so expensive.
00:09:24
Speaker
You know, you basically get scammed in life and scammed in death, number one.
00:09:28
Speaker
And number two, it's really inappropriate to say to a grieving family, like how you think that they should have, you know, put on a funeral for their loved one.
00:09:37
Speaker
It's deeply inappropriate.
00:09:39
Speaker
But it's also that cultural difference, because if we had done the funeral in Nigeria, it would have looked very, very different.
00:09:45
Speaker
I'm not sure if I would have preferred it either.
00:09:47
Speaker
That's so interesting.
00:09:49
Speaker
I mean, I was exposed to it a little bit through Dia de Muertos and how, I don't know if you know this Mexican holiday.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, Dia de los Muertos.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, fortunate to have a very good Mexican friend.
00:10:01
Speaker
And shortly after my dad passed away a few years ago, she introduced me to this holiday.
00:10:06
Speaker
And that was so transformative for me because it's a way to experience death in a totally different context.
00:10:14
Speaker
I won't elaborate on the holiday like probably people who know it do.
00:10:18
Speaker
But what I mean to say, connecting to what you're saying, Savannah, and also to you, Diana, that it's very dependent on context.
00:10:24
Speaker
And also there's a generational thing there.
00:10:27
Speaker
My parents came from the USSR, so I think they're tougher generally.
00:10:32
Speaker
And part of what made my dad who he is is that he went through a lot of really, really disturbing shit in his childhood.
00:10:40
Speaker
But this is the thing.
00:10:42
Speaker
My dad was always really emotional when it was somebody's death day.
00:10:47
Speaker
So he was like, today is the day that so-and-so died.
00:10:52
Speaker
And usually he would drive me places.
00:10:54
Speaker
So he would be telling me and I'm sitting in the car looking at him.
00:10:57
Speaker
I'm like, okay, dad.
00:10:58
Speaker
You know, I didn't know what to do with this information.
00:11:00
Speaker
It looked at me like, why are you so sad?
00:11:03
Speaker
Because this is the day of somebody's death.
00:11:06
Speaker
And it's just so ironic that he's the first person that I lost.
00:11:10
Speaker
And now I really, really feel it like, you know, on the day of his passing or on his birthday, because he would get so sad.
00:11:18
Speaker
Today is so-and-so's birthday.
00:11:20
Speaker
She would have been this and this much years today.
00:11:24
Speaker
Like, I remember the first year after my dad died, I was actually on a trip in Thailand and I got a notification on my phone and
00:11:32
Speaker
And I saw my dad's picture.
00:11:33
Speaker
I almost fell out of bed.
00:11:35
Speaker
It was like a morning.
00:11:37
Speaker
And it was Facebook notifying me that today is my dad's, would have been my dad's 80th birthday.
00:11:43
Speaker
I was like, fuck, I was distraught.
00:11:46
Speaker
I felt like, I don't know, the universe came and slapped me like on the face.
00:11:51
Speaker
Like, it was just, I felt it in that moment.
00:11:55
Speaker
And this ties incredibly well to grief illiteracy because his sad face for all of those people that he knew and loved on their birthday and how old they would have been, I never got why he was sad about that.
00:12:10
Speaker
And yeah, you don't know it till you know it.
00:12:12
Speaker
Unfortunately, you wish you wouldn't know it.
00:12:14
Speaker
But yeah, I can't even imagine like how it is to lose your dad at such a young age, like in your teens.
00:12:20
Speaker
I mean, there are like huge periods of my early 20s and late teens.
00:12:24
Speaker
Like I have no recollection of what happened at all.
00:12:26
Speaker
Like I don't remember that period of my life really well.
00:12:28
Speaker
Like it's like a big black spot now.
00:12:31
Speaker
And like, that's just the way sometimes grief works.
00:12:32
Speaker
You know, you just don't have memories around those things.
00:12:34
Speaker
Like I straight up don't remember some of those things at all.
00:12:36
Speaker
Like totally, completely blank.
00:12:38
Speaker
No idea what happened.
00:12:39
Speaker
And like, I remember I was back for like 10 days because I was living in another country at that point.
00:12:43
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I'm back for a little bit.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I don't remember the whole period at all.
00:12:47
Speaker
Because I was like dissociating so badly.
00:12:50
Speaker
Like all of these really positive memories were actually flooding for me.
00:12:53
Speaker
It wasn't like I wasn't in a miserable state like during the funeral.
00:12:56
Speaker
I was just remembering like this really funny incident that like happened with my dad, like where we got into a fight.
00:13:02
Speaker
It was like about my driver's license or something.
00:13:03
Speaker
Like I needed a car to go to my driver's class and like he forgot about it.
00:13:06
Speaker
And I remember like he was getting like a massage or something.
00:13:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:09
Speaker
And like I was like stomping my feet.
00:13:10
Speaker
I was so angry with him because he didn't give me the car keys or whatever.
00:13:14
Speaker
And like his masseuse was deaf.
00:13:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:17
Speaker
And like this guy, he turns to my dad and he's like, she's very angry, isn't she?
00:13:21
Speaker
And my dad was like, look at you.
00:13:23
Speaker
You're so loud.
00:13:23
Speaker
Even the deaf can hear you.
00:13:25
Speaker
And I don't know why that thought popped into my mind when I was at the funeral.
00:13:28
Speaker
And I started laughing so hard, like in the middle of the funeral.
00:13:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:32
Speaker
Because I just had this, like, I was just getting flooded with all these really funny, positive memories about him.
00:13:38
Speaker
That sounds like an iconic moment.
00:13:39
Speaker
And also when you were telling about the other incident when you were laughing, like there's something so absurd about death.
00:13:47
Speaker
Like the finality of it.
00:13:48
Speaker
There was a person.
00:13:49
Speaker
He was a huge part of your life.
00:13:51
Speaker
And they're just gone.
00:13:53
Speaker
They don't exist anymore.
00:13:55
Speaker
That's so fucking weird.
00:13:57
Speaker
I think like if you don't have the mental steps to reach up there and understand what that means, I think...
00:14:04
Speaker
Like the absurdity really does invite laughter in a way, like a nihilistic approach.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah, they're such a final tone.
00:14:13
Speaker
I think for me, I can accept it as an event, like, oh, that person died or that person's passed away.
00:14:19
Speaker
But it's just the finality of it.
00:14:20
Speaker
Like, I remember at my dad's funeral after we had done the committal, so they'd lowered him into the ground.
00:14:28
Speaker
And my siblings and I were just sort of like stood around thinking, are we just going to leave him there?
00:14:31
Speaker
Like, is that it?
00:14:32
Speaker
Like, is that it?
00:14:34
Speaker
Like, are we just going to leave him there?
00:14:37
Speaker
because you just can't really wrap your head around that.
00:14:40
Speaker
And yeah, we're gonna leave him there.
00:14:42
Speaker
And that's where he's gonna stay forever.
00:14:43
Speaker
Like he's not coming back.
00:14:45
Speaker
So yeah, I completely get that.
00:14:47
Speaker
I mean, like, that's what you remember of them.
00:14:49
Speaker
I think you don't remember them like the way they were when they were weak and stuff.
00:14:52
Speaker
You remember them when they were in their prime of health.
00:14:55
Speaker
And like, my dad was a very funny guy.
00:14:56
Speaker
And like, you know, those were the memories that I was left with when he passed.
00:15:01
Speaker
And like, that's the thing.
00:15:02
Speaker
I mean, of course, like there were moments, I think, you know, later on where like moments of grief of things like that I remember that I was like, and you always get hit with that, right?
00:15:09
Speaker
When you realize, oh, he might not be there for your wedding.
00:15:11
Speaker
Or when you see like little girls with their fathers and stuff.
00:15:14
Speaker
I was like, yeah, this is hard.
00:15:15
Speaker
You know, it's not easy to face that and to see that and to see like my friends get married and like their dads are around and stuff.
00:15:21
Speaker
And it's...
00:15:22
Speaker
And I remember my therapist, she said something because like she lost her dad, like I think five days before mine.
00:15:28
Speaker
So we're sort of going through the grieving together in quite similar circumstances as well.
00:15:33
Speaker
And the way she put it, she was like, you know, it's like your dad is everywhere, but he's nowhere at the same time.
00:15:40
Speaker
And I find that just that particular framing of death, it's actually been quite helpful because...
00:15:47
Speaker
in the sense that my dad is everywhere and in the sense that like he's in my mind, he's in my heart, he's in, I guess, my DNA.
00:15:55
Speaker
He's even in my flat because he helped me out with my deposit.
00:15:58
Speaker
All my intellectual interests in life that come from my dad, you know, but at the same time, it also feels like he's just not there, you know?
00:16:08
Speaker
And I think that that is, is it oxymoron?
00:16:11
Speaker
Is that the term?
00:16:12
Speaker
A weird juxtaposition slash oxymoron.
00:16:15
Speaker
But yeah.
00:16:15
Speaker
It's just something that's also remained with me, like that they're everywhere, but they're nowhere at the same time.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's a beautiful way to put it.
00:16:22
Speaker
Indeed, it's an oxymoron.
00:16:24
Speaker
I think that's a very, very consoling way to look at it.
00:16:28
Speaker
It also is reminding me of how my brother spoke of the tombstone.
00:16:33
Speaker
Like it's not where he is just marking something.
00:16:37
Speaker
And I'll, of course, very much relate to what you're saying, Savannah, that my father embedded his values into me and he pushed me to be who I am.
00:16:46
Speaker
And also I'm made of his, I'm made of his flesh.
00:16:50
Speaker
So yeah, I think that's a very, very deep way to look at it.
00:16:53
Speaker
Like all encompassing, but also not at all.
00:16:56
Speaker
Because you just wish you could call him up or see his face.
00:17:00
Speaker
You can't.
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:02
Speaker
And this is why when people say, oh, he's in a better place now, like, again, I give people grace because the people who say that often haven't usually lost someone close.
00:17:12
Speaker
I give people grace.
00:17:13
Speaker
But it also misses the point of why I'm sad.
00:17:16
Speaker
And the way I put it is, you know, let's say my dad was on a cruise in the Caribbean, right, on the best cruise ship on, let's say, the icon of the seas, right?
00:17:26
Speaker
If he was on a month long cruise, right?
00:17:28
Speaker
And I said,
00:17:29
Speaker
I really miss my dad, right?
00:17:30
Speaker
You know, people would understand what I'm talking about.
00:17:32
Speaker
They wouldn't say, oh yeah, but he's on a cruise.
00:17:35
Speaker
Like he's having the time of his life.
00:17:36
Speaker
But you know, when I say I miss my dad, it's more, I miss the fact that he isn't with me.
00:17:42
Speaker
The fact that he's in a better place, that's all well and good and I'm happy for him.
00:17:46
Speaker
But at the same time, it's like, I want him here, you know, with me.
00:17:51
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:17:52
Speaker
And it's the absence that I'm missing.
00:17:54
Speaker
And the possibility of him being in paradise or in a better place or in heaven, it doesn't take away from the absence.
00:18:02
Speaker
No, it doesn't.
00:18:03
Speaker
And ultimately, I think after, well, for you, it's very fresh, Savannah.
00:18:08
Speaker
But in my experience, ultimately, after the grieving process is, you know, come to some kind of, at some point, most of what remains is just,
00:18:18
Speaker
the longing, the missing the person, just wishing you could talk to him, just wishing, no, you just missed them in happy moments and sad moments and moments where you would have called them.
00:18:28
Speaker
They're just not there and you miss them.
00:18:30
Speaker
That's the deepest, like that's the reality of it.
00:18:32
Speaker
And I guess this is where I'm going to go in with my Rabbi Spiel that dear listener, what we're trying to convey is that the gravity of grief
00:18:43
Speaker
It's so deep.
00:18:45
Speaker
It's like deeper than the Grand Canyon.
00:18:48
Speaker
And if you haven't experienced it, we're happy for you.
00:18:51
Speaker
We are.
00:18:51
Speaker
We're glad that you didn't get to experience that.
00:18:55
Speaker
Life is finite.
00:18:56
Speaker
We will probably all experience it at some point or another, or maybe, I don't know.
00:19:00
Speaker
I don't want to say something very morbid, but like the only way to not experience it is to go away and leave everybody that you love behind grieving for you, right?
00:19:07
Speaker
So basically what I'm trying to say is...
Personal Reflections on Loss
00:19:11
Speaker
Talking about grief, talking about death, old age, sickness is not easy.
00:19:17
Speaker
It's not something that is easy.
00:19:19
Speaker
It's not a kind of light subject that can be glossed over or talked about in a light way.
00:19:24
Speaker
And a part of the reason why we're not good at talking about it, I think, is that it's also not very much, not portrayed in media very much because it's depressing.
00:19:33
Speaker
Like maybe today, in today's like media environment, maybe there are
00:19:38
Speaker
some things that touch it.
00:19:39
Speaker
But if I'm thinking about the TV that I used to, or the movies that I used to watch growing up, it was absent from there.
00:19:45
Speaker
There is no like guide to how to talk about it.
00:19:49
Speaker
So that's why people say stupid things.
00:19:51
Speaker
They don't understand and they don't have a manual.
00:19:54
Speaker
What I can say is just try to be there for a second.
00:20:00
Speaker
Like don't try to make the person feel better.
00:20:03
Speaker
Because what are these sentences?
00:20:05
Speaker
You'll get over it.
00:20:06
Speaker
My god, that's awful.
00:20:08
Speaker
Or he's in a better place.
00:20:11
Speaker
Or I heard a lot of be strong.
00:20:14
Speaker
Like all of this is trying to make other person feel better.
00:20:18
Speaker
I have another suggestion.
00:20:20
Speaker
How about don't try to make him feel better because he won't.
00:20:24
Speaker
Don't try to change the reality for him or paint it in brighter colors because you know what?
00:20:31
Speaker
The person who's experiencing the loss is the first person who would have loved to change it if he could.
00:20:37
Speaker
Like he would have loved to, you know, reverse the news.
00:20:40
Speaker
He would have loved to make his mom that's sick with dementia not sick.
00:20:44
Speaker
Right.
00:20:45
Speaker
He would love to get the call that is dead in the hospital and hang up and have it all like reversed and not happen.
00:20:52
Speaker
But they can't.
00:20:55
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:20:55
Speaker
That's where we're trying to convey, like the gravity of the situation of this aspect of life is so fucking real.
00:21:02
Speaker
So the best thing that you can do, dear listener, if you want to develop grief literacy, is to be there with the person who's experiencing this shit.
00:21:11
Speaker
Like they're sitting in the shit.
00:21:13
Speaker
Just sit with them in the shit for one second.
00:21:18
Speaker
Just try to feel half of a percent of what they're feeling.
00:21:21
Speaker
Just be there with them for one moment.
00:21:24
Speaker
And then when you feel it, you can say, this is so terrible.
00:21:28
Speaker
This sucks.
00:21:29
Speaker
This is awful.
00:21:31
Speaker
This is just shit.
00:21:32
Speaker
And then you're connecting because then they're not alone for that one second that you're there with them.
00:21:38
Speaker
That's one moment that they're not there alone.
00:21:40
Speaker
I completely agree, Patricia.
00:21:42
Speaker
And off the back of what you said, I think that when you were touching on the way in which people can sometimes come out with stuff to make themselves feel better because they don't know what to say in terms of people trying to comfort the grieving person.
00:21:57
Speaker
I think, you know, when we talk about
00:21:59
Speaker
behaving in a high value way.
00:22:01
Speaker
One of the ways in which I think a high value person behaves is authenticity.
00:22:07
Speaker
And one of that is if you feel bad, then you feel bad.
00:22:10
Speaker
You don't stuff down your feelings, you acknowledge them, and you behave accordingly.
00:22:15
Speaker
You don't pretend to be okay, you don't push through it.
00:22:18
Speaker
And even though there isn't as good as support system as there should be for grieving people.
00:22:25
Speaker
But I think one of the things that my dad's, you know, passing has taught me, especially because you realize that life is really short, right?
00:22:32
Speaker
And, you know, we're only on this planet for a finite period of time.
00:22:38
Speaker
It's okay to ask for what you need.
00:22:40
Speaker
It's okay to be sad.
00:22:41
Speaker
It's okay to wallow.
00:22:42
Speaker
And I say this all the time in the context of a relationship ending.
00:22:46
Speaker
I think there's also an implicit pressure, especially on women to be like, yeah, fuck that low value screw.
00:22:51
Speaker
He ain't shit.
00:22:52
Speaker
I'm moving on.
00:22:52
Speaker
When actually I think some of the best growth and development can come from sometimes wallowing in your misery.
00:22:59
Speaker
And it's a bit different in the grieving process.
00:23:01
Speaker
But, you know, when I used to go through breakups and I used to mourn the end of a relationship, I would often say, okay, I'll give myself a week to just feel absolutely shit.
00:23:11
Speaker
I'll cry, I'll eat ice cream.
00:23:13
Speaker
I will, you know, basically set up a dartboard with this picture on it and throw darts at it until my thumbs are numb or whatever, whatever, right?
00:23:20
Speaker
To help me feel sorry for myself.
00:23:22
Speaker
And I think it's really, really important to process that feeling, to feel whatever you want to feel.
00:23:27
Speaker
And going back to grieving, it can be sometimes, you know, just like bursting into tears in the shopping mall, right?
00:23:33
Speaker
You know, I've sort of like made a deal with myself.
00:23:35
Speaker
If I want to cry over my dad, then I'll just do it.
00:23:37
Speaker
It doesn't matter if I'm at work, if I'm in the gym, if I'm at the shopping center, if I'm driving my car, if I'm at home, just do it.
00:23:45
Speaker
Like just because it's a release as well.
00:23:48
Speaker
And, you know, when you're dealing with something this profound,
00:23:51
Speaker
you can't escape it.
00:23:53
Speaker
You have to go through it.
00:23:54
Speaker
There's just absolutely no way to escape it.
00:23:56
Speaker
Even if you were to resort to things like even alcohol or drugs, that's a very, very, very, very temporary fix because it's just so encompassing and it's so overwhelming.
00:24:07
Speaker
And every single part of your life is going to be impacted.
00:24:10
Speaker
And again, I said this to Patricia on the bonus content, but, you know, death is more of a certainty for everyone than giving birth, right?
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:18
Speaker
And even though I don't think that maternal care is where it should be, but if we think about it, though, not everybody will give birth to a child, but everybody's going to die.
00:24:29
Speaker
But where is the, I guess, the frank discussions around grief?
00:24:33
Speaker
You know, where's the frank discussions around the actual bereavement process and what that looks like?
00:24:39
Speaker
Because for me, I'm not really sure if it's a process.
00:24:41
Speaker
I think for me, it's a state that I will probably always be in.
00:24:45
Speaker
even though I'm past the anger and denial stage, but it's just that constant, you know, just like Patricia said, that underlying sadness and the longing for my dad that is just never going to go away.
00:24:57
Speaker
It's very fresh.
00:24:59
Speaker
Well, first of all, I want to acknowledge the first and major part of what you were saying, because I could not agree more.
00:25:05
Speaker
It is so, so important.
00:25:08
Speaker
generally to feel what we feel because the only way out is through and you know that which doesn't bend breaks and I so full-heartedly believe in what you're saying and I'm so I don't know if happy is the right word but I'm even proud of hearing you say that you allowed yourself and you made a deal with yourself that you're going to give yourself the ability to feel what you feel and not to shove it in or resist it and I think that's so fucking valuable and so not for granted
00:25:36
Speaker
I think sometimes grief can bring up really ugly feelings too, though.
00:25:39
Speaker
Like, I think that a lot of people don't acknowledge that for the grieving person, sometimes there can be like some guilt.
00:25:45
Speaker
Like, I know for a fact that, you know, when I lost my dad, I was like in the thick of college and I was so preoccupied with school that like I would keep like dodging...
00:25:52
Speaker
opportunities to like be on calls with him.
00:25:54
Speaker
And like, he'd be like, Oh, yeah, get on a call.
00:25:56
Speaker
Like, let's talk.
00:25:57
Speaker
And I would always be like, no, I'm too busy.
00:25:58
Speaker
I have school, I have this, I have that.
00:26:00
Speaker
And like, you know, then obviously, suddenly, I think we had a chat like the day he passed away.
00:26:04
Speaker
I don't know if I called him that day.
00:26:05
Speaker
I don't think I called him.
00:26:06
Speaker
I think it was just like, we were exchanging messages, like text messages.
00:26:09
Speaker
And I hadn't heard from him.
00:26:10
Speaker
And like, I remember feeling a lot of guilt, just being like, you know, why didn't I call him more?
00:26:14
Speaker
Like there were so many chances, like there were so many times where he tried to call me and I was just always too busy for him.
00:26:19
Speaker
And like, it brings up a lot of like latent, like not just grief, but like anger at yourself.
00:26:23
Speaker
Cause you know, you have like the stages of grief, right?
00:26:26
Speaker
And like, you just feel so angry at yourself for like,
00:26:28
Speaker
Oh, why wasn't I more present?
00:26:29
Speaker
Why wasn't I more available?
00:26:30
Speaker
Like, why didn't I, you know, do more, especially if like you were separated from your parents, like I was because I, you know, I was at university at the time, again, because it's so uncomfortable for other people to like be around you.
00:26:39
Speaker
Like I felt even more isolated because I was in college and like, you know, college in the States at that time, everyone wants to have fun.
00:26:45
Speaker
They want to go party, they want to drink, like they don't want to be around this like sad girl with like the dead dad and stuff.
00:26:50
Speaker
It's just like such morose energy for them.
00:26:52
Speaker
And they don't mean to be that way.
00:26:53
Speaker
Because again, they're young and immature.
00:26:55
Speaker
And like, they're just drinking and having fun.
00:26:57
Speaker
But like I felt even more isolated from my peers because I felt like they just almost didn't want me around.
00:27:01
Speaker
And I think it's really important if you do have someone who's grieving in your life to like make sure that they feel included and that they're still part of like your group or whatever, because it's so easy to self-isolate when you're in that process anyway.
00:27:12
Speaker
You have this natural instinct maybe to cut yourself off from other people because you're like, oh, like no one can get me, like no one can understand me.
00:27:18
Speaker
But I think it's like, you know, whatever that person has that feels normal, like you're a part of that.
00:27:23
Speaker
You're a part of that.
00:27:24
Speaker
And I think that if you don't feel that kind of responsibility towards your friend or your family member to be like, you know, you're still a part of us.
00:27:29
Speaker
Like we still
Influence of Fathers and Defying Norms
00:27:30
Speaker
want you around.
00:27:30
Speaker
Like you can be the Eeyore of the group.
00:27:32
Speaker
You don't have to be at like 100% happy.
00:27:35
Speaker
Like you're not supposed to be, but like you're still a part of us and you're still welcome and included.
00:27:39
Speaker
Like that would have been so life changing for me.
00:27:41
Speaker
Because that was not what I got.
00:27:42
Speaker
What I got was a lot of isolation.
00:27:44
Speaker
I mean, I can't even blame other people for it because some of it was self-inflicted.
00:27:47
Speaker
But I think some of it was also just like, I could tell people were uncomfortable around me because they just didn't know how to talk to me.
00:27:52
Speaker
So they're like, let's just like not invite her because we want to drink and we want to have fun.
00:27:55
Speaker
Like maybe she'll get drunk and start crying.
00:27:57
Speaker
And like never in my life have I been like a get drunk and call my ex and cry kind of person.
00:28:01
Speaker
Like I'm a very happy drunk.
00:28:02
Speaker
So I was just like, I felt like I was being punished for experiencing this really bad thing.
00:28:07
Speaker
And so I like that particular semester, I remember I just like stayed by myself in my dorm all day and just studied.
00:28:11
Speaker
I had like the best grades I ever had that year because nobody wanted to hang out with me.
00:28:15
Speaker
And I felt so much guilt and so much anger because I was like, you know, why didn't I call my dad more?
00:28:18
Speaker
I spent all this time like studying, you know, instead of like calling my dad.
00:28:22
Speaker
Wow.
00:28:23
Speaker
I'm really sorry you had to go through that.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, that's the thing.
00:28:26
Speaker
I don't think people think about these things.
00:28:28
Speaker
Like, I was talking to Savannah about this on a call that we had once where I was like, when you're grieving, people are more concerned with how it makes them feel, not how it makes you feel.
00:28:35
Speaker
They're more concerned with how uncomfortable it makes them feel.
00:28:37
Speaker
Like, it's like, oh, I didn't reach out.
00:28:39
Speaker
Like, we had very similar experiences with, like, a guy friend who, like,
00:28:42
Speaker
didn't speak to me for a month.
00:28:43
Speaker
And he was like, well, you know, I didn't reach out initially, because I wanted to give you space.
00:28:46
Speaker
But then the longer I gave you space, I was like, oh, now it's like, just, you know, maybe it's not right to reach out to you, because now it just feels like it's too late.
00:28:52
Speaker
And so I just didn't reach out to you.
00:28:53
Speaker
And I was like, so you would rather risk like our friendship dying entirely than make some kind of attempt to let me know that you gave a shit about me.
00:29:00
Speaker
You know, I mean, of course, we're not friends anymore, because that guy is an idiot.
00:29:03
Speaker
And he's also a huge Trumper now.
00:29:05
Speaker
So I'm not upset about that.
00:29:06
Speaker
But
00:29:07
Speaker
But at that time, I was like, you would rather let this friendship die.
00:29:10
Speaker
I think that was when I first started realizing men are not your friends.
00:29:15
Speaker
And again, I don't wish anybody to join the dead parent club because it is awful.
00:29:21
Speaker
But, you know, when Diana's experience has happened to me, I say, well, I was once ignorant too.
00:29:27
Speaker
And, you know, one day you'll know what it feels like and it's not going to be nice.
00:29:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it's not.
00:29:33
Speaker
It's not.
00:29:33
Speaker
You see a lot of popular media talk about like, oh, the last moments you had with your dad and like, you know, like recollecting that.
00:29:39
Speaker
And some people have really bad last minutes, you know, like, I think that's kind of informed how I interact with people now where I'm like, if you really love this person, like, don't stay in a strop with them, like try to resolve conflicts with them when you can, because it's so important that
00:29:54
Speaker
you end things on a good note.
00:29:55
Speaker
Thankfully, when my father and I, when he passed away, we were on very good terms.
00:29:59
Speaker
There was nothing between, no fight or anything.
00:30:01
Speaker
But I still felt bad.
00:30:02
Speaker
I still felt bad that I didn't reach out to him more.
00:30:04
Speaker
But it's so funny that this conversation made me pull up.
00:30:07
Speaker
I saved the last WhatsApp chat that I had with my dad from 13 years ago.
00:30:10
Speaker
And this is the first time I pulled it out in 13 years.
00:30:13
Speaker
I like to keep it around because the last thing we ever said to each other was I said to him,
00:30:18
Speaker
you know, I work this hard because I just want you to be proud of me.
00:30:20
Speaker
And he's like, I've always been proud of you.
00:30:23
Speaker
Regardless of what you do.
00:30:25
Speaker
So that was the last message I ever got from him.
00:30:27
Speaker
I've always been proud of you.
00:30:28
Speaker
You don't need to bend your back over to make me proud.
00:30:30
Speaker
That's so supportive.
00:30:32
Speaker
Oh, that's so sweet.
00:30:33
Speaker
And that's such a good thing like to hold on to because it was similar with my dad.
00:30:38
Speaker
The last time I had a conversation with him before,
00:30:41
Speaker
The end stage delirium setting was that I told him, like, you know, dad, I want to pursue a law.
00:30:46
Speaker
Like, I want to pursue a career in law.
00:30:49
Speaker
And I remember he just said, like, with almost like that proud parent smile, he was like, oh, my daughter is going to become a lawyer.
00:30:56
Speaker
And he just looked so, so proud.
00:30:58
Speaker
And I 100% believed that he believed I could do it.
00:31:02
Speaker
Because he was always just that sort of, you know, dad, he championed us all.
00:31:06
Speaker
Sometimes like borderline, like delusional, like, you know, delulis is a saluli.
00:31:10
Speaker
But if I said I wanted to be like the president of Nigeria, like my dad would have 100% have absolutely backed me and believed in me.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I think having that self-belief from a man, because a lot of men, they sort of the opposite.
00:31:22
Speaker
If they know you're ambitious, they will try and take you down a thousand pegs.
00:31:26
Speaker
My dad was the complete opposite.
00:31:27
Speaker
Like he would always be like, you know, basically you can do whatever you want
00:31:31
Speaker
to do, you can be whatever you want to be.
00:31:33
Speaker
And I will always support you and genuinely believe in you.
00:31:36
Speaker
And I know that when he said that my daughter was going to be a lawyer, like he absolutely believed it.
00:31:40
Speaker
And he was really proud.
00:31:41
Speaker
He was proud of me anyway.
00:31:42
Speaker
But he was just, you know, like, he really bought into my ambition when I told him that this is what I want to do.
00:31:48
Speaker
That's the beauty, that unwavering support that is regardless of what you do or don't do.
00:31:53
Speaker
And from what I hear of your dad, like he was such a funny guy as well.
00:31:55
Speaker
Like I still remember this episode where you talked about like how he was talking about like these men who was like split 50-50 or something or whatever.
00:32:02
Speaker
And he's like, oh, they have a mental illness or something.
00:32:04
Speaker
I don't remember.
00:32:06
Speaker
He said that about like men who go after like the women much younger than them.
00:32:10
Speaker
And he just said it like, because my dad, like English wasn't his first language.
00:32:14
Speaker
So like when he wanted to say something with impact, he would default to Yoruba, which was his first language.
00:32:19
Speaker
And I remember me and my older sister were just sitting there and he was like, he just said it near him, oh my God, like these men who go after much younger women are just mentally ill.
00:32:26
Speaker
And it was so strange because my dad was really popular with younger women.
00:32:34
Speaker
Like when he was in hospital, I remember I went to go and visit him on my birthday and it was outside visiting hours.
00:32:39
Speaker
And usually in hospitals, they're really funny with you.
00:32:41
Speaker
If you go outside visiting hours or they'll just turn you away.
00:32:44
Speaker
So I went and then the lady was like,
00:32:47
Speaker
visiting hour starts at one and I got there at half 12 and I'm like, okay, I'm really sorry.
00:32:52
Speaker
And then when I said, oh, I'm here to see my dad, I said his name.
00:32:55
Speaker
She then started like grinning and then she just let me straight through.
00:32:58
Speaker
And then my dad was like surrounded by this gaggle of nurses.
00:33:01
Speaker
He was like,
00:33:04
Speaker
oh, you know, oh my gosh, you know, you're Mr. Savannah's dad.
00:33:08
Speaker
And I was like, okay, what's going on here?
00:33:10
Speaker
And then, so my dad, I mean, he wasn't like, you know, entertain, like lapping up the attention, but he had all these like, these like young nurses saying like, oh, he's my favorite patient.
00:33:21
Speaker
There was one nurse, she said like, anytime I see on the patient list in the morning when I come on shift, I'm looking after your dad.
00:33:27
Speaker
I literally do a twirl in delight because he's my favorite patient.
00:33:31
Speaker
And they just absolutely loved him.
00:33:33
Speaker
Oh my god, this is so strange because this is exactly like my dad.
00:33:36
Speaker
I remember when my dad was hospitalized.
00:33:38
Speaker
Also, I think this is one of the few green flags I have about men of that age group.
00:33:42
Speaker
If they get along with women of all ages and all women are drawn to them, they like them, there's something about them.
00:33:47
Speaker
Because my dad, he befriended and had genuine, sincere...
00:33:52
Speaker
like connections with women of all ages.
00:33:54
Speaker
Like they all trusted him, older women, younger women, like grandmothers age, little children, like everybody was drawn to him.
00:33:59
Speaker
And he went out of his way to help women.
00:34:01
Speaker
He'll help went out of his way to help women, like you get their financial lives in order.
00:34:05
Speaker
Like he did everything he could to support women in his life.
00:34:07
Speaker
And when he was hospitalized, I remember his best friend made a joke to me.
00:34:10
Speaker
And he was like, Oh, you know what, on some level, I think he likes being hospitalized because he's got all these pretty nurses catering to all day.
00:34:19
Speaker
That's all.
00:34:19
Speaker
He likes to be surrounded by all these women.
00:34:24
Speaker
And like all the nurses loved him too.
00:34:25
Speaker
And like, and I, and I remember telling my dad, I was like, you never want to get out.
00:34:29
Speaker
Like you're just surrounded by these women.
00:34:31
Speaker
I mean, I don't know what, you know, your dad looked like, you know, physically, but, you know, when I hear stories about Diana's dad and, you know, my dad, it just goes to show that when, you know, men say, oh, women like the 666 and you have to be like a bodybuilder and you have to be on six figures.
00:34:47
Speaker
I'm like, my dad was, I mean, he was tall, but that was it.
00:34:49
Speaker
It was the complete opposite.
00:34:51
Speaker
And it wasn't about the way he looked or how much money he had or, you know, like the Andrew Tate vibes he gave off.
00:34:57
Speaker
He wasn't like an alpha male, super, super alpha.
00:34:59
Speaker
He was just a decent person.
00:35:01
Speaker
And it seems like that's, you know, that's an anomaly if, you know, nurses for Diana and my dad are literally doing backflips when they get to look after them.
00:35:10
Speaker
I mean, to me, that was just my dad.
00:35:11
Speaker
He wasn't like a saint or anything like that.
00:35:13
Speaker
But it just goes to show like just how that just how much the bar has fallen in terms of these men.
00:35:19
Speaker
And I think that I was saying to my best friend as well, I think that, you know, such men are unfortunately a dying breed.
00:35:27
Speaker
I don't think they manufacture men like that.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, and such men I think are like
00:35:31
Speaker
There's such positive impacts on some of the men around them too.
00:35:34
Speaker
Because like my dad, you know, when he had, we had like a driver in his old company, like my dad owned his own business.
00:35:40
Speaker
And so he had like a guy who would chauffeur him from like working back.
00:35:43
Speaker
And this guy had two daughters.
00:35:44
Speaker
And like, he was like very disappointed about it.
00:35:46
Speaker
Because obviously, you know, I come from like a South Asian background.
00:35:49
Speaker
They value sons a lot more.
00:35:51
Speaker
And so nobody's that excited to have girls.
00:35:52
Speaker
And like everyone always gave my dad shit about having like just one girl because they were like, wouldn't you want a son to carry on your line?
00:35:58
Speaker
And he's like, I'm just going to say that my daughters were 10 of your sons.
00:36:01
Speaker
So.
00:36:01
Speaker
Wow, absolute boss.
00:36:04
Speaker
I don't really give a shit about your son.
00:36:05
Speaker
My dad was like the oldest cousin of all of like his clan.
00:36:09
Speaker
So he was the one who was responsible for babysitting all of the other kids.
00:36:12
Speaker
And he told me straight up, he was like, the only man that wants a son is the one that's never had to raise one.
00:36:18
Speaker
I had to look after those boys.
00:36:20
Speaker
And all I ever did was try to keep them alive because they would get into situations that they were never supposed to.
00:36:25
Speaker
And then I'm like, Oh my God, if this guy dies on my watch, it's going to be my fault.
00:36:29
Speaker
And so I was like, please, God, make sure I don't have a son.
00:36:34
Speaker
And he was like, begging to have a daughter.
00:36:36
Speaker
He was like praying every day.
00:36:37
Speaker
He was like, Oh my God.
00:36:37
Speaker
He was on a business trip when I was born.
00:36:39
Speaker
And when he got the call that my mom went into labor, because I was born earlier, he
00:36:43
Speaker
He was like, immediately, he's like, I went to the first place I could find, there were no temples there.
00:36:46
Speaker
He's like, I went to the first place of worship I could find.
00:36:48
Speaker
And I was like, God, Jesus, whoever's listening out here, just make sure it's a girl.
00:36:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:52
Speaker
Just make sure.
00:36:53
Speaker
He was that determined.
00:36:54
Speaker
He was like, I don't fucking want a son.
00:36:56
Speaker
The son is of no use to me.
00:36:58
Speaker
Your son is a ginormous liability.
00:37:00
Speaker
No thanks.
00:37:01
Speaker
very very keen on having a girl and just like grew up in a household where the women were very taken care of as well like you know when they would start like obviously because you know women sync up on their periods and stuff like when they would get their periods and stuff the men did all the labor because they were like well the women can't do anything they don't want to do anything so we do everything i remember he's like when my dad got married to my mom he was like i just thought that like you know in our culture women are not supposed to work on their periods so like i just thought that was a thing everywhere
00:37:25
Speaker
I didn't realize that was just my household.
00:37:27
Speaker
So he was like, when my mom was on her period, he was like, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to work.
00:37:30
Speaker
And he would do everything.
00:37:31
Speaker
And he was like, I didn't know until I got married to your mom that that's not a thing.
00:37:34
Speaker
Because I grew up with that, you know, I was expected to do all the household labor, like go to work, come back.
00:37:38
Speaker
And like, I was told what my tasks would be, because it was like a big family.
00:37:42
Speaker
And he's like, I had to babysit this person, or I had to wash that dish or had to do this.
00:37:45
Speaker
So there was no like notion of, you know, that's not his job.
00:37:48
Speaker
But when he got older, he was able to afford it.
00:37:50
Speaker
He was like, you know what, I'm going to hire people to do this so that my wife has more free time.
00:37:53
Speaker
Like, again, looking out for his wife, looking out for his family.
00:37:56
Speaker
And like when he met my driver, my driver was like, I'm very upset because I have two daughters.
00:37:59
Speaker
And he's like, he's like, now I have to worry about getting them married.
00:38:02
Speaker
Like, I don't want to invest in their education.
00:38:03
Speaker
And he's like, what if, radical thought, what if I invest in your daughter's education so you don't have to worry about that?
00:38:09
Speaker
And then you don't try to get them married and like, let them make their own choices.
00:38:13
Speaker
And my driver is like, great thought experiment.
00:38:15
Speaker
Let's do that.
00:38:18
Speaker
And he actually got them educated.
00:38:20
Speaker
Both of them are doctors now.
00:38:21
Speaker
And he's like, I would have never done that if your dad hadn't pushed me.
00:38:25
Speaker
That's an amazing story.
00:38:27
Speaker
Amazing dad.
00:38:29
Speaker
Like I really had to have that mindset shift because I really didn't think they were worth much.
00:38:33
Speaker
He said this to me very casually and I was like, that's not nice.
00:38:35
Speaker
And he was like, no, really.
00:38:36
Speaker
Like until he told me that this is a possibility, I'd never registered it because no man around me would have done it.
00:38:41
Speaker
But because he took that financial burden off my plate and he educated them,
00:38:44
Speaker
And I didn't have to worry about that.
00:38:46
Speaker
Like they're thriving now, you know?
00:38:48
Speaker
So I've like through my life, I've had a lot of women come up to me and be like, I went to college because of your dad.
00:38:51
Speaker
I bought my first house because of your dad.
00:38:53
Speaker
I had all these like life experiences because of your dad.
00:38:56
Speaker
Like, again, that's the standard I was accustomed to.
00:38:59
Speaker
So as you can imagine, I'm desperately single.
00:39:02
Speaker
Yeah, and it becomes, honestly, it becomes really, really hard.
00:39:05
Speaker
Like, I remember I saw on X, was it, I hate that site, but there was a tweet going around about, you know, those like the manosphere X type places.
00:39:16
Speaker
And it said something like, oh, make sure you date a woman who has a good relationship with her dad.
00:39:21
Speaker
And I thought, well, actually, if a woman has a good relationship with her dad, she would most likely avoid the manosphere types because her dad will set such a high standard of behavior.
00:39:32
Speaker
And she won't settle for less.
00:39:33
Speaker
Like my dad is a big reason why I'm happy to be child free because I think he was one of those men who were actually happy to be a father and a dad.
00:39:44
Speaker
I feel like a lot of like men, they like the idea of being a dad, like the fun dad who just picks up the kids as and when they feel like it, they're in the photo ops, but they don't actually do like the child rearing.
00:39:55
Speaker
But, you know, when I asked my dad, like, you know, what was the happiest time of your life?
00:39:59
Speaker
He would always say, you know, when the four of you were really, really, really, really small, because he really, really enjoyed being that parent.
00:40:05
Speaker
And I saw that, you know, when he was with his granddaughter, that he just really, really loved being around small children and, you know, taking care of them.
00:40:13
Speaker
And he used to work two shifts.
00:40:15
Speaker
He used to work two jobs, because that's what he did as an immigrant in 1980s and 1990s Britain to make ends meet.
00:40:21
Speaker
an active father, it was so easy to make the excuse of, oh, I'm tired because he literally worked two jobs, but he would still come home and be an active father to all of us.
00:40:31
Speaker
And again, I just don't think they breed men like that anymore.
00:40:35
Speaker
And he was never like, we go 50-50 with my mum or
00:40:38
Speaker
I'm not taking the kids to school because I did it last week.
00:40:41
Speaker
Like he did it all.
00:40:42
Speaker
Like all my teachers, even the dentist where I got my teeth straightened as a teenager.
00:40:47
Speaker
When I went back in 2023 to get them straightened again, I remember the first thing the receptionist asked me was like, oh, how's your dad?
00:40:55
Speaker
And I was like, how do you know my dad?
00:40:57
Speaker
And then she was like, well, he used to come and, you know, take you to all your appointments.
00:41:00
Speaker
And this was what, 13 years?
00:41:02
Speaker
About 13, 14 years.
00:41:04
Speaker
And she still remembered him because he would always take me to my orthodontist appointments.
00:41:07
Speaker
And he was just that active and involved.
00:41:09
Speaker
And I just feel like if a man is not willing to do that, at least, then he's not worth having a kid with.
00:41:14
Speaker
And I know such men exist.
00:41:16
Speaker
You know, I'd like to believe that there are men out there like, you know, my dad, like Diana's dad, but it makes it a lot easier to not settle for a guy who isn't willing to do all of that or is not that committed in my experience.
00:41:30
Speaker
And I think that that's the thing, right?
00:41:31
Speaker
Those kinds of men, they bring more joy.
00:41:33
Speaker
That you can weather storms with them because they have that attitude.
00:41:37
Speaker
Like my dad used to take me to my dentist appointments too.
00:41:39
Speaker
I also think it's so sad to think that part of the reason she probably remembers it is because it doesn't happen that often.
00:41:43
Speaker
It doesn't happen.
00:41:44
Speaker
It doesn't happen.
00:41:45
Speaker
She noticed it.
00:41:46
Speaker
I think it's more than just men aren't manufactured like that anymore.
00:41:51
Speaker
I think it's people aren't manufactured like that anymore.
00:41:54
Speaker
It sounds like both of your dads were really, you know, huge people.
00:41:58
Speaker
Like my dad was kind of short, but my brother told me he doesn't remember him as small.
00:42:02
Speaker
He remember him as a big, big person because of his personality and because of everything that he brought to the world.
00:42:09
Speaker
And me and my brother, we're both trying to manifest like my dad's legacy in a way.
00:42:14
Speaker
Like he didn't have a lot of money.
00:42:15
Speaker
He didn't have much, but he was always, always helping people.
00:42:19
Speaker
So many people reached out to me after he was gone, told me how much he helped them.
00:42:23
Speaker
And he was a super authentic person, similar to what you guys are sharing, like really left an impression on people because of how authentic and warm he was.
00:42:31
Speaker
And I think that these kinds of values of helping people, of being present, of being loyal, like my dad and my mom split up when I was like 17.
00:42:43
Speaker
I wouldn't say they were always friends, but they always had each other backs.
00:42:46
Speaker
Like, you know, one of them had a cold, the other brings a soup.
00:42:49
Speaker
Like my mom helped my dad with stuff and he, you know, went with her to do the test for the car because she's nervous about it.
00:42:55
Speaker
Like they were always helping each other, even though they weren't a couple for many, many, many years.
00:43:00
Speaker
And they also immigrated together to a new country, right?
00:43:04
Speaker
So they were each other's family in a broader sense.
00:43:06
Speaker
And I think that taught me a lot about values.
00:43:09
Speaker
And I think that's something that I don't think that is something that I take with me.
00:43:12
Speaker
And it is even beyond the context of dating.
00:43:15
Speaker
It is like, to put it in an FDS context, it's like the leveling up.
00:43:18
Speaker
It's the part of like, who do I want to be in this world?
00:43:21
Speaker
What kind of values I want to portray?
00:43:23
Speaker
So I'm always trying to help people if I can.
00:43:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like my dad was, you know, the thing is, he always feels taller to me, because in my brain, I'm still that little kid, you know, so he still feels taller, like, even though I think that by the end of it, we were probably similar in heights, but he has such a big, he's such an eccentric, bohemian, radical person, like such as like, singular, one of a kind sort of human being.
00:43:44
Speaker
that leaves an impression because just impeccable taste, impeccable style, just impeccable thoughts on things.
00:43:49
Speaker
It's just so well-informed, so curious, and just very few people have that kind of interest.
00:43:55
Speaker
Big reader, like so informed about what's going on in the world, you know?
00:43:58
Speaker
And those kinds of people leave an impression on you, like a fully well-rounded, developed human being.
00:44:02
Speaker
And like, that's the thing when you go on these dates with people and you're like, oh my God, you might as well be an NPC right now.
00:44:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:09
Speaker
Like, how are you like this?
00:44:11
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:44:11
Speaker
Like, then my dad was very protective about the kind of men he allowed around me.
00:44:15
Speaker
Like if they were good men, you would hear nothing about them from him.
00:44:18
Speaker
But if they were bad men, oh my God, he wouldn't stop.
00:44:20
Speaker
Like if you were a good guy, my dad had nothing to say about you.
00:44:23
Speaker
He refused to give men compliments.
00:44:24
Speaker
He's like, they hear enough.
00:44:27
Speaker
like he just didn't believe in it and also he knows what men are like like the first person to tell my sisters and i you know that men lie was my dad he was the first person like to say and to tell us like you know the true nature of men he was the first person to set us on that path so when i don't know when these like manosphere types i'm guessing they're saying that
00:44:51
Speaker
She needs to have a good relationship with her dad so that she can worship me, basically.
00:44:55
Speaker
Like, it's not going to work like that.
00:44:57
Speaker
If a woman has a good father, that is probably one of the best antidotes, in my opinion, to low-value men, is if you've got a good dad.
00:45:05
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:06
Speaker
I think they're trying to say that that means she's not going to have like severe issues.
00:45:10
Speaker
But if she's not going to have severe issues, she's not going to date you.
00:45:13
Speaker
Why would she choose you, right?
00:45:14
Speaker
I mean, she means he's not going to have severe issues with like, you know, like their behavior.
00:45:19
Speaker
Like they expect her to be submissive, to be subservient to a man.
00:45:22
Speaker
They're stupid because they think that like your father is grooming you to be a submissive wife to them.
00:45:27
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:45:28
Speaker
My father was like, men aren't shit.
00:45:30
Speaker
Men aren't shit.
00:45:31
Speaker
You're a goddess and they're just merely men.
00:45:34
Speaker
My dad used to say like anytime like I was like, oh, well, you know, the men don't think and he was like, and since when does God care about the whims of man?
00:45:40
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I'll move on.
00:45:42
Speaker
You know, no questions asked.
00:45:43
Speaker
Because my dad, that's the pedestal he put me on.
00:45:45
Speaker
He treated me like I was a divine being.
00:45:46
Speaker
He's like, to me, you're like a blessing from my God.
00:45:49
Speaker
I'm not going to make you ever think that you're like beneath men.
00:45:53
Speaker
Like it with the tone of disdain as well.
00:45:56
Speaker
And like he took so much pride in being a provider, you know, like, even I always tell people like my dad provides me beyond the grave, like a couple of years ago, when I moved back, I had like no money left.
00:46:05
Speaker
And I told my mom, like my laptop was a completely crash.
00:46:07
Speaker
And obviously, I need my laptop for my work.
00:46:09
Speaker
And like, my mom was like, well, he put this bond when you were born that just matured, like the year you turned 30.
00:46:15
Speaker
And it was the exact amount I needed for my computer.
00:46:17
Speaker
Oh, that's pretty freaking amazing.
00:46:19
Speaker
And I was like, wow, like almost like 13 years after he passed, he's still providing for me.
00:46:23
Speaker
Like it's because of him.
00:46:24
Speaker
I own a house now.
00:46:25
Speaker
It's because of him.
00:46:26
Speaker
I have no debt now.
00:46:27
Speaker
Like I remember like that was one of the things he told me consistently.
00:46:29
Speaker
He's like, I'm going to make it so you will never, ever know what it's like to bow your head before a man and ask him for money.
00:46:34
Speaker
You won't ever know what that is.
00:46:36
Speaker
And he kept that promise, you know, again, I'm not used to a man that doesn't keep his promises to me.
00:46:40
Speaker
And that's why I don't settle for men who don't.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:44
Speaker
Damn.
00:46:44
Speaker
Damn.
00:46:45
Speaker
I don't know that.
00:46:46
Speaker
I don't know that experience.
00:46:46
Speaker
And I don't want to know that experience.
00:46:48
Speaker
Not my struggle.
00:46:49
Speaker
Hashtag, you know.
00:46:51
Speaker
And again, you know, he's one of the best antidotes against Ovali men because you've seen the way your dad treats you.
00:46:57
Speaker
You saw the way he treated your mom.
00:46:59
Speaker
And you know that that kind of man is possible, that they do exist.
00:47:03
Speaker
They might be, I don't know, there might be a manufacturing era, perhaps in the 1990s onwards.
00:47:07
Speaker
But
00:47:08
Speaker
And also our dads, they also came from cultures where they had every reason to be misogynistic pieces of shit.
00:47:15
Speaker
But you know what I mean?
00:47:15
Speaker
So like Nigeria is one of the most misogynistic cultures on earth.
Gender Roles in Grieving
00:47:20
Speaker
And I remember my dad used to get so much shit from his friends because he would come home from work.
00:47:25
Speaker
And my mom, you know, she had she had like five pregnancies in seven years, really wrecked her body as well.
00:47:31
Speaker
So she was unwell for a lot of our childhood.
00:47:34
Speaker
And my dad would do all the cooking and he would get shit from his friends from doing that.
00:47:37
Speaker
So like, why are you cooking for your wife?
00:47:39
Speaker
Like she should be cooking for you.
00:47:40
Speaker
And they stopped talking to him, but that didn't mean that he stopped doing it.
00:47:43
Speaker
You know, he was just that principal and he never saw it as, well, I'm the man, so I should never cook.
00:47:48
Speaker
He just saw it as I'm taking care of my family.
00:47:51
Speaker
If he wanted to be misogynistic, if he wanted to cheat, again, it's well known.
00:47:55
Speaker
They call the Yoruba men, which is a tribe my dad was from, Yoruba demons, because they have second families.
00:48:02
Speaker
They cheat on their wives.
00:48:03
Speaker
They beat their wives as well.
00:48:05
Speaker
Again, my dad is probably one of the few people in my parents' social circle whose partner, who didn't cheat on his wife or wasn't beating her up on the regular.
00:48:17
Speaker
Domestic abuse, domestic violence, infidelity is really, really common.
00:48:21
Speaker
in Nigerian marriages.
00:48:22
Speaker
And so they had all the excuses in the world.
00:48:24
Speaker
And it also proves to me that if my dad can come from that sort of, you know, context, and choose to live the way that he did, then a lot of the depravity that men inflict upon women is also a choice.
00:48:38
Speaker
It's not necessarily innate, they can choose to be better.
00:48:41
Speaker
And my dad always said, like, when he was younger, he was the most patient person you could ever meet.
00:48:45
Speaker
I think in my entire life, I think I maybe saw my dad actually lose his temper maybe twice in my life.
00:48:51
Speaker
He was super patient, but he always said, like, when I was younger, I used to have hot temper.
00:48:55
Speaker
And I think that as he got older, he really, really mellowed out and he just chose to be different.
00:49:01
Speaker
I think it's a classic example of that these men, even if they are from the most misogynistic, you know, cultures in the world, they can choose to be different.
00:49:09
Speaker
they just choose to uphold patriarchy and they choose to lean into their misogyny.
00:49:13
Speaker
Oh my God, that.
00:49:15
Speaker
Like my dad was orphaned.
00:49:16
Speaker
And I always think about these men who like justify the way they treat women by being like, well, I didn't grow up with a father.
00:49:20
Speaker
So I didn't have like a good role model.
00:49:22
Speaker
But my dad was like pretty much orphaned by the time he was like 19.
00:49:26
Speaker
And he craved the family so badly.
00:49:29
Speaker
And I remember he was telling me, he was like, you know, when he used to go on these business trips, like these other men would take it as an excuse to like party and get drunk and shit faced and stuff.
00:49:36
Speaker
And like he worked around like Japan and stuff.
00:49:37
Speaker
And you know, like when they have like those cultures of
00:49:39
Speaker
hotels where like these hostess or whatever, like this really creepy culture of like women who come and perform for you.
00:49:44
Speaker
And he was so uncomfortable with that.
00:49:45
Speaker
And he was like, no, I used to go in on my meeting, stay there for the weekend, then everybody else would stay for the weekend so they could party and like their wives wouldn't know about it.
00:49:52
Speaker
And he was like, you guys can pretend you don't have a family.
00:49:56
Speaker
I got to go and read my daughter a bedtime story.
00:49:57
Speaker
And he would come back in time, like take the earliest flight to come back and read me a bedtime story.
00:50:02
Speaker
And he was like, you understand that?
00:50:03
Speaker
Like I spent most of my life wondering what it's like to have parents.
00:50:06
Speaker
And then I finally got to be wanting to think I'm going to squander that opportunity.
00:50:09
Speaker
Oh, no, if it was your average man, they'd see that as an opportunity to be like, oh, well, yeah, it's time to dish out the pain, you know, that had been dished out to me.
00:50:17
Speaker
And then if anyone calls me out on it, I would just say it's because of my childhood.
00:50:20
Speaker
It's always a choice.
00:50:21
Speaker
It is always a choice.
00:50:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's about your innate values.
00:50:23
Speaker
And indeed, the decisions that you make, it's not about the culture that you came from.
00:50:27
Speaker
I think he thrived being a parent.
00:50:28
Speaker
I think he really wanted that.
00:50:29
Speaker
Like Indian, South Asian family, also very, very misogynistic and also lots of like infidelity and stuff.
00:50:34
Speaker
And he was like, no, I want to be a parent.
00:50:36
Speaker
And like, they looked after my mom as well.
00:50:37
Speaker
Like, you know, he used to invest all of her money for her and he made sure that like she would never have to worry about money either.
00:50:42
Speaker
And he never took any money from her.
00:50:43
Speaker
I remember asking her, I was like, because when this 50-50 stuff started coming up on FDS, I was like, oh, like, did you ever go 50-50?
00:50:48
Speaker
I mean, she started laughing at me.
00:50:49
Speaker
I was like, listen, I'm asking you like seriously.
00:50:51
Speaker
She was like, yeah, go and ask your father if you'd want to split 50 50.
00:50:54
Speaker
Like he'd take that as an insult.
00:50:55
Speaker
You'd be telling him he's not a good dad.
00:50:57
Speaker
That's the equivalent of that.
00:50:58
Speaker
Because he takes a lot of pride in looking after his family.
00:51:00
Speaker
And he doesn't need my money.
00:51:02
Speaker
So like her money was her money and his money was their money.
00:51:04
Speaker
And I was like, well, what did you do?
00:51:06
Speaker
Like, what did you bring to the table?
00:51:07
Speaker
And she was like, I think I packed his bags when we would go on holidays.
00:51:11
Speaker
And I was like, that's nice.
00:51:13
Speaker
But like, again, there was no expectation.
00:51:14
Speaker
And that's what I mean.
00:51:15
Speaker
Like, you have to be in these environments where like these men actually take pride in being family members.
00:51:20
Speaker
Many men don't.
00:51:21
Speaker
Even though they benefit from it.
00:51:23
Speaker
But that's probably a separate episode for another rant.
00:51:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:27
Speaker
A separate rant for another episode.
00:51:28
Speaker
And I think finally as well, it'll be good to also mention just sometimes the unique ways in which bereavement and loss can affect women.
00:51:37
Speaker
Because I don't know about Patricia and Diana's experiences, but I know that when my dad passed, it was really, really weird, right?
00:51:43
Speaker
So my...
00:51:45
Speaker
brother and me were on my dad's next of kin.
00:51:48
Speaker
So if anything happened to my dad, they would call, usually my brother actually, because they called him the day before my dad passed away to let him know that my dad wasn't doing too well in the hospital and they were getting a bit concerned.
00:51:58
Speaker
They weren't concerned he would die, but they were just concerned about his trajectory.
00:52:03
Speaker
Anyway, so, but when it came to the call to notify the family that he passed away, it came through to me.
00:52:10
Speaker
And I was a bit like, it's the call that you never want to get.
00:52:13
Speaker
And you're thinking, what the fuck?
00:52:13
Speaker
It's
00:52:14
Speaker
You know, why the fuck do they call me not him?
00:52:16
Speaker
But I honestly believe that it was perhaps my dad's understanding that the women in the family are going to end up getting things done.
00:52:24
Speaker
And when it came to my dad's funeral and his affairs after he passed, so like his estate administration, it was pretty much me and my sister that did all of it.
00:52:33
Speaker
alongside trying to manage our grief because the men in our family, like, you know, my dad was the youngest of four brothers.
00:52:40
Speaker
Like none of them came to his funeral.
00:52:42
Speaker
I understand to a point because they're older and they were in their 70s.
00:52:45
Speaker
Some of them had health issues, but not a single one of them showed up to his actual funeral.
00:52:49
Speaker
You know, my brother was pretty much nowhere to be seen in terms of the funeral planning.
00:52:53
Speaker
And it ended up resting pretty much on me and my sister to deal with the estate and to sort the funeral out.
00:53:00
Speaker
On top of trying to manage our own grooves and, you know, deal with our own lives and jobs as well.
00:53:05
Speaker
And, you know, that experience from people I've spoken to isn't unique.
00:53:09
Speaker
I think that women are also expected, as usual, to do a disproportionate amount of, you know, the physical, emotional, mental labor that comes with losing a family member.
00:53:19
Speaker
I'm sorry that that's how it played out.
00:53:21
Speaker
I have to give like a ton of credit to my brother who took care of everything because I was just a mess.
00:53:29
Speaker
He took care of every, every, every, everything.
00:53:32
Speaker
You're very, very lucky to have had that.
00:53:34
Speaker
Like your brother is a real one for that.
00:53:36
Speaker
I'm so lucky for my siblings, I know.
00:53:38
Speaker
Again, very culturally specific, but like in Hinduism, right, like all of the religious and spiritual rites are done by the men.
00:53:45
Speaker
And because I was like the only female member of the family, like there were only certain things I was allowed to do.
00:53:49
Speaker
Like I wasn't allowed to go to the area where they cremated him.
00:53:52
Speaker
Like I wasn't really present because we dispersed like the ashes and the Ganges and all that stuff.
00:53:56
Speaker
Like I didn't get to do any of that.
00:53:58
Speaker
So I didn't really get to do any of like the closing rites that you're supposed to normally do.
00:54:03
Speaker
And that's another thing like that they leave you out of because like I was definitely involved in like the estate planning and stuff like all that shit they call me for.
00:54:10
Speaker
But like the actual spiritual aspect of like saying goodbye, like you're a woman.
00:54:14
Speaker
So, you know, no, not for you.
00:54:16
Speaker
To be fair, I don't think that I would have been up to it anyway.
00:54:19
Speaker
But like, it's weird that like there was no offer.
00:54:21
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:54:22
Speaker
Like it's you're not supposed to do it.
00:54:24
Speaker
And I mean, there have been a lot of women in India who have like battled against this and been like, well, no, I'm going to reserve the right to like, you know,
00:54:29
Speaker
say goodbye to the deceased and like conduct the rights because it's traditionally like a man's territory and people have pushed back on that.
00:54:35
Speaker
But like, that's the thing, like even in death, right?
00:54:37
Speaker
Like so many cultures like isolate women and say, well, because you're a daughter, you're not worthy of mourning your own parent, like, which is so weird.
00:54:45
Speaker
Or they expect women to do all the labor and it's just expected that, that they carry it.
00:54:50
Speaker
So there's even like cultural differences like Diana said in terms of how women are treated once, you know, someone's passed away.
00:54:57
Speaker
This is part of the reason why I hate religion, because it's an encapsulation of a much darker time when women have even less rights, and it's always misogynistic.
00:55:07
Speaker
But I mean, like, that's like, they'll make you do the stuff that like, they don't want to do.
00:55:10
Speaker
So it's like, oh, all the stuff that's spiritually meaningful, like the men get to do.
00:55:13
Speaker
But like, if it's like cooking for like 100 people for the funeral service, like, let's get the women to do that.
00:55:18
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:20
Speaker
The women to do it.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:22
Speaker
I mean, I don't mean to beat the spiritual part of it.
00:55:24
Speaker
But basically, religion is a power structure.
00:55:28
Speaker
But yeah, that's for a different episode, I guess.
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree.
00:55:33
Speaker
I mean, to me, it didn't really matter that much because I'm not a religious person.
00:55:36
Speaker
But I can see why to someone who is a religious person, like being able to say goodbye to your parent through like your own, you know, religion is very important.
00:55:44
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:44
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:55:46
Speaker
That would have been even more hurtful.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Belief Systems and Coping with Loss
00:55:48
Speaker
Want to take part in the spiritual stuff and you can't because of your gender.
00:55:52
Speaker
And you're kind of told you're not because you're of your gender, you know?
00:55:55
Speaker
So I wasn't particularly buzzing to cremate my dad.
00:55:58
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:59
Speaker
No.
00:55:59
Speaker
And I think that's the crux of it.
00:56:01
Speaker
It's that choice is taken away, whether it's the fact that the women have to do all the planning of the estate and the funeral, like me and my sister had to do bearing and the caretaking prior to that.
00:56:12
Speaker
to my dad's passing or if you don't even have the choices how you want to be involved and I think a lot of grief and I think a ton of you know the way in which we process grief there has to be an element of choice because ultimately the biggest decision as to whether your your loved one lives or dies has been taken out of your hands and you feel massively out of control oh wow that's deep man I hadn't thought about it that way yeah yeah
00:56:38
Speaker
And so whether they freeze you out or freeze you in, I think it's almost two sides of the same rather shitty coin for women.
00:56:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:45
Speaker
I mean, out of curiosity in Nigerian culture, do you ever like revisit the grave or something like once a year?
00:56:51
Speaker
Are there like ancestral sort of rights you have to do, like, you know, to honor your ancestors?
00:56:55
Speaker
Is there something like that?
00:56:56
Speaker
Because in India, that's like very much a thing that like, you know, yearly you have to do certain things like to honor the departed's memory and stuff like that.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah, so in terms of visiting the actual grave, there's no customs.
00:57:08
Speaker
You can go as often or as little as you like.
00:57:10
Speaker
But we do like to mark certain milestones of the departed with giving food to the poor.
00:57:20
Speaker
So we did that for my dad.
00:57:21
Speaker
So on the 7th day of his passing, we paid for food to be distributed to the poor in Lagos.
00:57:30
Speaker
then I think on the 40th day of his passing as well.
00:57:33
Speaker
And then every year on the anniversary of his passing, we do the same thing.
00:57:38
Speaker
So my dad used to do the same for his parents on the anniversary of their passing, then he would do the same thing.
00:57:44
Speaker
So that's what we tend to do.
00:57:45
Speaker
Yeah, no.
00:57:46
Speaker
So part of the reason I was bringing up, like, do you have like final rites or things that you do or like, you know, things you can commemorate every year is like we have very similar things where like instead of seven days, it's like the 14th day or the 11th day or something.
00:57:59
Speaker
And I think like we go to a temple or a crematorium or something like that.
00:58:02
Speaker
And we feed crows because crows are supposed to represent.
00:58:05
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:58:07
Speaker
So it's like the concept is essentially when someone dies, they take the form of like an animal with a much shorter lifespan in preparation for like the next life that they're going to take.
00:58:15
Speaker
And so they're really hungry when they leave their original body before they get to the next life.
00:58:19
Speaker
So we feed the crows like to be to honor our ancestors.
00:58:23
Speaker
And so there's always been this like special connection to crows in general because I feed a lot of like the stray animals.
00:58:29
Speaker
I feed like a lot of dogs and cats.
00:58:30
Speaker
I have a lot of cat food and crows really love crows.
00:58:35
Speaker
And like, I've reached like peak Disney princess where like now the crows eat straight out of my hands, which I've been told is like a very uncommon thing because crows start trusting you and they start bringing you back trinkets.
00:58:45
Speaker
And so far they haven't brought me anything useful yet.
00:58:47
Speaker
It's just been like bottle caps and stuff.
00:58:49
Speaker
I'm hoping one day they bring me something really valuable.
00:58:51
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:58:52
Speaker
But like the thought process, man, like anytime I tell my mom and she's like so shocked that like these crows come to me and she was like, oh, it must be your dad.
00:58:58
Speaker
And I'm like, what makes you think this is my dad?
00:59:00
Speaker
And she's like, well, he's the only one I know who likes fish that much.
00:59:04
Speaker
That's so sweet.
00:59:06
Speaker
And so we're like always convinced that like he's finding us.
00:59:09
Speaker
And I don't know, like I think for people who are grieving, who have lost someone, you have to believe whatever you need to believe in order to believe
Encouraging Open Conversations on Grief
00:59:15
Speaker
they're with you.
00:59:15
Speaker
For some people, I think it helps them to think there's like final tone to it.
00:59:18
Speaker
It's like this is the end and like that's it.
00:59:19
Speaker
There's nothing more left.
00:59:20
Speaker
And I'm so grateful I got to spend like the time, the finite time that I have on this planet with this person and that like I got to meet someone who's so awesome.
00:59:27
Speaker
And I think for some of us, like, you know, I like the thought that like we're only separated by life.
00:59:32
Speaker
Yeah, same, same.
00:59:33
Speaker
And that's what sustained me, the belief and the hope that I'll see my dad again, and all my other loved ones as well.
00:59:40
Speaker
And you know, they say in physics that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can only transform.
00:59:47
Speaker
And I definitely feel like that's true with death.
00:59:49
Speaker
I know that the physical body can transform ashes to ashes, dust to dust and
00:59:53
Speaker
But I do feel like, you know, their general energy is not something that just, you know, goes away when their brain shuts down.
01:00:01
Speaker
I do think if they left a good legacy, it will transform and it will touch the people that love them and that cherish them.
01:00:09
Speaker
It doesn't just go away.
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:11
Speaker
You know, speaking of that energy, like I think I was telling you this a while ago as well.
01:00:14
Speaker
I was like, you know, there were certain signs that I feel like were coming from my dad, you know, like certain experiences I had that I was like, this is so like my dad coded.
01:00:22
Speaker
This is, you know, he's got a hand in this somehow.
01:00:24
Speaker
And like, it's so funny, because my friend can spot it now to like I talked to her and like I'll tell her about like some experience I had or like some really good opportunity that came my way.
01:00:31
Speaker
And she was like, this has your dad written all over it.
01:00:33
Speaker
Like she's like, he did this for you, you know?
01:00:36
Speaker
And it's nice to think that there's someone out there who's like protecting you in spirit.
01:00:39
Speaker
He's looking out for you.
01:00:40
Speaker
A hundred percent.
01:00:41
Speaker
A hundred percent.
01:00:42
Speaker
So that ended our lesson on grief.
01:00:45
Speaker
I think it's something that's good to talk about.
01:00:48
Speaker
And I'm glad that we had this discussion on this podcast, on this platform.
01:00:53
Speaker
But yeah, you know, talk to us.
01:00:54
Speaker
Have you experienced bereavement?
01:00:58
Speaker
And if so, what helped
Engaging with the Audience
01:00:59
Speaker
you get through it?
01:01:00
Speaker
Because I do think the more we talk about it, the more,
01:01:03
Speaker
Hopefully, society will become less grief illiterate, and more understanding of pain, of just pain, of human pain.
01:01:13
Speaker
I mean, I think it was so cathartic for us to talk about it even because like, I could sense even in our call, like, this is a very difficult topic to talk about, no matter how much time has passed, you know, it's just it's so heavy, no matter what never feels light.
01:01:24
Speaker
No, no.
01:01:25
Speaker
So yeah, it was a good topic to talk about.
01:01:28
Speaker
But on a slightly lighter note, if you haven't noticed already, we are back on socials.
01:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, back on socials.
01:01:36
Speaker
Insta X. You know, obviously communicate with us.
01:01:40
Speaker
Let us know what you thought of the episode.
01:01:42
Speaker
Give us like a shout out, suggestions, whatever you want.
01:01:44
Speaker
We want to hear from our listeners.
01:01:46
Speaker
We want to hear anything that you might think that we want to talk about.
01:01:49
Speaker
Any guests that you recommend.
01:01:50
Speaker
We're like, we're so in it.
01:01:52
Speaker
We're in it to win it this year.
01:01:54
Speaker
And about the guests, we have a awesome roster of guests coming up for you.
01:01:59
Speaker
So if you'd like anyone to be added to that list that we haven't spoken about, then do let us know and we will do our best to make it happen.
01:02:07
Speaker
And I guess I could sign off with a snarky for all you scrotes out there.
01:02:12
Speaker
But I think that it would be a dishonor to our wonderful fathers who were so much more than that.
01:02:18
Speaker
And so for anyone who has ever, you know, lost a loved one, I just hope that you find peace and comfort in your grief.
01:02:28
Speaker
And for all you dads out there, rest in peace.
01:02:31
Speaker
All you good dads out there.
01:02:33
Speaker
All you good dads.
01:02:34
Speaker
The scrote dads, we don't care about you.
01:02:35
Speaker
See you next week, queens.