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Should You Play Games? Taking FDS Principles to Heart
464 Plays3 hours ago
Rose and Patricia delve into the timeless question: should you play games? In the ensuing discussion, they find answers that underline how important FDS principles are in ensuring a healthy approach to dating and life.
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Transcript
Introduction and Philosophical Exploration of Games
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back, queens! It's your friendly neighborhood host, Rose. and have And I'm Patricia. Welcome back, queens. Ah, so delighted to be back with you. Today, I'm pretty excited about what you suggested.
00:00:14
Speaker
So I thought that we could ah discuss the concept of playing games. And is it actually games? Or is it stuff that seems like dry rules, but it actually stems from the deep philosophy of FDOs?
Therapeutic Insights and Personal Growth
00:00:28
Speaker
Absolutely. In fact, we were having just a little pre-show um discussion about setting up what we were going to talk about. And Patricia was saying, like, you know, we're going to have an argument. And i was like, are we going to argue or are we really talking about the same thing? And she's like, well, arguing is how you get to like deep reduce. Yeah. And that's what science does as well.
00:00:47
Speaker
Right. And then I was sort of reminded about PhD is in an interdisciplinary one. Part of it is anthropology. And my therapist was always saying, Rose, take dating as an opportunity to apply this sort of anthropological lens. She was like, apply that sort of scientific perspective. The idea that there's not true objectivity, but try to use your subjective lens to drill down into deeper objective truths.
00:01:12
Speaker
Dang. I know, right? Oh, I love my therapist. I miss her because she was like, you're good to go. Like, if you want other therapists, help yourself. But I think we've done what we needed to do, which is a real achievement moment for me.
00:01:23
Speaker
But what does that mean? What it means is like, instead of coming in with this idea that like, everything that the person does to you is directed at you specifically, maybe consider that these are like broader societal and social behaviors that have been modeled and enacted again and again. So that for other people, it's almost like a script that they're reading through.
00:01:44
Speaker
And it's really not so much about you individually as it is about sort of like the collective dating rules that we apply when we're in these spaces. That is so interesting. i love that because you kind of started from the end.
00:01:58
Speaker
You kind of like reached the point already. Exactly. I'm going to let this be a tease.
Application of FDS in Dating
00:02:03
Speaker
I'm going to let this be a tease. I want to start slow. I want to be sensual about it. I love it. Yeah. Let's take a sweet time. Because but that's why was so excited when you suggested this topic. I was like, yes, this was what she worked with me for many, many years to really deeply understand. And again, this is where FDS came in handy for me because I was still very much operating in this like meta analytical high theory kind of understanding of things. And FDS was like on the ground, practical application. Like this is the real world praxis. And finally, I was able to marry the two when FDS came into my life. That's so cool. Can you give me an example?
00:02:44
Speaker
I will give an example. For example, my therapist was always like, I live in a and a major city. It's a really big city. And I was going all over the city to go on dates. I was going on coffee dates. I was going on walk dates.
00:02:56
Speaker
And she was like, Rose, your time is way too valuable. And you are far too important to be just giving away a half a day that it takes you to get on a bus, to get on a train.
00:03:07
Speaker
to walk to this date and then meet up with somebody who's absolutely not invested whatsoever. If this were an individual who was really interested and invested in you, he would be coming to your neighborhood. He would be picking you up or finding ways to get you to this date. He would be doing much more than he actually is. And that's something that you need to start to value within yourself.
00:03:28
Speaker
And I was like, no, I think I was still in like the 50-50, know, like modern liberal feminism mode where I was just like, no, this is what true equality is.
00:03:40
Speaker
I'm an independent woman, therefore. independent woman. If I want him to make an effort, then I had to make an effort. And she would just like... shake her head. And she let it go. who laugh us She like knew when she was beat, she gracefully retreated. But then once I finally got to to find FDS, I was like, oh, I'm not doing any of this ever again.
00:04:03
Speaker
and that's when I finally started to have dates that were much more to my advantage to my benefit. I think that's one thing that FDS is always trying to push is like, unless it benefits you, it's not worth your time. And ultimately, that's what she had been trying to tell me the whole time.
00:04:18
Speaker
Exactly. That's nice. Like, I wonder, was there like a specific thing that you read or heard that made you understand specifically that facet, that men should come to you or make it comfortable for you?
00:04:31
Speaker
It was the sheer volume, Patricia. Like, it was the sheer volume of posts. And all of them saying the same thing. Again, that was like my anthropology cap was like I was able to crowdsource like mass volumes of data on the FDS subreddit that I had never had access to before. So, you know, like when you have to write ah an academic paper, you have to have like a bibliography.
00:04:53
Speaker
Yep. And you compose that bibliography after you've cast a wide net and you've read 10 or 20 times what actually ends up on the biography. Right. Or the bibliography. Right.
00:05:04
Speaker
I know that that's what you're supposed to do. I'm not the best at that. I'm sorry. Right. And so for me, it was like, oh, finally getting to see this vast amount of literature.
00:05:15
Speaker
That's how I sort of conceived of it in my head was like, this is all, you know, work cited that I had never been able to see before and never on such a scale. And so I literally read the entire website when I discovered it.
00:05:28
Speaker
And I went and I read the entire handbook and started studying it because I've always been a speed reader and I've always been an academic and a researcher. And I was like, if I'm going to understand this, like I need to get to the very bottom
Truth and Simplicity in Dating Rules
00:05:39
Speaker
of all of it. And the more I read, it was just like it was like a collective weight that finally crashed through this false bottom of liberal feminism that I had been grasping to.
00:05:49
Speaker
Oh my God, the wording now, that was like quotable. How do you say the compounding weight that crushed through the invisible floor of your liberal feminism? Yes, that's that's what i said. That was amazing.
00:06:01
Speaker
but Thank you. And I really resonate with that. Yes, that's the thing. It's like the power of words. When you can harness words for their true power, you can say with very few words something that is very powerful. And again, that's something that FDS again and again and again, it was like the women who would post, they weren't writing these screeds. They weren't writing paragraph upon paragraph. But what they wrote was so concise. And so to the point, like I said, it just really kind of brought it brought down these barricades that had been so firmly entrenched.
00:06:32
Speaker
in my mind. I totally hear you. And that was pretty much how it was for me, too. I also like if I get onto something, I'm onto it. And indeed, like, that's the thing. That's what I want to convey today, like that this is a cohesive philosophy that can shine through in like small things that may seem like dry rules, but it's not.
00:06:54
Speaker
I don't know if you remember the book, The Rules. I think it was like early 90s or something. Does that ring a bell for you? It does? 100%. Yeah, that was annoying. I'm not going to talk about that too much.
00:07:06
Speaker
But basically, that was like a set of rules that you should always follow. That was a progenitor to why he's just not into you. And that whole movie. This is the direct lineage of all those books. Yeah, I know. Right? Is the rules.
00:07:21
Speaker
In a way. But actually, he's just not that into you is... i mean, the movie and rewatch is so cringe, but it does tell a very deep truth. It basically is if he wanted to, he would.
00:07:34
Speaker
And the rules is kind of like, always remain mysterious. But what I'm trying to say, like why I'm mentioning the rules is because... It takes a lot of effort and mental labor. And like, you feel like you're going against yourself when you're applying these rules. You're like, no, don't call him because datatatatatata like it feels laborious. And generally, I think like from my spiritual journey, that's,
00:07:58
Speaker
If like an explanation for something is like really, really huge and cumbersome and like takes a lot of effort to explain that it's false. The truth is always simple and you always feel it when you hear it. You always recognize it.
00:08:11
Speaker
And that's, I think, the thing that you are describing with FDS and also what happened for me and also what happened for people who like the penny dropped for them, that there's like a thing and then you get entrenched in it. And then it's clear to you why you, for instance, don't double text and why you don't put effort into meeting a man, especially not on the first date. Like he should put effort into meeting you.
00:08:34
Speaker
So my gist today is that there are a few like FDS strategies that if you get FDS, you just employ them because you've already got it.
Scientific and Meditative Approaches to Dating
00:08:44
Speaker
But we want to make like some kind of entry level so that you can get it even if you don't feel like reading the whole handbook.
00:08:49
Speaker
And then maybe giving you a slice of the philosophy and some rules that you can follow, but not in a way of like... carrying like a mental load of, oh, a podcast told me to do this, but rather like giving you a slice of the philosophy, showing you the logic behind some of these moves or strategies or games.
00:09:09
Speaker
And then you can just try it. You can just try it and see how it feels and see what kind of result it gets you. And then you can see, does the logic play itself out in real life?
00:09:19
Speaker
You know, i love how you talk about it from like a scientific analysis. Like that's what my therapist would say. She's like, go out there and experiment. This is just like trial research. Just go see, you know.
00:09:31
Speaker
And that was also helpful for me because I think I was so tied to the notion of like I somehow had to succeed or I had to prove myself or I was so my perspective was topsy-turvy instead of me being like, do I like him?
00:09:43
Speaker
at the time, i was like, will he like me And so I think this whole ideology of FDS, it's really drilling down to the bottom of that and making you start to question what has always seemed to be so real because the patriarchy has completely propagandized our populations, but really starting to just kind of ask why things are the way they are and see if you alter one of your behaviors, what happens then?
00:10:10
Speaker
And these are the little steps you can take now that I think ultimately lead to like the psychological revolution. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not only a scientific approach, it's also like a meditation approach. It's also like an awareness approach.
00:10:23
Speaker
and like I'm now going through a rehabilitation from serious injury. So instead of always trying to push my knee to be where it should be, I try to practice feeling how it is, doing something and seeing what the effect is in the moment, in the reality.
00:10:40
Speaker
And I really, really connect to what you're saying that it's about... Letting go of this fear of not being loved and not being enough. We're kind of like dropping the big like truth bombs here.
00:10:53
Speaker
But this is, in essence, what it is. But this is like not super easy to just implement. So we're going to start with something simple. Like the framework I suggested for today is like, look at some simple rules or strategies or tactics or games, and then look at what's behind them.
00:11:10
Speaker
Fantastic. That's, I 100% agree. Let's get going.
Biological Instincts and Relationship Dynamics
00:11:14
Speaker
Do you want to present the first example? Well, Rose was sharing with me that you were reading the handbook.
00:11:21
Speaker
Rereading the handbook, like rereading Harry Potter. Right.
00:11:26
Speaker
What do you recall about maid guarding? The mate guarding was really helpful for me because, again, this was me being like, will he like me? Am I good enough? And what it really reminded me was like, this goes back to the animal kingdom. You know, if a male animal...
00:11:42
Speaker
feels possessive or proprietary towards their mate, they will do everything in their power to make sure that their mate's attention and energy is always on them and directed towards them. So if a man is really not that interested in ensuring that happens, it tells you the deeper truth that maybe you don't want to see, but it's there if if you have the clear eyes to really see it.
00:12:05
Speaker
Well said, 100%. So that's exactly it. Like, generally speaking, men are supposed to be mate guarding. They are supposed to, even in human societies, like if there's a girl that a guy wants, he should be the one that's like prowling on her, protecting her, making sure that she knows and everybody knows that he's into her and he's dating her and nobody else can touch.
00:12:27
Speaker
But then what happens when we become pick-me's, which welcome to FDS is like, I guess, an FDS term, but I think broader. Basically, a pick me is a girl that is saying, pick me.
00:12:38
Speaker
And then she's reversing the maid guarding role. And a small slice of reality in which this comes through, but it's an important one, is how women in today's like dating whatever dynamics, they sometimes say to the guy or like ask the guy, oh, what are we?
00:12:58
Speaker
oh Like, where do you see this going? And here comes the rule. Here comes the dry rule that if you don't hear anything like behind it or after it, it sounds stupid or ununderstandable or like you're trapped in a cage and you can't do what you feel like doing, which is asking the guy, what are we? Where is this going?
00:13:16
Speaker
And this is such, such a deep thing for us because I want to be held. I want to be appreciated. I want to feel loved, not only be loved, but feel loved.
00:13:30
Speaker
And sometimes that either takes time or that is just not apparent in reality. And then instead of letting the man play his role which is at some point asking you if you guys are exclusive this is the thing this is the strategy the strategy of fds don't ask a guy to be exclusive because that needs to come from him like if this is a text this is the bold part but this is like if i had just heard this ah like out of context i would go crazy but the thing behind this is that you're not supposed to try to hold him down he's supposed to try to hold you down.
00:14:10
Speaker
Right, exactly. I think a lot of the mentality of like, it's fine if you want to ask him or like you can also be somebody who is, you know, driving the boat. if That's not what we're coming at it from. We're not being like you're be passive.
00:14:23
Speaker
What we are pointing out is that women so often have to take the lead in everything in their lives. If he is not going to take the lead in this with your relationship, he never will in any other facet of the relationship. And ultimately, that leads to your dissatisfaction.
00:14:37
Speaker
And that's what we want to avoid, you know. I think you brought up such a deep thing that is in a way conveyed through a lot of these rules and even the original book, The Rules, which is that women are supposed to be passive or something. And that's not exactly true.
00:14:55
Speaker
But there is a facet to it that is true. It's not exactly about being being passive because I think women can be in their element and be very feminine and still be active in a way, but the active there is not necessarily leading Like we can be active in directing.
00:15:16
Speaker
I think that's really important. Like if you're, for instance, like I'm seeing somebody at the moment and he's like slow texting, in his perception, it's okay to make a plan for the weekend on Friday.
00:15:28
Speaker
I really don't like it and I see it as disrespect. So one time after I got really pissed off, I told him like that I don't like it and I want to be made plans with by Wednesday or Thursday morning tops. Thursday morning is the deadline.
00:15:43
Speaker
And it took me a while to like figure out like, because on the one hand, it's like, okay, if he's not asking you out by whatever day you decided that he should ask you out, then you shouldn't go out with him. Right.
00:15:55
Speaker
But I did feel like his intentions are good. He does make a plan, buy the tickets, la, la, la, la. So I decided to put forth some goodwill. And every week since then, he remembers that that's the deadline.
00:16:08
Speaker
And he makes plans for the weekend by Wednesday or max Thursday morning. And he makes an effort because that's not how his brain works. So I'm like, okay, I led a little bit. But if he would forget to do it the next week, I'm not going to do it again.
00:16:22
Speaker
You know what I mean? i think this is like a good example of you should direct the man, but maybe not lead the whole thing. I know that like in my last relationship, I led lot. I led a lot, even though I was supposedly an FDSer then and I knew that I was kind of breaking the rules.
00:16:42
Speaker
But I really loved him and I wanted it to work out. And this is the honest, brutal truth. I was too scared to let him lead because then maybe he wouldn't lead me to where I want to be.
00:16:54
Speaker
And instead of letting that happen and experiencing the pain that that might lead to, I chose to take the responsibility of the relationship on my back. And that is wrong.
00:17:06
Speaker
That's not why the relationship ended. But basically, like if I look back, I know that that was wrong. And I know that it's not a strategy. This comes from such a deep, deep place. Like I said, again, it's like
Emotional Honesty and Self-Worth in Relationships
00:17:18
Speaker
if you don't carry this on your back, then why what might happen? And this is the point where it is kind of passive.
00:17:25
Speaker
Because in a way, you kind of need to let go and see what happens. And this is really scary. And this is exactly what is behind the need or the want or the desire to ask, where is this going?
00:17:38
Speaker
Because you want to know where it is going, but you can't know. What tells where it's going is the person's behavior. Exactly right. And you know, that was a fantastic example, Patricia, that could not have been a better example, because I'm sitting here thinking, don't you? Yeah, I'm listening to you. And I'm like, wow, would I have ever pre FDS, or even like in my early years of FDS, would I have ever been able to say like, hey, if I don't hear from you?
00:18:04
Speaker
By Wednesday about weekend plans, like it's just not going to happen. But now I'm like, of course, it's easy. that I would not think twice about saying that. I just feel like, hey, my weekend, I have to know what's going on in a couple days in advance.
00:18:14
Speaker
If you want to do something, just let me know. Right. It's actually very simple to say it. And often they are very eager to have questions. sort of parameters put into place. Because listen, it's not like they are these all seeing all knowing individuals either. Like each one of us is an individual person. They are trying to get to know you if that's what they actually want.
00:18:31
Speaker
And that's another way that they can show that they actually want to get to know you is they're listening and they're receptive to what you indicate are important values and boundaries for you. I think something that is really hard for women, and also if you do what Patricia was talking about doing before, like you're taking the lead, you're doing all this work, it leads to long-term resentment because women have to do everything everywhere else.
00:18:52
Speaker
So here's just one more area where it's more work, it's more labor, it's more time and energy, and you never get a fucking break. And I think this is an area where because we've had to become so independent in so many ways to our benefit, right? Right.
00:19:06
Speaker
But because of that, the sort of overcorrection is now it's very difficult for us to receive, to be receptive. And again, in a dating capacity, that's where men should be excelling.
00:19:19
Speaker
That's when they are actively courting us, is when they're coming with gifts and they're coming with love and affection and respect and time. All of that is for you to receive. And if you're busy in the active mode of let's do this, let's go here, I want to do this,
00:19:35
Speaker
What can he come to bring you You've closed that door. And so you actually end up undermining and it's a self-defense mechanism, but ultimately it is a destructive one.
00:19:49
Speaker
Nice. Well put. Thank you. It's all the therapy, Patricia. No, but for real. The therapist is wrong. She is amazing. She's like, other than FDS, my therapist has been the most important thing for me in my adult life. I cannot begin to explain to you how much she has helped me have clear thinking. Because, you know, I was just...
00:20:10
Speaker
Like I've talked about before, my family was basically a cult. You know, we had the autocrat as the powder of Amelia, like super patriarchal, super misogynistic. And that's just what I thought life was. Of course, when you go out into the world, it's pretty much the same. Why would I think any different?
00:20:24
Speaker
But with a good therapist and a lot of self-determination to be like, I can't go out like this doesn't feel good. I'm so miserable. Something has to change. Then that's when things started to really take a turn for the better. So I do want to give you credit, though, like maybe your therapist opened the door or like answered the question, but you came with the question and you were ready to receive the answer.
00:20:45
Speaker
That's not passive. That's receptive. ha ha ma like She's like, Rose, you know, you're the one who put in the work. I was there for you, but you are the one who did the work.
00:20:56
Speaker
And just a reminder that like you can love your family, but you also have to understand they're coming from similar wounds and they haven't been able to do the work that you have. And so accepting those limitations of others, right? You can love them, but you could also love them from a distance. And that's it's healthy and app acceptable.
00:21:13
Speaker
These are the things that we have to start to apply to the dating world. And it can feel so scary at first because it feels antithetical to the nature we've had to develop in like our modern post-industrial, you know, hyper-capitalist world, which is like hyper. And also I want see in media. Like I grew up with American movies that show a very distorted reality because like you don't know when you're a kid that all of the movies are written by guy writers that are enacting their fantasies on the world.
00:21:40
Speaker
Right. You don't understand that. And you think that's reality. I also want to not correct, but like make something more accurate. Because you said that when I was basically applying a standard to the guy that I'm dating, you said like, if it doesn't happen by this and this, it's not going to happen.
00:21:58
Speaker
You know what's even deeper than that? I presented it as if it doesn't happen by this time, my peace levels go down.
00:22:07
Speaker
And that was so meaningful for me to get to a place where I am coming from the knowing, rooted knowing,
00:22:17
Speaker
that my peace is important to him. This is how I'm engaging in the conversation to begin with. This is like my working principle is you care about my well-being.
00:22:28
Speaker
So because you care, I'm going to tell you how to make me happy. thee And then let's see if you do it. It's not even an ultimatum. It's just like I literally said my peace levels go down if I don't know what I'm doing like on the weekend by Wednesday or Thursday morning. That wasn't necessarily corrective. That's even more profound. You're absolutely right.
00:22:46
Speaker
For me, it was really, really profound because I think earlier in life, when like interactions with dating or relationships made me feel bad, like my imagined conversations with the person always had like him rebuting, oh, but why do i have to do that?
00:23:00
Speaker
Or who says that i owe you that? And it's hard to stand your ground when you when you see you and the person next to you or the person in front of you as rivals.
00:23:10
Speaker
But when you look at that, when you assume, carefully assume that you're on the same team, then you can come with goodwill. And then you see if they perform accordingly. If not, that's your answer.
00:23:22
Speaker
But it's scarier that way. It's much scarier than, for instance, if I work within this example, if I be like, okay, I want to know what I'm doing. So I'm going to tell them, hey, you want to do da-da-da-da-da. But I'm not going to do that, of course, because I'm an FTSer.
00:23:37
Speaker
I think the reason it feels scarier is because it's more honest. It's meeting reality. It is meeting reality. I think a lot of times with these games, you know, people are playing them because they think that's what they're supposed to do, but it's an empty script. It has no meaning to them. They're just kind of, you know, going through the mobile. Yes. Right. And that has a distancing effect that has a protective measure. Right.
00:24:00
Speaker
in play. And that's all well and good if you're just looking for superficial relationships. But if you're looking for something profound and intimate, you have to give yourself the grace to accept that some of these moves can be really scary and they can feel really unnatural because you're actually allowing your heart to be seen.
Strategies Rooted in Self-Worth
00:24:18
Speaker
So true. And I would also add, it's not only a protective mechanism in front of somebody else, it's a protective mechanism from yourself. You're creating distance from yourself because you're doing something like you said so beautifully.
00:24:30
Speaker
You're performing on an empty script. You don't really understand why you're doing it and creates a distance between you and yourself. You're not in your own experience. It just sucks to live life like It does. And I think this is the next point that Patricia had wanted us to go over. I think it flows into it really well, which is you know, one of the reasons why this is so important is because If you're the one being the active partner or the one who is, you know, setting all the plans and doing all the labor, it often is much easier for men to just go with the flow. This is central, central, central FDS point and really, really important to understand.
00:25:08
Speaker
This is a systemic, rooted, natural or societal difference between men and women. It's easy. Like, ask your guy friends. So I'm going to start with the flat rule.
00:25:20
Speaker
Don't initiate the second date. I'm going to say second date because I feel like sometimes in polite society, men are too shy to initiate the first date. So I think asking a guy out, I think is fine.
00:25:32
Speaker
But then he should set the time. He should set the place. He should ask to see her again. He should text the day after. Not because we're living in the 50s, but because, important, it's easier for men to go with the flow. It's easier for men to acquiesce.
00:25:47
Speaker
You can look at it in different ways. One way or the bluntest way, they don't have that much access to pussy. That's one. Second, it doesn't cost them as much. Third thing is...
00:25:58
Speaker
They're a bit easier to kind of like convince, to acquiesce. It's a lot of things and you can ask your guy friends. Like I'm going to give an example. I had a guy friend that told me that he was dating somebody, but it didn't work out. Oh, we were roommates at the time. So we would talk a lot.
00:26:12
Speaker
He was dating somebody, but it didn't work out. And he said that from the get-go, there was something about her physically that really put him off. And he knew from the get-go, it's not going to work out.
00:26:23
Speaker
Because of that, because the attraction wasn't fully there. But, but, at first, the novelty and the excitement of the beginning was enough to compensate for that. But eventually, after like two, three dates, reality was still there, that there was this thing about...
00:26:38
Speaker
her, her grooming that was really off-putting for him. Like he doesn't like it. That's fair, I think. But this is a really, really good example that he could get access to a woman, like time, energy, body. And he was like, yeah, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Why not? I've got nothing better to do. And some men will ride this all the way to fucking marriages. They will get married to women because there's no better option. But she's there and she's driving the boat, you know. And this is something Lisa from XY Edit. We had her on our show before.
00:27:13
Speaker
I still listen to her. I find her so interesting. Like she explains things from like a very... sociobiological perspective that is very helpful for me to understand. One of the things she mentioned was like, you know, because of patriarchy, men have been inculcated with the notion that there is a pecking order and that there's always an alpha male who will lead them.
00:27:34
Speaker
They are used to being followers, even in their friend groups. There's like the one guy who is the grand Pumbaa and then they're all like his little minions. And they're comfortable with that because that's what's been modeled to them from the jump.
00:27:45
Speaker
Right. The father's the head of the household. He's the big lion. And if they want to become one themselves, they have to move out like they can't exist in the same environment. And so men have this natural or I guess unnaturally, it's become a paradigm for them that there's always got to be somebody who leads the way, who's the alpha. They love this shit.
00:28:06
Speaker
And women were more collaborative. It's a sort of a level playing field. And so if you are coming in as the alpha, we're going to do this. I want to do that. Don't come with this, blah, blah, blah.
00:28:19
Speaker
He is going to obey because it has now been inculcated into him. Now it's his natural instinct. and But you'll never actually know if that's what he wants or not. He's just going along with it because that's what he's been trained to do. You know, like a puppy who has its master.
00:28:33
Speaker
And if you don't understand that mentality from them, you could just be like, oh, of course, he's really happy to be with me. where We're getting along so well. He's always happy to go on dates and la la la. He doesn't text me that much, but he always responds when I do. Oh, do you see? makes me shrivel from the inside.
00:28:50
Speaker
I know, I know. You're like, you're thinking. Been there, been there. Right, we've all been there. And you're thinking you're having a successful relationship because he always shows up, but it's the bare minimum. And that's why FDF is always like, we will not accept the bare minimum. And so if you have this idea that like, you have to be pushing everything forward, at clarifying what are we, asking for exclusivity, all of these things, you'll never actually know where he's at because he is simply going along with the flow.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah. And let me tell you this in a very, very simple, strategic way. If after the first date, it takes him forever to ask you out or you're thinking like, when is he to ask me out? Why is he not asking me out? Like you're texting, but he's kind of talking about nothing. And you're like, you're like texting your friends. he's like, oh, he sent me this and you sent him a screenshot. And you're like, oh, but easy why is he asking out?
00:29:37
Speaker
He is not asking you out because he's not asking you out. This is your answer. Receive it from the universe and compile this information in a way that you see fit.
00:29:48
Speaker
But this is your answer. The answer is not to ask him on a second date. Because if he wants to see you again, he will let you know. He will be there. He will come and pick you up. He will come to your city. He will move to your country.
00:30:01
Speaker
Okay? Okay. This is true. i actually have various friends from my graduate program. All of their men moved, some from France, some from the Deep South. All of them ended up moving to a northern city, some thousands of miles away, to be with their now wives.
00:30:17
Speaker
And this is something else I've read a lot on Reddit and in various, like, where you crowdsource, where you're reading what people respond. And one of the things I've seen again and again and again, I've seen it so much I can't help but believe that it's true, is that they're always like men will know within the first two, three months, maybe max six months, if she's the one.
00:30:37
Speaker
Now, they might be your forever boyfriend for eight years, but they know very early on whether you're the one that they want to be loyal to. And you will see his behavior accordingly.
00:30:49
Speaker
Sometimes I've had a hard time with this myself. So listeners, please understand, like, this has been my own journey. It's been very hard for me to grasp. And sometimes if there's not an answer, that is also an answer.
Communicating through Actions and Internalizing Self-Worth
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's hard, but it's true. Please continue. This is really interesting. Well, I just think this is something that, you know, as somebody who has always been very like concrete and literal, and I've always said what I meant and meant what I said.
00:31:15
Speaker
When I got into the dating world, it was so confusing because it just seemed like nobody was doing what they said they were going to do, or they would say something and do another. And I just couldn't like decode it you know? And one thing that was, I think the hardest lesson for me was like, no answer is an answer.
00:31:33
Speaker
The absence of something is the actuality of a thing. That is very, very true. That is very, very true. And this leads actually really nicely to one of the next points is that if you feel bad, that is valuable information.
00:31:53
Speaker
Act on that information. However, the acting, like both parts of the centrums are in a way revolutionary. First is honor your emotions.
00:32:04
Speaker
Something, an interaction or a person makes you feel bad. really bad, it hurts your feelings, it makes you pissed off, it leaves you wandering, it makes you insecure, that is valuable information.
00:32:17
Speaker
Do something with it. But the thing that you're doing is and a little little them
00:32:25
Speaker
Withdrawing your attention. oh Withdrawing your presence. There are caveats to what I'm going to say because this is very harsh, but men don't understand words. They understand actions and they understand the repercussions for their actions.
00:32:45
Speaker
The worst thing you can do to a man, the the strongest message is to not text him back. Disappear. Don't answer his calls. He wants to see you. You don't want to see him. This like the withdrawal of your attention.
00:32:58
Speaker
It's not just like giving the cold shoulder. This is like an act of war. Like really this speaks volumes. And you do that as a retaliation.
00:33:09
Speaker
You hurt my feelings. i am now retaliating by not sending you a really long text message that you need to press on read more to read. but on not writing you at all.
00:33:22
Speaker
And you're going to miss me. and You're going to be wondering where I am you're going to text me in two weeks. And you know what? I'm still not going to respond. And not because I'm playing game, but because you hurt my feelings. And this is the way that I'm responding.
00:33:34
Speaker
I'm responding by withdrawing from you the thing that is most important for you, which is my female presence. And this is, I think, also grounded in a reality that you have to embody, which is your presence is fucking magical.
00:33:49
Speaker
And maybe you don't believe it because society has told you otherwise and men have treated you poorly. And you're like, well, I can't be that great if all these men have just like passed me over or abused me or ignored me. That's on them.
00:34:00
Speaker
Funny how they always end up coming back, though, huh? So take that data and understand that gold is nothing compared to the warmth of your face, the gaze from your eyes, like literally the aura, the aura around you is fucking magical to these men. It's mana. They cannot get enough.
00:34:20
Speaker
If you remove it because he has not honored it, nothing will speak louder. Precisely. Words are meaningless. In this sense, the only thing that will actually get across what happens to you is the fact that you remove yourself entirely from his sphere.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, I will say, first of all, that was really well said. And all of this is very, very true for serious cases. Like if your feelings got hurt, if somebody disrespected you, if you told somebody something, something that was important for you twice, twice,
00:34:53
Speaker
like once, twice, thrice, if you're in a relationship and this is like a recurring topic and he's still doing it, this is bad. This is for like really bad things. But this is the caveat to what I said. I do feel like I need to add this because otherwise I feel like it can create some psychological damage.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's not that men don't understand words at all. If men don't understand words at all, then it's pretty difficult to have a relationship with them, right? Because ideally you want to talk to the person that you're in a relationship with or dating.
00:35:21
Speaker
So I will say this is not for all cases. Like if this is like, if there are small things, yes, say something. Of course, this goes back to what we discussed earlier. Don't lead, but yes, you can direct. Of course, that is like what innately comes for us as women, I think.
00:35:37
Speaker
Like, All of this is about leaning back, leaning back into our nature. Like what I mean by this is like, I know that I am relational by nature.
00:35:49
Speaker
I think about relationships. I notice like small things. I notice communication patterns. and I notice when people open up. I notice when people close off. And this is something that's natural for me. I don't need to turn it off.
00:36:01
Speaker
On the contrary, this is a strength. This is an important strength. And we're not saying shut yourself off. This is really not what we're saying. No, by no means. No, absolutely.
00:36:14
Speaker
And this is ultimately, i'm going to read one of the last things that Patricia wrote when she was talking about suggestions. If you don't mind, Patricia, can I just like quote you? I'm honored, of course. Okay. So she says, actually, the core truth that we must internalize to shift the mindset is to understand the value of your mere presence and energy. And she goes on,
00:36:33
Speaker
We should also touch on how, quote unquote, playing games should not cost you energy, whether it's mental, emotional, it should not cause you to suffer. But ideally, it stems from an internal self-regulation and groundedness.
00:36:47
Speaker
OK, she goes on to say, however, you can fake it till you make it for a bit if you understand the logic and then you'll see the effects. Ultimately, everything that we're talking about, all these rules that, you know, these hard and fast rules that FDS put into play, it's not because it's a game. It's because it has to be rooted in your own self-value and your own self-worth. If you don't value yourself, then this is ah as clear as day to these men who are out there trying to play those games, right? You're exactly who they're looking for. That's a predator-prey mentality, and they thrive in that. But if you understand that you are somebody who is worthwhile, that you are, you know, a unique child of the cosmos, no one has ever existed like you before. No one ever will. It's such an amazing, marvelous thing to think about.
00:37:37
Speaker
But until you sort of internalize this notion of how important you really are, Dating is just going to be one minefield after another. And that's why these rules, these quote unquote tips for dating have been implemented so that until you get to that point within yourself, these are sort of measures to protect yourself.
00:37:55
Speaker
That was so well said. Music to my ears and not, I don't mean only the part where you were quoting me, that was really flattering, but also everything you said. Unique child of the cosmos, like, no, you're the best at being yourself. but You said it so well. That was so beautiful.
00:38:10
Speaker
I mean, it's amazing when you think about like what has had to come in the history of the entire history of of womankind. However many billions of people have ever existed, and yet you are still unique amongst trillions.
00:38:23
Speaker
It really is something to to make one marvel. And i have to remind myself that, too. I'm always like, um mean whatever I start to get down on myself, I'm my girl like, girl, you are a product of millennia of evolution.
00:38:34
Speaker
And here you are in this wonderful world today. And we're not going to waste our time on you know, these piddling notions of, oh, I've got cellulite or all my stretch marks or, you know, all of these things that like marketing is trying to convince you, make you less of a what of a worthy individual. But we know better and we want you to know better as well. And so that's why these sort of rules exist. It's not because it's some game that we're playing. It's because until you can get to that deeper understanding and appreciation of yourself, these are things that will make sure that The low value or no value men or the fuck boys are kept away.
Intersection of Feminism and Dating
00:39:11
Speaker
It's there to protect your own energy so that you can actually find someone who values you for who you are. Yeah, that is really true. And also want to add that sometimes our behavior dictates what kind of dynamic will be created.
00:39:24
Speaker
Like also, we don't know when we meet somebody what kind of value he has. okay I'm going to step into parentheses for a second and establish this definition that we're using, which is low value, negative value, high value, man.
00:39:40
Speaker
In all of FDS context, and this was also like said in the Reddit many, many times and also on the podcast, the value is the value that it adds to you. If you think back about leveling up is to create a baseline for yourself that is like you have a good life.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yes, you want to be in a relationship. Like we are female dating strategy. We're not separatists. But you are happy on your own. And then from there, a man can add value to your life.
00:40:10
Speaker
I'm just going to throw out like two opposite examples. If you're like a really high earner and your job is really busy, you're super focused on your career and you're like a huge hot shot.
00:40:21
Speaker
And what you want is somebody to... share your time with and for him to take care of your house and put gas in your car, that really based queen judge that was on the on the show.
00:40:34
Speaker
If that's the kind of value that you want to add to your life, that man should add value to your life. Your life should be better with him than without him. Simply put, it can also be like, if you want to be a housewife, if you want to sit at home and, I don't know, your nails or write in your journal and for somebody else to make the money,
00:40:53
Speaker
Up to you if you want to do that. Feminism means i don't have a say about it because you're individual and you can do whatever you want, even though you're a woman.
00:41:04
Speaker
I just gotta say, like my brother asked me like a few months ago ago, what do I think about like Sydney Sweeney walking around with like a very revealing dress, and how does that compile to my feministic view? I was like, I'm a feminist, and that means she can do whatever she wants. It means jack-all to me. you can be walking around naked.
00:41:25
Speaker
I don't care. I don't get to say what she needs or needn't do because she's a woman. That's what the feminism is. it was like, huh, interesting.
00:41:38
Speaker
Tell me more. That's fantastic. Yeah, he's a kind soul.
00:41:45
Speaker
That's what's so alien to men. And it's why they often so speak so derogatorily towards feminism is because, you know, it's always been a patronage system. It's always been a vassal system when it comes to. The term has been hijacked. I never call myself a feminist outside of FDS because the term has been hijacked.
00:42:03
Speaker
Which is always a classic PSYOP. That's a classical psychological maneuver, you know, to undermine and to disperse forces that are gathering collectively that actually present a threat to the existing power structure. Okay.
00:42:17
Speaker
I mean, I remember growing up, my father was obsessed with Rush Limbaugh. I cannot tell you how many hundreds of hours I had to listen to Rush Limbaugh in the car. I couldn't walk. to What? Rush Limbaugh was like the early Alex Jones, Trump, like all of this is. Oh, God.
00:42:34
Speaker
yes he was like i know it was awful but that's why i understand so much of the mentality because i just had to listen to everything and when you're in a car way you know and i'll never forget when he started to call women feminazis and i was like wow as a teenage girl i was like wow that sounds terrible like what could be worse than a feminazi well oh my god nazis are bad feminazis wow it's even more than worse yeah
00:43:03
Speaker
ah That's my language. I was like, I got to get a handle on what things mean because I really saw the power of of how words can twist and and pervert, you know, things that are actually quite healthy and good, right? But in any case, having to hear this when I was very young made me realize like, oh, this is how they get you and this is how they convince you that there's no merit to anyone else's argument. Like...
00:43:24
Speaker
They're a Nazi, so it has to be bad. So i where was I going with this? i don't know if there's an actual point, but I think the whole point is like, listen, we have to understand that a lot of people misunderstand what feminism is about, a lot of men especially. And this is what happened. And this is why FDS subreddit got brigaded and shut down was because men were so mad, incels especially, at how powerful our message is and how much it puts the value back onto yourself and your own world. If he cannot contribute to that,
00:43:53
Speaker
He is not allowed into your world. And there is nothing they want more than access to women they don't deserve. Yeah.
Community Engagement and Defining Value in Dating
00:44:00
Speaker
They were like, what? We need to be attractive to women? This is bullshit. Burn them. Burn them.
00:44:07
Speaker
We need to wash our face? What? What? So I'm going to go back to my parentheses and then I have like a more, I guess, deeper message.
00:44:18
Speaker
So to finish the parentheses, basically when we're talking about zero value, negative value and high value men, it's what the value that they add to you. One woman cannot assign a value for somebody else's man.
00:44:32
Speaker
Right. This is what we're trying to say. I'm like a good example of a negative value man. Oh, I forgot the name. Like Savannah, they did a really nice episode about like the Russian Tsar family that like was the end of the Tsarism.
00:44:44
Speaker
And then like the whole family was killed. And so they were like, he's a negative value man. ah All the women that were associated with him lost their fucking lives.
00:44:56
Speaker
Same with Marie Antoinette. Why is Marie Antoinette the villain when it was her husband who was the king who got their entire family killed? Do you want to do an episode about that? Because I don't know a lot about that. Actually, that might be really good episode. Huh.
00:45:09
Speaker
We'll think about that. We'll put a bookmark in that. Actually, right in the responses, right in the notes, we've been reading everything that you guys um respond to. We don't know what's going on with the FDS forum. Quick aside, we don't know what's going on with the FDS forum right now. It's not shut down. i think it's just kind of inert right now because nobody's taking it over to be...
00:45:26
Speaker
you know, overseeing it. I don't know if that's something we're going to get to. Maybe we can. But again, like this is us rebooting FDS right now. our Our sole priority is making sure we're getting these episodes out to you every other week and making sure the content. Yeah. And it's a bit challenging at the moment because it's like I'm also like lately coming back to work after my rehabilitation. But if the form is important to you and that's something that's like missing for you, like write us in the comments and we will put that at high priority if it's important for you.
00:45:52
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. So please let us know. Okay, so the parentheses is concluded and you're now you're going to get back. The parentheses is concluded. And what I want to say, like the deeper thing that I want to say here is that like, life does not come with instructions. And it's like, like, when you meet somebody, they don't have a label on them that says low value, high value, or whatever, you can't know.
00:46:11
Speaker
And that's the thing, like on its face, you employ some kind of strategy, but on a deeper way, you become somebody who's discerning, who's self-respecting and who respects herself enough to ask when she needs something and to also listen when reality is telling her, hey, this person is not acting in goodwill and he actually does not want to bestow you this request or he's not asking you on a second date.
00:46:39
Speaker
He's not doing the nice thing that you asked him to do. You got your answer. So what I'm trying to say in so many words is that sometimes by acting in a way that respects yourself, you can't invoke a high value treatment. But you don't know that until you try.
00:46:57
Speaker
But even if you try and you don't quote unquote succeed, I'm saying this in quotes because getting, but it's more than try, try again. You have practiced being the person that you want to be.
00:47:11
Speaker
You are living inside of the skin of the person that you respect, that you like, that stands up for themselves.
Empowerment and Self-Respect in Dating
00:47:22
Speaker
That is so much more valuable than if the current guy that you're dating is the person that you end up in a serious relationship or not. And if not, it's not on you. This like ties everything together because this is exactly what you said in the beginning.
00:47:36
Speaker
It's not on you because it didn't work out. He was not emotionally available or this was not the right timing or actually you thought he was high value, but turned out he's not. Turned out his values are not in place.
00:47:49
Speaker
Turns out he's not who you thought you were and maybe your feelings got hurt, but that's okay. It's okay. It's part of it. oh it's So well said. I just want us to like, understand that this is literally revolutionary thinking and revolutionary behavior. We have not seen in the modern era, any period where women have been able to exercise such freedom of will and of self and you coming to grips with the fact that like you are the captain of your own destiny.
00:48:19
Speaker
There's nothing more powerful than that. Like governments fall under such beliefs. Yeah. Empires topple. And so when you apply this to even the smallest thing, like where your date is going to be and what he does to make sure a date happens, all of this adds up cumulatively to a revolutionary movement by the part of women. And I'm here for it.
00:48:39
Speaker
Well said. And also, one more thing, it's a lot more fun to date like this. It's just a lot more fun. It feels better if you don't think about, ooh, is he going to actually make it happen?
00:48:51
Speaker
Is he actually going to ask me? And you're just like approaching this with like, Yeah, I asked him out, but I kept it ambiguous. And now it's up to him. And I'm going to see through his actions how much he likes me and how serious he is about me.
00:49:05
Speaker
I wonder if he's going to text me about next week already this week, or I wonder when he's going to text me. And then when he texts you on Friday to make a ah plan for next week, you're like, oh ah think he likes me.
00:49:18
Speaker
It's a lot more fun because you're a lot more secure. You're so much more secure in yourself that way. You're letting him lead the way. You're actually making him put the effort. And I also want to connect to what you're saying. And this is maybe like closing remarks for real, that I feel like this is just a huge privilege.
00:49:35
Speaker
Like I feel privileged and based on saying, I want it all I want it all. i want a comfortable life. I'm like not rich or not trying to be rich or anything, but like I have a satisfying career and I have a nice house and I have a nice cat and my health is intact. Thank God I have good relationships. I have like good relationships with a family and I have amazing friends.
00:49:57
Speaker
And on top of all of this, I also want a healthy romantic relationship. It doesn't need to fulfill all of my needs, but this is such a privileged and amazing place from which to approach reality. And I really connect to what you were saying because like we have come to to a point in time where women don't need men.
00:50:18
Speaker
We don't need romantic relationships, but we still want them. And we are choosing to engage with that in a very discerning, self-respectful way and see what happens.
00:50:30
Speaker
Let's see what happens. Let's go out there and experiment, Queens. Yes. I think those were closing remarks. I can't say it better, Patricia. Thank you so much. This was really funny. so Thank you all for listening. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you in another two weeks.
00:50:46
Speaker
We will see you in two weeks. And if any scrubs are listening, step up and die mad. Die mad. Until the next time. bye Patricia. i kind of feel like I also want to, like, since we're, like, bringing everybody into FDS and, like, we're supposedly starting a conversation on you, why do we say die mad?
00:51:04
Speaker
Sorry, I'm getting like self-philosophical, but I'm going to say like if scrotes be mad, what are scrotes? Scrotes are really low value men. Scrotes are basically men that the entirety of their value is as good as their scrotum sack.
00:51:20
Speaker
Like, that's pretty fucking bad. For me, it's men who hate women. That's what a scrote is. And the world is teeming with them. That's exactly it. And that's exactly the kind of men who would call women semi-Nazis or the kind of men who try to get like the original Reddit FDS queens dead.
00:51:38
Speaker
Ban. Or worse. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they were getting death threats daily. And like the reason that we're saying scrotes die mad is like scrotes be mad because they cannot get access to us, to female energy and presence.
00:51:54
Speaker
And you know what's going to happen with them? They're going to stay alone and they're going to stay mad and they're going to die mad. This is why we say this. And this is their fate. And this is their self-directed fate. They could change that at any moment in time, but they don't because that's how much they'd rather hate women.
00:52:09
Speaker
And we're not about that way. Exactly. So they get selected out of the gene pool. That's right. So they get to die mad. And we'll always remind them of that at end of every episode while we live well. ah Like the queens that we are.
00:52:22
Speaker
Okay, Patricia, thanks for that clarification. Talk to you soon. Cheers.
Clarification of 'Die Mad' Phrase
00:52:27
Speaker
Bye.