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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - Illinois & Indiana
121 Plays3 years ago
The summer road trip continues tonight with Illinois & Indiana
Indiana is up first (3:12 - 50:14) where Lisa takes us on the twisted path of Darren Deon Vann and life he lived along with the lives he took.
Illinois is last (50:24 - 1:31:19) where we go into the "Gin, Guns & Glamour" of 1920's Chicago to hear the tale of Terrible Tommy O'Connor
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Transcript
Introduction and Snake Stories
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, good evening, everybody. Or morning, afternoon, whenever. Time of day. You try to watch. Listen, there's never a watch. Why do I always say that? OK. Sorry.
00:00:15
Speaker
Yeah, I got nothing for you. This is Twisted Tales. This is why you don't ever get to introduce the podcast. This is why you interrupt me all the time. It's your like, oh, here's my special friend, Lisa. And I'm Faith, and we appreciate you tuning in. Yeah. We're gonna do some Twisted Tales tonight, but before we get started, we're gonna explain Twisted Tales.
00:00:36
Speaker
in a different manner Faith had an experience with a twisted tail. It was a death trap. It was not a death trap. It was a death trap. It was a mediocre sized snake. It was not mediocre. It was mediocre. You said it was a huge snake. Okay it was pretty big. It was a huge snake. Guys like listen for real it was in her like kitchen. I was lurking
Life Interruptions and Podcast Challenges
00:01:01
Speaker
at home and it stared me down for 22 minutes
00:01:05
Speaker
block dies on me and I cannot explain to you the depth of fear I have for any outdoor creatures. I believe we've hit on that, but snakes in particular. All right. So before we get into this story, I'm going to go ahead and tell you was a rat snake, but it was like an absurdly large. It was an anaconda for anaconda of east to the sea was in my house. And if you doubt me, you can go to our Instagram or our Facebook. There are links in the show notes.
00:01:33
Speaker
And you can see this big a snake that basically stared at me sticking its pork tongue out to see if I would be tasty. It was it was it was going to kill her guys. This this this that are me tripping over my feet in the coffee that's dripping from my ceiling to try to get away. Anyway, so we're recording right before we drop right before we drop because we're daily. Yeah. OK, so sometimes life sort of takes turns where like you're an adult and you have to be busy, right?
00:02:02
Speaker
Uh, so that's kind of where we're at right now. That is not what happened. We procrastinated and changed stories 500 times. I hadn't slept in three days. I was tired. The power kept going out. And I have a snake infestation. Yes, you have a snake infestation. And so sometimes again, life throws your curve ball and you're like,
00:02:23
Speaker
I could I can I can do a quickie not like that quickie okay and we're not editing yeah oh snap yeah we are we are not editing tonight because it's 8 45 on a Thursday and we should have dropped hours ago so we're recording to be able like
00:02:39
Speaker
and hitting the button. So you get what you get and you don't throw a fit, as my kindergartner would say. Absolutely. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Dang it. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Dang it. You
Indiana's Dark History
00:02:57
Speaker
know, I wish anybody could actually visually see when we play rock, paper, scissors and the faces that we make at each other. It's kind of ridiculous.
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay, so y'all give me two seconds. I'm gonna pull my my story up here and I got good old Indian all right now um guys Anybody from Indiana? I just want to go ahead and tell you That there was a lot Congratulations if you're still alive
00:03:28
Speaker
What does that even mean? Because there's a lot of you told me all the cereal killer. Oh, that's true. Yeah, like for real good law Yeah, congratulations if you're still alive because I kind of messed up to say but I know I felt really bad kind of amazing I didn't mean it right yeah, so you know if it's not a bear or something yeah attacking you yeah, yeah and the will be and the
00:03:52
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Indiana. There's, yeah, crazy people that you have to compete with too, right? It's all a contending against something or another, right? Everything wants you to die. Everything wants you to die. Basically live in Australia now. No.
00:04:05
Speaker
All their animals are moving. Ew, dude. No, no. If I ever saw a spider in the size of a dinner plate, I'm pretty sure I would crap on myself and then just- I would swim. You can't because of the shorts. The octopus, it'll kill you. Dang it. I would get in a bunker and never leave. I would be a hermit that ordered everything and just sat on my couch and weighed 800 pounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of night things that'll get at you. Either way, I want you to sleep tonight. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana. Indiana.
Darren Dion Fayette's Criminal Journey
00:04:35
Speaker
So guys, it took me a minute to try to figure out what I wanted to do. Again, there was a lot to choose from. But every story that I looked into, I was literally like, oh, my gosh, I could do like a whole hour on this. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I didn't want it to be part of our summer road trip. Yeah. Summer road trip. OK, mine was really lame. I'm sorry. I was excited.
00:05:01
Speaker
Also, it is exactly 8.57, and I should have been in bed like an hour ago. I'm over 30. All right, so I decided to do my story on Darren Dion Fayette. So, he was born on March 21st, 1971.
00:05:23
Speaker
Uh, there's not a whole lot known about his childhood, but from what I understand, um, he moved around a lot and in 1991 he joined the military. So there's a huge gap there. Okay. Yeah. There was like nothing about his like childhood or whatever. Like, you know, we always talk about what it could have been. Yeah. But if you got in the military, he had to pass some kind of eval. Well, yeah.
00:05:48
Speaker
But I mean, you know, it's not like people don't lie. Right. Either way, he joined the military in 1991. And it wasn't the military. Actually, it was more specific than that. It was the Marine Corps. No one can see your finger quotes. Stop. They were for you. They were for you.
00:06:08
Speaker
I don't want your finger quotes either. Yeah. OK. You remember Joey from like fucking. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. We're not home up whenever. Yeah. OK. That was what his Marine Corps really should not have been in quotes at that moment. OK. I just threw him up like Joey style. Right. And that's it. Shut up.
00:06:32
Speaker
guys I'm sorry this is gonna be a train wreck um bear with me I do my best and my best is never good enough for faith so yeah anyways uh he was eventually um
00:06:48
Speaker
Unhonorably discharged in 1993. Is that like dishonorably discharged? That's the thing that I like watched and read said unhonorably discharged. So like I would assume it's made a motto. Yeah. I don't know. Chill. Like you're really making a big deal out of nothing. I'm just asking your face. Anywho.
00:07:11
Speaker
At age 24, he married a woman named Maria. Maria was 30 years older than him. Like his mama. Like his grandmother.
00:07:27
Speaker
Wowza. Okay, look, I'm not gonna base judgment upon anyone who wants to date outside of their age range. Yeah, it's not my business. As long as they're both over 18 and that it's fine. Yeah, concur. Agree.
00:07:45
Speaker
Alright, anyway, so he married this woman who was 30 years his senior. So, yeah, married a woman. Her son was, I'm sorry, Maria's son was Darren's age, Darren Van. Wolf. So, Darren was 24. Her son was pretty dang close to
00:08:09
Speaker
before, right? I did. I'm gonna go on a wild guess here. Her son did not approve of his new daddy. Really?
00:08:19
Speaker
Is that the truth? Are you sure? Are you sure about that? Did he call him daddy? I don't think so. Dude, dude. Really? Really? Did he call him daddy? Did you call me daddy? We're not editing. Come on, dude. You started it. You act like my mind isn't going to go there. Sorry. Why are we related? OK. We're a bunch of mud. What? Mud people.
00:08:48
Speaker
Alright, I'm guys inside joke super quick doesn't matter her brother called her brother Faith's brother. Yeah, who married my brother My brother did not marry her brother. I married her brother I suck and my brother-in-law saved me from the anaconda that was attacking me as not anaconda
00:09:08
Speaker
but he did not kill said snake he put it in a in a in a huge glass like aquarium at his house that has like a snap lid which is still not safe in my opinion and my husband wanted to go see the said snake that was in our house so they proceeded to tap on the glass and yell at the snake
00:09:28
Speaker
like toddlers in a zoo. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, toddler. OK, it was like a goldfish kind of scenario. Like the little girl in Finding Nemo when she's like, fishy. So they're doing that to the snake and the snake obviously stuck to glass. So not like that. And then her brother said that all of us. OK, I wasn't even there. My sister-in-law asked why the snake was still alive when I said it'd be in Rehouse. And my brother said to kill snakes.
00:09:56
Speaker
Because the state of Tennessee, the mud people are poking the glass watching it anyway. We are not editing. So let's continue on with Indiana and my best van. You can't tell me stuff like that right before the podcast and expect me to never say I told you that three hours ago, bro. I don't know. What do you want from me? Guys, if you go on to our Instagram or Facebook,
00:10:23
Speaker
Uh, even tick-tock really. I don't know that tick-tock was under my name. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, we don't, we don't give out actual names, but um, she, she was, uh, trying to re re create the, um,
00:10:40
Speaker
Resumes that she wanted because because I was in a meeting guys I'm meeting at my work while I was being attacked by all tomorrow. She was not being attacked 19 It was looking at you for 22 minutes, bro. What do you want me to do? It was my job If that's what it takes to save my life, yeah, I'm fine with that. You know pay my bills. No, that's
00:11:08
Speaker
Now, we both have an arrangement, okay? There was no logic. No, it's a rule. It is a rule that if you call me three times, I know at that moment, it's an emergency. I wasn't thinking logically. She called me once. Because I was hyperventilating on top of my couch with coffee dripping on my head. You know what, yeah, okay, first of all. Dared Don Von Heilsing.
00:11:31
Speaker
And else thing we're talking vampires now guys things have gotten a little off topic his last name is then Forgot it a little bit All right, so all right eighty-year-old Mary Yeah steps on hit his face yeah same age I
00:11:56
Speaker
So much so, he admitted that not only did he not trust this guy, right? He wouldn't even let him into his house. Didn't want him around as kids. Didn't want him around like nothing. Nothing. He just literally had that gut feeling. And we've all been there. OK. When you meet somebody and you're just kind of like something doesn't settle. Right. Right. You like you just have that innate you factor you. Yep.
00:12:23
Speaker
Don't look at me like that, I am not you! You're literally, you're... I hate you. Alright, guys, I'm gonna keep going with my story, because clearly, Faith is on something right now, and she's taking over my hostility for the evening. I'm gonna continue my story. Uh, yeah. So, good old Darren, at this point, was living in Austin, Texas.
00:12:50
Speaker
He lost his job at a temp agency, and he and Marie, his wife, at the time- I thought you said her name was Mary. No, you said Maria, because I said Maria. Yes. Okay, I'm back. But it's Marie. I'm back on track. Like M-A-R-I-E. Marie. I got it. Okay. I'm back on track. Continue. Cool. You have my permission. No, thank you. I needed that, because when you look at me like that- We're not editing. It's too much. This is too much?
00:13:19
Speaker
Guys, I'm sorry, but sometimes when I look at Faith and she gives me a certain look, it means I need to be reeled back in. Marie, they both decided to go move to Austin, Texas, right? Good deal. No, I lied. They were already in Austin, Texas. And they moved to Gary, India. And that apparently was where Mr. Van was born. Yeah. Yeah. Again, Indiana.
00:13:48
Speaker
So sorry. Yeah. So he actually began cheating on his wife after moving back to Indiana in 2004, he got arrested. I'm going to I'm sorry. You guys can't hear as I smack Faith's shoulder because this is one of those points where I'm like, really, really right now. OK, cool. So he got arrested and convicted or class D felony for holding his girlfriend hostage with a can of gasoline and a lighter.
00:14:19
Speaker
Silence is that not like Attempted murder like what what was his excuse? He was gonna have a bonfire. This is again again Yeah, she will I believe was the bonfire, right? And so guys again, this is we you have to listen to the other part I'm not laughing at them, right? I'm laughing
Justice System Reflections
00:14:40
Speaker
at the situation because our government literally is just so Sheesh
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeet. All right. So I'm going to keep going. He was convicted of a Class D felony and spent 90 days in jail. 90. Was that a blogger sentence that was maybe commuted for good behavior? That's literally all he got for trying to... Literally, that's all he got. Barbecue his girlfriend.
00:15:06
Speaker
freaking kidding literally was like nothing if they just meant nothing right you know it could have been a his word against her word you know he was just randomly standing in the doorway with a gas can and a lighter and maybe maybe maybe she just felt like she was trapped right is that how that works
00:15:26
Speaker
I know. I have no words. Yeah, nobody knows. All right. So good deal. After he was released after the whopping 90 days, 30 months. Yeah. That he he served. He was released and he went back to Austin without his wife. Oh, well, he's cheating on her. So why bring her with him? Yeah, like, except she pays for his life. Yeah, yeah, that's baggage. Right. We don't need that. Wow. We don't like drama. But.
00:15:55
Speaker
2011, she finally divorced him. Good for you. 2011. It was 2004 when he was arrested for like basically cheating on her.
00:16:07
Speaker
I have no idea. I didn't look at that. You have to speak into the microphone, Faith. I don't want. OK, I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but when she says 2011 and she's 30 years older than him, all I can see is Jim Carrey's The Grinch going, you two are still alive. Yeah. Like, really? Yeah. Anyway, sorry, it's super inappropriate. Well, it's a pretty valid question. My mind is an inappropriate place. Look, guys, we don't make fun of people.
00:16:37
Speaker
intentionally okay lies we don't make we poke jokes at stupidity okay and this to me right now is just so beyond that it's it's not all right so after he was released he went back to Austin divorced his wife in 2011 and went on an escort service where he met up with a woman when I could not find this woman's name I'm sorry
00:17:02
Speaker
But when he arrived at her apartment, whatever transpired between that time, he literally beat, raped, and attempted to strangle this woman.
00:17:14
Speaker
So attempted killing number two. I would I would agree. Yes. Because, you know, I mean, I know there's some like weird, you know, things, sadistic kind of things that like people do, whatever sadism, sadism. Yes. BDSM. That's fine. As long as it's to consenting adult consenting.
00:17:34
Speaker
Keyword. All right. So apparently not consenting for this woman. She survived. Darren was caught arrested and was sentenced to five years in prison. Oh, I know. Whopper. Right. Whopper. After. Wow. Yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
So, like, here's my question, though. Okay, so, like, government-wise, do we not take into account crimes committed in other states? Apparently not. Because I feel like to me, at this point, he's clearly, like, progressing in violence. He's tried to kill two women unsuccessfully, but he's getting better at it.
00:18:17
Speaker
As the first one he didn't you know beat and rape the second one he beat raped and tried to kill He's getting better at it. Why would we not you know? Like just throw the hammer down like the gauntlet right and be like bro
00:18:32
Speaker
And that's enough, right? But no, no, that's that's definitely not what happened in my story tonight. So, uh, yeah, five years he served and after serving those five years for rape, assault and attempted murder was released and forced to register as a sex offender. I mean, it's better than I know I signed a piece of paper and I'm like, yeah, I did this. Who reads that?
00:18:58
Speaker
I look it up. You. But how many other people are going to know within a 10 mile, five mile, two mile radius? Unless you have kids. That's different. Okay. But I mean, most people are not. If you're a single woman or anyone with children, you should look it up and know what's in your neighborhood. Actually, I had to quit looking it up because I kept telling my husband and he was trying to, you know, it's like signing a petition, like,
00:19:26
Speaker
I want speed bumps in my neighborhood. Most people don't like think about it. Yeah. Come on, man. Like it's just a piece of mail that you toss. Yeah, very much. And so here's this dude who held his girlfriend captive.
00:19:42
Speaker
OK, and not just captive, but like basically said, I'm going to set you on fire. Yeah, that's a bad way to go. Even if he didn't say it, I'm going to set you on fire. If you're holding a gas can with a lighter in your other hand, intentions were very clear. Critically, I would say. OK. Then he moves on.
00:20:03
Speaker
and obscenely abuses this woman and attempts to kill her, right? Serves us five years, signs a registry saying, quote unquote, rehabilitated, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because, you know, we can rehabilitate her murder. I don't know how that works, guys. I don't care. We can we can play an imaginary land if we really want to, like, you know,
00:20:25
Speaker
I honestly don't know what to say, Faith, and you're looking at me funny, so I'm going to keep going. So yeah, after he was released from the Texas jail, Homeboy gets up and moves back to Gary, Indiana. Can't they sign a petition to not allow him back like I would? I mean, I feel like if there were more petitions in this world, you know, like maybe
00:20:53
Speaker
Repetition to release them to the general public. Yeah, please go listen to some other podcast. It was really funny. It's number two. It was number three. The whole one. Not not funny, but like like fun in the fact that like the community literally leaving it up to the community to what you want to happen to this person. OK. And I'm not trying to say that I'm like this more morbid, weird, twisted human. But.
00:21:19
Speaker
You reap what you sow, right? You should. And this guy clearly hasn't reaped a dagum thing. OK. So he moves on back to Gary, Indiana, where he began using an escort service online called Backpage.com. All right. So I feel like these are two different escort services he's used. And yes, they're in two different places. But I feel like
00:21:49
Speaker
whatever, whatever level escort you are, there should be some like generic email, like redalert.com. Right. If you've got a patron who, you know, raped, beat and tried to kill one of your escorts, you should let other escorts know. Unless they do a background check on everybody. That's what I'm saying. They should let everybody know.
00:22:11
Speaker
Here's the deal. How many people are from like the high muckety muck, right? And how many people do it like lower, lower class, like under the books, not lower class, but like- But these are both online services. So they're a little bit above like- I could literally go online right now and make
00:22:28
Speaker
just, you know, pay like I'm just I'm just saying I get that they, you know, and I hate the term like that. Escorts are our prostitutes are high risk lifestyles. So are police officers. But police forces protect their police officers by giving them Kevlar and they have the most wanted and they have criminal databases. So I feel like feel like
00:22:53
Speaker
The people running these escort services should protect their girls and guys and do the same thing. How many people do it as like an LLC, right? Or I'm sorry, guys, that's business crap for actually legitimately pay taxes. But even people that are like under the table, they don't but they don't care. But they should. It's there. It's there. Well, OK. How many drug rings can you look at and think, oh, well, she died tonight. Well, let's just find another one. Right.
00:23:22
Speaker
I'm just saying they should take better care of their people. Fortune 500 companies. If you got fired today, you're telling me that your people wouldn't find somebody else. They may not be the same quality as you. Hell no, they will not. Everybody is replaceable. And that's the mentality. But you should still just, I'm just saying they should take better care of the girls and guys in that profession. You would have to have a moral standing. I'm just saying. I'm just saying too. I
Tommy O'Connor: A Chicago Crime Saga
00:23:49
Speaker
agree.
00:23:50
Speaker
Right, so back to Gary. Backpage.com, where he met women. In 2014, Darren met with an escort named Africa Hardy in Hammond, India. I'm not going to like where this is going. No, you're not. At some point in the evening, because there's really no backstory about what happened, because nobody's going to confess to Jack, right? Of course not. The woman who was in charge of setting up the date or export
00:24:20
Speaker
service thingy started messaging after. And she was getting really strange and kind of odd messages back that she found very suspect. Right. And so I guess those messages for Darren. I would assume more than likely. So she called one of her male friends and her and her male friends, no name that I could find.
00:24:48
Speaker
showed up at Africa's apartment. They found Africa in the bathtub strangled and dead. Of course they did. Yeah. So they called the cops and well, I mean, literally it was like a pretty legit quick response. Like this is what we saw on the Popo. And I feel like maybe there was something else going on kind of where they, because it was like an immediate
00:25:17
Speaker
Like the investigation started right then and there, but I feel like. What was the dead body? No, but I feel like they kind of already have. OK. OK. That's speculation, guys. One hundred and ten percent. OK. So they grab Africa's phone and they start like searching through her history, whatnot. And they found a number and they wound up through that number finding Gary. Mr.
00:25:49
Speaker
Uh, not soon after they found the number they tracked it. Right. We're in the 2000s now. Like we actually have some technology to find some people. Yeah. It's 2011, right? Uh, yeah. Yeah. No, 14. I'm sorry. 2014. Oh, even further. Yeah. Um, so they, they quickly arrested him. And, uh, when he was arrested at that moment was like, Hey, um, I've, I've, I've committed some other crimes. He just offered it up. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
Like literally was like, hey, there are some other dead people, right? And I could take you there if you want me to. What a great guy. How helpful. I personally think maybe he was going on some kind of like a like psychology type deal where like, oh, I'm crazy. So you can't commit me what, you know, I can't be held accountable for anything that I think it was just too stupid to know the difference.
00:26:46
Speaker
I feel like that's pretty valid. I feel like that's pretty valid. All right, so after he made that remark, he led detectives to an abandoned, to multiple abandoned homes across that area. Each house or home or apartment or whatever, there was a deceased female, all killed in the exact same way. So now we've already pretty much talked about it. We didn't rape strangled, kind of what he's been practicing. Yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
Uh, so his first court hearing was scheduled October 22nd, 2014. He neglected, uh, no wait, time out. He was found in contempt. So they rescheduled it, but I have no idea what contempt meant at that point. So like, if I were to think he was held in contempt, right? Like I've known just based on like, um,
00:27:39
Speaker
Just other, other people that I know, like for custody battles and stuff. Like if you don't show up for court, like you're held. Right. Or if you, or if you like go off on the judge or you're violent in any way, you could be held in contempt. I don't know. I didn't look it up. There was no real, like, I don't know what contempt of court means is what I mean by looking up. But I don't know what actually happened. It just said he was held in contempt. Okay.
00:28:07
Speaker
So whatever that means. All right. So after he was found in contempt of board, the next hearing was scheduled. And I say hearing because it's kind of we're going to have to keep moving. Right. Because everything gets kind of weirder from here. So I said it was the 22nd, 2014 founding intent. The next hearing was scheduled for the 28th.
00:28:36
Speaker
October 2014. He pled guilty uh but not for two of the murders. The murders that he already said that he committed and he led police to the murders and dump site. Yeah.
00:28:51
Speaker
But those weren't. Yeah, he just. It wasn't me. Wasn't me. What? They came and then they come. And then. No, apparently they didn't catch a different. A different rope, a different brand, like. No, I think I literally just. There's no. He's already admitted to it. You can't go back and be like psych. My fingers are crossed. Who is the comedian that said you can't fix stupid?
00:29:18
Speaker
Who was it? It was a comedian. I'm not to look that back up, but you can't fix stupid guys. Oh, David. All right. So pled not guilty to two of the murders. The trial was then set for July. The trial actual. OK. OK. So we've been on hearings for this point where this is what your crimes are, blah, blah, blah. Now we're going to have an actual trial.
00:29:42
Speaker
to convict you of said crimes, right? That you've already admitted to and brought police to the bodies. Correct. Making sure we're still on the same page. All right, so the trial was set for June 22nd, 2015, which is not a huge gap, right guys? Like, I mean, we really, we get things done in a very timely fashion. We started in 14, more than 15, more than a year now. Yeah, yeah. Not a timely fashion. And it wasn't like, it was October.
00:30:10
Speaker
2014 and now we are in June. Okay, so we haven't hit the earmark. Sure, sure. Their move just speedin' along. Well, yeah. I mean, that's very, that's quick. Like a jackrabbit. Anyways, so, due to arguments, uh, between the defense and the prosecution, the prosecution wanted to seek the death penalty. Yeah, he's killed a lot of people. But, here's the deal. We are now in the 2000s, right?
00:30:39
Speaker
Is the death penalty accepted, really, anymore? Yeah? Yes, yes it is. No, not so much. Most states don't quite agree with it, right? Okay. We're all so woke. Barely awoke. Sorry, I'm tired, guys. Either way, alright. So, uh, yeah. Defense and the prosecution.
00:31:09
Speaker
went back and forth. The defense won the argument to postpone the trial. So the trial was actually postponed three different times. So during that time, the prosecutors didn't just sit on their fat butts. They weren't just sitting there.
00:31:37
Speaker
just chilling, smoking cigarettes or whatever. They were actually adding on more crimes. Good for them. And so. The charges brought against them was like more of an individual. These are just stacking it up. Yeah. Good job, guys. So it included rape, attempted murder, battery by bodily waste. What? Battery by bodily waste.
00:32:06
Speaker
That's how that is that going to I've never heard of that in my life. It sounds pretty self-explanatory. But I googled it anyway. I've never literally. I know neither, but I have bodily waste, bodily waste. All right. So battery by bodily waste is a class D felony. Game off. We've heard that term before. We've we've heard that term before. How did we hear it, Faith, when he attempted to
00:32:36
Speaker
to barbecue his girlfriend. But but did he really attempt it, right? He just was holding a gas can and a lighter. Right. And lastly, felony guys, guys, guys. OK. All right. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to go through the definition of what this means. OK, it's a class D felony when a person intentionally in a rude, insolent or angry manner
00:33:02
Speaker
places blood or any other bodily fluid or waste.
00:33:07
Speaker
on a healthcare professional. So, fling and poop like a monkey while you're mad. Fling and poop like a monkey. That's, that is what that is. Yeah, and that's the exact same. Is there a respectful manner to fling your feces at other people? No. Because it said it had to be a rude, insolent, or disrespectful manner. I mean, I guess maybe if you were out of your right mind, right? There's not a polite, respectful way to fling your cuckoo at some point. Okay, so like if I'm in a hospital, right? And the doctor is like,
00:33:37
Speaker
Hey, you have cancer. I'm not going to help you. And I spit in his face. That's a classy belly. But what faith? But if I were to take you in the house right now, bring into the garage, stand in front of your doorway with a gas can and a lighter, say, you can't leave ever. Right. Same thing. Same thing. Sweet.
00:34:06
Speaker
I'm not I'm not disrespecting health care professionals. I know you guys like deal with some crap I know quite a few people who are in the health care health care profession who get clawed and beat and smacked and whatever I'm just trying to say like what what I would register as a class D felony doesn't really
00:34:28
Speaker
It's not the same spectrum. I'm fine with that being a Class D felony. What I'm not fine is the barbecue plans for his girlfriend should have been attempted murder, not Class D felony. Correct. Correct. I would agree 100%. That's what you're trying to say. Yes. Gotcha.
00:34:46
Speaker
Right, and then the, you know, the five years were actually trying to commit that murder, right? Actually physically strangling someone. No, he only got three months for the, the, the, the barbecue point. Yeah, for the barbecue, right? And then five years. For strangling and beating and raping. Five years. Beating, raping, and strangling, okay? Five years. He had to have had really good attorneys. Maybe.
00:35:12
Speaker
There's just no I don't know how to justify some of the things that happen, right? Because we're on the outside looking in and so We're hitting we're hitting this point like years later, right? Yeah Maybe some of the other people were convinced. I don't know I don't know But guys don't fling your poo at a health care professional because it's a Class D felony And if you do do it politely and with respect
00:35:43
Speaker
That was you should not have we can't edit this face. Well, I know, but that's such a dumb thing. There is no polite, respectful way to fling your bottle. I have to. Hey, you're so beautiful. I don't spread on the side of the face like.
00:35:59
Speaker
It's such a stupid like don't put your don't put your fecal matter in on other people. If you're still hanging on to this podcast right now, I'm sorry. We are not always like this. We're both very, very sleep deprived. And the power keeps going out here in East Tennessee. And so nobody's really sleeping because it's too hot. My house is infected by snakes. Yes. Yeah. OK. Anaconda is right. Of East Tennessee. Of East Tennessee, which is a five foot rat snake for anybody.
00:36:29
Speaker
That's taller than you are. I'm 5'2". I'm small. I get that. But I got a lot of spunk. Back to the trial, Nutdove. Back, back, back to the story. The argument ensued and eventually it was brought to the Supreme Court. This whole death penalty, not death penalty crap.
00:36:57
Speaker
OK, it was submitted to the Supreme Court because nobody could really come to a conclusion about anything. So we're going to go to a higher up. Right. My tax dollars hard at work. Oh, girl. Hell, yeah. Right. And you know what your tax dollars did? I don't want to know. What did your tax dollars do, Faith? Say that he should be put to death. No. Your tax dollars did nothing.
00:37:24
Speaker
That's my shock face. Yes, that's your shock face. Really? Good night, good bye. Come down, Dolly. Look, look, look. The Supreme Court literally was like, I'm not even gonna look at this. Okay. Yeah. Sweet. Cool. Well, you know, they have so many other things to contend with. What, what, what?
00:37:52
Speaker
I don't know what mansion they're going to. OK, they do. No, I went there. I went there. I'm not saying that they don't do their job. I'm just saying that in a case like this, you've got to intervene. Yeah. OK, this is a man who at this point has admitted to murdering multiple women. He brought them on a tour to murder. Yeah. Tour de murder. Right. Terrible. That was. Oh, my God.
00:38:18
Speaker
Alright, Lumiere! Hit Paws! Hit Paws and get me out of here! Get me away from you! Guys, alright, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I know it's not funny, but it's just Faith's... Faith just makes me laugh. Her whole face, everything. Okay. So, the Supreme Court said, no, no bro, we don't even want to look at this case. Okay? So, um, yeah. The Supreme Court refused to look,
00:38:48
Speaker
about the law's constitutionality. Constitutionality. No, you said it right. Constitutionality. Thank you. I suck. On May 4th, 2018. Isn't that their job? 2018? Yes. We've skipped a couple days. Just a couple. Of the years? Just a couple. 365 times like four? Yeah. Mm. Fracking kidney. 2018 on May 4th, 2018.
00:39:17
Speaker
Uh, Darren pled guilty for a plea bargain. Um, so that the prosecution, he'd already pled guilty.
00:39:27
Speaker
he how do you he pled okay he he he got arrested and said let me take you on my tour to murder then he said oh but or d murder those two aren't mine but i'm guilty for all the rest she's already admitted to it right twice uh-huh once in a court of law right once after his Miranda rights are read
00:39:50
Speaker
And now he's
Historical and Modern Justice Comparisons
00:39:51
Speaker
going to plead guilty for a third time to get a deal. He's already pled guilty. But here's the deal. Oh, he got the deal. Oh, God. So now homeboy got to serve a whopping seven consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. Now, guys, before- My tax dollars, harder working kids. Working nine to five. Woo hoo. I don't know how the song goes. You'll see that's all I know.
00:40:21
Speaker
I'm not picking on or even trying to claim that I know 110% that this is what went down. So if you're from Indiana and you have a better grasp on what happened here,
00:40:37
Speaker
There's like nothing on the internet. There was like nothing, okay? So if you know better than me, guys, by all means, please call me out. She's used to being told she's wrong. I would love to know if there was more to this story than what I could possibly bring to the table tonight.
00:41:01
Speaker
So before we keep going, because I have a list of victims, I want to ask Faith a couple of questions. First question. All of this started in 1991, where he joined the Marine Corps and was dishonorably discharged and then set free. Why was he? Well, you can get dishonorably discharged for a lot of reasons in the military. Yes.
00:41:31
Speaker
So it could have been a nonviolent offense. It could have been, I'm gonna assume just going out on a limb here because of violent tendencies and mental instability. Like you can literally, you can get dishonorably discharged in the military or in the Marines for even like having an affair. Like they can bring, there's a lot of rules. So there's a lot of reasons. So just because he was dishonorably discharged does not necessarily mean that he should have been let free. However,
00:42:01
Speaker
when he held someone hostage with gas and fire. Here's the deal. I feel like that's the first building block of the tower that we're about to make throughout this man's history. I would like to know why he was this audibly discharged. So if anybody has that information, please let me know, because I couldn't find just a rat's crap. So my second question to Faith is five years.
00:42:31
Speaker
that he serves. So why is everybody so willing to just kind of brush off sexual assault? I don't know. Because I don't care. There's literally classifications of sexual assault. There shouldn't be. So you can be sexually assaulted.
00:42:57
Speaker
with no weapon, sexually assaulted with a weapon, sexually assaulted with an object, sexually assaulted with whatever. And there's literally classifications, like this guy beat, raped, and strangled this chick. And I can understand his word against hers, like there's really... whatever, okay? But guys, come on. How many people are really and truly willing to be beat in the face and strangled during sex?
00:43:25
Speaker
No, no, when you try to kill someone, that goes beyond breath play. I would agree. So now we got this guy who has block number two, five years and registered as a sex offender. But yes, still able to go on. Literally, literally. Yeah, literally goes on a killing spree. And it's like everyone's shocked. And nobody saw it coming. How did nobody see it coming? I did.
00:43:56
Speaker
I don't understand. Now, I will say it is so much easier for me to go online and read a story and watch everything transpire within that story. Yeah. So for me to look at this and look back and be like, well, that was a red flag or oh, well, that was a red flag. Like I get that. But like, do the states not communicate? I don't know. I was going to say, that's the thing. He's jumping states. There's nobody like constant in his life. I don't know.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's my biggest question, right? Like didn't even have to register as a sex offender when he went back to Indiana, not Indianapolis, sorry, Indiana. I'm assuming. I don't know. I thought I kind of thought it was the deal. Like if you go to buy a house and they do that check, it would pop that he was on a sex registry. Yeah.
00:44:47
Speaker
But if he goes in, doesn't tell anybody he's even there, nobody's going to know he's a squat. Yeah. So like in my mind, the registry does nothing like if I was a registered sex offender and I got up and I moved to like Alabama, but I lived homeless. Nobody would know. Nobody would know. No. And it's a valid point. So really, what does this list do other than
00:45:16
Speaker
makes it look like we're trying the government's trying. Yeah. Wow. I mean, it's sleeping in less at night. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys. That was a kind of a morbid twist on things, but that's just like questions that I have. You know what I mean? Like if you don't ask the questions, there's never going to be an answer. Right. So if somebody has an answer, like tell me because I got I got no. No. So that was my story.
00:45:45
Speaker
that you're going to read the victim's name. Oh, snap. Yes, ma'am. I'm so sorry. So on all of our longer podcasts, Faith and I really like to discuss the victims for a minute and like give them a name, right? Their lives mattered. Yeah, exactly. But when you go online and you look at a victim, the first thing that pops up is normally the person that killed them. Yeah. Right.
00:46:11
Speaker
Because that's like the high muckety muck. I mean, we've talked 47 minutes about this douche and have it. The only name was mentioned is Africa. Yes. But if I go online right now and I mentioned Africa, what she was about, what she did, what what her childhood was like, the chances of me actually finding anything about this young lady slim. Yeah. Very, very slim. Yeah. So I'm going to go through these victims, guys, real fast, give them a mention.
00:46:39
Speaker
and say to their families and anybody who loved and cared about them, our condolences. I'm sorry. Africa Hardy, 19, she's. And this, Jones, 35. Tiara Beatty, 28. Christine Williams, 36. Tracy Martin, 41. Sonia Billings-Lee, 53.
00:47:09
Speaker
Tanya Gatlin, twenty seven. They were young, like they had their whole lives pretty much majority of them were young, not even that. But when I look at somebody and I'm like, man, they're in their 40s or their 50s, like they've got kids, grandkids. Yeah. Like they've got my mom. My mom's in her 50s. My life would cease to function if she wasn't here. Yeah. So because one guy. One man.
00:47:37
Speaker
couldn't like contain or control himself all of these other people no no had to suffer because the because he was let free when there were several several instances where he should not have been set free but what are we going to hold someone accountable for guys like I'm being real right now when you talk about holding somebody accountable right like if you have a friend who's
00:48:05
Speaker
you know, struggling with drug addiction or whatever.
00:48:09
Speaker
You're going to call and you're going to check on them and you're going to be like, hey, everything good? Like, do you need my help? Whatever. OK. But what the government does is we're going to shove you into a penitentiary for five years. Right. And pretend like better at being a criminal. Yeah. Better at being a criminal. You can network. Absolutely. Absolutely. OK. So there's no actual rehabilitation. Like, OK. Well, we're going to see a therapist right for 10 minutes every other day. If they even do that. Yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
And he just gets to roam the streets again, guys. I am not a person who is against human rights. That's not what I'm trying to drive across. I am a person. I am for all humans' rights and my right to be safe. I am more for the victims and the chaos that these people... What's the word I'm looking for? Batter upon somebody else. They make it happen.
00:49:10
Speaker
It's forced. Anyways, that was Indiana. I'm gonna move on with Faith now, and she is moving over to the great state of...
00:49:20
Speaker
Chicago. That's not safe. That's not safe. Illinois is maybe the one that you're. We're going to Illinois. Because if I sing it, it's not as obvious I was wrong. Yeah, you should. All right. Stop singing. OK. OK. Let's continue on our road trip to Illinois. Moving on. According to prohibitiontours.com, Chicago was second to none when it came to this time period.
00:49:50
Speaker
Gin, guns, and glamour made Chicago the historical epicenter of the 1920s. The Great Chicago Fire of 1817 had nearly burned the city to the ground costing the city more than 17,000 buildings and hundreds of lives lost to the flames. In the years that followed this up to the 1920s, young entrepreneurs and architects poured into the city rebuilding from the ashes the skyline recognized today around the world.
00:50:19
Speaker
In these years, the city's population grew by 64%. It's new opportunities. That's a lot. With most of that increase being young people looking to make their mark on the world and not all those marks were good.
00:50:35
Speaker
So Chicago, Illinois in 1920s is said to be defined by jazz, prohibition, gangster wars, flappers, and booming times. While it all seems very great, gaspy-esque and pretty great in my mind, thinking about the jazz and the flapper dresses and all the, I don't know, I just like flapper dresses that you get to move around and it swishes. Yeah, it's like when guys used to actually dress like human beings, right? Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
during this time period would tell you a different side of this. The morning call did an interview with people who were around during this time period in Chicago and the article stated, city officials and most everyone connected with Chicago tourism and boomerism would rather not talk about what happened here in the 1920s.
00:51:23
Speaker
Al Capone was fond of saying perhaps no other city embodies the spirit of the times in quite the same way as Chicago. This is the city that put the roar in the Roaring Twenties, but that roar came at a very steep price and it was the gang wars that
00:51:43
Speaker
built it up, sorry, the gang roars that built into a bloody crescendo up until 1929. Yeah, you said Al Capone. Yeah. Anybody who is not like into that kind of thing, like. You still know Al Capone. Watch the godfather. Everybody knows Al Capone. Anybody, yeah. Scarface. Come on. So this is where our story is going to end up tonight, but first I'm going to go even more on the way back machine and give a little background.
00:52:10
Speaker
Thomas, Tommy, as he went by O'Connor, was born in an Irish village around 1818 and immigrated to the United States with his family when he was between two and three years old. His family settled in a neighborhood in Chicago whose nickname was Bloody Maxwell. If that tells you kind of the conditions, he grew up in. Oh, so like really, it was probably a safe, safe place. Well, if that, obviously you didn't get the conditions. So let me tell you the other nickname.
00:52:38
Speaker
the wickedest police district in the world. I'm sorry, police? Wickedest police district in the world. OK, guys, I know just based on my own obsession with weird things, OK, that back back in those days, like the cops were definitely like in some pockets. Yeah, right. We're going to get there. OK, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So the district was known for intense gang violence that plagued the area and the unsavory corruption of the police force itself.
00:53:08
Speaker
So Tommy's family was a very close-knit Irish family like they were back in the days and his siblings largely avoided any crime or gang activity that surrounded them. His family, his parents brought them there so that they could have a better life and they took advantage of it for the most part despite all the surroundings. His oldest brother David became a broker.
00:53:31
Speaker
Then there was Tommy then he had a younger brother named John who became an electrician and his sister Mary settled down Into a family life kind of like her mom. Okay, so like typical woman style and that day like you don't you don't have a career No, just get married kids. So the biggest sin among this group was his brother David who was known as darling days
00:53:54
Speaker
and he was the darling that um messed around with everything but his wife so wow there's that wow yeah um thomas who went by tommy just you know he he took another path in life he took the path of um least resistance if you will
00:54:14
Speaker
Um, he flew under the radar for the most, most parts, several years. And even though he was fully up to no good in these early years by speculation, of course, he never got caught. Uh, he and his partner in crime, whose name was Jimmy Cheren, which I'm probably butchered his last name, but unless your last name's Jones or Smith, I'm gonna butcher it. So Jimmy Cheren, and they hung around the saloon that Jimmy's father, Dominic operated, which saloon is a bar. Not that anybody, everybody knows that. Yeah, no, it's not fun.
00:54:45
Speaker
So it was here that the boys would fence the stolen goods that they'd obtained through the week because they were thief. So you mean fence like? Like they stole things and then they sold them at the bar. OK, I know what that means, but I just wanted to make sure that this is very old timey kind of talk. Yes, OK.
00:55:00
Speaker
So it was also the favorite watering hole for some of Chicago's quote unquote finest police officers to hang out and some of Chicago's worst criminals and gang members. This is also the place where Tommy and Jimmy learned how to steal cars and the other finer points of breaking the law.
00:55:20
Speaker
because it was surrounded by gang members. Right. All right. So in around 1915, Tommy became friends with Tommy Tucci.
00:55:34
Speaker
So, and Tommy, Tommy Tucci's brothers, Johnny, Eddie, and Joe. Guys, I'm so sorry, but like, when I hear some of these names, I'm like, oh yeah, it's Tommy Tucci, right? I'm sorry, but it's funny because it's just so what I grew up with. Okay, go. So they had this little crime organization they ran.
00:55:55
Speaker
Tommy, he was not the official leader, but he was Tommy, Tommy O'Connor was not the like leader of this gang, the Valley that they were called the Valley Gang. But he was like the unofficial leader, like he he took charge. He did so like basically he wasn't a leader, but everyone kind of just sought to first him. Yeah. Yeah. And they were the Valley Gang until it was converted into one of the Capone satellite gangs.
00:56:25
Speaker
according to the Tucci gangsters blog spot that's where I got that information because I mean this is the 1920s there's not a lot of news and gangsters people don't you don't talk about them all and not even that but there's a lot of information that's gonna be hidden because I did think it was interesting like when I was looking up all this stuff especially on the Tucci gangster blog spot the two Tommy Tucci and his brothers and
00:56:49
Speaker
Um, ended up being one of the like big Irish gangs and they were one of the first to take on Al Capone's Italian mob. Okay. Well, but yeah, y'all, if you, again, if you didn't grow up in that era, whatever with people, like for me, it's like.
00:57:07
Speaker
She grew up in Boston and she's Italian, so she knows all about the mob. I've never seen a mob movie, but I still know who Al Capone is. I'm not even saying that. I know who Al Capone is, but even to the day when my parents were growing up, my dad mostly.
00:57:22
Speaker
The Irish and the Italians lived on different blocks. Like it was just and nobody cared who kicked his butt. Like that's just the time. I don't know. Like I didn't do a lot of information into the two brothers, but I don't know who they are. And I know who Al Capone is. So I'm going to go ahead and guess they didn't win that fight in the end. I would probably agree. Throw that out there anyway. Well, Al Capone from what I know pretty much ran. I mean, well, not even that, but he had people in like the high, high up. Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:52
Speaker
So Tommy O'Connor was primary a burglar.
00:57:56
Speaker
Um, however, yeah, that's it. I mean, that was his main, his main, like he started, I mean, when he was like, well, he was fencing stuff. Yeah. But he also ran a taxi service, which worked nice as his covers, a burglar, because he could be in any neighborhood in his taxi. And he had a reason for being there. Like he was never out of place. Don't look in the trunk for the stolen bubbles. I mean, you know, so he's pretty smart about it. Um, well, back in the day.
00:58:26
Speaker
So the Tucci brothers, uh, introduced O'Connor to the fun world of nitroglycerin, which they used to blow safes during the robberies, which will, you know, get into a little bit more later. But anyway, Tommy was also known to have an explosive temper. Like everybody knew he had a screw loose, basically. Like, well, I mean, he was just, he had an explosive timber, temper, and it would get set off at anything. One story that was told.
00:58:55
Speaker
was his mother had gone to the butcher's and bought meat. And Tommy felt like she was overcharged for this meat. So logically, he chopped off the butcher's thumb. Chopped it off. Like gone with the cleaver. With the cleaver. Chopped off his thumb.
00:59:14
Speaker
I said a logical. No, no, no. Now I did think about it. Yeah. And they say that she was overcharged. So the easiest way to like overcharge someone is to put your thumb on the weight while you're weighing them. I think that's why he chopped his thumb off. That's pure speculation.
00:59:33
Speaker
So I feel like at this point, based on my story and where you were coming from, citizen punishment, way worse than the government. The mob rules are the real deal. So his reputation to continue to get worse and worse, and he was known to be a cold-blooded killer, even though he had never been convicted of killing anyone.
00:59:57
Speaker
Everyone said he was a cold blooded killer. And he was eventually given the moniker. Terrible Tommy O'Connor. Everyone just called him Terrible Tommy. Oh, so that would lead me to believe like he was like a sweet guy. The best, the best. So in 1921, Tommy and his friends were burglarring a safe as one does at the Illinois Central Station.
01:00:24
Speaker
In the process, they shot and killed a night watchman, which was an off-duty Chicago policeman named Dennis Tenere, and one of their quote unquote associates, so one of their burglar buddies. And Tommy's crew were able to escape unscathed, except for one member named Harry Emerson, who was arrested.
01:00:47
Speaker
and when he was arrested and brought to the clink, immediately said, cut me a deal, I know who shot that officer. Oh, that's so weird. It was terrible Tommy O'Connor. That's so weird, dude. I feel like, OK. No, game off. Like, I feel like if you're a rat back in that day. I didn't think there was any, like. No. Well, I mean, I'm sure there were a ton of rats, but I feel like at the same time. By rat, which means the one that squeals on them. Yes. Like, you don't, I don't think you tell them them. No.
01:01:16
Speaker
And I'm sorry, if your name's terrible, Tommy, I hate telling your secrets. Like you want me to go to the clink? I'll go to the clink. Yeah. Like, I mean, oh my God. Okay. All right. Yep. Tell Tommy. So I'm going to write you out and then nothing bad will ever happen to me. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, what was his name? One more time. Say it. Harry Emerson. Harry Emerson. Got it.
01:01:39
Speaker
So Tommy was arrested and when he was arrested, he wanted to talk to the DA and he told the DA, listen, I'm gonna make you a deal. Make a deal with me to get me off because I know who actually pulled the trigger to kill the officer and it was none other than Harry Emerson. Right. The DA declined that deal. Yeah. Yeah. They already had a deal.
01:02:05
Speaker
Well, luckily for O'Connor, he had a dozen childhood friends on that police force. And they told him. When you say O'Connor, who do you mean? Terrible Tommy. Terrible Tommy. So his buddies on the police force told him, hey, the reason why your deal was declined was because Emerson's already made a deal with the DA to finger you in this crime. Oh, snap. OK. So logical Tommy, again, knew that before this trial happened, Harry had to die.
01:02:33
Speaker
good deal so I think at this point in time like if I were Harry I clearly have a steel in my lower region I think Harry's a dumb dumb because what did you think was gonna happen bro that's what I'm saying so back to my story yep
01:02:54
Speaker
Terrible Tommy's in jail, so he calls his buddy from his adolescence days that he's grown up with Jimmy, who now goes by the moniker Jimmy the Peacock. I'm sorry, say it again. Jimmy the Peacock. Peacock! Okay, so like when he gets mad, does he like flash his feathers in a very sexually alluring way?
01:03:16
Speaker
I don't know. To capture a mate. Maybe he was just flashy guy. Maybe. Like he's just just nice flashy jewelry, the chains, the rings. Yeah. Like the green back hair. Greased back hair. Yep. All right. All right. So he calls Jimmy the peacock and he's like, listen, I need you to kill Harry Emerson for me. Excuse me. I need you to kill Harry Emerson for me. And Jimmy's like, I get that. I understand where you're coming from, but I can't help you.
01:03:47
Speaker
The deal is Jimmy has been in trouble with the law over and over. I mean, they started when they were like 10 stealing things and and selling these stolen things in his in his father's pub. His father's his father, Dominic, knew all the police officers and has pretty much used up all his favors to keep Jimmy out of jail. Right. So his father is harping on Jimmy to get straight. Give out so many free beers. Right. Right. Yeah. And Jimmy's girlfriend has just had a son.
01:04:16
Speaker
And when his son was born, he promised his father, I'm on the straight and narrow no more. And so that's what Jimmy told terrible Tommy, I can't help you. I've already made this promise. I can't put my risk and my family at risk anymore. I'm out of favors. I'm out of chances like the next one I'm swinging. Well, Tommy said, okay, well, I need you to call Dominic and get Dominic to help me.
01:04:43
Speaker
and they did not do that. I'm so sorry. The Dominic was the dad. Dominic was Jimmy's dad. Okay. That was the peacock. Jimmy the peacock. So I don't like, there's not a ton of information on what happened. I'm assuming Harry met an early demise somehow, but however it happened, um, Tommy was released from prison. He never went to trial.
01:05:11
Speaker
And you have to remember 1920 Chicago was notoriously corrupt, cops, judges, politicians, they were all quote unquote on the take in the mobsters pockets. So the only thing I could find in every single source was there were some quote unquote shady court dealings. Literally every site I found just said shady court dealings and O'Connor was released out to the public. All right. So we're going to get real.
01:05:38
Speaker
We're not going to admit that there were politicians in the back pockets of these people. But we don't know. I would assume. OK, because those those guys back in those days controlled like everything. Oh, yeah. The monsters controlled everything, everything. And I've never even watched The Godfather, any of them. And I know. Yeah. I mean, you can watch Casino and kind of see how I've never seen any mobster flick.
01:06:05
Speaker
That's all right, but I won't judge you for that, but we're going to have a movie night soon anyway. Anyway, so terrible. Tommy gets out and he's, you know, he's free. He goes out with his buddy, Jimmy and his girlfriend, and there's literally no harm to Jimmy, the peacock, Jimmy, the peacock, but there's no hard feelings. They've been best friends since they were like, you know, knee high to a grasshopper. They're fine. And Jimmy tells them that we're bro. Okay. It's an I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go.
01:06:32
Speaker
So they go out driving one night and they're having a few beers, smoking their cigarettes in the car. And they're just talking reminiscing about old times, old fences, old scores, whatever. And Tommy puts his hand on Jimmy's shoulder and was like, listen, man, we're bros. Like, we're good. And Jimmy was like, I'm really glad. I hated not being able to help you. And Tommy said, I know you did. And then Tommy pulled the gun and shot Jimmy three times in the face.
01:07:04
Speaker
And you're not funny guys, but it's so just mob movie that you've ever watched. Like that is literally the deal. Yeah. Right. So the only and like nothing was ever set like he was never brought on charges. Nothing was ever said. The only reason you even know about this is because like multiple decades later, Jimmy's girlfriend, like
01:07:27
Speaker
gave a report about what happened. Right. Yeah. After everybody was. But yeah, right. Long dead. Yeah. Jimmy just disappeared, basically. Right. Yeah. So terrible. Tommy's free. He's he's good. He didn't even go to court for killing this off duty officer. But his victory was short lived. There was someone with some morals in the justice system and knew that the justice in this case had been perverted.
01:07:53
Speaker
And so they sent Detective Patrick O'Neill to arrest O'Connor at his sister's house at Washtenaw Avenue because he was a lot of Irish people. I know. Yeah. So he said, you know, Tommy is free and he went to go see a sister, Mary, have dinner with her and her husband, see the niece's nephew.
01:08:11
Speaker
Um, no big deal. Mary, this is her brother, her big brother, who's probably protected her all his life because while he's a jerk, he's probably always been nice to her and taking care of her. Like that's a baby sister. She was, you know, it's just a family thing. Yeah. It's that unit. And he wasn't even brought to trial. So in her mind, nothing's wrong, right? It could just all be fabrication. She didn't even know like if it was you in that situation,
01:08:39
Speaker
either one of your brothers or either one of mine, for that matter. Like how would you really- But you wouldn't even know, like it wasn't in the papers. Like he was arrested, but never even brought to trial. So no one even knew all this happened really.
01:08:53
Speaker
So Patrick O'Neill took several officers with him and surrounded Mary's home to arrest Terrible Tommy. Around 10 p.m. that night, a man ran out of the house with a gun in each hand, opened fired on the police as he ran away, jumped a fence, and onto the next street where he hijacked a car and drove off into the night. And detectives... Whoa, it was Terrible Tommy.
01:09:20
Speaker
Well, you said a man. Detective O'Neill suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was pronounced dead around three around, I'm sorry, 11 30 p.m. that night. So one cop died. I'm sorry. There was an inquest that followed, which resulted in the suspension of multiple police officers who were found to have accompanied O'Neill that night. The judge that oversees this inquest
01:09:50
Speaker
um was not satisfied with their conflicting stories of the night and it was said that he poured scorn onto their carelessness that caught the fellow officer his life. The officers had fired indiscriminately leaving office O'Neill dead and his wife and three young children alone in the world. That was from wait. I'm getting there. So there's there's an actual I can go bitcheries.com and look him up and that's that was what was said in there. But
01:10:19
Speaker
Two of the officers shot Detective O'Neal in the back because they were not truly trying to shoot Tommy.
01:10:26
Speaker
So he got shot from the front by Tommy, from the back by fellow officers and detective O'Neill died. And actually when I was looking on obituary.com, like it was like just a couple months ago, like his great, great grandson was like, this was my grandfather. We still talk about him. Super proud of him. Like he was moral and upset. I feel like he was literally the only one in that scenario who had a moral standing. Like his great, great grandson is on the internet talking about anyway.
01:10:52
Speaker
So the residents of the house, Tommy's brother-in-law and sister Mary were arrested and charged on April 22nd, 1921 with accessory to murder of Detective O'Neill.
01:11:03
Speaker
Well, they don't have anybody else. Exactly. OK. On July 30th, 1921 in St. Paul, Minnesota, Tommy was on the lamb drunk and every every source I found says he was a drunken. He was making a drunken nuisance of himself on the train. So he was just so in other words, guys, he was crap based and like you Friday night.
01:11:28
Speaker
baby. I stay home. I don't go on a train. He's on he's on a train and he was arrested. Calm down for making this public intoxication disturbance. And when he was arrested, the Chicago PD found out about it quickly dispatched a group of heavily armed detectives to bring him right back to Chicago. When he was found, there were only four items on his person. There was a rosary beats.
01:11:54
Speaker
There was a scout. Oh, what a shocker, an Irish Catholic, right? Or an Italian Catholic, right? Like shocker. So there was a scattler, which I didn't know what that was. It is a devotional item held by many Roman Catholic believers. And it's like this string with, I'll post a picture of it, but it's like a string that kind of goes on your neck and it's got like embroidery, like little tablets on the, it's a prayer item. Okay. Yeah.
01:12:21
Speaker
And there was a St. Patrick's praying card. Those were three of the items. And with those three items, of course, a pistol. Because you need a gun while you're praying, apparently. So he was dragged back to Chicago to await trial. In the meantime, in September, now that the actual murder had been caught and was there getting awaiting trial, his sister Mary and her husband were both released.
01:12:49
Speaker
It's I'm going to butcher the pronunciation Nolle Prost N-O-L-L-E space P-R-O-S-S-E-D Nolle Prost. How do you Google it? It is a fancy Latin legal term.
01:13:03
Speaker
which means stopping the prosecution of the case and eventually a dismissal of charges. So basically, we're not going to prosecute you. You're free to go. And we're going to dismiss all charges. So in my mind, I would think they only took them into custody to get him to come out of the woodwork. Well, that they're not saying that they are dismissing the charges yet. Eventually they will if Tommy is found guilty. Yeah, but it's kind of like one of those
01:13:31
Speaker
They're holding his family hostage face. Yeah. Yeah, basically, you know, it's like here's a ransom, right? Like we'll do worse your baby sister's going down if you don't yeah, so that's where we're at on October 14 1921 Thomas O'Connor terrible Tommy was sentenced to death by hanging for the murder of detective O'Neill So let's I just want to track this especially with what you said last episode on October 14th
01:14:01
Speaker
1921, they said guilty and your sentence is death by hanging. And at that court date, at that day, they set his execution date for December 15th, 1921. That day, two months and a day after this day that we are telling you, you are going to die by hanging is when you will die.
01:14:22
Speaker
Wow. Kind of shocked me because we I mean, I understand appeals and stuff today because there are like Sonny Jacobs. There are people from death row. But if there's no like like your guy, he admitted to seven murders. He showed you where it is. There's not a question here. Let's just move it along. So anyway, I just found that interesting. I find it interesting. Also, you're getting trash all over me.
01:14:49
Speaker
It's an ash. Keep it on your down. Keep it on your side. Stop it. Get shut up anyway. Really? You weren't making you weren't making words. I was trying to make my face. But you literally interrupt me every time I'm trying to. You want to shut up? Hey, guys. Once in a great while.
01:15:11
Speaker
Uh, I try to say something. I'd like to buy a vowel. All right. What I'm saying is. Oh, no, it's already for today. Yeah, I've got my one. All right. Look.
01:15:27
Speaker
They sentence him, right? And then the day they say you're guilty and sentence to death, this is the day you will die in two months, one daytime. Okay. But does that even happen now? So there's no comparison there. No. At all. I just thought it was weird that like they do today. Like they give you, you're on death row for 10, 20, 30 years. Appeals. This is. Did they even really do that back then?
01:15:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you can fight it if you have other stuff, but they're basically given time to say bye to his family I mean it's you're sentenced to die and two months later. You're dead like that's a that's a pretty short time frame. It is Extremely well for now. Yeah for like this time, right? What? Fine, whatever. I'm just saying that I Just feel like that's a long time two months and one day. Yeah We're gonna move this story along
01:16:18
Speaker
fine whatever so I'm just gonna be honest with you in my opinion he's nicknamed terrible Tommy where did we think his life was gonna end up at the end of the day terrible exactly his family obviously lives successful lices except for darling Dave that couldn't keep it in his pants
01:16:38
Speaker
His sister's only fault was loving her brothers and having him over dinner that night. Um, he's been his whole like adolescence and early childhood with, with mobsters and stealing. So this is, this is kind of, you know, I'm not surprised by where he ended. There's a justification. He was just, he just chose the wrong path. He surrounded himself with the wrong people. Himself.
01:17:05
Speaker
So Tommy was scheduled for the galas in December and he spent those last two months in jail. His family came to visit him. Um, his sentence was approaching and terrible. Tommy was up to his last week on this earth. He was getting ready to say his final goodbyes. I'm sure crafting some great speech to give. Um, um, before he met the Hanksman news and like the last words. Yeah. Like you get your last words. So.
01:17:33
Speaker
Four days before his date with the hangman's news, prison guard David Strauss was walking through the gels doing his nightly walkthrough. And while passing Tommy cell was suddenly put in a headlock by James Laporte, who was Tommy cellmate.
01:17:48
Speaker
And so this guard is walking by. Tommy's cellmate is standing there and as soon as he walked by, grabs him, puts him in a headlock. Tommy- Like through the bars. Yeah, through the bars. Through the bars. Tommy quickly relieves this guard of his keys and his gun. Tommy and Laporte drag the officer into their cell after Tommy unlocks the door. They bind him up, they gag him, and they peace out. They run through the yard, climb a 20-foot fence, and jump to freedom.
01:18:19
Speaker
both of them both of them well and you know there are tons of stories like urban legends went down about how this prison escape went there was one version where he um he someone smuggled a gun into him in a sandwich
01:18:36
Speaker
And I'm just going to be realistic. I don't think there's a Sammy good enough in the world. That's going to hide a cult 45 between two pieces of bread. So probably not. That would literally have to be the biggest Italian low hollowed out. So the most believable and accredited story is where the guard is putting a headlock. Tommy and four to five other prisoners overpower any guards on their bid to freedom.
01:19:01
Speaker
So Tommy scales this 20 foot wall to prison, jumps over and lands on the hood of a law student, Harry J. Bosch.
01:19:10
Speaker
who just side note, like literally a random lawsuit is driving home and he jumps on his car. This random law student, just because I just found it interesting, later becomes a defense attorney who was reputed to be the, um, the defense attorney for all mob hitmen and big hitters in the, in the, in the Chicago mob until the late, until the late 1960s, when he became the mayor's private attorney. Really?
01:19:40
Speaker
So like I'm going to work with a mob guy like my entire career. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I'm going to flip over to politics, which is not.
01:19:49
Speaker
They're not so ironic. They're not connected. So ironic. So they did interview Bosch 70 years later and he still remembers that night stating that all of a sudden the sliding glass was ripped open and there stood a man with a gun to his face yelling drive like hell you son of a B or I'll blow your brains out. I'm Tommy O'Connor.
01:20:12
Speaker
So Butch said he drove and he drove fast. Now, you got to remember Butch is not corrupted at this point. He is a law student dreaming of changing the world, making the world a better place. This is before he got in bed with the mob. So he deliberately crashed aside in his car into the side of a factory trying to not let Tommy escape.
01:20:36
Speaker
And he said, he said, O'Connor scrambled out of the car very quickly. And the last time he saw him, Tommy was limping down the street. Wow. So a manhunt immediately started for Tommy. Well, yeah. With a $3,000 reward for any information leading to his arrest. Today, that would be $40,000. Seriously? $40,000. So they were, they were serious. Yeah.
01:21:03
Speaker
However, it was not enough to shake any tips loose from any lips. Hundreds of police searched the streets, surrounding areas, searching for the fugitive. However, it was like the limerick, it was like the limerick born hoodlum had just disappeared into the night. We'll get back to that in a minute. So what you're telling me is right now is that people are more afraid of gang bangers than the government. OK.
01:21:31
Speaker
gangbangers and the mob are two completely different things. It basically all started the same way. The mob was a lot scarier. I would agree. It was a lot more organized. I would agree. But what I'm saying is, is people in general. I don't I don't know if that's true, though. So much more scared. No, I don't. A civilian.
01:21:52
Speaker
No, I'm not going to say that that's true because I'll get there. All right. So a manhunt ensues for Tommy, terrible Tommy. It was enormous. And it took close across America, but Tommy was never found sightings and rumors of sightings continued to come in through the years. He was seen in Texas. He was seen in Louisiana. He was seen in California. He was seen in Canada.
01:22:13
Speaker
He went across the country robbing banks before he got to Canada. So people were trying to find him, but literally nobody could find him like he stayed on the run. OK. So from Canada, it was said that he took all his loot from this massive bank robberies across the United States. Bored a ship for Limerick back to Ireland where he was from.
01:22:39
Speaker
And it's rumored that he bought a public house or a bar pub under a fake name and lived out his days on Shannon's side, offering his services to the IRA. Like some of the things, some of the things are pretty far, far stretched, but everyone can try to find anybody that doesn't know what the IRA is. It's, it's, it's a really bad organization in Scotland. That's like a.
01:23:02
Speaker
Uh-huh. Little domestic terrorist street, basically. There you go. Okay, I'm sorry, just. But the thing is, is people continually try to say, hey, we see him, we see him, but he never stayed in one spot long enough to be caught. Right. So it wasn't that they were afraid of him at this point. He's not surrounded by the mob any longer. It's just nobody, he, he vanished. Like he was gone. So.
01:23:23
Speaker
Around 1927, it was suggested that terrible Tommy had actually died from tuberculosis. He got tuberculosis as a kid. He had problems with his lungs. There's actually a tombstone in Cook County, Illinois with his name on it. And the date of death is 1951. Remember that. But no one knows for sure. No one ever saw him again. No one heard from him. Nothing. I feel like there's a catch. Well, there's.
01:23:53
Speaker
Not really, but in 1928, Cook County dropped the use of hanging in favor of electrocution. They no longer executed people by hanging for anyone that was given a death penalty. However, the gallows were not dismantled and kept there solely because O'Connor had been given a sentence of death by hanging, so the equipment had to be ready in the event he was ever captured. Wait, wait.
01:24:22
Speaker
Eight years after his death sentence, they just said, we're going to keep it. We're going to keep it. This is established. It's his. So in the 1950s, we're jumping forward 30 years. Wow. A court order forced the city to retain O'Connor's gallows sentencing, and he was to be kept on the death list until his death was made no.
01:24:46
Speaker
So in other words, until it's proven, he's about to get hung here. So in 1951, all of a sudden, there's a tombstone the next year. The gallows stayed standing tall, not being used because they were discontinued in 1929.
01:25:06
Speaker
until 1977. You're kidding. When they finally dismantled them and there was a gigantic sign which I will post and it read tired of waiting on Tommy.
01:25:17
Speaker
wait so they just like whoa we're in 1977 he was like these people they're like we're gonna hold this it was 1921 rotting piece of structure that hasn't been used in like 60 years yeah and we're just gonna leave it up because this guy and they said we're tired we're tired of waiting on him
01:25:42
Speaker
And so we're finally going to get rid of it. So little fun fact, there was an entrepreneur who purchased the gallows. They were not dismantled. I'm so sorry, what? There's an entrepreneur that was building this little Wild West town for like tourism and he purchased them as a prop. And then Ripley's, believe it or not, purchased them in 2006 for $68,300. Same gallows. Wow.
01:26:05
Speaker
Um, so yeah, Ripley's man. They have everything. He was freaking never found. They kept these gallows for six seasons. So they're finally like, eh, we're tired of waiting on him. Photo op got the photo. It's hysterical. It's literally dead by now, bro. But on, on every single year on the anniversary of his escape, the Chicago Tribune columnist Tom Powers,
01:26:26
Speaker
writes a piece about the limerick man, which is where I got that quote earlier, the limerick born hoodlum. And he starts every year with the same sentence, dear terrible Tommy, dear terrible Tommy O'Connor, if you are still alive, please contact me so I can quit writing these columns.
01:26:45
Speaker
What? It's been a story. Really? Literally. Illinois was like yours. There were so many really interesting huge murder cases that I could deep dive into a week of talking about them. So I was just doing a Google search. And on the Google search, it brings up pictures at the top. And I saw a hangman's news with a sign that said, tired of waiting on Tommy. And I was like, what?
01:27:13
Speaker
No way, really? So I click on the picture and I went down a rabbit hole and I was like, this is fracking interesting. Yeah. I'm going to do this one. Well, anybody that like back in that like in those days, right? No.
01:27:28
Speaker
They were twisted. Like you have no idea what they actually really, really did. Well, I didn't like I almost didn't do the story for two reasons. Number one, last week I ended on a we don't know what happened got away. Yeah. And I said I wouldn't do that again, but no one played the Florida man game. So your fault. But number two, really.
01:27:48
Speaker
Like, yes, we're going to blame the two listeners that we have for our story tonight. Yeah. But it was, it was just such a, I also like, I did a ton of searches on every podcast, like site that I could find Spotify, Apple, and nobody has ever talked about terrible Tommy O'Connor.
01:28:07
Speaker
Really and I didn't like that because I like to listen to other people to get things that maybe I can't find because I'm not the best researcher like I'm a lazy researcher and I'm procrastinator research I'm in a research but I also want to hear other people found better sites that I did that I can do you know the lazy research I would say honestly unless you go on to a actual podcast about
01:28:30
Speaker
The mob in any sense, whether it's Russian, but it's still like, you can do, you can tell you, no one talks about this guy. It was such a good site. I didn't want to do it for those two reasons. Number one, there's no conclusion. Like he was just in the wind, lived the rest of his life fine. And, but the Gallo pitcher was tired of waiting on Tommy.
01:28:52
Speaker
I couldn't let it go. I was like, well, I'm gonna have to put on my big, my researcher hat and I'm gonna have to. So that's what it did. Cause no one, I love the twenties. I love the dresses, the flapping, the, the, the, you know, the tingles that move. Oh absolutely, dude. The way the boys used to dress, like the spats and the like the. There were spats in my wedding. We had spats in my wedding. I know. Oh, I know. That was the Italian way, honey. Anyway. Heritage. So those are our stories tonight.
01:29:19
Speaker
We went a little over by a lot over. So I hope you guys enjoyed them. I do too. I've got, I will post pictures cause they've got like the Chicago Tribune wrote up like a super great article showing like diagrams of the breakout. There's pictures of Tommy. There's, I'm sorry, the Gallo tired of waiting on Tommy is probably my favorite, but I'll post all those on our Instagram and our Facebook this week. If you want to go look, you can also see the snake that tried to end my life.
01:29:48
Speaker
Yeah, you definitely need to go on and check that out. Well, that's all we got. That's all we got. We got to record tomorrow night for the next one. Oh, man. Stupid vacation. Well, look, guys, I'm going to go face the Florida man in a few days. So wish me luck. We'll still be dropping our episodes because we feel like you guys love us. All right. Well, that's our stories for tonight.
01:30:14
Speaker
You guys are awesome, thank you. Hope you had a great night, having a great summer, and stay safe. Bye. Bye.