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139- Do animal sanctuaries use too many vegan resources?
102 Plays2 months ago
Saving & prolonging the lives of innocent non-human animals is valuable & heart-warming work. But with tens of billions of animals needlessly losing their lives to human exploitation every year, could the finite resources of the vegan movement be applied more effectively? Ant, Carlos & Mark explore this thorny question in this episode.
Reference is made in this episode to the following source:
https://veganfta.com/2024/01/21/concerns-about-us-animal-sanctuaries-financial-future/
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Carlos, Mark & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Vegan Talk'
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody. Now, here's a question for you. Are animal sanctuaries a good use of the vegan movement's resources? This is vegan talk from Enough of the Falafel and today, myself, Anthony, I'm joined by Mark and Carlos to discuss that very thorny
00:00:26
Speaker
Take your flat grown meat elsewhere, we're not doing that in the state of Florida. Do they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute, you always pay for the farm.
00:00:53
Speaker
long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:02
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hi everyone, it's Mark here. Thanks for joining us. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk and thank you for being here.
00:01:13
Speaker
Carlos here and welcome to Vegan Talk.
Sanctuaries vs Zoos
00:01:16
Speaker
Today we're here to discuss animal sanctuaries and whether they're a good use of resources for the vegan movement. Indeed, it's a conversation I've sort of tentatively had a couple of times over the years, not it not with me bringing it up but it's a question I've heard asked before when I think sometimes it's something that actually maybe can feel a bit taboo to even go there because we're sort of talking about these lovely places animal sanctuaries and we're questioning their existence but anyway let's have the conversation see where we get to. Carlos it's very possible that there will be listeners who don't know very much about animal sanctuaries or you know what's the difference between a animal sanctuary in a ah zoo or ah ah whatever. So are you happy to get the ball rolling by just explaining? and You've discussed on the pod before the fact that you there's an animal sanctuary you go to reasonably regularly. Just give us an outline of what an animal sanctuary is.
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess the difference between an animal sanctuary and ah in a zoo is that animal sanctuaries are for the animals. They're not the commercial activity, could see them more as a as as a place for for animals to live out their natural lives, like lifespan of their arms without being exploited in any fashion whatsoever. So if, you know, no animal is killed for their meat or has its kind of wool sheared to be sold,
00:02:39
Speaker
There's just no animal exploitation. They're very much associated with the vegan movement, although I guess it would be theoretically possible for people to run and work an animal sanctuary and not be a vegan. But I found that practically it the kind of the two things work together. In my personal case, I do have a friend who has an animal sanctuary, not albeit not a very big one. but um And she kind of got there by accident because she was a She knew some people people who were selling their flock of sheep and she just happened to be local to her and she felt bad about all those sheep being sold for slaughter. So she just bought them and put them on their land. And then all of a sudden she had an animal sanctuary. And quite often the animal sanctuaries I come across, they have similar stories. It usually starts with
00:03:28
Speaker
one random pig who jumped off a lorry and all of a sudden that person has that pig taking care of them and then there's another pig that needs rescuing and then they go all right they can come and live with this pig and then all of a sudden they have very big animal sanctuary yeah so i i guess the difference between animals sanctuaries and zoos is that animal sanctuaries are for the animals ah first foremost and i guess only for the animals Yeah, absolutely. You've mentioned there those who will run the sanctuary. I mean, my experience, do do weigh in, both of you, if if you have sort of counter examples to this, but my experience of sanctuaries as well is that they'll generally be a core team of people. Maybe it might be one person, maybe it might be three people or ten who work very intensively on that project. It's everything that they live and breathe. There's very little room in their life
00:04:19
Speaker
for anything else so in terms of their time and financially I mean I'm not aware of any animal sanctuary that gets any kind of regular government income or grant or anything like that, so all of the funding has to be initiated and and and found by the sanctuary themselves. The closest one to me is about 10 miles away and I got a little insight into their finances ah ah a few years ago because I was working quite closely with them and we're we're talking
00:04:51
Speaker
you know, six-figure sums to to keep it going per per year, and that's for it um for a sanctuary of ah around about 100 animals. Obviously, these cases will will will vary, but yeah, that they're not cheap places, and and they're not without an awful lot of hard work from from some very dedicated people.
Resource Allocation Debate
00:05:12
Speaker
So that leads to the question, Mark, if you're happy to sort of get the ball rolling on this one then,
00:05:19
Speaker
considering the lives of those people who are ah you know we're putting that effort in and considering all the financial outlay there for the sake of, let's say, 100 animals at a time.
00:05:32
Speaker
i mean We can look at the statistics. There are sometimes websites that will say, oh, if you go vegan over the course of your lifetime, you will save this many animals, you know, and it's well into the hundreds, if not the thousands. Is it an efficient use of the sort of limited, I suppose, resources of the vegan movement?
00:05:50
Speaker
I suppose, on one hand, very firmly the answer is no. The vegan movement is small. It's growing, but it's small. It's impoverished in comparison to the opposition. Any single one of our enemies like Macdonald's or Burger King or whatever has infinitely more resources.
00:06:07
Speaker
and material to work with than the global animal rights movement combined. So in one sense, no, it's not. Why should thousands of factory farm chickens not receive the attention because the resources are going towards 100 recently rescued chickens empirically and on on a certain rational, maybe Stalinistic mindset. It's a waste of resources. But there is a solution
Tax Proposal for Animal Sanctuaries
00:06:33
Speaker
here. What we could do and should do is extend what the Danish are doing with the Green Tripartite Initiative and tax the farming industry in order to pay for the wages and proper conditions of animal sanctuaries everywhere. And we can do that in two ways by taxing them directly or by shutting them down and using the land to rewild and introduce sanctuaries as
00:06:58
Speaker
in that form as well. So the expense shouldn't be borne by the animal rights community, it should be borne by the animal abusing industries. So governments should add extra on top of the carbon taxes and so on that they ah claim that they're implementing with the Paris agreement and so on. They should add on an extra tax, an animal cruelty tax are or something like this or animal rescue ah payments. So they pay for the for the abuse and trauma that they inflict on the animals.
00:07:29
Speaker
out of their own pockets and the nursing back to health is borne by them, not the animal rights community. So ah they are resource heavy but ah the simple solution is to tax the perpetrators and not the heroes in this story. So I love animal sanctuaries. I think they're fantastic places. They allow us to communicate and to build up a rapport with animals on a level that we want it to happen on. So there's no commercialization, there's no trivialization or cartoonization of this. It's a chance to have real encounters with animals who hopefully are over their trauma or getting over the trauma inflicted by other people. So there's quite a few animal sanctuaries around here. They're all very small shoestring operations. Josh, who you've been talking to recently, and is very involved and in ah one of them. and They tend to be and quite far away from where I am. I haven't been to one ever.
00:08:24
Speaker
I think um I might find it very overwhelming emotionally, at least initially, if I was to go on to one of these things. So I'm a bit and sort of scared about going on to one, in fact, ah for for that sort of personal reason. But I think the service they're doing, we owe it to the animals. It's an obligation ah on our part to take care of them. And the people who are doing it are really put themselves in a place where they can be quite traumatized by what they see. So they're very brave individuals. They're as brave as the individuals who break into ah factory farms and rescue the animals in the first place. In fact, one of the reasons for the shift for the Animal Liberation Front from rescuing animals to burning buildings down
00:09:03
Speaker
must be frank about it, was that the lack of refugee homes that they could send the animals to, they ran out of safe spaces to send the rescued animals to. So they decided to take on an economic war rather than a liberation war because of the lack of resources they had. So animal sanctuaries are a vital and obligatory part of ah the animal rights movement, I would say. and Any expense born should be borne by the factory farmers. Yeah, I certainly like that idea. I hadn't thought of things from that point of view, but yeah, that's that's definitely the way to go, isn't it?
Personal Experiences with Sanctuaries
00:09:35
Speaker
I mean, Carlos, when you're when you're visiting your your local sanctuary that that you do visit, how conscious are you of the resources that are required to to keep it going? Like, is that loud in your mind or is it allowed to be in the in the background whilst you're there?
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, I can't help think about it because I do ah do have a ah rescued dog myself and I know how much money and time I need to spend on things like, you know, vet care, ah special foods, you know, spend time with her walks, etc, etc. And then to kind of amplify that, multiply that by My friends, 50 sheep, obviously they don't require as many walks, but they do require veterinary care. And in in many ways, they're more fragile than a dog because they you know they they come from and end they've been they come from an industry where they're not supposed to last very long. And sanctuaries, that's another thing that's another kind of headwind they face is is that the animals they usually take care of have not been designed to live long and happy lives. Like, for example, commercial pigs, which are
00:10:42
Speaker
have been kind of designed to grow very, very fast, kind of very quickly mature and just become very heavy. And so they're not, you know, they require lots of veterinary care. So I think it's always on the back of my mind when I visit how much the whole thing must cost. But of course, because I i only go there really to volunteer and, you know, kind of.
00:11:02
Speaker
shovel poo around and clean things. It's not it's not like I have to think about that stuff. I could just come in and go in and kind of work for a few hours and and not have that concern because it's not my sanctuary. I find honestly I keep telling myself don't get involved in the sanctuary. Don't get involved because I just don't think I could handle the heartbreak of working in a place like that and then kind of seeing all my animals eventually die or or kind of not being able to stand up just because they've been so genetically altered by the food industry, for example. So I don't think I could do it. It's the one thing the one thing like in the animal rights movement that I would be completely like totally scared and put off by doing. I just i just don't think, i just I just don't think I'm a good enough a person to do that that kind of stuff. So my my respect for animal sanctuary and people the people who work there and create those,
00:11:59
Speaker
and put every kind of every pound of their money into running an animal sanctuary every hour, wake up at ungodly hours to do essentially farm work for no compensation except donations. It's really tough.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and And actually with the the current financial circumstances, it's it's even tougher. We've put a link in the show notes for this episode to report reported by vegan for the animals or veganfta.com. This was actually a year ago, early 2024. They surveyed 45 sanctuaries of different sizes across the US conducted by one of those sanctuaries, the Catskill Animal sanctuary um and New York sanctuary in the Hudson Valley. The key survey findings revealed that one in three sanctuaries, this was a year ago, experienced a 25% or more dip in donations. And one in five had seen a drop of 50% or more donations. And all but one sanctuary reported seeing a dramatic increase in the cost of essential supplies like hay, grain, and so on since the pandemic.
00:13:08
Speaker
37.5% said costs had doubled, so ah ah a really, really difficult picture there. I mean, Mark, you you talked about it being part of that the the the wider fabric, I suppose.
00:13:24
Speaker
of a vegan movement it's you said it's our obligation to to to have this as part of the the work we're doing i'm sure well you tell me i'm i would imagine you you wouldn't say that that's where all of our efforts and all of our resources should be going because then there would well would you say that would you say that all of our efforts of course not No, so where's the where's the bla where's the balance for for you oh i don't know in terms of percentages or or things like that it's a tough question i guess the there will always be people who will want to do this and this should be supported in and that in that initiative Ultimately what we need to do is turn off the pipeline really and stop the abuse from occurring in the first place to lessen the need and demand for and for ah animal sanctuaries. ah Probably more resources should be spent on stopping the abuse from occurring. So prevention is always is better than the cure and that that involves direct action and information and
00:14:22
Speaker
publicity awareness and education and legislation but we should never forget the the the frankly as I say the heroic work that the these people do and as I say we do owe to the animals ah in the same way as we owe it to children who've been abused and that that that we owe them rehousing and and and love and attention and it's the exact same with with non-human animals, but I'd say the focus should tend to be towards stopping it occurring in the first place, which means transitioning away from our current food production system primarily. Yeah, and there i mean there are things that sanctuaries can do that nothing else can do in terms of animal rights. Like, for example, having animal sanctuaries means we can have stories
00:15:08
Speaker
About we could show, let's say, industrial animals behaving in their natural way instead of because you can you can go and shoot, you know, do, you know, the footage of pigs in a slaughterhouse. And of course, there they're going to behave in a certain way, you know, terrified, stressed, self-harming, harming other pigs around them, which is, of course, a very powerful image.
00:15:32
Speaker
But you also need to show what those lives could be removed from the slaughterhouse and all the animal sanctuaries can do that. and And of course, some people will just flat out refuse to look at slaughterhouse footage, but they might be brought into veganism through seeing happy stories. you know So this this is this is what chickens do when they're allowed to roam, when they're allowed to create bonds with other chickens. and and and kind of explore their environment. you know And only sanctuaries can do that. There's no other way to present those stories and create those those images rather than sanctuaries. In fact, I think one of the main ah tactics that sanctuaries use to so fundraise is to you know to name all their animals. you know All the animals have names, like pets have names. And and then you know regular followers can can check the
00:16:26
Speaker
you know the you know what what their favorite rescued animal is up to. you know Without sanctuaries, the image of a pig is always going to be as this frightened victim rather than as an individual who enjoys life as much as a human enjoys life.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean one of the most, well the most I would say moving piece of footage I've ever seen with with regards to anything to do with veganism animal rights is of a pig that is taking its first steps or jumps and runs around on on some green grass at an animal sanctuary and you're absolutely right Carlos, without these places then we wouldn't be able to capture that that natural essence of of animals that are wonderful and and lovely and should be judged according to how they live in
00:17:14
Speaker
in the right circumstances and not be judged by how how they're having to endure the most barbaric of circumstances. And I mean, this is this is the work that that sanctuaries do and and do afford us and the possibilities they do afford us, isn't it, um in terms of making those connections and and actually hearing from things. I mean, my local sanctuary, Good Heart Animal Sanctuaries,
00:17:41
Speaker
like i say about ten ten miles away from me they will do tours and people will get to so speak honestly about the animals and what they what they enjoy when they're in animal agriculture that there's no way that any farm Open day i mean they do exist don't they open days and say oh come and see the farm anything yeah yeah you gonna show a certain bits of the farm on you there's certain bits of it you're definitely not gonna be showing us or telling us about that they're not able to be candid or open or honest where is actually my my experience of good heart.
00:18:16
Speaker
at at at least, was that that they were very honest, even if it was an uncomfortable truth that they were telling families or, or you know, individuals visiting. And I think that's that's part of their power. I mean, Mark, what other parts of sanctuaries would you say? what What power do they have or what opportunities do they bring sort of, I guess, in return for the for the hefty resources that time and and human and and financial that are being put in? I think it does. Just to to reinforce for what what were the two of you have been saying about how how it gives us the space and ah potential to reimagine or to rearrange relationship with with animals. you can go and visit You can go and visit these animals and you can go and help the sanctuary as Carlos is doing. And it gives you time and opportunity to build up a rapport with individual um animals. And it sort of makes the point
00:19:13
Speaker
The whole theory about animal rights, the whole sort of notion of it really is that animals are individuals and they have personhood. and sanctuaries exposes that truth, I think. It it ah allows these species. Karl Marx, for all the things that he got wrong, particularly about animals, he had this phrase called species being. He said the whole project of the whole Marxist, the whole communist thing, the whole idea of this communist struggle is for us all to realize what he called species being. He didn't call it human being, he called it species being. He actually referred to species and by that he meant the
00:19:50
Speaker
a society that enables the individual to flourish in whatever way he or she wants to, as long as that it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to equally flourish the way they want to. and I would include animals in that assessment. And ah sanctuaries ah allow that to happen. It allows us to see, and but most importantly, it allows the animal to become what it always should have been as nature intended to be, not a terrified, violently treated treated, shivering body of fear in some concrete hellhole out in the field, out in nature where nature intended it to be. And it allows those beings to realize their own
00:20:32
Speaker
being, if you like, and it allows us to experience that. And that is the whole point of animal rights. So it's bringing into focus. It's doing away. So you don't need to know the theory. You don't need to read Peter Singer to go along to an animal sanctuary and to see that you know sort of happening and to feel that as an emotional and intellectual response as well. Very, very powerful. And for some people, it'll be the thing, the trigger that will switch them from poor behavior or to appropriate behavior with animals. And I mean, we we see with with very young children who, you know, in in infant school and in preschool will be will be fed sort of cartoon images and stories about farmed animals and and on what things are like in the happy farmer and the jolly farmer and all look at the happy pig and, it you know, it talks to the happy cow and and what have you.
00:21:24
Speaker
well actually this is an example of of that actually happening and and it it not being a ah sick twisted lie, it's being fed to children and again in I mean, I don't know how unique ah my local sanctuary is, but I mean, they have, what is it on? It's on Airbnb. You can book visits there. That's the platform they use, but pretty much year round, you can go when you want. And obviously, you know, there are limits to how much interaction there there will be with every animal, because it's not, like you say, Carlos, it's not a commercial zoo. Then the animals are not there for the people, but you can more or less go
00:22:00
Speaker
whenever you like throughout the year so in in many ways it's a more accessible way of getting access to animals than even if you didn't know the difference going to your local farms open day that might be once a year if you if if you were lucky because they obviously have to ah you know make everything look perfectly nice and and and ready and can conceal lots of things they don't want you to see so I think in in that way it offers an advantage too.
Future Coexistence with Animals
00:22:26
Speaker
Animal sanctuaries also provide an answer to what a vegan future would look like, because often non-vegans ask the question, well, what happens to all these cows we have, all these pigs we have? How can we do we have just kill all the pigs, kill all the cows, just kind of make the species go extinct? And animal sanctuaries provide a real life path, I guess, or an example of what those lives could look like. Obviously, I don't even know how many how pigs exist in like
00:22:56
Speaker
commercially exploited pigs exist in the world at any given point. Obviously, I don't think it's possible to have that many in um and kind of care for them throughout their entire lifespan. um But, you know, and sanctuaries still show how it's possible for us to kind of coexist.
00:23:14
Speaker
and species. I guess in this case species that require animal ah human assistance to survive that have been kind of removed from the wild and require animal assistance to survive and and and you know humans how can we coexist so animal sanctuaries provide that example. Yeah absolutely.
00:23:31
Speaker
if if i can i'd like to round things off with a ah sort of broadening i suppose of the question we've started off by by discussing the matter of like specifically with regards to animal sanctuaries you know are they are they too resource heavy do they do that the ends justify um the means if you like if we could just broaden that out to just imagine a specific example of of somebody and let's not say it has to be an animal sanctuary. If you had a fellow vegan in your life in one way or another and you were perceiving that their efforts, no you know, what whatever it were, um
00:24:15
Speaker
were let's say not particularly efficient so there's a ah real focus on one particular thing and that's where all their energy is going and you sort of can't help thinking to yourself do you know what if you just put all that time and energy and maybe money in this slightly different direction surely that would be much better for the cause surely that would improve outcomes for animals more do you think it's fair game to say something or is it each to their own so long as you're not harming the movement, you know, you should go where you're your
Effort Allocation in Vegan Movement
00:24:49
Speaker
passion lies. well What do you think? Good question. um I guess it's it's a relatively subjective interpretation of someone else's um use of resources and so on. if If it's glaringly obvious, I think there's something to be said for it. I don't want to quote Marx again.
00:25:07
Speaker
and i'm not a model ah so and The communist movement and Marx and Engels in particular hated the rising Fabian socialist movement at the time ah who were many vegetarian and they hated a lot of things about them but particularly their vegetarianism.
00:25:25
Speaker
And I did a bit of ah bit of research into this. As I say, I'm not a Marxist, I'm more of an anarchist, but I'm interested in a lot of of how he interpreted the world around him. And I want to get to the bottom of why communists then and now are Not entirely, but but overwhelmingly opposed to the notion of animal rights. They don't just think it's it's it's boring or irrelevant. They think it's it's ah it's a distraction and should be done away with a lot of them. Not all of them, a lot of them. It's changing, but back in the day, in the 19th century, that was certainly the case. the The most plausible explanation for their vitriol against the vegetarian movement at the time
00:26:06
Speaker
is the ah the way they saw very posh bourgeois people pamper a dog, a poodle or a cat or something and treat with contempt the child's servants working around them and the working classes in general.
00:26:22
Speaker
and the notion of being kind to these people was anathema to them. But ah if if you know if you looked wrongly at their poodle, you know it was the it was the the end of days. So their ah opposition to vegetarianism wasn't an opposition to vegetarianism. It was an opposition to what they call a gross hypocrisy on behalf of people who should be redirecting their attention maybe a bit elsewhere you know and a bit more closer to home.
00:26:47
Speaker
And they had a point there. And when it's that extreme, I can go with that. But ultimately, if someone's really concerned about a certain thing, and they are doing what their passion tells them to do, don't stand in their way, just leave and get on it. As I say, if they're not harming the movement, and and so on, leave them at it, because you probably won't change your minds on the way. You know what people like us are like. We get really into something.
00:27:10
Speaker
and where hearts move to shake you know so and that's what they're like as well and if if ah an individual animal is benefiting from that then that's great for that animal you know. Yeah I would I i don't want to get into utilitarian arguments in the vegan movement of trying to maximize where each pound is spent or how things are spent. I'll leave that for the effective altruists. They can they can run the spreadsheets on their um their guilt, um not me, thanks. We all have different personalities, different upbringings, different experiences, and we kind of...
00:27:44
Speaker
tend to go where things make more sense for us. A lot of vegans could never be saps. I could never be, na actually, oh run an animal sanctuary. I know I couldn't, so I won't do it. But I like doing other things. um And so it was for other people. and And if their calling is to have a sanctuary, let them. you know If they're your friends and they seem to be maybe too idealistic, you know try to remind them that you know that's going to mean a lot of time.
00:28:15
Speaker
waking up at 5am every day to take care of animals, basically lead leading a farmer's life without the profit motif, a very harsh farmer's life, and relying on a very unsteady source of income, etc etc. They have to give up on a lot of stuff. you know But if that's what they want to do, if that's their calling,
00:28:37
Speaker
As a friend, I would just support them as always. Yeah, by all means. Yeah. I have a weakness as maybe a parent to regular listeners. I have a weakness for analyzing things and sort of critiquing things in a kind of like, I just generally find it interesting weighing things up and sort of, you know, pitting them against one another and saying, Oh, what about this? And what would be the effect of doing this? And I like that as a hypothetical exercise. And I think I learned from that and, you know, maybe others do too when I think in reality when it comes to being pragmatic, ah as you've both said, if somebody's passion and energies are going in a certain direction, that's the direction that that you know need to go in actually and that forms a big part of my professional work actually. I ah work with young people and you know we're we're all about self-direction and sort of a
00:29:29
Speaker
a more liberal approach to education i guess than the most people would and it is based on that that theory of like actually what drives you what motivates you is the stuff that you're gonna do the best and you're gonna be most interested in you're gonna get the most from it and other people are gonna get the most from it so um yeah all for that and uh and bring on the diversity of the movement i say that If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy
Listener Engagement
00:30:00
Speaker
it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free enough of the falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player. That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
00:30:27
Speaker
Well, thank you Carlos and thank you Mark for your contributions there. Thanks everyone for listening too. We definitely wouldn't do this without you. We love hearing from you lovely listeners. Get in touch with us via enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com. If you disagree with anything we've said in the show, maybe you've got a different take. If you've got a favourite animal sanctuary, let us know. It would be really interesting to hear. We know our listenership stretches all the way around the world be great to hear what your local animal sanctuary is like and maybe if someone is holidaying or lives near you that would be a nice little destination and a way to support the really brilliant work that goes on in animal sanctuaries. And the next episode of vegan week will be on monday 27th of january and that will be the usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:31:19
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Anthony, for all your contributions. And thanks, everyone, for listening. I've been Carlos, and you've been listening to vegan talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:31:37
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:32:18
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring a brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course
00:32:44
Speaker
player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from