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151- Nandos' "passion about the environment", and its impact on chickens
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All those people sitting in Nandos are only there because of the company's love for the environment, right?!
In this episode, Ant & Julie examine the latest campaign against the chicken restaurant by environmentalists, concerned about the impact of the poultry industry on the nearby River Wye...but is there any mention of alternatives that might actually improve outcomes for these innocent birds? As well as this story, we also look at eight other news articles from the vegan & animal rights space from the last week or so.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.farminguk.com/news/activists-interrupt-nfu-president-s-speech-at-conference_66171.html
https://www.itv.com/news/2025-02-22/were-never-going-to-give-up-petition-to-ban-uk-dog-testing-gains-momentum
https://www.farminguk.com/news/study-calls-for-wolf-reintroduction-in-scottish-highlands_66149.html
https://plantbasednews.org/news/tech/cultivated-whole-cows-milk/
https://veganfta.com/2025/02/17/over-250-animals-rescued-from-horrific-conditions-on-ohio-fur-and-urine-farm/
https://myrepublica.nagariknetwork.com/news/activists-call-for-timely-introduction-strict-implementation-of-animal-welf-59-94.html
https://veganfta.com/2025/02/19/feral-pigs-discovered-in-cairngorms-park-in-scotland-have-been-killed/
https://www.idausa.org/campaign/animals-in-entertainment/latest-news/media-release-activists-protest-finals-day-of-tucson-rodeos-100th-year-of-animal-cruelty/
https://plantbasednews.org/news/environment/jim-murray-nandos-rivers/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Vegan and Animal Rights News Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for this week's vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode is Julie, but that's enough of the falafel, it's time for Vegan Week!
00:00:13
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Brrr! Take your lab grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick food.
00:00:41
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:56
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello everybody, Julie here. Welcome to this episode of Enough of the Falafel.
00:01:08
Speaker
Thank you very much for joining us. Indeed, indeed. You know who I am because I said so at the top of the show. i am Anthony. Very much looking forward to looking through this week's news and stuff with you all, whether it's your first time or whether this is your... Oh, I'm trying to think which episode we're on now.
00:01:25
Speaker
think we're on 151 now, but you you'll know if you're watching. Anyway, I'm falafeling on. Let's get to it and hear what has been going on in the news this week.
00:01:37
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:49
Speaker
Okay let's get straight to some hard pitting in your face activism going
PETA's Carrot Protest at Farmers Conference
00:01:55
Speaker
on. Two activists representing PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the United Kingdom branch that is.
00:02:03
Speaker
They stormed the NFU's conference in London, that is the National Farmers Union. Their conference in London, the capital city earlier today whilst the union's president was giving a speech they they got all very punny as well they were sort of dressed up as carrots with root for the planet as in root vegetables root for the planet go vegan And as often goes with these things, they were sort of, there was there were boos and eventually there and their little placard was was torn off and and people cheered.
00:02:36
Speaker
But they got their message across. This is reported on Farming UK. It's been reported in lots of other places. Julie, nice to see a bit of a we see that as a bloodied nose, would you say, for the NFU for their conference? Or are they yeah theyre just pissing in the wind?
00:02:52
Speaker
i I think the latter, to be honest with you. and They weren't the only people staging protests at that conference. There was a massive protest at that conference outside the conference and within it.
00:03:05
Speaker
Steve Reid, the Environment Secretary, he got his speech disrupted as well. The PETA people actually got very little coverage if you look online at all of the reports you know on what was going on at that conference.
00:03:20
Speaker
The Inheritance Statement tax absolutely dominated the mood on the day and the coverage afterwards because that's what people were focusing on that was the attendees chance to speak directly to ministers about their concerns and they were absolutely taking the ball and running with it and going for all of the sympathy votes and, you know, everything they could find.
00:03:47
Speaker
But, you know, nice try, PETA. But what i would say is it was a wee bit of a missed opportunity because I don't think there was any attendees there wondering whether or not they should go vegan or not.
00:04:02
Speaker
But there were, it seems, plenty of attendees there wondering about the future viability of their animal ag farm.
00:04:13
Speaker
So that's where I would have had my starting point if I had wanted to get into a dialogue with farmers that were there. Obviously, there were farmers there that are involved in arable farming, therefore they're already doing it. There is a fairly big segment of the a National Farmers Union which is solely for people involved in horticulture who are already growing plants.
00:04:38
Speaker
I would be talking to them as well and and giving them all the praise, but what I would be doing if I was PETA and I was there, I would be getting a foot in the door to have conversations with people who've got access to big areas of land, great big buildings and machinery and are worried that their business isn't going to be viable in the future.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I would be saying, I'm with you. Yes, you're right. It probably isn't. Now, I wonder what you might be able to do instead that might be a bit more future proof than... raising animals to feed people.
00:05:14
Speaker
I would be having a more that kind of conversation than getting two women in carrot masks, shouting in high-pitched, posh voices, you know, root for the planet, go vegan. that They just became objects of ridicule, in my opinion. and And please know that I love PETA with all my heart and 99% of the things they do.
00:05:38
Speaker
But I think that missed the mark on this occasion. Some attention isn't isn't better than none sometimes. I think you're absolutely right with with those points. it's some I think perhaps sometimes when when we're looking at organisations, we're kind of looking at two organisations here really, aren't we, Peter and the NFU?
00:06:00
Speaker
we can forget that actually that the the strategies that are best to use, you you can still use human beings, individual human beings as an analogy, can't you? in in that If that was two human beings talking to one another, they they've, as you've said, they've misjudged the audience and the timing and the subject matter and and things like that. But because it's kind of like Peter versus NFU, we can lose that a little bit, but it's still about like recognising,
00:06:30
Speaker
what are the most appropriate opportunities and and timings. You know, you wouldn't you wouldn't try and, I don't know, for want of a better example, you wouldn't want to try and persuade your granny to go vegan at your granddad's funeral, you know. yeahs They were just pitching in the wrong way for that audience, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. Well, maybe maybe some people won't won't read the article and they'll just just see the headline. Who knows? Maybe a little crumb of comfort there somewhere.
Lab-Grown Milk: The Future of Dairy?
00:06:57
Speaker
So a Boston based startup has created whole milk using mammalian cell culture with plans for a trial launch in 2026.
00:07:10
Speaker
Unreal milk made by Brown Foods. I don't know why I don't like that name very much. It's thought to be identical to milk from cows at a molecular level.
00:07:22
Speaker
The milk is undergoing independent testing by the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research, according to Forbes. Tests show that unreal milk contains the same dairy proteins and brown foods says it has the same fats and carbohydrates as found in cow's milk.
00:07:43
Speaker
Well, Anthony, what do you think of that? Well, i was I was looking at it. I mean, i obviously, like that there will be lots of people who um are vegan and will see this as ah is a great thing because it's another opportunity for people to, ah admittedly a future opportunity, because it's not really there and available yet, so but it's an opportunity for people to to have their cake and eat it, basically, isn't it? And say, well,
00:08:11
Speaker
um I really love the taste of dairy, um so I want to carry on consuming that taste. But if I can do so in a way where animals don't get involved, then then that's something to celebrate from an animal rights perspective. There's also going to be a lot of people, I suspect that you and I, Julian, a big part of our listenership might just say, yeah, I don't really care. Like, I'm i'm fine. I'm fine having plant milk or I'm fine just eating.
00:08:35
Speaker
not having anything that looks or tastes like milk. My main question with this was I couldn't really understand who it actually was for in that I just don't think people are ah really looking for alternatives, are they? that They're either saying, will have oat milk, or they're saying, well, I'll stick to to doing what I'm doing. And then i went on Unreal Milk's website,
00:09:03
Speaker
which admittedly there's not a huge amount of information. I think they've paid a very good graphic designer and because it's very striking, but actually I could probably write on a small scraggy piece of paper or the information that's on there.
00:09:15
Speaker
um You look at the three people who have um ah have got their sort of cartoon faces on there, and I would say they, judging by their names, they are of Indian ah dissent if not native from from India itself. Sorry, not Native American Indians. That's getting very confusing there.
00:09:35
Speaker
But I wondered whether that could be a market in that I've often been very surprised. I mean, there's there's lots of places near me. Birmingham, for example, got a huge Asian-British community um and where cows are held ah traditionally anyway.
00:09:54
Speaker
are held as as sacred, whereas of course they're completely exploited for their secretions in the dairy industry. And I've kind of thought to myself, well, why aren't they all vegan or why aren't they all at least dairy free? Because it's horrific what happens to cows, even if they continue to eat pork or whatever.
00:10:12
Speaker
But I wondered whether that could be a market actually. But this is still coming from cows. It's cows mammaries that are used for this because that was my question when I read it. And that's why I went on the Unreal Milk website because I thought it says using mammalian cell culture. And my first question was whose mammaries are getting fiddled with for this?
00:10:34
Speaker
But it's actually cows mammaries. So it is cow's milk. It is cow's milk. It sells from udders that are getting something magic done to them that means that they start producing milk of their own accord, which I think is absolutely mind-blowing.
00:10:54
Speaker
But it still is using cows. So the people from India who don't want to use cows, that's that. but And the people who are allergic to cow's milk presumably are still will be allergic to this.
00:11:06
Speaker
So I think the only people that this will please are the people who want to drink cow's milk but are worried about the carbon footprint and think that this is better.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's sort of an another step, like ah like a free range or ah or a grass fed or a humanely slaughtered, isn't it? Like, if you're really interested in and animal rights, and the rights of animals not to be exploited for our own purposes, this this doesn't tick the box. i mean No, definitely not. You could put these things on a continuum, and and depending on um because i've ah I've heard of some of these sort of fermented foods and things like that where the the theory is that you only need to take from one cow ever once and then that's it and it keeps going sort of like a ah sourdough starter culture um but a bit either either way it's it's promoting is promoting the idea that animals products and secretions are there for us so from a purely animal rights perspective it's
00:12:09
Speaker
It's not ticking the boxes, but well we'll see. I would genuinely fascinated to know in 30 years' time how what percentage of our calories as a as a nation, as ah as a global population,
00:12:25
Speaker
we're getting from this kind of food because I've just got a sneaky suspicion. It'll be one of those things we'll look back and on and go, oh, do you remember when we thought that everyone would be having cell-based chicken and we thought that that would be it and actually turned out no one wanted it because the vegans didn't want it and the carnists didn't want it.
00:12:43
Speaker
I don't know. That's my hunch. Yeah, be a small sector of people who want, these folk who are really right on environmentally but don't give a toss about animals. It'll suit them. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's move on to another thing that's not quite happened yet, but Momentum is
UK Petition Against Dog Testing Gains Traction
00:13:00
Speaker
building. That is specifically a petition to ban dog testing In the UK, ITVX, British TV channel, their news site say that this is gaining momentum as activists condemn barbaric treatment. We reported on the legal battles that have been going on with MBR Acres in last week's news show.
00:13:21
Speaker
um And this is this is related because animal rights campaign is outside this site in Cambridgeshire where but beagles are being bred, um to be tested on a nine-year-old called Isabel from Birmingham near me has apparently teamed up with animal rights campaigners from Camp Beagle um to put this petition in place. It's got almost 200,000 signatures in a week. So I imagine I've ah've done it. Have you checked this today, Julie? I wonder where they were past to. I have. Did you see what they were on?
00:13:53
Speaker
Yes. So when I signed the petition this afternoon, which was a nice, easy project, people, please do it. You go onto a website called thecampbeagle.com and not only can you sign that petition as an individual,
00:14:09
Speaker
but you can print off a form which you can take to events or to your workplace where you might find like-minded gatherings of people and they can then sign that form which you can forward to Camp Beagle. So you can do it sort of en masse as well.
00:14:27
Speaker
But when I signed it, I think i was it was up to 222.111 or something. And then just before i kind of did something else this afternoon, I looked again and it had already jumped up. So the last time I looked, it was 222.143.
00:14:47
Speaker
So it's just building. It's great. so it's just building it's great You're normally so productive, Julie, but I'm just picturing you today just getting far less done because you just keep going on just to see the counter. How are they doing? they doing more? they doing more? It's great news though, isn't it? Really great news.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, over 100,000 signatures, to debated. So... it needs to be debated so It's beyond even them just having consider it, that's 10,000. But in after 100,000, it has to be debated.
00:15:20
Speaker
So we're well over that and it just shows you the strength of feeling. But please don't think that just because we're over the 100,000 that it's not worth signing it because it definitely is. We really need to show people the strength of feeling And don't get hung up like I did with my gut reaction about, well, this is speciesist because this is only about testing on dogs. What about the other animals? Because dogs are not the ah animal that is tested on the most in laboratories in Britain.
00:15:50
Speaker
and The animal that is tested on the most are mice and rats. and Dogs are quite, sort of, technically quite a small proportion in a way, but they are...
00:16:03
Speaker
a kind of a good win and the people at Camp Beagle, God bless them, I love them all, they are under no illusion that they would stop if they got the testing on dogs banned.
00:16:15
Speaker
They are not stopping there. They are wanting to stick up for all animals. But they are starting with dogs. Yeah, it's it's it's really it's really important to to keep that momentum going, isn't it? And and things do affect one another, don't they? you know it's If you imagine how we how we get towards ah a vegan world, yeah, sure, testing on dogs is going to come before testing on rats. Of course it is.
00:16:41
Speaker
But to to end all of that... You need to start somewhere, don't you? i am We spoke a couple of weeks ago about the a member of a hunt organisation and saying, God, is that the best spokesperson they could come up with?
00:16:56
Speaker
the yeah The spokesperson for MBR Acres, or no, specifically Understanding Animal Research, who was sort of speaking on their behalf, I think falls into the same category of, really, is that the best person you could come up with?
00:17:07
Speaker
They said that animal testing is conducted only when there is no alternative. That is a load of rubbish. yeah I know. a Oh dear.
00:17:18
Speaker
Oh dear. Never mind. Well, a bit of a sad story, which is also connected with animal testing now.
Animal Rescue at Ohio Fur Farm
00:17:27
Speaker
and Authorities in Ohio in the US have confiscated more than 250 non-human wild animals.
00:17:35
Speaker
non-human wild animals including foxes, coyotes, wolf-dog hybrids, I didn't even know that was a thing, and skunks from a fur and urine farm in Ashtabula County because of horrific conditions in which they were being kept.
00:17:56
Speaker
The last of the animals were removed from the property on the 18th of January 2025,
00:18:03
Speaker
Sadly, some animals were euthanised because they were critically injured or sick, and the rest were taken to wildlife rehabilitation facilities and animal sanctuaries.
00:18:14
Speaker
Adam Parascondola, Vice President of the human Humane sorry World for Animals Animal Rescue Team, said in a statement, this is one of the most horrific situations I have ever seen.
00:18:29
Speaker
The terror and pain was palpable. Her team is exposed to immense cruelty in the criminal cases we regularly respond to like dog fighting and severe neglect.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yet this stands out both in terms of suffering and because of these fur farming practices. Yeah, a really, really sad story. um I mean, it's it's always good that these things are ah reported on.
00:18:58
Speaker
Of course, you know we'd never say anything like, you know, these these animals have been and sacrificed and and, you know, their their story lives on sort of thing. ah Definitely don't believe anything like that.
00:19:09
Speaker
But if these things are to have happened, at least they're being reported on, I think is is is my my take. I mean, that ah the whole fact of there being a urine farmer, I mean, I had to look that up and and understand what that is for.
00:19:24
Speaker
I mean, we've we've mentioned before about trail hunting and fox urine being used for that. That's part of... of why there are these urine farms also used in trapping, dog training, and as a wild animal deterrent.
00:19:39
Speaker
for gardeners. So it it just goes to show like any kind of animal use, there's exploitation at the end of it somewhere. If you if you follow it, you know, if we're if we're using anything to do with animals for our own ends, there's exploitation at the end of it somewhere.
00:19:53
Speaker
And i think all of the quotes from Humane World for Animals show that this was a a really, really terrible, extreme case. Now, I think for me that it shows why animal use is not okay. Even if 90% of the time it was done completely complicitly and and fine and there were no issues with it. if If you go into like an abandoned house or an abandoned shop or something like that and things are left in a derelict state or it's not going very well, that doesn't matter.
00:20:29
Speaker
It's just things. It's just bricks. It's just boxes of mugs or or whatever it is that's been left abandoned. But In the case where you where you are systematically using living sentient beings as part of your organisation, your industry or whatever, when it goes wrong, which I think I would argue is pretty much all of the time, but in extreme cases like this, it goes really bloody wrong.
00:20:56
Speaker
And i think some people would point to this and say that's an extreme case and it's an outlier. Well, it might be an extreme case as an outlier, but actually how much worse than the norm does it have to be for the norm to not be okay would be how I would take it. But i good on the authorities and the people who've grasped this institution up to the authorities for sorting things out.
00:21:20
Speaker
And I mean, it seems like the local not-for-profits and animal caring community have got their hands for because there's a lot of animals now that need rehoming. But um I think West Wildlife Rehab um in southwest Ohio are one of the organisations who are ah doing their best to rehome.
00:21:40
Speaker
And as well as saying how disgusting they found things, um that they're trying their best to find homes for some of these animals. So um good for them, but a horrid, horrid story.
00:21:51
Speaker
We're going to stay on the subject of wolves, but we're going to jet over the Atlantic from Ohio to Julie's neck of the woods because we found out from Farming UK that study has called for wolf reintroduction in the Scottish
Wolves in Scotland: A Climate Solution?
00:22:07
Speaker
Highlands.
00:22:07
Speaker
Goodness me, what could this mean? Why would we want to do such a thing? Well, these researchers reckon it could help tackle climate change. um This was a University of Leeds study, so UK-based study.
00:22:19
Speaker
um And they reckon it will help the UK reach net zero. It could lead to an expansion of native woodland, which could take in and store 1 million tonnes of CO2 annually, researchers say.
00:22:31
Speaker
And I was reading this thinking, hang on, how could introducing wolves... and like increase native woodland like are they going to be planting trees well no this is based on a predator prey model so basically red deer populations are growing red deer populations are eating tree saplings so if we introduce the wolves then the wolves will eat the deer and then the trees can grow julie what a brilliant idea what could possibly go wrong
00:23:01
Speaker
Well, you're saying that red deer populations are growing. Are they? Or is the space that they have to live on getting smaller so that looks like they're growing?
00:23:11
Speaker
You know, are the people growing so the red deer are more obvious and getting in the way of our development plans and all the rest of it? I don't know.
00:23:23
Speaker
I think that red deer are the same as foxes in that they will regulate their populations themselves. I don't know that they're growing, to be honest with you.
00:23:35
Speaker
and But yeah, whatever. As you'll know from the rewilding episode we did, I'm not in favour of introducing wolves to a Scotland, not because I don't like wolves, but just because I don't think we should be fiddling about with animals and their populations. Where are we going to get these wolves from?
00:23:56
Speaker
m how will they be moved? What will their welfare be in that process and in their life getting transplanted into another place?
00:24:06
Speaker
How will their numbers be controlled because not that I would want to control their numbers necessarily, but humans always want to control animals' numbers. So if they're worried that the deer don't have any predators, neither will the wolves. So will they become something that is then controlled by hunting? And...
00:24:27
Speaker
While we still have poor little fields full of abused animals in the agriculture industry, they would be extremely vulnerable to being attacked by wolves. If we didn't have that, then maybe, you know, if we had an entirely rewilded world where there weren't any animals in agriculture who were sort of enclosed in fields and vulnerable, then maybe...
00:24:54
Speaker
but I would worry about all of that. What I would say, just as a little bit of light on the horizon, it is worrying if trees are getting destroyed.
00:25:06
Speaker
I would say that expansion of housing and urban development and all the rest of it is destroying a lot more trees than a red deer is. But If we were concerned, and we should be concerned, about protecting plantations from m red deer, although I don't know what they're supposed to eat if they can't eat the trees, I have stumbled across um an incredible project called Willow World.
00:25:42
Speaker
It's a community-led research project supported by the Royal Society of Edinburgh and they use willow to make structures called fedge and that redirects the deer and saves trees.
00:25:58
Speaker
It acts as a tree guard instead of these plastic tree guards as well as a carbon capturing and wildlife enabling force of nature. You literally just plant willow around your tree plantation and sort of weave it together and it keeps the deer away.
00:26:15
Speaker
It's a win-win. Yeah. Well, this is it. Like, weever as well as being a cruel species, we are often... quite clever and and and good at coming up with solutions to problems, it really does seem like a yeah ridiculous solution to say, oh, we'll just let wolves kill them. is that Really, is that the only way that you can protect some trees from some red deer?
00:26:39
Speaker
um And I think as well, just just learning from the experience of our European neighbours where wolves and bears and and ah other such animals have been either reintroduced or their populations have have grown.
00:26:54
Speaker
It doesn't take many humans to be injured or killed by these animals just behaving in their natural way for then tens of thousands. of those non-human animals to be culled. So i i would I would have that concern as well. you know It just takes one one Scottish runner or one person visiting Scotland to go off the the wrong path on a hike or something and get a bit spooked by it. And then all of a sudden there'll be licenses to shoot tens of thousands of wolves.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. think, you know, I don't think this will go ahead anyway, but I think the people who are pushing for it, they're thinking, well, we could pick up some wolves somewhere. I don't know how they're going to do that. um They need 167 or something.
00:27:42
Speaker
And, you know, whether they then let them breed or they neuter them first, I do not know. But then they're thinking, oh, well, if for all goes wrong, we just can kill them all again like we did before. and just...
00:27:53
Speaker
No, you can't treat animals like some kind of expendable resource that you just, you know, breed from and increase and then kill off and then bring back, you know, at your will.
00:28:04
Speaker
If humans messed up in the first place, they're not going to mess up any less by doing more interfering, I don't think. I think just let it be. and aim let's not bother having wolves.
00:28:18
Speaker
the the The land is a very different place from the last time there was wolves living in Scotland. Things have changed a lot. I don't know that they would thrive and I would worry that they would then become a hunted species.
00:28:31
Speaker
So going over to ah bit of a gentler story now and one with a bit of hope in it.
Nepal's Push for Animal Welfare Laws
00:28:39
Speaker
Animal welfare activists in Nepal have emphasised the need for the timely introduction followed by strict implementation of the Animal Welfare Act to address the problems of the cruel treatment of animals.
00:28:57
Speaker
An interaction program held in Kathmandu on Saturday, pioneer animal rights activist Shia Srena highlighted the comparative development of animal welfare laws and related governmental bodies to safeguard the rights of animals in India to emphasize the urgent need of similar laws and governmental bodies in Nepal too.
00:29:23
Speaker
When asked about the ineffective implementation of the law in India, Shreya asserted that the introduction of such laws in itself sets a fear factor among the people who act cruelly towards animals.
00:29:39
Speaker
Yeah, it it was an interesting story, this one. I would say at the outset, ah ah fairly obviously, I think probably, ah my understanding of Nepalese culture and you know the context of the country at the moment is basically next to zero.
00:29:56
Speaker
So whilst I might sit here and say, this is great news, isn't this fabulous that this progress is being made, which which is my instinctive stance to take, It might well be that there are vegans, animal rights activists in Nepal who are saying, no, this is not enough. We need to do more.
00:30:14
Speaker
We've been dragging our heels on this for ages. So I just want to acknowledge that at the outset. I think what was interesting in this story for me was the comparisons, as you've said, Julie, the comparisons that have been made between Nepal's progress here and their neighbours here.
00:30:31
Speaker
in India where there has been a Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act since 1960 and an Animal Welfare Board since 1962. And in one of our opening stories, we were talking um about the the whole sort of, if you can compare yourself too to a neighbour or something like that, where where things are being moved forward quicker.
00:30:55
Speaker
That can, with with regards to animal testing, for example, you know, if testing on dogs is banned, then all of a sudden people start looking at testing on rats. And like I think it does just show how things can progress. And that sort of um wanting to keep up with the Joneses sort of thing can can actually, ah we we can use that.
00:31:16
Speaker
in our animal advocacy, I think, sometimes. The whole statement of saying that introducing laws sets a fear factor amongst the people who act cruelly towards animals, I think in some cases that's the case. If you if if you follow the link in the show notes and look at the article, people have highlighted that actually, in some instances, the the fines and what have you just get absorbed by by companies in India. So then there might be a fine, but it might be 1% of the revenue generated from the illegal activity anyway.
00:31:51
Speaker
So i I think for the everyday law-abiding person, yes, there being a law in place will put in a fear factor. But for for companies that this is a routine operation for them.
00:32:05
Speaker
I don't necessarily think that would be the case. And indeed, she would I think she was using this and as an example saying, well, you know even if this weren't to be, even if we didn't have the resources to implement this law and enforce it, it would still be better than it not being there. And I would agree with that.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's better to have a law that's not implemented than not have the law in the first place. obviously you mont telling yeah Obviously, you want it to be implemented too and enforced too.
00:32:36
Speaker
um But if we're talking about, you know, in what order we want the steps to happen, having the law is as important and an important thing and great that it's being pressured and being discussed and hopefully we'll be able to report soon that it's actually happened.
00:32:51
Speaker
Absolutely. I don't know anything about India at all. But what I do know is that when I watched an interview with John Curtin from Camp Beagle, you know that well, he's not just from there, but we we spoke about on last week's show, i massively active people.
00:33:08
Speaker
vegan and animal rights activist that's what he talks about when he's asked to talk about the history of animal rights he says you can't talk about the history of animal rights without starting in India that's where it all began that's what it's all about India India India so I didn't know that but obviously their standards are really high so if Nepal are kind of, you know, judging themselves or being judged on those standards.
00:33:39
Speaker
That's a good standard to say, I think. So that's, ah I think, is a very positive story from that regard. Yeah, absolutely. went When I had a cafe, we we had several pieces of art that had been put together by a vegan artist.
00:33:54
Speaker
um And one of them um had three bowls of food, one from India, um one from China and one from can't remember the other one. um But this and the statement was it began before vegan, with the idea being that before the word vegan was coined in 1944, there were still people advocating on behalf of animals and and choosing to to eat food that avoided their secretions. And um yeah, I think the Christspiracy film, um i don't know if you've watched that one yet, Julie. I haven't.
00:34:28
Speaker
you saw some of the amazing work done by Indian animal advocates, the really passionate people working up against the odds as well. So yeah, definitely big culture of that over there. So good for them. Right, we're going to be back in a moment. We're going to talk about our picks of the week. I'm going to America and Julie is staying put in Scotland.
00:34:57
Speaker
Right, come on then, Julie. You get the ball kicked off here. Talk to us about what's been discovered in Cairngorms. Have I said that right? Cairngorms Park? Cairngorm's National Park. Oh, this is not a happy story at all.
00:35:12
Speaker
Last month, nine, this sounds like it's a fairy tale starting, nine little feral pigs were discovered in Cairngorm National Park.
00:35:23
Speaker
And they were thought to be hybrids between domestic pigs and wild boars. They were also thought to have been abandoned and illegally released.
00:35:35
Speaker
So they were captured, moved to a Forestry and Land Scotland location and then shot. Now, when you read a lot of reports about this story, you will see different words used for the death of these innocent little animals and the word humanely will be in front of most of them.
00:36:01
Speaker
so there have been people writing that they've been humanely destroyed, which makes people think that they were given an injection, you know, like you might get your beloved pet put to sleep and am humanely killed has been used.
00:36:17
Speaker
They were shot as far as I can find and whatever method of killing, there was nothing humane about it. They were young, fit, healthy animals, presumably that wanted to live and and there only, well, there was nothing they'd done wrong.
00:36:37
Speaker
They were just living their lives and they'd been released. And it's a good example of why we shouldn't be messing about deciding some animals go here, they don't go there. We put a certain number there. Oh, there's too many now. Oh, there's not enough of those or whatever. So it was upsetting to see Ross Ewing, who is...
00:37:01
Speaker
the this is his job title get this director of moorland as if moorland you know what mean it's like oh it can't just exist in its own right it needs a director and they need to be a human being you know it's amazing that these moorlands coped for for thousands of years before we had human directors i mean goodness yeah what what a close shave that was I know. So good old Ross, directing the moorland right, left and centre at Scottish Land and Estates, said there are only tragic consequences if humans decide that these animals need to be killed.
00:37:42
Speaker
Well, do you know what? There are only tragic consequences if humans, you know what mean, start interfering and messing about in the first place.
00:37:54
Speaker
You know, it's not like they didn't need to be killed. They didn't need to be killed. That's the thing. So of all the places that nine little half-wild but quite tame, by some accounts, little pigs could live without annoying anybody, it would be Cairngorms National Park.
00:38:16
Speaker
Do you know how big Cairngorms National Park is? It is 1,748 square miles. seven hundred and forty eight queer miles So, you know, you're not talking big housing estates or anything in there.
00:38:32
Speaker
To give you a few stats that I found, a quarter of Scotland's native forest is in that one park. A third of the yeah UK land above 600 metres is in that park.
00:38:46
Speaker
And a quarter of the rare and endangered species in the UK are in that park. It's massive. It's more or less unspoiled and there's not really anybody actually living in there.
00:39:02
Speaker
you know what mean? It's just a beautiful big space and I think those pigs would have been just fine but that's just me. I find that just such a sad story and just so sad that there are people in positions of authority who felt that there was no other course of action that they could take and that that was the thing to do.
00:39:26
Speaker
And do you know what's even worse about it? Was they were put through the whole process of being transported, know, captured and then transported somewhere and then killed. you know what? See if they were going to kill them. Should just to kill them where they were.
00:39:39
Speaker
At least they would have spared them that. It just seems horrible thing to do to little innocent animals. Somebody obviously felt that that place was right for them, you know? It it does show that, I mean, it's it's wonderful that rewilding and the value of nature and just leaving leaving nature to do its thing, i i think that is starting of the very, very smallest little seeds and saplings of animals.
00:40:10
Speaker
I don't know if you could call it a renaissance, but but people are starting, some people are starting to see the value of that who who perhaps um didn't ordinarily have that awareness and I'd include myself in that too but we are still the minority and actually there's there's going to be a lot more instances like this before we get to where we want to be unfortunately um but you know is all the more important why why we
00:40:42
Speaker
educate ourselves with with what's going on, um understand the the science and the ideological arguments behind it, um and and as much as possible, be resilient to these setbacks and and keep banging the drum and and keep putting the message out there because it it's one that is sound and it's one that we need, we desperately need.
00:41:04
Speaker
um for our planet and for the the sentient beings on it, including ourselves. But it's going be a long old slog, isn't it? And yeah, unfortunately, there's going to be more than just these little piggies that are victims of it. um we got I just want to give a shout out for for vegan, for the animals, veganfta.com, where...
00:41:24
Speaker
and We got that story from and another one this week, too. they They put some great stuff out there. So subscribe to their stuff if you don't already. I reckon. Yes, absolutely.
00:41:36
Speaker
So, Anthony, you would like to talk to us about rodeos.
Rodeo Protests in Tuxon
00:41:41
Speaker
Well, I would. i'd I'd specifically like to talk about the people who are protesting them. I imagine most of our listeners are aware of what a rodeo is.
00:41:51
Speaker
There'll be events outside of North America that ah that are similar, I imagine, but the sort of traditional image of a rodeo is definitely an American a Canadian race. thing and it sort of generally involves animal exploitation specifically you know bulls or sometimes horses or animals like that um and you're you're trying to keep on the keep on the bronco as it's bucking around and it's it's really clearly animal exploitation it's not ah I don't know you if you do a bit of research on
00:42:25
Speaker
on greyhound racing for example it's clear that there is horrible stuff going on but you know if my granny were to watch greyhound racing she might say oh that's lovely the dogs are going for a run isn't that nice rodeo is not like that rodeo is clearly clearly animal abuse And ah this story comes to us from the In Defence of Animals website, IDAUSA.org. It is the Tuxon's Rodeo's 100th year of activity. And the the headline on the website is that activists are protesting the finals day of Tuxon Rodeo's 100th year of animal activity.
00:43:03
Speaker
Cruelty. And there is a picture of a load of people with their placards out protesting it. they They did it on the opening day and they do it on the finals day and they have done it many, many years. And I just wanted to to give a spotlight um and a shout out to them because in many ways you could look at that and you could say this event has been going on for 100 years.
00:43:25
Speaker
consecutive years, like this is this is an awful thing, it's endemic, it's entrenched in that culture, in this particular one, it's one of the biggest in North America, um it's in Arizona, ah towards the Mexico border. and it's been going on for so long, wouldn't it be easy to lose hope? Wouldn't it be easy to think, oh gosh, let's just go for some low hanging fruit. you know Let's go talk to some vegetarians and see if they'll they'll consider stop drinking milk or whatever.
00:43:53
Speaker
But these people are out there I've not personally ever protested outside horse racing, for for example, but i know several people that have and that they will speak of the fact that the vast majority of people walking past are not happy that you're there and they will make that clear.
00:44:10
Speaker
So these people have, you know, in the heat and in a hostile environment, they're sticking up for what they believe. They're sticking up for animals. And you know what? Like good for you and and good for anyone.
00:44:25
Speaker
who is is doing that in a situation where you might think, oh gosh, what's the point? Is this making a difference? Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Like even if you you're just one person stood there with a placard or saying, I don't agree with this, goodness, the power that that has.
00:44:43
Speaker
And we can we can all do that to a degree that we feel comfortable with. And maybe from time to time, we can stretch our comfort zones. But There's stuff that you can do if you're not in Tuxon. I may have just left a review on their Google um they ah on google Maps, so the Tuxon Rodeo. There's 140 reviews already. You can add review number 142 if you want because I've just added review number 141.
00:45:11
Speaker
But more specifically and perhaps more directly, there is, if you follow the link in our show notes, In Defense of Animals have got um lots of different things you can do. You can send um a message to the local government in the area. You can send messages to the people there.
00:45:30
Speaker
There's a whole list of actions. that you can take. Currently, what at the time of this article going out, which was February the 24th, nearly 16,500 people have signed In Defence of Animals Alert, urging the Tuckson City Council to ban electric shock devices.
00:45:48
Speaker
um that the rodeos say are used sparingly and only in exceptional circumstances despite the fact that there's so much video and photographic evidence of them basically being used whenever the heck these these animal handlers want to do it. So a small step and obviously we'd like to see the rodeo completely shut down.
00:46:10
Speaker
i think probably that's ah a little way off or am I being a bit pessimistic there Julie? do like Well You know, if people, if there are any cowboys out there who are just thinking, oh, please don't take my rodeo away from me because I like nothing better in the world than to sit on the back of an animal and have my bollocks bashed to bits trying to stay on its back while it's bucking around the place, you know.
00:46:40
Speaker
That's where I get my kicks in life. You know, I don't know what went wrong, but that's where it's at for me. Well, the good news is I've been in pubs in the UK. I'm sure they must have these in America too, where there's an actual machine which you can sit on and it will buck you around really hard, really randomly.
00:47:03
Speaker
And if that's your jam, you can get your kicks that way. It's just as tricky, I'm sure. And there's no, m you know, animals to have to worry about in that scenario.
00:47:17
Speaker
And you can do it in the pub and you can show people whatever it is they're trying to prove to people about themselves, they can do it on one of these mechanical bulls. you know, I have the strongest inside thighs of any cowboy in this town, or, you know, i have the most insensitive bollocks of anybody because, look, I can manage this situation and stay on and all that.
00:47:43
Speaker
Whatever it is, I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's one here for just under £2,000, which I think if you shared that around... Yeah, and we I mean, you wouldn't just have your own personal one, would you? you'd you'd share Some people might, Anthony. We don't know what these people's lives are like, you know, and they might need to practice in between.
00:48:03
Speaker
But maybe instead of going to one of these rodeos with a placard, you could go over with a mechanical bull and just get people interested. And, they you know, because that thing could go for longer for them, you know, for the yeah for the cowboy who wants a longer experience. That could fit the bill for him, you know. yeah absolutely absolutely absolutely but and and you don't have to you don't have to feed it exactly you don't have to yeah it's a bit of oil from time to time yeah wg 40 indeed but yeah massive massive shout out to those those opposing that and like i say any any of the practice that is endemic in a country or a culture and you know you're one of the few or only voices you know standing up for animals like good for you and goodness me like keep up the good work because change will happen it it just will
00:48:57
Speaker
It just will. And it'll only happen because people are doing brave things like that. So good for you. If you know anybody or if you do something like that yourself, we would love to hear from you. We'd love to give you a shout out.
00:49:10
Speaker
Or indeed, if you found news stories that we've not covered, or if you particularly disagree or agree with anything we've said, we'd love to hear from you. Here's how to get in touch.
00:49:21
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:49:40
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, we've got time for just one more story. Now, it's become a bit of an annual tradition, but on 25th of December each year, we have a big fat vegan quiz of the year. And I'm going to give you one little quiz question now, listeners, okay?
Nando's Environmental Scandal
00:50:02
Speaker
What organization is this saying this statement, okay? This is their CEO. talking about their organisation. We care passionately about the environment and having a positive impact.
00:50:16
Speaker
What organisation do you think that is? My follow-up question is, would you be surprised to hear that that is Nando's? Yes, peri-peri-chicken fanatics, Nando's.
00:50:27
Speaker
They care passionately about the environment having a positive impact. Did you know? Well, let's hear some more. What could possibly... lead them to say such a clearly false statement.
00:50:37
Speaker
Well, this comes to us from Plant Based News um and it's come from James Murray, who they describe as an actor and river conservationist. He's called on the CEO of Nando's to commit to protecting UK rivers from pollution. Well, how are Nando's allegedly polluting UK rivers? Well, avid listeners of the show will remember that there have been there's a big campaign generally focused on the River Wye in the west of England and bits of Wales too.
00:51:10
Speaker
There's been a lot of pollution in the River Wye and a lot of that seems to stem from the chicken industry. And James Murray, this actor and river conservationist,
00:51:23
Speaker
He's appeared in a video published on YouTube, link in the show notes. The video is from the charity River Action UK and he is stood in the middle of a river. It's quite a striking video. And he is saying to the CEO, Mark, your chicken is killing our rivers. The industrial chicken farmers you buy your supplies from for your restaurants has literally polluted the river. Why?
00:51:47
Speaker
To death. And as I say, there's been a A backlash there has been a response from the CEO of Nando's. They have said, we care passionately about the environment and having a positive impact.
00:51:59
Speaker
We have a water policy in place for all our chicken supplies. We will meet with River Action and we are happy to discuss with them how this might be further improved. If you're not doing anything wrong, one is improving.
00:52:12
Speaker
We're not polluting the River White and our supplier has assured us that no manure is spread, stored or otherwise disposed of on any of the chicken farms we source from.
00:52:23
Speaker
But we will be conducting an independent third party audit to provide further assurances. Now this is reported further in the and media as well. So BBC Radio Gloucestershire have spoken to James Murray as well.
00:52:37
Speaker
He said that he's seen proof that Nando's suppliers are polluting the River Wye, causing algae blooms and suffocating aquatic life there. I mean, Julie, it's great that high profile people are getting behind this campaign. I've got to say when it first came out, am I right in saying the Lib Dems, the Liberal Democrats in the latest UK elections, they were making a big thing about clean water?
00:53:04
Speaker
weren't they? So I heard a bit of it from them, but it seems like this is getting a bit more momentum now, hopefully. I'm a bit interested in the fact that one of Nando's key chicken suppliers, apparently, called Avara Foods, they've already become involved in a lawsuit over alleged pollution and And that statement about no manure is stored, spread or otherwise disposed of on poultry farms that supply us.
00:53:38
Speaker
If they're not storing it, spreading it or disposing of it, what are they doing eating it? mean, what other what other things can you do with it shed loads of chicken manure?
00:53:52
Speaker
and I know that it does get treated and used as animal feed, but they surely can't use it all for that. But it does get used for feeding pigs and sometimes sheep, believe it or not. But Yeah, that doesn't leave many outlets for it.
00:54:10
Speaker
I would say straight off the thing that James Murray isn't vegan. So he's not saying let's not have chicken farms and he's...
00:54:22
Speaker
He's more or less kind of just saying, well, just don't put, you know, do what you like with the chickens, but don't pollute the rivers, to my mind, you know, and you just think, well, but that doesn't make it okay. He's taking an interesting angle as well, going for Nando's, because they are further down the chain.
00:54:40
Speaker
you know It's the actual intensively farmed chickens. you know It's their managers of the companies that run... I mean, it's the Avara Foods of this world that are polluting the river.
00:54:53
Speaker
And yes, Nando might be purchasing that. But it's just an interesting angle that he's gone for Nando's, I suppose, because they're a big name. He's not trying to say to...
00:55:05
Speaker
consumers don't buy this stuff because you're contributing he's not getting at the factory farms themselves he's targeting Nando's I think that is a ah bit of an interesting take on it I watched the video a couple of times and I didn't find it that powerful. I thought he just looked a bit vain and a bit attention-seeking, standing there in his suit in the river, you know, just kind of, hey, guys, look at me, you know, see me doing this crazy stunt, you know.
00:55:35
Speaker
But I didn't find it an animal rights message, but then he's not a vegan, so... Why should it be? But it's it's been useful, I think, getting the conversation going about pollution.
00:55:48
Speaker
I think there's an awful lot going on from the dairy industry going in the Y. mean, the chicken farms are big, but the dairy industry, I think, from what I've read and heard, is bigger even in the polluting terms for the Y River. I mean, any any rivers in in this part of the world that I live in, and I'm not i not too far from the Y myself, they are going to be targets because that there is so much animal agriculture in on on the England-Welsh border, that that sort of area.
00:56:20
Speaker
it It reminded me that that sort of strategy of going for Nandos rather than going for the consumer or going for the farm. of the tactics that have been used towards animal testing facilities in the past.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yes, direct action will be carried out against the animal testers themselves, but very often single-issue campaigners will go after the company that provides their internet or that provides their toilet roll or that provides blah, bla blah, blah. They'll just kind of try and sabotage them by taking away like a vital part. And I suppose, you know, Nando's the...
00:56:57
Speaker
insidious stuff that they do. If you're providing chicken for Nando's, that's going to be a significant part of your turnover, isn't it? Your business model is is going to be very much focused on that.
00:57:10
Speaker
And i mean, it was it was James Murray that but said this in in an interview at the very bottom of this article. As he said, they believe that na Nando's might actually pivot and change their approach. Whereas, you know, the Avara Foods, they're probably too entrenched in in what they're doing to to to change it much anyway. Whereas Nando's might say, well, we're going to do it differently but like like we said that's that's not a vegan message it absolutely not oh yeah we'll still slaughter loads of chickens but we will make sure their poo doesn't go in the river it goes somewhere else instead no no no try and talk to nandos about selling something better than dead chickens to people
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's the Nando's solution. They say Nando's are going to start becoming part of the solution. The solution isn't going to be that they're serving up this is not chicken or Gardein chicken fillets, you know. that's That's just not going to be it, is it?
00:58:09
Speaker
I don't know. so you know what? I've never been in a Nando's restaurant in my life and I've never seen any of their menus. But do they have anything in there that is that for people?
00:58:20
Speaker
you know what mean? Do they have a... They have vegan options. I don't i don't know why you would, and unless you're being dragged there against your will, I don't know why you would have a a vegan option at Nando's, why you would choose to go there. Well, just if you were in a mixed group, I suppose.
00:58:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I'm on their website now. Hummus with peri-peri drizzles, sweet potato wedges, not a huge amount. Spicy rice bowl. There we are. can have a bowl of rice. Mm-hmm.
00:58:47
Speaker
at Nando's, the great imitator wrap. Oh, I'm finding quite a lot of plant-based stuff on here. yeah Oh, I'm liking it. I like that. Right, next, next, enough of the falafel meetup. We'll go to Nando's, yeah? Well, you know what? I don't like it that much that would even give them actually my business. I don't go in places that are serving, do you know what I mean?
00:59:06
Speaker
Stuff as well that is dead animals. But just from the point of view of what it shows about where there's demand, I'm Under the starters, for example, everything, oh, no, there there is bits of bird after that, but everything at the top of that was looking all vegan, vegan, then vegetarian. I mean, they've got a fair bit. There must be some reasonable demand.
00:59:31
Speaker
i did i I didn't know they'd have any of that stuff. So that's good they've got something. I mean, this is maybe a topic for a future episode, but I have a real unhappiness with supporting a business where the the business is clearly predicated on animal use.
00:59:50
Speaker
So Burger King and McDonald's, I'm less averse to. I'm less averse to them, KFC or Nando's, because like in in the name, in the logo of Nando's and KFC, it's saying, no, our thing is chicken.
01:00:05
Speaker
Whereas Burger King... Oh, right. So I didn't know that about Nando's. I'm ignorant about them. Yeah, yeah that that their logo. There isn't a Nando's in East Lothian at all where I left. They're missing trip. Wait for it. Give it a few years.
01:00:17
Speaker
But yeah, for but for me, like Burger King, well, they're saying it's about burgers. McDonald's is about it being fast food. So you could imagine that being plant based, whereas Kentucky Fried Chicken being vegan. it's Oh, yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
But either way, they're all horrible. They're all horrible. And there'll be vegan places nearby. Support them. yeah I just thought it was a good sign that obviously some kind of pressure has been put upon them that um some people must have asked for plant-based stuff. So it just shows that the demand is even getting to a chicken-obsessed restaurant like Nando's. I just think that's a good sign.
01:00:51
Speaker
But no, it wouldn't make me eat there. Definitely not. Absolutely. Well, you will be pleased to know, just to finish off our Nando section, that under the soft drink section, Julie, available in Scotland, plant-based iron brew. Iron brew made from girls.
01:01:09
Speaker
Well, if you have enjoyed this episode as much as Julie loves an iron brew, then there is a little something you could do for us if you can spare a few moments. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
01:01:30
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:01:46
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:01:57
Speaker
Thank you everybody for listening. Our next episode of Enough of the Falafel will be a vegan talk episode and it will be available from Thursday the 6th of March and it will feature Anthony and Paul and myself, Julie, reviewing the short claymation film from 2010, Tegan the Vegan.
01:02:21
Speaker
teagan the vegan Absolutely. If you want to watch Tegan the Vegan before that episode breaks, head over to YouTube. ah the the The name Tegan is spelt like vegan, but with a T instead of a V. And yeah, it's about 11 minutes long.
01:02:36
Speaker
ah So give that one a watch beforehand if you would like. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Julie, for your contributions. Thanks, everyone, for listening. I've been Anthony and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:02:55
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsflat.com.
01:03:10
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
01:03:36
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course,
01:03:57
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:04:11
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.