Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
140- Angry man rams vegans with trolley!
93 Plays2 months ago
Blimey, that was a bit of week wasn't it?! In this episode, Julie, Dominic & Anthony examine a blustering week full of some of the most controversial and divisive stories we've seen since we started Enough of the Falafel: Angry shoppers yelling at Animal Rising demonstrators, dead piglets being dropped on doorsteps, elephants being denied legal personhood, and Julie getting suspicious that Dale Vince is making a bold claim that isn't his to make! In total we look at nine stories from the vegan & animal rights space from the last week or so.
****************
Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
*******************
This week's stories:
https://www.9news.com.au/national/dead-piglets-dropped-on-premiers-office-doorstep-in-animal-cruelty-protest/1e30f38e-4e1b-44bf-974a-01b3566fe1eb
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/01/16/stray-cats-sterilized-for-free-at-buddhist-temple-in-thailand/#:~:text=Nearly%20200%20stray%20cats%20were,%2DVaccinate%2DReturn)%20method
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c15znkk12xjo
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/media/chris-packham-meat-propaganda-campaign/
https://www.bude-today.co.uk/news/more-than-ps60000-raised-by-bude-group-757094
https://www.catalannews.com/culture/item/animals-in-a-landscape-or-replaced-with-figures-new-concepts-for-traditional-festivals
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/court-outlaws-animal-rights-groups-nazi-ad-dkmuhpw8
https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/animal-activists-and-shoppers-clash-in-supermarket-meat-aisle
https://www.soglos.com/news/business/stroud-business-opens-uks-first-fully-plant-based-workplace-canteen/24843/#:~:text=Ecotricity%20employees%20can%20tuck%20in,and%20avoids%20single%2Duse%20plastic.
****************
Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Dominic & Ant
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to your one-stop shop for this week's vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony and joining me for this episode are Dominic and Julie but that is enough of the falafel, it is time for vegan week.
00:00:22
Speaker
Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere without doing that in the state of Florida. Do they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute, you always pick me.
00:00:49
Speaker
long as you don't get the wee brunyant with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:57
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. I am Dominic, the person who can never fit the letter R too many times in the word protein and I'm really happy to be here. Thank you everyone for being here with us on this podcast. Hooray! Hello there everybody. Julie here but that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on in the news this week.
Animal Rights Protests: Methods and Perceptions
00:01:32
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
00:01:45
Speaker
Well, it was Blue Monday a few days ago. Everyone's supposed to be down in the dumps. But I would say from the tone of this week's Vegan and Animal Rights News, everyone's feeling a bit, a bit crabby, a bit, I don't know, like they they're wanting to be controversial. Starting with our first story, which comes to us from the state of Victoria in Australia, where some dead piglets have been displayed at the doorstep of the the person who's in charge of Victoria, Vikinta Allen. She's the premier.
00:02:13
Speaker
of Victoria so she's had these dead piglets displayed on the doorstep of her office as part of an animal welfare protest this is according to nine news we might not say it's animal welfare but anyway this is a protest against conditions in Victoria's slaughterhouses in Australia dozens of protesters stood outside treasury place behind the 20 dead animals which were laid out on a white sheet surrounded by flowers. Farm Transparency Project, an organization behind this, their executive director, Chris Delforce, said the baby pig symbolized the Premier's inaction and her cowardice, strong words, with respects to the animal welfare emergency. So last month, the Victorian government officially responded to the parliamentary inquiry into pig welfare.
00:03:01
Speaker
which recommended an end to some of the most barbaric practices still used in the majority of Victorian figurines. This is still the words of Chris Delforce. um However, he went on to say that Allen government opted to ignore the overwhelming evidence presented to it that this is an industry that is rotten to its core, utterly dependent on abuse and secrecy and beyond redemption, an industry that must be urgently phased out now in response the Allen government said it welcomed the findings of this inquiry and supported 16 of its 18 recommendations it didn't however support the recommendation to establish an independent body to ensure compliance of animal protection laws nor to mandate the reporting of
00:03:47
Speaker
artificial insemination. Dom, it's all kicking off and very very evocative scenes there really. is all kicking off whenever i read a story like this aye try to imagine what i think my friends who are not vegan would think and I try and think well how can I get my message across in not just the way that singing to the choir you know preaching to the converted what's way because to most people they'd be like to most people I know who aren't vegan they'd be like oh you know that poor woman what horrible thing to do with her because we live in a world that assumes that all the stuff that goes on behind closed doors is lovely and wholesome and the opposite of what this inquiry
00:04:32
Speaker
showed you know what we as vegans know that it's so so awful that the lives of farmed animals is so upsetting so i would say i think i think that this protest is a really shocking thing a really uh horrifying thing and good good that it's shocking good that it's horrifying you know to bring into the daylight what is what is, you know, what is such an important ah matter. So I know that some people they'd be like, oh, it's too much. It's too much. I don't think it's too much. I think, you know, when
00:05:10
Speaker
There's such horrors going on, you know, in the in the it's a paraphrase Paul McCartney, if slaughter if slaughterhouses had glass windows, then none of us would eat meat. I mean you think we can empathise why an organisation that has got animals' best interests at heart and has seen something put to the government and they're kind of not responding or not seeming to respond in the way that you'd want you kind of left thinking well what options do we still have left and like you say Dominic but some people are gonna say oh that's too far you cut you know that's out of order or that's not gonna win people over if we're looking at things from a pragmatic point of view but
00:05:49
Speaker
Actually, if we if we need to raise these issues, get them into the public spotlight. there's There's only so many ways if you are a sort of more grassroots organization to do that, I guess. Yeah, I say good for them. I say good work, horrifying work, but justifiably horrifying in my
Campaigns for Veganism and Plant-Based Diets
00:06:08
Speaker
view. Indeed. Well, someone who doesn't have to deposit dead piglets on people's doorsteps to get attention is naturalist and TV personality, Chris Packham.
00:06:17
Speaker
He's lucky enough, or rather he has earned, depending on how you look at it, um his platform. And he has used that again this week, voicing his support for a letter urging the UK government to withdraw its support for a meat and dairy campaign. So he took to Instagram last week on his social media account.
00:06:35
Speaker
um and he described the Let's Eat Balanced campaign, which is run by the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board, AHDB. He's described that as dangerous propaganda. Now, this campaign, for those who aren't aware, it encourages British people to eat more meat and dairy and runs through January to coincide with the January. I've got a feeling it runs pretty much throughout the year as well. We've definitely reported on this campaign before, and indeed we've reported on the kind of counter campaigns to let's eat balanced. Packham said that let's eat balanced flies in the face of the government's own public health and sustainability goals. um He said instead of promoting meat, the government should use similar publicity campaigns to drive up the consumption of fruit, vegetables and whole foods
00:07:25
Speaker
and communicate the health and sustainability benefits of plant-based whole foods to the public. What do you reckon Julie? Good old Chris Packham? Well yeah, I think they're highlighting him because he sells news doesn't he? Because he's kind of a big name.
00:07:40
Speaker
but there were loads of names on that letter. I don't know if you've seen it, but, you know, the letter's great. It's really well written. It's been endorsed by hundreds of people. But yeah, Chris Packham was one of them. I don't know who the originator of the letter was, but they've done a great job in coordinating all the people, you know, who are signing up to it as well. I don't know if it might have been Dale Vince who is the originator of it. I mean, his his name is on there, isn't he? in the Yeah, but I saw, I read something where it looked like he was, it was his letter or, you know, he was definitely a mover and a shaker and involved in it. So if so, very good for him.
00:08:27
Speaker
This let's eat balanced is an absolute nonsense, of course, and it is just a promo for the red meat and dairy industries. a Absolutely it is.
00:08:41
Speaker
farmers who are producing these things pay a levy per animal that they are abusing and slaughtering so that they can benefit from this campaign to promote their business. And it is. It's just absolutely horrible. And we all know, I mean, a balanced diet is about having the right amount of carbs, protein, fat,
00:09:06
Speaker
vitamins, minerals and water for your energy requirements and your lifestyle. It's not to do with how much red meat or dairy you are consuming or otherwise, it's ridiculous. And the whole thing about balance takes the conversation away from anything to do with sustainability or anything to do with morality, you know, it's like a balanced, well, you know, what does that mean? You know, you you can have a donut for every portion of chips you're eating or
00:09:38
Speaker
that sounds good to me, ah sign me up. It's just an absolute nonsense. You know, how many group one carcinogens do you want to balance with, you know, ones from group two? Absolutely.
00:09:59
Speaker
Now it's it's, like you say, it's a well-written letter, like it's it's using statistics, it's using research, and as well it's it's comparing comparing what we're doing in this country to other governments across the world as well, which I think is always quite a handy way of making someone go, oh oh gosh, maybe we'd better change then. But anyway, yeah, good good for all those who are behind that.
00:10:22
Speaker
and Interesting that RSPCE and all the SSPC have site put their name to it.
Human Intervention in Animal Populations
00:10:28
Speaker
yeah yeah Yes indeed, morally confused perhaps. Now we've often spoken on the show about um issues in in countries where there are maybe stray animals and um local governments or local councils are are working out what to do with them and very often the answer is is quite crude and not not very pleasant for the animals involved. This story therefore caught our eye. It comes to us from Thailand where nearly 200 stray cats were sterilized and vaccinated in just two days at a Buddhist temple
00:11:03
Speaker
This actually um took place in mid-December last year, but the nature of the new cycle is such that we've only just heard about it now. Animal Welfare Organisation for Paws shared this news on Monday. The initiative aimed to humanely control the growing stray cat population using the trap neuter vaccinate return method It was held at the Wat Klong Tui Nok Temple in Bangkok. um Like I say, it was the 13th to 14th of December. So, for pause, Bangkok Cat Society and Lanta Animal Welfare all worked together in this scheme. and that It was free vaccinations that were offered, sterilization of stray and community cats in low-income areas around the temple. residents care for cats in the area, but there is limited access to affordable veterinary care, um which has consequently led to overpopulation. um And four paws have said that the campaign raised awareness of the benefits of the trap new to vaccinate return method, also helped to reduce stray populations, improve animal health and prevent disease like rabies
00:12:11
Speaker
ah the involvement of the temple's monks and residents was key to the campaign's success in that monks helped identify cats needing medical attention and encouraged community participation. Dom, this has been put across is ah as a a good news story. I think that's my reading of it, or is there something I'm missing? Well, you know what? I am not a vet. I'm not a medical expert. You know, I...
00:12:38
Speaker
to give a teaser trailer to a future falafel episode coming up. um Teaser trailer, teaser trailer. and In a future one, we're going to chat about a lovely radio thing called um Raising Hair, which is talking about living with animals and, you know, minus spoiler, minus spoiler.
00:13:00
Speaker
it's about non-interference it's about animals being animals and humans being animals and can we coexist in a way that benefits each other without thinking humans are the mighty force we must wade in and and control and direct you know animals were here way before humans were they're fine the the biggest threat to animals is usually people isn't it is usually people So on the case of Hairs, that show did a really good ah job with me of making me think, yeah, you know, don't wade in. Don't wade in. Let animals be animals. They know what they're doing. I don't know about this one, though. I don't know about this one. It does sound good to me because I know what it's like to have seen large populations of cats really in
00:13:50
Speaker
in suffering and you know it really does sound to me like they've a intervened with with good intent and that that it does sound like the intent has been with the animals ah welfare that's my knee-jerk reaction do you think otherwise aunt Well, i ah again, we've got to be careful that we don't wade too much into a future episode that's not out yet. But I think one thing I liked about that was how you could you can hear a headline sometimes and feel like there needs to be a certain vegan response to it. You know, I i know how to process this information. I know what you know, if you give me ah a headline, I know how I'm supposed to respond.
00:14:35
Speaker
And I think in this instance, I guess we can say because we don't live in that community, we don't know what lives those cats have, we don't know the impact that that it has on the wider human population or other other issues there. So it's difficult to say, oh, yes, this is good, this is bad. I think what if I am to take a positive away from it?
00:14:56
Speaker
It is that a human community has decided to try and do something to help those where there is low income in the area and how that might be affecting the care of animals. And we might critique the way in which it's been done. We might say it's a bad idea. We might say it's a good idea. But I think if we're to be at like a civilized, animal-loving society, then actually we should be doing things to help people with lower incomes. Yeah, I'm well up for listeners saying, Dominic, you're chatting rubbish. Please do, listeners. Please do say, Dominic, you're chatting rubbish. But I know when I was a lad, I grew up in a farming community. It's one of the things that made me as a little boy stop eating meat, like seeing the cows, seeing how the livestock were treated. It really upset me. It really opened my eyes. And there were also large communities of cats. And these weren't like hares who were just
00:15:53
Speaker
I'm making a presumption here, native animals, you know, cats are introduced by humans to an area. So if cats had been introduced as cats had been introduced to this area and then interbreeding had happened because, you know, the cats were reacting to the only cats that had been brought to people by people to that area. And one of the the neighbors did step in and get all of them vaccinated and my reaction as a little boy was that they they did seem happier and healthier because I know what it was like to look out and see really ill cats really bad cats and the general health from my perception seemed
00:16:36
Speaker
to be better and you know that that's what I observed but I think it is something that that is um open to discussion for sure I'd be really interested what our listeners have to say on this story.
Animal Rights Legal Battles and Advocacy
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah well get your get your comments in soon because we have got a listener mailbag episode coming out in oh a couple weeks time so you've got just enough time ideally the ideal time for getting a comment in really Anyway, let's let's keep things specific. We started off the show with a couple of sort of broad news stories. We've gone specific into Thailand. Let's stay specific. Goodness, if I can say it, that is. We have got an animal rights group who have been
00:17:16
Speaker
fundraising for animal free research and they've announced this week that they have raised around about six and a half thousand pounds in the last year for their latest campaign um and indeed more than sixty thousand pounds in total since they started out. They're based in North Cornwall which we know we've got a lot of listeners in Cornwall so hi to all of you. Like I say they campaign for animal free human specific testing that delivers better treatments for human diseases faster and they have said that last year was an incredibly busy year, number of successful operations and a huge £6848.59 raised. They ended the year with Angie Burke and Steph Jones-Jarls from the organisation taking a trip to Parliament
00:18:02
Speaker
to reception held by the charity who are working with MPs to introduce Herbie's Law which is similarly to do with animal free research. 2025 will be the group's 10th anniversary and members are hopeful that they can raise even more. This is I feel like this is a nice story Julie because like sometimes you can feel as a vegan, you can feel like, oh gosh, what can I do other than continue to live my own life? But actually there are plenty of small organisations that can rally like this and it, you know, it it all makes a difference, doesn't it? Absolutely. This is a great story. I love this story because although the beard group seems quite small and the amount of money that they have raised looks quite small, they are part of
00:18:51
Speaker
a much bigger organisation, Animal Free Research UK, who are doing amazing things to introduce new ways of carrying out medical research involving AI and humans and, you know,
00:19:10
Speaker
all the alternatives that we need. And they are doing incredible stuff all over the UK and worldwide, believe it or not. And if you go on their website, you can find lots of different ways to help with their work, not just donating money to them, but you can donate your body to different organizations. you know For after your death, you can actually really help to further and medical research if you choose to do so. But they've got a shop on there. It's not open at the moment. The online shop is down. But you know there's lots of ways. There's also a really easy way
00:19:53
Speaker
You can go on their website and you can email your own MP to and support an early day motion for Herbie's Law and Herbie's Law is a piece of legislation they're hoping will, you know, come to fruition one day, which is a, it's a mandate for phasing out all experimentation and research on animals. And at the moment they've got a bill, which it has been, had its, got through its first reading in parliament, it's got a second reading in July,
00:20:31
Speaker
So they're really amazing people. The bill is the medical research prohibition bill. So yeah, they're doing great stuff. I would really, really recommend getting on the animalfreeresearch.org website and having a look and joining in. Absolutely and just brilliant hearing all these little cogs working together as part of this movement is fantastic and thanks for that call to action there Julie. We are talking on Thursday's show about artificial intelligence, myself and Carlos and indeed medical research comes in there in the way it could be used to keep animals out of laboratories.
00:21:13
Speaker
um Another episode that is in our archive, looking back nearly a year ago, we did a show featuring the news, but also um featuring the life and legacy of Stephen Wise. In fact, I seem to remember you were on that one, Julie, who and he was a lawyer, lecturer, philosopher. yeah And he was talking about habeas corpus and whether people, ah sorry, whether animals can have legal personhood and we've got a story this week about a similar thing. A bid to free five elephants from a Colorado zoo unfortunately has been rejected. um The court ruled that the elephants are not people. Sounds like an odd thing to say but we're talking legally here in terms of their rights. An animal rights group argued that Missy, Kimber, Lucky, Lulu and Jumbo were effectively imprisoned at the zoo
00:22:04
Speaker
and had filed to move them to an elephant sanctuary trying to bring a habeas corpus claim on behalf of the animals. So that's the legal process that allows a person to challenge their detention. um The Colorado Supreme Court said the matter boiled down to whether an elephant is a person and therefore had the same liberty rights as a human. And like I say, ultimately they decided they did not rule in six to zero in favor of a previous district court decision.
00:22:31
Speaker
that said the state's habeas corpus process only applies to persons and not to non-human animals. um They did say this was true no matter how cognitively, psychologically or socially sophisticated they may be. Whilst the court did say that the five elderly African elephants were majestic, they could not bring the claim. um The Non-Human Rights Project, the and NRP, petitioned for the elephants to be moved from Cheyenne Mountain Zoo to a suitable elephant sanctuary in 2023. Dom, obviously this is sad news for these five elephants. like What's your opinion on on cases like this? like Do you see them as a waste of time? like It's not going to get anywhere? Or is it a case of just gradually having this battle of attrition and eventually you know one one thing will go in favor of animals and that could open the floodgates?
Ethical Considerations in Animal Use in Arts and Festivals
00:23:27
Speaker
What do you think?
00:23:27
Speaker
So many companies taught productions which used to feature animals in yesteryear and now do not feature animals. You know, I myself, I work in the arts and I've got professional relationships with companies who I know, you know, have existed for decades and, you know, around the UK, previously had animals and as have a changed they do not anymore and of course as a vegan I celebrate animals not being used for entertainment purposes because if entertainment is the person purpose well-being is always going to be way down the list you know making money is the priority I mean if this story was the start of a
00:24:12
Speaker
children's movie. There'd be no doubt who the villains were, would they? No doubt. No doubt who the villains were. And you just think, you know, what happens to us? What happens to us? You know, as children, you know, I make art for children. I visit children. You know, children have got such a clear sense of right and wrong. Teenagers do. University students do. You know, I live in Manchester with the unis where so many people ah who are at university go on protests and are very politically active and then you know people leave uni and often get jobs they don't like and learn how to compromise boo boo to compromise boo be awkward be annoying be outspoken be angry keep your anger keep your anger fuel your anger so yeah this is not a way some of those poor elephants what what you know Horrible, horrible story and you know we just have to keep vocal. What a good thing that we're talking about it on this show. What a good thing we're talking about it. I've got zero mixed feelings unlike our story about the cats. I'm very confident in my view about this.
00:25:26
Speaker
free the elephants free the elephants you know as i say if this was a movie that we did for families it would be clear wouldn't it be clear and what happens to like you know mums and dads and carers and uh people who who watch these films with their kids is that it's all a story isn't it no no no absolutely and you know like like we've seen with the previous story all these different cogs working together you know there there'll be some who will advocate on behalf of animals by By putting legal cases there'll be others who will protest by you know doing demonstrations outside there'll be others who will try and liberate there'll be others who try and change things from within like all working together it's that's that's the way it's gonna get yeah I'm sure I'm really saying stuff to our listeners that they very probably already do but the power of boycotting is
00:26:18
Speaker
good and it can be socially difficult you know these days I'm self-employed I'm freelance so I don't really have colleagues and I know what it's like to be at a staff Christmas do where everyone's in a good mood we're going to the Greyhounds everybody and I'm like oh I'm not gonna join you for that Because, you know, I mean, let's face it, who doesn't want to get out of a staff do, you know, you can use your moral with excuse for just not doing an unpleasant team building activity. But like, yeah, I think that's really powerful. And I know we again, we conditioned we conditioned we condition get along, get along, be affable, be polite, don't shake the tree, don't make a fuss. But like, you could say that in such a polite way. No, no, no, I'm not going to go.
00:27:07
Speaker
to to this activity. you know I'm not going to go to the horse racing with you. i'm not goingnna you know you can do You can do that. and You can do that really politely. and I'm not saying that it comes easily to everybody. you know It does take some courage. but um yeah I hope the people of Colorado boycott this activity because boycotting speaks volumes. So people of Colorado boycott, boycott this, boycott this. With someone else who has been speaking up on behalf of animals this week is someone called Jordy Gisbert. I've probably pronounced that wrong, apologies. They are a representative from the Association in Defense of Animal Rights. Now, for context, at this time of year, or probably as we record, and
00:27:57
Speaker
and Just under a week ago the Trey Tom's festival again. I'm pronouncing these things terribly I'm sure it takes place this weekends in neighborhoods towns and cities up and down the land This is generally in Spain as I understand it horses Donkeys and mules are paraded on three laps of a given route carrying vintage carriages and demonstrating past ways of life to the gathered crowds and takes place on the weekend of the feast day of St. Anthony January 17th and it celebrates its 200th anniversary in Barcelona this year. Ironically when looking at things from a vegan perspective
00:28:35
Speaker
The custom is a way of honoring animals and all they've done for society through generations, especially in a pre-industrialized world where they were vital to the development and progress of humanity. And Jordy Gisbert is basically saying on behalf of the Association of Defense of Animal Rights,
00:28:52
Speaker
This needs to be done in a way that actually ensures the well-being of horses, donkeys and mules and in fact maybe doesn't directly involve them at all. They're suggesting instead of honoring animals by putting them at the centre of a parade, perhaps if we put figures or some other structures, perhaps we could also do the festivity without needing to do it in a way that animals don't like.
00:29:17
Speaker
or maybe having the celebration viewing the animals in a field or some other landscape where they can be honored whilst giving them some space. There have been some quote modernizations of this festival recently where they are quote ensuring animal welfare um But this includes things like having a vet present for every 42 animals paraded and limiting the routes to a six kilometer maximum. I mean, I know Julie, you know you know we're endurance athletes, but it doesn't seem like if you're really looking out for someone's welfare, you say, don't worry, no more than six kilometers you need to parade in front of all these people. It's been a bit but a bit token measures so far, I think.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yes, and I am going to pee on their parade now by pointing out that this festival honoring animals' contribution and celebrating animals' contribution to their culture and how they've changed their industries over the centuries and all the rest of it, the animals didn't contribute.
00:30:22
Speaker
The animals didn't give of their own free will. The animals were enslaved and exploited and probably lost their lives ultimately for your industrial gains. So celebrating them in a blooming parade, however you do it, doesn't do anything to help the animals who've lost their lives or any of the ones who are still involved in all of that. So don't kid yourselves Well, I would say, first of all, and I think it's really good that this gentleman is kind of raising the question about how best to involve or not even involve animals in this parade, but I would rather he was addressing the bigger question of the whole thing about, you know, using animals at all, however light their carriage is or
00:31:20
Speaker
whatever, just the entire thing. So yeah, it's not just about whether a ah parade in a festival might upset animals or be to their detriment, but is the use of them in any shape or form to their detriment? And we know the answer to that. So I would like to see them raising that. I'm kind of interested though. I like the fact that St. Anthony is Catalonia's protector of the animals.
00:31:50
Speaker
I like that. I'll take that, I'll take that. Our Anthony is protector of the falafel, that's for sure. Definitely not a saint though. I remember my nanny telling me about Empire Day when she was young in Great Britain. I think it happened definitely in the 1930s when she was a child and there would be this almost similar parallels like this, quote, celebration of everything that the empire has done for Great Britain. and And like you say, it's like, no, no, no, no, people have been enslaved and oppressed and... and and Yeah, be embarrassed, if you're going to be anything. Yeah, exactly.
00:32:31
Speaker
But I think she had a teacher who was similar to Geordie Gisbert because she said she had a teacher one year who on Empire Day said, right, I'm going to teach you about what actually has happened in the British Empire and has laid on the truths a bit more and was far less jingoistic and patriotic and was saying, no, this is what we have done. This is how we have oppressed people for our own gain. And that's the point you've you've rightly made there, Julie. So yeah, well in, anyone who is rallying against the norms of oppressing animals, good on you all this week in the news, I say. But not just for the festivals, for the whole freaking year. Thank you. Absolutely, absolutely.
Controversial Analogies in Animal Rights Discussions
00:33:21
Speaker
Okay, it is pick of the week time where we take one of the new stories each that we've seen this week that we want to explore in a bit more detail. Dominic, which story got you thinking the most? There are Holocaust groups in Germany who've welcomed the Supreme Court ruling against a poster campaign comparing the slaughter of animals to a Holocaust. ah The people for the ethical treatment of animals, Peter, they did the Holocaust on your plate advert, which he said that's constituted an offence against human dignity. Paul Spiegel, late president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, filed a lawsuit in 2024 after Peter attempted to launch the campaign in Germany.
00:34:10
Speaker
Stephen Kramer, Secretary General of the Council, said this is a milestone ruling stating very clearly that no use of the Holocaust and its victims to raise attention for other political issues, dilemmas or political demands is acceptable or legal. and This campaign had included billboards showing black and white images of emaciated concentration camp inmates, next to full colour photos of chickens, turkeys and other animals fattened for slaughter. Slogans on the poster included final humiliation,
00:34:43
Speaker
and for animals or people and Nazis. The court said the campaign was not an intentional insult to human dignity, but found it could prove as hurtful to Jews as outright Holocaust denial, which is illegal in Germany.
00:34:59
Speaker
Karen Pollock, Chief Executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust said this exploitation of Holocaust imagery is a shameless attempt to use shock tactics to create publicity and is profoundly offensive to both the victims and the survivors. Peter Spokesman said the campaign did not intend to trivialise the matter but wanted to use shock tactics to draw attention to the killing of animals.
00:35:39
Speaker
Well, I remember the first time I saw a video where the Holocaust was compared to animal agriculture or vice versa and it's not a comparison I'd ever thought of before um and I seem to remember it was somebody who was a Holocaust survivor themselves who was like narrating over the top of it And that is a key factor, that's a key factor. ah yeah oh I was moved by that and I thought my goodness yeah like of course, of course there are similarities there and you know we're not all taught about the realities of animal oppression in schools whereas I think most people in British state education will have some
00:36:27
Speaker
some background of of the atrocities that that happened in the 1930s and 40s in Germany and and wider afield too. So I shared this video with a friend and I was like, gosh, have you seen this? Like, I've i've never thought of it in that way. And they they didn't reply and just left it. And, that you know, that was fine. Oh, gosh, I think there is something to be said for trying to find parallels, trying to find analogies in our attempts to convince a non-vegan world that what is happening to animals is an emergency, it's violent, it's unnecessary, it's atrocious because it is all those things. So I think being creative about that and trying to meet people somewhere that is familiar ground for them
00:37:16
Speaker
I think can be seen as as good strategy you know that's that's good good tactics that's good communication isn't it you know if we're a good communicator we'll meet someone where they're at however like my mind's going back to that first story we had in today's show where there's you know dead piglets dropped on a doorstep and for some people that's crossing a line I would say this is crossing a line for way more people and I don't know. I don't know if it's possible to so workshop these these more controversial ideas or kind of give them to a little focus group before, you know, putting as a ah big ah big national campaign or something. Well, there are questions about Peter's, you know, intent. I mean, and not for the first time, you know, Peter art group without drawing criticism.
00:38:03
Speaker
you know I think that as someone myself i' mean I'm an artist who aims to make good communication and you know poetry comparison is the bread and butter of poetry oh you are like this you're as this as that you know we we do that without that poems have been very very uh short they'd be a lot shorter but if my comparisons fail to connect you know whether there's an ethical right or not, if if people are just being like, if it's being unsuccessful, then it's being unsuccessful. yeah My father is Jewish. you know i've got ah you know I'm ah um' ah um'm a but person with full of Jewish blood. you know I grew up you know really, really aware of the um of the Holocaust and what my own family have been through. I'm not a Jewish person myself. My dad is Jewish.
00:38:57
Speaker
i subjectively, I'm not talking as a vegan, I'm talking as Dominic, I can see why the the comparison is made. I'm not offended, me, Dominic, I'm not offended when I see the awfulness, I mean awfulness is too live to work, what animals go through,
00:39:18
Speaker
i I don't find the comparison offensive. I don't. But if most people do, whether they're right or not, and I think they are right to find that unacceptable, I'm not in any way suggesting that other people are wrong to be offended by the comparison. What I am saying is, if the comparison doesn't work, don't use that comparison. That's what I'm saying. Do you think there's value though in having a bit of a think about why it doesn't and why certain things are just allowed to be precious taboo little things where you just don't go there? So, for example, we
00:39:56
Speaker
can feel a little where we're encouraged to feel sympathetic towards the person who finds all the dead piglets on her doorstep because that's gruesome and oh, oh, shocking. That person has probably got parts of dead piglets in their fridge.
00:40:15
Speaker
we There are dead piglets everywhere in ASDA, in Tesco and all the rest of it. So why should their bodies be so shocking? So in the same way that I'm aware that there are some analogies and comparisons that animal rights campaigners make,
00:40:39
Speaker
that are off limits or seem to be you just don't go there and you don't do it and and people just pull the shutters down and, you know, concentration camps and Holocaust survivors and things are, you know, just two of them. But I think it really kind of bears a bit more encouragement to think it through and why are these just absolutely kind of sacred you know, only humans can have that suffering. They're allowed protection and everyone to think that their suffering is greater no matter what and that the animals is not the same and all the rest of it. Well, you know, I think it opens up the whole con conversation, really. I'm going to make a really weird comparison here, a really weird comparison. But, you know, in the news at the moment, there's the um discussion
00:41:35
Speaker
did Elon Musk do a Nazi salute? That's being talked about. And I think that, you know, whether he did or didn't, I mean, I can't stand the man absolutely despise him. So whether he did or didn't, you know, there are a whole load of people that think that Nazis aren't that bad. And you know, like, you know, you don't have to look far on social media to see like really ill-educated opinions and I feel that maybe it's just the rise of access to comments from poorly educated people that makes it feel like poorly educated people are on the rise but you know certainly when I was a kid
00:42:13
Speaker
like there wasn't much debate over are Nazis bad you know we knew Nazis were bad and when like that on its most basic level is being discussed I know that's a separate matter but I think it it sort of addresses partly why is this ah a sacred thing I think. I think it would use as an excuse to close a conversation down so that they don't have to think about animals they just go Oh, you've gone onto that territory then, whoops, right, we're off then, you know, and I think it is just an excuse to to shut it down. But, and I feel, I agree, Julie, but I know my non-vegan friends, I know if I opened with this, and I mean, I have, yeah, big up me, big up me, I've turned people vegan, I have, I have, I have, I've got loads of friends who are vegan because of me, yay! As I'm sure we all have, and I know if I'd have opened with this,
00:43:06
Speaker
it wouldn't have worked on them. So whether it's right or wrong, this argument is a separate matter too. yeah and It's very interesting what you say, Julie, why should it be sacred? There's a huge discussion to have there. But most important is, is it effectively reducing animal suffering? And I know that if I'd led with this, this would not have been.
00:43:28
Speaker
as successful an argument as the arguments I did use which did engage with them and did ultimately turn them vegan and that's what matters isn't it? Yeah I think that's that's kind of where I'm falling down on here in that I completely agree Julie there is a time and a place I think to look at historical examples of social injustice and and to use that to help inform our current dialogue about animal rights Now, our episode that came out on Vegan Talk on on Thursday was our
00:44:01
Speaker
um are animal sanctuaries too resource heavy. Now, I'm not gonna, if I'm owning ah a vegan restaurant, if I've got a customer that's just leaving, I'm not just gonna throw that in there just as they walk out the door, because that's a conversation I wanna sit down and have with people that I probably already have a relationship with, because it's ah it's a bit of a like, what the hell, what are you saying? And I think it's the same with this, like, and for me as a strategy,
00:44:26
Speaker
I'm not sure about it as being a billboard campaign. However, with somebody that I you know have a good relationship with and I'm i' happy to have philosophical conversations with and is not yet vegan, maybe ah maybe I would go down there that line and and and talk about examples in history where humans have been oppressed in in ways in which there are parallels with with animals.
Public Reaction to Animal Rights Protests
00:44:48
Speaker
And my final thought on this is I do think it matters who's speaking. I am a gay man and I've certainly, you know, when I've heard people make comparisons to certain gay things, sometimes I've thought, are you, are you informed enough to do that? Are you informed? I've been asked my opinions on racism. I've been in rooms full of white people. It's like, well, Dominic, what do you think of about black people? are And it's like, why even, you know, why are we a group of white people? But, you know, come on now, come on, maybe there are people who are more informed than us. So I do think
00:45:20
Speaker
um you know ah right At the start of this, an you spoke about the Holocaust survivor who was you know narrating a comparison of the torture of animals. you know I think, yeah, I'm interested in hearing what he has to say and i do think I do think the speaker matters. I do think that's a factor. Well, just when we thought the controversy had peaked, Julie's pick of the week features an angry old man wearing Crocs in Sainsbury's.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yes, indeed it does. So animal rising have been shopping, shopping for signatures on their petition to persuade the RSPC to drop their assured scheme. And they didn't, they went to Sainsbury's and Marks and Spencers across m a lot of England, sort of from north to south, really, in the various towns and cities in England and they didn't hang out in the neutral sort of fruit and veg aisle that they are in the doorway. Oh no, no, no, they headed for the chilly nastiness of the meat aisle and that was a really tough gig for them because they then didn't just hang out there and invite people to have
00:46:45
Speaker
conversations should they wish to do so. They actually freaking cross-legged sat on the floor and blockaded the aisle and prevented the meat-buying public from buying their meat which was ah It's not the way I would have done it. They didn't ask me, obviously, but it isn't the way I would have done it. They've got loads of signatures on their petition already, but I bet they weren't garnering many of them in the Meat Island Sainsburys. But it's made the news and they're pleased about that, although a lot of the comments have been kind of negative, to say the least.
00:47:24
Speaker
and Yes, the man who has chosen to partner jeans with a pair of crocs and is ramming the people sitting on the floor with his shopping trolley, he's, you know, gained a lot of attention. He certainly got my attention with his quote, you don't control my passage anywhere. And quote of the week. So I don't want to control his passage.
00:47:56
Speaker
Nobody wanted to control his passage. they just his I think his diet might be controlling his passage. well We just wanted him to stop a while and think about the issues and make up his own mind and be a bit educated about the fact that he was, if he was going there to buy RSPCA assured meat and spending extra money on it, they were just kindly letting him know that actually, if he's spending extra money thinking that that made any difference at all for the animals, then he's been duped.
00:48:34
Speaker
so they were kind of doing him a favor but maybe he wasn't even making for that kind of meat maybe he was just making for whatever you know was available wasn't even bothered I don't know so that's what's been going down It's a kind of tricky one because it's quite a nuanced argument that the animal rising activists are trying to have here and I don't think it lends itself to a potentially busy supermarket when people are just wanting to buy stuff and get the heck out of there. I think really finding a place where you can have a proper chat
00:49:14
Speaker
might be better and you know dare I say it maybe not in the actual meat aisle because people have already kind of made their minds up by that point because they're not saying to folk have a think to yourself and you know how about going to the you know dried pasta aisle Instead, they're just kind of letting them know that the RSPCA Assured Scheme is includes farms where there is cruelty and slaughterhouses where there is cruelty. Well, I've said it before. I'll say it again. I'm afraid slaughterhouses.
00:49:53
Speaker
there's going to be cruelty folks you know. Could we say that these are two separate but complementary matters? The topic of ari RSPCA approved stuff is a nuanced thing which can be read about in the comments but the comments are heightened by the perhaps separate activity of them just being Awkward in the supermarket and I will add an adjective wonderfully awkward in the supermarket wonderfully awkward I love them sitting there. I love them doing that and like I think that that's separate to the very specific issue that Led them to do it. They're just blocking the meat are which is in itself a Worthy thing to do is it's it's you know, I became this is the first time I've seen an enough for the falafel story
00:50:45
Speaker
prior to being on the podcast. i obviously i'm like also that's way i so on top of the news dominique qui on top of the news yeah not This time I've seen this, this has been like on my algorithms and you know I was like I saw it I was like good for them good for them and then later I became aware of the RSPCA thing so Their separate things, blocking the meat, are being awkward, but that separate thing is in itself good, in my opinion, and has risen a topic that, the you know, even I have been like, oh, I've learned new things about that. So yeah, I say i say good, good, good, that's what I say.
00:51:27
Speaker
I want to just do two little um bits of bits of context. um I think that to call it a blockade is is a bit strong in that if you you watch the the video that has been most widely circulated, you can clearly see down the aisle and you could get to that aisle from a different direction.
00:51:48
Speaker
if yeah you could they themselves said that didn't they they themselves was like you can get around this way so it was it was like and it seemed to me like actually the staff of the the shop were actually being really fair actually really fair staff really fair to the protesters you know really good You know something? While we're on the topic of people being really fair, I was very surprised because this was reported in Farmers Weekly, which is where I read the article, how fair they were in their reporting. They were not like, oh, these bloody hippies sat on the floor and do you know what I mean? And veganness and that. They were so kind of, dare I say, let's write balanced.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yep, they were. So they described the group primarily acts for the transition to a secure and sustainable plant-based food system alongside a mass rewilding program. They had done their research, they understood what animal rising was about, you know,
00:52:56
Speaker
They were non-judgmental in their coverage. They then, having opened with the animal rising take on the whole situation, they then spoke about the RSPCA's response, but again, you know didn't give it any particular weight or anything, and then they covered scenes but he spoke a person's response which i think was ei generated it was so do you know what truly i don't want to be cynical i don't want to be raining on the parade but the general public's view on protests is so negative like that's my experience as an artist as somebody who's very pro protest be it gay rights be it animal rights you know
00:53:46
Speaker
people are like oh but as long as it does an inconvenience me because i really want a greg's pasty and don't block my way you know that is so maybe it was written so fairly because they thought their readers they didn't need to they they just knew they knew their readers would be like oh these hippies without red no when i read it i wondered if they had a rogue yeah think rioting or vegan on the on the writing team or something, I thought, whoa, somebody snuck in it because it really was unlike them because they could have really taken the ball and run with it on this and really highlighted how freaking awkward those protesters were and that those poor that poor elderly woman saying she couldn't go round the long way and all the rest of it. So they could have really dined out on this and they didn't. I thought it was an
00:54:36
Speaker
very unusually fair and well written article. I love all of this, I love it and like as an artist I'm often put in with groups of young people ah creating poetry on the topic of protest and it makes my blood boil. It's such a difficult thing to do because what I'm expected to do is celebrate the protests of like centuries ago. Have you ever heard of the suffragettes and speakers of all wrongs have now been righted and like that's so offensive i would rather not cover the topic of protest let's just do something on how nice flowers are let's do something on how nice trees are let's do that if we're going to do protests and let's actually do protests and you know of course that's not within my job description it's you know i'm not meant to rile them up and it's wrong it's wrong to
00:55:25
Speaker
you know to stifle voices so hooray for these people hooray hooray hooray yeah i mean i my my take would be that these these protests that the primary aim is always to get column inches is always to get media coverage they've achieved that and If the yeah of the secret arable farmer who writes for Farmers Weekly, who is actually ah a closet vegan, has has got hold of it and given it a positive spin too, then the fantastic stuff. We see you, Arab.
00:55:59
Speaker
And we salute you. And we see you short-tempered meat-buying members of the public as well. I think, you know, have some chickpeas and chill out a little bit. You know, they didn't take much, did they? And they were ramen folk.
Vegan Initiatives in Corporate Spaces
00:56:18
Speaker
Without trolling. Absolutely. Well, if you are the secret arable farmer writing for Farmers Weekly and you want to identify yourself, here is how to get in touch. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com.
00:56:36
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective, our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show. Go on, send us a message today, enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com Right, if you have made it this far into the show, congratulations, because it has been the self-proclaimed angry week, it's just all been kicking off, controversy, left, right and centre, some setbacks, some negativity, but we're going to finish with ah with an and finally a positive story, something that I think it's fair to say has made us all smile. This is Ecotricity, the national green energy company, in the UK. It's based in Stroud in Gloucestershire, not too far from me, and it has opened the UK's first fully plant-based canteen for its staff. The new staff canteen at Eco Trustee serves up delicious vegan food created by the chefs at Forest Green Rovers Football Club, who are also a completely plant-based
00:57:40
Speaker
just down the road and owned by the same person as owns Eco Tricity, that is Dale Vince. Already been mentioned in the show is the angry special and the Dale Vince special on and Enough of the Fluffle this week. ah The new canteen menu has been created by the chefs at the local football club down the road. It hopes to provide affordable sustainable food for the firm's hundreds of staff whilst also helping to boost their health and reduce everyone's carbon footprints according to sogloss.com. employees tuck into meals such as vegan burgers, koftas and lasagna all subsidised to just £4 with plans in the works to offer vegan breakfast options too. the restaurant at forest green rovers football club is also fully vegan
00:58:27
Speaker
carbon neutral apparently and avoids single-use plastic. I have been there several times being a football fan and I can vouch for its quality. It's very good, the best brownies I've ever had and I've had a lot of vegan brownies.
00:58:38
Speaker
I will tell you that Dale Vince, who, like I say, is the chairman of the football club, as well as owning Ecotristi. He said, we started a canteen at our Ecotristi HQ and unwittingly launched Britain's first fully plant-based workplace canteens, it seems. We're serving great food from the chefs at Forest Green Rovers.
00:58:57
Speaker
for just four quid affordable healthy tasty and planet friendly it brings our team together and supports their health and well-being and carbon footprints what a winner surely we can't pick out a negative in that story can we Well, I was looking into this and I was trying to figure out if they'd had a canteen before but it was just like standard canteen stuff and they were serving up animals because ah one of the things I read made me think that they had changed an existing canteen to this and that I thought, well, that's not good.
00:59:35
Speaker
Dale Vince. I don't know if you're listening Dale. I don't think he is. us yeah ah He's busy. He's going through a very expensive divorce at the moment but he's still got time to sign that letter though a bit against the Let's Eat balance and he's still got time to open a nice canteen so he's doing all right. But anyway. Dude he's all staying. You know everything.
01:00:00
Speaker
Anyway, so yeah if there was an existing canteen and he's been like letting folk buy and stocking it up with sausages and stuff then oh that's not so good but if he didn't have a canteen for his workers before and they were just like bringing their lunch in you know, then and now they don't have to because they've got a canteen and it's all vegan. That's fab. I mean, he said we started a canteen at our eco just the HQ. I his first time here. I just say I read something else because I was i honestly I was really vigorously researching this because I was desperate to know and my research suggested that there had been some canteen there before.
01:00:41
Speaker
But if I'd been him, even if there was just a space for people to eat their lunch, ecos-tricity, I would have said, you're not bringing that in here. Yeah, bounces on the door. They could have got Croc's man with a trolley. He wouldn't have let them pass.
01:01:00
Speaker
didn't back home if they were bringing in animal parts in a yeah were exactly i mean so um i didt he' he's late to the party is what i'm seeing but but i still know I at an event and all the feegan vegan options go before you've had a chance to have yours, isn't it? that This would not be an issue here. No, what a wonderful thing. I really like Stroud. I've done poetry over there. What a grand old place it is. Yeah, let's, yeah, more vegan canteens. I mean, Manchester's not short of them. Manchester's not short of them. Well, I always argue when people are like, oh, you know, ah come to this um place that does vegan options, but also meet Dominic. Let's all meet, eat out there because there's something for everyone. I'm like,
01:01:46
Speaker
There's something for everyone at the all vegan place. There's something for everyone at the all vegan place. Come here, come here. You've had laughter before, haven't you? You've had paper time before. Come here, come on over, come on over. So yeah, hooray for this, hooray, hooray.
01:02:04
Speaker
Alex and I committed, I don't know whether it's a vegan faux pas or not. like Both give me your opinions on this. So we yeah we celebrated Burns Night last night with with a group of people in our local area and the deal was ah ah you bring your own, well not bring your own desserts but people bring in desserts to share. But the the the neeps and tatties and and haggis and stuff were all provided anyway we brought a vegan desserts not everyone was vegan there were ah desserts listed as vegan so some people who weren't vegan nonetheless made a vegan dessert cuz there were a few of us who were vegan um and we didn't label ours as vegan and it it got
01:02:42
Speaker
it got devoured, it got eaten really nicely, as did all the oh the vegan stuff. What do you think? Is that is that missing an opportunity for canteen advocacy and, um you know, activism? Should I have put the word vegan on there or? I think not necessarily, but it would have been nice if everyone had then gone, that was the best pudding I've ever eaten in my life. And then tell them, but you definitely tell them then. Yeah. But not to just go and not tell them at all, but I think you need to tell them.
01:03:12
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah. I mean, normally we normally we would, but we just, ah yeah, we forgot about it. I mean, I can tell, Julie, you're most confused about why a group of people in Shropshire were celebrating Burns Night, but there we are. I don't even understand. like People celebrate things just because they like celebrating things. That's all right. Something to do, isn't it? Something to do.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:03:31
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free enough of the falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player. That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:04:09
Speaker
Well, well, well, well, well, what a grand old time I have had being part of recording this episode. So thank you everyone who has been listening to it. It's really great having listeners tuning in. I want to give you all a heads up to the next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out. Vegan Talk.
01:04:29
Speaker
will be available from Thursday the 30th of January with Anthony and Carlos discussing could AI be used to help animals? Mmm indeed it's an interesting one it's a chewy one anyway that is enough of the falafel for this episode thank you Julie thank you Dominic for your contributions thanks again everyone listening I've been Anthony and you've been listening to vegan week from the enough of the falafel collective
01:05:02
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:05:43
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic, there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from