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144- Podcast Review: Raising Hare (2025)
81 Plays1 month ago
Raising Hare was a short podcast series from BBC Sounds available in January 2025, based on a book written by Chloe Dalton. It documented a real life story of the author, who in the first lockdown of 2020, found an ailing infant hare (a leveret) in a field near her home. What follows is a story of constantly weighing up what the right thing is to do with a wild animal that needs help, but also is at risk from becoming too domesticated if Chloe took the 'wrong' intervention.
The podcast is regrettably no longer available. At the time of recording it was, but it has now been taken down by BBC Sounds. Boooo! However, you can still buy the book (https://sherlockandpages.com/products/raising-hare-the-heart-warming-true-story-of-an-unlikely-friendship-by-chloe-dalton-9781805302711?srsltid=AfmBOoqteowtWPfdz9oUAlxSpEZhBe59Qrzg9fxmOwu2Mwl6DVkAaIdq, among other places) and listen to the audiobook (https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Raising-Hare-Audiobook/B0D1RDP8CD). Whilst we'd hoped that listeners could access the short BBC podcast series for free, we nonetheless hope that this conversation about the story still holds some value in terms of entertainment, inspiration & insight into a view of animals that we might aspire to. And if not, you've still got Dominic & Julie's dulcet tones to enjoy!
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Dominic & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction and Apologies
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, Anthony here. Well, well, well, do we have ourselves a bit of a pickle? Dominic, Julie and myself recorded this episode a couple of weeks ago. We're speaking about a podcast series that was on BBC Sounds all about raising hair it's a book um and it was a podcast series and naive us when we recorded it we thought oh it's brilliant this podcast series is on BBC sounds it's free and available for people to access they'll be able to listen to it as well as listening to our review and I tested the link this morning when I put the episode out and lo and behold the link takes you a page
00:00:39
Speaker
where the podcast is no longer available, not available anywhere else either. Now, you can still get the book, you can still get the audiobook. So we've put a link in the description for those, but our conversation is going to reference a BBC sound series that is no longer available. So apologies for the points where we're talking about the soundtrack or the production values or the narrator um because they don't exist anymore unless they bring it back out on the BBC for you to listen to. However,
00:01:09
Speaker
We still think the conversation is very interesting, very relevant, lots of great talking points and it might just be that you like listening to Julie's voice, Dominic's voice, I know, I certainly do.
00:01:20
Speaker
and a few of you oddballs out there might even enjoy listening to mine. So we've decided to
Discussing 'Raising Hair' and its Themes
00:01:25
Speaker
publish it. We hope that you enjoy it and sorry for any false hope that you might be able to listen to the series yourself. However, like I say, that audio book and that physical book are still out there. It's a fascinating tale to listen to. We really enjoyed it. So without further ado, here is our review of Raising Hair. Hello everybody.
00:01:47
Speaker
Can domesticating and raising a wild animal ever be consistent with a vegan outlook on life? This is Vegan Talk from Enough of the Falafel. I'm Anthony and for this episode I'm also joined by Julie and
00:02:10
Speaker
Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere without doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? So they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute, you always pick the meat.
00:02:38
Speaker
long as you don't get the wee brilliant with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:02:46
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everybody, Anthony here. Now, today we are here to discuss kind of the topic I said at the top of the show, but really we're going to be talking through what is a BBC sound, so like a podcast series, just five short episodes, but it's also the subject of a book called Raising Hair. So the book is available um but also you can listen to this series on BBC Sounds if you have access to that um where you're listening from. It's all about one human and one levered and for those who don't know a levered is an infant hair. A bit like a rabbit but not a rabbit just to broaden things out even even more for you. Dominic are you happy to give us a
00:03:39
Speaker
broad little outline of of the subject matter
Exploring the Story's Impact and Production
00:03:44
Speaker
here. Yeah for sure for sure and so I didn't know what a lever it was this is a new word for me the poet not knowing what a lever it is now I do. ah What I'm going to do is I'm going to actually like try and be a bit spoiler free although this isn't the most plot heavy of narratives you know there's no airplane explosions.
00:04:06
Speaker
Superheroes flying in and like you know manipulating space and time. That doesn't happen. It's a very gentle story. But I'm going to describe it spoiler free first because what I'd really like you to do if you've not yet listened to it It's like, in total, all the episodes together is like 75 minutes long and it's really, really brilliant. So I do recommend like pausing the show and and listening to it. I'm gonna really try and sell it to you. It's really poetic. The language used is so well-written and the one human character is so likeable. And as a vegan, I'm used to hating the humans. in shows i always like the dog and it's like oh that in that protagonist awful like i think the protagonist is really intelligent makes some decisions which aren't the decisions that all protagonists in all things would make ah it's not read by the writers read by an actress and the actress has got a great voice puts a lot of appropriate levels of passion into this really gentle story it's not fast moving
00:05:21
Speaker
It is mellow. And I will say, I guess you could argue this is a slight trauma. The hair doesn't die. You're all right. The hair doesn't die. It's OK. Because I know like my mom, that's like a first question. like I'm not listening to it if the hair dies. So that's not where we're going. It's not like some some, you know, Hollywood escapade where the hero has a tragedy. It's not that. It's not that.
00:05:46
Speaker
ah So it's really insightful. I felt as a vegan listener that I was introduced to not just a compelling story but new information that I hadn't considered. I was with the human and the hare on every step of their story and I learned stuff. So yeah, so from here on,
00:06:11
Speaker
spoiler spoiler spoiler there ends the spoiler free bit so you know tune in to it and like come back to us afterwards I'm now assuming that you're here because you've already listened to it isn't it good eh? isn't it good?
00:06:26
Speaker
it's well good. Well I was just gonna say I really like the fact that you just said the word spoiler four times in quick succession because after you'd finished I was gonna say Dom could you just say the word spoiler because you actually use the words trauma instead of spoiler it at one point you were saying oh this isn't this isn't too much of a ah trauma but I think but ja that's fine I'll just cut one of those out and I'll put it back there.
00:06:48
Speaker
um ah yes right sorry i've lost my thread there i've lost yeah you should leave this bit in the podcast let the listen know that even the poet occasionally yeah dick yeah yeah the smoker mirrors god yeah yeah it so So yeah, as Dom says, like we'll assume at this point that you have gone back and listen to it. UK listeners, you can definitely follow the link in the show notes and you'll be able to listen to it right away. Really, really would recommend doing so. The three of us have all really enjoyed and gained from our experience listening to it. In in fact, it was recommended to me by a work colleague
00:07:25
Speaker
who listened to it recently and just said it's absolutely beautiful. So please do that. If you're living abroad, you might need to do a clever little VPN thing and where you convince your mobile device or computer that you live in the yeah UK in order to get BBC sounds. But um anyway, you'll find a way, it will be worth it. Julie, give us your feelings on the story just to start with and then Dom, I'll ask you to do the same and um I'll give my opinion too.
00:07:52
Speaker
I was pleasantly surprised by Chloe's determination from the very beginning to meet that little leverage where it was at and to care for it in the way that we should all care if we are in the position where we are providing care for any animal at all, whether it's domesticated or wild or whatever, or even a person, but to care for that person or animal on its terms
00:08:30
Speaker
not our own. And I think that, was you know, she did that from the absolute get-go and they are always the best relationships, I think. So, it's not a way of being around animals that's alien to me because it's how I am around animals instinctively.
00:08:52
Speaker
But it's lovely to see another human being respecting an animal's animalhood in that way and not trying to domesticate it and sort of bend it to her will or coddle it excessively or anything like that. So that was lovely and So I enjoyed that part of it. I just enjoyed the detail because I don't know at what point in this whole experience she thought, oh, I think I better a write a book about this. But she seems to have catalogued her experiences and sort of, you know, remembered in huge detail. I mean, it could some of it could just be fictional to to make a beautiful book. I don't know. But the detail is
00:09:39
Speaker
wonderful. It's lovely. You know, you can see the images, you can see the places that she's describing so well and you can see the little hair so beautifully. She's so good at describing every little tuft of fur on it and everything. And the end of it.
00:10:00
Speaker
I loved her conclusions about what the hair had taught her about life and about what was important to her and the the kind of enjoyment of things that are seemingly so simple.
00:10:17
Speaker
and so natural and not ah you know the artificial things that we all tend to fill our minds and lives with. And that's so resonated with me because I have the privilege of sharing my life with little sheep who on one level people think, oh yeah, funny Julie with her funny sheep and she makes little jokes about them and they're all funny and cuddly. But I am so hugely lucky that every single day of my life I will carve out time to be with those individuals and
00:10:56
Speaker
in enjoy an interaction that i can I don't have human words for, but I know when I walk back from the field, back to human-ness again, it takes me a while to adjust a bit like somebody who's bilingual, to back into the human blathers.
00:11:17
Speaker
nothing thing having communicated on a whole different wavelength for however long I've been up there, you know, and people must wonder, what the heck is she doing up there? You know, I mean, well, a lot of the time I am getting on with jobs that need to be done, but I always make sure I get time to just be and, a yeah, I absolutely treasure that. And to read about someone who is experiencing that kind of awe and recognizing all the wonderful attributes
00:11:57
Speaker
oh of an animal, you know, and she lists them. She notices the thing about the hair and the thing it ah the things in life it appreciates and and bits of its preferences and personality come through in her descriptions and the fact that she notices all these things. and that It made me cry, not in a sad way, but in that way that when tears come, and it doesn't happen to me very often, but sometimes when you are just absolutely on the same wavelength as somebody else. Tears come. It does for me anyway. and They're not really tears. I don't know what they are, but yeah, just the absolute resonance and the feeling of it. It made me happy that the day I listened to the last episode, I was so happy all day. I just felt absolutely affirmed
00:12:50
Speaker
what What a brillianter what brilliant advertisement for the for the show. Yeah, yeah I can i can ah can resonate with that too. Dominic, you've already given a very emphatic explanation as to why why people should listen. what What were your general feelings when listening to it? What were your general takeaways from this project?
00:13:10
Speaker
I loved the language it's what I would call a c prose poem because as Julie said the level of detail in the description was so thorough and imaginative and and consistent like really excellent writer's voice really beautiful it took me a bit to get into the flow because I am a spoken word artist who says words really rhythmically pow pow biff biff bang bang and like that this is not this you know and I was like oh it kind of got me thinking in a distracted way about the many distractions we have and I was like you know
00:13:58
Speaker
This is beautiful, Dominic. Are you able to distraction free tune into this? this is This is very different to the kind of art with which you usually engage. And yeah, as I mentioned before, the actress's voice is so good and so well matched with the writing. I really loved it. and Kind of complimenting what Julie said, I felt that it got better and better and better. It started strong and just you know really got so interesting. I was so surprised by her relationship at coexisting with animals and trusting the intelligence of animals and learning being
00:14:49
Speaker
humble enough to learn you know really I mean she's she's a woman in a certain I think it's fair to say privileged position there's a little talk of lockdown which I think historically is I'm always interested when people do acknowledge the awful experience of living through the pandemic and it's really interesting we all had time used in a different way so when she first meets the hair You know, she's got a lot of time and then hearing her being called away for work.
00:15:23
Speaker
was was really, really interesting. But again, she wasn't looking at it as a pet that the animal would not be okay unless she absolutely took control and removed its liberty, removed its intelligence. And then the babies come, and then the babies come, and you know yeah, wonderful, really. I have tears in the final episode too, so moving.
00:15:49
Speaker
Did you have tears, Ant? I mean, Meatloaf would say two out of three ain't bad, so if only Julian and I cried, that's enough. Ant, you don't have tears. I've noticed he's not a tears kind of man ever. I do. No, I do. Things do move me to tears. This didn't, but I still found it a very beautiful piece of work. I'm really glad to have invested the time in to listen to it and and to be to have it referred to me from from a colleague that I i work with. I think there's for me a lot that I took from it. I'm i'm lucky enough to to work with people in an environment where we do our very best. It's it's a natural environment, it's ah it's a woodland but we are we're using it for human-based activity whilst trying to not interfere
00:16:40
Speaker
with non-human animals, are more than human, we we tend to call it activity, so that there was a lot of resonance there but nonetheless there was still ah that a lot that I learned from it and took from it. I thought just separate from anything else, the production values of it, like the soundtrack I thought was brilliant, um as you've already said um Dominic Lisa Faulkner who who reads it does does an absolutely brilliant
Writing Style and Vegan Perspective
00:17:03
Speaker
job. I'd say it's one to almost like draw a long bath and like listen to the first two or three episodes back to back you know that would take up three quarters of an hour because like you say Dominic have you you know very often I'll listen to stuff when I'm running and like if I was doing like a high tempo run listening to this it just would not it would not work at all you know I think you do need to
00:17:26
Speaker
ah create space to to listen to something that is at quite a slow pace. Yeah, I mean it's it's just ah probably with a few exceptions that aren't coming immediately to mind. It's kind of a ah vision of ah a vegan future where there are animals around us and and we're you know we're living with them and and we're using our resources to to make their lives better in a way that's not detracting from their natural wild instincts. imino I was impressed with that. she She seemed to have instincts in terms of dealing with what was at the very start of of a very wild animal when she first found it. She had instincts that I would not have done. I mean i personally wouldn't have gone anywhere near it, perhaps because I
00:18:12
Speaker
I know my limitations, I know what I don't know, but she was, you know, trying not to, she put gloves on, I think, to to handle it because she didn't want to put a human scent on it and and and and think and things like this that I just wouldn't have, I wouldn't have known that, but maybe I'm...
00:18:28
Speaker
Well, she didn't know, did she? Because then she was told that the human gloves were not enough, that the hair would still be rejected for the human sense. So again, I thought how humble she was at like, owning up to getting stuff wrong was was really, really good. I've just realised that I kind of gave my spoiler free stuff going, oh, the hair doesn't die. But something this does do, and I feel this segues beautifully from the more descriptive and plot driven bits. It does give some facts and statistics along the way about hairs living in danger from humans, about you know the realities of the negative impact of humans. It does give some cold facts.
00:19:16
Speaker
but it never it never tore me out of the experience. I never felt like, oh, she's just turned this into a lecture now. It felt it felt gentle and informative and flowed seamlessly. Yeah. I mean, it it's interesting you say that because i've I've just got a biography on her here. and It's from on the National Centre for Writing, who have a podcast and and she features on an episode of that.
00:19:42
Speaker
um and It says here about um her talking about the art of observation and noticing when writing about nature and the power of research when writing about nature, wildlife, and the environment. So kind of having an informed element of things is clearly something that's important to it in her writing. But nonetheless, it's, or rather, and um it's it's beautiful writing as well, isn't it? Something that's really difficult to achieve. I struggle to this. If I'm doing a poem about, like,
00:20:14
Speaker
gay rights and I talk about the history of homosexuality you can talk in a way that excludes people if you're presuming they have a certain level of knowledge which they might not have no disrespect to them we know what we know we don't know what we don't know so I've attended many poetry events where somebody starts talking about some political figure and it's like I want to put my hand up and say I don't know who that person is and I feel thick for not knowing and that's poor work on behalf of the speaker but similarly on the opposite end of the scale you could be really patronizing you could really talk down to your own like oh you know so I'm an expert I bet you've you know I bet you've never heard of the organization Peter have you well let me tell you it's an acronym do you know what an acronym is you know like you got this really like
00:21:06
Speaker
you think and ah it It went to neither of those extremes. like When she was sharing information, she was just saying stuff that was true and I didn't feel talked down to, but I also felt ah not embarrassed that lot I didn't. I was given enough information that I could engage.
00:21:23
Speaker
I thought I was someone who would always ways completely stick up for wildlife and be hurt and angered when trees were cut down and habitats were spoiled for building and all the rest of it. I thought I was as much kind of invested in that as I could go, but having listened to the fact that she'd uncovered about the amount of space that that, you know, a single hair requires in the territory and all the rest of it for it to thrive. It really has ramped all that up in me. And while I was listening to that episode where she talks about, you know, the space and all the rest the that hairs require for for their thriving and survival,
00:22:15
Speaker
I just got word of, in a wood close to where I live, someone has taken the liberty of, um they're cutting down a whole load of trees, they've made a car park, they are constructing and it sounds it sounds kind of nice on the face of it but it's actually caused so many trees to go, an eco yoga centre with accompanying holiday accommodations and a great big car park and that was right while I was listening to that episode that that kind of came through on my phone because it was on Facebook. And normally I wouldn't have given that a second thought too much, do you know what I mean? But when it kind of was juxtaposed with what she was talking about, I just thought, oh my goodness, you're so
00:23:05
Speaker
getting it wrong, you know, in order to get people healthy and back to nature, there was a lovely wood there for them to walk about in. They didn't need to drive over here, park their cars and then sit and do... It's not eco yoga. It's not eco if it's made a habitat disappear. There's nothing eco about it. So, yeah. And and that was ah that was a really good example that she gave in in the series where she talked to about a again a local woodland where somebody had been ascribing some damage that had been done to to some part of it to a hare and then shot it and then seen that it was lactating and then pursued its young to to to shoot them as well and there were there were three things I noted down that I was like this is a this piece of work can be used to help people understand, I'm going to say our way of looking at the world, ah called a vegan way of looking at what the world or a non-animal oppressive way of looking at the world. I think that that is one because you can see where someone is like
00:24:19
Speaker
in one way well-meaning because they're raising a woodland but actually they can do things that are horribly disruptive and ah nasty so that was one gosh my memory's not doing very well now what was the other one oh yes the bit where she's reading out recipes for how to cook hair she's trying to find out how to trying to research how to look after hairs and but all she can find is recipes of how to cook them and how that feels like treachery or like an awful thing when she's got the hair right there in front of her and that's that's how i feel when i see people cooking meat or or describing all this chicken dinner they had the other day or um you know talking about a recipe or whatever that's that's something that i instinctively feel
00:25:05
Speaker
and people don't get that they just kind of like oh no it's this wonderful food it's like no no no i'm not seeing it that way and i thought that was a great insight inter into actually how there's a different way of looking at it things um and the third one i've.
00:25:20
Speaker
it's Vanished out of my head but I think because this is such a I don't think there'd be many people who if you told them about this story and you said you know there's this story of of this person who's who's come across a vulnerable um infant hair and is almost like nurse nursed it back to.
00:25:39
Speaker
to health, I suppose, and and and to be wild. Again, I don't think there's many people who'd say, oh, what a stupid story, I'm not listening to that. I think that's the kind of story that would grab and grip and and entrap lots of people into kind of seeing things in that way.
Music, Production, and Author's Views
00:25:55
Speaker
There are enough examples in that story where you can go, yeah, and you see that little bit there,
00:26:01
Speaker
That's where I'm coming from, where I talk about animal rights. That's where I come from when I'm talking about not interfering with animals' lives or how can you possibly see that as food? It's, you know, it's it's an animal. And for me, that's just looking at things from a vegan point of view. That was that was a really effective part of this because they're just these little nuggets where you can be like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Do you understand? Do you get what I mean now? Which was great. Were there any other highlights that anybody had in particular? The music music was beautiful, wasn't it? like it was really um The entire production level was so high quality. and yeah One little ingredient like that. A bit like baking a vegan cake. One ingredient slightly off and you just end up with a load of sugary stodge.
00:26:52
Speaker
and This was not sugary studge. I thought the music perfectly complimented it. It wasn't twee. harsh. It was...
00:27:06
Speaker
really, really gently joyful. That's why I'd call the tone gently joyful. I think the whole series was just really clever in that there are lots of people out there, and I'm probably one of them, who would possibly never pick up that book and read the whole thing.
00:27:25
Speaker
But actually, we've all benefited probably from the biggest messages and the best bits, and we haven't had to sit still looking at a book or… Do you know I could listen to it and and go about my business at the same time. So it's made It's got all the important aspects of the book over to a much, much wider audience, I think. So I think it's really the series, the BBC Sound series is really precious because it's so accessible. I think it's great. OK, so i have ah I have a question that i I think often we would ask of this kind of thing normally, if we were dissecting it for the news or something like that. How would each of you feel
00:28:11
Speaker
if you heard an interview with the author Chloe Dalton. and the question was asked about her diet and she found out that she consumes animal products. Like, would that change things for you? I have not further researched any of this and I presumed that she did eat meat. I presumed that because a lot of folks do. I mean, every now and again, we come across these glorious stories like, I mean, I'm showing my age here, showing my age, that act.
00:28:43
Speaker
ah who played the farmer in the movie Babe the sheep pig who like you know went vegan because he's like how can I you know so that's brilliant you know maybe ah Chloe is on her own journey I think You know, I'm going to call back to what I've said on um intersectionality in the past. my my My problem with the concept of intersectionality, intersectionality being, you know, let's not just focus on one topic. If we're being vegan, can we be like ah
00:29:16
Speaker
you know, pro-gay rights, anti-racism, you know, intersectionality, don't just focus on one point, focus on all the good stuff. But my problem with that, my problem with that is that I'm a gay man who is incredibly upset and angered by homophobia, but people who are really homophobic have had really beneficial things for me to offer. And if I cut them out, if I cut them out and be like they are homophobic, I'm not going to listen to them. Well, A, I won't benefit from areas of wisdom they've got. They're wrong for being homophobic. They are wrong, but they could be right about other things. Life isn't one way or the other. It's not all black or all white. And similarly, you know, they open by engaging. I'm opening a dialogue where I have the potential to talk about um gay rights with them.
00:30:06
Speaker
So similarly, I don't know if the author is vegan or not, but I certainly feel after this, this is a good, it'd be great to ask her, you know, what is your diet? It would be really, really good. And whatever her answer is, I have benefited from this. I have benefited from this. I've learned things that I didn't learn from this. But I'd like to know if she was vegan.
00:30:30
Speaker
Well, as we know, veganism's not a diet, so I'm not really worried what our diet is. In some ways, I have a glimpse into what her attitude to animals is and to human interference as where animals go, in a sense. So, she appears to have some kind of an animal rights or vegan perspective on life and values whether or not those are translated into, you know, what she's buying or consuming or wearing or whatever on a day to day basis, I don't know. I have watched an interview with Chloe Dalton.
00:31:15
Speaker
And I did find her... How can I put this? I did find her different to what I was expecting. So I was kind of expecting a person who spoke like she wrote.
00:31:32
Speaker
and who spoke a bit like Lisa Faulkner in Interview and Chloe Dalton's not like that at all when you see her interviewed. She doesn't strike you as being somebody, she seems absolutely lovely, very articulate and intelligent.
00:31:50
Speaker
But if you had to pair the person that I saw interviewed with, you know, if there was a selection of people and a selection of books and you had to match them up, I wouldn't have matched her up with am raising hair. So I don't know. Nothing would surprise me about the contrariness of human beings and how beautifully they can advocate for animals and yet do the cognitive dissonance bit. I have plenty of friends who will really stick up for animals and really tell me
00:32:32
Speaker
things that are awful that are happening to animals and really be massively concerned about my sheep being cold or lots of really caring attitudes come through about animals and yet they will go into a restaurant or a cafe and by dead animals and they'll have them in their fridge at home and wear them on their feet and do you know do all kinds of stuff so nothing would surprise me. If Chloe Dalton was still consuming meat I wouldn't be that surprised but oh it would be lovely if she was vegan.
00:33:09
Speaker
Yeah and I mean we've we've heard from enough of the falafel contributor Luke who was you know very actively campaigning on behalf of dogs in laboratories um a few years ago um and was still consuming meat himself and you know he's now vegan and and is on the show and is you know is a fabulous fabulous member of the animal rights community but you know if everyone's journey starts somewhere and like you've both said it's um it's been a piece of work that's brought a lot of value i think to work to us listening to it and to lots of people and is is nudging lots of people's dials in a more
00:33:45
Speaker
animal friendly, less oppressive direction, I guess. And, you know, we we can't fault that.
Case Study: Wild Boar and Domestication
00:33:51
Speaker
I just wanted to quickly before before I hear your last thoughts, there was ah a news story the the week that we were listening to this from the animal reader, which we get a lot of stories from, which is be interested in your take on this. So the the raising hair story is about um somebody who's found an injured levered, has taken it in, been very, you know,
00:34:14
Speaker
non-oppressive, non-interfering, nursed it back to health and and has been sort of leaving it to its itself really. And then we've got this story from the Animal Reader this week. French woman can keep adopted wild boar court rules. So the story runs a French court ruled on Thursday that the wild boar roulette could remain on her farm in central France. Horse breeder, Elodie Capet,
00:34:40
Speaker
wreck rescued Rilett as a piglet. The decision came after authorities had threatened to remove and euthanise the animal, sparking public outcry and support from animal rights groups. Kepp found Rilett near her farm in April 2023 and cared for her after failed attempts to release her back into the wild. Rilett, now a fully grown female pig, lives happily among horses and dogs on the farm. Capet ensured the bill was sterilised, vaccinated and had a secure enclosure.
00:35:08
Speaker
but authorities repeatedly denied her requests to keep the animal. She faced potential fines of 150,000 euros and even prison time for keeping a wild animal. But there was lots of press attention, a petition, local protests, even support from French actress Brigitte Bardot and now basically everything' everything's been there.
00:35:32
Speaker
dropped she's been awarded one and a half thousand euros in damages um and it's been considered as a victory. What do you think? Well, she's not an animal rights advocate and she's not a vegan. That was my first thought. I was like, oh, a horse breaker. Yeah, and exactly that. So she is someone who has named and confined, you know, and and names and confines animals for her gratification. And she has named and confined this one and grown attached to it and wants to keep it. So
00:36:06
Speaker
In doing so, she saved this animal's life. So, yes, that is a good thing, but it's not in the same league and it's not the same kind of value base, if you see what I mean. It's ah it's ah it's more of a narrative that the majority of the general public, as I understand them to be,
00:36:28
Speaker
would relate to in that, you know, taking an animal in and domesticating it and it becomes dependent upon you and you get lots of gratification from its presence on your terms all the time, and whatever. you don't You don't think Dominic a yeah a nice little sequel to to Raising Hair with some nice hurdy gurdy music in the background, a different soundtrack.
00:36:55
Speaker
based in central France with the wild boar? I mean for fear of talking about something like really really sad and I do like forewarn the listeners that you know like they're the sad thing which you know we're probably all aware of I do recall oh we're going back like 20 years ago I was just on the cusp of going vegan I was vegetarian and I'd been to the odd vegan festivals and you know social media was beginning to get more prevalent in my life and I became aware of the the the animal the slow loris and you know like so many folks so this is like a a primate you know like there's a monkey type creature and there's loads of cute videos
00:37:38
Speaker
um And i I just loved, I became like, you know, the biggest fan of like the slow loris. And of course, similar to what Jude is describing, you know, these are animals who, that that they're not, it's not good. It is not good people having them, you know, it's really, really not. And I was reduced to tears. The person I was dating at the time, I was like so upset. And I felt so stupid that I'd shared stuff online. I'd been like, look at this beautiful animal. And the the guy I was dating, he said to me, oh, but I'm sure these ones are happy. I'm sure these ones, you know, because he was trying to be kind and trying to comfort me. And I was like,
00:38:15
Speaker
It is deeply wrong, and I've been part of this deeply wrong, like these destruction in the environment, how they're, you know, restrained and, and ah you know, the cruelty they go through to domesticify them, to make them our puppets, our cuddly toys. yeah Awful, awful, awful. I won't go into details because it's really, really awful. And this story sounds not a million miles away from that. I've got no doubt that the woman, the horse breeder's life is in incredibly enriched by um by you know like having having the the animals with her. But like did did no, no, it's mine. No. place It's not a wild boar anymore, is it? Put it that way. Whereas that one of the lovely things about the the story about the Leveret is that, to all intents and purposes, it was as wild as it perhaps could be. go Still making regular trips back to the house, but I think the
00:39:09
Speaker
the priority was on keeping it wild, wasn't
Reflections on Human-Animal Relations
00:39:12
Speaker
it? that's that's what i And it's surely like, you know, one of the kind of core facets of what us vegans would call speciesism, this assumption that humans are the higher force, the more intelligent force that, you know, those silly animals going about, you know, like, oh, just like wandering into, you know, fatal situations and we must protect them from their own existence. You know, it's such an arrogant, arrogant, incorrect, deeply ignorant stance to take. And I was really surprised by raising hair, like, you know the the you know, Chloe being so open to what she had learned on her journey and how her
00:40:02
Speaker
starts to change and indeed you know it had it challenged me and I learned from it so yeah hooray for animals being animals and being wise being wise yeah absolutely well you've've you've mentioned there Dominic what you've learned from it if we can finish off with just here from everybody just very quickly When would you use or recommend this this audio series from the BBC and has it changed your outlook on anything like your your own advocacy or just your own understanding of animal rights? Are you happy to go first Julie? When would you recommend and what have you learned from it?
00:40:37
Speaker
I would recommend it to anybody, really. I really would. And I did. ah You know, that it was one of these things that the minute I'd finished listening to it, I sent it to one of my friends who I was really sure would really vibe with it.
00:40:56
Speaker
only to find that she had bought the book oh already for her father, but not read it. But, but do you know, I mean, I'd kind of judged that one quite right. But yeah, I just wanted to share it with everybody um as soon as I had finished listening to it. And what did I learn? I learned a bit about hairs and I, as I've already said, really, it really brought it home to me how not okay it is for humans to be encroaching on animal space and that we should be doing so as minimally as possible and it really made me and and this is going to set me apart even further from the human race but I don't know how bothered I am about that
00:41:45
Speaker
but it really makes me dislike things like gyms and swimming pools and cinemas and things that I have used in the past and benefited from and appreciated and I just thought, oh but you know, look what we cut down for all those silly distractions to be there. But I mean they're quite small scale things but there are really big scale things where we have just destroyed whole habitats and concreted over them and built stuff that we could have done without. Like animal agriculture. Oh yes, oh yes, absolutely. So yeah, it's kind of ramped that up in me really, that's what I would say.
00:42:30
Speaker
Dominic, what would you recommend when would you recommend it and what have you learned from it? Do you know what? I'm going to, instead of answering your question like a polite person, I'm going to answer the opposite i'm going to answer an opposite question. I'm going to give i'm goingnna give a critique. I'm going to give one thing. I mean, critique's too strong a word, but one thing that I question, right?
00:42:49
Speaker
is it too slow is it too slow is it too slow for such a brilliant piece of work like i'll give a comparison comic books exist and comic books with superhero superhero stories in comic books they are slow they are slow they are over numerous issues they are not quick-paced superhero comic book characters exist in movies which are all bang bang bang bang bang bang bang I went to see one of the recent spider-man movies and I couldn't keep up it was I felt it was an attack on my senses and I'm of the sonic the hedgehog generation do you know what I mean I was like oh my word this is a movie for people younger than me the attention deficit of this movie I couldn't keep up I just felt a sensory overload and
00:43:40
Speaker
I think it would be really good and this is going to sound soooo patronizing. Raising air for the TikTok generation. Raising air for the TikTok generation because and you know we we spoke about the difference between the book which is longer and this version which is edited but could there be a further edit because i just know so many people who would start listening and hear about chloe on a walk could be like yeah you're on a walk come on cara you met her what you're gonna do right yeah yeah cut cut to the chase you know so
00:44:16
Speaker
I think that's a shame that I've got friends who I know would love this, and I've got friends who would not get past episode one, and I implore them to do so. It was like the opposite of that fast-paced Spider-Man thing. I think I mentioned earlier on this show that I had to really readjust my way of engaging, because I was like, oh, this is slower than I was expecting it to be. Come on, Dominic, come on, you've agreed to do a podcast, persevere. And I found the first episode all the episodes are very very short as we know like i found that quite difficult to just readjust my way with which i engaged to it so by about episode three i was like in the groove and i was like following it loads of people would give up they would so could we have raising air for the tick tock generation do you know what you you've you've preempted what i was what i was going to question myself yeah i i personally think when recommending it i i would like julie said i
00:45:15
Speaker
I will recommend this to everybody. I would do a little Facebook post about it. ah Not that that's everybody. but um like I think I would, with that, I would caveat that with, yeah, pour yourself a bath and and kind of give this some time to breathe. I would be interested to see, a ah yeah, a TikTok ah version of this. I think there's something in this sentiment that Chloe's putting out there in terms of how our own pace perhaps does need to slow down to notice these things about wild animals and and and things like that. actually there's
00:45:51
Speaker
There's an element of us needing to be adjustable in our own pace and not dictating that
Recommendations and Upcoming Content
00:45:58
Speaker
the whole time. But I do agree with you, Dom, like there are some people who this just won't be for, but that's, you know, that's fine. Nothing's for everyone, is it? But yeah, I think i think a lot of people will need a pace warning. um But otherwise, i think i can't think of I think it would be a cold hearted soul who would not be moved by this story um and in terms of the the learning that I took from it um everything that has already been said plus I think I just think that humility of accepting that we don't know very much
00:46:30
Speaker
is a really really important thing to hold and so much of Dom you've mentioned like our arrogance or maybe it's Julie or maybe you both did like the arrogance um and self-importance of human beings like we we just assume we know everything and we just don't we just don't and I think the yeah the the slower and more gentle and more humble we can be that the better for ourselves and and for everyone Well, I would like to just say that on the topic of stillness, she does make that observation that she did not tame the hare but the hare showed her. I can't remember the quote exactly but the hare was untamed but it kind of taught her stillness within her. There is a lovely quote, I didn't write it down, I wish I had now.
00:47:22
Speaker
but that she does use that word stillness. she let on that right The hair was untamed but she learned stillness from the hair and that's what you need to absorb. that We don't need a ticked up version I don't think but we do need to. I'm not saying to replace it, I'm saying an addition to it. No, we do need to prepare and get in touch with our own stillness. but Well, we three have clearly enjoyed the Raising Hair series. If you enjoyed this episode, or indeed any of our work, here's maybe something you could do for us.
00:48:08
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free enough of the falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player. That will also help the show pop up when people search for... I want to say ah to our listeners that maybe they'd like to hear some more high impact ah creative writing in real life because there's vegan festivals coming up, isn't there Ant?
00:48:50
Speaker
Oh, there are. There are. And in fact, Dominic, is there not one or two near you in the sort of like Easter time? That sort of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I'm a spoken word poet who lives in Manchester and if you are in the kind of greater Manchester area, in Stockport... on Sunday February the 9th in the morning I'm one of the ah guest speakers so I'll be performing my vegan poetry which is appropriate for all the families that's the 9th of February and then later on there's one actually slap bang in the middle of Manchester and that's on a Saturday
00:49:25
Speaker
Saturday the 12th of April. um So that's in Central Manchester, Saturday the 12th of April. So have a look at the yeah Manchester Vegan festivals online. And yeah, it would be I'll be giving a big shout out to Enough For The Falafel at these events. And if any of our listeners want to come along, yeah I'd be really happy if someone came up and went, oh yeah, I've heard you on Enough For The Falafel. That would really, really make me smile. Never think that poets don't want to be approached and told that they're good. because poets love being approached and told they're good. I love being approached and told that I'm good. So, you know, it'd be grand to to see some of our listeners at one of the vegan events. maybe Maybe someone could heckle one of your poems and just shout out, enough of the falafel.
00:50:12
Speaker
um Anyway, whether whether you were are somebody that likes shouting at spoken word poets or expresses yourself through writing or however, we love hearing from you. So do get in touch by email. We are enough of the falafel at gmail.com. ah That's how you can get in touch with us. um I just wanted to say thank you, Dominic. Thank you, Julie, for for your contributions for this episode. It's been absolute ho longer than a normal vegan talk episode. But hey, we had lots to say about this one, didn't we?
00:50:44
Speaker
And if you want to join us again, the next Enough of the Falafel episode is available from Monday the 10th of February. It features Aunt, Myself phone key and it's a Vegan Week episode so it's our usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:51:06
Speaker
Anyway that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you Julie, thank you Anthony for your contributions and thanks again everyone for listening. I have been Dominic and you have been listening to a vegan talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:51:27
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:52:08
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring a brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from