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141- Going Vegan: "Can you be vegan with an eating disorder...or are you just restricting calories?"
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In our fifth episode of this second series of 'Going Vegan', we speak to Elena who tells us about growing up in rural Spain, how an unexpected parallel between her twin sister's academic textbook led her to vegetarianism, and how the waters became muddied when a real desire to live as a vegan for moral and ethical reasons...was paired with disordered eating.
We're incredibly grateful for Elena's vulnerability in sharing such a personal story, and hope that in so doing we can all learn from her experience. If however, hearing a conversation that covers the topic of eating disorders feels a bit much right now, then do of course find a different show to listen to. As always, all of our shows- including this one- will remain available for you to come back to another time, if you so choose.
To learn more about Plant-based Health Professionals, and the work they do, including with disordered eating, visit https://plantbasedhealthprofessionals.com/. Incidentally, on the week this episode was published, they released this fact sheet relating to binge eating disorder for example https://plantbasedhealthprofessionals.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/BingeEatingDisorder-21.01.25.pdf
If you enjoy this episode, check your feed for the many other Going Vegan episodes that have been dropping throughout the last year & a bit.
If you'd like to hear more of what we do, set up all your notifications, as we release two other weekly shows: Vegan Week- where we discuss the week's vegan/animal rights news- and Vegan Talk- where we go deeper into one subject in particular that is relevant to the vegan movement.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
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Elena & Ant
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Transcript
Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone, just before we get into this last episode of season two of The Going Vegan Show, just wanted to let you know that in this episode, we will be talking about disordered eating. ah So if that is a subject that you're not comfortable listening to right now, then that's absolutely fine. Skip this one, find something else in our catalog. And if you change your mind or things change at any point in the future, you know exactly where to come back because this, like all our episodes will stay on the archive forever more.
00:00:30
Speaker
So there we are. Let's get into the show.
Elena's Vegan Journey
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, my name is Elena and you are listening to The Going Vegan Show.
00:00:45
Speaker
Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere without doing that in the state of Florida. your protein and what about your iron Do they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute, you always pay attention.
00:01:12
Speaker
as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:21
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello everybody and welcome to the last in this January series of The Going Vegan Show and I'm delighted to have Elena with us today. You're gonna get to meet Elena just like I have a few minutes ago really looking forward to hearing this story. Elena, you've been a listener to the show for a little while now, haven't you? Yeah, I think I discovered you last Christmas. or Yeah, I think it was last Christmas when with one of your podcasts about being the only vegan at work and I truly enjoy it and I have
00:01:59
Speaker
listening to you since then. So thank you. But no, thank you. Thank you. We definitely wouldn't do it if people didn't listen. So it's great and brilliant to to be able to learn a bit more about you and your story today. So we'll start as we always do. What's the furthest back you can detect any kind of hint that you might one day be sitting here as a vegan or ah I understand you you were like a lot of people, you were vegetarian first. What were the first kind of hints that that might be a direction for
Cultural Influences on Vegetarianism
00:02:28
Speaker
you? Actually, I grew up in a tiny village in rural Spain. So I didn't grow up being taught that animals should be treated equally and with respect, unfortunately. But I remember just being as a child, like I i always loved like animals. Like when I saw an animal, it was like really
00:02:49
Speaker
deep inside me that I need to be compassionate to them. I mean, when people like, you know, there's pool fighting in the streets, you know, during the main event in the summer. And I remember, like, I did not enjoy that. Like, I knew that animals should not suffer just for us to have a nice evening, quote unquote, or and then I remember since then, then when I was like a teenager, I started like thinking, hmm,
00:03:19
Speaker
maybe eating them is even not really nice. So I i knew, I think when I was a teenager, I knew I was not gonna eat animals somehow, but at that point I was still living with my parents and actually have no idea how to cook or not even knowing they were vegetarian, not even vegan. So I didn't know it was it was a possibility, but for some reason it still didn't clicked on my mind.
00:03:47
Speaker
And then when I became vegetarian, it was vegetarian at first, it was when I was 19. And I really remember the exact moment when it happened because I have a twin sister and she studied veterinary and I and i was studying industrial design.
00:04:05
Speaker
And I remember she was studying and I just took one of her books because, you know, veterinarians also study like they to work on the farm in the industry. And I remember taking one of her books and they were talking about the animals the exact same way that in my books, they were talking about materials for production. And when I saw that, I was like, but I mean, in my books, they talk about steel or plastic. Why are they using the same words for ah living sent sentient animals?
00:04:36
Speaker
And then it was that moment I said like I have I don't want to be part of this. I stopped eating meat or anything like that straight away. Yeah. so it It sounds like that there was like a bit of a build up or we might use the word like latent like there was this latent potential that's kind of like sitting there because you're saying earlier on.
00:04:57
Speaker
like you had at the back of your mind that that one day you you wouldn't consume animals, but it was just waiting for like a trigger or something? Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure if if if I were growing up in this area, that veganism is more known and there's old milk and soy milk in every supermarket, I'm pretty sure I would go vegetarian or vegan way sooner and i and I regret not having done that sooner but I mean it was Spain in the 90s so I mean I did I mean my path it was the rhythm it was I would love to rush it if I could go back on time but it was it happened when it happened but
00:05:42
Speaker
I'm really glad that today it's easier and not only easier in the in the way that going to the supermarkets you'll find some easy vegan substitutes. Also, it's easier because you know is possible. Even when you don't know anybody, for example, in in my case, I don't know any other vegan, but at least there are podcasts, there's people on the internet. So I think it's easier in that way. you don't You know it's possible and you know, quote unquote, people that they are. So yeah, it it was a good
Transition Challenges and Family Concerns
00:06:14
Speaker
lab thing for me. I think it's, you've raised like two things there, because like there's the the seeing that it's possible, but also people might not even have thought about animal rights before or anything like that, but there there could still be something in them, whether it's compassion, whether it's sensitivity, whether it's a love of animals, whatever it is that makes them
00:06:36
Speaker
sort of vegan ready if you like. that They're ready waiting for a trigger but actually if you don't see oat milk in a shop or you don't come across a documentary or meet a vegan at work or whatever there might not be anything that kind of turns that light on I guess. Yeah yeah that's true I mean I think for example if you if you like I was living in a village and every time I was passing through the big farms you you hear them screaming and even though you're not being raised in a vegan family or you haven't not watched any documentary, you hear those screams and and they are disappointed. I mean, you don't like them. So that sensibility, I think everyone has that. The thing is, if you live in a more animal rights focused environment, it's easier for you to make that click and say, you know what, I don't want to be part of this. I think it's it's easier.
00:07:30
Speaker
And yeah, as you said, like many people has that seat inside. The only thing is we we we need to to water it a bit more. maybe Have the right conditions for it to germinate. Yeah, for sure. So it sounds like you've you've kind of got this motivation that's been slowly building up. And then there's this this moment where it's clicked. Was there nonetheless some doubts or some hesitations or some some worries about Making that step for yourself at that time. Can you remember actually I don't I it was not maybe for for my family They were like maybe she's gonna like everyone all the mothers for example if she's gonna miss something because we all know that maybe
00:08:15
Speaker
sausages, they are the most nutritious thing in the world. At that point, when when I'm the kind of person that once my mind takes a decision, I don't think of, I mean, if there's something I might, I will work it. No, I was not worried and I just decided that I did not want to admit. I mean, it was even It's funny because at the beginning, it I was missing the flavor, but on the other hand, I was seeing the the more the animal than less the product. So yeah, it's it's a bit weird at the beginning, especially when you're still craving the flavors, but on the other hand, your mind is so already telling you, no, no, no, this is an animal. It's not food. This is a dead animal. So yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
But no, at the beginning it was easy. I just took the decision and I just went for it. Tons of chips because I had no idea how to cook, so a lot of pasta. so But yeah, I made it. I survived. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Fantastic. Can I ask, like, you're you've got a twin sister that's studying veterinary care, you know, a profession where you're caring for animals. Like, can I ask what her initial reaction is? Can you remember?
00:09:28
Speaker
Actually, she she was kind of supportive. A few months later, she became a vegetarian as well. so yeah yeah I always say that I became a vegetarian because of her and she became a vegetarian because of me. I love it. I love it. yeah Well, you you became you became that catalyst. Yeah, it was it was her trigger.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So you've you've described um maybe a slightly limited ability to cook um ah vegetarian food in terms of practicalities, like how did things develop in those first few months of of being vegetarian?
Struggle with Eating Disorder
00:10:08
Speaker
actually vegetarianism helped me a lot because otherwise i'm pretty sure i would not be being able to cook because i had to cook for myself for the first time i mean i used to go when i was a teenager but let's say but let's be honest what what teenagers cook so ah yeah and then for the first time i had to cook properly for myself like full meals and i had to prove that I could be vegetarian, like especially for my parents. So I had to so start cooking. Actually, my sister, she she gave me my first cooking book. So it was... And then at the beginning, they have the first few pages, like talking about nutrition. Where do you get this? Where do you get that? And then
00:10:50
Speaker
That gave me the first clues about nutrition because before that I was like, you're hungry, you eat. That's it. And then I started to cook, i started to look at ingredients at the at the grocery store because at the time it was not like a vegetarian or vegan label anywhere.
00:11:06
Speaker
So you start looking at labels, you start knowing ingredients, you start knowing vegetables. So actually it helped me a lot to sort know how to cook and how to eat because I started to eat more veggies, healthier. so It was great at the beginning. I mean, first three months just passed on chips and then I was like, OK, I need to I need to start eating. properly live So, yeah, it actually helped me a lot. So all good. Yeah. Yeah. What a positive, pleasant surprise. That's great. So we're talking now and you're vegan.
00:11:43
Speaker
we've focused thus far about you being vegetarian. So how how does your story unfold from from there? Yeah, I went vegetarian when I was 19 and I became vegan like two years ago. I'm 35 now. So it was when I was 32. So I'm just 35, just a couple of months ago. So yeah, when I was 32 and it took me that long, unfortunately, because I suffer from an eating disorder that started like when I was 22 or 23 sorry if I don't remember properly it has been but quite a quite a long time ago but yeah I developed it when I when i became like ah like an adult when I entered adult adult life
00:12:27
Speaker
I finished my my studies, my degree when I was 21 and I moved straight away to the UK, I moved to London. And then I moved out of my parents' house to another country, to another city with and a different language.
00:12:43
Speaker
it was 2011 or 2012 so we were in that terrible recession in Spain so it was quite a stressful time economically and yeah ah my my mind was focused on working, working, working and unfortunately one year after that I started to have like weird things, thoughts about food, like I had to to start like counting calories which I have never done before in my life, starting counting grams of sugar, grams of fat, grams of all that and I did not realize that was doing that actually because i did it was like a coping mechanism from
00:13:22
Speaker
for other life, I realize now. A couple of years later, when I moved back to Spain, remember my family was saying, why you are you so skinny? Because I dropped a lot of weight in those years.
00:13:35
Speaker
in in the UK. I have nothing but good to say about about London and about England. I really love my my my stay there. But at the beginning, people were thinking that I lost weight because I was working two jobs at the beginning. Then I moved to I start i was i was always on on doing something like having studying, working. I remember not stopping during those years. And people were thinking that maybe it was a stress that made me lose weight because I've i've always been quite thin, but on those days was super, super skinny. And when I went back to Spain, my sister, God bless her, she realized that I was waiting all my food. like
00:14:21
Speaker
not cooking with oil, you know, doing all these awful things that nobody should do, actually, unless you have like a really bad health condition. But yeah, I was, I was fully into anorexia. I started just like, a just like counting on trying to be healthier again, on quotes, but that fully developed an eating disorder in my case. And then my sister She helped me and she made me go to the to the GP and that and from there they sent me to the specialist in the Social Security which is like the NHS. I remember my feelings the to the animal rights were like again increasing and I knew I wanted to stop drinking milk which I've never done really but not eating cheese nor eating eggs and I wanted it to be vegan.
00:15:15
Speaker
But at that time, when I when i just vocalized it, like you know what? I'm going vegan. And people were saying, like do you want to be vegan? Or is the eating in disorder that wants you to restrict more? Because in my case, it was a restrictive.
00:15:29
Speaker
it's in eating this disorder. And on that time, unfortunately, I believe them because when you start treating the the illness, the first thing that people tell you is you do not trust your brain. It's not going to tell you that you are skinny. It's not going to tell you that you have not eaten enough. So do not trust your brain. At that time, I believed them. So I did not eat animal anything at home. like I did not eat eggs. I stopped eating cheese. But if I was going out and there was, I don't know, like a cake, I was like trying to to make everybody believe that I was doing well by eating that. And I remember like feeling bad after eating. And at that time, I did not realize if I was feeling bad because of the calories or because of the animal product. But now I know it was because of the animal product. So yeah.
00:16:20
Speaker
that Actually, when when the doctor was telling me, please don't go vegan because it's the illness that styling is trying to make you restrict more, and that time it also gave me more clutter in my headspace.
00:16:37
Speaker
So it it was not helpful at all. i mean And the other thing I wanted to say is that they wanted me to to eat meat and fish again. But i as I told you, once I make a decision, there's no going back. So I did not listen to them on that. So at least I was still vegetarian in those years. And what I wanted to say, and that's why I'm telling my my eating disorder part, is that people still think that veganism is just a diet.
Veganism Beyond Diet
00:17:08
Speaker
And when you're vegan, they hear like, oh, steamed veggies and salads. you know the They are going to sweat. And no, yeah when you're v when you're vegan, you don't eat animal products, but you can have cakes, you can have cheese, you can have fries, you can have and have a lot of things. The only thing that you
00:17:27
Speaker
are trying to live your life without hurting others. So when I was on the treatment, actually, I was vegetarian, but for example, I did not buy any cosmetics that were tested to the animals. I did not buy any leather shoes. I did not. I mean, I was already doing all that, but I was not allowed to not eat milk or eggs.
00:17:47
Speaker
Well, gosh, I mean, I mean, first of all, thank you fit for for putting yourself in a vulnerable position and and and sharing that with us. I mean, hearing stories like this can can be so empowering, but like it it takes a lot from from you to share that. So so thank you. that I mean, I can't imagine how difficult that must be having a like a personal health challenge at the time of a significant one and also And it isn't and. It's not it's not a but. The way you're describing it is that they're not linked. They're just two things that are happening at the same time. and As well as that that significant health challenge, there is your feelings around a social justice issue. that That's what it is. That's how you're describing it, isn't it? It's it's not about restricting saturated fat or cholesterol or or anything like that.
00:18:43
Speaker
but But having having people in in positions of, I don't know, we we could say authority or depending on how you view health professionals or, you know, older people in society, like it's hard when sort of older, more senior, quite more wise people are are saying something, and and actually it's coming from a position of care, isn't it? It sounds like, you know, people people are saying these things to you because they're caring about your well-being, but it's, I mean, what I've heard could contradict me if ah if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it as well-meaning as it was in your instance, and we are only talking about you, like it was unhelpful, it was, you said the word cluttering, didn't you? Yeah, actually, I mean, I know eating disorders are like very different from people to people for a person to person. But the thing is, health professionals sometimes they don't know that much about everything. I mean, they might know a lot of some things. But for example, if you ask them about veganism, maybe are the kind of people that Oh, I have a vegan for dinner, what I'm gonna cook them because they don't even know
00:19:56
Speaker
what they eat or what they don't or how they live or how they view life so for some reason they are like entitled and sorry if I'm not using the word correctly to to give advice to someone who has a lot of mental clutter because as I said like you are like struggling to to do see the world how it actually is They are telling you, no, no, no, no, what you are going to do, which is part of your personality, is actually the the illness. And then you start having doubts about yourself like, oh, okay, so maybe who I am? Because, for example, in my case, again, this is just personal, but in my case, during those years, I remember like feeling trapped inside another person.
00:20:42
Speaker
because it was like the sick part of myself and then it was myself trapped inside. So myself, I was vegan. I wanted to to stop contributing to animal abuse.
00:20:54
Speaker
but that they they i me the the sickness, it was saying, no, no, no, you you want to restrict. It doesn't matter if it's vegan or not. You don't want to eat. Actually, one of the things I was more scared about it was bread, which is vegan. So it didn't make that much sense. And and and and the the good thing about that is now when I think about that, like I was scared about bread, really, which is, I mean, it's lovely. it's it has not hurt anybody so yeah if somebody is listening to this and is also a bit scared about redfish go and eat something made of wheat please do it for me but for the animals but yeah in in in my case when you are what i also wanted to to say and that's why i wanted to share this part of my my vegan journey it's because
00:21:47
Speaker
If someone, it doesn't matter, first of all, if it's a health professional, please, if someone in front of you is saying to you, like, I'm vegan, or any other thing that you really don't know that much about, please do some research before giving advice to that person.
Recovery and Ethical Alignment
00:22:04
Speaker
Because I'm pretty sure in my case, for example, they didn't, I had some bone health issues related to my illness. And for the first thing they told me is like, oh, you need calcium, so you need to eat milk. And I was like,
00:22:17
Speaker
But I don't want to eat drink milk. I've never done that. I don't like it. I'm not going to eat yogurt because at that point I was still not... I don't call myself vegan at that time but i I did not want to eat any dairy or or animal product. I didn't want to buy them. And I said to them, where I can get calcium if it's not cow's milk? And they didn't knew.
00:22:40
Speaker
They didn't know what tahini was, they didn't know. So the thing is, if you are not an expert, which can happen because nobody knows everything, please, before giving some advice, do some research. like Maybe they should have, say, okay, maybe she wants to be vegan. Maybe, okay, prove that you can be vegan and still recover. I mean, they they could try that. They did not want to, so I had to prove it. So one of my motivations to to to recover as well just to be a vegan out of the closet, if I can say that. yeah So it was also a motivation to veganism in my in my recovery. like I did not want to eat any animal products at home and when I when i say like
00:23:27
Speaker
out loud that I'm vegan two years ago. It was when I felt like I was fully recovered. So yeah, it was a motivation as well. So not only it was not trying to hide my eating in this disorder, it was also, it it was actually helping me. Like I can ah can be vegan, I can be recovered and I don't need to eat animal products in order to be healthy because yeah you don't have to.
00:23:49
Speaker
Wow. Wow. Goodness me. You've got me gripped. You've got me gripped. You've got to you've got to you've got to tell us the next step of the story then. So if we can go from we can go from a ah a state where you've you've got people, well-meaning people, but who are saying that they think that your wish to be vegan is is linked to restrictive eating,
00:24:14
Speaker
Now you're sat here as a vegan and you've described in the recent years being able to say, yes, I am vegan. How did that progression happen? As I said, like the when I knew I wanted to be vegan, and actually this is something that I spoke with my sister when I was in my 20s, my early 20s. The first time I remember knowing what veganism was, I remember saying to my sister, I know one day I'm going to be vegan. And she was like, I know you will. Because because I'm the kind of, I mean, when I know something, I cannot stop. For example, it's not,
00:24:50
Speaker
For me, part of, I mean, I'm not sure if we'll be on the definition of being vegan, but for example, for me, I try to stay away from fast fashion because I don't want to contribute to exploiting people. And that, in my in my mind, is is also related to veganism because it's like you don't want to contribute to other people or other living beings being exploited.
00:25:14
Speaker
And yeah, so once and on my 25, 26, I started like stop buying anything with animal produce, like being vegan at home. But because of what I just told, I had to eat like sometimes if you are going to a relative house or you are not going to say you're vegan, they will give you something vegetarian. But when I was maybe 28, 29, I stopped buying and maybe twice or three times a year, I would have something with animal products in it, but not that much. And when I say it out loud, I'm going vegan, finally, happily. i Now I feel liberated, actually. like I don't need to hide myself. like i As I said, like um I'm out of the closet, finally. i don't need to I don't feel like I need to to have something with x in it to prove people that i'm not sick or what i'm or that i'm doing well like now i i eat way better that i've done in my in my entire life because as i said like veganism was a motivation in my recovery so i had to prove everyone that it can be healthy i can gain weight
00:26:26
Speaker
So yeah, I'm eating super healthy now. I feel good, not only on the outside. like but I mean, I don't look perfectly, but but if but but i mean i'm feeling I have health. But on the inside, as say like I said, I feel not only good with myself because I know I'm doing the right thing. Also, I feel i feel i feel free. like like I can be myself. I don't want to contribute to just suffering the world why do i have to just do others think that i'm normal okay then i prefer to be weird i prefer to be the only one in the only vegan in my in my surroundings if that i mean i would love everyone to go vegan but if they don't want to i'm not going to oblige them
00:27:10
Speaker
Not because I don't know how to, because I will if I could. But yeah, i feel I feel good with myself. I know when I see animal products in other people's plates, I see an animal. I don't see a product. When I read wrote those pages in my sister book, like they were talking about animals like products. They are not products. They are not materials. They are not things that can be optimized or improved.
00:27:40
Speaker
they are sentient beings and i I feel happy that I'm not contributing at least I'm trying not to as much as possible to their suffering so I feel great actually. Yeah that's that's fantastic that's fantastic and I i love that parallel of of of you and your sister studying two very different things and and but having the animals described in that industrious way, that that would stick with me for sure. When when you um described your transition to becoming vegetarian, you said you remembered, well, it it was that exact point, reading reading the books, was there a similar exact point where you were like, right, this this is it, now I now i say I'm
00:28:23
Speaker
vegan or was it just like a gradual thing? It sounds like there was a long time where you were effectively, by a lot of people's definitions, you were you were basically already vegan, like ah ah a handful of times a year where you're not, I don't know, I think most people would say that was vegan, but its in your mind anyway, was there a a defining point?
00:28:43
Speaker
no actually it was not even though for vegan for vegetarianism it was like i remember it was even in the afternoon so i don't know the exact hour but i know it and i mean i don't remember the date but i remember the exact point the exact time but no veganism was like built up over the times over the years and the the thing is because i have the the issue is it with the eating disorder and people not trying for me not to go vegan, which is funny because it's like when you say that you are going vegan, I'm pretty sure you don't need to have a meat and disorder that that everyone around you is like, oh, we're losing them. I mean, you cannot go vegan. and do the I mean, I think in in one now that I'm thinking more about that, like,
00:29:27
Speaker
I think now that everyone is saying like veganism is a way to heighten eating disorder is another excuse for trying to make people not go vegan for some reason. It's like if if you say like like I told you like I don't want to buy anything from fast fashion. Oh, great. That's good. What you're doing. I don't want to buy any cosmetics tested on animals. Oh, great. And also I don't want to eat them.
00:29:49
Speaker
then everyone wants to go crazy. So they they want as many excuses as possible to try to make people not go vegan for some reason. And I think the the the eating disorders, unfortunately, they are becoming one of them, which is a shame because it's also not helping they the people with the eating disorder. I mean, it has nothing to do. If you're going vegan because of your ethics, because of your moral, what has to do with calories or grams or foods or fullness. I mean, there are two different things.
Education and Misconceptions
00:30:23
Speaker
Veganism has and an important part of your diet, of course, because you eat three times or five times a day, but it goes way beyond that. A way of eating is a way of eating. and Maybe you prefer to eat fried or steamed. That has nothing to do with your morals. So so that everyone even
00:30:42
Speaker
If not vegan people, they need to to start understanding that. One thing is a diet and then another thing is a diet because of a moral preference or a moral way of being. I mean, it strikes me that actually if if somebody was genuinely concerned about somebody with regards to an eating disorder, then actually making a throwaway comment when someone says, oh, I want to be vegan,
00:31:09
Speaker
just saying it in a sort of offhand, dismissive way. Oh, you're only saying that because you you know you want to restrict calories or you' you've got an eating disorder. that' That's not helpful at all for somebody with an eating disorder. Is it like it it needs more gravitas and more understanding and more sympathy and more listening?
00:31:30
Speaker
not not just like a throwaway judgment and um you know I'm not saying that that's what anyone has done in in your case but I've i mean i've seen it on the the dreadful news outlet that we have in this country, GB News, i've I've seen presenters refer to veganism as an eating disorder in a really dismissive way and I just kind of think even if you think that you need to approach that subject with sensitivity and tact and and understanding otherwise you're just making it worse.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, and actually it's not bad because of, I mean, they they're trying to insult veganism, but actually what then what ah what they are harming is people with an eating disorder. Because when you have an eating disorder, them I'm telling you, your mind, once you realize you have an eating disorder, which is the first point to reach, once you realize that your mind is full of clutter,
00:32:23
Speaker
you You don't know who to listen to. You don't know who you truly are. You don't know if you're your thoughts are truly yours. And when people are say, no, no, no, no, veganism is an eating disorder. What? and I mean, it it it only helps to start or keep building that clutter, which is not helpful to the to the people with that they are sick. So, if you want to go vegan and you don't have an eating disorder and you're perfectly fine, you're gonna go vegan. It doesn't matter what the the TV presenter says or whoever says. I mean, in my case, the
00:32:56
Speaker
the health professionals, I think what they told me that just out of their ignorance about veganism. Because I remember when they were when they were trying to make me drink milk, one of the nurses that she she just told me, you know what, imagine that you are your child needs some blood transfusion, but you are a Mormon.
00:33:20
Speaker
and you are not allowed to to give them the blood. Would you listen to the Mormons community or would you give your child the blood? And I remember my just just making the comparison just for me to drink milk. And I remember my my answer was straight away like,
00:33:38
Speaker
Do you know that you are taking the blood from someone who didn't gave it to you? she was She was just thinking about nutrients or products again, but she was not thinking about where the milk came from. It's like, I needed calcium, not milk. So I got it from another source, but the problem is that they were they did not knew or they did not have that connection between that the thing and the living being that that thing came from.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, and and and so much of this, like you say, does come down to education and and and people's knowledge and and very often it's it's not people's fault if they if they don't know things. I mean, sometimes people can bury their head in the sand and and choose not to listen.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah. but But actually it's it's not necessarily a medical professional's fault or a family member's fault if they don't yet know things. And it's why all issues um you know need more education. But if we're just looking from a a vegan lens and a plant-based nutrition lens, it's why it's so great. I mean, like I don't know whether you have similar organizations in Spain, but we have plant-based health professionals in the yeah UK as as an organization. They do a ah great podcast and and part of that is, well, not just part of it. I think pretty much the whole of it is to is to help educate people so that people who want to help can help and are not
00:35:06
Speaker
and not just needlessly saying here have this it class one carcinogen that's that's what you need for your nutrition it's like no no no no no no that's a terrible idea like if someone needs like you say if someone needs protein they need protein they don't need sausage or bacon or or even chickpeas you know if if we want to be completely neutral like what they need is protein and then you can talk about different ways can't you i have ah I have a question in terms of what fuels and sustains your life as a vegan now. I'm hearing like lots of determination and like your your morals and your yeah kind of ethical standpoint. i'm I'm imagining that's a big, if not the biggest part of what helps keep you going as a vegan because it's it's hard, isn't it? You know, it it can be a hard thing in a
00:35:57
Speaker
non-vegan world to be vegan, apart from that sheer bloody-minded determination that you clearly have. It's fantastic and it's admirable. well What else helps you sort of day-to-day, week-to-week, just being an everyday vegan?
00:36:13
Speaker
In my case, the thing is, when I see an animal product, I see an animal. I don't see, I mean, just forget the the word product when it comes to to animals. I mean, yeah people, they might see like, I don't know, of any sort of steak or sausage. I see like just a dead animal. And the fact that people, they can put it in their kitchens, in their fridge and then in their mouths. It's not only sad because all that involves it's also kind of disgusting for me so for me it's just remembering that whatever you you see or maybe you you crave it's it was an animal and it's living and you don't need to hurt anybody to to feel yourself to be happy I mean for me it's like if you can live your your life if you can go to bed without hurting others why do so
00:37:08
Speaker
Yeah, it really is as simple as that, isn't it? Yeah. No, I like that. I like that. Can I ask the the people in your life, whether it's family, friends, co-workers, things like that, how are they responding to being vegan?
Social Perceptions
00:37:21
Speaker
Because we all, you know, we all have ah those who are on side with it. Maybe some will follow in in our footsteps. And then there are those that just don't and will maybe have make a pointed remark here or there. What's ah what's your balance like at the moment?
00:37:37
Speaker
Well, yeah at work that's never been easy. Actually, when when i start when I start a job or when someone new comes to my to my workplace, I always wait a bit ti i till I tell them that I'm vegan like for example last time a a new guy started in my office and i I told him that I was vegan like when he was already two months at the office because I want to i want them to see me like a person first and then they can put the vegan label on it because unfortunately there's a ton of prejudice
00:38:13
Speaker
on vegans so oh no she oh she's weird because of she's vegan or she's she is she dressed in black because she's vegan or whatever they they think i mean people people they don't know about veganism they don't want to look what what is because in the back of their minds they know they should go vegan as well so they they don't want to to do some research so i prefer them to to know me first and then wait for that uncomfortable silence when i tell them that i'm vegan And yeah, but no, when when i when I say that I'm vegan, they just know, awkwardway she's the white one. She doesn't eat animals. And whenever, when people bring things from their birthdays or for Christmas, she's not gonna eat anything. and And that's it. With my family, I mean, they know it they know it can quite black or white. So they knew I was gonna be vegan. and
00:39:12
Speaker
when it comes to Christmas. For example, when when we all sit together for for lunch or any Sunday meal, I always try to cook because I know my mom doesn't like to cook. So I always like, I'm going to cook. So I take my chat. I'm not a big cooker during the weekdays, I have to say. it But whenever there's a chance to make people eat vegan, I make my best so they they can have a great lunch without with that animal products. So yeah, around me, all the people, they
00:39:44
Speaker
they yeah I think they just see me like the white one, like she she she's a vegan, but they they think it's not something that is has nothing to do with them. I mean i think most of the people, the unfortunately, when they know a vegan,
00:39:59
Speaker
They think, oh, they might think it's good, they might think it's bad, but they don't think it has nothing to do with them, unfortunately. And it's great that every day there's more vegan oceans in the restaurants, there's more vegan podcasts to spread the word, to to let the the world know what what veganism actually is. And they everyone can go vegan, everyone should go vegan, actually.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah, i was i was goingnna you you mentioned um in terms of like there being ah more food options and and things like that. Are you still living in a rural environment or like more of a an urban town city?
Advice for New Vegans
00:40:40
Speaker
No, actually once I moved back to Spain I started living in cities.
00:40:46
Speaker
But if you go from some parts in Spain, for example, now I'm living in Valencia, which is great because it's a big city and you have plenty of vegan restaurants. But for example, if you go to another city like for the one I'm from, which is more in the north, it's not that easy. but It's slowly getting easier. Or at least if you say to the waiter or waitress, like, can you make me something without animal products? They they they know what do you mean. Like when I remember when I first became vegetarian, when you say without animal products, oh, with fish. and No, no, no, no, she's an but no. But it's it's it's becoming easier. But yeah, I'm living in cities in the past.
00:41:28
Speaker
ten years I've been living in cities and yeah it's easier but even even in even in rural areas for example in my village they know I'm vegan one of the good things about going out of the closet I said to everyone that I was vegan and you know now even in the only shop that is in my village they sell soy milk. hey I made my mom to to the to the soy milk team so yeah great. ya yeah More seeds germinating. that's yeah That's great. That's great. To finish off with, Elena, what advice would you give to somebody who's starting their vegan journey now at the start of 2025 or is considering it? I mean, you've already given ah a whole load of nuggets that they can take away with them, but if you were you were just with them for 30 seconds, what what would you say?
00:42:18
Speaker
Well, be kind to yourself. Do not punish yourself too much if you made a mistake or you eat any animal products by mistake. And also just remember why you are doing it. Always remember that you are not doing it for yourself. You are doing it for others that they have no choice. So remember that they have no voice, so you'll have to be theirs.
00:42:42
Speaker
wise words, wise words to add to all the other wise words you you've given us. Thank you again for ah sharing obviously you your whole story but also with those those specifics, with with regards to those those challenges with with your health. I know there's a lot of people who will will take a lot from that and I i guess it's it's fair to say, you know, we we've been listening to your story and everybody's story is different and, you know, i I've known people who've had a disordered eating and have chosen to start consuming animal products again and you know I don't know anybody who would
00:43:20
Speaker
who would criticize them for doing so and I don't think that's what you've been saying it's just just knowing that actually it is possible and that that recovery is possible isn't it in in a vegan way and thankfully there's more and more educated people who can who can help with that is there anything else that you wanted to say on that because I I'm wary that I've just put my words on that but it might be might be better to hear that message from you Elena to to all the people that they went back to eat animal products because of an eating in disorder well the the good thing about life is not linear so they can always go to veganism again so I mean once you go out of the
00:44:01
Speaker
vegan path don't worry we will welcome you again and more than welcome so yeah and to anyone who's struggling with an eating disorder just remember to to be kind so not only to yourself to to others as well so to contribute to the kindness in the world not to the suffering so stop suffering yourself and stop making others suffer which is the good thing brilliant Elena thank you so very much for your time thank you and
00:44:36
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:45:17
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic, there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from