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145- Czech your plant-based protein cylinders...they might actually be vegan sausages after all!
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Nine stories from the last seven days of veganism and animal rights for Julie, Kate & Ant to dissect this week including the names of Czech sausages, mountains with legal personhood & anmal agriculture's latest attempt to become even more depraved, as it stoops to new lows with its feed in the UK.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/law-and-politics/czech-meat-terms-ban/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/brits-have-worrying-lack-of-understanding-on-red-meat-nutritional-value_66058.html
https://www.league.org.uk/news-and-resources/news/new-polling-shows-71-per-cent-think-cruel-snares-should-be-illegal-in-england/
https://blabbermouth.net/news/arch-enemys-alissa-white-gluz-on-touring-the-world-on-a-vegan-diet-it-is-totally-possible
https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/french-city-first-to-sign-european-animal-protection-decree-what-does-it-say/704071
https://www.farminguk.com/news/drone-footage-shows-suspected-hare-coursers-on-farmland_66036.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/30/taranaki-mounga-new-zealands-second-highest-mountain-granted-same-legal-rights-as-a-person
https://www.farminguk.com/news/defra-mulls-reintroducing-processed-animal-protein-into-livestock-feed_66064.html
https://www.farminguk.com/news/study-calls-for-levying-full-rates-of-vat-on-meat-and-dairy_66061.html
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Kate & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan News Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, welcome to your one stop shop for this week's vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode RK and Julie, but that is enough of the falafel, it is time for vegan
00:00:29
Speaker
they call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor Woe is me. Hang on a minute. You always pick the food.
00:00:48
Speaker
As long as you don't get the wee brilliant with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:56
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello dearest listeners, I'm Kate and just want to welcome you to our lovely show. Thank you so much for being here. Hello everybody, Julie here. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on in the news this week.
00:01:23
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
Czech Government's Decision on Plant-Based Food Labels
00:01:35
Speaker
Okay we are starting off this week's episode with a tale as old as time it seems. We are repeating the news but from different countries because this week the Czech government from Czechia in the middle of Europe they have ditched plans to ban plant-based foods from being labeled with neat terms such as sausage and schnitzel. Sounds like old news we've heard all this before but in Czechia they're catching up their government said An amendment they were preparing in 2024 to restrict plant-based food labeling would protect consumers from confusion. Oh, everyone's so confused, aren't they? However, it's not happening now. It's not happening. Czech producers would have had to rebrand. They would have been at a disadvantage in the wider European plant-based market.
00:02:23
Speaker
But this amendment basically means they can compete with everyone. Now, there was some backlash from campaigners and businesses. Pro-veg Czechia commissioned a survey that showed that a majority of people were in favor of using meat terms on plant-based foods. Okay, it's common sense. It's winning out. We're allowed to call things sausages.
00:02:44
Speaker
Hooray! Hooray! But we're so confused, aren't we? We're just so confused. I know, it's ah it's amazing. I did actually have a look at the study and it's very pretty but I didn't understand the word because it was in fact all in Czech.
00:02:59
Speaker
but thank you to plant-based news who've explained it all in their brilliant terms. Thank goodness, you know, common sense and has has prevailed both seen through industry basically, the livestock industry, oh you know, trying to stop plant-based alternatives, you know, taking over or just taking a big share of the market. They're frightened, they're losing their profits,
00:03:27
Speaker
I mean that's there's a lovely quote, I trust producers to label their products fairly so that every customer knows exactly what they're buying. Conversely, customers are competent and know what they're purchasing. I really don't have the ambition to educate people. We hope that future regulations will prioritise the genuine needs of consumers over the narrow interests of specific sectors of the food industry. Hooray! Say it like it is. Amazing, amazing. Something that I think I've not seen in any other story like this until this one has been the point that actually if you're not going to label your products in the same way as other countries,
00:04:11
Speaker
are now doing, then you're at a disadvantage for export. And um that's that's something that is going to just be increasingly an argument, isn't it? if you If you're the only country now where you're saying, oh, no, no, no, you can't use the word sausage. Well, you're not going to be able to sell your stuff anywhere other than in your country. So, were yeah, the tide is turning. Hooray for that.
00:04:33
Speaker
It is. And ah that that is going to leave people at a massive disadvantage and plus all the new like fermented foods and things like that, all the countries that are kind of stamping down on that, they're suddenly going to see all these other countries taken off, aren't they? And they're going to lose a massive slice of the market. So maybe they'll think again
Vegan Musician Alyssa White Glutz's Advocacy
00:04:54
Speaker
as well.
00:04:54
Speaker
and indeed got to stay relevant got to stay relevant and we at enough of the falafel are desperately trying to stay relevant we are bringing this next story from blabbermouth dot.net which features all sorts of hidden happening music news including an interview with Arch Enemy's Alyssa White Glutz. I probably pronounced that wrong. I'm afraid I didn't know who they were. However, they're in last month's Metal Hall of Fame in Anaheim in California because Alyssa
00:05:26
Speaker
is vegan straight edge and has been for 25 years and she has released this brilliant bit of press saying how actually you can be vegan of course you can be vegan and in fact she's been touring the world for the last 20 years playing her brilliant music and she's managed it so anyone can do it she says i've done it all across the world with language barriers cultural barriers lack of time or money and transportation and i'm still able to do it so i have to say it is totally possible in the interview which we'll we'll put a link in the show notes for. She talks about the connection between the punk mentality um and veganism and animal rights and she talks about how she's been a passionate advocate for animal rights, um been vegetarian since birth, vegan since the 90s
00:06:14
Speaker
and kind of like Moby describes herself as an activist first, musician second. Quite a nice feel-good story, this one, Julie, I thought. I mean, I'm completely ignorant as to as to her music, but she she talks the talk. Oh, yes, indeed she does. And she walks the walk and she looks amazing on it. Not only is she managing to stay vegan, doing all this world touring, but she is staying as fit looking as anything. So the type of music that arch enemy play, I hadn't heard of them either but I looked them up so that I could see what she does and what her band do and all the rest of it. So in terms of genre, they are melodic death metal. So think kind of death metal type vocals but melodic, just the guitars are a little bit
00:07:05
Speaker
you know, it kind of, yeah, more melodic and the song structures are a wee bit more recognisable because, you know, metal as a music genre is hugely complex. I think the only thing that comes close to it in complexity would be classical music. So it is a real acquired taste. You need very educated ears to really appreciate it. But yeah, so she's at the melodic. It's quite accessible, her stuff.
00:07:32
Speaker
It's really, really high energy. I challenge anybody to watch a video and listen to one of their tracks and not notice their own heartbeat has gone really fast.
Critique of Misleading Meat Promotion Survey
00:07:46
Speaker
But good on her because she is outspoken about animal rights.
00:07:51
Speaker
it If you go on her Facebook page it's not the first thing she talks about sadly but there are here and there little references to veganism and some animal rights posts on there and she is I think just an amazing role model and I think there are lots of potentials for synod synergy between all metal music and animal rights and you know protesting against animal exploitation. It's the exact right music genre for that and it's the exact right people who are involved in that music, I think, in terms of just their skill
00:08:32
Speaker
and their intelligence, you know, in order to produce the very complex music that they do, but also just the vibe of it is perfect for, I think, getting angry about, um you know, animals needing our voice and things. So, yeah, I think it's great. Good on now.
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, amen to that. Well, I'm pledging to educate myself on Arch Enemy's work over the next week. It sounds good to me. Listen to them while you're running and I swear your pedans will be locked. As Dr. Greger says, we'll put it to the test. Talking about educating ourselves, Farming UK are reporting that the Meat Promotion Wales organization, which confusingly the acronym is HCC, that's because it's in Welsh,
00:09:20
Speaker
they're worried that we as British people, British consumers, we've got a worrying lack of understanding regarding the nutritional value of eating meat and their press release has made it into farming you can. We're going to share it with you because obviously it's very important that everybody remains educated on these things so let's let's hear about this new survey see put your detective hat on see if you can spot the holes in this research okay so just under half of consumers said they're not getting enough protein in their diet two in five unsure they consume enough of it okay
00:09:54
Speaker
I would agree that is concerning if you don't think you get enough protein. I mean I'm sure you are but okay fine. 60% of consumers are aware that red meat is a good source of protein but only half of them are eating red meat twice or less a week.
00:10:11
Speaker
There are the sources of protein, aren't there? I mean, that the then those two things aren't necessarily linked. But anyway, let's carry on. The government guidelines recommend people should eat at most 70 grams of protein a day. Yeah, that's fine. It doesn't matter how much red meat we're eating though. It's protein, remember, protein. I don't know about UK. I think the yeah meat promotion whales might be the people that need some education here.
00:10:41
Speaker
Well, do you know what? It's laughable, really, isn't it? But it is true. They have got a point. Most people don't know just how bad meat is for you. Yeah, yeah. And they still keep eating it. Yeah. um, yeah, R.D., you've got to feel sorry for them. though They can obviously see their profits.
00:11:05
Speaker
profit margins dipping but anyway they are a PR company for meat are they not and they're working with another PR company called Atomic Research and you know so they need two PR companies to put a spin on on red meat but yeah it's so annoying you know kind of making out protein. you The only place you can get it is from me. It's just ridiculous, isn't it? and Basically, it's just a load of rubbish designed to confuse and mislead and then amongst a whole load of other things in there. It's just
00:11:43
Speaker
it's a bit rich I think to to call it, sort of you know, oh there's a worrying lack of understanding because actually I think i think anybody with any kind of critical intelligence will look at this and realise that they have put two facts adjacent to one another that are not linked the the only way that this press release is going to change opinions is actually going to be for for the poor people who actually aren't that educated and haven't got really a critical way of thinking because they're saying well you do realize we need to eat protein
00:12:19
Speaker
But you're not eating much red meat. No, no, no, no. Those things aren't related. Those things are not related. And it's it's a real bloody cheek, I think, to to put them next to one another under the headline of, people just don't understand. They don't understand about protein. It's like, well, you're not helping.
00:12:37
Speaker
you're not helping at all. you're You're muddying the waters further, for goodness sake. I'm i'm pretty sure we've we featured their work before Meet Promotion Wales, haven't we? I think it was at your pick of the week one week. Yeah, was they were they were going into schools in Wales and and doing fun fun sports and games and then cooking them up a nice big pile of minced up cow and yeah yeah awful anyway let's real sinister bunch of so-ands so-and-so's if you ask me yeah okay come on fellow vegans let's just get out there and show them our muscles and show them we're still alive on a diet of grass and twigs with a bit of cardboard you know honestly it just makes you laugh doesn't it really
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, let's let's cheer things up a bit because that there might be a ah meat globby in Wales that's putting out spurious press
Strasbourg's Animal Rights Decree
00:13:33
Speaker
links. However,
00:13:34
Speaker
There is a French city, Strasbourg, which is the first, apparently, to sign the European Animal Protection Decree. Let's hear some more about it. So, Strasbourg, for those that don't know, it's in Eastern France. It's become the first in the country to sign a new European declaration to protect animal rights. It signed the European Declaration of Animal Rights on Wednesday, January the 19th, so what's in this declaration? Well it's divided into bands, preservation, legal status and education, it's sounding sexy and exciting already isn't it? But in all seriousness what can it do for animals? So for example it says no animal may be subjected or exposed to an act of cruelty
00:14:20
Speaker
already starting to see the problems with this already anyway let's carry on the legal protection of animals must not be repressive and administrative but civil and constitutional now there's there's more in in the link that we'll put in the show notes so if you want to read the the whole article there but before we go any further i mean julie it's it's one of those where it sounds great doesn't it but unless the city of Strasbourg has banned meat and dairy and eggs and circuses and and things like that, i'm I'm not sure that this really stacks up because any of those things are acts of cruelty, surely. Of course they are, of course they are.
00:15:05
Speaker
So I looked at the document itself. um I didn't do French past higher grade at school. And ah school was a long time ago for me, so I couldn't understand a lot of it. It's quite a short document. It was too big. I put it into Google Translate, but it was too big. It said the document was too long. So that kind of scuppered any reading of the actual thing. And my online search just didn't throw up very much at all apart from lots of different pieces of legislation to do with animal welfare. And that's legal stuff. This thing that we're talking about, this document doesn't have any legal standing whatsoever, but the animal welfare stuff that I saw online is actual legislation. And even with a ton of that in place in many different countries,
00:15:58
Speaker
the abuse and slaughter of animals is carrying on relentlessly. So, you know, even legislation isn't stopping things. In theory though, it's a wonderful thing that this is happening. It's a a mindset shift and this other kind of hopeful effect about uniting animal rights organizations that can sometimes be in competition with each other. That sounds like a good idea. I'm very pleased to hear that Spain are joining in with us and that a translation is in progress at the moment. Hopefully they're not trying to use Google Translate in Spain. So I just want to say shout out to France.
00:16:43
Speaker
really for making a start like this. It's a very brave move and a bold one and it's shifting the conversation from one of animal welfare to animal rights which is exactly what we want. They am already passed some really interesting legislation in 2021 that was regarding animal welfare, but it was really quite far-reaching and detailed and brave as well. So I just, yeah, well done, France. Absolutely. Anybody who's listening from France, hello.
00:17:18
Speaker
You're doing amazing. And the thing is, it's activists there are making this happen, you know, and they might not always think you're making a difference when you write to your counsellor about things or vote in a particular way or whatever, but it just shows you. So, well done, France.
00:17:36
Speaker
Keep it up, keep it up France. Right, we gave Kate a bit of a duff survey in the last study. lets Let's give one that we can maybe have a bit more credibility behind it. This comes to us from the League Against Cruel Sports.
Public Support for Banning Cruel Snares
00:17:50
Speaker
They say that new polling shows 71% of people think that cruel snares should be illegal in England. I think we would probably agree, wouldn't we? So,
00:18:02
Speaker
These cruel traps, they're already outlawed in Scotland and Wales. They do you still happen, however, but got to get the law in place first. Campaigners are urging the government to deliver on its promise to make these cruel traps illegal in England too. So they've commissioned this polling. National Animal Welfare Charity, the League Against Cruel Sports sent this to YouGov and 71% of people who live in England who were asked believe that the use of SNES should be made illegal. The number rose to 80% amongst people living in rural areas, which suggests that people in cities are more tolerant of them. Don't quite understand that bit. But anyway, it had the backing of people who voted across the political spectrum so we we might stereotypically think that Tories, those voting conservative, might be
00:18:53
Speaker
you know more favorable, well actually still 67% of people who voted conservative in the last government said that the Snares um were a bad idea and should be outlawed too.
00:19:05
Speaker
The acting chief executive of the league against cruel sports, Chris Luffingham said this polling highlights the revulsion felt by so many people at the pain and suffering that these cruel devices cause. We look forward to seeing Snares consigned to the history books. This is promising, kate isn't it? And there's there's been an early day motion tabled by the MP Ruth Jones this week. to to to ban the cell possession of of snares. So there's, I think there could be some movement on this.
00:19:38
Speaker
Let's hope so. Julie's actually the expert in this field, unfortunately, for her. And me being a ah proper townie has been totally ignorant. I thought they were banned in the last century or something. I didn't realise we had such horrendously cruel contraptions that were legal lying
Discussion on Snares' Cruelty and Legislative Needs
00:20:00
Speaker
around the countryside.
00:20:02
Speaker
but Apparently about 200,000 of them, which just is just appalling. And and that came from Defra, didn't it? like Yes. that that That's not an animal charity that's doing that. Defra was saying, yeah, there's 200,000 of these things out there. And and I don't know if for either of you have had the the delightful... um i there Oh gosh, what's the word?
00:20:27
Speaker
experience of reading best practice on how to use a snare. You know, it's just enough to make you feel ill. It's just horrible. And I don't know about YouTube, but I'm surprised that it's only 71% of people that think they're cruel. All I can think is that perhaps ah one of the reasons that, ah you know, townspeople are even a polling at a lower rate is perhaps because they, like me, have been ignorant about them and perhaps people in the countryside, they come across them more and come across the poor creatures that are, you know, ensnared in them. So apparently in 2023 there was a parliamentary debate which was triggered by more than 100,000
00:21:18
Speaker
people signing a petition so go days government petitions, you know, when you when somebody when you see one, or it is worth signing it. It is worth trying because, you know, it looks like it's now supported, the banning of them is supported by the majority of MPs, like you say, across all parties in government. So cross fingers, it is going to be banned. I mean, on the whole, it's the shooting industry, isn't it, that um uses them.
00:21:50
Speaker
to trap anything, any possible predators. are Shooting and farming. Sometimes it's just farmers as well. Put them out for rabbits. Have you read Watership Down? I have, years and years ago. You remember Bigwig getting caught in the sneer. I read that as a child, that's the first time I knew what a sneer was when I read that book.
00:22:12
Speaker
And that was one of the things that turned me into the trap-tripper I am now. Because the the account of him getting caught in that snare really brings it home how hideous they are. Yeah. I remember reading that as well. I was probably about 13 and I remember crying and crying. Yeah. We should do a book review. We should, actually. I haven't read it since I was about 13 or so. Neither have I, but I never forgot the snare scene. No, no. There's so many awful scenes in there, isn't there? but Yeah, they they are indiscriminate. I mean, it doesn't really matter what the species is, but they catch any creature, including people's cats and dogs. And maybe perhaps people living in the countryside, they have experience or, you know, people they may know who've lost pets. I don't know. Perhaps that's why there there are a few more people in the countryside who are against them. I don't know. I've never had their own leg caught in one.
00:23:09
Speaker
I know some folk that's happened too as well. They're against snares once they've been caught by the ankle by one. Gosh, that's the selfie on on Instagram and Facebook, isn't it, you know? They'll be out there somewhere, yeah. I mean, for what it's worth. i You know, if you just look at the data, the Welsh government banned them in 2023. In Scotland, it's 2024. For that reason alone, I just think this year it will it will happen in this country, won't it? But as we know, banning it is only one thing, but stopping the practice is another. Hair coursing is something that is not allowed.
00:23:48
Speaker
However, people still do it, but we'll bring you a nice good news story to finish. Some people have been caught doing it. Police have released drone footage of several men who did significant damage to farmland following suspected hair-causing activity in Hertfordshire.
00:24:05
Speaker
and police were called, this was on the 25th of January, to reports of several people in vehicles trespassing on private land and on arrival Hertfordshire Police's rural operations support team officers captured the evidence. They were led to pursuit involving the forces roads policing unit and lots of pictures have been released of this stuff. I don't think they've caught the people yet but their their vehicles and things are are out there and ready to be ready to be caught last year for example four men were ordered to pay out nearly 20 000 pounds after they destroyed a farmer's field while being equipped to go hair coursing in Lincolnshire so would you reckon Julie they're going to get caught they're going to be brought to justice can we celebrate
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. And if you do a bit of a Google of hair coursing in general, you'll have lots of news stories popping up all over the country um of people getting caught, getting fined, getting into terrible bother, getting a police record, even getting jailed for it. So here we are. Again, it's just an example of I haven't ever seen a woman involved in this.
00:25:19
Speaker
So I'm going to be a bit sexist here and just say it is as far as I've ever seen men getting involved in an activity that they know is illegal, that they know could have dreadful consequences for them, that they're bound to know deep down is a bit sick and extremely cruel.
00:25:39
Speaker
And yet, they are hell-bent on carrying this out. And you just wonder what kind of people they are. They are people with resources. They have off-road vehicles that can cope with these rural locations that they carry this out. They have dogs of a particular breed that probably cost a lot of money. They have night vision equipment because they do this early morning and at night when the hares are most active.
00:26:08
Speaker
they are And they have the good health to be walking about at these times, you know, fit and well. These are gifts that these people have. These people have resources. They obviously have money and good health. And what are they doing with it? They are absolutely beyond reason. And all it is, is they are trying to prove and to bet on the fact that their dog is quicker at chasing a hare and killing it than their pal's dog. That's all. That's what this is about. And just even say that is the case. Well, good for you. Your dog at this moment in time is faster and you've won a wee bit of money. You've obviously got money already. You've got all this stuff already. So what?
00:26:59
Speaker
ah Really, honestly, I just think if you know, if you see anything that might be here coursing going on in the countryside or if you definitely witness it or whatever, what is that police number 101 in the UK?
00:27:16
Speaker
Phone up, shop them, even if you just suspect it. Here's the call. I not but don't know if there'll be another call to action, but here is one. Shop them and get them done. Honestly, if any if you want to know if your dog is faster than your friend's dog, take a freaking ball and throw it for your dog on the beach. That's the way to do it. That's peaceful. Absolutely. Well said. Can't add anything to that. Right.
00:27:45
Speaker
We're going to have a few seconds break when we come back. Julie is going to be sifting through some animal feed and Kate is going to be getting cross at a mountain.
00:28:00
Speaker
Right, pick of the week time. Kate, talk to us about Taranaki Maunga. Well, on the face of it, it is a celebration for Indigenous people of New Zealand and I do not want to take anything away from them and and the good news for them, not at all.
00:28:19
Speaker
But it made me think, in my ignorance, you know, I didn't know anything about this, and it's made me have a little think around the whole subject. But basically, it was in The Guardian, and it is, yeah, I'll probably pronounce everything completely wrong, please forgive me, everybody.
00:28:36
Speaker
but Taranaki Munga is a New Zealand mountain. It has been granted the same legal rights as a person. It's the second highest mountain on New Zealand's North Island and its surrounding peaks have become being granted personhood and and this is in fact the third natural feature in New Zealand to gain the same rights duties, I don't know what duty a mountain has, and protections as individuals. So it's one of the, apparently it's one of the most symmetrical, volcanic cones in the world and looms impressively over the flat Taranaki plains
00:29:18
Speaker
um on the North Islands, West Coast, and it's believed to be the country's most climbed mountain and has become a popular tourist destination. ah But it's got considerable cultural significance for the Taranaki Maori people and its designation of legal personhood is a long-awaited acknowledgement of their relationship to it, including that it is considered an ancestor. So the New Zealand Parliament, they voted unanimously for a law on Thursday that would formally confer Taranaki, its companion peaks and surrounding environment, to the status of a legal person but they actually, notably, they haven't actually given it back to the Maori people themselves so it's still owned by the government. Hundreds of the Taranaki Aiwi members travel to the capital to witness the final reading of the bill and um obviously incredibly happy
00:30:23
Speaker
When we think about the concept of personhood, what we are doing is putting in place a very Maori indigenous concept into Western law. Tutu said, adding that it serves as a starting point to shift the way in which significant natural features are treated. When we view them as being ancestors, what we ultimately look to do is to see behaviour change.
00:30:49
Speaker
So I don't want to take anything away from the celebration of these people. They've ah had the land stolen from them in the first place. I don't want to disrespect their beliefs. um What's happened to them in the past was terrible. But there's a big bit of me that's thinking, hang on a minute, they're giving a mountain personhood.
00:31:11
Speaker
and apparently ah that rivers have been given personhood and around the world holy books have been given personhood, Hindu idols, corporations, all sorts of non-sentient things haven't been given personhood. But what about the animals? Whenever people have tried in law to get personhood status for particular animals such as chimps and elephants, it's failed. You know, it's failed. And how it just, it's just so desperately sad. These creatures, what do you think, gang? Well, I was just about to say, do you do you think that that failure in the past for for animals has been because it's a bit close to the bone, because the vast majority of people are eating animals and they're aware that they exploit animals
00:32:11
Speaker
and that's you know if if you just start saying yeah that that elephant that's in that circus or that zoo or whatever fine you've got legal personhood i think it might be a bit too close to the bone whereas like actually we can all say um now and you've you've acknowledged the historical context of of this this mountain and this land that that was stolen off a culture but actually we can all say yeah listen let's look after that mountain you know that's fine because I don't think anyone thinks that they're systematically oppressing a mountain.
00:32:44
Speaker
you know, so it's it's kind of an easier one to be like, yeah, let's all look after that park, shall we? Should we all look after that lake? That's a good idea, you know? I don't know. What do you think? You're right, it doesn't have consequences that are negative. I mean, if conferring personhood on the mountain meant, oh, no, you better not walk up and down it because you'll erode it and you'll hurt it, then people will be like, no, but we want to walk up and down mountains, right? OK, well, I think we'll ditch the personhood bit then, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think that's it, isn't it?
00:33:14
Speaker
It is just a lump of rock that has no thoughts or feelings, hopes for the future or anything like that. I guess it is the home to trees, which also as far as we know are not sentient beings, but all the animals that live there.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, I just think that, yeah yeah, I think you're right, Anthony, it's too close. like We cannot even go down that path with with chimpanzees who are so very, very, very like us because it's like the first step on a slippery slope um to having to admit that how we treat all the animals within our food system and every other system is abhorrent you know. so I would say that ah I mean that this is clearly a a positive story because of the the cultural context and it is is a
00:34:14
Speaker
is a culture that has oppressed saying we realize we have oppressed and we want to do something symbolic to to acknowledge that and to and to apologize for that. That aside, I still think it's a positive step towards animal liberation. It's a very, very, very, very small one, but anything where people are universally, because it was universally voted in in in the government,
00:34:42
Speaker
People are universally saying, yes, let's be more considerate. That's a good thing. That's that's part of the journey towards being being considerate and and and thoughtful towards non-human animals. But um yeah, there's a big, big cognitive dissonance obstacle that needs to be overcome first, doesn't there?
00:35:04
Speaker
And they still haven't handed it back to the people actually, so they're probably the government or whoever's still making a massive load of money on car parking and goodness knows what else. I don't know all those sorts of things. so yeah i'm I'm just wondering who's going to ask the mountain which way it wants to vote in the next election, like presumably like if it's got legal personhood it should be conferred to every other you know right that's afforded to ah to people that that live in New Zealand.
00:35:32
Speaker
I don't know, maybe Mark can give us a ah local scoop on that next time we have him. You'll have to have a postal vote because it's not going to make it down to the... be Very true, very true. Mohammed will have to go to the mountain. um Right then, Julie, we were saying earlier, good old Defra, good old Defra doing that, you know, survey, highlighting how many snares there are.
Defra's Proposal for Animal Feed
00:35:55
Speaker
Good old Defra, wouldn't you say? Wouldn't you say? Not always. um So for the people who do not know who are outside of the UK, Defra is our UK government's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. They're meant to have a protective role but in fact A lot of the time they are protecting animal ag and in this story that I'm about to tell you, they are trying to shore up the failing meat industry. So anyway, here's a story about the failing meat industry. Are you sitting comfortably? Defra is looking to reintroduce processed animal protein into some livestock feed.
00:36:42
Speaker
which would make England and Wales the same as other countries in the EU. um They've got a consultation out at the moment, seeking people's views on changing livestock feed controls which would allow poultry waste products like from the poultry meat industry to be fed to pigs and pig leftover meat products to be fed to poultry. and It would also open the door for the introduction or the reintroduction, I should say,
00:37:18
Speaker
of insect byproducts into pig and poultry feed and ruminant collagen and gelatin. So that's basically connective tissue and hoofs of cows and sheep in non-ruminant feed, non-ruminants being chickens and pigs. The current ban on these things getting fed to these creatures came about because of the spread of fatal livestock diseases called TSEs and that stands for transmissible spongiform encephalopathy and that is things like mad cow disease and they're fatal brain diseases basically. So when they were rife that's when all this feeding bits of animals to other animals completely stopped.
00:38:10
Speaker
and But now they're thinking that they're it well. They're saying it's just to you know keep in line with the European Union who amended their own rules in 2021 to make use of these secondary products of the meat industry.
00:38:31
Speaker
So Defra is saying, we know more about these illnesses now. We think we've got the handle on this. I think we're fine everybody. We'll put all these things back in these farmed animals' diets. They're saying it would enable investment in the insect protein sector, open new markets for renderers and could vary diets for livestock. Oh, definitely they're diet would be varied, but it would be full of crap waste products that in nature these animals would not be consuming. Pigs in the wild do not eat chickens, folk. And
00:39:12
Speaker
and chickens don't go around hunting pigs either, there you go, there is the news. yeah You know the phrase like keeping up with the Joneses, like oh oh you know yeah grass is greener on the other other side, that sort of thing. Like the whole thing of like, oh we need to keep up with the EU, you know, we need to make sure we're not getting behind, we need to make sure we our pigs are eating connective tissue and ground up insects and things like that. race to the bottom comes to mind. Absolutely, absolutely. So there's all things wrong with that. It's not only not these poor animals who are already imprisoned in factory farms would naturally eat and can digest etc but
00:39:57
Speaker
even for the meat eaters out there, you are what you eat, but you also are what you eat has eaten. And if you wouldn't be feeding yourself with these scrappy things, then don't be doing it third hand either. So, and it is a good sign in a way animal ag is struggling and that's why they are trying to cut costs and make markets out of these secondary products because never underestimate the power of secondary products. Some people might think that some products that they consume or buy aren't because they are not the main industry that are abusing that animal, that it's somehow okay or not as bad. It definitely is.
00:40:48
Speaker
and never underestimate the power of boycotting these products ah either. They are showing up they so-called mean industry and the The pet food industry is showing up the human meat industry big time at the moment, for example. So animal ag is struggling. We need to hold it under the water.
00:41:13
Speaker
until it's gone. So I've already been on the website and taking part in this consultation. you can take but You don't need to be a farmer. You can tick the box that says you're just a member of the public and you can let your views be known. I've already done it. It's quite fun.
00:41:31
Speaker
um It's just a short little survey. So that's the bits and bobs that are going to get fed potentially to chickens and pigs. And they also the other piece to this is about the insect farming and We don't want that. We just don't want that. As vegans or even as informed consumers, we don't want insect farming. From a vegan point of view, we don't know about the sentence of insects. It's better to assume that it's there than it's not. It's a kinder way of doing it. But actually, we don't want intensive farming anywhere.
00:42:10
Speaker
We don't need things to feed to animals, to feed people, we just need to feed people with plants. So any diversion from that mindset is just a long way round for a shortcut and is going to harm our planet. But insect farming has the same issues and problems as any form of intensive farming.
00:42:33
Speaker
that when you've got lots of living creatures in one space, it only takes one of them to get some kind of disease and they're all going to get it. And it's a lot harder, I would imagine, I've never farmed insects, but an animal can show ill health and we can see it fairly rapidly.
00:42:52
Speaker
I don't know how quick it is to spot in an insect. So not only could insects be harboring illnesses and we might not know about it till it's too late, but they are also very well known vectors.
00:43:07
Speaker
of illnesses as well. And if you doubt what I'm saying, have a think to yourself about malaria. It's one of the biggest killers in the world. You know, it's carried by a fly and the bubonic plague wasn't carried the source was not the rats, it was the fleas on the rats. So be afraid, be very afraid of insects, I think, on that side of things. Yeah, I think just oppose this, we just need to keep hammering the message home that we don't need to be feeding farmed animals, we just need to be feeding people. That's the solution to this, not feeding them bits and bobs and insects.
00:43:47
Speaker
Completely agree. i've I've carried out the survey whilst you were reporting on that story. It's very quick and very easy and you can get your opinion across. um And it's available in Welsh too, so you know. He was listening to me and paying attention. Honestly, folks, he was. Absolutely. Men can multitask. We also need to remember that. Nobody needs bacon. You know, it's important to remember that too, isn't it?
00:44:13
Speaker
um Absolutely brilliant Julie, really brilliant. Potentially going to be billions and billions of insects farmed and at the moment we have no idea of their sentience. There are so many, you know, they of they they learn to avoid painful stimuli. They have really pretty complex you know, no neural stuff going on and stuff. We don't understand it just because they're little. You know, we don't know, do we? And also two little terms. Swine flu H5N1.
00:44:51
Speaker
I mean, be afraid. It's just... Avian flu. Yeah, absolutely. It's
VAT Study on Food Prices and Emissions
00:44:58
Speaker
mad. It's mad and disgusting. It's just the wrong answer to the problem, definitely.
00:45:05
Speaker
Absolutely, one one answer is coming up though you know we we might have the people with the the big wire cutters that can liberate the animals and the people with the big voices that can advocate on behalf of the animals but also we have got the professors and the accountants on our side as our next story is going to tell us but first of all here's a little thing that you can do if you want to get in touch To get in touch with us, send us an email at enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com. We see ah ourselves as a collective, our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas of what helps shape the show. Go on, send us a message today, enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yes, indeed, it is the return, the revenge of the professors and the accountants because a new study has recommended raising VAT, value added tax, on meat and dairy but a zero rating on fruit and vegetables in a bid to improve public health and lower emissions. This study claims that in the UK alone, this would result in 2000 fewer deaths but it would also reduce the UK's emissions by the equivalent of half of London's emissions. Research also suggests that an area the size of Wales would be freed from agriculture. Then then what would the Welsh meat board do? They'd have no news stories to put out. That would be a tragedy. Anyway, this comes from the Oxford Martin School study. that um
00:46:46
Speaker
to do with um Oxford University. I couldn't quite work out the link but they seem to be closely associated if not basically the same thing. um It would increase tax revenues collected by governments according to the Oxford Martin School. Researchers modelled the change in consumer behaviours along with the resulting environmental impact and health outcomes of raising VAT on meat whilst zero raise rating fruits and vegetables They said, we found that health improvements were primarily driven by reductions in VAT rates on fruit and veg, whereas most of the environmental and revenue benefits were driven by increased rates on meat and dairy. Professor Marco Springman, who was the lead author of the study, explained that the tax systems on food in the EU
00:47:33
Speaker
and the UK were currently not fit for purpose. He went on to say that a modern tax system that addressed the critical health and environmental challenges of the food system is urgently needed. Adjusting VAT rates based on their health and environmental impacts is as good as a no-loss policy gets, whilst delivering benefits for public health, the environment and even government revenues. And the full study for which there is a link in the show notes so Shows the UK to have the lowest rates of tax, Denmark to have the highest. What do you reckon then, Julie? Is it as simple as that? This is a a no-loss policy, just tax them and that will that' will solve everything? Well, it wouldn't solve everything, but it would be so much fun. I would love it to happen.
00:48:20
Speaker
won't solve everything. Might make some people think twice about their shopping. It would make me feel even happier about mine as well. Absolutely, absolutely. I nipped into a well-known supermarket on the way back from my race today very quickly to do a tiny what I thought top-up shop and it was small by my standards, all fruit and vegetables and things. And the woman on the checkout said, quite cheeky, I thought, are you having people over?
00:48:49
Speaker
I was like, no, no, this is just for me and this is just a top up because this is nothing. What an odd thing to say. I know, I know. But um it it did once it was on the con conveyor belt thing, it did look like quite a lot, I suppose, but that but not but as I say by my standards. But yes, it would make shopping for beautiful, peaceful,
00:49:14
Speaker
vegetables and fruit and lovely, fresh, healthy things that are just great, even more enjoyable. So, absolutely. If you can put a tax on booze and cigarettes, definitely do it for a meat and dairy. What we're seeing is, like, animal ag gets subsidised. Shouldn't that be raised by the people who are buying it? Like, what what why am I paying animal-like subsidies, if if i'm and I'm never consuming this stuff. it does and I'm sure they come from different parts. I'm sure I'm simplifying and misunderstanding that, but it does seem reasonable, doesn't it? I think it all ends up the same place. Yeah, absolutely no, it's a big peave of mine that we are supporting indirectly. Abattoirs with our council tax in the UK and a the meet and dairy industry with our employment-related and taxis that we pay, definitely.
00:50:15
Speaker
Oh, the joy of skipping down the fruit and vegetable ah aisle and the fact that the majority of a supermarket is you just don't even go there, do you really? So isn't that great? and But yeah, so isn't it interesting? Did you notice that the majority of countries currently have more VAT on fruits and vegetables than meat and dairy products. Why is that? That's so so bizarre. And um yeah, the goal is to have 0% VAT on fruit and vegetables and meat and dairy, you know, what was it, about 20% or so? 20, 25% different for different countries.
00:50:59
Speaker
and it kind of, I don't know, I think it is kind of common sense. Obviously if you're going to put higher tax on meat and dairy that is going to hopefully reduce people's purchasing of it a while and that is going to have a direct impact on the environment because that is what is destroying our environment and biodiversity and all the rest.
00:51:22
Speaker
And if you are, if people are going to eat more than they're one a day, fruit and vegetables or whatever it is, Julie, how many did you have on your, how many fruits and vegetables did you have on your conveyor belt today? ah I think it maybe was the entire length of the conveyor belt but normally um it is even longer than that and I'm having to sort of hold back and only load so much and then wait till something's moved through and everything but But I'm worried about where the tax is going to go. If people pay more tax on these things, will it go to the industry and shore them up? I don't want that. Will it even out? Will it even out? Mate, I guess they can't change the subsidy levels. Although fruit and vegetables do not get any subsidies, I don't believe, do they? It's just animal agriculture which gets subsidies.
00:52:13
Speaker
Perhaps the any extra might go to the fruit and vegetable growers because we've had so many clothes down in this country over the past few years, haven't we? Yeah, I would like to know what the money would be spent on first. Yeah, well, I guess so. But the way it's spent at the at the moment can't be worse. They're hardly going to tax the meat and meat and dairy and then hand it back in subsidies to meat and dairy, do you think? Stupid it stupider things have happened. Yes, I feel a bit sorry for Marco Springman as well, because he's been saying this a long time. He gave a TED Talk on this in 2019. What a shame. But I mean, I think it it's great that a high profile academic institution is is saying this, you know, it's not some bloke wearing a tinfoil hat, you know, talking into a beer can, you know, this is reputable stuff that's going out there. and
00:53:10
Speaker
the the more people making noises like this, the more likely it is to happen. I just wanted to... Oh, good on him for just keeping on, keeping on. You know, six years down the line, he still hasn't given up hope that he will enlighten in people, but yeah, it must be hard.
00:53:25
Speaker
I mean, this this government has said that they, not to talk politics, but they have said that they want to tackle health issues, food and health and health inequalities, haven't they? So perhaps they may bring some of this in, maybe not, you know, as, ah you know, zero rating fruit and vegetables and, you know, putting have a much more on meat and dairy. But, you know, it just doesn't seem right that meat and dairy, they they are it's taxed lower than fruit and vegetables, it's completely wrong but there we are. I don't know why that is, it's historically why they've done that. Yeah, absolutely. I do not get a commission for saying this but just whilst we're on the subject, a nice little call to action to maybe finish this segment. Go on to oddbox.co.uk, see if they deliver to your post code but that's currently where I get my vegetables from. They deliver it every week and it's all stuff that um they can't sell to supermarkets because there's too many of them or they're too open. Oh I know about them. I've looked them up and they don't obviously where I live there's no way. That's a real shame but yeah it's an absolute joy. of I've had it for the last few months and Monday morning it's there on my doorstep
00:54:40
Speaker
um All different stuff. It's seasonal. They show you where it's come from predominantly from the UK But it's all stuff that supermarkets have said now we're not having that so it's great You're saving waste and it's all lovely veggies. i've I've done some thorough research It really doesn't seem like they're an organization that deals in animal products either. So hooray for them I do
Encouragement to Share Podcast
00:55:00
Speaker
enjoy it very much. And if you've enjoyed our show today, here's something you can do for us if you like.
00:55:06
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free enough of the falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player. That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
Next Episode Preview: Vegans Doing Non-Vegan Things
00:55:42
Speaker
Thank you, everyone, for listening. So we have another podcast coming out, which is Vegan Talk, and that will be available from Thursday the 13th of February. And that is going to be with Anthony, Julie and Mark. And they will be discussing what to do when vegans do non-vegan things. Surely not. Surely not. I know. Perish the thought. It does happen though, apparently.
00:56:12
Speaker
and we'll tell you what to do about it or what we do about it anyway. Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Kate, for your contributions. Thanks everyone for listening. I've been Anthony and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:56:32
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsclap.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:57:13
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic, there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from