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148- To Vegan Camp Out...or Not To Vegan Camp Out: Listener Mailbag 5
89 Plays26 days ago
Should vegans be attending Vegan Camp Out in lieu of the news that the venue is closely entangled with animal cruelty? When will Sweden catch up with the rest of the vegan world? And who exactly are these "vegans" who are swimming around and killing lionfish? This is our fifth Listener Mailbag episode where Ant, Kate & Julie read & respond to your messages. We love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.southfldaily.com/2024/06/25/lionfish-extermination-corp/)
https://lionfishcentral.org/about/
https://www.facebook.com/HuntSaboteursAssociation/posts/1032319862267668/
https://plantbasedhealthprofessionals.com/factsheets
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Kate & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Engagement
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody. What's that knock at the door? It's the Posty bringing us all of your lovely correspondence in our latest listener mailbag special. This is Vegan Talk from Enough of the Falafel. I'm Anthony and in this episode I'm also joined by Julie and Kate. So I
00:00:24
Speaker
Take your flat grown meat elsewhere without doing that in the state of Florida. Do they call the media and say, hi, sorry. they They're arguing like, oh, poor long as you didn't get the wee brunyant with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:59
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everybody. Julie here. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk. Thank you for joining us.
00:01:13
Speaker
Hi lovely listeners, I'm Kate and it's absolutely great to be here with Anthony and Julie. We're here to share and discuss your emails. Thank you for sending them in. Absolutely, I just wanted to say hello to all the horrible listeners as well, like Kate said hello to the lovely ones, um all the horrible ones out there.
00:01:34
Speaker
you know it's fine, you'll you'll get there eventually, you'll get there eventually. um Our Listener Mailbag episodes are really important to us, we really love hearing from you, it's really important to us that um whilst there are some of us who are happy coming on the mic that actually if that's not your jam but you want to get involved in the discussion electronically using the written word rather than spoken word that is just as valuable and in fact just listening along.
00:02:00
Speaker
is also valuable too because we would not just do this to ourselves certainly not for very long we might do it occasionally just to chat amongst the three of us occasionally but no we really want to do it to have a dialogue with you guys. So we have got some emails that you have sent in over the last couple of months. I can't remember when the last Listener Mailbag show was, but it was definitely before Christmas. It was definitely towards the end of 2024.
Lionfish and Ethical Dilemmas in Veganism
00:02:28
Speaker
Enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com is how you can get hold of us and send in
00:02:33
Speaker
Your message is they can be happy, they can be positive, they can be cross angry. And the first one comes to us from Jules. Kate, do you want to read out Jules' email before we discuss?
00:02:44
Speaker
Yes, I will. Thank you, Jules. It's really lovely that you've taken the time to write into us. Jules says, hi, folks. I just discovered the podcast and am absolutely engrossed. I've been meat free since 2015 and vegan since 2019. Well done, Jules. The podcast has been an amazing way for me to keep up with animal welfare and vegan news. Thanks for all that you do.
00:03:13
Speaker
I would love to hear your takes on an organisation that has recently become popular on TikTok. The Lionfish Extermination Corporation is a registered not-for-profit that kills hundreds of lionfish around the coral reefs in Boynton Beach, Florida. They claim that these lionfish are highly invasive, have no natural predators, and consume vulnerable native marine life.
00:03:41
Speaker
The team films extermination dives where they kill they cull dozens at a time and post these videos on their TikTok accounts to over 600,000 followers. What I find particularly interesting and indeed perplexing about the group is that it's few members um identify as vegans. Despite this identity, they will often have a neighbouring chef cook their captured lionfish, which they then consume, justifying eating the lionfish because of the print.
00:04:16
Speaker
the preciously mentioned reasons. What do youth folks think about not just this group but the broader topic of humans acting as apex predators to invasive species such as lionfish? Would it be better to let the lionfish destroy the reefs or find an alternative solution to culling them? I'm genuinely very curious.
00:04:41
Speaker
So Jules shares an article for more information on the Lionfish Extermination Corporation, which will include in the show notes and their website as well, which is lionfishcentral dot.org about, and their TikTok handle at lionfishextermination. Thanks for reading my question. Happy holidays to you all from Toronto, Canada. Cheers, Jules.
00:05:08
Speaker
Thank you. What a great email. um Guys, what what do you think about Lionfish and some of the more general queries around being an apex predator for some of these? Well, the thing is, these poor fish got in this place in the first place because they were captive pet fish that were then released.
00:05:33
Speaker
That's the root of the problem here. They didn't choose, they didn't invade anything. They were leased into that area and just did what boyfishes and girlfishes do when they're in love. That's all. So it's not their fault. And that is a really big argument for not letting egypt Egypts keep fishing little tanks in houses and in ponds and gardens and all the rest of it, you know, because you don't know where these fish will end up because these kind of things can happen. So one bit of bad behaviour towards a sentient being leads to more problems, doesn't it? So these people who released these fish in the first place, they should be fined.
00:06:20
Speaker
and punished for that but the problem does need to be solved but it would be nice to find a solution that didn't involve killing these poor little creatures and maybe finding a way to relocate them some way or another but that was that's the first thing we need to take ownership of this it's not to do with the fish it's to do with daft humans here yeah i i i would extend that daft humans argument in that i just think the people doing this if if you said to them we have scientifically proven that we can control this better without you swimming around killing them feeling like you're the hero i still think they'd like to i still think they'd want to do that i i i really we've we've said this on the show before when we've been talking about
00:07:14
Speaker
you know, hunting that's being done in the name of population control and things like that. I think it's a real big smokescreen. It's a euphemism. it It's, you know, I do understand we are we are animals too. And in a sense, I don't think we have to feel ashamed of some some of us some of our species saying do you know what I do get a bit of a bloodlust I do have a bit of a get a bit of a kick hunting things like it's okay to acknowledge that you feel that acting on it is a different matter however and I just think like that
00:07:52
Speaker
and There's no way you're going to go around killing them all and that's going to solve it. Of course you're not. They can reproduce quicker than you and hunt them all. that That's an absolutely ridiculous solution. And I think they know that that is not actually a sustainable solution. It's actually going to work. It might drop the numbers a little bit, but it's not actually going to work.
Vegan Campout Venue Controversy
00:08:15
Speaker
The only thing that would work would would be something far more systematic. Because as you say, Julie,
00:08:21
Speaker
you know that it is a problem, it's a human created problem, it's our obligation to to sort it out but kind of swimming around going oh look at me um and then saying oh look we donate some of the fish to to local chefs and the fact that on their website they've got these recipes is absolutely ridiculous and and sadly for whatever reason, maybe maybe again, it's it's that bloodlust by proxy or by people wanting to live vicariously through these quote, lionfish heroes or whatever. i Since Jules sent the email up email to us, that their followers have gone up by another 20%. There's now over 700,000 people following this TikTok account. I've just clicked on it now. um Couldn't find anything though.
00:09:12
Speaker
about some of the people being vegan and that's something we've not discussed thus far Kate. I mean what's what's your thought on that? I don't know whether you could see anything suggesting that they are vegan. Well they're not vegan are they? If they're eating fish. they're not They're not even clever enough to know the definition of veganism or anything about it if that's how they are identifying I mean, it's sad, coral that obviously they they do seem to be putting extra pressure on coral reefs, but coral reefs are already dying because of humans and they're being overfished and we're creating climate change and and there's all pollution in the sea. I mean, there's so many pressures on coral reefs before the lionfish get there. Anyway, I did find this study, which was, I thought, incredibly interesting, and it was about, now where was it? It's called the density-dependent colonisation and natural disturbance limit the effectiveness of invasive lionfish culling efforts.
00:10:18
Speaker
So they have some people have actually done an experiment on culling of lionfish. It's a 21 month long field experiment on um natural reefs and they had several different types of culling.
00:10:35
Speaker
um infrequent culling where they actually they managed to get rid of like 60 to 79 percent on average and there were slight increases of the native prey species and and then there was some other ones culling every three months, culling every six months but I won't get into all the details You can Google it yourself. But basically, so they they managed to get rid of quite a chunk of the population of lionfish, although they breed so stupendously quickly, you know, they'd soon come back. But there was a massive hurricane. The hurricane came in. The lionfish densities were
00:11:17
Speaker
then became greater on all the culled reefs compared to the non-culled reefs so they came back with a vengeance. The prey and the prey biomass are either all the little fish that they're predating and all the bigger fish I guess as well declined by 92% and the species richness declined by 71% on the bionilli culled reefs. So basically as soon as there was like a massive natural disaster event, the lionfish sprang back and the kind of so-called native fish did not. So I guess they're probably going to have to do, I don't know, I don't want to say they have to do more studies because it's involving killing more lionfish but
00:12:05
Speaker
Basically, perhaps these other people need to look at this study and think, well, it's not working anyway. But I think maybe some of the fisheries people, ah the NOAA fisheries organization industry, that they seem to be eyeing up the lionfish as another opportunity anyway to market and sell um as fish food, sorry, as food fish, not fish food, food fish.
00:12:31
Speaker
But yeah, it just gets to show these things are just not straightforward. what What we might think, oh, this is going to work, it doesn't necessarily work. ah In fact, it might think make things even worse as far as the the indigenous ah population is concerned. Yeah, if you taste nice, if you're going to be a little animal or a fish, don't taste nice because the chances are, or be valuable as a dead thing that people might want to consume, because the chances are people will decide that you don't have a predator and that you need to be culled. If these things are absolutely tasted
00:13:10
Speaker
horrible to everybody or we're just too spiny to eat at all or something like that, people probably wouldn't worry too much about the coral reef because they don't worry about other stuff hurting the coral reefs. But if you do happen to be a bit valuable and a bit edible then yeah, you might find you're on the cull list. So yeah, in in response to Jules's email, what is our take? I mean, we've we've we've heard we've heard some some opinions thus far I've just been looking through the about section on lionfishcentral.org and my take on Nate Sorensen who is a lionfish hunter and founder of the Lionfish Extermination Corps is that he's a complete bellend and a narcissist and a bully and he describes himself as a lionfish reef hero there's there's a comic book of him killing these animals that are at the fraction of his size on on the website he says how quickly they reproduce he's obviously not going to kill them all he's not actually going to make a difference
00:14:16
Speaker
i'm actually he describes himself oh i love diving and if occasionally a good dive can be accompanied by doing some good to the invite well that's a bonus too so he's not even he's not even saying that he's doing it for a good reason it's just sort of incidental but then calls himself a hero and has these lovely cartoons of himself.
00:14:35
Speaker
absolute bellend and a bully. That's my opinion, Jules. There you go. Well done, Anthony. I think you've just um given the the definitive definition, is that right, of hey a human apex carnivore, predator even. Yeah, human human apex predator.
00:14:53
Speaker
There we go. Let's move on. Julie, why don't you read us? Why don't you read us the next email? This one comes from Ali. Hello there, Ali. Thank you very much for writing in. And Ali writes, Dear Falafelers, it's all kicking off on Facebook. And I thought it might be interesting to hear your thoughts on the following. And it's a link regarding this year's vegan camp outs. I'm going to tell you a story about that in a second.
00:15:24
Speaker
Look forward to hearing from you. So, here is the story. Hertfordshire Hunt Saboteurs have brought to our attention the fact that Vegan Campout is going to be taking part, taking place, sorry, on land owned by a company called A.E. and W.A. Far Limited and that this company own various businesses including a poultry unit with 400,000 broiler chickens and that they also allow shooting to take place on their land. They let the master of puckerage hunt who runs the shoot use the land. So they're kind of linked to the hunt but it is shooting that goes on. and But also they have this broiler chickens
00:16:19
Speaker
business, which is, you know, pretty large scale. and So, they feel that, obviously, vegan campout must be paying a fee for the land to be used for their event and that that is funding then this abuse of animals and silt killing of animals. So, there is an intention there to stir up a boycott so that people who are vegan, who are the only folk that would go to vegan camp out, you would imagine, will not attend, will not buy tickets and not attend to give the message that, you know, we won't have events on land that is used for animal abuse and we won't fund it by supporting it with our money for tickets for events that are held on land that is used in that way. if If I can interject, Julie, this post specifically does call for a boycott. I came across this post when it was reposted by someone else who was not themselves calling for a boycott. They were just like, I just think people should know. And then maybe it can impact their decision in future years. But the at the very bottom of this post by the Hertfordshire Hunt Sabs, they say we urge each and every one of you not only to boycott the venue,
00:17:38
Speaker
but support and encourage VCO Vegan Campals to find a more suitable cestly um setting. So this particular HuntSab group are saying, we think that you should not go, basically.
Balancing Vegan Principles and Event Planning
00:17:50
Speaker
Right, shall I kick off? This is... This, I kind of have been dreading this coming up, dreading, dreading, dreading because I have friends I love dearly, dearly on both sides of this and I really think we all need to chill
00:18:11
Speaker
and respects everyone's thoughts and views on this and I have thought deeply about this. Imagine, I'm sure they must have in good faith went and had a look at the place, looked at it, they wouldn't have got shown all the the stuff to do with animal animal abuse stuff that goes on and the shooting and all that. I imagine that they have and paid a massive deposit, and that if they back out, they're gonna lose it. And that may well destroy... vegan campout for good. I mean, I personally, I just say I love vegan campout. I go, i've I've been practically, you know, to the majority of. It's a place where pre-vegans, pre-gans go and learn about veganism. They get educated. It's a safe space. There's a whole load of people who
00:19:08
Speaker
and perhaps are isolated as a vegan most of the year they go there suddenly they feel safe and there's so many fantastic animal rights organizations there and what I really really love about it is the fact that people from different organizations get together spark off ideas new ideas happen new new new um projects happen you know and so I just think it is fantastic fantastic, a fantastic event and I do worry that if this goes down it will be lost and then the animal agriculture industry, that they want it to fail, they want us to fail.
00:19:55
Speaker
You know, we are, we're a threat to the system. I don't even know, as has happened so many times in the past, whether there are, I'm not, I'm not saying the Hunsabs are wonderful. I think they're amazing. Everything they do is wonderful.
00:20:12
Speaker
I just wonder if, not for them, maybe not because ah is this has come from other people as well, I just wonder if there are people from the other side infiltrating and stirring it up because this also happened like a couple of years ago where there was somewhere else And, you know, there was a lot of stirring up happened then. And I just think it's really hard to find land that has nothing to do with animal abuse at all. It's really, I don't know if there is that has some basic facilities as well. I don't know. I'm just very worried that, you know, we with this is going to be a ah proper kick and
00:20:57
Speaker
it will fail. I don't want, I do not want it to fail. I don't want, you know, whatever they're like as people, the people that run it, people say awful things about the people that run it. It takes Mavericks to get things off the ground. And I'm sorry, am I am going on of it, but I have thought about this and I just think, how many people don't shop in supermarkets?
00:21:21
Speaker
you know, supermarkets so they support the livestock industry and all the abuse that goes on there. It's very hard to be a vegan in a non-vegan world and perhaps one day somebody will be able to buy a big load of land that is entirely vegan and and that that, you know, is is what we would all want. It's the vegan land movement. They need to put a specific bid in for some land that has, you know, water facilities or some kind of thing. That's on their next shopping list, definitely. I mean, it it it doesn't sound to me like a vegan campout is anything that um a bit of rewilded land needs. That's the last thing it needs. like it would have to be very specifically the vegan land movement is is buying some some land to very specifically be used for a festival once a year because nothing's living on that land when you've got how many thousands of vegans tramping all over the place and generators powering burger vans that's ah that's not going to be a haven for wildlife is it? I've never been to vegan campouts, so I don't feel as emotionally invested in it, so I can be much more distanced. But I think it's absolutely right. It would be from all I know, and what would I know on this? I think hard to find a piece of ah a large piece of land that didn't have some connection with animal abuse. In a way, it's interesting that these people
00:22:58
Speaker
who are connected with animal abuse are willing to have thousands of vegans on their land. You know, it's kind of in a way we do need to have a bit of a conversation with the people that we oppose sometimes and kind of meet them halfway and, and you know, maybe their sons and daughters might wander along into the camp out and attend a talk and you just never know and then decide that this is as far as it goes and they don't follow in the footsteps of their father or mother or whatever a and continue the business that is run.
00:23:38
Speaker
I, yes, I don't, you know, you don't kind of have to rule out going on enemy territory sometimes, you know, to kind of have a kind of play the longer game sometimes. So yeah, you might find that Vegan Campout goes ahead down there and some people get into the chicken broiler place and do a bit of filming or, you know,
00:24:01
Speaker
If Joey Carpstrong's down there, he might get some good footage. You just, well well, everyone's distracted looking at the bands. He might be able to sneak in. So you never know. So I kind of, I'm going to be a bit on the fence about the whole thing. I'm not going to go. and I have nothing against the whole event. It sounds really interesting. am I just can't justify the journey and the expense and all the rest of it. you know and ah and If it was closer to me, I think I'd be tempted to go. So yeah, I would say don't rule it out. I wouldn't be if I was in the position of thinking of going, I wouldn't be supporting a boycott necessarily. But
00:24:45
Speaker
I might want a bit more information. I was aware that there were other criticisms of this event in the past that were not just about whether it was being held but to do with fights between the people who were organizing and all the rest of it which I'm not quite sure of the ins and outs but I do have people in my life that I'm very fond of who are genuine vegans who have some real issues about the management of vegan camp out and I don't know the details but I'm a kind of innocent bystander on this but I do think it would be a great shame if these type of events didn't go ahead for the reasons that Kate has outlined. Yeah, I would agree like that their purpose and and and benefits ah
00:25:31
Speaker
a huge and for any kind of social justice movement to be successful we need opportunities to get together and to be empowered and to inspire other people I mean I know so many people who you know late August early September become really really active and ah very often you find out they've been to vegan campout that's that's what started that that impetus, that's been the catalyst, so that's really important. To your point Kate about um ah people from the other side got in and started infiltrating, I don't think that's the case, ah I think what is happening from some people in the hunt sabs and perhaps others who take very direct
00:26:09
Speaker
activism i think there is a resentment towards events like vegan campout and i have felt this myself when i was running a cafe 365 days a year we did not shut on christmas day we were out doing that activism every day of the year and vegans coming up to me my some of my customers coming up to me and saying oh you're gonna come to vegan campout it's gonna be great I felt really cross because I saw my place and my causes place in the middle of the city where we had set up taking taking the message if you want to put an evangelical spin on it to the non-vegans of our city and we weren't going to just up sticks and shut for two three days and have a jolly in a field with a load of other vegans
00:26:58
Speaker
no judgment on anyone else who does want to do that. I do think that is important. But no, my place was in in a non-vegan city saying, look, veganism is real, it's important, and it tastes good as well. And I can understand why people who are hunt sabs, as well as other things, who do direct action, could resent the thought of thousands of vegans in a field having a wonderful jolly time, eating to fish and chips, and having a boogie to Maccabee or whatever.
00:27:27
Speaker
when they could be sabbing a hunt or whatever and I i think that's part of this and I'm reading through the comments. The top comment on this story at the moment is from somebody who says, I'm grateful for you taking the time taking the time to give this information, they're addressing the hunt saps, vegans should be campaigning rather than camping out. Now I don't agree with that comment like pay people need, of course we need to campaign, of course we need to be doing direct action and all all the rest but we also need to refuel, we need to connect and blah blah. So in terms of what to do with this, my my feelings like listening to what you're both saying and my own reflection, if you've got a problem
00:28:09
Speaker
with Vegan Campout using this venue, contact them and say, do you know what, next year, if you do it at a venue that supports animal ag or animal cruelty, I won't be going.
00:28:22
Speaker
Or, even better, you could say, are you having difficulty finding venues that aren't associated with animal cruelty or directly related to animal cruelty? If you're finding it difficult to find places, I will put some time aside and I will look for places because Vegan Campout is a small organisation and I imagine running the event every year is a full-time job and actually once you've got the venue booked it's not you don't just sit there for nine months and then wait for everyone to turn up you've got loads of other stuff to do so I imagine finding a new venue is is very difficult work so if you've got a problem with the venue they've chosen find them a better one you know because there's that there's an awful lot of good that is done from from these events too and I'm not sure it's an argument
00:29:12
Speaker
but a lot of small or relatively small start-up vegan businesses can make a lot of profit at events like this and I'm not talking about exploiting vegans money or whatever but actually if your business is on the edge um having a field full of vegans for a weekend who will pay a pretty penny for your products that might just make you the difference between you surviving another year and continuing to do that that good work. So like I think there's there's ways we can get around this. We don't have to fight, but we should still have these discussions. you know I don't believe in the whole kind of like, oh, we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves. and No, no, no. It's conversation. It's a conversation. We can have a discussion if people are getting nasty. Well, that's bad for them that they they shouldn't be, but it's important to discuss
Reactions to Venue Criticisms
00:29:59
Speaker
these things. I think
00:30:00
Speaker
Everyone should be allowed to to listen to their own conscience and weigh things up for themselves, absolutely. And not like you said about the small, supporting small businesses there, I mean, Omni were there, like two years ago this little little company this little dog food company and now they've just they've they've got Deborah Meaden and that other guy who i don't know who he is ah on the dragon's den to to back them i mean how amazing is that that's going stratospheric um
00:30:36
Speaker
but yeah I just think there are going to be loads of of people going going home and then doing their own activism as well actually and they may have had some ideas sparked just by even just by you know chatting with with with random people they've never met before and that's how ideas happen when you meet people and you chat and you socialize so there's all of that as well and and I do think it's just I'm just sad. ah Yeah, it's it's awful. It's awful. But I really, i'm i'm I don't think we should let, um ah which I think is a really good phrase, the perfect be the enemy of the good. And I i know I get very super critical about
00:31:27
Speaker
organizations and sometimes it's like I wrote to a b-core organization that was falling down on one tiny little thing, one teeny, it was a loo roll company, a teeny tiny thing, they were said oh we want to get a vegan kind mark for ah for our company But they they they were using they said they were using sheep's wool by-product as a biofuel. And I went, hmm, not sure you can use, use you you can get the vegan kite mark for your business because of of that. You're actually helping prop up a hideous industry that abuses animals. But did I write to Tesco's?
00:32:10
Speaker
and complain about their new roles. No, I did not, you know. So I think sometimes we can hold... Yeah, but Tesco's isn't competing for a vegan kite mark and these people are. No, true. So you were quite right to do what you did there. Oh, thank you, Jeremy. Well played there.
00:32:31
Speaker
Thank you. But you're getting my point! Yeah, absolutely. and and And vegan businesses are very often held up to far higher standards than their non-vegan counterparts. And, you know, that's good for them too. We should be better.
00:32:46
Speaker
We should be better and we are and we can be even better if we don't use venues that exploit animals. Anyway, let's move on. This next email is from Kim, a seven years vegan from Sweden. They say, hi, everyone. Love the show. My perception is that here in Sweden, we are a little behind the vegan movements progress that exists in, say, the UK, US or Germany. How long do I need to wait until I can enjoy the same benefits you Brits do? Keep up.
00:33:15
Speaker
the good work. Thank you for your email, Kim. Right, Kate, Julie, have you got a crystal ball? How long's Kim got to wait until, you know, there's move free and in Stockholm supermarkets? I mean, there might already be. I don't know. It's not just about waiting though. It's not just about waiting. Don't wait, Kim. Take action.
00:33:37
Speaker
And then the waiting won't feel like waiting because you'll be actively doing something. So write to your equivalent of a local councillor or a member of parliament or talk to your local shops about what you would like to see and go online and comment on things and offer people a bit of animal rights education and Yeah, then it wouldn't be waiting. Well said Julie. I can't really top what you said there, except to say that even here in the UK and probably the US and Germany, it still feels like we've got a long way to go. And how long before we have an entirely vegan UK? I don't know. These things go in waves as well though. I mean, I was in um
00:34:34
Speaker
I was in Waitrose yesterday. um It's just near where my friend lives, you know. Nothing wrong with shopping every week at Waitrose. But anyway, anyway, anyway. There was hardly any bloody vegan stuff. And I was like, hang on, there used to be loads here. What are you doing? But i I think these things go in waves, don't they? And comparison is the thief of joy, Kim.
00:34:54
Speaker
you know and you you've been vegan for seven years you're doing pretty darn well like people everyone else in in your local community they can do it too you're a brilliant example to them keep it up and like julie says and the more the more stuff you do to to make things better the the less like it like waiting it feels so um yeah thank you for getting in touch and hey send us some send us some tips and some some insights as to what it's like being vegan in Sweden we would love to hear we don't have a
Listener Feedback and Vegan Experiences
00:35:26
Speaker
swede on our team at the moment we've we've got a few other countries covered lovely to hear from you Kate we're going to another country in the European Union Yes, we're we're very international. So isn't it lovely? How gorgeous that we've got all these people listening from ah all around the world. Thank you, everybody. It's wonderful. So um this is somebody from Spain and her name is Elena and she writes, Good morning from Spain. My name is Elena, fully vegan since a couple of years ago. Well done you, vegetarian since 2009.
00:36:07
Speaker
I'm just writing to thank you for your lovely podcast. It truly helps to make me feel less lonely as a vegan. Oh gosh, sorry to hear that you feel lonely. Actually, I discovered your podcast last Christmas searching being the only vegan at work.
00:36:24
Speaker
We feel your pain. ah not Sorry, no, Eleanor didn't say that, that's me. I love the cheerfulness of Anton Dominik, the calm serenity of Mark and Julie and all of you really. Wish you all a great start of the year.
00:36:40
Speaker
I'm slightly worried that Eleanor is going to stop listening now because she has praised my cheerfulness and earlier in this episode I just called someone a massive bellend so i yes I think it was out of character but I do stand by it.
00:36:57
Speaker
avid listeners might recognize the name Elena and Spain and those years. And in fact, we had a bit of back and forth following this email and we arranged for Elena to be part of our Going Vegan series. And ah if you scroll back in your podcast player, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, we had um a great chat, which is still up there to listen to. If you haven't already in a perfect example, that anyone can be on our show if you are vegan. We would love to hear from you. We'd love to have you behind the microphone. And in fact, our very last email that Julie is about to read out is some feedback from that very episode. Can I just say quickly, thank you, Elena, for your comment. I don't know about camsorinity. I don't feel very cam or serene sometimes, but thank you for that. So we have an email now from Daisy. Hello, Daisy, and thank you very much for writing in. Daisy writes, absolutely love today's Going Vegan episode. I was going to email to say how brilliant it was even before I heard you mention the Plant Based Professionals podcast, but thank you for that.
00:38:15
Speaker
I wanted to say your guest was lovely but you also covered the subject matter of eating disorders with so much sensitivity and I think it was exceptional how you managed to address some of the criticisms and misconceptions when it comes to veganism and eating disorders.
00:38:37
Speaker
Keep up the great work. I love listening to your podcast and after my shameless plug of in a nutshell on the vegans UK Facebook page Someone had asked for vegan podcast recommendations I also mentioned how great enough of the falafel is to best wishes Daisy. Thank you Daisy Yay! Lovely, thank you Daisy. Really, really lovely comment and yeah, do check that episode out listeners if you haven't already. Kate, you messaged me once you'd listened to that episode too, to share something to do with, was it to do with plant-based health professionals and yeah specifically disordered eating? Do you want to yeah say a bit about that? Yes, just quickly. Hello Daisy!
00:39:24
Speaker
and But yeah, so ah yeah I thought that episode was fantastic as well. I just thought how you all spoke about um eating disorders and everything was was was sensitive and lovely. And actually Plant Based Health Professionals had just within like a couple of days published a fact sheet on binge eating disorder and that is now on the website for Plant Based Health Professionals UK if anyone would like to um ah look at that. I think it it also is lovely, insensitive and just so interesting if any because ah it's ah it can be very lonely suffering from something like that
00:40:17
Speaker
just even knowing some of the stat statistics of how just how many people in the UK, and I guess around the world do suffer from it, just might help you at least feel less alone. And, and basically, yeah, it, it says all the way through, get going, go and seek some help from a medical professional.
00:40:41
Speaker
that fact sheet that you referred to um that is in the show notes for Elena's Going Vegan episode as well as this one that you're listening to right now. Right, that's the end of all of our correspondence. We hope you've enjoyed them. If you've enjoyed the show, here's something you can do for us.
00:41:01
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free enough of the falafel joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player. That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. I've really enjoyed listening to all of those emails and questions. I want to ask a question now just because I want to get in the mood too. Julie, Kate, what has been the
00:41:46
Speaker
ah Best thing you have eaten this year so far. We are on February the 8th as we record right now Can I have two things? Well, it's not like my... I'm just trying to think. The two two things that I just didn't realise how freaking good they were, and I'm not saying I just had this once, but I had never used avocado oil as a kind of dressing on salad or on vegetables. I always put oil on my food, always, you know to get theset the omegas and calories in because I'm a bit skinny.
00:42:21
Speaker
but So I was used to using things like hemp and these kind of seed oils and things like that. And avocado oil is a bit more expensive. Have you ever had it? It's really like smokey flavour. It's like you've barbecued your like your peppers or your tomatoes or whatever you're putting it on. Oh goodness me, it's a game changer. So Avocado oil, I don't eat it in isolation obviously so it's not like you know that was what I had but using avocado oil on my food has been a revelation this year and I sort of knew how much I really loved sweetheart cabbage. I know it sounds really random but see this year sweetheart cabbage has got even better. I don't know what kind of winter it's been that's made it different but
00:43:14
Speaker
I'm really enjoying sweetheart cabbage at the moment and with everything i else that I have but I am really sold on avocado oil. It's not a single dish that I can... I think they've been feeding the sweetheart cabbage with them insects and gelatin and things like that. I think that's why it's tasting so nice. Oh, don't say that. Don't say that. You put me off it. Oh my goodness. Every meal I have is my favourite food. I was really, ah you know, I was just thinking that this morning. I had porridge this morning with all kinds of additions in it, really special things mixed in. And I got to the bottom of the bowl and I thought that was the best thing I've ever eaten, but I always think that. love it What about UK?
00:44:02
Speaker
Well, I kind of feel similarly to Julia in that everything I eat is like, oh, that was delicious. and But I guess since since it does, if it's from the beginning ju beginning of January, I think we just about had some of ah the the food I'd made for Christmas left over. And and i i so I'm just going to brag myself. It's not my recipe. It's Chef AJ recipe, actually.
00:44:28
Speaker
and this's she does this the most amazing chocolate mint kind of frozen tart thing on a kind of date-y nut base. I guess this is already too complicated for you, Julie. But one one side the fact one time I made it and um I reached for the peppermint and poured day poured it in and it turned out to be almond essence instead. And then I thought,
00:45:00
Speaker
Oh darn it, it's supposed to be a peppermint, chocolate peppermint talk. Come on, I'll add the peppermint in as well. And do you know what? It tastes even better. So almond and peppermint and chocolate is like absolutely phenomenal. So yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, so anyone can find that recipe, Chef AJ.
00:45:21
Speaker
I'm enjoying this. It feels like we've turned into a cookery show. For for for for what it's worth, my my favorites of but it it doesn't taste very good, but I'm very proud of it. I have made loads of jars of walnut and flaxseed nut butter.
00:45:38
Speaker
um that are perfectly balanced so they ah if I take 60 grams of it each day I've got all my omegas there um but it's as bitter as anything it tastes bloody horrible um but there we go. Is that raw or is that roasted or what? ah Very very lightly roasted so it's not yeah yeah um but that doesn't taste great I think the best thing I've eaten my lovely fiancé Alex made um some ah tofu that had been marinated in like Tea like loose leaf tea and all sorts and that was just incredible. I don't know how she did it um But yeah, that was very lovely. Anyway, we're falafeling on I want to say thank you to Kate and thank you to Julie for your contributions and to this episode obviously thank you everybody who got in touch with us with an email enough of the falafel at gmail dot.com is where to get in touch and you can star in the next mailbag episode or you can just send us a message and say I don't want this reading out but I want to say this and that's fine too
00:46:41
Speaker
And just a little heads up to the next Enough of the Falafel episode which is coming out on Monday the 24th of February and that will be with Anthony, Paul and Carlos and it'll be a Vegan Week episode as usual, the roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:47:07
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you so much Julie, thank you so much Anthony for all your contributions, fantastic as ever. And thanks everyone again for listening, you're wonderful too. I've been Kate and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:47:34
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We hear just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplat.com and sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:48:15
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right Dominic, there's over a hundred episodes on there featuring a brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and of course around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from