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159- Free plant-based school meals in London...?
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But what about freedom of choice?!?!?! In this week's vegan & animal rights news wrap, Dominic, Richard & Ant discuss a 'set-to- between Sir Sadiq Khan and Zack Polanski on the subject of plant-based-by-default public canteens, as well as eight other stories from the last 7 days.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/film/liberty-film/
https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10448895
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/03/21/prosecutor-demands-prison-sentence-for-dutch-dog-breeder/
https://theecologist.org/2025/mar/25/trout-welfare-regime-thrown-doubt
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/03/14/netherlands-becomes-first-in-eu-to-sell-eggs-from-vaccinated-chickens/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/farmers-urged-to-strengthen-biosecurity-after-bird-flu-sheep-case_66323.html
https://vegconomist.com/health/replacing-animal-products-plant-based-weight-loss-no-matter-how-processed/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/03/24/amazon-forest-cut-down-to-build-road-for-cop30-climate-summit/
https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/london/calls-for-free-school-meals-to-be-vegan-by-default/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Richard & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for this week's vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony, I'm also joined by Dominic and Richard on this episode, but that is enough of the falafel, because it is time but Vegan Week!
Veganism and Social Justice
00:00:16
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Brrr! Protein! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me, oh no.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hang on a minute, you always pick phone.
00:00:43
Speaker
Social injustice has connection with another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:58
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. My name is Dominic. I am always thrilled when I get to be one of the folks on Enough of the Falafel. Thank you, everyone, for joining us.
00:01:14
Speaker
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the show. Wow, that was an introduction. Thanks, everyone, for being here. It's great to be here again. i'm
Podcast Format Overview
00:01:24
Speaker
Richard. Welcome to the show.
00:01:25
Speaker
would you be able to, Richard, tell us what is what is the Vegan Week show? What do we talk about on Vegan Week for any new listeners out there? Well, we talk all vegan stories that happened last week and we'll also highlight some of the new stories from last week, discuss some of them a bit more in depth, give our opinion and after a special kind of debate.
00:01:49
Speaker
Super, super, super. Thank you very much, Richard. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel. Let's get on and hear what has been going on in the last seven days.
00:02:02
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
Fauna Films and 'Liberty'
00:02:16
Speaker
going start with our first story, which arguably is something that's not happening in the last seven days, but it's something that's happening in the next year because there is a production company called Fauna Films and they have this week launched a crowdfunding campaign to raise eight US$1,000 to complete the film that they are working on. The film is called Liberty. It is produced by this non-profit studio, Fauna Films, and it is following a six-year creative journey by disabled artist Gretchen Ryan, using her art to tell a powerful story about resilience
00:02:56
Speaker
and compassion. You might be thinking, well, that sounds very interesting, Anthony, but what has that got to do with animal rights? But animal rights is well in there. It is well in there.
00:03:07
Speaker
Dominic, you've had a bit of a look at this. Obviously, it's still in production, so there's a limit to what we can say about it. But can you give us a bit about the animal link in there?
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah, so she has made this enormous painting called Liberty Leading the Animals. ah Liberty being freedom, not as in like a person whose name happens to be Liberty.
00:03:33
Speaker
ah There's a painting that I'm not aware of because I'm such an ignorant person all i know is poems i don't know visual art so there's a famous painting liberty leading the people so the idea is that she wants to create hope and strength for animals and challenge audiences to consider what freedom means for all beings what fantastic thing it sounds really interesting Yeah, absolutely. and and And something that can really open our eyes to but perhaps areas that are less reported on or or less, you know, there's less awareness, I would say, globally about, you know, these these areas of life. Because it doesn't often get a spotlight on, I guess, does it? So I don't know if you find this, Dominic, but sometimes there are...
00:04:23
Speaker
There are things that you kind of want to learn more about and without making excuses, sometimes you need opportunities like this to kind of be like, oh, look, that sounds great. Right. I'm going to learn more about it through this film that's coming out or whatever. It can make things more accessible, can't it? Yeah, yeah.
00:04:39
Speaker
She looks like a person who is full of drive and heart and inspiration. So, ah yeah, really, I hope it goes really well for her because she's clearly putting a lot of her own individuality into into this into this project. So, yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker
Very cool indeed. Yeah, indeed. And stateside listeners might be interested to know that the film will conclude with the public unveiling of Gretchen's painting at a gallery event in Los Angeles on May 16th.
00:05:17
Speaker
This year 2025 as we record and tickets to the event will be available to those who have supported this campaign on the crowd went phone that as as well as elsewhere one would presume. So follow the link in our show notes um and get googling and who knows you might pop up in the background in and in a film without having to be an extra you know what what a bonus.
00:05:39
Speaker
Nice positive one to start things off with.
Trout Welfare in the UK
00:05:43
Speaker
Less positive is our next story. It comes to us from theecologist.org, which is a a website I've not come across before, but there's some we we featured it um a couple of weeks ago.
00:05:55
Speaker
seems like a really interesting website. They have been shedding a light on trout welfare, trout as in the fish, trout. And the headline is Trout Welfare Regime.
00:06:07
Speaker
thrown into doubt because apparently trout are being killed in Britain for for restaurants and supermarkets, but with no oversight, um this has been revealed through the eu Humane League UK's Freedom of Information request.
00:06:26
Speaker
Now, this really surprised me. Apparently 16 million trout are farmed in the UK each year. Yeah, a huge, huge amount. The article says this makes them the third most numerous farmed species after chickens and salmon, which surprised me. But actually, yeah, I guess that that's that is going to make them one of the most oppressed species and in this country, as as we're sitting and recording from. But as the article points out, there's no or almost no oversight for their welfare at slaughter, no legal provisions detailing how to minimise pain at the point of slaughter, which means that basically, as this article says,
00:07:13
Speaker
animal abuse is less likely to be detected or punished. Richard, i guess I guess, like, in a sense, from ah a vegan perspective, it's not just about how an animal is killed, it's it's whether it's being killed in the first place.
00:07:29
Speaker
So, I don't know, what what's your take on this one? Like, is it is it kind of, a all fair enough, like, we're shedding a light on this and actually there could be marginal gains for this this species if...
00:07:43
Speaker
if legislation could be brought in, or should this be a different debate that we're talking about? I think it should be a different debate. I mean, i don't know if you, both of you, have watched Seaspiracy, but the the fact that they're saying that there are no regulations when it comes to farmed fish, here...
00:08:02
Speaker
We can see their trout, but you could argue Scottish salmon being farmed. it would be about the same. The conditions in which those fish live are appalling. There's no hygiene whatsoever, as for the documentary showed.
00:08:16
Speaker
And let's be honest, I mean, they talk about pain, which obviously as vegans, we want to minimise the amount of pain we inflict on animals, ah no matter the reason.
00:08:28
Speaker
But it's funny how, what are the regulations for open fish catch? Don't they suffer? Don't they have pain? Do import fish from other places? So I think focusing the debate of how they die or whether they suffer while they die, it should be a bit broader and should be like, well...
00:08:48
Speaker
Problem is fishing, and on top of that, the conditions in which those animals live. I mean, they're talking about farmed fish, 16 million. What amount of space do they have?
00:09:01
Speaker
Where there's all the dropping... ah their droppings go. That's a real problem. So I understand why we need to regulate, you know, from a welfare point of view. But on the other hand, it's so difficult to enforce. You'd need such an amount of inspectors and money poured into the system just to check that it's going according to the welfare legislation that I think it's impossible I think I think it's all about fishes fishing is not good yeah that's abundantly clear by the statistics that are brought to light in this article that actually the last welfare inspection that was carried out in Scotland Scotland's one of the
00:09:42
Speaker
few nations who do carry out welfare inspections was May the 16th last year. So basically nothing has happened in the last year to inspect any kind of welfare for these animals. These inspections are announced in advance. It's like the the epitome of kind of like, oh, we'd better look like we're doing something, like someone's and was's going to be coming in three weeks.
00:10:04
Speaker
Let's make it look like we give a damn. So I do agree with you, Richard, and you know really from a vegan perspective, we need to be looking at things a bit broader. I do think it's worth highlighting these things nonetheless.
00:10:17
Speaker
In that, i think I think that folk who are eating the the dead bodies of of trout, I think they would just assume that this was regulated mo more carefully. I think there's, unfortunately, ah ah people assume that there's this like benign patriarchy that, well, everyone's going to be doing everything properly. you know Yeah, we like to live thinking that other people will look after things that we don't. And we hope that, you know, whether it's the lamb, whether it's the fish or the chicken, that we have that idealised conception that they care about them and not being a product.
00:10:58
Speaker
And it's not how it works. Absolutely.
Korean Animal Rescue Efforts
00:11:00
Speaker
And to take us on to an instance where people have been taking matters into their own hands... That brings us on to our next story from the Korea Herald.
00:11:11
Speaker
And that you may be aware there has been wildfire, wildfire, wildfire ravaging across Korea at the moment in the, in the, the South East of the country. An animal protection group has been rescuing domestic animals.
00:11:28
Speaker
that are being held at farms and homes in affected areas. um This is a coalition of 20 animal rights groups. They're calling themselves Lucy's Friends.
00:11:38
Speaker
They said on Monday this week that they've been conducting rescue missions for animals since Sunday in one of the provinces that has been struck by one of the worst forest fires in in the country's history.
00:11:50
Speaker
They say they have rescued a total of 24 animals in the region, including dogs, cats and goats, who have unfortunately been tied up or abandoned at homes and farms.
00:12:02
Speaker
They also said they found an illegally run dog farm of over 100 dogs, dogs but they were unable to rescue most of them as the owner would not relinquish the rights to the animals.
00:12:15
Speaker
I mean, this is obviously a really upsetting story, Dominic. I suppose the silver lining is the amazing spirit shown by these people to to change and save the lives of, admittedly, a small number of of companion animals. But, goodness, that means the world to them, doesn't it?
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. Like, so interesting hearing, you know, how different different parts of the world are. We can all get caught in our own daily routine and and just, yeah, you know, like...
00:12:47
Speaker
not realize you know it's it's brilliant it's brilliant here of these people coming together and doing uh such a such a wonderful thing really good there's a lot of uh uh ignorance from a lot of british people that i meet through the work i do that that people don't understand South Korea and and, you know, the, the huge difference between South Korea and North Korea. And, you know, I practice, uh, Taekwondo, the South Korean martial arts. And, uh, yeah, it's, um,
Vaccinating Chickens in the Netherlands
00:13:20
Speaker
it's, it's brilliant. It's brilliant hearing this brilliant hearing that people are, ah coming together and and and you know against a disaster that's so awful you know what ah what a demonstration of compassion and activism of the greatest kind hooray hooray for that direct action yeah absolutely absolutely now obviously another horrible thing that is going on in the world for non-human animals
00:13:48
Speaker
at the moment is bird flu, which brings us on to our next story where the Netherlands have been responding to this horrible thing going on um in a way that is definitely gonna divide opinion and they are the first EU country to respond in this particular way, namely vaccinating chickens against bird flu whilst still allowing their eggs to be sold. This news is brought to us by theanimalreader.com.
00:14:20
Speaker
So this vaccination trial is currently limited to just one farm and will run until early 2027. If successful, it may be expanded to other farms, the agriculture minister announced earlier this week.
00:14:35
Speaker
So the chicks receive the vaccine shortly after they're born. They are then raised and sent to a laying farm the location of which has not been disclosed for reasons that are probably fairly obvious.
00:14:47
Speaker
The eggs from these vaccinated chickens will only have been sold in the Netherlands to avoid any complications in international trade. But as I said, not all eu countries allow the sale of eggs from vaccinated chickens and since the Netherlands exports many chicken products some countries might stop buying eggs meat or chicks if vaccination becomes common across the country.
00:15:13
Speaker
Richard I've got a sneaky feeling I know how you're going to respond to this story it raises all sorts of issues this just very small little nugget of information doesn't it what's your take?
00:15:25
Speaker
My take is, why can't they put more vaccines so people don't have to take them? No, please note my sarcasm here. No, I think, you know, it's, I can see here the lobbying by the pharmaceutical industries. I mean, obviously, if this trial succeeds, which let's hope it doesn't.
00:15:44
Speaker
If it succeeds means pharmaceuticals have a ah bigger market, they are able to, you know, boost their profits and at the end of the day that's what they want. um can i Can I interject, Richard, and just we we know each other quite well so I i and just i think I understand what why you're saying let's hope this trial doesn't succeed but could could you say a little bit more about why that's your opinion?
00:16:09
Speaker
Because, let's face it, the H5N1, I always get it wrong, I never know if it's H5, H1, N5, but it's a very deadly virus. And the last thing you want is for the virus to keep mutating at a higher rate, which I'm i'm no doctor, okay?
00:16:29
Speaker
But what's clear to me is that viruses always find a way. We saw that with COVID. You got people vaccinated and three months later you had another variant. You can't really, you know, if you have chickens in a crowded area, thousands and thousands of them,
00:16:47
Speaker
That's breathing ground for viruses. Call it H5N1, call it another one. um We're just asking for trouble in the future. So instead of thinking how we can solve this particular disease, we're going the the long way around. We're going you know we making animals suffer even more.
00:17:08
Speaker
We're not eradicating this by ending the problem, which it is animal farming in the first place, especially factory farming. So I understand the reasons behind day one why they want to do this.
00:17:20
Speaker
But I think, you know, it's it's the wrong approach. I mean, it's kind of... Let me put an example. If I go deaf and you ask me questions and I don't reply, it's like you thinking, oh, he doesn't like me.
00:17:35
Speaker
No, he's deaf. We're getting the wrong things. Yeah, and actually... that this ah little Again, a little nugget in this story does kind of give you a bit more insight as to the real nature of the problem in that um we're told that the last bright last outbreak in the Netherlands was in February when 37,000 laying hence were killed Basically, because if bird flu is detected on or near a farm, all chickens are immediately killed. So people do understand the nature of this.
00:18:08
Speaker
um But it yeah just seems to be a a bit of a a desperate, misguided response to it. It would be interesting also to know, let me say, it would be interesting to know how this is given to the chickens, because I believe it won't be an injection.
00:18:24
Speaker
You know, you can't just start injecting the vaccine to chickens, I'm assuming, you know, but the the conditions in which they live, we see this in other industries, right? You've got not only chickens, but...
00:18:37
Speaker
You could call it cows, call it pigs. They're all under such an amount of drugs just to make sure they don't get infected, which it's just, you know, this this time it will be chickens.
00:18:50
Speaker
God knows what it will be next time. Yeah, absolutely.
Dutch Dog Breeder's Neglect
00:18:55
Speaker
Well, our next story comes to us from the Netherlands as well. um We are told again by the animal reader, actually, that the Dutch Public Prosecutor's Office on Tuesday this week demanded a 20-month prison sentence for a dog breeder.
00:19:11
Speaker
Over the last two and a half years, authorities have seized more than 700 neglected animals from neglected animals from his breeding facility. The prosecutor also requested a 15-month sentence for his ex-partner.
00:19:26
Speaker
Additionally, both are facing a lifetime ban on keeping animals. This was already enforced by the Dutch Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority.
00:19:37
Speaker
There's more details about the story that we'll perhaps get into, but Dominic, can I just have your initial response to this? Just with those numbers, to me, they don't quite add up. 700 neglected animals...
00:19:48
Speaker
neglected animals And we're talking about 20 month prison sentence. I'm not necessarily somebody who is always thinking that prison is the answer, but that the number of lives that have been adversely affected by this person, we're talking 20 months.
00:20:04
Speaker
I'm not sure. well What do you think? I think that we often talk about reactions of folks who eat meat to stories to do with pet animals and how a lot of People who define themselves as animal lovers, really, they're just pet lovers.
00:20:28
Speaker
But are they even pet lovers? Now, I don't want to come across in a, oh, I've got all the answers. I'm such a, on my moral high ground. I make mistakes. I don't want to come across hugely judgmental.
00:20:39
Speaker
But I've met people who call themselves vegan, who I've been really inspired, who then... think that pet shops are okay. And it's like, it's a thin line between what we're hearing about in this story. It's a thin line between that and any puppy breeder. It's a thin line. It's a thin line. And, you know, yeah, you know, people just see the end product, the the the the dogs who do make it into people's homes, and they don't see the backstory of what puppy breeding
00:21:13
Speaker
it's like it's it's awful it's awful i've also said in previous shows i can't help but think that i know some people who'd react to anything that's set in another country and a kind of oh well it would never happen here you know the fact that this happens to be a netherlands story you know leads into that popular xenophobia that's such a terrible terrible thing so um yeah of course it is it is you mentioned the maths it is you know, in my opinion, same as yours, like not necessarily the greatest punishment for like what's what's been like a really horrible thing.
00:21:53
Speaker
But there's actually a bit me that's surprised at all, really, that, yeah, that that ya prison sentence has actually happened at all. So, yeah, yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
It'd be really good if people didn't support pet shops full stop. That would be good, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would. And what's interesting about this story is that the the man denies all allegations and basically says, well, the animals were fine. There was there was nothing wrong with the care for the animals.
00:22:22
Speaker
His ex-partner, however, says the issues that were there, she is saying, no, there were issues there. They came because of the rising number.
00:22:32
Speaker
of dogs at the facility and I'm in inferring from that that actually or the demand is there or maybe the demand is growing we do know that um the demand for companion animals did rise around COVID time and this this case was kind of gaining public attention in 2022 so just after then it does show that well actually if demand for if you tell a pet breeder no no your services are ah needed we need more of this they're going to keep They're going to keep plowing the money in to get even more money back.
00:23:06
Speaker
um And the individuals who are going to suffer are going to be the the animals themselves. um So another reason to, you know, if if you feel you do want a companion animal in your life.
00:23:19
Speaker
um for it to be and a case of adoption rather than paying somebody um who is his breeding and and doing that for money. No matter what they say, oh we do it for love.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah, indeed.
Bird Flu in UK Sheep
00:23:33
Speaker
Right, we're going to move on to our last story before we hear Dominic and Richard's pick of the week and we're looping back around to bird flu sorry about that but also not sorry because these things are happening they're affecting uh non-human animals as well as human animals and sometimes you do just need to discuss them get them out there this is a case from the uk comes to us from farming uk where farmers are being urged to strengthen biosecurity after
00:24:03
Speaker
a case of bird flu in a sheep. Now this happened in Yorkshire. ah Farming UK say is a reminder for farms to maintain tight biosecurity particularly those with mixed poultry and livestock.
00:24:17
Speaker
So DEFRA confirmed the case of H5N1 following repeat positive milk testing on a farm where avian influenza had previously been confirmed in captive birds.
00:24:29
Speaker
you're going to hear a repeated theme here. It feels like we're reporting on a story from a few weeks ago. The UK's chief veterinary officer said, risks to livestock remain low, but they nonetheless urge all animal owners to have scrupulous cleanliness in place.
00:24:45
Speaker
Richard, it feels like with all of these things, obviously most of us, that there's been a ah global pandemic in very recent living memory. There seems to be this real aversion for people to say that there's a problem. It's always like, no, no, no, no no there's not a problem.
00:25:01
Speaker
There's not a problem. But if you could act as if there is a problem, it would be probably the sensible thing to do. But there's no problem. There's no problem. It does seem a bit a bit mad, really. No worries. The Titanic is not sinking. It's all fine.
00:25:14
Speaker
We'll be fine. Yes, I guess it's a bit more um repeated stories where... We can clearly see that there's a problem. We can see that the authorities are concerned about this problem, but somehow they don't want to raise the alarm.
00:25:30
Speaker
This could be for many reasons. It could be, you know, for people not to stop consuming, could be lobbying by the industry, could be fear of people's reaction.
00:25:41
Speaker
um But there's signs. ah As time goes by, there's more and more signs that this could be a potential problem in the world. in the near future. Yeah, I think this the bit in the story that really upset me was when there was a ah list of things that that that farms should be doing, seven key areas farmers should be aware of to maximise their, quote, frontline defences, one of which was cited as rodent and wildlife management.
00:26:12
Speaker
Basically saying, well, you know, disease transmission can happen from wildlife. And I thought that's that's a bit of bloody cheek. Obviously, i'm I'm concerned and upset for those wild animals that that could inadvertently be even more targeted and persecuted and by people in this industry. but Like, come on, that the reason that this is is spreading and is mutating is because of livestock farming.
00:26:35
Speaker
it's It's not because there's too many rats running around or whatever. it It is. And and there's ah another thing here that, yeah, they're they're quoting mammals as, be careful with them. But migratory birds could be another big threat. You can't control wildlife.
00:26:52
Speaker
And you shouldn't. And you shouldn't. And the fact that, you know, birds will fly next to these farms, can easily travel miles or hundreds of miles and be carrying the disease. So, yeah, this is a bit of let's take lets people know that we're taking action, that we have a plan,
00:27:14
Speaker
But it also raises the question, maybe people are getting a bit more sceptic about authorities and how they deal with problems. But yeah, for me, it's a bit of nonsense because you're not dealing with the problem itself. You're containing the fire, but you're not trying to bring it to an end. Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:36
Speaker
Stop eating chicken. that's That's going to be surely the most simple, straightforward, direct response to this. Right. Well, that has been our first six stories of the week. After this very, very short break, we're going to be hearing Richard and Dominic's picks of the week.
00:27:53
Speaker
Richard is bringing us a story from the world of global politics. And Dominic is getting very studious with a study that has come out in the last few days.
00:28:09
Speaker
Right, Dominic, why don't you kick us so off? You bringing us a story from The Vegconomist that is basically seeming to say, i can eat as many Beyond Burgers as I want. Is that right?
00:28:22
Speaker
That sounds a glorious thing, doesn't it? They're reporting on a study that's saying say in ah replacing animal products with plant-based foods, no matter how processed, leads to weight loss.
00:28:37
Speaker
What a claim. What a claim. It's a study ah conducted by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and published in the journey Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism.
00:28:52
Speaker
And it's concluded that eating plant-based foods instead of animal products can lead to a significant weight loss regardless of how processed the foods are.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah The research is a secondary analysis of a study that randomly assigned participants who were overweight to an intervention or control group for 16 weeks.
00:29:17
Speaker
So those in the intervention group followed a low-fat plant-based diet with no calorie limit. They experienced improved metabolism, weight loss, ah whilst the control group made no changes at all.
00:29:31
Speaker
So, yeah, an an interesting study. They're saying the top three predictors of weight loss were reduced consumption of processed animal foods like smoked fish,
00:29:43
Speaker
mean... unprocessed or minimally processsed animal food such as milk beef and eggs an ultraprocessed animal food such as cheese fried chicken and sausage ah this is believed to be due to reduce calorie and fat intake and increase fiber intake um with calorie burn from increase after me metapolis um i mean What do you think, Ant? I've got opinions. What's your knee-jerk reaction to this story? I have a bit of an inbuilt knee-jerk to any kind of study that just unquestioningly says in its headline, weight loss is always a good thing.
00:30:22
Speaker
ah um but because and are you i used to think that and i now don't don't believe that and obviously for for lots of people they might decide that actually weight loss done in a certain way is a good thing for them and there would be a lot of science saying yes that could be beneficial it's not always the case it doesn't have to be the case so i just wanted to kind of get that out there that just kind of speaking in an unquestioningly, in unquestioning way that, oh, weight loss is always desirable for every single human being on the planet. There's that response.
00:30:55
Speaker
It's, it's one of those where I think though this study might show that like for like plant-based versions are going to be less unhealthy then than, than animal-based versions.
00:31:11
Speaker
I still think like, like people are going to know that a Beyond Burger is not health food. Like you're not going to convince somebody of that, nor arguably... I think you might convince someone. I think you might. And I think that's a bad thing because I don't believe that a lovely meal cooked with fresh vegetable ingredients and marvellous spices and herbs and full of nutritious...
00:31:41
Speaker
Real food. I am going to call it real food. I am. I think that a lot of people want to believe that a Beyond Burger is as healthy as all of that. I think that there's plenty of people who wouldn't take much convincing. and Yeah, it is relative, isn't it? Like, the wording of this story seems to be like, yay, burgers, woo! Because that's what a lot of people want hear, and it's like, well, is that a thing to celebrate? You know, like, it's even healthier to not have loads of burgers.
00:32:13
Speaker
Well, this is it. And i've I've said before, I don't think the case for veganism, for animal rights or or whatever, I don't think we have to be disingenuous at any point. We don't need to, you know, we don't need to polish the statistics or anything like that. I think we can just tell the honest truth. And I think...
00:32:30
Speaker
I think there is a risk with stories like this that that we can just be like, oh, just just shove them this headline and just hope that they they just eat loads of Beyond Burgers and and no one will know the difference. Like, we don't have to go about it that way. No, I think with this study...
00:32:48
Speaker
Do you think that studies like these come out due to the war on ultra-processed food and because that war is somehow damaging veganism because one of the ways that veganism...
00:33:04
Speaker
or vegans transition to veganism is through processed food, because, you know, we are habitual animals, so we used to eat a beef burger, now we want to be on burger, so could that be a problem?
00:33:21
Speaker
Because i don't know if you've seen it, but it all over the place now, it's a war against ultra-processed foods, but is that diminishing the amount of people that go vegan because they see it as a bigger step? I certainly know in the city of Manchester in which I live, the majority of thriving vegan businesses are vegan junk food businesses. I mean, I've just been out for my dinner this evening and had a wonderful ah freshly cooked curry made that day. You know, beautiful, healthy, tasty grub.
00:33:54
Speaker
But um for all of the negative publicity that ultra-processed foods get in my hometown, that They're thriving. They are popular. so i mean I will say, to defend this article, like further down, they talk about other um things that they looked into, like plant-based diets being linked to slower biological aging in women.
00:34:20
Speaker
and And also, they talk about ah plant proteins, with being associated with lower heart disease risk. And it's interesting the story doesn't open with that, like heart disease.
00:34:35
Speaker
Nah, heart disease isn't as ah interesting as losing weight. Get skinny, everyone. Get skinny. yeah do you yeah Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, good good on Vegconomist for giving that context. And sometimes, you know, you've got to understand the game that that people are playing in the media. And yeah, you might need a clickbaity headline, but you can still try and educate the few who read down beyond it and But I think the only context in which I personally would be citing the main sort of headline finding of this would be to rebuff somebody who is his saying that, oh, well that those Beyond Burgers are really processed, aren't they?
00:35:15
Speaker
And and i I might then be tempted to say, well, yes, yes, they are. but But interestingly, they're less unhealthy than animal-based processed food. But, you know, you don't have to eat either, do you?
00:35:28
Speaker
ah but That's the key words, isn't it? Less unhealthy, you know, and that's not quite how they've spun this story really you know like um i've had a knee injury which has meant my physical exercise has gone down a little bit and i've maybe had more burgers than should have done recently i've put on a little bit of weights there we are i'm a one person case study that is It's possible it possible to get rotund on too many vegan burgers. There's my counter story for them. More curry for Dominic. That's the prognosis. yeah We're all about balance. All about balance. yeah yeah
00:36:11
Speaker
Right now, before we go on to Rich's pick of the week, I'd like to encourage listeners to just take a moment to have some gratitude for all of the brilliant things in the world, all of the causes for optimism, all of the fantastic people working really hard for positive change. Okay, just picture whatever you want to picture now.
00:36:32
Speaker
because Richard is about to tell us about Brazil destroying a large part of the Amazonian rainforest to build a new road for a climate summit, which is going to just put you in a really dark place.
Brazil's Amazon Road Controversy
00:36:45
Speaker
Richard, tell us some more about this staggering, staggering bit of news. You could not make it up. Basically, the Co-op 30 is meeting in Brazil in November,
00:36:59
Speaker
Now, the summit is taking place in the city of Belem. How do you get people to go to Belem? Well, what the Brazilian authorities and government have done is um building a road, cutting the forest in half, just to transport the 50,000 people that they are expecting will attend this summit.
00:37:22
Speaker
Now, authorities do see this as a benefit for The summit, however environmentalists, are not so happy. They are concerned about how this can decrease the amount of breathing space and the mobility of animals within the rainforest.
00:37:42
Speaker
Basically, what that would mean for many animals is they they cannot go, as they normally do, to other places to breed, to feed themselves, or I guess as people, they just like to move around.
00:37:55
Speaker
Now, even though there's a lot of concern about environmentalists, this 13-metre, 13-kilometre,
00:38:04
Speaker
road with four lanes will cut the Amazon into parts in this section. Now they say this is a bit hypocritical, that a climate change summit that is meant to think about how we humans can mitigate our damage to the environment is you are building a road for that purpose which is contrary to the aim of the summit.
00:38:33
Speaker
But that's in a nutshell what this story is telling us. Dominic, it's a bit weird to build a road crossing the the Amazon rainforest four lanes to transport 50,000 people for a summit.
00:38:51
Speaker
Even more, when you think that it's not a permanent summit, there's not people that will you be using the road daily to commute to find a way to save the world.
00:39:03
Speaker
It's just a one-week summit, if I'm not wrong. So much in this world is about spinning information. I work as an artist who does community projects with with vulnerable people, with young people, and there's often this spinning of like, oh, we really care about making these brilliant opportunities happen.
00:39:29
Speaker
And often it's just that the money was there, sometimes for like tax write-off purposes. Sometimes money was there because someone was friends with someone else in a big business, you know.
00:39:40
Speaker
And that's what this kind of story sounds like to me you just think what are the what are the business relationships going on behind the scenes what is who's who's who's benefiting from this you know like who's getting their pockets lined with cash from this happening you know awful story it strikes me as so unimaginative um we've we've been talking about you know global pandemics and and things like that earlier
00:40:11
Speaker
on in the show and obviously that was a difficult time for the vast majority of human and and you know a lot of non-humans too um in the world.
00:40:23
Speaker
ah positive that that came out of those circumstances was that they they say necessity is the mother of invention and and people were incredibly creative um and resourceful about how they responded to that situation. And a lot of models of living your life or conducting business or having conversations arose out of that or became popular through that. And many of those we have stuck with despite the fact we don't have to anymore.
00:40:51
Speaker
So weve we found new and interesting and better ways of doing things from ah particularly restrictive situation. We are not in a necessarily restrictive situation to be having summits and conversations between world leaders and and people who are stakeholders or key decision makers.
00:41:15
Speaker
with regards to the environment and the climate crisis. So we've kind of got all the all the options out there, arguably, and yet this is the this is the solution that people are coming up with. And we we can just do better than this, can't we? there that There are so many, even those of us just listening now to this story as lay people, there are so many better solutions to getting people to be able to talk about the climate other than chopping the Amazon rainforest in half. Something I would just want to point out as well. I mean, you you mentioned Richard, like it's 13 kilometres of rainforest that are going to be cleared to build the road.
00:41:51
Speaker
Even if the kind of movability of animals from one side of the rainforest to the other, even if that wasn't an issue, even if every animal was happy where it was and didn't need to move,
00:42:03
Speaker
and didn't need that portability if you want. That's still 13 kilometers of rainforests that are being cleared. So every animal whose home is based there, every animal loses their home, loses their space.
00:42:20
Speaker
And obviously it's it's far more complex than that. But even that in itself is is terrible and is reason to find a different solution to this problem.
00:42:31
Speaker
I also wanted to highlight two quick things. The first one is one of the things that astonishes me about this story is planning capability.
00:42:41
Speaker
If you can't plan a place that's suitable for a meeting, how you trust those people to find the right policies? The second thing is that this also highlights a trend that's been going on now with some fund managers and some businesses where For example, with the Paris Agreement, some businesses really thought they would have to change at the faster pace that they are really doing because they thought the politicians and authorities would enforce change. We are now at the situation where some fund managers, for example, when people put into a pension and they're thinking of ah where do we invest the money that people are putting in,
00:43:24
Speaker
they are they are seeing that if no one takes any action, politicians won't. And there won't be a future plain English. So they are choosing to increase the amount of ethical investment.
00:43:40
Speaker
We could discuss what ethical means, but ethical investment, because they realize that if they need to wait for authorities to raise the bar, we're lost. Yeah, absolutely. and we've We've mentioned already people potentially becoming a bit more skeptical of of leaders and leadership and their ability to make decisions.
00:43:58
Speaker
the right decisions. And I mean, the the very bottom of this article, if you follow the link in the show notes, you'll see what is the, know, what's the most immediate thing that's happening because of this historical summit that's taking place in the Amazon, you know, what a great place for a summit on the climate, the global climate situation to be held. What's the most immediate thing that happens?
00:44:22
Speaker
Oh, well, we've got some new hotels, a bigger airport, and a large city park. you know the The last one, great, city park, fantastic, but new hotels, a bigger airport, and a massive whopping road, cutting loads of trees down. That's that's the most that's the first step that people are taking.
00:44:41
Speaker
Oh dear, oh dear. well I did say we might need to picture some more positive things. um And we've got one more story to be able to do so. But, but before we do so, here is an invitation to send us your thoughts, your feedback on what we've said, your ideas for the show, maybe some news articles that you've come across that we've not, or possibly a take on what we've said that we have not thought of. We really, really welcome it.
00:45:06
Speaker
And here is how to get in touch with us. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
00:45:17
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:45:29
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com right? We've been talking about leaders, political leaders, and their ability to make the right decisions. And that brings us very nicely to our last
Plant-Based Meals Debate in London
00:45:44
Speaker
story. It comes to us from Southwark News, which for those that don't know, that is sort of part of the city of London, where we're basically getting an almost verbatim conversational report between the Mayor of London, Sir Sadiq Khan, and the Deputy Leader of the Green Party in the UK, Zak Polanski.
00:46:07
Speaker
Now, the calls from Zak Polanski have been for the free school meal programme that Sir Sadiq Khan has been pushing forward. The call has been for that to be plant-based by default, as well as changes to City Hall's own canteen menu. So this um this political discussion that was going on on Thursday last week, I think, I think we're sort of just over a week ah ago as we record now, Zach Polanski started the conversation by saying, would you consider making changes to the City Hall's own canteen menu? He was asking the mayor this question.
00:46:48
Speaker
Would you consider working with the contractor to make sure that our canteen at City Hall It's plant-based by default. What mean by that is that the first thing on the menu is vegan or plant-based, that it's the biggest font, that it's the most attractive option.
00:47:04
Speaker
People can still have meat and dairy if they wish, but they ask for it. So we're just flipping it the other way around and making sure a healthy and sustainable diet is the default. So what was the response from Sir Sadiq Khan?
00:47:19
Speaker
He said that we needed to be a bit careful about taking away people's choices. But, Mr Polanski interjected by saying that the change would in fact be enabling people to have more choice and that those choices are going to be cheaper for people, healthier for people and better for the planet too.
00:47:40
Speaker
The mayor then responded saying that he was very happy for the assembly member, i.e. Mr Polanski, to raise the canteen suggestion with City Hall's chief officer and added, what I'm not in favor of is not giving people choice.
00:47:55
Speaker
And I think what we've tried to do is to promote plant-based options, but to also allow people to have choice. Now, this last little bit relates to something that we've been speaking about earlier in the show about leaders making brave and proper decisions.
00:48:11
Speaker
Mr. Polanski said, you're the mayor of London. I'd love to talk to you, for instance, about free school meals and how we can be making those plant-based decisions. by default.
00:48:23
Speaker
Interestingly, the last little bit of comeback from the mayor was saying, is Mr. Polanski suggesting that assembly members haven't got enough common sense to know that there's plant-based foods in the cafeteria? If he's saying they've got no common sense, he should say that.
00:48:39
Speaker
So we've got this very, very visible discussion and debate. It's been reported in the local media. It's been happening in the the council chamber if you like, talking about to what extent do we need to prescribe things or do we need to make things plant, not plant forward, that means a different thing, but making it so plant-based things are really very much the primary option um Or what do you think, Dominic? do we Do we need to be worried about freedom of choice? That seemed to be the main objection from the Mayor of London there. Oh, we're taking away people's choice. What do you think about that?
00:49:18
Speaker
Well, there's the obvious reaction. What about the choice of the animals to not die? What about the choice of our planet to not be destroyed by modern farming practices?
00:49:30
Speaker
But I also know as a person who wants to sell my poetry books to people. I need to, an environment where people are busy and tired, present the information in the easiest manner possible. If I make selling my books difficult, people just won't buy them. You know, if it's a literature festival or you know, back room of a pub, there's stuff going on and people are exhausted and tired.
00:50:05
Speaker
People, it's not, as the mayor implies, it's not saying that people are stupid, that they might just pick the first thing off a menu. Like that, that, you know, i think that if anything, it's a recognition of how people are under a lot of pressure in the increasingly fast-tracked world we live in.
00:50:29
Speaker
absolutely. it's not It's not removing any choice to have as the default option vegan thing. And a lot of people would just go for the first on the list for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Richard, it's it's interesting that this is Zach Polanski's ask in that I can't get sort of definitive research on this, but it looks like he is vegan himself, that he's certainly you know given interviews about veganism.
00:50:57
Speaker
his vegan journey and things like that. That could be phrased very carefully to sort of, you know, he's at the start of it, but he's not actually vegan. But, you know, you you or I would would say, you know, we want free school meals to be completely plant-based. We would like the city hall menu to be completely plant-based.
00:51:16
Speaker
That's not what he's asking for. Like, do you feel like that's selling out or is there a case of someone in his position that he he needs to be pragmatic with his ask? I think there are many approaches and at the end of the day so some people want to be a bit pragmatic and see how far we can get.
00:51:34
Speaker
um I guess sometimes the mountain is so high you just want to climb a little bit and take it from there and probably complete let's go all vegan, all plant-based could get rejected in a more easier way than if you try to speak about it, if you try to just make your way.
00:51:57
Speaker
i think and ah don't know what approach is better, to be honest. I mean, it's a bit like animal activism. You never know if you're touching someone by showing them graphical images or you're touching someone just by talking or just by other means.
00:52:13
Speaker
So it's good that we have in that sense And unless we have a proven way to convince people to, well, we believe it's the right choice and certainly is for the animals, um I guess we need to keep trying and see what can get in there.
00:52:30
Speaker
But may I point out something about choice? it's It's funny for... I find it funny that people need to have a choice, which from a democratic point of view, you understand that, yes, people need to have a choice. We're all free.
00:52:44
Speaker
But people won't have a choice in two or three years or five years time about smoking because they're planning to increase the the age of smoking. Now, why don't you give people freedom for smoking? Do you believe it's bad, maybe? Absolutely.
00:52:59
Speaker
could be a reason, right? So maybe we need to protect people from themselves. And that's why some policies are created, to protect people from themselves.
00:53:10
Speaker
Why don't we show people how to live a healthy life? Maybe that's the option we need to nudge. Yeah, absolutely. yeah it's um you know It's very very difficult for a seven-year-old to get hold of some heroin um big because we've we've made the decision as a society that's that's not a good thing. that's not a good Do you think it's good to remove that freedom?
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah? well yeah yeah like maybe maybe we should Maybe we should open you know for politicians ah kind of philosophy or higher cognitive skill therapy.
00:53:45
Speaker
anyway I think that the thing about choice, I mean, you've raised that in ah in a very, very interesting way, Richard, and I would agree with that too. The other thing i I want to say about choice is, listeners will know I'm i'm very polite and British and diplomatic and actually like this this form of activism works quite well for me, kind of a podcast, because it's reasonably unlikely that someone's going to shout back at me.
00:54:10
Speaker
But actually what I'm really wanting to shout at anybody who's talking about freedom of choice is, that's nonsense. You're not removing people's freedom of choice from by putting a plant-based option at the top of a menu in bold.
00:54:25
Speaker
Like, sit so long as there are still animal products on the menu, you're not removing freedom of choice there at all. And that that's not what Zach Polanski is saying. He's saying, no, keep it on the menu. and And most of us, if not all of us listening to this conversation would be saying, well, actually, I'd much prefer it if there wasn't the choice for people to have animal products. But he's not even saying that.
00:54:49
Speaker
you know? the um and you know, both Richard and myself have, have ran um vegan cafes before. and And sometimes people would say, Oh, you know, actually my family, we're going to go out to the, the Omni restaurant, but you know, because everyone's got something that they can eat there.
00:55:06
Speaker
Well, everyone's got something they can eat at the vegan place. What are you talking about? Like, what's this freedom of choice thing that like people are going to drop down dead. I mean, even, even,
00:55:19
Speaker
you know, free school meals, even if you said all schools have to be plant-based, no one's saying that you have to eat plant-based at home.
00:55:30
Speaker
You know, what's wrong with saying, well, one for one meal of the day, the state provided meal is going to be one has the least impact on the planet, the least impact on your health ever.
00:55:41
Speaker
and And, you know, unless it's, you know, Oreo donuts that are being served up with a pint of Guinness and the least impact on sentient creatures. Like that's going to be the plant. That's going to be the state provided meal of the day.
00:55:55
Speaker
But but we're not going to make you do do so at home. yeah Well said, Anne. Well said, exactly. And all of that can be backed up with real light. We don't even have to go into the really important matter of animal lives. We don't have to talk about that.
00:56:12
Speaker
We can talk about the environmental impact. We can talk about the health benefits. It could be really quantifiably put as here's what the state is providing.
00:56:23
Speaker
And then when you go home, you do whatever. It's only a hair's breadth away from the current like, well, let's not just serve chips for every meal, you know, which in my day, being a kid of the 1980s, it was chips for every meal. And now as an adult, I go and I.
00:56:39
Speaker
do work within schools, and I see the food provided, and there's a greater awareness of let's be healthy. So this is just taking it to the natural conclusion, the healthiest, as the vegconomist has proven with their studies that we're all so harsh on, that let's bring them back, bring them back, bring them back. It is the healthiest option. Yeah, definitely.
00:57:05
Speaker
There is some power, though, in putting... things as a default option. i think it's a big step forward. I remember the days when pension schemes were not the default option. Not many people were ah engaging in having a a private pension. Now it's the default option. It's the easy option and people go with what's default.
00:57:25
Speaker
So you could argue the same with many, many things. Organ donor, many things. When you do something that some things, the default option, you're really helping changing the world because that's why it's the default option. Well, we did a previous podcast on the vegan movie Christ Spiracy. And in that ah ah film, there was a lot of talk about businesses and a lot of talk about who makes money from certain things. i mean, we touched on it earlier on in this podcast. And again, like, just can't help with my conspiracy hat on to be like, well, that's the real reason, isn't it? Why schools...
00:58:07
Speaker
don't offer just vegan things it's because of business it's because relationships in in who's getting whose money from whom that's what it's about that's what it's about it's not about what's in the best interest of the children. It's about what's in the best interest of, not even of economy, I was going say economy, but what's in the best interest of the rich and keeping the rich rich. That's what it's about.
00:58:34
Speaker
Off my soapbox. There we go. I was going to say, if if, If that makes you a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, then um then pass me a roll of kitchen foil myself because i'll I think exactly the same.
00:58:49
Speaker
Anyway, I guess if you are still listening to our crackpot theories and opinions and our opinions this podcast, there's a very good chance that you have enjoyed it If you've already left us a review, then in the next little jingle, just bask and enjoy ah Kate and Carlos's voice. But if you've not let not yet left us a review or shared us to somebody, here's a little nudge from us to do so because it would really make our day.
00:59:18
Speaker
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00:59:43
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. Thank you so very much, everyone who's been listening. I always enjoy recording these and I hope that you've got something out of listening to it.
01:00:02
Speaker
ah Heads up that the next Enough of the Falafel episode will be our Vegan Talk episode coming out on Thursday, the 3rd of April. I'm on that one with Anthony and Julie and we discuss should vegans always tell people for how long they have been vegan.
01:00:24
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Anthony and Dominic for your contributions and may I say your inspiration. Thanks again everyone for listening.
01:00:37
Speaker
I've been Richard and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:00:48
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:01:03
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:01:29
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:01:50
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from