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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - South Dakota & Utah
58 Plays2 years ago
Well we are getting to the last few miles of this United States Road Trip! I hope you have enjoyed these, and cannot wait to branch out. These two states have some gruesome ordeals we are going to talk about - so as always, listener beware!
Utah (2.01 - 49.34) Lisa is taking us through the brutal, unbelievably cruel story of Christina Harms. What this woman was forced to endure is beyond reproach & the sentence does NOT fit the crime.
South Dakota (49.34 - 1.50.00) Faith is taking us through the story of Chester Poage. We will hit on bullies, *suicide (TW), the care needed when choosing friends, and the upmost importance of listening to your gut.
As always - we hope you enjoy our retelling of these stories and we are so thankful for you spending some of your week with us! We love hearing from you, so feel free to send us a note at [email protected]
Also, tid-bits, photos & random content are left on our socials, so come join the crazy!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Challenges
00:00:06
Speaker
Well, hello again, you lovely people. Hey, hey. Welcome to another episode of Twisted Tales with Faith and Lisa. We're back. We're back. We are daylight, dollar short, but we're back.
00:00:22
Speaker
You know what? I don't even care to explain it to you people anymore. Life. OK, here's the deal. That's just it. It's like really hard to be consistent because that was one of the podcasts I listened to gruesome say the biggest thing on doing a podcast is be consistent. So we are consistent. Then I had the bright idea to do two episodes a week. Less consistent. Now I've decided it's OK because we are consistently inconsistent. There you go. Therefore consistent. Yes. So anyway. All right. You ready to.
Background Noises and Storytelling Order
00:00:52
Speaker
Rock, paper, scissors it. I'm going to go ahead and shout out a warning to anyone listening right now that the children are in the backyard and they've been doing a lot of screaming thus far. So they're not dying. They're just they're just weird. Insolent. And we told them to be quiet. So influence. I got nothing. Frankie's distracting everyone right now. There you go. They can get away with it because Uncle Frankie's talking to them. That's right. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.
00:01:17
Speaker
Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Ha ha! Two out of two, you lose. For some I've lost in like three weeks. In like two, but who's counting? God forbid. I can't say anything. I can't say anything without you correcting. You can, but I'm going to correct it because you're typically wrong. Wrong go. All right. So tonight I'm in Texas. No, you're not. You're in Utah. Oh, crap. I did the research for the wrong stay.
00:01:46
Speaker
At least. Yeah, you want to keep going. You call me out. You call it out. You picked a state that wasn't mine. At least I stick to my states. All right, fine. Yeah. All right. I still win, though. You do win. I make up for it. Shut up.
Christina Harms' Tragic Story
00:02:00
Speaker
All right. See you, Tom. Here's the deal. I am. I got stuck with Utah and I got stuck. Sorry. That's rude to anybody who may be from Utah. There was a lot of cases, a lot of things that I could go
00:02:16
Speaker
and just ramble on about for a really long time. Plenty of serial killer crap, plenty of unsolved mysteries, plenty of plenty of everything. I feel like there's a lot in Utah. Like I hear about Utah a lot. There was a lot to pick from. But I stumbled across one case and it literally like it hurt my feelings.
00:02:43
Speaker
And I only have like the one feeling. I was going to say that's a feat in itself. Go, Utah. A lot of cases like when we talk about certain things, you know, none of them are OK, right? Right. Some of them are like so widely known that it's easier to talk about. It's not that it wasn't devastating. It's just that we've heard so much about it. And we're desensitized. Yeah. How many years have we watched horrific crime shows, whether it's true or, you know, fictional crime?
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. But I came across this name and I started digging into the story and the more I tried to find about the story and the more I tried to find about this young lady's past, I just felt like there was just no real information. And so I kind of took what I had because I felt like the story needs to be told. I've got some, you know, different
00:03:37
Speaker
like news stories in different places that I can pull information from. And so that's kind of what I'm going to jump around to. And so I'll cite, you know, where I'm at at that moment when I'm giving off the quotes that I'm doing. And then I'm going to end it with some statistics. Oh my God, I actually said it right without slurring. That was nice. Okay. Because normally I'm like, okay. So.
00:04:03
Speaker
Tonight I am going to tell a story about Christina, who, Christina Harms. Harms. Harms with an S. Okay. And this occurred in Salt Lake City, Utah. So Christina Harms was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Her legal guardian. Well, okay, so before we even get going on that, her parents,
00:04:34
Speaker
Kept her as long as they could. Mom ended up dying, I believe, of cancer. And so there was a young woman by the name of Sheppard. She was 29 at the time. And after mom and dad were gone and deceased, she was like, oh.
00:04:54
Speaker
You know, I can do this. I've got it. I'm going to school for nursing the whole nine. And so she wound up taking custody of Christina. And I guess she was there for a couple of years. Do we know where she came from? Like how she knew? Did she know? OK, there you go. Cousin, I'm so sorry. No, you're fine. Like I said, I'm doing a lot of bouncing around because it's
00:05:23
Speaker
Just it's I don't know. I don't even know. It's just so crappy to even talk to. So. I don't even know how to start without just getting into this into the like what happened to Christina. Well, because I feel like I should have had more information. All right. So here's the deal. This is a quote from Desert Dotcom, and this was direct quotes from
00:05:53
Speaker
some of the people that knew Christina and knew Christina's parents. So Salt Lake City, and this is a direct quote from this website, those who loved Christina slash Nina is what they called her arms, drove 1500 miles from their homes in Minnesota and South Dakota to stand in front of a judge on Friday to tell them about the person that they had lost.
00:06:19
Speaker
They wore t-shirts printed with harm smiling face. They carried a cardboard display covered in pictures of the woman throughout her life. Nina wanted to go to college. She wanted more kids. She was very loving, Marlee Nelson said. She loved her daughter more than anything. And Nina was the most loving person you'll ever meet. Who's Nina? This is a person that did not have custody after
00:06:48
Speaker
Christine's mom, Christine's mom passed away. And this is somebody who offered to help multiple times. I'm gonna go a little further. Harms was 22 when she passed on, on March 25th, 2011. Oh, let's see here.
00:07:17
Speaker
So this young lady from all accounts, from what I read, was born of fetal alcohol syndrome, like I said. She had like the mind capacity between 8 and 12 year old. Ms. Nelson, who was the one that I just quoted from, said it was more like a 16 year old.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, my cousin has FAS. Okay. It's my dad's best friend that has been in my life my whole life. So I've always called him Uncle Chester. So then I need to ask you a question then because they, they are, they've said, and it's a part of this that I really wanted to bring up and have a discussion about because I don't know a whole lot about fetal alcohol syndrome. I know that some cases can be super, super severe.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yes, it can vary. The biggest problem is the bulk of harm from what I understand and what I remember in nursing school in a while. But the bulk of the harm when you're drinking alcohol while pregnant is typically before you even know you're pregnant. Yeah.
Impact of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome on Christina
00:08:23
Speaker
Like I remember when I was pregnant with Bella, I did not know I was pregnant. Right. And I went on a cruise. Yeah. And I imbibed.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, had some libations, fell down a few sets of stairs because it was slippery and I'm clumsy. Now, just for anybody that knows this, like.
00:08:40
Speaker
for faith to say I didn't know that I was pregnant is it's not some stupid loosely like no you you don't even understand that's like 30 years of hormone yes was finally told and her missing her period was not unusual yeah so it for her to say I didn't realize I was pregnant oh heck like I get her saying I didn't realize I was pregnant like
00:09:04
Speaker
But I know just to throw that out there, I wasn't like slobbering drunk or anything like I had a few drinks, but that was the biggest thing when I found out was, oh, my gosh, I drink while pregnant early.
00:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, like I freaked out. Yeah, perfectly fine child But it is there is a degree like it's it's almost for fas. It's like a spectrum Almost like the autism spectrum. You can be more impaired or less impaired a lot of their physical characteristics are not like mirror images, but like a slight variation of Trisomy 21 Down syndrome. Yes
00:09:44
Speaker
Excuse me, but my cousin Keith had it.
00:09:50
Speaker
Chester, my uncle Chester and his wife adopted all three of their children. And so they adopted Keith when he was like 16 to 16 months to two years. He couldn't even talk yet. Like he had bald spot in the back. He was very abused and neglected on top of. I was just going to say that's not fetal alcohol syndrome. That's literally them not hearing. No, he has FAS. And so his his is very like if you put him
00:10:18
Speaker
and a down syndrome person together like it's very similar and the just it's the delay mentally the speech a little bit and um the facial features because they've got the eye that the where the top of their eyelids which you can't see me but I'm pointing kind of fold over a little yeah um so it's cute so that's why I say it's not a mirror image but it's similar I ask that because
00:10:45
Speaker
During my research, I found out that she had a two year old daughter. And so I didn't know like what the severity of her case was. Yeah. And you know what I mean? Like there's that couple in our church. Well, that's not that's not my question. You're looking at a young lady right now who's under care. Yes. OK.
00:11:06
Speaker
And she needs constant supervision. Yeah. Keith lives in a group home. Yeah. Cause he got a little violent and my aunt is a very teeny tiny little lady. Keith got too big and he was pushing her. Yeah. No, it was, it wasn't safe. They had another child in the home. So he was out of high school, but they had to send him, which it's a great group home. He loves it. They do all these outings. He does special Olympics, like whole gamut that, I mean, they have visitation. They still see him, but you can win. I can always assume that.
00:11:36
Speaker
you know, and the way they talk about the daughter was, you know, that was the love of her life. That was, you know, and so, but when they sit here and they said that she had the mental capacity between an eight and a 12 year old, I'm sitting here wondering to myself, how'd she get that daughter? Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so that's, you know, maybe neither here nor there. I tried to research some of that. I came up empty handed every single time. And, uh,
00:12:04
Speaker
So anyways, that again kind of took me off topic. But I am not an FAS professional. So a lot of that was just what I remember. Sorry if you know more about it. And I was incorrect on any point. So Nelson with Tonya Wilperich. I didn't say that right. They were both friends of Harms and her family. OK, so Harms was more like a 16 year old loving happy. They struggled to reconcile or
00:12:33
Speaker
just figure out really like what happened, like why anything like that could possibly be real life, honestly. And so- Are you gonna tell us what happened? No, I'm gonna keep going with this for a few minutes. Okay, because that's not frustrating. So both Nelson and Wilpritcht met Harms in Aberdeen, South Dakota, where Harms' mother, yep, was dying of cancer.
00:13:01
Speaker
Nelson said that she offered to take care of harms, but harms his mother and trusted her daughter to Shepherd, a cousin who was studying to be a nurse. Now, I'm going to stop there. You have the last wish of a dying woman. This chick is in nursing school. Yeah. And you know, be on the shadow of a doubt, who's more qualified right now to take care of somebody who's disabled, somebody who knows medical, whatever, right? Not someone in nursing school. They have no lives and no free time. I'm just going to throw that out there.
00:13:30
Speaker
But here's the deal, this chick offered to do it. Yeah. OK, so she's I got this, you know, under wraps, everything's good. So let's jump back off into my other my other dealio here. So this is kind of where I'm going to jump into a little bit of some of the testimonies that were given at the trial. Then I'm going to tell you what happened.
00:13:59
Speaker
Um. And I only want to do this first because it was for me sickening, honestly. So Shepherd had two kids. Now this was the woman that was taking care of harms. Yeah, her cousin, her cousin. Gotcha. So I am taking quotes from ABC for dot com. So let's see.
00:14:27
Speaker
I'm sorry, guys, I got an itch and I had to put my phone down where I was reading. My apologies. Multitasking. I know it is terrible. So as you guys can already assume, Christina passed away. She did not pass away. She was murdered, I'm assuming. Yeah, pretty pretty steady passing away. I think like her mother passed away from cancer. So during the trial, Shepherd's daughter testified about harm's
Justice System Failings in Christina's Case
00:14:55
Speaker
isolation, which is Christina.
00:14:58
Speaker
At a birthday party at the home, Harms didn't join them. So this is direct quotes again from abc4.com. Daughter quotes. She was in the laundry room. Prosecutor. Why was she in the laundry room? Child. Again, it was one of the privileges. When asked about the room where Harms would be kept, the daughter again explained what she saw. Daughter. Well, I don't think you would consider her a room. Prosecutor.
00:15:26
Speaker
What was it? Child. It was a closet. Like Harry Potter under the stairs? No, worse. He at least had it covered in a bed. This was a closet with a crap. Yeah. So at this point, these kids, I think I think it said it was like five and nine. Don't quote me on that. But I have jumped through so many different like things at this point where get golly Miss Molly.
00:15:53
Speaker
it was like I said I I've literally I'm trying to get a half an hour's worth of such little details possible because it was not a widely known thing which why it is that it is someone who is mentally impaired which is why I kind of got driven to do this because she needs a voice everyone else ignored it my phone's being stupid so alright um
00:16:24
Speaker
So, okay, here's the deal. From what I gathered throughout the entire thing was the cops were called because of a homicide. I don't know if it was them themselves that called and said that she had overdosed on some like, you know, pain kind of medication or whatnot. But what they found was like just jacked up, like,
00:16:55
Speaker
There was the closet that the kid spoke of. It was her room. That was covered in, you know, feces, pee. Pause. Pause. Didn't she have a two year old daughter?
00:17:11
Speaker
Did she live in the closet with her? No. Because she was normal, so she got a regular room with the family. That's kind of what I'm thinking, yeah. Crap. Absolute horse crap. Continue. I'm going to jump back to ABC. So what you want to bet the only reason Shepherd took her was to get the cute little girl.
00:17:27
Speaker
So this is directly from no, I don't think it's that ABC or dot com 2011 harms was found dead in her home police to set police said she was tortured and at times tied to a pole crucifixion style What that was the closet she spent most of her time Cassandra Shepherd was her legal guardian. That was the 29 year old that was talking about earlier She was eventually charged and convicted of abuse of a vulnerable adult and manslaughter now. I'm gonna stop here
00:17:57
Speaker
I've known people, I, okay, I know one guy who got manslaughter. It was literally, it was a car accident and he still got the manslaughter charge because she passed.
00:18:11
Speaker
Is this this was the person I know who you're talking? Yeah, it was an accident, but he was seriously an accident. But he was speeding way. She blew. She blew a stop sign. He hit her because he was going so fast. And but she did pass away now in front of her two children. Yeah. And so but I'm going to say and I'm going to say this kid that I'm talking about right now, it was a legit. And lands the brakes on so hard.
00:18:35
Speaker
that he broke his angle and leg in like three different places. I know, I forgot about that. Like he legitimately was trying to stop. Oh yeah, he was like standing on the brakes, he said. But we're sitting here and we're having this conversation with everything that I just told you about and it was cruelty to, hold on, let me go, let me bring this back. So she was found crucifixion style inside a closet. Yeah, that sounds like an accident already. And so the charges brought against this young woman
00:19:05
Speaker
were abuse of a vulnerable adult and manslaughter. So when I think manslaughter, I think unintentional. Yeah, because if I'm going to walk upon a scene and I'm finding somebody that's tied to a fracking pole, that's not an accident all over them. That's not that's not an accident. All right.
00:19:24
Speaker
So now it's hard to get heated because I knew I was gonna have to get to this point at some point Which is why I was trying to do all like the back So what I was trying to like convey before where there were two other people willing Okay, I'm willing it said to Cassandra I Can help Utah you suck you want to know the definition of manslaughter is because I googled it go for it the crime of killing a human being without malice and
00:19:50
Speaker
That's not true. A forethought, not true. Are otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder? All not true. That are tied in a closet they may relive in. While I continue on with this story, I want you to look up the other charge that was
00:20:09
Speaker
abuse of a vulnerable adult and see what that carries, okay? So I'm gonna flip this over here real quick and I am gonna continue on. So the home actually belonged to Shepherd's mom and that was Sherry Becker. So who was also convicted of aggravated abuse and sent to prison. Now, there were three full grown adults and
00:20:38
Speaker
Two, no, okay, I'm sorry, three technically children. Two were shepherds.
00:20:43
Speaker
And one was Christina's harms herself. OK, how's she going to harm herself? Tied up Christina harms her last name. Sorry. Sorry. You're fine. So I know you can see it. I can see it. OK, I'm done. Sorry. So there was a grown man and two grown women living in this house who just let it happen. Why? So the autopsy of Christina showed that harms died from dehydration, heavy doses of narcotics that were fatal.
00:21:12
Speaker
And so Shepard is now on trial, this, that, whatever. OK, pause. Now, did they take the baby from her? I need to know that now.
00:21:20
Speaker
that Christina's child that Shepard still had. Did they take the baby from her? All of the kids are in custody of the state. Good. I mean, not good. I don't know where they're at now. Again, there's no information. Well, there shouldn't be, but I just want to make sure she has a story that I've not said yet. Oh, is it going to. Am I done? Because it. This whole thing is just absolute garbage, OK? They're OK.
00:21:47
Speaker
So they said that it was torture, right?
Crimes Against Disabled Individuals
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, 100 percent, 100 percent. But when they found her, she had a pepper seed shoved under her eyelid like a hot pepper, like a hot pepper seed. And it was shoved under her eyelid that would hurt her hands were bound so she couldn't take it out. She couldn't take as someone who wears contacts.
00:22:13
Speaker
It burns like the fire of hell if anything gets in your eye. Like I've cut jalapenos before in the morning, washed my hands gone all day, took my contacts out at night, and it was like I put a burning hot flame in my eyeball. And there's no relief. Why would you do that to a person? Like, what'd she do to you? You didn't have to keep her. Other people wanted to help her.
00:22:41
Speaker
So why not let the people that want to help help but then do like that makes no logical sense to me. Not so emergency officials found harms March 25th. This is again back jumping to desert dot com on March 25th. I wonder if they got a check. What I wonder if they were taken like if she got a disability check.
00:23:04
Speaker
Oh, I have no idea. And that's why they kept because it doesn't make sense. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. But logically, you've got other people saying we will help. We'll take care of her. You're in nursing school. You've got two kids. We'll take her and her daughter. Why force it unless you're getting something? I mean, the only other thing that I possibly think of is they didn't want to hand her off to somebody else who would see the woods. But why get to that point? We're good. We're good. Right. Unless she got like a disability check and they were pocketing that.
00:23:34
Speaker
Now, guys, I'm gonna go ahead and just throw it out there. Working with disabled people is not easy. It's hard. It takes a special, special kind of person to be able to do what they do. I've got my aunt, I've got a cousin that works in it. My cousin straight up told me she works with mostly autism. Well, she'll come home just beaten and battered and bruised and you have to take it. They literally can't control it. Yeah, they don't know any better.
00:24:03
Speaker
I like the more I sit here and I think about this. What year are we in? It was 2011. So they knew better. Yeah. There was all. Utah knew better. Scientific. Yeah. So I was right. All right. So it was ages five and nine that that were living in the house and she was survived by her too. So when they found her, she had ligature marks on her ankles. She had plastic zip ties.
00:24:29
Speaker
was severe bruising on her thighs, head, bloodshot eyes. Again, this is the pepper seed in one of her eyelids. And her hands were completely covered with bandages, which would have prevented her from getting the pepper seed out of her eye. Inside the closet, investigators found a metal clothes bar. So like one of those. Yeah, like a metal bar. Yeah, I keep pulling the microphone away from me again.
00:24:59
Speaker
There's no clothes hanging from it. Instead, they found plastic zip ties on each end of the bar where they had been cut. So that's how they connected the dots where she was hanging like crucifixion. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's no intent that at all. Our maliciousness. The ties were secured far apart and movable in position.
00:25:23
Speaker
That's planning. Like you planned your torture. Yeah. When officers open the closet door, high pitched alarms sounded. Oh, so she couldn't even leave. On the floor of the closet, police discovered blood and urine stained pieces of cardboard. Like a dog. Police found uncut zip ties, clear plastic tape, disposable plastic drop cloths, cleaning supplies, air fresheners, including several deodorizers in the closet.
00:25:52
Speaker
while officers were investigating the incident, which originally called as a possible overdose, like I said earlier. Yeah, it sounds like accidental. Sherry Beckering commented to one of the officers how difficult harms had been lately. Well, I'd be difficult too if you locked me in a closet and tied me up with peppers in my eyes. But again, you're looking at somebody with a mental capability of an eight and 12 year old that's a full grown adult. That is not easy.
00:26:20
Speaker
It's not and you need to learn how to step back. OK, like again, we I know all about.
00:26:28
Speaker
doing doing this kind of stuff every day. And guys, let me just tell you something. It does get frustrating. Yeah. But good God, I would never because we've talked about my aunt being mentally handicapped. Yeah. You know, when we we know that she knows better. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's we we treat her like a person because we know. Thank you. Because because she is. And a lot of people don't view it that way. OK.
00:26:51
Speaker
And there are times we're like, dude, what? Why did you? I don't know. Like, we know why you did. Yeah, you know, I'm not an idiot. We're not falling for that. To say like frustration hits, frustration does hit, but Laura kind of walk away. It's the same thing with people that get fresh off with their babies crying. And you're like, oh, I'm going to shake them. Yeah. No, it's like I remember. I remember like the first week or two auntie moved in here.
00:27:17
Speaker
And we were over here one night and I was sitting closer to Auntie and it was getting very close to bedtime. Yes, I did not know that. I didn't. We don't have bedtimes in my house. And she said, you know, routine. Yeah. But in her little sing song voice, because it's her first week or two living here when she had to move.
00:27:39
Speaker
Hey, I'm hungry. So I was like, OK, well, I'll go tell Carol. She was like, yeah, yeah, tell Carol I'm hungry. Oh, yeah. So I went and told your mom and she just gave me this look like I give my child when she's in trouble or I catch her. Yeah. And I was like, what? And she goes, she's not hungry. She knows it's bedtime and she doesn't want to go upstairs. And I was like, what? And in my head, I'm thinking.
00:28:03
Speaker
Carol, you have no idea. So I walked back to Lee and and I was like, Auntie, Carol says it's about bedtime. And the look she gave me was like the kid that got their head like she gave me this smile. She was like, OK. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you. Oh, yeah, did you hear there's like she was giving me no.
00:28:26
Speaker
And I'm gonna tell you what, after she went to bed, I told her mom, I was like, I really thought you were being kind of mean, not giving her food. Like I'll go buy food if you're that hard up. And she goes, no, she just didn't want to go to bed because you guys were here. I said, yeah, I got that. And she goes, she does things all the time. You just got to keep the routine. But I was like, oh my gosh, that is the primo prime 110%.
00:28:48
Speaker
you have to keep to the routine. And when it comes to people with special needs, even regular adults, routine is how you survive. My child. Yeah. You know how I know when she's tired?
00:28:58
Speaker
She, no, she starts, she starts talking like she's got a war on silence that she is going to win and she just keeps talking. And then she'll be like, I'm thirsty. I'm hungry. And she just keeps talking. And I'll look at Frankie or Frankie will look at me every time. And one of us will say T I R E D and we'll just say, we'll lay there for a minute. And within five minutes she's out, but it's that keep myself awake. Keep myself awake. When, when he's tired, the world is out to get him.
00:29:24
Speaker
That's that's his. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it's it's for Dean. Like I said, these people there, there's a plethora of options out there, especially back then. And you had people saying we will take her. We'll help. We'll do what we got to do. Yeah.
00:29:40
Speaker
So again, they showed up possible overdose. Stupid granny makes the comment about how difficult she had been lately. Then let the other people that wanted her have her. So
Moral Issues in Disability and Elderly Care
00:29:51
Speaker
the family also said harms had never been taken to the doctor while living in Utah. So we're looking at two years and this woman never had blood work. She no, no, they can't bring her to the doctor. They're torturing her slowly to death. Yeah.
00:30:06
Speaker
I'm I'm I'm I've got a lot of feelings, which is not unusual for me, but I'm highly like I want to punch you.
00:30:14
Speaker
I'm sorry. I'm really. That's why I went with the story. And I know it took me a minute to kind of get where I was trying to go. And that's only because there were so many thoughts in my head at that point. I don't even know where to start. And so when we did the rock, paper, scissors and I lost, I was very upset because I thought at least maybe I'd have another, you know, two and a half hours to figure out, figure out where what I was going to start my story. But now that we're well into it, you can see how hard this was to try and a half hours. I don't talk that much.
00:30:43
Speaker
But you can see now, like normally we can start out with, you know, like in background or you can't suspect that background. There's there's none of there's none of that. No, I think you did a good job presenting it because you presented it as they found it. Gosh, what a piece of crap. I'm going to read just a little bit more. Utah State Medical examiners office reported that when they the bandage were removed from harm's hands.
00:31:10
Speaker
During the autopsy, they found markings consistent with the bandages being placed tightly for an extended period of time, including multiple lesions and skin falling off. Harm's body had bruises consistent with chronic physical abuse.
00:31:29
Speaker
Harms suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome, was unable to completely care for herself. Shepherd and Harms lived in Aberdeen, South Carolina. Police said they had only lived in Kerns since January, which is, we talk. The story was broke by whoever else, whatever, it doesn't even matter. So again, you've got all these family members, these friends, and they're just like, we don't understand, we don't get it.
00:31:54
Speaker
No, we said so the center is working with other add add just add the advocacy. Thank you. Groups who investigate to quote shed light on the circumstances surrounding harm's death in an effort to prevent the abuse from reoccurring. So.
00:32:20
Speaker
quote, we try to be a voice for those who don't have a voice. And I'm not even going to try to say that name because it's not worth it. But they were new to Utah, right?
00:32:28
Speaker
So they didn't, it's not like if, okay, for instance, if they had lived in Utah all their life, like her mom and dad did, they died there, the cousin lived there, just changed streets. Like your aunt, she lived next door for years, came over here. If something was hinky, people around would notice because they knew routines or schedules and they knew, she moved to Utah. So the fact that she didn't show up for regular doctor's appointments, the doctors didn't catch it because it wasn't a patient. Do you know what I mean?
00:32:58
Speaker
like so a lot of the checks and balances didn't apply because it was a brand new state right but at the same time like you need to hold yourself
00:33:08
Speaker
No, no, there is I'm talking about all the checks and balances for People that need assistance That wasn't there in this case because they just moved to a new state There is absolutely not a single thing our excuse for those three adults that lived in that house that did this to her I hope they burn and rot
00:33:33
Speaker
So, Dale, which was the stepdad, 54, was sentenced to 15 years in prison. 15 years? Last year. Which was, who knows? I don't even know. Sherry, which was the stepmom, who was 52, was sentenced to five years. Did you? That's it? Yep. She was the one that was withered the most, I'm sure, because the other one was at school.
00:33:59
Speaker
I hope whatever prison system they're in knows their crimes. That's all I'm going to say there. So the people that went to advocate for Christina said that Cassandra, which was the main caregiver, deserved life in prison.
00:34:24
Speaker
And that is she deserves life in a pit. She got. For one offense. Which wasn't even manslaughter, manslaughter only carried like 15 something stupid years. OK, it wasn't manslaughter. It was a malicious forethought torture to death. The adult abuse on somebody that was disabled carried like five to 100 years. Give her 100. Well, she's already up for parole. And she's so sorry for all the things that she did and.
00:34:54
Speaker
You know they find turn letter out if I could turn back time I would never I would have sought help I'd have done this you know And I know you were sitting there giving your case, but you know what there's you were offered help Like Google it she was offered other people said she declined help No because she's a sick individual and wanted to torture I feel the same way
00:35:22
Speaker
I guess for anyone that I would consider vulnerable. So that's why I get so heated over kids cases. And now even more so, because again, I've got history with somebody who is disabled, that there's a line as a human that you don't, does that make you feel good? Yeah. I don't get it. No. Anyone who can sit and listen, even if the kid has call
00:35:52
Speaker
And they cry 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Ask your neighbor to stand there for 10 minutes while you walk away. Yeah. Do anything. Do anything is better than picking your kid up and shaking it. Anything is better than than putting a grown woman tied crucifix style to a freaking metal bar and sticking her in a closet. Clearly, something was wrong with you when you were born. And let's release that back out into the public.
00:36:22
Speaker
Clearly, something's wrong with you. A lot's wrong with you. So, before I end the rest of it, and I'm going to make sure the kids are away before I start giving statistics. Okay. So,
Chester Poage's Betrayal and Murder
00:36:36
Speaker
I looked this up on, this is mass.gov.
00:36:41
Speaker
and these are statistics I think that were done in 2019. So persons with disabilities were victims of approximately 47,000 rapes, 49,000 robberies, and 114,000 aggressive assaults, and 476,000 simple assaults. Nearly one in five violent crime victims with disabilities believe that they became the victim because of their disability.
00:37:09
Speaker
age-adjusted rates of non-fatal violent crimes against persons with disabilities is 1.5 times higher than the rate of person without disabilities. Females with disabilities had a higher victimization rate than males with disabilities. Males are a higher rate than females among those without a disability. Again, that's just what's reported though.
00:37:32
Speaker
Persons with a cognitive function disability have a higher risk of violent victimization than persons with any other type of disability So basically like if you have any kind of a brain damage
00:37:44
Speaker
you're more likely to be abused. Persons with more than one type of disability accounted for 56% of violent crime victimization against those with disabilities. And this was Harrow E. Ph.D., Rand M. Criminal, I'm sorry, crimes against people with disabilities, 2007 Bureau of Justice Statistics from 2009.
00:38:12
Speaker
And then I'm going to do one more deal. Nearly one in five, nearly one in five people in the US have a disability. According to the comprehensive census bureau report, approximately 56.7 million people, which is 18.7% of the population living in the United States had some kind of a disability in 2010, 68%.
00:38:37
Speaker
reported that the disability was severe. So when you sit back and you start looking at those statistics, right? Like where do you even start? You have a 3% sexual abuse study in 2000, 5 million crimes committed against persons with developmental disabilities, 1.4 million children abused in cases.
00:39:06
Speaker
Like I could keep going on. I literally, this is 90% of people, both male and female, develop disability will experience sexual abuse at some point in their lives. Because they think that they're easy targets and they can get away with it. 3% of sexual abuse victims involving people with any kind of developmental disability will actually be reported.
00:39:34
Speaker
Like, guys, I mean, go on this, it's mass.gov, and you can just look up, like, statistics on crimes against the disabled. And there are so, I mean, I've got like three or four different reference sites that I could cite from. There was one that kind of blew me away, and then let me just see if I can...
00:39:57
Speaker
Give me two seconds, Faith. Persons with disabilities were victims of 26% of all non-fatal crime. Accounting for 12% of the population. So in other words, the majority or a pretty strong majority of people with disabilities suffer more than people without.
00:40:18
Speaker
Well, yeah, because they find them easy targets because they do know. Yeah. And because they want to please people. It's just like your story in Alaska. Yep. That girl that had a mental disability and she just wanted to please people. So she went along and they killed her. Anyways, like I said, I could keep going on and on with this. The statistics are. They blow my mind.
00:40:44
Speaker
But I don't want to talk about it anymore. I can just say, like, do better. We're not even just that. Like, how many people do you know whose grandparents' parents are in a home?
00:41:00
Speaker
And you always have that, that nagging thought in the back of your mind, like something's not right. No homes. I don't like, I do not like nursing. I know they're essential, but they freak me out. Well, I'm going to tell you why. Here's the deal. You're, you're paying a bunch of people that don't belong there who don't get paid enough to do what they do, who get overwhelmed. They get frustrated and they don't want to deal with it. And so yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
Anger comes out and they take it out on people that are abused with dementia who can't even handle life in general. They don't know who they are. They don't know where they are. And it's so when I was in nursing school, I worked at a local hospital here and I was a nursing aide and I'd also do sitters sometimes like you had a suicide watch or you had someone
00:41:51
Speaker
that had like they called it the green mile in the ER where homeless people are mentally disabled people that they didn't know what was going on. They put them on the green mile because they still have any information and they have to be watched. So literally I would sit there. And like even when I was in a one on one room with someone for just a 12 hour shift, like just watching them by the end of the shift, like I have a headache.
00:42:17
Speaker
I mean, my eyes hurt like I'm mentally drained and it was overnight. So they would sleep some. But it was so much because it was just constant like verbal abuse for the most part. Yeah. But when I was and that was just a one on one when I was like in a patient was in a room with one patient when I had to sit on the green mile where you would have three to five
00:42:42
Speaker
It was pure. Like I, I needed an entire day to decompress. Like I couldn't, I could not function. I could not go do anything because it took so long because number one, you can't like legitimately, you can't take your eyes off them for a second because they're on the green mile because they're a risk to themselves or others. And like, I remember one night there was a vet that had substance abuse and she had, she had gotten in a wreck or something and had some mental impairment.
00:43:11
Speaker
She's literally jumping on top of the cot, like stomping in place, saying the Pledge of Allegiance, like teetering over, had to catch her. She was a tiny lady. The guy next to her is like throwing his urinal full of urine at the guy next to him. Like it was a circus. Yeah. And then they needed help. The medical field will sit there and throw three of these people at you. Yeah. There's not enough people that are willing to do that job.
00:43:37
Speaker
And you know everybody else makes too much money and they're not everybody's understaffed and it's I mean and your heart breaks from the at the same time. It's a lot and that was only one 12 hour shift like if you do that day in and day out if you can't handle it walk away.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Walk away. But these people are people. It's easy to say that. But I mean, people need jobs and people need to make money. Find a different one if it's not your cup of tea. But you know what, dude, come on. It takes a special person to work in nursing home. Our auntie, the different auntie, works at a local nursing home and she's great with those people. Yeah. I was going to say, too, I had I had a friend of mine that when my grandmother was in a nursing home for a really long time.
00:44:20
Speaker
The only thing that made me feel better is that I knew that one of my best friends worked there and had my grandmother's unit and it made me feel safe.
00:44:28
Speaker
That's what when my grandpa was at the nursing home here at the end because he had cancer, we moved him here to take care of him and we put him in the nursing home there at the end. And, um, I felt better because auntie, it was her nursing home. And so she checked in all the time and she's higher up at that nursing home. So everybody knew that that was like a relation, even though it's different sides of the family.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah, but it made me feel better that he wasn't going to be, you know, like, I mean, I say this in Jess, but an actual act like seriousness. Nobody's going to beat him with soap and a tube sock. Yeah. Like, well, my and the stories that I've heard are like, you know, we're just going to, you know, they'll ring the bell to go to the bathroom because they can still go to the bathroom. Yeah. Help.
00:45:13
Speaker
And they'll just leave them there, let them soil themselves and then eventually change the diaper. Yeah. And there's the bed sores are going to happen. Come on, man. Well, it's the day you don't want to do it. Yeah, exactly. It is dignity on their end. You think they can handle that themselves? No. And I'm going to be honest with you. Talk to any one of those freaking people.
00:45:30
Speaker
They would rather off they would better off they they would tell you I would rather be dead Yeah, because you're not treated like a person anymore You're literally like if you ring the bathroom and you need help going to the bathroom I understand that there are now there are certain times where you just can't get to it It happened to me several times like I could not get to them in time. I was in the middle of helping someone else Well, yeah, but again, they're under staff. I was gonna say a career where you're sure you it's it's always short staff, but
00:45:55
Speaker
If you just if it's consistently like you're just letting them sit there and swallow themself and then just letting them sit there until you feel like helping them. Like that has to be the most degrading. But it's the similar as tying her up in a closet, making her soil herself there. Like it is degrading. We don't treat animals that way. No. And what pisses me off, too, honestly, you'd be more than likely have a higher sense
00:46:25
Speaker
for doing that to a dog than you would a disabled human being. I see my soapbox. I'm going to stay away from my soapbox, but I see my soapbox. I'm sorry that I even chose to do this. I'm already heated. I don't even know what Faith's talking about tonight. I don't even want to freaking hear it because I'm just done. You know what? Because I love our listeners and I am an intelligent person and borderline psychic and I know what they're all thinking.
00:46:55
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, it was already gone. No, I was just I was not hitting a buck. I was hitting you for telling us this. Oh, I'm sorry. That was it. Just smacking you. OK, you're welcome. At least it wasn't the face this time. That's good. I like that. You're welcome. But yeah, guys, I hit her because I love you and I hated that story as much as you did.
00:47:15
Speaker
But while I hated that story is to say is I feel the same way about this one as I do, kids. It's uncomfortable. I'm sure you are all to talk about it. The fact that you have to search that hard for an article on her. Yeah. Is ridiculous. This happened in 2011. There was all kinds of social media. Where's the outcry? Where is people picketing these these trials saying it's not enough? You're sitting here and you're talking about uncomfortable. But then a lot of it, too, is turning a blind eye.
00:47:45
Speaker
But we don't we can't do that. People don't want to know we don't do that. Like you just said, we don't do that for animals. Here's the view. There are a lot of people in this world right now whose parents have to go to a nursing home. Yes. Because they cannot physically do it. Yeah, they can't. So, yeah, we're going to turn the blind out of this. We don't want to think that this actually happened to my mom and my dad. But you want to know you want to know who in nursing homes are always usually the best cared for.
00:48:12
Speaker
The patients whose family members show up for visits. Yeah. Like you don't stick to your loved one in a nursing home and don't show up again until you go to collect their possessions. Yeah. Those people. Yeah. Sure. Leave them in the bed. Who are they going to complain to? But the people whose kids are there like once a week, every holiday calling. How many reports go out?
00:48:32
Speaker
with the same deal. They are there all the time. They are there all the time. And then the parents are like, oh, you know, they did this. They slammed me down on the bed or whatever. And they're not believed. And even when when somebody goes to the to the higher ups and they're like, hey, this is what my my parents told us. Oh, well. She might have dreamed it. OK, there's always some kind of, you know, what you can do in that situation.
00:48:58
Speaker
go to Amazon and get you a nanny cam teddy bear, give your parents a nice little teddy bear, record it for a week and then soothe their butts. Yeah. Maybe then our show all over Facebook contact news. Do everything you got to do to show people what's happening there, because guess what? If it's happening to your loved one, it's happening to everybody else. They just might not know about it. Yep.
00:49:21
Speaker
Oh, I'm so mad. OK, I'm sorry. Are you done with this? I'm done. I am done. We'll move on to whatever state you chose to do this week. I hate you. It's South Dakota, you jerk. OK, so enough of that. We are going to South Dakota. Enough of that. Enough of that. All right. I am taking you to Spearfish, South Dakota.
00:49:46
Speaker
the name of the city. I wish. Oh, so we're not actually going spearfishing. No, no, no, spearfish. So in spearfish, South Dakota lived a nice small little family. David, the husband, Dottie, the mom and their two teenage children's Chester, the older brother, Samantha, the younger sister. They were normal middle class family, hard workers, attended church every weekend, kept to themselves for the most part, attended their farm, just average American
00:50:15
Speaker
family. Like many families, um, everything seemed to be going well, but like many families, you don't know underlying issues. It's always easier to look over and be like, Oh my gosh, they've got it all. And you just don't know what people are struggling with. I'm real big on that. I have like a quote that I like to use. I think I saw it as a meme one time.
00:50:35
Speaker
And it said, now, if only your life was as cool as you made it seem on Facebook. Yeah, right. Right. Lies. Yes. So that's what you know, this family had its underlying issues as well. Dottie and David's marriage was on increasingly shaky ground until 1996, when Dottie presented David with divorce papers and trigger warning to suicide.
00:51:04
Speaker
The BT dubs fast forward 30 seconds. Unfortunately, just a few days after served with these divorce papers, David killed himself. Wow. OK, leaving his wife and two young children behind. And while I'm sure.
00:51:23
Speaker
I have walked with a friend through the suicide of her grandmother, but it was the person who raised her, so essentially her mom. I've walked through that. I saw the way her grandfather handled it. I saw the way she handled it, all that stuff. So I've walked through that, and I'm sure each family member goes through dealing with suicide somewhat different to the kids.
00:51:52
Speaker
It is the loss of a parent. You know, I have to wonder, do you blame the mom a little because it's literally she served him with divorce papers and a few days later he kills himself. And on the flip side, well, Dottie, there's got to be guilt. There's, you know, you love that person as the father. So there's a lot of different feelings, probably anger. When people go through like a depressive state, people keep saying all the time, like, well,
00:52:17
Speaker
They seemed fine. And then the next day, like they killed themselves. Like you think of people like Robin Williams who had everything, you know, from Lincoln Park. Yeah. Everyone was like they were fine. Like they were fine, you know. Yeah. And I've heard stories of people being like joking around and having a good time. And then they go upstairs and killed themselves like.
00:52:38
Speaker
You just you really don't know what's going on in somebody else's mind unless they're willing to unveil. Yes. And we do not know. Well, they may. You may know somewhere, but I do not know if there was previous depression or anything else.
00:52:51
Speaker
Literally, she served him with divorce papers and like two to three days later did this. So anyway, so while this family is trying to deal with the internal turmoil of their father dying unexpectedly by his own hand, Chester, the son,
00:53:15
Speaker
had some external issues he had to deal with in this as well. Number one, Cheshire was bullied at school because kids suck. Bottom line, he's in high school. They cheat. I am going to go ahead and intervene super fast and say that I am on board with parents letting their kids know what a bully looks like if they decide to bully. Oh yeah.
00:53:38
Speaker
Like you want to see a bully, I'm going to show you how it's done. Oh, I can show you how it's done. So the kids at his school bullied him. They picked on him for multiple things. The fact that he had a funny name, Chester, they picked on it. It's an older name. My uncle Chester's Chester. So.
00:53:57
Speaker
Screw you guys the guy from Lincoln Park. Yeah, that's what when you said Chester. I was like whoa Yeah, they picked they bullied him for his appearance. He was 6 1 Very skinny bright red hair wore glasses His interests were playing the drums in the band woodworking electrical
00:54:18
Speaker
So kind of a nerdy kid, I guess. So they picked on him for that. That's like nerd. No, that's literally just a kid's hobby. Yeah. But they picked on him for all that. And then after his father killed himself, they chose to pick on him for that as well. Awesome. Like you're such a loser. Your dad had to kill himself. So that's what this kid is dealing with. Can I? OK, no, I'm not going to. Those kids need their butts kicked. Absolutely.
00:54:43
Speaker
So Chester was all around a good kid and he really just wanted to be accepted. Which kid in high school doesn't? Like whose goal is to be an outcast and everybody doesn't like them? Nobody. So when he finally graduates high school and he leaves to go to college in Kansas, he was afforded a fresh start and he took advantage of it. He majored in telecommunication technologies.
00:55:07
Speaker
and did really well. After two years into his education, he went to Denver to complete an internship. He did. That internship ended in December of 1999. Chester just decided he's halfway through. He just completed this gigantic internship. He's just going to take a semester off, spend time with his family, and work and save money.
00:55:33
Speaker
So that's what he did. He moved home to spearfish, moved back in with his mom and his sister. And while obviously this is not his like first choice to be an adult, move back in with mommy.
00:55:48
Speaker
It reduces his living expenses and he's working while he's there. So his plan is to save up enough money on this one semester off to go back to college and buy like a small condo off college campus and like really start his life, right? And the bright side, they weren't like rich, but they were well off middle class. So they had a nice house, nice things. So, you know, it's no hardship. Speaking from experience, it is no, I would move back in with my parents today if they would let me. It's a living babysitter.
00:56:18
Speaker
Someone does all the grocery shopping and half the time they cook. And if you leave your clothes in the dryer, she holds them. What? Who? No, I'm sign me up. Mom, I'm coming home. Anyway, I mean, I still live with my parents. That's not quite my scenario. So, you know, we all have our things. We do. I love my house. Yeah. I really do. That wasn't sarcasm. I know. Dottie, the mother said the next few months with Chester being home was just amazing. They talk, they laugh.
00:56:47
Speaker
They went on walks, they went on drives, they had dinner together. She got to read, because he left under such bad circumstances. His father's killed himself. He's an outcast. He's made fun of. He feels bad about himself. And he was a child. It is a different relationship you have. Now he's moved back. He's doing well. He's well-adjusted. And he's becoming on that cusp of adulthood. So she got to have more of a friendship relationship with him.
00:57:16
Speaker
And so they just enjoyed like it was an amazing few months for this family. So let's see here. Sorry, I got off on a tangent. We all do it. But with all the stresses Chester had when he lived there, with all that gone, they were like his sister, Samantha Chester and their mom, daddy really just got to bond as a family. I was just going to say like they felt in front of family. Yeah.
00:57:40
Speaker
And also on another bright side, Chester, because that had to be like a bad move for him mentally. Like you're going back to where you were tormented.
00:57:49
Speaker
What's this going to look like? Plus, you're moving back in with mommy, so who's going to have something to say? Not the case. He was actually able to make friends in this town. He ended up, it was three local boys, Elijah Page, Bradley Piper, and Daryl Hautly. The three boys lived together, but they kind of invited Chester along into their group. And they ended up hanging out, playing video games. They were a little bit wilder than Chester.
00:58:17
Speaker
But they also had different backgrounds. So Piper, Bradley Piper, who I'm just going to call Piper from now on, was the ringleader, quote unquote, of this little group. He's very charismatic, natural leader, but had a very rough upbringing. He was known to set fires, buildings, things, whatever.
00:58:37
Speaker
He was caught groping women while he was growing up. So like, just simple minded me, we go back to the not so recognized theory of the triad, is that what it was called? Yeah, the Mosley's, Mosley's triad, I believe. Yeah, but he, you know, just a little grab the butt walk off.
00:58:58
Speaker
He also got caught with a few small burglaries in his younger teenage years, nothing serious. The next one is Darrell Hautly was very likable.
00:59:11
Speaker
but also known to be very impressionable due to multiple abuses against him in younger years by his mother's different boyfriends. So we have a leader and some people are willing to be manipulated by said leader. It's just like this is what his mom was probably like, she's a little concerned just because of their backgrounds. Like these are what's known about them. How old was Chester at this point you said? 19-ish, 20-ish. So Elijah Page is the last one rounding up and he had the worst out upbringing of all the boys.
00:59:40
Speaker
Um, he was sexually abused when he was just two years old by a family member. His family member were known drifters and they would take refuge in different abandoned buildings across town until it was finally found out and the boy was taken and placed in foster care. So these three boys had a rough upbringing.
01:00:00
Speaker
They were all kind of loners. None of them really connected in high school, just like Chester. They all wanted connections. They all wanted it. Chester had issues of his own. Exactly. You're literally just forming a group of misfits almost. But that's what Piper did. He took this little cast of misfits and made a nice little accepting family and a home. Chester didn't live with them. He stayed with his mom. But it was just a safe place for them to be them without any kind of bullying or judgment. Yes.
01:00:29
Speaker
So this is where they're at. There, you know, have to be concerns about Chester falling because they did. They were a little bit, little bit louder. They're the group. When you go to a restaurant, you look over and sigh because there's loud swearing, loud laughing. Like they're just loud and they're drinking all the time. So everybody knows who they are. But Chester was a good kid. He lived with his mom and his sister. He just hung out with them some. So
01:00:55
Speaker
The thought process is while he might hang out with them, he's not going to get sucked all the way into that life. Like he's going to remain on course. He's going to go back to school. That's the that's that's kind of where we're all. And what you surround yourself with. Yeah. Well, March 10th. In South Dakota, it is still snowing, still snow on the ground. Crazy March.
01:01:15
Speaker
I live in Tennessee. That is not our weather here. Opening our pool. Right. Right. So March 10th, Dottie and Samantha decide they are going to take a well overdue and needed vacation to Florida. They're sick of the cold weather. They're sick of the snow. They want the heat. They want the warmth and they want to get out of South Dakota.
01:01:32
Speaker
Chester really did want to go with them, but he needed to stay and continue working. He's at the end of his little sabbatical from college, so he needs to make as much money. Plus, they don't want to leave the house unattended, and he's going to stay there, because this is his vacation, technically, and the girls are going to go take their vacation to Florida. So Chester helped them pack, loaded up their car to go on vacation. Everything is fine. And right before they leave, Chester starts panicking.
01:02:03
Speaker
Like he's anxious, he's panicking and he hugs his mom like super tight and begs her, please don't go. I've got a bad, I've got a bad feeling. Something is going to happen to you guys. Either the plane's going to crash, something's going to happen and I'm never going to see you guys again. Please don't go. I just feel it in my gut. If you leave, I will never see you again. You're not making it back from Florida.
01:02:30
Speaker
His mom, Dottie says, you know, everything's going to be fine. This is just a trip. We're going to be home before you know it. We're going to be good hugs. Chester extra tight. They leave for Florida. So like where this is going. Yeah. So the girls leave in Chester's home alone at the house, still anxious. So he's going to his buddy's house, play video games, try to forget this, this like sense of foreboding. Right. And so he's over there and he's hanging out and he decides, hey,
01:02:57
Speaker
I'm a single guy. I'm young. My family's gone. I've got this nice house to myself. What am I going to do? I'm going to have a party. So he tells his friends, hey, why don't tomorrow night you guys come to my house and we'll play video games there. We've got a huge TV. I'll you know, I'll set everything up. They say sounds great. So he's excited. This is the first time he's really had friends. Yeah.
01:03:21
Speaker
So he goes out, he gets snacks, he gets drinks, he sets everything up. He wants it all to look nice. He's trying to impress them because, you know, he's been to their house and it's three single younger guys. It's nothing to write home about. This is a nice house, nice stuff. So he's very excited. So the next night they all come over and they're hanging out playing video games.
01:03:41
Speaker
Piper and Elijah go off to explore through the house like you do at a party. Let's go snoop through some drawers. Hell yeah. See if we can find some loose change. My brother says if it's under a five spotter, it's finders keepers. A five spotter.
01:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, Micah says if if you find money and it's under a five dollar bill, you just get to keep it. No questions asked. It's not stealing at that point. It's five dollars and above. You don't take. There are a lot of things that your brother said that I don't necessarily agree with. Yeah, I know. I have stolen multiple things from him. So we're going to move on and not shake him. Yeah. So the boys eventually come back from exploring the house. They continue to play video games for a little bit until Piper says, hey, let's go back to our house and grab some stuff.
01:04:23
Speaker
like just close, let's all spend the night here. Like the house is huge, let's just spend the night here. So they all pile into Chester's Chevy Blazer and head back to the boy's house. Once they get there,
01:04:36
Speaker
they walk inside Chester's walking in first and he turns around to ask him something. And when he turns around, he is face to face with a 22 caliber pistol and the hands of Elijah being pointed right at his face. Are you kidding me? So while he's registering that about that time, he also registers that pistol that is currently being pointed at his face is the very exact same pistol his mom keeps in the house for protection.
01:05:05
Speaker
And they stole it from his house and then they robbed him and then murdered him. So at this point, the night's taking a dark turn. No one expected the three boys start yelling at Chet for Chester to get on the ground, get on the floor, get on the ground. Chester lowers himself to the ground. As soon as he's on the ground, Piper starts kicking him over and over his head, his body just kicking, kicking, kicking, kicking.
01:05:32
Speaker
And Cheshire's body is just screaming in pain. He doesn't know what's going on. These are his friends and Cheshire finally passes out. So Cheshire wakes up and he's groggy and he's a little stiff and he just had the weirdest dream. To look down and realize it was not a dream.
01:05:53
Speaker
He is sitting in a chair with a rope very tightly binding his entire body to a chair. There is a tire iron tied to the chair across his feet so he can't move or get out. And when he looks up and looks around, his three friends are staring at him. What the. So he starts to plead for them for mercy. Just you don't have to do this. What do you want? Guys, we're friends. What are you doing? Why are you doing this?
01:06:22
Speaker
just make it stop basically. And they ignore him and start, one walks off and comes back holding a beer bottle. And they come closer and closer to his face until they force his head back, hold open his mouth as a group and force him to drink this beer, which, okay, fine. You can call it hazing, you know, whatever. But this was no ordinary beer. This beer, while Chester was passed out,
01:06:50
Speaker
They took multiple pills that were throughout the house, ground them down and poured that into the beer. And if that's not bad enough, they also poured hydrochloric acid within the beer.
01:07:06
Speaker
Now hydrochloric acid is a clear poisonous liquid. This is from the health content multimedia. Sorry. It's highly corrosive, which and this is a direct quote. It is highly corrosive, which means it immediately causes severe damage, such as burning on contact. So just to show I just want hydrochloric acid is like what you would soak a human body in if you wanted to try to get rid of it. And so
01:07:34
Speaker
And you can say like, well, how did they get this? It's found in toilet bowl cleaners, porcelain cleaners, soldering fluxes, pool chemicals, certain fertilizers. There's a lot of places you can find it in the homeowners, not that you need to find it. It's meant literally for cleaning. Yeah. But I want to tell you, this is from the same medical website. Symptoms from swallowing hydrochloric acid may include
01:07:56
Speaker
abdominal pain slash severe breathing difficulty due to swelling of throat chest pain dash severe drooling fever mouth pain slash severe rapid drop in blood pressure throat pain slash severe vomiting blood so
01:08:16
Speaker
He has got this beer pouring down his throat. It is highly corrosive on contact. So it is burning the inside of his mouth, burning down his throat all the way to his stomach. It's also pouring. It's also in his mouth. So his gums, his tongue, the top of his mouth, all of this is being all of your sensory. Then it's pouring down his face, down his neck more than likely down his chest. All this is getting all this is getting burned. All this all this skin contact is just being burned by acid.
01:08:48
Speaker
So at this point, I couldn't even imagine the amount of pain. Number one, you finally have friends aren't accepted and this is what's happened to you. So just the emotional pain, but just the pain of your mouth, like every breath is a struggle. You're probably trying to throw up. They're still forcing it.
01:09:10
Speaker
So after they're dumping, yes, after they're done forcing him to drink this, Piper reaches into Chester's pocket, removes his wallet and takes out his bank card, doing one of those little like nice little fan of the bank card, throws the wallet away, which is when Chester realizes they're only his friends because his family has more money and that's what they wanted was his money.
01:09:33
Speaker
this starts to like really sink into his psyche He listens as his three friends debate the best way to kill him in front of him After all the suggestions the one that I guess wins out is one of the three boys suggested let's bring him into the woods Which is what they do. So they drive about 10 minutes. They put they put Chester back in his own car load him in and
01:10:00
Speaker
They drive about 10 minutes away to a state park and I just can you imagine like it's only 10 minutes but it is 10 minutes of you sitting between three people who you were your friends in just you know when you were beat to your beat until you passed out by being kicked you've probably got a broken rib if not multiple you're in pain
01:10:22
Speaker
Plus you've got internal acid burning. And this is the last few minutes you know you're gonna be alive. This is where you're at.
01:10:34
Speaker
so excuse me i hope he gets a shot off on one of them they arrive at the stake park and it's completely empty and dark it's freezing it there's snow on the ground no one's out there because they're smart and indoors um just my own thing uh so they get out of the car and start walking towards the trail pushing chester in front of them
01:10:55
Speaker
As he's walking in front of him, he's stumbling to the ground multiple times, falling in the snow. They eventually stop walking when they get to the trail, make Chester stripped down to his underwear in his shoes, standing there in pain, naked, looking at his friends, freezing. And they tell him to start walking, leading them deeper into the woods.
01:11:16
Speaker
And as they're walking, they continue to just haymaker his body, punching him, punching him in the sides, the back of the head, the neck. Like they're just punching anything they can the whole time he's walking. He's falling. He's in pain. And what is the purpose? I don't know. But they do. They do this all the way until they make it to the icy creek bed. Once they reach the creek, Chester is forced to lay down in the icy waters where Elijah takes a knife.
01:11:44
Speaker
on his person and stabs Chester in the neck. At this point, Chester knows he's about to die. He's crying. He's begging. He's pleading. And he finally just says, I'm going to die. I know I'm going to die. Please don't make me die here. Let me go die at my house where I'll be warm and surrounded by familiar. Don't make me die out here in the dark and the cold. I don't want to die cold. Please don't make me die cold.
01:12:10
Speaker
And so Piper has a very rare moment of mercy, if you will, and says, all right, that's fine. We'll take you to your home to die. But you got to wash the blood off your neck. So Chester is just at this point, this is his final hope. How do you just wash the blood? Because he's standing in a tree.
01:12:29
Speaker
Just wash it off. I don't know. They're not smart kids. It doesn't make any sense. No, but stab wounds don't just all the sudden stop bleeding. So Chester, you know, this is a he might be able to escape or reach a phone down. Either way, he gets to die at home. So healing down turns off the blood. And as he's rinsing off the blood from his neck, Piper forces him under the water. Standing on the back of his neck while the other two stand on like the sides of his shoulders,
01:12:59
Speaker
keeping him under as he struggles to come up for breath. Yeah. Which would be a like, honestly, if if that was how he died, that would have been a mercy. But just before he's done, when he's starting to struggle less and less, they decide, you know, we're not done. We've only got more fun to have. So Piper grabs the knife and just start stabbing Chester. Wherever he can reach, he's just stabbing him, stabbing him, stabbing him.
01:13:27
Speaker
And then says, I'm done. You two finish this up and he walks back to the car. So the other two boys. Pick up rocks, larger rocks from the creek bed and beside the creek and throw them repetitively at Chester's head until they stone him to death. And that is how he died. They leave Chester's naked, bloody, beaten, abused body there in the creek
01:13:57
Speaker
and just get into Chester's car, drive back to Chester's house, and still anything they can find that's not of value, that's of value. March 19th. I don't understand, dude. I don't know. March 19th, week later, Dottie and Samantha get back home from Florida, relaxed, ready to start the grind again, joyful, not knowing what's happened while they've been gone.
01:14:22
Speaker
Dottie remembers pulling up to the house and seeing all the lights off and Chester's car gone and she was really disappointed that Chester wasn't there to greet them like She really thought that he'd be there But you know, he's got friends now he might be at work he could have picked up an extra he'll be home soon So they walk in and as soon as she opens the front door She knows
01:14:44
Speaker
Like this feeling of dread settles over her entire body as she sees broken glass, smash figurines, picture frames just thrown on the ground. TV's gone. Anything about you can tell that she's been around. Yeah. And as she's realizing that she also realizes her son was home alone. Yeah. So she goes through the house screaming his name, trying to find Chester. Samantha has no idea what's going on, but she's freaking out because she knows something's wrong.
01:15:13
Speaker
When Dottie searches the whole house and she can't find Chester, she knows in her heart something's wrong. So she calls the police and reports them missing. Problem is Chester is an adult and his car is missing and there's nothing that should, there's no blood. There's no, they just vandalized the house and stole stuff. It doesn't look like he was there to be hurt. So there's not a lot of action they can take right now, but they do eventually try to find him.
01:15:43
Speaker
And there's nothing. He's he's gone. His truck's gone. There's no leads. It is a complete cold case. They have no idea what happened to him. So that spring, about five weeks later, after all the snow's gone, right? Yep. It's getting nice. It's outdoor weather. Chester's case is completely stone cold. There's not a single shred of anything. He just disappeared into the night.
01:16:14
Speaker
So five weeks later, it's spring and a couple goes to the state park to go hiking. They're enjoying their day. Like weird, weird people that enjoy outdoors until they smell sour smell. It's permeating the air. They continue walking. How many weeks are we talking? Five. Oh, my gosh. So they continue walking until they get to the creek and find a dead body.
01:16:38
Speaker
So they turn around. They call the police. The police come out. You know, it's obviously a hiking accident. Someone's gone camping, hiking. The police were not expecting nor were they forewarned. They were just told we found a dead body while we were hiking. So they're assuming they're assuming something completely different. Despite his body being outdoors in the elements for five weeks, it's South Dakota and it was cold and that water is still below freezing. So the body
01:17:08
Speaker
was completely preserved with absolutely barely any decont. Holy crap. So looking at that body, even though it's beaten, is obviously Chester. Like, there's no question. Because it's in below freezing water, so it didn't degrade. Animals didn't mess with it. No, everything's hibernating at that point. That's yes. And they were you can see insects don't really do frozen things. And you can they can clearly see the trauma he's lived through.
01:17:37
Speaker
Um, so they have to call Dottie and tell her they found Chester and they had to tell her, you know, what's what's going on. But they don't they still they've got nothing. There's no leads. They don't know anything going on.
Confessions and Arrests in Chester's Case
01:17:53
Speaker
Um, so then out of nowhere, a gentleman named Danny Burkhart comes into the station and says, I think I think I know something on your body. I've got a coworker named Daryl.
01:18:09
Speaker
who said he was involved with a murder and they left the body at a park. And I think it's this guy you're talking about on the news. Because this deal, it was at the park, you know, whole nine. So I believe that people would literally go to their place of business and be like, yeah, I killed this guy. Yeah, right. Her like that, like a criminal. So they talk to this guy.
01:18:37
Speaker
And they the police talk to him and it's not enough. It's just hearsay. So they ask him, would you be willing to wear a wire? And go meet with Daryl again and try to get a confession. So Danny goes, yeah, sure. I'll do that. So he does. And Danny, Danny talks because he's, you know,
01:19:02
Speaker
Danny talks to Daryl. It's like, hey, man, this body they found is all over the news. Is that the guy you were telling me about? You guys killed. And Daryl's like, yeah, yeah, man. It was crazy. Like we had him. We went to his house. We stole his gun. And that's what we we got him to do everything we needed to do. And this is so this is the worst, the worst part.
01:19:32
Speaker
So the gun is how they got him on the ground. Why didn't they ever shoot him? Because they're sadistic. Because they're awful people. It wasn't loaded. They couldn't find any bullets. They couldn't find the bullet, so it was as useless as a cap gun. You know what though, honest to God, you're looking at three individuals that could have taken him out either way.
01:19:58
Speaker
It was going to happen regardless if there was an empty weapon or not, like true. But the fact it's just the fact. Like that always gets me when when the bad guys get you to do what they want because they've got a gun, but it's not loaded empty. Like every time I hear that, like it makes my heart like just.
01:20:20
Speaker
You could have fought. You might not have been able to take them all, but you could have. You could have had a chance. I think that's like my goal in life, though, if you could have something was that if something was going to happen to me like that, I would rather go down fighting and die that way, because at least it would probably be a little less complicated. Well, that's my thing. And a little less painful. Like, even if you don't know, even if you didn't fight him, you could have ran. They couldn't have shot you. Was it a statistic or something that maybe I heard on, like,
01:20:48
Speaker
I don't know some stupid crime show that I watch or whatever, but they always say don't leave the first spot Yeah, I don't know where I know what I I'm just gonna say like I Don't know. It just makes sense. Yeah, you know what I mean? Well, what when you have a kid or something else is going on. I understand I
01:21:12
Speaker
I understand that 110 percent. But man, oh, my gosh, the poor kid. So with the recording that enough ammo against Daryl to bring Daryl in, the police did. So they bring Daryl in and he basically tells them, yeah, my my two buddies Piper and Elijah. They killed him. I wasn't there, but this is what they did. And the police were like,
01:21:41
Speaker
You know every detail, there's no way you want there. Like, because when you're retelling a story, you give highlights. You don't give like step by step of what happens. Yeah. So they know something's up and they try to find the two other boys, but they're gone. Piper, which was the ringleader of this Mary Mary group. Excuse me. Very dry. He moved back to Alaska, which is where he lived growing up until he was 13.
01:22:10
Speaker
And then Elijah, the other one, he moved and he left and went to, I believe it was Missouri. They finally did get the others. They rounded them all up, questioned them, and literally all three, it's same story, different verse. This is what they did, but I wasn't there. This is what they did, but I wasn't there. But they all knew all the details. Like clearly they're all three there, right? So Bradley Piper,
01:22:38
Speaker
The ringleader. Josh, it makes me so mad. Prosecutors argued that Piper was the ringleader of the group and good at manipulating people. Piper pled guilty to Chester's death in January, January 2001, waiving his right to have a jury determine his sentence. Judge Warren Johnson sentenced him to death on January 19th, 2001.
01:23:06
Speaker
Piper did appeal his conviction. And in 2009, the state Supreme Court overturned his death penalty. Boo on you because did you hear what they did to this kid? But arguing that a jury should decide his fate, not one judge, the jury, they did convene a jury and the jury sentenced him to death. Thank God is 2011 with the sentence being upheld in 2019, execution of Charles Russell rhymes on November 4th, 2019.
01:23:38
Speaker
Piper is now the only person left on death row in South Dakota and he remains incarcerated in South Dakota currently, so there's one Second is Daryl Hadley the one that got caught there at the beginning. Yep Sorry, I was fixing to read you Piper that's not where we're at um He was living he was still in South Dakota he was the one that was found and he had a daughter and
01:24:06
Speaker
He did not waive his right to a jury trial. The other two, Piper and Elijah, both waived their right to a jury trial. I'm going to tell you Elijah Lashes because, but he did not waive his right to a jury trial and he pled not guilty at his trial.
01:24:23
Speaker
After deliberations, the jury deadlocked eight and four in favor of life in prison. So he was spared execution and sentenced to life in prison in 2001, which is where he remains incarcerated currently at South Dakota State Penitentiary. Finally, Elijah Page. He was the one that flew to Missouri. He was the one that had the worst childhood that was sexually assaulted at two.
01:24:54
Speaker
He pled guilty to Chester's death and waved his right to a jury trial. And on February 16, 2001, he was sentenced to death by Judge Warren Johnson. By August 2006, he was still alive and Elijah Page ordered his attorney to stop all appeals process and allow his execution to proceed as he deserved.
01:25:17
Speaker
He said that he was tired of living a life of a condemned man. He waived all appeals and requested his execution date be sped up. He was initially scheduled to be executed on August 29, 2006, but it was delayed by Governor Mike Rounds until at least July 1, 2017, over a technicality involving the drugs, which we've discussed in previous cases.
01:25:41
Speaker
He was executed by lethal injection at South Dakota State Penitentiary, July 11, 2007. He was the first person executed in South Dakota in over 60 years. He's the first person executed in South Dakota since the state reinstated capital punishment in 1979.
01:26:01
Speaker
At the age of 25, he was also the youngest person executed in South Dakota in the modern era, and no one younger than him has been executed in the United States since his execution. He's also the one that let him know that the reason why they were so brutal on the attack was before they got him down in the river, Piper decided that they needed to sexually assault Chester.
01:26:32
Speaker
Chester broke free and took off And they caught him in the woods and beat him drug him back to the creek forced him under Out of all the men The three men because they weren't boys. They were men Out of all of them Elijah was the only one that showed remorse and just When he went to trial, I'm guilty. No contest. I don't need a jury to tell me
01:27:03
Speaker
And just I did it. It was wrong and I deserve it. So that's why I saved him to last because I feel like I mean, not that it is any excuse, but his childhood was horrific. Being raped at two living in abandoned buildings with your family until the state takes you away. You finally have a family. And he was the one that was said to be a good kid, but just easily led.
01:27:33
Speaker
And so he finally had a family. He had a place that he had a house, a roof over his head. He had people that loved him. And when the group of this family said, we're doing this. He said, OK, he was he was one of the first to stab him. Stab Chester, I think that it was I'm not excusing his behavior at all.
01:27:57
Speaker
but I think he felt like to keep what he had found in these guys, this family, he had to do it and I think he realized what he did was wrong.
Comparative Justice and Sentencing Disparities
01:28:07
Speaker
Just the way, like if you watch anything from him at trial, he is very like, he's not obstinate, he's not glaring at the judge, like having an attitude or chip on his shoulder. It is very, like it is a very defeated posture, just, I don't know.
01:28:25
Speaker
I it doesn't excuse it. He'll have. Well, he won't. He's he's he's dead now, but he had to live with what he did until the end. OK, so can I ask a very, very stupid question that may or may not be relevant? I may or may not know the answer. Well, you may or may not agree with me. But if Chester was mentally disabled,
01:28:52
Speaker
Would we be having the same conversation? No, because I wouldn't be able to find half the information I found just like when you did yours. Because now we're sitting here talking about two people who were tortured.
01:29:02
Speaker
I know that this is like the fourth week in a row. As soon as she started it, I was like, oh my gosh. That's what I'm saying. Here's the deal. So we're looking at a case where these guys got life, death, what was handed to them. Right. Yep. And because my case was a handicapped, disabled person with no family to outcry for him. Her, her. No, there were people that out cried.
01:29:29
Speaker
There were people. See, here's my thing. Nelson, whatever. They deserve death. They deserve it. But here's here's my thing. Are we making an excuse? Because they were difficult. I don't know. I mean, the thing that bothers me between the two cases, I'm going to be 100 percent honest with you. The thing that bothers me between the two cases is all three of my my perpetrators. All two of them got death.
01:29:58
Speaker
One has already been executed, one is still waiting death, and the last one has life without parole. And that is for something that they chose in the spur of a moment and like a gang's pack style mentality to orchestrate quickly, rapidly.
01:30:13
Speaker
high, like high emotions. It's all follow the leader. And then all of a sudden, oh crap, what did we do? Yours is a slow two year torture and degradation of a human. And they got five, 15 years max and five years minimum.
01:30:32
Speaker
between, like, one got 15, one got five, one got 400, but we get parole. That's what I'm saying. And these people are already up for parole. And it was a slow, methodical, like, I'm sorry, but you can tell me you're rehabilitated all you want. If you put pepper seeds in someone's eye and then make it to where they can't get them out, that is a demented mind.
01:30:53
Speaker
Yeah, you're a sick fuck like you're looking to maximally injure that person. Yeah. So how are you just off on? But again, again, we're sitting here and we're having a conversation right now and we're like, what is the difference between ABC and because there's not a bar when it comes to sexual assault?
01:31:12
Speaker
there's not no I'm sorry the bars are stupid when it comes to sexual assault right like well if you do a B and C to a kid it's not super bad but if you do it with a knife yeah
01:31:25
Speaker
Right? Then we're going to have some charges brought against you. Yeah. So now you and I, and this is, guys, I'm sorry, but I find it kind of amusing that Faith told this story tonight compared to my story because we don't talk about what we're going to talk about. No, it is always a very surprised kind of, which is why a lot of times I get really quiet because I'm like, I don't even want to listen to this anymore. Are you going to the story? Yeah, I do that a lot. Yeah. But.
01:31:53
Speaker
for us to have two victims murdered.
01:31:58
Speaker
in a violent and just inhumane, inhumane and unnecessary way. There was no need for it. They had him tied. They could have taken everything and still gone off to Alaska. They stoned him to death. Yeah, literally. They could have left him in the woods, stoned him to death. They could have just left him in the woods and they could have been long gone by the time he found his way back.
01:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, their intent at that point was murder for me in a nutshell. Yeah. And so then you have my case flip flip scene. OK, where you have somebody who's incapable of taking care of themselves and you are supposed to be protected by the people that are taking care of you. And she was shoved in a closet. Yep. Tied up. Just just just to give you the difference here, I want to tell you what my three guys were charged with. OK.
01:32:52
Speaker
So Paige, excuse me, who's the one that's been executed, his convictions, what he was charged with first degree murder, aggravated first degree kidnapping, first degree robbery, first degree burglary, and grand theft auto.
01:33:09
Speaker
Piper was convicted of first-degree murder, aggravated first-degree kidnapping, first-degree robbery, first-degree burglary, and grand theft. Daryl was the exact same thing, first-degree murder, aggravated first-degree kidnapping, first-degree robbery, first-degree burglary, grand theft.
01:33:28
Speaker
and mine was assaulting an adult with disabilities and manslaughter and manslaughter. Number one, you're holding her against her will. She's an adult. I don't care that she's mentally handicapped. I guarantee you she didn't want to be in that closet.
01:33:42
Speaker
And it was a methodical, malicious, thought out, long term process of torturing her. For God knows how long, man. I mean, I know that she lived there for like two years or some some crap like that, but like, when did the abuse start? How long did it go on for? And nobody knows. And those crap bags are never going to tell you. No. And again. Shh.
01:34:08
Speaker
I don't like I feel like now to Dottie and Samantha Chester's sister and mother absolutely no excuse for what you've had to live through what happened to Chester I deeply apologize and I do not want to take away from that at all but I feel like what happened to Christina
01:34:31
Speaker
What's worse because it was overtime where is this was started out as we're gonna beat him up in steel and they just went crazy and go ahead. I'm maybe they didn't plan to kill him and they just once they all got going it was pack mentality and just one up in each other i don't know not that that excuses it or makes it better. He should never had to be no one should do that yet.
01:34:54
Speaker
Like we talk about this, like there's no. But it was it was a one and done like it was all in one night and then they realized what they did and they all ran basically. Whereas we talk about your person tortured her for day in, day out.
01:35:14
Speaker
For no research her and then calling things a privilege like a birthday party and got a slap on the wrist. Like, because that's basically what happened like that. And and she couldn't fight back like. I just I'm not capable. Both of Chester was both. No, both of them are horrific. But I know I just I want to say real quick, like in your story, there was something that hit me really hard. Yeah. And it was when Chester begged them not to go because something was going to happen to them.
Emotional Burden on Victims' Families
01:35:43
Speaker
Whatever. But I couldn't imagine being a mom. And that was like one of the last things that my son ever said to me was don't go. And I went. And so for you guys, like I pray for peace in that. You didn't know. No. You had no idea. No. And there's. But still that that's got to be a burden to carry. And then like when you.
01:36:09
Speaker
I'm sorry, I'm getting emotional. That killed that killed me is because I changed some of the verbiage because I didn't want to. I didn't want to give it away at the beginning that Chester was the victim in the story.
01:36:19
Speaker
And quite frankly, it's more like when you start to hear my story at the beginning, you think a single mom and a high school girl going to Florida by themselves, one of them is getting got. Yeah. Like in today's world, that's what you think. So that's why. But Dotty was telling Dotty was telling all this afterwards about how he just squeezed her and said, please don't go like something's going to happen. I know y'all aren't going to make it back.
01:36:44
Speaker
But it was his gut warning him of what do you like he was he never did see them again. And I can't imagine because can you imagine the guilt of knowing your son was just tortured day one of your vacation and you just had a blast the rest of the week going out to eat sip and drinks.
01:37:05
Speaker
Not that they did anything wrong, but you know that that has to play like, oh, anytime you look at pictures from that vacation, oh, look, here we are at the pool. Chester was laying in the creek, like just the trauma that these guys inflicted on them, like not just taking their son, but oh my gosh, which again, please hear me. We are not shaming Dottie or Samantha. People need vacation. No, no, no. You don't know.
01:37:31
Speaker
And I. That's like in 20s. You're not going to talk to them every day. No, you're not going to know exactly what they're doing verbatim every single day. No, every single hour, minute of the day. No, plus it's a boy. It's not like like a totally different story. It's Wednesday. I haven't talked to my mom since Monday and like.
01:37:48
Speaker
literally driving home from work while driving to get my daughter from after school to go here. Like I'm like, man, I haven't talked to my mom in like two days. She's got to be mad at me. What have I done? Like, oh, my gosh, blah, blah, blah. Why is it my mom called me or checked it? And then she called me like on the way here and I was like, oh, she loves me. But that's like girls and her mom, like guys don't talk on the phone. They're not going to sit there and text and be like, oh, how's your vacation? My brothers both go like a week or so without talking to my parents. Yeah, it's just different between boys and girls. But
01:38:19
Speaker
Just can't imagine the trauma like the internal trauma of already having the dad Yeah, pass the way he passed and in the horrific like you've already dealing with so much guilt of Anytime like every literally every person that I've walked through someone was suicidal. It's well, why didn't I see that? How did I not see the signs because you don't you're not always there? No, you're never gonna know and guess what? Everybody has a bad day and
Debate on Death Penalty and Medieval Justice
01:38:45
Speaker
So you've got all this going on, you live with it, and then this happens. I just can't imagine. If I was Dottie, I would bubble wrap Samantha and she'd be lucky to ever leave the house. Like, we are Siamese twins from this moment on where you go, I go. I am Naomi to your Ruth, your people are my people, we will travel together till the end of the time.
01:39:14
Speaker
Tell your husband we love him. Like, I mean, I just can't I can imagine my heartbreak for them like. Befuddled. Of where and I have to bring it up again, like where do our standards come from?
01:39:35
Speaker
as a human race, as a government, as a judicial system, what you're willing to press charges against, what you're willing to let people get away with, knowing what you know. Because in both cases, there was admission. What does it really cost you to get a confession, I guess?
01:40:00
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, I'm going to give you limited to no time if you just admit that you did this. You know what I'm saying? Like that just to me is stupid. Like now. You there are two very different cases, but at the same time, very similar cases in which. You have somebody who is described to the public as disabled.
01:40:31
Speaker
and that changes your mark. It changes the way that we process, it changes the way that we do things. I highly disagree with the way Utah handled. Highly.
01:40:46
Speaker
I lead in the first case that we've talked about now where you can sit here and talk about a guy who was basically Set up and died now in a very treacherous way Because it didn't work the first like nine times. They did it when they tried to electrocute him
01:41:06
Speaker
over a guy who said, oh, yeah, I'll tell you whatever you want. I will tell you that that cockroach stand up puts on the top hat and dances. If that's what you want me to say, as long as I don't have to get the descents. And they and none of my three were given any kind of. Deal. The only difference is Darryl did not waive his jury trial.
01:41:32
Speaker
And the jury were deadlocked on the death penalty. So someone in there didn't agree with the death penalty, which I get it if you don't. But in that they stoned him to death after pretending to be his friend. Like how much money are you willing to dish out to keep someone alive? Technically, I did some research on this and I don't have exact figures for you, but I do know it costs more.
01:41:57
Speaker
to put someone to death in the United States, then make them live a life without parole and prison. Do you know why? Because you've got to fly in all their family. You got to give them last like everything that accompanies the death penalty costs more money than just making them. But we're giving someone. The rights. To have all of that, I'm going to give an unpopular opinion. Here's an unpopular opinion. Go to Morbid.
01:42:27
Speaker
Which is a podcast. Great podcast. Well, it got me started listening to crime like really heavily. But if you listen to one of the earlier episodes, they go through all the medieval torture. Like in detail, what happens to you, what it's called, you know, the Iron Maiden, the Iron Bull, the Stretch, like they go through all of it.
01:42:48
Speaker
And I'm just going to say some of those need to be brought back because given someone a sedative and a muscle relaxer to give them not feel anything. They didn't care that Chester felt every single kick, punch, knife stab and rock to the head. Oh, let's not know the acid down his throat. Christina died with a.
01:43:13
Speaker
Freaking pepper chili in her eye Pepper chili chili pepper seed. Yeah that one. I said pepper seed you're you're just taking it into a different It doesn't matter but any kind of pepper anything pain crap in pain Alone in a closet being treated like an animal worse than an animal, you know, the Vikings did a thing called the Iron Eagle and
01:43:36
Speaker
Google it. I'm not going to tell you about it. All of them. I'm telling you. Morbid did. It's literally like an hour and a half to a two hour episode on the different methods of torture they did in in the medieval days. And I say who are. With some of these cases. Yes, not all. Not everybody. Obviously not. But this case, they admitted to it. What is it? OK. So like Game of Thrones, I know you watched it some, right? I watched every little episode. And so did I. So the disappointing end.
01:44:03
Speaker
Very disappointing. OK, but the dude that walked around and he didn't have his twig and berries anymore, what did they call that? A eunuch. A eunuch. Why don't we do that anymore for people that molest kids?
01:44:15
Speaker
that you know there's a lot i think i i can even i actually i didn't send you these videos because i was so enraged and i i was already so mad i didn't want to listen to you screaming at me swear words over the phone but if you go literally tick tock
Controversial Topics on Justice and Society
01:44:30
Speaker
youtube facebook any social media or probably google and google um maps in today's news you'll hear about all the people doing press conferences about how
01:44:41
Speaker
calling them pedophiles is wrong and judgmental. Yep. Because they know they're the most they're the most child. Oh, God. What? Ah, sorry. What is it called? I don't have time to edit, Lisa. I'm sorry. Child. They have lots of names. Maps is the most common minor attracted minor minor attracted person. That's what a map is. Minor attracted person. And one lady had the gall to say that
01:45:10
Speaker
And she is a psych and acting board certified current day psychologist. People got to be put in place. Maps got to be maps are the most. What do they call it? I think she said prejudiced group of people. And just because you want to have sex with a with a five year old doesn't make it wrong. Her words verbatim. And I literally if I hadn't just bought my phone because I broke the other one would have spiked it on the ground.
01:45:39
Speaker
And it was like a dual screen and somebody was sitting there. She's like pedophile pedophile. It's called a pedophile. No, you're not having sex with a five year old. You're raping a child. And she's right. You are. But this psychologist is sitting here. And I'm sorry if you feel I'm not sorry. If you feel like what I'm saying is wrong. I'm sorry. This is not for you. I'd rather have no listeners listening than kiss pedophiles, but verbally.
01:46:09
Speaker
Go get help. There's help out there. There are people that are attracted to minors that never act on it. Be one of them. Just because you see an attractive woman doesn't mean you can throw on the ground and have sex or that's called rape.
01:46:23
Speaker
I. First of all, please send it to me after the podcast is over. And I will give Alice going to say I'll give myself some time to calm down first because. Oh, it is. It was. Yeah. It's all over and it's not just one like it is all over right now and it is absolutely.
01:46:43
Speaker
Infuriating actually there was honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you Like I know people like give certain things names, right because it makes it sound a little better, right?
Conclusion and Reflections on Justice
01:46:53
Speaker
But minor attracted person is the best you could come up with Minor attracted person
01:47:04
Speaker
Okay, you go ahead and be attracted. You come within 10,000 feet of my kid and I've got arrows and bullets and blow darts that I could...
01:47:17
Speaker
I don't know. I'd want to use my hands. Right. Just to feel the life go. That's why me and Faith do true. No, we are not. We don't think that what that we should end. We've lost. She's lost. I'm going to plot. Yeah, I know. We're not even talking about we're not even talking about any children in this episode. Yeah. So those are our stories on Utah and South Dakota, South Dakota. I'm sorry I put you off, but
01:47:44
Speaker
There was your story. Guys, real quick, like do your research in your area for the abusive disabled people because it is not well known. It's not covered. It's not anything like that. And they're a helpline. You can have a wellness chat. Absolutely. Any of the websites that I gave you tonight, abc4.com, desert.com, whatever.
01:48:08
Speaker
They've got links at the bottom to tell you where to go. Yeah. And, you know, people will sue and they'll do this, that and the other thing that the deal is, is it's too late when they're when they already start suing. Like, it only takes one person to start it and then everybody comes out of the woodworks that was afraid to come forward earlier. Again, very famous saying that I always like to go to Edmund Burke. OK, the only way for Evo to triumph is if good men do what? Nothing. Yep.
01:48:38
Speaker
Stand up for what you believe in, guys. There's no shame in that game. Well, tonight's episode was rough. Sorry about that. Again, condolences to Dottie and Samantha. We are definitely going to be thinking about you this week.
01:49:12
Speaker
Gosh, you suck. You just told our listeners that they suck. No, all the perpetrators we've talked about. All right. Well, I'm going to go. I'm going to go to bed. So, yep, me too. Well, no, I'm probably not. I'm probably going to Google that map crap you were just talking about because I'm weird.
01:49:13
Speaker
And for the rest
01:49:29
Speaker
I said it's not a cuss word. I stop myself. All right. Fuck off. I'm going to post this tomorrow on Thursday because I got some editing to do because someone likes to use a potty mouth. But look, I do my best. Neither of them are there. But when you tell me stories the way you tell me stories, you have to imagine the frustration. Yeah. You actually did good just saying one bad word. So I can't fault you too much there. Thank you.
01:49:53
Speaker
All right, guys, well, have a beautiful week and a great night and we'll talk to you later. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.