Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Free Will | A Comedy Podcast
331 Plays1 year ago
After being needlessly ridiculed by John and Greg simply for having an opinion too advanced for them to understand, Kevin decided to lead his own philosophical episode, this time discussing free will. Do we have as much control over our lives as we'd like to think we do? We'll answer that question definitively, with no room for ambiguity or debate, once and for all.
https://bio.site/historydefeatsitself
Recommended
Transcript
Jousting in the Olympics: A Humorous Debate
00:00:00
Speaker
What's the one on the horse where you're holding the long big long spear? Well if the lance is the spear joust. Yeah, yeah jousting. I don't think they joust in the olympics greg. They should That'd be pretty of medieval times. You always get those confused. Oh, yeah, I do Well, i'm drunk at both of them
Introducing 'History Defeats Itself' Podcast
00:00:23
Speaker
History Defeats Itself is a comedy podcast. Kevin, John, and Greg are not experts, historians, or even all that smart. Hello and welcome to History Defeats Itself. My name is Kevin Rosencrest.
00:00:43
Speaker
We are a comedy podcast that wonders why us as people never seem to learn from our history. I'm joined as always by two men who are never going to give you up or let you down. John Banks and Greg Mitchell. How you guys doing? I'm never going to run around. I'm curious. Yeah.
00:01:03
Speaker
I'm curious why you look so surprised when you're the one who decides when we start.
Celebrity Sobriety and Humorous Speculations
00:01:11
Speaker
I don't know. I'm excited about Kevin's lighting today. You notice his skin tone is not too pasty, right? Yeah. I think he's got the spray tan just perfectly mixed. Good work. It's amber. I spray tanned once. I look good. Did you get your penis and balls?
00:01:30
Speaker
No. Definitely looked weird naked. Definitely looked weird naked. Looked like I was still wearing underwear. Whitey tighties. As if you don't look weird naked anyway. Yeah. I am a man. Most of us don't look great naked. Nope. Yeah, we don't.
00:01:49
Speaker
outside of, you know, the goslings and pits of the world. But we don't know if they were good naked. We don't know. I bet. I'll bet gosling was funny. They may have funny looking penises. They could. Yeah. Did you hear that pit quit drinking? I did quit drinking. Yeah. I'm not happy about that. Yeah. That's just a pointer. So did Tom Hunter. Who? Spiderman. You know who you know who helped Brad Pitt quit drinking? Tom Cruise. Bradley Cooper. Oh.
00:02:17
Speaker
Jesus, another heartthrob. You know who helped Bradley Cooper? Woody Harrelson. Do you know who helped Woody Harrelson? That's made up, right? No. Maybe. Do you know who helped Woody Harrelson? Maybe it was being on the show. Woody Harrelson introduced them to lots of drugs. Being on the show, cheers. That helped Woody Harrelson quit drinking. It did.
00:02:37
Speaker
I think it was what a Harrison actually helped Bradley Cooper. I don't care. I don't like the fact that they're in a tight circle or I'm not in it. If I was in that circle, I'd be like really interested. Would you quit drinking too or no? No, fuck that.
00:02:51
Speaker
Did I say that Courtney and I saw Jon Hamm at the airport, like literally like he was two feet away from me and like he'd been over into my little, his ticket, he left his ticket in the bin and I was like, Hey, Jon Hamm, you left your ticket. I didn't say, what did he say? I said, I said your ticket and he turned around and grabbed it. He's like, thanks. And I just want to be like, you're so handsome, Jon Hamm. Can I gaze into your eyes longingly for the next five seconds? I don't care where you're going. I want to go with you.
00:03:15
Speaker
And he's like, hey, John, John Banks, I'm 10 feet away from you and your beard is still touching me. John Banks from the podcast history defeats itself. He's like, wow, can I get you autograph?
00:03:30
Speaker
And you're like, no, no, instead of photographs, I just pluck a beard hair and I form it into a John Banks signature.
Podcast Social Media and Inspirations
00:03:38
Speaker
And I love you. They actually each grow as a John Banks signature. So I don't have to form it. I just pluck it. Oh, thank God. That gets time consuming. Yeah. That would take a while. That would take it only, it only forms itself when you snip it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:51
Speaker
As soon as it falls off, it goes, John Banks. Cursive? Yeah, cursive. It's a signature, you dumb fuck, Jesus. You don't get to pick your font, though. Hey, was Ham playing coach or what? Playing coach. Yeah. Flying coach.
00:04:07
Speaker
Oh, flying coach. He wasn't on my flight, and I assume not. He had a paper ticket though, so I think it was like a last minute decision to go to the airport and fly somewhere. Or he's a paper ticket kind of guy. I don't think he is. He seems like he'd have an assistant kind of guy. Some people don't trust technology. Yeah, that's true.
00:04:25
Speaker
Jon Hamm, we're painting you in that corner, buddy. Yep. Jon Hamm, not convinced that the email ticket thing works. Well, I mean, you're fucking handsome. I mean, he ran, he ran the, he's part of that adage you see in the sixties. So, I mean, Jon Hamm's gotta be 120. So he's not great with technology, but he looks fantastic for his age. He's a vampire. That's why.
00:04:49
Speaker
Follow us on social media. I haven't posted on there in a while, but you should still follow us on social media. TikTok, Instagram. Actually, everybody needs to get off social media. It's not good for a social media, but listen to us on the podcasts. But stay off the social media because I don't want to do the social media stuff anyway. So give me a reason not to. But still listen and send us money.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, that would be great. We got to start a Patriot. If you want to, you can even pay us not to do this. We're looking at that too. Yeah, I would. I would be down for that. Yeah, I would definitely be down for that.
00:05:23
Speaker
Also, we're kind of like farmers with subsidies until until that happens. It's my turn to lead tonight. So let's get started. My inspirations for today's topic are Greg Mitchell. Thank you very much. Are the two men staring back at me on my computer screen right now?
00:05:43
Speaker
You see, last episode, I was ridiculed, teased, yelled at, beaten, and subjected to snarky texts and general dickishness by my co-hosts. Why, you ask? Because I had a viewpoint that was too philosophical and deep for them to understand. Advanced reason is not something that they excel in. In case you missed it, or need a refresher,
00:06:09
Speaker
Last episode, Greg felt inspired by the episode that John had done previously. It was more thought provoking than he thought John capable of.
00:06:19
Speaker
Uh, Greg talked about- Now you're making it sound like I'm insulting John. John, I didn't mean it that way. There's a very bare tone in Kevin's voice. You can tell- You've insulted John for like 15 straight minutes last episode. Yeah, the difference is I insulted John. That's my fucking job. And you're fucking stepping all over me right now. Yeah, it's true.
00:06:38
Speaker
John, Greg talked about the difficulties one has with changing one's opinion. He discussed neuroscience and how our brains are sort of wired to have certain opinions. This whole episode just give me a fucking summary of what we do. The physical component involved. All right, fine. You know what? You want. I do have I do have a clip for to summarize. Here's here's my clip. I'm super stupid.
00:06:59
Speaker
Alright, so that was the synopsis of Greg's discussion from last episode. Two episodes ago, John led the podcast. This is cruel, man. This is like a toothpick, everybody.
00:07:14
Speaker
Two episodes ago, John led the podcast that inspired Greg. We had a discussion on the exact title of our show, History Defeats Itself. He enlightened us on the cyclical nature of major events in the world's history. He cited Peter Turchin, the founder of Clio Dynamics, a discipline of historical macro sociology that seeks to identify patterns and cycles in history through the application of mathematical models. Here's a clip from that episode. But I am this stupid.
00:07:41
Speaker
So during this episode, I think this episode should be called Inception. So it's kind of like an episode within an episode with an episode. And we're stupid. Kevin's a meanie meanie. He's a fucking asshole. And he knows how to record our... He knows how to like play back our... Well, he took time. I hope I know how to record our conversations because... He did take time to do that. Ignore everything Kevin says, ladies and gentlemen.
00:08:08
Speaker
During Greg's episode, I opined that one could argue that Greg and John's episodes were opposite viewpoints. John's was based on societal patterns out of our control and Greg's was more about our individual brains
Philosophical Themes on Free Will and History
00:08:21
Speaker
and offered more of a chance for change. This whole episode is him proving himself right. Predestination versus free will. Because I had the audacity to bestow high level logic on these two, they of course resorted to name calling, the only defense they really know. Yeah, you're a fucking idiot.
00:08:35
Speaker
So I scrapped my original idea for this episode and decided to do part three of this theme.
00:08:42
Speaker
Before I reveal the topic, do you guys have anything to add? I feel like I summarized that pretty well. Yeah, is it about your stupid fucking tattoo? Wait, hold on. No, no, I have a question. I have a question. Or it's not a question. It is something to add, though. So you gave up time with your child to find us saying those things so you could play it back on this episode. You gave up time with your family. When we're way more than happy to tell you we're stupid,
00:09:08
Speaker
Without without actually. Where's the dramatic effect of that? We read your scripts. You tell us what to say. We say. No, it wasn't that hard. But anyway, so tonight we're going to talk about free will. I love this topic. Willy, that was a good movie. Remember that whale? So what happened was he was jumps over a kid. That's all he was. He was in captivity, right?
00:09:34
Speaker
Funny you know they say like whales have huge cocks, but if you like the kids and his whale dick fucking Yeah, couldn't custom or he's just round that's how free Williams Willie gets free and the kid dies by Willie's Willie so And that kid's name was Willie it was
00:09:59
Speaker
So do we as individuals and societies truly choose our own destinies or are we mere actors playing out the script of history? So I want to start with what John talked about in his episode. Real briefly, civilization cycles. Some examples would be the rise and fall of empires, the Roman, the Byzantine, Ottoman, and British.
00:10:19
Speaker
noticing similarities in their expansion, peak decline, and fall. Some other examples, economic boom and bust cycles like the Great Depression of the 1930s, the dot-com bubble of the late 1990s, and the 2008 financial crisis all followed times of economic prosperity. Don't forget about like August of 2023, because right now is not exactly a boom down time. It's not.
00:10:43
Speaker
But we did have a pandemic a couple years ago, a few years ago. Yeah, but the economy kicked ass in the pandemic. Now we're eating a big fat fucking shit sandwich. Yeah. But it's one of those sandwiches that shits on the outside Indians, right? Yeah, there's no bread. There's no bread. It's all shit. It's all shit. It's really just a pile of shit. It's exactly like what happens when you get a Wendy's.
00:11:07
Speaker
Wendy's not a sponsor but not gonna be a sponsor or this is a good time to announce our sponsor Wendy's for all your frosty needs you know what I'll take a shit junior with an order of fries and uh I'll take a bacon sir you do know the fries are shit just shit too just we deep fry it well yeah yeah I know I know don't tell me what a fucking fry is just get it to me stupid shit
00:11:32
Speaker
when you're 12 bucks an hour. Fry that cat. Make your burgers square because we don't cut corners. Oh, that's good. Oh, you should probably you should probably email them.
00:11:44
Speaker
after the same thing I said, I don't think they're gonna fucking open that email. Don't worry, this isn't live. I could cut that out. I probably won't though. Hey, get that out. So recurring conflicts, the consistent emergence of civil wars or revolts during times of economic disparity or resource scarcity. So essentially these patterns could show us how to predict significant world events based on specific signs that were present for the past events. Do I have that pretty right, John?
00:12:14
Speaker
So now let's move on to Greg's episode. What am I going to say? The scientific perspective, neurological studies have shown. I didn't know we could just do an episode where we just talk about previous episodes. Pretty cool. Yes, you do. You talk about yourself every episode. Yeah, but usually new aspects about myself or different aspects. My next episode is just going to be me playing recordings of different sentences we said in all the previous episodes. John, if I thought you could put that together, I would say go for it.
00:12:44
Speaker
That is actually, that is actually an accurate jab. I can't do it either. So Greg did the scientific perspective, neurological studies, uh, indicating that decisions might be made in the brain. Another one I don't recall if we discussed would be, uh, genetics and behavior. How much do our genes dictate our actions and decisions?
00:13:10
Speaker
I was going to know how much do our Jordash jeans dictate? Oh, that's what it was. It was Jordash jeans. I do remember that now. Anything to add, Greg? Or did you did you cover everything last episode? You know, this sounds like super condescending. Oh, it sounds like it's a trap. It's not a trap. I swear it's not a trap. I honestly was just trying to blow through that stuff.
Exploring Free Will: Philosophical Perspectives
00:13:30
Speaker
So. All right. Let's do what I did is I left that episode in the past like you should have. Clearly, I could not.
00:13:38
Speaker
Yeah. No, you're, you're still, you're defending. Like we apparently gave you way more shit than we usually do. And you wrote this whole episode to somehow vindicate yourself when I don't care how much information you share with us. John and I will never be on team Kevin again.
00:13:54
Speaker
That's fine. You never were. So first of all, uh, but let's just move on because you're already annoying me. Hold on. Hold on. I'm a flip flopper. So not that I've never been on team Kevin. Sometimes I am. Sometimes I'm not. It just really depends on that. So you are kind of a flip-flop. I'm totally consistently anti Kevin and fairness. I'm consistently anti Greg. We're, we're like the Republicans versus the Democrats. It's very sad. He's clearly the Republican clearly how fuck you. Well, you do make more money than me.
00:14:26
Speaker
That just means I donate more than you. I'm in this center. So let's, so, so we're going to talk about free wheel and Kevin. Okay. We're not going to talk about free wheel. Hang on. Let's let Greg say whatever, uh, incredibly poignant thing he has to say. I really liked the way your facial hair looks today. Oh, it does look sexy.
00:14:45
Speaker
You look really good. All right. Well, that was that was actually pretty good. I'm glad I'm distracted by your good looks today. So this is what he does, though. He gives you a compliment about your look. Then he insults your intelligence. It's pretty abusive user. Yeah, he does have an abusive pattern. There's no doubt. But I sincerely, I sincerely mean both parts. Shut the fuck up and let me move on. Let's get into the episode. We haven't gotten any episode yet. Oh, all we've done is rehash our fucking hard work. No, I'm on the shoulders of John. I got a whole arc here, you dick. Sorry.
00:15:15
Speaker
Kevin from outside the paint. OK, that's a basketball reference, John. So three pointer. All right. So I may not be the smartest person in the world.
00:15:29
Speaker
Duh. But I love philosophy. So we're going to start with the philosophical perspective of free will. Idiots usually do. The concept of fate versus free will was prevalent in Greek tragedies where characters seemingly cannot escape their destinies. In Oedipus Rex, the idea of fate versus free will is a big deal. Oedipus, the main character, tries to avoid a terrible prophecy that says he'll kill his dad and marry his mom. No matter what he does to avoid it, he ends up doing it anyway. She was super hot, though.
00:15:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you can't blame him. She was really. Oh, I'd hit that. It's like the Rock Hill Welch. Even if even if it was you, even if she was your mom. No, my mom's a Jewish old lady. And no, I don't want that. That's what's stopping you. Yes. Not the ancestral part. You have no idea. Like, I mean, you know, she was 40 and hot. Sure. If she were 40 and hot, that would not work out very well, mathematically, John.
00:16:28
Speaker
No, but I'm just saying that's, you know, let's just say that for some reason there's a category on, I think it's called Pornhub. I heard it's usually step moms though. Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker
I think it's a whole family. It's like a whole family. This is weird about that. Stepbrothers, stepsister, brothers, sister, aunts, uncles, Teddy the Midget. I don't think I'm allowed to say that. Nope, you can't. I'm sorry. I apologize for using the word Teddy. I'm canceling John right now. I'm holding an X right in front of John's face.
00:17:03
Speaker
All right, so the Oedipus Rex story raises the philosophical question, do we really have control over our lives or is it all pre-written like a cosmic script? So before we continue, as far as the philosophical side of free will, I would love to get your initial opinions before we talk further about it.
00:17:25
Speaker
John, you go first because I have a lot to say about this. Well, man, it's a real mindfuck how I approach this because I would say yes. It's a mindfuck of a topic. But I would say yes and no. So I don't think there's some cosmic
00:17:41
Speaker
event where everything came together and I was born, right? Like, it would just happen to be the tiny... Oh, you just insulted your mom and dad having sex. I think it was a special event when you were born. Yeah. I don't think it was cosmic sex. I'm sure it was okay. Like, I don't feel... Earth shattering. I don't feel like the night it was conceived was, like, the best sex of their life. Listen, Beck and I have both had kids. When you're trying to have a baby, it's not super sexy. Yeah, right. It's just... It's a business transaction.
00:18:09
Speaker
Whoa, I don't know how you had sex. Well, she always left $20 on the table. I were both drunk. That wasn't very transactiony. Um, so I don't feel like John's mom and I were both drunk.
00:18:25
Speaker
Well, that's the only way she would have sex with you. So, so I don't, I don't, I don't think that we're like, yeah, I don't think it's like cosmic or it wasn't like this, this master's plane of the universe that I was born. But now that I am born, I don't think that I have free will. I have the ability to choose.
00:18:44
Speaker
But all those choices are coming from who I am as a person and everything that happened before so I don't think that I am able to make it. I can only make one choice and that choice is already laid out whether I realize it or not and I feel like I'm making a choice but I'm not.
00:19:03
Speaker
sort of like a personal predestination because of who you are as a person well everybody like everybody like in other words you're gonna make the choices you're gonna make Kevin because you're Kevin and you've had all the experiences you've had I haven't made I've had the same experiences so I may make different choices but those choices I'm making are not my free will even though
00:19:23
Speaker
What if John the future has already happened but you just don't remember it? And there is no such thing as this construct of time and everything is all at once. So free will and predestination, fate, whatever you want to call it, is meaningless anyway. Well, I mean, if you want to go that big, everything's meaningless. I did. Because we're all going to eventually, this whole thing's going to end.
00:19:51
Speaker
Like, not me, all of us, right? Like, the universe is going to expand into a point where everything is so cold and spread out that nothing can live, so... God, you always got to take it to the fucking... Well, I'm saying, if we're going to go that big... Well, I mean, we just got... technology's just got to keep up, that's all. How do you know that the end of the world isn't just like a bunch of... all the cotton candy you can eat?
00:20:11
Speaker
I don't know. That'd be awesome. That would be so- I do like cotton candy. I haven't had it in a long time. That is delicious. It is. Good call, Greg. I like the way it tickles your mouth a little bit on the way in. That's kind of tickle out, tickle, yeah. Cotton candy in hand job booths. That's the end of the- Hopefully it's not by the same person that's like handing you cotton candy and getting your hands out. The same guy who's got his hand in that machine. Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker
his fucking, his hair's all up in the air. Like he's been mixing it too long. Every, every cotton candy comes with just a little bit of jizz. There's nothing that is the secret ingredient. You know, that's, you can't do anything about it. That's, it's like not hell is kind of like earth.
00:20:55
Speaker
Greg, I already, I just told you, no, I didn't. I was going to say that was it, but it could, it could be that time is, is not linear and everything's already happened and we just don't know it yet, but I think as far as we will. So assuming, assuming that we are not in a matrix, which I, every fucking minute passes, it feels more and more like we could be.
00:21:17
Speaker
Um, and it feels like every kind of science fictiony fact that we ever learned, uh, is kind of coming true. Uh, you know, with aliens and with fucking, um, AI, AI. And you know, the Jetsons, every, all the technology, the Jetsons is coming true. So it just seems like we have a room anyway. What was her name? What was her dot dot?
00:21:45
Speaker
Um, I can't remember the cleaning, the maid, the robot, the robot maid.
Nature vs. Nurture: Shaping Identity
00:21:50
Speaker
Was it flow? It wasn't flow. That's Alice's diner. Yeah. Close. Um, anyway, either way, I think that, I think that there is free will, but it's confined. I, and I think this is what John was saying too. It depends where you are in, in your time and space in life.
00:22:10
Speaker
And your options are kind of hinged upon that. So if we were born into slavery in the 1000s, our free will would only exist within our own minds. And that would require a shit ton of optimism.
00:22:27
Speaker
optimistic thinking as well to kind of do that. Now, I think we feel like we have more free-mill wool, but we do have only, I think, a narrow amount of choices. And who knows if, you know, you zigged when you should have zagged if that would have led you to here or not.
00:22:48
Speaker
I kind of think so. We've, we've made choices about, you know, our fiances or spouses, and it got us to where we are now. And it just, it's a butterfly effect. It just keeps sliding doors, right? Was that, was that about that? Like choose your, choose your own adventure. So I think you do have, have options, but they're pretty limited. And, and the fact that we're three white dudes in 2023, we probably have the most options available at this time. Um,
00:23:17
Speaker
Well, I think it depends on what you're talking about. But I think it depends on what you're talking about, right? Because I feel like with cancel culture, and I know that's like, what does that mean? And what does it mean? And all these things, right? But with that, people self-censor, right? And so you choose, and I don't mean like saying some overtly racist thing, right? Like people who want to do that, do that. They use their free will to do that. But I mean, I don't know.
00:23:45
Speaker
I don't want to give an example because I don't want to get canceled, right? But like something that in our day would have been no big deal. You can't say anymore. And I'm not somebody who's like, oh, it's so unfair. Right. Oh, I know. Like, so that like, like he, she, they, them, all the pronouns, right? So like if I mess up and I say the wrong pronoun to someone because this person identifies as female.
00:24:01
Speaker
but they're male, right? Then they get mad at me and so then my free—my free will, my brain is gonna say like I'm registering them as male, right? But I know I self-censor so I change what I'm going to say based on the social response I'm gonna get. Right? But just the thought that you can change what you're gonna say is free will and you still could have chosen to not be sensitive to what people want to be called. So that still is free will.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, but it's free will with a heavy hand. In other words, it's like... It depends how much confrontation you want in your life. Right, right. Or not just confrontation. I definitely don't want to hurt someone's feelings or anything like that. So I guess there's all these things that are constantly coming into play about choices we make that are external as well as internal.
00:24:50
Speaker
So what you're saying is your choices, the consequences of your choices have changed within the last whatever 15 years, 20 years. But that doesn't necessarily impact your ability to still choose that path.
00:25:07
Speaker
It might be popular and it might lead you to a different place, but free will and fate and a destination I think is a little bit different than that. It's kind of the same, but it's a little different. It's true.
00:25:27
Speaker
It's like, yes, you're making the choice to say whatever you're going to say, but you're making that based on, you know, so we're constantly making choices. Our free will is constantly. But consequences. Yeah. You know, not just consequences or the rewards or whatever. Right. Like it's, you know, there's this whole system in social society where we're rewarded or punished. And of course, we'd rather be rewarded than punished. So it's like we will make choices for the reward.
00:25:56
Speaker
You haven't seen all the same videos that I have, buddy. Well, but that's a reward, right? Like, that is a reward. You know, like, so somebody is like, let's say somebody is very anti-woke, right? And they go out and they like push down a protester. Well, that's a dick move. And then, you know, so half the people in the world are gonna be like, that's a dick move. And the other half are gonna celebrate them, right? So they get a reward.
00:26:20
Speaker
You know, so that is not from everyone. Right. I agree. And and the free will part is. It's still free will. Yes, but it's definitely it's it's definitely free will that is not like in other words, nobody is my nobody's out making choices. We're not. So are you are you are you describing free will as no matter what decision or whatever action you decide to take? It's consequence free.
00:26:50
Speaker
No, no, no, I'm saying that, well, I would say, yes. I'm just trying to understand. Yes, I would say that. Yes, I would say that true free will would be for all of us to be able to do whatever we wanted, to make whatever choice we wanted based on what we wanted, right? Versus we make choices because we live in a society, and we should make choices based on that. I'm not telling, like I'm not... But there still is, like you just said there, that is a consequence though.
00:27:14
Speaker
Does the consequence matter though? Because if it's free will, you can do whatever you want. There are consequences, but it's still free will. So if you could go out and murder somebody because you have free will, your consequence is that you're going to go to jail, but the consequence doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it because maybe you don't get caught and you don't go to jail. It's still free will that you made the decision to do that.
00:27:38
Speaker
Right, yeah. But I'm saying it's, again, this is kind of like, I think, like on the last episode, Kevin, where it's like, it's very nuanced. So it's like, yes, it is free will, but if I can go out and kill someone and there's no consequences, then that is me, like in other words, if the only consequences or rewards were internal, right? So in other words, if I kill you, Kevin, I'm happy about that, or I'm sad about that, right? So then based on that internal feeling, I make a choice to do it or not do it.
00:28:07
Speaker
It'd be sad. I would be totally sad. But there could be a consequence to your choice that you didn't predict a year. There are no consequences, right? So if we live in a world where there's no consequences, then the only thing is how it makes me feel, right? So it doesn't matter how anyone else feels, what it does to anybody, none of that. It just matters how it makes me feel. So everyone's a sociopath.
00:28:34
Speaker
Right. Okay. So then I think, so Florida, I think those people have true free will because everything they choose to do is about them and what they want. Most again, the only thing I would push back on is, is why, why does it matter if there's a consequence or not? Because the consequence affects the choice you will make.
00:29:00
Speaker
Okay. Okay. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Right. So, so there are consequences. So no matter how. So you put the knife up and you're coming at me and then it goes, your brain goes, dude, you don't want to go to jail. I don't view that as free will. Like I don't view. That's I think what John's saying is it's not. I know, but I don't really see that it that way. Like I think that free will is having the choice to make consequences be damned. I have an opportunity to do something
00:29:27
Speaker
Right. But he's saying I think that if you might want to do something, knowing the consequences will change your decision on whether to do it or not. Right, John? Yes. That's just a limited aspect of free will because there's no such thing as 100% pure free will.
00:29:43
Speaker
We didn't get down on the percentages, Greg. Let's move on because we're going to have plenty more chances to get into this exact conversation. So during the Enlightenment, thinkers like John Locke came up with the idea of tabula rasa, which basically means blank slate. Wasn't John Locke in that show Lost? Yeah. I don't know. I didn't watch Lost.
00:30:10
Speaker
According to Locke, we're all born without built in ideas or fate hanging over us. This perspective says we're like empty notebooks and life experiences right in the pages shaping who we are and what we do. In this view, you're not stuck in a pre destiny and a preset destiny. You're more you're building yourself through choices and experiences. So according to Locke, you have a lot more control over your life's direction.
00:30:40
Speaker
That makes sense. So he's saying that you're not, you're, you're a blank slate when you're born. I mean, do you guys believe that? No.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, no, I don't either. Yeah, I don't either. What do you think? And now they're finding out that even emotions can be genetically inherited as well. Addiction and all sorts of stuff, yeah. So I don't think you're, but it's good to, I like when people have extreme viewpoints because it's good, especially philosophers, because it's a good starting point.
00:31:14
Speaker
Right. So maybe, maybe like, you know, a smaller percentage of it is kind of predetermined. And, but I mean, you fucking look at, look at how like, you know, John Banks might, his, his walk might look exactly like his dad's walk, for example. It's genetically inherited. So back to you, son of a bitch.
00:31:34
Speaker
But is it, is it genetically, is it genetically inherited or is it learned or is it something that he spent so much time with his dad growing up that he, he became that same way? I don't think so because most people don't want to be like, yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
But it's subconscious. It's not anything you're controlling. You're not going looking at your dad going, wow, he walks funny. I definitely don't want to walk like that. So you change the way you walk. You know, like you're just let's just let's just talk about something that's not a fucking just idiosyncrasy. Let's just talk about eye color. Like eye color is clear inherited. That has nothing to do with free will.
00:32:12
Speaker
Well, it could because it could if you have the right eye color, maybe that gets you the modeling gig that you shouldn't have gotten. Well, that would be the same as talent or anything else that you might get genetically, which we're going to get into. So let me keep going. So nature versus nurture. This is something that we've all
00:32:30
Speaker
We probably talked about this podcast before genetics, which would be nature. Our genes come loaded with instructions for everything from our eye color to certain personality traits. Some research even suggests genes can influence our likelihood of developing conditions like depression.
00:32:47
Speaker
Instincts, babies suck their thumbs and know how to cry for attention. Animals know how to hunt or hide without being taught. Versus nurture, upbringing and environment, social programming. From the moment we're born, society starts teaching us how to behave, what to believe, what's good and bad. And then there's cultural and economic factors. Depending on where you're born or the resources available to you, your life can be hugely impacted, which is like what Greg talked about with being born into slavery in the 1000s.
00:33:16
Speaker
So nurture nature, most people feel like there's probably a middle ground, like a blend of the two, you know, like if you might be born with a talent for music, but if you're, if you never encounter an instrument, you're not going to become a rock star. But it is an interesting thought to have because like one of the things that popped into my head was like Michael Phelps.
00:33:37
Speaker
you know, Michael Phelps, if he's never, if he's never introduced to, to swimming, like he used to do with a short term. So in long arms, right? Because that's what gave him the advantage. Well, that's just it. I mean, like what, what if, you know, what if someone who is just the best of the best at what they do, whatever sport, whatever instrument, whatever,
00:34:01
Speaker
artistic ability like what if they never picked up that instrument or picked up that paintbrush or whatever like what do you think do you think that people are drawn to things because they're born with certain talents or is it just kind of dumb luck I think it's way more
00:34:21
Speaker
Uh, I guess nurture right or way more with I I think that particular aspect is way more what is available to you. Sure, right. Um Versus where I think I think you're born with certain innate instincts where you're talking about like crying to so you get fed or you go to sleep we get change what you're basically you can't speak so you cry so your Caretakers know there's something wrong
00:34:43
Speaker
Right. So that's, that's, uh, born with, but I think like alert, you know, so, but you, right. You could be the greatest piano player in the world or have that in you, but if you don't have a piano or, you know, even, you know, you live in a country where every day you have to walk 10 miles to get clean water, you're never going to be a piano player. Right. Versus if you're, if you're born into, you know, uh, uh, middle-class family or more, you know, you're born into a wealthy country.
00:35:10
Speaker
where your family has, you know, a piano or you go to a school and there's a piano, you know, in other words, just like that. And you hear stuff on the radio and then, you know, there's all these things that will steer you towards that.
00:35:26
Speaker
Right. So so your base, you know, yeah. So no, right. So in other words, I don't I don't think I don't think people go like, oh, I'm good at music. So I'm going to play. I was I was amazing at alto saxophone. I really was like, I was just like I picked it up. I understood it. Everybody
Socratic Influences on Free Will Debate
00:35:39
Speaker
knows that. Give them a tenor. Yeah. Lost. But that alto. Yeah.
00:35:44
Speaker
And I didn't really like, I was really, I had a really good natural talent and there was another guy I went to high school with who didn't have a really good natural talent but he got music lessons, he practiced and he went on to be like, he's played with like PB King and he's like a professional musician, right? I could have done that but I didn't want to, right? Like whatever my upbringing was, whatever my situation was in that family
00:36:06
Speaker
It was like, oh, actually, I know what happened. Like my dad, my senior year, my dad decided he was going to get involved in my life. And so he tried to like do as much as he could with music. And so that drove me away from that. Right. So if he hadn't done that, maybe I would not know. You know, well, I mean, it wasn't his fault. Right. You know, he was just trying to, you know, he was just maybe the previous 16 years, 16 years, totally. You know, but he was just all of a sudden he was trying to connect with me at a point where, you know,
00:36:35
Speaker
genetically and evolutionary, I want to get away from him, right? And I didn't have the best relationship with him. So it's like, I don't want you in my fucking life. I don't want you in the fucking life. And you were at a tough age too. Yeah. And it's like, so he's just ruining the thing that I loved, right? So, but who knows, right? Who knows if I would have been born to a dad who hadn't gone to Vietnam and didn't have an alcoholic father. You know, it's like, so in other words, and that's why I say that we don't have free will.
00:36:59
Speaker
Because I am going to make choices and my dad made choices and his team is like, we all make choices based on everything that has happened to us. So the choice we make, we think we're making the choice, but we really don't have a choice in it because we, with all the information in our brain, we can only make that choice. I think there is a blend because you do have a choice about whether, you know, you moved to California and the way that you did it first, you went to Arizona and then you came to California. I mean, there's, there's different.
00:37:27
Speaker
There's different things that came up and maybe you've made some hasty, just hasty decisions that had a huge impact on your life. And hasty decisions as well. And hasty ones, of course. But I don't think there's no, there's no free will. I think it is a blending and obviously all of your experiences influence what your, what your decisions are going to be. But there's, there's been,
00:37:52
Speaker
Plenty of times where we've come to a crossroad in our lives where we could have gone one way or the other and you know, you gotta make that leap. Some people never make that decision. Some people are like, you know what, I'm gonna wear my hat facing forward. Some people are like, I'm gonna wear my hat backwards.
00:38:05
Speaker
That is absolutely true. And today I decided to wear it facing, you know, maybe not the way society wants me to. Most people. But all right. I don't give a fuck. Let me let me pivot to something a little more serious as far as this goes, or at least a little more like this. So far it's been a fucking riot. So, yeah, this nature, this nature versus nurture.
00:38:27
Speaker
You guys have been very funny. The nature versus nurture discussion comes up a lot with things like homosexuality, you know, which is in the news, you know, as far as like, you know, not teaching kids about certain things, you know, until they're older, because some people say, you know, you're either you're born with tendencies towards homosexuality or your it's a learned behavior. Do you guys think that is blended? Is that something you're 100 percent born with or 100 percent not?
00:38:55
Speaker
I think I'm going to take this one, John, because you really talked for a very long time and it was riveting and I enjoyed it. So I'm going to go ahead and take this one. I think the easiest way to get people to shut the fuck up that are anti
00:39:12
Speaker
People that it could be on a sexual spectrum or continuum is to say that, yeah, you're born that way because that way it's inarguable. And if it's something that if it's nature, you know, you don't have a choice in that shit. So it's like, fuck you.
00:39:28
Speaker
Um, fuck you, this is who I am and it's how I am. But I think that there are varying degrees, places in time in our society and others where it's either acceptable or not. Like just variances as opposed to just being, if you're just heterosexual, it seems as though that is what's accepted worldwide.
00:39:51
Speaker
If you're anything different, then it threatens people. And so now you have people that are going through more trans experiences than ever before. Does that mean that there's more trans people now than ever before? Does that mean that society has accepted it more so more people have been more free to be themselves? Personally, my opinion is
00:40:13
Speaker
I don't care because whatever people either choose or are, if they're living life to their fullest and whatever they want to do is totally fine with me. I don't care enough about what other people consenting adults do when they're
00:40:34
Speaker
Fucking as long as they're not hurting anybody and not taking advantage of minors and all those things. I mean, we've talked about that before, but but you have a lean on which one is there. Do you see it as a nurture or a nature? No, I would hope that we're born. We're kind of born that way. I know that like just there have been so many people that have said they've known since the time that they could process thoughts that they were that they were either gay or like they weren't in the right gender. They didn't feel right in their own bodies.
00:41:02
Speaker
That's for plenty of people who had like macho dads who were very anti gay or something and then they're closeted and all that stuff that you hear those stories as well. Yeah. And also the way society treats you, who wants to go through like being called names and beaten shit out of and all that for being true to themselves. It's just it's a pain in the ass. So now our society seems to be a lot more accepting of it. So obviously more people are going to be true to themselves. I
00:41:32
Speaker
I guess I only hope that it's nature just because it just makes it seem like at least you don't have to fucking argue it anymore. If you're gonna say it's purely nurturer, then you're gonna take people and try and have them deprogrammed and then you're also gonna have people that are potentially homosexuals be self loathing because why do I feel this way? I should change myself. And if you're kind of born that way, at least I feel like it removes a lot of fucking heartache.
00:42:01
Speaker
Here's, and I also, I think that, you know, I think it is a spectrum, right? And so it is, it is nature, right? But then, you know, I think that's the, I think there are people who know when they're born, right? Or not when they're born, but like, you know, like, I mean, there's people who go, Oh, I knew when I was three, I knew when I was four, right? I don't remember when I was three. I don't know what the fuck I did when I was three, but I do remember being like four. And I remember like being really attracted to women. I was super into girls at three.
00:42:26
Speaker
Yeah, and so you know and but but you know, I think there's also there's a wide range of people who are Don't know who are kind of you know Ambiguous or ambivalent right and and then and then you kind of I think that's when you're a teenager you experiment with things you know, and so in kind of what Greg's saying is like, you know, so then I think that's when the nurture comes in where it's like you you
00:42:51
Speaker
Like how many how many how many people do we know that like dyed their hair black and went all gothy? You know when they were teenagers and now they're like just fat bald dude So it's like Yeah, anyway, you know, so I think that I'm getting off track here. But but yes, I think it's I think it's nature I think I think it's all nature as far as sexual Preference or desire whatever you want to call it. I think it's you know again I think I think it's as much nature as your eye color
00:43:21
Speaker
Right so if you're if you're born bisexual you're gonna be bisexual now you may choose not you may choose to be with women because of what society does but inside you're bisexual or you're straight or you're gay or whatever. And all the and I would hope to live in a society where it doesn't matter yeah exactly right yeah and I think that if you know.
00:43:41
Speaker
A lot of the the younger Gen Z people are like that. They just don't. It's just that it's not. There is no gay straight. It's just equal opportunity. You know, it's whoever I fell in love with. I fell in love with. I fell in love with you, too. Hold on one second, because there is a. Oh, a giant people in my room right now. There's a baby giant second. Hey, can you get the fuck out of here?
00:44:09
Speaker
Sorry. That's that's that's nurture, but I'm not sure what you're trying to teach there. All right. So let's let's move on to the next part of this. And for those of you waiting, I feel like just a real quick explanation. My son and his friend came in here to see they knew I was doing the podcast. They just kind of wanted to be on camera. So that's why I told them to get the fuck out.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah. No, no. We should talk to their 17 year old son that way. 15, 15. Oh wow. Okay. Well he's bigger than you. He really is. He can beat the living shit out of you if you wanted to. So it's fine. You can
Quantum Physics and Free Will: A Mind-Bending Exploration
00:44:49
Speaker
talk to him if you want. Cause he, but I got that. I got that down strength.
00:44:53
Speaker
No, no, you don't. He's afraid of it. I do. Yeah. He won't be afraid of that for much longer. All right. So in addition to philosophy, another topic I love that is oftentimes confusing is physics. I briefly mentioned last episode that, uh, physics was pretty straightforward.
00:45:13
Speaker
Okay, well then keep listening. I briefly mentioned last episode that some believe that if we're all a collection of atoms and molecules that behave a certain way and have a certain function, atoms and eves, how can we have free water? Not atoms and steves. I was ridiculed by you assholes because of that.
00:45:34
Speaker
Oh shit, I'm stepping all over Kevin's insults to us. It's fine. I edit you out later. So let's dive into some more stuff and we'll get into some mind bending stuff. I want to challenge you guys here, all right? So a classical physics idea, determinism,
00:45:53
Speaker
something called Laplace's Demon. The idea by Pierre-Simon Laplace that if a super intelligent entity, which he refers to as a demon, knew the precise location and momentum of every atom in the universe, it could predict the future with complete accuracy.
00:46:19
Speaker
I mean, I can approve that right or wrong. You can't, but if, if you believe that though, if you believe that, you know what, we'll continue. So, so, so, so, so I, so I,
00:46:38
Speaker
would say that being able to predict, right, so I mean, first of all, I mean, the intelligence you would have to have like the grand design. So then I would say yes, if you could do that, if you could know the momentum and energy of every atom that was happening in the universe, then I would say yes, you could probably predict the future. Then how could you have free will? Well, because you're talking about two different things.
00:47:05
Speaker
No, I'm saying that if that were possible, then how can free will exist?
00:47:12
Speaker
All right, well, free will doesn't exist. Thanks so much. I don't understand just by knowing what every atom is in the universe because you would know what would give the ability to predict the future. I would know what the atoms in your body are going to do because based on the atoms, I would know what you're going to do. We're talking about time though. We're talking about time and moving and stuff.
00:47:35
Speaker
So then decisions are fluid and they're constantly how are they? So that's the whole point is how much do you believe in the atoms and the particles and all that stuff? So let's let's continue This leads me into one of my favorite things that I think is really fascinating is quantum physics So quantum physics is the branch of science that deals with the behavior of matter and energy at the tiniest scales like atoms and subatomic particles It's famous for being weird and corner intuitive with
00:48:05
Speaker
With particles acting like both particles and waves and things being in multiple states at once until it's observed, it's the rule book for how the smallest parts of the universe behave. So traditional classical physics, which includes Newtonian mechanics, fails to accurately describe phenomena at these really, really super small scales.
00:48:29
Speaker
So quantum physics provides the theoretical framework for explaining these behaviors and has led to practical applications in various technologies like transistors, lasers, and quantum computing.
00:48:42
Speaker
So this is kind of one of the things that I, that kind of what we talked about before. So there's a rule in quantum physics called Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which basically says you can't know everything about a tiny particles speed and location at the same time. It's like trying to watch a super fast hummingbird. You either see where it is or how fast it's moving around, but not both. Does that make sense?
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah. Heisenberg, he made meth. I knew one of us was going to say that. Yeah, I had a feeling somebody was going to say that too.
00:49:20
Speaker
So tiny particles sometimes act like they're in multiple places until we look and then they decide where to be specifically as if they're playing like hide and seek. So the uncertainty principle adds an element of randomness or unpredictability at the quantum level. So if the fundamental particles that make up our universe and by extension us are not strictly deterministic,
00:49:51
Speaker
then it could be argued that our actions too have some level of unpredictability or freedom. So you're articulating exactly the argument that I was just making before. I did both of them. So you starting with, with the idea that if we could see all the, basically this, yes, this was, that was a counterpoint to it. It's two quantum theories that one supports. It's separate theories that basically say like the same thing, but different, like basically saying
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah, basically saying that like if you can if you can understand all the atoms and what they're going to do, then you can see the future. But if atoms are if particles are going to be so, so unpredictable and do all these crazy things like be two places at once until we observe them.
00:50:42
Speaker
then then there's enough randomness in the world where it shouldn't be planned out, which in turn would say that we do have a free will, even if you believe in the particles and all the atoms. So if people, I wanted to lay both of those out. So if people believe in the latter, as opposed to the former naming their kids, Adam, does that mean quantum physics goes away in a hundred years? Yes. Cool. Everyone's particle. You got to stop. People got to stop naming their daughter's particle.
00:51:10
Speaker
Oh, particle banks. I would totally name like a particle. I know you would. So what do you guys I mean, what do you think? What do you think of that? I mean, it's it's it's I think it's very interesting because I do kind of believe that, like, you know. Another thing that I that I actually wanted to bring up to is like so. So this says it's not a straightforward jump from quantum uncertainty to human free will.
00:51:38
Speaker
After all, our daily experiences are not governed by quantum mechanics in an easily discernible way. However, just because there's randomness in the quantum world, does that necessarily mean that we still can control?
00:51:53
Speaker
Well, assuming you believe in this, in, in this, this quantum mechanics idea, just because it's random, does that mean that we, that we are able to like take advantage of that and make decisions on our own? I don't, I don't think Adam's doing anything has any influence one way or the other on how our brains work. Right. I think it's more about life experience, our experience.
00:52:19
Speaker
Atoms are literally in your brain. No, no, I know. That's where the gray area is. So I guess I'll say this. There are so many things we don't understand, right? Like we don't know why I touch this table and it's hard, but I do this and I can move my hand freely through the air, but it's the same amount of atoms, right?
00:52:41
Speaker
So why is it like we say, Oh, it's the arrangement of the molecules. Okay, great. It's the arrangement of molecules, but we don't know why that particular arrangement stops my hand from going through it. So then I would say, I mean, is it possible? Yes. My brain is too fucking small and I'm too stupid as you played back earlier. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I have something for this. But I am this stupid, right?
00:53:03
Speaker
There you go. Okay. So it's like I can only wrap my head around like the emotional side of it and the neural pathway part of it. I don't know, man. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. I am so far away from that that I came here to have an opinion about it. John's finally saying something I completely agree with. He is just too fucking stupid.
00:53:29
Speaker
I'm super stupid. I am super stupid. I don't even know why my opinion would matter to anybody besides. I don't even think you two assholes care about my. I don't know. I think. Well, no, that's true. But I know I'm saying like, like, I think these are the fun things to talk about. I like having this conversation.
00:53:50
Speaker
And I think that there's a lot, you know, a lot of people, maybe people are finding this episode boring. I don't know. But but I think that it's there's a lot of ideas out there that are somewhat counterintuitive or certainly, certainly counter to what, you know, we've been thought to or told to think for a long time or even what scientists have believed. So then let me add. So do you know what do you know what quantum entanglement is?
00:54:13
Speaker
I know a little bit about quantum entanglement, but not enough to really have a good conversation about it. John does, so let's go. I know Einstein hated it. Going with your theory or going with either theory, either one, you could say, so quantum entanglement basically is that
00:54:31
Speaker
Um So let's say these two Particles are forced together these two atoms are forced together and you get them spinning in the the atoms You get them spinning in exactly the same way the exact same speed direction everything, right? So now they start reacting to each other and you take one of these particles and you move it out a trillion light years away
00:54:53
Speaker
So far, just say far, just far. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, but so far, a trillion months. Oh, good point. We should go back to what John said. So, so, and you, and so one's out there and one's here and you change the direction that Adam will immediately react and change and we'll match that other Adam that you just changed. Right. So with that, then you could say, okay.
00:55:16
Speaker
We don't have free will based on that theory because it's just atoms connected to atoms. And so basically if it's all like cosmic, then basically, you know, kind of that thing where they believe that there was kind of this moment where all of a sudden people started drawing on caves. And then there's this moment where they created tools and they didn't have contact with each other. So it was kind of in the zeitgeist.
00:55:37
Speaker
So then I guess you could argue that the zeitgeist is the atoms, and the atoms are the ones communicating, and those atoms are somehow going into your neurons and giving you this idea that's not your idea, but you think it's your idea. Yeah, that's actually mind-bending as well. I just came out of my pants. I'm not real sure why.
00:56:01
Speaker
I think you understand what mind-bending is. I think it's really cool that we can have these conversations and these discussions and you're never going to get to the bottom of it. I don't think you're ever going to figure it out. Maybe someday we will as a society, but not in our lifetime. Probably not in our lifetime. What I always go to is, does your opinion about another person's life... Let's back it up a little bit. Does your opinion about free will versus predestination
00:56:32
Speaker
influence your opinion or judgment about another person's decisions that they've made in their lives. So let's say you believe in free will, and you just don't like what Kevin has done with his life. You don't like the clothes he wears, you don't like his pasty hair, you don't like his tattoos, you don't like his hair style. You see pasty hair? Yeah, he's got pasty hair. And so you do, it is pasty. It's kind of wet. It's kind of a paste.
00:57:02
Speaker
Okay. It's a style. All right. Thank you. Okay. I put, actually it is paid. I put paste in my hair. So that was actually very accurate. Yes. Yeah. It's like a, I just take Elwood's like glue stick and I just put it in my hair. It works beautifully. It looks like it. So another words, it's, I couldn't find my backwards cap. That's obvious. If there's no such thing as free.
Religious Perspectives on Free Will
00:57:33
Speaker
There's obviously no free will because they didn't finish the fucking thought. Definitely not free will on this podcast.
00:57:41
Speaker
But if there's no such thing as free, if there is free will, then you can blame people for their fucking, you can talk shit about them. You can gossip about them because they made their choices and let's, you know, experience Schrodin Schrodin Freud or whatever the fuck that German word is for relish in people's misery. Um, but if there's not, then it's not as much fun.
00:58:04
Speaker
because you're like, eh, it was going to happen anyway. Well, I do think there should be, so I, and this is again, we're, so I do, again, I don't think we have free will. And I do think that because I think those outside forces affect how we make choices, we have to have consequences for bad decisions, right? Or badge, even though I don't technically think if you murder someone, you actually had free will in that murder.
00:58:28
Speaker
As a society, we have to say, no, you can't do that because then that the next person who wants to go murder someone will have that outside influence of like, I don't want to go to jail, so I'm not going to murder. But that's that's what I'm saying is when I don't think people truly have free will because you are we are constantly making choices and the reason we have based on outcomes. Right. But just because just because you're making a choice
00:58:53
Speaker
a decision that leads to less confrontation or an easier ride along this road, doesn't mean that you could not have gone the other way. You still could have- Yeah, I'm not right. My argument is not that, or my, it's not that that is the only reason we don't have free will, but I think that is part of the reason we don't have free will. It's just something that's influencing your choices, because you're a human being on the planet, and you know if you hit yourself in the head with a hammer, it's gonna fucking hurt.
00:59:21
Speaker
So you're going to try and avoid things that are going to hurt you. Even let's let's forget about the actions hurting others. Yeah. Just even yourself. Right. So I don't know. My kid threw a rock up in the air the other day and it smacked him right in the face. That's I'm sorry that happened. And then and then he did it six more times. He's definitely not a sense. He just got lucky that he threw a rock at his dad.
00:59:49
Speaker
And so just because the universe might have some randomness doesn't mean that we're making free choices. After all, flipping a coin to make a decision is random, but it's not exactly for old men. Yes. The no country for old men rule.
01:00:02
Speaker
You could also argue that our brains are more than just physics. Our thoughts and choices might be more than just how atoms move. For example, love is a very complex feeling with a lot of depth. It's not easy to see how physics can explain an emotion like that. However, here's a part that I struggle balancing with. Balancing is if we are,
01:00:27
Speaker
atoms and molecules and particles and all that stuff and moving around and doing their dance and doing all that stuff. We're in that scenario, does it stop and end somewhere? So does it does it or stop and ends? Does it start and end somewhere? So my body is moving. That's all the button where you say you're stupid.
01:00:46
Speaker
No, no, I don't know that's ridiculous. I'm gonna hire some people get that done. Let me let me try this one. I'm super stupid Nope, that wasn't it either. Maybe this one is stupid. No, sorry. That was the only two I have
01:00:59
Speaker
Oh, how about this one? That's my stupid one. That's what I sound like. Everything you're doing proves that you're stupid. But so, but that's something that I have a hard time with is the fact that if, if, you know, if we are particles and, and, and atoms and molecules and all that stuff, then, then if our brains are more than that, what else is more than that? You know what I mean? So is it, how can, how can that, can that give us the guidance for certain parts and not every part, if that makes sense?
01:01:30
Speaker
That does make sense. You're discussing John Banks's soul. And, you know, you can't, you can't chalk that up to atoms and particles. It's more of a spirit, man.
Final Reflections and Humorous Wrap-Up
01:01:41
Speaker
Well, the soul is, is, is not real, Craig.
01:01:46
Speaker
Well, it's atoms. So do you think you think you think that so somewhere like out in space, like some other galaxy that there's like someone playing drop it like it's hot and it's like reverberating through like the entire universe because of the atoms? Could be. Why not? Drop it like it's hot.
01:02:11
Speaker
I admittedly, John, I got to be honest. I don't know what you're talking about. It was nothing. Let's move on. Okay. It wasn't real. No, no, no. I was just saying like, I don't know. I was just, I just had a thought. I wanted to share with you guys. I think possibilities are endless and anything, especially if you believe, you know, I had a, you know, we, we, we don't need to spend much time on religion since everyone who listens to this podcast knows our thoughts on that.
01:02:37
Speaker
The whole idea, that's something very big that religious people will say is, well, God gave us free will. If you say something like, hey, why does so many bad things happen in this world to good people? And why are people such dicks if we're made in God's image? Well, we have free will. Well, and that's just like if you read the Bible, like, and I haven't read other religious texts, but I definitely have sat and read the Bible. And I mean, God's kind of a dick.
01:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, he is like he's not like he also loves you. He loves you. He's like an abusive fucking psychopath. He loves you, but he also loves to give kids bone cancer and he killed his own son. He could have he could have just said, hey, guess what, guys?
01:03:21
Speaker
I'm going to forgive you your sins. I'm just going to do that. Here I am. I'm God. I'm real. All right. Now let's save my son's life. That doesn't mean that he didn't want the human experience to involve suffering.
01:03:36
Speaker
Well, I mean, why did he want that? Why is he so sadistic? Is that is that sadism? Or maybe he just started this planet and this world for us. And by God, I mean maybe the aliens that populated the planet. I'm not talking about what you're going to find in any kind of book. I'm just talking about maybe something started at all and started us off and said, here you go. It's yours. Just do. I gave you the tools. You guys decided what you're going to fucking do with it.
01:04:03
Speaker
I mean I do think it's a strange decision and it is it is crazy like to think like you know to be an atheist it really is this crazy thing of like because you know why is the Big Bang less ridiculous to me than some being created us?
01:04:20
Speaker
I don't know why right like do i have free will in that choice like at some you know again and i think it's because of like i see it that way because of. Where i grew up how i grew up in my experience right. If you're an atheist the only way to fucking it doesn't matter what if you're an atheist like you know a hundred five hundred years ago and you never even heard of the big bang three.
01:04:41
Speaker
Right, right It doesn't that's not why you're an atheist But what I'm saying is like I will look at that and I will say okay that makes that I can Imagine happened Right. So there was nothing and this little ball of energy like exploded and now there's everything and it took four billion years for us to be here but like, you know, but it's but but then our 11 billion or whatever the hell it is and
01:05:10
Speaker
You know, but I will believe that, but I won't believe that some being created us. Well, I think that everything we've talked about today, whether it's free will or fate or we didn't even touch, we didn't even touch on karma. But, uh, if there is a God or if there's not, if there's nature, if it's nature versus nurture, if it's your fucking genes that made you walk like your dad or not. Um,
01:05:38
Speaker
My opinion is you're never gonna get the bottom of it. You're never gonna fucking know so I'm not gonna like jump into any one camp for any of these things because I could see anything being possible and I honestly don't give enough of a fuck to even Pick a side on all these things whether to say there is a God or isn't or whether it is that atheists are right I think atheists believe atheism is believing in nothing just as strongly as
01:06:05
Speaker
people that are theologians believe in something that is something. I'm more like, okay, that can happen. And maybe we find out after we die. Maybe we don't.
01:06:16
Speaker
OK, so before I get to go ahead. Well, I was just going to say like I wasn't like I understand what you're saying and I wasn't trying to get the religious. I was just basically trying to connect that to the free will where basically. Did I have free will in choosing to be atheist, right? Or am I atheist because of everything that has happened in my life and what led me to that moment? I think you're just because because because you enjoy you enjoying taking
01:06:45
Speaker
counterpoints. You enjoy playing devil's advocate. You kind of relish the opportunity to try and blow up people's
01:07:00
Speaker
institutions, not physically dynamite. No, he's not doing that, but I think he just enjoys making people think and, and, and thinking about both sides of it. I do that. I do. And so he can also say, you're wrong. See if every, even one person of what I'm saying is accurate, that means there's a little chink in your armor. Okay. Before I get to last call,
01:07:30
Speaker
Are you going to get the second the last call? Are you choosing? Does free will exist? Yes or no? No. In some small way, yes. So yes, you're saying yes. Do you believe we are made up of particles and atoms? Yes. Yes. Greg, how can both be true? And other shit too.
01:07:52
Speaker
Cause we don't know everything, man. I don't, I can't say anything with any sense of certainty of anything. That's what I just said. I know, but I'm just, I just did free will. And I think that we're made up of particles and atoms. I don't fucking know. I don't even have a microscope. I have to trust. I have to trust a lot of fucking people that are seeing a lot of shit.
01:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. People in white lab coats. I tend to believe scientists more than I believe people that are flying in fucking jets and taking your money or telling you you're going to fucking spend eternity in health. You don't pay me money. So I kind of believe the scientists, but maybe they're fucking wrong.
01:08:32
Speaker
I don't know. I'm really leaning towards us being in a fucking matrix and we're all on an answer farm right now. I'm actually hoping I can buy my way into heaven because I'm going to just send some money off just in case. Right. Yeah. Just in case. I've been saving for it too, John. Yeah. I don't want to like go to church. I don't want to do things, but if I can just- No, God. No, no, no, no, no. If I can live my life without their moral weirdness, then yeah. Don't want any part of that. A lot of work.
01:09:01
Speaker
I like weekends. All right, boys. Last call. Cheers to all the atoms and particles floating around that give me alcohol and the chance to talk about this shit with you two knuckleheads every other week. Cheers. Handed in almost a nice way. Classic abuser.