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Poyais Hoax: History's Ultimate Land Scam | History Defeats Itself Comedy Podcast
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Dive into the captivating story of the Poyais Scheme, the ultimate historical scam by Gregor MacGregor, who sold dreams of a nonexistent paradise to hundreds. Explore how this 19th-century con artist created Poyais, duping settlers and investors alike, and the stark reality that awaited them. From MacGregor's early exploits to the scheme's fallout and its place in the annals of financial frauds, this episode uncovers the allure of utopian dreams and the timeless lessons of history's audacious scams.
https://linktr.ee/historydefeatsitself
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Premise
00:00:00
Speaker
Now look like now Greg looks like he's he's being summoned to heaven. Oh, oh, better than the alternative. He's Jewish. Send him back down. He doesn't belong in this heaven. You took the wrong escalator, sir. Your escalator goes down. Jesus.
00:00:29
Speaker
Jesus Christ. So far I'm having a lot of fun.
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello and welcome to History Defeats Itself. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thank you for joining us. We are a comedy podcast that wonders why do people never seem to learn from our history?
Elon Musk Satire and Billionaire Influence
00:01:04
Speaker
Why? Of course, I am joined by my two co-hosts, two men who are also being sued by Elon Musk for the rights to the Handjob Hut franchise, Greg, Mitchell and John. Thanks. Hey, Kevin. We got a lawyer up, apparently.
00:01:21
Speaker
You what? What'd you say? We have to lawyer up. Well, Kevin's Kevin's our attorney. So. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm still taking those night classes, just not real consistently. I believe in you. OK, well, that makes one of us. Yep. Did you guys hear about that, how he's suing OpenAI Elon Musk for what? How do you do that? Well, he's basically so he helped found it. But then.
00:01:45
Speaker
They wouldn't let they wouldn't let Tesla buy the company. So he left. And now he's suing them, saying that their original mission was supposed to be as a nonprofit, even though there are emails circulating about him telling them that a nonprofit is never going to work. And you've got to make money in order to do this. So he's basically he's a fucking wack job. He really he really has gone off the rails. Like I don't know nuts, man. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's his fault. He's he's still the richest guy on the planet.
00:02:15
Speaker
I think it's like him and Bezos just keep going back and forth, I think. Yeah. And so it's not really their fault anymore. You go crazy. Too much money, too much power, not enough taxes. Definitely not enough taxes. Everyone's got a crossbar. It's weird that we have this whole belief that just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at everything. All right. So it's like he's certainly good at building companies and he's definitely good at
00:02:40
Speaker
scaring people into working or whatever he does. Just because you're good at starting a company doesn't mean you know everything. Anytime a billionaire talks to people like, oh, so-and-so said this, it's like, yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
they were good at one thing and they're very good at that thing, right? But it's like, or as far as financially they've done very well, but it doesn't mean that they're fucking, they know everything. Like John, for example, is really, really good at growing a beard. And then everyone assumes that he's going to be good at a podcast and he's just not. I know. I know. I don't think people assume that they assume he's going to be good at like, I don't know, like fishing from a canoe or something like that. Just living off the land in general.
Retail Adaptation to Class Division
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah. Just living off the land. Exactly. Yeah. If the shit goes down, I'm coming to you and I'm going to die early.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I don't know what to do. Not the right horse to back there. Yeah. If the whole foods closes during the civil war fucked. So I was reading about how whole foods is trying, is thinking about like making their, their stores much smaller. Oh.
00:03:46
Speaker
Okay. Well, because they're not making enough money on their $95 chicken. Well, like, did you hear about Macy's? So Macy's is like, uh, it's closing a bunch of stores and then they're going to rebrand the ones more towards wealthy clients and make them much smaller. Oh, that's nice of them. Yeah. And then there's. Whole Foods might do the same.
00:04:05
Speaker
I mean, I think with the class division, we have more poor people and more rich people, and the middle class is eroding. So I think that's probably a good move on Macy's part. I know, right? I think that actually is pretty smart. Hey, I just realized, am I the only one drinking? I'm drinking water.
00:04:21
Speaker
So, okay. Well, I, I didn't do, I didn't do my shot, my lone shot, which is now I just look like an alcoholic, not like alcoholic for years. So this is not fun alcoholic. I mean, are you though? I played shuffleboard with you and I was like, why the fuck are we playing shuffleboard? I thought you guys were going to move here. You love you had so much fun. I mean, we did have fun, but not, not the shuffleboard.
00:04:44
Speaker
Does Kevin jiggle a lot when he plays shuffleboard? I could see him being a shuffleboard jiggler. A jiggler? Yeah, like he jiggles. No, I'm a juggalo. Only when I play shuffleboard though. That's why he's so pale. That black makeup really stands out on his pale white face. That's right. That's right.
00:05:05
Speaker
OK, well, that was fun. Let's get to the let's get out. How are you, Kevin? Oh, I forgot. I am doing very well. Thank you, John. And I do not expect any guest appearances by my son today. So we should be fine. Well, that's a shame because that was a highlight. It was probably the best part of the entire show ever. Yeah.
Historical Financial Bubbles
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah. I agree. History of the show and the history of defeating itself. All right. The year is 1719.
00:05:35
Speaker
In France, a man named John Law convinced the government to back a company controlling trade in the French territories of North America. The promise of vast wealth led to an investment frenzy. In 1720, the bubble burst when it became clear that the expected riches were vastly exaggerated and the company could not fulfill its promises, resulting in financial ruin for many investors.
00:06:00
Speaker
Also in 1720, the South Sea company froze. What? You froze. You froze. Did I really? You really did. But this isn't important. I'm back now. I haven't really listened since you said, welcome to history defeated. It's okay. Five years ago. Okay.
00:06:21
Speaker
The South Sea Company, formed in 1711, was granted a monopoly to trade with South America and promised to assume a large portion of the national debt accumulated during the War of Spanish Succession.
00:06:33
Speaker
In 1720, speculation drove the company's stock prices to unrealistic heights based on exaggerated claims of potential profits from trade. When investors realized the profits were nowhere near expectations and the company's trade prospects were not as lucrative as advertised, the bubble burst.
Gregor MacGregor's Audacious Scam
00:06:49
Speaker
Stock prices plummeted, causing widespread financial ruin among investors, which included many members of the British aristocracy. No, how do you say that? I sound like John.
00:07:03
Speaker
I'm not going to help you. A risk across the atrocities, atrocities. Have you guys heard the Gilbert Godfrey joke? The aristocrats just his. It's not just his. It's like, well, I meant his fucking version. You guys just have to pick everything apart. You know what I meant? Isn't that basically like a family that just like fucks each other? His version. You got to listen to it. So we're going to pause while you can. Because it's fucking incredible.
00:07:34
Speaker
OK, well, that's for another episode. So the reason I mentioned both of these is because they both could have and should have been warnings to people in the future. But of course, humans never learn from their history, which brings us to the early 19th century.
00:07:50
Speaker
Europe was awash with tales of new lands rich in resources and ripe for colonization. This era, marked by the end of the Napoleonic Wars, saw a surge in speculative investments and a collective yearning for new beginnings. Collective yearning? Urinating?
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I said that weird yearning yearning amidst this backdrop. We find a charismatic Scottish soldier who saw an an opportunity to exploit the era's mix of optimism and naivety. Was it Glenn Close? No, you're close, though. No, no pun intended. He concocted one of history's most audacious and tragic scams. The Poya scheme and the man was Gregor MacGregor.
00:08:36
Speaker
Oh, fuck. Yeah, it was. Yes. Gregor Gregory McGregor from Gregor and Gregor down. He's the mayor. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why would you do that? Because that's awesome. Because he's running out of names after all. Did you see that the Colorado Avalanche just signed a guy named Ivan Ivan? I did see that. Yeah. And the Blackhawks drafted a guy named Marcel Marcel.
00:09:06
Speaker
I don't know what it's going on. It's so man born on December 24th, 1786 in Glendale, Scotland and Glendale, California. Gregor McGregor hailed from the McGregor clan. That makes sense. That tracks. Yep. Yep. A family with a storied and turbulent history in the Scottish Highlands. The McGregor clan had a long history of conflict with the Scottish and British authorities, often romanticized in later years.
00:09:35
Speaker
in 1803. We're a romantic lot. Oh, we do is wine and dine each other and 69.
00:09:47
Speaker
You know, honestly, this, this, uh, I'm 69. Wait, you 69 with your family. No, but that's your family. We 69 each year. There's you to go to the next village is like a five days walk. You're fucking each other. That's, you know, and you're wearing anywhere and killed. So it's easy access for everyone and your cannibals. And honestly, this was, I'm glad you wore that your hat for this episode. This is perfect.
00:10:13
Speaker
There we go. Hey, they're always up to me. They're lucky charms. That was basically making fun of two cultures, two birds, one stone. So thank you. I don't believe that the leprechaun and the lucky charms commercials wears a hat like that.
00:10:31
Speaker
Well, no, he did before 1947. 1947 was just a guy with a beard and a hat. They're always after my Lucky Charms. Kid's cereal, it's delicious. Eat it. He was also really mean and killed everybody that tried to get his cereal. They're always after my fucking Lucky Charms. In the cereal boxes, the prizes were like fingers.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, there's a darker side that people don't know about. General Mills is man. We're going to get there. Don't worry. That's part of the episode. I hope so. Nice. In 1803, at the age of 16, McGregor enlisted in the British army, taking advantage of the ongoing military expansions due to the Napoleonic Wars. McGregor's early military service was relatively unremarkable, yet it provided him with valuable experience and a taste for military life and a taste for blood.
00:11:25
Speaker
In a way. Yeah. Oh. At 16, his prefrontal cortex isn't even completely developed yet, and he's going to go fucking fight in a war. God damn it. Gregor McGregor. Conor McGregor, McGregor.
00:11:41
Speaker
That just seemed like a bad design in human beings that it takes us to 25 to be fully developed. So good point. And then from there, it's just straight downhill. It is. You peek at 25. That's terrible. You get 25. Then you have inconsistent banners.
00:11:58
Speaker
You're fucking you wake up in the middle of the night with night terrors and boners and night boners, night boners, terra boners. Oh, I love it. We just gave up with a new term, terror boners. It's like, it's like, did you have a are you having a sex dream? No, actually, I'm killing people. Look at me. Rock hard. God, that's because I went to war is 16.
00:12:27
Speaker
Oh, that's good. Sounds like Gregor wanted to do this. He did. He served in various garrisons in Britain and was involved in the British efforts to counter the French influence in the Caribbean. What's a garrison? Though he saw little action in these early years. I don't care about sex life. What was the deal with the
00:12:48
Speaker
I think garrisons as I recall are like from my video game days. I think garrisons are like troops or like, you know, like, like infantry troops or something like that.
00:12:58
Speaker
It goes platoon company Bravo, I've never the military. Why am I doing this and then garrison? Pick up a book every once in a while greasy Greg Thanks, like what's it called when you fucking leave your troop? Hey one. Oh, yeah Yeah
00:13:25
Speaker
Like on the bus ride there, I was like, these guys are mean. I don't want to do this. You know, you could die in this war. Well, just they're yelling. It's like, stop yelling at me. I'm doing the best I can. I'm 49 years old and out of shape and you want me to go to war. You're such a snowflake. A garrison is anybody of troops stationed in a particular location originally to guard it. Oh, all right. I would have thought they could have just called it like a squad.
00:13:54
Speaker
Like the squad? A squad, I don't know. It's AOC and it, what's your name, Omar? I can't pronounce it. I feel terrible saying that because it makes me seem like a dumb American, but I really can't. This is where my illiteracy comes into my benefit because people are just like, oh, he can't say it because he's stupid. He can't even say Massachusetts. So like, I mean, it makes sense. Yeah.
00:14:19
Speaker
It does. My computer decided to do a diagnostic test here right now. I don't know. I don't know. Let's hope it doesn't restart. Might. OK, well, let's move forward. In 1805, McGregor married. I mean, you know, McGregor married Maria Bo Water, the daughter of an admiral in the British Navy. How old was she? Doesn't say she was a mature woman at 13. It's 1805. So.
00:14:49
Speaker
This union connected him with British high society and provided him with a measure of
The Poya Settlement Reality
00:14:54
Speaker
financial security. However, his wife's death in 1809 and his subsequent resignation from the British army marked a turning point in his life leading him to seek fortune and adventure elsewhere. He had a restless spirit and a good amount of ambition.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah, pretty good combo. What killed Miss Bo Bo weather water? You know, I actually looked that up and nothing like they don't know like like probably she's still alive. No, she definitely died. But but she they they think it probably just given the time period that it was probably disease or giving birth to her ninth child. Could be that too. Yes. I don't think they had kids. No. I mean, he probably killed her. Let's be honest.
00:15:40
Speaker
He was actually H.H. Holmes. I mean look at this, 1805 they got married and in 1809 she died and they didn't have any kids. Yeah. I mean that's not normal for that time period. Foul play. Killed her. Yep. You heard it first. Alright so his restless spirit led him to the Americas where he became involved in the complex and tumultuous struggles for independence from Spanish colonial rule. Did he also have a hankering for waffles?
00:16:09
Speaker
I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling. I think it goes hand in hand with a restless spirit. I have heard that. He arrived in Venezuela in 1812, marking the beginning of his participation in the Latin American wars of independence, where he sought to carve out a name for himself far from the British Isles. Can you imagine how funny everyone thought his accent was?
00:16:39
Speaker
in Venezuela. Yeah. Yeah, probably. How they understand what the hell he was saying. Yeah. Well, I don't know, but they see he still sounded funny. Yeah, I agree. I think he probably did. McGregor's military exploits in Latin America were characterized. Google translate. Yeah, that would help. That would definitely help. Saved me when we went to Peru. I'll tell you that much. It is pretty awesome.
00:17:05
Speaker
Because Sheena and I did the Duolingo Spanish. That doesn't work. It does not work when you're taking a vacation to a Spanish-speaking country. It teaches you how to read. Because I've been doing it for years. I can read a lot of Spanish. But yeah, to speak it is like.
00:17:21
Speaker
Un momento por favor. Yeah, it's like, slow down. I will tell you that we use lo siento quite often, which for all you people out there who don't know, it means I'm sorry. Lo siento, I shit my pants in a cold in español por favor. Mi amo es Kevin y yo soy muy muy muy Bronco.
00:17:44
Speaker
Moi Blanco, as I said. That's pretty good. All right. Where the hell was I? He aligned himself with the likes of Simone Bolivar and contributed to several key battles. However, his tendency to embellish his achievements began to emerge during this period. Are you sure his name wasn't John Banks? I'm pretty sure I wasn't there. John Banks embellishes a lot.
00:18:13
Speaker
You think rumors application for the podcast? It's true. Yeah. Guys, it's not. Oh, Jesus. Dennis Wax is calling me. I don't think we can put that in the podcast. I just I just I just I just ignored it. This is I ignored it. Don't make me edit this out. No, no, I want the world to know. No one knows who he is. Yeah, but he's going to see you for using his name. Um.
00:18:42
Speaker
Stranger things have happened. I really hope he does, because then that means he's a listener. And that'll make me happy. We gained one. Yay. So, during his time in Latin America, Gregor McGregor fabricated the existence of Poya, a supposed territory along the Mosquito Coast in Central America. McGregor claimed he was a kuzik,
00:19:10
Speaker
of Poya and a kuzik was a tribal chieftain or local political boss in Latin America. All right. He claimed he had been given the title by the local mosquito king. Was it Harrison Ford in the mosquito coast that movie? I don't I remember. I remember the movie. I don't know if I ever saw it, but I definitely remember the movie. I don't remember who's in it. I just remember a lot of bad acting. Oh, yeah.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, sorry. I got nothing. But I do know that a lot of people from Ireland at that time were going to South America to help them fight in that war. That was a very common thing from Scots and Irish to do.
00:19:53
Speaker
So, you guys never appreciate the things that I know. No, I like it. That's very, it's very impressive. It's hard because sometimes you say things like you know them, but they're completely fabricated. Kind of like our buddy McGregor, Gregor McGregor. And as a counterpoint, I don't enjoy them.
00:20:11
Speaker
That is a counterpoint. Yeah, I mean, that's valid. It's hurtful, but yeah, I can see that you have a point. I don't like your contributions. It's fair. I, for one, could do without. I'm just kidding, John. You're very, you know, I had someone tell me about like the three of us and they definitely pegged John and yes, pegged John as kind of a nerd.
00:20:42
Speaker
Oh, but most nerds are smart night. Just don't. I guess John knows some shit. I mean, what kind of nerd am I, though? Because I'm not like a gamey. I'm not like a D and D nerd. I'm not a. When you say gamey, I was like, where is he going with this? He doesn't shower for sure. Yeah, he's he tastes a little funky, you know, like a little little wild. Yeah. What kind of nerd am I? Feral? Who was this person? Oh, I can't tell you, it was my mom. That John, he's a nerd.
00:21:12
Speaker
God damn it. What an adorable nerd. It's true. Oh, my mom loves John Banks. Aw. Oh, my mom loves John Banks. She's always like, well, who is that guy at the wedding? I was like, John Banks. Yeah. Yeah. I know, Mom. Jesus Christ. I'm not even going to fuck this guy. I'm fucking adorable. If you're 70 and over, I'm adored. Right in your wheelhouse. Put it away, Mom.
00:21:37
Speaker
All right, so Poya, Greg Gregor, McGregor claimed
Modern Parallels to Historical Scams
00:21:40
Speaker
was on the Bay of Honduras, Honduras shores near the Black River in what is today part of Honduras and Nicaragua. He crafted crafted an elaborate narrative describing it as a developed country with an established capital city named St. Joseph.
00:21:56
Speaker
He boasted of its mild climate, fertile land, and abundant natural resources, including gold and silver mines, as well as a welcoming indigenous population. Did they have a bunch of wort? Did they have a bunch of wort mines too? Wort? Yeah.
00:22:14
Speaker
I don't know what we're missing. St. John's. It was St. Joseph though. Thank you. It was St. Joseph. So you went really way too. Speaking of not liking people's contributions.
00:22:29
Speaker
I just felt like I should. I felt like I should fit in. Yeah, that's you probably should have nailed that one after that. I see John. You see John Flex's mustache right there. So I'm training it. And so you literally have wax in it, but it's like the hair is good and I have to like keep pushing. Oh, OK. Well, you're you're you're mustache keeps something my leg. So I know it's it's it's somebody that we've made this joke, but another heard of mine.
00:22:58
Speaker
She was like, you know, she's like, I feel like your beard is like super conservative. I'm like, definitely like, yeah, this part of my face, very misogynist and racist. All of this, not this man. Oh, man. I don't understand. Do people long beards? Are they typically racist and misogynist? I mean, I think that's the it's like I look very.
00:23:22
Speaker
Trumpy, I think, or whatever. I'm not real sure, but it certainly had more than one person tell me that recently. But then they start talking to you and they realize you're just a little sweetheart of a guy. They realize I'm a nerd. Well, my mom did. Kevin, you're gone, buddy. We cannot hear you, Kevin. Can't hear you. We can see you. We can't hear you. Yeah, I accidentally muted myself. Okay.
00:23:52
Speaker
Man, how long have I been muted? I had a bunch of gems in there. I didn't hear any of them. I have to keep clearing my throat. I don't know why, but I keep muting myself. All right, stop distracting me.
00:24:08
Speaker
Are you talking to yourself? Poya was depicted as a paradise for settlers and investors with established laws, a democratic government, and even its own currency. What was it called? Poya's? P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-
00:24:38
Speaker
So McGregor returned to London in 1822, armed with detailed maps, a flag, and even a constitution for Poya. He launched an aggressive marketing campaign to promote Poya to the British public. He published a guidebook called, I wanted to justify all the expenses he had at the strip clubs. Look at
Cryptocurrency Skepticism
00:25:00
Speaker
all this work I did. And he was like, you know, you're full of shit. You fucking wrote it on the way over here. Made it all up.
00:25:07
Speaker
I wonder if the full nude clubs back then served alcohol. It was like that scene in fucking where Rob Reiner's in Wolf of Wall Street and he's like talking about, Oh my God, you spent $7,000 at the strip club. Just me. I'm the only one. So I remember the scene. I thought you were going to talk about it. I thought you were going to say something else. Not yet. That's all I got. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't finish it. I watched about half of it. Okay.
00:25:35
Speaker
You're muted again, Kevin. Kevin, you're muted. Kevin, we can't mute you. God damn it, I did it again. Why are you muting yourself? I'm muting myself because I'm coughing. Right, but you're too stupid to unmute yourself. That is very true. You're too stupid to cough. Just cough.
00:25:53
Speaker
Jesus. Somebody has dementia. I said I'm watching Killers of the Flower Moon right now and it's I'm three three sessions in. I mean, it's a long fucking movie. Is it good? Are you liking it? It's a hard watch, but it's good. Yeah. I mean, the acting is phenomenal and it's corsese and all that. So it's really, really well done. I mean, does Al Pacino kill everybody? What's that? What point does Al Pacino walk in and just start? I haven't seen him yet, but it's probably happening. I mean, that's that's probably going to happen.
00:26:21
Speaker
All right, so actually, Alpichino's the one that got whacked in the last one.
00:26:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah, you're right. So is this his revenge? Killers of the of the teamsters. So he published a guidebook called Sketch of the Mosquito Shore, including the territory of Poya, which detailed the geography, climate and potential of this made up territory was an ideal location for settlement and investment.
00:26:53
Speaker
The book was a key tool in convincing people of the reality of Poya. To bolster the credibility of his claims, McGregor produced false documents and testimonials from settlers who had supposedly thrived in Poya. He even went so far as to create a Poya Asian currency and governmental bonds, which were sold to investors. It was called Poya Asian. So I don't know what it was called, but it was a Poya Asian currency. Okay.
00:27:21
Speaker
It was crackers. They use crackers. It was called the McGregor, the McGregor, McGregor, McGregor's persuasive narrative and fabricated evidence convinced a wide range of individuals from nobles to commoners to invest their fortunes in Poi Asian land and securities.
00:27:41
Speaker
He managed to enlist the support of notable London banks and brokers, further legitimizing the scheme in the eyes of the public. Fucking banks. Like how is, how, I don't know. I mean, different, obviously it's early 1800s, but still that's kind of fucked up.
00:27:58
Speaker
Well, when you said fucking banks, I thought you were talking about John for a second. I didn't do anything. Oh, no. He got fucking banks to London banks and brokers to like back him. That's insane. It's insane. I think you just have to mention like gold mines and silver mines and it's like, oh, I'll invest now. Yeah, it's true.
00:28:22
Speaker
Alongside financial investors, McGregor also recruited settlers willing to embark on the journey to Poya, promising them land and prosperity. Entire families seduced by the promise of a better life sold their possessions and prepared to relocate to this non-existent paradise. And Hep C. And A and B. They're relocating to Hep C. Yeah, that's what they're going to get for sure.
00:28:50
Speaker
Welcome to hep C population. All of you symptoms may include pain. I don't know what the symptoms of hep C are. I just know you don't want it. Yeah. It's a, it kills your liver.
00:29:04
Speaker
Oh, you need that. I don't need that. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're already doing enough damage to your liver. That's what I'm saying. I don't need any more damage done. Yeah. I went John. I did a, I did a physical on Monday. I mean, I didn't do it. I didn't do it at home when I had it done. I did a self physical. I asked myself to cough, turn my head and go to blood work. And I was like, yeah, I got blood. Should probably shouldn't use everywhere. I probably should have had a professional to this.
00:29:29
Speaker
How'd it go? Did you get your results? So one of the things is my chloride is high. And of course, I didn't know that I had chloride in me. Stop drinking bleach. Stop eating toothpaste. Yeah. But it's somehow related to it's like a precursor for having high sodium. So. And then what does that mean? That means you're getting old. You're getting hypertension. My dad has high sodium. Yeah. He's in his 70s.
00:29:55
Speaker
Good job, John. You're an overachiever, buddy.
Dangers of Speculative Investments
00:30:00
Speaker
I said it was a precursor. I didn't say I had it. I'm like on my way to it. It's got to be your beard and mustache wax. Are you a heavy salter? I'm not. I'm not. But I am a heavy salter. But I eat out too much. I eat like for lunch. I get too much fast food for lunch. So I love sandwiches. Like I love like going to like Jersey Mike's. Let me correct that. Yeah, that's actually a sandwich. There's a lot of salt.
00:30:24
Speaker
There's a lot of salt in the meat. Oh, all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's yoga mat. Yeah. Yep. Now that's, that's subway Jersey mics. They just, they don't use yoga mat. They use Pilates mats in their sandwiches. So very progressive.
00:30:40
Speaker
So the first group of settlers departed for Poya in 1822, filled with hope and excitement for their new lives. They were followed by another group in 1823. Both expeditions were based on trust in McGregor's promises and the dream of a utopian settlement where they could thrive away from the economic difficulties of post-war Britain.
00:31:00
Speaker
Two things that would have really helped, I think, would be a GPS satellite, so people could have seen that there was no Poya, and to email, so the people who just in case they missed that there was no Poya, when they got there, they could email their families and be like, don't come. Don't come here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is a bad idea. It has high speed internet, but other than that, not a paradise. Internet's surprisingly awesome, but nothing else. I get a cell signal anywhere. It's so weird.
00:31:28
Speaker
But I can't eat. And I have Pepsi. I have Pepsi, along with everybody else. And I have a lot of chloride. Because we're all fucking. That's right. Of course, McGregor did not join either expedition. He remained in London continuing to promote the scheme and collect funds from unsuspecting investors while the settlers ventured into the unknown. Where were they going?
00:31:51
Speaker
They were going to basically what is now Honduras and Nicaragua. Where the Black Sea comes out to the ocean. Okay. So they were going somewhere. I said that earlier, but maybe I was muted. Stupid Kevin.
00:32:12
Speaker
Go McGregor. I mean, they're not going to be back for a while. He must have been pretty persuasive, pretty charismatic. Yeah. Well, he probably played upon their weaknesses, their desire to escape post-war Britain. Oh, you do listen to me. And have a utopian life and what have you. Yeah, I listen to a little bit of it. Yeah, so you have about 35%. I like that. That's all you need. That's a C minus.
00:32:43
Speaker
So are you ready to hear how this went? I'm assuming great. Everybody lives in a real place, prospered and so the settlers and arrival settlers arrival in Poya marked the beginning of a harrowing ordeal that starkly contrasted with McGregor, McGregor's grandiose promises. The dream of a prosperous new life in a utopian paradise quickly dissolved into a desperate struggle for survival.
00:33:10
Speaker
Okay. I've seen that movie before. Yeah. It's not, it's not an uplifting movie. So it's basically like, like the reverent. Um, I don't think so. What were the day after tomorrow? With Leo DiCaprio? No, Leo DiCaprio. Well, that was, he was like, that guy was the biggest bad-ass ever. Uh, I forget what his name was. That's probably happened to all the people though. What's up? Are you talking about Revenant? What did I say? No, you did say that. I'm just, you're saying he'd like, you're saying that
00:33:39
Speaker
character was a badass. He I'm saying that character was a badass. Yeah. He should have died like 15 times. Yeah. But didn't they eat people? Only if you had to. Yeah. I mean, survival, man. I'd eat both of you. You're so judgey, John. Yeah. I'd eat John Mike's way. That's a Jersey Mike's joke. Lettuce, tomato, onion. That's pretty solid. That's pretty solid. A little olive oil, oregano, some vinegar. I definitely eat John Toasted. Yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker
I'd have to be toasted E. John. Oh, wait. That is sweet. Yeah. I hope that meat cutter cuts off your beard though before. I don't want your fucking beard hair. Yeah. No one wants to eat the beard. Yeah, man. You can tell who skinned an animal out of the three of us and who is not. Yeah, I have not. I've never seen a sailor. I just know the, the, the beard won't matter because you take the skin off of what you're going to eat. So you'd have to skin me not chickens.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, you fucking lost, didn't you? I lost the cannibal competition. You're right. What are teacher owns? Aren't they skin? Yeah, teacher runs. John, how about that? I mean, I got nothing. I am. I am defeated.
00:35:01
Speaker
John defeated himself. History defeated John. So let's see here. The settlers were not, I'm sorry, the settlers were met not by the developed infrastructure and welcoming communities described by McGregor, but by the unforgiving wilderness of the Mosquito coast.
00:35:18
Speaker
The area was dense with jungles, swamps, and rivers lacking any of the promised amenities or cultivated lands. There was no city of St. Joseph. There were no roads, no houses, no farms. Only the untamed natural world. Can you imagine getting off that fucking boat?
00:35:34
Speaker
That's like, that's like that fire Island documentary. You know, it's funny. I was telling, I was telling Sheena about my, she asked what I was doing for my topic and I told her and she was like, Oh, it's like the fire festival kind of, and it is a little bad. I mean, obviously you'll see that this is a little
Human Nature and Susceptibility to Scams
00:35:50
Speaker
worse, but
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean obviously yeah like people get there, and they're like what the fuck is this I mean I can't even imagine like what yeah, it's awful It's like your parents telling you they're gonna take you to Hawaii, but instead they take you to a Margaritaville So no nothing I like I like being a coladas and getting caught in the rain Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. Yeah, that was you know what you call that Greg you call it a yes, and Yes, and that was stupid
00:36:19
Speaker
They got on board. It's just yes and you don't continue it after that, Greg. Right.
00:36:25
Speaker
The settlers, many of whom were city dwellers with little to no survival skills, found themselves woefully unprepared for the realities of frontier life. The tropical environment with its plethora of mosquitoes and stagnant waters became a breeding ground for disease. Malaria, dysentery and other tropical diseases quickly took their toll on the settlers who lacked immunity and adequate medical supplies. The high morbidity rate led to despair and desperation among the survivors. In fairness, though, it sounds like a great weight loss plan.
00:36:56
Speaker
I mean, if you're big, it's not going to survive, but quicker, you know, better than anyone else. Everybody's doing like the Atkins and like all the caveman diet, like all these like it's do the polly diet. John's dying three hours into this ordeal. Oh, yeah. He died on the ship. Let's be honest. Yeah, I wouldn't go again. I just like, guys, this is like, look at me. Yeah. For all the stupid shit he said, he probably died. Oh, sorry. I'm just assuming you have the same personality back then.
00:37:25
Speaker
Hey, could they just get back on that fucking boat and go back home? They probably not yeah, they probably only had enough supplies to get in there
00:37:34
Speaker
Well, there weren't any supplies there there, but I would have tried to risk it and eating John on the way back. But you just, I would die after three days. They're like, what are you going to, just going to, I guess, Marrow, you could, I would have kept one of your legs. Well, he used to, he used to be a runner. So like, that's probably the best one. No, it's not. Get a barbecue sauce. John's really good with barbecue sauce.
00:38:04
Speaker
So how many, how many, do you know how many people went? So, uh, yes, let me, uh, yes, I will get there. Uh, without the premise, fertile lands and stock stores, settlers face severe food shortages. The jungle provided limited edible resources for people unaccustomed to hunting or forging in it. And the lack of agricultural infrastructure made it impossible to gross, uh, sufficient foods. So, so starvation became a real and present danger.
00:38:31
Speaker
So cut off from the outside world, the settlers initial hopes for rescue or relief from Poya were dashed when they realized the extent of McGregor's deception. Their isolation was complete with little choice chance of making their way back to civilization without assistance, Greg.
00:38:48
Speaker
The plight of the settlers eventually reached the ears of the British authorities and other settlements in the region. Rescue missions were organized, but for many help came too late. Those that were saved carried with them the physical and psychological scars of their ordeal. The exact death toll is unknown, but roughly 250 people left for Poya and a very few amount made it back.
00:39:10
Speaker
That sounds terrible. Damn, dude, that is fucking cold. Am I right? Yeah. But so it it gets better. Did he start a travel agency? Like your travel. You're probably not coming back just so you know. Don't worry, the British government will save some of you. We'll save a handful of you. Do you want to be part of that handful?
00:39:35
Speaker
Come to McGregor travel. 95% of our customers don't complain because they've died. The survivors who returned to Britain face not only the personal trauma of their experiences, but also financial ruin because they had invested their life savings in the Poya venture. They sound like a bunch of pussies. Well, they sound like a bunch of stupid people, that's for sure.
00:40:00
Speaker
The return of the settlers and the stories of their suffering sparked outrage and disbelief. However, the allure of Poya had been so strong and McGregor's fabrication so complete that some that some initially doubted the survivors accounts, believing them to be an unfortunate aberration rather than the outcome of a deliberate scam.
00:40:24
Speaker
Like Trump Seriously, it's like you got proof right for your eyes and you're like McGregor would never do that test and McGregor's like I can walk right down the middle main street in fact shoot somebody Grab oh grab by the pussy. Yeah Well, don't don't worry. That's just McGregor Rockwood locker room doc
00:40:48
Speaker
No, but if you knew the McGregor clan, you'd understand. You know, Pola is great. Poya, Poya, Poya. Let's get some Poya loca. So once it was confirmed to be a huge scam, the public reaction was a misc of outrage, disbelief and fascination. Newspapers and pamphlets of the time covered the story extensively with many condemning McGregor's deceit, while others were bewildered.
00:41:12
Speaker
by the audacity of the hoax. I am bewildered at this audacity. Is that like, hang on. Let me, let me scroll a little bit. Oh yeah. That's perfect. That's perfect. Or I guess I am bewildered at this audacity. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The, and the Oscar goes to Gregor McGregor. Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker
Surprisingly, McGregor faced minimal legal consequences in Britain. They lacked the framework for prosecuting international fraud. So McGregor was never formally charged or tried in a British court for the Poya scheme.
00:41:50
Speaker
Damn. And get this, despite the public scandal and the suffering of the Poya settlers and of course the death, McGregor's thirst for grandeur and wealth remained unquenched. He left Britain for France where he attempted to replicate his Poya scheme selling land in the non-existent country to French investors. But this time he had to speak French.
00:42:14
Speaker
But killing roughly 200 people didn't stop him from doing this again. And then he became president. And then he became a hero for the Republican Party.
00:42:26
Speaker
McGregor's activities in France eventually led to his arrest and trial. However, much like in Britain, the legal proceedings did not result in any significant punishment. He was acquitted due to the procedural and evidentiary complexities of prosecuting such an unprecedented case of fraud. This is so fucked up. We don't know what to do.
00:42:49
Speaker
That reminds me of every model I've ever tried to build. It's just too hard to complete and you just smash it. Yeah, it's very similar. Very similar. Thank you. It's crazy though. This guy is the reason that a good amount of people died and nothing. I'm surprised that one of the survivors didn't track him down and kill him.
00:43:14
Speaker
I actually thought the same thing when I was initially reading this story. I kind of thought that might be where it's going. You fucking weak, man. But it's, but it's not malaria. So, so here's, here's the interest. So we're at the ending here. So this is interesting. McGregor returned to Venezuela where he had previously, remember, served as a general in their fight for independence.
00:43:33
Speaker
Venezuela offered him sanctuary and a pension for his services to the country's independence movement despite what he had done in Britain. That's a fucking damn plan. Holy shit, right?
00:43:46
Speaker
He fled to Venezuela and they're like, oh, you're good here. And oh, here's some money. Like, so that, cause you helped us. That's cool. Yeah. You know what? I guess nice guys really do finish last. So you might be right. Yeah. He lived a quiet life in Venezuela until his death in Caracas in 1845. He was 17 and a half. He was 58.
00:44:07
Speaker
Oh, that's kind of that's pretty good. But, you know, he had a pretty active life started being in the army at 16. He died of malaria. I could I try again. I tried to find out how he died. The theory is that he probably died of natural causes because that was a pretty pretty solid life back then. Hmm.
00:44:25
Speaker
No. Right. But that's like so I mean, you know, history defeating itself. Obviously, I started talking about how we should have learned. But I mean, you know, I mean, the the Ponzi scheme, you know, the the Bernie Madoff's like all of that, it's it's.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing that we keep falling for this. And to a lesser extent, sure. The fire festival. I mean, I guess those people had no reason to think that it wasn't going to be real. But I mean, people investing in shit that they have no knowledge about. There's nothing tangible. They haven't heard of. They haven't seen it. They can't see. They can't see legitimate result. I mean, it's crazy. I go. Hey, we're English, though. That's true.
00:45:05
Speaker
I'm still surprised like that people are super into Bitcoin. And again, I just, I don't understand how this thing has value. And they're like, Oh, but it's like every year you can only mine half or every four years, you can only mine half of what was available. But it's like, okay, but it's nothing. It's like, it's not a tangible thing. But neither is neither is currency anymore. You know, our currency is not, is no longer backed by gold. So, I mean, there's really, it's just, it's kind of an arbitrary thing.
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah, I guess so. You know, but that's the thing is like the value of a dollar is a dollar. I mean, I know like there's inflation, but it like it doesn't. In other words, if I just have a dollar, it doesn't increase and be worth $60,000. But if I had a Bitcoin, you know, 10 years ago, it's now worth 60 or whatever it is. I don't know. I don't follow it. But, you know, wherever it's at, it's like tens of thousands of dollars. My dollar doesn't do that. So I don't that's what I don't understand. Like how the fuck is that? Like, how is it not going to collapse?
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think it's an alternative currency. It's a way to say, hey, let's do something different than what's going on. I'm not advocating for it. No, I know. I'm telling you what I know about it. And I have some crypto. It's actually up right now, amazingly.
00:46:22
Speaker
But it's I mean, I don't fucking know. I mean, that's all I have is crypto, but I don't understand. It's a way to to spend money that's not traceable. So they're counting on the fact that, you know, we're going to go to the dark web and purchase like. The recipe for Del Taco.
00:46:43
Speaker
That went that went sideways. But no, I think that like decentralization is an interesting thing in that because, you know, trying to say, OK, there's not a bank controlling any everything. There's not a government controlling everything. And I do find that to be an interesting idea, especially with how corrupt every government is and how, you know, shitty banks are, how they don't give a shit about actual people like surviving and doing well and being, you know,
00:47:10
Speaker
prosperous and all that. So, I mean, it is kind of interesting, but I totally understand what you mean, John. I mean, I know we don't have to get into it. I've learned a little bit about how it works and how it's paid, but it doesn't mean I understand how it's got longevity. That's for sure. Me either. And I'm looking to see where Bitcoin's at right now. Well, it's big now because they're about to do the halving. So people are going crazy for it now. It is.
00:47:35
Speaker
but it'll probably dip again very soon. But that is not at all what my topic was, but thank you for bringing that up. That was nice. Good work, John. You're welcome. I don't know if you guys are being serious or dicks. You know what? I'm going to be honest. I'm not a hyper shirt. I don't know why I said that. And I don't know what my goal was, but
00:47:59
Speaker
You're like, good job. Thanks. Well, what do you guys what do you guys think of Mr. Connor or Connor McGregor, McGregor, McGregor, McGregor? What do you think of a Gregor McGregor? He sounds like a real fucking asshole. Was he was he opportunistic or was he was he just a sociopath? He's a lying, cheating son of a bitch who tried to take advantage of people that he thought he'd never see again and get their money and go. So he's a fucker.
00:48:23
Speaker
What's interesting to me is like his name should have been fucker or fuck, fucker, fucker, big fuck face. I'm surprised that he didn't like catch wind of the fact that they, that they were going to rescue these people and get the fuck out. You know what I mean? Like, why did he stick around? Yeah, that is weird.
00:48:41
Speaker
I mean, because I get he's associate balls. Like, I mean, it's like comment. And I guess it also it was like you're talking about repeating itself. It's like, you know, the oftentimes financial shit like this, financial crimes, because I guess this would be a financial crime. I mean, it's it's gone, but I guess it'd be a financial crime. Right. Sure. And murder, I guess, in a way. You know, I mean, it's not it's not direct murder, but definitely. But it's like we never like.
00:49:09
Speaker
In other words, if he would have walked in and killed 200 people with the machete, right, they would have hung his ass or something. But it's like it's weird how if you're if your blood, if the blood's not actually on your hands, then I mean, I think they would have tried him had they had the ability to do so. It's just considering it happened overseas, they didn't they didn't. I don't know. Make something up.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah. Build something. Build your case. Yeah. At least beat his ass. Yeah. Totally. And I agree with you, John. I seriously thought as I was reading, I'm like, oh, one of these fuckers or one of their family members is going to go kill this guy's ass. You know, I mean, I just thought for sure that was going to happen and it didn't. I.
00:49:52
Speaker
Surprisingly, you had public support, though. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess humans don't we don't change like we just we definitely like a we definitely will find a God, either one we can't see or or make one on Earth a God. So, hey, we were we were trying to potentially elect a president who is under indictment for for all kinds of shit and all kinds of including leading an insurrection. Yes. And but yet he's
00:50:22
Speaker
He might win. He might be our next president. You have a really bad attitude. A bad attitude or? A bad attitude. You don't really support the president. Oh, OK. He's not the president. He was and he's going to be again. Get in line, buddy. Do you think he's going to win? I do. He said he's going to lower gas prices two dollars a gallon. Yeah, let me see that plan, by the way.
00:50:51
Speaker
He's going to start trading us off to, I don't know, countries for oil, people for oil. That's what he's going to start doing. People for oil. All right. Well, before we go off on a tangent here, last call. Fuck Gregor McGregor. And while we're at it, fuck Donald Trump. Cheers. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.