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Elf on the Shelf | A Comedy Podcast
277 Plays1 year ago
On a very special episode of History Defeats Itself, John and Kevin record in the same room. And it is very special. Also, we discuss the Elf on the Shelf. Adorable Christmas tradition? Or Big Brother-esque spy tool designed to prepare kids for a lifetime of surveillance. You decide.
https://linktr.ee/historydefeatsitself
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
Can you hear me okay? I can, yeah, that's why I did the fucking thumbs up thing. I didn't see the fucking thumbs up thing. God, he's such a dick. Can we kick him? Hold on, there's an amazing amount of delay even now. You're the one who didn't let him quit.
00:00:25
Speaker
History Defeats Itself is a comedy podcast. Kevin, John, and Greg are not experts, historians, or even all that smart.
00:00:48
Speaker
I like the person, the person that said I am said, said just two words. I am. That was me. That was, that was telling me. Well, go to history to feed this off. If you're watching in the video, you can see that I actually next to Mr. John Banks. You are. He is visiting me in Colorado.
Jokes on Pets and Santa
00:01:03
Speaker
I'm very happy to have him here. We're also with Greg from California. Yeah. Greg, Greg's not doing anything special. And I'm next to my Diet Coke.
00:01:13
Speaker
Is there booze in that Diet Coke? Because John and I are hammered. Same amount of personality as what's sitting next to you, Kevin. Oh, wow. That is hurtful. That is kind of hurtful. Although, I mean... You know what hurts more when you insult him when he's next to me? Yeah. Hurts me more, I mean. Because you guys are like twins now. But I will say, like Diet Coke, if you put me in your mouth, you don't get a lot of calories, but you're going to get cancer.
00:01:35
Speaker
Those are very similar things they were loaded with aspartame Greg how's everything back in in California? Are you feeding John's fish? Oh? Yeah, oh wait a minute. I fed John's fish to my cat Is that what you meant sure?
00:01:55
Speaker
Whatever, it's fine. John, there's a beer in that cooler if you need it. There's a cooler in here. It's a little round cooler. I don't fuck around. Dude, have you met Elwood? I have not met him, no. He hugged me like four times. He loves John. He really, really loves John. So there's no accounting for taste. Whatever, dude. The working theory is that he thinks he's Santa Claus.
00:02:23
Speaker
Or as he calls him, the ho-ho. Yeah. And when he was trying to, he kept giving me food. So he's trying to fatten me up. Did he learn the word emaciated?
00:02:35
Speaker
emaciated Santa. Yeah, I'm Santa after a hard time, you know, like a lot of kids stop believing and what makes me fat is belief. And what makes him skinny is the large amount of meth he's done since all those kids stop believing.
Elf on the Shelf Origin and Impact
00:02:53
Speaker
It was a hard time for me. A dark, dark period in the house. So John,
00:03:02
Speaker
Is Kevin's bangs or are Kevin's bangs? That's plural, right? Are Kevin's bangs more pronounced in person? Yes, absolutely. Do you slick your hair back like he does? Take off your hat. Slick it back is just what it does naturally. No, I'm not slick. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, is that natural? No, the product is natural. So yours just goes. Well, yours is just messy. It looks like you have been wearing a hat. Like like washed or anything in a while. Oh, no, I took two showers today.
00:03:32
Speaker
I really feel like if you can look at the hair treatment program we're using, I'm like a year in, Kevin's a day in, and Greg, you're like three months in. It's a good gauge of what you can get if you use Jon's hair serum. I have not started. No, obviously.
00:03:50
Speaker
Did you give it to him? Because he needs a lot of it. Yeah, I did. Well, you know, I can make it in small batches and I do it by hand. I think Greg's really jealous that we're together right now because he has been making fun of our weight, our hairline, every single aspect of our being he's been making fun of. Yeah. Okay, let's hear dicks. We did this last week. I'm not dealing with this again. Hey, I just listened to Jon's episode. It was fucking funny.
00:04:18
Speaker
My episode. Oh, you're two. You're two behind the cats. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was a funny that's pretty good, too. Wait, is that has that been released yet? Yeah, it was today came out today. Oh, what day is it? I was listening to spit and chiclets and those episodes are like three and a half hours long. So spitting chiclets. It's a hockey podcast. It's not even that great. Cat. Why did you say it was near? Because it's not that great. Well, agree to disagree.
00:04:46
Speaker
I agree that you're wrong. This is a very two against one kind of pot. Yeah, we're going to totally getting up on you. OK, good. I don't blame you. I do the same thing. I think when I was with Kevin, Kevin and I ganged up against John. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys hop on a plane and visit each other. You can you can you can record together, too, and then gang up on me. That's so cutesy, Kevin. Good job. Thanks. All right. It's my turn to lead. We go. Yeah, let's do it. I want to know what you know.
00:05:16
Speaker
Let me just tell you, this guy, he's very organized. He's got introduction, bullet point, bullet point, section one, bullet point, bullet point, bullet point, back, and oh, wow, man, he's on it. He's on it. You should send me that format. Would you use it? No. No, no, I just want to show people how organized you are. You won't do that either. Well, here's the thing. Kevin has sent it to me and then I'll tell Kevin I showed people and I'll tell him how impressed they were.
00:05:45
Speaker
You wouldn't even do that. There's so many things in this situation you're not going to do. You're going to go as far as making that joke. That's it. So I have two choices here. Either you can get me a beer or I can really reach between your legs and get it myself. Yes. Oh, he's out. Yeah, he's getting he's getting a beer. So I'm getting a hold of that tab. He's getting a hold of that can. You know what I'm saying? I said pull that tab. All that tab. All right.
00:06:14
Speaker
I mean, thank you. You may zip that up. That's not necessary.
00:06:24
Speaker
That was fast. OK, I gotta go, guys. All right. Here we go. All right. Since it's the holiday season, I thought we'd discuss a beloved Christmas tradition that some see as a whimsical holiday experience for kids and others see as a tool that conditions children to accept a surveillance state like something out of a George Orwell novel. Oh, wow. This is taking a dark turn. I am, of course, talking about.
00:06:50
Speaker
the elf on the shelf. Oh, man. Totally thought we're going to go molesting. That's what I thought. That's where that was going. I mean, I just figured that's a dark, you said a Christmas tradition. We had very different holiday seasons growing up. I got a 70 year old uncle who likes to touch me.
00:07:14
Speaker
I'm just going to let you guys do this because apparently you can't hear anything I say. I'm making fucking some great jokes right now. I'm sorry. No, no, no. Please. Please go. That's too late now. Okay. Okay. So what I said was, see what I said was my joke was this. I thought the tradition, the tradition was caroling. And then I said something else about jumping lost it and it was funny. Hmm. Hmm.
00:07:38
Speaker
I don't know why you're making jokes about Melastation, Greg. Yeah, Greg, that's not funny. Specifically John being Melastated. Melastated? Melastated is funny. It's being touched inappropriately while taking melatonin. You sleep well. You sleep through some of it. It's actually just John being molested while he mispronounces words.
00:08:18
Speaker
I can't believe it took 48 years put that together 48
00:08:27
Speaker
It's called an epiphany. I didn't get molested when I was a baby. No, I just didn't know you were, I thought it was going to go to the fifties. How do you know? I'm not in the fifties. I will tell you this, Greg, so I haven't seen John in a long time. I know I interrupted you. I do. I meant to. You're fine. No, it's great. John's beard is so much longer in person. Yeah. Kind of like how I'm taller in person and I have
00:08:50
Speaker
more glorious bangs. John's beard is long. Yeah, it's very long. I just saw John in person last week. I know, but I don't normally. In Columbus, Ohio, have you been to Columbus? I have. It's the city of lights or something. No, it wasn't.
00:09:09
Speaker
So Carol Ebersold and her daughter, Chanda Bell, were inspired by their family's own Christmas tradition, where an elf named Fisbee would watch over the children and report back to Santa. So like a narc.
Elf on the Shelf Tradition and Media
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, the elf on the shelf is 100% a narc. Yeah.
00:09:27
Speaker
The idea to turn this family tradition into a book was a joint effort with Carol's other daughter, Krista Pitts, not sure why they all have a lot of different last names, sound suspect all right away, joining to handle the business aspect. The book co-authored by Abersold and Bell came with a small scout elf. The story explains how the elf keeps an eye on children's behavior and goes back to the North Pole every night to report to Santa, AKA a narc. How does he get back to the North Pole?
00:09:58
Speaker
Magic.
00:09:59
Speaker
Well, OK, but but I understand that. But but if if Santa has to use a sleigh and a whole bunch of reindeer has one little fucking I mean, he's the ball. Santa's got a bunch of shit to bring. Elf just goes by himself. So he just goes like, be me up, Santa. So OK, but if that's if that's what happens, then why don't he why don't he just like connect like 10 else to a sleigh? You're you're punching holes. You're punching holes. Don't punch holes in this. Next thing you're going to say is Jesus isn't real. I would never say that. This episode is earth shattering.
00:10:31
Speaker
I love making him lose his place. It's my favorite thing to do. The book's unique design and illustrations done by Koei Steinwert were integral in bringing the story and the character of the elf to life. I just want to say that pronunciation was correct because I can see it. Koei. Koei. Steinwert. You know what, Jack? You just take over.
00:10:57
Speaker
That's what it should be our next, when we do the three themes, we should just write the notes for each other and make the other person read the entire story. I'm just going to copy and paste Wikipedia. There you go. Edit this down. I'm sorry. Would that be different than normal? No, but I'm saying if that's what I'm going to do for you, if we're going to be sending off each other's.
00:11:14
Speaker
Oh, yeah, we should have to do it exactly how we'll talk about it. Greg is Greg is really feeling left out here. I just like watching you guys this little back and forth. So cute. I don't think you do. I think I think you're I'm not joking. I mean, doing something. Hmm. For sure. They started by selling books locally in Georgia through book signings, craft fairs and holiday markets.
00:11:40
Speaker
They personally handled the distribution in promotion. The charm of the book and the elf caught on gradually with more families adopting the tradition and sharing it with others. So it was quite the grassroots effort to grow this thing. We, we have an oath on our shelf during the holidays. Do you really? And we, well, we don't, but he gets himself in a world of trouble. Did you say we eat him? No, I didn't. What did you say?
00:12:07
Speaker
Well, I started to say one thing, but then I changed it because I was starting to say like, we put them in different positions, but it's the magical shelf. Yeah. We don't want to ruin this for the children listening. Right. So wait, who are you doing that for Greg? Cause all your children are adults. Raymond can enjoy enough. I mean, a 15 year old six foot one, 220 pound play bruising hockey player.
00:12:33
Speaker
He enjoys it, I know. He enjoys moving around. He likes whimsy. He does. Have you guys seen Snoop on a Snoop?
00:12:44
Speaker
Yes, you can buy these little Snoop Snoop dog figurines. You can do the same thing like with the elf on the shelf. Oh, you know what? Sheena sent me something about that. Yeah, I think I have seen something about that. That dude really sold out, man. Oh, my God. God blessing for it. Why not? I remember when I saw him in a Buick commercial with a bunch of white people playing golf. I was like, OK, that you can't you can't rap about being a gangsta anymore. Yeah.
00:13:10
Speaker
But he can rap about, you know, living in a really nice house. He can rap about having a lot more money than the three of us. Eating duck and lobster. That's his new rap song. Is duck really expensive? I don't think it is. And really lobster tails, you can get them at Safeway for like $6.99.
00:13:27
Speaker
You need a safe way for six. I don't think those real lobster. I wouldn't eat those. Yeah. No, I mean, I like I haven't been able to see in six weeks, but and I have an erection that won't go away after four hours or any hours. And I can only I can only walk sideways. Kevin's like turning into the fly, but he's turning into a crab man. No.
00:13:56
Speaker
No. Stop. Stop. So the major the major breakthrough came with appearances on national television, including the Today Show. Wait, are we still talking about Snoop Dogg? No. And coverage in Better Home and Gardens, which greatly increased their visibility and sales. The book received various awards and recognitions, further cementing its popularity. I hereby bestow upon you the Greg Mitchell John Banks Kevin Rosenquist Award for the most elfiest book ever.
00:14:25
Speaker
Elfiest on the shelfiest. Oh, OK, that's that's because, yeah, it's a broader category if you don't do the shelfiest shelf, shelf, theist. It's hard to say. It's a tongue twister. The tradition was not limited to any specific demographic with families across various backgrounds adopting the elf. The elf from the news. Oh, can we get that out? I don't want to say anything anti-Semitism. Well, it's Christmas, so I thought that was implied. I didn't feel like I had to say that.
00:14:54
Speaker
So again, that's a bigger, broader thing where Jews are not really welcome. Except for Jesus. I mean, we know I'm not saying they should be. I'm just saying. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I just want to get clear. Are you saying that Elf on the Shelf is a gateway book for children to become Nazis? Are we breaking a story here on history defeats itself?
00:15:21
Speaker
That was not at all what I had said. Feel free to listen to it. It must be where we're sitting.
00:15:31
Speaker
Following media exposure, the Elf on the Shelf became a must-have Christmas item in many American households. The tradition was not limited to any, I already said all this, god damn it. The Elf on the Shelf- It's amazing he got lost because seriously, he's so organized and detailed. How you could get lost on that? I know why we get lost, Greg, because we suck. We take no time to do this. He actually takes time to do it and still fucks it up.
00:15:55
Speaker
And as he talks, like the words, his computer automatically like crosses out the words. Yeah, it's an AI tool.
00:16:06
Speaker
The Elf on the Shelf phenomenon significantly influenced American Christmas culture, becoming an integral part to some family celebrations as other traditional activities. Of course, a capitalist nation wouldn't stop with a book and a doll, right? Merchandise, including different elf designs, clothing and accessories were produced as well, because if you can't accessorize,
00:16:26
Speaker
What's the point? What's the point? And they made that movie that an elf's story. I was just going to talk about that. And then I was talking about the one with the elf. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that was that was that was a based on elf on a shelf. So additional.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yep. Uh, and you said James Con, right? And, um, Mary, uh, I knew the, the, the mom's team. I used to have a crush on her when I was a kid. Really? I really did. Like, like a teenager. Yeah, I really did. There was something about like, just like nerdy hot. Okay. Nobody's, nobody's jumping on. I used to have a huge crush on, uh, James Con nerdy hot, more of a, more of a godfather thing, but whatever. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
more of a respect kind of, kind of crush. He got going to take a lot of bullets. He had shot a lot. I mean, he killed him, but, but he definitely, he really couldn't take him. I mean, he didn't give him back. He kept them inside. All right. Um, then there's, there's a lot about the Godfather movie is when Talia Shire was talking about the fact that her husband was beating her.
00:17:40
Speaker
And he like, when, as soon as you get the fucking next message that he did, remember that he went out for the hit and he was so pissed. He kind of bit the palm of his hand. That's son of a bitch. Well, it was my favorite part of James Collins acting. Okay. Gotcha. That's what got me off. Just full circle.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry. Until elf and then elf. Elf on a shelf. Elf got a lot. I think we talked about that before. I fucking hate it. Wait, what? And elf. All right. So there's a movie called an elf's story. It's an animated TV special that further popular popularize the elf tradition along with a series of additional books expanding the elf's universe.
Surveillance Concerns and Debate
00:18:27
Speaker
There are even interactive digital experiences such as apps where children can adopt a virtual elf. What does that elf do?
00:18:34
Speaker
I didn't dive in that far. You get the app. I did not get the app. Hold on. I got to do something. Grab your phone. The tradition has spread internationally with families across different countries adopting their versions of the elf tradition, even with some classrooms, even some classrooms have adopted the elf with teachers using it as a fun way to engage students during the holiday season. Oh, that's nice. Very creative. Helping the kids really.
00:19:04
Speaker
All right, let's talk more about what people do with the elf. Oh, no. I mean, I've seen videos not to that level. Each morning in December, children wake up to find the elf in a new and often humorous position, creating a sense of excitement and a playful start to the day. Greg, what is the most fun situation you've put your elf in?
00:19:28
Speaker
Well, there's like an, let's just say an NC 17 TV MA version of what I've done, which involved ass stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you do it. Ass up man. And then when my kids were younger, I did fun things like hanging from the ceiling fan, like we spinning them around going, I'm getting dizzy. Cause I have an elf. Did you like,
00:19:53
Speaker
Like you have like vomit over the walls. Where do you get sick from spinning? Where were you 15 years ago or 10 years ago? John with these ideas is genius. I was at your house hanging that elf on a ceiling fan. John actually looks exactly like the elf. He was just sitting on top of Greg's shelf. That's what I should do for Halloween. I'll go as elf on the shelf.
00:20:18
Speaker
Halloween was a few weeks ago. There will be another one, Kevin. What if you don't have that beard? I mean, if Courtney told me two days ago, she's like, you know, Halloween's over and you should shave that because you look really old. I was like, oh, it's true, but I'm not going to shave it. That's love right there. That's love. I cannot believe how often I think about John's beard.
00:20:48
Speaker
You talk a lot. Yeah. And I landed on something. Would you land on that? You're in love with me. I thought about the size of the universe and how insignificant his beard is when you think about everything. And if it makes him happy, he should have it. Like the only reason why people think that he shouldn't have it are because of cultural norms or
00:21:11
Speaker
people want to present themselves in an attractive way. And if, if he bucks that system, so, so be it. I think a lot of it is fear of Islamic extremists. I'm pretty sure he just called you ugly. I get what he's saying. I'm just going to ignore it. I think he's very attractive and I honestly think I really did land on if, if it makes him happy, he should definitely keep it. You know, it's great. It's great that Greg is, is so
00:21:35
Speaker
mature to give you permission to have that. It is. Thank you. It does take up a lot of real estate. You don't understand, Kevin, John and I, what we do with our bodies really matters. I mean, do we both have the same tattoo? That's true. It does. His beard is itching my balls right now. No, wait. It's itching your balls or scratching your balls? Itching.
00:21:58
Speaker
Definitely pitching. Can it also scratch his balls, John? There's only so much beard. Part of it's up his butt. That part I don't mind. No wonder he hasn't mentioned that part. And luckily, see, that's the thing. If it was a short beard, I couldn't do that because of the smell, right? But it's long, so there's no after smell for me. Do you ever walk too close to a paper shredder and freak out?
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm trying to think, have I got it caught? I definitely catch it on shit. I definitely like, oh, I do zippers. When I zip up jackets, I have to be real careful because I zip up my beard and my jacket, and that fucking hurts. I would imagine it does. It hurts. Don't do that. It's like if you ever zipped up your pubes. Don't do that. Hey, do you ever have to put on a condom?
00:22:45
Speaker
On my beard? No. Could you please just, when you're this close to me, I do not want to get pregnant. I mean, I think we've talked about this before. I just happen to wear a condom all the time, just in case. Look, I don't want to slow things down, but I have to put it on. He's like, he's like the condom I had in my wallet when I was like 16. It never ever gets used.
00:23:09
Speaker
It lost all condom integrity. I've been meaning to tell you this, you really need to take that out of your wallet. It's probably not good anymore. Well, that's what I did. I took mine out of my wallet and put it in my pain. So that way I'd stop wearing out wallets because you get that ringing on your wallet. Yeah. You definitely got a ring in your wallet. That's why I can't have corduroy. Okay.
00:23:33
Speaker
The creativity and effort parents put into creating these scenes nightly, often planning intricate setups to delight their children, is a fun family engagement activity. The daily appearance of the elf builds up anticipation for Christmas, becoming a cherished part of the holiday countdown.
00:23:50
Speaker
Some families personalized the tradition by incorporating elements unique to their household like involving pets or referencing family inside jokes. And these daily elf scenarios became fond memories for children often talked about and remembered even after the holiday season, John.
00:24:05
Speaker
So Greg, I have a question for you. Do you, cause you know how Kevin always gives a shit about how our topics don't really tie into our thing. I thought that was terrible, but it's, it's like, how's he going to tie this into history to feeding itself? Like what, what leap is he going to make? And then pretend like he didn't do that. Well, you know what? We got to let the episode unfold.
00:24:30
Speaker
I'm sorry, please, please continue. I want to know, Kevin, did you write all this yourself or was this an article that you read? Cause no, he wrote it all himself. It's in his, he literally wrote it and scanned it. It's in his penmanship. I could not read it. Apparently his penmanship is califond seven regular, not bold. No, it's Roboto. Roboto normal.
00:24:58
Speaker
So it also provides parents with a plethora of social media content. And this is an interesting part of the whole up on the shelf phenomenon. If you do say so yourself.
00:25:10
Speaker
parents often share their elf setups on social media platforms like Instagram, Pinterest, and Facebook. This creates a community where parents can exchange ideas, share laughter, and feel connected during the holiday season. Celebrities have also taken part in this trend, sharing their elf setups and thereby amplifying the tradition's popularity, including Kim Kardashian, who, according to Hello! magazine, showed off her creative side with a snap of her elf
00:25:34
Speaker
with a fake weapon in its hand, weapon. Did you say weapon, Kevin? I said weapon for the children. This is absurd. Does not seem right. No, Kim, Kim, dial it back. I'll talk to her. Maybe give her maybe have the elf hold a Twinkie or something. You know, I think as the greater Los Angeles slash Longmont slash Santa Monica area podcast with our influence, we can reach her.
00:26:04
Speaker
I think she's calling right now. Oh, no, that's pizza. She wants to know where Kevin, how Kevin's going to tie this together. There are even blogs and forums dedicated to sharing elf ideas. Show got you far and creative ways families integrate the elf into their holiday traditions.
00:26:25
Speaker
That's exciting. Some parents use the elf as a playful way to encourage good behavior with the elf reporting to Santa on the child's actions. The elf can also be used to teach children about consequences and rewards, linking good behavior and positive outcomes. The elf's daily scenarios can spark children's imaginations, encouraging storytelling and creative thinking. But there's a dark side.
00:26:49
Speaker
Oh, is it is it elf cocaine? That's my last call. That's every because they're magic. And literally every time they come down here, that is bring with them a whole bunch of coke. The controversy is about what it's teaching children and how how it's making kids, quote unquote, good. So Dr. Laura Pinto.
00:27:16
Speaker
We can settle on that for a second if you'd like. A digital technology professor published a paper suggesting the ELF conditions children to accept a surveillance state. She argued that it teaches kids that it's normal to be watched and to accept intrusions into privacy as benign or even fun. Some worry that this might normalize the concept of being constantly monitored from a young age, potentially affecting their views on privacy and surveillance in adulthood.
00:27:46
Speaker
I think she's an idiot. Me too, because I feel like once you hit puberty, you close that door. And also, kids are monitored on baby monitors from the time they're born. And they're monitored by their parents coming in all the time checking on them. All the fucking time. It's not like the elf on the shelf. I think the kids have the attention span of a fucking gnat. And as soon as you stop thinking about the elf on the shelf, you're not even thinking about being monitored.
00:28:12
Speaker
Well, but but you're a you're a former psychology major. Thank you for giving me the respect that you ask. No, that's not true. He's not. He is a psychology major. He never did anything with it, but he got the degree and he still he still is a psychology majoring in psychology. That's true. All right. Is Kevin really sweaty in person? He looks kind of pasty. That's pretty dry.
00:28:41
Speaker
I think the proper way to check is to, it's sweaty. Oh man. I like waterfalls. Yeah. It's very warm in here, especially when you're next to a big home command, like the sexual tension, man, we're going to have to cut this short.
00:29:00
Speaker
But I think that like I think part of what they're trying to say, though, is that like, you know, I understand what you're saying about like baby manners or or you said parents checking on their kids all the time. But what you also have, though, is you have this thing sitting on a shelf just watching you. It's always watching you, you know, like it's I can see the argument from like that. It's a it's it's it's a bad precedent to set. And so I think even little kids know it's fucking fake.
00:29:30
Speaker
Sorry, I don't think they do. I think they do. Wait, I would. I have a little kid and he was pretty convinced that John here was going to give him presents because he has a long beard. At least John is a person. Yeah, but he doesn't. I mean, he doesn't know the difference. He doesn't like. I mean, he is a person and a fucking ball. No, I don't think he does because he gets scared of things on movies and TV. I just want to say like that. I think that's the first time Greg's ever referred to me as a person. So that actually is true. Yeah. Wow. Big steps here.
00:30:01
Speaker
A number of child psychologists have expressed concerns about the impact of the elf on child's behavior and understanding of privacy. Some argue that these are psychologists. These are your people. Woke. You could. It could also some argue that it might instill a notion that they are only behaving well because they are being watched, not because it's the right. That is the whole foundation of Christianity.
00:30:24
Speaker
People want to go to heaven because they're afraid that they're being watched. It could also affect the natural development of trust and autonomy in children, potentially leading to an over-reliance on external validation for moral and ethical behavior.
00:30:39
Speaker
Just like the fucking Bible. Oops. Okay. This just, this may be the beard talking. Cause let me tell you, John liberal beard, very Republican. This, this thing has got an arsenal in its basement, right? And it's just waiting on the world to end this guy, not at all world peace, but. Isn't it that.
00:31:04
Speaker
Like kids are kids and like everything we do, like we look at everything as having this negative consequence, right? And sometimes things are just fun. I agree that like when you're, like, like you really can't make distinctions until you're about seven, like a like real and fake. That's why they, they, well like cartoons, right? So they, they, you can no longer do ads on morning shows, like Saturday morning TV shows or kids shows where it goes from cartoon to cartoon. The ad, in other words, you have to do something that is very clear that it's a different thing.
00:31:34
Speaker
because kids can't understand that, but then, but they don't understand anything. So I think if you have a lot of- Kids are so fucking stupid. I mean, they are. It's so dumb. Yeah. Like they're just not made to be, you know, they're made to have people take care of them, right? They're not made to be- Well, I mean, they're people, but like, are they? I mean, they're little people. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And we're not allowed to say that. We're getting in trouble, all right? We get canceled.
00:32:00
Speaker
My children. In fairness, grown up children, also known as adults, make stupid fucking decisions all the time and they're pretty dumb. Yeah. For example, I was just in Columbus. I did hear you scream. I would just scream bloody murder downstairs, like trying to put our point, make our point for us. Right. Well, you probably can hear us talking about it on the shelf and he's very upset about the content.
00:32:21
Speaker
He's also hearing us to tell everyone in the world that he's dumb and he doesn't like that. And he's a little person and he's a little person. He hugged me four times. It was very cute. He loves. It was so cute. He just like ran up and then he gave me, he gave me a bar, a fruit bar. He's my buddy. And he tried to give him yogurt. Here's the thing with my son though. He knows that he's not going to eat it and someone's got to eat it. So like then he gets another one. He did ask for it back. He did. And he ate it. Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker
So to be fair to the elf, though, Santa Claus has been a figure who monitors children's behavior for generations, serving as a behavioral motivator for children.
Cultural Folklore Figures
00:32:57
Speaker
I've always thought he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you are awake is a pretty fucking creepy thing. So, I mean, is it really any different than that? Because he's in your room all the time watching you. He watches you in the bathroom, watches in the shower, watches you at school, watching you know, from the time you were a little kid that Santa was bullshit to.
00:33:17
Speaker
now he sounds like an apex predator I'm trying to remember what I don't know because like did you did you grow up believing in Santa yeah do you remember how old you were like 37 38 mm-hmm man
00:33:30
Speaker
I can't remember. I didn't come to it on my own. My brother ruined it for me. I have an older brother, too. And that. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I was made. I have an older brother and he likes to keep the magic alive. He still hasn't told me. Did you celebrate? Did you believe in Santa when you were looking?
00:33:48
Speaker
No, I didn't. And that's because we were Jews. And my parents would say, I believe in that bullshit. Not true. No, no, like it burned for 40 days or something. Yeah, we definitely got fucked on that. And then you and then your parents would tell you to go and ruin Santa Claus for all the other kids at school. Tommy's not real. And I fucking took that and ran. So why did you decide to why did you do Christmas for your kids?
00:34:17
Speaker
Oh, because my wife's not Jewish. What? She never converted? Nope. Then Greg didn't convert to not being Jewish. Yeah, why did you not convert to being a Gentile? Have you never listened to an episode of history defeats itself when we talk about religion? And what our opinions are about it? I mean, you make a good case for not doing it, but I'm still... Disappointed. There's lots of things I don't do.
00:34:49
Speaker
Bathe. Chave. Be nice. Be on this podcast anymore. Buy clothes that are new. Yeah. Buy clothes that fit you. Yeah. This is fun. Not wear hats. I would like to insult you as two people instead of three people. You're right. I do not not wear hats. You're right. Good point.
00:35:15
Speaker
There are other historical examples from various cultures where folklore and mythological figures have been used to influence children's behavior around the holidays. Are you guys familiar with the Krampus?
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't know a lot about it. I know it's like- Krampus is awesome. It's like Danish or Swedish or something. Yeah, it's like a central European. It's like a bunch of different countries. But Krampus is a figure in central European folklore who is often depicted as a horned anthropomorphic figure resembling a demonic version of St. Nicholas. Traditionally, Krampus is said to punish children who misbehave during the Christmas season. The character's origins are pre-Christian rooted in Germanic paganism.
00:35:53
Speaker
In many regions, Krampus Night, or Krampus Nacht, is celebrated on December 5th, the eve of St. Nicholas Day. During this time, people may participate in Krampus runs, where individuals dressed as Krampus roam the streets to scare spectators and playfully chase people. That sounds like fun. Playfully chase people? That doesn't sound right at all. With a running chainsaw.
00:36:21
Speaker
Sounds like not scary farm. No, it does not sound good. There's that movie Krampus. Wasn't Rob Gorgery in it? Really? Have you seen it? It's pretty good. It's a good movie. Really good? Are you being serious right now? It's good. You like it.
00:36:40
Speaker
Okay. All right. Well, let's just pause right now. Let's watch and see and we're back. What'd you guys think? It was good. I liked it. Rob Gorges was really good. Yeah. No, I actually, um, I didn't dig it. I thought it was, uh, I thought it wasn't super believable. I mean, well, I will say like, is it derivative of your podcast?
00:37:00
Speaker
And there's also there's the devil, right? Like we have all these like supernaturals, like, you know, made up things that watch us, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So I think that the difference in the elf in the shelf thing, though, is that it's like I'm going to put this thing here to monitor your behavior. It's like a it's like a physical thing they can see. And Santa, you can't see. And Jesus is all I get that. I'm just saying I'm playing devil's. Jesus lives in your heart. Yeah. Thank you. You can see him inside you deep inside you. Hey, there he is.
00:37:32
Speaker
Oh no, that's the mole I need to have removed before I die. I feel like I have tachycardia now. Because of Jesus pushing the heart around too much.
00:37:42
Speaker
So obviously privacy concerns and government mattering have been issues for a long time. It's worse these days since we all carry trackable computers in our pockets and AI has people scared. But there are actually some out there who believe that the elf on the shelf was formed as a conspiracy to normalize surveillance for kids.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you know, I guess the thing with all those conspiracy theories is how do you just, I mean, cause I'm sure like, I mean, it's possible. Yeah. Right. It's anything's possible. Yeah. It's possible. The moon is, you know, we didn't go to the moon. It's possible. Probably not. Probably, you know, probably didn't get that many people to keep it a secret, but it's possible. Does seem unlikely. Does seem unlikely, but I mean, I can't say like with a hundred percent certainty that we did, I wasn't there.
00:38:30
Speaker
I wasn't there for building the elf on the shelf or the surveillance. I was definitely the elf on the shelf is turning everyone into sheep. That's the problem. Okay. Let's get drunk. But aren't we sheep anyway? I'm sheepish. Yeah. I mean, I'm into sheep only when you're naked. I really like merino wool. What does that mean? Cashmere. Cashmere is fantastic.
00:38:58
Speaker
So so does this represent an unhealthy idea for kids? The grandpa? No, no. I think any of them, any of them, Santa, like the whole the idea of that, if you're this, if you're being watched, if you're not good, you're not going to get prisons. I mean, we're going to the elf is going to report back to Santa and you're going to get even. I think I think it's all since since these let's just call them wise.
00:39:27
Speaker
Since they get dispelled, once you realize, you know, Santa's not real and then the elf on the shelf's not real, then they're gonna know, hey, no one was really watching me ever, so I'm gonna go fuck around all, I think all teenagers go through a stage where they don't give a fuck about consequences anyway. So it's not like you're gonna just give over to monitoring.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I look at what is it? The Amish, the Romspringer, whatever. Right. When they when they did the thing where they get to leave for a year and go just do whatever the fuck they want. Right. And then some of them go back to being Amish and some of them don't. How do you go back after that? But a lot of them do. Yeah, a lot of them didn't get laid. Yeah, they tried and they failed. They're like, well, that's not going to happen. So I may as well do this whole Amish thing. But but to your point, Greg, is like, right. Like, I don't think it matters. Like, sorry, I didn't mean to insult your people.
00:40:21
Speaker
Hey, is he going out there and feeding this horse? Oh, actually. Does he bring them inside at night? The fact that I'm holding his mic means I'm going to hell. So that's true. I'm using the technology.
00:40:37
Speaker
I don't know. It doesn't fucking
Commercialization and Ethics of Traditions
00:40:41
Speaker
matter. You were saying that people just, I fucking think it's such, I'm going to tell a story. I remember as a kid, my brother, like we were real little. I have this memory of this though, when my brother, um, he, he, he took $5 from a friend's house that was sitting out and he's just stole the money. You know, like he didn't know what he was doing. He just took it.
00:41:01
Speaker
And he got found out and it was right before Easter. So the Easter Bunny did not bring him a present. I got this sweet glider. He did not get a present. He got a note from the Easter Bunny explaining why he didn't get a present and telling him that he needed to be better or he needed to make better decisions. Was that a good idea, a bad idea for my parents? He turned to a life of crime.
00:41:27
Speaker
So you're saying because he didn't, that was the reason? I mean, he can't, he can't be around rabbits without crying. And he has robbed a few blanks too. So maybe I guess he did go away for crying.
00:41:39
Speaker
I think it's weird that we, well, I guess, I guess the bigger question is, is it even fair that we lie to kids? Because I remember, I remember finding out when Santa wasn't real and it was soul crushing. It was so disappointing. I don't know. I don't know. It was soul crushing. I was, I remember trying to be like a big man. Like, Oh yeah, no, I knew that. You turned the James Con. Yeah. But like,
00:42:08
Speaker
Sorry. But you know, I mean, and I get like, so I guess what is the trade off, right? Like, cause the trade off is, or what is the benefit versus the conspiracy theory, which is, you know, these kids, they do enjoy it, right? I'm sure like there's not a kid in the world who doesn't absolutely love it and have a great time with it. Right. So then life, life is pain, man. There's good, there's good and bad. And I mean, and I guess what better way to like, everybody's going to lie to you, especially your parents. Right. Oh my God. I lie to my kids so many times a day.
00:42:39
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you're a kid. Yeah, I know you did. I actually did. Yeah, you said you were going to eat that bar later and you didn't. In fairness, your kid's a fucking liar too. That is for sure. That is for sure. It was an accident. I saw you punch the dog in the face. You looked right at it and said, punch. It's not an accident. You said it and did it at the same time. At the same time.
00:43:03
Speaker
Here, look, there's a picture of you that you drew beforehand punching the dog in the face that the elf took a video of. Oh, so. All right. New traditions often spark debates. It's not weird, though, that were surveilled all the time anyway. I mean, it's already happening. Like, don't feel like you can't go into any store and shoplift anymore without being caught. You can't. So frustrating.
00:43:30
Speaker
Or just people filming, you know, the auditors. You can't make anybody ever. Do you know about the auditors? Do you know about these guys, like these people, they'll go out and they'll just like sit on like a public, like a sidewalk and they'll film like a building and they'll stay there forever until like the police get called. And then, and they're doing it to basically be like, um, this is my first amendment right or whatever. And it's great. But it's just like, it's like, why?
00:43:51
Speaker
Why? But everybody films everybody now. Get a job of some kind. They want confrontation, man. They want to fucking and then they want to put the post those videos and get a bunch of fucking views. And it's Jesus Christ. Yeah. But yeah. So but we're everybody's family. You know, we all have we all like we're basically we didn't mean to be surveilled. Right. Because we're is that a word? Yes. Yeah. English. I got it. Finally got it.
00:44:18
Speaker
But it's like we put our own shit out there. You know, we put pictures of ourselves and our kids and whatever. So he's like, hey, here's my kid. We're talking about we're doing all this stuff about podcasts. People know way more about us than we should be comfortable with. Yeah, it's true. I guess so. All right, so.
00:44:44
Speaker
Kevin's got a lot of computers on his desk. I do. Cultural, yes. New traditions often sparked debates and resistance. For example, the introduction of Christmas trees in the 19th century was originally met with skepticism, but later became a central tradition. Skepticism for what? For trees?
00:45:02
Speaker
No, it was more like, well, I didn't really get into this because I didn't think we needed to. But like part of it is also like whole commercialization. It's not about religion. It's not about like that's another big argument against the elf on the shelf. But that's also just tied in with pretty much every aspect of Christmas that we all like. Right. Right. You know, that all the fun stuff is the stuff that the people who are like Christ and Christmas don't want any part. Yeah, I've been I've been to church on Christmas. It's not fun. There's no part of it where you're like, oh, this is I'm glad I did this.
00:45:30
Speaker
I've been to ones that are a little better that are like they have a band and like they're a little more upbeat and a little a little cooler and But yeah, the majority you go to a Catholic service on Christmas. They still tell you how awful you are now you're going to hell Yeah Christmas and they make you get up and down a lot. Yeah. Oh and the kneeling my knees can't handle that Yeah, and you gotta put the thing that it's it's really and then yeah, yeah, then you accidentally drop it. It's really loud and you're like, sorry, sorry And why do I call them pews what a weird name?
00:45:58
Speaker
Sit in a pew. Because they're painful. And that's true. A chair that's painful. Why can't they make seats that are actually comfortable? Why is that? That don't make you accept Jesus better. There's a lot of old people who go to church. Why are you making them sit like that? Although maybe it's good for their spine. And why is the holy water case so bad? I don't get that. They never, they never clean it. They only bless it.
00:46:27
Speaker
How would it kill you to drop a little, drop a little tab of chlorine in there once in a while? And then you'll drink it and it'll be much better. Make you poop, make you poop fast.
00:46:40
Speaker
So society already said that. So cultural cultural phenomena often follow a cycle of emergence, controversy, adaptation and eventual acceptance. Kind of like what I talked about in my monster episode. Perhaps the elf on the shelf shelf serves as a mirror to current societal dynamics. Oh, OK. To answer Greg's question from earlier, how does this pertain? I think history defeated John. He was sitting right next to you giving you shit about it.
00:47:08
Speaker
So you're not paying attention trying to blame him. No, no, I don't want I want the credit. Good luck. You got the shit you give us when we don't tie together. So he's going to do it right now. It's better. Let's see how this is. This is a very good example of history defeating itself because we're constantly finding ways to take something innocent and make it into something super cynical. Did you figure that out as a shower? It is not.
00:47:35
Speaker
So you didn't see me in the shower earlier? Like, like, I do what I do what I do. I think that's untrue and cynical, Kevin. No, I don't think it's coming from you. It's surprising. I agree. That does sound like something I would say. Yes, but but I think here's the thing. I think and maybe I, you know, you guys think I had to tie it into this fucking talk. I actually enjoy Christmas. I do. And Greg, you do to John. He's he's a heathen. But I love Christmas. It's that you can drink and then not have to get up the next day.
00:48:03
Speaker
I'm not talking about a day off of work. Oh, well, like the like the season. I enjoy the season. And I feel like there has got to. It's I have the as I was doing this episode, I was just like, Jesus Christ, like I guess that's probably nothing to say. But I was kind of rolling my eyes like, man, people, people are. I was reading some articles where people were like, there's a Vox article like that. You know, Vox is legit. A whole thing about how insane it is that we allow families to do this off on the shelf.
00:48:30
Speaker
It was really, really intense. And I'm like, it's a fucking doll on a shelf that, and maybe it's also because I'm the parent of a toddler and anything I can do to make this kid behave is welcome. That's right. But also like, I don't think it's, who cares? Like, why is it?
00:48:48
Speaker
you know, why is it a big deal to have to say, OK, you know, you got to be good. And so, you know, saying I'll bring it, there's no difference between the elf on the shelf and Santa Claus. Like you said, Jesus and devil, like there's no it's all about just like, I don't know, tools and all that stuff. But really, what the reason that that it bothers me is because
00:49:08
Speaker
It's it really just becomes a tradition like you did the funny little things where you had the the hanging from the van or whatever. And like, you know, it's just a fun thing around the holidays. You know, who gives a shit? You know, like I think that's what that's where I feel like history defeats itself, because every time there's something like this, we find we try to find like a way to make it to make a conspiracy out of it, I guess. That is true. Any anything you see on any social media doesn't matter how uplifting and good it is.
00:49:38
Speaker
You read the comments and someone fucking criticizes it. You could literally put a recipe on how to make brownies. And then people are going to give out the woodworks to tell you what a piece of shit you are. Do you know how many cows have to die for those brownies? Yeah. How much butter's in that asshole? Do you know that cocoa comes from the Congo and that people die for that?
00:50:01
Speaker
This is just three liberal dudes saying this stuff. I do think that it's kind of ridiculous. So that's my spiel on how history continues to defeat itself with silly little stuff like this. God damn it, John. You tied it to the ghetto pretty fucking well.
00:50:17
Speaker
The elf on the shelf does not matter. It is not going to teach kids that we're in a surveillance state. It's just not. The cameras everywhere are going to teach that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, those will. Those will.
Conclusion with Humor and Song
00:50:29
Speaker
And I guess, right, because you do want your kids to understand consequences, right? So then you are teaching the consequences. And then even though when they figure out that, you know, ho-ho's not real or, you know, whatever.
00:50:41
Speaker
You know, then by that point, you know, it's like, it's just, it's like, I think it's a cycle of, because I'm sure you're not just doing that as a parent to just go that one thing throughout your life, throughout their day, every day, over and over again, you're teaching these lessons. And it's just another way to teach that lesson. And people just need to fucking chill out.
00:50:56
Speaker
And also, I've known people that are just like, well, I would never tell my kids that there's a shit, I would not lie to my kid like that. You're bullshit. How fun was that when you were a little kid? That you actually, I mean, Christmas morning,
00:51:13
Speaker
Greg, mute us for a little bit. Christmas morning was special. It was special. You wake up and you have this tree with nothing under it and there's cookies and there's just like all this stuff under there that you get to open. You're crazy excited. It's so exciting. Who cares? What's wrong with a Santa Claus? What's wrong with a dreidel? I think. I think. Because it teaches gambling.
00:51:43
Speaker
I think as long as you put the caveat on it, like, Hey, Christmas is fun, but stay away from dudes with beers. Like the only, the only guy you should trust is Santa. And don't trust him without your father around or your mom around. And this is him saying this, which is actually kind of alarming. And I don't want you near my son. I'm just saying he got like snacks from him. That's true. So that's all I got. Last call.
00:52:11
Speaker
It's gold. Cheers to Santa Claus. All right, Santa. Good work. Thank you, Greg. John, it was wonderful having you here. It was been a blast. Now get the fuck out of my house. I'm really sweaty.
00:52:26
Speaker
You guys always ask why I'm all red. I'm like, it's so warm in this room. You know, you can control the climate in your house, Kevin. No, not in this room. I don't know what it is. It's a tiny room. She's down there turning into heat every two minutes. She's like one more degree. Oh God, I can't wait for her to be done with this stupid podcast. She's gonna cook you out of there. Thanks, guys. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy holidays.
00:52:55
Speaker
The weather outside is frightful, but the fire inside burning the house down to get out. That doesn't know Christmas life. Call the fire department because I don't want to die on Christmas. You lost the tune, buddy. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.