Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Opinions | A Comedy Podcast
339 Plays1 year ago
Not to be outdone by last episode's foray into philosophy by John, Greg is leading the charge this time on another philosophical-ish topic: people's difficulty changing their opinions. At least, I think that's what it was about.
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and humor
00:00:00
Speaker
Did he just switch glasses? Yeah, he put on his podcasting glasses. I did. He's like Mr. Rogers. When Mr. Rogers comes home and he takes off one pair of shoes and puts on a different pair of shoes. These are computer glasses. Ah. Fancy. You guys are blurry with my progressives. My other glasses are my masturbatory glasses. And they have windshield wipers.
00:00:31
Speaker
History Defeats Itself is a comedy podcast. Kevin, John, and Greg are not experts, historians, or even all that smart. Welcome to History Defeats Itself. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thank you for joining us tonight. We are a comedy podcast that wonders why we never seem to learn from our history. Of course, I am joined by two men.
00:00:59
Speaker
who are the only two people that I know of who are being indicted for more things than Donald Trump, Greg, and John. How are you guys? Really good. Hey guys. It kind of looks like you're playing, it kind of looks like you're playing the keyboard. I'm playing the intro. I would just like to say in our defense, what really fucked us up was the Rico statue. Was that what it was? If not for that, then we would have five indictments. In fairness, it's very confusing.
00:01:23
Speaker
Like they should really, they should have signs up all over a city about what crimes are crimes and what are not crimes. Okay. Any more clarification? Yes. You know they say ignorance of the law is no excuse. Bullshit. That's our defense.
The role of satire and controversial topics
00:01:41
Speaker
Bullshit. I didn't know I couldn't just walk around grabbing women by the pussies. I had no idea. If you can't do that, what do you got these things for?
00:01:52
Speaker
Good enough for me, God damn it. America. America. How are you guys? They're my flag hand, eh? Hanging hands. And my pussy grabbers. Aw, that's gotta get us canceled. We're taking back America. Yeah, that's how you do it too. Yep. Sexual assault. I'm doing really well with sexual assault and racism.
00:02:19
Speaker
These are jokes, by the way. This, this podcast does contain a certain element of satire. Can you spell that backwards? Nope. All right. Now I'm out. Did you guys ever watch that spell, that movie, that spelling bee movie with Jason Bateman?
00:02:40
Speaker
Yeah. I can't remember what it was called. That's a good movie. Fuck, I can't remember what it was called. I don't think so. You should tune it in, man. Just Google Jason Bateman spells or something. Okay. The B or something like that. I don't remember what the fuck, but it's good. Well, good. I'm glad you liked it. John, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. I'm doing well as well. Yeah. Yes.
00:03:01
Speaker
Well now that we got that out of the way.
Technical mishaps and podcast dynamics
00:03:03
Speaker
Yes. Looking good. I am sweating. I'm sweating profusely because I'm in a 94 degree house. 94. You don't look sweaty. It's getting caught in the beard. John's like a dog. He just pants and then that's how he sweats. All sweat comes out of his paws. I don't know about you guys, but I breathe out of my gills. I haven't evolved to that yet.
00:03:29
Speaker
Give it time. Follow us on social media. We're on TikTok and all the way, I haven't posted on TikTok in forever. Well, last episode, we apologize. Greg's video got all fucked up. It was all Greg's fault. Oh, I hear about that now. Greg, I don't think we're recording anymore.
00:03:50
Speaker
What? Oh, it's weird. Cause like my, I'm not showing like, you know how normally I look at shows like the little like people's voices going up and down and stuff on the bars on the bottom. How do you look, Kevin? You look good. Cause in my end it doesn't look good. I could see you're recording just fine, John Banks. Okay. I hope that's the case. This is like helping my mom attach a file to an email. How do you, how do you, I have a question. How do you get the paper in the computer to attach it?
00:04:16
Speaker
use a 3d printer, but put it in reverse. I think you want a 4d, a fourth, reverse shredder. Yeah. Or just put the shredder you have in reverse. Yeah. That does put it back together. A few people realize that I do that money. All right. It's Greg's turn. It's Greg's turn. Yes. So fucking go. I'm tired of tired of listening to you guys.
00:04:44
Speaker
I'm
Changing minds and personal growth
00:04:45
Speaker
going to start now, angry Kevin. Okay. Co-hosts and mystery. I was very fired up in the intro. All right, let's go. And historians. John Banks was the inspiration for this episode of HDI. So obviously on its face, it's going to be terrible. Oh, is it the history of handsome? Yeah, that you're definitely the before.
00:05:10
Speaker
Oh, why? No, he's like the post handsomeness with that beard. Wait, that makes him extra handsome. No, it's post handsomeness. Oh, he went from handsome to ugly? Yeah, yeah. It's a bell curve. Oh. Started ugly. He used to be at the top of his hair. Back to ugly. He was a really ugly kid. So now he's getting in. Very attractive middle aged man. Now not so much. Now he's leading the class and used to be handsome.
00:05:38
Speaker
Everyone's mad at him. Stupid John Ruck curve. All right. John actually inspired me in two different ways from his last topic. This episode is going to be John and Banks heavy, by the way. So buckle on. The first way was that he discussed, I omitting an insult, John. So just know that I'm trying to be nice. It's hard. Thanks.
00:06:08
Speaker
First way is that he discussed someone. I can't remember who. The positive history came around in cycles and we're certainly fated to repeat them in a pretty regular manner. I kind of like that episode because any topic that challenges free will kind of makes my ears perk up. But besides that, his topic was the very fiber of what we try to accomplish at HDI. Getting to whether or not history does defeat itself or if we can make a change.
00:06:35
Speaker
Before I get to my topic, I'll explain how John inspired it. Inspired the topic, you ready, John? This is just for you. This is going on way too long. Kevin, you can leave.
00:06:48
Speaker
Can I leave, too? John, I love you. Oh, I don't want to go then. I want to stay. OK, more. This is going to get ugly for a second, but I promise it'll have a positive ending, John. I don't believe you. John is going to get me to not interrupt you. It is just I just keep lavishing compliments. It's going to be mean, but then it's going to go. It's going to turn. Don't worry. That's all. That's all abusers operate. That's true. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I knew the shit sandwich. Only the shit's on the outside. The shit's the bread.
00:07:22
Speaker
Also, I got a deal on this shit, so the shit's also in the middle. Well, a lot of people don't know shit is gluten-free, so... And John has IBS. Yep. Probably because of the shit sandwiches. So there's plenty to work with. For me to eat shit sandwiches? Yep. Okay, John... This is where you get serious, guys, and it's really mean towards John, so pay attention.
00:07:47
Speaker
John for one has consistently challenged the way that I viewed how we should produce and construct our shows. When John presents a topic, my opinion, and you have to remember it is more importantly or was my opinion, he took himself and his views way too seriously and that kind of bothered me.
00:08:09
Speaker
The reason why, wouldn't it be fun if my thing cut out right now and I never got to the good part? The reason why is because the relationship that I've had with John for, what, 13 years? Is it 13 years? Probably more than 13 years, right, John? I mean, now, yeah, we've known each other almost like 16 and a half. So for 16 years, the relationship we've had. 16 years, three months, four days. Who's counting? Let me check my John Banks' naked calendar.
00:08:37
Speaker
Okay, so it's a little wordy. It's a little wordy, but I know what I mean. Okay. The reason why we get along so well is because we share the same stupid sense of humor, which is pretty mature, but also kind of vulnerable. Right, John? Would you agree? Did you say pretty mature? Immature. Okay, good. I just want to make sure. You're like, I got a, whoa, whoa, whoa, back this truck up.
00:09:03
Speaker
So anyway, I thought I knew everything about John. And when the two of us, along with stupid Kevin, decided to do a podcast, it really kind of surprised me that John took on topics that were very heady and on their face, not very funny. As a matter of fact, he kind of left me and Kevin to do all the heavy lifting and make it funny. Sure.
00:09:22
Speaker
So you guys went on and on about how funny you are and you always told me, no matter what, you can make anything funny. Well, I guess you couldn't. We didn't want you to fucking have to do a podcast about dirt, though, because that's hard to make funny. But you did it anyway. Did we do dirt? I don't think we did, but that's next week. Good. Good. Because that's my next topic. So I kind of dismissed John's topics.
00:09:46
Speaker
while we were recording. And I don't mean completely, I enjoy the conversations and learning, but I definitely put up a block wall in my thinking about John. I always thought his better strength was his humor.
00:09:57
Speaker
That is until this past episode where I had an epiphany. Oh, no. That can't be good, Jon. You can use a cream to get rid of that. To get rid of epiphanies? Yes. Jon, is it? Epiphanies related to Jon. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. You don't get rid of them. They don't go away. You just tamp down the break out. That's what you're doing. Forever. Like hemorrhoids?
00:10:19
Speaker
Just my epiphanies. Any epiphany you get from me is gonna be with you until the end of your life. So it's like a fat self, too. And it will flare up at the worst times. Yeah, yeah. When you're under stress, that's really when it's gonna come out. Some people get sciatica, other people get John epiphanies. Okay, so here's the epiphany I had. John isn't funny either.
00:10:41
Speaker
Okay, that was a bad joke. I mean... Oh, that was a joke. Yeah, that part was a joke. You want to redo that? Yeah, I do. My timing was off because you guys threw in all their John Hemorrhoid jokes. Those were pretty good, too. They were way better than your joke. As the podcast should be working. That means it's effective, okay? I'm setting you up.
00:11:04
Speaker
I mean, John shared solid information and insight about his topic and my opinion and my mind change. So during the last episode, John, you actually really kind of knew what you were talking about. And I realized
Societal norms and engaging opposing views
00:11:22
Speaker
I never fucking gave you proper credit for for doing that. Like, I never really liked that part of John.
00:11:28
Speaker
And so I let myself like that part of John and then it gave me a new reason to love John. So I know it sounds like I'm being really hard on him. Are you deep down really, really big at it against the, I guess maybe xenophobic against the South? Because maybe because I was from the South, you're like, how could that stupid idiot from the South know anything? No, that's when I feel like I'm going to turn into a race. I've always liked the Duke boys. All right. Well, I mean, hey, I wasn't too happy about them painting the Confederate flag on the roof of their car, but
00:11:55
Speaker
But they got a hold of a lot of dynamite and they would jump bridges. Some good old boys. Never doing no harm. Never doing no harm. The chassis of that car was incredibly strong. So how did this happen? How did I start respecting John? Did something change within me that allowed my mind to change? Or did something external happen that informed my change? Before we get to the answer, I may as well get to the topic.
00:12:25
Speaker
It's how to change your mind. Or I guess how to change my mind. We're doing another episode about Greg that Greg is leading. It's about, it's for anybody. How does anyone, how does one change one's mind? All right. Do you want an answer?
00:12:45
Speaker
I did a bunch of research. Feel free to jump in because it's not like revelatory information, but it's kind of cool when I found it. Go ahead. I think usually the best way to change someone's mind is to ask questions that make them think.
00:13:06
Speaker
I prefer threats. I like Kevin's way better. People do respond well to threats. They do. You can beat an opinion into somebody if you want to. Absolutely. Or at least get them to on the outside. Yeah. Believe it. Well, the inside doesn't matter. It might not be in their heart, but it's gonna come out of their mouth. Yeah.
00:13:26
Speaker
Don't really give a shit about their heart. I believe they call that re-education camps. They call that waterboarding.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So let's see here. There are so many incredible benefits of challenging oneself to a shift of opinions. Even if your mind doesn't change, at least you've delved into thinking about your alignments, both logically and emotionally. And if we are not to defeat ourselves as individuals,
00:14:01
Speaker
or as a society, it'd be a good idea to have some flexibility in our thinking to not spend all of our time looking for handles to fly off of when someone defends our delicate sensibilities.
00:14:17
Speaker
It's very, very, this is very appropriate these days for sure. I feel like you are coming at me aggressively with microaggressions, not full aggressions. I got to go macro. Can you go aggressively with microaggressions? I mean, you aggressively microaggress. So I do prefer my aggression in the micro form because I want it to be very clear that you are upset with me. So screaming and cursing is encouraged. OK.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's how you're able to kind of yeah, I don't understand I don't I don't get social cues or nuance so I smile and say that I think you're a giant piece of shit. You'll just be like Thank you. Thanks. I am I am a giant piece of shit Kevin
00:15:03
Speaker
you keep talking beautiful smile man yeah so okay how how do we change our minds I'll try to answer that question specifically to the John Banks example and the episode will be science and psychologically based information sharing hmm and you guys are more than welcome to participate
00:15:23
Speaker
Since we're here, I could have done it alone. I was going to knit a sweater, but since I'm holding my own podcast. Can I interject? No. Please don't. Oh, I can? I thought you said no. Now go ahead. What's your name again, Kevin? Because this episode is John Banks focused. It is, yes, yes. My name is Greg Mitchell.
00:15:52
Speaker
I should really write Kevin on my screen where you are. Put it on there. So there's something when we used to do more serious podcasts, even though we're a comedy podcast, you know, we got some, we got, we got a little too heavy at times. We knew that. But John used to say something, speaking of John, that he was, he would be like, we need to, we need to listen more to the other side. We need to stop blocking out the other side when you're talking about political arguments and things like that.
00:16:19
Speaker
The problem that I always have with that is- Oh shit, it's because John said it and it was- No, no, no, no. When someone on the other side is just wanting to take away people's human rights, how do I listen to that person?
00:16:40
Speaker
Well, it's not to say that you can't... I think the purpose is not to necessarily change your opinion, especially when it comes to human rights violations or taking advantage of people. I mean, by all means, you can have the opinion that those people are dangerous and assholes. So it's not so much to change your own mind about it. But maybe...
00:17:03
Speaker
see what you can do as an influence in society to try and help change their thinking, even though it might not be feasible. But you know, it's probably futile. And I guess my point is, what's the benefit of me having a dialogue with someone who wants to take away women's rights or gay rights or trans rights or any of that? Basically, let's just say it.
00:17:27
Speaker
Florida. Basically it's just Florida. How am I supposed to listen to someone who believes in that?
00:17:39
Speaker
Well, my opinion is that I think if you ask people questions, and even no matter how they answer them, what you're doing is you're planting seeds, and maybe those seeds bear fruit, and maybe they don't. But I guarantee you this, if you don't have those conversations, and that person's in an echo chamber, that person will never change their views unless something
00:18:05
Speaker
crazy happens, right? Whatever that would be. Unless they realize 10 years down the road that they were trans, right? And then they'd be like, oh shit. Which could happen, because I think a lot of times the reason people are so upset by things like that is because it's a very, we've talked about it, it's a threat, it's a threat to them. So then you get mad, it's a threat. So anyway, not funny.
00:18:29
Speaker
The only reason that I brought, I actually thought about that recently, and I don't remember why, but I thought about that recently, and when Greg introduced this topic of changing minds, it just feels sometimes like there's just no getting through to certain people. And then that's also, some might say that's me being egotistical because I'm saying my view is right,
00:18:55
Speaker
But okay, I'm not sure that my view is right on everything, but I feel like human rights it is. You know, I want people to have equality. So how do you, I guess it's hard for me to reconcile. Well, it is difficult. Obviously it's difficult to reconcile with somebody that's opinion is maybe hate filled or oppressive.
00:19:13
Speaker
And obviously, that's a difficult thing. So I think that sometimes people's opinions are formed for shock value. And we are also going to talk about this hopefully as we get into the episode because I did research on it is, you know, you link into a certain group of society and
00:19:35
Speaker
And then you kind of swallow all of their ideologies that you want to reinforce and everything that kind of sticks with you. And that helps to solidify your opinion. You feel like you belong to a group and then you just relish.
00:19:50
Speaker
I think people relish being assholes and playing devil's advocate oftentimes. And they don't realize that what they're doing is creating real trauma and damage. And sometimes they don't give a shit. But if you don't have the dialogue,
00:20:06
Speaker
I refuse to be cynical about it because I think that you can probably change one mind at a time. I don't think you can change a whole group at once because a group is dangerous and kind of moves on its own, but individuals in that group
00:20:23
Speaker
Usually you can talk and I think I think you just treat those come right like I just like to treat those conversations is I just like think of it like I'm curious and I'm a reporter and I want to find out as I'm gonna find out as much about you and why I'm a proper order see but I got a bunch of questions I'm gonna touch us up with like a hat a little Pressing in there
00:20:44
Speaker
If I don't think like that, then I get heated, right? Because I disagree with a lot of that stuff. So if I argue with someone, I don't change how to do that. He gets like a microwave in July. He gets like the house he's currently staying in. Yes, hot. I get real hot. Humid. Humid even. He gets like a Maxim magazine cover in 2004.
00:21:08
Speaker
Look, I think I'm someone who has a lot of empathy, not for YouTube, but for other people. And I think that, like, it's hard, you know, it was a pretty good burn. But, you know, it's hard to listen and, you know, have a dialogue and try to understand someone who's so, you know, against everybody having equal rights.
Shifts in societal views and the death penalty
00:21:34
Speaker
I guess that's my whole point.
00:21:36
Speaker
That's all. But we should continue with the episode. And I want you to know that what I'm going to tell you and how I'm going to talk about changing minds and stuff like that isn't to make you necessarily conform to their dogma or their opinions. It's more so to maybe help them see the light because I promise you, we are not right about a lot of shit we think. Of course. Yeah.
00:22:06
Speaker
I think just having an open mind, somewhere along the way, all of us kind of close our open minds, even though we like to proudly suggest that we are open-minded. We've kind of developed these habits and we have these friends that don't challenge us, because if you're friends with people that are constantly challenging you, you get annoyed with them. So everyone kind of marches together arm in arm with the same opinions on a lot of things. A lot of things that matter.
00:22:34
Speaker
A lot of opinions that we have is shit that doesn't fucking matter. And it, I don't have a lot, it's amazing how many things I don't have opinions on. Most of my opinions don't matter. Like most of the things that I really care about and look at in the world, they really don't matter. Like Greg and I know sports, like how we feel about certain things involving sports, it doesn't really matter. But we have strong opinions on it. Right, right. And very attached to it. And very, very attached to it. Like emotionally, and there's like a tribe. Don't get me started on what's happening in college football right now.
00:23:04
Speaker
Oh, God. Well, I don't even want to talk about it because I wouldn't know what to say. I don't know what's happening in college football, and I just learned that colleges have football teams. All right. I'm going to mute both of you guys and go on a tirade for the next 40 minutes. Damn it. We never should have controlled the Kevin. He's not a benevolent God. Not sure that you gave me control. Pretty sure I took it. Yeah, he did. He's a fucking control freak.
00:23:33
Speaker
I'm going to change the password to everything tonight. I'm going to take the power back. Take the power back to the people. So how do we change minds? Much of this research came from Freakonomics. I love Freakonomics. Yeah, you do, John. God damn it, you do. I really do. Son of a bitch. And you know who doesn't? Kevin. I like Freakonomics. Well, he only likes them when they talk about college football.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, not a lot, not a lot of episodes of that. Not a lot of that. I bet they have one where they do talk about sports though. I believe it, yeah. I'm gonna have to use some self-editing because... Are we talking about the podcast? Because I've not read the book. Yeah, I have not read the book either. I think John got me the book one year with the first one. Thanks, John. You did a little inscription. You're Greg.
00:24:23
Speaker
I know you're not going to read this, but here's a book for your bookshelf. I'm going to read it to you every night when I tuck you in. It's very tender. Here's a bunch of articles of things that are counterintuitive. You know your assumptions about gold? They're wrong.
00:24:49
Speaker
Turns out it's a gateway to hell. Gold kills babies. Gold kills babies has no value and it's going to give you cancer. So give me your gold, signed for economics. All right, here's an interesting fact. Legislators in several Republican controlled states are pushing to eliminate the death penalty.
00:25:11
Speaker
Why is that interesting? Well, we probably know, because most Republicans have typically been in favor of the death penalty. They've said it's a deterrent against the most horrific crimes and a fitting penalty when such crimes do occur. But a lot of Republicans have come to believe the death penalty does not deter crime. They also say the lengthy legal appeals on death penalty cases are too costly for taxpayers.
00:25:35
Speaker
It also counters their pro-life beliefs. And that was my next sentence. Some Republicans also cite moral concerns with a death penalty. Because you're taking a life. You're taking a life and we've proven over and over again there's been all these cases where it's not... We kill innocent people. That happens. So then it's like... Just like in the death penalty episode, we learn that that happens more often to people of color.
00:26:05
Speaker
And remember, that was one of our front of your episodes. Ironically, yes, it was. It was. And that's why I believed in you two. And you constantly let me down. Listen, when you have a method of death that includes throwing a person into a sack with what, a snake and what all was it? A snake, a hyena and a... I think it was a hyena. I think it was a monkey, you idiot. A snake, a monkey and a cheetah?
00:26:32
Speaker
I was like a lion or something. And a trampoline. It was tough. And a grenade. And a turkey. Really the animals weren't necessary when you put the grenade in there. And a Rubik's Cube.
00:26:47
Speaker
with a pen in the middle if you solve it. The Rubik's Cube is how it opened the lock to the bag, to the sack. Which you could have just used a snake to push through. Or you know, it was a bag, you could have just ripped it open. It was a paper bag and they threw it into some water so it got soggy.
00:27:08
Speaker
They're trying to test your mettle. Okay guys, so we've all changed our minds at some point about something. Maybe you were a cat person and now you're a dog person. Maybe you decided the place you lived or the person you loved or the religion you followed needed to be changed. Sure, they're not working for you anymore. Go ahead, do it.
00:27:28
Speaker
but changing your mind is rarely easy, and it's not something you set out to do. Although, if you're like most people, you would very much like other people's, people that change their minds. Like Kevin was saying, he's not so much against his own opinions, he's against other people opinions. That was a way, way quicker way for me to say what I originally wanted to say. Yeah. Hey, everybody. That's why I call you the Cliff's Notes of HCI.
00:27:56
Speaker
I thought it was an insult. I call him Greg Jordash jeans. That's what I call him. Has he ever seen him in a pair of Jordash jeans? Pass for miles. Nothing comes between me and my Jordash. Just my bat wings. So I've always been more of a Z Kev reaching guy. I don't even know what that means. We're getting some big sponsorship.
00:28:21
Speaker
when we build our time machine. I'm a size 48, Jordan Ash.
Music, nostalgia, and personal preferences
00:28:29
Speaker
God, could you imagine if I was the size, I wish I was the size 48. I wish you were wearing Jordash jeans. I really do. Jordash jorts would be even better. Oh, fuck yeah, like homemade jorts. Oh, oh, the overall shorts. Remember those? Oh, yeah. Oh boy. That was not a great look. And it's coming back. Super functional. I mean, yeah, I get that. Who needs a belt?
00:28:58
Speaker
Or pants legs. Or legs on your pants. Well, look how hot it is where you are. That's right, Jon. You could really use what a pair of those right now. Denim makes you sweaty. That is true. And how about when it gets wet? There's nothing worse than wearing a wet pair of these. I bet Jon would be a lot cooler temperature-wise if he got rid of that beard. It's probably only 84 degrees where he is, but that beard's bringing up the heat index. Hey, when you finally decide to shave it, will you do it live on the show?
00:29:26
Speaker
Um, after I shave my balls live on the show. Fine. That's cool. YouTube's pretty lax. I like how he says that like it's a fucking threat. We don't want to see it. Hey, sure. Sure. I'll shave the beard, but you're also getting something you don't want.
00:29:46
Speaker
Surprise sucker. Surprise sucker, we are into it. Jokes on you. I'm a pervert. That's the default to everything. Okay. So whatever changed your mind. Um, uh, let's see, because change your mind. Oh,
00:30:06
Speaker
Changing your mind could mean admitting on some level that you used to be wrong. And you know, some people are super stubborn about that shit. It can be seen as an act of weakness, even heresy.
00:30:19
Speaker
According to Robert Saplowski, a professor of neuroscience at Stanford University, a kind of half neurobiologist and half primatologist, for about 30 years he's divided his time between your basic rat lab
00:30:38
Speaker
Sounded out Craig. You're gonna get there. Okay, you know there's rats in there in a lab that kind of stuff neurons They have neurons and growing in peachy dishes and then studying populations of wild He's done a bunch of shit and sciencey stuff. So fuck it. He said He made a hulk Heard it here first
00:30:59
Speaker
He made an incredible hook with gamma radiation. Unfortunately, the hook died of severe cancer two days later. But for two days, incredibly strong. And he went out on a rampage. Rest in peace, Bruce Banner.
00:31:15
Speaker
Poor guy. Okay, so he went on to say I'm completely of the school of mind. Oh, of the school that the mind is entirely the manifestation of brain. So when there's a change in mind, there's got to be a neurobiological underpinning.
00:31:32
Speaker
In other words, your mind and your brain aren't the same. So your mind is a manifestation of your brain. You know what's interesting about this is that it actually you brought you started by talking about John's previous episode and this is a complete opposite view of John's episode.
00:31:50
Speaker
Right, because John's episode was about that we're predestined in some ways to do stuff based on data that things are cyclical. This is more like you're talking about the science of that, you know, that your brain is controlling stuff. Right, but what he's saying is just so your neural pathways get carved out, and so if you have this opinion, that's actually part of, like it's literally part of your brain. Right. Right, so it's carved into a pathway, so then,
00:32:17
Speaker
It doesn't necessarily contradict what John's research said. Right, and you can change it, but to change it, it's like a big deal to change those neural pathways. It's a lot of work to change a neural pathway. Yeah, but still, there's, what was it, 50 years or whatever? The thing that that guy came up with was that it was about 50 years and something major would happen. Yeah, yeah, better be 50 years. So if you're saying that, then that has to be counter to the idea of the neural pathways, right?
00:32:47
Speaker
I don't see it, but you could be right.
Human behavior and personal growth
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah, I don't I don't I don't see what you're saying It doesn't make any sense at all Kevin to me, but that might be because I'm super stupid That's true, but I I think that you're super stupid Kevin Change your opinion change our minds on that you know what all right fine No what I'm saying is that is that if you're
00:33:14
Speaker
The idea of being predestined is almost like we lack control over outcomes based on data and the fact that things are cyclical. Whereas if it's our brains, then we should have more power to control it, correct?
00:33:43
Speaker
Am I, and I ask this completely out of respect, am I on a punk show right now? I feel like I'm gonna- Okay, here's the thing, here's the thing. Okay, so John's thing was almost more like sort of like- Oh, you can say it again. No, no, no, it's the universe that things are gonna happen.
00:34:03
Speaker
No, no, that wasn't the point. It was saying that humanity repeats itself over and over. Right, but based on the data, it's going to repeat itself like this, almost as if, like, kind of, you know what I brought up last time is that how, you know, you could make the argument if you're someone who believes in atoms and particles and all that stuff that were made up of all these things that we have no free will. I think I brought that up last time, that we, that because these small little
00:34:30
Speaker
things are going to do whatever the hell they want, how do we control them? And to me, that is more in line with what John was saying, and less than how- But how does this research contradict that?
00:34:44
Speaker
Well, if it's just purely change your mind about like maybe even like a mundane thing or something dramatic and big, how does the ability to change your mind? You mean because just the very act of being able to change your mind takes away. Yeah, because it seems like with with the other well, it almost seems predisposed in the in the previous episode. Whereas this almost this seems more like we have more control
00:35:09
Speaker
over our minds. But we do have control of those moments. So the moments come up every 50 years, but the moments don't necessarily end in civil war. So that was a thing because we had one, we made it, so we had a civil war and then we made it through, right? So we made it through the other side. Yeah, that was my understanding too. The outcomes weren't necessarily faded. Yeah, the outcomes aren't faded. The blueprint kind of repeats itself over and over again. He's showing that every 50 years there's these cycles in humanity where
00:35:38
Speaker
You know and it's just it's probably cuz especially in democracies. It's like everybody Funny is Kevin just made himself the dumbest guy on the podcast again What he did yeah, he did how's that because he just didn't understand your last episode I understood the last episode, but I'm saying like there is a certain I know I'm just kidding. Sorry. There's a certain amount of pre of you know of just like
00:36:03
Speaker
Less control, I feel like what we talked about last time was less control versus what you're talking about now. It's like being, believing in astrology versus not. Well, but humans have control because humans, we've been able to, a lot of times, steer ourselves away from falling into the abyss. Okay. Right, so then I would say that it would line up with what he's talking about. You can spin it any way you want, John.
00:36:32
Speaker
Just, I don't know why the results keep coming back to meet me wrong, though. No, that's not, that's not a thing. I mean, here's the thing, Kevin. I'm about to launch my network marketing company, and this theory is a key, key center thing to making it work. If you poke holes in this, I stand to lose millions of dollars. Shut the fuck up.
00:36:55
Speaker
No, I think I was speaking a little bit broader and we got a little specific there, but just about the idea that, you know, control versus not having control. Yeah, yeah. Well, keep that thought and that little argument in your head, not argument, but your thought and just see if it proves itself correct or if it contradicts what I'm about to say. How much longer is this episode? 17 more hours. Guys, it's going to go really fast.
00:37:21
Speaker
I mean, have you ever been to the DMV before? I have. It's the same. It's the same thing. Yeah. We're on number three and your number is one thousand five hundred ninety five thousand three hundred and sixty five. That's not a number. That is a number. OK. Sapolsky has said, in fact, has in fact changed his own mind quite a lot.
00:37:45
Speaker
and he started pretty early. He says, I was raised as an Orthodox Jew in a major neighborhood specializing in that, in Brooklyn. I don't know how you specialize in Orthodox Judaism, but I'm sure he knows, because that's where he was raised. Is it like a martial art form? It is. You know.
00:38:05
Speaker
You've got his latke belt. Is that flying crane? No, that is Orthodox Jew. And somewhere... Crouching, tire, tiger, hidden... Orthodox Jew. This is what makes the episodes longer. Sorry. I'll shut up for the rest of the episode. I think it's super funny.
00:38:25
Speaker
And somewhere when I was around the age of 14, something changed. And that change probably involved updating every molecule in my body, in that I sort of realized, this is nonsense. There's no God, there's no free will, there's no purpose, and I have not been capable of a shred of religiosity or spirituality ever since. So that's a little cynical. Maybe, maybe not.
00:38:50
Speaker
But he did indeed change his mind. One thing Sapolsky noticed about mind changing is that it's easier when you're younger. Just noticing the general phenomenon that we get less open to novelty as we get older.
00:39:06
Speaker
So he kind of worked up a theory and he ends up saying that, and these are probably things that you've heard before. Like people, people are stuck in the fashion that they had when they were like 15 years old. They still listen to the same fucking music they did when they were in their twenties. And if you didn't, if you didn't try eating sushi by the time you're like in your mid twenties, you're probably not going to try it now. We get very set in our ways. And my mom's never had sushi. My parents, my dad had it in Japan during, during the Vietnam war and said he was, he didn't like it. I'm like,
00:39:37
Speaker
I feel like that should be pretty good. But at the same time, a war was going on. So maybe he is. He was like, yeah, he's associating the two. Yeah. Yeah. Every time he ate like a piece of of salmon, he was thinking about, OK, never mind. I don't want to get into that.
00:39:53
Speaker
I agree with you, the music thing is interesting because I'm a music fan as you guys know and I definitely feel like I'm pretty, compared to my friends, I'm pretty good at keeping up with newer stuff and still I gravitate towards stuff that I listen to.
00:40:14
Speaker
when I was younger. And I know some people that like don't listen to anything post, you know, when they were 23 years old, you know, like it's, that's, that's it. That's their window of music and they're not going to, they're, they don't really want to venture out from that. Yeah. I have a buddy that listens to grunge and that's it. And that's it. Yeah. Grunge, put me some grunge. It's like, fuck. It's like, how many times have you heard the song? Like you really, like you need to, I mean, I love,
00:40:41
Speaker
I love crunch music. I grew up on that, but it smells like Teen Spirit comes on and I'm not like, fuck yeah. When was the last time I heard this? When I was a teenager. Actually, it was a week ago. I don't gravitate towards that music that much. It's way more common. Well, you grew up in the South. But I'm saying like 90s hip hop. I listened to that growing up.
00:41:10
Speaker
And I will listen to it, and it does take me back. It's a nostalgic thing, sure. Yeah, and it puts me in this time of my life where it was so stress-free and all this stuff, but I actually like listening to newer music just because, I don't know, it's just I like trying to not get into a habit of it. And I listen to a ton of new music, but I do find myself going back to older stuff a decent amount, more so than maybe I would have thought.
00:41:39
Speaker
So John, I think what we're discussing is maybe the effort that's required to listen to more music. And maybe most people are listening to music to relax and unwind, and it's kind of like doing that with like everyone, like people watch The Office like over and over and over again. It's a good call. It's super easy.
00:41:59
Speaker
Watching and you don't think about it. You can be on the whole fucking time 7,000 times you've seen what I'm sorry Rick and Morty like this, you know Like 10 times if I if I just need to if I need to unwind I'd prefer to watch something I've already seen. Yeah, it's just easier. Yeah Yeah, you see you're not and it take and you have to challenge yourself a lot to listen to new music. Oh
00:42:21
Speaker
Well, it also takes a lot of effort. Like, I mean, it takes a lot of time because you have to, you have to look for, it's easier nowadays because of things like Spotify, but it is, it's, it's work to, to keep up with music for sure. I just say, always play me Taylor Swift's, uh, song list. And, uh, I get a lot of the new music. Did you guys, did you guys go to the eras tour? Did you guys see the eras tour? I missed it and I wanted to see it, but I didn't want to spend $6 billion on it.
00:42:49
Speaker
So it's obviously related to you. It was phenomenal. I'm sure it was. I'm sure it would be. I'm sure she puts on an amazing outfit. I would 100% got it. Someone's like, can I get a free ticket to Taylor Swift? Do you want to go? I'd be like, yeah, I want to go. It'd be so fun. I bet it's so fun. Yeah. She's wonderful. Yeah. The three of us would have gotten free tickets from somebody. We would have been like, yeah, sure, whatever. I'll go cut to us, like all singing every word.
00:43:12
Speaker
For sure. Like there's not a kid in sight near us. No, no, no, no. It was just the three of us. Yeah. We just, we just took ourselves. So you could see how this is kind of related to opinions as well, because forming that, I don't know if I already said that or not, but probably I got to pee. You guys keep going for me. Forming new opinions are just a challenge. We got this.
00:43:35
Speaker
OK, new opinions. Please go on. That's fine. I like the bike shorts he's wearing right now. I mean, they do look out of the bike or basketball. Oh, maybe there he does look a little bit like.
00:43:48
Speaker
Who's that basketball player from the 80s? Oh, he's tall, right? So he's, you know, he could, he could actually, if it wasn't for his lack of athletic ability, he could have been a basketball player. Totally. He can't do anything, but what's funny is he looks just like Adam Sandler and Adam Sandler is stuck in the exact same fashion that he had when he was a teacher. Cause he still plays pickup basketball games and they always show that on social media and shit. And he's wearing the same long ass fucking basketball shorts.
00:44:13
Speaker
It's like he hasn't progressed at all. But Kevin is our Adam Sandler. Hey, should I really continue? Yeah. Keep going. Okay. So we're going to tie this into science a little bit because obviously Sapolsky was, is a biologist, like I mentioned. And the thing that floored him, he said is you can take a lab rat and look at when it's life
00:44:38
Speaker
Look at its life and it's, hold on a second, this sentence is fucking bullshit. Like that's a miserable life. He said that was a miserable life. But then as a biologist, the thing that floored me is you take a lab rat and you look at when in its life it's willing to try a novel type of food and it's exactly the same curve. So rats are like humans in that when they get to a certain age, they won't try new things either. All of the things they're doing is like in a steady routine.
00:45:07
Speaker
And a lot of people don't know that rats get very divided on ideology. They sure do. Yeah. Like half of them who don't believe that the person controlling them is a god and the other half do. And it gets nasty. It gets ugly in those fucking cages, man. The equivalent of a 10 year old lab rat.
00:45:32
Speaker
Hating broccoli just as much as a ten-year-old human does they've literally tested that with them and late adolescence early adulthood There's there's this sudden craving for novelty. No, I didn't Kevin was here the whole time And that's when primates pick up and leave their home troops and transfer into new ones and then by the time you're middle-aged rat You never going to try anything new for the rest of your rat fucking life
00:45:57
Speaker
Because you're a rat bastard. You're a rat bastard. Oh man, you'd have to go back. I miss so much. Basically what Sapolsky was saying was that animals behave much the same way humans do, and they've been tested and studied in their cages. You really get studied in ways when you're a teenager. Yeah, they're like teenagers. They're like, mom, you can't make me do my homework. Then like, I got a project in the morning. I need to get some poster board.
COVID-19 and societal trust issues
00:46:26
Speaker
You're in high school, what are you doing poster boys? I'm a rat! Aren't you getting your PhD? Like what's happening? If you're an AP chemistry kid, I'm just a rat, guys!
00:46:40
Speaker
I'm trying to become a chef. I think I do pretty good for a rat. Yeah, except for my jetty mom. I have thumbs. I don't have thumbs. I have so many limitations. My tail freaks people out. Every time someone sees me in a restaurant, they run.
00:47:01
Speaker
I'm just trying to be me, guys. Okay. I'm editing this as we go, because we're never going to make it through all this stuff. You went back to old Greg, when you used to have 17 pages and notes every episode. I actually don't have that many pages and notes. It's just fucking bullshit. So there's a comment. It's all pointless and meaningless. It's all meaningless. This podcast is bullshit. Change your mind or don't.
00:47:31
Speaker
I'll give a fuck what you do.
00:47:39
Speaker
All right guys, when we talk about changing your mind, we need to acknowledge that every situation is different. Let's say someone in your family holds a position that you find rather odious or repulsive. Why do you find that repulsive? Maybe you think they're ignoring the facts, but can't people hold different positions based on the same facts? Maybe you feel their position lacks more reasoning, but who said morality is one size fits all, or maybe
00:48:08
Speaker
just maybe, they hold the opposite position simply because it's the opposite. So Julia- We call them trolls.
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah, we call them trolls. So Julia Schvetz went on to study people. She had a bunch of fucking arrangements. Some people just like to play devil's advocate for one and other people latch into an opinion and no matter what you do to them, given any kind of science or information or anything like that, if they've made something their life's work, they're never going to change it because it could potentially embarrass them. And the thing that I was thinking of like when I was reading about that was like Dr. Fauci.
00:48:44
Speaker
Dr. Fauci came across as a very controversial figure because he was very scientific and he was giving information and he was very divisive because he was either reinforcing people fucking hating him
00:49:00
Speaker
or he was reinforcing people loving him and treating him like a god. And as more details came out about the virus that we were all learning about, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I'm talking about COVID-19. As more information came out- The cocoa? As we like to call it. We call it a cocoa. Make it cute. Curb our neck of it.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah, as info came out, you know, it was going to change. So not everything he was going to say at the beginning is going to, you know, be completely agreeable to what are you saying towards the end? So, you know, there should be some subtle nuance between shit that's going on and we're learning as we go. But people love the aha gotcha moment because you're saying we should wear a mask. Now you're saying we shouldn't. Now you're saying we should again. Fuck you guys. You're keeping my rights and, you know,
00:49:49
Speaker
There's gotta be some fucking. I didn't love it, it was an inside job. You're right. Exactly, and. Fauci fucking little plane. Keeps going and going, yeah. So it's kinda, these opinion things, it's just so fucking stupid. All of us, all of us, I think, as people just need to, okay, we're all gonna make the best decision that we possibly can on any topic that's important, be it climate change, the death penalty,
00:50:15
Speaker
COVID-19. We're all going to try to do something to protect our families, protect ourselves. And I don't think that we need to kind of see it as so black and white. It's either my way or the highway. I think there's certain things that like climate change and COVID, Dr. Fauci, all that stuff. I feel like it's weird that
00:50:37
Speaker
that sometimes people decide what science they're gonna agree with and what science they're not gonna agree with. You know what I mean? And I think that that's the thing that I found really puzzling about one of the things. I found really puzzling about the divide as far as COVID is concerned because it's like, okay, if you're diagnosed with cancer, if you're diagnosed with this, if you have to do this, if you're gonna go to a hospital, you're gonna get medical treatment, you're gonna do all this stuff. And then the same doctors are saying, hey,
00:51:06
Speaker
This thing's really bad, you should wear a mask. Fuck you, don't fringe on my rights. It's like, why all of a sudden did you decide not to believe the doctors? Why are you picking and choosing what you're gonna believe when things are both based in science? And that's an interesting thing. I'm not really, as much as I sound like I'm attacking people, I'm not. I think it's an interesting thing that people wanna choose what parts they're gonna believe.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's because most people approach these issues from an emotional standpoint. Sure. And a convenient standpoint. And also a group that they identify with and an ideology that they identify with, and they don't want to deviate from that because later on when you go to talk shit about the other group or people that have opposing viewpoints, you want to make sure that you fit right in.
00:51:55
Speaker
Which you said when that becomes an issue based when things when people are dying when millions of people are dying. So so I so for like you know I think when it like on the COVID stuff once we knew that it the vaccine did not stop the spread but certainly helped with the effects of it.
00:52:13
Speaker
Right? I feel like at that point, then they should, you know, like, I feel like we went too far with it, right? And we use, like, the other side used science to go too far with it because it's like, okay, at that point, it is a personal choice. You're no longer, so in other words, if we all have the, if you two have the vaccine and I don't, I'm no more or less or more likely to give you the COVID, or for you to get COVID from me, but your symptoms will most likely be far better than mine.
00:52:38
Speaker
Right. But as far as, so that's a personal choice at that point and it's no benefit to society. Right. But no, that's a very good, that's a very good point. But it took a really long time to land there. Yeah. It took a real long time to land. And there was misinformation from all sides.
00:52:54
Speaker
I mean, cause initially when they said the vaccine was going to come out, it was going to prevent you from getting COVID. They, I mean, they told you when you got, if you got COVID once you were kind of one and done and everyone thought, Oh, I live through COVID. That's over. Check that out. But to your point, Greg, like things, everything was, it was, it was, it's fluid, man. It was fluid. We didn't know. Like, you know, people didn't, we didn't know what this thing was going to do. We just keeping it loose, yo. Couldn't give us a four hour boner. We got to stay agile. Okay. Yeah.
00:53:22
Speaker
Yeah. Right on your feet. Could go this way, could go this way. We don't know because it's a novel virus. My brains, my brains aren't flexible anymore. Yeah. That means new. It's a new virus. It's a new virus that wrote a long book is what you're saying. That's a novella.
00:53:42
Speaker
So, guys, there are a lot of opinions about being able to change your mind. And there's a lot more research. If you want to learn more, contact me. But we're going to kind of wrap this up because it's been going on for a little bit. Go to www.HistoryDefeats.gov slash GregMitchellTalks.com. If you want to hear four more hours on this topic, just make sure you email DoNotReplyAtAPI.com.
00:54:12
Speaker
There's also sections of Greg eating soup, if you're into that weird noise thing. Listen, everyone wants to see you eat soup because that apparently is a real challenge for you. I even made that really interesting video of me feeding soup to John with my feet. That has only gotten a couple views, but I feel like it's building momentum. Both of them are me too. I love that video. It's fantastic.
00:54:38
Speaker
I go to sleep every night with it. The weird thing is I have way more dexterity with my left foot than my right. That is weird. That was the weird part, absolutely. That was the only weird part. That was the only weird part. Everything else was perfectly normal. The viewpoint was from each of our testicles. That was the viewpoint of the video.
00:55:04
Speaker
Well, you know, it's an angle. It's an angle to seldom used, you know? Okay.
Closing thoughts on open-mindedness
00:55:10
Speaker
I'm going to start wrapping it up a little bit. It's kind of a last call. It's kind of whatever. This is how I'm finishing it. So let's hope it's everyone, everyone, join hands and pray it's cohesive. It's a pole ski. The guy was talking about it's a hands across America, Greg addition. That's right.
00:55:26
Speaker
Sapolsky said, we are basically hardwired to divide the world into us and thems, and to not like the thems a whole lot. He goes on to discuss that years ago as he studied the brain, the pervasive belief was that the brain cells only die, but further studying revealed that the hippocampus actually produces brain cells throughout your lifetime.
00:55:50
Speaker
This goes to prove that not only can we continue to grow, but we should be able to adapt our thinking to new information. If you're open minded. My biggest issue with an inability to change your mind opinion is that we will continue to lack understanding and empathy towards differing opinions. We are stopping ourselves from learning because we already think we know it all. We should be able to hash out our own viewpoints by
00:56:16
Speaker
taking in thoughts that oppose our own. That's where cancel culture is dangerous. People are too afraid to ask questions out of fear of being ostracized. Of course, there's the obvious rights and wrongs in society, like what Kevin's talking about, like oppressing people's rights and what have you. I'm not looking for ways to justify committing crimes like that,
00:56:41
Speaker
But more nuanced things like social awareness, that can be heightened with people being more open to change and listening to others' opinions. Like what? What would fall into that social awareness category?
00:56:55
Speaker
Well, I think maybe things like the way people choose to pair up, or maybe not even pair up, maybe people like, throttle up, or quadruple, or whatever. I think we kinda need to- It's called a tripod. It's called a tripod. I don't know if that's true or not. So there's all kinds of social- I think that's three dudes. Oh, is that what you were talking about? That's what I was talking about. What were you saying?
00:57:23
Speaker
Okay, so you're saying like like challenging the quote-unquote social norms to some degree and and like yeah and and it wouldn't I don't think it would hurt to To go back to kind of a way of thinking of live and let live if you're not hurting anybody and they're not doing any damage to someone innocent and
00:57:44
Speaker
Let them fucking go. If John wants to go, see some person that's going to wear high heels and step on his net sack. I mean, granted, that's going to hurt. He's going to, he likes that kind of pain, but it's right. Well, it's the only way I can feel the other kind of pain. It's all tied together. And that's fine to get a good try. Step on my balls. It's, and it's okay. It's totally fine. So with a, with a stiletto too, on top of that, like, Oh my goodness, it pierces. Yeah, I would believe that. Yeah.
00:58:13
Speaker
And you know, many conservatives are turned off by woke culture because it represents an uncomfortable shift in personal paradigms. And I think that conservatives, speaking off the top of my head, I think conservatives are afraid that we're losing touch with
00:58:32
Speaker
what identified and informed their own childhood and how they thought maybe a nuclear family was the right way to go. And I think every time something new comes out, like a new lifestyle, for example,
00:58:47
Speaker
It's so uncomfortable to their ideologies, their paradigm, that they see it as a threat. So they get fucking pissed and they think people are way too sensitive. But when indeed they're the ones that are sensitive. Honestly, that's a really good point. They're the ones that are sensitive. Because they want to fucking change it.
00:59:08
Speaker
So my conclusion on the topic that thoroughly discusses the physiologies that the psychology behind our opinions is much more fascinating. You know that guys, I'm kind of more of a psych guy. As people. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to wrap it up for the last call. It's almost over.
00:59:25
Speaker
As people, we want to find middle ground with friends, coworkers, and family. So much of our identity revolves around our opinions and a sense of belonging to a social group that we admire. It is risky to run against the grain of a political party that you identify with or a friend group you're trying to impress. But if we took the time to analyze and evaluate our stances, even if our opinions don't change, at the very least, we can understand and engage with people that think differently. And honestly, there are not a ton of topics that matter so much that we should fight over them.
00:59:57
Speaker
But what if you know you're always right? Like what am I supposed to do? You're just supposed to suffer in purity. Pure what? You're pure. You're the best. I'm the best around. Nothing's gonna ever keep me down. I'm often compared to Jesus by myself.
01:00:21
Speaker
Well, I say that about you, too. That's true. But that's only because I got nothing. Well, you turned a loaf of bread into 10 loaves of bread and water into wine. Yeah, no, I don't turn water into wine. I buy wine. Whatever. It was free.
01:00:39
Speaker
That's true. So guys, let's sign off by, let's sign off by toasting to people that are open and reminded enough to maybe not necessarily change their opinion, but at least reconsider and have empathy towards other. And hopefully alcohol helps you lubricate that. Actually makes it way worse. Greg, are you still drinking that strawberry vodka thing? I mean, I paid for it. I gotta finish it.
01:01:08
Speaker
No, you don't have to. You're an adult. You can just not... You can not finish it. You can just throw... Nobody's coming in the house and I can't leave open. God, you're dumb. On that note, good night everybody. Good night.