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SURVIVOR - My Life, My Choice
373 Plays4 years ago
I will be telling Lisa two stories today, with eerily similar beginnings but dramatically different endings. I am sure most of you true crime junkies have heard this story before, but hoping I can put a different spin to it! Join us for the stories of Lisa McVey and Bobby Joe Long and how their lives twisted and changed, then resulted in vastly different endings.
If you have suffered sexual abuse, please know there is help out there.
National Sexual Assault Hotline # 1-800-656-4673
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline # 800-273-8255
Also feel free to reach out to us with tips, critiques or stories you like to hear us tell (or just to say hi). TwistedTalestruecrime@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Trigger Warnings
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi guys, and thanks for tuning in to Twisted Tales with Lisa and Faith. Put your name first. Oh, yeah. Just saying it. It was a joke. It was. But tonight, I will be telling Lisa two stories. And some of you will probably know this if you are any kind of true crime listener.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hopefully we'll bring something new or if not say something that makes you think and or just entertain you so Tonight I'm gonna start both of these stories are about sexual abuse in one way or another I chose both of them because April is the sexual assault awareness month Just it's a month to bring forth information on sexual harassment assault and abuse and
00:00:56
Speaker
and it can happen anywhere, including online spaces. And we just wanted to bring awareness to that. If you have suffered any kind of sexual abuse in your past, we truly apologize about that and want to issue trigger warnings for the information going to be talked about tonight. So just please take care with that. There will be some links in the show notes of different resources if you need those or if you know someone that does.
00:01:24
Speaker
Here we go. No, before we get started, I feel like that I don't get to have any background to anything you're about to talk about. So I'm going to go ahead and just apologize for what my reactions might look like.
00:01:45
Speaker
So, okay, now go. Okay, now go.
Early Life of Robert Joe Long
00:01:47
Speaker
Now go. I'm going to start out with a story of Robert Bobby, is what he was called, Joe Long. He was born in Virginia in 1953, and he was born with a syndrome called Kleinfelter syndrome, which is an extra X chromosome.
00:02:06
Speaker
Um, the reason why this, this syndrome kind of plays into effect for him is one of the, one of, one of the results of this condition is excess estrogen production, which creates female like traits, breast development. Right. And he actually had this, he developed breasts in his younger years and was definitely made fun of a lot. It's like, I can already see where this is going, dude. That's so messed up. He actually underwent breast reduction surgery in his
00:02:36
Speaker
for this like youth as in as an adolescent. I never got like like before puberty or after puberty or just after puberty from some of the more. I mean, I feel like after after puberty is kind of wearing everything just kind of hits the fan. Yeah. OK, so he was born his mother, Luella.
00:02:57
Speaker
was not the best mother from all sources. There's not like a ton of details. She was a cocktail waitress. She was reported to wear very revealing outfits like that matters anything and everything he's about to bring forth. But she brought a lot of different men home with her. I tell you both of these things for a reason. We'll get to that in story two. But it's also important to note that in every source and every site I listen to,
00:03:23
Speaker
He shared a bed with his mother till age 13. Even when they lived in places that allowed for him to have his own bedroom, he slept in bed with his mother, same bed, till 13.
00:03:36
Speaker
fear or anxiety, like why? You don't know. Was there abuse? You don't know. It's never clarified. Some people alluded to their hints. It might have been a hinky situation, but that's all they say. Everybody notates that though. Okay. So he had a lot of issues against women starting with his mother. That's a lot of excites with his mother with his mother.
00:04:04
Speaker
So basically what you're saying right now is we're just going to start piling on some excuses. Yeah, that's what we're doing. At the end, we're taking away Alex Jesus, so it's okay.
Long's Injuries and Behavioral Changes
00:04:17
Speaker
So at age five, he was playing on a swing set and he fell off the swing set right onto his head and had a pretty good head bump.
00:04:28
Speaker
which was the first of long series of head injuries that he had. Okay, look, that's not the first person that I have heard about who gets their skull bashed and turns into a creeper. Yes, so. All right. Around age 13 or 14, he became friends with Cindy Bartlett, or Cynthia Bartlett's her full name.
00:04:49
Speaker
They were friends all through. They've done several interviews with her. And she said that he was just a normal kid. He was fun. If anybody tried to make fun of her or was mean to him, he obviously would be very quick to throw punches. But what 13, 14 year old boy isn't? My eight year old does. Exactly. And also, I think that it's a little bit later adolescence because she talked about how when they went swimming or anything during the summer,
00:05:18
Speaker
He always had to wear a t-shirt because he developed breasts. Right. OK. And so and he's very embarrassed by it very since. So obviously sometimes it's not like it is now. Like things aren't as accepted back then. Correct. And it wasn't something he chose. It was it was a result. Literally just something that's happening to you. OK. Yeah. So he dropped out of 10th grade twice.
00:05:41
Speaker
I don't know how twice, but he dropped out twice. Well, maybe he decided to go for a second round and see maybe if things were a little bit better. And then he was like, you know what, still can't do it. Yep. So he joined the army and he was stationed about an hour away from his mother. He married his high school sweetheart, Cynthia Bartlett. They had two children together. However, I believe it was about a year into his army service, he was driving his motorcycle.
00:06:10
Speaker
and ended up getting into a really bad crash and blessed his head again. He was in a coma for three days. Dang, man, like.
00:06:20
Speaker
Like they said the crash was so bad that he cracked his helmet. Okay. But like you, you look at boxers nowadays, you know what I mean? Like Muhammad Ali, these people who literally had so many brain traumas that they can't function anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Actually a guy I worked with, his dad played in the NFL and was like played for teams that won a Super Bowl.
00:06:41
Speaker
And he had dementia. And they say, I mean, he got a stipend or whatever, because it was from all the concussions because he played like back in the day when it was like, you know, no blood, no foul type of deal. But I mean, he was the sweetest old man ever. He just he just couldn't remember anything. So head trauma, you know, there's science for both ways. We'll just leave it at that. We're not educated. Yeah. However, when he was in the hospital and we woke up from his coma, he was different.
00:07:13
Speaker
He they said that he would have just unpredictable, violent outbursts of anger and that he also became obsessed with sex to the point of he was in a body cast. Who's they? The nurses, his wife, Cynthia, the nurses actually said they would catch him in a full body cast masturbating at least five times a day.
00:07:42
Speaker
Nobody rang a bell? Dramatic difference. Well, and his wife even said, cause like I said, they've interviewed her. She said that before this they would have sex maybe two or three times a week. And after this rec, and when he got home, he would make her have sex multiple times a day. Like they went from two or three times a week to like three or four times a day, plus his masturbating an additional three or four times a day.
00:08:08
Speaker
So there is, there's a bunch of research that people have gone back and forth on both sides that head injuries, specific head injuries, who caught hypo-sexualism, I don't know enough about that, but that's thrown out there. If you know more, please feel free to tell me. I don't. But anyway, so he and Cynthia continue on and she tried to stay this marriage because she's been with him, I mean, they've known each other since 13, 14.
00:08:36
Speaker
she's loved him since high school. And a lot of it is he had, I mean, he had a huge wreck. He was in a coma. He could have died. You've got to, you've got to commitment. It's loyalty. And it's, this is going to stop. Like he's going to snap out of this.
00:08:50
Speaker
It did not. Right. It got so bad that it was reported that he once choked her to unconscious, then slammed her head into it. Okay. And she says, this is her in an interview. She said, when I came to you, I was on the couch and he was sitting there crying. And he just kept saying, I'm so sorry, I'll never do it again. I'm so sorry. But his literal next words to her work, when you drive yourself to get stitches, if you tell them what really happened, I'll kill you when you get home.
00:09:21
Speaker
Okay, pause. That was one sentence, like, consider to run on. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. Do you remember, like, the soap boxes that you had in our first episode? I had a couple. I have a soapbox about this. Like, ladies, if a man puts his hands on you,
00:09:48
Speaker
He is okay with I don't care if he tells you you're he's sorry or he'll never do it again like It's like they say about cheaters once a cheater always a cheater. Oh my gosh It just had that conversation at work today yesterday yesterday That's insane, but like people don't just change their stripes in a day If he is so willing to put his hands on you right and then wake up and basically say
00:10:17
Speaker
Well, if you tell anybody what really happened, I'm going to kill you. But he did apologize first. It's not an apology, though. I know. You said the first step, he didn't break a vase, dude. I got it. OK, you put your hands on a person. Y'all just get up and run. Just run before kids are involved, before anything else is involved. You will find love. I am swearing up and down, left and right.
00:10:47
Speaker
There is another guy out there that will love the crap out of you and never put his hands on you. Well, in 1980, just six years ago. Way to cut me off. I'm just saying. That's exactly what Cynthia did. She packed up her kids and she pieced out of there. Good girl. So the problem with this is he is forcing her into sex multiple times a day and masturbating and now he doesn't have sex anymore.
Criminal Activities and Rape Charges
00:11:17
Speaker
Oh.
00:11:17
Speaker
OK, see that coming, did you? Actually, yeah, I kind of did, because, you know, based on, yep, well, true crime, clearly. Yeah, well, between 1981 and 1984, so four years, three years, maybe put on the start and finish. It is reported that there is an estimated 50 women he raped. 50, 50.
00:11:47
Speaker
Um, he was actually, what he would do is because he couldn't, he couldn't force his wife to have sex multiple times a day. Um, when his wife left date, they, they relocated. He relocated. He moved to the Miami Fort Lauderdale region in Florida. Um, and he would go through ads like penny ads or the classifieds. And he would look like, kind of like a Craigslist in today's furniture.
00:12:16
Speaker
Oh my God. And he'd call and he'd set an appointment to go view this furniture. And he'd get to the house, he'd make the appointment for the middle of the day thinking husbands, boyfriends aren't going to be at work, are going to be at work, kids are going to be at school. She'll be home alone.
00:12:31
Speaker
So he'd go to the house, if a man was there or a company was there, another person was there, he would just kind of look around, look at the furniture and just, you know, I'm gonna have to think about it. I'll call you back. Hold on one second. I'm gonna throw a shout out here to anybody who does personal ads for anything. Don't go alone. Just don't go alone.
00:12:52
Speaker
I don't go anywhere alone. I don't even drive alone. I call you to make you talk to me. I know. Right. Just anybody like to be alone. No, no. Every time anybody's ever told me they were getting something off a Craigslist, I'm like, well, you want some company? And then I'm sitting here and I'm all like, yeah, what's sharp? So sorry, go ahead. These houses, if there was no man there, if there was no boy there or no man, nobody else, he would he would pull a knife on them, find them, rape them.
00:13:23
Speaker
And then he still ran him crap from their house on the way out. And he did this to about, like I said, it's reported around 50 known people. He was actually dubbed, he was called the classified ad rapist.
00:13:39
Speaker
That's not a cool name. Well, but it's still a name, like, why can it be a stupid guy? But it's not like a cool name. It's like, no, hey. Alright, so let me, let me just slap this on the newspaper. Classified ad rapist. In other words, if you're on the classified ads, ads, sorry. You're fine. Uh, watch out. Right? Correct.
00:14:05
Speaker
But that's that's it's not like the night stalker, you know what I mean like that Ramirez like that's the Golden State Killer like that's what pisses me off is when they give them these glorified names and It I know I don't I have writing but like you can't just be numb like douchebag number one douchebag number two yes, or why can't you pick their most unattractive feature and be like oh
00:14:28
Speaker
Pasty balding guy. Yeah, or like nice stalker. Hey janky teeth. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, so anyway snaggle tooth
00:14:42
Speaker
Sorry. So, um, so he, he was called the classified ad rapist. The thing was is in, when he moved to Florida, he had roommates and actually he tried to rape supposedly one of his roommates and she brought charges against him. Okay. Um, in 1981, he was, he was charged with rape. Um, and he requested a new trial cause he was convicted of rape. Right. What year? 1981.
00:15:10
Speaker
Okay, so DNA is not like really a factor at this point. I wasn't even born at this point. Oh man, neither was I. Oh, crazy. So he was convicted of rape, requested a new trial, won that trial, and his charges were dropped. Right. Well, it's always that man versus woman thing, like, you know, maybe she was scorned. But my point is, that was in 1981. 1981. 1981 to 1984, he raped 50 women.
00:15:40
Speaker
And none of them brought chargers? They didn't know who he was. It's not like he called them. Well, they reported them. Well, I'm sure they did, but they didn't have enough information. It's not like they could track me and have cell phones back then. Okay. Probably called for payphones too. I don't know what he did, but he got away with it. We did some stone tablets and sent it, right? Yeah. We mailed it to the cops. Not email, I'm talking like.
00:16:06
Speaker
Sorry. Anyways, he also got busted for writing a like a lewd letter and mailing it to a 12 year old girl. Okay. Game off. All right. So physically busted. No, they caught him. They brought, he, he, he got a game. No, no, no, let me tell you. All right. Yep. He got fine. 70 bucks. Hmm.
00:16:33
Speaker
OK, y'all, I'm just going to go ahead and say like trigger warnings, whatever. Anything that has to do with children, for me, is a trigger warning. OK, any child under the age of, I don't know, 37? John, ma'am, con. All right. I'm still a kid. He's 12. She was 12.
00:17:00
Speaker
Lude comments. Lude meaning inappropriate. Meaning he wrote her some kind of nasty pornographic letter and mailed it to her. And she opened it and read it. And then the cops are just like, oh, well, it's just a letter, right? Yeah. People are just like, oh, it's just a letter. He got a slap on the wrist and got $70.
00:17:22
Speaker
Words that I can't say but my point is both of these things were early on in his his history But she was 12 and they let him go if they of course they let him go Taking corrective actions then rape in general many people's lives would be different now
00:17:39
Speaker
Look, I saw something at one point. I don't know. It was some kind of a documentary and it was talking. They interviewed rapists. Okay. The majority of the people said that when we committed our crimes, we did it without a weapon. Do you know why they did it without a weapon? Because if they got busted, it's a worse offense. It's a worse offense. The rape itself. Oh, you can do a year or two. Just don't do it again, bud. Yeah.
00:18:09
Speaker
I hope you heard the slap. Okay. But that's all right. Just go. I'm getting mad. So in 1983, he moved to Tampa Bay while still on probation for his quote unquote assault.
Murder Spree in Tampa Bay
00:18:24
Speaker
You know what? Screw Tampa Bay. I frigging loved to vacation in Tampa Bay. And this that wasn't in Tampa Bay. I just now moved to Tampa Bay. It doesn't matter because that clearly something else is going to happen.
00:18:37
Speaker
You're really spiking here, so let's at least tone the vitriol down. I don't know how. So, in 1983 he moved to Tampa Bay, whilst on probation for assault. He raped and strangled a 20-year-old girl named Anna Wick, and this was the first time he got a taste for murder.
00:19:00
Speaker
So a taste for murder taste because it's all done real quick. Is that like a cited kind of thing where somebody actually wrote that?
00:19:14
Speaker
Um, no one wrote it. I've heard it said a couple times, but I mean, he went from raping multiple people in this classified ad scheme to. Well, I'm just I'm only saying that because like what a deplorable way to describe something. Yeah. Like I have a taste for pizza right now. And this guy has a taste.
00:19:38
Speaker
for strangling or taste of word. Choice, choice. Now taste is. And now you're throwing taste back out there. Sorry. It's a bad taste. It's in bad taste. All right. Fine. So that was a dumb point. That was a dumb point. Shut up. I thought you meant my taste comment. I was still on the taste. Oh, no. I was talking about his taste for strangling and murdering. All right. But over the next eight months, he is going to abduct rape and murder at least 10 women.
00:20:09
Speaker
in three different counties. In Tampa, Florida. While he is still on probation for assault, 10 people are going to die. Wait, probation? Yeah, he was on probation because of the lewd letter. So what does probation mean if he can still? Travel and go back there. Okay. It's not getting better. Say you're on probation, but please, by all means, go do whatever you want. All right. Yep.
00:20:38
Speaker
So he is, he targeted mainly vulnerable women, which includes women walking alone, women late at night, that type of stuff, which. Any woman alone is vulnerable at this point in time, clearly. And I'm not, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go through his victims real quick just because they're the important ones here. They need to mention for sure. The first one was Anne Wick, she was only 20 years old.
00:21:05
Speaker
And listen to that, I mean, it was only eight months, 10 people, but listen to how quick these are too. So on March 27th, 1984, which everything's in 1984, we don't get out of that. But on March 27th, he strangled her and left her in the woods. She wasn't found till nine months later. She's actually, Ann is forgotten about and not connected with him almost 90% of the time.
00:21:32
Speaker
just because she was the first one and it was so long before she was found that people don't mention her people don't talk about right then that was for that for that point in time there was no uh what what do they call it faith when there's a
00:21:47
Speaker
I know what you're trying to say, but now I can't say it. I know. Like an MO? Yeah, thank you. There you go. Yes, an MO. She was the first one, so. And she was just, she was reportedly hitchhiking from Indiana to Tampa. She was engaged to be married, just, um, start of her life. So she was the first. Um, the next one, which I apologize, I'm not even going to try to pronounce her, her real name, but she did go by Lana long. She was 19.
00:22:14
Speaker
She was killed May 13, 1984, so we did go from March to May there. She worked as an exotic dancer. She was walking home after work, and he offered her a ride home. She unfortunately took it, and he strangled her with a cord, which they know because it was left around her neck. Her body was left in the field.
00:22:40
Speaker
And there was a white scarf under her body just kind of placed there. Can I just I'm going to just intervene, interject something. We got 10 names to do here, bro. I understand. OK. OK. But they were like, we're going to call out her job. And they're like, she was an exotic dancer. Right. Like that. That mattered at all. But yeah, it's not. No, it's not that it's. Like, I don't care what you do for if you shovel manure. Yeah. OK. Like, it doesn't matter.
00:23:11
Speaker
And it's like I feel like when these crimes happen in certain places to certain people, they it's almost like the public and the media almost kind of displays it like it was their fault. Basically. Yeah, basically. And, you know, like you if had you not had that I'm sorry, they call it high risk job.
00:23:40
Speaker
Had you not had that high risk job, this wouldn't have happened. That's not true. They don't say that when police officers are injured in the line of duty and they have a high risk job. No, no, to them it's the shun profession. Yeah. But the, I mean, the fact is, is a woman can't even walk in a frigging parking lot. No, the last one, the last one, which I find, I don't find funny, but I find it ironic that the first analytic
00:24:07
Speaker
is not connected or mentioned that often because she was just an engaged 20-year-old who was hitchhiking, but the exotic dancer was really hard. Right, but then even when you think about a hitchhiker...
00:24:17
Speaker
Most, you know, they're like, oh, well, Hitchhikers, right? But that was back in the day. It was a lot more acceptable. But 84 is not back in the day. This is not the 60s and 70s where it was like peace, love and marijuana. I got you. All right. Keep going. So that was on May 13th, just 14 days later on May 27th.
00:24:41
Speaker
Michelle Denise Sims, who was 22, was killed. She was a former beauty contestant and she worked as a receptionist. She was found off the interstate naked and bound with her throat slit open. Her clothes were found folded next to her. And I, again, want to say that I feel like it's a little ironic that they have to throw in here. It was reported that she was also a prostitute and a drug user.
00:25:11
Speaker
Yeah. Why does that matter? Well, no, because there has to be a reason for something to happen to a woman. But it wasn't even proven. It's reported. They don't know that. They're just saying she was probably a prostitute and drug user. Irrelevant. It's a human life. OK, so we're not going back on the fates soapbox. All right. So on in May 1984, Linda Natal, who was 33,
00:25:40
Speaker
She answered an ad to sell some of her furniture. And he came over to her house in her own home while her children were present and raped her. He did leave her alive though. Oh, well. There's that. What a great guy. So she survived. Her husband had lots of things to say.
00:26:10
Speaker
Well, yeah. So in on today, Elizabeth Loudenbeck, who was twenty two, was killed. She was discovered fully clothed in an orange grove, but she had been raped and strangled. She was a factory worker and it was said that she was in the wrong place, wrong time. Well, yeah, because there was nothing negative. Hey, guys, guys, ladies, look, we're a moo moo. OK, just long trench coats.
00:26:39
Speaker
OK, don't expose any of yourself ever. And have like a not just stay at home, just stay home. Don't don't get on social media. Don't get on Facebook. Don't get on Craigslist. Don't get it. Don't get on anything. Just sit in your house forever. And if you die, then maybe possibly it won't be your fault. I see what you did there. All right.
00:27:09
Speaker
On October 7th, Vicki Marie Elliott disappeared after her waitressing shift at the Ramada Inn. She was 21 years old. Her body was found three months later and she had been strangled and left in a remote area as well. On October 7th, 1984, Chanel Devon Williams, they make a really big deal out of this one. She was a prostitute.
00:27:37
Speaker
They, she was the only woman of color that he chose. And she was also the only one to die of a gunshot wound. She was found naked with her clothes folded next to her in a remote area as well. No, I bet he pulled out the gun because she felt like hell. I bet, I hope she did. I hope so. Well, I mean, everybody else, you know, and then he's like, all right, well, I'm just going to shoot you then because you just went beast mode real quick.
00:28:07
Speaker
So Karen, Beth disin front was 28 and she was killed a week later on October 14th. She was found one week after Chanel in an orange growth. She'd been strangled and beaten to death. And she was also a prostitute. Kimberly, can I just say something real quick? When somebody says that somebody is beaten to death. Like, does anybody really stop and think about what that entails?
00:28:37
Speaker
Like, y'all, I hit a punching bag for five minutes and my arm hurts. It takes, it takes a lot of effort to, I mean, unless you, they didn't really say if she was hit with an object or a fist, but either way, that's a lot of- No, beating, beating two deaths. Like, huh. Kimberly Hayes, who- I'm hiding in my hoodie right now, I don't wanna hear anymore. Kimberly Kyle Hoops was 22 and she was killed October 31st.
00:29:05
Speaker
Her body was found on the side of a US highway. She was found nude, but due to her body being exposed to the elements, she was not even able to be identified. Too much time has passed to collect any kind of evidence. Virginia Lee Johnson was 18 and she was killed on November 6th. Her body was found in a vacant lot by Mobile Home Park. Just take a deep breath real quick, Lisa.
00:29:34
Speaker
She was found in this field with a leash around her neck, her body badly decomposed, but the autopsy revealed she'd been bound, raped, beaten, strangled, and dragged into dirt more than likely with the leash still connected to her neck. Oh, right. Like, like a bitch.
00:29:58
Speaker
You know swearing. It's not swearing like in general a bitch is a female dog and that's basically what he treated her like Yeah, don't tell me no swearing. I'm that's intentional Yes, he treated her like an animal So Kim Marie no no It's gonna get worse, so yeah, all right Kim Marie swan which was 21 was killed on November 11th. She was an exotic dancer and
00:30:24
Speaker
But she had turned her life around. She enrolled in a vocational school program for medical techs as her son was just a year old. I love how they said she turned her life around. Well, she'd gotten out of professional when she got pregnant and enrolled in school, but her body was found in a grassy area by the expressway strangled naked clothes beside her. Yeah, but because she was turning a life around like that makes it relevant. Whatever. She read it and done.
00:30:53
Speaker
I wanna stop with him for now. We're gonna take a break from him. No, I don't want, do we know what was his name? Bobby Joe Long. Was that his real name? His name was Robert Joe Long, but he went by Bobby. Did he get arrested at least? Yeah, we're gonna get there. All right, fine.
Nature vs. Nurture Discussion
00:31:10
Speaker
So we started this episode with all the excuses of why he was bad. His mom was abusive. He obviously did have, well, you can say, a lot of people say that he had an extreme hatred towards women
00:31:23
Speaker
Didn't like women out of his 10 victims. Two were known exotic dancers, five or six workers. There was one factory worker, a student, and one was an unknown vocation. Before I even go there, there were so many red flags that you threw up during the course of all of this, where somebody could have reached out, look, guys, you can have somebody committed. You can have them committed. But not like that. Like Faith, if you looked at me right now and said, dude, you're a nutbag.
00:31:54
Speaker
and then you called shut up you're not that ain't happening tonight okay but you call and you're like hey me I'm really worried about this person okay they're gonna come get the panty wagon exactly so why oh my okay maybe not every time guys but come on man
00:32:17
Speaker
Oh, somebody step up. I just don't. So he had all these reasons why he was the way he was. He hated women. His mom was a bad mom. He's all on his head, right? You know, I was spanked as a kid. I was spanked too. Like a lot. And look how good you turned out. That was...
00:32:40
Speaker
That was not, no. Okay. That's fine. Fine. I haven't killed anybody. Correct. Okay. But I'm fixing to tell you why your background doesn't matter. Cause it's, it's okay. I actually listened to a podcast the other day and
00:32:55
Speaker
When Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested, they do an interview with Jeffrey Dahmer. Oh, I hate that guy. I hate that guy, too. But he said when he did it, he said that his parents had nothing to do with it. They didn't treat him bad. Right. Nothing. They didn't matter, even though they weren't aware or they weren't that like into he chose to do that. He said, and it makes him mad when people try to justify their crimes. If you're going to do the crime, own up to basically paraphrase. But yes.
00:33:22
Speaker
Don't say we are even like, I mean, we even try to say like, well, I wonder why. Well, because any person who has a thought in their head and lets it fester. No matter what that thought is. Yeah. If you let that thought fester long enough. There's there's going to be an action.
00:33:45
Speaker
All right, so I'll move on to my second story.
Lisa McVay's Abduction and Survival
00:33:48
Speaker
You want to take my soapbox down? I've tried to kick it out from underneath your feet several times. You're a sturdy girl. I am not fat. Just twice. Oh, Lord. They're going to listen to us. We have three likes. We have to. Look anyway. OK, so I want to tell you about another story.
00:34:14
Speaker
Um, and I do want to give extreme trigger warnings for this. If you are sensitive to, um, any kind of abuse, sexual abuse, including that of a child, it'll be brief, but it'll be there. So you may want to skip ahead, just to warn you. Um, this is a story of, why do you have to bring up kids? Because it's, it's, it's just what happened. It's very brief on our childhood. So Lisa McVay,
00:34:43
Speaker
Um, she had it rough. Her mother struggled with both drug and alcohol addiction. Um, they were homeless. They lived on the streets. They lived in shelters. Um, by a young age, she remembers that her mom bringing different guys home all the time. Kind of like Bobby's did remember the differences that she was abused by some of the guys that her mom brought home.
00:35:14
Speaker
Ugh. Hey, parents, don't do that. So. Sorry, that was. She was in and out of foster homes because of this and because of homelessness. And finally, her grandmother, who lived in Florida, said, hey, you can come live with me. She's 13 years old. OK. So you think that's like a step up. You're not homeless anymore, your mom
00:35:43
Speaker
So she went to live with her grandmother and her grandmother's boyfriend. She was 13, 14. At around age 14, her grandmother told her that her boyfriend wanted her and let that happen. Don't, don't, don't just skip over that. All right. So grandma had a boyfriend. Now when I think grandma, I think shuffleboard, right? Like, like sweet Dana's.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah. Shuffle board. This is not a sweet nana. No, obviously. Okay. No, her boyfriend wanted a 13 year old girl and grandma's like, oh yeah, man, that's cool. She would actually watch sometimes while her boyfriend beat and raped her 14 year old friend. Stop now. Now. All right. As a human being, inject anybody who has any kind of a moral compass,
00:36:47
Speaker
No, she had one, but it was pointing in the wrong direction. Hers was broken. I got high pitched again, because I'm about to go there. OK? At least it's easier to edit what I know where the editing needs to happen. You can already tell by the tone of my voice. Faith. What? OK. I'm sorry. No. Time out. Why? Like, how is this shocking that
00:37:15
Speaker
Stuff like this goes on and you think she'll be normal. She'll be normal. She's not going to have issues. He's not going to have issues. Yeah. All right. Just go. Her only this went on for three years till she was 17 years old. She was he'd rape her at gunpoint. He beat her. She lived with him.
00:37:46
Speaker
It was an ongoing three years abuse. Her only escape was school and her job. She worked at a Krispy Kreme. Nice. In November, when she was 17. Oh, I'm sorry, real quick. For those of you like up north, Krispy Kreme is like Dunkin' Donuts. But the end, way better. It's fresh, dude.
00:38:11
Speaker
They're moist. I did that solely for people who don't like that word. We only have three viewers that are us. There's only two of us. I don't know. Maybe somebody is like, oh man, that is a good word. So on November 4th, she decided she was done. And that morning she woke up. She got her stuff together for school. She wrote out a suicide note.
00:38:39
Speaker
And she went to school? Nothing is worth that. Her life is just a series of abuse and neglect. I know, but life is like every experience of life is nothing more than a moment.
00:38:55
Speaker
Don't take your own life because you feel like there's no other way out. There's always a way. There's got to be a way. There will be references in the show notes if you are anyone who knows struggling ways that you can reach out. But she didn't have those. She was done. So she wrote her suicide note that morning and decided to spend her last day with her escape. She went to school all day. Then she went to her her late shift at Krispy Kreme. OK.
00:39:25
Speaker
She got off at two o'clock in the morning and she got on her bike because she loved riding her bike. And a co-worker said, hey, let me give you a ride home. But she knew she was going home to kill herself. This was her last bike ride. Oh my goodness. This was her last moonlight. This was the last time when it was going to be in her hair. So she declined it and said, no, I'm good. I'm going to go. So she got on her bike and she's riding home.
00:39:50
Speaker
and she passes this church that she passes every time her shifts over and there's a random car parked in the church at two o'clock in the morning, right? Yes. So she's looking at this car and all of a sudden she is rushed from behind and attacked and blindfolded and put into a car. You're kidding me. No. Um,
00:40:18
Speaker
So she's contemplating suicide and then just got kidnapped. Correct. Man. So she's, she's putting this car and she's blindfolded and she is, while she's being abducted, she said that she's sitting there and she said that here I was thinking about killing myself and now I'm gonna be fighting for my life.
00:40:44
Speaker
She decided at this point she is going to do anything she can do to stay alive. Sorry, parts of this really get me. So anyway. Sorry, I can't say much because I'm very enthralled. So this girl, 17 years old, she has lived a life of abuse and neglect and just decides it ain't happening tonight. So she's blindfolded. She's in the backseat of this car. She went beast mode. No.
00:41:15
Speaker
Um, she starts like trying to see, like kind of move her face around, like, you know, make facial expressions to move this blindfold. Right. And she moves it enough to where she can see like the carpet and it's this weird, like red shag carpet, like you'd see in a house, almost like it was distinctively different. So red shag carpet. This girl blindfolded and bound, found a way to get her hands
00:41:42
Speaker
And I apologize because this is all graphic, but this is the link she went to because she decided if she was going to die, he wasn't going to be free. She pulled her tampon out and shoved it in the seat so that she left evidence behind in his car because her blood was on it. Oh, then she starts running her hands through her hair and leaving hair everywhere.
00:42:08
Speaker
That way, you can't say she wasn't in the car! Oh! Okay, look! It's seventeen! Guys! Oh! She's like, you know what? If I'm going down, so are you. Yeah! So are you, you trashy boy! So are you!
00:42:27
Speaker
So he pulls over and gets her out of the car, and he starts leading her up steps. This chick is counting the steps she's taking up the stairs, so she gets to how many steps? Man. So he takes her into his apartment, and for the next 26 hours, he rapes her. Naturally. Naturally. Because he's an absolute piece of crap. Yeah.
00:42:54
Speaker
You have to remember, this is not her first time. Is this the same dude that we were talking about earlier? This was the story. I don't want to. I want to know. So she knew from her grandmother's boyfriend that if you fought back. It's worse. You get beaten worse. So she stayed dead calm. Listen to what this chick does too. All right.
00:43:21
Speaker
Um, she said at one point, like he's, he's raped her. He brings her to the bathroom. What was her name again? Lisa McVeigh. I want to, I want to speak that over the mic right now and say Lisa McVeigh. You are baller. Oh gosh. No. Oh, she gets better. Hold on. All right. All right. I'm sorry. We'll, we'll do it again. Lisa McVeigh. Yeah. Um, so.
00:43:43
Speaker
She said that, so he bathed her and he's brushing her hair. And she says, it's almost like he's trying to- What? No, don't- We're not done. Oh, what do you mean he bathed her and he brushed her hair. So she said it was almost like he was trying to act like they're in a relationship. And- Oh, how long have you been married?
00:44:04
Speaker
He doesn't listen, so it's okay that I don't know, like 13, 14 years. Okay, how often has he bathed you and brushed your hand? Never! Like a baby doll? Like you're a freaking toddler! So... Ugh! Weird, okay, uh, flag, whatever. Well, all the her experience from her childhood, she's able to remain calm and rational after already being raped however many times, and she asks them, why are you doing this to me?
00:44:32
Speaker
And so he goes on to tell her that he hates women. He just got through a bad breakup. And she just keeps him talking. She's calm. She's non-emotional. And she gets him to talk about his problem with women. She gets him to open up. She shows sympathy for him. And she even says, you know, well, let me be your girlfriend.
00:44:55
Speaker
I can be your girlfriend. We don't have to tell anybody about how this happened. Survival of the fittest. And she says, you know, hey, I am the sole caretaker of my ill father. So I have to be able to go back to him to take care of him or he will die. There's no one else to take care of him. All right. So now we're playing on emotion, right? I know.
00:45:16
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. We're playing on emotions. We're like, dude, I can be everything that you want me to be. But you also need to let me be who I am. Yeah, so she's calm. She's collected. Smart. She still has the blindfold on. He hasn't taken it off of her. And she says, I've got to go to the bathroom. I've got to pee. And I'm not peeing with you in here. So she makes him leave. She does not take the blindfold off because she doesn't know if he's like,
00:45:45
Speaker
peeking in watching right so she stays compliant but this chick while she's supposed to be in the bathroom touches everything underneath the countertop leaving fingerprints no windows the leaving fingerprints she told every surface she can find
00:46:03
Speaker
That way it proves she was in the house, that her story is real. Look guys, I'm just gonna say it. She is going through a storm right now. And through that storm, she is so attentive to what is happening right now, that suicide was never even an option.
00:46:22
Speaker
Because now life, life means so much more. And even through all this, she's leaving proof that she was there. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, attentive. And she was so just cognitive of her surroundings. She was even smart enough that because she had the blindfold on, she tried to act like the girlfriend. So she would touch his face and touch his hair so she could describe he had short hair. He had small ears. Oh my.
00:46:52
Speaker
Brilliant 17 dude. Oh, what was her name? Lisa McVey Lisa McVey shout the heck out. So He put her in bed in this That's beside him, right? She's laying there blindfold on she hears him snoring. She doesn't know if he's faking it. She just lays there Okay, he continues to rape her. He does sodomize her once but uh the next morning
00:47:14
Speaker
She has stayed calm and collective this whole time, but all of a sudden he's got the news on and she hears the reports of everyone searching for her. Of course. She's lied about her name. Media, you piece of garbage. She's lied about her name. She said that I believe she said her name was Karen. OK. So at this point, it's it's either it's everything's too much art all sinks in what she's lived through and she freaks out. She's crying, she's upset and he
00:47:44
Speaker
tells her, you need to stop, don't make me kill you, I don't wanna kill you, stop. And so she comes down. Well, she's playing on his emotions for so long. And he asks her, she's 17, he asked, what am I gonna do with you? What am I gonna do with you? And she said, that's when she realized he's asking me what to do. He's asking me for a plan.
00:48:07
Speaker
So she said, you know what? I'll be your girlfriend. Just let me go. I'll be your girlfriend. We won't tell you, but we'll make up a meet cute story. I'll be your girlfriend. So he starts pacing and puts her in the car. Puts her back in the car.
00:48:23
Speaker
So they're driving, they drive for a few minutes. She again counts the steps to make sure the steps are on. She's got the blindfold loosened when she gets back in the car. So she can see a glimpse of the word magnum on the dashboard. She just found everything away. A few minutes after he leaves his apartment. She's brilliant. They go to an ATM. She can hear the money.
00:48:47
Speaker
He asks for her dress, she gives him a false address. He gets there and he realizes it's a false address. And he's mad at her and upset with her. And she looks at him and just calm as collected can be says, why don't you just let me get out here? Just let me go. And he said, okay. Wow. He gets out, he hugs her. Oh my goodness. He tells her to leave the blindfold on for five minutes.
00:49:17
Speaker
And then he leaves. And this is her statement. And I'm sorry, because I know I'm going to get a little choked up. But she said, these are all in quotes. He drove off. I pulled my blindfold down. And the first thing I saw was this gorgeous, beautiful oak tree. That's the moment I knew my life was about to change for the good. I saw the branches of new life. So she made it. She goes home, runs home. She's beaten on the door, beaten on the door.
00:49:49
Speaker
Her grandmother's boyfriend answers. And he continues for the next five hours to beat her, rape her and tell her she cheated on him.
McVay's Role in Capturing Long
00:50:07
Speaker
All right. Wait before you because I'm about to set you off again. While this is going on and the grandmother knows this is going on, she calls the police stating- Wait, the grandma? The grandmother calls the police and said that she's back home. Oh, so they filed a missing person report? That's why she was on the report. The grandmother- Oh my God. They found her bike on the side of the road. They tracked it down. The people that worked with her knew the bike.
00:50:32
Speaker
So the grandmother calls the police station and says she's home. We found her. You can call off the search. She's making up a stupid story about being kidnapped. Everything's fine. Don't worry about it. Wow. Okay. And the police say, you know what? She's a minor. So we're, we're going to have to bring her in the car. Praise God. Nope. Nope. I'm not there yet. So she goes to the police station and she sits down. Um,
00:51:00
Speaker
at the Hillsborough County Police Station. And she tells this lady, this officer, everything that she went through, she recounted everything that happened to her, the whole 26 hours, the steps, everything. The female detective interrogating her made her retell her story over and over because she did not believe her.
00:51:25
Speaker
The female officer. No, no. Game off. Game off. All right. Can we just backtrack for like a second? Sure. Does the first story have anything to do with the second? No, just listen. No. OK, but like, no, I need to know like a female officer that's sitting here listening to this story. Oh, no, you're fixing to like what happens.
00:51:55
Speaker
All right. She said that she was too calm for what she say and she lived through. She thought she was lying. So she asks her to repeat her story again. Lisa gets mad and says, no, I'm not talking to you anymore. Bring me someone in here who is intelligent. Lisa, we share the same name and it's bravery. Yes. So, uh, enter detective Larry Pinkerton from the SVU Hillsborough
00:52:24
Speaker
Thank you, Detective Larry. He believed her and she realized she finally had someone that believed her. So the first time in her 17 years, she told him everything. Wow. All the grandmother's boyfriends, abuse, free years, everything.
00:52:52
Speaker
And he helps her get into a group home for runaways, arrests the grandma's boyfriend. Thank you. Larry Gingrich is awesome. Was it castrated? I don't, they don't do that. Well, they can do it chemically. They don't do that. No, they're not castrated. No, right, fine. But so he listens to her and he helps her get in a group home, but he doesn't just leave her there. Like he checks up on her.
00:53:19
Speaker
While she is in this group home, she's decompressing and just, you know, she just lives through two days of absolute hell. More than two days, man. Her whole life has been like freaking hell. Correct. And she's watching TV because that's what teenagers do. They veg out and watch TV. And a new special comes out. I'm not a teenager. I sort of kind of do that. I did do that though. She's watching a news story about all these murders that are going on in the surrounding county.
00:53:49
Speaker
Mmm, and she's listening to it, and it's talking about how there's this red fiber on all the murder victims And she calls to take to Pinkerton. She said that she's still 17. She's still 17. Oh This was a few days after she got after she got free. She calls to take to Pinkerton She said the guy that's killing all these women says the guy that took me. It's the same guy. No, uh No, so
00:54:14
Speaker
the police are already working on a- Look at how freaking proactive this 17 year old was. So they're already looking because the only vehicle that had the word Magnum on it that she saw is, it's like, I believe it was a 1978 Dodge Magnum. Yes, yes. So she already went down to one car, one year, one make, one model. Okay. She can also say,
00:54:42
Speaker
We went to an A-Team around this time. So they subpoenaed the bank and they matched the people who were there at like 3 a.m. whatever time to the Dodge Rams and their Rams, sorry, Dodge Magnums. Thank you. Went back to work there for a second in my head. That's all right. And there's one.
00:55:04
Speaker
Bobby Joe Long. There you go. There you freaking go. And here's this girl and she's all like, hey, man, you remember that story that everyone said was made up? I got some information for you because she never the red shag carpet wireless. I know the thing.
00:55:20
Speaker
She shed her whole body in that car. And the thing tying all those of them together earlier was there these random red cybers on all of their clothes they were folded up next to. Wait, we're talking about the first part. Yes. Jimmy Crockett.
00:55:38
Speaker
They take a picture, they surveil him, they look in his car with the red shite carpet. It's a custom carpet. It's almost like he like stapled it in, because it's not a carpet you see in cars. No, because he's like, man, if I'm ever going to get caught, I'm going to just do this my way. So they bring her five pictures. And she said, that's him. And she identified Robert Boggajit along.
00:56:01
Speaker
Now, from the time she was released to the time she identified him was 12 days. Right. In those 12 days, Virginia Lee Johnson and Kimberly Marie Swann were killed. Oh my God. All right. So she was technically- No, in a nutshell, nobody followed up on anything. Well, he was, in the beginning, in the beginning of his murder spree, I mean, hey, he got away with a classified rape.
00:56:31
Speaker
Classified ad breaks for years, right? No one looked at him. No one I mean, he got away with that people saw but even his wife should have thrown a flag man Hey foul on the field dude's weird, but he's moved He got away with six He got away with seven murders before he got to Lisa let her go and then murder two more people in 12 days But she she called them and said hey, that's him
00:57:01
Speaker
So they red shag carpets there, her hair still in the back of his car. When they went to his apartment, they did them all our fingerprints. And when they arrested him, he admitted to McVeigh, but he denied everything else. However, it didn't take too long for him to confess everything.
00:57:22
Speaker
So he pled guilty to eight out of the 10 known murders because the other two hadn't been tagged to him. I mean, he really went with the murders, the way he dumped their bodies, they weren't found for months later. So by that time, there was no evidence beside these red, these red fibers. If she hadn't lived, no one would have ever been able to put all that together.
00:57:47
Speaker
It's an innocuous little thing. So basically what we have right here in Lisa McVay is a hero. Oh, yeah, we're not we're not done with Lisa McVay. I don't want to be done with Lisa McVay because I just want to simply say. That was so.
00:58:08
Speaker
Freakin genius oh, and I'm gonna rip out sweet friggin screw the temple. I don't care for them all my period I know that's what I'm saying No Like it's not what you would know it's simply the fact that her instinct and that very moment said that
00:58:35
Speaker
Fight or flight. And she said fight. Yeah. At this moment in the back of the car, she's like, I'm going to fight this guy every single inch of the way. OK. Even though she was passive in some of the story that she told in the experiences that she went through.
00:58:56
Speaker
She wasn't she wasn't that she would she wasn't passive She was aggressive and say she was manipulative and Oh my god, brilliant Yeah, she actually said that one bad situation got me into another bad situation, which is what saved my life Exactly remember she was going to kill herself I know and I'm telling you ma'am like that was I'm sorry. That's a god thing. Yeah, so I
00:59:24
Speaker
He pled guilty to aliens. I'm sorry. No, let me just reverb that because not a God thing that she was abducted. No, good. But it was a God thing that he intervened in her life right then and said, no, no, you're not going to die tonight by his hand. You're not going to die tonight by your hand. Oh, no, she's hurt. She's still alive today. I know. Well, I assumed you don't really know, but he received 28 life sentences.
00:59:53
Speaker
And he was for rape, kidnapping, and murder. He was also sentenced to death for the murder of Michelle Simmons. McVeigh sat in the front row at his execution by lethal injection. Oh my god, he's really dead? He's dead. She sat in the front row and she says all she wanted to do was him to look her in the eyes as he's died and he wouldn't even open his eyes. He denied her that. She probably sat there like both barrel middle fingers like
01:00:24
Speaker
Reap what you sow, bro. Yep. She said that according to the Tampa Bay Times, she gave an emotional statement outside the prison declaring that she attended his execution on behalf of the 10 victims who clicked. She also stated, I vow to carry on and be their voice. So at this point, she goes to live with her aunt and uncle, who are wonderful. Oh, her aunt and uncle. Her aunt and uncle, she says first time she was ever loved and she ever felt safe. All right, get him off.
01:00:54
Speaker
Gay both. Fathers or moms? Brothers, sisters. It didn't say. All I got was gay and uncle. Cause I'm only wondering cause she went to live with her grandparents who are corrupt and like socio. Just the grandmother, yeah. Well 1994, Kat McVeigh began working at the Hillsborough County Parks and Recreation Department. And she reported a breaking of the office. The deputy that came to the scene said, you've got the attitude to be a cop. You ever thought about that?
01:01:24
Speaker
No way. So 1999, she was transferred to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, the same office that she went and reported her rape to. And she started working as a dispatcher. She became a reserve deputy. She put herself through the police academy and was deputized in 2004. Sorry. You go girl. She works in the same department that found an arrest for her capture. And she works in the SVU.
01:01:53
Speaker
and works to protect children. She's also a middle school resource officer. And she uses her story to tell them how to handle dangerous situations. And they say she is like a fierce mama bear about those kids. She teaches them it's your body. You don't even touch it. If someone does, you tell. You tell me. So she works in SVU and she works at the middle school.
01:02:17
Speaker
as a resource officer with kids every day. And I think I found one quote of hers. Sorry, I got a little. It's like she literally like just flung up the middle finger at life and was like, not today, bitch. Oh, like she teaches a morning signs and red flags on predators.
01:02:44
Speaker
And she says if it was not for what happened to her, she would have killed herself, but she made her mess her message. Which is the, I don't know why that gets me every time I hear that.
01:02:54
Speaker
Her mess of a life, she made into a message to keep kids and those around her safe. And that's what she does now, to this day. In this view at the Hillsborough County, where an officer told her, I don't believe you, I don't believe you, I don't believe you, say it again, say it again. And she said- And a woman, that's what pisses me off as a fricking woman. And she worked her butt off to get to where she could help people and kids. And that's what she does right now. She's a grandmother, she's married.
01:03:21
Speaker
She's outspoken, she's an advocate. You can find her on freaking Facebook. Do you remember the first conversation that we had in the last episode where we were talking about like how people try to wrap their heads around what a person could do to another person? Yeah. I feel like that is where the cops kind of
01:03:52
Speaker
gray out, like gray area out, because it's like, I've heard this story and it doesn't seem plausible, right? And it's, but it's because a normal life-loving, good childhood, good everything, good, good, good, cannot seriously fathom
01:04:22
Speaker
or wrap their head around something like this happening to another person. But I mean, while their stories intertwine, which is why I was having a hard time kind of, because I didn't want you to know it was the same one you kept asking and spoiling, although spoiler alert, if anyone knew the story, I mean, as soon as I said Bobby Joe, as soon as I said story to him with the McVay, everyone know, oh, that's the chick that took him down. You didn't. I was trying to keep it separate. You spoiled.
01:04:48
Speaker
Sorry. But look at their, look at their, besides the head trauma, they both had neglectful mothers who had men in and out of their bed who were not there for them. She was actually known to be abused as a child. Yes. So look at both of their lives. Yep. They actually crossed as he's the, he's the perpetrator and look at her.
01:05:12
Speaker
And this goes back to that whole nature versus nurture crap. They both get any nurturing. That's what I'm saying. So is it nature? No, I think it's what you are willing to. Guys, you don't have to agree with me. You're not going to probably.
01:05:33
Speaker
But it's what you feed yourself. Yeah. It's like you said the other day when you called me. You just said nobody would agree. And then you agree. I thought you were going to say some awful comment I was going to have to edit out. I wanted to be worse. But you know, you called me the other day and you said, you know, it's because it's we were talking about how the Bible says take every thought captive. And you said, you know, when people think these things and da, da, da.
01:05:56
Speaker
And he didn't, he just did whatever he wanted. He had no impulse control. Actually, they talked about when he wrecked his motorcycle and he got in the coma, that he was known to be a bad driver. He got seven tickets in one day, one time. Yeah. You have to work hard to get seven traffic violations in one day. All right, so here's my thing. First of all, all these people saw a difference in this man. Yeah. They saw the violent tendencies coming upon him.
01:06:26
Speaker
Correct. Okay. Not one person. We don't know that. I do not know. I didn't do an extensive look into his ex-wife because I really wanted to make sure to have time to get Lisa McVay's full. Yeah, because the victims. Just awesomeness. Well, the victims are what counts. Yeah. But what I'm simply saying is, is like,
01:06:51
Speaker
You can't tell me that not one person noticed a difference in this guy's normalcy. Well, not only that, this girl was abused her whole life. She was 17 and just finally said, I'm done. I don't want to hurt anymore. I don't want to be abused anymore. I'm going to kill myself. And she went to school and she went to work. And you can't tell me, even if she was a loner,
01:07:13
Speaker
You can't tell me that nobody noticed something wasn't right with her and nobody, like, nobody reported it. That's why, like, COVID hit. I think it's because... I'm worried about the kids. No. Well, no. I think people are so... Self-absorbed. Thank you. That is exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. It's my problem, so it affects me.
01:07:35
Speaker
You know, I was listening to one podcast on the story because I listened to quite a few, like I told you. But it was actually a wife of crime. And they were talking about how, because Russ was like, it's a husband-wife, they're awesome, you should check them out. But they were talking about how she, because he couldn't believe like she plans to kill herself, but she goes to work.
01:07:56
Speaker
And no, because she's going somewhere that brings her joy. But, you know, but it was either here his wife said, just said, you know, you don't know that people are struggling. Like, that's why when you go to Starbucks or you go to a fast food place or even a sit down restaurant and the waiter might be sniffing with you or something, give him some grace. Like, yeah, just because it, you know, someone's you don't know what people are going through. This girl's about to go home and in her life because she's had
01:08:25
Speaker
years of visit being beaten and raped. And she works at the Krispy Kreme and she rides a bicycle there and no one knows what's going on with her life. No. And yet if she messed up somebody's coffee in today's world, they're going to sit there and ring her out. Yeah. And you did. You just don't know me and you don't know what people are going through. You know, there's there's no common courtesy at all. No, it's me, me, me, I. Yes, the Burger King effect. Your dad said that. Yeah.
01:08:54
Speaker
I want it my way. Yeah. No, he says the fake Burger King, you can't have it your way. Um, sorry, but you know, but, but just, I just find it like number one, it's one big long story because it's interconnecting. But the fact is that they had such similar upbringings and then he had to be put to death from lethal injection for
01:09:17
Speaker
Murdering and raping this many women and he he wasn't even charged for the classified route. Yeah, but what what differentiates Her from him they both had similar upbringings and this girl said I want to take my life and He said I want to end everybody else's I Don't and it has to be in your mind in your mind. You said I
01:09:45
Speaker
I hurt so everyone around me is hurt. Thank you. Misery loves company. My dad always said anytime people hurt, my feelings hurting people hurt other, hurting people hurt people. I tell my kindergarten that all the time when she's like, well, so-and-so was mean to me. I'm like, well, baby hurting people hurt people. You know, we know that her parents are going through a divorce. She's hurting right now. So she's lashing out because she wants, and you know, my child doesn't understand that, but I'm trying to teach her now. Like when people are mean to you or people are rude,
01:10:14
Speaker
It's probably because there's something inside them that they're being hurt. Exactly. It's that mindset. It's that mindset. He sat there over and over again and said, I want to victimize the people that hurt me. She said. I'm done being victimized. Yeah. And I'm I'm going to do it myself.
01:10:39
Speaker
And when someone else tried to victimize her she said not today Satan yeah and Decided she was gonna fight like hell and she did and this is not the difference between a guy and a girl it's literally the difference between a mindset and what you're willing to believe and She believed That you know what I may have tried to kill myself tonight But it's not gonna be by your hand. No, it's gonna be my mind
01:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. And so from that moment on, she wasn't a victim. Don't know. She was a survivor. She was a bad A. I know. That's what I'm saying, man. She was a beast. She was like, you know what?
01:11:24
Speaker
I'm going to shed some hair, all right? I'm going to touch every f-ing thing. Oh my gosh. They actually, they've got it. It's not on Netflix anymore in the United States. It is on Netflix, I believe they said it in like UK, but it's called Believe Me, the Lisa McVeigh story. And they said like, it is, all their views are, it's brutal.
01:11:46
Speaker
I think even at one point, didn't she lift up the toilet seat and place all her fingerprints under that? They didn't say every service, but they said anything that she thought he couldn't wipe down or clean easily. She was trying to find crevices where they could prove she was there. In his car, in his home, she was there. They can't say because if you remember, if you were going back to an hour ago when we started,
01:12:12
Speaker
He got off. He got a slap on the wrist on two assault charges because it was his word versus her word. Yeah. This girl wasn't gonna leave it to that. Like, she's leaving. Like, you can't say I wasn't there. You can't say, well, I'd probably look like someone else. My fingerprints are under your sink, dude. Dude, my tampon is in your seat. Oh my goodness. Sorry, I said tampon. And the Netflix stopped it.
01:12:39
Speaker
documentary it was something like she she had a cut on her head and she she took the blood I mean they they weren't gonna dramatize that part right but they say it's pretty close to her story and someone someone's like it wasn't overly dramatized it was pretty true to fact well you don't have to dramatize her story much like it's a freaking Lifetime movie yeah and she was amazing I want to meet her I dude that would be all I I just want to talk to her just yeah no I don't want to talk to her I just want to shake her hand
01:13:08
Speaker
Give her a nod. I want my kid to go and that nod needs to convey Your bees she should get some kind of like special salute or so. I mean she's awesome So, oh my god, do you know and I'm gonna tell you what all the victims that had to suffer by his hand That is not like any kind of
01:13:34
Speaker
diss to any of them because you know what dude you don't know how you're gonna react in any moment at any point especially if somebody's like hey if you don't say anything you don't do it I won't kill you but you don't know what happened you don't know what happened you don't know if they fought back you don't know anything because
01:13:51
Speaker
They're dead. And their bodies were found weeks or months later, so there's no evidence. You know, they were strangled. She was smart enough to use the dad card because he hated women. And when he released her on the side of the road there by that oak tree, he gave her a hug and said, something to the effect of this is for your dad. I'm letting you go so you can take care of your dad. Like it got to him on some level. Right.
01:14:21
Speaker
But that's the part, that's the part of like that psychology that I will never understand. And no matter how many times anybody tries to justify somebody's behavior, you'll never really get the full glimpse of what they're thinking. No. You know what I mean? Whether it's
01:14:46
Speaker
this guy or Ted Bundy or anybody like you don't know. No, they can't. Like, I mean, we'll never be able to understand it. But I think that's that's what trials go the way they go. It's because you need to have, you know, you need to have a firm and logical explanation for why somebody would do this. And there's sometimes not one. No.
01:15:15
Speaker
And it's also, you've got 12 people on a jury who all have their own mind and all think the way they want to think. And all you have to do is have reasonable doubt. All you have to do is have a good enough argument. I can argue good enough with anybody about anything. Ask my coworkers. I argue with myself. I go into my- You argue with it. Anything. I don't. Hey, there's a lawnmower.
01:15:37
Speaker
I'm literally going to a girl's office I work with, and I'm like, hey, should we do this way? And she's like, yeah, that sounds good. And I'm like, but if you think about it, this way. And I'll seriously sit there and argue both sides. And she just looks at me and she's like, just pick one, Faith. Just pick one. They're both your ideas. Just pick one. And I'm like, oh, I can see both sides here. And I get that. I get the justice system. I get everything. I do. And this was back in the beginning of the 80s, but
01:16:05
Speaker
There really has to be a... If you're caught, there should be... I mean, he was on probation when he started killing. Now, yes, his killing spree was fast and dirty. Yeah.
Critique of the Probation System
01:16:18
Speaker
It was 10 people in an eight-month period. Yeah. But he was on probation. Did he not have to, like, check in with a probation officer? That's what I was saying earlier. It's like... There were so many red flags. Yes. And you know what?
01:16:35
Speaker
Quite frankly, I'm not gonna say it's everybody else's responsibility too because good lord those probation officers. How many people do they have? I mean, how many screwed up people in this world? And plus, we got, you know, if you get caught with a joint in some states, you gotta go to jail and take urine samples and drug tests for the probation officer. You got all these petty crimes that honestly, I mean, yes, all crime is bad.
01:17:03
Speaker
But if you steal something, I feel like you shouldn't have to be watched as much as if they were sexual. Well, all right, no, here's the deal. Here's the deal. All right, I'm gonna say this. Oh, Lord. You might have to edit. Pause for a minute so it's easier for me to edit, and let's not talk over each other. We don't go. All right, so I'm gonna say it. All right. So we send people to jail for crimes. All crimes, yeah. In the jail, they get fed. Mm-hmm. They have entertainment. Mm-hmm.
01:17:32
Speaker
They have free time. They can lift weights. They can basically, you know, if you're going to live in a dorm, in a college, you have the same freedom. Not only that, they get to network with other criminals to learn how to do it. Right, right. But what I'm saying is, how can you seriously take a look at somebody and say, all right, all right, fine, he was on parole, but he did a little bit of time and he's real. He got a $70 fine in probation, that was it.
01:18:00
Speaker
But what I'm saying is, you can't rehabilitate somebody that way. You can't. It's not feasible. No. I mean, I don't have a good solution. You're not supposed to bring up a problem. And you're all like, oh, he was on parole. What does that even mean? Obviously nothing. I did good just then. You did do good. Thank you. I'm trying to work on her swearing Lisa, this Lisa, not the great Lisa in the story, but this, you know,
01:18:28
Speaker
Okay, this okay Lisa You couldn't see it but there were some fingers flying there was and she wanted to say wordy-dearns, but she can't cuz I've tried to be in there Oh my goodness, but But you know anyways, so that's my story stories Hmm He should get well he's dead he is dead yay
01:18:57
Speaker
Well,
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:18:58
Speaker
um, I know that most of you probably knew where the story was going. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you at least enjoyed Lisa's reactions to it. And, uh, anyway, that was all. Thanks for listening to Twisted Tales. If you have comments or suggestions or you have a story you want us to discuss, please send to twistedtalestruecrimeatgmail.com.
01:19:20
Speaker
and leave us five star likes because soon, hopefully by the time you listen to this, we'll be on podcasts like Spotify or Apple and not just our hosting site, but whatever. Hope you guys enjoyed and we will see you next week. Just like it. Yeah, like it a lot. So it's not just us. Have a good week.