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Episode 31 - Dealing with Lonliness (w/ DIYHuntress Dr. Sam Raimondi)
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Have you ever felt feelings of lonliness and/or isolation as a creative? We spend so many hours alone typically because that is how we make things and have the quiet head space to create. Moreover, many people in our lives may not understand WHAT or WHY we do this. How much alone time is optimal vs. too much? What do you do when feeling of lonliness creep in?
Today we have an amazing conversation with Maker/Woodworker/Content Creator and PYSCHOLOGIST Dr. Sam Raimondi (DIYHuntress) on this topic. We all share our experiences on this topic and importantly, share how we alleviate these feelings to emerge inspired with a deep sense of well-being.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction and Mystery Guest
00:00:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, hello maker community. This is our second take of the night and because the first one, because Eric fucked up the first one.
00:00:19
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Listen.
00:00:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I didn't fuck anything up.
00:00:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is, this is Woodworking is Bullshit. Your favorite podcast about creativity, art, design, philosophy. We are here with our normal crew.
00:00:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm your host, Paul Jasper, Woodworker by Day, Scientist by Night. I totally reversed that. I'm a Scientist by Day, Woodworker by Night. because Eric threw me off. And I'm here with my co-host, Eric Curtis, fine furniture maker and content creator.
00:00:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh gosh.
00:00:50
YYEEEeeeeeRik
We're off to a phenomenal second start, crushing the game.
00:00:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, that was...
00:00:54
Sam
This is gonna be the best night ever, I'm just saying.
00:00:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, that's great, Eric. That's great. Oh,
Community and Friendship in Creativity
00:00:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you probably just heard a new voice, but before we tell you who the secret voice is, we're going to do what we normally do, which is to introduce today's question, today's topic. So as I was thinking about how to introduce this, I thought of a negative way to say it, and I thought of a positive way to say it, and I think, I started with a negative way, and then Eric's like, hey, why you gotta be so negative all the time?
00:01:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Why don't you be like, why don't you like be a little miss my little pony sunshine, and put it in a positive way? So I have an abundance way.
00:01:28
YYEEEeeeeeRik
My little Polly was right there, by the way. I don't understand.
00:01:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
My little, poe yeah. All right, so I have two ways to introduce today's topic. So we're gonna start with the abundance mindset positive way. Ready? The importance of community and friendship for creative people.
00:01:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:01:44
Sam
i i want love I want to say I love that, but like we can do better.
00:01:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then there's the way.
00:01:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Wow.
00:01:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. So maybe, ah so so maybe our mystery guest is more of a scarcity mindset like myself, which was how to avoid loneliness and isolation as a maker.
00:01:58
Sam
Yes, that's the one.
00:01:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
but
00:02:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, you guys are just clickbaity bitches.
00:02:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, well,
Special Guest: Sam from DIY Huntress
00:02:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you keep hearing the secret voice, but before we get into the deep reveals of whether it's the importance of community and friendship for creatives or how to avoid loneliness and isolation as a maker, which I think either way you slice it, it's an important topic and I'm glad we're talking about it tonight. We have a special guest who's gonna help us. Eric, why don't you tell us who this is?
00:02:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, this person... is, and I'm not just saying that because they're on the call, one of my favorite human beings on the planet, ah maybe, maybe, maybe one of my older, like top three oldest friends on social media, for sure, um and has become a dear, dear friend, IRL in the meat space.
00:02:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Aw. ah
00:02:34
Sam
I paid him to say that.
00:02:47
YYEEEeeeeeRik
over the years. so ah We have collabed together multiple times. I once broke her spirit and trying to get her to cut hand cut dovetails, which she will refuse to do for the rest of her existence on this ah big blue ball.
00:02:58
Sam
That was five years, five or six years ago and I'm still not over it.
00:02:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Way to go, Eric. Way to go, Eric.
00:03:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Still traumatized about it.
00:03:02
Sam
Yeah.
00:03:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Also, one of the most emotionally intelligent people that I know, and ah when I'm having a hard time, one of the people that I text and be like, hey, am I a crazy bitch or what's going on here?
00:03:19
Sam
My answer is usually we just need to take a shot.
00:03:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:03:21
Sam
That's about it.
00:03:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That is usually, so she's also an enabler, you should know that about her. It's of course Sam from DIY Huntress.
00:03:27
Sam
It's me. Oh my God.
00:03:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hi sam
00:03:29
Sam
Everyone buckle up. That's all I got to say.
00:03:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So Sam, ah before we dive into the psychological aspects, because hey, just so in case anybody on the internet doesn't know, Sam is a PhD in psychology.
00:03:47
Sam
Mm-hmm, sure am.
00:03:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And I don't know why she doesn't tell people that.
00:03:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hi,
00:03:51
YYEEEeeeeeRik
She literally just decided on the pre-call to change her email sign off to include the PhD, which I don't understand because as the only person without a PhD on this call, I would literally introduce myself to every person being like, hi, Eric Curtis, PhD.
00:03:51
Sam
I don't know.
00:03:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sam.
00:04:06
Sam
Can I tell you what? Can I tell you? This is, okay.
00:04:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I am Dr. Eric Curtis.
00:04:11
Sam
close. Okay, so two things. One, I guess I never include it because i I just feel like in content creation creator world, like it's weird for me to like, I don't have a PhD in content creation. So I feel like maybe that's why. But
Sam's Journey into Woodworking
00:04:25
Sam
second or B, I don't know if I started a letter or number in this case.
00:04:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You just lost your PhD.
00:04:32
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:04:32
Sam
Well, it's a PHP.
00:04:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:04:33
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's a PHB now.
00:04:37
Sam
One time in undergrad, I had a professor who was adamant, adamant. She was like, if you like you have to call me doctor or like I'll fail you because I worked too hard for my doctorate.
00:04:51
Sam
And I remember having this like I don't like that attitude moment.
00:04:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:04:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:04:56
Sam
So because of that, I feel like I'm kind of spiteful. I'm like, I'm just like, cool with not putting PhD on everything.
00:05:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sam, my mentor did the same thing.
00:05:02
Sam
It's fine.
00:05:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I had to address her as doctor.
00:05:05
Sam
Yeah.
00:05:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Really?
00:05:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So the minute I got my PhD, then she introduced herself as her first name.
00:05:15
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, this is this is why people hate the intellectual elite.
00:05:16
Sam
What?
00:05:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And and that didn't, that that did not sit well with me at all.
00:05:20
YYEEEeeeeeRik
This is why.
00:05:22
Sam
Same, see, you get it, you get it. like its just some It's something that really did not sit well with me, I don't know.
00:05:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was like, I'm like, all right, anyway.
00:05:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh,
00:05:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All right, so now that we know that academics are awful human beings, what i want to but I want to know, Sam,
00:05:34
Sam
Okay, okay, This is a bad time to tell Eric that I taught college courses for like a year as an adjunct professor.
00:05:38
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um
00:05:41
YYEEEeeeeeRik
i hey hey I failed college courses, so we're all on the same page here.
00:05:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, Eric, I'm still a bit of an academic, so take it easy there, champ.
00:05:47
Sam
We're doing great.
00:05:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah So Sam, I want to know, ah yeah I want you to give us a little bit of a backstory as to basically how you got to be the bad bitch that you are.
00:05:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I have only known you for five years, so in our it the existence of our friendship, you've always been a bad bitch, but I presume at some point in your life, you weren't and you had to figure out how to be.
00:06:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So how to get us, start at the beginning, and then when you get to the end, you can stop.
00:06:12
Sam
Oh man. My villain origin story? Okay. So I was born on.
00:06:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Dun dun dun!
00:06:20
Sam
No, um, I don't know. Like this is always a hard one for me because I think that my life has brought me on so many different paths that have just like ended up here.
00:06:31
Sam
And sometimes I'm like, I don't know if those paths were supposed to cross, but we're here now. So let's embrace it. But, um, yeah, I dunno. I started my woodworking content journey in 2012, which makes me feel so fucking old.
00:06:45
Sam
Uh, and I,
00:06:46
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hold on, time out, first question already.
00:06:48
Sam
Yeah.
00:06:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um presumably Presumably, you started...
00:06:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ.
00:06:51
Sam
Eric is raising his hand. We are academics here.
00:06:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, Sam, Sam, for those that don't watch the video feed, we raise our hand or finger when we really want to say something and so it cues the other people and to shut the fuck up.
00:06:54
Sam
As much as he wants to talk shit.
00:06:54
YYEEEeeeeeRik
first
00:07:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sam will just shout over us.
00:07:03
Sam
No, no, I will just talk all over all of you.
00:07:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah So yes, we've we've had this conversation many a time in an Italian family talking loudly over the person who's talking is a sign of affection.
00:07:09
Sam
who who It's endearing.
00:07:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
it's so But in podcasting, it doesn't work as well.
00:07:14
Sam
It means I love you if I talk over you.
00:07:18
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um Presumably you started making
00:07:19
Sam
Challenge accepted.
00:07:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Presumably you started making things ah before you started making content about it.
00:07:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thank God.
00:07:26
Sam
Before. Yeah.
00:07:28
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:07:28
Sam
Yes.
00:07:28
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So like, what, what was the first thing you made? How
Transition to Full-Time Content Creator
00:07:31
YYEEEeeeeeRik
did you, when was the first time you picked up a hammer?
00:07:31
Sam
ah Well, let me tell you about how my dad used to torture me when I was a teenager. because I didn't want a summer job. And he was like, well, too fucking bad. And he would take me to job sites.
00:07:43
Sam
And the first thing that he made me do, because he didn't want to do it, was he taught me how to like cut crown molding and do trim work and all the millwork stuff that he didn't want to do. So that was number one.
00:07:55
Sam
And then number two was he was like, if that's not torture enough, here's a tile saw. You're welcome. So those were the first two things I learned how to do.
00:08:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:08:03
Sam
um So that's great. just like you know diversified my carpentry skills within the first job he took me to.
00:08:12
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And when did DIY Huntress officially start?
00:08:15
Sam
Okay, so that I started going to job sites with my dad when I was 15. And then DI 100 officially started when I was 22. So I had some years under my belt of making stuff and knowing how to do this stuff. But like,
00:08:32
Sam
DIY Hunter started because someone was like, aren't like everyone would ask me, how did you make this thing? How did you do this thing? Oh, you got this thing out of the trash and turned it into this. And then one of my friends was like, why don't you just blog about it?
00:08:44
Sam
like Write it down.
00:08:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:08:45
Sam
And when people ask you how you did it, just be like, oh, check out my blog. And I was like, what the fuck is a blog? like I literally was like, I don't know what that means. And so I was like, okay. taught me the ropes, I started blogging, I was sharing it on Facebook and Instagram, and then people just started following it, and I was like, this is really weird.
00:09:05
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So did it start out as a businessman? Like, did you intend to grow a thing or?
00:09:07
Sam
No. I had no idea that you could even get paid doing this.
00:09:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:09:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:09:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:09:12
Sam
I had no clue. like I literally was just basically journaling projects. like What was that thing that we used to have with MySpace? What was that like online? There was like a, no, there was like an online journal where you could write all your deep thoughts and like people, you know what I'm talking, I started with an X.
00:09:22
YYEEEeeeeeRik
MySpace.
00:09:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, yeah.
00:09:29
Sam
i'm gonna I'm gonna think about it after the show, but it's gonna bother me so much.
00:09:32
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's going to bother me now.
00:09:34
Sam
Google it real quick.
00:09:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Sam, how long have you been doing DIY hunters for?
00:09:39
Sam
So, okay. So that started 2012. So I guess officially 12 years.
00:09:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow, that's a long time.
00:09:44
Sam
Um, so long time and the, I didn't realize you could make money on it. And then about, I wouldn't say two or three years into doing it.
00:09:55
Sam
There was ah a adapt was the first sponsor that was like, use a lot of our stuff. We should pay you for this. And I was like, time out people get paid for this.
00:10:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
They approached you off the jump.
00:10:04
Sam
Yeah. Off the jump. They were like, yeah, you use a bunch of our stuff.
00:10:05
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Interesting.
00:10:07
Sam
Like, why don't we pay you? And then from there was the floodgates rope and they created a monster. And then I was like, I'm going to get paid to do this.
00:10:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm. Hell yeah.
00:10:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:10:14
Sam
Yeah.
00:10:15
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Now I know from being your friend that you are as much of a workaholic as I am.
00:10:15
Sam
Yeah.
00:10:21
Sam
Oh yeah.
00:10:22
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And so I remember you went full time in what, 2021?
00:10:28
Sam
22.
00:10:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
22.
00:10:31
Sam
22? Let me see. What are we on? 25. So this is going to be your, September is technically year three, I guess. So 23.
00:10:39
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Okay. So you were, you were a school psychologist for a long number of years.
00:10:39
Sam
Yeah.
00:10:42
Sam
who Tenured.
00:10:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
You were tenured. Like you had every, every reason to stay on that career track and you decided to go full time in 2021, 2022 with content creation.
00:10:46
Sam
I was a tenured psychologist. Yep. Oh yeah. who
00:10:56
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So what was, what, what prompt, I obviously we've talked about it many of times, but what for the audience, what was the thing that prompted you to do that?
00:10:56
Sam
Shirted.
00:11:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And Sam, can you also tell us a little bit about your background as a psychologist? Because I feel like like that plays into like the later part of the episode when we talk about you know ah other things.
00:11:09
Sam
Sure.
00:11:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:11:16
Sam
Yeah, so um I obviously went to undergrad for psychology um and it was just like general psych studies. And then I, this is a fun fact. I don't know if I have ever talked about this on the podcast, but um I was taking a bunch of classes and back, like, ah like backloading summer classes because it was, I was just trying to save as much money as I could going to college. So I was just taking all like the cheap classes and you know, overloading my schedule. And I remember going to my my advisor going into my senior year. So this was end of year three of my four year degree. And I went to my advisor and I was like, what do I have left to take? Like, I literally cannot figure out, like, what do I have left? And he was like,
00:11:55
Sam
oh did you apply for graduation and I was like no I have one more year and he was like no girl you are you are done like your credits are done so you need to apply for graduation and I had this like oh shit moment of like I don't know what to do with my future because I thought I had one more year here um and at that point I had to kind of figure out what my specialty was going to be right because you can get a job in general psychology but there's nothing really out there for a bachelor's in psychology you really need to specialize so After doing some soul searching, I decided to apply for school psychology ah positions in grad school in master's programs. And um thinking I would not get in, I was like, cool. I had to get recommendations on in like two weeks.
00:12:40
Sam
applications are due in two weeks. This is like totally my life. And I ended up getting into like my top school. um And i I did it. And then my second to last year of my master's, I was like, I'm just gonna apply for the
Educational Background and Career Choices
00:12:55
Sam
PhD. Like maybe I'll get in. It's a really, really, it's really competitive. It's so hard to get into PhD programs in psychology.
00:13:01
Sam
And um they accepted me. So I have my, technically I have my bachelor's in general psych, my master's in therapeutic interventions, which is just general counseling and creative therapies. And then I have my professional diploma and my PhD in school psychology.
00:13:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yo, I feel like we should be paying Sam to do this episode. I know,
00:13:24
Sam
Yeah, so if there's anything DAP taught me, I should be getting paid for this.
00:13:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I pay her in friendship.
00:13:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i know right?
00:13:28
Sam
so like
00:13:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All right, so you have you like you made that career decision to go do that thing.
00:13:35
Sam
Yeah, 10 whole years of college, baby.
00:13:36
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um 10 whole ass years of college is my personal nightmare. And then, so DIY Huntress is blowing up on YouTube. I think when you went full time, you were already over 200,000 subs.
00:13:49
Sam
Yeah, I was over 200,000 subs on YouTube, yeah.
00:13:51
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Okay. And so what, like, what was the impetus where you were like, I'm going to leave this career that I have been striving for and building toward for 10 years.
00:14:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And now I'm going to just go build shit on the internet.
00:14:04
Sam
Yeah, it's a while. Sometimes I question my life choices. um No, me I don't think for me. I know for me there were a couple things. um One is that, unfortunately, school psychologists, as well as many educators in our country, are severely underpaid.
00:14:20
Sam
like For the amount of work that we all do and the hours we put in and like the amount of ourselves we give to our job, it's just really hard to make a living and a sustainable living doing that.
00:14:20
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:14:32
Sam
um
00:14:33
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Paul, you just put on an echo, whatever you just did.
00:14:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah Sorry. Sorry. No, I'm all set.
00:14:37
Sam
We're good.
00:14:37
YYEEEeeeeeRik
He's just getting distracted over there.
00:14:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sorry.
00:14:38
Sam
oh
00:14:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
What a host.
00:14:41
Sam
He's like, I need to hear Sam and surround sound.
00:14:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, no, no. No, no. Sorry. It was a mistake. So Sam, sorry. One question as you're elaborating, when you say school psychologist, is this like elementary school or high school?
00:14:51
Sam
So I worked in a high school.
00:14:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:14:54
Sam
um Yeah, I worked with high schoolers and I loved working with high schoolers.
00:14:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Got it. Understood.
00:15:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:15:00
Sam
I really do miss that job a lot of times. um It was very fulfilling and like working with teenagers is great. They just look at the world so differently. And it's funny because I remember telling people like, oh yeah, like like working in a high school, like working with teenagers, like that's my jam, like it's my calling and people will be like, what is wrong with you? And I don't know, it's just like, i I think a lot of teenagers are just looking for people in their lives that are similar enough in age to still get it right that aren't their parents that they just want to like connect to and feel like they can trust so I don't know I liked it um but that being said there was that there was also this I've always had this deep calling in my life to work for myself like it's just this you know when you have a feeling or like
00:15:48
Sam
a desire and you're like, I need to do this. Like this is something that is just so strong that I will not feel fulfilled in life until I do. Like that is how I felt about being my own boss. I just felt like there's something in me that knows if I don't take this leap and try to do this, I will always regret that.
00:16:07
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Interesting.
00:16:07
Sam
And yeah, and so I got to a point where I was like, okay, my my side hustle at the time, my side hustle is making a lot more money than I'm making, working in public education. um There were a lot of changes administratively and politically in the school climate after COVID that were just making my job very hard. And I was feeling like a very depleted human being. um I was working like 80 hours a week between that and my business like like and i'm not exaggerating when i say that i would go to my job from seven am to like three pm and then i would work for diy hunters from about three pm to like 11 pm and it was seven like it was a seven day a week endeavor yeah it was yeah it was not healthy um
00:16:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god, Sam.
00:16:49
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:16:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No way.
00:16:54
Sam
Yeah, so I got to a point, basically, I was like, this is not healthy, obviously. And I need to make a change in my life. And I have to choose. And I never wanted to choose.
00:17:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:17:00
Sam
Like, I was always really adamant about, like, I'm going to do both of these things forever. And then I just got to a point where I was like, I can't do both of these things forever, can I? um
00:17:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yeah
00:17:10
Sam
So I decided to try. I mean, I was in a good place. I i did get tenure. um I got vested in my pension. So I still have like a little pension that's waiting there for me.
00:17:22
Sam
But also my my thought was like, hey, if this whole DIY Huntress thing doesn't work, like I have a PhD in psychology. I can always go back. I can always try this again.
00:17:32
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Can always fall back, yeah.
00:17:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You'll always have a job.
00:17:33
Sam
like Right.
00:17:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:17:34
Sam
And so that was helpful. um because it kind of gave me this, like, what's to lose. If you don't jump and you don't try and you don't see if it works, you'll never know if it works.
00:17:44
Sam
And I i don't want to live in regret.
00:17:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, Sam, that's very inspiring. I bet a lot of people listening are being like, maybe I should be jumping.
00:17:51
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm. It's, it's also interesting though. Cause like my, my mindset when I went full-time was very much the same. I was like, I am still under the assumption and that at some point I'll go back to teaching full-time.
00:18:04
Sam
Yeah.
00:18:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I don't know when that it could be next year. It could be in 40 years. I have no idea. But the assumption is that like, Ian Curtis as an internet personality will run its course and then you move on to the next thing.
00:18:09
Sam
Yeah.
00:18:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hmm interesting
00:18:17
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So that's interesting that you had the same mindset.
00:18:17
Sam
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think I also grew up with parents who always, and I really am grateful for this, who would always and like be like, okay, cool, that's plan A, what's plan B?
00:18:29
Sam
And they would always kind of set me up for like, you can follow your dreams, that's really cool, but it doesn't really hurt to have a plan B.
00:18:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:18:35
Sam
and I think part of that's just because my mom didn't want me to go to school for musical theater, like which is fine, which was a great decision. um But but um no, I just, I appreciated that.
00:18:48
Sam
And I grew up with a dad that worked
Managing Creative Pressures and Gratitude
00:18:51
Sam
two, three, four jobs, right? So I always grew up with that mindset of like you don't have to be one thing. like You can do multiple things.
00:18:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:18:59
Sam
Yeah, and you can try new things and try different things.
00:19:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:19:02
Sam
And then like the other things are still there. like you know The fourth thing doesn't work, no.
00:19:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:19:07
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So that that kind of, brand um I feel like I'm going full Paul this episode. I'm like trying to move the conversation. I'm trying to hit the questions that we have in this. You're rubbing off on me, buddy.
00:19:18
YYEEEeeeeeRik
and not in the good way. ah So the, that's honestly, so all right.
00:19:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes baby!
00:19:20
Sam
This is great. This is the most organized I've ever seen him. What did you do to him?
00:19:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So that brings up the next question though, is as a full-time content creator, you're never doing just one thing.
00:19:32
Sam
No, what is that?
00:19:32
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And when you left your job, right, exactly, having one job to do, I don't know what that's about. um When you left your job as a school psychologist and you you went in full-time on DIY Huntress,
00:19:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That creates a pressure on the business that wasn't there before.
00:19:52
Sam
Yeah.
00:19:52
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And how do you deal with that pressure, whether that's an internal pressure to try to like hit banger after banger with every video that you put out or external pressures from companies that come in and say like, Hey, we need this video to hit X.
00:20:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Otherwise we're canceling this contract.
00:20:09
Sam
Oh, no, no, no, I don't know.
00:20:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like, how do you balance that?
00:20:11
Sam
I don't even entertain those. I don't even entertain those.
00:20:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Okay.
00:20:14
Sam
So. I feel fortunate that I'm at a point in my creation career where I can say yes or no to things, right? Like if an opportunity comes in and it doesn't feel like it's a good fit or it feels like it's gonna be soul sucking, I'm allowed to put a price on the sanity metric for that and say like, that doesn't meet my you know bottom line for my sanity metrics.
00:20:36
Sam
So that's a no. um I understand there are lots of creators that don't have that luxury. And so for me, i that is like one like I find things to have gratitude for on a daily basis.
00:20:48
Sam
And that is one that I continue to come back to.
00:20:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, Sam, yay!
00:20:51
Sam
like oh yeah let's go yeah we can put it on loop i mean like i can make a bedtime story for you if you want i would like tap my nails on the mic like
00:20:52
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Also, the sanity metric is a fucking great way to phrase that.
00:20:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We just...
00:20:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god, I love everything you're saying. Gratitude, appreciation, metrics, like, youre whisper this shit in my ear, whatever.
00:21:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but you gotta do like, you gotta do ASMR, I gotta, like Eric does.
00:21:19
Sam
Gratitude.
00:21:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god! I can't take it!
00:21:24
Sam
But for real, I don't know, I just, I promised myself that yes, this is a job and there is a different level of stress that comes with that. We were just talking about this in the pre-show, but every January I like stress that I'm like, is this the year I cannot pay the bills and have to shut my shop down?
00:21:41
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mhmm.
00:21:42
Sam
um But I think every business order feels that way in Q1 a little bit.
00:21:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mhmm.
00:21:48
Sam
But yeah, I don't know. I just, I make sure that the opportunities that I am saying yes to are ones that I don't feel like I'm selling my soul for. And that's how I, I still keep it kind of fun.
00:21:59
Sam
It's still stressful, but it's fun.
00:22:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Sam, in terms of so like your own pressure on yourself, maybe it's not coming from an external advertiser, you know you put out these videos and some do better than others and you try to diagnose, why did this one do well?
00:22:12
Sam
Yeah.
00:22:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
why did this you know and And that's like any maker. They put out a particular piece of art or a product. and one goes like hotcakes and the next one doesn't. So you're asking yourself, what is it about this that was so good? How can I how can i you know do better? um do you put a lot of pressure Do you feel a sense of pressure about every video being better than the last? How do you handle that?
00:22:36
Sam
um no and like no i guess i guess the way that i look at this is okay so for instance uh if i put up a video and it could be woodworking it could be home improvement it could be like i'm i'm starting a van series i'm not quite sure how it's gonna do um which is gonna be an interesting experiment for me because it's completely different than anything i put on my channel but what i will say is I know that I have a supportive enough community that I can like, if I had to guarantee a view count or something to a sponsor, I could be like, okay, I can guarantee this video will get like 30,000 views in 30 days, right?
00:23:15
Sam
And to me, the fact that 30,000 people want to watch my video, I'm like, are you kidding me?
00:23:19
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
00:23:20
Sam
Like every time I see that number, I'm like, this is someone's lying, right? So for me, I'm just like grateful that that is my dedicated audience. Like they're just there for me and they show up for me and I know they're gonna be there for me.
00:23:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's great.
00:23:33
Sam
And so yeah, for me, it's like I try not to put pressure on that number because the reality is too is, hey, I really envy in a sense people who can sit behind their computer and change their thumbnails and watch their analytics and like see their CTR and do this like weird statistical analysis thing on their channel.
00:23:51
Sam
Like my brain doesn't work that way. I just wanna make cool shit and share it with people and teach people how to do things.
00:23:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:23:55
Sam
And then like, hopefully people feel inspired by it maybe someone will be like hey i built the table you built 10 years ago and i'm like sick right but like i don't know i just feel like it's so easy sometimes to get caught up in the metrics and you have to to an extent as a business owner don't get me wrong but for me i feel like I am currently in the, if it's not broke, don't fix it, but continue to try to strive to do better because not, it's not just for you.
00:24:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:24:25
Sam
It's for like the people who are inspired by you. And the other thing I want to say is social media, especially, there is an algorithm that we do not.
00:24:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:24:34
Sam
understand like that.
00:24:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
right.
00:24:36
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Can't control.
00:24:36
Sam
Yeah. And I just feel like it's so easy to get caught up in that too.
00:24:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
00:24:39
Sam
And all I can do is just be on and you guys, I'm sure I've watched my stories.
00:24:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:24:43
Sam
I'm very honest in my stories about like, Hey, so that thing I posted yesterday, Instagram show to 5% of you.
00:24:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yup.
00:24:49
Sam
So if you're feeling frisky and could give me some love so I can keep the sponsor, that'd be great. And guess what? My community rallies, they show up for me and I'm so fortunate.
00:24:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow, that's awesome.
00:24:58
Sam
So I try to focus on that, you know,
00:25:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's the thing that you framed for me. So full disclosure to folks, um Sam is one of those people who, when I went full time, I was basically like, hey, how do I do this?
00:25:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:25:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
like you Because not only are you successful, but you also, like you can identify your emotional well-being, the health of your business, and balance those two things better than I think most of us in this community can.
00:25:28
Sam
Sometimes I would say like 10 out of 12 months a year.
00:25:28
YYEEEeeeeeRik
so Well, I mean, listen, we're, we're, we we're all human. We all, you know, but, but so having you as a resource to remind me that like things ebb and flow that are outside of
00:25:33
Sam
Yes.
00:25:43
Sam
who
Solitude vs. Loneliness in Creativity
00:25:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
my control.
00:25:45
Sam
No.
00:25:45
YYEEEeeeeeRik
has been a huge help for me at points when like, you know, you hit like three bangers in a row and you're like, I figured it out. Like no video that I ever put out is going to get less than a million views now.
00:25:53
Sam
and no
00:25:56
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And then the next six are like your bottom two videos and you're like, what the fuck am I doing?
00:26:01
Sam
Yeah.
00:26:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I should just give up now. And you're always the person who's like, you can't control it. It's outside of your control.
00:26:06
Sam
You can't.
00:26:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:26:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:26:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Um, and that's, that's, that's a massive, um,
00:26:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Comfort, that's a massive like piece of encouragement to come from somebody who is going through the same things as a business owner, as a content creator.
00:26:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um And that also brings up the conversation of community and what it's like to make things in your own shop space by yourself.
00:26:25
Sam
Yeah.
00:26:36
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Because I think this is a thing, I think the majority of people who get into woodworking, and I know we have a broader audience than that, but all three of us here make things out of wood so when we imagine in the beginning of our career paths um having a shop making things we always imagine kind of the one person shop and I think often we get there, I got there, and we realize like, oh, this this kind of sucks.
00:27:05
YYEEEeeeeeRik
like or Or at least this is really fucking hard sometimes.
00:27:08
Sam
It's so hard. Yeah.
00:27:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So I wanna know about that. like what is your Like Paul lives in a hermit's cave in his garage and figures out how to make shit. um I intentionally chose to be around other people in a community space so that I don't feel so isolated.
00:27:27
YYEEEeeeeeRik
How do you?
00:27:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Just a note, I didn't intentionally want to be in a hermit's cave alone. I'm an extrovert.
00:27:33
Sam
You mean you don't you don't like being a hermit girl?
00:27:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I love people being around, but there's no one to be around if it's going to be my garage other than my wife, and she's like, get me out of this hellhole.
00:27:39
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's fair.
00:27:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So So yeah, Sam, so the question I guess that Eric's leading into is, does working alone on all of these things um exacerbate the pressure? How does working alone fit with your personality?
00:27:58
Sam
Yeah, I mean, I talked to Eric about this probably on a monthly basis because I absolutely love the situation he's in where like he has a shop space that he shares with other creative people that he can like bounce ideas off of at any point. And don't get me wrong, I have that too. I know I can pick up a phone at FaceTime Eric and be like,
00:28:16
Sam
Am I wild for this and like talk me off the ledge and the answer is always yes and no problem, but Yeah, it's hard.
00:28:18
YYEEEeeeeeRik
The answer is always yes.
00:28:25
Sam
It's definitely that is I think the hardest Part of this job for me. I am someone who really likes being around other people and especially other creative people
00:28:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:28:35
Sam
Um, hello, I went to school to get my PhD in psychology. Like I clearly like talking to people. Um, but for me, the hardest thing has definitely been the isolation and like working by myself.
00:28:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:28:48
Sam
And there are definitely times where like, like Chris will come home from work and I'm like, we need to go to dinner. Like I need to just like be out of this house.
00:28:56
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
00:28:56
Sam
Like I can't look at the same. eight walls anymore today. um But it is. That was really difficult. and it really actually like I had this moment a couple months ago, and like I was talking to Eric about this too, where this year especially, and I don't know if it's because I'm just like in the grind now and doing the thing, but I really felt it this year. like I really had moments this year where I was like,
00:29:20
Sam
It's just me talking to the dog again. It's just me talking to ah like a camera lens and no one's talking back again today.
00:29:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:29:26
Sam
And like that kind of sucks, you know? Like you have those moments where it feels really lonely.
00:29:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I think you know when people think about being alone and making art, I feel like it can come in two flavors. And one flavor is solitude, let's call.
00:29:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And the other flavor is loneliness. And solitude, I think this is a useful distinction, these two terms. like I always felt like solitude
00:29:49
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Are you going to define right now? Is that what's happening?
00:29:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm in honor of Mary, who is not here to ask for a definition.
00:29:55
Sam
if If I give you any word, will you define it for me? Like how does this work?
00:30:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mary loves her definition. So Mary, we're we're trying to draw the distinction between solitude and loneliness.
00:30:03
Sam
I love it.
00:30:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think solitude is an idea where you're an a maker, an artist, DIY, whatever, a content creator, solitude is that time that gives your It gives you time alone to come up with new ideas, to process, to go through the creative act, to to think you know to think really deeply and critically without interaction, without any interference from the outside world about what maybe I should do. Does this look OK? It's sort of a positive spin on being alone. It's sort of like the positive time of being alone. I would call that like, let's let's let's just for the moment use that term solitude. Whereas loneliness,
00:30:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it has ah It turns a corner. it it's it's more like a human there's There's an element of human suffering to loneliness.
00:30:53
Sam
Mm hmm.
00:30:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you know solitude It's solitude sort of gone awry because you're missing that you're missing that interaction. Now, I feel like solitude, it it has this double-edged sword.
00:31:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
right It can fuel inspiration. It can fuel creativity. It can give us the time we need to conceptualize that amazing thing we're going to make. And it's hard to do that with people around. because they demand your attention at all times so that your your brain cycles aren't available towards the thing.
00:31:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
00:31:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But if there's too much time if there's too much solitude, that can lead to loneliness, that can turn that corner into feelings of isolation, which then affects us globally, and not not even in the maker space.
00:31:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it you know as you I'm sure, Sam, you could elaborate on this far better than I, but it can lead to depressed it can lead to depression and you know a lot of dysfunction.
00:31:39
Sam
You're doing great.
00:31:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Now, the opposite, let's take the opposite to solitude, which is community. And you think, OK, well, that's great community. But I would argue not only a solitude, a double edged sword, good and bad, but I think community can be a double edged sword. So the positive parts of community are like the inspiration, the excitement. I'm an an extrovert. Sam, it sounds like you are too. Eric, you are too, I think.
00:32:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We have three extroverts on the show. But there's a positive aspect to community. It inspires, it alleviates the loneliness, it brings joy, and you leave a conversation, you hang out with your friends, and you feel like, you you just feel like youre you could explode, you just feel so good from hanging out, you just feel full. And that sometimes fuels your creative endeavors. But the negative side, or the other edge of that sword is all that time with other people, it requires time.
00:32:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It can make you feel inadequate if you're comparing yourself to others, and it steals your brain cycles from the art, which you're like, oh shit, I have to i have to i have to make.
00:32:41
Sam
Mmhmm.
00:32:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This isn't a good use of my time because I'm not making.
00:32:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I feel like both these these concepts of either solitude or community can have double-edged swords. And how they manifest with us is a function of our inherent personality type, right?
00:32:48
Sam
Yeah.
00:33:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
introverts, the battery gets drained, extroverts, the battery gets filled. So I thought maybe each of us could start, like now that's sort of, if if that's the sort of the groundwork, maybe each of us could give our individual experience of what it's like to work alone.
00:33:02
Sam
Totally.
00:33:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Sam, you can if you like.
00:33:19
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So we're not gonna hit all four of those, like a like a Punnett Square situation.
00:33:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, Mr.
00:33:24
Sam
I don't know why my brain, wait, so my brain, I am very food motivated and I was like, are we going to make a pie chart?
00:33:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
See that science shit?
00:33:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jinnah.
00:33:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh!
00:33:30
Sam
Like, I don't know why my brain went to pies first, but I was like pie charts. um
00:33:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
If there's a t-shirt that comes out of this, it's ah I'm very food motivated.
00:33:39
Sam
But actually with a pie chart that looks like pizza cut into different slices and like each slice has it.
00:33:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
With a pie chart.
00:33:45
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sorry, i didn't mean you know ah I didn't mean to step on Paul's question, but I did because he took my question that I was leading up to.
00:33:47
Sam
Oh my God. i'm go it
00:33:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:33:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Carry on. What's what's the question again, buddy?
00:33:57
Sam
No, I got you. I was listening. Don't worry, Paul. I got you.
00:33:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thank you, Sam.
00:34:00
Sam
Okay. So we're talking about how working by ourselves, like what that experience is like for each one of us.
00:34:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:34:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:34:06
Sam
Okay. So.
00:34:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
At least someone listens to Eric.
00:34:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I try to not.
00:34:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:34:12
Sam
How does that make you feel, Paul? I'm just kidding.
00:34:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sorry, Sam. Sam, I interrupted you. Please go ahead.
00:34:17
Sam
No, you're good. um I think for me, it's funny because I was just talking about this with someone today. So for me, I really enjoy working by myself on a lot of things.
00:34:29
Sam
A lot of my projects, I thoroughly enjoy doing it my way and like my pace and the way that I want to and not having like outside world opinions. However,
00:34:41
Sam
However, I think if I don't sprinkle in a couple times a month or a couple times a quarter, those opportunities to work with other people is when I really start to feel more of like that isolation and loneliness. so like For me, I'm really fortunate. My dad lives very close. We work together a lot.
00:35:02
Sam
like At any point, I could be like, hey, dad, want to come like do some work on the van with me this weekend? And he's like, yeah, be right over. And I spend the day with him working. And sometimes, like that's just enough. right or yeah Or I'll be like, Eric, do you want to collab in a couple weeks?
00:35:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's amazing Sam.
00:35:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:35:17
Sam
like You come here, I come there. I literally don't care. like Can we just build something stupid? And like that's great, too. right So I just have found that there's a balance for me. like There's a scale. right And at some points, I need to sprinkle some like other creative time on the other side of the scale or else it gets like super out of whack for me.
00:35:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but you know what that implies? That implies you're aware of the scale for yourself.
00:35:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's a there's an in a self-insight to your scale.
00:35:42
Sam
Yes.
00:35:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I mean, sam Sam is an incredibly self insightful person, like share her self awareness.
00:35:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised, Sam, PhD.
00:35:49
Sam
Mmm.
00:35:49
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, you like I mean, you're gonna you're gonna do the thing that I do when Paul gives me a compliment, which is like, try to be like, No, that's stupid.
00:35:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:35:56
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah But it's true. Like, this is this is why I text you when I'm like, I wonder why my emotions are stupid right now, because emotions are stupid.
00:36:06
Sam
Yeah, they are.
00:36:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah And you you you have insights to those things, because you've been through them. And you are self aware enough to analyze them.
00:36:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm.
00:36:14
Sam
It's hard. and i think But I do think it's important. I'm not a person who journals. I'm not really like a sit down or write down my feelings type person. But what I am is I am feeling a little off today. Why am I feeling off? right And
Strategies to Maintain Community and Connection
00:36:27
Sam
so I think it is important to, at any point, figure out like what that baseline looks like for you when you notice that you're just in that content place. like we're not we're not like super happy we're not super sad we're just like in that place where we're floating we're like i'm comfortable and i'm cool and and like this is my zen right and take those moments to realize like okay here are all those things in my life that are lining up the right way to make me feel zen right now and that's my baseline and then anytime that's
00:36:52
Sam
you know more positive or negative, also taking note of that. A great example is when we go to conferences or maker meetups or brand things and I come home buzzing.
00:37:05
Sam
like ah like I am i am like high on friendship when I come home from these things because I am just spending so much time
00:37:05
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:37:12
Sam
with people that I feel very inspired by and that make me very happy, right? And, but then like a couple of days later, my baseline now is like below because now I'm like, well, now I'm sad because I'm not with my friends anymore, right?
00:37:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:37:26
Sam
So like in those moments, like that's great awareness for me personally, because then I can take note of like, okay, my baseline is off right now, either positive or negative.
00:37:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:37:34
Sam
How do we get back to that? And I think you're right. Like it is, it is sometimes hard to take note of that, But like journaling, for instance, is a great way to do that if you're not someone who's aware of what exactly is causing that because you can start to see patterns in your life of like, okay, this thing makes me feel good.
00:37:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow, Sam.
00:37:53
Sam
This thing makes me feel bad. How do I get back to baseline?
00:37:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So good. Sam, so good.
00:37:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's that practical psychology shit right there, man.
00:38:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Damn.
00:38:01
Sam
Should I quit content creation and go be a psychologist?
00:38:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love it.
00:38:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um
00:38:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So um i think I think for my experience with the difficulty of isolation in woodworking, um ah like Sam, similar to what you said, early in my career, I had a shot by myself.
00:38:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How about you, Eric?
00:38:25
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And I would be in there eight, 10 hours a day all by my lonesome. And then ah my ex-wife would come home. And I'd be like yeah like, she was a teacher. And I was like, can if we just we should just talk for the next four to five hours because like I need to like human interaction. And she was like, I've been talking to people for eight hours. It's like, this is not is not how it's going to work.
00:38:48
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So I realized I well, I didn't realize at that moment. But um later on, I realized I needed a balance of things. And how I came to that conclusion was when I was teaching myself is I had the social aspect of like four, five to six hours a day, I was interacting with students, I was interacting with my coworkers, I was doing all these things.
00:39:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And then that's also when I started social media as ah as a
00:39:09
Sam
Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:39:15
YYEEEeeeeeRik
business opportunity. So for any, you know, three to six hours in the afternoon and evening I would be working in the shop. And my co-teacher, she was the 2D arts teacher, Nicole. ah She was one of the kindest people on the planet. like I would constantly just go in and be like, hey, what do you think about this? you know like what What are you seeing that I'm not seeing here? Can you get different eyes on it? And it was helpful because she's not a woodworker too. um And it was through that for four years that I realized like having somebody that you're not necessarily working with, but you're working alongside,
00:39:51
YYEEEeeeeeRik
that you can just pop in and like, tell a stupid fucking joke to I got to walk away from this piece for 10 minutes to stop looking at it. And I need to go like, hear about the dumb shit that you did or some other kid did today.
00:40:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like that type of community is so valuable.
00:40:04
Sam
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:40:07
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And that's why I i love so much the situation that I have in my own shop right now because uh, Larissa and I have very different schedules, but we, we overlap, you know, probably about a good third of the time.
00:40:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Um, Amanda's also in there.
00:40:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:40:22
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So sometimes Amanda's in there and that when the three of us are in there and it's just like, we're shooting the shit back and forth. Um, but there's, there's also times where like I can get in, I know I can get in there in the morning and have my alone time and I can like.
00:40:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The solitude.
00:40:35
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, and I can set the coffee cup on the bench and I can be quiet, I can put the music on and go if I need to, like whatever the thing is I need in that moment, I can provide for myself knowing that it's going to end. And I think for me, um not necessarily having a schedule of like, I know Larissa is gonna show up at 2 p.m., the kind of the spontaneity of when that ends is a thing that I appreciate. You know, it's like,
00:41:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Similar to when I was teaching when the first student walks in for the day, that time is now over and it transitions into something else.
00:41:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:41:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And it kind of makes it, um, not more valuable, but it's easier to appreciate in the moment when you know, like, ah, any minute it's going to transition into something else.
00:41:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it So it sounds like you have a built-in balance, Eric.
00:41:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that balances. she I, it cannot be overstated how important that balance is to me.
00:41:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:41:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
If I was in a shop by myself, I would wither as a human being.
00:41:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:41:34
Sam
It's hard.
00:41:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
But if, if I was in a shop also where like everybody was always there, I would be the person who comes in at like 4am to have some alone time in the shop.
00:41:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah, so it sounds like this works out perfectly.
00:41:47
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's, it's, it's a fantastic situation. Yeah. Paul, what about you buddy?
00:41:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So yeah, so for me, i'm my shop is my at home, my two car garage. And so um it's always me.
00:42:04
Sam
she
00:42:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:42:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's always just me. um And I realized early on that I get lonely in the shop.
00:42:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:42:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I do a lot. I'm an extrovert. I can't help it. I love people. I love views. I love i just love people. you know And that there's for me, I've realized when solitude turns into loneliness, so when I'm in a flow state,
00:42:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's solitude, I love it. I mean, the hours go by like minutes.
00:42:35
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
00:42:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't even notice I'm alone. It's like, you know, like when I'm carving, a but I don't know why carving, maybe maybe because I'm not super proficient at it yet, so it still demands all my attention, but carving, holy shit, 24 hours of carving goes by like two minutes.
00:42:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I'm like, oh, that was so fun. And I didn't feel lonely for an instant. And then there's things that's just like milling wood and doing kind of more mundane activities, where I don't know, after two, three hours, dude, I'm done.
00:43:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm done being alone after ah two, three, four hours. I only got about four hours in me, to be honest anymore.
00:43:12
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:43:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
If I do full days, like i've've I've had times where i I did, you know, full days over breaks and whatever or weekends. And but but by the time I reach four hours, I am ready to leave. By the time I reach eight hours, I'm at the get me the fuck out of here stage.
00:43:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um So for me, it's balance. And so what do I do? So um i check I check in on my wife every hour or two. I just come in and I'm like, hey, coming to check on you. But I think the reality is I'm coming to check on me it's like because like i make I try to get the brownie points.
00:43:38
Sam
Yeah.
00:43:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm like, oh, just coming to check on you. But honestly, like I just need a pat on the head, a hug, like just some
00:43:49
Sam
like I need to make sure there are more voices than the one in my head today.
00:43:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:52
Sam
like
00:43:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So so for me, it's it's it's tough it's constant and it's tough and it it comes and goes depending on how I feel. Now what helps is, and we'll talk about solutions later as ah as a dedicated segment, but just anecdotally, like I'm texting all day with my buddies.
00:44:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like my phone's always there. If I feel lonely, I can just like call Eric or you know I call Keith a lot or talk to my you know or my sister or like anyone.
00:44:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and just have that in the background we can have a chat while i do other things you know like i'm doing mindless things in the shop and i can chat with that person and and feel that sense of connection so that helps. That helps a lot and then more recently i've had an a kind of an apprentice which is odd which is like because so many people have asked me i said no to all of them without it without a but.
00:44:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It happens to be one of my close friends and like we were friends for many, like almost 10 years. And then he had a massive heart attack at 52 being fit as a fiddle, thin fit surfer teacher, you know, tennis running.
00:44:54
Sam
Oh man.
00:45:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
massive heart attack.
00:45:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like what the fuck sense does that make?
00:45:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:45:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
00:45:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But it's it's hereditary cholesterol. Okay. Like it happened. And his name's Chris. And Chris, you know, when he was home, he was a teacher, but just like both of you, uh, he was home for two months and wondering, like thinking about life, thinking about like, what does this mean about mortality and you know, what we prioritize.
00:45:21
Sam
Nothing gives you an existential crisis like something like that.
00:45:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
00:45:25
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like, I was going to say like summer vacation, but also a heart attack.
00:45:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. So, so
00:45:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so Chris is, so Chris is telling me like he's been having like existential thoughts and I'm like, whisper sweet, nothing's in my ear.
00:45:30
Sam
That'll do it too.
00:45:35
Sam
Yeah.
00:45:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you Chris, you know, why I love this conversation. yeah I love this conversation more than anything.
00:45:39
Sam
How does that make you feel?
00:45:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah. Tell me all the feels, right? Cause I just, I love thinking about that. And he's like, one of the things I realized is I've always wanted to learn to work with my hands. And, you know, and, you know, what I've always had this curiosity about woodworking, any chance I could come by and like, just watch what you're doing one day and just like, chat with you.
00:45:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And like, we've been in friends for a decade already and he lists five minutes from me and he's a joy to be around.
00:46:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:46:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so I was like, yeah, come on. and we built a birdhouse to just show him some stuff and you know and then he just started helping me every day after school he comes over for like a not every day maybe once a week twice a week he'll come over after school for like an hour or two and he'll work on whatever i'm doing and he he he asks for nothing he's he's so appreciative and so generous and he's so nice to talk to and the hours go by like minutes and it it just fills me up and it's so awesome to have him
00:46:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
00:46:21
Sam
Love that.
00:46:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's it's been It's been such a value add to not be alone. And so Chris has shown me like how good it makes me feel to to to have that friendship and community.
00:46:46
YYEEEeeeeeRik
it's it's It
Challenges and Boundaries of Social Media
00:46:47
YYEEEeeeeeRik
can't be overstated how important that is, man.
00:46:49
Sam
Yeah.
00:46:50
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:46:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Sam, you know ah there's a question that somewhere, I guess more nuanced, actually both of you, you're both content creators. ah This is a question that bears on this.
00:47:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um Your goal is, in essence, is to reach a a broad audience, right? Because with a broad audience comes the opportunity for marketing and and growth and and income, right?
00:47:13
Sam
Yep.
00:47:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um The more successful you are at that, the more people want your attention.
00:47:22
Sam
who
00:47:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So basically, the better you are at the thing, the more the thing tries to take you away from doing the thing that got you popular in the first place. Because people want to talk to you, they want you to respond to their DMs, they want you on this podcast, they want you on that, they want to have a phone call with you, they want to ask you questions, they want to visit your shop. And so it's sort of paradoxical, right? The better you are at this, the more demands try to take you away from it.
00:47:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So how do you deal with that piece of social media? like and And you'd say, oh, you know the better I am at social media, the more community I'll have. But funny enough, that community takes you away, in essence, from doing the thing that got you noticed in the first place.
00:48:08
Sam
But on the flip side, like part of me feels like without them, I wouldn't have what I have, right? So like, right.
00:48:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm well, this is yeah the the the dichotomy like is this is the duality of it because both are true
00:48:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. yeah
00:48:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
00:48:20
Sam
Right. And they can be true.
00:48:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:48:21
Sam
I think, I remember, I like very, remember this very well. I used to try to answer like every comment on YouTube, every comment on Instagram. I used to really try.
00:48:33
Sam
And then I remember at some point getting to a point where I was like, I physically can't do this anymore. Like this is just, really impossible and I felt guilty about it like I really felt guilty that I couldn't respond to everybody and then I would see other creators who don't respond to people who still have these like amazing communities and then I saw other people who were like listen I give an hour of my time to responding and I try my best but then at some point I got to move on and do another project and then I took that yep
00:49:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
You taught me that. you were You were the one who gave me the two-hour rule.
00:49:05
Sam
Yeah, and so that's what i so that's what I do. And that's exactly it. So on a day that I post content, I will be present for anybody who's available and has questions or wants to talk more about the project or just even be awesome and be like, this is great. um And i'll I'll spend like an hour or two doing that. But then after that, the phone goes down and I have to do more because like I have to move on with my day. And like maybe if I'm sitting on the couch at night, I'll just scroll through a couple. If I see a question or two, like I'll answer it. But if you don't,
00:49:34
Sam
Life is about setting some boundaries. And if you don't set that boundary and you don't set set this expectation in a sense where like you're like, I need to respect my time and so do other people, right then like I can't make content if I just sit on my phone and answer questions all the time. I've actually shut off all my notifications on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok. like I get no push notifications anymore. And doing that was one of the best things ever because then I don't feel pressured to have to respond to everything.
00:50:03
Sam
My friends know if they need me, they got my phone number. And don't text me because I'm really bad at text too. Like call, pick up the phone and call me, right? Like they know. So, oh, I know.
00:50:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sam, you're a caller?
00:50:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
She is, she is.
00:50:14
Sam
I can't, can I tell you why?
00:50:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
sam sam that is Sam, that's so rare in today's society.
00:50:16
YYEEEeeeeeRik
There's not a lot of us millennials who are callers.
00:50:20
Sam
Can I tell you why?
00:50:20
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yeah
00:50:21
Sam
I am the person, if you text me, and i and I'm doing something, I'm cutting some wood, I don't know, I'm watching crappy reality TV, I don't know.
00:50:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:50:30
Sam
I will do the same where I like read your text and I acknowledge it, but then I get distracted by the thing I'm doing and I'll put the phone down, and then three days later I'm like, oh fuck.
00:50:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:50:39
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yup.
00:50:40
Sam
Like that is like, that is who I am.
00:50:41
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yup. Yup. Yup. I do the same thing.
00:50:44
Sam
And so, so like people who are really close to me know they just need to call me because if you call me, I'm present. I'll pick up the phone. We can have a conversation. That's great. Like I know I have friends who just text and then they're like, I don't answer for three days.
00:50:57
Sam
Like it's cool. We know it's fine.
00:50:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:50:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yeah Yeah.
00:50:58
Sam
It's all good.
00:50:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:50:59
Sam
Like they just know it's going to three to five business days.
00:50:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, Sam, I feel you on the phone calls.
00:50:59
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
00:50:59
YYEEEeeeeeRik
You'll get, you'll get back when you get back.
00:51:01
Sam
It's cool. Like that's just, it's yeah.
00:51:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric knows I'm a phone caller.
00:51:07
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I love a phone call. I like, I will, I will chat on the phone.
00:51:07
Sam
I love a good phone call.
00:51:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's easier, but there are also times where it's like, there are multiple conversations going on at the same time.
00:51:11
Sam
Yeah.
00:51:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, so so I learned something about phone calling and we're going to come back to this, our main topic.
00:51:17
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And then I have to put it down and walk away.
00:51:19
Sam
That's fair.
00:51:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I learned that if you keep it brief, people don't mind picking up your call. If you're a long fucking talker and it takes a half hour to get off the phone with you, no one's going to want to pick up your calls.
00:51:31
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, this is, this is a lesson. This is why I pick up the phone 50% of the time when my mother calls me.
00:51:39
Sam
Does she listen to this podcast?
00:51:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Rita, there's a 50-50 chance. Rita, you know I love you. You're a wonderful mother, and I appreciate everything you've done for me. But like for fuck's sake, she called this morning and 15 minutes. I'm trying to like answer emails. I'm drinking a cup of coffee because it's 7 o'clock in the morning. She's already in the car going somewhere because she's 69 or whatever she is. And it's like, can what are we? You're just talking at me for 10, 15 minutes. like We're not having a conversation.
00:52:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, that's what mothers are supposed to do. But Eric, so can you answer that same question? Like how do you set the boundaries about like the success of the social media has put you in touch, with you know, with so many, but that pulls you, yeah how do you set your boundaries?
00:52:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah that's it That's it's, it's, it's a hard one. to And I was literally thinking about this yesterday. um And unprompted I didn't I didn't know that this was gonna be part of this conversation. ah And i I had kind of a sad moment of I feel like realistically looking at the the pace with which I make things now, I'm making one to two good objects a year.
00:52:43
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Um, and that's down from three to four, a few years ago, and that's down from five to six, a couple of years before that. And now part of that. is balance, right?
00:52:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like taking time out to do other things. Part of that is being in more meaningful relationships across the spectrum and dedicating time to those things.
00:53:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:53:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So it's not all bad, but
00:53:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:53:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
But a big part of that is just running the business.
00:53:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:53:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And at the end of the day, like what I am deeply grateful for is the fact that I do get to make things. And I get to spend the vast majority of my time at this moment in my life making things.
00:53:24
Sam
Amen.
00:53:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And that that's an incredible um opportunity that I don't take lightly. people literally people literally give me money every month on Patreon to just keep doing the dumb shit that I'm doing on the internet, which is mind boggling to me.
00:53:39
Sam
It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing.
00:53:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's a beautiful thing.
00:53:42
Sam
Yeah.
00:53:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:53:42
YYEEEeeeeeRik
um But also what that means is there's emails to answer when, like even just taking Patreon, for example, when I put a thing up on Patreon, I feel an obligation and duty to answer those comments, um, you know, with some relative recency, uh, and, or relative pace.
00:54:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:54:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And like all of those things chip away at the time that you have to make things. And so it's, it's this weird dichotomy of.
00:54:14
Sam
but it's still important.
00:54:16
YYEEEeeeeeRik
it It is, it is. And I'm not i'm not saying that I'm um bitter about it or I don't want to do it because, I mean, look, the reality is social media founded my friendship with both of you.
00:54:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And like, exactly.
00:54:29
Sam
Yeah, you're stuck with me, bitch.
00:54:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true.
00:54:31
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like, we I love both of you so deeply. um But it also can create this thing of, ah it's just endless distractions because there's always somebody who wants to say something nice to you. And then and i'm I'm not trying to shit on anybody, so please don't take it this way. But like somebody shoots you a DM and it's nice, so you're like, I should respond. And then they hit you with 14 questions and you're like, ah.
00:55:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Do I respond? I don't know this person, and it's going to take 20 minutes to like have this conversation.
00:55:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:55:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And then that spreads out over all of the people who who DM me, who email you, who do all of the things.
00:55:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:55:13
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So it's a boatload of distractions. And the reality is like, I just can't, I can't produce, or I can't dedicate the mental space to creating deeply meaningful work. And this, I think was the linchpin of the thing that I was kind of sad about yesterday. I can't dedicate the amount of mental energy that it takes to create what I think is deeply meaningful, deeply self-reflective work when there are that many distractions going on.
00:55:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:55:45
Sam
Yeah.
00:55:45
YYEEEeeeeeRik
But all of those things that are happening is the thing that allows me the financial vehicle to create work in the first place.
00:55:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And any of them in isolation could be good. Let's say you do respond to that one person who knows, like you might get to know them and have a meaningful friendship and like...
00:55:56
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah. Hey, buddy, our friendship came out of the fact that I DM'd you because you took really good pictures of your cutting boards. And at first you were like, I don't know who this fucker is. And then over time, now we're doing a fucking podcast.
00:56:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
readily Really?
00:56:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, I remember the first couple of DMs you sent me were like a little bit cold.
00:56:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Really? Really?
00:56:12
YYEEEeeeeeRik
they were they They weren't mean, but they were like, you know, well, yeah, because we didn't fucking know each other.
00:56:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, I don't remember this at all.
00:56:19
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Of course you don't remember it.
00:56:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:56:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
well now And now we're married and have a podcast together.
00:56:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
But like, that's the point is like, right.
00:56:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Right.
00:56:26
Sam
It's a beautiful thing.
00:56:26
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And so like, you, you don't know where those friendships come from.
00:56:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Interesting. Interesting. Well, I would say also, I just want to give a shout out to Conrad, you know, our occasional co-host and playmaker extraordinaire.
00:56:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Right.
00:56:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He becomes deeply interested and has many exceptional friendships with his customers. ah He takes the time he's one of the like, he is so rare and so amazing.
00:56:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He, he finds it fuels him. And to have those friendships, take he has a customer base that is not too large, but but just large enough that he can interact with so many of those customers and forge like deep, meaningful friendships with them, and it fuels him. And that's an amazing business model, and he takes the time to get to know each of them.
00:57:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now, he's got, you know I don't know how many that is, but it's doable you know because it's it's maybe two planes a month or three planes a month. or you You know what I mean?
00:57:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
00:57:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's something around the order of, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 a year. It's not thousands you know tens of thousands like you know in the content creation world. um So my next question is more turning the page. I feel like we've adequately explored like the space of of how each of us feels like our own experience and some of the pros and cons and some of the paradoxical findings of what it means to to do what we do. But let's come to the topic of what do you do about it?
00:57:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like if you're feeling lonely, if you're feeling isolated, what do you do about it? So I thought of it this way, Sam, I'm walking into your, um walk you're a therapist, you are, right? Like Sam, PhD therapist, I walk into your office and I say, Sam, you know, ah had this
00:58:10
Sam
so rusty
Friendships and Connections in Creative Work
00:58:11
Sam
ok you going
00:58:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I no, just just ah listen, I'm a maker artist and I'm alone a lot because I have to be, and you know, obviously, you know, doing what I do, making the things I make requires me to be alone.
00:58:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I'm feeling that solitude often turns the corner into feelings of isolation or loneliness. um And it's it's really dragging me down. what are Can you help me kind of wrap my head around this?
00:58:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What are some solutions?
00:58:37
Sam
I'm so rusty,
00:58:37
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I can answer that question for Sam because in my experience, whenever I bring that question to her, she just opens a bottle of tequila and hands it to me.
00:58:40
Sam
okay.
00:58:48
Sam
I mean, actually, so that's not wrong.
00:58:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Aside? Aside from self soothing with substance, Eric. ah Sam, what what what would you say to that person?
00:58:58
Sam
Yeah, I mean, I think this goes back to the community conversation, right? I think the beautiful thing about what we all do is that there is a community of people who get what we do. And I think it's so important to tap into that, right? And look, like I, yes, there are other makers on Long Island that are within 30 minutes of me right but you know and they're part of my community yes but i think in in the broader way of looking at this like i have maker friends that i genuinely love spending time with who are all over the country and just because they're not physically here like doesn't mean i can't tap into that right and so in times that i would say to pete anybody like in times that you're feeling like isolated or lonely or you just want to like balance ideas like
00:59:42
Sam
Pick up the phone and call one of the people in your community like we all get it. We all get it We're all in this together like what's that that high school musical song right like we're all in this together I'm making you watch that movie next time I see you and you're gonna hate every second of it and I can't wait to
00:59:54
YYEEEeeeeeRik
and i I feel like I can speak for Paul when I say that I don't know that song and we don't know that song.
01:00:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Is that Zach? Is that is that the Zach guy?
01:00:06
Sam
Oh yeah, it is, let's go. But for real, that's what it is. We all get it. We all, at some point in our lives, work in isolation. And because of that, we have this common denominator where we can just talk about it openly and pick up the phone and be like, Eric, I'm going crazy today, sitting in my shop by myself. And he's like, I feel you, dude. I did that last week. And then we just bullshit for an hour. And then we both feel better.
01:00:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:00:34
Sam
it I don't know, just the community aspect and having friends who do what you do and get it is just like so invaluable.
01:00:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, yeah
01:00:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, you know, that is something I, Eric, you and I have talked about this before about prioritizing people and friendships. And I love to cite this, but as you know, I'm a scientist. So I believe the data, the Harvard study of adult, the Harvard study of adult development, if you haven't heard about it, you should.
01:00:57
Sam
Same. Mm-hmm.
01:01:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that we talked about it once before, but I'll bring it up again.
01:01:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I totally remember.
01:01:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The longest, the longest running study in, in like the history of psychology, I think probably 85 something years like that, which means like the investigators, like who got the grant.
01:01:09
Sam
It's great.
01:01:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and and proposed the study like lived and died during the study and they had to find the next group of people who thought that was a compelling enough argument to like pick up that study and continue it and run and like multi generations of scientists thought this was an important enough question and the question was what is the most common denominator of self-reported contentedness or happiness in humans across men women across age groups and the number one answer is
01:01:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's fucking amazing.
01:01:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Close, meaningful friendships and relationships with other humans.
01:01:51
Sam
and relationships. Yep. Yep.
01:01:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mm.
01:01:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And there's no, you can't argue against that. I'm sorry, this is data driven. This isn't opinion driven. This is data driven.
01:02:00
Sam
I love data driven.
01:02:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like that, right?
01:02:01
Sam
I'm such a data nerd. Like give me all the data. Oh, man.
01:02:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like that's the finding. And it took 85 years to come to this conclusion. 85 years of data collection to come to that.
01:02:11
Sam
I came to that conclusion and in two years of doing this full time. I'm just gonna say Harvard like come on.
01:02:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
these They should've just asked you, Sam.
01:02:17
Sam
like
01:02:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And actually, Sam, maybe you can you can, so I have a question about, so lately, in the last five to 10 years, I've noticed, like given i we know that about you know how close personal relationships and important friendships are, I've noticed a wave of like antisocial glamorization lately.
01:02:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see t-shirts that say, I only like my dog and maybe one other person, or I hate
01:02:42
Sam
I will say like anti-social social club has great branding though like I would totally rock that shirt even though I love being social.
01:02:47
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:02:49
Sam
i
01:02:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But it's like, ah you know, T-shirts that say, I hate people or just leave me alone. Like, and I see these things and I'm thinking, what the fuck? Like clearly you don't know the data.
01:03:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Clearly you're wrong because there's no arguing.
01:03:02
Sam
Oh my gosh. Should we just like hand them flyers? Like we keep flyers in our pocket and anytime we see one, it's just like, don't say anything. Just like hand them, hand them like a little summary of the data.
01:03:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
ah So that now now we're just missionaries for science? Is that what we've come to?
01:03:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So with Sam, what's up with that that antisocial glamorization?
01:03:16
Sam
Is this, this is my next goal. life
01:03:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Can you explain to me what's what's at play here?
01:03:21
Sam
I mean, I think that this is with like anything, right? In the sense of, I think there are always gonna be these things in life that are glamorized, right? Like hustle culture is a great example too.
01:03:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
01:03:30
Sam
Like if we're gonna compare it to something, I mean, this is a great example because for so long hustle culture was like the cool thing to do. It's so cool to like hustle your ass off and always work. And like, if you work hard and like good things happen.
01:03:41
Sam
And then all of a sudden, like a couple of years later, everyone's like hustle culture is so toxic, right? So like, I think that, I think that this is just one of those things. And yeah, I think alone time is important.
01:03:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
01:03:52
Sam
I think a lot of self-discovery happens from doing things alone and looking inward and sitting with your uncomfortable thoughts about like how much you might hate or love yourself, right? like That is just part of growing as a human.
01:04:03
Sam
But I don't know. like i relationships with other people are just so important and I think sometimes I also think sometimes it's a comfort thing like a lot of people are a little comfortable just living in their bubble like doing their thing and this brings me comfort and especially in an age of social media and we're seeing a lot like you know there's data with this too like we're seeing this a lot in younger generations of kids who are having a hard time communicating their feelings or
01:04:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
01:04:28
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Mmm.
01:04:29
Sam
Are having a hard time like like delay of gratification is a big thing like they want answers now because their brain is wired to look at a 60 second video that tells them how the world works right and so.
01:04:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
01:04:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:04:40
Sam
When you get to this point sometimes where that just becomes your comfort zone it's so hard to break out of that and I think for people who love. I think we all love scrolling through social media, but I think for people who kind of use it almost as a crutch in a sense of like, let me just like doom scroll my life away type deal. That is
Social Media: Community or Harm?
01:05:00
Sam
their solitary time where they are being fed an algorithm that tells them that like being solitary is the thing to do. And that's cool when people suck, right? And they're being fed these videos that feed into that. But the reality is, is that.
01:05:16
Sam
That can only take you so far, right? like As humans, we need other humans to survive.
01:05:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:05:21
Sam
It's it's literally science.
01:05:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Such a good answer, Sam.
01:05:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All right. I'm going to ask you an off script question because I'm the agent of chaos on this podcast.
01:05:28
Sam
Love this.
01:05:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
But as as you're, as you're talking about this, like the
01:05:35
Sam
I already know what you're going to ask. Keep going.
01:05:38
YYEEEeeeeeRik
the the i I don't like the word toxicity a lot because it gets overused and a lot of things that are deemed as toxic are just like there are positive and negative aspects to it, but everything is is labeled to the extreme because it's easier to market that way.
01:05:53
Sam
Yeah.
01:06:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Social media clearly has some negative impacts on teenagers. um And I think from the way, from the conversation that just happened happened over the last six minutes, um what I kept hearing was the description of my high school experience from both of you.
01:06:17
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And it feels to me like maybe social media is just drawing us back into that social aspect of high school that is the worst experience of a lot of our lives.
01:06:27
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So how do you as a professional content creator, and I'm asking partially selfishly because this is a thing I sit with often, how do you deal with the fact that the thing that is providing you a living and the thing that has provided you a community.
01:06:39
Sam
Mm hmm. I should have bet my life savings you were gonna ask this question.
01:06:43
YYEEEeeeeeRik
also also could potentially be doing real harm to people.
01:06:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:06:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:06:48
Sam
Yeah, I sit with this a lot.
Balancing Content Authenticity and Deadlines
01:06:50
Sam
Um, I think a lot of it is about intention. Right. So for me, my intention as a content creator is to inspire and to educate and I find these moments sometimes where I'll do a project and then I watch the project back and I'm like, did I do this for vanity?
01:07:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
01:07:10
Sam
Like what about this is educational? What about this is inspirational? And sometimes, yeah,
01:07:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Or did you do it for a deadline? Like sometimes you just gotta to put a fucking video out.
01:07:17
Sam
ah like, yes. But then, but then it becomes a different conversation because we do this for a living. And now that I'm saying sell your soul, don't, but I'm saying like, yes, there are deadlines to what we do, but I still think you could be intentional about it.
01:07:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god, I love it Sam.
01:07:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sure.
01:07:30
Sam
Here's a great, okay, so here's a great example. Here's a great example. So a lot of what we see on YouTube or social media is very clickbaity, right? Like it's all about like, catching attention.
01:07:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:07:39
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sure.
01:07:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I struggle with that every fucking time I put out a video.
01:07:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god, I hate it.
01:07:44
Sam
And you know what you know it drives me?
01:07:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Ah.
01:07:45
Sam
And I know that this is like, this is what I should be doing because my videos would do so much better, but like the negative marketing of what you're doing, like, this is why you shouldn't do this. Like real woodworkers don't do this.
01:07:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:07:56
Sam
Like that, I, yeah, like things like that.
01:07:57
YYEEEeeeeeRik
The glue up was shocking. Like what?
01:08:00
Sam
Like, I don't know. I understand this part of marketing, but for me personally, and this is just a personal opinion, this is not me that command anybody, so like don't you dare at me about this. But no, my personal opinion is I always wanna feel like the content I'm putting out is doing something positive. And so there have been times, like I have recorded things for a brand and they've given me some sort of like, hey, can you hit these points? And then I record it and I listen to it back and I'm like,
01:08:29
Sam
No so then i'll go back and i'll record it in a way that it's more tutorial based or education based or like hey i'm doing this project that you're watching me build but i understand you might not have these tools to hear three other ways you can do this right.
01:08:35
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
01:08:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:08:43
Sam
I always try to very intentionally. put out content that even just slightly feels like I'm making a difference in somebody's life because I do think it's really easy to get caught up in that vanity of being like, I'm putting this out, watch me and praise me.
01:09:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sure, sure, sure.
01:09:00
Sam
you know No, I didn't take it that way.
01:09:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And and that's i I'm in no way am I suggesting that you do that. i I've never seen you do that. i No, but I suppose what I'm asking is like it's it's inevitable that the the content that we put out does both.
01:09:17
Sam
Yeah.
01:09:18
YYEEEeeeeeRik
like when When you're intentional about what you're doing, you will reach people and inspire them to do certain things, but it also, at the end of the day,
01:09:30
YYEEEeeeeeRik
is like an ad for dap or like I have a contract with shaper, like it's an ad for shaper.
01:09:33
Sam
Yes.
01:09:36
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like, so like, how do you, how do you deal with the ethical duality of like, this thing is paying for me to make things to inspire people to do things in their shop and show you how to do them and also can create this.
01:09:52
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like I've any, any video that I tag shaper in or feature them in, it spirals into a bunch of people being like CNC woodworking is not woodworking.
01:10:01
Sam
Okay, but let me let me reframe this for you. A, this is the answer, yes. Like do you organically use a shaper in your shop? The answer is obviously yes.
01:10:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:10:11
Sam
B, do you believe that other people would find value in having that tool in their shop?
01:10:16
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:10:16
Sam
Yes. And C, do you actually believe in the product?
01:10:20
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:10:20
Sam
Okay, so then what are you doing wrong?
01:10:22
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I don't know, this is just turning into a therapy session for me, so let's keep going.
01:10:25
Sam
No, but like for real, but like think about it, right? Like, okay, here's a great example, great example. Um, a company reached out to me. Um, it rhymes with like schmeder schmelp.
01:10:37
Sam
And, um, I, as a former therapist, do not agree with a lot of their practices. They were, I do not agree with, I send a text message.
01:10:46
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's weird because Schmetter Schmelt just reached out to me too, so I'm curious to hear where you're going with this.
01:10:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I can't fucking think of what Schmetter's Mel is.
01:10:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Are you fucking kidding me, dawg?
01:10:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I can't, but don't tell me later.
01:10:57
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's fine.
01:11:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I'll put it in the chat for you.
01:11:00
Sam
No, don't text him, FaceTime him. mute the Mute the mic, FaceTime him, and tell him what it is. um
01:11:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.
01:11:08
Sam
So as a former psychologist or current psychologist, I don't know where I am.
01:11:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Got it.
01:11:13
Sam
I'm in limbo. I'm having an identity crisis. But anyway, so there are just a lot of practices with that business that I just don't really agree with. And on top of that, ethically,
01:11:24
Sam
they should not be asking me to promote their business for a paycheck. There's just a lot of ethically wrong things with that.
01:11:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmmm.
01:11:30
Sam
And I've told them that before. um Anyway, so they reached out to me and they were dangling a very, very large paycheck in front of me to be like, can you do an ad for our company?
01:11:42
Sam
And I was like, hell no, I'm not doing an ad for your company. I don't care how much money you dangle in front of my face. I do not believe in your ethics or your practices.
01:11:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:11:49
Sam
I'm not going to share that. um And I don't know.
01:11:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Good for you, Sam.
01:11:53
Sam
i just You have to have those moments though, where you're like, this is not something that I drive with, I don't align with this, so I am not gonna share it no matter how much money they give me.
01:12:04
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yeah
01:12:05
Sam
That is my personal preference. I know that's not every, look, I also know Financially, people are in different spots, and sometimes they just need to like take the thing that pays the bills, and I get that too. like We all need to eat and survive and have ruse over our head, and that's cool. For me personally, the way that I deal with exactly what you're talking about, which is like that ethical kind of dilemma of how do I show up in a way that doesn't feel icky, like that is, for me, my line in the sand.
01:12:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:12:35
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I think it's a great line in the sand to draw.
01:12:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:12:38
Sam
Yeah.
01:12:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So go ahead there.
01:12:38
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Go ahead.
01:12:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, go ahead.
01:12:41
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I was just going to say I had a ah similar moment with, um we'll call them shmoam shmeepo. um and
01:12:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That one I, that one I know.
01:12:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
01:12:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And it's
01:12:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
not an ethical later. It was just the way that that particular project was set up. I was like, I can't, I can't go forward with this. And I actually, I signed the contract and then and actually canceled the contract. Um, and even though that is a ah moment of like, and I really, I really want this money. Cause it, it wasn't, it was at the time easily the biggest contract I ever signed. Um,
01:13:27
YYEEEeeeeeRik
i I'm not, I don't know. This is just sounding like I'm patting myself on the back now, but like the sitting with those important questions, having a long-term viewpoint, I think is a really, really important thing to do and not just worrying about like the next quarter, but worrying about what the next 10 years looks like.
01:13:37
Sam
Yeah.
01:13:46
Sam
Yeah. And look, as business owners, it's hard. It's hard because you do. like You have to think about all of the factors. You need to think about like how you're going to continue to keep your business alive financially, how you're going to continue to keep yourself alive financially.
01:13:59
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:00
Sam
like These are all things that you have to grapple with as business owners. And again, like everybody has different priorities. And whatever your priority is, like that's cool. like That's on you, right? But yeah, I i will say I'm in Eric's school of thought here where sometimes I'm like,
01:14:14
Sam
Am I part of the problem or am I trying to combat the problem or maybe it's a little bit of both and like I really do sit with myself and think about those things a lot.
Personal Benefits and Drawbacks of Social Media
01:14:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, just briefly, I have, I mean, we're talking at a 10,000 foot view about, you know, whether social media is a value add or a value detract, is it, you know, ah feeding off of us as an audience or or giving to us as an audience. And I don't obviously have this, the the conversation you're both having about contracts and and endorsement deals, I don't really have that. But what I do have is,
01:14:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, what I do think about is, is it taking life away from me and it's taking me out of the present? Or is it feeding me?
01:14:56
Sam
Hmm.
01:14:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it's both. It takes me away from being present with my family, being present with myself, working in the shop. But at the same time, ah so much of my time on Instagram is not scrolling.
01:15:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's not doom scrolling. It's talking to friends. So
01:15:11
Sam
Yeah.
01:15:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you know You know, people love to demonize social media, and I'm the first to do it as well. And i've i've I have a a teenage daughter who I worry about immensely with social media. But at the same time, I'd be a fool to say it hasn't been literally life-changing and a huge value add.
01:15:29
Sam
100%.
01:15:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, it's why we're on this podcast, right? like
01:15:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Dude, it's why we're on this podcast.
01:15:35
Sam
Yeah.
01:15:37
YYEEEeeeeeRik
The woman I'm literally about to marry I met on Instagram. So, you know?
01:15:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, right?
01:15:41
Sam
Yeah.
01:15:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And if Eric hadn't dogged me about my cutting boards, all those years ago.
01:15:47
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Like, those are pretty shit. I feel like you can do better.
01:15:50
Sam
I don't know, I always say if it wasn't for Instagram, I don't think I'd really have ah have the chance to do this full time because it was my Instagram community that convinced me to do a YouTube channel and convinced me to get on TikTok and convinced me to like that like when I signed my Ford deal, I can't tell you how many people were just so freaking stoked about it.
01:15:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:16:10
Sam
like
01:16:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yeah
01:16:12
Sam
like tens of thousands of people sharing and like like just so excited celebrating those things with me.
01:16:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:16:18
Sam
And like, it I really mean it. If it wasn't for Instagram, I do not think I'd be able to do this.
01:16:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I guess the bottom line is you have to find the right community. That's a value add.
01:16:26
Sam
Yes, 100%.
01:16:27
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah, yeah.
01:16:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:16:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So ah speaking of sponsorships, we have a sponsorship from our our dear friend, Bill Burkle over at WTB woodworking.
Essential Hand Tools for Beginners
01:16:40
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And what yeah he and I were having a conversation the other day.
01:16:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And I want to get both of your opinions on this. So he's trying to bring in hand tools into the store and wants to have some kind of baseline of, you know, what, what are the hand tools that like, if somebody were to come in and be like, Hey, I need all of the basic hand tools to be able to start making furniture. Let's just say they have the basic machines, right? They have a table saw, maybe they have a lunchbox plan or whatever the thing is garage shop.
01:17:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
What are the hand tools I need to start making furniture? So we had a conversation, you know, good 20, 30 minute conversation, and I want to know. What do you guys think are the basic hand tools that somebody who's starting to build furniture would need?
01:17:27
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And the reason I think that Sam is the perfect fit for this is because she's going to have a viciously different opinion than Paul and I, who I think will have your really similar opinions.
01:17:37
Sam
I wish I had a video of your face when you looked at the chisels in my shop when you we came to visit because it was just like I wish it was a painting on the wall of my workshop.
01:17:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
first
01:17:46
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So I think I already said this episode that we did the dovetails, right? And I, and I emotionally damaged Sam for the rest of her life.
01:17:53
Sam
Why are you reminding? Why are you reminding? Why are you bringing this up? Polynotherapy.
01:17:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So, so Sam, let's put dovetails aside. Let's pretend like you never cut dovetails and never will again.
01:18:06
Sam
but you
01:18:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
If you were to collect a ah beginner's budget of hand tools that you were like, this is what people need to start building furniture. What would that absolute basic kit look like?
01:18:17
Sam
I don't know. I just need chisels. Just give me chisels. Like it's all I need in life.
01:18:22
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's a great answer.
01:18:23
Sam
Just give me chisels.
01:18:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:18:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
You got chisels, you got chisels in a table saw.
01:18:27
Sam
Yeah, that's it. That's all I have in my shop. There's chisels on the table. So no chisels for sure. I think like a good pull saw is good too.
01:18:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:18:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Okay.
01:18:35
Sam
Yeah.
01:18:36
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All right. Paul, can you do better than that?
01:18:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:18:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:18:40
Sam
He can do much better.
01:18:41
Sam
Why are you asking if he can?
01:18:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, it's not like let's not compare.
01:18:43
Sam
You already know he can.
01:18:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Look, we talked about comparisons being the the basis for feelings of isolation and loneliness. So I'm not going to do comparisons.
01:18:50
Sam
Eric, if you don't stop, I'm going to switch out your chisels with my chisels next time I come to Philly. like
01:18:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. um I think there's like four, there's like four things that I can think of as like sort of basic, like true it's essential basics.
01:18:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I don't believe you.
01:19:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, okay.
01:19:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
A nice set of chisels, at least four, because if you just get one, you're fuck you're fucking frustrated.
01:19:09
YYEEEeeeeeRik
o
01:19:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's too big, it's too little.
01:19:14
Sam
That's fair, that's fair.
01:19:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah Okay, so at least a set of four chisels and decent steel.
01:19:15
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:19:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
If they're total garbage, they're gonna get dull and you're gonna get angry and you're not gonna wanna sharpen them.
01:19:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Totally, Sam, right?
01:19:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I mean,
01:19:26
Sam
They're supposed to be, I mean, mine are supposed to be crappy, I just ruined them.
01:19:29
YYEEEeeeeeRik
yours are Yours are wedges. Let's call it what it is, Sam.
01:19:32
Sam
Yeah, that's true.
01:19:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sam, I'm trying to like keep him off you on this chisel hole thing, but I'm not doing well.
01:19:38
Sam
It's fine, this is love right here. this This is how we tell each other we love each other, okay?
01:19:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, so ah decent ah a decent set of four chisels made of decent steel.
01:19:43
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It's true.
01:19:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It doesn't have to be top of the line, but it just can be good, you know? um Next up, a card scraper.
01:19:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, interesting. Okay.
01:19:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
A card, it's so cheap. It's just literally a piece of metal and you put a burr on it it.
01:20:01
YYEEEeeeeeRik
It is 10, 15 bucks.
01:20:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I use it,
01:20:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yeah.
01:20:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I use it every single day. I have 100, like I probably have 100 different scrapers of different shapes and sizes and I use them constantly and they're so cheap. They're like, take an old saw you find at a at a dumb flea market. and old Any old distant hand saw, like anything, right? And take that to like a metal cutting band saw and cut yourself some scrapers. You don't even to have to buy them if you don't want. Any kind of spring steel will be fine.
01:20:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that's number two. Number three is a single hand plane and number four. Let's not get too complicated.
01:20:35
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Number four, okay.
01:20:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Let's let's not get too complicated. Number five, a jack plane. Number three, a bevel up, blah, blah, blah. You know, all the companies want you to buy 50 billion different hand planes. I mean, you can, and I have many myself, but if you're just starting out, get a number four, okay?
01:20:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Do yourself a favor. Bevel down, number four, good old fashioned Stanley. Last but not least, Oh, but but by the way, it doesn't have to be a Stanley.
01:20:57
Sam
I'm sold.
01:20:58
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Sam, right?
01:20:58
Sam
I'm sold. yeah That was compelling.
01:21:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It doesn't have to be a Stanley. It can be any brand, but like that size is probably the most, you know, versatile, I would say. And the fourth thing is some kind of saw, whether it's a Western style push saw or the Japanese pull saw, like Sam and I prefer.
01:21:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hmm.
01:21:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Eric, do you have a preference on that?
01:21:19
YYEEEeeeeeRik
I prefer a Western style just because that's what I learned on, but I have both pull and push and and I use them interchangeably.
01:21:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. Okay, so those are the four. ah So what was the first?
01:21:31
Sam
Chisels.
01:21:31
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Chisel.
01:21:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Chisels.
01:21:32
Sam
Really good steel chisels.
01:21:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
car yeah
01:21:34
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Really good. A set of 12.
01:21:36
Sam
Nothing I would have in my shop, which is totally fine.
01:21:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Set of four. Chisels, card scraper, number four hand plane and some kind of saw. That that to me is your is your starting.
01:21:43
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Okay, that's that's interesting. I sell my initial list was I changed out the card scraper for the spokeshave. But I think the the card scraper is a really good poll, I would up mine to to five and include the card scraper because there's inevitably going to be things that you can't plane.
01:22:03
YYEEEeeeeeRik
or or just like, whatever, you need to get out, you know, one square inch of material in in one area.
01:22:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
01:22:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
So card scraper is a good pull. I would add the spokeshave there because, um, the second that you start doing curved work, you're going to do both concave and convex and having a spokeshave in there to to play around with some edges.
01:22:23
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's going to be a big pull. Um, other than that I can't think like maybe it doesn't really count as hand tools but like two throw away clamps and I mean like it could be a hand screw which I think is an underrated clamp um or just something that you can create like a oh quick plane stop with just something, something, just something you don't give a shit about beating up.
01:22:49
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And it's not like a 36 inch, you know, bar clamp, cabinet clamp, etc, e etc. Something that you can beat the hell out of. Other than that, I think Paul, I think you
Appreciation and Closing Remarks
01:23:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
crushed it, buddy.
01:23:00
YYEEEeeeeeRik
And Sam, definitely your Stanley chisels um are on the list.
01:23:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thanks buddy.
01:23:05
Sam
So is it okay if I beat up all my tools? Because they're well-loved, okay?
01:23:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, I don't, maybe we should, maybe we should talk about this a little in the after show about like, whether tools are precious and we should like be, you know, waxing our table saw every day, or if we should just fucking treat them like our little bitch.
01:23:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yes, yes.
01:23:18
Sam
No, definitely not.
01:23:21
YYEEEeeeeeRik
a
01:23:24
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Treat them like our little bitch.
01:23:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, all right. So we're, we're at the, the hour 20 Mark.
01:23:26
Sam
Yeah.
01:23:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Uh, I do want to say, you know, thank you to ah Pablo Garcia, Evan Pasco.
01:23:33
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Oh, also, i I just want to say thank you to WTB woodworking and remind that that that was in fact in ad read carry on.
01:23:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. Uh, and Eric, you said he, the the reason we'll ask that.
01:23:44
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yes, he he is having ah hand tools in the shop probably by this time this episode comes out.
01:23:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So he was wondering, what should he stock? Is that okay?
01:23:53
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Yes, yes.
01:23:54
Sam
All of the above.
01:23:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All of the above.
01:23:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, well, ah hopefully you got all those, those, those five tools we mentioned. If not, well.
01:24:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
If he doesn't, Chaz will.
01:24:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Chad, not Chaz.
01:24:06
YYEEEeeeeeRik
God damn it. It's fine.
01:24:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jesus Christ, Eric.
01:24:09
Sam
Wow, Eric, geez.
01:24:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, I want to thank our patrons, Pablo Garcia, Evan Pasco, and James Castellino, who have joined since the the last time. ah If you enjoy these topics that we actually spend quite a bit of time thinking about and working on before the show, please consider joining our Patreon.
01:24:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You'll get access to the video feed, as well as the after show, depending on the tier you join. But we would appreciate your support. um So wrapping up, we hope you enjoyed today's episode on, of course meeting Sam, of course.
01:24:40
Sam
I hope I didn't scare anybody away.
01:24:41
YYEEEeeeeeRik
God damn hero.
01:24:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, Sam, you were amazing. Sam, really? Some of the things you said, i I just had the biggest smile on my face because you were like speaking directly to my soul. You had like a one-way ticket to the soul.
01:24:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Excellent.
01:24:54
Sam
Oh my god, that's like the best compliment anybody's ever given me.
01:24:55
YYEEEeeeeeRik
what one way One way ticket to the soul is definitely an emo band from the early aughts, right?
01:24:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh. No, no, when you, no, when
01:25:01
Sam
Do I need to put that on my resume?
01:25:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i have a one way take
01:25:06
Sam
Is that going on my LinkedIn tomorrow? Okay. Forget PhD after my signature on my email.
01:25:10
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's, I want my ticket to the soul.
01:25:13
Sam
That's going on my signature.
01:25:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so speaker
01:25:16
YYEEEeeeeeRik
That's the name of this episode.
01:25:16
Sam
Wow. Oh my God.
01:25:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
She's a soul whisperer. Okay, so yeah Sam, um some of the things you said about like intention being the guiding principle between social media being good, or about like amazing points top to bottom, and especially your points about reaching out to people when they feel lonely or isolated, all amazing.
01:25:21
Sam
This is the best day ever. heard
01:25:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We hope you enjoyed today's discussion on this topic. I think it's something everyone who is an artist or maker can relate to because making an artistry doesn't really happen when you're in a huge group and not typically.
01:25:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It typically requires some solitude. So I think this topic was very relatable for a lot of listeners and we hope you enjoyed it. If you want to hear more, hold on for the for the after show.
01:26:02
YYEEEeeeeeRik
You can join the after show where we're going to talk about something.
01:26:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thank you, Sam. Thank you so much.
01:26:08
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Thanks, Sam.
01:26:08
Sam
This was great. Thank you guys.
01:26:11
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Hell yes.
01:26:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we'll see you all later.
01:26:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
All right, friends.
01:26:14
Sam
Bye.
01:26:14
YYEEEeeeeeRik
Bye.
01:26:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and Bye.