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Missy Bunch on Eye Movements, Pain, Trauma, Neural Training and More!
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In this episode, we sit down with movement expert Missy Bunch to explore the deep connection between neurology, movement, and overall health. We begin by rethinking movement, challenging traditional fitness perspectives and highlighting a more integrative approach to physical well-being.
Missy explains how neurology and movement are deeply connected, shedding light on how the brain influences movement patterns and vice versa. This leads us into a discussion on pain—what it really is, why it happens, and how we can rethink our approach to managing it.
We also explore the relationship between trauma and movement, diving into how unresolved trauma can manifest in the body and how movement can play a role in healing. Missy then shares insights on training the neural system, including the impact of eye movement on performance, balance, and recovery.
To wrap up, we discuss the subtle but powerful connections in health, revealing how small changes in movement, awareness, and mindset can create profound shifts in well-being.
This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to optimize their movement, understand pain, or explore the brain-body connection. Tune in!
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Transcript
Introduction to Beyond Training Podcast
00:00:01
Beyond Terrain
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Beyond Training Podcast. I'm your host, Liam Dalton. Today, we're going to have a fantastic episode about a topic that I love, movement, and tying into a really interesting topic, neurology. So super looking forward to this. If you're new around here, consider following the show or subscribing. And if you like the show, give us a rating or review, comment as well if you're on YouTube.
00:00:22
Beyond Terrain
A like is all that stuff. Sharing is always the best way to get the word out there and help us grow and and help support the show. So all that would be much appreciated.
Missy Bunch's Journey into Neurology and Movement
00:00:31
Beyond Terrain
ah We have a fantastic guest. that We were just chatting there before the show and such a great energy already. I'm i'm really looking forward to this. We have Missy Bunch on. ah Thank you so much for coming on and and for your time.
00:00:42
Missy
You're so welcome. I'm so excited to contribute to your community and just hang out with you.
00:00:48
Beyond Terrain
Yeah. Great. So the first question I ask all my guests, I asked them to define health, what health means to you. ah You can take it in any direction that you'd like, you know, what does it look like?
00:00:58
Beyond Terrain
How do you attain health? You know, kind of more formal definition, whatever you'd like.
00:01:00
Missy
o
00:01:02
Beyond Terrain
So I'll give you the floor and and we'll take it from there.
00:01:05
Missy
Oh, thank you. I love that question. I love when a question makes me take a breath and just reflect for a second. um To me, health really is having freedom.
00:01:18
Missy
to do what you want to do with your body and feel what you want to feel in your body. I think many of us, you would be a rare gem if this hasn't happened to you, but some of us, most of us have felt like a prisoner in our body at one point or another in our lives. And just the thought of this could bring me to my knees because I have had many dark low places where my body was not cooperating and doing things I wasn't expecting or not recovering at the speed I wanted and all the things. So to me, health is freedom.
Understanding Health and Pain Perception
00:02:03
Beyond Terrain
That is a beautiful way to answer that question. And I really love when it takes that direction, right? Because it's so, it implies that health is so individual too, right? It's the freedom to do what what aligns with your values and your being and your journey, right? So, and that looks different for everybody, right? We're all in different situations and ah yeah, that's that's really nice. um I'd really love to know a little bit about your story there, you know, like coming into,
00:02:31
Beyond Terrain
tying in neurology and movement together and kind of what those have done for you and on your path ah of healing and just your journey in general.
00:02:41
Missy
Man, so, you know, I was a little, I'm not gonna say teeny bopper, because I wasn't that young, but I was, you know, I was in my early 20s, I'm turning 40 this year. And neurology appeared into my life when I was ah identifying with a knee injury that I had, it had become who I was, I was a knee injury, right? And I met a woman who had taken a class called Z Health. And this was so oh long ago that you would put a CD in your car to listen to music. And all the young people are like, I don't even know what you're talking about. But um you used to put a CD into your car when you had that. It was like a podcast at that time, but you bought like a Tony Robbins CD, right? And you'd play it and I call it car university when you're learning things in your car. but
00:03:31
Missy
She came up to me, she said, hey, i was I was listening to this education system and they were talking about pain and how there's this thing called opposing joints where your right arm swings with your left leg during gait and how they work together. And that's how people walk. Like no one walks with the right arm and the right leg and then the left arm with the left leg. Like no one walks. And it was one of those moments where I am i am obsessively, admittedly, you know, I'm just obsessed with movement and humans and just everything that has to do with people. And it was one of those times where she said that and it made sense to me. I thought, that is logical. I like what you're saying. It it makes sense to me that the right arm moves with the left leg. And then I moved my body and I was like, wow, that really is how it works. And she said, so,
00:04:30
Missy
Let's give your right elbow a go for your left knee pain. I'm sorry, what? OK. um I'm four years in to trying to fix this knee pain. Not a single professional could help me. And I hired every person you could possibly list off on a piece of paper that could help someone with knee pain. I didn't miss a repetition of rehab. I was doing acupuncture, cold therapy, hot therapy.
00:04:58
Missy
um Chinese herbs, I was doing urine samples, stool samples, physical, therapy I mean, I was, I was relentless, right? And this knee pain wouldn't leave. I do a couple movements with my right elbow. Take a step and my knee pain is gone.
00:05:17
Missy
I'm pausing on purpose because I want everyone to feel the emotions that could arise when you've had four years of an issue that literally made you alter the direction of your life and then someone's like move your elbow a couple times and then that pain goes away. I have visceral reactions while I'm telling this story and I was i was relieved, I was shocked, I was surprised, I was grateful, but mostly I was angry that it worked. I was not happy about this experience because I was just left with, if I didn't know this and I'm a movement freak, what is the regular average Joe going to do when their knee hurts?
00:06:08
Missy
That's what I was pissed at. I was pissed at like the globalness of it, the the humanity aspect of someone who's obsessed with movement didn't know this. so Clearly someone who has no idea what's going on with the human body is never going to come across this information. so I basically make it my life mission. I kind of just declared from my heart and soul and mind and body and everything in between, I'm going to teach this to everyone I meet.
00:06:32
Missy
for the rest of my life and I don't care, there will be nothing that stops me. And I still am that that to this day. you know you can't You can't hang out with me and me not talk about something with your body. right like It's not really possible. I mean, maybe. But that's the journey that took me down this very, very narrow path that not that many people are on. It sounds a little bit weird. And especially at that time, it was very weird.
00:07:01
Missy
Now it's 2025. Odd conversations are a little bit more like accepted. So I don't feel as weird, but back in my 20s, I had no confidence. i was ah I'm 411. I'm very small, like literally. I'm a physically small person. I was always in a male-dominated industry. Everyone's like bench pressing, and I'm over here having clients doing eye exercises. I mean, it was you have to have a level of secureness inside to be able to pursue this path. So, you know, still to this day, I'm like, well, if I would have known that when I was at the peak of my professional dance career, what could have happened? What if I was like, what if I could have been famous for dance? You know, like, I don't know what could have unlocked if I knew neurology. But I didn't. And this was my path. And this was my
Exploring Simple Neurological Techniques
00:07:56
Missy
journey. And now I'm here to share the story of
00:07:58
Missy
how powerful, very, very, very simple techniques can be. And they're so simple that they're not widely accepted, right? Because people want rehab to be complex and complicated and grueling and sexy. And I'm over here like, can you move your tongue?
00:08:23
Missy
And you either want to hear about that or you don't, you know, but to me, I follow the anatomy. I watch the results. I'm 14 years. Oh, I'm 15 years into this journey now. And it's been a beautiful, beautiful ride.
00:08:37
Beyond Terrain
Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. That's, that's amazing. I think it's so cool that from such a simple little observation that the left arm swings with the right leg, you know, it's so simple, but one thing that like, that I've kind of been learning along my way too, is that often health is simple, you know, we tend to overcomplicate these things, right? So I really appreciate ah your point of view on that. You know, the other thing that You know, it's kind of more hits close to home with kind of my field and what I'm doing is identifying with your injury or your ailment, right? And it becoming kind of your identity. Like you mentioned feeling like a knee injury. I think that's, that's a, like a really common thing. People identify that they're somebody who has Crohn's disease or they are this, they are that, right? And just that, you know, almost like that brick wall that our mind puts up.
00:09:34
Beyond Terrain
you know, kind of not allowing us to heal or or something like that. And what stuck out to me is that you learned about this interesting way of looking about things and your mind kind of had to switch gears and look at things in a different light. And then it kind of like unlocked this whole other chapter, right? Where you had to almost redefine your own identity, right? Because you weren't a knee injury anymore, right? So I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that anger and stuff came from that too, right? Trying to be like, well, i I've been this for four years, right? and Um, so I think that's really, really amazing. Like just, um, how you came about that. And I completely agree. Like I've been, you know, I love movement. I love, I, you know, I started out going to the gym as a little 15 year old who wanted to get juiced and, you know, do bench press all the time. Right. That's how it always starts, I guess. But, um, yeah, you know, I am just coming into this whole idea of tying neurology with movement. It's such a fascinating thing.
00:10:30
Beyond Terrain
And not enough people know about it and not enough people are talking about it, but people like you are. And I think that's really, really important. It's changed my whole way of thinking about movement, right? And it, but it's again, so simple and so obvious, right? Our nervous system dictates all of our movement. It's so interconnected, right? Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, no, that's great. So moving like, like, like into this idea of,
00:11:01
Beyond Terrain
adding neurology into movement. You mentioned eye movements, tongue movements. It kind of allows for this more holistic way of, of looking at movement in a way. What would you agree with that?
00:11:13
Missy
I 100% agree with that.
00:11:16
Beyond Terrain
Yeah. Yeah. So like how, like, how do you go about in like adding in all of these subtleties of the body, like moving your tongue and your eyes and how do you even start incorporating this kind of stuff into your movement practice.
00:11:33
Missy
um You mean personally how how would you or with a client?
00:11:37
Beyond Terrain
The listener as well, we could probably learn a lot from from how you did it as well too, right?
00:11:41
Missy
Oh, right. So if, okay, so yeah, if we're talking at it from more of a general population perspective, how do you begin? That's a great question. You know, I would start with very simple things like education, because education alone can and will change the pain experience.
00:12:04
Beyond Terrain
Mm.
00:12:05
Missy
Period. And I think that's a huge missing in my community is I know more than you. You need to hire me. And I'm like, there's a $12 book on Amazon called Why Do I Hurt? You should buy that. and And learn it for your yourself. It might be $17. But you know, it's called Why Do I Hurt? It explains pain very clearly to the general population. um and And just starting with that will allow for the window of opportunity to open so that the person feels empowered from themselves and it's generated from their curiosity and not a told you so or I know more than you. it's
00:12:53
Missy
It's no, look, look read read this. it's it's this time It probably has 20 pages. It's a small, small little teaching book. But if your body is in fight or flight and threatened by its environment, you cannot perform. So we'll start with education first, understanding what pain actually is. Pain does not equal injury and injury does not equal pain.
00:13:22
Missy
Right? And that concept alone, that that statement right there could change someone's life. There's a doctor, his name was Dr. James. He's out in Florida. He worked with professional pitchers, baseball players. And he was so sick of doing these surgeries and he wanted to make a point. So he started doing imaging on these shoulders. And 90% of the players that went through the scans had operable damage to their tissue. Zero complaints of pain.
00:13:58
Missy
So what does that tell us about pain? Right? I mean, I have chills. I wish you guys could see my goosebumps under my sweater, but I have goosebumps from head to toe because These types of, they're small little stories, but they are profound. When you hear that, oh, their tissue under an image will show you, you should operate on me. But you talk to the athlete and they're like, what? I don't have any pain. I'm crushing it. I'm at the peak of my career, right? Same thing with herniated discs, bulging discs, all the things. So now I'm on a tangent. I forgot what the question was. Oh, how do you start? so
00:14:35
Missy
First education, and I just mean low barrier, low hanging fruit, just like what is pain really, just really low stuff. And then probably simple, less weird things to start with would be breath work.
00:14:49
Missy
because we can all agree that that is researched enough and studied enough and there's enough professionals and there's enough science to where I think that might be a pretty good low barrier, high compliance for the client to go like, okay, I agree with you. I think I will try some breathing. And for me, I come at it from a totally different angle in my brain, but I might not explain it to them that way from a neuro. I'd be like,
00:15:14
Missy
vagus nerve, diaphragm, phrenic nerve, cervical, right? The cervical have the phrenic nerve. The phrenic nerve controls the diaphragm. Diaphragm has a neural correlation to upper trap. I would be doing this whole neural thing in my head, but I would just say to them, hey, let's try some long exhales and just reassess your discomfort after that. And 99.9% of the time, it is going to be better just from breathing.
00:15:42
Missy
To them, they're just breathing. To you and I, it was a whole very well thought out, educationally, you know, picked out reason that I chose, longer exhales for vagus nerve stimulation to get to the parasympathetics and the whole, right? It goes on and on. Breathwork is probably the easiest way to get to someone into the conversation.
The Psychological Dimension of Movement and Pain
00:16:08
Beyond Terrain
Yeah, you know, this is really hitting home for me, right? Because I tie a lot of this into kind of the psychotherapy side of things, right? And the the importance of movement for mental health, and you're explaining it perfectly bang on why movement and breath work and things like this help, right? And oftentimes it is a flight or flight issue. It's very interesting that you're tying in pain to this idea as well. I know you started on that tangent. I want you to keep going. What is pain?
00:16:39
Missy
Okay, so I learned this from Dr. Cobb from Z health. And he, you know, we all have our big mentors, like top five, probably. But to me, he's like this immortal, God type person where, you know, when I first heard him talk, I was just over ... I just ... How are you a real person? I don't even know if he is. He might be an alien, um which I'm totally fine with. But he you know he would read ... He was like, oh yeah, I just you know read 100 studies a day on ... I'm sorry. What did you just say? Did you did you just say you read 100 studies per day? I thought he was going to finish the sentence with a year.
00:17:22
Missy
And he said per day and I was like, okay, I am a flea. So um he, his teachings say this, pain is a signal to do something different.
00:17:38
Missy
Period. End of story. So I kind of think of it like this. You have a pain signal in your elbow and you can say, okay, this is a signal to do something different.
00:17:51
Missy
This doesn't mean I have tennis elbow. This doesn't mean I have an ulnar nerve injury. This doesn't mean I hurt my tissue, soft or hard tissue. Let's take a breath. Pain is a signal to do something different. So I teach my clients and people and colleagues, okay, thank you for sharing. I'm so glad my body and brain are working properly to send me a pain signal.
00:18:19
Missy
If we didn't have a pain signal, that would not be good. We would not want that, right? My sisters had brain surgery. She could put her hand on a hot stove and not know it, right? Because she has a compromised brain. She had surgery in her brainstem. She's not going to receive the pain signal. This is not a good thing. We want the pain signal. So it's like, thank you for sharing. Now I will do something different.
00:18:46
Missy
and it's ah it's an appreciation rather than a fear of. I'm so grateful to know that pain is a signal, right? So if I'm out and about doing something crazy, I have a four and a two year old. Life is wild, okay? You're always like saving someone's head from hitting a curb or like catching a ball or a Barbie stabbing someone in their ear. Like it's all crazy, right? And you know, I'll get, let's like say I get a weird twinge in my left knee, which is which was was my quote unquote bad knee.
00:19:17
Missy
And I take a breath and I pause and I say, thank you for the signal to do something different. And then I reassess and it's totally fine. But if I went into a spiral of, that's my bad knee. That's my bad knee. What happened? Did I tear it? Is my ACL, MCL, meniscus okay? do i just ropa And now we're increasing and now I'm breathing into my clavicles and scalenes and sending off, hey, something's wrong, something's wrong. It's, you know, so we are in control and that's where that educational piece comes in, right? If you say to someone, pain is a signal to do something different, they can come from a place of being empowered instead of scared of their body.
00:20:00
Missy
So for me now, I know this. I don't fear pain anymore because I know it's a signal. And obviously, we're not talking about if you got in a car accident and your arm was broken. I'm not talking about an acute severe external injury, you guys. This is more, you know, the chronic type of pain. But yes, if you if your arm fell off, you really should see a surgeon. You can't I exercise your arm on, you know, so um that's a joke. I mean, it's like, no, this is you need to see doctors when you need to see them. So um pain is a signal to do something different. And it's it's really all based on what we call the threat bucket. So you you have a bucket.
00:20:46
Missy
And it's like the last straw on the camel's back type of thing where if you are hungover, stressed out, you're having marital issues, your kid's doing poorly in school, you're eating low quality pizza every day, then ice cream and all that you write, and your, your threat buckets full to the very top and you reach behind, you reach in your car for your backpack and you tweak your back. It's not from reaching back in your car to grab your bag.
00:21:16
Missy
It's everything that led up to it. So if someone comes to me, if if Leah were to come to me and say, this is what happened, I would say, okay, what happened before that? Because one day you were normal and the next day you weren't or in one moment. So you know what? Actually, this is going on, this is going on, this is going on, this is going on. Okay, here's what we're going to do. There's a lot of things we can't control.
00:21:45
Missy
You did get hurt. Your pain is real. Your pain is valid. You are experiencing pain. There's all these variables we can't control. You broke your toe when you were 20. You had an appendix surgery. You had a root canal. There's all these things that happen to you. So what can we take out of the threat bucket? That's where the power lies. You have a weak left eye? Well, I could work with that. Let's take that right out.
00:22:10
Missy
You don't do breath work. Let's practice that to regulate your nervous system. You can't smell out of your left nostril. Let's take that threat out. You have weird balance on your left leg only. Let's work on that. You have a tattoo that kind of itches when you're hot. Let's work on that. And you see, I have goosebumps again. Now we took out 12 things from your threat bucket and all of a sudden your pain experience is lower. You reach behind your car to grab your bag and you don't tweak your back.
00:22:41
Missy
Interesting.
00:22:44
Missy
Reduce the threats that you can, because there's all these variables we cannot control. Okay. I've had two unwanted C-sections. They were very, very traumatic for me. I can't do anything about that. It happened. I have two healthy babies. I'm safe and sound. Okay. The right side of my scar is super hypersensitive. What can I do about this? My brain finds it threatening.
00:23:11
Missy
So let's work around the tissue. Let's do the breath work, do whatever. So is what I'm saying making sense.
00:23:20
Beyond Terrain
Absolutely. No, absolutely. And I think it's a really empowering thing beyond education, right? It's very empowering to know like, I don't know, I think it's a really good way to look, to go about it. But I think that ah it comes back to your definition of health too, right? To have the freedom to move within, you know, what your body allows and what, you know, what your circumstance allows, right? Because obviously things happen and that's going to dictate what you can and can't do for the most part, right? like You know, but obviously there are sometimes where we do have self-limiting beliefs, right? And, you know, we got to distill those down and and see we can, we can remove these self-limiting beliefs. We can, we can work on the threats that you were talking about there. Like, um, yeah, that's really interesting. Even the way that you kind of talk about threats, like, um, some of the examples that you were bringing up, uh, like having an itchy tattoo
00:24:14
Beyond Terrain
or something like that, you know, or just really like mild things that you wouldn't even, I wouldn't even consider to be a threat in a way. Right. Like, but these are all signals, right? They're all signals from our body saying, I've got to change something in a way. Right. So, um, yeah, I think that's great. Even like poor balance on one, like on one side versus the other side. and Um, so fascinating, so fascinating. I remember talking with. Emma's Goldsworthy on a podcast episode and he was talking about having to like, a he had a foot injury at one point, you might've tweaked his ankle or something. And he was out for a walk and, you know, he was like limping down the road. And so he decided that he was going to start limping on the other side, like so rat, like kind of trick his brain into limping on, even though he was limping with his left, like like left ankle, he decided he was going to start limping with his right ankle.
00:25:10
Beyond Terrain
And he went for a walk and pretended to do this and did all this different stuff. And by the end of his walk, he felt a lot better. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. you know And so I thought, you know I kind of tweaked my ankle there and I thought, all right, well, like, yeah, this kind of hurts.
00:25:18
Missy
Yeah, I love that.
00:25:25
Beyond Terrain
and um but I'm to try that. So I went out and instead of limping on it and really babying it, I kind of like went the other way. And it was just such an interesting little activity. And it did. It felt a lot better.
00:25:36
Beyond Terrain
It was so weird how that kind of happened. just I wouldn't even know how to begin to explain that, but it was just a really cool idea. And it just came to mind when you were talking about pain as being a signal to kind of change something up, right? Because it'd be very easy for me to go and baby
Challenging Misconceptions about Physical Conditions
00:25:51
Beyond Terrain
it. And, you know, I have i have really flat feet and, you know, so I've rolled my ankle quite a lot and I've babied them, you know, like, and they, you know, they don't really get that better. Well, now I train my feet and You know, I have a lot strong, like my feet are a lot stronger.
00:26:05
Beyond Terrain
So even when I do get into positions that I would have rolled and, you know, injured my ankle, it doesn't happen anymore. But even if I do tweak my ankle, I want to recover a lot quicker.
00:26:16
Beyond Terrain
And, you know, it's just about that. um It's about that change, right? It was like, you know, my feet are still fairly flat, but they're a lot stronger and they're a lot mobile like they're more mobile and stuff like that, too.
00:26:27
Beyond Terrain
So just a couple of things that kind of came to mind there that is really fascinating.
00:26:31
Missy
i love I love that you brought this up, you know, two things. I have the flattest feet of anyone you'll ever meet, ah right? And I actually love that about my body to show people that that doesn't mean XYZ.
00:26:46
Missy
Like, look at me. I'm one of the most mobile people you will ever meet, right? But my feet are... When I get out of the shower, there is a whole footprint, right? And everyone makes fun of me because I just have the flattest feet.
00:26:59
Beyond Terrain
so i am with yeah
00:27:00
Missy
Yeah, like I just have really flat feet, but it's kind of this blessing from my position to go, look, look at my feet. And and I don't have the XYZ symptoms that you're supposed to have or what, you know.
00:27:14
Missy
um And the other thing that the interview you had that you're mentioning about the limping ankle guy, sometimes this example will help with clients where I'll say, you know, what you're dealing with is ah what you're dealing with.
00:27:22
Beyond Terrain
No, I am with you.
00:27:29
Missy
But if I broke your pinky right now, you would not feel that pain. You wouldn't. It's not possible. The brain cannot delegate resources that way. You would only be like, ah, my pinky. So it's all relative, right? Like, what is worse, this or that or, you know, it's so i I sometimes that context will help. It's like, well, if I broke your arm right now, and your right ankle tweak wouldn't really, you wouldn't even notice it. So it's funny because when you start reducing and taking the threats out of people's threat buckets, other stuff pops up and they're like, wait,
00:28:13
Missy
I haven't thought about this knee injury since I was 12. And it to me, it's beautiful because we're just chipping away. We're just chipping away. You know, the statue of David, we're chipping away everything that isn't you until you are left.
00:28:33
Beyond Terrain
Wow
00:28:33
Missy
So I want it all. Okay, we got we're left eyes not weak anymore. Great. Your tattoo doesn't itch. Great. What's next? Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's keep checking them off. And there you are. Which sometimes, well, you're a psychotherapist. So most of the time or all the time, the mental battle with these things is harder for clients to deal with than the actual thing, a right ankle sprain, okay?
00:29:03
Beyond Terrain
I think.
00:29:05
Missy
Here it is, black and white textbook. This is what happened. It bruised, it swelled, all things, right? But then it's the psycho stuff. I don't even know how to explain it. that That's harder to deal with, which I have a skill set from excel experience, not from a doctorate, right?
00:29:22
Missy
I i just, I see it. And I can speak to it because I've been there, but you have this whole professional toolbox of how to help people through that. That could be, and maybe is more powerful than any of it is how to, you know, I work with professional athletes and they say to me, they, uh, they have, um, you know, I don't know what it's called athlete, psycho, I don't know. There's a term. They only work with professional athletes.
00:29:56
Beyond Terrain
Sure.
00:29:58
Missy
sports psychologist?
00:29:59
Beyond Terrain
Sports psychologist, I think would be, yeah.
00:30:02
Missy
Maybe But anyways, what ah what a beautiful job to help the athlete through this part.
00:30:02
Beyond Terrain
That's how I would know it. Yeah.
00:30:07
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:30:09
Missy
I'm pointing at my brain.
Integrating Movement with Therapy
00:30:11
Missy
This part of dealing with body stuff. This is the hardest. And that same thing with me and my C-sections, right? So I'm someone who can drop into the splits, cold-bodied, no problem.
00:30:22
Missy
I'm Filipino. I live in a squat. And I had to have C-sections.
00:30:29
Missy
It is something I will forever have to grapple with. you know It's between me and God, I guess, right? But it physically should have happened in my mind.
00:30:42
Missy
like I have the that physical capabilities to have a natural birth.
00:30:47
Beyond Terrain
you
00:30:48
Missy
so you know It's like the mental the mental part of it is very challenging.
00:30:57
Beyond Terrain
yeah yeah absolutely No, and and I do see a lot of overlap to like Because one of the, like introducing movement is something that I kind of do indirectly but with clients, right? It's not something that I can, um you know, do it on a very direct level. Like, but but just introducing any type of movement can be really helpful. um And I think there's really interesting connections too between, um obviously there's a lot of talk now between chronic pains and trauma and things like that.
00:31:32
Beyond Terrain
um, which is a really interesting part of the field. And even like we were mentioning, like these threats, like is, is exactly what I'm talking about too. You know what I mean? Like when you're talking about removing these threats on a physical level, like a balance issue or an a left eye weakness or whatever, this often like unlocks interesting parts of our brain. And, you know, like you're mentioning like,
00:32:00
Beyond Terrain
everything's tied to this neural system, right? And so neural systems, the brain as well, right? It's all, it's all very connected. So it can really open things up and even allow things to flow. Like obviously we live in a kind of a world where we lack movement. You know, a lot of people lack movement and it's a very unnatural thing to not move, you know? So even introducing that movement,
00:32:28
Beyond Terrain
you you see like instant results kind of on the mental level as well. And, um, especially if you're over identifying with an injury or something like that, healing from this physical ailment can have huge effects on like introspection, you know, needing to look deeper on, on who you truly are as an individual. Cause your injuries don't define you and you're, you know, you're, whatever it is, like anything that happens to you doesn't necessarily define you. Like you're much greater,
00:32:57
Beyond Terrain
more powerful being than that, right? So I see, I do see a lot of similarities there. um And even like, what I find interesting, like we were talking there earlier, and might be a good time to kind of bring this into the conversation, I'm trained in eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing EMDR. And bilateral stimulation is the mechanism that allows for the processing of trauma, right? So what I find really interesting about this, the most interesting thing about in my whole training on EMDR was that going out for a walk is bilateral stimulation. you know So simple, simple movements like that, you're actually subtly doing what I would probably do on a more intense level. right so um And I think, again, like what you're you're addressing in balance is stuff like that.
00:33:52
Beyond Terrain
I do truly believe with everything in my heart, and I think there is literature that suggests that this is true, but even imbalances in the body or, you know, tight muscles and, um, you know, stiff, stiff muscles, stuff like that, or not being flexible. All this is taught can be tied to sometimes, obviously there are very physical causes as well, but can be tied to, you you know, incidences in your past, like trums and stuff like that. So I think it's such a, an interesting connection, right? I mean,
00:34:20
Beyond Terrain
Obviously we can't study anything in isolation. That's really one of the conclusions that I'm coming to and that's so interesting. So you do a lot of eye exercises and stuff in your practice. Like do you do EMDR?
00:34:33
Missy
funny story. Um, so I've, I've seen some techniques and I was, I was like, I need to hire a professional. I don't know what I'm doing, you know, cause I know hundreds of eye exercises, but with the bilateral movements, I just wasn't sure what was going to happen or, you know, so I hired someone and we worked together for a couple sessions and I tell her,
00:34:52
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:35:01
Missy
my issues. It's basically, I'm better now, but um I have insomnia and I'm very high functioning, high energy. i i've have I've seen both of my parents passed away. I have, you know, my sister had, bri there's just there's a lot. There's a lot there, very dysfunctional upbringing. And so i I hire her for this very specific purpose of I would like to do EMDR. This is my jam. I want to experience it, you know, and she a couple, maybe third, fourth session in. We haven't done any yet. It was just the talking aspect of therapy. And she says to me, you know, your case doesn't make sense to me. I need to run it by some of my colleagues before we attempt any of these EMDR techniques. And I'm like, okay. She goes,
00:35:53
Missy
and I'm probably saying it not correctly, but you'll get what I'm saying when I try to say it. is She said, I feel as if we were to attempt this without doing it properly. We might unlock some Pandora's but box. I don't know what's going to happen and we don't know how to deal with that. Because I'm so high functioning,
00:36:19
Missy
There's not really a problem that's associated with my trauma, per se, besides insomnia. that's I really, really do deal with that. But it doesn't affect me in a way that I can show. like i just I'm used to it, so it's like an adrenal cortisol issue probably when I'm like,
00:36:37
Missy
sixty five I don't know. But anyways, the whole point of the story is I hire someone for this in four or five, six sessions in. We haven't done any of it. And she does not professionally recommend that we do it.
00:36:49
Missy
And I still haven't done it. And I was so eager to tell you this because you just got your training in it.
00:36:53
Beyond Terrain
Oh.
00:36:56
Missy
And I'm like, well, I have a funny story because I haven't tried any yet because I was not recommended to do so and still haven't because
00:36:56
Beyond Terrain
Interesting. Yeah.
00:37:03
Beyond Terrain
Very interesting.
00:37:05
Missy
Now I'm kind of scared of ah of a Pandora's box thing, like what is going to happen? And if you're not prepared for the aftermath or you don't have techniques to deal with, who knows what?
00:37:14
Beyond Terrain
Sure.
00:37:17
Missy
then So I just kind of took a pause and now I have no idea.
00:37:22
Beyond Terrain
so Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and, and that's the thing, it can be, it can be a rather intense thing and their ways to kind of titrate it as well. But what I really like about sort of the subtleties of the way that you approach movement and even indirectly bilateral stimulation and just movement in general does that, right? Like, I think that that's like the, one of the main mechanisms because, um, but the way that you're approaching movement is like,
00:37:50
Beyond Terrain
that's a way to go about it, to go about healing anything without having to worry about a Pandora's box or anything like that, right?
Safe Movement Practices for Trauma Healing
00:37:58
Beyond Terrain
Like if you go for a walk, you're not gonna unleash some sort of crazy, you know what I mean?
00:38:04
Missy
Yeah, exactly
00:38:05
Beyond Terrain
Like it's not gonna set you off, right? But maybe like, you know, if you're doing like an intense session or something when you shouldn't be, obviously there there are risks involved and stuff like that too, right?
00:38:16
Beyond Terrain
So um that's a really interesting story actually, yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting.
00:38:19
Missy
I really respected her for it. right i I was so grateful because could it have like ruined my life?
00:38:22
Beyond Terrain
yeah Absolutely.
00:38:27
Missy
I have no idea. like I have kids to raise. like I just don't know. and she's just like you She said to me, i just you shouldn't be functioning the way that you do. and i I can't explain it.
00:38:39
Missy
I've been doing this a long time.
00:38:43
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:38:43
Missy
We were both kind of like, okey-dokey.
00:38:44
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:38:46
Missy
And then I moved from San Diego to Arizona and just kind of, you know, just stopped working with her, not for any reason, but just kind of forgot to be honest. um But yeah, so here we are.
00:38:55
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:38:58
Missy
What is the R for? So eye movement desensitization.
00:39:02
Beyond Terrain
Reprocessing.
00:39:04
Missy
Reprocessing. OK, yeah, yeah.
00:39:05
Beyond Terrain
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, cool it's a cool modality. It's a really cool modality. And, and one of the, like, like when I learned about it, it was so interesting. Like, like it would be cool.
00:39:16
Beyond Terrain
Like, you know, from. sort of your school of thought, if you could like sit in on a training, because I think that you would really love what they talk about, right? Like, I think you would really love, it's all tied into neurology. It's all explained through that lens. um And I think a lot of it would really resonate with the work that you're doing. And you would like, it's very clear to see how like, just moving your body is a very healing thing, you know? And so that's why like, if anybody asked me, like what, like anybody,
00:39:48
Beyond Terrain
ask me, how do I become healthier person? It's movement, because it addresses this physical addresses the physical. right If you're going to try and heal your physical body, if you have any you know aches and pains and imbalances and stuff like that, addressing that will help you ah like be optimal physically. But it very directly affects your mental health. right And I really think that it's the missing piece to the reason why we have this huge Crisis this mental health crisis, right? We also have a movement crisis. We're not moving anymore, right? I don't think this is like a far-fetched thing at all. It's obviously correlation but um You know, I do think that there's a lot to suggest that that there's a big connection there so I think it I think it's so so interesting and I I like to recommend
00:40:42
Beyond Terrain
movement and even body work as well, things like osteopathy or different like modalities of, you know, aligning the body in a way, right? Because there's this interesting philosophy, like the alignment of the body allows for like, the free movement of energy, right? And the more Eastern traditions, um which I think has holds a lot of weight, again, with the connection of the physical and the more mental or spiritual realm. So Um, I think it's so cool.
00:41:14
Beyond Terrain
I think it's, it's absolutely amazing. So in your work, when you're doing like, you're, you're, you're working on the more physical level, like is any physical movement kind of training that neural system
Neurology's Role in Physical Movement
00:41:26
Beyond Terrain
in a way?
00:41:26
Beyond Terrain
Like, you know, when you do the eye movements, this is like training, like. Is it training that neural system? Is that a good question to ask?
00:41:37
Missy
Yeah, no, it's a great question. here's Here's the thing.
00:41:39
Beyond Terrain
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:40
Missy
You already know the answer, which it's an absolute yes, right? So movement does... here You're doing neurology whether you know it or not.
00:41:53
Missy
That's kind of the shtick is like, you might as well know it because you're doing it. Might not be not be might not be done well, but you are doing it.
00:42:04
Missy
um So It all depends on the relevant goal and what movements you would choose, right? Because sometimes, especially now that you have this EMDR background, it's sometimes going straight to cranial nerves is way too threatening for people. And I experienced this personally, and this is kind of another reason I got into it because it triggered me so much. And I was like,
00:42:33
Missy
How could this possibly make me cry? And I was so confused, you know? So I was just doing basic saccades. I mean, it's just left, right, left, right. And I start bawling in front of the room because it was like, who wants to volunteer to learn this exercise? So Doc would teach the exercise while everyone's watching and you're, you know, I volunteer and I'm moving my eyes right to left, your head stays still.
00:42:58
Missy
and I start crying in front of everyone. I was so embarrassed. I sat down with my arms crossed for the next three days. just I could barely learn because I was so irritated and embarrassed that that happened to me and the whole time. How could that make me cry? It was just eyeball movement. i could just so you know So then I realized like, wow, that that's something I really should learn about and explore because it had such a big impact on me. So let's do this, right? So if you just assume people can do eye exercises, that's that's not appropriate because we don't know. So I like to regress cranial nerve exercises initially. And then if the body and nervous system is a thumbs up green light,
00:43:45
Missy
Okay, now we can actually do the exercises, but we don't we don't know the history yet. Unless you do know the history, then that's a different story, but they might respond better to ankle circles. And you're coming about you're coming at that from a neuro perspective. You're like, okay, nonlinear movement contributes and is front. contributes it's generated by the same side cerebellum and the opposite cortex. So movement is neurology, and that's that's kind of what I mean. If it's nonlinear, if it's a circle, an infinity, or an eight, the same side cerebellum is like very excited. It's like brain candy. It's like, yes. it you know um But if we're doing cranial nerve stuff, that's a different story. If you're doing midline stuff,
00:44:38
Missy
That's also a different story. you know I have come to learn if you have an issue on the midline, so eyes, nose, mouth, throat, tongue, chest, abdomen, pelvic floor. If I work on something else on the midline, it helps the other midline issue.
00:45:02
Missy
I don't really know how to explain it. It's anecdotal, I guess, but I've seen it. I know it. i can stand behind it because I've tried all kinds of things. I can kind of tie it to... there's um When I was prepping for my first birth, I read all these midwifery books and there was um there was this woman who was a 30-year midwife.
00:45:22
Missy
Oh my gosh, that is a very cute cat. If you guys don't know, Liev has a very cute cat. It's furry with white paws.
00:45:29
Beyond Terrain
He shows up every once in a while just to interrupt the show.
00:45:31
Missy
Oh my gosh, he's so cute. I love animals. um This midwife, confirmed like right with all these births she helped that if she coached a woman to relax her jaw, the cervix would soften.
00:45:52
Missy
so i mean I have chills again. I took that nugget of information and I ran with it. You're going to love this example. okay I know we're like probably way over time, but you're going to love this. It's worth it. so I have this client and we're probably like three months in.
00:46:08
Missy
She's dealing with all this stuff and this is, we're going there and there's no turning back now. So I'm just going for it and everyone can respond to how they respond, but she had a lot of yeast infections and no one could help her. Like all the Western medicine route was just like antibiotics, this and this and all that, right? It was just not working. It was getting worse actually. So she trusts me and I'm like, if you're if you're not going to give up, I won't give up. And I start learning about this midwifery correlation of Let's call it their opposing joints to a midwife, maybe. Throat, mouth, vaginal wall, cervix. h So I start asking her more questions about her mouth. I get a lot of canker sores. You get a lot of canker sores. Interesting. Why do you think that happens? and
00:47:01
Missy
start exploring that and we we cannot figure this thing out. Why is she getting canker sores? So about three months of exploring and racking my brain, I'm like losing sleep over this because nothing's helping her and I'm so irritated that I can't figure it out and I want whatever. She's still getting yeast infections, okay? Because as a woman, it's the worst worse thing, you right? I've had one in my life that was okay. So I care about her. I love her. I want her to feel better.
00:47:28
Missy
Here's what I figure out. Start asking about her food and dental hygiene, all these things. You know, Missy, I eat these little circular baby bell cheese circles.
00:47:43
Missy
And I think those are causing my canker sores. Interesting. So we take those out of her diet. Kinkersauce are eliminated. And guess what's next? The yeast infections go away. And I'm like, what? The freaking baby bells?
00:48:10
Missy
So yes, so over the course of my career, I kind of start trying this theory on a couple different situations, this genitalia area with mouth and tongue and throat. And it like another thing comes up. a girlfriend This is not even a client. A girlfriend of mine, we're working out together. She's like, you know, my boyfriend, the odor just doesn't smell right. and she tried And I'm like, I'm just curious. How is his oral hygiene? Just starting with like low, you know very chill questions. she's like She looks at me like I have 10 heads, right? how did you
00:48:48
Missy
he has He actually has horrible oral hygiene practices, and I'm like, no way. She goes, his parents are dentists, so he has this psychological rebellion about dental health because of the way he was brought up with teeth and the...
Emphasizing Experimentation and Body Trust
00:49:05
Missy
So he doesn't floss, he doesn't brush his teeth, dadh--da and I'm i'm telling him, I'm like, I'm going out on a limb here, but it's probably going to work. You figure out how you're going to have those conversations with him,
00:49:16
Missy
However you do it in your girlfriend way, get him working on his mouth, come back to me, right? I hear from her like two weeks later, odor's gone, he started flossing, brushing his teeth, Missy, like you're a voodoo witch magic doctor, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, not doctor, sorry, voodoo witch, you know what I'm saying, black magic. ah And I laugh because I'm like, it's it's not voodoo.
00:49:43
Missy
it it's i I follow bread crumbs. You know what I mean? I follow the yellow brick road. And I'm more of someone like, let's just try it.
00:49:57
Missy
And the worst case scenario is it doesn't work.
00:50:00
Beyond Terrain
Yeah.
00:50:00
Missy
That is the worst thing that's going to happen. It doesn't work. Hey, Missy, that didn't work. Ah, dang. Next. But if it works, that'll be $500.
00:50:13
Beyond Terrain
That is the coolest story.
00:50:14
Missy
No, I'm kidding. but Yeah, so yeah.
00:50:17
Beyond Terrain
Oh, that's amazing. Wow. Wow. No, and I'm so glad that you shared that. That is, that is really eye-opening actually. Um, really interesting consideration.
00:50:29
Beyond Terrain
I've never, Never thought about that. Never heard that that.
00:50:32
Missy
Midwifery, thank you midwives.
00:50:32
Beyond Terrain
That is amazing. Wow. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. What I really love most about your approach. Yeah. Let's relax our jaws, right?
00:50:43
Missy
Yeah, relax your pelvic floor.
00:50:47
Beyond Terrain
I really love about your approach that it's a big attunement piece too. There's a little bit of trial and error there. I think these are the fundamental things that really make great practitioners. So I really,
00:50:59
Beyond Terrain
Appreciate you kind of sharing and all this information with us. If I get some final thoughts on the episode, anything that you want to add to what we've been talking about now's the chance.
00:51:14
Missy
This is so hard to answer. um This is my chance. It's, you know, it really is. It sounds stupid, cliche, and you've heard it a million times, but really just trust your body. Your body is smarter than you. Your nervous system is smarter than you. And no one knows what you're feeling. No one.
00:51:37
Missy
No one, not me, not Liev, not your dog. No one knows what you are feeling. So we are on the other side trying our best, but you have the answers within you and your nervous system has the answers and trust, trust that. You have a gut feeling for a reason.
00:52:01
Beyond Terrain
Yeah,
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:52:02
Beyond Terrain
absolutely. You are the expert of your own body. No one can take that away from you. That's great. You see, this has been a great conversation.
00:52:11
Beyond Terrain
How can the listeners learn more from you? You have a fantastic Instagram page. I know of that. Where else can they find you? We'll put all the links down below too. And how can they support you as well?
00:52:18
Missy
Oh, it's so easy. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, my name is real. It's not a stage name. Some people think I made it up. My name is Missy Bunch. You type that into the Googles. I will show up everywhere. But if you go to missybunch.com, there's all there's so many resources for you. I have freebies on my Instagram. You literally just have to comment a word.
00:52:39
Missy
you know, joints or nerves will get you some free information. I have a free training on there. um My signature program is a self paced mentorship that comes with weekly live meetings directly with me weekly. So it is very well worth the investment. um I actually think it's on the lower end. Every business coach I hire tells me I'm undercharging for my program, but it's basic basically a crash course in the basics of neurology and my 14 years
00:53:11
Missy
literally compiled into one convenient place with a private community and my support with every client case study. And it's just it's just an amazing thing that I'm very, very proud of. And I also do business coaching. So very easy to find all of those resources, DM me, email me, I love to hear from people. I'm a people people. I'm a coaches coach. So I'd love to hear from you.
00:53:35
Beyond Terrain
That's amazing. Missy, thank you so much for everything today. This has been an an enlightening conversation and you're great energy. So thank you so much for your time.
00:53:43
Missy
You're so welcome. Have a great day.
00:53:46
Beyond Terrain
Thank you. You too.
00:53:47
Missy
Thanks, Leah.
00:53:48
Beyond Terrain
And I want to thank you all for listening. You should all know that this is not medical advice for your informational purposes only, but also remember that we're all responsible, cyber beings, capable of thinking, criticizing, and understanding absolutely anything. We, the people in the greater forest are together, self-heal or self-governable self self-governable, self teachers, and so much more.
00:54:02
Beyond Terrain
Make sure to reach out if you have any questions, criticisms, comments, concerns, whatever it is, you can find me on Instagram. That's the best way to reach me. Otherwise, you can leave a comment, email, whatever, I'll find you at some point. And if you like this podcast episode, if you like what we do here, give us a comment, a review, a rating, all that would be much appreciated. Sharing's always the best way to get the word out there and help us grow. Just remember, there are two types of people in the world, those believe they can, those believe they can't, and they are both correct. Thanks for listening, guys. Take care.