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Andy Bryant on Healthy Natural Feet, Strength Over Support, Alternative Podiatry, Posture and More!
349 Plays1 month ago
This week, we welcome the incredible Andy Bryant, a podiatrist dedicated to helping people strengthen their feet and, in turn, their entire bodies. Andy takes a unique approach to podiatry, focusing on removing unnecessary supports like padding and lifts, allowing feet to regain their natural strength and function.
We dive into many aspects of this fascinating topic, starting with how Andy found his way into alternative podiatry and why caring for your feet is so important. As the foundation of the body, our feet deserve attention and training—and Andy shares compelling reasons to let them be free and strong!
We explore Andy’s philosophy, including the idea of strengthening rather than supporting, and the principle of "use it or lose it." Andy also introduces us to the SAID principle (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands) and its application to foot health. Our discussion covers posture, movement, transitioning to barefoot living, flat feet, injuries, trail running, toe splay, bunions, and much more.
It’s a jam-packed episode filled with valuable insights and practical tips. We hope you enjoy it!
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Transcript
Introduction to Beyond Drain Podcast
00:00:01
Liev Dalton
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Beyond Drain podcast. I'm your host, Liam Dalton. Uh, if you're new around here, why don't you consider subscribing following the show? Uh, great way to keep up with what we're doing. And obviously if you like the show, give us a review, a comment, like, uh, great ways to help support the show grow and and get the message out there. Sharing is always the best way to do so. So make sure you share with friend, family members, stranger on the street, whatever it may be.
Guest Introduction: Andy Bryant
00:00:25
Liev Dalton
We have a great guest on today, guys. i'm I'm really looking forward. This is a topic that I just love. It's, it's kind of hits close to home. It's a,
00:00:31
Liev Dalton
ah related to a journey that I've sort of been on. Um, I'm sure we we might touch on that a little bit here, but I'm really eager to kind of delve into this topic a little deeper. Um, you know, this is something that, you know, I countered cut pretty recently, all things considered, you know, for the last, you know, two years, I've been kind of focusing on this stuff. Um, on and on, obviously it's not been necessarily the main stuff, but, uh, there's some great people out here, like, like our guests, uh, Mr. Andy, but Andy Bryant and, um,
00:01:00
Liev Dalton
focusing on this stuff and really getting really great information out. And, um, so really grateful for, for the work that, that this gentleman's doing. and So Andy, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate your time.
00:01:10
Andy
Thanks for having me Liv. I'm excited to talk about this stuff always.
What is Health?
00:01:15
Liev Dalton
Amazing. Yeah. So first question, uh, I ask all my guests a little introductory question. I get them to kind of give a definition of health, you know, what health means to you? How does it manifest? You can kind of take it in any direction you like, uh, but yeah, give a little definition of kind of what is health.
00:01:29
Andy
um For me, personally, it's um the ability to do what I want. Um, when I want, so I don't want to have to think, Oh, can my body do that? Is my health up to it? Am I going to have and had enough sleep for that? Am I going to have to eat the right thing? Like, like, I just want to be able to as a human be adaptable and just do whatever I feel like doing physically, generally speaking, you know, um whether it be. go and play a game of squash. I ah often use that one because it's such an extreme um sport and you always pull up so soft from playing squash or whether it be and my friend says hey let's go for a hike for but which happened like a 30 mile hike one day I'm like yeah okay let's do that you know I just want I think for me health is to be able to just do stuff like that because everything else is just
00:02:17
Andy
kept at a and a level that means I can just you know pick up and go and do stuff. So for me, that's what health is. I think in my work um as a podiatrist, it's more about having having people do what they want to be able to do. you know If they want to be able to walk the dog, then they can't Um, so I think personally I'm a little more extreme. like I try to think of these extreme things that I want to be able to just go and do, but I think for my clients, it's often just very basic stuff that, um, health should be that they, um, can do the basics of life, um, without complaint, you know, without pain. Yeah.
00:02:54
Liev Dalton
I love that answer too, because it shows, like it it kind of encompasses the nature of how individual health is, right? It depends on your goals, your values, your desires, right? If, you know, going on a 30 mile hike on a random day is, is part of something that you want to be able to do, right? That, that kind of shapes what, what health means to you and what it looks like and how, you know, you're going to approach it, right? So I love that answer. And I agree largely with, with what you're saying. It's kind of how I would probably.
00:03:23
Liev Dalton
take defining health as well. So um
Andy's Journey to Podiatry
00:03:27
Liev Dalton
yeah, I appreciate that. Appreciate that definition. So we're talking about, um we're going to talk a little bit about foot health today, more specifically, I guess. And um so I'm really curious, maybe kind of just how you went down this road, like how you got on this path, why why it interests you so much. So maybe we can hear a little bit about that and then dive a little deeper.
00:03:45
Andy
Yeah, for sure. um When I was at school, like high school, I did a placement with a physical therapist and there's a podiatrist there as well doing a nail surgery. That's where we have an ingrown toner.
00:03:56
Andy
And I just thought that was more interesting. So I started sort of heading in that direction and became a podiatrist. Thought while I was at university learning about it, I'd be better as a teacher. And so I did a little bit of extra at uni then, but then enjoyed helping clients. But it was very traditional podiatrist and here in Australia, and I think it's similar in Canada, but different in the US. um The US podiatrist is surgeons, where whereas we're more like a physical therapist. We're more likely to be like um helping someone with an injury.
00:04:25
Andy
um with orthotics or footwear or yeah generally that's what modes have been in the past or a lot of podiatrists cut toenails, help with ingrown toenails, corns, calluses, things like that. anyway So I did that for like 17 years in my own practice, multiple podiatrists working for me. um But I was always physically quite healthy myself, not healthy, i physically active myself. um And this is, it's interesting back to that idea about health.
00:04:53
Andy
At one point, I was um very serious at roadside road cycling at a high level, very high level. and I would say I was as fit as I've ever been, but I was not healthy at that point. like I couldn't do anything but road cycle. I struggled to do anything else.
00:05:07
Andy
and so um you know like ah ah If someone asked me to squat, then I wouldn't have been able to get my thighs below parallel. I remember an austere path asking me to do that. and I was always having massages and always having having to having to have massages, having to have osteopathy, because I was just so focused on being highly fit. Anyway, um as luck would have it, or otherwise, I had four accidents in two years that meant I had serious concussions, and so I had to quit
From Support to Strength
00:05:33
Andy
cycling.
00:05:33
Andy
and um I need a physical outlet and I for some reason went to a yoga class, I don't even know why and noticed over time how my feet were getting stronger, how I was using my feet with the rest of my body just because of good queuing and I thought, um you know, I should be doing this for my clients. I should be getting them to strengthen their feet rather than support their feet and so then that's over the last eight years I've um sort of um that's unraveled into what I do now which is helping people rehabilitate their feet through um bringing them back more to natural function, which is trying to um take things away. Like a good example was, I saw it on social media last night, a podiatrist who's quite mainstream, but it's got a little bit of an open mind about so ah about about shoes. um Talk about an issue for one of his clients her with some pressure on the inside of his foot.
00:06:29
Andy
on this client's foot, which is better barefoot. They don't have the problem when they're barefoot. And so he worked out it was the shoe rubbing on the foot there. And so instead of, um so what I would do is go, okay, let's create a a situation where you're more barefoot or in a shoe that mimics that because that's what's helping you. You know, you've sorted that out. But instead, the but I just put a heel lift in, which is like a little raise to lift the heel up, um which is to move the pressure spot away from the so the sore spot and put padding in and so traditional podiatry adds things and now you know adds things to a problem which means now that person is further away from their natural foot function and they're having to deal with a conventional shoe with a heel wedge and padding compared to if what I would do in that situation
00:07:18
Andy
you know, generally speaking, without knowing the full history, I would um remove shoe, like go back to what's already less painful for them. If someone's coming to tell me that it's less painful without their shoes on, why don't we try and mimic that? yeah So anyway, that's like a really little snapshot of what traditional podiatry does. We're often adding things, um you know, orthotics, shockwave therapy, all these different modalities, and I am trying to take them away and let the body get back to its um normal function, normal natural function.
00:07:47
Liev Dalton
Yeah, no, that that's absolutely amazing. I love that.
00:07:49
Andy
It's a lucky snapshot of my last 25 years.
00:07:49
Liev Dalton
So yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. Nice and concise too. Um, yeah, like, so, so why, I guess you kind of touched on this a little bit, but like, why is foot health so important?
00:08:05
Liev Dalton
Like, why is it something that we should, we should consider and focus on? Like what kind of problems can be, are indicative of like poor foot health or, you know, stuff like that. Right? Like why, why, why bother?
00:08:14
Andy
yeah it's um It's our conjure up between our between us and the but our environment. It's the often the only part that touches our environment physically, you know like apart from air and things brushing against you. you know um Obviously, this our senses are picking up a whole lot of things, you know like heat from the sun, light from the sun, the smell is smelling the sea air. like ah All of our senses are picking all this stuff up. But the physical way we're touching our environment is through our feet. And and there's often a big,
00:08:47
Andy
um mismatched there because the rest of our body is getting all these sensations about our environment, but we often have something on our foot that, as in conventional shoes, that take us away from our environment and confuse our nervous system. They don't let our nervous system understand um its environment properly because our nervous system is getting all this feedback and the feet aren't matching what they sit what it's seeing.
00:09:11
Andy
and so From there's that perspective, our nervous system perspective, that our feet are meant to feel our environment. And and so that's a huge um reason why our foot health is so important. um And then also, our foot is meant to be one of the main shock absorbers, like the mechanically mechanical mechanical side of it is that it's meant to be a huge shock absorber for us when we land on the ground, and it's meant to be helping us propel ourselves off the ground. And so if we use artificial aids at helping us shock absorb or helping us push off um and helping us feel the ground then or or stopping us feel the ground then that's going to have some flow on effect further up the chain. You know our foot is not a mistake it's not like it was attached on at the end of either creation or
00:10:03
Andy
or evolution and gone, oh, we just ah we'll just have to support this for the rest of time because we made a mistake here. you know like It evolved with a mistake. That's not the case. It's meant to be part of and um work with the rest of our body. And it's the thing that allows us to um move in our environment. So it's hugely
Philosophy: Foot Strength vs. Support
00:10:25
Andy
important.
00:10:25
Andy
yeah
00:10:27
Liev Dalton
Yeah, I love that. Um, something you, you mentioned earlier, which I think is phenomenal. I really want to highlight it. You mentioned strength over support. I think that's fantastic. Just those three little words there, um, kind of sounds a little bit like a little bit of an underlying approach philosophy type thing to kind of approaching healing, right? Like trying to strengthen the foot rather than support it and maybe weaken the foot. And I find that.
00:10:56
Liev Dalton
often, you know, cause obviously the five finger shoes are are a little bit of a conversation starter, right? You know, people always, always ask about, you know, what kind of shoes are those? What kind of shoes are those? So I constantly talking about, you know, the shoes I'm wearing on my feet and even the, you know, just the, the wide toe box, people will ask great conversation starter if you're interested in talking to people. But, um, I always say, you know, it's, it's all about strength into my feet. Like I really try to like,
00:11:22
Liev Dalton
minimize what I'm putting on my feet to strengthen them. Like I'm really concerned about strengthening my feet like any other part of my body. That's kind of the answer that I take right away when people ask me, you know, why are you wearing this type of shoe?
00:11:32
Liev Dalton
I always go to strength. And I think like through removing that support, that's how we're kind of building that strength up too. So maybe you speak a little bit more to this strength over support concept.
00:11:42
Andy
Yeah. So there's this this um thing called the SED principle, S-A-I-D, specific adaptation to imposed demand. And our whole body responds to that. So if you impose a demand upon a tissue, um if if it's the right load, um which has to be not too much, because then it will break down, but it's going to break down, like we want it to break down to some extent,
00:12:06
Andy
a tissue, like a muscle or a bone. We want a small amount of breakdown and then your body heals it stronger. That's how we get stronger. Specific adaptation to impose demand, the said principle. um If it's not enough load, then it starts to um decrease its strength. you know So it's not it's not adapting to, well it is it's it's still going to adapt to less load. If you don't use it, you if you yeah if you don't use it you lose it type of thing.
00:12:33
Andy
and so that foot or musculoskeletal, or even nervous system. you know every All of our systems work on this principle. If um our foot, but for for um this conversation now, if our foot can't move, so if we're in a really stiff shoe, um our foot has 26 bones, 33 joints. We only put joints in places in our body where they're meant to move. Think of spine, it's got lots of joints. Our hands have got lots of joints. Our feet have lots of joints.
00:13:01
Andy
So they're meant to move. So if we brace it with a shoe that is stiff, then those joints aren't moving. Those muscles that are crossing those joints aren't getting the um the feedback or or the movement that they need, you know, that the load to create adaptation that they need. And so they'll be less strong. So if we start creating more movement, so if you think of those five-finger shoes or any minimalist shoe that lets your toes be able to move,
00:13:28
Andy
and the sole will be flexible. So then we have an ability to move those joints, then the muscles crossing those joints will have to move and control that movement and be stronger because they're um adapting to the demand. And so, um you know, traditionally we've supported the foot.
Developing Foot Strength Naturally
00:13:45
Andy
We all think we need to support feet, but really feet have their own specific um support structure, whether it be the muscles within it, a strong ankle or strong hips and and legs.
00:13:59
Andy
they all help support a foot. And if you're not using that, then it's going to um probably maybe need more support artificially. And so yeah, and that's that that's the um idea of support overt strength over support.
00:14:14
Andy
yeah I haven't actually ever used that term, so um but I must say it quite a bit.
00:14:16
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:14:19
Andy
So yeah, that's cool.
00:14:22
Liev Dalton
It's great. It kind of just, it stuck out to me, you know, cause I feel like that's like just one of the ways that I kind of conceptualize the whole idea.
00:14:24
Andy
Yeah.
00:14:29
Liev Dalton
Um, even just, you know, and I've kind of learned to extrapolate that philosophy a little bit too. Like when I see people wearing like, um, or, you know, not necessarily wearing them, but you see like the ads for like posture support systems, like they hold your shoulders back and they, you know,
00:14:41
Andy
No.
00:14:46
Liev Dalton
I just, you know, I kind of like try to, try to bridge these concepts together and think, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to force myself or support myself in that position. Cause I feel like I'm going to be weakening something, you know, I'm weakening something and maybe temporarily there could be an argument. I'm not too sure about that, but I do know that posture wise, I really want to strengthen, you know, me being in ah proper the proper posture, right? Like me being in a,
00:15:13
Liev Dalton
natural, proper um orientation and strengthening in that so that it's comfortable. I can rest in it. Same as feet, right? I want to be comfortable. I want to strengthen my feet in their natural positions, which is obviously barefoot, you know, and and strengthen their function there. Like even, you know, climbing a tree or walking on a trail or rocks or pebbles or things that are more uncomfortable, you know, becoming comfortable in that. Like one of the trails that I walk on is uh, like their patches of pebbles and stones. And it's like quite, it could be quite uncomfortable for my feet. And, but it's not anymore. It used to be, but it's not anymore. You know, and people ask me when I'm wearing the barefoot food, like shoes out on the, on the trail, they're like, this must hurt your feet. You know, I was talking to a physiotherapist once he said, you know, this must really hurt your feet. And I was like, it used to, but it doesn't anymore. And you know, I just gradually started adapting to my environment, right? That it just shows kind of that adaptive nature. You put yourself in that environment.
00:16:06
Liev Dalton
You kind of start to adapt to it. So any thoughts?
00:16:09
Andy
Yeah, posture is a really interesting one because um you know we've we've got these ideas that we're meant to have this perfect posture, that um that that there is an ideal posture, but really um we should just be moving. And if we're at rest, it probably doesn't matter as long as we're not always at rest in the same position.
00:16:25
Andy
you know
00:16:26
Liev Dalton
Sure.
00:16:26
Andy
um your ni
00:16:27
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:16:28
Andy
there's ah There's a saying, your next position is your best position. So as in keep keep moving or a client asks me how they should garden, like how should they kneel? i'm like and don't try and kneel in a certain way or don't try and bend in a certain way, just do what the activity asks of you, you know. And um this ah this idea about perfect posture, even at the posture of our feet, comes from, I think, the militarisation of our society where we're meant to stand up straight and be good citizens and sit at our desk and do our work and make sure we're doing, you know, all this ergonomics, everything needs to be so perfect because we're not moving like were we were adapted to move.
00:17:07
Andy
And so if you um if you think bigger picture, it's not about having perfect posture. It's about taking away the read that the the times where you should, where it might be beneficial to stand up straight in know or sit up straight for a very long time. Like why should you need an ergonomic chair if you are at a standing desk or sitting on the floor and moving around the whole time and for the, dis this is not being visually recorded, I'm at a standing desk and if I wasn't, i'd be having my laptop on a chair and sitting on the floor and moving all the time. So I don't need a perfect posture for my sitting or the ergonomic chair because I don't ever sit for long enough to need to be, make sure I'm in this stiff, perfect position. And so it's similar with our feet. And and that speaks of um the trail walking. A trail is a perfect example of your foot having to move and be adaptable to every um situation. Like you don't know how your foot is gonna land
00:18:05
Andy
And so it needs to be able to do that. And that's a foot in its natural environment. And so then, I'll preempt your question because I've heard these questions. And what about the the surfaces we live in now? They're hard and flat. um If we move, well, they're largely hard and flat. If we move in variable ways on hard and flat surfaces, then our movement is the variation. you know if If you think about the way you might move around your house, there's probably maybe 20 steps a day that are exactly the same as another one you did during the day. But if you're, you know, reaching to get your coffee mug or bending down to, um, clean the cat's litter or something, whatever, you know, your foot is moving in a different way on a hard flat surface all the time. So this idea that hard flat surfaces are an issue is, um, I think is a bit of a furphy. Like it's not a, it's not ah a real deal. Yeah.
00:19:00
Liev Dalton
Amazing, amazing. i Yeah, obviously you kind of read my mind there a little bit. I love that. um Shows that you know your stuff. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the floor setting too and and standing, right? Cause I sit on the floor right now and you're obviously standing, you know, and something like when I do record the podcast, I try not to move around too, too much, right?
00:19:12
Andy
Yes.
00:19:18
Liev Dalton
Just for the visual part of it. But you know, I'm constantly moving my legs, reorienting like the position that I'm in, like. I can also like grab my feet when I'm doing this kind of like breaking the the fourth wall here a little bit, but like I can literally just like massage my feet, like do these foot exercises that like, and I'm sitting here kind of working, you know what I mean?
00:19:33
Andy
Yes.
00:19:37
Liev Dalton
In a way, right? And not that I make any money off this, but like, ah like, you know, I'm sitting here having a chat with you, being able to produce something and I'm kind of like double, you know, you guys can't obviously see what's, what's happening down here, which is funny, but, but it's, it's cool, man.
00:19:49
Andy
Yeah.
00:19:51
Liev Dalton
Like it's a small, it's these small changes that we can make. um, that have profound effects, right? Like I, like it's, doesn't even feel natural for me to try to sit still. Like if I wanted to sit still here for an hour, it just doesn't feel natural at all. Cause I'm on the floor, but you know, when we adapt to these kinds of modern environments, like you mentioned, and even flat floors or, you know, the couch, it's awfully comfortable to sit in the same position and kind of just sink right into it, you know, and sitting on a chair, it's, you can't really get too much movement, you know,
00:20:25
Liev Dalton
So not that it's necessarily bad, but it's just like, it's how much we're doing it, right? We go from the chair to the couch, to the toilet, to the chair, to the couch, to the toilet. It's like this cycle of being in the same position. And I love the way you mentioned is that your next position is the best position. That's beautiful. I love that saying that's great. That's great. I'm so glad you shared that.
00:20:46
Andy
Yeah, and the floor setting is great. Like if ah if you're sitting here for now, it's like you've done a little mini yoga class just on your hips because you have to keep moving. So I prescribe that to people.
00:20:57
Andy
I'm like, okay, so in your downtime, if you were just watching watching Netflix, why don't, and I give them like a little table of me sitting in nine different positions on the floor.
00:21:05
Andy
I just want you to cycle through these. You don't have to, there's no sets and reps. If you're are uncomfortable, move to the next position. Oh yeah, uncomfortable, move to the next position. And you'll you'll work out what your body likes and doesn't like.
00:21:05
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:21:15
Andy
and you know What we see is um people that um have issues with their hip mobility, internal external rotation, this has a huge effect on feet because that's um internal rotation leads to pronation, external rotation leads to supination, and we need those two movements.
00:21:30
Andy
And so, you know, if someone if I find someone's struggling to get out of pronation because they don't have hip external rotation, I get them sitting in more externally rotated positions so their hips get to know this.
00:21:41
Andy
You watch a child, they are moving around beautifully on the floor. And so, you know, I have older people either spend time on the floor with their kids, spend time on the floor with their grandchildren, just because it means you're going to have to move around. And if you're taking away one thing, like the sitting in a chair where you're locked into this 90 degree position, hip flex position, um and and replacing it with something that benefits you.
00:22:06
Andy
um then this is like a habit stack that we're all after, that type of thing. Similarly with shoes, if we remove a shoe that's stiff, cushioned, tapered and healed and put you in a shoe that makes your foot do some work, like it's an easy habit stack. There's no exercises to do in that situation. You just change your shoe and your foot has to do some work. Obviously it's then dose specific and depending on whether someone has pain. um That catch, um I like this analogy about a catch. A catch is super comfortable.
00:22:35
Andy
but you everyone knows you shouldn't sit on the couch all day. like it's It's not a good thing. like Yes, you go and sit there and relax and it's kind of nice, but like how do you feel if you sit on the couch for five hours? similar So when you go to a shoe shop, you're gonna try on your shoote the shoes, and if you're accustomed to sitting on the couch that is your shoe, you're gonna find the squishiest, most comfortable shoe possible and go, that's the right one for me. And I'm gonna spend 10 hours a day in that.
00:23:03
Andy
Well, just liken that to sitting in the couch for 10 hours a day. It's not good for you. This is not good for your feet to be in that situation. Now, if you choose to, if you're used to sitting for 10 hours a day in the couch and then you start moving, it's going to be uncomfortable. So when you start moving, going into a shoe,
00:23:19
Andy
that is making your foot move in, it's probably gonna be a bit uncomfortable because you're not used to it. And so that's where the dose has to be gently increased. You know, you don't go for that long walk or run in your brand new minimalist shoes when you've come straight out of hocus or something like that,
Transitioning to Barefoot Shoes
00:23:38
Andy
which is, yeah.
00:23:38
Liev Dalton
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:39
Andy
see yeah
00:23:41
Liev Dalton
And I did, I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about that too, like transitioning to sort of a more barefoot lifestyle. Um, you obviously opened the door there a little bit. I remember for me, I probably, I didn't do it very gradually.
00:23:52
Liev Dalton
I kind of did it like, I like bought barefoot shoes right before vacation. And then we like walked 30,000 steps a day for like, you know, a week and a half. So then like like every night I get home and like my feet were sore.
00:24:06
Liev Dalton
The funny thing was, is everyone I was traveling with, all of their feet were really sore. But my feet felt like workout sore and theirs felt like like hurt sore.
00:24:14
Andy
Yeah.
00:24:18
Liev Dalton
So i thought I thought that was interesting because like we were still walking a significant amount.
00:24:20
Andy
Yeah.
00:24:22
Liev Dalton
And obviously, like I didn't have you know feet problems per se. I mean, I had pretty flat feet, probably a lot of um you know like arches collapse and stuff like that.
00:24:32
Liev Dalton
but um You know, I was still fairly active, you know, in shape, no pain, stuff like that. So, um, but obviously I could have transitioned a little bit slower. So when I got my wife now on, on the barefoot shoes, she, like her goal was to run like a half marathon. I told her, all right, you're, you're only allowed to run the half marathon if you wear barefoot shoes, because it was the only time that her, her knee wouldn't hurt. If she ran in like regular running shoes, her knees would flare up and they would hurt. Cause she had all these injuries from basketball, whatever.
00:25:05
Liev Dalton
But in the barefoot shoes, it wouldn't hurt. So I got her gradually going and obviously training for a half is a pretty, you know, it's a pretty big thing for a lot of people. Right. I think it's pretty impressive. I had never done it. Um, but you know, you start with a couple of kilometers, you you know, you're gradually building up, you go up, you go down and she ran a half marathon in these shoes and it was like, like a pretty amazing thing. And it was so funny by the end of it. She's running the half and she's looking around at everyone with their big cushy shoes and we're like laughing. We're like, oh, these are, they're all cheating. You're the only one that did it legit. Like, you know, no support. We're just going straight strength of the feet. So anyways, we had to laugh about that, but yeah, this, this transition to barefoot shoes, maybe you can speak a little bit more about that. It's obviously it's dependent, right? And sometimes obviously if you're in pain, it can be really good to work with someone to get a good, like you mentioned dosage of, you know,
00:25:52
Liev Dalton
how to transition properly because it's very holistic, right? You're connecting it to the hips, to that mobility there, like, you know, probably to the spine, stuff like that. Like, so maybe I can give you a floor and just hear you talk about this a bit.
00:26:02
Andy
Yeah, people are already barefoot at home. It often is an easy transition. So I'll be asking people about how much they're barefoot at home. So here in Melbourne, we were locked down more than anywhere else in the world, I think during COVID. And so a lot of people were working from home, they took their shoes off. And so this is like when I was really getting into this work. And so it was kind of convenient for me because I was able to ask people if they were barefoot at home or if they still needed their support when they're at home all this time. And then they'd try and get back into their old work shoes and they really had trouble. So it's like,
00:26:30
Andy
It's almost like a perfect storm for um so barefoot the barefoot um movement, that everyone had to take their shoes off, you know fed food as they should be. you know And so um if someone's barefoot a lot already, then often it can be quite a smooth transition. If they're a mover, if they've got a movement practice, whether it be yoga, Pilates, gym, um like if they've got a a regular multi um faceted movement practice. So if they're just a runner and all they do is run, then I'll be like, oh, this is a red flag. Like you can't just go. um But if they're a runner that does some strength training as well, and then does some mobility work twice a week, then I'll be like, okay, so we we can make, I could predict that that's going to be a smoother transition than just the runner, you know? Or, so it depends on their movement practices. um How much but barefoot they are. I ask questions like, if you go to the beach, can you comfortably walk?
00:27:20
Andy
um for an hour on ah you know on the beach barefoot. Some people are like, no, I never take my shoes off on the beach, which ah just blows me away. um And others are like, oh yeah, but my feet will be a bit sore afterwards. So it's a nice um way to sort of measure where someone's at. And then, um and and from that point, working out whether they can go straight into a minimalist shoe, or there are some shoes that are wide and flexible, but have a little bit of cushioning. And so this kind of meets people that are halfway.
00:27:46
Andy
um Often the cushioning is the thing that people find hardest to go without, but it's still integral to to, like for our foot to function properly, we shouldn't have any cushioning. Like yeah if there's cushioning, then we're not doing the cushioning ourselves. um So the transition should be slowly. That's where people make a mistake. And the barefoot movement well started like thousands of years ago, but um it really kicked off again in early, like around 2010 when a book called Born to Run came out and a whole lot of um runners were inspired to go and run in five-finger shoes because of a um ah tribe of people that still run barefoot in Mexico, I think, or somewhere like that. um And so this so people went out from running 30 miles a week in their normal shoes, and in their you know Nike Pegasus or something, into running 30 miles a week in their five fingers and getting injured. you know They're just getting stress fractures in the foot and they're getting Achilles injuries because it changes the load. And so this time around, this time around in terms of the barefoot movement,
00:28:44
Andy
I guess there's people like me there's the what I call the movement movement which is well um maybe people like you or um people that are trying to rewild maybe more like you as well um themselves and so in that they're a bit more educated about how to do it and so um I think it's ah it's got a bit more of a head of steam up now and and so hopefully people are being a bit more sensible about it. That said most of my work is people try Well, half of my work is people trying to get into minimal shoes too quickly, mostly. And I'm having to troubleshoot for them. You know, something happens. They didn't get away with it like you did. um You know, they they got plantar fasciitis or achilles tendonitis or some other issue because of going too quickly into a minimal shoe when they were so accustomed to wearing big shoes. The caveat there is for children, they are encouraged to be in a barefoot shoe from the start.
00:29:37
Andy
until they're about three or four, and then they go into their little Nikes, their little Asics books, um cushioned, healed, tapered. If we never um Put them in that shoe then I think podiatrists would hardly exist as a profession like that's how big a deal footwear is when it comes to um to Causing issues and and so with kids they can transition very easily into minimalist shoes up to I'd say around 13 or 14 Generally speaking they could just do it just like that. Yeah
00:30:11
Andy
um
00:30:12
Andy
you
00:30:12
Liev Dalton
That's so cool.
00:30:13
Andy
You've touched on a lot of things in that last little chat that i've got I've written down, so I think it's worth talking about.
00:30:13
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:30:14
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:30:18
Andy
First, you talked about your flat feet or low arches. and so um you know Some people have big noses, some people have small noses, but most people can breathe and smell through their noses. and so um Arch height you know is it doesn't matter.
00:30:34
Andy
our tribe doesn't matter There are like very, very tiny percentage of people that have a true flat foot. This is a foot that doesn't pronate and doesn't supinate. It's kind of stuck that way because the bones are joined together um because of congenital deformity to some extent. um But otherwise, there's whole populations of people that have lower arches than whole populations of other people. Just like some builds of race are different to other builds of race. Our feet follow in that racial um those racial patterns and then also genetic patterns as well. And so arch height doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you've got a high arch or a low arch or a medium arch. There's no proper arch or normal arch and um there's very very little if any correlation between arch height and injury in general.
00:31:26
Andy
Some people that have a higher arch foot might be more likely to roll their ankle and some people that have a lower arch foot might be more likely to get a big toe issue, you know, but um it doesn't mean they're more likely to get injured in general, just that the injury becomes a bit more specific. And so um what does matter is how the arch moves. So we want an arch to be able to soften and stiffen or soften and so so drop.
00:31:48
Andy
So from if I was watching someone walk across in front of me, I want to see that the arch drops down, and then I want to see that the arch comes up. So movement matters far more than a static position, similar to that posture. you know People are like, oh, um so often I get asked, oh, my kid's got, their heels are tipped in. you know The heels are tipping in. My kid's got flat feet. Well, children should have really low arches until they're six or eight when their hips start to externally rotate again as they develop. And that will bring the arch up.
00:32:15
Andy
to where it's going to rest or become where it becomes its sort of predestined position. And so um it and when we're standing, it doesn't really matter what position we're in, as long as it can move out of that position if it's uncomfortable. So and that's that's a little thing that I'm passionate about, not demonizing flat feet, basically, or this idea that people have, I pronate, I'm like, well, I hope so, because that's a normal human movement.
00:32:43
Andy
i have flat feet. Well I doubt it because um look when you're walking you're pushing off and your arch is coming up so that's not a true flat foot that doesn't happen. um So I thought we'd touch on that. your Your wife's knees, that's really interesting. um So when we have cushioning in a shoe our foot doesn't need to shock absorb so much um and It doesn't need to do the shock absorption so much. And so the load doesn't, um when when our foot lands, and it's ah when we when we hit the ground, i'll go I'll go back a step, there's ground reaction forces coming into our body. If we don't have any shoe on or a very little shoe without cushioning, our foot's pronation and our knees flexion and our hip flexing and our muscles take this load and share it amongst our body. When we put a cushion on our foot in terms of a conventional shoe,
00:33:33
Andy
the Load skips the foot, so your foot doesn't have to do the shock absorbing and we see more load at the knee, more load at the hip and the lower back. Part one. Part two is when you've got a big cushion, you're allowed to hit the ground a whole lot harder and you don't get any feedback into your nervous system that you're hitting the ground harder, so overall ground reaction forces are higher. So in your life's example of getting sore knees, maybe because of old injuries in basketball, and then running in cushioned shoes,
00:34:03
Andy
Her foot doesn't need to do the shock absorbing. It goes to her knee, the the load. And her nervous system can't regulate how her foot's hitting the ground because it's not getting any feedback. And so there's going to be even more overall load. And so this idea that we need cushioning to support our knees is just like, it's a total fallacy. I was taught that in uni 25 years ago, yet we still prescribe cushion shoes and they're getting bigger and bigger. Running shoes are getting bigger and bigger, which takes me to that your wife at the end of a half marathon saying she's the only one that did it properly. um These big shoes, it's worth talking about big shoes these days, because um everyone's wearing, if you get meant just go down the street, they're all wearing big shoes, but if you go to your local park run or your local half marathon, then everyone in these maximal shoes, that with this big stiff sole, and I don't know if you remember, and you might have heard of him Oscar Pistorius, he was ah he was called the Blade Runner, he had this car, he he was I think he was born without legs from the knees down,
00:34:58
Andy
and i' And he had these carbon plates that helped him run. He made the Olympics for South Africa. End up being you know not such a nice guy, but that's another story. um Anyway, and so the the carbon plate that's in these big maximal shoes means our foot doesn't have to do the work. And so the first brand of these were Nike 4% because they saved our whole body 4% energy.
00:35:22
Andy
because they were doing the work for you. So as a performance tool, I think that's wonderful. you know It's like putting on ah a fast swimsuit or or riding a slick bike um when you're a triathlete or a cyclist. But um as of wearing around the day for all day shoe, then this is not the right thing. And if you really wanna test your human performance like your wife did, then it would be better to do it without the shoe. Because if you go to your local park run, do you have a park run near you? where you it's like a
00:35:53
Liev Dalton
Yeah, yeah, I think we do. Yeah, I've never been, but yeah.
00:35:54
Andy
Well, it's like a five kilometer on a Saturday morning. Everyone goes down that's free and like I'll do it in my sandals, you know, and, and everyone else is in their maximalist shoe.
00:35:59
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:36:03
Andy
But, um, the person that does it in 25 minutes in their normal shoe and then put their maximalist speedy shoe on, they'll do, five like, there's, there's some number, like five or 10% faster because they're in that shoe.
00:36:15
Andy
And this is not, it's not only a performance game for like the elite guys. It's a performance game for like any old runner. And so I understand. than wanting to go faster, but it's kind of cheating to some extent. like You're only cheating yourself. You're only comparing yourself to yourself. you know It's like if you play golf and you've got a handicap of 10, but every third shot you kick the ball from out under the tree, your handicap is 10 plus the kicks out of the tree. you know like You're only cheating yourself. and So it's all good, but don't pretend you're a twenty sub 20 minute park runner if you're wearing a shoe that got you there. you know Especially as the shoe's probably removing you from being able to do it
00:36:53
Andy
properly because you're now not using your foot to do it properly.
00:36:56
Liev Dalton
and
00:36:58
Andy
So um that's what I wanted. So that that all came out of you telling me about your flat feet, your wife's big half marathon.
Running in Vibram FiveFingers: A Personal Story
00:37:06
Andy
Good. Oh no, which shoes did she run it in?
00:37:09
Liev Dalton
And we're the Vibram five fingers.
00:37:10
Andy
Oh, that's awesome. That's so good. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:13
Liev Dalton
Oh yeah, I was, I was pretty impressed. Now I will say this, you know, about our journeys together.
00:37:15
Andy
Yeah.
00:37:18
Liev Dalton
We were surf guards for a number of years. She did for 10 years. I did for seven. And so like we worked on the beaches obviously, and, um, a big part of that is fitness. So we did do a lot of beach runs, which I think was a big help for that, right?
00:37:31
Andy
yeah
00:37:31
Liev Dalton
Cause we never wore shoes obviously, but I remember like that first beach run of the season. Oh my goodness. You know, cause we get winter here, right? So we only get two months of beach, you know, compared to you guys down in in Melbourne there, but, um, you know, like that first run.
00:37:41
Andy
yeah and
00:37:44
Andy
Wow, that's great training. Yeah, yeah.
00:37:48
Liev Dalton
It was brutal, man. Like your, your, your calves, your feet, every muscle in your feet would be sore. But then, you know, by the end of the summer where you were sprinting down the beach, full tilt, your, your legs wouldn't get sore.
00:37:59
Liev Dalton
So we did have that kind of like a couple of months a year training our feet. So we kind of had a little bit of a base there too.
00:38:03
Andy
Yeah.
00:38:06
Liev Dalton
I think that probably helped with the transition when I look back on it.
00:38:07
Andy
It helps hugely. I mean, even your technique changes when you're running ah on a surface that is harder on your feet. You have to like get up onto your mid-foot or your toes more. um you know Can you imagine running through soft sand with over-striding where you put your foot out in front of you, heavy heel strike. I'm not against heel striking, I'm against over-striding. It's going to be like plowing. It's so much harder to work. so If you think about running in the sand, people immediately get into this good posture where they have to really push their legs away from them and their weight is going forward. and so even technique wise, it's like you did two months of technique work every year for seven years, you know.
00:38:48
Liev Dalton
Exactly. Yeah.
00:38:49
Andy
still yeah
00:38:49
Liev Dalton
Yeah. No, it's cool. And i like, I think that like even now when I, when I think about like train my feet, like if I really want to have a good, like, you know, training session for my feet, I'll go to the beach, you know, now that I'm in a position where, you know, I can actually like, I can handle it.
00:39:05
Liev Dalton
It still gives me like a good workout. Like if I go do sprints, I can go do sprints outside. I love sprint and I'll run and stuff like that. But if I go to the beach and do it, it's like another level. You know, and it's so nice to like get that, that nice, like the soft ground.
00:39:18
Liev Dalton
I mean, exposing your feet to these different environments too is, is so important for training. Like earlier you were mentioned in trail stuff, like, like I do want to start trying like trail running.
00:39:28
Liev Dalton
I've never done that, but it's so interesting.
00:39:29
Andy
Yeah.
00:39:30
Liev Dalton
And obviously out in the five fingers, like those are my favorite favorite shoes to wear.
00:39:33
Andy
yeah
00:39:34
Liev Dalton
Like, um, obviously training wise, there might not be the most stylish, but I like them.
00:39:34
Andy
It's the ultimate expression. It's trying to run into the ultimate expression of um of human like that's what we're meant to do really trail and climb and you know um yeah that's I was gonna say something else about that as well it doesn't matter it's fine I've lost it yeah yeah yeah
00:39:57
Liev Dalton
and tom do you if it's If it's meant to be, it'll come. ah So this, like you mentioned, you know, flat beaten, um, talking about how it's not necessarily a bad thing. And you know, how do we even define what a flat foot is? You know, you kind of took this, this interesting point of view that an immobile foot is a problem, right? And and a mobile foot is, is beneficial, um, regardless of your foot anatomy. To some, so to some degree, right. Um, I'm curious about your thoughts on foot anatomy, like toe.
00:40:29
Liev Dalton
placement like big toe placement because you see like these optimal feet where they're like all spread out and they look like two hands pretty well like you know my feet are still kind of seem pretty straight you you know like I'm curious about your thoughts on you know that toe placement does it really need to be ripped out from the rest of the foot is that really optimal is it is it still down to mobility and functionality you know what are your kind of thoughts there
00:40:46
Andy
yeah
00:40:50
Andy
Yeah, so I think if, well, but um you're kind of touching on bunions, which is like a ah change at the base of the big toe, where the big toe gets pushed towards the other toes. And I think in um in shod societies, ah but like we are and in a society where most people wear conventional shoes, there's an incidence of 37% of bunions. In unshod communities, in unshod, people that don't habitually wear shoes, it's 6%. And there's a study um done by MyFootFunction, which are like a global um foot health brand,
00:41:20
Andy
um in Sri Lanka at the moment, they're doing it kind of at the moment or over the last year, where they went to families in Sri Lanka because kids don't put shoes on until they're about 12 and go to senior school and they looked at siblings from 10 to 13 or 10 to 14 say and looking at the change in shoe shape, in foot shape in in from when they're unshod to when they wear shoes for a couple of years and it's remarkable how that changes.
00:41:44
Andy
and so so So so the I'm saying that because I've just told you how posture doesn't matter and shape doesn't matter and all this type of stuff. But if we're in an unnatural environment, a conventional shoe that pushes our toes together, then our big toe is going to get pushed sideways. And our big toe used to and be opposing. like Thousands of years ago, we were having opposing big toe so that we could climb trees. um And so evolution, design, um whichever you favor, um
00:42:17
Andy
changed us so that our big toe doesn't oppose, so we can stand up straight and dominate society by, dominate the world by walking for a long period of time. um Like we became very efficient movers because we lost the ability to oppose our big toe by having a straight big toe. So I would suggest that having a straight big toe is a pretty important thing. um When our foot pronates, rolls in, the one of the the things or the three things that control it are strong hips, strong ankles,
00:42:44
Andy
and a straight big toe. If you can think of your foot rolling in, if your big toe is pushed sideways, there's nothing to stop it from continuing to roll in. And it's very hard, if I've talked about your foot wanting to roll in and then roll out as we push off, it's very hard to roll out if your big toe is not straight. So I've got an Instagram post, it's like, is your big toe straight and does it really matter? Because, but I think it kind of does matter. It's a lot easier, if you've got a straight big toe, it really is helpful.
00:43:10
Andy
um because that stops your foot rolling in when it's meant to and helps you get out of that position. It helps your foot be mobile, you know, like it um controls the mobility and then helps change the mobility, change the shape. So I think it is important. um There are muscles around the big toe that ah get out of whack, as in the one on the inside of the big toe gets weak because it's being pushed by shoes all the time. And the one on the on the like towards the other side where the um all the other toes are gets very strong.
00:43:39
Andy
And so a lot of the rehab I do is get people strengthening the one on the inside, the arch, like sort of like the arch muscle, and then um trying to free up the other one so that their big toe can get straighter or we wear toe spaces, things that help spread our toes. um the The issue for me sometimes is that we're so hell bent on stretching our toes out that we forget that they're actually meant to move, you know. um And so when our foot lands, when our heel hits the ground or our foot hits the ground, the toes are meant to be spreading out, accepting energy. And then as we push off, they're meant to come back together. So they're not meant to be stretched, straight out, spread out all the time or squashed together all the time. They're meant to move just like an arm is meant to move. And so if we look at arch height as well, if we look at say someone like Usain Bolt, the fastest man ever,
00:44:31
Andy
or um LeBron James or these other power, like speedy, fast athletes, they often have low arches because our foot is meant to soften into the ground and spring back. And so if your arch is lower, you're gonna be quicker at doing that. There's less time for your foot to soften. and so um but ah But they also have big toes that push sideways and their toes are squashed together. So it's almost like they miss the spread out part, but they've just got the push off part.
00:45:00
Andy
And so that's maybe why they're so fast, because they just they're always in this position of push off, push off, push off. But they're probably missing out on the accepting of energy. Like when our feet are spreading, that it's accepting energy. Like the muscle is taking on um kinetic energy that should then be released as we push off. So if our foot is always squashed, we're probably missing out on the ability to to accept energy through our foot. We might be accepting it in other muscles and they gets they're obviously elite athletes. But when it needs to be super fast, we don't want too much movement either. So you know it's all activity dependent. I don't know if that really answered it. um you know And some people will have really mobile toes, some people will have stiffer toes, like you know just like their their hips might be stiffer and someone might be or or someone might be hypermobile, so they have really flexible toes.
00:45:50
Andy
um and more of a propensity to to to shock absorb better, but be less good at pushing off. Like this is all variables. There's not one right
Rethinking Plantar Fasciitis
00:45:58
Andy
way. But I think having i think if we all if we never wore shoes, we'd all have straighter big toes and have more functional feet. Yeah. And I did remember um what I thought of before, talking about beach running again at podiatry school. This is how antiquated podiatry school is. We were taught about plantar fasciitis, which is heal pain.
00:46:20
Andy
um Two big things that cause plantar fasciitis is walking on the beach and climbing ladders. Now, this is like, so straight away as a podiatrist student, you're like, oh, be careful about walking on the beach. Be careful climbing ladders. Now, what could be more human than walking on the beach or on an and and ah uneven surface or climbing on uneven surfaces? And so podiatrist school teaches you, be careful of the things that actually are almost the most human things, just to walk on these things, you know? And then they'll tell you,
00:46:50
Andy
that the hard flat surface is terrible as well. So you're coming out going, well, hard flat surfaces, I need a cushion against that. And I'm not to walk on um surfaces that are like a ladder, you know, that have something that pushes into my arch. But this is what you should do. is This is what your foot should be able to tolerate. So um I'd love to get into pediatrics school and get in there and say, how about we train people to be able to do these things and then they'll be more resilient?
00:47:15
Andy
I'm definitely making an Instagram post about that. Thank you for um triggering that mind.
00:47:21
Liev Dalton
Yeah. Well, I mean, like that was probably one of the last things I was going to ask you about was about um plantar fasciitis. Cause I find it's a really common, it's really common one.
00:47:28
Andy
yeah
00:47:30
Liev Dalton
You hear it all the time, you know, like, um, even when people ask me about my, you know, my, my shoes, right? My flat shoes or my five fingers, they'll say, you know, I could never wear them.
00:47:41
Liev Dalton
I have plantar fasciitis. You hear that all the time. And I'm like. You know, one of my answers is like, yeah, I really hope that I never get that. That's kind of one of the, like, I really want to strengthen my feet. And, um, you know, that's kind of one of the reasons why I'm doing this.
00:47:49
Andy
Yeah.
00:47:52
Liev Dalton
And they're like, you know, I feel like there's a little bit of like, uh, resistance there because they're like, you know, like, I really can't do that. Like they really, like, I can't, I could never ever wear like bare foot or whatever it is.
00:48:05
Liev Dalton
Right. So, um, maybe we could dive into it just a little bit here and then we'll, we'll wrap things up and.
00:48:09
Andy
next So the plan of the Plan of Fascia is this band of connective tissue across the soul of our force and it's um
00:48:16
Liev Dalton
Yeah.
00:48:17
Andy
Job is to relax as we land and then tighten as we push off. And it's supported by four layers of muscles that are meant to be doing the same thing. So if we go back to that um principle of specific adaptation to impose demand, if your foot is not um moving much, and if it's constantly supported, then those muscles that are meant to be helping the plantar fascia often aren't doing much and aren't very help aren't very um healthy, we could say. And so when we scan, ul when we take a scan to see to diagnose plantar fasciitis or plantar fasciosis, whatever, there's got a few different terms, we see a thickening of the plantar fascia. It's like a response of the body because it's being overloaded and then that triggers pain in that area. And and so um it's there are four big things that cause plantar fasciitis, I would say. Someone who's overweight is more likely to get it. Someone who someone who has weak calves, weak feet,
00:49:13
Andy
or has done too much too soon. So even you, who accomplished barefoot wearer, could tick one of those boxes. You could do too much too soon and still get plantar fasciitis. So most people end up with orthotics or cortisone or shockwave therapy, all these types of things. kind of The plantar fasciitis didn't come because they didn't have an orthotic.
00:49:35
Andy
It didn't come because they weren't having a cortisone injection. It didn't come because they didn't have shockwave therapy. It came because they were either overweight or a combination of these things. Doing too much. Had weak feet, weak calves. So we should be addressing those things. So how do we address those things? We move more um and in variable ways and be sensible about load management. You know, like don't do too much too soon. That's your load management. Watch what you're eating, how you're sleeping.
00:50:02
Andy
um your general health, that's looking after um the overweightness. And then I can give you foot exercises, they're hella boring, they're the most boring type of exercises you can do. Or you could wear a shoe that makes your foot move and your foot's gonna get stronger with every step, but that's gotta be graduated, you know, like you don't wanna do too much too soon there, otherwise it will make it worse. And your calves will get stronger as well, because they're gonna have to work harder. So, and a habitual change like going into barefoot shoes, so you could, you could
00:50:32
Andy
like in five minutes when someone says that to you, you could say, well these are the four causes of plantar fasciitis and I'm making sure I'm not doing too much, I'm not overweight, um too much too soon I should say, I'm not overweight and guess what, the shoe are the answer to the issue to some extent. Like when I see people though, I'm moving them towards less shoe but it has to be done very gradually because they're already upset and I'm giving them the boring foot exercises, I'm giving them the boring calf exercises and I'm giving them lifestyle and load management advice.
00:51:02
Andy
um I'm not using shockwave therapy, orthotics, cortisone, anything, and a massive dose of education, because um if we look at the research, when someone gets plantar fasciitis, 12 months later, nearly everyone's better. What we did in between doesn't really matter. If we look at three months down the track and they had orthotics, then maybe they're a little bit better than if they only had shockwave therapy, or if they had shockwave therapy, maybe they're not nearly maybe they're a little less better than if they did exercise rehab, three months in, six months in, but 12 months in, we're all pretty much in the same spot, no matter what we did. So some people will say, well, shockwave therapy or cortisone fixed my planar fasciitis. And so then when they get it again two years later, because they did too much or they've eaten badly or their foot's even less mobile and strong,
00:51:54
Andy
They go, oh, I know what fixes plantar fasciitis. I'll go and get another cortisone injection. So what I like to do is educate someone that this is going to be possibly a 12-month thing anyway. I would like you to come out of that 12 months with stronger feet, stronger calves, more knowledge about load management, and looking after yourself a bit better, you know, if it's a weight issue. And straight away you get by and they're like, oh, this guy actually just wants no not to have me come back for another cortisone injection in a year's time.
00:52:22
Andy
and he wants me not to get plantar fasciitis again because we're we're addressing the cause rather than just band aiding symptoms.
00:52:33
Liev Dalton
I love it, man. That, you know what, that is like exactly what we're all about here. So that's why I love this philosophy.
00:52:37
Andy
yeah
00:52:38
Liev Dalton
It's so holistic, so considerate of, you know, long-term, you know, even short-term. It's amazing. I really love this field. I love this area of, you know, fitness and wellness.
00:52:49
Liev Dalton
And, um, it's one of the, you know, personally, one of the best things that I did for my overall physical, you know, health in a way, right?
00:53:01
Liev Dalton
Like it it really like, you know, even just the philosophy of kind of looking a little bit deeper, looking at the root causes, like all of that just kind of helped my understanding of health in general. Um, you know, trying to look for, for the root.
00:53:13
Liev Dalton
So any final thoughts on the episode? Anything you want to leave the
Broader Health Insights from Foot Health
00:53:17
Liev Dalton
listeners with or add here?
00:53:17
Andy
Well, we call it um the gateway drug. you know like it's a Getting into foot health is because you start questioning everything. yeah You get a sore shoulder, you're like, well, this was my foot.
00:53:27
Liev Dalton
It's a gate wager.
00:53:27
Andy
I started mobilizing the strength of my feet. Why shouldn't I be doing this to my shoulder? Or any every other aspect of your health, you start questioning, like ah um is what we're being told? Because culture and convention tell us to support, if you start questioning that, then you start questioning a whole lot of other stuff about your health.
00:53:43
Andy
So it's a little bit of a gateway drug. That's a good way to finish.
00:53:47
Liev Dalton
Amazing.
00:53:48
Andy
Yeah, try it.
00:53:48
Liev Dalton
Is that the good, that's how you want to end her off. Perfect. Like I love the, the folks on movement as well. Right. Folks on movement. That's what it's all about. So, um, listen, how can the listeners find you?
00:53:56
Andy
yeah
00:54:00
Liev Dalton
How can they learn more from you? How can they support you?
00:54:02
Andy
Yeah, the easiest um way is through my Instagram, which is Andy Brian underscore podiatrist, um where I just, you know, probably five times a week, put some foot health stuff out there, like natural foot health stuff out there. And then I'm also,
00:54:15
Andy
consult as an educator for a group called the Foot Collective and they're a global health um company where with online programs and a network of professionals that work like I do and I provide education for those professionals and so if you're looking for a professional similar to me then that's a great way to um so plug in through the Foot Collective. yeah
00:54:39
Liev Dalton
Amazing. Amazing. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. We'll put all the links down below. Uh, so it'll be easier for you guys to find him. His page is amazing. Like I've learned so much from, from this gentleman, just even through social media, right?
00:54:50
Liev Dalton
that That's one of the beauties of social media if used properly, you know, um, we can connect with amazing minds. I mean, we are as far away as two human beings can be. And here we are connecting.
00:54:59
Andy
and through
00:55:00
Liev Dalton
So I'm really grateful for your time. I'm really grateful for everything that you've shared today. So thank you. Thank you for everything.
00:55:05
Andy
It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
00:55:08
Liev Dalton
Certainly. And I want to thank you all for listening. You shall all know that's not medical advice or physiotherapy advice or any advice of any kindness for your informational purpose only. But also remember that we're all responsible, sovereign, being, capable of thinking, criticizing, understanding, absolutely anything. We, the people who are greater force are together, self healers, self-governable self-governable, self teachers, and so much more. Make sure to reach out any questions, criticisms, comments, concerns. You don't want to find me on Instagram. It's one of the best ways to reach me. Email is fine. YouTube comments are fine. I answer pretty well everywhere at some point. So just be patient if I don't get to you right away about it.
00:55:39
Liev Dalton
Listen, I really appreciate y'all for taking the time to listen today. If you did like the podcast, fair and informative, give us a like, share, comment, review, subscribe, um braiding, whatever you got to do in the platform you're on. Be much appreciated. Sharing is always the best way, of course. And just remember, there are two types of people in the world. Those believe they can, those believe they can't, and they are both correct. Thanks for listening, guys. Take care.