Transcript
Beyond Terrain: rainsky Thank you so much for your time, for all the wisdom that you've shared already into the world and everything that you've done. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Beyond Terrain: Of course, of course. I ask all my guests a little introductory question. I'd like for you to give us a little definition of health. What does health mean? How does it manifest? You can take it any direction that you'd like.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, you know, my main emphasis was on mental health.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And
Jerry Marzinsky: I think that would be just being, you know, calm, peaceful, um functional. and not full of neurosis and and anxiety and paranoia and fear and all those negative emotions that psychiatry just tamps down you know with with their drugs.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I think that would also include a positive spiritual component. you know Without that, i don't I don't think you can progress past a certain point.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, it's it's clear that there's something running things on this planet.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, the trees, the birds, everything is so perfect and balanced and, you know, to be in harmony with that. You know, and also with spirit, you know, because I guarantee you there's a lot of evil spirits on this planet.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Absolutely.
Beyond Terrain: certainly is.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, I've seen them, I've spoken to them, I've seen them in schizophrenia, schizophrenics. The The psychiatric mafia insists that the voices that schizophrenics hear are auditory hallucinations.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: I tell you, I've been studying those things for 25 years or more. They're not hallucinations. They run fixed, repeatable patterns.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: Hallucinations are random. They're all over the place. They're positive. They're negative. They don't make any sense. The patterns that these voices run that schizophrenics hear They run fixed repeatable patterns.
Jerry Marzinsky: And if they do that, they can't be hallucinations.
Jerry Marzinsky: they're They're consistently negative. It's like they're not sometimes positive, you know sometimes neutral. you know that they're They're consistently negative.
Jerry Marzinsky: So the question when I started investigating the voices that at a, one of the biggest psychiatric hospitals on the planet, Central State Hospital in Georgia, when I first graduated from graduate school, you know I was wondering, and what are these things?
Jerry Marzinsky: you And I'd been brainwashed in graduate school too to believe that they were hallucinations.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: But the closer I looked at it, the less sense that made.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: you know And the other thing that was really strange is that None of the staff at this giant hospital, and there were hundreds of staff at this place. I mean, it was immense. It sprawled over 2,000 acres, I believe it was.
Jerry Marzinsky: There were like over 200 buildings there. Nobody was interested and what these voices were saying. Nobody asked the schizophrenics, what are you hearing?
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And I started asking the staff, and what are these things? so oh they're hallucinations. Well, How do you know? Well, everybody knows that. and Based on what? Turns out they hadn't done any investigation whatsoever into what these things were. The psychiatric mafia were like the ancient Egyptian priests of old.
Jerry Marzinsky: They just went, we hereby proclaim that these voices are hallucinations because we said so. Not based on any kind of research or any kind of any tangible evidence whatsoever.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then they started printing that. They started putting it in their textbooks. so No research, you know no no ground to stand on.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So this is what they're teaching in the graduate schools.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: But when I got there, I saw that there was a one-to-one correspondence between how much trouble these schizophrenics were getting into at the hospital and how strong their voices were, how persistent their voices were.
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, they would they would sabotage themselves just as they were about to graduate from one of the vocational programs. um They'd start fights. they'd they They would not allow themselves to succeed.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it
Jerry Marzinsky: didn't make any sense. So I started asking them what these voices were telling And it turned out that from what I was hearing was that It was all negative stuff. You're no good, you're rotten, you're evil, you're ugly, nobody likes you.
Jerry Marzinsky: Every rotten thing you can think of, these things were telling these people.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it it took about a year to figure out, i mean, how to how to talk to them about the voices. Because the voices themselves don't want anybody asking questions. They don't want anybody talking about them. They don't want anybody believing that they're anything other than hallucinations.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they gave the patients a ah lot of trouble when they started telling the truth about what these things were. They would give them headaches, they would give them anxiety, they would threaten them.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: And the first trouble I got into, or now now at this time I ah found that there were two patterns that I saw. They were completely negative.
Jerry Marzinsky: My question there is like, what holds them on a completely negative trajectory? How come they're not random like all other hallucinations?
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: Why are they consistently negative? What holds them on that path? The second thing I saw was that they were anti-religious. If these patients tried to go to church or tried to read the Bible or tried to say the 23rd Psalm board or did anything religious or spiritual, these things would go nuts.
Jerry Marzinsky: They couldn't stand it. I had patients come to me and tell me, well, when I tried to repeat the 23rd Psalm, the voices went crazy. I remember this one guy said they reacted like worms thrown on a hot frying pan.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then one of the patients that I was asking his voices about, the voices got all upset and he he went and he told one of the psychiatrists.
Jerry Marzinsky: And the next morning I ended up in the psychiatrist's office, you know,
Jerry Marzinsky: um on the red carpet with the psychiatrist ordering me not to ask any questions about the voices.
Beyond Terrain: Wow. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: He said, they are hallucinations and that's all they are.
Beyond Terrain: Wow. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: And what you're doing is just reinforcing these hallucinations and making the patients worse. you know And he kind of threatened me, said, you keep doing this, there will be repercussions.
Jerry Marzinsky: I'm like, well, ain't that interesting. you know They won't even let you question. you know these things. So I had to really slow down and and go into like low gear.
Jerry Marzinsky: had to be real careful about how many questions I asked and their reactions to them. um
Jerry Marzinsky: But there were there were a couple other patterns I discovered there between the, beside the anti-religious. There was a, they fostered negative emotion, right?
Beyond Terrain: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they would, they would say all these rotten things to the patient about it themselves. to generate negative emotion. And then all of a sudden, their energy would leave. Okay, the voices would attack and their energy would leave. It went down to nothing.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it's like, they wonder, where did it go? So i was did some experiments with that. I did a ah one to 10 kind of thing.
Jerry Marzinsky: How much energy did you have before the voices attacked you? how many energy How much energy did you have after they attacked you? Just a one to 10 scale. And after the attacks, after the voices attacked them, their energy level was in the dumps.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I'm like, okay, something's going on here. These things appear to be draining these patients. So I would ask them about that. They weren't even aware of it because they were in so much misery you know just feeling their energy level disappear, it wasn't even noticeable to them.
Jerry Marzinsky: um
Jerry Marzinsky: But what I found is so when I started questioning them about it, they weren't aware of it until it was brought up. so I would ask them, how much energy do you have before?
Jerry Marzinsky: How much energy do you have after the voices attack? They'd say, have much less after they attack. And I'd ask them, well, you didn't use that energy. Where do you think it went?
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, well, I don't know, they they would say. they They actually didn't know. you know
Beyond Terrain: um
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'd ask them, I said,
Jerry Marzinsky: well, that the your energy disappeared while you were being attacked by the voices, right? And they would say, yeah. I said, well, listen, if far if you stuck your hand in a fire hundred times and every time you got burnt, what was burning you?
Jerry Marzinsky: They go, oh, they didn't have any trouble with the fire. I said, well, you you've been hearing these voices for years, you know, thousands of times, and every time they're screaming at you, your energy would drop down to nothing.
Beyond Terrain: Thank
Jerry Marzinsky: said, well, where do you think you're your energy went? They couldn't make the connection with the voices. It was like they were being blocked. Some of them, very few of them would say, the voices took it.
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah, so that's what it looks like.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: But that was a consistent pattern. When the voices attacked them, their energy level went down to nothing.
Beyond Terrain: Interesting. Negative.
Jerry Marzinsky: So what these things are is they're psychological so parasites.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: They feed off of negative emotion. So that that's why They're being told, the voices are telling these patients, you're rotten, you're no good, you're evil, nobody likes you, you're miserable, youre why don't you just go ahead and kill yourself?
Jerry Marzinsky: It's always negative stuff. It's to generate that negative emotional energy, which they feed off of.
Beyond Terrain: and
Jerry Marzinsky: They can't stand positive energy. They can't stand the patient going to church. They can't stand them praying. They can't stand them feeling good. They don't want them to be happy. They they for forbid them to watch comedy, all right?
Jerry Marzinsky: um
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: so they there's a pattern of energetically draining these people
Beyond Terrain: So,
Beyond Terrain: course. yeah Yeah, you know, when you talk about them, you talk about the voices as like being external, right? It's probably the only time that these individuals have ever been spoken to in such a narrative that it's like, you're actually not broken. You don't have, it's not an intrinsic thing, right? Like you're talking about it like it's an external thing. The voice is being something that is latching on to you, not something that's being hallucinated and created from the mind.
Jerry Marzinsky: Right.
Beyond Terrain: Can you speak a little bit more about that external nature of it?
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah, it's, it's they they um they do come in from the outside, but what they do is they're energetic entities.
Jerry Marzinsky: They're like spiritual entities, all right?
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And man is spirit too. I mean, you're spirit. this is This is like a car. Your body's like a car. So, You're spiritual, they're spiritual. They can put thoughts into your thought stream that sound just like you.
Beyond Terrain: sure sure
Jerry Marzinsky: Just like the thousands of other thoughts that go through your mind on a normal day. And you don't even notice a difference. it's It's not like when they come in, they go, we are the voices, and you know, they sound very different.
Jerry Marzinsky: No, it sounds just like all the other thousands of thoughts that you have during a day.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: But the intent is very different.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: It's like, well, you're no good. Nobody likes you. You're stupid. and Why did you say that? um you know it's it's it It's always negative stuff.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they don't just hit schizophrenics. They hit us all.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know I mean, how many people have been driving down the road and kind of went, oh, well, I wonder what it would be like to drive my car into oncoming traffic. Or you're standing on a bridge and you go, oh, I wonder what it'd be like to jump.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know Where did those thoughts come from?
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. No.
Jerry Marzinsky: Nobody asks where thoughts come from. Not psychology, not psychiatry, not social work, nobody. They just assume that you always have thoughts, that they belong to you, that they're in your head.
Beyond Terrain: so
Jerry Marzinsky: That's way wrong.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It works.
Jerry Marzinsky: Emanuel Swedenborg, Christian mystic, lived 300 years ago. He said, none of your thoughts are yours. You are like the receptor. You're like the radio.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: receiver, you know, and where your frequency is turned to, that's the stations that you're going to bring in. You know, so if you're generally positive and you're happy and and spiritual, you're tuned to that frequency.
Jerry Marzinsky: These negative entities are going to have a hard time breaking into that frequency because it's toxic to them.
Beyond Terrain: Amen. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: What they want to do is tune these people down to a negative frequency and then increase that negative frequency and then they feed off it. So they're actually injecting negative thoughts into the schizophrenic thought stream to turn their emotional state negative, and then they drain them dry.
Jerry Marzinsky: Now how they do that, I have no idea, but I've seen it thousands of times. I've heard it thousands of times.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They just suck the energy right out of them. I've had prisoners when I worked in the psychology department of the prison where they told me they were drained so bad after a night of hearing the voices that they they couldn't even get up to go to breakfast.
Jerry Marzinsky: and I'd ask them, well, where did your energy go? i mean, you were laying in bed all night tossing and turning. And they were telling me that they felt like they were digging ditches in the hot sun all day.
Jerry Marzinsky: That's what they felt like. That's how drained they were. They couldn't even get out of bed.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I'd ask them, well, where'd your energy go? You didn't use it, right? No, I didn't use it. You know and And when you start talking about that to them, the voices start kicking up. They don't like it.
Jerry Marzinsky: They don't like you asking those kinds of questions. They'll get louder. They'll tell the person, this guy's crazy. Get away from him. This is nonsense. you know Go somewhere else.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. It's like a, a feedback loop, right? It's like the negativity just feeds and keeps feeding and feeding and feeding, you know?
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah, and and and they keep pouring, ah gasoline on the fire to to get it raging, you know, to get it, get these people to feel worse and worse and worse.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they try to cut off everybody who tries to help the schizophrenic too. You know, they'll tell this the <unk> schizophrenic that his mom and dad are against him. They really don't care for him. They're plotting behind his back. They're trying to get rid of him. They they really secretly hate him.
Jerry Marzinsky: With boyfriends and girlfriends, they'll tell, you know, the boy that the girl's cheating on you and the girl that the the boy's cheating on you. Same thing with married people.
Beyond Terrain: Really? No.
Jerry Marzinsky: They want to break up relationships. They can't stand relationships. you They can't stand children.
Beyond Terrain: positive
Jerry Marzinsky: So children are at grave risk when when the parents are schizophrenic.
Beyond Terrain: yeah really
Jerry Marzinsky: They hate children.
Beyond Terrain: no
Jerry Marzinsky: And you look what's going on in the the United States right now with you know the child trafficking being up until Trump's time, one of the biggest, you know,
Jerry Marzinsky: Scams out there. I mean, the child trafficking was billion dollar business supported by the the Biden government, you know, the deep state government.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: You look what's happening in England right now. Stormer refuses to investigate the gang rapes, just completely refuses to and even look into them.
Jerry Marzinsky: That's evil right there and then.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, it's there. So there's like 23 different patterns For all of you guys that are out there that are working with schizophrenics, they're on my website at jerrymarzinski.com.
Jerry Marzinsky: Go there, then go to articles and look up the patterns that these things run. You will see for yourself. If you're working with schizophrenics, you'll see these patterns for yourself.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's not like they're hidden. it's They're right there. They'll be right but right in front of your eyes. The other ones are they they get louder after sunset, which is interesting.
Beyond Terrain: Just tomorrow.
Jerry Marzinsky: They get louder when ignored. So I don't know how many times I'd i'd hear psychiatrists saying, well, they're just hallucinations or just ignore them.
Beyond Terrain: la
Jerry Marzinsky: And i'd I'd bring the patient back in later. I'd say, well, how's that working for you? They say, not working at all. They all said they get louder if ignored. They will not be ignored. They get louder and moreent more persistent.
Jerry Marzinsky: They foster self-destructive behavior. You know, they sabotage the person's work. They sabotage their relationships. they They sabotage their their work. They sabotage everything.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they they want the person to destroy themselves. They foster isolation. They don't want anybody being around.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So, you know, moms and dads who have schizophrenic kids, they find those kids barricade themselves in the room. They don't want to be bothered. you know They don't want to interact with anybody. They don't want to go anywhere. They don't want to do anything.
Jerry Marzinsky: They just want to sit there and listen to the voices. And that's what the voices, that's exactly what they want. That's the worst thing you could do with a schizophrenic family member is let them be isolated with the voices because then they have nothing to distract them from them.
Jerry Marzinsky: And the voices have complete access. They don't even have to fight for for attention. It's right there.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they demand the attention of the victim. They manipulate perception. Um, They have complete access to the schizophrenic's memory. They can go in there and they can pull up every rotten thing that that schizophrenic has done and throw it in their face until they get them feeling rotten.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then they they extract their energy.
Jerry Marzinsky: And there this goes on and on. There's like 23 of these different patterns. All you gotta do is go to my website and see them for yourself.
Beyond Terrain: Sure. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They're right there, they're right in your face.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Anybody doubts this, go look. You have schizophrenic patients, you have schizophrenic family, go look. You'll see these these things right there in your face. And if they're running patterns, they can't be hallucinations like the psychiatric mafia says they are.
Beyond Terrain: yeah Yeah, it's not random. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: No, they're not random at all.
Beyond Terrain: So
Jerry Marzinsky: So...
Beyond Terrain: within the context of randomness, like, you know, not that they're, you know, we can, it's so clearly laid out now that they're, they don't act like hallucinations in any respect, but is the, like the individual who is presenting as schizophrenic, who is hearing the voices, is that random? Is that trauma related? Is it like, how does one develop the voices? Is it just constant negativity over time? I remember reading,
Beyond Terrain: I, my listeners will not reference this book all the time, how to become a schizophrenic by John Modrow. And it was the, the story of how, you know, he was treated like somebody who was insane and you know, how he kept kind of toe in the line of doing some, maybe a little outlandish stuff and just develop more and more and more and being told that he was problematic kid and different stuff like that, you know, like, is, the is there the trauma component?
Beyond Terrain: Cause we've heard stories, you know, uh,
Jerry Marzinsky: Yes, there's definitely, ah definitely.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: No doubt about it. You talk to schizophrenics, all virtually all of them have been severely traumatized, either physically, mentally, or emotionally traumatized, severely.
Beyond Terrain: Every single one of them.
Beyond Terrain: the
Jerry Marzinsky: So you know that's kind of like, so these things are like, they hit us all, like I told you. you know They're hitting us all, they're knocking on everybody's door, seeing how far they can get.
Beyond Terrain: course.
Jerry Marzinsky: um
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And when they when they hit somebody that's traumatized, that's like loose, you know, there's that negative energies right there. They don't have to work to generate it.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: All they gotta do is go in there and pour gasoline on the fire, make them feel worse.
Beyond Terrain: sir
Jerry Marzinsky: And then they have ah and another source of food for them. So yeah, you talk to schizophrenics, virtually all of them were badly traumatized.
Jerry Marzinsky: And you know never really recovered from that trauma.
Jerry Marzinsky: Another major cause of schizophrenia is amphetamine. I've seen more prisoners go crazy on amphetamine than any other drug out there.
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, it happens with cocaine. It'll happen with some of the other drugs, but nothing like with amphetamine. it's It's one of the most dangerous drugs out there besides fentanyl. right the the All the prisoners, they they named amphetamine the devil's drug.
Jerry Marzinsky: and So, and the the way it happens, I mean, you start taking amphetamine, you feel great, like Superman. You know, you have tons of energy, you feel wonderful, you get a lot of things done.
Beyond Terrain: Sure. Yeah. Good.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then then you crash. you know But during the high, it's it's a nice high. you You feel super energetic, you're happy, you can concentrate.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: i mean, and then, you know, then after a while, You start hearing voices, you know, and and you go, oh, well, they're just hallucinations.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So you just, they just ignore it. Like, okay, you know, they'll go away when I come down and they do. know, and that may happen 20, 25, 50, 75 times. And then one day they don't go away.
Jerry Marzinsky: They're there forever.
Beyond Terrain: ah
Jerry Marzinsky: And and that that person is now as crazy as any other schizophrenic. The voices will not leave.
Jerry Marzinsky: and and then they're stuck with them for the rest of their lives.
Beyond Terrain: Very interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: So psychiatry, psychology don't have any cause for schizophrenia.
Beyond Terrain: What about
Jerry Marzinsky: you know they they
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They started this chemical imbalance crap. It's a complete lie. It's ah a total fabrication. It was started by a a drug company by the name of eli Lilly,
Jerry Marzinsky: in the 1980s when they came out with the antidepressant Prozac. They had no idea how it worked. So they just made something up so they didn't look like fools. you know So they made up this, ah you know hey, well, this this is a drug, we put the drug in the body, it reacts with other drugs, and it you know but so balances something in there where these people don't feel quite as depressed.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they they introduced it as a drug, and mental ah health and mental illness as a biochemical imbalance. There was nothing to it.
Jerry Marzinsky: Matter of fact, that's been disproved over and over again. you know Peter Brigham, in his book, Toxic Psychiatry, 1991, points out in his book that toxic psychiatry, drug count the drug company Eli Lilly advanced the chemical imbalance theory as a marketing scheme to sell their drug Prozac.
Jerry Marzinsky: There wasn't any demonstrable evidence showing that depressed patients had any imbalance whatsoever. Didn't matter. Lilly ran with it and promoted it and published it and then sold it to the university saying, oh yeah, with this is research back.
Jerry Marzinsky: Then the university started teaching it. And it was bunk. It was garbage. you know Before long, psychiatrists and psychiatists and patients came to identify with mental disorders as being caused by a chemical imbalance of the brain.
Beyond Terrain: Still understand.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's a complete lie.
Beyond Terrain: Still say
Jerry Marzinsky: And you look at you look at what's happening in psychiatry now. Any of you guys who've gone to a psychiatrist, you know, with the idea that you have some kind of chemical imbalance, you watch what that psychiatrist does.
Beyond Terrain: it. Mm-hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: Does he give you any kind of objective test to find out what chemicals are out of balance in your brain and by how much? oh No, no.
Jerry Marzinsky: He won't give you one because none exist.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: None freaking exist.
Beyond Terrain: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: This is a farce made up by psychiatry and the frigging slime bucket drug companies to sell their toxic drugs. right
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So there is no baseline. They just start off with, well, objective opinion. I think, well, we'll start with this drug. And if that doesn't work, we'll either increase it, decrease it or start another drug. It's like a dartboard. They just, it's all subjective. There's no science to it at all.
Jerry Marzinsky: There is no baseline. They have no baseline. They don't have anything to measure. They don't even know what the chemical imbalance of the brain should be, let alone what's out of balance.
Beyond Terrain: though. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's a farce. I mean, this it's disgusting. It's just it's just totally disgusting.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. So with, with anti psychotics, then, you know, we, we take like, you know, if you have hallucinations, you take them, like you were talking about earlier, how we're kind of a receiver and we have these energies that can kind of lat latch onto us in a way, or we can receive these energies, right. Cause our physical vessels are kind of like that receiver. Now,
Beyond Terrain: the antipsychotics as an analogy might numb the receiver but it doesn't necessarily make the energies go away because what you see what you see is after you come off the antipsychotics it's like way worse than before and they say you you're not taking your drugs so you know you're you got to get back on them you know that's kind of the message that's that's told to the to the people right like
Jerry Marzinsky: That's exactly right.
Beyond Terrain: when you're not on the drugs, your receiver is not numb. So you're not being healed or cured or treated or whatever.
Jerry Marzinsky: Right, and yeah, basically those drugs are major tranquilizers
Beyond Terrain: Right. So.
Jerry Marzinsky: they're just They're just calming the person down, which does help.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know balance
Beyond Terrain: Sure. Mm
Jerry Marzinsky: Now the downside of that is that they're also toxic neurologically. Now they won't tell you that, and I've never heard in my entire career, psychiatrist tell the patient that these drugs are toxic psychiatrically, that they rot your brain out with long-term use.
Beyond Terrain: hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: They found that out by doing autopsies with patients in state hospitals. So when they when they went to look at their brains after they'd been on these drugs for years, they saw their their brains were shrunk like walnuts.
Jerry Marzinsky: They were totally abnormal brains. And they said, this is appearing time after time after time after time with these patients and all these autopsies. So some honest researchers published that.
Jerry Marzinsky: The psychiatric mafia and the drug companies went nuts. They went, oh no, it's it's it's not our drugs. It's the schizophrenia that's doing this. You know, leave us.
Jerry Marzinsky: it's It's schizophrenia. It's not our drugs. Yeah, so the researchers went, okay, all right. we started They started feeding the these drugs to rats and monkeys and mice and found that their brains were rotted out also,
Jerry Marzinsky: The drug companies didn't like that.
Beyond Terrain: Wow, yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And the psychiatrists didn't like that.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they're not telling their patients that. Now, what might appear in the side effects is something like, well, acanasia or all these fancy psychiatric words that the average guy isn't going to have any idea what they mean, you know, but it's, it's that trembling, you know, you you'll see long-term schizophrenics, they're like this, they're trembling.
Jerry Marzinsky: And when it gets worse, and and then they're, then they're, then they're tongue darting, like, no, no, no, totally out of control of the patient.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Sure. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's totally due to these fricking schiz, these, these drugs, these antipsychotic drugs, these phenothiazines. And the side effects are awful. You know, you here's some some common ones.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: so Dizziness, drowsiness, anxiety, sleep problems, insomnia. It's this agitated tiredness. So you're youre dead tired, but you're agitated you can't sleep.
Jerry Marzinsky: Breast swelling, changes in menstrual period, weight gain, swelling in the hands and feet, dry mouth, stuffy nose, blurred vision, constipation. I mean, that's just a few of them, you
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Confusion, agitation, jitteriness, stiffness in the neck, tightness, tightness in your throat, breathing problems, confusion, agitation, um weakness, seizures, jauntice. I mean, it goes on and on and on.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know These are horrible, horrible side effects.
Jerry Marzinsky: Virtually every schizophrenic that I worked with at some point
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: went off their drugs because they couldn't stand these side effects.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I was working at the state hospital then also, and I'm going, you know, well, going back a few years before that, when when this first hit me, I was saw doing my rounds on the first floor of this big psychiatric unit.
Beyond Terrain: Can't blame them. Oh, no.
Jerry Marzinsky: And here was this maintenance man, he was cutting off the bottom cap to the stairwell that went up to the second floor. So here's this big pipe around, about this big around, which was a stairwell.
Jerry Marzinsky: Now the the cap at the top of the stairwell was missing. So it was just this open pipe there. And I noticed that, but I didn't pay any attention to it. So here one day i'm making my rounds and here's this maintenance man with a grinder. He's cutting the cap off the bottom.
Jerry Marzinsky: had no idea why he was doing that. but it was the most interesting thing going on at the time. And all the patients were standing around watching the sparks fly in the smoke. And it's like a little 4th of July fireworks show.
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I just joined them. I would joined in there with the patients and I'm watching this and go, yeah, yeah, this is cruel. And then when that cap fell off, this waterfall of thousands of pills that had been collecting in that, the the patients had been throwing them down that banister for decades.
Jerry Marzinsky: thousands of them, they came out like a multicolored waterfall, just spread all over the floor, know, and I'm standing there like watching that with my mouth open, thinking every single one of these is a decision by some patient through the years to not take these drugs and to not stay sane.
Jerry Marzinsky: So man, it just, it just like, why is this happening? What, and why, Why are they doing this? Why are they? Because back then, this was in the 70s. We didn't know anything like what we know today.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know and And the only treatment for schizophrenia back then what were these drugs. That's all they had. you know All the counseling theories, all the stuff that they taught us in graduate school, undergraduate, had no effect on schizophrenics.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know It's like shooting a BB rhino in the butt with a BB rifle. You could talk to them, they're blue in the face.
Beyond Terrain: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: It didn't affect their behavior hardly at all. The only control that we did have over them were these drugs. And it calmed them down. They got into less fights. They were less agitated.
Jerry Marzinsky: um The voices were more subdued. They never went anywhere. They didn't disappear. They were still there. They were still telling them the same rotten stuff. You know, they were still sabotaging them. They were still eroding their self-confidence.
Jerry Marzinsky: But these guys weren't acting out as much.
Beyond Terrain: Sure. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they were drugging down this entire population. So they were easier to control, but nobody was getting any better.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: So at that time I was working for the Department of Vocational Rehabilitation. We were searching for the highest level patients out there to put through vocational training like auto mechanics or hair cutting or you know the beauty thing, beauty shop stuff.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know, low, kind of low level jobs just to get them a career. and But what I was finding out is that they would eventually stop taking their drugs. And then I'd be called down to the cosmetology shop and going, hey, Susie's going nuts. She's back here screaming and the voices are taking her over and she's threatening people and she's she's acting berserk.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, come and get her. And that happened time after time. And what was unusual is it would usually happen as they were approaching, finishing their courses.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: like they were about to graduate. And then all of a sudden they would sabotage themselves. So here's this pattern of them sabotaging themselves when they're about to graduate from their vocational school. I'm going, why are they doing that?
Jerry Marzinsky: And why is that happening?
Jerry Marzinsky: you know So ah started wondering, you know why aren't they taking these drugs? It was the only thing we had back then that would keep them at least halfway sane. at least they could function if they had those drugs in there. They weren't three sheets to the wind babbling and walking in circles and and just being, i mean, they could semi-function, you know, or they could they they could function in a low-level job, but they kept taking those pills, but they didn't take them.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I'm like, what is going on here? So I came up with this test. You know, it's like,
Jerry Marzinsky: I'm going, I'm thinking what's worse, being psychotic or these side effects? Now, these side effects are bad, but being psychotic is much worse. You know, you hear these voices screaming at you.
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: You're no good. You're rotten. You start seeing monsters coming out of the wall. You have voices talking to you out of nowhere. You're out of control of your mind. You can't keep it out of under control. you You're agitated. You're paranoid.
Jerry Marzinsky: ah The voices are threatening you. You're getting in fights with other people. I mean, it's it's just it's just horrible. I mean,
Jerry Marzinsky: it's like hell on earth. you know On my website, again, at jerrymarzinski.com, I got an interview with a a gal named Judy Gregerson.
Jerry Marzinsky: She was schizophrenic at one time, and she she worked her way through it, and she gives a wonderful account of actually what it's like to be schizophrenic.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know that The nuts and bolts of it. and what you think, what you feel, how to control you are, how paranoid you are, how you you know how what total misery it is.
Jerry Marzinsky: mean, go to the video section and just push on videos and it one will come up.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I went to the DSM and I listed all the negative
Jerry Marzinsky: characteristics of paranoid schizophrenia. It's like a page and a half. you know You know, seeing monsters, hallucinating,
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: paranoia, of anxiety, lack of, so I mean, just this whole two pages worth almost. And then I'd ask, every time one of my, one of the people I had on my caseload would quit their medications and get in trouble, once they were put back on and stabilized again, I'd bring them in and I'd ask them, well, why did you stop your meds?
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, do do you want to stay crazy? They go, no, no, I don't want to stay crazy. said, well, then why'd you do that? And he went, Well, the side effects. The side effects are horrible. So I was expecting that because they are.
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I said, okay, I'm going to give you a blank sheet of paper. You write down all the side effects you've experienced with the drug you were on. Okay? So they did that, and here was like, you know, five or ten side effects that they were experienced.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then I'd give them the sheet of paper with the, you know, the description of all this negative psychiatric symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. And I said, okay, put a check mark by every one of these that you've experienced when you were off your meds.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then I'd hand them back both papers and I'd say, which one's worse?
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: In every single case, they said that the symptoms of schizophrenia were much worse than the side effects of the medication.
Jerry Marzinsky: So Then I'd ask them, well, then why did you stop taking your medications? What do you think their answer was?
Jerry Marzinsky: It was, I don't know. Hundreds of them, over three years, I don't know.
Beyond Terrain: It just doesn't make sense.
Jerry Marzinsky: They had no idea.
Jerry Marzinsky: Even knowing that being crazy was worse than the side effects of the drugs.
Jerry Marzinsky: In my seventh year at that at that state hospital, I had, One girl in the cosmetology shop, she was doing good. She making good grades. you know It looked like she was going to make a good cosmetologist.
Jerry Marzinsky: She had to stay on her meds. if If they went off them the third time, we would usually discharge them because back then all we had was those meds. And if they went off them three times, we would go, well, we can't trust them to stay on the meds when they're on when we were to lose them on the streets.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So we would discontinue their training and then try with somebody else who
Beyond Terrain: chair
Jerry Marzinsky: we were hoping to have better luck with. So this girl, she was about to graduate, she was doing good, she made good grades. um She went off her meds and she was going crazy in the in the cosmetology class.
Jerry Marzinsky: She was screaming and hollering and threatening people. and I got a call from the cosmetology instructor saying, come come and get her out of here, she's disrupting my class, I can't deal with her.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Went got her out of there, brought her back to her room, turned her over to psychiatry. they They medicated her again. And when she was back to normal, I informed her that the treatment team was going to discharge her because that's what the third time she went off her meds.
Jerry Marzinsky: So apparently she called her mom and her mom called me and said, please don't discharge her.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: I can't deal with her. You know I've had her here before hearing those voices. I can't deal with her. Please don't discharge her. so she said, I'll come up there and we'll find out why she went off her meds.
Jerry Marzinsky: All right.
Beyond Terrain: yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So what I did was I said, okay, come up next Friday. I'll meet with you. We'll bring her in and we'll both try to find out why she went off from there. So you know prior to that, one thing I noticed um was that psychiatrists at this hospital were getting assaulted by schizophrenics at a rate higher than any of the other staff there.
Jerry Marzinsky: They were being assaulted by schizophrenics higher than dentists Psychiatric nurses, regular nurses, counselors, psychologists. um
Beyond Terrain: Interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: The only people that were being so assaulted an even near the rate were attendant staff who were spending 24 hours a day with these schizophrenic patients, these p psychotic patients with them.
Beyond Terrain: Let's see. Yeah. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So prior to that, I'm wondering like, what are these psychiatrists saying to these patients that's pissing them ah off enough in 20 minutes because they were only seeing them for 15, 20 minutes a month.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: And it was like, they were just checking on their meds. Well, how's your meds doing? Are you still hearing the voices? By then, most of the patients knew enough to tell them, no, I'm not hearing the voices. They're down because they know if they admitted to it, they would drug them more, you know?
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they lied to them, know?
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So they go, oh yeah, yeah that they're under control. I'm okay. Everything's fine. And then they get out of there and go, yeah, you know? So, ah That's all they would do, they'd they'd spend 20 minutes on how's your medicines and if the medicines weren't working they'd change them or they'd up them or they'd down them but it was always changing the medications.
Beyond Terrain: yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: They wouldn't spend any time talking to these people at all.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, what's going on with you, how do you feel, nothing like that. It was all medications.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: um So why why are they being assaulted at a rate higher than anybody else when they're only spending 20 minutes a month with these people?
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: Made no sense to me For seven years until I got this girl in my office, it made no sense to me.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So we met one Friday afternoon. She came in. The mother came in. We're all three sitting together. I closed the door and the mother and I are asking her, why did you go off your meds? You knew that you would be discharged from your program if you did that a third time.
Jerry Marzinsky: You knew that.
Beyond Terrain: Yes.
Jerry Marzinsky: You were told that. Why did you go off your meds? And her mother's begging her and I'm asking and her. We're both. And she she finally goes. She didn't want to say she finally goes, I'll ill ah You won't believe me if I told you. know You won't believe me.
Jerry Marzinsky: I said, try me. I've heard a ah lot of weird stuff since I've been working at this place. I don't think anything you say is going to you know tip me over. Go ahead and tell us. what Why did you do that? did you go off your meds?
Jerry Marzinsky: She said, the voices were telling me that the psychiatrist was poisoning me. And they were pointing to all the side effects of these rotten medicines to prove that I was being poisoned.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: and they convinced me that he was poisoning me, that's when I went off. And went, click, bang, man. I'm like, that's why psychiatrists are being assaulted.
Jerry Marzinsky: The voices are telling these patients that the psychiatrist is poisoning them. And in a effect, in reality, they are. These drugs are toxic. all these All these symptoms, dizziness, drowsiness, anxiety, sleep problems, breast swelling, weight gain, dry mouth, stuffy nose, can constipation,
Jerry Marzinsky: Those are all side effects. These are toxic effects of those medications.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah, yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Those medications are toxic. They're poisonous.
Beyond Terrain: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they make you feel like crap, and they fog up your brain so you can't think, you know. They're awful. But at least the person can kind of function on them.
Beyond Terrain: Sure,
Jerry Marzinsky: So that made sense, you know, at that point. You know, okay, that's what's going on. You But psychiatrists don't believe in voices.
Beyond Terrain: So... Hallucinations.
Jerry Marzinsky: they They don't believe that there's anything to them. Oh, they're just hallucinations, you know.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They never looked into them. They never asked questions to the patients.
Beyond Terrain: Interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, well, what are you hearing? And what are they saying? and And how are you reacting to it? What are you doing about it? Now, yeah, they're just hallucinations. Just just ignore them. You know, nuts.
Beyond Terrain: I'm kind of curious, you know, what, cause we sort of the philosophy that we take here is that there's a reason, like when we see symptoms in the physical realm,
Beyond Terrain: like a cough, there's a reason you have a cough, like maybe it's to clear your lungs of something or mucus to, you know, neutralize toxicity. and And we view symptoms as sort of being the healing process.
Beyond Terrain: I'm kind of curious, like with the symptoms kind of being the voices, right? Like the symptoms of psychosis.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, no, that's not what psychiatry treats. Psychiatry treats the anxiety, the dizziness,
Jerry Marzinsky: yeah the symptoms of the voices. you know
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: they don't They don't look at the voices as entities.
Beyond Terrain: The voices, like the root cause, right?
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah, so like it's like the root cause, and it's the major it's the major symptom, and yet they ignore it.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's like, oh, yeah, it's a hallucination.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: we don't We don't understand what it is. It's it just some crazy hallucination. And they don't even try to find out. They're not even asking questions.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: it's it's and It's unbelievable. It's just unbelievable. its Like I said, it's like the Egyptian priest of old.
Beyond Terrain: So...
Jerry Marzinsky: We hereby, it looks like a hallucination.
Beyond Terrain: and
Jerry Marzinsky: So it's a hallucination. that's told That's what we're treated.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: No, they're not even interested. They don't believe in spirits. They don't believe in demons. They don't believe in anything like that. It's outside of their realm. So they're never going to get to a cure for schizophrenia.
Jerry Marzinsky: because it's the voices that cause the schizophrenia. You get rid of those voices by any means, exorcism, um you know, mace energy method, and any other method, you know, Christianity, prayer.
Jerry Marzinsky: Once they're gone, all symptoms of schizophrenia disappear with them.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They don't see that.
Beyond Terrain: hang
Jerry Marzinsky: And yet, and they're making things worse. They're they're telling the patient, ah well, What you have is an incurable illness, an incurable mental illness. You're going to have to take these drugs for the rest of your life.
Jerry Marzinsky: There is no hope. you um It's ah it's a there there is no cure. it's it's ah It's a life sentence.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that they're fostering hopelessness with these patients, which makes it even worse.
Beyond Terrain: Supposedly.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. i mean, a hundred percent.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, so they're already hopeless.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: they're already feeling bad. And then the psychiatrist comes up Well, yeah, it's hopeless. You can't do anything about it. there All there is is you can take these nasty psychiatric drugs with all these rotten symptoms. That's all you can do for the rest of your life.
Jerry Marzinsky: There's no other hope. know
Beyond Terrain: No.
Jerry Marzinsky: but so So it's like they're just dumping crap on top of crap on these poor people.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. guess my question is like, what, what is the purpose of the voice? It's like, what is the purpose? What is the reason that there, because if we look like at what's causing the voices, like what's brought on the voices, like a traumatic event, ah you know, maybe a curse or an evil spirit or something like that, like what is the purpose of the voices in all of this?
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, I tell you, it will certainly wake you up to the spiritual world.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, you ask a lot of schizophrenics, what do you think the voices are? And they'll tell you they're demons.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: I'd say about maybe 60% of them, you know, when you ask them, well, what do you think they are? You know, a lot of them will say, well, I don't know.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, um, some of them will say, hallucinations They buy what psychiatry tells them. But I'd say probably 60% of them realize that they're demons and they act like demons.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, you look at the Bible and yeah that's another thing. you You look at, I mean, this is a Christian society. You look at the Bible, there's 23 times where Jesus cast these things out of crazy people. 23 times.
Jerry Marzinsky: You think that has any impact on psychiatry? Or the educational system? No, not at all. Oh, demons don't exist. that's That's what the devil wants you to believe.
Jerry Marzinsky: That's what these things want you to believe because if you believe they're hallucinations, that they're not real, then they have an open field to do whatever they want.
Beyond Terrain: Exactly.
Jerry Marzinsky: They can cause as much damage as they want.
Beyond Terrain: actually Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And if you don't you don't believe the real cause, there're they're immune.
Beyond Terrain: yeah You know, the, the,
Jerry Marzinsky: But
Beyond Terrain: The cultural aspect of it, like I remember hearing a story of someone in a tribal setting where they were studying, you know, some primitive individuals and a woman was presenting with signs of schizophrenia, you know, and it was, then it was the anti-culture, like the symptoms that she was presenting was that she killed a goat and women are not allowed to kill goats in that primitive, i think it was in Africa, in their culture. Women cannot kill goats. So she went out and she killed the goat and they were like, that's,
Beyond Terrain: you're going against sort of the belief of the tribe against the, the spiritual culture of the tribe. It's so interesting that it goes to sort of this anti-Christ, this anti-religious, anti-cultural or spirituality place, you know?
Beyond Terrain: So it's so clear. It seems like it's like it's demonic entities. It just, it just seems to add up.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, if if they would look at it, if they would look at it, they'd see it. You know, um
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: I remember seeing this. ah I first saw it when, again, when I was working at the state hospital, oh when the chaplain would hold um prayer services and and ice cream and and cake socials.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know all the other patients on the ward would go down and, you know, dance and and listen to the music preacher and have ice cream and cake, none of the schizophrenics would go down there.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, so I'd be walking the hall and I'd see here's all the schizophrenics are in their rooms. You know, the first time I'm like, well, that's odd. I didn't make anything of it. It's like, that's just odd. What's happening here?
Jerry Marzinsky: And then it happened a couple of times after that, the next ice cream social. So I started asking them, what's going on? Why are you staying on this dingy ward when you could be down eating cake and ice cream, listening to music and dancing?
Jerry Marzinsky: Why? they well, I don't like preachers. I don't, I don't want, I don't believe in God and, and I don't want to hear any of this Bible talk kind of crap, you know, all of
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then you look at what they're reading on their book stand and it was all these murder mysteries and, and war stories and, and all negative stuff, you know, so I'm like, well, look at that, you know?
Beyond Terrain: Yeah, referring that trauma narrative, right?
Jerry Marzinsky: Yeah. It's all, all negative, negative stuff.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Um, And then I had one guy, one time he came in and, uh, you know, he, he realized something was wrong and he would pray and, uh, he would try to read the Bible. And I would ask him, I said, what, what happens when you try to read the Bible?
Jerry Marzinsky: He said, the voices get louder. They won't let me read the Bible. And I said, that's odd. So I started asking a lot of the others. Have you ever tried to read the Bible with the voices? The response was the same.
Jerry Marzinsky: The voices don't like it.
Beyond Terrain: You
Jerry Marzinsky: They get louder. They say it's a bunch of crap. Um, And they they even had a kind of like a retinue that they ran by. It was like, you know, you get to the point when you first start reading the Bible, you got this this guy beget this guy beget this guy beget this guy goes on for like 20 pages of who begot who.
Jerry Marzinsky: Boring is all get out. And the voices would insist if they can need to read the Bible, they they need to read it cover to cover. So they would start reading it cover to cover. And then they'd be like 10 pages into this guy beget this guy beget this guy.
Jerry Marzinsky: voices would show up and say, what are you reading that crap for? Look at this. This is garbage. Why are you reading this?
Beyond Terrain: Interesting. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: Look how stupid this is. And then they turn them away from reading the Bible. I had one guy, remember he came in and he goes, I remember he he said he he read the 23rd Psalm while the voices were attacking him.
Jerry Marzinsky: He said that it was like throwing the voices, like throwing worms on a hot frying pan. said that's how the voices reacted to, you know, to prayer.
Jerry Marzinsky: So then I started asking all of them, said, you know, have you ever gone to church with the voices? And a lot of them had. And it broke down into three categories.
Jerry Marzinsky: If the voices were mild, if they weren't very strong, when they got into the church, the voices would disappear. They wouldn't talk in the church. If they were moderate strength, they would get louder and they would start yelling and distracting the patient from what the preacher was trying to say.
Jerry Marzinsky: and where the voices were really strong, they would drive the person out of the church. They would get up and they would virtually run out of there.
Beyond Terrain: Right now. Good.
Jerry Marzinsky: So after questioning scores of of schizophrenics, that was the pattern that showed up. The voices are anti-religious. Why would a hallucination be anti-religious?
Jerry Marzinsky: Your psychiatry going, this is a hallucination. What other hallucination is anti-religious?
Jerry Marzinsky: Go ahead, find one. you know Not there.
Beyond Terrain: and Usually people take mushrooms, they find God and they find, ah you know, holy figures or spiritual figures.
Jerry Marzinsky: What kind of
Beyond Terrain: You know, they they feel like they've had this experience, this divine experience.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, that you know they know to you that okay there's a there's a negative spirit. So this is like a dualistic universe. There's hot, there's cold, there's black, there's white, there's light, there's dark, there's, you know, everything it's everything is kind of opposite.
Jerry Marzinsky: So when you're on one end of the spectrum, it's like, okay, there must be another end, you know.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Really?
Jerry Marzinsky: so spirits do exist.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: Angels do exist. And, and you know, i'd I'd even have some say, you know, their guardian angel would come and chase away these spirits, you know.
Beyond Terrain: really
Jerry Marzinsky: I had,
Jerry Marzinsky: there was an interesting story.
Jerry Marzinsky: This one fellow, he was ah like a career criminal. He was using a lot of, he had a ah rap sheet that was like two pages long, you know, trouble with with the police, you know locked up over and over and over again.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he was hearing in voices. And what I did when I got to the prison, now I couldn't do this at the hospital. ah because I had to watch out for the psychiatrists.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know they
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: After being threatened by two of them for asking questions about the voices, I had to really put it in the low gear. But when I got to work in the prison, in the psychology department there, what I did is I formed up groups of schizophrenics who were hearing in voices, prisoners, who were willing to tell me in real time what the voices were telling them.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I was right there. It was like I had a window write it right into their thought processes. you know Not all of them would do that, but I always had about 10 or 12 of them that I was working with who agreed to do that because a lot of times they were as curious about what the voices were as I was.
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: They didn't know what they were either. you know They're like, what are these things? And they would ask them. I mean, I don't know. thought There was a lot ah number of prisoners who would ask the voices, who are you?
Jerry Marzinsky: and What are you? The voices respond back, we are you.
Jerry Marzinsky: So here they are trying to get the patient to believe that the voices they're hearing in their heads are them. They don't belong to some other entity. They belong to them.
Jerry Marzinsky: But the the deal was that those voices did not match the personality of the patient that was there before they came. So their intention was very different than the intention of the patient for himself.
Jerry Marzinsky: It was always negative, it was always dangerous, it was always paralyzing, it was always paranoia, was you know it was anti-survival stuff. That's not normal for the human being.
Jerry Marzinsky: The human being reacts to negative stimuli by avoiding it They can't avoid these things because they had moved in.
Jerry Marzinsky: right So when they when they really take control, when they're not afraid of being discovered anymore, then the patient starts hearing them outside of their head, you know like somebody talking to them from two or three feet away.
Jerry Marzinsky: Now that's really spooky. That's when they're not afraid of being you know of ah being discovered or or are being threatened anymore. That really creates paranoia.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that this this one guy, he was he was very interesting, this this rap sheet guy with the long pages worth of crimes.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: He was one of the ones I had in in the group.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he was telling me stories of the voices. And one time he told me, that you know he was taking he was taking out what cocaine, he was using a lot of cocaine.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he was hearing the voices and he said the voices came to him one day and they said, hey, we know where there's a Sessamelia pot field up in Oregon. Now he was in San Diego. And they said, grab yourself a machete and and two
Jerry Marzinsky: canvas sacks and take all your money and we'll show you where where the those fields are.
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: So he trusted them enough to do that. He had like, I don't know, $250 or something like that. and Gas was cheap back then. So turn by turn, he listened to the voices tell him where to go. And he got up to Oregon, and here they are telling him where to go in Oregon.
Jerry Marzinsky: Finally, he's driving down this dirt road toward the mountains, And the dirt road runs out. And he goes, okay, no more road. What do I do now? They tell him, off to your left is a hiking trail, you know, beyond those trees right there.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, take your sacks, take your machete, you know, go up that hiking trail and you will find the field. So he he takes his stuff and he he starts up that hiking trail.
Jerry Marzinsky: And a few hours later, comes upon this giant sesamelia pot field.
Beyond Terrain: right.
Jerry Marzinsky: know, sprawling over acres. And they go, here you go. And
Jerry Marzinsky: they tell him, well, cut him down. you know um and So he he cuts down, fills the two sacks with this powerful marijuana, then starts heading back down to his car. And and he goes, well, now what?
Jerry Marzinsky: And the voices go, we know where you can sell it. There's a and national park not far from here. You can sell it there. There'll be a lot of people there who will buy it.
Jerry Marzinsky: So he goes to that national park the next day and he starts selling it. And he's making hundreds of dollars. And he's had those big sacks. So they last him for a couple of weeks. He got a good hotel.
Jerry Marzinsky: He bought all the prostitutes he could handle. He bought all the alcohol he could handle. He bought all the cocaine he could handle. And then the voices said, we want to go fishing. And I'm like, what?
Jerry Marzinsky: ah Get out of here. You're pulling my leg. You know, you're making that up. They go, no, no, no. they want They were fishermen. They wanted to go fishing. said, are you kidding me?
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: goes, no, I'm not kidding you. Honest to God, they want to go fishing. So I said, well, what'd you do? said, I went and bought a fishing rod and some bait. And me and the voices went out to the Columbia River and we were fishing.
Jerry Marzinsky: He said, they would tell me where to show, where to throw the hook, you when to move, you know, um and and what what bait to use. And he said, I was the only one catching fish that day.
Jerry Marzinsky: And that's that's what he did for like two weeks. He did the drugs, the prostitutes, the alcohol, and fished. And then he the second second time he went up there when he ran out of the but pot, he told the voices, oh, I got to go get some more marijuana. I'm out.
Jerry Marzinsky: He said, no, don't go up there. They're waiting for you. They know you've been taking it.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: You go up there, they're going to kill you. Take what money you have. go back down to San Diego.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And he did.
Jerry Marzinsky: What was interesting with him was that oh in between the voices coming, he would say his mother would come and speak to him. Now, that was another one.
Jerry Marzinsky: and I'm like, your mother is coming? Now, she was deceased. His mother was dead.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And these things can play like anything. They be, They could fake like they were his mother and they can go into his head and they can pull up all the information about his mother and act like his mother and say the things his mother did.
Beyond Terrain: Sure. just...
Beyond Terrain: just
Jerry Marzinsky: yeah So I knew that. So I was very suspicious when he told me, you know, my mother comes and talks to me and I asked her, I asked him, what does she say?
Jerry Marzinsky: And he says, well, she tells me to stay away from the gangsters and, and not to be a selling, uh, drugs and not to be used in drugs and to wash my clothes and and to keep my underwear clean and brush my teeth and that kind of stuff.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know So every time i met with him, I would ask, you know, what's your mother telling you? Looking for anything suspicious, it was nothing negative.
Jerry Marzinsky: and
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So it was like, I guess this might be his mother. know Because it it was always motherly-like stuff.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And so I was working with him and we were doing things to upset the patterns that the voices were running. So I was wondering, okay, what happens if you start upsetting these patterns?
Jerry Marzinsky: what What if you start messing with them? You start blocking them, giving them activities that kind of interfere with these patterns. And they were getting better. you know The voices were getting weaker.
Beyond Terrain: Interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: and And he was getting better.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then finally, the voices left. They were gone. And all he could hear was his mother. And so I brought him in after the voices were gone. They were gone for like three weeks. They were gone almost a month.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they didn't like those patterns be ignored. And he said he could still hear his mother, you know. And he comes in one day and he goes, my mother wants to talk to you.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'm like, she wants to talk to me? And said, well, okay, which what does she have to say? And he says, my mother thanks you for everything you've done to help me.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, okay, you're welcome. I asked her, I said, what are you doing over there? And she says, I'm checking people in. And then I went to ask her another question. And she says, I'm not supposed to be talking to you.
Jerry Marzinsky: Everything you need to know is in the Bible. And then she disappeared. And a week later, he didn't even hear her anymore. She was gone.
Jerry Marzinsky: Interesting, but true story.
Beyond Terrain: And did the voices ever come back?
Jerry Marzinsky: I got story on top of story like that. But anyhow, so i'm I'm seeing that interfering with these patterns was pissing off the voices and was interfering with their control over these people.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: right
Beyond Terrain: Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: So i had like all, all 11 or 12 of them. I would give them tasks after each session. Say, okay, I want you to try doing this to interfere with the voices. I'll bring you back next week and tell me how the voices are reacting.
Jerry Marzinsky: And one by one, they came back and they said, the voices are getting pissed off with you. You know, they don't like this. They don't want us coming here. And all of them were saying, when we get up to come in the morning to to come with our office visit, they're telling us not to go, that you're crazy, you're a lunatic, don't listen to you.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: and they were doing all the the best to convince them not to show up.
Beyond Terrain: wow
Jerry Marzinsky: But they came anyway. And this started getting more and more intense. ah and And virtually all of them were coming in and saying, the voices don't like this. They don't like these assignments. They don't like what you're doing. They're getting pissed off.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then one day when one of them is about to leave the office, he turns around in my doorway and he looks at me and he goes, you know what you're doing is dangerous, don't you? And I just looked at him like, I didn't think it was dangerous. im I'm thinking, well, they're in your head. They're not in my head. They're not getting me. They're getting you.
Jerry Marzinsky: But I just looked at him. I was speechless. um You know, I'm like, what does that mean? And he just turned around and left. And I'm like sitting there thinking like, well, okay.
Jerry Marzinsky: I just kind of filed it back in the possible useful useful information file back there. And i didn't forget it But it didn't stop me at all. um
Beyond Terrain: and
Jerry Marzinsky: So this guy comes back like a couple of weeks later. I call him in for appointment. No, no, let me see. What do you do next? Who is that?
Jerry Marzinsky: Dangerous. Oh, and then then he comes in a few weeks later. i don't know how he got into my office. I mean, I didn't send him a pass. He got into the psych department, the medical department somehow, knocks on my door.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. I
Jerry Marzinsky: open the door and he's standing there and he goes, the voices want to talk to you.
Beyond Terrain: ah
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'm like, doo do doo do, do, do, doo do. you This is like outer limits time. They want to talk to me personally? He goes, yeah, they want to talk to you personally. In 20 years, that had never happened.
Jerry Marzinsky: Never happened before.
Beyond Terrain: no
Jerry Marzinsky: They never spoke to me personally. It was always, I would ask the patient what they were saying. He would tell me, i would tell him to tell them this, you know, so, patient was always the intermediary.
Jerry Marzinsky: He goes, no, no, they want to talk to you personally. So I bring him in and id say, okay, sit down. And i'm I'm a little bit freaked out. Close the door and
Jerry Marzinsky: I ask him, more okay, what do they have to say? And these words came out of his mouth.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: You have no right to interfere with our way of life.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'm like stunned. Our way of life. It wasn't the patient talking, way of life. And I'm like, boom. It was then that I finally realized that these things, what these things were, that they were independent.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, up to that time, I was making excuses. I was in denial. I didn't want to believe that they were demons. I didn't believe, i didn't want to believe that. I was thinking, well, this is some psychological malfunction in their subconscious and I'm going to investigate it and see where this goes.
Jerry Marzinsky: That's where it first showed up. You have no right to interfere with our way of life.
Beyond Terrain: Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, but you're destroying these people.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it didn't go on. I don't remember what happened after that. I was like shocked. It was like, I closed my office and I realized that these are entities.
Beyond Terrain: course.
Jerry Marzinsky: These aren't some subconscious something or other. This isn't, these are conscious entities.
Beyond Terrain: Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I was weirded out. ah shut my office down the rest of the day and I'm just staring out the window saying, thinking, where is this going? You what's going on here? And I was feeling like, you am I going nuts too?
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, what, you know, it's like weirded me out.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that wasn't, that wasn't the least of it.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: Um, so I didn't stop.
Beyond Terrain: I passed.
Jerry Marzinsky: and didn't stop working with these guys. Um, And I ran into a book called The Voice of Knowledge by Miguel Ruiz. it was ah This guy was a South American shaman. And he was talking about these things also being energetic parasites.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So what I did is I brought that book into the prison and brought one one of the psychotic guys in there with me. And I said, I got this book here. I want to read this paragraph to you.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I think it was probably the same guy who gave me that warning in the first place. I want to read this to you. and I want you to tell me what what you think about it, because I was always asking these guys questions.
Beyond Terrain: what you think about it. I was always asking these guys questions.
Jerry Marzinsky: I was asking them hundreds of questions.
Beyond Terrain: I was asking them hundreds questions.
Jerry Marzinsky: How do they respond to this?
Beyond Terrain: How do they respond?
Jerry Marzinsky: How do they do that? What did what effect did this have on them? What are they telling you? you everything Everything I could dream of, I was asking, and they were answering the questions. you know
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: It wasn't like at the state hospital, and I didn't have to worry about it at the person, because if one of these guys went to the warden or the captain and said, hey, the psych is asking me questions about the voices I don't like, they would go,
Jerry Marzinsky: Get out of here. Go play into traffic. but That wouldn't even hit the, they wouldn't even break the, you know, it wouldn't go above the threshold level.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: It just, it would be like, get out of here, you know?
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: So so i had i had years that I could do this, you know, and finding out more and more about these voices more and more about these patterns.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And they were telling me everything.
Beyond Terrain: Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: So and went to read this thing and I got to the part where it was speaking about these entities being psychic vampires.
Jerry Marzinsky: As soon as I got to that part, I heard this loud crackling behind my head. And I'm looking at the patient and he's just staring at me with these these ghost eyes. You know, he's just looking at me.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then this crackling starts moving to my right along the wall. it sounded exactly like an arc welder, you know, electric arc welder. It's like crack, crack, crack, crack. crack crackk And I'm like, you know, thinking, freaked out.
Jerry Marzinsky: I'm like, what is going on here? And then i look at him and I ask him, I said, do you hear that? And he doesn't answer me. He's just staring at me. He's just this this eerie stare, you know, just like like a zombie.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I go, um he's going to attack.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I push my chair against the wall. So if he comes, at least I can kick him back. So I'm trying to keep an eye on him. And looking at where the sound is originating from too, it's crackling up the right hand wall of my office at a 45 degree angle up to toward the ceiling.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it's just like crack, crack, crack, crack. I'm looking at him, keeping an eye on him and trying to see what this thing was. I didn't see anything. I didn't smell anything. There was no light. there was It was just that crackling sound and it was moving up the wall.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it it was it wasn't moving really fast. It was just kind of, leisurely moving up toward the ceiling. And I'm splitting my attention between him and the noise. And then it starts to the left when it hit the back of the room across the ceiling and right over his head.
Jerry Marzinsky: So now I could watch him and and kind of pay attention to the area where that noise was coming from at the same time.
Beyond Terrain: to the norm.
Jerry Marzinsky: So he's just staring at me with this eerie stare. And I was kind of trying to keep an eye on him thinking, what's he going to do next? And then it starts coming down the left-hand wall, which is closer to where I am.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'm looking at it, and then it jumps into this Rubbermaid trash can right next to my left leg, and it's crackling in the garbage can. And I look down in there, there's nothing there. There's nothing there.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's empty. There's no paper. There's no nothing. The inmate Porter had cleaned it the night before. All there was was a plastic bag, and here's this crackling noise coming from it. and And I'm like freaked out of my skull right then. He's staring at me.
Jerry Marzinsky: Here's his crackling. And then just like that, it disappeared. It went. And he slowly gets up and he goes, I gotta leave.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he gets up and he kind of shuffles down the hall. And I'm thinking, get the hell out of here. Go, go, get out of here. So he left and I get up and I'm examining the walls to see if there's any burnt places anywhere.
Jerry Marzinsky: I'm going, what the dickens just happened? And there's no burnt, there's no marks, there's no evidence that anything ever happened.
Beyond Terrain: Interesting. Hmm.
Jerry Marzinsky: no And am i I'm reeling like, you know, outer limits. And then I go out into the hall and I check the doctor's office across the hall. It's locked.
Jerry Marzinsky: Check the nurse's office. She's not in It's locked. There's nothing in the hall back of the building that could have caused that noise. And I'm just freaked out. I'm stunned. You know, I'm like,
Jerry Marzinsky: where's this going? You know, had no idea. Where's this going? Where's this taking me? What's going on here? I didn't have any cognitive map of what was going on. I had no idea. I didn't know what was happening.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that didn't stop me. I mean, I so didn't see anybody that day. I just closed my office and sat there staring out the window. I was in shock. So I might've taken a day off or something like that, but then
Beyond Terrain: yeah Well deserved.
Jerry Marzinsky: Went back and just started at it again.
Beyond Terrain: Yes.
Jerry Marzinsky: And, you know, had the same guy came back. um Well, I didn't see him for probably two to three months. I didn't want to see him. I didn't call him back.
Beyond Terrain: Fair.
Jerry Marzinsky: He was one of the group that was giving me information. I didn't want to see him. I didn't call him back. you know But I was still working with all the others. And then finally, my curiosity got the best of me.
Beyond Terrain: yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I wrote him out a pass to show up in psych the but next morning. So he shows up for the appointment on time and he comes in and he's looking good.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, I thought he would be a wreck. you know Considering what I experienced the last time I saw him, I thought the voices would have taken him over and he would he would just look like a wreck.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: No, he looked good. You know, he had he had energy. he He looked good. And I commented to him, I said, you you look good. You know, and I was surprised.
Jerry Marzinsky: He goes, well, yeah, I've been doing what you taught me and I haven't got rid of the voices, but they haven't advanced any either. They haven't they haven't gone any further.
Jerry Marzinsky: So it's like a Mexican standoff.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, have a seat. And I asked him, we did some small talk. And then I said, do you remember the last time you were in here? and do Do you hear that crackling noise that went around the office?
Jerry Marzinsky: And he said, Yeah, I heard it. Thank God somebody else heard it. And he said, but I was surprised you were. So he was surprised I heard it. And I asked him, I said, what in the blazes was that?
Jerry Marzinsky: And he said, that was them. I said, them who, the voices? He said, yeah, that that was the voices. And I said, what the dickens were they doing? And he said, well, they were trying to scare you off.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, well, they did one hell of a job.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that was after not seeing him for three months. So then, ah what did I ask him then?
Beyond Terrain: hello
Jerry Marzinsky: Oh yeah, I remembered how weird he looked when he got up to get out. He looked he looked like a zombie. I mean, he he didn't look normal, he just looked like, and and he shuffled out.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: He didn't walk out with a regular gait, he kind of shuffled out.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, what were the voices telling you when you left my office? You looked really strange to me. He said, They were telling me to go get a shank and stick it in your gut. And I'm thinking, oh, he wouldn't have done that. I've worked with him for six months. and I know him better than most other inmates. He wouldn't have done that.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I asked him, well, why didn't you do it? And he said, ah couldn't find one and nobody would give me one. And I'm like, ooh.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: So this was weird. I didn't have any it was It was like I had one foot in both worlds. And I was wondering whether I was going psychotic.
Beyond Terrain: Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: I mean, because this is, this is i didn't tell there's nobody I could talk to about this.
Beyond Terrain: You got eyes?
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, there was nobody I could talk, except the schizophrenics themselves.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: I could talk to them about it.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: You know, they were hearing voices. They were seeing things. They were hearing noises, you know.
Beyond Terrain: and
Jerry Marzinsky: And here I am with them, you know. Hey, yeah, did you this ever happened to you oh yeah. It's like I was in a group with them. You was at one foot in both worlds, you know, and, and like going, well, I don't have any cognitive map of where is this going?
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: You I, I, it was like, you know, I, I walked through this door and I'm looking around and I'm seeing all this weirdness I don't know where it's going.
Beyond Terrain: Ew.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'm, I'm like, I'm heading in that direction. And it's like, what's going on? know So,
Beyond Terrain: Hmm. Yeah. Amazing.
Jerry Marzinsky: so you know, well, yeah.
Beyond Terrain: It shapes your experience, or your understanding.
Jerry Marzinsky: And see, what
Jerry Marzinsky: what kind of turned me on, what got me suspecting that the voices were not hallucinations was a fellow named Wilson Van Dusen, who was a clinical psychologist who was working up at a state hospital in California.
Jerry Marzinsky: Now, he was a staunch Swedenborgian. Immanuel Swedenborg was a Christian mystic who lived some 300 years ago.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he was given access to heaven and hell by Jesus.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: He was one of the top scientists of his day. He was the chief mining engineer for the queen of Sweden. He was making her a fortune with the machines and the mining techniques he was developing.
Jerry Marzinsky: Um, and he could, he could see spirits and he could talk to them. And, uh, He was given access to heaven and hell. And he he he was told by Jesus to go there, interview the angels and the demons, and write about them so the people on the planet are aware of what's going on.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he did, and he wrote a book called Heaven and Hell.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: and that that Van Dusen was a Swedenborgian, so he had read those books. He was working with schizophrenics also. He knew that the voices weren't hallucinations, but he would not not call them hallucinations.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: He would refer to them as hallucinations, but he would have conversations with them.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So what he was trying to do was make friends with them to see if he could learn more about what they were and how they behaved.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: Of course, they you know they would only go so far with them. They he was He wasn't trying to get rid of them. i ah I always knew they were evil. They were rotten, that they needed to be gotten rid of. And that put a whole lot more pressure on them. You really find out what they're made of when you when you're threatening them, you know when you're when you're backing them against the wall and you're learning all this stuff about them.
Jerry Marzinsky: He realized that the voices weren't hallucinations, but he kept calling them hallucinations in his book. But you could you know you could clearly read what he was saying and they and they weren't.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: but he didn't want to get in trouble with the psychiatric establishment, you know, or the APA because they would have taken his license.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: Before I came out with this, I dropped my license. I let it lapse because I knew what they would do to me. I knew they would go after me.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So I dropped it while I was in good stead. So now they can't touch me. Otherwise, like i'm sure I would have got fired. I would have went up before hearing boards. ah It would have been this guy's disruptive, da-da-da-da.
Jerry Marzinsky: based on what the psychiatrists at the state hospital did, I can imagine they wouldn't want something like me running around loose. you
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So, that happened.
Beyond Terrain: So maybe to to kind of wrap things up, I'm kind of curious about healing, you know, do the voices, like, I'm kind of curious about healing.
Jerry Marzinsky: About what?
Beyond Terrain: Like, do the voices stay forever? Can we heal them? How do we, how do we even approach healing?
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, the first thing you have to realize is that they're not you.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, that's the first thing. And this that's the opposite of what the psychiatric mafia is telling these people. Oh, it is you. Your brain is broken. Your case is hopeless. There's nothing you can do about it except take our toxic meds and come and pay us $250 a visit every month to give you a prescription so you can now go to the pharmacy and you can pay them another $2.
Jerry Marzinsky: $300 or something for for these medications or whatever they are. i mean, they're horrendously expensive. and And just, you're part of the cycle now. You know, it's it's like that, what is it? That gate that said, all who enter here, leave all hope behind.
Jerry Marzinsky: so
Beyond Terrain: yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: they're they're not only doing physiological damage, they're doing psychological damage. They're not giving these people any hope.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: They don't know what causes schizophrenia themselves. They make up all these lies about it. It's a biochemical imbalance. It's a genetic thing. The genetic thing has been disproved also. So here here they are kicking the the cause for schizophrenia up into the scientific realm where people can't examine it. The average doctor, the average psychologist, the average psychiatrist doesn't have access to the kind of labs that would verify or defy what these people are saying.
Beyond Terrain: yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: you know In order to prove these things weren't a chemical imbalance, you had to have access to massive amounts of equipment and the personnel that can prove that.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that's why it lasted like what? Since the 70s, 70s, and years.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: years. they got away with it for forty fricking years before some biochemical guys in the universities that were normal and weren't controlled by the deep state you know universities and and mafia started writing, hey, there's nothing there.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: you know There is no chemical imbalance.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: you know You have no evidence that there's a chemical imbalance. You don't even know what the chemical imbalance of the balance of the brain should be. What are you talking about? you know It was a complete fabrication. It was ah it was a complete lie.
Jerry Marzinsky: All right, so
Beyond Terrain: So number one, we got to, we got to accept that this is like the voices are not a part of us. You know, that's kind of like the baseline to heal.
Jerry Marzinsky: that's the baseline, yeah.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So then then you have to understand you know what they are, that they have access to your memory. they can pull so that they can They can fake like,
Beyond Terrain: So,
Jerry Marzinsky: can fake like they're anybody. you know I remember this one one gal I was dealing with who had been badly sexually abused by her her father.
Jerry Marzinsky: And her father finally died. And she was hearing voices. Her father finally died. She was at his funeral. And she was like, thank God he's gone. you know um now Now I don't have to deal with this anymore.
Jerry Marzinsky: So she's at his funeral.
Beyond Terrain: yeah wow
Jerry Marzinsky: And
Jerry Marzinsky: um then she starts hearing the voices again. And they sounded just like her father.
Beyond Terrain: wow
Jerry Marzinsky: And we could account, could recount to her what the father did to her.
Jerry Marzinsky: um And how well who else would know that other than the father? So they can pull this information out of these people's heads.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So here she is convinced that he's back and she's never going to get rid of him.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: So...
Beyond Terrain: i Earlier, like a type like exorcisms or, you know, releasing them like different techniques for eventually releasing them. Is that kind of a next part of the the process?
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, well there there are spirit releasers, there are exorcists who can get rid of them. But you have to get on a positive spiritual path. What I would do when I was working, I would find stuff they didn't like.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know Whatever they didn't like, whatever the voices complained about, whatever those prisoners told me the voices didn't like, I would tell them to do more of it.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Children, family, partners, stuff like that, right?
Jerry Marzinsky: So...
Jerry Marzinsky: no No, not that kind of stuff, but whatever exercises that I gave them, you know.
Beyond Terrain: Okay.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I'd say, um you know, tell them what they're telling you is a lie. You know, because 90% of what they say is a lie. You know, they don't care if it's the truth or not.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: All they want to do is upset the patient. They want to get them upset. They want to generate that negative emotional energy, which is what they feed off of, right?
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So that's why most of the stuff they tell these people, virtually all of it is negative.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: You're no good, you're rotten, you're stupid, you're ugly, everybody hates you. Your parents are faking like they like you. Your boyfriend's cheating on you, your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you. Whatever they can think of that will upset you, that you will believe, they will feed you, right?
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: And if you believe it, you're done, you're like a fish. you You're caught, know? But most of them realize, most most patients realize that they're liars. right And if if you again, if you go to my website at jerrymarzinski.com, go to articles, there's a program there that will help anybody who's hearing this voices.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's called the That's a Lie program. It was written by Sherry Sweeney, my co-author ah of this book here.
Beyond Terrain: Awesome.
Jerry Marzinsky: you want to know more about the voices, go ahead to my website and you can get this book, Amazing Journey Through the Psychotic Mind.
Beyond Terrain: wow
Jerry Marzinsky: It'll tell you how we came to the conclusion that these things were actually entities and not hallucinations.
Beyond Terrain: awesome
Jerry Marzinsky: So I ran into Sherry. She's the first one I could talk to about what these things were. Now I knew her 10 years and we were working on prison reform. I knew her 10 years before she admitted to me that, um,
Jerry Marzinsky: she would She heard voices when she was a kid. you know
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And then I didn't believe it, so I started hammering her with questions that only somebody who heard voices could answer. right And boom boom, boom, boom, right off the bat, bam, bam, bam, bam. She knew she knew the answers to all of them.
Jerry Marzinsky: So she was the first one I could really talk to you know about this stuff. And then when that crazy thing happened with the crackling in my office,
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: I went, I got to find Van Dusen. I didn't even know if he was still alive. But I tracked him down through the Swedenborg organization and he was still alive. And he was very suspicious of me. um But eventually, oh we were we started talking about all the all the stuff we'd done.
Beyond Terrain: you
Jerry Marzinsky: What he had done is he was giving the patient and the voices psychological tests. so So he had an MMPI, he had a Rorschach, he had all these psychological tests.
Jerry Marzinsky: And he would tell the patient, okay, I'm gonna give you these tests. Don't let the voices influence them. You just take these tests yourself. And he says, I'm gonna give the voices a second set of tests, you know, to see what happens there.
Jerry Marzinsky: And that's what he did. and don't think he told anybody but me that he was doing this. and What he said, the result was that the voices were much more psychotic than the patient was.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: that's what the vote That's what the test showed.
Beyond Terrain: Interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: So that was interesting.
Beyond Terrain: Very interesting. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: so So you you you look at what the frigging, you know, right now on the planet, we have more psychiatrists, we more psychologists, we got more psychiatric drugs than ever before in the history of mankind.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: And the the The number of schizophrenics is increasing every year. Nobody's getting better. Those drugs aren't curing anybody.
Jerry Marzinsky: Psychiatry isn't curing anybody. All they're doing is tamping down symptoms, all right? So you you look at and go, well, okay, this this is who's running our mental health systems right now in the entire Western world, psychiatry.
Jerry Marzinsky: You look at what they're doing, you know, Almost 50,000 people kill themselves a year in the United States. It may be higher than that now. fifty thousand 50,000. Where are those ideas coming from to kill yourself, that life is so bad, you've got to kill yourself?
Jerry Marzinsky: right
Beyond Terrain: yeah yeah wow
Jerry Marzinsky: A great number of them are on psychiatric drugs. you know They're on antipsychotics. They're on antidepressants. That's as many people that died in Vietnam. you know And the number's increasing.
Jerry Marzinsky: 24 veterans a day kill themselves. Between 1999 and 2019, the suicide rate increased 33%.
Beyond Terrain: wow
Jerry Marzinsky: Schizophrenic suicide at a rate three to five times that of the general population.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: But so do psychiatrists. So here psychiatrists are killing themselves at the same rate
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: that schizophrenics are killing themselves.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: Interesting.
Beyond Terrain: Very interesting.
Jerry Marzinsky: So, over 100,000 Americans are diagnosed with schizophrenia yearly. Nobody's getting any better. If I had to give this mental health system a grade, it would be an F minus.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: People are getting worse every year. They're not getting better. you know But you you look at what's behind the scenes. The global technology, anti-psychotic sales globally around the world have soared to $14.54 billion dollars in 2021. And they're estimated to hit $15.5 billion in 2022. It's probably much higher than that now.
Jerry Marzinsky: We're talking billion billions of dollars.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: It's not millions, it's billions.
Beyond Terrain: Millions, yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: They're selling these these toxic drugs that are rotting out people's brains that are only treating symptoms
Beyond Terrain: It's
Jerry Marzinsky: and they're making billions of dollars doing it. The antidepressant market is scheduled to reach 15.98 billion, billion again, by 2023.
Beyond Terrain: unreal. No.
Jerry Marzinsky: Nobody's getting any better. you know Matter of fact, there wasn't anything I saw that was making people any better until i one day um this fellow wrote me and he goes,
Jerry Marzinsky: This is different from most of the emails I get. He goes, I got somebody you need to meet. you know And he said, at worst, she'll just be a jolly old lady.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know And I ah thought about that for a few days and I like, well, should I answer this? And then it got my curiosity up. And I finally answered it and met up with this Jolly old lady in I think Perth, Australia.
Jerry Marzinsky: I think she was in Australia. And we hit it off pretty good oh you know to start with. And she was talking about something called the the MACE energy method.
Jerry Marzinsky: And I was asking her all kinds of questions about that. It kind of got my ah interest up because it made sense. All right.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So I went and got the books and I read both the books that Mace wrote and it made ah lot of sense. It made more sense than anything else i'd I'd studied in graduate school, anything I'd studied in undergraduate school, anything I'd studied in the PhD program, all the all the in- servicevice hundreds of hours of in-service trainings I had.
Jerry Marzinsky: And you know i just I kept up the dialogue with her and she said, well, and And I started using it with my my patients and it was working. you know They were getting better.
Jerry Marzinsky: the the The cause of their their symptoms was disappearing. And it was it was amazing. I'd never seen anything like it. So just based on reading everything I could find and getting Mace's books, this was working.
Jerry Marzinsky: John Mace was not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but he he was a genius, but he was a ship captain. He drove these big freighters back and forth across the ocean. right And he came up with this system.
Jerry Marzinsky: And, you know, i kept talking to Cherie about this. And then finally she said, well, why don't you come and get certified in this and the system?
Jerry Marzinsky: And I said, well, why should I do that? It's already working. You know, whats so I've already got it working. She said, well, that's just the tip of the iceberg, you know. And I said, well, how much does it cost?
Jerry Marzinsky: And she said, $5,000. five thousand dollars And I went, ugh.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So eventually I ended up doing it. And this is ah what it's called is a um energetic psychotherapy.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So it's not like a traditional psychotherapy at all. So your spirit is energy. know Your thoughts are energy. Your memory is energy.
Jerry Marzinsky: Everything about you is energy. This system works with energy. So what Mace found out was that when you run into a trauma, he said most psychological problems are caused by trauma.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: What happens with that trauma is that bad feeling and that shock stays there and it kind of torments you forever. And finally the ego shows up and goes, okay, ah let me handle this.
Jerry Marzinsky: And it takes that trauma and those bad feelings, and it throws it into your subconscious mind and then locks it down so it can't get out. Now it's not, so you're not feeling it anymore.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: It's not tormenting you anymore, but it's now it's in there and it's still alive. It's not dead. It's locked down. It wants to get out. The ego won't let it out. So there's a pressure ridge.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's pushing to get out. The ego's keeping it in. That's taking energy from the limited amount of energy you have to hold that trauma and those bad feelings in there.
Jerry Marzinsky: right
Beyond Terrain: And now
Jerry Marzinsky: but it's affecting you psychologically. and It's like a mind a virus. It's like a computer virus. It's still alive. It's affecting your behavior. It's affecting what you think. It's affecting what you do.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's affecting how you feel. It's affecting what you say. It's affecting what you don't say. And it's operating subconsciously without your awareness. And you can't get at it because you're not aware of it.
Jerry Marzinsky: So the way it manifests itself
Jerry Marzinsky: when you're don't when you're not aware of it, is that it triggers. when Whenever somebody that's similar to the person that caused that trauma shows up in your life, that thing goes off.
Jerry Marzinsky: Boom, it goes off. And it's basically saying, attack that person, run from that person, or avoid that person. He's too close to the person who traumatized you in the first place. So attack him or get away from him or hardly leave.
Jerry Marzinsky: But the universe keeps sending you people like that.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: So it's like the person you hate. It just keeps showing up over and over and over again, no matter where you go, right?
Beyond Terrain: um yeah yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: So that's that, that that they they call it and a negative identity. So there's two kinds of identities. of positive identity, there's a negative identity. Positive identities are like whatever you do for work or ah being a car driver, you know.
Jerry Marzinsky: You created those identities on purpose to help you survive on the planet. They were created consciously.
Beyond Terrain: No. Share it.
Jerry Marzinsky: You were aware that you created them. Negative identities are not created consciously. They're created during a trauma, during the maelstrom of a trauma, when everything is all confused and messed up.
Jerry Marzinsky: The ego comes and throws it into the subconscious, and all of a sudden, the feeling of it disappears, and you think you're done with it. You're not. It's still there. It's still alive. It's still active.
Beyond Terrain: there
Jerry Marzinsky: It's still going off, all right? So what Mace did was come up with a way to track down that negative identity, all right? and to identify it and get identify all its traits.
Jerry Marzinsky: right So it now is pulled out of the subconscious. Now you gotta get rid of it, which means you have to bring it one step closer to reality, because what you'll have is a bunch of traits.
Jerry Marzinsky: Like,
Jerry Marzinsky: i have ah have a list of them here.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: Okay, so some of the traits of this negative identity would be fearful, angry, sad, frustration, abusive abused, distrustful, guarded, confused, resentful, hopeless, helpless, despairing, anxiety, disappointed, all these negative all these negative feelings.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know So they extract them from this situation that they they were in.
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: a How'd you feel about this? Get those down. Then he needs to move it one closer step to reality. which turns it into an image. So you ask them, turn this this list into an image.
Jerry Marzinsky: Then you can set up the structure where um
Jerry Marzinsky: the the patient then discreates that image by staring at it. and you know Not thinking, not pushing it, just staring at that image, feeling that stuff
Beyond Terrain: Thank you.
Jerry Marzinsky: And what happens is it creates a pipeline to the spirit. So Mace found that energy moves from negative to positive. This negative energy in the mind is negative.
Jerry Marzinsky: If you create the link to the spirit, the spirit will dis-create it.
Jerry Marzinsky: So the spirit does it. So there's a spiritual component to this that has to be there or it won't work. but you know You don't have to address it, you just know it's there. So once you create the pathway to it, so that you're the person's attention is the conduit.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know By keeping their attention on it, they're creating the conduit to drain that negative emotional energy through the spirit, and the spirit then discreates it.
Jerry Marzinsky: Once that image is gone, the cause is now gone with it. And you ask them, all right, how do you feel about this this trauma now? ah It's something that happened.
Jerry Marzinsky: It doesn't bother me anymore.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Jerry Marzinsky: Just like that, it's gone. So this system gets to the cause of whatever you're dealing with. you know
Beyond Terrain: yeah
Jerry Marzinsky: It has ah has a harder time with schizophrenia. <unk>d I'd say I'm batting about 50% with schizophrenics right now. But it will remove the negative energy that these schizophrenics feed on that the voices feed off of.
Jerry Marzinsky: It will get rid of those, you know, and that will weaken the voices in and of itself.
Beyond Terrain: sure
Jerry Marzinsky: But it actually works. I've never seen anything work like it. There's more information on it on my website also.
Beyond Terrain: Wow.
Jerry Marzinsky: I've made some videos on, you go to the video section of my website, and there's videos on how it works there.
Beyond Terrain: Okay.
Beyond Terrain: Cool.
Jerry Marzinsky: But to yeah, any of you guys that are thinking, any of you who are thinking about taking psychiatric drugs
Beyond Terrain: Cool. Is the ah website...
Jerry Marzinsky: please go to causisminstitute.com and try a mace practitioner first. It's a lot cheaper than psychiatry.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: It's lot less dangerous and it's not going to poison your brain.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Good. um Is the website and your book the best places to learn more from you?
Jerry Marzinsky: Yes.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: ah Go to jerrymarzinski.com.
Beyond Terrain: Those are the big spots.
Jerry Marzinsky: there's There's probably 100 videos on there. from you know talking with different schizophrenics, giving their point of view. you know um yeah People actually who have been through it, talking about it you know and saying the voices are very real.
Beyond Terrain: Cool.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah,
Beyond Terrain: course.
Jerry Marzinsky: but
Beyond Terrain: Okay.
Jerry Marzinsky: it's It's not a hallucination. um
Beyond Terrain: Okay.
Jerry Marzinsky: you can You can purchase the book from my website or you can you can buy it over amazon.com. But if you go there, go to the to the website, you go to articles, pull up the That's a Lie program, study it, and put that to use.
Jerry Marzinsky: Anytime you have a negative thought, counter it with That's a Lie.
Beyond Terrain: and
Jerry Marzinsky: I'd say 95, 98% of what these things tell you are lies.
Beyond Terrain: aye Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: you know They don't care that they're lies. What they want to do is they want to upset you.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah. Amazing. Well, Dr. Marzinski, this has been a fantastic chat. I really, you know, I really value your time and your insight. I think it's, it's,
Beyond Terrain: I think you're hitting the nail on the head. So I just really, really appreciate you taking the time to come chat with us today and share him with the audience. I know that they're going to love this. They've been asking for a long time when you were going to come on.
Beyond Terrain: So finally it happened and and I appreciate that so very much.
Jerry Marzinsky: Well, I'll tell you what I could do is we can set up another one down the road someplace.
Beyond Terrain: So
Jerry Marzinsky: And I'll bring ah Judy Gregerson on with me who had, they they almost killed her.
Beyond Terrain: we should.
Jerry Marzinsky: They tried several times to kill her.
Beyond Terrain: Yeah.
Jerry Marzinsky: She's completely recovered. She will talk about what it was like to be schizophrenic, what the voices were like. She has absolutely no doubts in her in her mind that these things are demons. And she was she was cured with Christianity by turning to
Beyond Terrain: i
Jerry Marzinsky: ah but the positive side. right
Beyond Terrain: Wow. Amazing. Yeah, let's let's do it. That would be absolutely amazing. Thank you. Amazing. So thank you for today. Thank you for everything. really, really appreciate you being here.
Jerry Marzinsky: Okay, you're more than welcome.
Beyond Terrain: Great. Okay.
