Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Dune Prophecy
24 Plays17 days ago
News and Dune
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:19
Kevin Dougherty
all right welcome back to fright central i'm doc back here again as always with keck uh tonight we're going to talk about dune prophecy yeah i that hasn't gone a while the last couple times
00:00:28
Keck
Thanks for not asking how I'm doing. ah ah yeah It never it never never goes well. Yeah, ah well, before we get into the main topic, Doom Prophecy, I just wanted to give some news on Crystal Lake, and there is no news.
00:00:50
Keck
Doc, do you have anything you'd like to discuss before getting into Doom? Any
Oscar Wins and Surprises
00:00:54
Kevin Dougherty
Well, the yeah, the Academy Awards were last weekend, ah believe.
00:00:54
Keck
news?
00:00:58
Keck
Oh, God, I thought we weren't going to do this. Okay, let's get it.
00:01:01
Kevin Dougherty
Well, it's only I'm only mentioning the ones that are related to
00:01:06
Keck
True that.
00:01:07
Kevin Dougherty
hard
00:01:07
Keck
True that.
00:01:07
Kevin Dougherty
So, yeah.
00:01:08
Keck
Excuse me. i beg your pardon. My fault.
00:01:10
Kevin Dougherty
ah The Substance won Best Makeup and Hairstyling. So... ah to
00:01:16
Keck
oh Yeah. just real quick ah the substance i had told you i viewed nurses varattu with my mother over the weekend i put the substance on there and told her it was a romantic comedyy with demi more
00:01:24
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:01:30
Keck
and said i really think you'll like it and she was like oh that sounds great and i was like ya should watch you with tom
00:01:39
Keck
It starts off with Demi Moore. And she loves Dennis Quaid. So I was like, oh, God. i was like, this is Dennis Quaid's best character since Doc Holliday. And she's like, oh, yeah, I heard it was good. And I'm like, oh, it's really good. was like, you know, but, you know, it might make you cry. You know, it's a real tearjerker. And she's like oh, yeah, I'm going to check that out. I forgot to mention it to you. I think it's going to be great.
00:02:05
Keck
Oh, God. Will she get the bend?
00:02:06
Kevin Dougherty
read
00:02:07
Keck
No way.
00:02:09
Kevin Dougherty
ah how how far do you think she'll get I mean you get you definitely get to the point where she meets the guy on the street and then you could go you could be like okay this is a uh
00:02:17
Keck
The furthest I think she'll get is when Margaret Qualley crawls out of Demi Moore's back. I think if she has not like lost it by then, like because up until that point, you know it's kind of like ah you know it's the whole movie is like a feminist thing. So you have that vibe of like you know a woman fighting to get through these hard times and struggling to stay relevant.
00:02:44
Keck
So she could. But I think after that rips out, I give it if she doesn't like falter by then – She's either going to be done in five minutes or she's going to get through the entire movie and tell me like, yo, ah I am now into like sci-fi horror.
00:03:02
Keck
Yeah. but but That ain't going to happen. Although, my mom does watch a lot of horror.
00:03:06
Kevin Dougherty
You got any more like that, Brandon?
00:03:11
Keck
She does. like She likes horror mysteries, especially. like When I came over the other day, she was watching Jack Reacher at like full volume. and I know that's not a horror movie, but that's also something you don't expect your 73-year-old mother to be watching.
00:03:27
Keck
you know so
00:03:27
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:03:28
Keck
Anyway, but I just thought that was...
00:03:29
Kevin Dougherty
I mean, he's a huge dude.
00:03:31
Keck
Something funny. Yeah, I just wanted to share that. I thought that would be something funny. I can't.
00:03:37
Kevin Dougherty
She's going
00:03:37
Keck
I really can't wait. I was hoping she would watch it tonight and then yell at me tomorrow. ah But we'll see.
00:03:44
Kevin Dougherty
to call you in the middle of the cast.
00:03:44
Keck
Anyway.
00:03:45
Kevin Dougherty
Brandon, what the hell did I just watch?
00:03:46
Keck
yeah Yeah, like what? the notch There's no way she'll get through the whole thing. Half would be like my absolute, like if I had like a realistic expectation, I would say maybe half of the movie before she flips.
00:04:02
Keck
But I doubt it would get that far.
00:04:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:04:04
Keck
Anyway, ah yeah, so the substance cleaned up at the Oscars.
00:04:08
Kevin Dougherty
No, they won one Oscar.
00:04:09
Keck
One Oscar. Well, I mean, for a horror movie, I mean, that's that's cleaning up. ah
00:04:16
Kevin Dougherty
I guess.
00:04:17
Keck
and So anyway, what what else had success?
Dune Part II's Accolades and Reception
00:04:22
Kevin Dougherty
Well, Sub-Subs won Best to Makeup and Hairstyle, and Dune Part II won Best Sound and Best Visual Effects.
00:04:31
Keck
Oh, no shit.
00:04:33
Kevin Dougherty
So, I mean, I think it might have... I mean, the fact that that didn't win...
00:04:37
Keck
To my understanding, ah the second one was ah much better received than the first one, although both of them were well received. Is that your opinion as well?
00:04:46
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I don't remember what the first Dune, if that one had won any awards or not. I'm not going to go back and look at this point, but...
00:04:53
Keck
Yeah, no, no.
00:04:54
Kevin Dougherty
ah
00:04:55
Keck
It's not really. it doesn't It's not a big deal. um But, yeah. i mean well I mean, Dune's not really like your classical horror movie. It's more like sci-fi, right?
00:05:07
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, it's it's definitely real heavy sci-fi, but I feel like there's a lot of horror elements to it with the giant sandworms and fear is the mind killer and shit.
00:05:07
Keck
Yeah.
00:05:16
Keck
Yeah.
00:05:19
Keck
Not as much as Raised by Wolves. Raised by Wolves, I mean, it it really goes off the rail, but it has all this, like, well, I don't know why there was a serpent in it, but there was. And, um you know, but I got, like, a lot of, like, I mean, I did think Raised by Wolves was, like, brilliant sci-fi. And I guess it was... um Well, let's get into prophecy before I start naming actors and go way out.
00:05:48
Keck
We're still in news. But anyway, anything else at the Oscars that was like noteworthy?
00:05:53
Kevin Dougherty
no those those were the only two worth mentioning and uh and dune is dune winning shit was relevant to doing the tv series so i have any other news beyond that
00:06:05
Keck
Yeah.
00:06:08
Keck
Well, one thing is before well getting into Dune Prophecy, ah I noticed it had really mixed reviews. And ah i don't understand the reception because I thought it was quality. And I never saw, um I believe I did watch the first Dune reboot.
00:06:30
Keck
But I really don't have any memory of it. I did not see the second Dune, despite you having encouraged me to do so. And obviously it did well at the Oscars, so i mean I'm sure it's a good flick.
00:06:43
Keck
What I really remember is Kyle MacLachlan and the first Dune movie. And I remember thinking that that was like ahead of its time in terms of the effects they use. I remember being like, I think that and Tron came out within a few years of one another, like the two original. And I remember thinking like that Dune just kicked the fucking shit out of Tron in terms of special effects. Yeah.
00:07:10
Keck
But anyway, getting into Dune Prophecy, since you've seen the first two movies, ah how do you think the series lives up to the films?
The Dune Series: A Historical Context
00:07:21
Kevin Dougherty
i think I think it's a great setup. I mean, it the ah series takes place like 10,000 years before the ah movie.
00:07:28
Kevin Dougherty
So, yeah.
00:07:28
Keck
Oh, really?
00:07:28
Keck
Was it that was it that far? ah Did they mention that in like the opening credits? like Did they give you a timeline? I don't remember.
00:07:37
Kevin Dougherty
ah In Dune Prophecy, yes, I i believe they said it's...
00:07:40
Keck
They do give, okay.
00:07:41
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. So it takes place...
00:07:42
Keck
So you have like the idea of like where it is in the Dune universe.
00:07:47
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and it's not that long after the ah they've you know fought against you know the AI and robots and they band all ah they've banned all you know um advanced technology.
00:07:56
Keck
yeah
00:08:00
Keck
What they call them? Thinking machines is what they – I mean it's kind of like a warning for us.
00:08:02
Kevin Dougherty
Thinking machines, yes.
00:08:06
Keck
Well, I mean mad shit's been a warning for us against AI. But yeah, we're kind of on a roller coaster that has no end and there's no stopping in sight.
00:08:10
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, every sci-fi movie.
00:08:16
Keck
So fuck. I just hope I'm dead before Skynet goes live.
00:08:22
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:08:23
Keck
you
00:08:24
Kevin Dougherty
And this was a kind of based off of like um not the original Frank Herbert books, but one of the later ones that his son wrote, um ah Sisterhood of the Dune.
The Sisterhood's Influence and Prophecies
00:08:36
Kevin Dougherty
I mean, there's definitely ah some changes that were made. I've never even got that far. I've only ever read the first book. So I can tell you, i mean, here it gets real wild after the third one anyway, but...
00:08:46
Kevin Dougherty
ah
00:08:46
Keck
Is the sisterhood prominently featured in the films as like a major faction?
00:08:53
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yes, yes.
00:08:53
Keck
Okay. Yeah.
00:08:54
Kevin Dougherty
the the It's the Bene Gesseric. are as This is kind of like the origins of that, where they're all, ah each of them are like kind of truth sayers.
00:08:57
Keck
Yeah.
00:09:05
Kevin Dougherty
So they kind of align themselves with ah higher ups of like different, you know, major houses, like in in Game of Thrones, you know?
00:09:13
Keck
Yeah. Now, a truesayer, they're able to detect lies or you know, deception, but they also kind of act as, i guess they interpret like what another leader or, you know, another huge faction is saying.
00:09:18
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:09:30
Keck
And they kind of advise, like, they're sort of like, um you know, how the sorceresses in the Witcher were kind of sent to advise kings.
00:09:36
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:09:38
Keck
It's pretty much the same thing.
00:09:41
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
00:09:41
Keck
um Only, i guess, in The Witcher, those women had a lot more power.
00:09:47
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:09:47
Keck
People
00:09:48
Kevin Dougherty
Well, I mean, in a sense, the sisterhood really have all the power because they're the ones that ah you know align themselves with different houses and doing shit.
00:09:56
Keck
are doing shady genetic experiments.
00:09:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:10:00
Keck
I didn't see that coming. ah Do you want to like maybe discuss it? Is that like anything that's featured in the films before? Because to me, the genetic creation of Kings just kind of seemed like a little bit like out there compared to like the rest of the story.
00:10:19
Keck
um But I mean, I still thought it was cool.
00:10:20
Kevin Dougherty
No, that that's whats that's what it's all about.
00:10:23
Keck
Always been.
00:10:23
Kevin Dougherty
It's all about, yeah.
00:10:24
Keck
It's always been. to All right. Yeah, I don't bring remember that.
00:10:26
Kevin Dougherty
yeah their whole Yeah, their whole deal is trying to create, you know, they to and they're eventually, want they want to create, the you know, this ultimate, you know, the the the Messiah.
00:10:37
Keck
like ah gaca like a like a Gattaca like scenario for the philosopher king so that they don't like you know ah to basically make sure you're not going to anoint a Targaryen to your you know what I mean like you're going to have somebody of like a level head
00:10:38
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:10:41
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:54
Kevin Dougherty
yeah and it's not necessarily yet like Yeah, and it's not necessarily like messing with like DNA in itself and like making this person in a lab. it's all about like
00:11:05
Keck
mental stability
00:11:05
Kevin Dougherty
b linking It's all about linking different families together and which ones would mash up and how far down the line this can go to to create the...
00:11:10
Keck
yeah
00:11:16
Kevin Dougherty
you know, the Messiah or whatever, and who may or may not be Paul Atreides.
00:11:18
Keck
Yeah.
00:11:21
Kevin Dougherty
Is it Paul Atreides or is it his son or is it the the other? So it's, gonna and they kind of go out and they go out into these different systems and they start planting the seed of this prophecy.
00:11:32
Kevin Dougherty
And that's how you get like the, the Fremen on, ah on Arrakis, you know?
00:11:38
Keck
But only the sisters are aware of this, correct? Because that that they obviously don't know that they're being created in a lab, right?
00:11:42
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. Yeah.
00:11:49
Kevin Dougherty
Well, they're not being created in lab. It's being...
00:11:51
Keck
But they're being fucked with. Like, they are being manipulated, like, completely manipulated entire time.
00:11:54
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:11:58
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, yeah oh you mean do the do the the heads of these houses know that?
00:12:00
Keck
Like, yeah.
00:12:02
Kevin Dougherty
No, they have no idea. like they Yeah. they
00:12:04
Keck
that's what That's what I meant.
00:12:05
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yeah, they kind of manipulate the different people in their and their sisterhood and stuff to kind of like put people in positions of of power and to get people to to you know to mate pretty much and
00:12:06
Keck
That's what I was trying to say.
00:12:20
Kevin Dougherty
and uh and proceed the front line
00:12:20
Keck
Yeah. And they believe that this will eventually grant them the Messiah. And i mean, one of the themes I heard, though, was like creating like level headed leaders that would, you know, make wise decisions while following the sisterhood.
00:12:38
Keck
And ah it was in their interest to have like a galactic peace as well. Like, you know, level headed individuals. Yeah. And that would eventually bring on like the discovery of their Messiah or, you know, am I in the right?
00:12:47
Kevin Dougherty
yeah yeah pretty much
00:12:54
Kevin Dougherty
yeah good Yeah, pretty much.
00:12:54
Keck
but Is that?
00:12:55
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Who they can then put on the ah throne as like you know the the leader and stuff.
00:13:00
Keck
Yeah.
00:13:00
Kevin Dougherty
so yeah And sometimes you might have
00:13:02
Keck
And that would like usher in like a golden age, like in their prophecies. Yeah.
00:13:08
Kevin Dougherty
to...
00:13:08
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, pretty much. yeah and um But like the the prophecies are all... they' It's not like you know something like that that gets handed down to them through God or something.
00:13:08
Keck
Got you.
00:13:17
Keck
They didn't see it on like a cave painting.
00:13:18
Kevin Dougherty
It's it
00:13:19
Keck
There was no Sanskrit or like drawings.
00:13:20
Kevin Dougherty
and it it's straight up a prophecy of their own making. They're like, Hey, one day there's going to be this Messiah that comes to save us all. And like, they're the ones manipulating to that path.
00:13:34
Kevin Dougherty
You know what mean?
00:13:34
Keck
And they also create the entire story.
00:13:34
Kevin Dougherty
So.
00:13:37
Keck
So they're like the biblical writers and they're trying to like make their own made up bullshit come to pass.
00:13:48
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, but I mean, they do have, like, you know, they they do have the true saying ability, and then you actually see it in the show the first time um one of the sisters is able to use the what they call the voice.
00:14:00
Keck
Yeah.
00:14:00
Kevin Dougherty
It's kind of like the Force in Star Wars. I mean, the the Star Wars is kind of a complete ripoff of Dune, but...
00:14:03
Keck
yeah
00:14:06
Keck
Yeah.
00:14:07
Kevin Dougherty
among other things, but it's it's just an easy way to compare it, where they use this voice where it's like a different tone. It can control other people into doing things for them. And that's like the first time you see that ah um is ah happens in the in this show. I mean, you see it happen in the movies as well, but I mean, like like the sisterhood has already been like established for a number of years at this point.
00:14:31
Kevin Dougherty
And it's kind of these two sisters who are the Harkonian who in the movies are like the, the bad guys. Uh, but ah the, Paul Atreides is actually the, you know, uh, this mother was like part, uh, Harkonnen and stuff. So it all kind of links, links back together, about putting these different houses together.
00:14:52
Kevin Dougherty
ah so like in the, in the movie, you're kind of like, oh, the Harkonnens are the bad guys. and the tradies are the good guys, but in in reality, it's all manipulated, you know, from other houses and stuff like that.
00:15:03
Kevin Dougherty
So, uh,
00:15:05
Keck
And when you talk about the voice, um is that featured in the films?
00:15:11
Kevin Dougherty
yes, yes.
00:15:12
Keck
I did not know that. Okay, because I thought that was something, that's something, a Sister, what was her
00:15:14
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
Character Focus: Desmond Hart
00:15:18
Keck
name, Vanya?
00:15:19
Kevin Dougherty
Uh, think so. Uh, if you want to reference, yeah, when, uh, yeah.
00:15:21
Keck
emily Emily Watson's character. She's the one that like cultivates it. Right. She talks about, she's like, this is something that I've been honing and I'm willing to share this with you.
00:15:26
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:15:35
Keck
But like the one check who was set to take over after the death of like, you know, their other like matriarch, like she wasn't for it. And so she like makes her like, yeah, slit her own throat.
00:15:47
Keck
Right. Yeah.
00:15:47
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:15:48
Keck
Yeah.
00:15:48
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:15:48
Keck
Then she comes back in spirit. Yeah, that is very Star Wars, like coming back from the nether regions. But although I don't know about Star Wars, like ghosts, like ever possessing someone's body.
00:15:55
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:16:01
Keck
So I mean, but.
00:16:01
Kevin Dougherty
no yeah Yeah, they have ah well, um to go back to the David Lynch film you know, when like saying his name is like the is a voice to to say to kill ah but they're yeah like he's using the voice in that movie as well so like that's that's the way to describe it and that's how they kind of keep them still and stuff, you know stop people from doing anything yeah
00:16:03
Keck
Yeah.
00:16:17
Keck
Yeah.
00:16:20
Keck
Yeah.
00:16:26
Keck
Yeah. And you basically just manipulate them to do anything. You say, you know, slit your throat or, you know, ah cut your nuts off or, you know, whatever.
00:16:35
Kevin Dougherty
and Yeah, yeah.
00:16:36
Keck
You're good.
00:16:36
Kevin Dougherty
Or kill somebody else.
00:16:37
Keck
You.
00:16:37
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:16:38
Keck
Yeah, ah I mean, you would need, like, extremely strong will to be able to, you know, ah avoid that, to alleviate them from being able to control you.
00:16:51
Keck
Now, ah Travis Fimmel, ah who played Desmond Hart, I don't know if he's even in the first episode. i could be wrong. Doesn't he come in in the second episode?
00:17:03
Kevin Dougherty
I think he's either end of the first or second episode, I believe, yeah.
00:17:03
Keck
Yeah.
00:17:06
Keck
He's credited – IMDb only credits him for five episodes, so I think it's not until episode two that he comes in.
00:17:17
Keck
But um one thing I liked really cool was when they introduced his character. When you see um the one king, um is king correct?
00:17:29
Kevin Dougherty
Mark Strong.
00:17:30
Keck
Yeah. Is King correct? Is that what they called them? They were kings, right?
00:17:35
Kevin Dougherty
think I think it's Emperor.
00:17:36
Keck
Or were they Roars, Emperor? Well, whatever.
00:17:38
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:17:39
Keck
King, Emperor.
00:17:39
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:17:40
Keck
ah He watches the video of the guy who ah travels Phil's character, Desmond Hart. Apparently, like, his entire unit got, like, cut to pieces on this planet, and somehow he gets swallowed by a giant sandworm and, like, you know, survives that because, like, there's a weird machine.
00:17:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:18:02
Keck
Maybe you could talk more about it. Because I was just like, what the fuck is going on? And like, but the scene I really liked was when ah that one Emperor King was like watching like the footage of him getting swallowed by the sandworm. And like he knew he was fucked. So he kind of like drops to his knees and puts his hand out like, you know, totally surrendering. Like, I know I'm done.
00:18:28
Keck
And I just, like, he watches that and the expression on his face after he sees him get eaten by the sandworm is just priceless. Because it's literally, like, you would think, like, what the fuck?
00:18:41
Keck
Like, how the fuck did he survive that?
00:18:41
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yeah, as soon as that actor shows up in this, I'm like, oh, this guy's going to real scumbag, isn't he?
00:18:51
Keck
Yeah.
00:18:52
Kevin Dougherty
Because I just saw him in Raised by Wolves was the last thing, and I hated the character that, i'm like, I'm going to hate him in this.
00:18:55
Keck
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude, I thought his character in that was great. He was totally crazed out of his mind, which he pretty much is in everything I've seen.
00:19:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Pretty it.
00:19:05
Keck
Like in Vikings, like he has like this great speech when he's like finally being put to death ah because he plays like loosely a character that did really exist.
00:19:18
Keck
And like he's just totally crazed in that. And he was totally crazed and raised by wolves and he's Totally fucking crazy.
00:19:25
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:19:25
Keck
So everything everything i've seen him in...
00:19:29
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:19:30
Keck
Well, he's kind of, I guess Vikings would be like his best mentally stable character would be in Vikings. I guess he's sort of playing like a period piece where he's like based on like a character that existed. And they probably said like, yo, man, cool like you take your meds during the filming of this. And like, then you could go back off them again.
00:19:55
Keck
But yeah, he's crazed in everything he's in. I love it.
00:19:59
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, ah well, ah he was yeah so he was swallowed by the sandworm, and then it we still we'll probably get into it in the next season, but ah it seems he was saved by like some androids or AI or something, a thinking machine.
00:20:13
Keck
That's not what I would call it. You would say that that was saved because I got the ah i got the inference from watching the show that the sister said that he was being used and manipulated.
00:20:26
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, well, I mean, but he was saved by them.
00:20:28
Keck
Yeah.
00:20:30
Kevin Dougherty
Like, he didn't he didn't die.
00:20:30
Keck
Oh, yeah.
00:20:31
Kevin Dougherty
like Yeah, yeah.
00:20:31
Keck
You mean it saved in the sense that they didn't...
00:20:34
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, because they then they put they like this virus in him, you know, that feeds on fear.
00:20:34
Keck
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:20:40
Keck
Yeah.
00:20:40
Kevin Dougherty
And that was, like, created by the machines. But, you know, since it was coming from him, he wasn't really, you know, affected as well. I mean, you could see, like, sometimes his skin would start burning and stuff like that. But this is kind of...
00:20:51
Keck
Oh, yeah. he had the ah He got the ability to like burn people alive from like the inside out, right?
00:20:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, it was pretty much, yeah, the the virus ah would escape. And and would and that's this is why, like, all the people, all the sisterhoods where were seeing this, like, vision of, like, the blue eye.
00:21:09
Kevin Dougherty
or like, they were seeing seeing the blue eyes or the man. And, like, ah we don't know what the man is yet that was in the shadows. But the blue eyes was, like, we find out was, like, the thinking machine that saved them. But, yeah, this this is kind of the whole start of the controlling your fear And can fear is the mind killer.
00:21:26
Kevin Dougherty
you know Put your hand in the box. If you can conquer fear, then you can conquer anything. This is kind of the origins of the whole ah of the Bene Gesseric being able to control their fears and stuff. Because by the end of that, they've either all controlled their fear or they've all been slaughtered by the takeover of Tullia and her sister, Valiya.
00:21:49
Kevin Dougherty
And, uh, and it's, yeah. So I thought that was really nice, uh, origin story for that, for that ability as well in this, uh, in the show.
00:21:57
Keck
Yeah, yeah. and Anyone that's familiar with the um Mass Effect video games, they um the sci-fi, like, Space Odyssey thing with, like, the destruction of the universe by the Reapers,
00:22:12
Keck
ah you will I would think that you would be really into Dune prophecy because there's a lot of like very similar themes with what you just said about controlling your fear and about like you know these sentient machines that like learn to think like way better than they were. Well, I mean, it's not that's not really what the Reapers were, but well...
00:22:39
Keck
I don't know. If you are into Mass Effect, like watch Doom Prophecy and see what you think because I think you'll like it. There's some common shared themes.
00:22:49
Keck
um But yeah, I mean, they're different stories like completely, but there's a lot of like common themes with like the thinking machines. it's It's pretty fucking cool. i mean And that that's the thing i wanted to ask you before going too much more in this.
00:23:06
Keck
What are your feelings about like what I would call rather poor reception to the Dune Prophecy television series on HBO compared to the massive success that the films seem to have had?
00:23:22
Kevin Dougherty
I don't know. I mean, it does it does still have a 7.3 on IMDb. I haven't really read any i haven't read any reviews outside of that.
00:23:27
Keck
That's piss poor. I mean, compared compared to big budget, like ah stuff that's released by HBO, like a 7.3 is considered to be a fail. I mean, that's really low on the spectrum. And I was looking at the films and I think both films were incredibly well received.
00:23:48
Keck
So I was just curious as to, do you have any like ideas as to why the series would have had like a lesser appeal? Because I would think that this would like boost the series.
00:24:03
Keck
People would be pumped from watching the films, or I guess they watched the series and just thought it felt completely flat. Like, because from what you're telling me is that this series equates almost all of the elements and that made the film successful.
00:24:19
Keck
And so I guess I'm trying to wonder what the fuck happened in the kind of words.
00:24:20
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:24:23
Kevin Dougherty
Well, like I said, I didn't read any reviews, so I don't know about any of this this other discourse or anything like that.
00:24:30
Keck
Yeah, I did. i did ah go into some forums on Reddit. I went into the IMDB forums and ah a lot of the discussions actually just got off the handles and people just start calling each other names, like trolling, like bullshit.
00:24:46
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:24:47
Keck
But like you could tell people were really passionate about the topic or like to send it into angry conversations.
00:24:54
Kevin Dougherty
Well, it could either be ah could either be people who hadn't seen the movies and were trying to watch this and had no idea what was going on.
00:24:55
Keck
I was just wondering if you knew anything about that.
00:25:02
Keck
but Yeah, possible.
00:25:02
Kevin Dougherty
ah could be It could be people that had like you know read the books and were super excited about like you know what they were going to do.
00:25:11
Keck
Well, that's a common cause of everything, but then the movies wouldn't have been well-received.
00:25:12
Kevin Dougherty
and then and
00:25:15
Keck
You know, if everybody goes by the books.
00:25:15
Kevin Dougherty
Well, not necessarily because the movie the two movies are really close to the book.
00:25:21
Keck
Are they?
00:25:22
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, they're they've only looked
00:25:23
Keck
Because I never read the literature at all. I've never read any deeper.
00:25:26
Kevin Dougherty
I listened to the audiobook like last August. so last September, August.
00:25:30
Keck
Was it good?
00:25:31
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, it was good. The audiobook is really well done, too.
00:25:34
Keck
yeah
00:25:35
Kevin Dougherty
um And yeah, there was only maybe few slight changes and and mostly just some things like left out that they're going to save for the next book because it was only like... You know, like the Spacing Guild only shows up for like a minute or two and it was kind of like... And in the first movie, I think it's like a...
00:25:55
Kevin Dougherty
what was it It was like a giant weird brain whale type thing in a tube. I'm not sure how to describe it.
00:26:02
Keck
Oh, I remember that.
00:26:03
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. And it only shows up shortly. So I think they decided to like, well, since it's only no, cause it's in the, it's in the original.
00:26:07
Keck
fuck that I didn't see the second movie, but I remember what you're talking about. Original?
00:26:13
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:26:14
Keck
Okay, I was going to say, how the fuck would I have known that?
00:26:15
Kevin Dougherty
Cause the two, the two, movies the two most recent do movies are ah just cover one book.
00:26:22
Keck
Yeah.
00:26:23
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, so i think they just decided to leave the ah the Spacing Guild, like the look of it, out to save it for the next movie, is my guess.
00:26:23
Keck
Okay.
00:26:31
Keck
So your hypothesis is...
00:26:32
Kevin Dougherty
But...
00:26:34
Keck
Probably like people were like just being overly critical of the series because it didn't touch on certain points that they felt or they thought that the movies, while being very close to the book, maybe the series like ventured a little too off topic or am I misconstruing you?
00:26:54
Kevin Dougherty
I don't know. i ah Like I said, I didn't read anybody's ah thoughts on it, so I don't know why why people are
00:26:58
Keck
Yeah.
Series Reception vs. Films
00:27:00
Kevin Dougherty
upset.
00:27:00
Kevin Dougherty
I really liked the show. I thought it was really well done.
00:27:02
Keck
I did too. I did too.
00:27:03
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:27:04
Keck
And I don't remember the first reboot. Like I said, I never saw the second. And the first original one, i have not seen in at least 15 years. So that is hazy to say the least.
00:27:19
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:27:19
Keck
But I really liked the series, and I didn't, like, check IMDb or check anybody's opinion on anything until I had finished the series.
00:27:31
Kevin Dougherty
Thank you.
00:27:32
Keck
So, like, I went – because if I had gone into it after reading that, would have, like, immediately – doomed it So like I've been trying to like actively avoid like reception and you know get a better opinion of myself.
00:27:47
Keck
Because even if um like I see something that I want to see and it's been shit on, I'll still generally watch it. But... The plague, the seed of doubt has been dropped in my mind and you're just not getting a fresh perspective.
00:28:03
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:03
Keck
So I was just curious if you had any insight into that. You really don't know. You think that this was consistent with the films.
00:28:08
Kevin Dougherty
I've been avoiding, like, I'm the same but same i'm same with you recently, like but I don't even wait until after to see what everyone else is thinking. I just watch it, and then if I like it, I fucking like it.
00:28:20
Kevin Dougherty
like If somebody else doesn't fucking like it, I don't really give a shit if you don't.
00:28:21
Keck
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:24
Kevin Dougherty
like Everybody has their own different opinion on shit, so it's like, it's like I'm not going to let other people
00:28:26
Keck
Oh, yeah. yeah I don't care whether i like something someone else doesn't like. I'm just trying to like understand like why you know this seems...
00:28:38
Keck
You're telling me that like you thought that this a show captured and encapsulated everything that was in the movies pretty well, right?
00:28:48
Keck
You thought it...
00:28:48
Kevin Dougherty
yeah i mean i mean it' definitely I mean, it definitely helps if you've seen the movies to catch a lot of the references in the show.
00:28:49
Keck
Obviously, they had to leave some shit out, but...
00:28:57
Kevin Dougherty
But I mean, I think you can go into this show without having seen the movies like like you did.
00:29:00
Keck
Yeah, I mean, that's that's for me. And the thing is, if you go into the show and you're aware that there's already two films and you don't watch those films and you go into the show and you don't know what the fuck is going on, that's your fault.
00:29:03
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:29:15
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. I mean, they kind of ah they do explain enough in the show that like that could set you up.
00:29:16
Keck
is So...
00:29:20
Keck
That's what I thought.
00:29:22
Kevin Dougherty
like you could now so i I think you, after watching the show, you can go into the movies and get a better understanding of certain things in the movies, too.
00:29:28
Keck
Yeah. Yeah, probably. But I thought like the first 15 minutes of the show was like a comprehensive breakdown of exactly what is going on in the world.
00:29:40
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:40
Keck
And, and, you know, it just characters get added in and, you the show progresses, but like, yeah, I thought like, because I think I had told you, I tried to watch this with a friend and I watched the same 15 20 minutes,
00:29:55
Keck
three times Before i actually get.
00:29:57
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, yeah that's right. You did say that when you first started watching it, yeah.
00:29:59
Keck
So I watched the first 15 20 minutes a fourth time when I finally got through the first episode. Because I said, if I do not get through this first episode, we we're just very tired.
00:30:10
Keck
It wasn't the content.
00:30:11
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:12
Keck
And I said, if I do this a fourth time and I fail, fuck it. I'm never watching Dune. But like, yeah, I thought that so I really after watching the introduction like narrative, like I really felt like I knew what was going on.
00:30:18
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:30:29
Keck
ah So, yeah, it's not like they didn't do a good job of explaining like intense, like sci-fi elements that were going to be present. I thought they did a great
00:30:39
Kevin Dougherty
Maybe there's too many women in the show, Kak. I don't know, with people these fucking days.
00:30:42
Keck
ah that That was a positive for me.
00:30:44
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:30:44
Keck
So I don't know. or Yeah, maybe there weren't.
00:30:46
Kevin Dougherty
I mean, that's what the whole...
00:30:47
Keck
Yeah, maybe there were not enough. Like maybe there wasn't enough diversity in the show. Who the fuck knows?
00:30:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:30:54
Keck
I just want to know if you had a hypothesis. I'm not going to waste any more time on the opinions of others.
00:31:00
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:00
Keck
But um as you were saying, I'm sorry, you were um we were talking about the fan worm and all that.
00:31:01
Kevin Dougherty
Back
00:31:05
Kevin Dougherty
back back to Desmond.
00:31:08
Keck
Yeah.
00:31:09
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, back to Desmond. ah By the end, you do find out that like he was... I don't remember if was Tullia. I think it was Tullia's son that she had hid from her sister.
00:31:19
Keck
Yes, correct.
00:31:19
Kevin Dougherty
and Yeah, she she had like ah sent away. ah Yeah, they I love really like the backstory of the two sisters and how like they were on this ice planet thing and they had been wronged by the Atreides and they were kind of banished and they weren't a major house anymore.
00:31:27
Keck
Yeah, i I like that too.
00:31:36
Kevin Dougherty
So it kind of does kind of build up to them like getting power and, um, and they get revenge on the, uh, atreides as well. And that at that camp when she's like working for him and then she just sliders them all.
00:31:48
Kevin Dougherty
I thought that shit was so fucking pissed.
00:31:49
Keck
Yeah. Yeah, it was really pissed.
00:31:51
Kevin Dougherty
so
00:31:52
Keck
Now, um when she ah hides her son, she hides her son from everyone.
00:31:59
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:31:59
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:31:59
Keck
Like, no one knows, including Valet, who's basically her closest confidant, you know.
00:32:06
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:32:06
Keck
um And she ah hints that she didn't tell her because I guess she did not trust her either at the time.
00:32:18
Keck
um She kind of thought like, you know, although she, well, that's something I don't know if we touched on. There's two different factions inside the sisterhood as terms of who should be the natural successor of the sisterhood.
00:32:36
Keck
And that is what created like a bit of like a unstable, I don't know, sort of like a Cold War within, like, because none of the other sisters know that Vala actually was behind ah the death of the one who ah was against the...
00:33:00
Keck
original mother's vision. She wanted to no longer do the genetic altering. She did not believe that. I don't think we touched on that. So there's a faction within the sisterhood. They have two different theories of thought.
00:33:17
Keck
One believed that like you know this whole fucking genetic... Because a lot the sisters, and excuse me for jumping around with my thoughts so much, but this is sort of a complex situation.
00:33:29
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. Yeah.
00:33:30
Keck
and we didn't really mention this, the genetic thing, there's only two or three other sisters that know this is even going on, right? Right.
00:33:39
Kevin Dougherty
Well, there there's only ah couple that know that they're using a thinking machine to plan it out.
00:33:46
Keck
Yes. well But, like, aren't there other sisters that don't even know about, like, the engineering?
00:33:46
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. yeah they aren yeah
00:33:53
Keck
Like, because I got the idea that only a select few had been in that, like, restricted access layer where they have to, like, go through, like, the secret door and the wall and shit like that.
00:33:55
Kevin Dougherty
it's
00:34:06
Keck
Like...
00:34:06
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, when the one girl gets sick, they have to take it. They want to save her, so they take her in there. And like yeah and then a few more people discover that they are using thinking machines, which are like, they're banned across the thing.
00:34:15
Keck
Yeah. yeah ah Yeah, I mean, the penalty is death for having these things.
00:34:18
Kevin Dougherty
and They can't get you. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:21
Keck
say They were considering executing a child for having one of these things, and they were considering executing the parents of one of the child as it being just so unseemly reckless that their kid could even have that.
00:34:25
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:34:36
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:34:38
Keck
So... ah Yeah, thinking machines are really fucking frowned on. And they're also in the dark and ignorant of the fact that, like, all of their political discourse is still kind of being ruled by these machines in secret.
00:34:56
Keck
So, yeah it's there's a lot of complexities to this plot.
00:34:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah,
00:35:01
Keck
And I'm i'm just trying to, like, sum it up the best I can.
00:35:05
Kevin Dougherty
yeah, yeah.
00:35:05
Keck
that's all I've got. is so
00:35:07
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, no, yeah think yeah, I think you've got a good grasp over it, yeah.
00:35:10
Keck
Yeah.
00:35:11
Kevin Dougherty
um
00:35:11
Keck
But that's what I mean. And like I said, I did not, I don't remember the first movie, haven't seen the second movie, and I still was able to pretty much gauge exactly what the fuck was going on Dune universe at this time.
00:35:23
Keck
So,
Arrakis and the Spice Economy
00:35:24
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. and the And then at the end, they do go to... um they You do see them go to Arrakis at the very end. And the whole thing with Arrakis is like that's where the spice is you know is from.
00:35:24
Keck
anyway.
00:35:38
Kevin Dougherty
is the most...
00:35:38
Keck
Oh, yeah, the spice.
00:35:39
Kevin Dougherty
and and the spices the most
00:35:40
Keck
ah Do you want to explain the spice?
00:35:42
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, the spice is the most valuable thing in the universe. It's so what allows us to have space travel. It's what the Spacing Guild uses for space travel to to get you at long distances.
00:35:54
Kevin Dougherty
and
00:35:54
Keck
it's like gravity drive fuel. It's the fuel that they use to propel themselves using like the light speed warp technology that, yeah.
00:35:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, pretty much.
00:36:03
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, it's and it's also used in medicine, but then it's also a drug as well. So yeah.
00:36:10
Keck
Multiple, yeah, it's got, yeah, it's a good, ah yeah, it's got a lot uses.
00:36:13
Kevin Dougherty
And since it's like a natural element on the Earth, it's it's also it's what the the the spice is like.
00:36:14
Keck
Yeah.
00:36:21
Kevin Dougherty
It's what the the sandworms like live off of. and it's And if you just breathe the air and you live on the planet for so long, your eyes will turn blue from the spice as well.
00:36:31
Keck
Yeah.
00:36:31
Kevin Dougherty
And then even at one point, the with the sisters have the the sister mother sister has the ability, if she takes this concoction ah drink, that could kill you. um if you're not strong enough, when she takes this drink, she gets to see the memories from all the past mothers as well.
00:36:50
Kevin Dougherty
So you get this whole lineage of knowledge, uh, when you get, uh,
00:36:53
Keck
Yeah. Well, that's what I wanted you to elaborate on. I want you because I, when, you know, I was talking about the Witcher and like the sorceresses, and that was something that I thought about when they talked about something called the agony.
00:37:10
Keck
I saw it as like ah it reminded me of the process that the witchers have to go through because, you know, only like a certain percentage of them succeed and survive the ritual. And it seemed that the same thing happened here.
00:37:29
Keck
um In fact, in order to experience the agony, usually there were like years of preparation and training just to prepare for this.
00:37:39
Keck
And what did they inject them with? They inject them with a syringe and it looked like it was like ah ah combination of fun and terrible things. Do you know what that was?
00:37:48
Kevin Dougherty
yeah yeah
00:37:49
Keck
Like, was that like them shooting the spice directly into their veins?
00:37:49
Kevin Dougherty
I don't know what the actual...
00:37:53
Keck
Like...
00:37:54
Kevin Dougherty
I don't remember the machine. I do remember in the in Dune Part 2 when Paul Atreides' mother, they they go into the with the Fremen and she's kind of forced to take it and on and but what she doesn't reveal is that she was pregnant at the time.
00:38:10
Keck
Yeah.
00:38:10
Kevin Dougherty
and And when she takes it like that also, like it could have not only killed her but killed the baby.
00:38:16
Keck
Yeah. And it would probably have effect on that.
00:38:17
Kevin Dougherty
about that, I like.
00:38:19
Keck
I have to assume that like if there's television commercials, they tell you not to take that shit while pregnant.
00:38:26
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah. She definitely comes out as like a powerful like sister like when she's like two or three years old. You know what I mean?
00:38:35
Keck
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:38
Kevin Dougherty
She's played by Anya Teo Joy, but she's only like in like some flash-forward scenes and in the newer movies. In the old ah movie and the ah old movie in the book, you get you get a little more of her as like you know ah like a two or three-year-old. Yeah, she's in the old movie as well.
00:38:55
Kevin Dougherty
um And ah yeah, she's like, I believe in the movie, she's the one that kills the Baron Arcanine. ah It's different in the in the book and in the and the new movie as well.
00:39:08
Keck
Wait, the Baron, was he the guy that had the child that had the learning device, that one that um that Desmond burns to death, ah which was really horrific death?
00:39:22
Kevin Dougherty
ah you need me Yes. Well, the sisters the sisters go to them at one point. um But I'm talking about in the movie, the Baron Harkin is the guy, the big fat guy floating around.
00:39:32
Keck
Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
00:39:33
Kevin Dougherty
yeah, yeah.
00:39:33
Keck
I'm thinking of a totally different character.
00:39:35
Kevin Dougherty
yeah yeah and when
00:39:35
Keck
Sorry. a Totally different character from two different places. Yeah, sorry.
00:39:39
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and when Paul Atreides takes it in the movie, he's not only able to see the past, but he can also see like you know potential futures as well. So like he's got like this all-powerful mind-seeing fucking dude who's like who's got like the most powerful voice and shit like that.
00:39:57
Kevin Dougherty
I'm sorry, in the...
00:39:58
Keck
so Is that Chris Madsen's character?
00:40:01
Kevin Dougherty
he
00:40:02
Keck
Mason's character? Excuse me.
00:40:04
Kevin Dougherty
i'm sorry and and what in the
00:40:05
Keck
He plays Karen Atreides? Is that who you're talking about? Because that was the one character I didn't really understand ah his exact motivations.
00:40:09
Kevin Dougherty
no
00:40:17
Keck
I wasn't sure. He was like ah the one that was training the young...
00:40:22
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, yes. He was part of the rebellion that was trying to take down the...
00:40:23
Keck
Okay. Okay.
00:40:27
Kevin Dougherty
They wanted to take out the Imperator.
00:40:27
Keck
The rebellion was the one thing that I was kind of confused on. Like, I'm sure, like, if I had watched the movies, I would have been, like, a lot more schooled on, like, what was going on with that.
00:40:41
Keck
I didn't really understand ah the exact, like, reasons for this ah rebellious group.
00:40:51
Kevin Dougherty
So that rebellion was all put together by the sisterhood and it was always meant to fail. Like the one girl that she would like he's with, she was part of the sisterhood.
00:40:59
Keck
Okay, so that was part of that stuff. Okay. are I did not – yeah, I did not –
00:41:02
Kevin Dougherty
it was Yeah, they had always intended that to to fail and and for and then for them to be, you know, martyred or let go or whatever. Because A, it was part of the, you know, getting back at the Atreides, it was also ah because that way they can get back closer to the Emperor and assert their control over the over the Emperor.
00:41:25
Kevin Dougherty
Because at the time, like, they were kind of ousted from the Emperor in place of Desmond at the end of the
00:41:30
Keck
How does Desmond survive that encounter? Like, you know how when they plant all those bombs to kind of like lure Desmond and like lure them all there and then they're going to blow them all up?
00:41:46
Keck
Desmond, again, is the only survivor. And like right before the explosion, like he hits like that thing, like that shield that kind of like helps you like when they're sparring in combat and shit.
00:41:59
Keck
That was the technology that like allowed him to survive that epic blast that killed everyone?
00:42:06
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, so the shield, it ah ah pretty much we'll we it's only allows slow-moving things to go through them. That's why it's always like a knife battle.
00:42:17
Kevin Dougherty
And it's always like fast movement with a slow stab, because you have to go slow to go through there.
00:42:17
Keck
Okay.
00:42:22
Kevin Dougherty
So any like bullets or anything like that is not going to penetrate the shield. So that's why a fast-moving fire will not penetrate the shield, and he'll survive.
00:42:29
Keck
and true But that that had a lot, I mean, in an explosion like that, it's not just fire. You're going to be hit with like massive amounts of like shrapnel from all, from human bodies, bone fragments, from brick and stone, anything that, I mean, they do remark that it was like miraculous that he survived ah because he seems to always survive.
00:42:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah but yeah any yeah, but any of that flying projectile stuff, isn't kind of it's just going to bounce off the queue.
00:42:55
Keck
Right.
00:42:59
Keck
It's not going to get through.
00:42:59
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, not going to go through, yeah.
00:43:00
Keck
All right. But they do remark on like his like incredible survivability, like especially when he survived that like whole encounter.
00:43:07
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:43:09
Keck
And like they said, every they were like, my Lord, survived. Like they kind of say it like he had like and like a knack for constantly surviving when everyone else died.
00:43:15
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:43:21
Keck
I don't know if that's accurate not, but that's like what I got. Like that guy from Halo, the black guy who like always gets his whole entire unit killed and he's the only one that survives and somehow he got promoted.
00:43:35
Keck
Like, I don't know.
00:43:36
Kevin Dougherty
yeah but yeah uh so yeah where i don't remember where i left off but oh yeah yeah and the re rebellion as far as
00:43:37
Keck
I'm just saying anyway.
00:43:43
Keck
you were ah You were describing um Desmond ah using his shielding ability to protect him from the blast. He was the only one that survived that.
00:43:54
Keck
And you were explaining to me about the rebellion. Yeah.
00:43:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, they purposely meant that to fail just so they can you know kind of take power back for back to the sisterhood so that they can take control again because because the Emperor...
00:44:06
Keck
Yeah.
00:44:08
Kevin Dougherty
who is Which is funny because like the Emperor's name and the is Mark Strong and this is you know the actor pretty well.
00:44:14
Keck
Yeah.
00:44:15
Kevin Dougherty
And the whole time i just go I just kept going more like Mark Weak.
00:44:15
Keck
Yeah.
00:44:20
Keck
No. but
00:44:22
Kevin Dougherty
More... So yeah, I just thought that was a funny thing me because he always plays like a really absurd of character in this one.
00:44:24
Keck
no
00:44:29
Kevin Dougherty
He was really unsure with himself and, and what, what to do.
00:44:33
Keck
On ah Desmond's character, just going on, um now the wife of the leader of, ah I can't remember what the guy's name was.
00:44:47
Keck
ah
00:44:47
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. I don't remember which house they were the, the emperor's house.
00:44:51
Keck
Yeah, but you'll know. I mean, he's the main leader. ah Emperor, yeah, all right. They are Emperor, Emperor, whatever.
00:45:00
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, Mark mark Strong.
00:45:02
Keck
Mark Strong.
00:45:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:02
Keck
Yeah, his well I wanted to give the name of his character in the thing for people that don't know who Mark Strong is.
00:45:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:08
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:09
Keck
um You should know who Mark Strong is.
00:45:09
Kevin Dougherty
Emperor Gervato Carino. So I get this house Carino?
00:45:14
Keck
Carino. Okay.
00:45:14
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:15
Keck
But his wife... She seems to have like, um I don't know if she wants power and to bury her husband. Maybe you can speak more on this. Or maybe she just has like a totally like different thing. But she like befriends
Political Dynamics and Power Struggles
00:45:31
Keck
Desmond.
00:45:31
Keck
She frees him from prison, doesn't she?
00:45:34
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, she's the one that convinces her husband to like use him instead of the...
00:45:38
Keck
And she wants to kill the entire sisterhood. She calls them witches, which they kind of are manipulative witches.
00:45:41
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:46
Keck
So,
00:45:46
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah. They absolutely are, yeah.
00:45:48
Keck
and that and that led me to, like, not knowing what is good and evil, you know, like, who is right and wrong, you know?
00:45:49
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, what's great about this is Yeah, it's just that... Yeah, I was just about to say that.
00:45:56
Keck
You don't know.
00:45:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, there's what's great about the show is like you don't know who's the good guy, who's the guy.
00:45:58
Keck
Exactly.
00:46:02
Kevin Dougherty
They might play off to you as like, hey, these these are the good guys.
00:46:03
Keck
yeah
00:46:06
Kevin Dougherty
But then when you find out more about them and and from other people's perspective, you're like, wait, maybe they aren't the good guys.
00:46:12
Keck
oh
00:46:12
Kevin Dougherty
Wait, who are the good guys?
00:46:13
Keck
Yeah, that doesn't sound that – yeah, good guys don't generally do that.
00:46:14
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:46:16
Keck
So everything – yeah, they kept it like so – you know, everybody was like objectively everyone seemed to have some good intentions.
00:46:29
Keck
But they all seemed totally ruthless in what they were willing to do to obtain their goals.
00:46:36
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:46:37
Keck
And like, you know, means to an end and the end. um Yeah, there were a lot of very complex ideas. And the only thing I could think of, like, you know, like what I said, a lot less knowledge than you have, is that maybe for a lot of viewers, it was just too complex for them to grasp certain concepts and ideas.
00:47:01
Keck
Maybe they didn't really know, like the good guys, because, you know, that frustrates people. large portions of audience when there are not like clear, good and bad guys, when the lines aren't clearly drawn.
00:47:14
Keck
So that would be my only hypothesis that some people could not like, you know, grasp the concepts.
00:47:14
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:47:19
Keck
But um yeah, that was ah the one thing I wanted to ask you about was, um is she someone that's, ah well, I guess she wouldn't be in the movies because we're talking about thousands of years of time.
00:47:34
Keck
But I wanted to hear your opinion on like her character. and
00:47:40
Kevin Dougherty
I just think she thought maybe her husband was weak and that like she needed to, yeah, she needed to like, you know, take control and being more power for herself basically.
00:47:43
Keck
Well, he is weak.
00:47:49
Keck
So that's all it was? Okay.
00:47:52
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. I mean.
00:47:53
Keck
I wasn't sure if she had like deeper ambitions. from Well, I guess maybe in Season 2. Yeah. if there is a season two, maybe they will touch on like her and that, but like, I mean, cause her husband,
00:48:01
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:48:10
Keck
he gets completely broken at the end of that show. Like they basically tell him that he's like a fraud figurehead, that nothing he does matters. How they'll leave him in places like, you know, ah ah you know a fiery face or, you know, just like, you know, the the stamp on the envelope. But like that anything he wants to do really doesn't fucking matter.
00:48:35
Keck
And he's just like kind of like, ah, ah, but you know like me like He just gets broken, dude.
00:48:37
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. He constantly didn't know what he was doing. Yeah.
00:48:42
Keck
Yeah, he's a total puppet, a total tool.
00:48:42
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:48:45
Keck
And like ah she like goes, and well, wasn't her goal to get arrested?
00:48:52
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. yeah
00:48:53
Keck
Like that's what she, so she was just like, don't worry. i know exactly what to tell him. The truth.
00:49:00
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:49:01
Keck
I thought that was great when he gets like broken like that. But at the same time, I kind of felt like he didn't deserve it. Like he didn't seem like he was a bad guy. Like he seemed like he was like really just trying to hold things together and he just wasn't cut out for the job.
00:49:16
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:49:16
Keck
But that just goes to what we were talking about. There's really no good and bad, at least not yet, that we could see. Like if you were in this show, like I would not know who to – fight with or who, you know what mean?
00:49:31
Kevin Dougherty
You could align yourself with, yeah, yeah.
00:49:31
Keck
Like i would like, okay, I'm on my own.
00:49:34
Keck
I'm a bounty hunter. Like I'm both of that, you know?
00:49:35
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:39
Keck
So, um, yeah.
00:49:39
Kevin Dougherty
just Just hear from the money, and whoever pays the best.
00:49:43
Keck
I thought the show was great.
00:49:44
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I yeah that did too.
00:49:45
Keck
I mean, you,
00:49:47
Kevin Dougherty
But ah yeah, sir in season two was confirmed and supposed to start shooting this mall.
00:49:49
Keck
it's confirmed
00:49:50
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:49:51
Keck
what ah Is there anything else that stuck out to you in the show? I'm sure we're going to miss something because of all this. um We talked a little bit about the agony, the procedure, um going into because they go into like a spirit realm.
00:50:08
Keck
And, like, they have to, like, deal with, like, I guess, like, mothers and sisters that had perished and, like, that wanted to, like, drag them down and fuck with them. Like, because I guess, like, in order to be, like, one of the real anointed sisters, you have to go through the agony, right?
00:50:27
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:28
Keck
In order to, like, go to, like, one of the emperors, you had to be, like, fully...
00:50:34
Kevin Dougherty
Well, no, the ah the anybody, any one of the sisters can be the advisor for the emperor.
00:50:38
Keck
could go Okay, so you don't have to go through the agony to be...
00:50:40
Kevin Dougherty
It's just the leader. it's It's just the leader of the sisterhood needs to go through it.
00:50:46
Keck
Okay, I was not sure of that.
00:50:47
Kevin Dougherty
Or at least or at least like the leader of that sector. Because in ah and the Doom movies, there's like directorctor of ah there's a mother in that sector on Arrakis, and she has taken it.
00:50:52
Keck
Because I know a lot of... Okay.
00:51:00
Kevin Dougherty
But yeah, it's whatever i guess ah like sector you're in. So you're not the only one, because somebody else, i I believe, had taken it in the show as well.
00:51:04
Keck
Okay.
00:51:07
Kevin Dougherty
So it's not like a one-person-only thing.
00:51:08
Keck
Well, yeah. Well, Valana took it and ah tua took it and they're both at the same place. And at least one other of the sisters had taken it.
00:51:21
Kevin Dougherty
One of the ones that they were prepping to be a leader, she had taken she was the one that almost died, and they had to save her with the machines and stuff.
00:51:21
Keck
Yeah.
00:51:28
Keck
Yeah. Well, didn't she technically die because she's possessed by someone else?
00:51:37
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, when you...
00:51:37
Keck
Like, do we know if she's actually, like, if the actual person is still in there?
00:51:42
Kevin Dougherty
She's still in there somewhere.
00:51:44
Keck
Okay, she's still in there.
00:51:44
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, but she... you
00:51:45
Keck
So so she's going through, like, ah being John Malkovich, like, how John Cusack got, like, isolated, like, in there.
00:51:52
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:51:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:51:53
Keck
So, like, she's in there and can see what's happening, but, like, she just can't do shit about it.
00:51:57
Kevin Dougherty
She can't control it right now. Cause like, yeah, cause she's not powerful enough that when she takes that, the other sisters, you know, gets all their memories and, and through the past and stuff. So like, they can kind of take over your body if their memory is stronger.
00:52:11
Kevin Dougherty
And like, she does like a couple different ones will come to focus and you can kind of it's kind of like, so she's still there. She's kind of summoning these other um memories to kind of take control as well she was like i want to speak to so and so and like that person would like come forward but then like they can overbear it yeah yeah
00:52:23
Keck
Yeah, that was one thing I wasn't totally certain on.
00:52:29
Keck
Yeah, no, i get yeah I get that. She was like a conduit. Again, this is like another thing that like made me think of the Witcher. The conduits, like the sorceresses, how they go into that pool and they turn into like eels and stuff like that.
00:52:38
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:52:43
Keck
yeah so i don't know i was I don't know why I was thinking a lot about like um the Witcher and Mass Effect again, ah going back to that. ah if you're familiar with the whole series that they have, the legendary edition, especially Mass Effect 3, you deal with the sandworm at the end.
00:53:02
Keck
coming out and fucking like you need that to defeat the thinking machine, the Reapers.
00:53:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:53:07
Keck
Like you take down the Reaper with the... So yeah, I just thought like there was a lot of shit. I was like, shit, that's right out of Mass Effect. But more to the point, it's probably Mass Effect took that shit from Dune because Dune was like, yeah.
00:53:20
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, yeah. was just about to say, when you watch Dune, you start to realize how much sci-fi over the ah you got influenced over
00:53:27
Keck
Influenced, yeah. Yeah.
Dune's Sci-Fi Legacy and Recommendations
00:53:30
Keck
Yeah.
00:53:30
Kevin Dougherty
generations.
00:53:30
Kevin Dougherty
Because this is ah this book was made, what, 60s, I think? Something like that? Maybe earlier?
00:53:35
Keck
it it was The book was published that long ago?
00:53:39
Kevin Dougherty
I want to say something like that. don't remember what.
00:53:43
Keck
Well, by all means, look it up on your own. But yeah, I mean, it gave me the idea, like, you know, yeah, a lot of stuff has probably been influenced by the Dune universe.
00:53:45
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:53
Keck
I mean, it's brilliant.
00:53:53
Kevin Dougherty
1965. Yeah.
00:53:56
Keck
1965, wow.
00:53:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah,
00:53:57
Keck
And the first movie was, like, in the early eighty s right? Yeah.
00:54:01
Kevin Dougherty
think it was like...
00:54:01
Keck
It wasn't like it was like right around like 81, 82, something like that.
00:54:05
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, something like that.
00:54:06
Keck
um And yeah, like I said, I thought that for the time that movie had like really good special effects. But I don't really have much more to say on Dune. Doc, do you have anything that we didn't touch on you want to discuss or any final thoughts?
00:54:23
Kevin Dougherty
ah No, so my final thoughts would be if you want to really good breakdown, if you go to ah YouTube and watch a Screen Crush's Ryan Aries does a really good breakdown of Dune Prophecy, and will probably explain it a lot better than I can.
00:54:37
Keck
Yeah.
00:54:38
Kevin Dougherty
And yeah and with with visuals, references as well.
00:54:40
Keck
I would recommend watching first and watching that breakdown.
00:54:43
Kevin Dougherty
Well, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
00:54:46
Keck
Like, you know, ah unless you, yeah, because I mean, otherwise, well, obviously, but like if you're somebody that goes in, I guess, and like maybe, i don't know, if you're like three episodes in or something, you're like, I don't want to watch this anymore because I have no idea what the fuck's going on.
00:54:48
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, no, no, no.
00:55:02
Keck
Maybe consider checking out a breakdown before, you know, give up on
00:55:05
Kevin Dougherty
Of each episode, yeah, that's not a bad idea, because then he'll he'll get into deeper ah you know meaning and stuff.
00:55:09
Keck
Yeah.
00:55:11
Kevin Dougherty
I just watched like a it was like a full recap one that he had done on the whole thing. And now and yeah, obviously obviously watch the show first.
00:55:18
Keck
And what is his name? He has a YouTube channel, and what is his name?
00:55:23
Kevin Dougherty
It's Screen Crush.
00:55:24
Keck
Screen Crush.
00:55:24
Kevin Dougherty
And yeah, if you just look up Screen Crush Dune Prophecy, it'll come up.
00:55:25
Keck
Screen Prophecy, you've got it.
00:55:29
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, he's he does pretty much all the videos on there.
00:55:31
Keck
Oh, cool, cool, cool.
00:55:32
Kevin Dougherty
So yeah, uh...
00:55:33
Keck
So you have multiple – please, before like commenting on boards or disliking or anything like that, make sure you like you know watch a breakdown or you know just listen to some material or watch the other movies or – You know something, because for somebody knows very well about Dune, I found this series very entertaining. I'm really looking forward to Season 2.
00:55:58
Keck
And ah the only thing i would say would have been my major dislike, my final thoughts... would be that there was only six episodes. I would have liked to see at least eight.
00:56:09
Keck
And I heard that there was some, like, issue, and there were going to be eight episodes at first, but I couldn't find, like, substantiated source material.
00:56:20
Keck
So for now, you have to take that as a rumor, um because I wasn't able to lock it in.
00:56:23
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. I appreciated six episodes. I thought six episodes kept the story nice and tight without doing too many sidebar so...
00:56:32
Keck
I would have liked to seen a little bit more. I really think with all the complex plot points that we just laid out and stuff they couldn't even touch on in, I really think, an extra, I mean, i think six episodes this week, but hey, like, that's the only thing I really didn't like. Otherwise, like I said, I'm looking forward to season two, and if anybody watched this and didn't like it, i would definitely,
00:56:57
Keck
even recommend maybe giving it a second watch. Um, you know, especially if you like hear a breakdown or listen to this conversation between me and doc, and maybe like something became clear to you that was cloudy at first.
00:57:10
Keck
Like, uh, I would really advise, um, you know, a second watch, especially now that you confirm that there is going to be a season two. And hopefully season two will be, you know, like eight episodes and they'll really get into the nitty gritty of it.
00:57:19
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:57:27
Keck
So.
00:57:28
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and I believe Dennis Villvenu, who directed...
00:57:28
Keck
and
00:57:34
Keck
I thought you were going to say Dennis Hopper.
00:57:34
Kevin Dougherty
No, no, no.
00:57:35
Keck
i was going be like dude, Dennis Hopper is not available.
00:57:38
Kevin Dougherty
No, the guy who directed ah Dune Part 1 and 2, he should be ah releasing Dune Messiah, his next one, next year, I believe, as well.
00:57:47
Keck
Oh, cool.
00:57:47
Kevin Dougherty
ah think it's ah So we could be getting Dune Prophecy Season 2 and a third Dune movie.
00:57:50
Keck
A third dude. Oh, shit. That would be...
00:57:54
Kevin Dougherty
Which he said was where he wanted to end it, because it's a got a good ending to it, and he thought after that, the books kind of get too ridiculous, and he was like, if somebody else wants to do it, they can't He was like, I'm only doing these.
00:57:54
Keck
that would
00:58:07
Kevin Dougherty
And like I'm sure they will part like ah Warner Brothers will probably end up getting somebody to do it because I'm sure this next one is going to be really successful.
00:58:16
Keck
If it just won awards and it's making money and, yeah, I mean, if it – hey, man, you want to be sure you just go to, like, you know, the executives at Paramount and you just explain to them how you're going to make them money and, like, you know – Dune has proven that.
00:58:34
Keck
So, I mean, who knows? There might be a Dune part four. I mean, there's so many storylines. There's so much. You said it's one book covered two movies, but you kind of described it as like that book could be much further allowed, like Game of Thrones, like the first Game of Thrones book.
00:58:40
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:58:53
Keck
You could make five seasons just on that fucking book. So I've never read Dune, but if the audio book is as cool as you say, I think I might check it out. um So I think that pretty much wraps
Tribute to Gene Hackman
00:59:06
Keck
up Dune. um There was just one other thing before we go that um I wanted to mention the beginning of the cast, but um one of my favorite actors in history – died like a really fucking terrible death along with his wife in Gene Hackman.
00:59:26
Keck
And I just wanted to mention it because I love that man.
00:59:27
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, yes. yeah
00:59:31
Keck
And the cause of his death was initially ruled suspicious. And yeah, I really wish somebody had just come in and shot him because ah they released two days ago that like his wife had died and he was suffering like Alzheimer's and dementia. So he wasn't with it.
00:59:53
Keck
And they now say that he was like alive, like in the house with his dead wife for days.
01:00:01
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I did read that.
01:00:01
Keck
And he died because... He wasn't able to take care of himself. He wasn't able to get water or food. and
01:00:11
Keck
No one deserves to die that way and certainly not a class actor like Gene Hackman, who is a good guy and a good person. And don't mean to get emotional, but like I said, he was one of my favorite actors, maybe just behind like Paul Newman.
01:00:27
Keck
And he was a great guy who loved to act and loved the theater. ah a guy who ah initially just wanted to do comedy And he became such a serious actor. And um I just ah really wish that um he had met another end. I know he was 95 years But...
01:00:53
Keck
but Fuck. I don't have anything more to say. i just wanted to remember Gene Hackman because he was a really great guy and a really brilliant performer that will be missed.
01:01:06
Keck
I don't know if you have anything to add.
01:01:08
Kevin Dougherty
No, I definitely agree with that. my My roommate was watching a Runaway Jury the other day because it had popped up and i was like, oh, classic.
01:01:14
Keck
Yeah.
01:01:17
Kevin Dougherty
I was like, are you just on a hackman kick right now?
01:01:17
Keck
Yeah.
01:01:19
Kevin Dougherty
And like, yeah, it's definitely one of those things.
01:01:23
Keck
I mean, his role and in Unforgiven, where he won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor, um there was an interview with Clint Eastwood and he was just talking about how close he had to come to recasting Little Bill Daggett because Gene Hackman had said, look, I don't want to do violent parts anymore.
01:01:24
Kevin Dougherty
It's terrible. Yeah.
01:01:46
Keck
Like, I don't like the violence anymore. And like Clint Eastwood said, like, look, I'm really looking at this part. I think we can really take a stand towards violence. And, um, I really want you to be a part it. And he initially convinced him and thank God that he did. I can't imagine seeing that movie without Gene Hackman.
01:02:07
Kevin Dougherty
yeah so many great yeah yeah way to end this on a downer
01:02:08
Keck
Um, so anyway, this was pretty fucking devastating to me, as you can probably tell. ah Um, Yeah, it's just, yeah, but I mean, I needed to mention this and, you know, dude, he's like one of the best actors of all time.
01:02:26
Kevin Dougherty
yeah i agree
01:02:26
Keck
And yeah, it's just totally fucked that it went this way. I really wish somebody had gone into his house and he was of sound mind and body and they just shot him or something like that because they're like Gene Hackman.
01:02:41
Keck
You're just too good to be alive anymore. Something like that.
01:02:44
Kevin Dougherty
That's just it.
01:02:44
Keck
Anything of what happened to him would have been my preference.
01:02:45
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
01:02:50
Keck
That's just fucking awful. So anyway, but that even goes to show like he was so private that they didn't even have like a staff. that would go and check in on them. Him and his wife were extremely private people.
01:03:05
Keck
And, you know, he said he loved acting, but he hated fame. He did not like it that everybody recognized him. He couldn't go to the fucking grocery store anymore. You know, think about that.
01:03:15
Keck
Like, you know, it's cool.
01:03:16
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
01:03:17
Keck
You know I'm an actor. I'm making a lot of money. I'm never going to have to worry about money again. but And the trade-off is everybody's gonna know me wherever the fuck I go, and my life is going to be forever permanently altered.
01:03:32
Keck
So anyway, that's all I have to say on that.
01:03:34
Kevin Dougherty
yeah ah
01:03:36
Keck
Doc, any final words of wisdom for this cast?
01:03:41
Kevin Dougherty
no that's that's yeah yeah
01:03:42
Keck
All right. Thank you for joining us. And ah the next cast, we're going to be talking about, well, there's a few different topics, so I'm not going to spoil it, but it will probably be Silo, unless Doc is still scared to do that.
01:04:01
Kevin Dougherty
don't you're talking about. I just want get through a dude first.
01:04:03
Keck
I know. i'm fucked I'm fucking with you. I don't want to run this on anymore. Guys, thank you for joining us. And I hope everybody is doing well out there. I hope 2025 is treating you better than it's treating my mental health.
01:04:19
Keck
So everybody take care. Thanks.
01:04:22
Kevin Dougherty
Thanks. Peace.