Transcript
Kevin Dougherty: all right welcome back to fright central i'm doc back here again as always with keck uh tonight we're going to talk about dune prophecy yeah i that hasn't gone a while the last couple times
Keck: Thanks for not asking how I'm doing. ah ah yeah It never it never never goes well. Yeah, ah well, before we get into the main topic, Doom Prophecy, I just wanted to give some news on Crystal Lake, and there is no news.
Keck: Doc, do you have anything you'd like to discuss before getting into Doom? Any news?
Kevin Dougherty: Well, the yeah, the Academy Awards were last weekend, ah believe.
Keck: Oh, God, I thought we weren't going to do this. Okay, let's get it.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, it's only I'm only mentioning the ones that are related to
Keck: True that.
Kevin Dougherty: hard
Keck: True that.
Kevin Dougherty: So, yeah.
Keck: Excuse me. i beg your pardon. My fault.
Kevin Dougherty: ah The Substance won Best Makeup and Hairstyling. So... ah to
Keck: oh Yeah. just real quick ah the substance i had told you i viewed nurses varattu with my mother over the weekend i put the substance on there and told her it was a romantic comedyy with demi more
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: and said i really think you'll like it and she was like oh that sounds great and i was like ya should watch you with tom
Keck: It starts off with Demi Moore. And she loves Dennis Quaid. So I was like, oh, God. i was like, this is Dennis Quaid's best character since Doc Holliday. And she's like, oh, yeah, I heard it was good. And I'm like, oh, it's really good. was like, you know, but, you know, it might make you cry. You know, it's a real tearjerker. And she's like oh, yeah, I'm going to check that out. I forgot to mention it to you. I think it's going to be great.
Keck: Oh, God. Will she get the bend?
Kevin Dougherty: read
Keck: No way.
Kevin Dougherty: ah how how far do you think she'll get I mean you get you definitely get to the point where she meets the guy on the street and then you could go you could be like okay this is a uh
Keck: The furthest I think she'll get is when Margaret Qualley crawls out of Demi Moore's back. I think if she has not like lost it by then, like because up until that point, you know it's kind of like ah you know it's the whole movie is like a feminist thing. So you have that vibe of like you know a woman fighting to get through these hard times and struggling to stay relevant.
Keck: So she could. But I think after that rips out, I give it if she doesn't like falter by then – She's either going to be done in five minutes or she's going to get through the entire movie and tell me like, yo, ah I am now into like sci-fi horror.
Keck: Yeah. but but That ain't going to happen. Although, my mom does watch a lot of horror.
Kevin Dougherty: You got any more like that, Brandon?
Keck: She does. like She likes horror mysteries, especially. like When I came over the other day, she was watching Jack Reacher at like full volume. and I know that's not a horror movie, but that's also something you don't expect your 73-year-old mother to be watching.
Keck: you know so
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Anyway, but I just thought that was...
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, he's a huge dude.
Keck: Something funny. Yeah, I just wanted to share that. I thought that would be something funny. I can't.
Kevin Dougherty: She's going
Keck: I really can't wait. I was hoping she would watch it tonight and then yell at me tomorrow. ah But we'll see.
Kevin Dougherty: to call you in the middle of the cast.
Keck: Anyway.
Kevin Dougherty: Brandon, what the hell did I just watch?
Keck: yeah Yeah, like what? the notch There's no way she'll get through the whole thing. Half would be like my absolute, like if I had like a realistic expectation, I would say maybe half of the movie before she flips.
Keck: But I doubt it would get that far.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Anyway, ah yeah, so the substance cleaned up at the Oscars.
Kevin Dougherty: No, they won one Oscar.
Keck: One Oscar. Well, I mean, for a horror movie, I mean, that's that's cleaning up. ah
Kevin Dougherty: I guess.
Keck: and So anyway, what what else had success?
Kevin Dougherty: Well, Sub-Subs won Best to Makeup and Hairstyle, and Dune Part II won Best Sound and Best Visual Effects.
Keck: Oh, no shit.
Kevin Dougherty: So, I mean, I think it might have... I mean, the fact that that didn't win...
Keck: To my understanding, ah the second one was ah much better received than the first one, although both of them were well received. Is that your opinion as well?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I don't remember what the first Dune, if that one had won any awards or not. I'm not going to go back and look at this point, but...
Keck: Yeah, no, no.
Kevin Dougherty: ah
Keck: It's not really. it doesn't It's not a big deal. um But, yeah. i mean well I mean, Dune's not really like your classical horror movie. It's more like sci-fi, right?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, it's it's definitely real heavy sci-fi, but I feel like there's a lot of horror elements to it with the giant sandworms and fear is the mind killer and shit.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Not as much as Raised by Wolves. Raised by Wolves, I mean, it it really goes off the rail, but it has all this, like, well, I don't know why there was a serpent in it, but there was. And, um you know, but I got, like, a lot of, like, I mean, I did think Raised by Wolves was, like, brilliant sci-fi. And I guess it was... um Well, let's get into prophecy before I start naming actors and go way out.
Keck: We're still in news. But anyway, anything else at the Oscars that was like noteworthy?
Kevin Dougherty: no those those were the only two worth mentioning and uh and dune is dune winning shit was relevant to doing the tv series so i have any other news beyond that
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Well, one thing is before well getting into Dune Prophecy, ah I noticed it had really mixed reviews. And ah i don't understand the reception because I thought it was quality. And I never saw, um I believe I did watch the first Dune reboot.
Keck: But I really don't have any memory of it. I did not see the second Dune, despite you having encouraged me to do so. And obviously it did well at the Oscars, so i mean I'm sure it's a good flick.
Keck: What I really remember is Kyle MacLachlan and the first Dune movie. And I remember thinking that that was like ahead of its time in terms of the effects they use. I remember being like, I think that and Tron came out within a few years of one another, like the two original. And I remember thinking like that Dune just kicked the fucking shit out of Tron in terms of special effects. Yeah.
Keck: But anyway, getting into Dune Prophecy, since you've seen the first two movies, ah how do you think the series lives up to the films?
Kevin Dougherty: i think I think it's a great setup. I mean, it the ah series takes place like 10,000 years before the ah movie.
Keck: Oh, really?
Kevin Dougherty: So, yeah.
Keck: Was it that was it that far? ah Did they mention that in like the opening credits? like Did they give you a timeline? I don't remember.
Kevin Dougherty: ah In Dune Prophecy, yes, I i believe they said it's...
Keck: They do give, okay.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. So it takes place...
Keck: So you have like the idea of like where it is in the Dune universe.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, and it's not that long after the ah they've you know fought against you know the AI and robots and they band all ah they've banned all you know um advanced technology.
Keck: yeah
Keck: What they call them? Thinking machines is what they – I mean it's kind of like a warning for us.
Kevin Dougherty: Thinking machines, yes.
Keck: Well, I mean mad shit's been a warning for us against AI. But yeah, we're kind of on a roller coaster that has no end and there's no stopping in sight.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, every sci-fi movie.
Keck: So fuck. I just hope I'm dead before Skynet goes live.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: you
Kevin Dougherty: And this was a kind of based off of like um not the original Frank Herbert books, but one of the later ones that his son wrote, um ah Sisterhood of the Dune.
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, there's definitely ah some changes that were made. I've never even got that far. I've only ever read the first book. So I can tell you, i mean, here it gets real wild after the third one anyway, but...
Kevin Dougherty: ah
Keck: Is the sisterhood prominently featured in the films as like a major faction?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yes, yes.
Keck: Okay. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: the the It's the Bene Gesseric. are as This is kind of like the origins of that, where they're all, ah each of them are like kind of truth sayers.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: So they kind of align themselves with ah higher ups of like different, you know, major houses, like in in Game of Thrones, you know?
Keck: Yeah. Now, a truesayer, they're able to detect lies or you know, deception, but they also kind of act as, i guess they interpret like what another leader or, you know, another huge faction is saying.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: And they kind of advise, like, they're sort of like, um you know, how the sorceresses in the Witcher were kind of sent to advise kings.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: It's pretty much the same thing.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Keck: um Only, i guess, in The Witcher, those women had a lot more power.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: People
Kevin Dougherty: Well, I mean, in a sense, the sisterhood really have all the power because they're the ones that ah you know align themselves with different houses and doing shit.
Keck: are doing shady genetic experiments.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Keck: I didn't see that coming. ah Do you want to like maybe discuss it? Is that like anything that's featured in the films before? Because to me, the genetic creation of Kings just kind of seemed like a little bit like out there compared to like the rest of the story.
Keck: um But I mean, I still thought it was cool.
Kevin Dougherty: No, that that's whats that's what it's all about.
Keck: Always been.
Kevin Dougherty: It's all about, yeah.
Keck: It's always been. to All right. Yeah, I don't bring remember that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah their whole Yeah, their whole deal is trying to create, you know, they to and they're eventually, want they want to create, the you know, this ultimate, you know, the the the Messiah.
Keck: like ah gaca like a like a Gattaca like scenario for the philosopher king so that they don't like you know ah to basically make sure you're not going to anoint a Targaryen to your you know what I mean like you're going to have somebody of like a level head
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah and it's not necessarily yet like Yeah, and it's not necessarily like messing with like DNA in itself and like making this person in a lab. it's all about like
Keck: mental stability
Kevin Dougherty: b linking It's all about linking different families together and which ones would mash up and how far down the line this can go to to create the...
Keck: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: you know, the Messiah or whatever, and who may or may not be Paul Atreides.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Is it Paul Atreides or is it his son or is it the the other? So it's, gonna and they kind of go out and they go out into these different systems and they start planting the seed of this prophecy.
Kevin Dougherty: And that's how you get like the, the Fremen on, ah on Arrakis, you know?
Keck: But only the sisters are aware of this, correct? Because that that they obviously don't know that they're being created in a lab, right?
Kevin Dougherty: Yes. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, they're not being created in lab. It's being...
Keck: But they're being fucked with. Like, they are being manipulated, like, completely manipulated entire time.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yeah oh you mean do the do the the heads of these houses know that?
Keck: Like, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: No, they have no idea. like they Yeah. they
Keck: that's what That's what I meant.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yeah, they kind of manipulate the different people in their and their sisterhood and stuff to kind of like put people in positions of of power and to get people to to you know to mate pretty much and
Keck: That's what I was trying to say.
Kevin Dougherty: and uh and proceed the front line
Keck: Yeah. And they believe that this will eventually grant them the Messiah. And i mean, one of the themes I heard, though, was like creating like level headed leaders that would, you know, make wise decisions while following the sisterhood.
Keck: And ah it was in their interest to have like a galactic peace as well. Like, you know, level headed individuals. Yeah. And that would eventually bring on like the discovery of their Messiah or, you know, am I in the right?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah pretty much
Kevin Dougherty: yeah good Yeah, pretty much.
Keck: but Is that?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Who they can then put on the ah throne as like you know the the leader and stuff.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: so yeah And sometimes you might have
Keck: And that would like usher in like a golden age, like in their prophecies. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: to...
Keck: Got you.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, pretty much. yeah and um But like the the prophecies are all... they' It's not like you know something like that that gets handed down to them through God or something.
Keck: They didn't see it on like a cave painting.
Kevin Dougherty: It's it
Keck: There was no Sanskrit or like drawings.
Kevin Dougherty: and it it's straight up a prophecy of their own making. They're like, Hey, one day there's going to be this Messiah that comes to save us all. And like, they're the ones manipulating to that path.
Kevin Dougherty: You know what mean?
Keck: And they also create the entire story.
Kevin Dougherty: So.
Keck: So they're like the biblical writers and they're trying to like make their own made up bullshit come to pass.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but I mean, they do have, like, you know, they they do have the true saying ability, and then you actually see it in the show the first time um one of the sisters is able to use the what they call the voice.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: It's kind of like the Force in Star Wars. I mean, the the Star Wars is kind of a complete ripoff of Dune, but...
Keck: yeah
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: among other things, but it's it's just an easy way to compare it, where they use this voice where it's like a different tone. It can control other people into doing things for them. And that's like the first time you see that ah um is ah happens in the in this show. I mean, you see it happen in the movies as well, but I mean, like like the sisterhood has already been like established for a number of years at this point.
Kevin Dougherty: And it's kind of these two sisters who are the Harkonian who in the movies are like the, the bad guys. Uh, but ah the, Paul Atreides is actually the, you know, uh, this mother was like part, uh, Harkonnen and stuff. So it all kind of links, links back together, about putting these different houses together.
Kevin Dougherty: ah so like in the, in the movie, you're kind of like, oh, the Harkonnens are the bad guys. and the tradies are the good guys, but in in reality, it's all manipulated, you know, from other houses and stuff like that.
Kevin Dougherty: So, uh,
Keck: And when you talk about the voice, um is that featured in the films?
Kevin Dougherty: yes, yes.
Keck: I did not know that. Okay, because I thought that was something, that's something, a Sister, what was her name, Vanya?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Uh, think so. Uh, if you want to reference, yeah, when, uh, yeah.
Keck: emily Emily Watson's character. She's the one that like cultivates it. Right. She talks about, she's like, this is something that I've been honing and I'm willing to share this with you.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But like the one check who was set to take over after the death of like, you know, their other like matriarch, like she wasn't for it. And so she like makes her like, yeah, slit her own throat.
Keck: Right. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Then she comes back in spirit. Yeah, that is very Star Wars, like coming back from the nether regions. But although I don't know about Star Wars, like ghosts, like ever possessing someone's body.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: So I mean, but.
Kevin Dougherty: no yeah Yeah, they have ah well, um to go back to the David Lynch film you know, when like saying his name is like the is a voice to to say to kill ah but they're yeah like he's using the voice in that movie as well so like that's that's the way to describe it and that's how they kind of keep them still and stuff, you know stop people from doing anything yeah
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah. And you basically just manipulate them to do anything. You say, you know, slit your throat or, you know, ah cut your nuts off or, you know, whatever.
Kevin Dougherty: and Yeah, yeah.
Keck: You're good.
Kevin Dougherty: Or kill somebody else.
Keck: You.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah, ah I mean, you would need, like, extremely strong will to be able to, you know, ah avoid that, to alleviate them from being able to control you.
Keck: Now, ah Travis Fimmel, ah who played Desmond Hart, I don't know if he's even in the first episode. i could be wrong. Doesn't he come in in the second episode?
Kevin Dougherty: I think he's either end of the first or second episode, I believe, yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: He's credited – IMDb only credits him for five episodes, so I think it's not until episode two that he comes in.
Keck: But um one thing I liked really cool was when they introduced his character. When you see um the one king, um is king correct?
Kevin Dougherty: Mark Strong.
Keck: Yeah. Is King correct? Is that what they called them? They were kings, right?
Kevin Dougherty: think I think it's Emperor.
Keck: Or were they Roars, Emperor? Well, whatever.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: King, Emperor.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: ah He watches the video of the guy who ah travels Phil's character, Desmond Hart. Apparently, like, his entire unit got, like, cut to pieces on this planet, and somehow he gets swallowed by a giant sandworm and, like, you know, survives that because, like, there's a weird machine.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Maybe you could talk more about it. Because I was just like, what the fuck is going on? And like, but the scene I really liked was when ah that one Emperor King was like watching like the footage of him getting swallowed by the sandworm. And like he knew he was fucked. So he kind of like drops to his knees and puts his hand out like, you know, totally surrendering. Like, I know I'm done.
Keck: And I just, like, he watches that and the expression on his face after he sees him get eaten by the sandworm is just priceless. Because it's literally, like, you would think, like, what the fuck?
Keck: Like, how the fuck did he survive that?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yeah, as soon as that actor shows up in this, I'm like, oh, this guy's going to real scumbag, isn't he?
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Because I just saw him in Raised by Wolves was the last thing, and I hated the character that, i'm like, I'm going to hate him in this.
Keck: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude, I thought his character in that was great. He was totally crazed out of his mind, which he pretty much is in everything I've seen.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Pretty it.
Keck: Like in Vikings, like he has like this great speech when he's like finally being put to death ah because he plays like loosely a character that did really exist.
Keck: And like he's just totally crazed in that. And he was totally crazed and raised by wolves and he's Totally fucking crazy.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So everything everything i've seen him in...
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: Well, he's kind of, I guess Vikings would be like his best mentally stable character would be in Vikings. I guess he's sort of playing like a period piece where he's like based on like a character that existed. And they probably said like, yo, man, cool like you take your meds during the filming of this. And like, then you could go back off them again.
Keck: But yeah, he's crazed in everything he's in. I love it.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, ah well, ah he was yeah so he was swallowed by the sandworm, and then it we still we'll probably get into it in the next season, but ah it seems he was saved by like some androids or AI or something, a thinking machine.
Keck: That's not what I would call it. You would say that that was saved because I got the ah i got the inference from watching the show that the sister said that he was being used and manipulated.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, well, I mean, but he was saved by them.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Like, he didn't he didn't die.
Keck: Oh, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: like Yeah, yeah.
Keck: You mean it saved in the sense that they didn't...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, because they then they put they like this virus in him, you know, that feeds on fear.
Keck: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And that was, like, created by the machines. But, you know, since it was coming from him, he wasn't really, you know, affected as well. I mean, you could see, like, sometimes his skin would start burning and stuff like that. But this is kind of...
Keck: Oh, yeah. he had the ah He got the ability to like burn people alive from like the inside out, right?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, it was pretty much, yeah, the the virus ah would escape. And and would and that's this is why, like, all the people, all the sisterhoods where were seeing this, like, vision of, like, the blue eye.
Kevin Dougherty: or like, they were seeing seeing the blue eyes or the man. And, like, ah we don't know what the man is yet that was in the shadows. But the blue eyes was, like, we find out was, like, the thinking machine that saved them. But, yeah, this this is kind of the whole start of the controlling your fear And can fear is the mind killer.
Kevin Dougherty: you know Put your hand in the box. If you can conquer fear, then you can conquer anything. This is kind of the origins of the whole ah of the Bene Gesseric being able to control their fears and stuff. Because by the end of that, they've either all controlled their fear or they've all been slaughtered by the takeover of Tullia and her sister, Valiya.
Kevin Dougherty: And, uh, and it's, yeah. So I thought that was really nice, uh, origin story for that, for that ability as well in this, uh, in the show.
Keck: Yeah, yeah. and Anyone that's familiar with the um Mass Effect video games, they um the sci-fi, like, Space Odyssey thing with, like, the destruction of the universe by the Reapers,
Keck: ah you will I would think that you would be really into Dune prophecy because there's a lot of like very similar themes with what you just said about controlling your fear and about like you know these sentient machines that like learn to think like way better than they were. Well, I mean, it's not that's not really what the Reapers were, but well...
Keck: I don't know. If you are into Mass Effect, like watch Doom Prophecy and see what you think because I think you'll like it. There's some common shared themes.
Keck: um But yeah, I mean, they're different stories like completely, but there's a lot of like common themes with like the thinking machines. it's It's pretty fucking cool. i mean And that that's the thing i wanted to ask you before going too much more in this.
Keck: What are your feelings about like what I would call rather poor reception to the Dune Prophecy television series on HBO compared to the massive success that the films seem to have had?
Kevin Dougherty: I don't know. I mean, it does it does still have a 7.3 on IMDb. I haven't really read any i haven't read any reviews outside of that.
Keck: That's piss poor. I mean, compared compared to big budget, like ah stuff that's released by HBO, like a 7.3 is considered to be a fail. I mean, that's really low on the spectrum. And I was looking at the films and I think both films were incredibly well received.
Keck: So I was just curious as to, do you have any like ideas as to why the series would have had like a lesser appeal? Because I would think that this would like boost the series.
Keck: People would be pumped from watching the films, or I guess they watched the series and just thought it felt completely flat. Like, because from what you're telling me is that this series equates almost all of the elements and that made the film successful.
Keck: And so I guess I'm trying to wonder what the fuck happened in the kind of words.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, like I said, I didn't read any reviews, so I don't know about any of this this other discourse or anything like that.
Keck: Yeah, I did. i did ah go into some forums on Reddit. I went into the IMDB forums and ah a lot of the discussions actually just got off the handles and people just start calling each other names, like trolling, like bullshit.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But like you could tell people were really passionate about the topic or like to send it into angry conversations.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, it could either be ah could either be people who hadn't seen the movies and were trying to watch this and had no idea what was going on.
Keck: I was just wondering if you knew anything about that.
Keck: but Yeah, possible.
Kevin Dougherty: ah could be It could be people that had like you know read the books and were super excited about like you know what they were going to do.
Keck: Well, that's a common cause of everything, but then the movies wouldn't have been well-received.
Kevin Dougherty: and then and
Keck: You know, if everybody goes by the books.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, not necessarily because the movie the two movies are really close to the book.
Keck: Are they?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, they're they've only looked
Keck: Because I never read the literature at all. I've never read any deeper.
Kevin Dougherty: I listened to the audiobook like last August. so last September, August.
Keck: Was it good?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, it was good. The audiobook is really well done, too.
Keck: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: um And yeah, there was only maybe few slight changes and and mostly just some things like left out that they're going to save for the next book because it was only like... You know, like the Spacing Guild only shows up for like a minute or two and it was kind of like... And in the first movie, I think it's like a...
Kevin Dougherty: what was it It was like a giant weird brain whale type thing in a tube. I'm not sure how to describe it.
Keck: Oh, I remember that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. And it only shows up shortly. So I think they decided to like, well, since it's only no, cause it's in the, it's in the original.
Keck: fuck that I didn't see the second movie, but I remember what you're talking about. Original?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Okay, I was going to say, how the fuck would I have known that?
Kevin Dougherty: Cause the two, the two, movies the two most recent do movies are ah just cover one book.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, so i think they just decided to leave the ah the Spacing Guild, like the look of it, out to save it for the next movie, is my guess.
Keck: Okay.
Keck: So your hypothesis is...
Kevin Dougherty: But...
Keck: Probably like people were like just being overly critical of the series because it didn't touch on certain points that they felt or they thought that the movies, while being very close to the book, maybe the series like ventured a little too off topic or am I misconstruing you?
Kevin Dougherty: I don't know. i ah Like I said, I didn't read anybody's ah thoughts on it, so I don't know why why people are upset.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: I really liked the show. I thought it was really well done.
Keck: I did too. I did too.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: And I don't remember the first reboot. Like I said, I never saw the second. And the first original one, i have not seen in at least 15 years. So that is hazy to say the least.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But I really liked the series, and I didn't, like, check IMDb or check anybody's opinion on anything until I had finished the series.
Kevin Dougherty: Thank you.
Keck: So, like, I went – because if I had gone into it after reading that, would have, like, immediately – doomed it So like I've been trying to like actively avoid like reception and you know get a better opinion of myself.
Keck: Because even if um like I see something that I want to see and it's been shit on, I'll still generally watch it. But... The plague, the seed of doubt has been dropped in my mind and you're just not getting a fresh perspective.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
Keck: So I was just curious if you had any insight into that. You really don't know. You think that this was consistent with the films.
Kevin Dougherty: I've been avoiding, like, I'm the same but same i'm same with you recently, like but I don't even wait until after to see what everyone else is thinking. I just watch it, and then if I like it, I fucking like it.
Kevin Dougherty: like If somebody else doesn't fucking like it, I don't really give a shit if you don't.
Keck: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: like Everybody has their own different opinion on shit, so it's like, it's like I'm not going to let other people
Keck: Oh, yeah. yeah I don't care whether i like something someone else doesn't like. I'm just trying to like understand like why you know this seems...
Keck: You're telling me that like you thought that this a show captured and encapsulated everything that was in the movies pretty well, right?
Keck: You thought it...
Kevin Dougherty: yeah i mean i mean it' definitely I mean, it definitely helps if you've seen the movies to catch a lot of the references in the show.
Keck: Obviously, they had to leave some shit out, but...
Kevin Dougherty: But I mean, I think you can go into this show without having seen the movies like like you did.
Keck: Yeah, I mean, that's that's for me. And the thing is, if you go into the show and you're aware that there's already two films and you don't watch those films and you go into the show and you don't know what the fuck is going on, that's your fault.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I mean, they kind of ah they do explain enough in the show that like that could set you up.
Keck: is So...
Keck: That's what I thought.
Kevin Dougherty: like you could now so i I think you, after watching the show, you can go into the movies and get a better understanding of certain things in the movies, too.
Keck: Yeah. Yeah, probably. But I thought like the first 15 minutes of the show was like a comprehensive breakdown of exactly what is going on in the world.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
Keck: And, and, you know, it just characters get added in and, you the show progresses, but like, yeah, I thought like, because I think I had told you, I tried to watch this with a friend and I watched the same 15 20 minutes,
Keck: three times Before i actually get.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yeah that's right. You did say that when you first started watching it, yeah.
Keck: So I watched the first 15 20 minutes a fourth time when I finally got through the first episode. Because I said, if I do not get through this first episode, we we're just very tired.
Keck: It wasn't the content.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
Keck: And I said, if I do this a fourth time and I fail, fuck it. I'm never watching Dune. But like, yeah, I thought that so I really after watching the introduction like narrative, like I really felt like I knew what was going on.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: ah So, yeah, it's not like they didn't do a good job of explaining like intense, like sci-fi elements that were going to be present. I thought they did a great
Kevin Dougherty: Maybe there's too many women in the show, Kak. I don't know, with people these fucking days.
Keck: ah that That was a positive for me.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So I don't know. or Yeah, maybe there weren't.
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, that's what the whole...
Keck: Yeah, maybe there were not enough. Like maybe there wasn't enough diversity in the show. Who the fuck knows?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: I just want to know if you had a hypothesis. I'm not going to waste any more time on the opinions of others.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, exactly.
Keck: But um as you were saying, I'm sorry, you were um we were talking about the fan worm and all that.
Kevin Dougherty: Back
Kevin Dougherty: back back to Desmond.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, back to Desmond. ah By the end, you do find out that like he was... I don't remember if was Tullia. I think it was Tullia's son that she had hid from her sister.
Keck: Yes, correct.
Kevin Dougherty: and Yeah, she she had like ah sent away. ah Yeah, they I love really like the backstory of the two sisters and how like they were on this ice planet thing and they had been wronged by the Atreides and they were kind of banished and they weren't a major house anymore.
Keck: Yeah, i I like that too.
Kevin Dougherty: So it kind of does kind of build up to them like getting power and, um, and they get revenge on the, uh, atreides as well. And that at that camp when she's like working for him and then she just sliders them all.
Kevin Dougherty: I thought that shit was so fucking pissed.
Keck: Yeah. Yeah, it was really pissed.
Kevin Dougherty: so
Keck: Now, um when she ah hides her son, she hides her son from everyone.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Like, no one knows, including Valet, who's basically her closest confidant, you know.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: um And she ah hints that she didn't tell her because I guess she did not trust her either at the time.
Keck: um She kind of thought like, you know, although she, well, that's something I don't know if we touched on. There's two different factions inside the sisterhood as terms of who should be the natural successor of the sisterhood.
Keck: And that is what created like a bit of like a unstable, I don't know, sort of like a Cold War within, like, because none of the other sisters know that Vala actually was behind ah the death of the one who ah was against the...
Keck: original mother's vision. She wanted to no longer do the genetic altering. She did not believe that. I don't think we touched on that. So there's a faction within the sisterhood. They have two different theories of thought.
Keck: One believed that like you know this whole fucking genetic... Because a lot the sisters, and excuse me for jumping around with my thoughts so much, but this is sort of a complex situation.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes. Yeah.
Keck: and we didn't really mention this, the genetic thing, there's only two or three other sisters that know this is even going on, right? Right.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, there there's only ah couple that know that they're using a thinking machine to plan it out.
Keck: Yes. well But, like, aren't there other sisters that don't even know about, like, the engineering?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. yeah they aren yeah
Keck: Like, because I got the idea that only a select few had been in that, like, restricted access layer where they have to, like, go through, like, the secret door and the wall and shit like that.
Kevin Dougherty: it's
Keck: Like...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, when the one girl gets sick, they have to take it. They want to save her, so they take her in there. And like yeah and then a few more people discover that they are using thinking machines, which are like, they're banned across the thing.
Keck: Yeah. yeah ah Yeah, I mean, the penalty is death for having these things.
Kevin Dougherty: and They can't get you. Yeah, yeah.
Keck: say They were considering executing a child for having one of these things, and they were considering executing the parents of one of the child as it being just so unseemly reckless that their kid could even have that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So... ah Yeah, thinking machines are really fucking frowned on. And they're also in the dark and ignorant of the fact that, like, all of their political discourse is still kind of being ruled by these machines in secret.
Keck: So, yeah it's there's a lot of complexities to this plot.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah,
Keck: And I'm i'm just trying to, like, sum it up the best I can.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah, yeah.
Keck: that's all I've got. is so
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, no, yeah think yeah, I think you've got a good grasp over it, yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: um
Keck: But that's what I mean. And like I said, I did not, I don't remember the first movie, haven't seen the second movie, and I still was able to pretty much gauge exactly what the fuck was going on Dune universe at this time.
Keck: So, anyway.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. and the And then at the end, they do go to... um they You do see them go to Arrakis at the very end. And the whole thing with Arrakis is like that's where the spice is you know is from.
Kevin Dougherty: is the most...
Keck: Oh, yeah, the spice.
Kevin Dougherty: and and the spices the most
Keck: ah Do you want to explain the spice?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, the spice is the most valuable thing in the universe. It's so what allows us to have space travel. It's what the Spacing Guild uses for space travel to to get you at long distances.
Kevin Dougherty: and
Keck: it's like gravity drive fuel. It's the fuel that they use to propel themselves using like the light speed warp technology that, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, pretty much.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, it's and it's also used in medicine, but then it's also a drug as well. So yeah.
Keck: Multiple, yeah, it's got, yeah, it's a good, ah yeah, it's got a lot uses.
Kevin Dougherty: And since it's like a natural element on the Earth, it's it's also it's what the the the spice is like.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: It's what the the sandworms like live off of. and it's And if you just breathe the air and you live on the planet for so long, your eyes will turn blue from the spice as well.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And then even at one point, the with the sisters have the the sister mother sister has the ability, if she takes this concoction ah drink, that could kill you. um if you're not strong enough, when she takes this drink, she gets to see the memories from all the past mothers as well.
Kevin Dougherty: So you get this whole lineage of knowledge, uh, when you get, uh,
Keck: Yeah. Well, that's what I wanted you to elaborate on. I want you because I, when, you know, I was talking about the Witcher and like the sorceresses, and that was something that I thought about when they talked about something called the agony.
Keck: I saw it as like ah it reminded me of the process that the witchers have to go through because, you know, only like a certain percentage of them succeed and survive the ritual. And it seemed that the same thing happened here.
Keck: um In fact, in order to experience the agony, usually there were like years of preparation and training just to prepare for this.
Keck: And what did they inject them with? They inject them with a syringe and it looked like it was like ah ah combination of fun and terrible things. Do you know what that was?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah
Keck: Like, was that like them shooting the spice directly into their veins?
Kevin Dougherty: I don't know what the actual...
Keck: Like...
Kevin Dougherty: I don't remember the machine. I do remember in the in Dune Part 2 when Paul Atreides' mother, they they go into the with the Fremen and she's kind of forced to take it and on and but what she doesn't reveal is that she was pregnant at the time.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: and And when she takes it like that also, like it could have not only killed her but killed the baby.
Keck: Yeah. And it would probably have effect on that.
Kevin Dougherty: about that, I like.
Keck: I have to assume that like if there's television commercials, they tell you not to take that shit while pregnant.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. She definitely comes out as like a powerful like sister like when she's like two or three years old. You know what I mean?
Keck: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: She's played by Anya Teo Joy, but she's only like in like some flash-forward scenes and in the newer movies. In the old ah movie and the ah old movie in the book, you get you get a little more of her as like you know ah like a two or three-year-old. Yeah, she's in the old movie as well.
Kevin Dougherty: um And ah yeah, she's like, I believe in the movie, she's the one that kills the Baron Arcanine. ah It's different in the in the book and in the and the new movie as well.
Keck: Wait, the Baron, was he the guy that had the child that had the learning device, that one that um that Desmond burns to death, ah which was really horrific death?
Kevin Dougherty: ah you need me Yes. Well, the sisters the sisters go to them at one point. um But I'm talking about in the movie, the Baron Harkin is the guy, the big fat guy floating around.
Keck: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah, yeah.
Keck: I'm thinking of a totally different character.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah and when
Keck: Sorry. a Totally different character from two different places. Yeah, sorry.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, and when Paul Atreides takes it in the movie, he's not only able to see the past, but he can also see like you know potential futures as well. So like he's got like this all-powerful mind-seeing fucking dude who's like who's got like the most powerful voice and shit like that.
Kevin Dougherty: I'm sorry, in the...
Keck: so Is that Chris Madsen's character?
Kevin Dougherty: he
Keck: Mason's character? Excuse me.
Kevin Dougherty: i'm sorry and and what in the
Keck: He plays Karen Atreides? Is that who you're talking about? Because that was the one character I didn't really understand ah his exact motivations.
Kevin Dougherty: no
Keck: I wasn't sure. He was like ah the one that was training the young...
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yes. He was part of the rebellion that was trying to take down the...
Keck: Okay. Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: They wanted to take out the Imperator.
Keck: The rebellion was the one thing that I was kind of confused on. Like, I'm sure, like, if I had watched the movies, I would have been, like, a lot more schooled on, like, what was going on with that.
Keck: I didn't really understand ah the exact, like, reasons for this ah rebellious group.
Kevin Dougherty: So that rebellion was all put together by the sisterhood and it was always meant to fail. Like the one girl that she would like he's with, she was part of the sisterhood.
Keck: Okay, so that was part of that stuff. Okay. are I did not – yeah, I did not –
Kevin Dougherty: it was Yeah, they had always intended that to to fail and and for and then for them to be, you know, martyred or let go or whatever. Because A, it was part of the, you know, getting back at the Atreides, it was also ah because that way they can get back closer to the Emperor and assert their control over the over the Emperor.
Kevin Dougherty: Because at the time, like, they were kind of ousted from the Emperor in place of Desmond at the end of the
Keck: How does Desmond survive that encounter? Like, you know how when they plant all those bombs to kind of like lure Desmond and like lure them all there and then they're going to blow them all up?
Keck: Desmond, again, is the only survivor. And like right before the explosion, like he hits like that thing, like that shield that kind of like helps you like when they're sparring in combat and shit.
Keck: That was the technology that like allowed him to survive that epic blast that killed everyone?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, so the shield, it ah ah pretty much we'll we it's only allows slow-moving things to go through them. That's why it's always like a knife battle.
Kevin Dougherty: And it's always like fast movement with a slow stab, because you have to go slow to go through there.
Keck: Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: So any like bullets or anything like that is not going to penetrate the shield. So that's why a fast-moving fire will not penetrate the shield, and he'll survive.
Keck: and true But that that had a lot, I mean, in an explosion like that, it's not just fire. You're going to be hit with like massive amounts of like shrapnel from all, from human bodies, bone fragments, from brick and stone, anything that, I mean, they do remark that it was like miraculous that he survived ah because he seems to always survive.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah but yeah any yeah, but any of that flying projectile stuff, isn't kind of it's just going to bounce off the queue.
Keck: Right.
Keck: It's not going to get through.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, not going to go through, yeah.
Keck: All right. But they do remark on like his like incredible survivability, like especially when he survived that like whole encounter.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: And like they said, every they were like, my Lord, survived. Like they kind of say it like he had like and like a knack for constantly surviving when everyone else died.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: I don't know if that's accurate not, but that's like what I got. Like that guy from Halo, the black guy who like always gets his whole entire unit killed and he's the only one that survives and somehow he got promoted.
Keck: Like, I don't know.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah but yeah uh so yeah where i don't remember where i left off but oh yeah yeah and the re rebellion as far as
Keck: I'm just saying anyway.
Keck: you were ah You were describing um Desmond ah using his shielding ability to protect him from the blast. He was the only one that survived that.
Keck: And you were explaining to me about the rebellion. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, they purposely meant that to fail just so they can you know kind of take power back for back to the sisterhood so that they can take control again because because the Emperor...
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: who is Which is funny because like the Emperor's name and the is Mark Strong and this is you know the actor pretty well.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And the whole time i just go I just kept going more like Mark Weak.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: No. but
Kevin Dougherty: More... So yeah, I just thought that was a funny thing me because he always plays like a really absurd of character in this one.
Keck: no
Kevin Dougherty: He was really unsure with himself and, and what, what to do.
Keck: On ah Desmond's character, just going on, um now the wife of the leader of, ah I can't remember what the guy's name was.
Keck: ah
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I don't remember which house they were the, the emperor's house.
Keck: Yeah, but you'll know. I mean, he's the main leader. ah Emperor, yeah, all right. They are Emperor, Emperor, whatever.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, Mark mark Strong.
Keck: Mark Strong.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah, his well I wanted to give the name of his character in the thing for people that don't know who Mark Strong is.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: um You should know who Mark Strong is.
Kevin Dougherty: Emperor Gervato Carino. So I get this house Carino?
Keck: Carino. Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But his wife... She seems to have like, um I don't know if she wants power and to bury her husband. Maybe you can speak more on this. Or maybe she just has like a totally like different thing. But she like befriends Desmond.
Keck: She frees him from prison, doesn't she?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, she's the one that convinces her husband to like use him instead of the...
Keck: And she wants to kill the entire sisterhood. She calls them witches, which they kind of are manipulative witches.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So,
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. They absolutely are, yeah.
Keck: and that and that led me to, like, not knowing what is good and evil, you know, like, who is right and wrong, you know?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, what's great about this is Yeah, it's just that... Yeah, I was just about to say that.
Keck: You don't know.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, there's what's great about the show is like you don't know who's the good guy, who's the guy.
Keck: Exactly.
Kevin Dougherty: They might play off to you as like, hey, these these are the good guys.
Keck: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: But then when you find out more about them and and from other people's perspective, you're like, wait, maybe they aren't the good guys.
Keck: oh
Kevin Dougherty: Wait, who are the good guys?
Keck: Yeah, that doesn't sound that – yeah, good guys don't generally do that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So everything – yeah, they kept it like so – you know, everybody was like objectively everyone seemed to have some good intentions.
Keck: But they all seemed totally ruthless in what they were willing to do to obtain their goals.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: And like, you know, means to an end and the end. um Yeah, there were a lot of very complex ideas. And the only thing I could think of, like, you know, like what I said, a lot less knowledge than you have, is that maybe for a lot of viewers, it was just too complex for them to grasp certain concepts and ideas.
Keck: Maybe they didn't really know, like the good guys, because, you know, that frustrates people. large portions of audience when there are not like clear, good and bad guys, when the lines aren't clearly drawn.
Keck: So that would be my only hypothesis that some people could not like, you know, grasp the concepts.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But um yeah, that was ah the one thing I wanted to ask you about was, um is she someone that's, ah well, I guess she wouldn't be in the movies because we're talking about thousands of years of time.
Keck: But I wanted to hear your opinion on like her character. and
Kevin Dougherty: I just think she thought maybe her husband was weak and that like she needed to, yeah, she needed to like, you know, take control and being more power for herself basically.
Keck: Well, he is weak.
Keck: So that's all it was? Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I mean.
Keck: I wasn't sure if she had like deeper ambitions. from Well, I guess maybe in Season 2. Yeah. if there is a season two, maybe they will touch on like her and that, but like, I mean, cause her husband,
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: he gets completely broken at the end of that show. Like they basically tell him that he's like a fraud figurehead, that nothing he does matters. How they'll leave him in places like, you know, ah ah you know a fiery face or, you know, just like, you know, the the stamp on the envelope. But like that anything he wants to do really doesn't fucking matter.
Keck: And he's just like kind of like, ah, ah, but you know like me like He just gets broken, dude.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. He constantly didn't know what he was doing. Yeah.
Keck: Yeah, he's a total puppet, a total tool.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: And like ah she like goes, and well, wasn't her goal to get arrested?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. yeah
Keck: Like that's what she, so she was just like, don't worry. i know exactly what to tell him. The truth.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: I thought that was great when he gets like broken like that. But at the same time, I kind of felt like he didn't deserve it. Like he didn't seem like he was a bad guy. Like he seemed like he was like really just trying to hold things together and he just wasn't cut out for the job.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: But that just goes to what we were talking about. There's really no good and bad, at least not yet, that we could see. Like if you were in this show, like I would not know who to – fight with or who, you know what mean?
Keck: Like i would like, okay, I'm on my own.
Kevin Dougherty: You could align yourself with, yeah, yeah.
Keck: I'm a bounty hunter. Like I'm both of that, you know?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
Keck: So, um, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: just Just hear from the money, and whoever pays the best.
Keck: I thought the show was great.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I yeah that did too.
Keck: I mean, you,
Kevin Dougherty: But ah yeah, sir in season two was confirmed and supposed to start shooting this mall.
Keck: it's confirmed
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: what ah Is there anything else that stuck out to you in the show? I'm sure we're going to miss something because of all this. um We talked a little bit about the agony, the procedure, um going into because they go into like a spirit realm.
Keck: And, like, they have to, like, deal with, like, I guess, like, mothers and sisters that had perished and, like, that wanted to, like, drag them down and fuck with them. Like, because I guess, like, in order to be, like, one of the real anointed sisters, you have to go through the agony, right?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
Keck: In order to, like, go to, like, one of the emperors, you had to be, like, fully...
Kevin Dougherty: Well, no, the ah the anybody, any one of the sisters can be the advisor for the emperor.
Keck: could go Okay, so you don't have to go through the agony to be...
Kevin Dougherty: It's just the leader. it's It's just the leader of the sisterhood needs to go through it.
Keck: Okay, I was not sure of that.
Kevin Dougherty: Or at least or at least like the leader of that sector. Because in ah and the Doom movies, there's like directorctor of ah there's a mother in that sector on Arrakis, and she has taken it.
Keck: Because I know a lot of... Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: But yeah, it's whatever i guess ah like sector you're in. So you're not the only one, because somebody else, i I believe, had taken it in the show as well.
Keck: Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: So it's not like a one-person-only thing.
Keck: Well, yeah. Well, Valana took it and ah tua took it and they're both at the same place. And at least one other of the sisters had taken it.
Kevin Dougherty: One of the ones that they were prepping to be a leader, she had taken she was the one that almost died, and they had to save her with the machines and stuff.
Keck: Yeah.
Keck: Yeah. Well, didn't she technically die because she's possessed by someone else?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, when you...
Keck: Like, do we know if she's actually, like, if the actual person is still in there?
Kevin Dougherty: She's still in there somewhere.
Keck: Okay, she's still in there.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but she... you
Keck: So so she's going through, like, ah being John Malkovich, like, how John Cusack got, like, isolated, like, in there.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: So, like, she's in there and can see what's happening, but, like, she just can't do shit about it.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: She can't control it right now. Cause like, yeah, cause she's not powerful enough that when she takes that, the other sisters, you know, gets all their memories and, and through the past and stuff. So like, they can kind of take over your body if their memory is stronger.
Kevin Dougherty: And like, she does like a couple different ones will come to focus and you can kind of it's kind of like, so she's still there. She's kind of summoning these other um memories to kind of take control as well she was like i want to speak to so and so and like that person would like come forward but then like they can overbear it yeah yeah
Keck: Yeah, that was one thing I wasn't totally certain on.
Keck: Yeah, no, i get yeah I get that. She was like a conduit. Again, this is like another thing that like made me think of the Witcher. The conduits, like the sorceresses, how they go into that pool and they turn into like eels and stuff like that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: yeah so i don't know i was I don't know why I was thinking a lot about like um the Witcher and Mass Effect again, ah going back to that. ah if you're familiar with the whole series that they have, the legendary edition, especially Mass Effect 3, you deal with the sandworm at the end.
Keck: coming out and fucking like you need that to defeat the thinking machine, the Reapers.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: Like you take down the Reaper with the... So yeah, I just thought like there was a lot of shit. I was like, shit, that's right out of Mass Effect. But more to the point, it's probably Mass Effect took that shit from Dune because Dune was like, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. was just about to say, when you watch Dune, you start to realize how much sci-fi over the ah you got influenced over generations.
Keck: Influenced, yeah. Yeah.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Because this is ah this book was made, what, 60s, I think? Something like that? Maybe earlier?
Keck: it it was The book was published that long ago?
Kevin Dougherty: I want to say something like that. don't remember what.
Keck: Well, by all means, look it up on your own. But yeah, I mean, it gave me the idea, like, you know, yeah, a lot of stuff has probably been influenced by the Dune universe.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
Keck: I mean, it's brilliant.
Kevin Dougherty: 1965. Yeah.
Keck: 1965, wow.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah,
Keck: And the first movie was, like, in the early eighty s right? Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: think it was like...
Keck: It wasn't like it was like right around like 81, 82, something like that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, something like that.
Keck: um And yeah, like I said, I thought that for the time that movie had like really good special effects. But I don't really have much more to say on Dune. Doc, do you have anything that we didn't touch on you want to discuss or any final thoughts?
Kevin Dougherty: ah No, so my final thoughts would be if you want to really good breakdown, if you go to ah YouTube and watch a Screen Crush's Ryan Aries does a really good breakdown of Dune Prophecy, and will probably explain it a lot better than I can.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And yeah and with with visuals, references as well.
Keck: I would recommend watching first and watching that breakdown.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Keck: Like, you know, ah unless you, yeah, because I mean, otherwise, well, obviously, but like if you're somebody that goes in, I guess, and like maybe, i don't know, if you're like three episodes in or something, you're like, I don't want to watch this anymore because I have no idea what the fuck's going on.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, no, no, no.
Keck: Maybe consider checking out a breakdown before, you know, give up on
Kevin Dougherty: Of each episode, yeah, that's not a bad idea, because then he'll he'll get into deeper ah you know meaning and stuff.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: I just watched like a it was like a full recap one that he had done on the whole thing. And now and yeah, obviously obviously watch the show first.
Keck: And what is his name? He has a YouTube channel, and what is his name?
Kevin Dougherty: It's Screen Crush.
Keck: Screen Crush.
Kevin Dougherty: And yeah, if you just look up Screen Crush Dune Prophecy, it'll come up.
Keck: Screen Prophecy, you've got it.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, he's he does pretty much all the videos on there.
Keck: Oh, cool, cool, cool.
Kevin Dougherty: So yeah, uh...
Keck: So you have multiple – please, before like commenting on boards or disliking or anything like that, make sure you like you know watch a breakdown or you know just listen to some material or watch the other movies or – You know something, because for somebody knows very well about Dune, I found this series very entertaining. I'm really looking forward to Season 2.
Keck: And ah the only thing i would say would have been my major dislike, my final thoughts... would be that there was only six episodes. I would have liked to see at least eight.
Keck: And I heard that there was some, like, issue, and there were going to be eight episodes at first, but I couldn't find, like, substantiated source material.
Keck: So for now, you have to take that as a rumor, um because I wasn't able to lock it in.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I appreciated six episodes. I thought six episodes kept the story nice and tight without doing too many sidebar so...
Keck: I would have liked to seen a little bit more. I really think with all the complex plot points that we just laid out and stuff they couldn't even touch on in, I really think, an extra, I mean, i think six episodes this week, but hey, like, that's the only thing I really didn't like. Otherwise, like I said, I'm looking forward to season two, and if anybody watched this and didn't like it, i would definitely,
Keck: even recommend maybe giving it a second watch. Um, you know, especially if you like hear a breakdown or listen to this conversation between me and doc, and maybe like something became clear to you that was cloudy at first.
Keck: Like, uh, I would really advise, um, you know, a second watch, especially now that you confirm that there is going to be a season two. And hopefully season two will be, you know, like eight episodes and they'll really get into the nitty gritty of it.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes.
Keck: So.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, and I believe Dennis Villvenu, who directed...
Keck: and
Keck: I thought you were going to say Dennis Hopper.
Kevin Dougherty: No, no, no.
Keck: i was going be like dude, Dennis Hopper is not available.
Kevin Dougherty: No, the guy who directed ah Dune Part 1 and 2, he should be ah releasing Dune Messiah, his next one, next year, I believe, as well.
Keck: Oh, cool.
Kevin Dougherty: ah think it's ah So we could be getting Dune Prophecy Season 2 and a third Dune movie.
Keck: A third dude. Oh, shit. That would be...
Kevin Dougherty: Which he said was where he wanted to end it, because it's a got a good ending to it, and he thought after that, the books kind of get too ridiculous, and he was like, if somebody else wants to do it, they can't He was like, I'm only doing these.
Keck: that would
Kevin Dougherty: And like I'm sure they will part like ah Warner Brothers will probably end up getting somebody to do it because I'm sure this next one is going to be really successful.
Keck: If it just won awards and it's making money and, yeah, I mean, if it – hey, man, you want to be sure you just go to, like, you know, the executives at Paramount and you just explain to them how you're going to make them money and, like, you know – Dune has proven that.
Keck: So, I mean, who knows? There might be a Dune part four. I mean, there's so many storylines. There's so much. You said it's one book covered two movies, but you kind of described it as like that book could be much further allowed, like Game of Thrones, like the first Game of Thrones book.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Keck: You could make five seasons just on that fucking book. So I've never read Dune, but if the audio book is as cool as you say, I think I might check it out. um So I think that pretty much wraps up Dune. um There was just one other thing before we go that um I wanted to mention the beginning of the cast, but um one of my favorite actors in history – died like a really fucking terrible death along with his wife in Gene Hackman.
Keck: And I just wanted to mention it because I love that man.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yes. yeah
Keck: And the cause of his death was initially ruled suspicious. And yeah, I really wish somebody had just come in and shot him because ah they released two days ago that like his wife had died and he was suffering like Alzheimer's and dementia. So he wasn't with it.
Keck: And they now say that he was like alive, like in the house with his dead wife for days.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I did read that.
Keck: And he died because... He wasn't able to take care of himself. He wasn't able to get water or food. and
Keck: No one deserves to die that way and certainly not a class actor like Gene Hackman, who is a good guy and a good person. And don't mean to get emotional, but like I said, he was one of my favorite actors, maybe just behind like Paul Newman.
Keck: And he was a great guy who loved to act and loved the theater. ah a guy who ah initially just wanted to do comedy And he became such a serious actor. And um I just ah really wish that um he had met another end. I know he was 95 years But...
Keck: but Fuck. I don't have anything more to say. i just wanted to remember Gene Hackman because he was a really great guy and a really brilliant performer that will be missed.
Keck: I don't know if you have anything to add.
Kevin Dougherty: No, I definitely agree with that. my My roommate was watching a Runaway Jury the other day because it had popped up and i was like, oh, classic.
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: I was like, are you just on a hackman kick right now?
Keck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And like, yeah, it's definitely one of those things.
Keck: I mean, his role and in Unforgiven, where he won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor, um there was an interview with Clint Eastwood and he was just talking about how close he had to come to recasting Little Bill Daggett because Gene Hackman had said, look, I don't want to do violent parts anymore.
Kevin Dougherty: It's terrible. Yeah.
Keck: Like, I don't like the violence anymore. And like Clint Eastwood said, like, look, I'm really looking at this part. I think we can really take a stand towards violence. And, um, I really want you to be a part it. And he initially convinced him and thank God that he did. I can't imagine seeing that movie without Gene Hackman.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah so many great yeah yeah way to end this on a downer
Keck: Um, so anyway, this was pretty fucking devastating to me, as you can probably tell. ah Um, Yeah, it's just, yeah, but I mean, I needed to mention this and, you know, dude, he's like one of the best actors of all time.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah i agree
Keck: And yeah, it's just totally fucked that it went this way. I really wish somebody had gone into his house and he was of sound mind and body and they just shot him or something like that because they're like Gene Hackman.
Keck: You're just too good to be alive anymore. Something like that.
Kevin Dougherty: That's just it.
Keck: Anything of what happened to him would have been my preference.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: That's just fucking awful. So anyway, but that even goes to show like he was so private that they didn't even have like a staff. that would go and check in on them. Him and his wife were extremely private people.
Keck: And, you know, he said he loved acting, but he hated fame. He did not like it that everybody recognized him. He couldn't go to the fucking grocery store anymore. You know, think about that.
Keck: Like, you know, it's cool.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Keck: You know I'm an actor. I'm making a lot of money. I'm never going to have to worry about money again. but And the trade-off is everybody's gonna know me wherever the fuck I go, and my life is going to be forever permanently altered.
Keck: So anyway, that's all I have to say on that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah ah
Keck: Doc, any final words of wisdom for this cast?
Kevin Dougherty: no that's that's yeah yeah
Keck: All right. Thank you for joining us. And ah the next cast, we're going to be talking about, well, there's a few different topics, so I'm not going to spoil it, but it will probably be Silo, unless Doc is still scared to do that.
Kevin Dougherty: don't you're talking about. I just want get through a dude first.
Keck: I know. i'm fucked I'm fucking with you. I don't want to run this on anymore. Guys, thank you for joining us. And I hope everybody is doing well out there. I hope 2025 is treating you better than it's treating my mental health.
Keck: So everybody take care. Thanks.
Kevin Dougherty: Thanks. Peace.
