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We discuss the HboMax series The Head

Transcript

Introduction to Fright Central and HBO's 'The Head'

00:00:18
Kevin Dougherty
All right, welcome back to Fright Central, where we talk all things horror. and I'm back here again with Keck, and we are going to talk about the HBO series The Head, um which is something that you had introduced me to um because I'd never heard of it.
00:00:34
Kevin Dougherty
So I don't know how you we're we are going to spoil this. So you may want to stop and go back and watch it first. But i yeah, I would definitely recommend doing that because we both really like the show.
00:00:47
Kevin Dougherty
um Why don't you tell me how you found this show?
00:00:50
Brandon
Well, um, I had found, this show because I was talking to a friend of mine, um who had recently been

Popularity and Promotion of 'The Head' in Europe vs. US

00:01:00
Brandon
married. She lives in Norway and, uh, we were discussing, um, another good horror, um, show called, uh, the bridge. They actually made, um, an American version of it with Diane Kruger and, um,
00:01:18
Brandon
I don't know if I said her last name correctly. Forgive me, Diane. um But ah she was telling โ€“ were talking about the bridge, and I don't know if you ever saw the American version. It was actually โ€“ I mean, i wasn't really a big fan the American version, but the Swedish version in Scandinavia was just done really, really well. And like โ€“ It caught like ah widespread attention throughout the EU. It won ah awards in the United Kingdom.
00:01:48
Brandon
it I think BBC started picking up. And we were talking about shows that um were like real popular in Europe and ah that had like the same degree of popularity back here in the States.
00:02:02
Brandon
And we were finding out there weren't that many. And she mentioned the head to me.

Plot Overview: A Mystery in Antarctica

00:02:08
Brandon
And she said, well, I know it's on HBO over here.
00:02:13
Brandon
And I said, ah well, let me check. And I found that it was also on HBO over here. And so I watched the first season and i was like, shit, you know, I think Doc might be into this.
00:02:28
Brandon
ah um But the thing about it was, is that I had never heard of it before at all until she told me about it. And she had said that it was pretty popular, at least for them. Like I said, well, did you see like trailers for it? And she said, yeah. Yeah.
00:02:44
Brandon
I saw trailers for it on tv It had been advertised. um I recognized a couple of the actors that were in it. and But otherwise, yeah I would have never heard of it whatsoever if not for her. I didn't see them promote it here at all.
00:03:04
Brandon
And it was surprising to me that you hadn't heard of it because um you know I know that you have ah the HBO streaming service. and you're usually always on top of that stuff, but it seems like HBO didn't promote it at all. So I don't know if HBO picked it up, but you had said that it was an HBO original.
00:03:28
Brandon
And so, yeah, I was kind of baffled that ah they... had a show that had, and it was active at the time. Like when I had watched the third and final season, I had found out that it had just ended like a week before that.
00:03:47
Brandon
And so this had three full seasons on HBO and I had never heard a peep about it from anyone and there was no promotion.

Story Elements: Comparisons to 'The Thing'

00:03:58
Brandon
So that's when I said, doc, you should check this out and tell me if I'm crazy, but like this actually seems like it's decent and yeah, and I really enjoyed it. So
00:04:11
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I did too. ah When you had told me, you were like, yeah, check out this show. I thought it was like something we had missed from like the maybe the early 2010s or something like that.
00:04:18
Brandon
yeah.
00:04:20
Kevin Dougherty
You were like, no, it just ended. And I was like, wow, like how did they like not promote this? I mean, I do have a ton of streaming services, but like I normally would see it if it was like on like the home screen or something.
00:04:27
Brandon
Yeah.
00:04:30
Kevin Dougherty
I actually had to like go search for it. ah
00:04:33
Brandon
I did too.
00:04:34
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. And you were like, yeah, you got to at least ah watch the first episode because it's like, It's very The Thing-filled. And you're like, in fact, they actually watch The Thing as part of a ritual of what they do for every season. So ah basically, the way it's about like a research station in Antarctica.
00:04:51
Kevin Dougherty
And they're trying to you know solve shit, Yes. Yes. like
00:04:57
Brandon
Yeah, they're there to do like ah Antarctic research, basically.
00:04:58
Kevin Dougherty
yeah an innovative research
00:05:02
Kevin Dougherty
yes
00:05:03
Brandon
It's called the Polaris Station. So whenever you hear Polaris, you always think sci-fi horror. And yeah, they're there. I believe they're um doing research on wildlife and cells.
00:05:17
Kevin Dougherty
And climate change was what they were ah trying to fight against.
00:05:18
Brandon
and
00:05:22
Kevin Dougherty
It was like a, early they were like studying the effects and like, they were trying to find, you know, I think like ah something that was in our Antarctica to help fight climate change and stuff.
00:05:22
Brandon
what Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:34
Brandon
Yes.
00:05:34
Kevin Dougherty
So, yeah.
00:05:35
Brandon
Oh, yeah. that It was um an algae.
00:05:38
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:05:38
Brandon
They don't really describe what...
00:05:38
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:05:40
Brandon
You know they're researching something. Like in season one, you know that they're researching something to help. Like, you know, I mean, the um guy, arthur the character Arthur, played by John Lynch, um who I thought was fantastic in it, yeah.
00:05:58
Brandon
He's kind of got, like, the God complex where he thinks, like, he's just going to be the man that, like, saves the human race like it's all about. But in the first season, they don't, like, emphasize the research too hardcore because, well, I mean โ€“ I thought they did a really great job in the first episode of creating like that element of mystery where I was like, I just let myself go.
00:06:27
Brandon
I was like, I have no idea where the fuck they're going with this. Cause you know, it's got like, it shows intro scene, you know big party, you know, and they're going into their, um, they're up in, uh, the Alaskan wilderness, I believe.
00:06:43
Kevin Dougherty
No,

Character Analysis: Arthur and His Relationships

00:06:44
Kevin Dougherty
Antarctica.
00:06:44
Brandon
They're actually in Antarctica. It's not northern Alaska.
00:06:46
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:06:48
Brandon
So they're actually Polaris. I believe the Polaris 6 Research Station it's called. It's in Antarctica. And they're about to go through. They're like 30. No, it's not 30 days of night. It's like several months of night.
00:07:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, think it was like 90 days even.
00:07:03
Brandon
where Yeah, I think it's something...
00:07:04
Kevin Dougherty
and remember i don't remember exactly what it was, but.
00:07:06
Brandon
It says like on April 29th till like sometime in August or something. Like it's their winter period. And in the winter up there, I guess it's not like a dead night, but it's never really light out. So it is night, like you see no sun. And they, what basically they describe in the first episode is when that period ah comes, they have like a skeleton crew, basically, I guess they could not ah conduct the research very thoroughly during those periods. I think the algae needed sunlight or something like that.
00:07:48
Brandon
But when they go through their night ah period for however long it is, they have basically what they call the winter crew. And that's just like a skeleton crew, people that stay at the research station and do basic maintenance of things. Like you remember the intro to the thing, you see Kurt Russell drinking a bottle of whiskey, basically playing old Atari and, you know, just trying to keep himself sane.
00:08:14
Brandon
That's the total environment you get in the head. It's basically just like the thing, you know, it's just people performing these like routine maintenance tasks and something, nothing too heavy.
00:08:26
Brandon
But the introduction is they they, they're supposed to check in, you know, and they basically do not check in So they send out like a rescue crew after, you Shit, I'm not actually, it's not so fresh on my mind.
00:08:43
Brandon
I can't remember if they actually sent out a rescue crew or if...
00:08:48
Kevin Dougherty
No, they don't come till spring ah when but when they finally come.
00:08:50
Brandon
yeah so it's the it's the crew that comes out to relieve them that's what it is it's it's when they're not going from skeleton crew to full crew now and yeah and they mentioned that they're really worried because one of the guys his wife is on the skeleton crew while he's back, you know, in civilization.
00:08:54
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:09:12
Brandon
And they're real worried because they haven't checked in for like something like three weeks. And they're trying to think like, you know, oh, I'm sure they're going to be okay.
00:09:24
Brandon
You know, there was probably, you know, with the weather, you know, it's not crazy for them to lose contact for a week or two.
00:09:27
Kevin Dougherty
Thank you.
00:09:31
Brandon
But like they had acknowledged that this had been like a really long uh, spatial time for them

Unraveling the Mystery: Season 1 Climax

00:09:38
Brandon
not to have any contact. And then they get there and the place is just, you know, totally fucking abandoned except for them finding one girl who, uh, seems like she like made her last stand and like barricaded herself into this room. And, uh, why don't you take it from there a little bit?
00:09:58
Kevin Dougherty
Well, yeah, then then the rest story is pretty much told in flashbacks from ah like like an interview that i he is looking for his wife to the person they found, Maggie.
00:10:11
Kevin Dougherty
And she's, like, traumatized and apparently, like, the only sole survivor of the group. So it's, like, trying to, like, be careful with her, trying to get information out of her without, like,
00:10:24
Kevin Dougherty
triggering her to go back and like you know having a panic attack or whatever yeah
00:10:27
Brandon
Yeah, she was like catatonic and like psychological breakdown. So they were trying to be very careful with her mental state.
00:10:36
Kevin Dougherty
yeah and then like the and basically like they find uh they went in the storytelling of her going back to the very first kill it's somebody goes looking for somebody that was supposed to like restart a generator or whatever and uh they find
00:10:54
Kevin Dougherty
they find their head missing.
00:10:57
Brandon
just like that
00:10:57
Kevin Dougherty
Sorry about that. I have a cough. Yeah, pretty much the first... ah That's why it's called the head. it was because the first person they find was a person with no head. And they't they didn't know where the head was either. No,
00:11:10
Brandon
I would never have thought to call it the head, would you?
00:11:13
Kevin Dougherty
not at all. And I was wondering like why it was called the head. And it was like, oh, that's because it's the the first kill. And that's repeated in the other...
00:11:24
Kevin Dougherty
the next two seasons as well, where the, uh, the first one is that, uh, is they find ahead as well. But to go back to the, uh, the first season, yeah, the, it goes through a series of like, somebody's out, somebody that lives there is killing people there. So they don't know who it is they're trying to figure that out.
00:11:47
Kevin Dougherty
And, uh, yes.
00:11:48
Brandon
And we are going to spoil the fuck out of this because this is what we do.
00:11:49
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:11:51
Brandon
You know, yeah if you haven't seen it, then don't listen.
00:11:54
Kevin Dougherty
Yes, please go back and watch because the spoiler is coming.
00:11:55
Brandon
Yeah. Arthur. but yeah
00:11:57
Kevin Dougherty
So the they do find another person alive yeah when they go searching like in the underground tunnels.
00:12:05
Brandon
arthur
00:12:05
Kevin Dougherty
and Yes, and ah Maggie is blaming him for all the murders. and they And everyone believes him because she tells a very great story, but the the very end you find out she's been doing it the whole time as revenge for...
00:12:24
Kevin Dougherty
her mother going missing it or you being killed in a, uh, in a supposed accident.
00:12:29
Brandon
Yeah, you find that she's a psychopath. She's a psychopathic killer.
00:12:32
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah. And she's been like, yeah you know, manipulating her way into getting onto the team and everything. Cause she had found out that like her mother, uh, had died in mysterious ways. And like,
00:12:47
Kevin Dougherty
knows that like it, uh, found out but that it was like a ah sexual assault, but it was like, didn't purposely kill her. It was like an accident, but like they covered it up. So, uh, yeah, he, she goes out for revenge and fucking murders everyone. And, uh, like I didn't see, i didn't see that twist coming. I was like, Oh, i like what, right before like that very end where they reveal it was her the whole time.
00:13:10
Kevin Dougherty
i was like, okay, I mean, that was pretty cool. I i mean, it was him the whole time. But that was cool. um like Of course he of course it was killing everyone. And then it was like then like that revealed. the I was like, oh, shit.
00:13:21
Kevin Dougherty
like I didn't see that coming either at all. other When I recommended the show after I finished it to this lady at work, when she was watching the first season.
00:13:31
Kevin Dougherty
i like she I was like, oh, what episode you on? She'd be like, three or four. I'd be like, oh, so do yeah do you have do you think who the killer is? She was like, I think it's ah that guy author. like He seems real shady.
00:13:41
Kevin Dougherty
I was like, yeah, that's why I it.
00:13:42
Brandon
Yeah.
00:13:43
Kevin Dougherty
was like, yeah, yeah, you got it. ah But yeah, but then the end, she was like, yeah, I did not see that coming either. And I would do that every season, like when she would get to like a certain point, I was like, okay, so who do you think it is in season two?
00:13:54
Kevin Dougherty
So stephen season two picks up, what, six months later?
00:13:58
Brandon
I believe believe it's, yeah, it's pretty close after. ah Yeah, I think it's about, Arthur is on trial.
00:14:07
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:14:07
Brandon
So ah he's in jail up until his trial. I think it's like, I think it might be three, yeah, three to six months.
00:14:14
Kevin Dougherty
I think it's six months.
00:14:15
Brandon
I'm not sure, but it's it's pretty much directly after the events of the first season.
00:14:15
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:21
Brandon
And there's something,
00:14:21
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. I remember telling you, i was like, how are they going to continue this afterwards?
00:14:24
Brandon
i yeah.
00:14:25
Kevin Dougherty
I was like, they rested that dude. I was like, and then she's off. I was like, is it going to be like a different thing every season? It kind of is, but it's also following the same characters. Cause like he escapes and then he ends up on a ship out in,
00:14:40
Kevin Dougherty
international waters for all I know. They don't really say exactly where.
00:14:44
Brandon
No, they actually do explain that pretty well.
00:14:46
Kevin Dougherty
yeah they?
00:14:47
Brandon
um just Just one thing I wanted to add. um I should have said this right away. um the premise between The premise behind everything is really ridiculous with the head. It's just not a believable story that this girl would be able to get and manipulate her way in and do all that.
00:15:07
Brandon
So if you're going and you're looking for like something that's like real cool and coherent and like, you know, you can kind of say, oh, you know, I could see that happening.
00:15:17
Kevin Dougherty
I
00:15:19
Brandon
Yeah, that's not, this is not the show for you, but if you want just something that's a lot of fun, like horror with like a little sci-fi element and just like let your imagination go and just realize that it's going to keep getting more and more ridiculous, then, you know, you are in for a great ride.
00:15:39
Brandon
And I just felt like I should have maybe said that first, uh, when you had said, how did you hear about this?
00:15:39
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:15:44
Kevin Dougherty
i would think
00:15:47
Brandon
So I just thought we should say.
00:15:47
Kevin Dougherty
I would say it was pretty, sorry, I thought it was pretty coherent.
00:15:52
Brandon
Yeah, I shouldn't have said that.
00:15:52
Kevin Dougherty
It's not like, yeah.
00:15:53
Brandon
That was the wrong word. What I meant was just ludicrous. Like, I mean, the story is ludicrous that this, like, one young... Like, I could get, like, maybe if she was, like, ex-military and, like, you know, she was, like, trained in killing. and but like, she got on that crew as an imposter as, like... Granted, they did try to explain and say, hey, she was in the skeleton crew... And they didn't have a lot of time to vet. But then like Arthur goes behind and he says, I vet the shit out of everyone. Like, you know, it's just absurd to think that this girl would have gotten in there and then been capable of doing all this stuff.
00:16:37
Brandon
And she's also a psycho because... Only really Arthur was responsible for her mother's death. Like, sure, like she was able to justify that they all kind of kept their mouth shut.
00:16:46
Kevin Dougherty
It was good.
00:16:52
Brandon
But let me ask you, and I'm posing you this real question right now. If you thought that your research was going to possibly be responsible for saving the entire human race and maybe all life on the planet, and someone died accidentally, and you knew it was an accident that you know ah could not well could not have been avoided, well, obviously now because and already happened,
00:17:26
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:17:26
Brandon
Would you say, because obviously what Arthur's logic, and this does make sense, he says if they find out that this woman died here, Then our program is finished.
00:17:39
Brandon
Like, you know, I don't care. Like, you know, I could take responsibility and, you know, take my risks ah saying she slipped. It was an accident. But this program is going to be forever closed down. So he was like trying to say, like, at least this is what he sold to the rest of the crew. And I thought this was effective saying, like, guys, this was an accident.
00:18:02
Brandon
I did not mean to hurt this woman. We need to fucking fabricate some kind of story so that like the research can continue.
00:18:12
Brandon
My question to you is, what do you think? Like, would you believe that that would be justifiable in that kind of situation?
00:18:23
Kevin Dougherty
Well, I think for the first season anyway, it's more believable because, like, ah yes, it would have been shut down because of the out of the way the accident happened. It wasn't just like, oh, they she froze to death or she went crazy or she starved or, like, there was a machine accident or something like that.
00:18:41
Kevin Dougherty
The accident was that you were trying to, like, you know, sexually assault this woman and then you you know, hit got like made her fall and like hit her head and bust her head up.
00:18:52
Kevin Dougherty
And so you are kind of responsible for that accident.
00:18:52
Brandon
Yeah.
00:18:55
Kevin Dougherty
So yes, it would have been shut down, but yes.
00:18:57
Brandon
Did they have a romantic relationship before that?
00:19:01
Kevin Dougherty
Not really.
00:19:01
Brandon
I wasn't real clear on that. Like, I didn't know, like, was he trying to rape her?
00:19:04
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:19:06
Brandon
You think at that time, because it seemed like they already had something going and like this time she wasn't in the mood and, but he was making like overtures and she said, no, like, look, I'm not trying to do this.
00:19:22
Brandon
And then she slipped and yeah. So obviously he was, she had said, no, he was in the wrong definite. Okay. But did the he have stuff going with her before that?
00:19:35
Kevin Dougherty
I think before, like, she like cause she was married to Jonah, who's there to, like, investigate the whole thing.
00:19:41
Brandon
Yes.
00:19:43
Kevin Dougherty
So I think maybe before they got married, they might have had a thing, and he was trying to rekindle it, I believe.
00:19:51
Brandon
Well, no, that wasn't Jonah's wife.
00:19:54
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:19:55
Brandon
Mm-mm.
00:19:57
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, no, you're right, you're right.
00:19:57
Brandon
Jonah's wife. Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying.
00:20:00
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:20:00
Brandon
it's It's really easy to with all the complexities that they throw at you.
00:20:01
Kevin Dougherty
Oh.
00:20:06
Brandon
Like this is a show that throws at you so many ideas, like so many little sidebars. So many little rabbit holes that you can go down in your thoughts.
00:20:17
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:20:17
Brandon
And I thought they did that really well. So like you making that little mistake right there, I made that same error in my head. Because when I went back to rewatch and see like why, like I wanted to see like if Maggie had concrete proof that these people were all responsible for her mother's death.
00:20:38
Brandon
Like is that some way just, but like, I found that there's no way she could have known for certain before she started killing.
00:20:47
Kevin Dougherty
i I think the one, one of the guys from that original one, ah is the one who told her, uh,
00:20:57
Brandon
Yeah, I'm a little bit, ah but go ah go ahead in your train of thought. You were saying, so, but so we clearly label it out.
00:21:06
Kevin Dougherty
so we don't, I don't remember if they had a relationship or not.
00:21:07
Brandon
Yeah.
00:21:10
Brandon
Yeah.
00:21:10
Kevin Dougherty
Uh, that'd be Maggie's mother and Arthur.
00:21:12
Brandon
Yeah.
00:21:12
Kevin Dougherty
Uh, sorry, not,
00:21:12
Brandon
And just to be clear, Jonah's wife was a research colleague of Arthur's who assisted him in the cover-up when he basically poses the question to her that I just posed to you.
00:21:29
Brandon
You know, this was an accident.
00:21:29
Kevin Dougherty
Yes, yeah.
00:21:31
Brandon
I did not mean to do it. And Jonah's wife suspects that like Arthur might have had foul play, but like she sees the benefit of the research over, you know, the death of one individual.
00:21:47
Brandon
And it's almost an impossible decision morally, i think to have, you know what I mean? Because like, obviously you suspect that this could have been cold blooded murder,
00:21:59
Brandon
But you also might think, like, yeah, maybe it was just a simple accident. All I know is if we, like, report this shit, this program ends.

Season 2 Developments and Absurdities

00:22:10
Brandon
And, you know, our lives up until this point have been for naught. And this research probably will never continue in time to save the planet.
00:22:23
Brandon
And so, yeah I mean, so that's just establishing who they were. But...
00:22:28
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, so um so in the second season, ah they go, they're on, like, he's, i don't know if he's released or if he escaped.
00:22:39
Kevin Dougherty
I was still unclear about that because, like, sort leave suddenly he's on this boat.
00:22:39
Brandon
Yeah, I know. No, I could help you.
00:22:45
Kevin Dougherty
ah But it's, like, him and his daughter on there and this new ah um financier is now financing the whole thing.
00:22:57
Kevin Dougherty
And they have discovered the algae from Antarctica and they're on a ship to try to continue doing that. And then, so you say he was released or he escaped?
00:23:07
Kevin Dougherty
Because I was confused.
00:23:07
Brandon
Well, the end of season one was basically Maggie has killed everyone except Arthur. So just so we're at the same point.
00:23:16
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. the So he could frame her. Yes. Yes.
00:23:18
Brandon
Yeah. And they have ah the team that came to relieve them and to, ah you know, continue the research, the summer team and everything to bring the station up to its full functionality They have accepted Maggie's um explanation of the events that led to all these deaths.
00:23:40
Brandon
So ah basically Maggie has been successful in convincing everyone that Arthur is the psychopathic murderer. And ah Arthur then goes to prison.
00:23:54
Brandon
He is ah tried. He's found guilty. And he is convicted to, I think, like 25. I think he's basically convicted to... ah well, more time than he could ever possibly ah survive. He's like life without the possibility of parole.
00:24:14
Brandon
And he escapes through some kind of group who basically when he's being transported from the courthouse to ah ah place where he's going to spend the rest of his incarceration, he is um they set something up like an ambush, basically the prison transport.
00:24:40
Brandon
And he had made contact with a guard, like a member of the prison staff, if you remember correctly.
00:24:47
Kevin Dougherty
We don't find that out until season three, though.
00:24:49
Brandon
Yeah. You don't find that out until, yeah.
00:24:50
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. Yes.
00:24:51
Brandon
But so the way things are, they all kind of go in like, it could have all been one season.
00:24:52
Kevin Dougherty
So I'm just saying in the context...
00:24:58
Brandon
You know what I mean?
00:24:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, but in the context of season two, they don't explain like how he broke out, is well as what I mean.
00:24:58
Brandon
It's,
00:25:02
Brandon
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you make a good point.
00:25:05
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:25:06
Brandon
But just the boat,
00:25:06
Kevin Dougherty
So the fact that you don't find that out until almost the end of season three to even go...
00:25:10
Brandon
that that's correct. You're right.
00:25:12
Kevin Dougherty
But yeah, so season two, uh, he's, so they're on the ship and they're continuing their research and then the murders start happening again, but Maggie's not all on the ship, so they don't know who's doing it this time.
00:25:12
Brandon
I...
00:25:25
Brandon
Yeah. One point about the boat, because I did think that this was really, really ridiculous, and I just want to touch on it before we um and get into season two.
00:25:26
Kevin Dougherty
ah
00:25:37
Brandon
They did actually explain the boat pretty well, because basically whoever rescues Arthur from prison... These are people that realize that his research, if successful, is going to be your ticket to basically unlimited amounts of money.
00:25:56
Brandon
Like, you know, we're talking about the survival of the planet.
00:25:56
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. Yeah.
00:26:00
Brandon
We're talking about the lives of every man, woman, and child. ever to come. So like everybody knows that like, if this research is successful, they're going to be rich beyond their wildest dreams, and they're going to be global celebrities.
00:26:15
Brandon
So they basically put Arthur in like international National Waters, where they're able to do their research because it's algae.
00:26:20
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:26:25
Brandon
So it's kind of like a perfect like place to do it. And they do it mobily. And it kind of gave me um ah lots of memories from three-body problems.
00:26:37
Brandon
Three body problem where they're on like that ship and they're talking to, you know, the Lords the whole time. And that's the way they're able to stay mobile. So basically they're on this like large vessel out in the middle of international waters so that like, you know, there's no like law enforcement like authority out there.
00:26:59
Brandon
And so, yeah. So, and he hand selects every member of the crew and they're all aware that, you know, cause this made like, you know, global fucking spotlight that, you know, this famous researcher, went crazy and killed everybody in Antarctica.
00:27:15
Brandon
So every member of the crew, they all know that, you know, he's won it and he's a fugitive on the run, but they have that mindset that like this research is going to save humanity and we will all be forgiven at some point.
00:27:30
Brandon
So I just wanted to.
00:27:30
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and he also is like you know very you know adamant about saying he didn't kill anybody well.
00:27:36
Brandon
Yes, that's that's true.
00:27:37
Kevin Dougherty
so and like And his daughter's on the team as well, and she believes him that he didn't kill anyone. But everybody's kind of like, okay, whatever. They're getting paid well.
00:27:48
Kevin Dougherty
So i'll they continue their research, and then you know the murders start happening again in the same order with the head being the first thing they're missing.
00:27:48
Brandon
Yeah.
00:27:55
Brandon
Yeah.
00:27:56
Kevin Dougherty
They start doing DNA test and that person goes missing. He was about the show who did it.
00:28:01
Brandon
Yeah.
00:28:03
Kevin Dougherty
And yeah, I think this season was a little more, uh, ridiculous than the, uh, than the first season. That's for sure. Uh, especially when like you get to the end and you find out it's been all through the whole time killing everyone.
00:28:15
Brandon
yeah
00:28:15
Kevin Dougherty
Cause Maggie's not on the ship and Maggie is like searching to find out where he is. Cause she's like, he got away. We need to go get him.
00:28:22
Brandon
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, she's, I mean, because it makes, like, but you know, everybody knows that it was, like, this biggest name. Yeah, and she's fucking flipping out, like, where is this motherfucker?
00:28:32
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:28:35
Kevin Dougherty
And in trying to discover like where he is, she ends up getting her sister killed.
00:28:41
Brandon
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:42
Kevin Dougherty
Who like, uh, who like, uh, corroborated with her to help her get on the first, uh, mission and everything. Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:50
Brandon
They're both insane. They're
00:28:52
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:28:53
Brandon
Yeah.
00:28:53
Kevin Dougherty
But only one of them was like, yeah, I can actually fucking go murder people. Like, yeah.
00:29:01
Brandon
So, I mean, it's pretty obvious. it's It's a ridiculous notion, but I mean, I just loved it.
00:29:07
Kevin Dougherty
Oh yeah, I did too, yeah.
00:29:07
Brandon
I just absolutely loved it. And so
00:29:09
Kevin Dougherty
but Like the big guy that was like, um you know, he was kind of slow, he was mentally challenged, he was like one of the guy's brothers who like they start blaming for stuff.
00:29:17
Brandon
that's where I was going to go next. Yeah.
00:29:19
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, they start blaming him even though like it it clearly wasn't him, but then like he gets a like a mental breakdown and he goes on like a rampage while all this is happening.
00:29:30
Brandon
Yeah.
00:29:31
Kevin Dougherty
and Yeah, it got really ridiculous. is my the My biggest ah thing with this after I watched the the ah season two was like, so wait, you're going to be accused of murder the first time and then go on a murder spree the second time?
00:29:47
Kevin Dougherty
Like, now definitely nobody's going to believe that you were the one fucking doing it.
00:29:51
Brandon
He kinda had to though, I guess.
00:29:55
Kevin Dougherty
He didn't, if you think about it, like the whole reason he started, they explained this, the whole reason he starts killing people is because the one guy discovered that his algae was poisonous and going to kill people. So, but instead of doing further research to try to fix the problem that they had, they were, he was immediately like, well, I'm not abandoning this.
00:30:16
Kevin Dougherty
And like, and nobody said to abandon it either. He was just like, Hey, like, Hey, this is not coming up the way we thought it was.
00:30:22
Brandon
Yeah.
00:30:23
Kevin Dougherty
And like, Because clearly the third season they have, you know, they go on to fix that problem because now they're doing test subjects and we'll get into that in a minute.
00:30:29
Brandon
Yeah.
00:30:32
Kevin Dougherty
But it's like, so you, so the whole point of you killing people in the second season didn't even need to happen. And, but at the end of the second season, he gets fucking killed anyway. Yeah.
00:30:41
Brandon
It's total commitment, though. Like he has to see, I guess in his mind, you have to think of how he would think of it, because Arthur talks about how and this was my biggest gripe is in season two. Arthur talks about how he hand selected every member of that team.
00:31:00
Brandon
Except for the one who is like a girl he's fucking and she thinks that she's going to be like selected to be on the team and he's just like nah like I've selected somebody better than you know besides like you wouldn't want to think that like I just brought you along because like you're the chick I'm fucking you know what I mean.
00:31:22
Brandon
She's really hurt by that. And I can't remember if she orchestrates that one woman to die so that she could take their place or not. I can't really remember.
00:31:34
Brandon
But ah she's on the crew. But he talks about how... He meticulously goes through and selects every single person that's going to be on that boat. But for some reason, they have a guy on there who is obviously on the spectrum.
00:31:51
Brandon
He is to say he's mentally slow is kind of being kind. I mean, the guy has like, um you know, I know it's not a kind word anymore, but he's got um some kind of mental retardation.
00:31:57
Kevin Dougherty
yes he has mental disorder so yes
00:32:06
Brandon
And ah he is prone, but here's the thing. He's not like a gentle guy. He's prone to psychotic, violent, psychotic outbreaks.
00:32:16
Kevin Dougherty
violence my god
00:32:19
Brandon
Then aside from him, that's already incredibly ridiculous. Aside from him, there is, um I don't know where this guy is from, but he's got a real chip on the shoulder.
00:32:32
Brandon
Um, he is, uh, I think he might be from Haiti or somewhere like that, but he talks about, um, from the very beginning, he's got like a very, uh, negative outlook about all this.
00:32:48
Kevin Dougherty
Thank you.
00:32:48
Brandon
And he also has substance abuse problems. He doesn't take orders. Basically, he's like a real loose cannon who talks about how much he doesn't want to be there the entire time.
00:33:02
Brandon
So for me, I was just like, how did you carefully hand select everyone on the research team? Yet the people that were supposed to be doing like ship maintenance and in charge of ship security, you have one who's known for like having psychological breaks.
00:33:23
Brandon
And then another guy who obviously has problems with substance abuse and who, you know,
00:33:28
Kevin Dougherty
Well, did... Sorry, did he hand-select everybody on the ship or just on the science team? Because I thought the...
00:33:37
Brandon
that's a good That's a good question, but I'm going to say he had to hand-select everybody because they all know that they are committing a crime being out on that ship.
00:33:47
Kevin Dougherty
But I thought it was the fiancรฉe, the new ah person, that was the woman, the older woman that was trying that was funding the whole thing.
00:33:47
Brandon
Everybody knows who he is.
00:33:56
Brandon
Yes, correct.
00:33:56
Kevin Dougherty
I thought she had scheduled the ship. ah So it was like the ship and their crew that was already on there. and they She was paying them, and he was allowed to bring in his team out of who he wanted.
00:34:07
Brandon
got That's possible.
00:34:07
Kevin Dougherty
it And that's why there was like conflict between the science team and and them
00:34:09
Brandon
That's possible.
00:34:13
Brandon
That's possible. But still, even in that situation, don't you think this woman who talks about how she's investing, I think she says she has other investors too.
00:34:24
Brandon
There's people that are throwing billions at this project because they know that like it could be the solution, the key to everything. And you don't think that like she would have kind of selected? like I'm not saying they all had โ€“ well, first off, actually, no.
00:34:39
Brandon
They show interviews of everybody. Right. like their like psychological profile, like they go through everybody. And I just don't understand how they would let someone who ah is prone to psychotic breaks.
00:34:55
Brandon
And obviously another guy who is not up to being there. on that ship. You know, when you're hand selecting, you would just think that you would have everybody that would be there would probably be of the most sound, not only psychological, but you would think that like they would be well-paid, well-compensated professionals that knew to just go about their shit, not ask any questions and not have fucking psychotic breakdowns.
00:35:27
Brandon
And not have fucking problems with drugs and alcohol and ah authority. So that was my biggest thing was those two characters.
00:35:39
Brandon
But again, those characters were fucking hilarious. And even though it was so ridiculous, i love season two.
00:35:47
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:35:47
Brandon
ah The kills were great. And I'm sorry, you were kind of doing it, but like you had mentioned like your big gripe about my big gripe was those two characters. um It wasn't as much as like, I mean, coming from Arthur, I hear what you're saying.
00:36:02
Brandon
Like we could have taken longer to just fix the problem. But Arthur, you know, again, like he had that God complex. In his mind, he's afraid that that guy's going to go and tell everybody else, which he said he was going to do, that there's a problem with the algae.
00:36:19
Brandon
And those people were then going to lose faith. And they were going to be like, what the fuck are we doing here? We are, you know, covering up an escaped convict. Like, you know, we are now risking our, you know, our futures legally. Like we are now all in jeopardy. And Arthur believes that that is going to break up the and entire unit cohesion.
00:36:43
Brandon
And, uh, so he decides to become the monster everybody thought he was. And he's like, I'm going to kill this fucker to stop it. And then I'm going to say everything's all right. And, uh,
00:36:56
Brandon
You know what? I'm going to decapitate him and blame it on Maggie.
00:37:00
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:37:01
Brandon
That's so ridiculous.
00:37:01
Kevin Dougherty
Or, the or the, at least the thought that Maggie had a mole there back in the crew again.
00:37:05
Brandon
Yeah. a about Yes. Yes. yes
00:37:08
Kevin Dougherty
ah but it turns out there is no mole. It's just him doing it the whole time. Uh, his, he, uh, you also find out his daughter's dating somebody on the crew as well. And, uh, the three of them, um, his daughter, Arthur and the boyfriend, I guess, uh, all end up escaping onto uh,
00:37:29
Kevin Dougherty
a life raft or after whatever, and that's when you find out that, like, Arthur's been the one kind of behind the whole thing, and they threaten to expose him, and Arthur poisons him with the water, tainted water algae, so he dies, and then...
00:37:43
Brandon
Oh yeah, that's right. the The weather becomes poisonous. That's right.
00:37:48
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yeah, and then Maggie ends up ah killing him, and then it jumps to, what, like, almost a year later? it was nine...
00:37:58
Brandon
Wait, when what do you mean Maggie ends up killing him?
00:38:02
Kevin Dougherty
Well, doesn't he a ah go overboard and she doesn't save him?
00:38:05
Brandon
No, we should, ah well, first off, ah yeah, his own daughter kills Arthur.
00:38:11
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:38:12
Brandon
It's not Matt. Maggie's not the name of his daughter.
00:38:14
Kevin Dougherty
No, saying Maggie's not there

Season 3: New Dynamics and Tensions

00:38:16
Brandon
Yeah.
00:38:16
Kevin Dougherty
at all.
00:38:17
Kevin Dougherty
it's ah It's Arthur's daughter and i and his boyfriend.
00:38:22
Brandon
Yeah.
00:38:22
Kevin Dougherty
and
00:38:23
Brandon
And she finds out she's pregnant on the ship too.
00:38:23
Kevin Dougherty
and gen killed yeah
00:38:26
Brandon
So that's like another.
00:38:26
Kevin Dougherty
And she kills her own father is what I mean.
00:38:29
Brandon
yes Yeah.
00:38:29
Kevin Dougherty
After after
00:38:30
Brandon
Yes. Yeah. You said Maggie.
00:38:31
Kevin Dougherty
after
00:38:32
Brandon
I just want to make like sure we're on the same page.
00:38:33
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, sorry.
00:38:35
Brandon
Yeah, she drowns She drowns him she finds out. Well, she finds out that he killed all those people.
00:38:41
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:38:41
Brandon
Isn't that when you find out definitively?
00:38:44
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, that's what you find out and that's when you find out that he definitively killed everyone and and why he did it.
00:38:44
Brandon
Or do they let you know before?
00:38:52
Brandon
Okay.
00:38:52
Kevin Dougherty
and that And that's because that's when you find out that the water's poisoned because he had just drank it and he died and that's when she kills him.
00:38:57
Brandon
Yeah.
00:39:00
Kevin Dougherty
and you know, she goes overboard, and then it jumps to nine months later because she's like so like nine months pregnant and like about to have her kid.
00:39:08
Brandon
Yeah, she had just found out she was pregnant, I guess. So, yeah, I think they they have it like on the ship.
00:39:12
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:39:15
Brandon
So I think that ah season two to season three is about 90 days, i think they say.
00:39:23
Kevin Dougherty
No, between two and three, it's nine months because she's full pregnant and she has the kid in the first season.
00:39:23
Brandon
I think they.
00:39:27
Brandon
Yeah, no, well, she hasn't given birth yet in the beginning of season three.
00:39:31
Kevin Dougherty
She does by the end of the third season.
00:39:33
Brandon
Yes, she does.
00:39:34
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, so that's why it's nine months later.
00:39:34
Brandon
Well, I wasn't sure how many months she was pregnant on the ship. Like she finds out, I think, I think they said it was six months because on the ship, she's not showing yet.
00:39:39
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, well.
00:39:45
Brandon
So regardless, between six and nine months later, ah they go from being on the ship to in the middle of the desert.
00:39:45
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, she's not showing at all. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:54
Brandon
And now Arthur is dead. Correct.
00:39:57
Kevin Dougherty
Correct.
00:39:57
Brandon
Are we on the same page?
00:39:57
Kevin Dougherty
And like, yes. And it's like some like, I'm not even sure where it was. Like if it was in the Middle East or in Africa somewhere.
00:40:07
Brandon
I believe it's in somewhere in africa
00:40:10
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I just know it was like out in the barren desert at an old Russian ah military base.
00:40:17
Brandon
Yeah, yeah. A Russian bunker, yeah, because they had a lot of operations out there.
00:40:20
Kevin Dougherty
hung Yeah.
00:40:23
Brandon
I'm thinking like somewhere in Central to Northern Africa. But just before moving on to Season 3, I just wanted to know your final thoughts on Season 2.
00:40:35
Brandon
like For example, did you think it was Arthur killing everybody from the very get-go? like Did you suspect him later? Did you think like... You know, did you think that Maggie actually did have a mole on the ship? Because, like, I let myself go. i was like, I have no idea who the fuck is doing this.
00:40:54
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I didn't either. I had no idea until the end either. So I thought it was really well done that way.
00:40:58
Brandon
Yeah, that was.
00:40:58
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:40:59
Brandon
Yeah, I mean, I'm talking shit about how ridiculous it is. But, like, it really was well done how they keep that. Because Arthur was probably the last person I suspected, to be honest with you.
00:41:10
Kevin Dougherty
yeah I thought she had a mole in there.
00:41:11
Brandon
you know i didn't think it was i didn't think it was the handicapped man and even though like there was that one guy who was like drunk and you know causing all this trouble and ah you know we should also point out that everyone dies on the ship but arthur is not responsible for all of the killing ah Because the handicica the big gigantic handicapped man, who I've actually seen him in other things before, he kills some of the ship's crew by like putting him in a chamber and depriving them of oxygen.
00:41:52
Brandon
And ah when they do, at the very end of season two, a SWAT team tracks down the ship. I think like Maggie finds out where the ship is and like alerts like Interpol.
00:42:04
Brandon
And a SWAT team swarms the ship and they gun down the mental patient. And he's not able to explain anything. So they think that it was this mental patient that actually murdered everyone. I just thought like before moving on to chapter three, I guess we should kind of like, you know, say that's how everything like ends up in season two. Am I missing anything?
00:42:32
Kevin Dougherty
No, that sounds about right.
00:42:33
Brandon
Yeah, I don't, I just wanted to, it's hard to explain exactly how everything goes down.
00:42:34
Kevin Dougherty
yeah. in
00:42:38
Brandon
You have to kind of see it, but like that was, so they kind of think that Arthur is dead, which he is, and that his research has ended.
00:42:51
Brandon
But then ah can you remember Arthur's daughter's name in the show? I'm just, I can't, I'm just calling her Arthur's daughter.
00:42:59
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, ah but that's what I've been calling her the whole time too.
00:43:03
Brandon
One thing i should point out at the...
00:43:04
Kevin Dougherty
Rachel. Rachel is her name.
00:43:06
Brandon
Yes, Rachel. At the very end of season two, you see Maggie go into the hospital... And she actually dresses up as a doctor, of course, and goes and finds Arthur's daughter, who is the only survivor from the ship. And she's about to kill his daughter.
00:43:29
Brandon
And like, I don't know, some kind of like, she's like, nah, I killed my own father. I realized he was a monster. And somehow the two of them develop a kinship. Yeah.
00:43:41
Brandon
Based on like, you know, she explains like, hey, I'm that psychotic person who framed your father for all the murders in season one. You're his daughter. I just found out you drowned your own father.
00:43:54
Brandon
We should team up and become research partners and continue all this. That is what happens, correct? Correct.
00:44:01
Kevin Dougherty
Is that what happened? I thought in the third season it was like, ah I don't think she knew that Maggie was going to be there because there i Maggie's back on in this research base.
00:44:11
Brandon
Stalking, yeah, maggie Maggie's stalking.
00:44:12
Kevin Dougherty
And this is like a therere this is when they're doing, ah you know, actually they fixed the problem where it's poisonous or at least they hope they did because now they have test subjects there now.
00:44:20
Brandon
Mm-hmm.
00:44:24
Brandon
Yeah, they're doing human trials, yep.
00:44:26
Kevin Dougherty
Newman trials, but it's again, it's very off the books, like illegal human trials.
00:44:33
Brandon
Yeah, I mean, and the whole thing is fucking illegal, yeah.
00:44:33
Kevin Dougherty
So these people aren't allowed to contact. Yeah, so these people aren't allowed to contact anybody on the outside.
00:44:36
Brandon
Yeah.
00:44:39
Kevin Dougherty
And I thought it was the... ah financier that brought Maggie back into the circle that like got her there as well and because they do not like I mean she's trying Maggie's trying to explain like hey like your father was a complete asshole or whatever and like try to be I didn't do this or like but like yeah they have an uneasy relationship and they have to trust each other by the very end of it because again the murderers have started again
00:44:46
Brandon
I think, yeah.
00:44:57
Brandon
ah
00:45:09
Brandon
but But Rachel brought... Rachel brought Maggie on board to the project. And this was in sub-Saharan Africa, apparently, and in an old Soviet bunker.
00:45:18
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:23
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:45:23
Brandon
So this was an old Soviet military installation that they kind of renovate and they have like, You know, they do human trial and all the humans that are like selected to be in the trial, they're all being compensated like really well.
00:45:38
Brandon
Like they all know that this is like a shady ass fucking thing, but they're like, they're getting paid like, you know, millions dollars to basically do this trial.
00:45:47
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:45:48
Brandon
but there's something kind of critical that we should mention that we missed. There's one person that Maggie kills in season one who is completely innocent of all these crimes. um He was, um I had seen him in something else called Drops of God. So I re I recognized him. He's this Japanese actor and ah Maggie and him had like a little bit of a relationship.
00:46:16
Brandon
And she knows he's totally innocent, innocent but he finds out that ah she was he finds out that she's the murderer and she kills him for self-preservation.
00:46:28
Brandon
But his father apparently is like this very wealthy and powerful Japanese businessman. And he's one of the people that's financing the projects in memory of his son.
00:46:42
Brandon
So that's something I had totally forgot about until you started bringing up people's backgrounds. So that's sort of something you have to, because really plays a part in season three.
00:46:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and they ah do flashbacks as well in season three to when Arthur was in prison.
00:47:00
Brandon
Hmm.
00:47:00
Kevin Dougherty
So it kind of makes you think, like, did he die season two for most of the series?
00:47:06
Brandon
yeah
00:47:07
Kevin Dougherty
And even though, like, she keeps, Rachel keeps, she keeps saying, reiterating that no, he's dead.
00:47:18
Kevin Dougherty
Like he's not alive. And like, but we keep seeing these flashbacks of like some secret admire when we find out that it's like the prison guard.
00:47:23
Brandon
yeah
00:47:25
Kevin Dougherty
And, uh, but the whole time people in the research base, uh, on in the desert now keep thinking it's Maggie doing the killings again, because they find out she was the one that was doing it in the first place.
00:47:40
Kevin Dougherty
Because the killings had started all over again. And so nobody trusts Maggie, even though she wasn't the killer in this one. And it was the prison guard from ah that was you know the secret admirer for um Arthur. So, yeah.
00:47:57
Kevin Dougherty
I thought that was kind of ridiculous with when you find out he was the killer.
00:48:02
Brandon
worst vetting in history.
00:48:03
Kevin Dougherty
all time Yeah. of her For a prison guard? Yeah. And I don't want to get into it.
00:48:08
Brandon
but for For pretty much everybody, like even the human trial people, like badly vetted.
00:48:12
Kevin Dougherty
Yes, yes. Well, he was one of the human trial people that ends up murdering everybody. thought, yeah.
00:48:20
Brandon
Oh yeah!
00:48:22
Kevin Dougherty
ah The part I really liked was when that plane had crashed and they go out there and like they blame it on like the one guy because he they think that like he killed the pilot and then he ends up dying.
00:48:33
Brandon
Oh, yeah. Well, that shit was mad suspect.
00:48:38
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, it was. And when the youth they show like what had happened where she shot the flare off in the inside the cabin and then ends up like going into into killing herself.
00:48:49
Kevin Dougherty
I thought that was so great because I was like, I was like, how did this happen?
00:48:51
Brandon
a
00:48:53
Kevin Dougherty
ah Did this guy really kill it? And then when they showed that part, I was like, oh, that was my favorite part of the
00:48:58
Brandon
Yeah. fuck I mean, there is a lot of good.
00:49:00
Kevin Dougherty
Because she panicked and like, yeah.
00:49:02
Brandon
Yeah. that I forgot. I would not have even remembered to mention that yet. That was really bad luck.
00:49:08
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, because he panics because he's sitting a plane crash.
00:49:09
Brandon
So what, what, when you describe that scene a little bit, cause I, I have it hazily. Like this was ah the pilot was trying to send out a signal flare, right?
00:49:20
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and like the the the whole thing was still... you know The roof was still on at that.
00:49:25
Brandon
Yeah, she did not.
00:49:26
Kevin Dougherty
Because they crashed in a sandstorm and they should crash in sandstorm.
00:49:27
Brandon
Yeah.
00:49:31
Kevin Dougherty
And the whole reason they go out there to so to get these people is because there was ah you know an SOS signal and they were like, well, if people go to rescue these people, they're going to find out about the base and they're going to find out what we're doing here.
00:49:42
Brandon
Yeah, and they're shady, yeah.
00:49:45
Kevin Dougherty
So when they...
00:49:45
Brandon
They want to know about our shady experiments.
00:49:48
Kevin Dougherty
so when they find the survivor, they kind of like lock him away instead of getting him help. And so he's panicking, and but like, yeah, he, he ends up getting murdered. Uh, and then when you find out what happened to her, she like, yeah, she had crashed.
00:50:02
Kevin Dougherty
She was like panicking and like, was like, Oh, I'll shoot this flare off. But the door was still closed. It like, it bounces off.
00:50:09
Brandon
So the cockpit the cockpit window was still down.
00:50:09
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:50:12
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:13
Brandon
And i she was disoriented.
00:50:16
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:50:16
Brandon
And she thought because like the storm, she, I guess, thought she had a clear line. as Yeah, that was really fucked up.
00:50:24
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:50:24
Brandon
Bad way to go. so for the po for the one survivor of that plane crash, it would he looked mad suspect.
00:50:25
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:50:34
Kevin Dougherty
yes so
00:50:34
Brandon
Like, you know what

Themes and Conclusion of Season 3

00:50:35
Brandon
I mean? Like, I could have seen my eye, I'd be like, yo. And I guess we should just go through, what did you think about the season three cast? I really liked it.
00:50:45
Kevin Dougherty
oh yeah i liked the cast in the in this season uh
00:50:47
Brandon
Like, they got, they had two mercenary security guards that were, like, real believable as, like, you know, these are the kind that, like, this is the proper security that you would have wanted for season two on the ship.
00:51:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:51:02
Brandon
Like, you know, obviously these guys were crazy mercenaries, but, yeah, they were well-paid, they were well-trained, but, you know, apparently not as well-trained as that one ah ex-prison security guard.
00:51:04
Kevin Dougherty
They were not fucking around. Yeah.
00:51:17
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:51:17
Brandon
shit
00:51:18
Kevin Dougherty
but I don't even want to get into the fucking nasty shit that he was doing with his fucking dad.
00:51:24
Brandon
Oh, yeah. i I don't think we really need to get into that.
00:51:25
Kevin Dougherty
That came out of fucking nowhere too. And I was like, dude, that was so unnecessary. You didn't need to do all that.
00:51:32
Brandon
Yeah, they just kind of threw that in.
00:51:32
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I
00:51:34
Brandon
like I was like, wow, that shit is fucking unnecessary.
00:51:37
Kevin Dougherty
thought it was real unnecessary as well.
00:51:41
Brandon
And I guess doesn't these a lot of these flashbacks, they take place like very at various different points on the globe, right? Because everybody is kind of from somewhere different. Like I think the majority were from like the EU and ah like, I guess in season three, it's the EU and Africa in the first season, they were from all over the world and the second, but in season three,
00:52:13
Brandon
I felt like the mercenaries were local to the area, it seemed like. And then you had the research the research team, and then you had the human trial team.
00:52:25
Brandon
So you kind of had three different groups of people.
00:52:29
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, they but um but for the flashback part, they were the only flashbacks that I remember were just him in prison.
00:52:29
Brandon
And
00:52:35
Kevin Dougherty
they didn't
00:52:35
Brandon
where was he in prison? In England, I believe? He was in he was in England in prison? Because the flashback scenes, there was like ah that one, like it kind of goes a little bit in depth as to like Arthur like has to shank somebody in prison.
00:52:42
Kevin Dougherty
Possibly.
00:52:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:52:53
Brandon
Like he has to survive. Like he, you know, he dealt, he deals with like, I mean, I wasn't even really going to get into it, but like there are, there is like an extended period of time that they show like Arthur having to learn the ropes in maximum security prison because, know,
00:53:12
Brandon
Arthur is his arrogant ass self and that doesn't go well in prison.
00:53:16
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, anything please.
00:53:17
Brandon
You know what mean? They're basically like, yeah, you're a bitch. You're not like Dr. Arthur, whatever the fuck. Like you're my bitch. You're going to do what I say. And like, you know, he has to kill people. And like, he got lucky with the guard because yeah, he's like writing. Doesn't he think like he's trying to have Maggie killed from inside prison?
00:53:37
Brandon
Um, Like he thinks the admirer is going to be a woman at first. Remember, like he thinks they're kind of like love letters, but like the guards just a really sick fuck.
00:53:42
Kevin Dougherty
Yes, yes.
00:53:47
Brandon
And, uh, you know, so there's that whole element too. And, uh, I was just curious as to what you thought about the cast in season three compared to the, uh, first, uh, season one and two, the previous seasons.
00:54:07
Kevin Dougherty
Well, I think the first season cast I think I probably liked the most, ah but I did like this cast.
00:54:11
Brandon
fast
00:54:13
Kevin Dougherty
like They were a little bit more believable than the some of the characters in season two, except except for the prison guard.
00:54:15
Brandon
I thought so too.
00:54:19
Brandon
Yeah.
00:54:24
Kevin Dougherty
I think he was the only outlier, and I thought it was kind of ridiculous that he was the secret of mine.
00:54:25
Brandon
Yeah.
00:54:27
Brandon
You thought he was the only outlier because i thought that the entire human trial team all seemed to be real sketchballs except for that one real religious kid.
00:54:40
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I mean, they were all scheduled, but they were they were all also like you know real desperate for the money, and like they had to stay through the whole trial to get the money, because the one guy, he was like, oh, it's for my son, which you find out he actually didn't have a son, and it was just him murdering the whole time.
00:54:40
Brandon
I think he was the American kid. That is true.
00:54:56
Brandon
Yeah.
00:55:00
Brandon
Yeah.
00:55:01
Kevin Dougherty
But like they all had like some backstory yes, was.
00:55:02
Brandon
People that were in financial desperation. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:05
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, so yeah they they weren't going to go through regular means to do it, so yeah, they were going to be weird. well The but one lady was like, yeah, I do these types of weird trial trials all the time, so
00:55:16
Brandon
Yeah, so that but see, that's the type of person you would want on there. Somebody that was just doing it for the money. and ah But like it seemed like they were really poorly vetted too. like you You wouldn't have brought somebody there that wasn't properly vetted like to the point where like you didn't find out that he was...
00:55:38
Brandon
a prison guard at the same facility that Arthur was. Then the other woman had like all these other sketchy, but like they were all fucking sketch balls. So like the vetting was just ridiculous.
00:55:47
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
00:55:49
Brandon
But like the reason that I keep going back to that is because they show camera footage of them vetting people.
00:55:50
Kevin Dougherty
But that's a
00:55:57
Brandon
Like in all the seasons, they make an emphasis that they tried to get the best of the best people. Based on the situation. And they did not do a good job of that.
00:56:08
Brandon
And I'm really glad that they fucked that up so bad.
00:56:11
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and it's like every season they don't, they have poorly.
00:56:11
Brandon
Sorry. Continue.
00:56:14
Kevin Dougherty
Do you think the whole, instead of calling it the head, it should have been called the poorly vetted?
00:56:20
Brandon
I would have said that, like, i thought the best title would have been Polaris, but like, I think that had been taken like several times.
00:56:28
Kevin Dougherty
And it wouldn't have made sense for the following up, followed up seasons either to call it all players if each one's not on, unless they were calling
00:56:28
Brandon
So.
00:56:35
Brandon
Well, if if it was like Polaris 1, Polaris 2, Polaris 3, because, yeah.
00:56:39
Kevin Dougherty
Flair is the boat. Flair is the desert base.
00:56:42
Brandon
Yeah, exactly. Spiders 2, Breeding Ground, you know what I mean? something so Something like that. But, you know, I know you mean, I think we talked about a little bit before doing the cast, like we both said, like, would you have thought to name this show The Head? And we both were like, nah.
00:57:02
Brandon
But anyway, going back to season three. So in the nitty gritty of it, you have these people doing the human trials. It turns out that like Arthur was correct, that this problem could have been fixed.
00:57:16
Kevin Dougherty
Yes. Yeah.
00:57:17
Brandon
And they did that.
00:57:17
Kevin Dougherty
And they, and they fix it by the end. Like it's where it works. They find out.
00:57:22
Brandon
Totally. Yeah. so Arthur did not need to murder everyone on the boat.
00:57:23
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:57:25
Kevin Dougherty
ah promising to do Yeah.
00:57:26
Brandon
Like you said, you're...
00:57:27
Kevin Dougherty
It did help. I mean, the flashbacks for the prison hit it did help explain like how he kind of becomes a murderer, you know, because he had a, he had to murder somebody in prison to get, to get what he wanted to do.
00:57:33
Brandon
Yeah.
00:57:37
Brandon
That's true. Yeah, that's true.
00:57:38
Kevin Dougherty
So that part helped a little bit, but yeah, he didn't need to kill anybody on the boat to begin with on season two.
00:57:45
Brandon
Doesn't he kill his own cellmate in prison? Isn't that the guy who he's charged?
00:57:49
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yes, yes. So he can get like a cell phone to use or whatever.
00:57:51
Brandon
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:54
Kevin Dougherty
But yeah, so and like while he's off killing people and like they're blaming her for it and like everything's like gone to shit and like Maggie helps like Rachel deliver her baby even though she still doesn't trust her.
00:58:10
Kevin Dougherty
And like, yeah, it's it's it gets a little lot ridiculous. I think the third season, I thought the killer was probably the most ridiculous. Just because, i like he wasn't real I wish it was somebody that was more related to the first two seasons.
00:58:19
Brandon
I agree.
00:58:25
Kevin Dougherty
Or even if it was, like, the but dad ah that of the kid who Maggie killed that you were talking about that was innocent. it was like Even if it was, like, him had paid somebody in there or or hired somebody to kill these people...
00:58:34
Brandon
Yeah.
00:58:40
Kevin Dougherty
or some type of relationship that way, ah kind of have been tied back to kind of the first season, I think would have been a little bit better instead of introducing this new character as of this crazy prison guard guy.
00:58:42
Brandon
Yeah.
00:58:52
Brandon
I thought it could have been Noah.
00:58:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
00:58:54
Brandon
That was one suspect I had um in my mind that like maybe Noah had come back.
00:58:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:59:00
Brandon
um Because one thing ah that season three had that like ah kind of struck me was that this person obviously um they started doing like these elaborate things to sabotage them. Like they were out like there was a lot of desperation by the end of season three.
00:59:20
Brandon
Their food source had been cut. um they sabotaged like their water supply somehow. like Again, this is totally ridiculous how they wouldn't have like ah backup like endless supply of water out there. like But like somehow like this person, um they're all at the end like worried about like dying of like dehydration and shit like that.
00:59:42
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, because they there's a set plan for when the helicopters to come back to pick them up. so And there's no way out of, like, you can't walk out of the desert here.
00:59:53
Brandon
No.
00:59:53
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:59:54
Brandon
Again, yeah. there are yeah there
00:59:56
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
00:59:56
Brandon
i you could I think they tried to drive out. There was a road where you could drive out, but even when they drove out, they made a point
01:00:01
Kevin Dougherty
yeah They sabotage the truck.
01:00:06
Brandon
that they had extra gas canisters in the truck because no one ah tank of fuel would get you out of there.
01:00:06
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:00:14
Brandon
So like, they really show you how, ah like, that's one thing that all three seasons I thought did very, very well is they gave you a sense of intense isolation from everyone.
01:00:27
Kevin Dougherty
Yes.
01:00:28
Brandon
Like you knew if you were at this place, nobody was coming to help you.
01:00:29
Kevin Dougherty
Should have been called Isolation. Yeah. Yeah. The series should have been called Isolation.
01:00:33
Brandon
Like,
01:00:36
Brandon
I just found out there was a movie called Isolation in 2005 starring John Lynch. I thought it was on the same IMDb page. The trailer was on the same IMDb page as the head.
01:00:45
Kevin Dougherty
Was that the guy who plays Archer?
01:00:47
Brandon
Yeah.
01:00:48
Kevin Dougherty
Oh, wow.

Final Thoughts and Series Impact

01:00:48
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:49
Brandon
was on So i was I was thinking, I was like, damn, dude, I was like, the head trailer is really badass. They did a great job. Like, I don't even remember most of this shit.
01:00:59
Brandon
But yeah, it was called like, so like, I guess John Lynch, like they saw that, like, they knew John Lynch was into that type of shit. So oh they're like, but yeah, that's one thing they did really well.
01:01:05
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
01:01:10
Kevin Dougherty
I can't wait for you to watch it and then come back and tell me that it was secret it's been a prequel to The Head the whole time. Yeah.
01:01:17
Brandon
I don't, I mean, it's yeah, I mean, that was the one thing I really liked. I liked the isolation. i really, as ridiculous as all the cast was with the vetting and stuff like that, I thought that was great. um
01:01:36
Kevin Dougherty
think the story in general was really fun like you said and uh
01:01:36
Brandon
We were thinking about Yeah, yeah really really fun.
01:01:40
Kevin Dougherty
ah
01:01:41
Brandon
We were talking about like should we get in the individual kills that we liked the most? But for me, like it really wasn't about the kills. And they didn't show like the kills very graphic while they were happening.
01:01:53
Brandon
You saw like more of the aftermath.
01:01:56
Kevin Dougherty
yeah sure
01:01:57
Brandon
But what struck me was at the very end of season three, I did not think that um Rachel was going to die.
01:02:08
Brandon
I didn't see that coming.
01:02:10
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I didn't hear it.
01:02:10
Brandon
I didn't see Maggie as being, again, the only survivor except for Rachel's baby.
01:02:17
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. And now he's got to like, yeah.
01:02:18
Brandon
And we get an appearance from Noah again.
01:02:23
Brandon
who we don't really see until like, I guess ah the time you see Noah, I think there was a court flashback of Noah in the courtroom and he's reading Maggie's reaction to when um the decision is being read by the jury of guilty.
01:02:44
Brandon
He sees Maggie. He sees Arthur. He sees like a exchange they give him. And then there's like this one moment where you see Noah looking at Maggie, like really eyeing her down.
01:02:56
Brandon
And like, you could see the gears are turning in his head and he's like, something's not fucking right here. Like something's not right here. So they don't show it, but you can tell he obviously goes on to like some kind of path to like avenge his wife.
01:03:13
Brandon
like off camera, he's doing research because he, he somehow is part of that retrieval team in Africa. So yeah, you don't really know about that, but um yeah, I mean, what did you think about the ending?
01:03:31
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I mean, again, not my ah favorite of the three seasons.
01:03:35
Brandon
Nah.
01:03:36
Kevin Dougherty
I think the first season was the best. But like you said, I think it's all worth watching. It's a fun time. There are only six episodes, which is something we didn't mention.
01:03:42
Brandon
Yeah.
01:03:44
Kevin Dougherty
So it's only six episodes a season, and they're like maybe an hour each episode. So you can go through pretty quickly. Yeah.
01:03:52
Brandon
And they all take place like pretty much right after.
01:03:52
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:03:54
Brandon
so So it's like real easy continuity, you know what mean? You can, they're right after.
01:03:59
Kevin Dougherty
yeah Yeah, it's not next day, but yeah, it's only like a few months for the first one and then or like a year for the first one and then yeah, whatever.
01:04:04
Brandon
Yeah. Yep.
01:04:08
Kevin Dougherty
ah Yeah, Yeah.
01:04:08
Brandon
Yeah, I think it was like โ€“ I think, yeah, like you said, it was like six six to nine months and then six to nine months. So like the spacing was very good ah and I'm trying to think like did we miss like anything like huge, like Yellow Jackets, like the coach, like we forgot to mention him setting the cabin on fire or yeah like โ€“
01:04:14
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
01:04:27
Kevin Dougherty
I mean, we forgot to mention Yellow Jackets Season 3 and all together, but
01:04:31
Brandon
yeah Yeah, we're going to talk about that.
01:04:32
Kevin Dougherty
so
01:04:35
Brandon
But, you know, I'm trying to think if there was anything huge because it's just like with so many like little subplots and sidebars, it's impossible. You know, we just it's been an hour and we've gone through all three seasons.
01:04:49
Brandon
And yeah, I mean, I can't think of like any other like major topic that we missed here, but.
01:04:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, those are just like the, I mean, we didn't get into all the different names the characters and they're all their backstory.
01:05:01
Brandon
Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:05:02
Kevin Dougherty
But yeah, there was too much.
01:05:02
Brandon
There was like that whole torture sequence that I thought was kind of weird that I wasn't expecting where they have to torture that woman.
01:05:03
Kevin Dougherty
time really Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:07
Kevin Dougherty
yeah
01:05:10
Brandon
Like, all I can say is if you're a fan of sci-fi horror and like you don't mind like some of the absurdities, this is really a fun ride.
01:05:20
Brandon
And I was telling you the thing I probably like least about the head is that there's no more head.
01:05:26
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, that's true.
01:05:27
Brandon
That didn't really sound right. But like, you know, I mean, it's just like I really could have used like because at the end of season three, you see Noah pull down his hood and you see Maggie and she's doing the exact same thing.
01:05:44
Brandon
She did in the beginning of season one where you find her, everyone else is dead. And the only difference is she's holding a baby and Noah again discovers her.
01:05:55
Brandon
And i think his words are, who are you going to blame it on this time, Maggie? And she's like, Oh fuck, but I had nothing to do with the killings.
01:06:02
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:06:03
Brandon
This time I didn't murder anyone.
01:06:06
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:06:07
Brandon
And so like, there's like a lot of room for there to be like more head. And there is no more and I'm unhappy about it.
01:06:13
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah. but But I mean, at least they like went through the of the whole process of you know the algae, and where at the end they've fixed the problem and it's good to use now.
01:06:19
Brandon
Yeah.
01:06:25
Brandon
Yeah.
01:06:28
Brandon
Yeah.
01:06:28
Kevin Dougherty
But yeah, they they do leave ah some other things kind of you know for the up to the imagination of the viewers.
01:06:35
Brandon
because Yeah, because I think Maggie is left with the only viable sample of the algae because there was the one saboteur, but they died in the explosion. So Maggie's there sitting with the only like ah viable sample of like what this whole goddamn thing has been about. So there's like a lot of room where like Maggie could have been like broken out of of prison or...
01:07:02
Brandon
You know, like maybe like Maggie, like explains her way out of it or whatever. Like, i don't know. But like, yeah, I was just really sorry to see it go because it was like a lot of fun for me. You know, it was just like something like, i like I said, I let my mind go.
01:07:17
Brandon
i had no idea who the fuck the killer was in any of the three seasons.
01:07:21
Kevin Dougherty
Neither did
01:07:22
Brandon
And, yeah, I mean, so, yeah, The Head, season one, two, and three is available on HBO. I highly advise you check it out if you just want a fun time.
01:07:34
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:07:34
Brandon
And, you know, hopefully...
01:07:35
Kevin Dougherty
hopefully you've already ah Hopefully you've already watched it before getting this far in this cast.
01:07:41
Brandon
I see. I feel like a lot of people that might listen to this cast, like will probably be like, what the fuck is that? You know and I mean? Because like, like we said, we were talking about, like, should we do spoilers?
01:07:48
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah.
01:07:52
Brandon
Because this has been like, so like poorly promoted. But like, at the same time, like, I just wanted it to like, raise some awareness to this gem in the rough. Like, you know, I think a lot of the people are going to, you know, go through and just like, this is going to be one that they just missed.
01:08:09
Brandon
And I think that's really a shame because I think the quality was there. So any final thoughts?
01:08:13
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, me too.
01:08:17
Kevin Dougherty
No, that's all I've got. Thanks for joining me, Keck. And thanks everyone for listening. And we will be back soon with ah hopefully Yellowjackets Season 3. And I know Dexter's on Air Resurrection now.
01:08:33
Kevin Dougherty
We'll definitely be talking about that. And I know you had a...
01:08:36
Brandon
It's been very well received.
01:08:37
Kevin Dougherty
Yes, and you had a recommendation to me. ah What was it? Lost Kingdom?
01:08:43
Brandon
ah No, it's just it's just called The Kingdom. It's a a zombie like apocalyptic movie that takes place in ah eight ah the 1800s Korea.
01:08:46
Kevin Dougherty
Kingdom, okay.
01:08:56
Brandon
And yeah yeah, I had recommended that. That was one we somehow missed as well because that was really well done. So... ah We're probably going to be talking about that in our, I guess you wouldn't say retro, but like our throwbacks, like the the the ones that like got through the cracks and that, that, that was a gem.
01:09:15
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, and that's on on That's on Netflix as well, I believe.
01:09:19
Brandon
Is it still on Netflix? I guess it does it depend on your region.
01:09:23
Kevin Dougherty
I don't know where it aired originally, so...
01:09:25
Brandon
Yeah.
01:09:26
Kevin Dougherty
But I believe... in Yeah, we're in the U.S. I'm only going to talk about U.S. Netflix.
01:09:32
Brandon
Yeah.
01:09:32
Kevin Dougherty
But I believe it's on Netflix. So...
01:09:34
Brandon
i think I think it is too. Yeah, it's called The Kingdom. ah really great um Really great show if you're into, like, ah if you're a fan of The Walking Dead and you want to see instead of battling zombies with guns, you just have, like, armies of fucking people with samurai swords, that's for you.
01:09:57
Kevin Dougherty
Yeah, I'm going to check it out.
01:09:57
Brandon
You know? It's like a deal.
01:09:58
Kevin Dougherty
ah Yeah, we'll get to it. Watch it. It's a good recommendation. I mean, I thought the head was great, and that was something that went over my head.
01:10:05
Brandon
Yeah.
01:10:07
Kevin Dougherty
so
01:10:08
Brandon
Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I'm going to check out isolation. There is actually a movie called isolation with John Lynch. She played Arthur. It ah was in 2005. And for some reason it's the running trailer for the head on the IMDB page.
01:10:24
Brandon
And so I literally just discovered it five minutes before doing this cast. I'm going to check that out as well, but ah thank you for joining us and everybody. Good night and good luck.
01:10:35
Kevin Dougherty
Good night. Peace.