Transcript
Kevin Dougherty: All right. Welcome back to Fright Central. I'm Doc back here again with Keck. And we're going to talk about severance today. We don't know if we've already...
Kevin Dougherty: covered, uh, yellow jackets season three. I still haven't looked at that yet.
KEck: Oh, yeah. that There is like a big mystery about that, right? That...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: ah
Kevin Dougherty: So we, we either have done it or we haven't, uh, not really sure. so ah
KEck: Yeah, that doesn't really say like very good things about us. You probably shouldn't have mentioned that at all. um
Kevin Dougherty: but
KEck: But, you know, we've been like leading like um very active lives and we've both been having our own challenges recently. And, you know, it's made it difficult for us to shit, man. I mean, we we don't really get to like have many like normal conversations, let alone like podcasting.
KEck: Things have just been like really busy and wild for both of us lately. So, you know, you kind of get lost in that. I remember talking about Yellow Jacket season three in length with you.
KEck: I just can't remember if we did it over a podcast or not. Because essentially what these casts are is just our discussion and you either want to hear it or you can fuck off.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: So, you know and I mean?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: um But ah yeah, I mean, we'll, I mean, we're going to find out within like a day or two, whether or not we did it just going back. But, you know, obviously if we haven't talked about yellow jackets, we will revisit that subject because there was a lot to Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah or Or we recorded it. Yeah, or i record it and then just forgot to post it because that happens.
KEck: That is also a possibility. You with your goddamn crazy desert orgies that you've been going to. You know what I mean? How many girls have you fucked at?
KEck: Fucking. ah But ah yeah. So at any rate, ah before getting into ah season two of Severance, um I'm actually glad that we waited so long to do Severance since I've had a little bit more time to digest it and hear other people's opinions.
KEck: But before we get into all that, you had said that you had, quote, big news, not a lot of news, but big news. Could you talk about that big news?
Kevin Dougherty: Yes. Well, first we'll start with the Jason news. ah So there's an official short film that Mike P. Nelson, who did a Wrong Turn, and he's doing ah the upcoming Silent Night Deadly Night reboot.
Kevin Dougherty: They're doing a a short called a Sweet Revenge.
KEck: Exactly.
Kevin Dougherty: And it's going to be like the centerpiece of the franchise's bold 45th anniversary campaign. So began production earlier this month and is set to debut on the Jason Universe YouTube channel and through the hosted site Angry Orchard Hard Cider.
Kevin Dougherty: You know, I guess they're one of the sponsors. that are doing it. So um yeah, that'll be the first official thing we get Friday 13th coming out in years, even if it's only like a short film.
Kevin Dougherty: I think that's still ah so pretty cool. We'll see that goes.
KEck: Yeah, I mean, we talked about the one video game and ah then like some references, but I think we were saying the only other major ah well game that was ever was the original Nintendo game.
KEck: ah Friday the 13th, which was... ah Still, I mean, i love that fucking game. I can still play that shit. ah um But, yeah, I mean, it just hasn't been represented at all. And we were saying that, like, there's whole generations now that, like, you say Jason Voorhees, and they're like...
KEck: Uh, that, like, hockey mask guy? Maybe? And, like, it's just like, oh, man. Seriously? Like, fuck. So, this has to happen.
KEck: What's the news, Kev?
Kevin Dougherty: ah The news for Crystal Lake is that it has officially begun production as of June 20th.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: So they've started filming under the title Mama's Boy.
KEck: What?
Kevin Dougherty: You know how like they always have like the production title, so people don't like...
KEck: Oh, oh, oh, well, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
KEck: Mama's boy. Yeah. Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, that's that's what...
KEck: I'm sorry. I had a brain fart there for a second. That makes the most sense out of anything I've ever heard.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: So that's awesome. So they, so they are filming now. Has there been, um, has there been uh, full release of the cast members?
Kevin Dougherty: I can tell you we've got Linda Cardellini as Mrs. Voorhees.
KEck: I knew, i knew that that, but that was pretty much the only confirmed. Well, there was one other confirmed.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. There's a couple other ones. William Catlick from Abigail Cameron Skodens from Nashville and Devin Kessler from Godfather of Harlem and Gwendolyn Sudstrom Devin Kessler
KEck: yeah
KEck: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Go back. who Who was that from Godfather of Harlem? I'm actually watching that show right now.
KEck: i don't I would need to know the character they play, but I'm actually watching that show right now. It's really good. um
Kevin Dougherty: okay oh that was that was it
KEck: I'm sorry. Go on. That was it. But see, that that was like one of my main...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: like That gave me like one of the ah biggest anxieties about it was that like all this talk about like you know how they're all set, they're about to begin production.
KEck: But like I hadn't seen like any serious cast release. I had only seen like some rumored names, and then like there was like a couple confirmed names, but... like It's just not a good sign if you can't even release like a list of people that you've hired to work on the project.
KEck: So, I mean, i guess that's good. I still have no anticipation that this is ever going to come out.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, it's being filmed, so it's not the right direction.
KEck: I believe that it is being filmed. I just don't believe that it will ever be released. something will happen.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And you guys have like a Jeopardy bell go off in your room?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, something went off. I don't know what it was from.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: It's like, du du du um, but, uh, what's McCall. Yeah. I just do not. Um, I have no confidence that this will happen. Like, I think that this whole fucking thing is cursed. And like, I know that sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I really do believe in the curse of this.
KEck: Um, these motherfuckers,
Kevin Dougherty: would you say the curse of Crystal Lake?
KEck: Yeah, well, no, well it's kind of the curse of like two fucking assholes that just could not come to like rational understanding.
Kevin Dougherty: if
KEck: Like I was talking to our friend Minor, who's been on this cast before, and like we were talking about how like normal, rational, even killed people.
KEck: can pretty much come to an understanding if they are that. Just like rational people that like can understand that they can put their differences aside for a greater good, whether or not it's producing more Friday the 13th content, or if it's just about like unit cohesion in like your group of friends or in the military, whatever. Like if you have to have a working relationship with somebody, rational people can come together. And the fact that these two fuckers have not, and now there's so many other factors with the,
KEck: lawyers and all bunch of people trying to pick away at it and get their piece of the pie. Like, it's just really disgusting. And I just don't think that there are rational people ah involved with this thing. I think that, um you know, the two main guys that were involved are egomaniacs, both of them.
KEck: And, ah you know, I don't know who's more to blame, but like, I feel that like, there's just so much tension, so much animosity out there that I think that this project is just fucking doomed.
KEck: And I think if something is produced, it's going to be extremely mediocre, like that project that you fund it.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, I mean, it is Brad Caleb Kane who's doing the um Welcome to Dairy, the It series as well.
KEck: I don't give a fuck what anybody's doing. I'm just saying they're going to fuck.
Kevin Dougherty: It's Peacock and A24. All
KEck: This ain't happening. This is never coming out.
Kevin Dougherty: right. Well, I mean, yeah, it could be terrible for all we know, but it is being filmed.
KEck: Crystal Lake is never going to be released. There's never going to be a finished product that we say.
Kevin Dougherty: right, well, speaking of ah finished projects that we may or may not ever see, the big news is ah Holt McKinney, who played Bill Tench in Mindhunter, he had a meeting with ah David Fincher a few months ago, and he said that there's a chance that it may come back as three two-hour movies.
KEck: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: But he thinks that there's just a chance. He said, I know there are writers that are working,
KEck: So Fincher really, really does want to keep going with this.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes, yes. He said there are writers more that are working, but David has to be happy with the scripts first. But yeah, it could come back as
KEck: But that doesn't... If Fincher is really still interested in it, and he has the opportunity to bring back all the cast, because it looked like the actors, although they said that they had some psychological fatigue, and that is totally understandable, given the fact that like not only like was the show like extremely...
KEck: psychologically challenging, even for people that I know that like that type of content. It said it disturbed them, but they were doing like actual cases. You know, these are monsters that exist.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: So, you know what I mean? Like I can only imagine like, yeah, I can see the actor, but if he has the chance to bring back the original cast, Netflix actually seemed like they were like,
KEck: willing to talk about that. Why wouldn't they just have a third season?
Kevin Dougherty: He's been busy doing other things.
KEck: Yeah, but if they're going to make multiple movies and he can't make us a third season, like it it it would be, it would take less time to make multiple movies.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, he's saying, and
Kevin Dougherty: well, yeah, to make three two-hour movies would be once would basically be one season.
KEck: Yeah. To make three movies.
Kevin Dougherty: He's saying instead of, you know, I guess dragging it out into one season, you're basically getting three seasons, if you think about it.
KEck: i don't see i don't see that being dragged out. i I thought that the spacing between episodes and the season was one of its very like one of its strong suits.
Kevin Dougherty: No, no, no.
KEck: I thought it was done brilliantly.
Kevin Dougherty: I'm saying instead of having instead of having like a third season that only focuses on like one or two stories, we're going to get like basically three seasons or three stories, three different stories combined into two-hour movies.
KEck: I don't like that. I want a third season.
Kevin Dougherty: i'll take I'll take whatever that David Fincher wants to give us.
KEck: I don't. ah See, I won't take that.
Kevin Dougherty: And yes it probably takes less time to make two movies.
KEck: And the reason the reason is is I would rather him not do it. well Although what you said is you said David has to be happy with the script. So obviously he doesn't want it to suck.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: So, alright. Alright. He's obviously taken this really, really seriously. It sounds like he's got the same mindset. I just... I don't understand. Is... Did he give a reason why he wanted to go in the movie? He just feels that that would be a better way to continue it? Will these movies be on Netflix?
KEck: Because Netflix owns the rights, correct?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah That I don't know. I mean, i don't know when the last time it had aired either. So that those block rights could have even lapsed by the time that it even comes out.
KEck: the Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: But I think all that's still speculation right now.
KEck: All right.
Kevin Dougherty: He's just saying...
KEck: So there's a lot. There's a lot. So, yeah, yeah I mean, all right. I'm sorry. I'm getting a little bit buck wild ahead of myself.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, he's just saying this is just what he said.
KEck: You're saying he simply met with the actor. This was just two people talking.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah. And they said that they had like this, people were working on that. The writers were working on the scripts and Fincher was saying that like, if there's a chance that it's going to come back, it's going to come back as three, two hour movies.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: I think it's probably because maybe they have like so much story they want to tell and they don't think they'll be able to continue making more and more seasons. Cause like you said, it like,
Kevin Dougherty: that can be like a drag. So just make, you know, three movies out of it. And then you can kind of spread that out over time. Like you don't, like you don't have to shoot them all at once. You know what i mean?
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: You can shoot one movie and then another movie.
KEck: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: So then, uh, yeah, that's pretty much like it's, it'd probably be a lot easier to do it that way.
KEck: I don't know. I don't think it makes sense. But I mean...
Kevin Dougherty: You could spread that out over time. You know i mean He can shoot one movie, go off and do something else and then come back and shoot in another movie like a year later. you know what mean? and Instead of having to like, you know, lock everyone down for like once at a time.
KEck: I just think that will make people like lose interest. I don't, I don't get it. I don't get it. I think that you should just make it into a third season.
KEck: You know, if you want to make, uh, if you want to do it in like a movie format, like film all the movies and then cut it into a third season. That's what I would do.
KEck: Um, I just don't think that that really makes that much sense if you're going to do that. Like, I get it. He's got, like, other things going on. But, like, if he's saying that he wants this not to suck and he wants to make sure the script is real fucking solid, then he's obviously invested in this project. So why couldn't he just take the time to make a third season and not fucking say, I'm going to make a movie and then, you know, go and do a bunch of other projects and then I'll get to another movie in a year and then go do more projects. Like why not just get the cast together, ah talk to Netflix, hammer out a season and then move on from there. It could be the final season.
KEck: I don't, I just don't think it if they want to do like a final movie, like one movie,
Kevin Dougherty: Maybe he has
KEck: and have that like be like the wrap up. I can see that, you know, cause that's done a lot, you know, um, you'll get like, uh, you know, a season, a season, and then, you know, you get hit with, um, a movie like, and the movie's supposed to wrap everything up. I could see that a single movie, but I can't see him doing like one movie a year for like three years. That, I don't know. That's silly to me.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, that was just a guess. i' know I don't know if he would spray it out or shoot it all at once.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: That's just me fucking saying it.
KEck: Well, yeah. I mean, what we're talking about is, I mean, it's total speculation on a rumor ah based on a conversation that you're saying like, this was just like, did Fincher, well, let me understand ah correctly.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: So I'm not like, uh, just talking total ah nonsense. Um, did Fincher call this actor and say, Hey, I'd like to meet with you and run something by you.
KEck: Or did they just like meet by chance?
Kevin Dougherty: but The quote is just, I had a meeting with David Fincher in his office.
KEck: Okay. So Fincher contacted him and said, Hey, okay.
Kevin Dougherty: It could be either one. Either way, they had a meeting and in the office.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: Well, somebody, yeah. Well, they had a sit down.
Kevin Dougherty: Somebody got, I don't know who, they had to sit down in his office.
KEck: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes.
KEck: Yeah, that that that's what I was going for, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Wasn't the casual, like, wasn't the casual, oh, ran into him at a fucking lunch or something. Like, in his office.
KEck: Yeah, well, also, they could have been working on another project together, and, like, you know, I was wondering, like, did they just see each other and have lunch?
Kevin Dougherty: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
KEck: Like, you know, you were just, ah you know, ah portraying the scenario, or was it like, you know, they had, like, a scheduled meeting, and you said they had a scheduled meeting, so, you know, that is something real, so...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah. Like,
KEck: I'm wondering if ah Fincher – what would be interesting to find out is if Fincher has more of these meetings with other key cast members because obviously there's three cast members I think you need to bring back.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, main the main three.
KEck: ah The core three.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. yeah
KEck: um Well, actually, i mean, i can't think of his name. I want to say it was like Barney. He was the guy that did not get hired because their boss wanted his friend's son from Dortmund, who dortmouth who ah really wasn't qualified.
KEck: And they passed over. He was the black guy from Atlanta. Yeah. Like, I thought his character was fucking fantastic. So, I mean, I guess he doesn't have to come back, but, like, I thought, like, he added, like, an additional dynamic to the second season that was just really fucking fantastic.
KEck: Yeah. So, but like, yeah, so getting those four actors locked down, that would be fucking key for me. But like, obviously you need the core three, you know what I mean?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Unless you're going to like quit, like kill somebody off or something like that. But I don't know. Well, Hey, you know, it's good news, I guess, in the sense that like, it looks like something's happening. It's just really strange because Because Fincher and Netflix both said it was dead.
KEck: Like, they both said that, like, you know, it's not going to happen. Which was kind of rare, because usually they'll leave the door open, but after a years of speculation, when we talked about on the cast, they finally came to say, Manhunter is done, and...
KEck: I don't know. it It seems like it's a little bit of a tease to me at this point. I guess until we know more, but like you know when you say something's dead and then you resurrect it, I don't know.
KEck: I just...
Kevin Dougherty: maybe Maybe that when they had said it was dead, maybe it was like dead in its current form.
KEck: Yeah...
Kevin Dougherty: You know, it's dead as a series, but come back with the movie.
KEck: yeah Yeah, that's true. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: and you know, maybe I'm just being too much of an asshole about it. I don't know. It's just like we're talking about Friday the 13th and I'm real grumpy about that, but...
Kevin Dougherty: I brought you good news that Mindhunter... Yeah. I brought you good news that Mindhunter was coming back that they were working on it and all you could do is poop with it.
KEck: But they're not working on it.
Kevin Dougherty: They are.
KEck: They're not.
Kevin Dougherty: i mean, they're writing scripts.
KEck: They're writing scripts.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes. I know that there are writers that are working, but you know David has to be happy with the scripts.
KEck: Alright. Well, alright.
Kevin Dougherty: Scripts are being written. then they Then they go to David Fincher And be like, hey, do you like these? And then we either go, nope.
KEck: And it's the, do you know, um do you have any information about who's writing? Is it the original team that wrote the first seasons?
Kevin Dougherty: I would assume so. It just says there are writers. So it just says has confirmed that writers are finally working on scripts. It doesn't say No.
KEck: And nothing else about, like, ah him ah securing, like, the cast?
Kevin Dougherty: no
KEck: Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: It was, you gotta, I mean, you gotta to get scripts written first. So we're still in early writing phase, so.
KEck: All right. All right. Well, I don't I mean...
Kevin Dougherty: thought you'd be more excited about it, honestly.
KEck: i'm not um I'm not excited about it because I just don't really think it's going to happen. ah So, I mean, like, I don't think it's going to happen.
KEck: um
Kevin Dougherty: Negative over here.
KEck: Yeah, I'm very negative because they said it was dead.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: It's been, when was season two? Like, 2018? Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, wow.
KEck: Like, you know, it's like, and they, they teased on it for a few more years after season two saying like, oh yeah, you know, we're going to do this. Like,
KEck: Then, oh yeah, we've had some setbacks and then COVID came and yeah I get that. And then like they both said it was dead. Netflix and Fincher both said it was dead.
KEck: So I guess I just expected it to stay dead and now they're saying they're going to... I don't know. I could rant on about this all night. Like, yeah, I'm not happy about it.
KEck: not nothing Nothing you've told me has made me happy, Doc.
Kevin Dougherty: or
Kevin Dougherty: Great.
Kevin Dougherty: I have any exciting news that you just shit all over.
KEck: I have shit all over.
Kevin Dougherty: I'll just keep all the news to myself next time.
KEck: Hey, I'm a Debbie Downer. What can I say? i just, um you know, with with Friday the 13th and Mindhunter, it's, what is it?
Kevin Dougherty: the yeah Yeah, I believe so, yeah.
KEck: Is it Murphy's Law that set states that anything that can go wrong? initially or like eventually will go wrong is that murphy's law i believe yeah and that's just i mean that's just what i see being true with both of these because i mean i just could not see any reason that mind hunter uh season three didn't come out Um, except for the pandemic and, you know, I was hoping it would resume afterwards, but, uh, yeah, they say it was dead. Now they're saying, uh, whatever, fuck it.
KEck: If it happens, it happens, but I have no expectation that it will come or be good. I am very fucking negative.
Kevin Dougherty: Alright, well, go grab a water and I'll pause this real quick.
KEck: All right.
Kevin Dougherty: Alright, after that short break of Keck calming the fuck down over the news, let's talk about Severance.
KEck: Yeah, sorry. um i yeah I just started out punching holes in my walls. I had to calm down. I've been very aggressive. Yo, man, I've been working out and shit. Yeah, I lost like 30 pounds. So you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. um I fly off the handle. I'm a wild man now.
KEck: I don't know what to tell you, dude. Like I react real weird to certain shit. Like I'm taking all these like weird new medications. So like, forgive me if, uh, I say a little bit of crazy shit tonight.
KEck: Like, um, just not all there, but I'm trying my best. So we're going to talk some severance. Um, we've had like a while to stew on this,
KEck: Um, and I've heard a lot of other people talk about it and, uh, I've listened to several podcasts about it and, um, yeah, I mean, their opinions, the general opinions have all been very, very positive and I agree with that.
Kevin Dougherty: We're not going to any of that shit. We're going to spoil this, first of all.
KEck: I guess I just haven't like really – don't know. like Nothing like anybody has told me. every I guess what i'm was ah what I was getting at is all the opinions that I've heard, they haven't really been so much like analyzing the show –
KEck: it's been more about like predicting what's going to happen in season three. And I don't really like that. I I'd rather just talk about like the show, like what we know.
KEck: And, you know, if at the end you want to give, um, you know, what you think is going to happen, that's fine. But all, all the conversations that I've heard since the conclusion of season two, um,
KEck: have been all pretty much theorizing about what's going to happen in season three. And I just think that, like, that's sort of like a waste of energy. Why not, like, you know, talk more about, like, how fucking dope season two was and how it seemed to be...
KEck: And almost, even though a long time had taken place between season one and season two, I think they say about four months. I thought that like the transition was like nearly seamless, except for the introduction of that weird Asian girl that, uh, I can't figure out.
KEck: Um, but, uh, you know So we're just diving right in here.
Kevin Dougherty: She's on like a...
KEck: But um usually the way I like to start this is um to ask you your initial reaction, Season 2 Severance.
Kevin Dougherty: A fantastic season again as well.
KEck: Did you believe that the transition was seamless?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, because it was, I mean, in the show, you said you said it was four months. um That's in the show, but it was like actually a good two years between seasons.
KEck: Yeah, between seasons.
Kevin Dougherty: But yeah,
KEck: ah what i What I meant was that with certain shows, you can tell ah the difference between seasons. like The atmosphere is a little bit different. The writing might have changed. carog like For all I know, this could have all been filmed at the same time.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: That's what I meant by like the seamless transition. I felt like nothing had changed.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: All the original cast that needed to be there was all still assembled. They lost nobody. um I don't even think anybody of note got killed off, did they?
Kevin Dougherty: No, but John Turturro at the end does, you know, lead.
KEck: Well, yeah, well, that's, know, later at the end of the season, but I mean, I'm talking about ah from the first season into the second season.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, well.
KEck: i don't think anybody, like, got, like, that was in season one that was, like, an integral part of it. I don't think that, like, you know... How sometimes, like, ah for example, ah season 5 of 24.
KEck: How, like, I had never seen it before. And you're like, holy shit, they just killed off, like, half of my favorite characters in the first five minutes, you know?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, like, yeah, like,
KEck: There was nothing like that. At first, I thought Patricia Arquette was going to get whacked. But, like, she obviously saw the whacking coming. And, you know, she made her moves.
KEck: But, um... Yeah, I mean, my initial reaction was just like, you know, but just like that. I was like, wow, seamless transition. The writing has seemed to somehow get even better than it already was.
KEck: This story, which I was afraid might fall a little bit flat because I had such high expectations based on the caliber of the acting, the storytelling, and like just the overall production of the first season.
KEck: i thought like you know there's going to be a little bit decline. I didn't see any decline. Like, it was as good, if not maybe, dare I say, even better.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, I mean, they've
KEck: um as there's so many more... There's just... I mean, I had a private conversation with you last night that will discuss a little bit more in detail about, like, shit that I wasn't even sure about and I found out you weren't even sure about. So um yeah the the writing seems to just be able to somehow...
KEck: take these really complex ideas, a story that so many other writers and directors would have loved to put on ah the screen, and not just about this topic of severance, but like, you know, any picture that they might direct, but they would literally feel that it would be way too ambitious and overwhelming Because, you know, to have such complex ideas like Severance does takes a fucking masterful writing team and a masterful director that's able to incorporate it exactly the way it needs to be.
KEck: And Severance, that crew just makes it look fucking easy. And I'm like whole like, seriously, even though there's all this complex, chaotic shit going on, do you feel like you're totally lost?
KEck: Because I don't at all.
Kevin Dougherty: No, I mean, I mean,
KEck: Like, I feel like I understand everything that's going on.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, that the way they unfolded to you you learn a little bit more each episode without getting, like, you know, a story dumped on you at all at once.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: It's, like, slowly revealed to you. And even, not like, if it's not something that they, like, the characters themselves say or the story, like, you'll see it in, like, the way it was, like, the cinematography and, like, the editing and things like that are, like, little clues and stuff to, like...
KEck: Yeah.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: you know show you the way and shit.
KEck: But it's not such a slow reveal though, is it?
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, there was still...
KEck: I mean, i see what you're saying. Like they, you know, but like there's so much complex complexity that they, it seems like every episode they roll out like a lot more like new,
KEck: i I hate to keep using the word complexity, but that's just what comes to mind. Like new concepts, new subject matter like rapidly, but in such a way, you're just able to perceive and comprehend it.
Kevin Dougherty: Thank you.
KEck: Like when I say like, I don't feel like I'm lost at all. What I mean is that like, I know there's tons of shit that like, I don't know what's going on, but in terms of like what the characters know and everything that has been told to us so far, like,
KEck: I totally feel like I comprehend everything. And, you know, compared to other shows that have tried or movies that have tried to do a fraction of what Severance has done, like a lot of them have just crashed and burned or failed. And you're just like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Like, you know, like David Lynch, I think should, well, is David Lynch still available?
Kevin Dougherty: No, he passed away.
KEck: Okay, well, you know, if he ever becomes available again, um you know, he he could have taken a page from this, um I think.
Kevin Dougherty: You talk about that, yeah. No, he's permanently on the...
Kevin Dougherty: he his his work was always more about being ah more artful and being left up to interpretation and not necessarily, you know, a specific way to do it.
KEck: That's true.
Kevin Dougherty: But yes, this is a very lynching show, but it does like it does explain more things.
KEck: That's true.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: But it also, I feel like, leaves enough open... to too for like the interpretation of stuff of like how things are in that world
KEck: But you had told me that you think that everything that's happening is very elaborate. you Especially you were saying you were a little bit obsessed with pineapple bobbing, which I didn't even know what you were talking about at first.
KEck: I guess maybe I just missed that scene. Like where they're showing like the fun activities, like pineapple bobbing. And like you were, and I was like, yeah, that's just like some buck wild shit.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah and and
KEck: And you were like, no, no, no, no. They're doing that. That's very elaborate. Like that's going to be a thing. Pineapple bobbing. And I was just like, all right. So like, you know, from what you told me, I then thought of it and I was like,
KEck: Yeah, I mean, i guess they could go either way with that. Like, I don't know. It could just be like half of it could be like weird, like disinformation to intentionally fuck with the employees.
KEck: Or, you know, it could all be like totally like, you know, like very elaborate. I mean, I haven't seen them Pineapple Bob, though.
Kevin Dougherty: No, it was just them talking about it.
KEck: It was the animation, right?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. And it was like the weird things like that. It was kind of a...
KEck: Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: ah when i was ah you know When I dove a little bit deeper into the show, it was like um that's what like though those rich corporate people would think that that's what the employees would do for fun on the outside without ever like...
Kevin Dougherty: you know Because they're in like their super elite kind of like circle...
KEck: ah Like the Matrix, when they were talking about how like the Matrix wouldn't know what chicken tastes like. So it tried to like guess what chicken would taste like and it tried to guess at what people would want their lives to be like in that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yeah, yeah, sort of.
Kevin Dougherty: To help them be, you know, ah for the innies, and for like, for them to help them motivate them.
KEck: Yeah, yeah. For the enemies, exactly.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, like, it's almost like having, you know, you know having a pizza party or whatever, but like they would have a waffle party. and but like their waffle parties would be like the weird fucking like sex fucking orgies that like, cause that's what they do.
KEck: Or, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: You know, you know what mean? It's very eyes wide shut. Like it's like, it's like, because they're rich and it's like, Oh yeah, this is, this is what we do. Like, so it's like, they want waffles and fucking orgies.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Right. You know what I mean?
KEck: But you actually like, it would be, like, one thing if it was, like, a waffle party was just, like, codenamed for, like, hey, we're sending you to, like, this weird brothel, like, tonight.
Kevin Dougherty: Like,
Kevin Dougherty: No, you still get your waffle.
KEck: But, like, you go there and, like, you straight up get served waffles with, like, butter and, like, good-ass-looking maple syrup and shit.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Yeah. And i'm not going to sidebar too much on this, but like I just found out that like there was like a major robbery of Canadian maple syrup some years back where like hundreds of millions.
Kevin Dougherty: They made a whole series about it.
KEck: Oh, did they?
Kevin Dougherty: There's a TV series about it.
KEck: Oh, I didn't know that. But anyway, yeah, I didn't realize that like something like, like there's like a maple syrup, like national reserve and shit.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: Like it was like really fucking crazy.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: But ah anyway, yeah. Like, i mean, those were like good ass looking Belgian waffles. I was like, damn, that's heady. And, you know, I thought then they had the dancers come out like topless with masks and shit. And I was just like,
KEck: Damn. Like, but that's certainly a waffle party, but like, I mean, i don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's a real, like, it's a real mind fuck for the innies, man.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah absolutely yeah
KEck: Like, they don't, I don't understand why they do all that stuff and not just try to treat them like normal human beings. um you You would think that that might be more conducive.
KEck: But like like I said, there's so much that we don't know.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: you know This is obviously a fucking twisted science experiment. like Oh, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but I mean, Lumen in itself is kind of like this weird cult-like thing.
KEck: Yeah. yeah
Kevin Dougherty: So it's like, how would they know what a normal person fucking... Like, that's what they think is fucking normal. You know what I mean? It's like...
KEck: what
Kevin Dougherty: you know That's what I'm trying to say.
KEck: So you're saying that Lumen is like so full of like crazy rich and privileged fanatical like cultists that like that is what their lives are like.
Kevin Dougherty: Maybe not...
KEck: So they just assume that those employees would the like the things that they do regularly.
Kevin Dougherty: ah Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KEck: Is that what you're saying? Like...
Kevin Dougherty: i I mean, I wouldn't say that they're all rich, bit but like they all believe they all that cult like belief into what women is doing or wants to do.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Maybe those people had normal lives at some point. But I mean, if you look at the way. um Oh, God, what was her character's name? um
KEck: Howie?
Kevin Dougherty: No. God, I'm drawing a blank now, but. i
KEck: Which actor?
Kevin Dougherty: Jennifer Jason Leigh. Am I?
KEck: Jennifer Jason Leigh was in this?
Kevin Dougherty: No, I'm sorry. not just recently. Patricia Arquette.
KEck: Patricia Arquette?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, thank you. God, I just brain farted.
KEck: ah Mrs. – well, she had two names. I think one was like Mrs.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Colbert – or not Colbert. Begins with a say um Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Anyway, Patricia Arquette's character, were like, you find out that, like,
KEck: I can't think of it. I can't i can't think of it.
Kevin Dougherty: she was like raised within Lumen. You know i mean? So she's been with Lumen kind of since birth and you find out like like that whole severance system was her idea that Lumen stole. like And like, so then she's like going to get revenge now.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Cause she was like, you know, full belief system, part of Lumen. So like she grew up in that cult, you know what saying?
KEck: We don't know that much about the cult itself on the outside.
Kevin Dougherty: So no,
Kevin Dougherty: no No, we don't. You only get that.
KEck: Because even at that party at the end of season one that Hallie goes to when she finds out that she's Helen Egan...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Like that party didn't seem, i mean, when she met with her father, you could tell her father is a fucking warped crazed fucking individual.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yeah.
KEck: He's totally lost his mind. um But like based on like just the normal guests at the party, those were just like normal business people.
KEck: They didn't seem like fanatics.
Kevin Dougherty: Well, yeah, because that that was just a presentation for Severance.
KEck: Yeah.
KEck: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. For the technology.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes.
KEck: yeah Yeah, I get that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: But like, I'm just saying like the people that went there, like, um for example, they have like a saying like ah Helen Egan tells Seth at one point, Melchick.
KEck: um She says, you know, let the ah voice of care guide you or something like that. Like what I would like to see is what you're talking about.
KEck: I'd like to see a gathering of them outside of work, like the true believers. And I'd like to see what they talk about.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Like, like, I'd like to hear that, like, you know, do they, have like, do they get together? Is every time they get together, like, they all strip naked and start fucking each other and rolling around in rice pudding and shit like that?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: Like, you know what I mean?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, the only the only real ah interactions you get between the Lumen is more of an employee-loss relationship type thing, but you still get like their weird stories like when they go camping and like the stories of Lumen and the journey and shit like that.
KEck: Like...
KEck: Exactly. It's all institutionalized within the confines. Yeah.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: and like It's very fucking you know like almost like Scientology fucking like cult fucking...
KEck: Yeah.
KEck: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It really it bring it bring brought me to that.
Kevin Dougherty: It's like insane type of shit.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And I think about like um like like in the U.S. s today too. I mean we we have a cult of disinformation.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: of misinformation, of disinformation, of like, you know, just intentional lying and distortions of the truth. And, you know I don't want to get into like a political discussion, but it does kind of remind me of a particular movement that is taking hold in the country right now.
KEck: And, you know, I i see parallels be between those two and, you know, that scares the fucking shit out of me.
Kevin Dougherty: Yes.
KEck: But, uh, you know, it just reminded me of that when, um, cause I'm thinking like, how could you guys get so warped to believe in like this nonsense and like what, you know, to keep those people down there and how, and how even have these chips in there and you know I was trying to think of like what would have driven them to through this because these aren't like neural implants that like help people who are paralyzed walk again or you know what i mean that give you like some kind of exosensory perception.
KEck: Like they're just like severing person. And ah I'm trying to think of like where, um, you know, like where that type of, don't know, like what drive it would, like, what would drive them to do it in this kind of like very specific fashion, um,
KEck: with like the goats and like, it's just
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, like they're sacrificing goats.
KEck: Yeah, and we have no idea why, and I'm cool with that.
Kevin Dougherty: Like, yeah.
KEck: I don't want to know why.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: like I don't want to be like that discussion where people are trying to figure out what is going to be. I'm just trying to focus on what is right now.
KEck: You know what I mean?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
KEck: And what what I think about is like what is driving these people to do this. What drove them to keep... fucking, uh, you know, Adam Scott's wife alive.
KEck: Like why her specifically? And like, why would they go to such lengths to do that? And then to have her in the basement, do you know what i mean?
KEck: Like, i just want to know how strong this idea of care is that made them do that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah like
KEck: You know what I mean? I want to see their outside lives.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i can see that they're like obviously looking for like a uh you know um
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: you know, look kind of like the the perfect worker where you're not thinking about outside emotions or or anything like that. You're just focused on the one thing. Yeah, but like, yeah, like you, I'm like, okay, but why did they pick her out of anyone else?
Kevin Dougherty: Like, I understand why i am Scott's involved because of the connection with her and you can't do it without him.
KEck: yeah yeah Yeah, I get that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, i absolutely get that too.
KEck: but
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, shit, some of those rooms were fucking awful. Like, I would hate that fucking dentist one. Yeah. Or like the one where it's Christmas, but just the part where you're writing cards. ah think it Like, they were putting them in like terrible fucking like all the way.
KEck: Yeah. One thing... one thing
Kevin Dougherty: And it was just all right. And the last one was this the big.
KEck: Yeah. And having to deal with the music, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: that was Yeah. When the last one was the coal harbor, which we finally found out was just the crib. And it was just just to see if she would get an emotional reaction from, ah you know, not being able to have a baby or or losing the baby or whatever.
KEck: Yeah, that that that was that was tough.
Kevin Dougherty: mean Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: I mean, yeah, that that was tough. um But, I mean, there's also the factor that Patricia Arquette's character, um what was her name? Mrs. Sobel. he I think it was Sobel.
KEck: um But she has two names because she's also his neighbor, and so she goes by two aliases in the show.
Kevin Dougherty: but
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: And Melchick reveals to Adam Scott's character that ah she wanted to get him into some kind of twisted, severed thruple by like having, i guess, like intimate relations with him on the outside,
KEck: And having relations with him on the inside. So like both his innie and his outie. um He like you you don't recall what I'm talking about.
Kevin Dougherty: Are you talking about Halley or or cobell?
KEck: No, I'm talking about the conversation that Adam Scott had with Melchick in the first episode of season two, when Melchick is apologizing for what Cobell had done to the what had done to him and what she had done to Lumen.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And um he says, I understand that she was in ah your sister's home at the party. And he's like, yeah, ah that was weird.
KEck: Why was that? And that's what Melchick explains to him.
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yeah. i don't I think he was lying.
KEck: And he used the word thruple.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. yeah
KEck: Like he said, like she had a real twisted sexual interest in him. And that could have been one of the reasons why she selected his wife because she had ulterior motive With him, and I mean, she, you know, obviously was not playing with... I mean, she she had her own selfish motivations, is what I mean.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but I don't think...
KEck: um That went far beyond what Lumen was trying to do.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah I think Milchak was lying about that.
KEck: ah but Oh, really?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, i kind of I don't see...
KEck: Because seemed...
Kevin Dougherty: Because when you meet up with them later, you don't get that at all. ah You know...
KEck: I got from her that she was obsessed with him. So I don't think Milchak was lying.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah I didn't get that at all.
KEck: But yeah I could be wrong.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: We'll see. But like you seem to not remember. Maybe if you go back and see that because Lumen was unaware, at least they claim to be unaware that she was living right next door to him.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And they seem to be unaware that she had even had that alternate identity. like Like the way Milchak described it was that was news to them.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I think she was just keeping.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. I think she was just keeping watch on him on the outside as well.
KEck: Yeah, she was.
Kevin Dougherty: Because of previous thing. Yeah. I don't think she was trying to like, you know, get in a throuple with them. i don't think that was her motive at all.
KEck: that's what he said, and i took him at his word ah because she seemed obsessed with him.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah i the I mean you trust a fucking Lumen employee that lies to everybody about shit yeah I wouldn't trust that at all
KEck: Yeah, I don't know. I thought because Melchick seems like the one guy that actually does want the employees to be happy.
KEck: I mean, he's a sick fuck and everything because everybody that works at Lumen are sick fucks. except for the innies. And like, you know I mean? But like, he seems to like legitimately want them to be happy down there.
KEck: But at the same time, he's also like in charge of the break room, which is like a psychological torture fest. So yeah, there's just a lot of like contradictions where like, just when you think you have something figured out, you're like, but then they did that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And that's cool that they did that because I like it. That's really interesting, but also what the fuck.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I think...
KEck: And that is so unique about severance.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I think the only... i don't think he really gives us a shit about their happiness. I only think there was that change because they broke out. And, like, so...
KEck: Well, he wants the he wanted the board to be happy because you know he was appointed to that position.
Kevin Dougherty: so
Kevin Dougherty: Well, yeah. He wants to board again. Yeah. Yes, but I'm saying like he he doesn't i don't think he cares about the innies themselves being happy and like because he didn't care about that before until they had broke out.
Kevin Dougherty: And then like the whole changes were happening to kind of make the innies happy. So then he started to have to do these things for them and he was trying to make them happy.
KEck: Yeah, but he gets...
Kevin Dougherty: But it was all like, again, weird shit.
KEck: No, but he gets angry later on when ah when Helen Egan orders him to – I can't remember if it was her or if it was the board or somebody else.
KEck: But they said they wanted to take away all the perks that he had implemented. to give the employees like more incentives like how you know their conversations weren't going be recorded that they could freely wander from departments and talk to each other like you know at one point you see him like tearing things down and like kind of pounding his desk Because he's unhappy that like his ideas... and Now, I hear what you're saying. You're saying he doesn't like really give a fuck about them.
KEck: But I think he gives a fuck about his performance review.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: And he knows that like the only way he's going to be successful and get the respect that he seems to desperately crave. Because he does not feel to be an equal.
KEck: And ah I believe he wants everything to be running smoothly. And he believes that for things to run smoothly, morale needs to be as high as possible.
KEck: That's what I was trying to get at.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: And...
Kevin Dougherty: I'll agree with that. Yeah.
KEck: So I think he wants them to be happy for his own reasons. And i don't think he's necessarily a terrible guy.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: i mean, he seems to have moral convictions, but then at the same time, you have like the crazy oxymoron that works at Lumen.
KEck: So how the fuck? fuck can you be um person of morals or ethics or anything other than a cultist freak?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. yeah and To go back on your other thing, like the when you didn't understand the who the the the teenage Asian girl was, that you find out later with Cobell, she did an internship with Lumen so that's what what like at her age. So that's what that is.
Kevin Dougherty: So she's not severed. that That girl's not severed at all either. She's just there as part of doing an internship for Lumen. So she's lying in.
KEck: Yeah, I just don't know.
Kevin Dougherty: She's fought in. She's bought in early as well. You know what I mean? like ah There might be, yeah.
KEck: yeah I just don't know. I'm just going to go with I really don't feel like I know enough yet, and I'm just going to let it roll and see what happens. I think there might be more to it. Yeah.
KEck: ah i just don't I just don't really know. But the um the one topic that I really wanted to discuss is what we talked a little bit about last night. And that was, I was not sure if Helen... if I wasn't sure if I had missed something or if it was supposed to be readily apparent that...
KEck: Hallie R was actually Helen Egan as, um you know, spy in the beginning of um up until the reveal.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't.
KEck: Now, I did see Helen Egan. There's two things I wanted to just mention before I get your reaction to the whole thing. One thing was I did see Helen Egan watching a video about – well, she was watching the video that Milchak had put together where he says every employee will see this.
KEck: Every new Severed employee joining Lumen will see this video. And, you know, it shows the scene where they kiss. And then you see Helen Egan actually look for that footage.
KEck: And she sees the kiss between her innie and Adam Scott's character, whose name, for some reason, I can't remember. So I just keep calling him Adam Scott.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: But, um, whatchamacall, um, she sees that. So I did see her doing research.
Kevin Dougherty: mark
KEck: You know, she was monitoring what was happening. She was obviously getting to know her innie a little bit because like, you know, she previously had said, i don't even see my innie as a person.
KEck: You know what I mean? That was her regard. So I did see her doing research, but I had no idea that she was like a spy plant the entire time.
KEck: And the only other thing I wanted to mention, because I think that this is going to come up in the future because they did it too elaborately for it to um not have some significance, in my opinion.
KEck: You see Helen Egan at several times walk that long corridor. Do you know what I'm talking about? There's a scene at night.
KEck: They showed it several times where she is walking along a long transparent corridor that connects one part of the building to another part of the building.
Kevin Dougherty: Okay. Yeah. yeah
KEck: And they show her walking in stride. And at first I was like, And that kind of seems like an unnecessarily long amount of her just walking.
KEck: And it was totally silent. Nothing was going on. And then they showed it again. And I was just like, again, that seems kind of weird. And then I was thinking like...
KEck: When John Totoro finally sniffs her out, I was thinking at another point, she's obviously going to spy again.
KEck: That's going to happen. And I was wondering if they were showing her walking... ...as something that would be a tell.
KEck: You know what I mean?
Kevin Dougherty: Oh, yeah, I don't know.
KEck: As to... Because, you know, the innies and outies......seem to have......you know, they have the same traits......but, like, they're also total opposites......in so many different ways.
KEck: And I was wondering......if they were showcasing that. And then I was thinking, like......could Adam Scott......or one of the other characters... <unk>s already know that?
KEck: Could they have already seen that? And are they thinking like, I can tell now and they're keeping it silent. And is that going to be a thing?
KEck: And again, now I'm starting to get into what I said I didn't want to do about the future.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: But the reason I'm harping on this is because I can't understand why they would have, Uh, film those two shots and I could, uh, show you the clips later if you want to see what I'm talking about, if you can't remember, but I was thinking, why would they, go to such lengths to do that?
KEck: Because at one point, I think it's like 20 fucking, like a 20 second walk. And I'm like, what the fuck? So, and it was cool, you know, it was a glass transparent corridor.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: It was a really good scene. so i was like, all right, you know, that's a cool shot, but you know, it's kind of long. And then they did the whole thing again and she was walking back the other direction like a few seasons later.
KEck: And she was wearing the dress. So, you they were clearly showing, you know this is Helen Egan. This is how she walks. She struts around the place like she owns it because she basically does.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, it might have also just been a ah scale thing to show you how huge this this office is.
KEck: And it just made me think.
KEck: Yeah, but they did it, I don't know. It could be. It could be, but like I would think that one shot showing that scale would suffice, but they have returned to that same shot already.
KEck: At least one other time that I can remember. But anyway, that was my whole spiel. You were talking about how you also didn't know.
KEck: What was like your reaction to like all that? Like her plan?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I didn't i didn't ah go back. I haven't gone back and rewatched season two, so I don't know like ah how many hints or whatever are there.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: But yeah, I mean, there was definitely like suspicion ah that it could be her outie.
KEck: You were suspicious throughout that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but I was like,
KEck: So you were thinking she maybe was a plant.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, but I didn't know if she was the whole time or she was just kind of switching when she felt like.
KEck: Okay. Okay.
Kevin Dougherty: you know like There was like that type of thing. Because, yeah, like I do think when she saw that video, she like got jealous of like her innie being able to find this relationship in this office, which she obviously, her outie doesn't have like you know a relationship outside. So I think that was one of the reasons she was studying her innie was so that she can trick...
Kevin Dougherty: Mark, Adam, Scott's in it to have like a relationship.
KEck: Marked, yes.
Kevin Dougherty: you know Just kind of take over and have that relationship with him. and You know what I mean? Because she doesn't have that on the outside. so She was was looking for some action.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: So, and she did actually at one point confront Mark's out at a diner. And she's like, hey, you know, we've never like really officially met.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: So she was kind of, at that point, I was thinking like, damn, is she going for the throuple too? Because she did fuck him.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I think that...
KEck: as So she fucked him as his innie. And like, I was thinking like, is she going like to try to tap his Audi too?
Kevin Dougherty: Any.
KEck: Because that would, you know, what you were saying that goes in line with the whole like sexual deviancy that seems to be part of this whole cult like thing that we're just not really so aware of.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: But yeah, I guess the difference then, see I did not any point thing that how we r was helen e and at any point any point in that.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: You picked up on that. I did not. I didn't know at all.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I mean, there was just, like, some of the things, like, i mean, from when she, like, had lied, like, right away ah about, like, who her Adi was to the group, that I was like, alright, that's a little suspicious, but, like, at the same time, it's like, alright, I get it, because maybe they would use her to, like, you know, kidnap her, Annie, to be like, force them like, let them out or something.
KEck: Yeah, or at least have massive resentments that they could never forgive, you know?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so... But yeah, the her meeting Adam Scott on the outside, I think, was also to see if there was any chemistry between them on the outside, to she to see if she could start up a relationship with them on the outside.
Kevin Dougherty: But yeah, he was pretty much like...
KEck: Which would have been a sick fuck twist to throuple.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: have a severed throuple. That's what Milchak said.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah. well
Kevin Dougherty: But... No, because... I don't know how to explain it, but ah yeah. Anyway. oh
KEck: no. no what What was your thought?
Kevin Dougherty: Because if you think about it, when um remember when Dylan, ah his his wife...
KEck: Yeah. Who's a phenomenal actor that we have totally like skipped, by the way. Um, you know, i gotta tell you, I've seen him.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: Um, I first saw him in a very small part in the show succession. Um, and, uh, I was like, yeah, this is a guy I'm probably going to see again somewhere else.
KEck: Because, you know, he had, like, just a very small, like, 10-minute part. But I remember thinking, like, I'm going see him again. So when I saw him in Severance, I was just like, damn.
KEck: And, like, his character has been fucking fantastic.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: ah hes He's the one that takes us through the waffle party. We haven't really mentioned him. Sorry about that, Dylan. You're great, but...
Kevin Dougherty: yeah so when his wife goes to visit the innie and she kind of starts ah you know is kind of starting the relationship with him on the innie and his out he's pissed i would see that as a weird fucking throuple even though it's the
KEck: Oh, I forgot about that. Oh.
KEck: That's a throuple. Yeah, dude, I guess... ah Shit, now that you mention it, yeah, there's all kinds of severed throuple action going on.
Kevin Dougherty: Because if you think about it, Mark's not dating anybody on the outside. has a dead wife.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: So that's why i don't i don't get...
KEck: Well, he was... He did... Uh, date one girl for a little bit in season one. Uh, they were together a little bit and then, ah he basically just kind of flipped out on her cause he just wasn't over his wife and she kind of storms out and they don't see each other.
KEck: His sister had hooked her up, uh, hooked them up.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah Yeah, that's why that's why I don't see it. i mean, I can see the his has a relationship with Helen, then if she's trying to have it, that I don't see. as I it as a throuple, as almost like one person trying to have a relationship with the same person, but on both the Annie and Addy.
Kevin Dougherty: Or like, you're Mark having the innie relationship with Helen, that relationship, but his outies also trying to get his wife, who's, you know, part of the innie, out.
Kevin Dougherty: You know what mean? That's like ah that's like a throuple there. Because that's an even more complicated one.
KEck: I think we're getting a little bit too like ah to tune into like the whole throuple concept.
Kevin Dougherty: but
KEck: i mean you know
Kevin Dougherty: But if you think about it, there's a lot of that going on.
KEck: Well, yeah, I'm very, very aware of that.
Kevin Dougherty: But it's
KEck: um But, like, I mean, throuple relationship can be, like, a really beautiful thing. It's not like what it used to be, like, like you know, a menage a trois is a little bit different.
KEck: Like, you know, like, if it's, like, just, like, a throuple hookup, but, like, you can have, like, I mean, people that really love each other, like, they just, you know...
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: It's like a crew, you know what I mean? You're just together and it becomes normal. Like, but what they were doing.
Kevin Dougherty: But none of these struggles are like three people um on the on the outside or three people on the inside. It's like either an out or an in.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: You know what i mean? Like that's that's what makes it like.
KEck: Yeah. the
Kevin Dougherty: So the other one's not conscious of the other relationship.
KEck: and Exactly. So this is kind of like a rapey throuple on this.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: like and ah It's like ah a throuple where there is not active consent by all parties.
Kevin Dougherty: From.
KEck: So...
Kevin Dougherty: From the full brain, or almost.
KEck: Yeah, so it's like a really twisted thing, and it seems that, yeah, like Arquette and ah Egan and...
Kevin Dougherty: love Yeah.
KEck: that There was one other example you just gave me. Well, I mean, there was also almost like that walk-in thing.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, the walk-in and the Toro.
KEck: Yeah, so there's a lot of that. I guess I didn't realize how many like any Audi fucking.
Kevin Dougherty: yes yeah
KEck: Yeah, that's weird.
Kevin Dougherty: ah Yeah, where half your head is and a relationship with somebody and half your head is either not in a relationship and depressed or in a relationship with someone else.
KEck: Yeah, I didn't. And we come to this revelation, like, you know, like, ah we're we're like an hour and 10 minutes in. And now I just came to like a major revelation that like,
Kevin Dougherty: but Yeah, yeah.
KEck: ah like lead into like a whole nother thing.
Kevin Dougherty: I mean, he has no
KEck: But I mean, we got to move on past this. So yeah, there's a lot of like crazy fucking shit going on. I mean, but it's really like the loom and employees playing the strings with these people.
KEck: I mean, it is really just like cruel, almost like Dr. Manglin, like psychological like experiments that are going here.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah i mean he has
KEck: And the fact that they're killing, like they said they were going to, I guess, execute his.
Kevin Dougherty: Kill her after it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KEck: Yeah. I mean, that's, I don't know if they meant that they were going to like wipe her brain and turn her into a drone. Or if I got the sense they were going to put a bullet in her head and like bury her somewhere.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, me too.
KEck: So, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's just really fucking, yeah it's really fucking twisted.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: Yeah. But um I was trying to think.
Kevin Dougherty: But yeah, you have the whole, hold on you have the whole ah relationship with Mark and and Hallie and like, yeah, they, the Innie, and he like sleeps with who he thinks is the Innie, but it's the Audi.
KEck: Yeah.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: And he has to tell her Innie that later on, but then later on he has that whole argument with himself. over like you know rescuing his Audi's wife.
KEck: Yeah, that was great.
Kevin Dougherty: And then when they come up the elevator and they're kissing, and then like you know when the things back to the original, they're both like, wait, why are we kissing? We don't really know each other. Then he like helps her escape, but then decides to stay and try to have this relationship with the Annie Helly.
Kevin Dougherty: So that's going to be a whole other thing for for the next season.
KEck: Yeah, you you took the words out of my mouth and phrased it better than i was going to.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: What I wanted to know about was your reaction to the waterfall scene.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: with the the reveal yeah yeah when that when John Thoreau calls her out yeah
KEck: Yeah, because like I said, i had no idea... no idea what was going on? Like I was totally in the dark. I did not have any suspicions.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: I thought that that was helly the whole time. I, I guess I just wasn't as quick to pick it up as you were. Um, and when John Totoro was saying that, like, I didn't know.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, because, I mean,
KEck: So I wanted to know what you thought.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah, he had picked it up. um I mean, he obviously picked it up before I did. But in that episode, when he started kind of questioning, I was like, oh, I think he's he might be on to her.
KEck: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: I think she might be the Audi right now. But like again, like I said, I didn't know it was the whole time.
KEck: Yeah, so you you you knew that, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, and it was still a surprise when like I was like, oh shit, you know what i mean, when when he said it and shit.
KEck: He said it was the cruelty.
Kevin Dougherty: and like called her up Yeah, think something like that.
KEck: He said that Hallie was never cruel. He said she was a lot of things, but never cruel.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: He said that is what did it. But I still didn't know. I still didn't...
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: I guess I should have, but like, yeah, I was just totally... I don't know.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: I guess my perception was down. You know, I talked about how much the show is able to convey complex ideas that I understand. But like, I guess that my mentality was just like, I'm just going with the flow.
KEck: Like, I'm not going to try to predict anything, you know?
Kevin Dougherty: yeah. yeah
KEck: Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's interesting that you were able to, uh, that you were able to, uh, to see that.
KEck: Cause yeah, it just, it totally, uh, passed me by and like, I had even like rewatched it and I still didn't suspect.
KEck: so
Kevin Dougherty: Even early in that episode when John Torres kind of like questioned and shit before like he officially calls him out.
KEck: I still didn't know. Yeah. I still that in the
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: I yeah I don't know I was just even when he was saying mill check he was like activate like ah you know because they have that thing where they can you know turn the chip on and off at at will if that you have the right control and ah yeah I had absolutely ah no idea I thought John Titora the lost his mind.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
KEck: And then when he finally like switched it back, I was just like, oh fuck. And then I was trying to figure out like, was it always Helen Egan the entire time?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, that I definitely think.
KEck: And we are sometimes, but not, it was Helen Egan the entire time because it had to be, because if they switched back to hell, you she would have been like, wait, what the fuck are you guys talking about?
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah,
Kevin Dougherty: yeah. yeah
KEck: Like, this is the first time I've seen you guys.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
KEck: So I was totally in the dark.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely worth a a rewatch, I think, before the next season comes out.
KEck: Yeah. Oh yeah. Before season three, I think it's almost like, I mean, unless you have a really good memory, um I think it's almost mandatory.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: um I don't think a recap will do it justice because there's so many little cues that,
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: so um So is there anything else about this show? We didn't really talk much about ah Christopher Walken.
KEck: He has a um a much smaller part than he did in season one in this, but I thought he had a very meaningful ah role in it as Christopher.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, I mean, he didn't almost show up to like episode four or five. And i was like, oh, he's not. i Because why I remember talking to you about it. i was like, oh, he's not in it that much this season.
KEck: Yeah, but he comes back in the end a lot more.
Kevin Dougherty: We're at the point I was that. And then he comes back in. Yeah, yeah.
KEck: And he reveals that he's like ah like, I mean, I don't think we can really end without saying like, he was like, basically, he describes himself as being like, almost this like a hitman for him.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, basically, yeah. Yeah.
KEck: Like he took people to get whacked.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: I don't think... I'm not sure if he actually killed people himself. He kind of gave the impression he may have, but it seemed like he was more of like a driver who took people to their fate, where they were going to... like you know He said something like, I never asked, but I mean...
KEck: There's so many like little subplots. It's just impossible to get to all of them unless we like talk for like three hours.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.
KEck: And, you know, you save that for Joe Rogan. So um do you have any like final thoughts?
Kevin Dougherty: yes
KEck: Is there any like... key plot items that were missing like any notable scenes that like you think like i mean i'll tell you i really like i mean we just can't get into all the stuff with the goats because that is just so weird that there were even people dressed as goats i was like what the fuck But like, I like how they used, it reminded me of Texas Chainsaw Massacre when that guy's talking about the hammer and the truck, but like he hits him with the, uh, the, you know, the, uh, I don't know what the device is called, but it's what they use on cattle to like basically puncture their brain.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah yeah on the elevator and it when it yeah yeah
KEck: They, you know, in, uh, Texas Chainsaw, they talk about how they used to use a hammer. like you know and it's just There's a name for that gun. I can't think of it.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: and you know it was just I was thinking about because they use it in It. If you remember in It, they hit Pennywise with it. and
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: I can't think of the name for it. but like yeah There were certain scenes like that. um you know and you pointed in that yeah i mean That was that was a great scene.
Kevin Dougherty: when they're in the elevator and like he he switches back. and yeah
Kevin Dougherty: So when the elevator opens up and he first sees his wife, he's like, he's like covered in blood when he goes to like get her out the room.
KEck: Cover them. yeah
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Yeah.
KEck: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that was great. Um, I, I really liked the landscape, um, the snow episode where they go camping. I thought it was just like really beautifully filmed. Uh, something I guess we didn't really talk too much about was, uh, the use of CGI. There wasn't a whole lot of, uh, computer generate stuff that I can remember.
KEck: um And what I did see was like, ah you know, just, you know, fairly minor. um I think all the snow scene, I think that was all real shot and location. i don't think there was um ah like too much... um I don't know. I guess I don't think there was like too much alteration to that.
KEck: I think they were on real terrain the entire time. um I thought that was beautiful. I'm trying to think if I had a favorite episode, but it all kind of wrapped in together for me as one. so um do you have, is there any scene that you like really stood out for you?
Kevin Dougherty: know about any particular scene. I just know that um there was, like, I didn't catch it the first time. Like, somebody else had mentioned it to me. But, like, the way John Totoro was able to, like, give himself messages by using the watch from his, like, military ah time, I didn't catch that.
KEck: Yeah, that that was interesting.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. from his time in the military that he was able to like use his watch to send him messages. Like I didn't quite catch on what he was doing ah with that or like how any of that works.
KEck: Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: But like, yeah, I thought that was really interesting.
KEck: That... Very, very interesting. I'm glad you pointed that out. Yeah, I i totally, yeah, i would have told I would have totally forgot about that. that that That was interesting.
KEck: um There was one other thing I was going to mention, and that was ah John Totoro's, like, ah possible demise. Yeah.
KEck: um they basically deactivated him, and Melchick said, like, you know, because he tried to kill Helen Egan by drowning her if she wasn't turned back to how we are, and he was basically, like, deactivated, which meant, like, you know, his innie is basically executed and will never exist again, but I, I mean, like I said, don't want to predict too much, but, like,
KEck: They do have the ability, as long as he has the chip in his head, he could be reactivated, and I believe he will be.
Kevin Dougherty: You believe he will be?
KEck: I think he's going to come back.
Kevin Dougherty: I think he's i think he's gone. I think he got off on the train and he and he had a nice ending to his character and everything.
KEck: Yeah.
KEck: and Yeah, that that's very possible too.
Kevin Dougherty: That's all.
KEck: I think we're going to see him again in season three, at least in some capacity. But yeah, it would be a very good way for him to bow out of of the series.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah.
KEck: But yeah, so that's ah pretty much ah us on season two of Severance.
Kevin Dougherty: Thank you.
KEck: Um, and, uh, you know, obviously we weren't able to cover everything. Like I'd really like to talk a little about, about Rickon and everything. Cause I love that actor and I really liked his character, but you know, there's just, like I said, there's just too much to, uh, cover in, you know, an hour, an hour and a half. Uh, we don't want to just go crazy. You know, we'd be talking all night,
KEck: But, um yeah, Doc, any ah final words of wisdom you want to share?
Kevin Dougherty: No, that's it. Thanks for joining me and we'll catch you next time for either fucking Yellow Jackets if we didn't already record it or Predator Killer of Killers is helpful.
KEck: Yeah, that's, that's what we're re yeah.
Kevin Dougherty: For sure. Yeah.
KEck: I mean that, I mean, i want to do killer killers, uh, as soon as possible. Um, we all were, uh, very in enthusiastic a about, uh, what we, uh, saw in that.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
KEck: So, uh, the next cast will definitely be of that, but yeah, guys, thanks for joining us. And, uh, Sorry it's been so long. um We're going try to get a little bit more regular.
Kevin Dougherty: We say that every time.
KEck: Hopefully at some point we say it every time, but hey, we mean it.
Kevin Dougherty: but Yeah.
KEck: We do mean it every time, but I hope everybody's well out there and, uh,
Kevin Dougherty: Sometimes we do enough that I can like put them out almost once a week. So it looks like we've been.
KEck: Yeah, but not really.
Kevin Dougherty: Yeah. Peace.
KEck: So anyway, everybody be well, good night, and good luck.
Kevin Dougherty: yeah
Kevin Dougherty: face
