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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - Arkansas & Arizona
142 Plays4 years ago
We are continuing our Summer Road Trip through the United States - and tonight we will be headed through Arkansas & Arizona.
***Please note Arkansas Episode does deal with family rape situations, so if you are sensitive, please take care or skip!
Arkansas Time Slots 0:59 - 29:27
Arizona Time Slots 29:28 - 1:57 (Faith does not know the meaning of mini-episode, sorry!)
Feel free to reach out and say Hi! twistedtalestruecrime@gmail.com
And I will try to post some photos and add-ons to these stories on Instagram (@twistedtales_pod) and on Facebook (TwistedTales True Crime)
Thank you for choosing to listen and spend your time with us!
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Transcript
Introduction and Road Trip Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Twisted Tales. I just want you to know, I started that podcast way early so Lisa couldn't continue to talk to me. So rude, but kind of amazing. I looked up and it's three, two. All right. Anyways, uh, we are continuing our summer road trip series. And as per our tradition of one episode, we're going to rock paper scissors to see who goes first. Three out of two, two out of three, whatever.
00:00:30
Speaker
One, two, three, shoot. You still have to keep playing. OK, one, two, three, shoot. Yes. All right. All right. She won with a rock and a piece of paper. And a thumbnail to the hand. Yeah, I kind of heard a little bit. I'm good. I'm strong. All right. All right. So I got Arkansas or Arkansas compared to how you spell it. I always want to put an L at the end. There's not one.
The Controlling Life of Richard Gene Simmons
00:00:57
Speaker
All right. So I am going to talk about a man named Richard Gene Simmons. No, not the guy from Kiss. I still think when you asked me, I was like, I don't even remember what his first name is. Uh, the workout dude is Richard Simmons, Richard Simmons. Okay. And I went Gene Simmons like from Kiss, right? Dude with the huge tongue.
00:01:18
Speaker
shows our backgrounds. Yeah. God, guys, we're so smart. All right. Anyway, so what we know about this man is his father died at three. His mom married an army guy and they moved around a lot. He became a loner and bully. And due to his bad behavior, he wound up being sent to military school. So at 20 years old, he married a woman named Becky. And no sooner did they say I do,
00:01:48
Speaker
He began controlling how she dressed, what she looked like, no makeup, hair always pulled back, blah, blah, blah. He's a beach. He's super cool, man. Super cool. So according to the psychiatrist or whatever that we're studying the story, he had a control complex. After years of military training, he believed that order and routine is the only way to fix a chaotic world. Because if he believed all that, why did he have to get sent to military school? He was such a bad kid.
00:02:18
Speaker
I think it was because of him going to military school. It was just drilled into his head. I think he just wanted to slap his wife around. I never said that he slapped his wife around. He just controlled literally everything she did. It's not a farley. That's probably a solid one. That's probably a solid one. I'm skipping a jump to slap his head. So they wound up having seven kids. And at some point- And I'm out. No, right? I'm out. That's my thing! I was out with one. I'll tap that and I'm not going to happen again.
00:02:50
Speaker
that he at some point decides to up and move them to a small town in New Mexico. So here you got this guy, super controlling, uh, not just with his wife, but now also with his seven kids. Um, but he, he kind of had a little bit of leniency toward one of his daughters and this particular daughter sort of, for lack of a better word, struck his fancy. We need trigger warnings on this. Uh, you know what?
00:03:19
Speaker
We may as well with children. I like I like trigger warnings. All right. So trigger warnings are going to be incest. We don't know technically if it's molestation of like a younger child because we don't really know when it started. So I'll throw that out. There is a trigger also, but definitely incest. OK. And then definitely I'm going to go. Yeah, it's going to be. There's a lot of homicide that happens for a lot of age age ranges. So.
Simmons' Family Isolation and Manipulative Nature
00:03:50
Speaker
We'll go ahead and throw that up. And you're not going to like him. Well, like I said, I didn't even like fully when I started like listening to the podcast and hearing this guy's story, I didn't even want to talk about his background because like I just don't I hate giving that kind of glory where there's any kind of excuse for being such a tool. Like it's just not an excuse. You're just a tool. But yeah, that's neither here nor there, whatever. So
00:04:16
Speaker
Like I said, they moved their kids down to this place in New Mexico, which was really secluded. Nobody really knows when he started molesting her, but when she was 17, the family actually began noticing that their relationship was openly inappropriate. How are you going to keep that hidden with six other kids and a wife? Yeah, and the age ranges were like,
00:04:44
Speaker
I think the oldest was maybe 19 or something like that. So it's not, you know, it's pretty, you know, and the kids all went to school and stuff. So it's not like they weren't having any, any outside influence saying, Hey, these things are not right. Like they weren't homeschooled or anything. Like you would see like maybe in some kind of weird, uh, what's that word called from your help captive in your house, Stockholm syndrome. Yeah. It was nothing like that. They went out. Yeah. But I mean, okay. Yeah. You're right. You're right. I don't know the words you're looking for. Someone can tell us.
00:05:14
Speaker
Nah, I don't know that they can. People can't read my mind. So, like I said, it was openly inappropriate that the family actually figured that that was probably the reason for all of the seclusion and why he wanted to keep everybody so hidden and under wraps was because he was literally having a fair with his 17-year-old daughter. He quit caring altogether. He was even fondling his daughter in front of his own life.
00:05:39
Speaker
Wow. So now I killed him in his sleep. Yes. And FYI. Oh, absolutely. Like, yeah, you're dead. Yeah, like, yeah. I understand being scared of somebody, but like everybody's got sleep. That's exactly right. Yeah, go to sleep. But I'll watch you. Good night. Yeah. So 17 years old, his daughter became pregnant.
00:06:08
Speaker
And naturally, whose child was it? Her dad's. It was definitely Mr. Simmons' kid. So Simmons' oldest son went to the police and filed charges of incest. Good for him. No kidding. But his sister didn't want to press charges, so. It had to have been going on for a while. Yeah, more than likely. That's kind of what I was saying. Assuming judgment call on me. Yeah. Well, you never know.
00:06:34
Speaker
but you kind of do. So despite the fact that she didn't want to press any charges, the state still indicted him. Yeah, she doesn't have a choice. She's a minor. And so before they could arrest him, he picked up his entire family again and fled to Arkansas. Sorry, Arkansas. He made his children ranging from age 17, I think the youngest was eight, build a cinder block fence around the entire house and dig a hole for an outhouse. And no one in the surrounding Arkansas neighborhood thought this isn't right.
00:07:03
Speaker
Um, I'm sure if I had to guess he probably had like property, you know, and it, well, no, I actually, you're right. Because I believe one of the statements that they made was he did it so that the kids couldn't play with the neighbors next door. I bet his neighbors loved him. Oh, I bet it. Yeah. Like fear thy neighbor kind of crap. Yeah. That's this guy. So, uh, you know, giant cinder blocks weren't enough. So he put barbed wire around the whole thing.
00:07:32
Speaker
Uh, like I said, so he couldn't play with any of the kids next door. The kids went to school. They came straight home. They had no friends, no extracurriculars. They could do nothing. Okay. You come home, you do your homework, you eat dinner. You go, you got to wonder what the repercussions were for the son that ratted him out. Like he's not going to just. Or if he even knew that it was a son that ratted him out. You know what I mean? Anything you can do is anonymous.
00:07:55
Speaker
especially when you make a statement like that and she was going to school at the time so you could automatically just assume just just blame because it's not like he's going to tell his crazy father that it was me yeah definitely not definitely not okay that makes sense so i'm sorry uh so the the older kids the son and and his you know lover daughter uh started rebelling
00:08:20
Speaker
And she actually came home with a boyfriend at one point. And apparently that that was looked unkindly. It was no, it was not. So Simmons was cheating on him. No, I will throw up in my mouth. No, no, check it out. He got pissed and he quit his job. He became a complete hermit in his bedroom for days. Just because his daughter had a girl boyfriend. Yeah, he wasn't she wasn't interested in him anymore. OK, so.
00:08:48
Speaker
And so disturbed. Yeah. When he finally came out of his room after, you know, whatever it was that he was doing in there, basically everything they said, his family said, changed completely. And just like the way he was reacting toward things, the way that he, you know, he was already a control freak, but things were just worse. So. Pardon me, I'm so sorry. Had yazines for lunch today, so hurts.
00:09:16
Speaker
Cause you know, when you're in your, when you're in your thirties, everything you eat hurts your heart. So, um, they, uh, one of the guys that was doing, um, the, like the psyche valve.
00:09:27
Speaker
actually said that that would have been a red flag for him. Like if he was treating this guy for somebody who's so controlling and so like in everybody's face and like, this is what it's going to be for him to recluse himself into his room and stay there for days. He was like, that would have been a red flag warning for me right then saying something bad is going to happen. Something bad is going to happen. So now we're looking at like some years later. Okay. And my story is, is really short this week because
00:09:56
Speaker
There's going to be a lot to discuss in a minute. I don't know the meaning of many episodes and I've got seven pages of typed out. Oh, crap. All right. Well, I don't know how you're. We'll figure something out. I know this is only like a really short story, but once we get to the end of it and I read off my victim list and everything, things are going to get crazy. I think you're worth some stores.
00:10:16
Speaker
We'll just drop three episodes this
The Brutal Murders of the Simmons Family
00:10:18
Speaker
week. It's a summer fun series. I don't want to hang out with you that much. Well, I'll still record it tonight. It's not like you have all these other friends. Mosquito. Sorry. I slapped her in the face. That was not a mosquito. You're a human being. You outweigh a mosquito by like a million pounds. You had to smack me that hard. You could have gone like just pushed on my forehead and it would have been dead. Sorry.
00:10:44
Speaker
What I cannot wait to like hear what that's gonna sound like in the microphone cuz my head was like right next to the mic Y'all I don't even want to tell my story anymore um like the abuse
00:11:06
Speaker
And the fact that she clearly cares so much right now. I'm sorry. She says that she's pissing herself laughing. OK. All right. Let's try again. Yeah. Red flag. Sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry. Goodness gracious. Get it together. OK. When you laugh, I laugh. It's triggering. All right. Back to back to Richard Gene Simmons.
00:11:36
Speaker
All right, so December 22nd 1987 Simmons and his wife got all of but two of their children off to school Why did they keep two home? They were Probably too young No, wait. No, I think it was two. It was two of his oldest No, two of his oldest because at this point they were like this was a
00:11:59
Speaker
We kind of jumped, right? We were in the way back machine and now we're in- We fast forwarded. We fast forwarded. I'm sorry. I should have specified, but you know, my brain's got chook loose about five seconds ago. So, you know, I had to take a minute, all right, to regain consciousness before continuing this podcast. There's going to be a giant mosquito on you while you're talking. I'm just going to go ahead and throw that out there right now. Psycho.
00:12:27
Speaker
It's like she looks at me and she sees my brother and she's like, yes, quack. All right. Whatever. Any. So December 22nd, nineteen eighties. Simmons, come on. So he had like, I think his son was twenty six. And I'm not 100 percent sure about the other child that was home.
00:12:53
Speaker
I might need to get back through my notes a little bit further. Anyways, so after all the kids were left, he beat his wife unconscious with a crowbar. Why? Because he lost his mind. He wasn't in control. I seriously, I don't know. And I don't think anybody knows. It's something that he clearly has been plotting for for a minute now, you know, since his his daughter cheated on him.
00:13:20
Speaker
But that was a few years ago, right? Uh-huh. So he's been festering. Whoa, fine. No, he's been crazy. And they said that there was a significant change in him. There was no real explanation as to. So she probably like burned the toast for breakfast and he snapped. I told you he slapped his wife around. Yeah, it's probably. You don't go from never laying hands on your wife to beating her to death with a crowbar. That's pretty logical. But he also had to be in control. All right. So.
00:13:49
Speaker
We're going to get back into the trigger warning again, guys. If you don't want to hear anything about the kind of murder that is about to happen with children and adults and whatnot, just fast forward. So, um, like I said, he, he beat his wife with his crowbar. Then he proceeded to strangle his three year old granddaughter to death. Was that his daughter and then his granddaughter? Yeah, but she was, we'll get there and just give me a minute. All right.
00:14:16
Speaker
Because this was on December 22nd. So this was right before Christmas. What? Oh, OK. OK. So some of the family, some of the family was there, but not the whole family. OK. OK. So he then proceeds to bash his 26 year old son in the skull and then shot him four times in the face. That's excessive. A little bit. A little bit. Yeah. So then he goes back to his wife and shot her twice.
00:14:45
Speaker
just to make sure the crowbar did its job, I guess. Apparently. Wow. So then the other kids started coming home from school. He called them into the some room one by one and told him that he had a gift for them and he strangled every single one of them. And then he took all of the bodies and put them into a hole that he had the children dig weeks earlier. Wow. Pause here and I'll let you just kind of process that for a second.
00:15:14
Speaker
What did I there? There's no processing. Like when I was sitting here and I was listening and I was reading some of the stuff, I was like. This had to have been something that was going on in his mind for a minute. He had to dig a hole. Yeah, they're they're great. He had them dig their grave. OK. Yeah. Feels good, doesn't it? All right. So on December 26, which couple of days later, 1987, the remaining remaining members of the family came for like Christmas festivities after.
00:15:45
Speaker
This would include the daughter that he was in love with. And her now husband and their children. So the remaining members of the family show up and he proceeded to shoot all of the adults and strangle all of the children. Then he dumped all of the bodies except for one. Care to venture a guess? The daughter, he forced himself a pod.
00:16:14
Speaker
He found a very nice tablecloth and placed it around her and covered her face. And did what with the body? Left it there. Everybody else was in the hole. What about? Just left it in the house. What about his daughter slash grandchild? One of the ones that was strangled. Wow. So. There is speculation that the only reason he did that is because he was still in love with her. Right. OK.
00:16:39
Speaker
So I would prefer you not use that terminology. I would for you. I'm literally only speaking of what they said. I don't care what they said. No, you're you are not in love with your daughter. You're abusing your daughter. You're molesting your daughter. You're not in love with her. No, it's disgusting. It's absolutely vile. So he killed 14 members of his family, every single member of his family, 14.
00:17:08
Speaker
Please tell me he went to jail. I'm not done yet. So. He decided he was going to take a road trip downtown. Goodie. Then he decided to kill two more people that he felt had wronged him. But did he bring the death toll to how many? 14, 15, 16. I even did the finger count, guys, but you can't see it. That's all right. I thought I thought it ended at like 17 or 18. I feel like it did end up at.
00:17:37
Speaker
17, but they didn't know 16. No, 16. Sorry. Mm hmm. When did I say 17? 18. When did I say 17? No, I said he killed 14 members of his family. It's so in my note. You can't count now, Miss South America.
00:17:56
Speaker
Listen, Miss- Miss- Miss- Miss- Miss Nor- Maca. I quit. I'm just done. I- I- Today's stopped. I don't want to be here anymore. I don't want to look at you anymore. You smacked me in the damn face. And I- I- My- My face hurts. Just continue. Fine. So what did these people do to him? Like, did he know them beforehand? Or he was just like, you looked at me- Literally, that's what they said. It said that he felt had wronged him. He felt- Did they talk to him?
00:18:23
Speaker
So I'm going to go through my, my victim list right here in just a second before I still have a little bit to say, but, and then I'm going to read off like my victim list and the relation. Okay. So then when I get, when I get there, maybe we'll, we'll see some sunshine, right? Some light, no sunshine, just understanding a question. So he killed these two people and then he surrendered himself to the cops that were surrounding him. Just gave up.
00:18:50
Speaker
Here I am. Did what I did, and I'm done. Yep. Do you know why? No. He said he was afraid that he would get shot and end up in a vegetative state. That would have been too easy, though. Mm-hmm. But, like, for that to be his main concern, like, what if I didn't die? You know what I mean? Like, that's sick. That's twisted. He's an awful individual. Yeah.
00:19:19
Speaker
He was convicted two times for what we now know because we listen to faith for capital murder. Thank you, Faith. And he was sentenced to death by lethal injection. Good. He showed zero remorse and waved any right to an appeal. He just was like, yeah, he literally went through, murdered 14 of his family members and two people and was just like, OK, I'm done now, so I'm just going to I'm just going to go home, meet my maker, you know,
Understanding Family Dynamics and Abuse
00:19:49
Speaker
So I'm going to go through the victim list. Sorry, I had to scroll. Ronald Jean Simmons, Jr., 29, his son. Rebecca Simmons, 46, his wife. Barbara Simmons, three-year-old granddaughter. Loretta Simmons, 17, daughter. Eddie Simmons, 14, son. Marianne Simmons, 11.
00:20:19
Speaker
daughter. Becky Simmons, eight, daughter. Biological daughter. Daughter and granddaughter or just daughter? William Simmons, 22, son. Renetta Simmons, 21, daughter-in-law. Trey Simmons, 20 months, grandson.
00:20:47
Speaker
Sheila Simmons McNulty, daughter, 24. That's the in-love one. Dennis McNulty, 33, son-in-law. And Sylvia McNulty, six, daughter slash granddaughter. Michael McNulty, 21 months. And that was his grandson. Kathleen Kendrick, 24, acquaintance.
00:21:15
Speaker
And James Shafen, 33, complete stranger. I think you want to react now to me, but I'm still waiting on that. I'm going to get there on the grandchild. I did. OK, so that was Sylvia McNulty. But that was the granddaughter was six years old. That's what I said. Daughter slash granddaughter. And the other two were not his grandchildren. That's correct. So the let me go back here. So Sheila was the one he had the affair with.
00:21:43
Speaker
He did not have an affair with her. I'm right. I'm sorry. He raped her. So Dennis was the man he went. She wound up marrying Dennis McNulty. He was 33. And that was his son. I bet that was a comfortable wedding ceremony. You know, and I'm kind of wondering, too, though, because if if that were like me in a situation, he wouldn't know that.
00:21:59
Speaker
Like I wouldn't say anything. I'm gonna be like, hey, this child that I have and I'm a single mom is kind of my dad's. Like, you know what I mean? I don't care. A, I'd probably have a lot of bitter and resentment towards my mother who did not help me. But they sure as heck would not have my three old daughter alone. Like taking care of her, unless that was not her child.
00:22:24
Speaker
no the three-year-old was someone else's was from let me see here uh Ronald Simmons and then Becky Simmons no uh let me see the daughter yeah it was the daughter-in-law Renetta so those two were the ones that were together he had they were already at the house but my okay here's my thing though i mean i'm just gonna be lost
00:22:46
Speaker
Ronald Junior, his son, whose daughter was there, is more than likely age progression wise, the son that called the police on him for incest. Why would you let your child near this monster? That's a solid point. And I don't care if you don't tell your husband. And he, but he technically, he was one of the ones that were there that was originally killed. So he got killed. Yeah. And then.
00:23:10
Speaker
Well, his daughter was killed first. I still wouldn't let my daughter near that monster. I would agree. And I don't care if she never owned up to her husband that her father abused her or not. There is no way in heck that any of my children would ever be near that man. Ever again. Ever again. Would not be spending a holiday with him. No. Like, just say he was an abusive monster and I don't want a relationship with him. You don't have to get in any gritty. Yeah. But no. I think it's like that forgive and forget mentality. No. But when it comes to something like that, like,
00:23:40
Speaker
I could forgive you all day long because I'm not going to harbor that kind of crap in my heart. But when it comes to forgetting, bro, the only thing I'm going to forget is your name. But like, I'm not I don't want anything to do with you. I don't want to be near you. Correct. And not that we know her side of anything, but the fact that she was unwilling to press charges, she could have been scared of him. But B, I mean, it could have the grooming could have. Oh, absolutely. Such a young age.
00:24:06
Speaker
that she thought it was like a normal relationship. Do you know what I mean? And just because she quote unquote fell out of love with him and started dating someone else does, doesn't mean she ever saw it as wrong. Would be my only guess as to why she would let her children near that, that, that monster. And like that, again, like that's a valid point that you brought up too with the son where, you know, you're, you're 29 years old. You're bringing a three year old daughter to see the man that raped your sister that you tried to press charges against. Like why would you do that?
00:24:36
Speaker
Like, did you did you think that, you know, was there some kind of circumstance where he, you know, man, he really changed his life around.
00:24:46
Speaker
The only thing I can think, honestly, the only thing that makes somewhat logical sense in an unlogical situation is that the sister was not afraid of him but thought that this was like a romantic relationship because she had been groomed and brainwashed and trained for this relationship. So when they moved, she somehow got her brother to understand that it was a normal
00:25:11
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that'd be the only that'd be the only thing I could see. But I would still never let my child near. And, you know, I was kind of wondering, too, because it specified that the rest of the family came in to see him. So I'm kind of wondering now if if Ronald and his wife lived with. Yeah, Becky and Jean, or I'd rather live in a shelter. Yeah, thanks. But no, thanks. Hard pass. Wow. Well, that's an awful story.
00:25:39
Speaker
I know it was kind of crappy and condolences to the family that was left behind because Becky had a sister, the wife. Now, you know, there's extended family that are going to have to live with us forever. You know, the other side, the in-law grandparents that are never yet to be lost, their son, their grandchildren.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then to have all that come out about their granddaughter and their adopted granddaughter and their daughter-in-law. Yeah. Because I'm sure they didn't know it going into all this. And I'm sure it was just smeared. I personally don't think that's something that anybody's going to start with in a relationship is, hey, I was molested by my dad, and this is his kid.
00:26:21
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I just don't feel like I feel like that's something that you would keep in the dark. I feel like it's something that I don't know. I have no, you know, I don't know. I think it would take a lot of therapy to be able to be that.
00:26:37
Speaker
I guess open like hey this I mean it's not something like you first meet someone hi my name's John or my name's Jane this is my daughter Kate she's a product of rape from my father would you like to go on a date like it's not that type of conversation right but before you marry someone that's what I'm saying
00:26:54
Speaker
I would think you would, but again, it would take a lot of, especially if she had that twisted mentality that I talked about, it would take a lot of therapy to get her in a healthy spot to realize this was wrong. I was abused and this is what happened. As opposed to she probably just said it was, it was a high school fling or a long standing high school relationship that was the result of my daughter. I don't talk to him anymore. Wow.
00:27:23
Speaker
I know that was a weird one. I didn't care for that, but I got stuck with Arkansas, you know, and then I went with one one case and you were like, everybody knows about that. And I'm all like, man, I'm in the shadows because I'm clearly I'm not up to date. I don't know. You apparently have more of a life than I do. No, I listen to like like old serial killer stuff like that's why you never heard of like Moses Sotole is because I listen to like random stuff like that.
00:27:54
Speaker
Gotcha. It's not really like the 2021 or. You know, I've also never heard of Murderpedia, so I'm sitting there like, what is this? It was like this weird like you're very excited about. Yeah, it was stupid, but it was, you know, interesting. All right. Well, let's take a brief, a brief pause. We're going to breathe and then we're going to take a brief pause. Yes. So I can get my nose together.
00:28:21
Speaker
because I have. I thought I was the one that got hit in the head. Lord, we're pausing. We're pausing for just a minute, guys. We'll be back. OK, and we are back. I am. I have Arizona this week. And so I am going to be telling you a story about the best friends.
00:28:45
Speaker
And honestly, I've got a lot of theories, um, on all of this, on several pieces of this, and I'm going to see if your theories line up with mine.
Friendship and Health Journeys of Anne and Sammy
00:28:54
Speaker
So even though this is probably going to be long, feel free to jump in with any questions, comments, or concerns. You're talking to me or the people. You always don't respond. I've got no resumes guys. Bad job. Look, we're still stuck with Lee. You, you, you tell me to shut up a lot. It's in a loving manner though. You probably write like 90% of the time, but still.
00:29:12
Speaker
All right. All right. So I'm going to be talking about Anne LaRoy and Hedvig, who went by Sammy Samuelson. Like, how do you do that? Like, you're just like, I don't like my name, so I'm going to go with Brian because her name was Hedvig. Either way.
00:29:33
Speaker
Either way, I'm just saying like. Maybe it was the middle name, who knows? Two shame. Nine points. Let me just say them. Anne was from Oregon and was described as a smart, ambitious woman who always went above what was requested of her even becoming a nurse as early as 1925. We're on the way back machine. I was just going to say. Black and white. She'd been married twice, but none of those seemed to stick. So after her last divorce, she took a position in Alaska, which is where she met Sammy.
00:30:02
Speaker
Sammy was best known for her sparkling personality. She was outgoing, witty and adventurous and had a great sense of humor. And she had just moved to Alaska to take a teaching position. So the two women met on their way to Juneau, Alaska. And even with 10 years difference between the two of them and was 10 years older than Sammy, they just became fast friends.
00:30:25
Speaker
Um, they even became family to one another because they both started this new life in Alaska alone. So it was, they were both new, they were both young, single women. And you know, they just decided that was it. They were going to be best friends. They were going to be each other's, you know, soul sisters, whatever you want to say. Um, it was said that they were inseparable and took care of each other, um, without even thought. And so when Sammy fell ill with tuberculosis.
00:30:53
Speaker
She got it back. Tuberculosis was on the rise in this time period. Tuberculosis is the one where you start coughing blood up and it just basically turns your insides into sewage. Correct. There's varying degrees. That girl we knew at church had tuberculosis and hers wasn't as bad. She just coughed and got winded.
00:31:17
Speaker
Sammy fell really ill and just started wasting away from the illness. And eventually she knew she had to leave Alaska because the cold weather, the wet weather was just making her lungs that much worse.
00:31:29
Speaker
She'd started coughing up blood, and so was the heavy heart. One night during dinner, she told her best friend, listen, I've got to leave. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to live much longer if something doesn't change. Right. Because cold weather slows everything down, doesn't it? Well, they lived in the cold, but it was that cold, wet weather that made her lungs work extra hard. That's what I'm saying. Like, when your body, its natural response in cold is to work harder, right? It slows like, you know,
00:31:57
Speaker
She's not breathing right, basically. Sorry, guys. So, Anne never hesitated and said, that's fine. I'm going to pack my bag. We'll go wherever we need to go. And Sammy was kind of taking it back because again, they, I mean, they've been friends for a couple of years, but it's not like this is like my, but Anne didn't hesitate. They were going to go where it was best for Sammy and her health.
00:32:19
Speaker
Wait, do we have like a stage five clinger here? No, no, no, no. I'm just asking. Just asking. The women put their jobs and took off leaving the wet cold weather of Alaska behind in favor of the warmer, dry climate of Arizona. During the early 1930s, Arizona was an extremely popular spot for many people with tuberculosis to move to because the dry humid air helped keep the worst of the symptoms at bay. I actually, our next door neighbor had cushions.
00:32:48
Speaker
It's something I never heard of before. But a lot of it is like almost allergy induced. Yeah. And it's very severe. She wound up passing from it. I remember that. Yeah. But she moved to Arizona for the exact same reason. Yeah. Because it's everything is just kind of. If you've got a lung ailment, that dry humid air, because the wet helps the tuberculosis grow. Yeah. The dry humid kind of snuffs it off. So so many people moved to Arizona in this timeframe from tuberculosis, they actually just called them lungers.
00:33:16
Speaker
Really? I knew Wanda moved to town. Oh, my goodness, dude. OK. So Arizona was known. The part they moved in was known as very conservative. It's a traditional community made up heavily of family homes, churches and schools. And the community upheld a very strict moral code. Anything that was taboo was kept secret or ignored. And you just brushed that crap under the rug because they were Pleasantville and nothing wrong ever happened.
00:33:45
Speaker
However, with the influx of all the the lungers, if you will, it was it was started to kind of notice this wholesome town underneath was just like everything else. It was politically corrupt. Prostitution was at an all time high. There was a large network of, quote unquote, good old boys who ran the town, which mainly comprised of doctors, lawyers and successful businessmen. I see when I think of good old boys, I think about like
00:34:11
Speaker
down south where they're like good old boys. You know what I mean? Like totally different terminology for different states, I guess. But it's back in the day, like the good old boys, the guys that have, you know, they're the successful men. If you're not from the south, like when we, when, when Faith and I discussed a good old boy, he's just like, you know, typical blue collar guy, huncy drinks, he
00:34:32
Speaker
It was a fashion. Yeah, choose this to back. Well, that's not these. These were the affluent. OK, so like they call it. Yeah, they ran the town. But again, that was ignored because it wasn't the image the community wanted to believe in. So none of that was actually happening. Quote unquote. So we just turned a blind eye to correct. OK.
00:34:54
Speaker
When they moved here, Sammy was just two weeks from all the tuberculosis symptoms that had exasperated, plus traveling from Alaska to Arizona. So she was unable to work. She had to basically live off her savings. Her and her friend, which her name has escaped me,
00:35:18
Speaker
They moved in together, Anne, Anne's her name. They moved in together and Anne was basically the sole breadwinner for the quote unquote family. Anne found a job working as a x-ray tech at a local medical clinic. So that was a little bit step down for her. She was a nurse, but that's what was available. That's what she took. So while working at this medical clinic, Anne found another kindred spirit and a 26 year old medical secretary at the clinic and her name was Ruth Winnie Jones.
00:35:48
Speaker
And these two girls hit it off immediately. Ruth was a pretty but very shy and reserved girl from the Midwest. Her father was a pastor. And she had moved to Arizona as well for her own ailments. Unlike Sammy and Anne, Ruth was actually married to a doctor. She just called him Doc. But they were not living together because he was working in Mexico as a medic at a mining company.
00:36:14
Speaker
And in the 1930s, that's not usual for a couple to be separated like that, to live separately.
00:36:21
Speaker
And if that's the career, though, back then, mining was like a big deal. Well, he was a doctor at a mining company, right? She didn't have a choice because of tuberculosis. She had to move somewhere where she could live longer and had it to not answer. Ruth. Ruth. OK, because you said her own elements. I didn't know. OK. All right. So anyway, it was it was odd, but it was accepted. However, that was not really 100 percent the truth.
00:36:46
Speaker
Um, her husband Doc was a doctor. He was 22 years older than her. Um, but he was also a drug addict that was hooked on morphine and could not hold down a job longer than four months at a time. But as stated earlier, if it didn't fit the narrative and the pretty little lie, we just sleep it under the rug and slap a sticker on it. So he worked as a doctor at a coal mining field and our silver mine. And that's why they live separated, not because he's in and out of sanitariums or.
00:37:16
Speaker
rehabs because he's addicted to morphine. So all right so it was a silver mine it was not a silver mine okay I'm sorry. So the three ladies just immediately hit it off all three of them there's not no discord they are all just clicking um
00:37:31
Speaker
They were all basically single women. Ruth was married, but they were living separately. So they were basically three single women struggling to make it on their own. And it wasn't long before Ruth just became a fixture in the girl's home. She was there each night for dinner. They played their card games. They listened to the radio, talked about their life. And most nights, they did this until too late. And Ruth just ended up spending the night on some pajamas, spending the night because she didn't want to travel home that late to an apartment by herself.
00:38:00
Speaker
Say the night with who though? Sammy and Anne. Ruth would just end up. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So it didn't take long before Sammy and Anne told Ruth, you just need to move in with us. You're there most of the time anyway. And logically splitting bills three ways just makes more sense. Um, and while it was extremely odd for three younger single women to live alone like this that aren't related,
00:38:29
Speaker
The town just kind of ignored it. And Sammy and Ruth had such great personalities. Everybody loved them. And they just called them affectionately the girls. OK. So even with this strict moral code, the girls found together and decided to become modern women.
Jack Halloran: Charm, Tension, and Jealousy
00:38:46
Speaker
They smoked. They drank booze. Wait, smoked what? All I said is they smoked. I'm guessing cigarettes. OK. They drank booze. What you know, you're thinking, woo hoo.
00:38:55
Speaker
This is the prohibition era. Oh, okay. And they love to entertain at their house, inviting nurses and doctors over to their small bungalow for these parties they had multiple times a week, which were attended by many. The girls' house became a favorite local spot to hang out for influential men looking to cut loose and have some fun away from the prying eyes of their uptight neighbors and not be judged.
00:39:24
Speaker
Um, so it was just like, uh, uh, had the word just brothel. See, that's what I thought. I was like, this is brothel. I thought my first I thought brothel, but then I thought this is a swingers pack because it's a one bedroom, small bungalow. If the three women share a bedroom and with three separate mattresses and they've got all these people just come into.
00:39:46
Speaker
hang in like a two bedroom shack. It's a swing. This is you put your keys in a bowl when you get there and you mix them up and find a partner. Yeah, like orgy topia. Yeah, that is 100 percent. That's why I wanted to see if you were catching that vibe, too. I was 100. I'm going to be honest with you, though. This is probably the first story that you've told where. Like I'm following it along and I'm listening, but I honestly have no idea where this could be heading. Like everyone, I always end up intervening and I'm like, hey, so like blah, blah, blah, like the person that ruins the movie for everybody.
00:40:16
Speaker
Uh, but this one I'm kind of, uh, lost. You'll probably catch up real quick. So, um, are there any trigger warnings in this one? Well, I mean the normal like death and, and maiming, but no children or anything like that. So the girls live this life, which everyone enjoyed having the girls around. However, um, all of this is going to start to change one night when the net, when a man named Jack Halloran comes to the party.
00:40:46
Speaker
He's a 44 year old successful businessman in the area. He owns the local lumber company in town. He's a member of the city chamber of commerce and he's all around like a just prominent figure in the Phoenix community. He was also married but a well-known playboy.
00:41:06
Speaker
Jack loved his booze, and he loved his women. And he drank in large quantities. Booze and boobs. He drank in large quantities, and he had a booming laugh that everyone could hear. He was tall and balding. So I just think, like, in my mind, he's that jock. Right. Like, the one that, you know, relives his glory days, but never, like, still lives in his mama basement and wears a fast food joint. Yeah. In every rom-com. Yeah. He's that jock. OK. He even gave himself a nickname, Happy Jack.
00:41:36
Speaker
So when he introduced himself to people, you know, this is Jack Howard, but all my friends call me Happy Jack because he's cool. Can I just give us nicknames now? Apparently. We'll just introduce each other as that. But apparently, even though, like to me, this 44 year old balding, pudgy, tall guy that's really loud and obnoxious and calls himself Happy Jack is not like ooh la la. Yeah. That was not the case because as much as Jack loved women, women loved Jack.
00:42:06
Speaker
Like, loved Jack. He had one of those charismatic personalities. I was just gonna say that, dude. He was the life of every freaking party. Like, everyone loved him. And I hate to say it. I hate to break any man's heart. That's, like, super duper hot. If you can't make somebody laugh, bro, it ain't happening. It ain't happening. So, one night at a party at the bungalow, Ruth brought Jack in and introduced him to Sammy and Ann.
00:42:29
Speaker
While Jack went to get a drink and make his round, the two girls immediately pounced on their friend, trying to get the dirt. Because you know, the three of them lived together. They know, like, they know.
00:42:40
Speaker
So they knew Ruth was married, but they also really knew that she and Jack had a thing. Ruth firmly denied any affair. They were just really good friends. He was a charming man, and they believed her as much as I believe it now, even knowing where the story goes. They don't believe her. However, the denial was all the two other girls needed to hear to justify moving in on Ruth's man.
00:43:09
Speaker
She's saying there's nothing going on. They're just friends. She's married. They're single. Why not? Right.
00:43:16
Speaker
So after all, he was handsome and rich. I'm sorry. And always the focus of parties. Wait, wait, wait. Handsome and rich. I thought you said he was bald and chubby. He was bald and chubby, but in their journals, it was, he was handsome and rich, so. All right, all right, all right. He was the focus of every party. I didn't know what lamp this guy rubbed. I know, right? Sorry. So the three best friends started down a road of jealousy, deceit, and sex. As parties continued at the girl's house. Good old Jack is like, yeah.
00:43:46
Speaker
This is great. He's weary. You didn't care. Let's not forget that in this whole story. So he's getting like four times over this guy. Oh, many more times.
00:43:56
Speaker
Oh, so there's more than just the girls here on page two of seven. Oh, OK. Well, I better stop talking now. All right. As the parties continued at the girls house, Jack became a regular figure bringing along with him his successful business friends, which just bled right into the atmosphere the girls had created. The prominent men who attended these parties would lavish the girls with expensive gifts, including bootleg booze.
00:44:20
Speaker
And all three girls' main priority was basically to fawn all over Jack while Jack was there. Okay. Tell me this isn't a swingers party. Uh, yeah, it's brothel. So right here, just a side note. I gotta be honest. It seems like a swingers club. So it didn't take long before Ruth started to notice that while her two best friends flirted shamelessly with Jack, you know, just her friend.
00:44:45
Speaker
He flirted back. Ooh. And she did not like that. That's trifling, man. She would watch from the sidelines and able to do anything as Jack shamelessly flirted back, especially with Sammy. And at this point, why especially with Sammy? Because Sammy, because in the description, Ruth is an A and 10 years older. Right. OK. She's probably a little long in the tooth, if you will. She's a hard worker. They always described her as like, quote unquote, she had a great personality.
00:45:14
Speaker
Oh, cool. So like. So they never said like she was unattractive, but they always talked about her brains and the other two girls beauty. Right. OK. So, you know.
00:45:25
Speaker
But it's like those babies that you're like, oh, my God. It's so cute. It's legal. Yeah, it's legal. Sorry, guys. Anyway, Ruth, at this point, consider Jack more than just a fling. Ruth and Jack had been having an affair for over a year at this point. OK, so she's desperately in love with Jack, who is married and Ruth is married just so we're keeping score.
00:45:54
Speaker
So it didn't take I already read that one. So, hey, just an interjection here, girls. Don't do that. The end. The end. So while Ruth was apparently OK to share Jack with his wife without her knowledge, of course, naturally, she realized watching Ruth, she realized that watching her two best friends flirt with Jack and him flirt back. He just might not love her as much as she loves him.
00:46:22
Speaker
which if you're the other woman, typically, he doesn't. Normally, yeah, I would have to say. So this started to fester in Ruth's head and in her heart. And, you know, in a logical mind, we're like, I don't want to see you anymore, but no, probably not Ruth, right? Nope. OK. I just want them to know that like herpes is a thing and we're getting there, you know, but it wasn't just her like.
00:46:50
Speaker
The other girls were getting jealous too, like Sammy and Ann, like they all just started kind of, which I gotta say, side note, if they are two girls, whether you know each other or not, and you find out your man is cheating on you with the other girl, it is not the other girl's fault nine times out of 10.
00:47:09
Speaker
It's the bah, it's the man, the boys. So let's get mad at him, not at our friend. Now, you know, that's trifle and two, but they always get mad at the other girl and it's like the guy's perfect. It takes two to quote unquote tango. It does. It infuriates me. Yeah, that's like any cheating relationship. Oh, I'm gonna kick that girl's butt. Why?
00:47:33
Speaker
Why, why are you gonna kick her butt? He's just gonna find someone else to cheat with. It's not even just like a way, why would you waste your breath? I don't know, but that's how it always is. And so all the girls started just kind of festering this anger towards the other girls in the house. And really it was Anne and Sammy against Ruth. Like Anne and Sammy were mad at Ruth. Ruth was, and they all didn't believe each other. Like if Ruth came home late for dinner one night, Sammy was automatically, I know you're with Jack. What were you and Jack doing?
00:48:02
Speaker
That's so weird, guys. I'm sorry. Ruth was I was at Jack's normal spot. I saw your car there. So like they were spying on each other and trying to play this detective and they're all mad. And I don't really understand. But that's where we're at. I think I'm going to move out now. But Ruth still is saying that her and Jack are just friends. They're not having an affair. She continues to deny any affair.
00:48:29
Speaker
Right. And her husband's in rehab, right? In and out. He's all over the world, just morphing in and up. OK. Jack's wife is at home probably with his two point five children. Mm hmm. And but why does why does Ruth care so much if this is just her friend? But whatever. Ruth eventually got mad and and and told Jack, you're I see the way you flirt with Sammy. I see the way you look at her. You guys are going out. You're cheating on me with her.
00:49:01
Speaker
Which of course smooth talking how dare you check on your mistress with your mistress. Yeah Sorry, Jack just basically said your Ruth. I love you
00:49:15
Speaker
And you know, I understand that you could be a little insecure about my intentions because I am, you know, I am married and it makes you insecure. But I'm just friends with Sammy. She hasn't been able to work because of tuberculosis. She's the hangout spot. We're friends. I just throw her some money for rent with absolutely no strings attached. There's nothing going on there. You have nothing to worry about. I love you. And Ruth would believe him.
00:49:39
Speaker
until after she rolled out of bed, put on her clothes and was headed back home to her friend's house and that doubt would creep right back in. So this kind of continued on and Ruth gets home one night and there's all this new, like these new pieces of furniture in the little bungalow.
00:50:00
Speaker
Good old Jack. And the girls, Sammy and Anne are cooing over this buffet piece or this new table. And Ruth has had enough. She's pissed. Right. So she tells them, quite frankly, that those two are hussies. And they are using Jack and his good will. And he gave them that money to help with medical expenses and living expenses. And they are blowing it. And that's just wrong.
00:50:29
Speaker
Sammy responded with, Jack gets plenty from the money he gives us and we give him the same perks you do. Oh, okay. So we aren't using him at all. So basically Sammy's saying we're sleeping with him to get money. You're giving it up for free. That's not our fault, but don't you sit here and tell us we're using him. He, he knows exactly what he gets out of that money.
00:50:55
Speaker
And so this just continued, this lashing out and suspicion just continued and continued. And the furniture was just the last straw. So. And it wasn't a brothel. No, it was just a hangout spot. Sammy even told Ruth during this whole furniture thing, just come out, just admit you're Jack's mistress too. And they then told Sammy that they weren't the hussies, she was, because at least they weren't married.
00:51:26
Speaker
Oh, and said, how dare you judge us? We are doing a business transaction, basically. Yeah. Um, you're giving it away for free and you're married. We're not. So who's who's the who's the infidel now, basically? Infidel? I don't know. So I was. I thought that was like a like a Muslim thing. But, you know, in all these I don't know, it's Aladdin, a dulter, Aladdin, where they yell infidel. But anyway.
00:51:56
Speaker
None of them apparently thought to talk about the fact that Jack was cheating on his wife with all of them. Nope. Nope. But this time it was, um, Jack's a great guy. Oh gosh. He's a piece of crap. But it was during this time that Sammy and Ann decided be better for just a lot. So in September of 1931, Ruth moved out on her own again to keep up appearances.
00:52:18
Speaker
If anyone asked why Ruth moved out, they just said that they got an argument over something stupid like housekeeping, but they were still friends. They just weren't good living together. And when they saw each other in the street, it was kiss, kiss, hug, hug. Oh my gosh, I miss you so much. Really, they are shooting daggers when everyone's not looking. But again, we sleep it under the rug. Jack, on the other hand, came out sitting pretty. With the girls now split, he was able to just split his time between the three women.
00:52:45
Speaker
without any tension. Annie and Sam continued to see Jack together by all appearances. And they got as much out of him as they could. And it was a business arrangement. He would pay their rent. If he would try to skimp out on rent, they would say, well, we're going to go have lunch with your wife tomorrow at the team room. A blackmail. And, you know, Jack would yell, scream.
00:53:13
Speaker
pay them the rent and see them again whenever. But then he'd also get to go over and hang out with Ruth and have his, you know, put on the side. Yeah, the free size. In Ruth's mind, they are fated mates. Yeah. Stupided girl. So in a small community, the three girls would run into each other often and they would just fake it. Like I said earlier, kiss, kiss, hug, hug. They're all friends. And Ruth watches Jack continue to hang around with other women.
00:53:39
Speaker
not just Sammy and Anne, any woman, and realized that maybe Sammy wasn't the problem. Oh, you think? So. Blenders came off. Yes. But she's still not admitting like a Jack still loves her. He's just got a wandering eye type of deal. Right. At work. Remember, Anne and Ruth work together.
00:53:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Every day. And so they would pretend like everything was fine. Kiss, kiss, hug, hug, miss you so much. And you know when it was like, you say fake it till you make it? Yeah. And when you pretend so long, you kind of believe you're live. Right. So they would kind of talk more and more and it was still a little awkward, but they kind of remembered the reasons they became friends in the in the beginning. They were all young, single women trying to make it alone.
00:54:23
Speaker
So on Friday, October 16th during work at the clinic and finally decided she was going to be the bigger person. And she invited Ruth over for dinner that night, just like old times. They had another coworker coming over for dinner and they were all going to play bridge, which is a card game apparently. And yeah, it's got the little pigs.
00:54:43
Speaker
Okay, sure. Sorry. I don't know that again. But, you know, they had another friend come in. They could make it an even number. They could hang out. And Ruth accepted tentatively, telling Anne that she really wanted to come. She would try to be there, but she was so behind in work and all these reports. She didn't know if she'd finish in time, but she'd try her hardest. So Ruth didn't actually have to work late. She had a sleepover planned with Jack.
00:55:12
Speaker
but she did want to go see her friends because again, they've faked it, you know, for a couple months now and she kind of misses her friends because you forget about the bad, you know, you miss your friends. So that night Ruth went home and got dinner ready for her and Jack and sat there and waited and about an hour passed and she waited some more and about another hour passed and she waited some more and four hours later, Jack's still not there.
00:55:41
Speaker
And Ruth finally got a little pissed off and said, you know what? If he comes by, I'm not going to be sitting here waiting on him. So I'm going to go to my friend's house and I'm going to reconnect with him.
Murder and Investigation: The Tragic Fate of Anne and Sammy
00:55:53
Speaker
So she's going to teach Jack a lesson. She goes over to Ann and Sammy's house. They're going to have a great night. And they did. They picked up just like they, they always had laughing, gossiping. Um, and even gave Ruth some pajamas just like back in the early days that spend the night.
00:56:09
Speaker
It's around 11 p.m. this night. The next-door neighbor was sleeping on his porch. It was an enclosed porch. I'm sure it was hot. I don't know if they had AC in the 1800s. I'm doubting it. 1800s? 1930s. Oh, tomato, tomato. Tomato, tomato. All right. So he's sleeping on his screen to import when he's jolted awake because he hears gunshots. So he gets up and he goes to investigate, but he obviously dreamed this up.
00:56:38
Speaker
because nobody has their lights on, nobody's screaming, nobody's crying, like he's walking up and down the street and it's nothing, everybody, it's quite as a grave, everybody's asleep. So he obviously probably had like a mosquito fly on his head and woke up and just in the middle of a drink. I bet he didn't get smacked in the face. He was by himself. So anyways.
00:57:00
Speaker
Um, another neighbor that lived across the street was coming home really late after emergency surgery. He was a doctor. And he noticed that there were two girls, two cars parked at the girl's home. There you go, Tennessee. Yep. There's a good old boy driving his John Deere down the street. There it is. Give it just a minute. We'll just, yeah. He's getting it. Yeah.
00:57:22
Speaker
Alright, sorry guys. We're gonna let that pass for just a second. It's kind of loud So this this surgeon comes home after a late night surgery. He notices these two cars are parked in the girls driveway It's about one o'clock in the morning, but honestly Apparently, it's so common for there to be all these extra cars parked in the girls driveway That he didn't think anything about it It he did notice however that there's a very large luxury car that pulled out of the driveway a little after one o'clock in the morning and
00:57:51
Speaker
without their headlights on and it's pouring rain. So he did think that was a little odd, but he thought, eh. Was it Jack? He doesn't want anybody to see his face because he's having an affair, basically. Right. Right. This is what is thought of with the girls. So the next day, October 17th, both Anne and Ruth were scheduled to show up at work, but neither woman would ever show up. The receptionist and Andrew and Andrew were scheduled the next day. They worked together.
00:58:19
Speaker
So the receptionist received a call from Ruth stating that she'd be arriving late. She's so sorry, she slept then. And that was that. A few minutes later, Anne called in to the receptionist and said she wouldn't be in either as she had a last minute trip that she decided to go on. And for three days, no one heard her saw from any of the girls besides Anne and Ruth both calling in to work. On October 19th,
00:58:45
Speaker
1931, about 300 miles away, a night train pulled into Los Angeles from Phoenix. During the trip, the baggage man would move around this large back trunk and he noticed that it smelled funny and the smell was getting worse
00:59:04
Speaker
So he tagged it with a pink tag basically indicating there's contraband suspected because they were having this huge, apparently this was a thing then, but people were smuggling deer meat. And so he tagged it for contraband deer meat for when they arrived, the agents would see the pink tag in LA and deal with this smuggled deer meat.
00:59:28
Speaker
So the bag, the trunk, it was a trunk, black trunk, was taken into the agent's office in LA and he was honestly just trying not to gag as a man and a woman walked in asking where their luggage was. And the guy looked at them and said, do you not smell your luggage? And the woman said, I don't smell a thing. And the agent said that the guy with her looked at her like she had grown two heads like, what do you mean you don't smell a thing?
00:59:57
Speaker
I smell it. So the smell alone proved that she was a liar and the agent said, I need the keys to open your trunk. Well, unfortunately the woman did not have the keys on her husband did, but she was, they were going to go run and get the key out at the train station and they'd be right back.
01:00:15
Speaker
They never came back. Obviously. Spoiler alert. But the agent is sitting there waiting on him and, you know, it's probably about an hour past. And then he notices that there is this dark liquid seeping out of the trunk around the carpet. Decop. So the lady's not come back. So he, you know, this is a suspicious trunk at this point and it's stinking and bleeding all over his floor, he said. So he called LAPD and said, there's a trunk that's stinking and bleeding all over my floor. You need to come look at it.
01:00:45
Speaker
Detective Frank Ryan was almost done with a shift when he, this strange call came in, but he was a 10 year hardened detective and decided he was going to swing by and look. There's a trunk bleeding all over the floor. Who doesn't want to, you know, just see. Yeah, we're going to take a look at this. So in his time at the job, he'd seen plenty of horror and gore, but nothing prepared him for what he was about to see.
01:01:08
Speaker
So he gets to the, he gets to the agent's office and he picks the trunk lock and he opens it and there's all this random stuff on top and there's a quilt. And when he opens the quilt, it's got some blood on it. There sits a woman's head shot straight between the eyes. Wow. Um, beside the head inside the trunk, um, there was the dissected bodies of one and a half women. There were two heads, one torso, two legs, two lower torsos.
01:01:39
Speaker
and two arms. And like I said, one head had been shot, and they had no idea what was going on. But on top of these random body parts in the trunk,
01:01:51
Speaker
There was also all the vital evidence needed to solve this crime. There's a 25 caliber pistol. The bullets and shells both knew and spent bloody surgical tools and scattered throughout all of these items were blood smeared photos of three smiling women at different parties and events. There were Christmas cards for different family members. There was even high school diplomas and a nursing diploma.
01:02:18
Speaker
So it didn't take like a lot of, you know, gumshoe detective work to figure out that in this trunk lie Ann and Sammy. So Detective Ryan's interviewed different employees on the train. He found a strange twist. Multiple employees smelled the trunk. So multiple employees really kind of focused in when they would have probably forgotten on an overnight journey. There was a very small petite woman
01:02:44
Speaker
And every time people would complain about the smell she would always just look I don't smell anything. Are you sure? I don't know anything you need to brush your teeth I don't smell anything like she was just real flippant said that she said you need to brush your teeth. There was that a faithism However, there's also a young gentleman with her that looked like he did every time she'd say these he would literally look at her like she's crazy and
01:03:10
Speaker
Because he certainly knew what they were talking about. There's a bad smell. But he was this young freckled face kid. Like how young? They said, we'll get there. OK. OK.
01:03:21
Speaker
So it didn't take a lot of time for them, the detective to have a really firm grasp on who their, their main suspect was. Right. Number one, there was only a small amount of women traveling overnight from Arizona to LA. Um, so the night the bodies were found, LA police contacted the Arizona PD and went through the list of here's the women. Can you tell us some stuff about them? A lot of the very few women, only one woman on the train knew Sammy and Ann.
01:03:48
Speaker
Ruth worked with Anne and even lived with them. It was the random secretary, wasn't it? I'm kidding. And Ruth hasn't been seen either since.
01:03:58
Speaker
since, you know, this train took off. So it's looking like it's rude, right? Right. Well, she, well, she called in, I guess, pretending to be in then. Well, the police did call and interview the medical receptionist, which she just reminds that she has been like cat eyeglasses with the little Ryan son that's like, let me tell you, hon. Yeah. Way oversharing. So the detective calls and talks to the medical receptionist at Ruth and Ann's job.
01:04:26
Speaker
And she told them the whole thing was just so weird. Ruth called in state and she was going to be late. Then she called in a few minutes later and said she wasn't going to be in at all. And then Anne called in and said she wasn't going to be in. So what kind of employee was Anne? Was she a good employee? Well, you know, she wasn't the best. She wasn't the worst.
01:04:51
Speaker
Just to be honest between friends me and you that i've never met and i'm talking to on the phone but just to be honest. The doctors here were not really happy with her because they didn't agree with her lifestyle if you know what i mean right right. Are you weird like after any point in your life.
01:05:12
Speaker
This is just how I imagined this lady's talking to him. He's like, what do you mean, her lifestyle? She's like, well, you know, her and that Sammy, we're a God-fearing community. And her and that Sammy, they live together. And you know, we think that they might have been together, together, if you know what I mean. So we didn't care for that kind of thing. And the doctors just didn't really trust her because of that.
01:05:41
Speaker
Guys, I wish you could see her face right now. She keeps looking at me and her mouth's all like kind of I can't man. Oh, I really wish this was like video. Sorry, continue. So the detectives like really? And she's like, yeah. But, you know, when Anne called in because the detectives said, well, did you hear Anne calling? And she goes, I did. So what did the doctor say about? She goes, well, I was on the phone the whole time, sugar, don't you know?
01:06:08
Speaker
I don't know if she called him sugar, but in my head, this is her character. So the detector was like, oh, you were. And she's like, yeah, but it's the funniest thing. Do you know what didn't sound a thing like? And it sounded
Ruth as the Prime Suspect and the 'Blonde Butcher'
01:06:20
Speaker
like Ruth. Oh, Mike drop Mike. That's how like. Oh, my gosh, dude. Look real quick, real quick. I can't. You said they were from Arizona.
01:06:36
Speaker
Is that really what that is? I need somebody to tell me what people from Arizona sound like. In the 1930s they were all like traveling from everywhere and you don't know where. Okay, that's all fun. Southern Violet, that's the way I feel in my head. I want you to start that sentence all the way over. I would not like to.
01:06:56
Speaker
All right. I'm sorry. Basically, this broad's telling him, you know, I was, I was going to went and got the doctor because Ruth had already called in. We're already short staff. Now Anne's calling in and something sounded weird anyway. So I got the doctor and I listened in and I'm telling you that wasn't Anne on the phone. That was Ruth calling him, pretending to be Anne, going, I'm sick. Type of deal.
01:07:17
Speaker
So that just threw a monkey rich into the whole the whole spiel. That was a really good transition, by the way. I know, right. Mm hmm. No, it wasn't. I get it. But now the now the detectives don't know what's going on. Like, is this a hate crime, basically, because the women were lovers and it wasn't accepted. That's what I meant by together, together, Wayne, Wayne.
01:07:39
Speaker
I thought you were talking like together together like with Jack. OK, I'm sorry about that. I think that's why they live together. I was too busy listening to your accent. Yeah, they were saying basically that they were lovers in this family oriented, God fearing community. And these two women were in a in a in a loving and they had it so they had it so wrong, guys, because they were ladies of the night, if you will. You don't know that they were ladies of the they they acted like they were ladies of the night. You don't know that they weren't still in love with each other on the sock.
01:08:09
Speaker
Mm hmm. I kind of think they were. I mean, be honest, they lived in a one bedroom house. They shared a mattress. Oh, they said they you said at one point they had three separate matches. Yeah, but they're pushed together a lot. We're going to get there. All right. So Ruth became the number one suspect. She faked this call. She's the last person seen with them. So the detective decides to focus in on this man that was with her, this young man. And they ended up finding very quickly
01:08:39
Speaker
Ruth's brother Burton who attended a university in Los Angeles of all places. So they called him in for questioning and he says, listen, I haven't seen my sister in months. Like we don't talk. We don't, we're not, we're not close. And then all of a sudden she showed up at my campus like a crazy person and told me she needed my car. I had to come help her get her luggage and bring it to the ocean.
01:09:06
Speaker
And I wasn't super comfortable with it, but she's my sister. I love her. So I'm trying to figure out what's going on. And when I asked her, she keeps saying, don't ask questions you don't need to know. Right. And so, um, they're, they keep questioning, but they, they honestly, they rule them out. He knows nothing. And he said, listen, I told my sister, she needs to think carefully about her next step.
01:09:29
Speaker
We left to go get this key that she was going to fabricate, but we didn't fabricate it. And she said, I need money. I got to get out of here. And he said, I have got five bucks. Go with God, basically. Right. He went back to his life. Try to forget the weird situation ever happened. OK. So the detectives are starting a search for Ruth.
01:09:50
Speaker
And that night Late that night a custodian at the at the at the train stations cleaning up and he goes in the women's restroom and behind the door Someone's left a hat box and a little suitcase What do you know? There's the rest of Sammy's body cut up in a piece. Are you serious? So they have to call the LAPD to come back to get the rest of the body that they had finally found The corners report
01:10:15
Speaker
They actually called the detectives back in because they wanted them to see the body. The cuts were so precise on these two women's bodies. They were able to stitch them back together seamlessly to where it looked like they hadn't even been cut besides stitching. Like it was a perfect basically dissection of the what Ruth was a nurse, right? No, Ruth was a secretary. Oh, our name. OK, sorry. So along with the fact that
01:10:44
Speaker
This was so precisely cut up and that Ruth was such a tiny little woman. Detective realized that there's no way she could do this all along. Are we bringing Jack back? We're not. A, she didn't have the skill sets to dissect the body this cleanly. So there had to be at least one man and a doctor involved.
01:11:05
Speaker
And don't you remember Ruth is married to a doctor? Oh, snap. OK. Yeah, I forgot all about that. Her her her husband, Doc, was known to be in L.A. the past couple of months on some benders. Mm hmm. So he is likely the he's the most culpable either she brought the body parts him or she called him. He went and helped her dissect these bodies and brought them back to dispose of them where it couldn't be linked back to Ruth type of deal.
01:11:33
Speaker
So they found her husband, and they brought him into interrogation. He had an airtight alibi. There was no way he could have assisted her at all. Furthermore, he hadn't spoken to his wife and didn't even know she wasn't out of Arizona anymore. And he said there's absolutely no way his sweet angel of a wife could do this. She's a minister's daughter, for crying out loud. She's a God-fearing woman. There's no way she'd have anything to do with this.
01:12:02
Speaker
And he did mention that she, she's a little mentally unstable at times. So they say, what do you mean? She's crazy basically. And he just said, he said, if she honestly had anything to do with these horrific crimes you're saying that she committed, like she mentally would break down. Like she wouldn't be able to handle it. And she would be running crazy through the city. Like she wouldn't be able to conceal herself. There's no way.
01:12:30
Speaker
And so the detective said, well, we need your help to find her. And her husband basically said, I will help you under the condition of when she has found she's put into an asylum for a minimum of one month to get help for her mental wellbeing before trial or anything else. So they agreed.
01:12:49
Speaker
The detectives had no lead, they couldn't find her. They had a grid search from LA to Arizona and every police station in between were looking for this woman across all these state lines, could not find her. Four days later in Walkthrough, she went to a funeral home and turned herself in.
01:13:09
Speaker
Okay. Nope. No one knows why. She just went to a funeral home. Her husband, she called her husband. Her husband went to get her and she immediately starts sobbing and saying, I had to shoot her. I had to shoot her. So they walk into the police precinct and she turns herself in for four days. She was on the lamb, quote unquote, for four days.
01:13:27
Speaker
Ruth claimed she killed her two friends in self-defense. She said that they got into an argument with Sammy and Sammy pulled a gun and threatened to kill her and this this fight happened in the kitchen and the police officers think well that's a real nice story and she said I've got proof look at my hand and showed them her hand where there's a bullet lodged in her hand.
01:13:51
Speaker
Sammy shot me, the bullets still here, I shot them in self defense and was beating me with a, with an ironing board. Like it was, I had to, we were in the kitchen, it was a free for all. And so.
01:14:05
Speaker
Her hand, because she's been on the run, unclean, mentally unstable, honestly, it has Gan Green said it. And the bullet is still legit in her palm. So she gets rushed over to the hospital to have her hand treated. Her husband is with her the whole way. The doctor who treated Ruth said she had bruises all up and down her back, all over her arms and on the back of her leg. And she said that probably happened when Ann was beating me with an ironing board.
01:14:33
Speaker
Legit, this is what happened. So, Ruth testified over and over and over. It was only the three of them. They were in the kitchen, they got in this fight, and the police just didn't really believe it. There's a missing piece here. The police just honestly believe something's missing. However, the press
01:14:57
Speaker
100% believed it. Of course. Ruth was tried in the court of public appearance and she was found guilty. So across the nation, this trunk murderous was front and center of the newspaper. Right. Each story seemed to grow and grow and get a little bit more to where even the New York Daily Mirror claimed that she fed pieces of her friends to her cats.
01:15:24
Speaker
She was nicknamed the blonde butcher, the Trump murderous. And the investigation just, so she's already, the public's basically screaming lyncher. And the police go to the bungalow that Sammy and Anne own together. And unfortunately, Ruth's testimony is just not true.
01:15:47
Speaker
The kitchen is pristine. There's no blood spatter. It's 100% normal. They can't find any like holes where guns went in. There's nothing there. There's nothing's out of order. So they go into the bedroom and both mattresses that were there missing. You can see the indentation on the floor. There's pieces of the carpet that appeared to have just been cut out with scissors.
01:16:10
Speaker
those pieces of carpet were included in the suitcases of the body, bloodied. Right. And there's blood spatter on the base board near where the girls mattress was. So can I just go just for a second? So kind of like what I'm gathering from this is. Even back in the 1800s, is that what I said? 1930. No, is it though? Is it?
01:16:40
Speaker
Even back in the 1930s, people aren't bright. I don't know. Like they're just not bright. And she's like, oh, everything went down in the kitchen. And there's not a there's not even like a frickin drop of blood or even if you cleaned it up. Where's the ironing board that you were whacked with? Where's you know, where's anything? And then all of a sudden you walk into the room and it's like, hey, man, this random carpet squares. No.
Jack's Involvement and the Social Shield
01:17:11
Speaker
I had to pee, but I couldn't make it to the bathroom. So I pee there. The bloody carpet. And then I just cases with the body. I know. I know. That's what I'm saying. Like, like, where's your justification for your story, bro? Yep. So as the investigation continued, the biggest argument in Ruth's defense was that while she might have actually killed the two women.
01:17:32
Speaker
She's so tiny, there's no way that she could have gotten those bodies from upstairs to downstairs. Like, she physically could not move the body. That's a lie. If she cut them into pieces, anything's movable. But they didn't even think she had the... You gotta remember, she had tuberculosis.
01:17:48
Speaker
Uh-huh. So she's weaker. Right. There's no way she could do the physical labor to cleanly slice the bodies and dissect it. I don't know, man. Adrenaline's a pretty powerful thing. Well, they were just saying, the detectives, everyone agreed it's just not possible. Mm-hmm. The county, the court, the county attorney, his name was Lloyd Andrews, agreed with this and even gave a statement to the press, and this is in quotation, from the evidence gathered, it would be foolish
01:18:16
Speaker
It would be foolish to go on the theory that Ms. Judd was responsible alone for these killings. With her slight build, it would be impossible for her to handle the bodies alone. There was, without a doubt, a man involved. So this guy, the prosecutor, is saying it's foolish to think that she didn't have a man assisting her in this, right?
01:18:35
Speaker
Um, so when Lloyd's issued a warrant warrant for Ruth's arrest. Yeah, I'm sorry. He issued a warrant for her arrest, charging her with first degree murder. And he also had two other warrants drawn up for two unknown men. But then a few days later, he changed his story and said this was 100% a solo job by Ruth. 100%. She did this by herself. No one else was involved. Right. Okay. It was foolish.
01:19:04
Speaker
48 hours ago, but now 100% by herself. So, and I'm going to butcher this name, but Jana Bomsurback is an investigating journalist who really took a deep dive into this case and notes and everything related to it and wrote a book in 1991 called The Trunk Murderous. And she was able to shine a light on a lot of things that, you know, kind of backstory, which is how I got most of the backstory. But she, she actually won an award for this book.
01:19:34
Speaker
Um, and so one of the things to point out, the more and more you investigated this case, everything just led right back to happy Jack. That's kind of why I was wondering. I was asking like, okay. Um, did we bring back Jack? Well, you know, Lloyd Andrews that it'd be foolish. And then, then all of a sudden she sold up. He and, he and happy Jack remembers the same country club and golfing buddies, but it had nothing to do with it. Definitely not. Yeah. Nothing, nothing, nothing to do. Um,
01:20:05
Speaker
So the cops are in this like back to the 1930s when it's all going down. The cops don't know what to do. All of a sudden they're in the middle of this weird love quadrangle where you've got Anne and Sammy.
01:20:22
Speaker
and Ruth and Jack, and Jack's apparently having an affair with Ruth, but Ruth saying, Ruth to this point still saying they were just friends. He was a wonderful man. And Ruth was married, and Jack was married. Then you got the two girls that, you know, had the unforbidden love. Right, right. They were milk and Jack for sexual favors to get money. The whole thing's weird. They have absolutely no idea, but
01:20:48
Speaker
Jack's name had gotten out there like it was so while the police have nothing to go on for Jack Ruth is adamant. He had nothing to do
Ruth's Trial and the Verdict of Jealousy
01:20:55
Speaker
with it. He was just a great man, a great friend. The journalists started asking questions, so they asked the court attorney Lloyd. Why is it always the journalists? I don't know that like dig deeper into something and they're like, hey, man, oh, yeah, this doesn't add up. Oh, yeah. So they're asking Lloyd Andrews, the prosecutor,
01:21:17
Speaker
Hey, have you thought of have you thought of Jack? What do you think about Jack? You know, we were told he might be being investigated. And Jack literally laughed at them and said, Jack is an upstanding citizen, a good personal friend and would never be involved in something of this torrid. Who said that? Because you said Jack Lloyd Andrews, Lloyd. OK, because you said Jack's OK. No, you're fine. His friend. Yeah. The prosecutor. All right.
01:21:46
Speaker
So just like Ruth though, the press, so the press started following Jack around asking him 101 questions and labeled him a suspect. They'd follow him around, they'd detail all his little love interests and basically it was a smear campaign but it was it was hushed up pretty quick on Jack's part. Ruth
01:22:12
Speaker
Well, it's the 1930s. Yeah. So it's, you know, the boy boy. Yeah. Ruth.
01:22:18
Speaker
continually denied that Jack was involved. And then actually one night there was this department store like two blocks from the police, the train station and a plumber was called because their pipes were backed up. Oh my goodness. And they pulled out this note in Ruth's handwriting. Oh, okay. I thought it was going to be like a hand or something. Okay. She lived in the department store for the four days. She couldn't be found. That was two miles from the police precinct and the train station.
01:22:47
Speaker
And she just lived in this department store. And she like, when she first went on the run, she was freaking out. She basically wrote a confession note to her husband. And then it said, I know they're gonna blame Jay, but honestly, he's just been a good friend to me and had nothing to do with this. So she, in her own handwriting, basically, at that point, Jack's innocent. He had nothing to do with this. So Ruth, even though her husband had made this deal,
01:23:16
Speaker
was transferred to the Phoenix jail and, um, instead of the asylum. And she did break down finally, once she's in this jail and admitted to her husband, I'm sorry, but I have been having an affair with Jack. Um, doc.
01:23:35
Speaker
I'm sure had a lot of emotions about this, but was unfazed, stood by her side, bought her the best legal counsel he could and never wavered in his support of her. Well, I mean, it was his angel. Well, I'm sure in his benders, he was just going to say that like, you know, guys like, OK, well, I've put you through kind of a lot. So it's still like, yes, and especially back then, guys kind of do what they wanted to and women were supposed to be barefoot naked and cooking dinner, right? Yeah, pregnant. Yeah, I got you.
01:24:04
Speaker
So the prison psychologist, however, is where Ruth started to waver in her undying support for Jack. She started out, he loves me. He's going to take care of everything. He's going to keep his promise.
01:24:21
Speaker
But and that's that's kind of what she said when Jack was brought up to the psychiatrist. He loves me. He's going to keep his promises. He's got everything handled. Everything's going to be fine. He's not going to let me hang. And the psychiatrist finally said, what if this goes sideways and you do hang? And she said, well, if everything doesn't go as planned, then I guess I'll have to tell my tale. Oh, OK. So January 19th, 1932, the trial began in Phoenix.
01:24:47
Speaker
The attorney for prosecution was still Lloyd Andrews, and he opened court with his opening statement just saying Ruth Judd murdered her best friends and cold blood out of pure jealousy over the unrequited love of one man. He went into detail about how it made no sense for Jack, who is a pillar of the Phoenix community, to be involved with this. Logically,
01:25:16
Speaker
If Jack was involved, why would he trust the disposal of these huge trunks of body parts to this frail woman? If he's involved in it, why would he not like, he owns a lumber mill for crying out loud. Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Like, okay. All right. So he would have taken, there's no way he would have not taken care of this himself. It doesn't make logical sense. And it did not.
01:25:41
Speaker
And it makes perfect logical sense in my mind, honestly, because I'm sitting here thinking, all right, oh, I own a lumber yard. I literally could just grind them up. So if nobody would ever hold on like nobody would ever find them truth. Yeah. OK. Well, I would say no. I'm going to tell you why. OK. Because his affair and his romance with these women are over. It's done. He wants them gone. OK. So now he's going to frame Ruth. The other two are dead.
01:26:09
Speaker
He's gonna get away scot-free, Ruth's gonna hang, and he just gets to go back to living his life with his wife, right? And then start it all the way over again. He had other girlfriends this whole time. We're still going. Sorry. Ruth's own attorney could not argue any of these points because they're all valid points.
01:26:27
Speaker
I believe she had Ms. Turd's attorneys, if you want my opinion. They didn't even address the jury. Are you serious? In their opening statements, nothing like never even addressed the jury. He instead attempted to get her off with an insanity defense, which in today's world sounds pretty like a solid. Everybody's insane. She's crazy. But this this defense was very new in the court of law.
01:26:54
Speaker
And while he was very used to getting his way with this insanity defense, he was from L.A. And the people of Arizona did not buy that defense. They're not they're not having any part of it. It's all about culture. Yeah. So on February 8th, 1932, the jury delivered their verdict.
01:27:14
Speaker
Ruth was guilty. No, I was just gonna say. And they ordered her executed by hanging. And the Ruth, the crowd went like insane. Even though the judge had given this big, huge speech and this booming voice, I won't order my courtroom when the verdict is read, we will have order, we will have silence. And when the jury said guilty, they said you could hear everybody. And all the reporters jumped out and were running outside so they could be the first one to call their office to get the story printed first,
01:27:43
Speaker
Everyone was going crazy, but they said Ruth sat there with absolutely no expression. No, nothing. When you say that the court was going crazy, was it like happiness? Was it like I can't believe this? Like what kind of emotion do we know? Honestly, they just said all you could hear were all these gasps. Like nobody could believe it was kind of shocked then. But honestly, every they'd already they said she was guilty. She was the blonde butcher. Right.
01:28:09
Speaker
So then the gasps were almost like like a relief. Yeah. Like everyone was like, we knew it. And they said everybody just proved it. Right. Yeah. And Ruth never made an expression, an outcry, a sob, like literally just sat there lifeless almost. But like in all honesty, if I was sitting there and I was like. Like I would sit there and I just got found guilty of something that I clearly did, like I did it.
01:28:39
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. At that point, I think I feel like I would just like replay almost to kind of rewind. How could you have done the last year of my life and be like, God almighty, like, what was I thinking? Like, why would I?
01:28:59
Speaker
I'm dead. I'm dead. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't have any kind of reaction either because I'd be sitting there thinking like she never appealed it. She never spoke out. She just went to because she knew her small cell at Maricopa County, Arizona in Phoenix. And she stayed in her cell until December 19th. Same year she was she was sentenced in February, December 19th, 1932.
Conspiracy and Manipulation Revealed
01:29:24
Speaker
She walked from her windowless room
01:29:27
Speaker
and sat down with the sheriff, the sheriff's deputy, the prosecutor, her attorney, and a court-appointed, like, recorder person, and for four hours shared her story. Like, let everything out of the bag. So when the sheriff said, Ruth, we need you to tell us what really happened on the night of the murder. And Ruth said, well, you don't want to know about that night.
01:29:56
Speaker
What you want to know about is Thursday night. Thursday night, Ruth, Jack and Lucille Amore were going to dinner. Now Lucille Amore was a patient that came in for several treatments at the clinic where Ruth worked. She became friends with Lucille. Lucille was a sweet girl who loved hunting.
01:30:15
Speaker
And Jack is a known avid hunter. So Ruth introduced the two of them thinking that they could, you know, share hunting stories. I don't know. That part sketches me out. Was that like a new girlfriend then? Like, that's my thing. Like she's pimping out of their girl's tomb kind of in my mind, but we're getting there. I have my own theory. We'll see if your theory lines up. Okay. So on the way to dinner, Jack wanted to just sling by real quick and make a stop at Sammy and Ann's house. Just real quick.
01:30:40
Speaker
All the women got out hug hug kiss kiss. So it was like the whole dinner story Let's hang out thing like a complete fabrication of the truth. We're getting there. Okay, so They stopped at Ann and Sammy's house all the women hug hug kiss kiss and Ruth kind of noticed that Ann quickly excused herself and went right inside Which was odd, but whatever. I mean they weren't besties anymore. So maybe whatever the next day at work and
01:31:06
Speaker
Anne is super chatty to Ruth and invites her over to that peacekeeping meal we talked about earlier. Okay. Um, so Ruth got stood up by Jack, goes over to the girl's house and it, it is, they're all talking and laughing and Ruth says it is just like old time went out of nowhere and eventually asks Ruth, do you know how Jack came to know Lucille more? And Ruth said, yeah, I introduced him. They both are avid hunters. I thought they could be really good friends and
01:31:35
Speaker
And just got this look on her face and said, Ruth, you know, she has syphilis. That's why she's coming in for all these treatments. You know, she has syphilis. Oh, OK. Oh, OK. So Ruth knows that there's the syphilitic patient being treated and is a hunter and a cute little thing and thinks her and Jack could be friends and introduces her to Jack. Jack, who's Jimmy, can't be. Uh, uh.
01:32:02
Speaker
Uh, subdued. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So Sammy and Jack probably has no freaking idea, right? There you go. All right. So Ruth just maintained. Hey, she is this sweet girl. She needed a friend. I thought her and Jack could be really good friends. They have common interests. That's it. Well, Sammy got pissed at this point and state. I know Jack's been over your house almost every night this week, so you should honestly care about the health of his other bed partners.
01:32:28
Speaker
She went even so far as to say that she was going to tell Jack that Ruth was hooking him up with a syphilis patient and Jack was never going to want to see you again. Oh, OK. Well, then then Ruth got pissed off.
01:32:44
Speaker
Right. And said, you know what? All the doctors at the clinic think you two are lovers, and I've been lying to him and telling him you're not. But you know what? I think tomorrow I'm going to say you're right. They've been sleeping together this whole time. How how quickly do you think you're going to get to stay in this town? Oh, yeah. Once everyone knows your dirty little secret. OK. And guys, again, 1930s. All right. Yes, I've just heard things. Yeah. Things are different. So.
01:33:13
Speaker
At this point, these girls were best friends. They lived together. They know each other's dirty secrets. Right. And they're all just I'm telling, I'm telling, I'm telling, I'm telling. And when when Ruth says that she's going to out them to the clinic and just loses her lid and said, I'm going to kill you if you tell anybody, because she would be fired. And she's the only one with a with a quote unquote job. A normal job, right? Because right off the bat is the one that's like almost dead.
01:33:42
Speaker
at this point. Yeah. Sammy can't work. And I mean, they make money with their their gentlemen callers. But for tax purposes, Anne's the only one with a job. And now Ruth is saying she's going to out her and she knows what that means. 1930s. You're a pariah. Yeah. Like your livelihood is basically done. So they're all they're all threatening each other. Anne's pissed. And Ruth says, you know what? I'm out. I'm done. So she goes downstairs and she's in the kitchen and it just kind of dawns on her.
01:34:13
Speaker
If if Sammy tells Jack that she hooked him up with a with a syphilis patient knowing that patient had syphilis, Jack's going to hate her like forever. Right. So and I honestly think she did it so Jack would get syphilis and she would have to take care of him. I would agree. I would agree. That's my theory. It is never stated, but I think she did it as a means to be able to get Jack unlocked. Well, I mean, like legitimately, if if
01:34:41
Speaker
He hooked up with her. He got siblings. He's not going to sleep with his wife. Yeah. The other two are no longer in the other. The other, however, many are no longer. Yeah, he's no longer happy. Jack, the ladies man.
Ruth's Life Post-Trial and the Long Escape
01:34:54
Speaker
Yep. He is sad. Jack roots. Cabana boy, I don't know. So, yeah. So, OK.
01:35:05
Speaker
Ruth said at this point, she's in the kitchen. She's trying to just get herself a glass of milk and calm down when Sammy comes flying in with a gun and threatens her. And the girls are fighting over this gun. The gun goes off, shoots Ruth in the hand.
01:35:21
Speaker
So Ruth picks up a knife off the table and stabs Sammy in the chest. Ann's whacking her with an ironing board, like just beating her up saying, stop it, stop it, stop it. And Ruth, and Ruth, now Sammy's bleeding from the chest where she got stabbed with a butter knife. Ann's bleeding from the hand from where she got shot. They're all wrestling around on the kitchen floor. She gets the gun and she shoots Sammy in the head and then turns in. Ann is still like beating her like Ruth. Sammy is dead on the floor.
01:35:47
Speaker
She's trying to get up to leave and Ann just keeps beating her with the ironing board. She keeps falling down. So finally she's able to get to her knees and shoot Santa in the chest. And then she doesn't know what to do. And she's telling this on the record. She's sobbing hysterically. And she said that she goes to Jack's house. She goes back to her house and what do you know there's Jack finally showed up.
01:36:11
Speaker
And he's sitting in his car drunk as a skunk and she's sobbing and she's telling Jack, I had to kill him. I had to kill him. They were going to kill me. And it was self defense. And she shot me in the hand, looked at my hand and I killed them. I killed them. And Jack just says, what are you talking about? Sammy and Anne, I had to kill them. And Jack basically says, you're crazy. You're drunk. None of this happened.
01:36:37
Speaker
Like some kind of Jedi mind trick. Okay. And Ruth is like, no, you don't understand. I killed them. I shot them. So Jack just says, get in the car. Let me see. So they drive to the bungalow and she leads them in and Jack is still drunk, but he stares at this God awful bloody scene in the kitchen.
01:37:00
Speaker
And without a word, he picks up Sammy's body and carries it upstairs and lays it in the bed. And then he does the same thing with Anne's body. Then he proceeds to mop up the bloody kitchen. So inadvertently, by cleaning up this crime scene in the kitchen, he gave the detectives evidence that Ruth was lying because the kitchen was pristine, but he cleaned it. Right. OK.
01:37:26
Speaker
So they think the murder took place in the bedroom because that's where Jack brought the body. Right. And back then, there's no black light. There's no substance to spray. No. And the biggest theory in her court case was that Ruth in a jealous rage came in and murdered them in their sleep. So he unwittingly gave the defense their their whole case. Completely null and voiding Ruth's self-defense story because none of it added up.
01:37:55
Speaker
So after he was done mopping up the kitchen cleanup, he called a doctor that he knew and asked if this doctor would come treat Ruth's hand. So she's still sobbing and the court reporter is literally just recording her words at this point because she's hysterical. And she said that Jack sent her home. He called this surgeon. And the next day when she went back to the house, the trunk was in the living room. And Jack said that Sammy had had an operation.
01:38:23
Speaker
but Ruth didn't understand how she could have had an operation because she's dead. Right. So Ruth is sobbing and telling them, you know, she's looking at these trunks and looking at Jack and Jack basically looks her in the eyes and says, Sammy had an operation and she didn't make it, right? And Ruth's like, yeah.
01:38:48
Speaker
And he said, here's the deal. I know everybody. I own this town. Keep your mouth shut. Do not go to your husband. Do not go to the police. Do not go to any prosecutors because they're all going to come after you. You're the one with the bad history. Everyone loves me. I employ half the town. Just keep your mouth shut and I'm going to take care of you like the doctor's probably part of like this good old boy club 100 percent where, you know, clearly Jack had something on him.
01:39:15
Speaker
And he's like, hey, man, you help me clean this up. I'll keep my mouth shut. Well, even if you did, they just had this little network where they all covered each other's. And so. OK. So Ruth's crying. And she said he he I was too scared to go to the police. I was too scared to go to the state attorney because he kept talking about the state attorney. But I don't even know what a state attorney is or who he is. And he told me not to call my husband. And I can't mention this to anyone because he's just going to take care of this for me.
01:39:40
Speaker
And they all just kind of stared at her like take care of it means. Yeah. They all realize all these pieces started clicking together. And she's telling the truth. Like everything that didn't make sense, she cleared up in this last statement. OK. So it I mean, really, at this point, they're all just kind of sad because now two women are dead. One woman is set to die in two days from hanging.
01:40:09
Speaker
All because of one of jealousy and and Ruth introducing this syphilis patient to Jack. Like that literally was the last really like the main character here is Jack is Jack the douche. Yep, Jack was there was a hearing against Jack initially. He was exonerated of all charges.
01:40:30
Speaker
Um, in a last ditch effort to save Ruth's life, she was, she was D mentally unfit for execution. So 48 hours before she was scheduled to hang, her sentence was commuted to a mental institution where she lived for the next 30 years. Okay. Now. So did they do that because they didn't want her like, they're like, Hey, you don't share your story.
01:40:52
Speaker
Well, maybe we'll let you off with maybe like a slap on the wrist, not like slap on the wrist, like I know that sucks, like life imprisonment, but it's better than death. But, you know, I don't think that I don't think that's it either, because if you remember when Ruth talked to the psychologist, she said if he doesn't keep his promises, I'm going to tell everything. So she told everything like basically she's dying in a few days. Yeah. And so she's that's never come to see her. Zach's never written her a letter that I meant, Jack.
01:41:23
Speaker
So they they managed to stay. She lived in this mental institution for 30 years. But Ruth had a little bit of a wild side to her. She escaped seven times. I am dead soon. She was actually found once. She had escaped and lived for like almost a whole year as a living maid to this rich family as the state. And they had no idea who she was. Wow. OK. And they found her and they're like, no, no.
01:41:52
Speaker
You come back here now. Come on, Bubby. Yeah, come on. But seven times she escaped and like just lived her life until they caught her. Eventually, in 1971, the governor of Arizona gave her a full pardon and she was able to live out the rest of her life. She did live under a different name. Right. She ultimately died at the age of 93. But
01:42:19
Speaker
That's it. Like, Jack got away scot-free and three women lost their lives over petty jealousy over a guy that was a hundred percent not. Right. The bald, chubby, rich, handsome. Yeah, like he he was a dog. Yeah, I'm sure sleeping with whoever he came into contact with.
01:42:41
Speaker
And these three women, two of them died horrifically and she lived 30 years in a mental institution, occasionally having a little vacation she gave herself. I think it's a struggle that she broke out seven times. I'm bored here. Food sucks. I'm going to go for a while.
01:42:58
Speaker
Can you imagine being the families that learned the trunk murderous was your like cook? Like, can you imagine that? That's not funny. That's that's not funny. I just imagine she had this little mischievous side because they said that she was you know, while she was kind of shy, she had this great sparkling personality. Right.
01:43:18
Speaker
So I'm assuming that she just, you know, dazzled somebody and hop, skipped in a jump.
Reflections on Manipulation and Human Complexity
01:43:22
Speaker
I'm going on vacation. And then when they caught her, she came back like it was never she ever ran from him. I was just going to say it wasn't even a struggle. It was just like, all right, guys, you got me like, yeah, yeah, seven times in 30 years. So like. You look at our two cases, right? And I have like this ultimate control freak, right? Yeah.
01:43:45
Speaker
But then I look at Jack and I'm like, well, you know, he's kind of the same way, only maybe like smarter about it. He's just manipulative. That's what I'm saying. Like, he's smart about it. Like, there's this one guy who's like, I'm just going to manipulate this certain group, right? Yeah. And he's like, I'm going to manipulate or Jack, I'm sorry, get specific, right?
01:44:07
Speaker
I'm going to manipulate anyone I come into contact with. Yeah. Right. And he did have control. He had full control. Oh, yeah. Which is why he got away scot free with everything that he did. And he was he was a pillar of the community. And he had the money to pay his way out of it. And these three girls were single girls making probably under waged. If any waged because Sammy didn't work and worked for both of them. Like.
01:44:34
Speaker
They probably made crap money. It's not like Doc was sending Ruth any money because he had a drug addiction. They didn't talk for years. I will give Doc the credit that he's due. He was there with her when she gave her testimony. Like he was there every step of the way. Yeah. Visit her in prison. Model husband besides the whole. Like substance abuse is kind of a fickle thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like some people are fully aware of the fact that they suck. You know what I mean? And they they try to
01:45:04
Speaker
I think it was kind of a wake-up call from him like right I hadn't been out I mean my sweet cuz he's 22 years older than her too so right sweet young little wife got mixed up with this wild crowd and Now look what happened to her so he's gonna be there for right and when I say like oh, I know I suck like that's just my terminology for like I Know I'm not doing the right thing. You know what I mean? And so I like I personally well, that's what I tell myself like alright, that's that sucks like yeah, I
01:45:34
Speaker
Um, you know, but from his perspective, despite his addiction, despite his, uh, failure, I guess, as a husband, right? He still was like, no, no, no, no. She needs me. I'm going to be there. Well, yeah. But it was also more important for him to be there for her than it was to
01:45:58
Speaker
Do what he was doing. You know what I mean? I just, I gotta be honest with you. I hate that Jack got away a hundred percent stock free. And you don't know how many other lives he destroyed. Cause I gotta be honest with you. I think he still went back to his little thing. Cause he, she didn't miss the whole syphilis thing until a year later almost. Right.
01:46:19
Speaker
And we don't even know if he slept with that chick or not. I'm sure he did. And then spread it around, spread the love. Because he was, you know, I just. Yeah, that's my story. That's Arizona. You know. It's like. We talk about just the extent that the human mind can go. Yeah. And so for Jack, it was limitless.
01:46:46
Speaker
Right. All about Jack. It never it was limitless, but it was limited to himself. He never thought about anyone else. Not his wife, not his kids. But for Simmons, it was this is a means to an end. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that like, that's why I say there will never be. Nobody will ever fully understand the human mind. Because you have one guy who will kill
01:47:16
Speaker
16 people, 14 of them being his own flesh and blood. And then you have one guy. Who basically is responsible for the death of three women. Two women, two, I'm sorry, two women, one, but one lost her life. That's when I'm kind of, yeah, yeah, insinuating in at that and he doesn't care, right?
01:47:40
Speaker
And like so Simmons gave himself up because he's like, OK, mission accomplished. Right. And then there's Simmons or I'm sorry, Jack, who's like, you know what? I can live out the rest of my life, man, and just do what I want, say what I want, whatever. And, you know, guaranteed, obviously. This was generations apart. OK.
01:48:02
Speaker
but that same mind frame is still apparent in today's society. Screw that mindset. The girls, the three girls vying for the one guy's attention, fighting with each other,
01:48:14
Speaker
causing all this turmoil and these fights and breaking up a friendship over one guy who's married. How many times does that happen today? I was just going to say, if that's not like a 2022, 2021 scenario, I don't know what is. You know what I mean? Every single person listening at least knows of one person who has gotten in a fight with a friend over a guy. Right. And then it's not even just that, but like even like
01:48:40
Speaker
And I'm going to say it, guys, and you can agree with me, you can not agree with me, whatever. But I feel like relationships nowadays, it's almost borderline stalking. And it's you have to know where your partner is at 24 seven. And like, that's probably the reason I'm still single.
01:49:00
Speaker
Like I, I can't handle that. Like it's a hundred percent. If you're going to, if you're going to sit here and call me 15 times when I'm in a meeting at work, like I can't, I cannot handle that. It's worse than that. This is a legit true story. One of the guys I work with, he's got two college A's sons, both very attractive, very smart, very athletic. Like they both got, one got a full ride to Brown and one got a full ride to like yell smart and athletic.
01:49:26
Speaker
And he told me this story and he was like, is this normal? What do you think about this? My, my son's been dating this girl off and on for like two years and they're back together. He said she's a beautiful girl. He is a very attractive young man. Right. And he's smart. He's at class one day and she goes, she's apparently spent the night at his place.
01:49:45
Speaker
found his Apple Watch, his old one, charged it and then turned it on so she could look at his text messages and then accused him of cheating on her a year before when they weren't even together.
01:49:57
Speaker
And I said, no. A, she's rifling through his drawers. Number two, she found a mobile device and charged it just to get access to text messages that were a year ago. No, she's a bucket of yuck. She's crazy. He doesn't need to be with her. He could be better. Oh my gosh.
01:50:17
Speaker
Like it's a hundred percent. You can find out where everybody is whenever they are. Facebook logs in everywhere. You take pictures. You know, you've got all these tracking apps. No, they even have like Apple like sells little like tracking devices. Yeah. For what? Because nobody trusts nobody. And we think we are so important all of our daily.
01:50:41
Speaker
Ablutions need to be put on the internet for everybody to read about. I don't care what chicken sandwich you had for lunch. No, not even a little bit. I like to get on Facebook to watch funny videos and look at pictures and that's it. And Faith, Faith, of all people knows that I, Lisa, I have a rule. What's my rule, Faith, when it comes to calling someone? You call three times, I better be in a ditch. Yeah. If you call me three times in a row,
01:51:10
Speaker
It better be an emergency. Two times means it's important. Yeah. And who calls these days? You just text. But yeah, I 100% agree. But it's totally irrelevant. Guys, come on, man. Wow. OK. You know what my honest opinion is about it? Go. Even my husband, who I'm married to, and I love dearly, and I trust with my whole heart,
01:51:36
Speaker
If they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat and there's no amount of like detective work and stalking and and prying that you can do to stop it. If they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat. Yeah. So live your life and be happy. And if you catch them, believe them. Right. Like. And that's what I'm saying to you. Like, y'all like give them give them an ultimatum. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. And be like, look, you cheat on me. And I find out about it.
01:52:05
Speaker
It's over. It's just over. If you cheat on me and I find out about it, I'm telling my dad and brothers, and they're going to kick your butt, because my brothers are huge. And if I wind up with herpes, you're dead. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. I'm going to, I might not kill you, but you'll definitely be breathing out of a straw. But my point is, all the jealousy, you're talking to her. What were y'all talking about? Let me look at your text message. Who cares? If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat, and you don't need to be with him anyway. Right.
01:52:32
Speaker
And if he's going to cheat with your best friend, A, she's a piece of crap. You don't even be friends with her and you need to dump his butt. You don't dump, you don't stay with him and blame it all on her because guaranteed it was a two way street. And if you don't know that person and they didn't even know and relied to about it, it's not their fault. Absolutely.
01:52:52
Speaker
Absolutely. It's that person's fault. It's not your fault. You did nothing. Now, some people could have done something wrong in a relationship, but don't beat yourself up like, oh, well, you know, my house wasn't, I wasn't the best cook or I, you know, let myself go. It's not your fault. If he's a piece of crap, I'm going to cheat. He's going to cheat. And you're better than that. And you can do better than that and go find you a funny fat guy. There you go. Because they'll love you and treat you like a queen. Absolutely. Even though my husband's in shape.
01:53:20
Speaker
But I'm just saying. But in my humble opinion, we won't go there. Yeah, I lived with him for too long. Yeah. So guys are either way. Good stories, though. They were good stories. I didn't care for yours. Yeah. No, mine was definitely way worse. No. Well, yeah, mine was kind of worse. Mine was entertaining, though. Yeah, I kind of I did rush through mine a little bit, but that's only because it's a good thing because I went an hour and a half.
01:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, you're a rambler. I do not know the definition of mini summer episode. But you know what? If you're on a car trip across the country to go on family vacation, I just filled two hours of your time while your kids and husband are sleeping. You're welcome. You put your headset in, though, because probably shouldn't be like a
01:54:15
Speaker
a group family. That's what I do. I put my I put my earbuds in while I drive in and Bella and Frankie sleep and I listen to my podcast and then Frankie tries to talk to me. I'm like, sheesh, we're at the good part. I know my forehusband. But so, guys, like real quick, we've not gotten any kind of response from anybody. We just want to know like whether or not you even enjoy. What you're listening to. I know we've got quite a few followers or well, listens really at this point.
01:54:44
Speaker
Yeah, but if you would just start following us so we know. Do you like the content? Do you like the stupidity of it all? I know that we we definitely have a lot of humor inside of something morbid, but at the same time, it's not. It's not victim shaming and it's not condoning anybody's behavior. It's more or less just faith is faith and Lisa's Lisa.
01:55:11
Speaker
And I have the mind of serial killers. True. I could be one if I was morally bent. Morally bent. Yeah. But I heard a saying one time, I think it was like the Pitch Perfect crew and they were like, everybody has a serial killer trait. Yeah. And I'm sitting here like, oh my God, I have too many. So we'll leave you on that note. What is your serial killer trait? If you made it to the end of this episode and you think
01:55:39
Speaker
I don't like you guys at all. That's fine. We appreciate that. Don't go give us a negative view. But if you'd send us an email to TwistedTalesTrueCrime at gmail.com and tell us what we could have done better. We're growing. We'd appreciate it. And if you think that we're at least halfway decent, like you don't want to bash your head and listen to us.
01:55:58
Speaker
Just lie and give us a five star review and follow us on Spotify and don't ever listen to us again. That's fine. We'd like you to. Yeah. But if we could get some likes and follows, we'd bump up in the algorithms. At least that's what everybody says. Right. And we just, you know, we want to know. It's not just for like likes or anything. Like we just want to know.
01:56:19
Speaker
Is anybody listening to this? I'm a survivor. Are there any other survivors? And no one talks. You should edit that out. That was totally lame. Unless I'm watching The Walking Dead and they do that a lot. Oh, OK, good. I'm watching Queen of the South. They don't do that.
01:56:44
Speaker
Well, I hope you guys have a great week. I hope you enjoyed the stories and we will see you in a few days because we're dropping. I was just going to say, I was just going to say we'll drop Thursday and then again. So we got to go research. Oh, all right. Bye. Peace.