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EP152: Adam Larson - The National Widower's Organization - You Don't Have To Go Through It Alone
89 Plays4 months ago
"So here, six and a half years later, I’m a better person. And I’ve grown as a human being. I’ve done a lot of work, I put the time in. I found a place to put my feet down, I found a place to stand up, I found some solid ground to put my feet on and I found a community to connect with.”
Have you ever felt completely lost and alone after a devastating loss? How do you even begin to pick up the pieces? Do you know how men cope with the immense grief of losing a spouse? How do they navigate the overwhelming responsibilities of single parenthood while dealing with their own loss?
Many of us have faced or know someone who has faced the heart-wrenching experience of losing a loved one. Many men struggle with grief, feeling like they have to shoulder the burden alone. Grief is universal, but society often overlooks male grief, leaving men without the support they need during some of the toughest times in their lives.
Adam Larson is a dedicated advocate and board member of the National Widowers Organization. He shares his personal journey of navigating life after the sudden loss of his wife and how he found support through the National Widowers Organization, and discussing the importance of acknowledging male grief, finding support, and the different ways men cope with loss.
If you or someone you know is struggling with grief, remember, you're not alone. Reach out to the National Widowers Organization for support and resources. Visit their website, join a webinar, or connect with others who understand what you're going through. It's okay to grieve, and it's okay to seek help.
You’re invited to come to a Sovereign Circle meeting to experience it for yourself. To learn more, go to https://www.sovereignman.ca/. While you’re there, check out the Battle Ready program and check out the store for Sovereign Man t-shirts, hats, and books.
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Transcript
Adam's Personal Loss and Challenge
00:00:00
Speaker
i was My wife, she just suddenly passed away one night, having to tell your four small children, trying to navigate through of being a single dad, just helping men because men and grief is different. You know, a lot of times men and grief is overlooked. Most people cannot comprehend what you've just experienced. And unless you connect with somebody who's been on that level with you, a lot of times you just feel like you're alone. Hey, you're not alone. There's other people who've gone through this. and we're here to support you and stand with you.
00:00:33
Speaker
You're a man living in the modern world in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were. You live life on your own terms. You're self-sufficient. You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum. When life knocks you down, you get back up. Because in your gut, you know that's what men do. You're a badass and a warrior. And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you who you really are.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:01:03
Speaker
Welcome to Sovereign Man podcast where we aim to make men masculine again. I'm your man, Nicky Baloo. And we have a special guest, Adam Larson of the National Widowers Organization. Welcome Adam. Thank you, Nicky. Glad to be here.
Involvement with National Widowers Organization
00:01:20
Speaker
Good to have you. So Adam, um why don't you start by telling us your backstory in so far as your involvement with the National Widowers Organization is concerned?
00:01:32
Speaker
Sure. i it' It's not a something that I was excited to join to be a part of about six years ago. um i was My wife, um who I've been married to for about 13 years at the time, she just suddenly passed away one night and I became a widower. And it was ah it was probably one of the hardest nights of my life and then the next morning was even worse because having to tell your four small children that their mother passed away the next day was probably even worse than actually participant participate like you know you can't really measure what's worse or not but those two moments were probably some of the worst moments of my life
00:02:17
Speaker
And, you know, what ensued those following months was trying to navigate through, you know, life of being a single dad and ah what all that looks like and all that entails. And you have, you know, anytime you go through anytime something with grief, you know, there's lots of people who show up and say, hey, we're here for you. And then as the months go along, that that ah that that fades away and you're kind of left with what am I supposed to do with everything else and ah there was a friend of ah my family who had lost his wife years before and he gave me a recommendation of a book and then finding that book and looking out through different things in that book
00:02:56
Speaker
I ah came to a website called the National Whittler's Organization, which had a Whittler to Whittler
Board Contribution and Educational Efforts
00:03:03
Speaker
network. So they would pair with somebody else who had lost a partner or a wife, and had in ah this particular person had kids as well, and we we connected And we started chatting. And in those conversations, we actually became really close friends. So this man who I met through that through that organization, we became the best of friends. Fast forward a few years, ah probably about three years ago, I think it is now, they were doing a survey. And I said, hey, this this organization was great. I'll participate in the survey. And in doing the survey, they reached out to me. And I and i had some conversations with ah the executive director there. And she said, hey,
00:03:38
Speaker
Do you want to join our board? Because we need help with education. And something I do professionally, I i manage ah adult learning education. I produce webinars, podcasts, ah stuff like that. And then so in that, i I joined the board so that I could help them kind of grow their network, grow their um ah grow their education. So I help them put on monthly webinars, just helping men because men in grief is different. You know, a lot of times men in grief is overlooked by society. We think that only women grieve, but men grieve as well. we ah Men grieve. It's okay for men to cry. It's okay for us to grieve. and But we grieve in it we might grieve in a slightly different way. And so ah looking at it from the masculine, the male perspective, um we we try to we try to put on sessions each month and just try to get the word out there like, hey, men, it's okay to grieve.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's okay to grieve, it's okay to feel your feelings, and it's okay to be out there and and work through things. You know, a lot of times men, when they lose their wives, they don't know how to do laundry, they don't know how to cook. You know, sometimes we try to give practical advice. Or, you know, we just try to give, like, try to look at things from just a different perspective, because a lot of the content out there is for widows only, and it doesn't apply
Connecting Widowers and Providing Resources
00:04:48
Speaker
to men. And so ah that's what ah the goal of the organization is, try to get the word out there and try to say, to help men, ah you know, know that it's okay to grieve and it's okay to be there and be in your feelings and and connect with other men who are going through the same thing. How many widowers are there in the United States or in North America that you're aware of? Does does the organization keep those types of stats?
00:05:13
Speaker
Oh man, um I don't have those stats. I know that those stats are available um through some of the different ah or ah health organizations that are out there, but it is in the thousands. I do know that that there at each year that there are many, many thousands of widowers who are created each year. um I don't have the exact stats though. And the organization, the National Widowers Organization, how many men does it serve in any given year with the various programs as it put on? So we we connect with ah thousands of widowers each year. um So we have the National Widowers Organization and we've also started the Men's Grief Network. And so both of those and through different organizations, we try to touch as many widowers as we can. um You know, we we may get 10, 20 people on a webinar each month.
00:05:59
Speaker
um But then that reaches you know hundreds after that through as we put them on YouTube and stuff like that. But ah we get thousands of widowers coming to our website each year. And you've mentioned that men face very different issues when they lose their wives than women do when they lose their husbands.
Grief and Societal Norms for Men
00:06:20
Speaker
Why don't we break that down so some men can understand ah what you're talking about? Yeah, I think it a lot of it connects back to just that um how society and how we have ah placed men as like, oh, you're these stoic ah you's these stoic stones and you don't feel anything. And a lot of times when men go through great loss, they don't they've never dealt with their feelings before.
00:06:48
Speaker
they've never embraced, hey, it's okay to feel that terrible loss. like when you When you lose a partner or a wife, like sometimes it feels like you have this massive pressure on your chest that is that is never gonna go away. You feel this huge weight on you because suddenly, and especially when you have when there's kids involved, that's a whole nother realm because not only have you lost a partner, a lot of times your wife is your best friend, you've lost this this this person you bounced all your ideas off of, suddenly that person is gone and you have to make all these decisions. you know i have I've had ah colleagues who you know who are like, I didn't even know how where where my wife kept all the decorations for Christmas and I wanted to keep that up for my kids. you know There's things like that where a lot of times running the household, men give that leave that up to their wife, hey, you do the day-to-day, I'll go work, you know and that that traditional that traditional household. But sometimes it it really takes um it really takes you embracing, hey,
00:07:44
Speaker
I have these feelings and and understanding what these feelings are, understanding that it's okay to have those feelings and then learning how to work through them, how to deal with them. Some men go into such deep, deep grief and depth depression that they don't know how to climb out of that. and And a lot of times men don't like to seek, don't like to ask for help. and and And it's coming to terms with like, hey, it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to feel the feelings that you're feeling because you if you don't face those feelings head on, you're just going to bury them and they're going to come out in a and probably a negative way later. And then also just being able to um
00:08:22
Speaker
ah being able to just face whatever you're facing because it's so easy to say, Hey, I'm just going to jump into work. I'm just going to do these things and distract myself. And if you don't embrace the feelings and the things that you're, you're being faced with that grief head on, it's, it's going to really, it's going to be really difficult for you to kind of move forward. But. it's it's overcoming that initial thing of, hey, it's men don't cry, men don't do this, men don't do that. I think we need to stop with those labels of men don't do and just say, hey, it's okay to feel feelings, it's okay to cry, it's okay to
Community and Support for Widowers
00:08:54
Speaker
it's okay to embrace that, hey, i I'm not okay right now.
00:08:58
Speaker
and I need to deal with that. And and it's learning to like, you know, there's gonna be so many people come out and say, you know, there's so many people who have suggestions for you when you when you lose somebody. But unless you've lost somebody so close as ah like a wife or a partner, you the most people really understand what you're going through. And that's why it's really important to either find a group, a group that you can connect with, you know, you can there's the the men's grief network with it. And we also we have lots of resources out there where you can connect with different people or find different groups in your area, whether it's an online group where you can connect with other people who who've gone through what you've gone through, because when you go through something that traumatic, most people cannot comprehend what you've just experienced.
00:09:42
Speaker
And unless you connect with somebody who's been on that level with you, a lot of times you just feel like you're alone. And the biggest thing that we like to do at the the Men's, ah the National Widows Organization is to say, hey, you're not alone. There's other people who've gone through this and we're here to support you and stand with you. And, you know, regardless of your religious affiliation or how you're what you believe, what happens after death, there's people who are here still alive with you, and they're here with you, and they're here to connect with you. And I think that's the biggest thing that we want men to not forget is, it's okay, you're not alone. Because that's that's the hardest part, is you feel very alone in those moments, especially after you've lost somebody so close to you. Yeah, that's powerful. That's actually a good name for the episode, you're not alone.
Supporting Children Through Loss
00:10:28
Speaker
um How does a widower deal with helping the children cope with the loss? Oh, that that is not easy. And even six years, ah six and a half years after it, I'm still learning that um one of the biggest things that I had to I had to first in myself see, hey, Adam, you need to you need to face your grief head on. You need to deal with what you're dealing with so that you can be present for your children.
00:10:58
Speaker
um Because a lot of times, it's it's so hard because depending on what the ages are, it's very different. Like if you have adult children, that's a whole different thing than if you have small children. Like all my kids were under the age of 12. When it happened, I had four children. My youngest was three who didn't quite understand what just happened to mommy. And suddenly he's just, you know, he, he wants to cuddle with me. And so as a man, you're suddenly have to be, you have to be the, they have to be both parents. You have to be the nurturer, you have to be the discipliner, you have to be all, you have to suddenly be all the aspects of what a normal, like what a typical two parent household would be. Cause a lot of times, you know, parents split responsibilities and do different things suddenly because a lot of times men don't always aren't always naturally the nurturers.
00:11:43
Speaker
You know, the women are more naturally the nurturers and ah and most cases in most relationships. Now, all relationships are not the same. So, you know, everybody has different experiences and people have different abilities. But with the kids, it's really ah making sure you're present for them, making sure that you're getting them the help that they need. knowing that it's okay to find grief counselors and ah people to kind of help them be able to express their feelings. I think for the kids, the biggest thing is helping them get to a place where they can express their feelings because children ah hide things, they push things down, and maybe they don't know how to express themselves either.
00:12:17
Speaker
And so learning to get them to express themselves, learning to get them to help process what happened and be able to talk about it. And I think that was the biggest thing is getting them to a place to talk about it. And then actually, you know it took a few years for my kids to even come to a place where they could talk about it. we We talked about it in little ways, but it took a few years for us to find the right method. Now, sometimes um i've had I've had colleagues at the NWO and the board, ah other board members who said they were able to find um counselors who came to their house and talk to their kids. I didn't have that luxury. There weren't counselors that I could find. I just had to you know kind of pick my way through things. So each situation is different. some Different cities have different have different ah resources that are available. but
00:13:00
Speaker
I think the biggest thing is being present for those kids and getting them as much support as you can because the you just lost a wife, a partner, a best friend, a lover. You've lost that, right? But these kids have lost their safety net, right? And now all of a sudden they have these new fears. like Am I going to lose my dad too? Am I going to lose my grandfather? They suddenly understanding loss in a whole different way that they've never thought about before. That and in my opinion, kids shouldn't have to think about, but yet sometimes that that's what life deals with us and your kids are going to be much stronger for it. And what I've what i've tried to instill in my children is, hey, you've been through some of the greatest trauma that anybody can ever go through by losing a parent at such a young age.
00:13:43
Speaker
but someday when you're 18, 20, 25, 30, you're gonna be next to somebody who's gonna walk through that and you're gonna be able to stand next to them and say, hey, I've been there. Let me hold your hand a little bit. You know, so it's trying to teach them that not only they can grow from this and they can become better people because of it, but someday they're going to be of the one walking next to that, that next person and help them because hey, showing them again, like I said before, you're not alone because there's always somebody else who's gone through what who's walked the road that you've walked. And that person will come into your life for just a short period of time, walk with you. And maybe they're not a lifelong friend. Maybe they move on and do something else.
00:14:21
Speaker
But there's always that that i I find that as I go through different life experiences that I i i run into people who who've kind of walked the same journey and we walk a little bit together and sometimes they become friends for a long time. Sometimes they're just a small part of my journey. And I've really tried to instill that in my kids as well.
00:14:42
Speaker
That's a very thoughtful answer. So what about dating?
Dating as a Widower
00:14:50
Speaker
When does that enter the picture? Does it enter the picture? there' I'm sure there's men that don't date after this and there's men that do date after this. What are the do's and don'ts of dating for a widower? Oh, man, that's a we could do a whole podcast or webinar just on that subject alone, because each person grieves differently. And I think the before I get to the whole dating thing, you need to remember that grief and time
00:15:19
Speaker
Each person is completely different because you know one person may be ready to date you know a year after they lose their wife. Another person may be ready not may not be ready to date for six years after they lost their wife. And there's no shade or problem with either one of those choices because each person grieves in their own time, they grieve in their own space, and you can't you can't judge. And I think we need we as a society need to get away from judging people on their grief because every person has their own grief journey. And you can't assume just because somebody lost their wife six months ago that they're perfectly fine and everything's okay six months later. No, everybody, like I still get hit with random spots of grief even now six and a half years later.
00:16:02
Speaker
And, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean I can't move forward. It's not moving on. You move forward. You never move on from you losing a wife. There's always going to be that hole in your life, but you, you at some point have to move forward and continue to live your life. And, you know, for, uh, for some people it's, it's getting to a place where you're recognized that, Hey, I'm not trying to replace my wife. I'm not trying to replace my children's mother. I'm learning to get into a new relationship with a new person. And I'm seeing what this new person will bring into my family and somebody who will be a new mother, a new partner for me and a new mother for my children. But somebody who's not, I think that's the biggest thing I had to learn too is like, I'm not replacing them. Because you know I went on my first date probably like six, like about six months afterwards.
00:16:56
Speaker
Was I ready? No. Was it a little bit kind of um kind of rushed? Probably. But for me, it was just one of those things where it was somebody that I knew, I had known for a long time. And I think I just wanted to see, did i like did it you know was was I still able to do this kind of thing? you know And we dated for a little bit, but I i think i kind of i was trying to i was finding I was looking for comfort. And I think I was looking for that comfort in a way that um that was not long lasting, it was just a temporary kind of dating situation. And so each person, and so for me, I i ended up finding my current wife through a website called eHarmony. Now, I was one of those people who would make fun of eHarmony growing up, but you know what?
00:17:45
Speaker
the the the way that they connected people and the in the the the surveys you have to fill out and everything, it really actually helped me find somebody who was I was really connected with. And my current wife and I hit it off, and and very quickly did i I knew, hey, I think this is the right person. And after she met my kids and I met her son, i ah we really re really, so now we have a beautiful blended family here three ah about ah three years later. you know So it's ah it's a beautiful thing, but I think that's the biggest thing is that each person is different and there's tons of literature out there. There's a great guy, um Abel, I can't remember his last name, um but he's written a lot of books about dating a widower and dating as a widower. And I think the biggest thing is is not to rush, take your time. You'll know when you're ready and it's okay to go on dates. It's okay to you know have little flings here and there because you're learning how to do this again. Like for me, I hadn't dated since high school.
00:18:39
Speaker
I didn't know how to date in the 21st century. I'm my first wife. We were high school sweethearts. We we dated through. That must have been really horrible for you, bro. Oh, it was. It was. I i feel like I lost a part of myself. Yeah. Yeah. um You know, this whole thing about flings. I think men should have flings when they're single. ah Not when you're married. Don't have flings when you're married. Of course. b be Be committed to your wife. So we're not saying that. Just be real clear on this. All right? I don't want some idiot to come and say, Nick, you said I could have a fling. No. Not if you're married, dumbass. Don't have a fling if you're married. But if you're single, I think a man should have a fling. I think it's good for the soul.
00:19:26
Speaker
I maybe mean, two or three or five or 10. Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with that because you're learning how to love again. You're learning that, Hey, you can love again. I think from what I had to learn was I could love again, that it was okay to, to, to have feelings for another person. Because if you think about it from a marriage perspective, like I was fiercely loyal to my wife. And once she passed away, my, my, my marriage commitment and my vow that I had made had been fulfilled.
00:19:59
Speaker
and And I think what a lot of men struggle with is after they've lost their wife is they feel like they're cheating on them. They feel like they're doing all these things, but you have to remember, you fulfilled your vow and your commitment to her. And so now once you're once you're ready, and that's my biggest thing is you have to be ready. right Because if you're not ready, don't rush it because you'll spend your whole time talking about your dead wife to this new person and- Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. now you'll you may find somebody who is wonderful and who understands. Like a ah my best friend who I met through the widow, widow, widow network, he married a lady who had lost her husband. So they both kind of understood what it meant to lose that that that spouse. But then also you have to be able to like, it's okay. Like my my current wife is okay. Like, hey, she understands that the kids lost their their their their birth mom.
00:20:50
Speaker
And we have a little, like a little part in our living room that has our picture and we have, we we don't, we're never afraid to talk about her. But it's also like, you don't also, like you don't also want to overwhelm somebody saying, Hey, oh yeah, I just lost my wife and da da da da da. Hey, let's have a date. And it's like, you know, you have to figure out the best way to use those information, right? Yeah. yeah no I think it's ah think it's important for a man to ah not overshare. I think in general, not just in if he's a widower, but in general, a man should not overshare.
00:21:28
Speaker
ah Women overshare. That's their thing. They're good at it. We don't overshare. We don't need to overshare. We can be we can be we can share. We should share. But oversharing? No. no no like If your girl is like a girl, a girl's girl, a feminine woman, she's going to want to talk a lot. You should let her talk a lot. She should be talking 80% of the time and you should be talking 20% of the time. That's a good ratio with a feminine woman and a masculine man because they love it. They love telling you about their day. They love telling you about everything and you should just be listening and nodding sympathetically. And when they ask you a question, you should answer it and you should have something to say. But oh my God, let me tell you about my dead wife for 30 minutes. Yeah, that's a bad call. That's a bad call. But if the relationship continues and you are going to marry this person,
00:22:14
Speaker
then you're more sure you it's okay to shit like it's in your first two or three dates. No.
00:22:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah, you should be honest. Say yes, I am like I was married at one point. You know, it's okay to share that but you don't need to you don't need to get into the nitty gritty. Let me tell you about the saga of me and my beloved you know. Oh my god. A poor girl is going to sit there going, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into, right? And that's important.
Advice on Community and Emotional Confrontation
00:22:45
Speaker
No, it's it's my belief that there's a lot of men in the world period that are feeling lost and alone. And I'd like you to maybe help us wrap up and land the plane on this episode by talking about that. What uniquely
00:23:05
Speaker
is there for a widow or especially a newer widower that makes him feel lost and alone. And what is your straight up advice to him on what he needs to do to make sure he doesn't do something stupid like take his own life? Yeah. Oh man. Cause when you lose a spouse, it's, it's definitely, you go to a very dark place and it's not all sunshine and roses, even six years later and being married again, it's still not sunshine and roses. There are certain times of the year that I still get those heavy feelings because it's, it's a hole that's always there. But you know, if you've just lost a ah spouse and you kind of feel like you're floundering,
00:23:46
Speaker
I think the biggest thing is to find a place to put your feet on to, whether that's a men's group where you can connect with other men who've lost a wife or ah men who can just stand with you um ah or or it's like a local, ah your local religious church, like a church or a mosque or a temple, whatever, whatever religion you believe in, you know, whatever that place is, find a place to stand up and and put your feet down. Find a community because You are not alone. There's thousands of men out there who lose their who've lost their buys. But remember, you're not alone. You know, i i'm I'm standing here as a as a ah board member of the National Woodrowers Organization telling you you're not alone. And i I talk to, you know, hundreds of men each year um reminding them that they're not alone, as as I help facilitate these webinars, because it it's a very dark place.
00:24:43
Speaker
But there is light out there and you just have to look for it. And and and remember that there's people there who are there because you you can go to a dark place. There are vices that you can grab you can navigate to. Some people go to drinking, some people go to drugs, some people go to hookers, some people just, there's so many different things out there that you can do to kind of try to hide away the pain. But remember that the pain will always be there and that over time it does get easier. but you cannot run from it. Don't run from your pain. Don't run from the emotions that you're feeling. Find a place to so set your feet down and face that face those emotions head on. And over time, little by little, it gets a little easier. Does it ever go away? I don't think it'll ever go away, that deep seated feeling. I've talked to men who've lost their wives 20 years ago and they still feel that hole in their life.
00:25:44
Speaker
But they're in a great place now. I'm a better man now. and And it's weird to say this. I've become a better man since losing my wife. I've grown as a human being. I've become a better person because I lost her. And I don't ever want to say that I would want to lose her. But would I change anything right now? My kids are in a huge are an amazing place right now. They've grown. I've grown. I feel like I'm a better person now. in And I can't say that's because I lost my wife. But if I hadn't lost her, I wouldn't have gone through all the things I'd gone through to get to the place where I am today. So here, six and a half years later, I'm a better person. And I've grown as a human being.
00:26:31
Speaker
And it's not because I didn't do any work. yeah I've done a lot of work. I've put the time in, but I found a place to put my feet down. I found a place to stand up. I found some solid ground to put my feet on and I found a community to connect with. And I think that's the biggest advice I would give to somebody who is who is just getting to this place. Amen. Amen. Good friend of mine, a man who's a mentor to me as a man, he lost his beloved two years ago and what helped him through it as having men around him. That's what helped him through it. And I think every man listening to this, if you're a widower or you've lost your beloved for one reason or another, consider the National Widowers Organization and share this episode with somebody who's going through loss and pain. Help them not take their own damn life. There's far too many men go there and kill themselves. We don't want them. We want them to stay alive.
00:27:31
Speaker
Adam Larson, thanks for coming on the show building. Thanks so much for having me. It was an honor to talk with you, Nicky. God bless, and that's all right. Thank you for listening to the Sovereign Man Podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and become the man you've always wanted to be, we invite you to join the movement at sovereignman.ca.