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EP188: Michael Ostrolenk - How To Create A Second Chance In The Second Half Of Your Life
87 Plays7 days ago
“Forces that are destructive to the family. And I do look at them with a critical eye and a lot of those things need to be reformed. But I also think in parallel with that, there’s a growing recognition of the individual within.”
For many men, the second half of life brings an unexpected reckoning. Divorce, career changes, or personal loss force a decision: stay stuck in old patterns or take charge of a new future. Reinvention isn’t about reclaiming the past—it’s about stepping into your fullest potential. Thriving in this next chapter requires resilience, self-examination, and the right brotherhood to push you forward.
Michael Osterling has guided countless men through life’s toughest transitions. With decades of experience as a therapist and coach, he helps men rebuild their identity by strengthening their body, mind, and emotional resilience. He believes in the power of masculine-only spaces where men can challenge each other and grow.
With nearly 30 years as a therapist and 25 years as a coach, Michael has worked with elite military leaders and now co-runs Resilience Optimized, helping men reclaim their strength and purpose.
Resilience Optimized: https://www.resilienceoptimized.com/
Movenet: https://www.movnat.com/
SealFit: https://sealfit.com/
Also mentioned:
John Taylor Gatto
Fudōshin
Fudōshin is a state of equanimity or imperturbability. It is a philosophical or mental dimension to Japanese martial arts which contributes to the effectiveness of the advanced practitioner. Fudō Myōō is found in Shingon Buddhism as a guardian deity, who is portrayed as carrying a sword in his right hand and a rope in his left.
You’re invited to come to a Sovereign Circle meeting to experience it for yourself. To learn more, go to https://www.sovereignman.ca/. While you’re there, check out the Battle Ready program and check out the store for Sovereign Man t-shirts, hats, and books.
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Transcript
Starting Fresh: Discovering Strengths and Weaknesses
00:00:00
Speaker
It can be really scary because you're so used to living your life the way you have for the last 10, 15, 20 years. But it's a great opportunity to discover both who you are in terms your strengths, but also your like your weaknesses. Like, whoa, I've never really got to explore. I need to explore.
00:00:13
Speaker
And courage is one of them. It's so easy to fall back on our laurels and in our old habits. But when you're starting your life again fresh, it's an opportunity for courage and risk taking and to try new things.
The Importance of Masculinity and Self-Sufficiency
00:00:27
Speaker
You're a man living in the modern world in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were. You live life on your own terms. You're self-sufficient.
00:00:38
Speaker
You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum. When life knocks you down, you get back up because in your gut, you know that's what men do. You're a badass and a warrior. And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you you really are.
00:00:58
Speaker
Welcome to Sovereign Man Podcast, where we aim to make men masculine again. I'm your man, Nicky Ballou. I'm here with a special repeat guest, my good friend, Michael Osterlink. Welcome to show, Michael.
Second Chances: Personal Growth After Life Changes
00:01:08
Speaker
Hey, Nicky. Thanks for having me back, man.
00:01:10
Speaker
but it's It's always a pleasure to have these conversations with you. Honestly, brother, I feel exactly the same way. You're a great, ah great guest. You always make me think. You always teach me new things, which I really appreciate.
00:01:22
Speaker
So we're going to talk today about men that... ah are getting a second chance at life. And I asked you to come on the show to talk about this because you brought this up in one of the coaching calls i had with you and our client work together. So why don't you, um just for the sake of the folks, give a very quick background of yourself for anybody who's new, doesn't remember who you are, who hasn't heard of you. And then let's get into this whole conversation of men and their second chance at life.
00:01:51
Speaker
that That sounds great. So, you know, almost 30 years as a marriage and family therapist, 25 years as a coach. I can tell you another time why I switched from therapy to coaching. I spent about a decade working with Commander Mark Devine at SEAL Fit, running his Unbeatable Mind Academy and such programs underneath his auspices. I worked for another SEAL, Dan Cirillo, may he rest in peace, ah Spartan 7.
00:02:16
Speaker
And I've done a lot of ah work in the kind of the the human optimization resilience space. In combination with my work as a marriage and family therapist. So I kind of, i as you as you know, I run around in many different worlds.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, 100%, brother. So, Michael, why is it that men find themselves in a situation that they need a second chance at life sometimes. Just explain this whole philosophy yes but for us. so Yeah, and I actually just use my personal experience.
00:02:48
Speaker
I was divorced a few years ago, and you know you got you separate from the wife, and you gotta live separately from the wife. And and I actually chose, instead of like living down the street and you know waiting for the year or a year and a half to you know finish up, I hit the road.
00:03:04
Speaker
And I literally traveled around the country for about a year and a half. Also went to South America, went to Ecuador. So I got the opportunity to like just travel around and spend amazing, great time with friends.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I had, for some reason, either all my friends that he spent the time with traveling around were either coaches, therapists, or healers or one sort of another. And I found myself in some really deep, immense conversations about life and universe and everything, you like pointing to me like, here's an opportunity for you to
Societal Shifts and Identity Exploration
00:03:35
Speaker
recreate your life. You know, you no longer have a wife, a home and all the things that that means for you.
00:03:41
Speaker
What does your life look like? And I took those questions really seriously. And in my travels, you know, like what does that mean for me? And I had to reprogram my nervous system. I can tell an interesting story. I had to reprogram how i thought about things.
00:03:55
Speaker
And because I was so used to being in it in in that particular marriage and that particular lifestyle, the habits, daily habits. And I like to break out of that and to to have the freedom, really like 100% freedom to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do was really ah awesome, but also a challenge.
00:04:14
Speaker
And part of that was just reflecting my life physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Who am I in light of this new freedom that I have? And who do i want to be? And then exploring those questions, I started bringing the learnings that I had during that period of time into my work in therapy and into my work as as a coach.
00:04:32
Speaker
And started working with men who were then asked, in that same position, asking the same kind of questions.
Love and Compatibility in Modern Relationships
00:04:39
Speaker
So why do you think so many men over the last 50, 60 years are finding themselves in that position?
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah yeah I think... So I'm of two minds. I think at one level, the high rates of divorce and the breakup of the family are are a problem.
00:04:59
Speaker
And we you and I can talk offline and we can even talk yeah about government policies and cultural forces that are destructive the family. And I do look at them with a critical eye. And a lot of those things need to be reformed.
00:05:12
Speaker
But I also think in parallel with that, there's a growing recognition of the individual that within our culture. And I don't and i don't just mean ah like a surface level recognition the individual, immediate needs and gratification and libertarian attitude.
00:05:29
Speaker
But like people are beginning to, and I see this much more with women, because I work with a lot of women too, but growing number of men beginning to add some skills like, ooh, what do i want out of life? How do I want to be in my life?
00:05:41
Speaker
How do I want to express my purpose in this life? There's some deep existential as well as interpersonal questions that are now more okay to be asked.
00:05:53
Speaker
And I find more and more people asking those questions and and and in many cases leading to separation and divorce, in many cases leading to people finding a new partner who more reflects where the decisions they're now taking in life, that they're more conscious, they're more intentional, and they're finding partners who reflect that kind of intent and consciousness that they're now possessing.
00:06:15
Speaker
So a lot less unconscious forces driving them, more conscious choices driving them. You know, it strikes me, Michael, that in the past, people would get married with somebody in large part because they needed to, right? Marriage was how, ah for women, they were provided for and how the family unit got together and children got created.
00:06:43
Speaker
And this whole question of romantic love really wasn't what marriage was all about back in the day. yeah It seems like it's ah it's a whole new thing that you marry for love. You married because it was necessary, it was important, it was how you brought things forward.
00:06:59
Speaker
Love would develop in those relationships over time, ah obviously because people had children together and and they moved forward, but Nobody got married based on romantic love. In fact, the way that they would get married is they would go and and look at it in a very clear-eyed way and say, look, is this a person a good fit for me? Like a woman would be thinking, is he a good provider? Is he going to be able to work?
00:07:22
Speaker
work and take care of the family. And the man would think, is she going to be a good mother? Is she going to be somebody who's going to be stable and raise the children well? And I think from the point of view of society, that really worked.
00:07:34
Speaker
That had our society be in a place where, um you know, smart, strong, stable children came out of those family relationships and family dynamics.
00:07:46
Speaker
There wasn't a whole lot of drama. There wasn't a whole lot of fatherless boys committing crimes and fatherless girls getting pregnant and becoming prostitutes and things like that.
00:07:57
Speaker
And I think this whole notion of marrying for love I don't say it's completely nuts, but it's it's flawed.
00:08:09
Speaker
If you just marry for love, that's where you can pick somebody and they are not the right person for you. And and that feeling of love that you have might not be love. It just might be high level, high grade lust.
00:08:23
Speaker
What are your thoughts on that?
Critiquing Education and Work Culture
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I i always say yes and, yes and, yes and. So I think love is a good ah driver for relationships and sure other qualities and characteristics need to be in place.
00:08:36
Speaker
And this is kind of what i was referring to earlier, like intellectually or mentally, emotionally, spiritually. you know all I think it's really important to be able to start thinking about what do I want intellectually in terms compatibility with a partner?
00:08:48
Speaker
What do i want emotionally? How do I want to be able to show up in this relation with this person? How do i want them to show up with me spiritually? What are what are our values? you know And spirituality doesn't necessarily have to religious values.
00:08:59
Speaker
But what are our values? what What are important character traits I want to see in this other person? Love, care and compassion, risk taking, courage, wouldn't you know all with tons of different integrity, with tons of different tons of different character traits. so And I think it's important, and I and i tell this to people who are starting to date early on, is like, try not to take any major decisions early on in terms of the long-term decision making.
00:09:24
Speaker
Because as you just said, there's a lot of hormones flowing. It's very exciting. People put their best foot forward. What I usually tell people is like, go through some tough times with this person before deciding to make a long-term commitment.
00:09:37
Speaker
Because you want to see how they handle adversity. You know, are they able to deal stress? Are they able to deal with setbacks? Things along those lines. All that plus the intellectual stuff, the emotional stuff, the spiritual stuff, all really important. So i would say love, yes.
00:09:52
Speaker
All those other things, yes, too. And then, you know, some of the more, i would say, ah but less than modern understandings of the male-female relationship, you know, like,
00:10:04
Speaker
protector and provider like now these days women actually think you probably right in some cases do better economically than some men more graduates more women go to college than men so there's changing dynamics there so there's less of a need necessarily for a man to be the provider in terms of money that's a different dynamic going on mostly here this in ah in our country in our countries because you're not a human american um sure but still the provider And the protector, like there's other ways hey person can provide and protect their, in this case, a man to a woman.
00:10:37
Speaker
So I think we need, it I think those things are really important too, but maybe they need to be thought of a little bit differently in light of the changing dynamics in our culture. So all of that stuff I think is really important for people to take into consideration when they're determining a long-term partnership or marriage.
Women's Evolving Roles and Personal Choices
00:10:55
Speaker
Well, you know, for younger folks, One of the things I want to say to young women is they sold you a bill of goods by having you go work for a corporation rather than work in the home.
00:11:07
Speaker
Because the boss there, typically a man, doesn't really care about you and is going to work his ass off and take the best of your youth. And you're going to work there in your early 20s to your mid to late 30s before you go, oh, my God, my biological clock is ticking. I need some children.
00:11:23
Speaker
And you may or may not be in a position to make a smart decision as to who to have children with at that point in time. I think these young women are better off, quite frankly, not going to work, finding a good man, getting married and having their kids and maybe working later in life if that's something they really wanna do.
00:11:42
Speaker
um And I wonder if university today even makes sense for most people or colleges, as you put it, right? Because it seems that many of these colleges and universities have become training grounds for wokeism rather than preparatory places for living a great life.
00:12:02
Speaker
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, okay, quite a few things you laid out there. So, like, you know, I'm a very libertarian person, even in the cultural space. If a woman wants to work, she should be free to work, whatever she wants to do.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, and I know you believe the same thing, too. Generally speaking, though, you know, I would have the same critique of men going into the corporate space, actually slightly different, but similar concerns than maybe women going into the in the corporate space.
00:12:28
Speaker
um and Men want to go in the corporate space, cool. But the thought of like working 12, 14 hours and spending two hours in traffic on the way back and and not with your family, like I i see the Industrial Revolution a ah um as an unfortunate vehicle along with government other government policies to destroy the family, really.
00:12:51
Speaker
Like, you know if you look at our education system, not even in college, you look at the education system, you look at John Teller-Gatto, he's written quite a few books on this, he's deceased now. But like the education created for a few different reasons.
00:13:04
Speaker
One of them was to create workers in the factories and and people to be obedient to the militaries from Prussia. They lost the war against them. or napoleon and they created this whole system which we incorporated here in the states and it's now know international now so just looking at that like we that helped destroy the family so if you want to about destruction of the family that is one key thing that led to the destruction of the family and So, i you know, I do question a lot of the practices we have in the conventional sense of how we live our lives as both destructive to the family, destructive to the individual.
00:13:37
Speaker
And we can get into diet, nutrition and all this stuff. Like, you know, a lot of our systems we have in place and institutions are pretty, in my perspective, pretty anti-human, anti-health,
Political Divisions and Consistent Beliefs
00:13:47
Speaker
anti-well-being. agree. I agree.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah. But in terms of college, i also agree with you, too. We live in the information age. We're transitioning out of the industrial age. There's a lot less value, not 100 percent less value, but there's a lot of value for the majority of people necessarily to get a college.
00:14:04
Speaker
I would rather see ah a market emerge where there's tons of different opportunities. trade schools. I would even reform unions. I think unions should be thinking differently how they do things. yeah you know But we can have that. That's a different conversation. But like, yeah, I think our institutions are too slow to shift.
00:14:22
Speaker
And I think they need to shift a lot more quickly to reflect the opportunities that the information age provides us in terms of like breaking out a conventional sense of what is education.
00:14:32
Speaker
And I agree with you. Like, from my watching, I mean, watching what's going on in our colleges and universities, some of them are producing really smart people, but there's there's a lot of miseducation, or maybe in their sense, proper education.
00:14:47
Speaker
but like in the communist know like sense of educating the public, not teaching them how to think critically, not teaching them how to be whole human beings that are productive yeah in and society, but more like cogs in the wheel and following the authoritarian leaders of sorts.
00:15:03
Speaker
That's the problem for me. Yeah. So, i left right. i mean, i I'm a critical of all systems of authority, which limit the individual to think freely and act freely in their life, whether it's from the left or the right.
00:15:20
Speaker
I agree with you. I think, you know, today it's less a ah left and right. Yeah. dichotomy and more a ah common sense versus insanity dichotomy.
00:15:34
Speaker
You know, so far it's, yeah. yeah i Off camera, I was telling you I watched ah Donald Trump's State of the Union speech. Well, part of these State of the Union speeches is they bring in ordinary Americans with some extraordinary stories and they they they acknowledge them, they celebrate them. So Donald Trump talked about this 13-year-old black boy who ah whose dream has always been to become a police officer and he's suffering from brain cancer.
00:16:05
Speaker
He's had 13 surgeries he's had um thirteen surgeries And when they first found out back in 2018, they told him he has five months to live. So he's already like doing way better than they thought he'd have.
00:16:17
Speaker
And so Trump gave him an honorary um Secret Service badge, right? The head of the Secret Service came and then he hugged the head of the Secret Service. His dad was there. It was cool. Dude, the Dems sat on their hands.
00:16:30
Speaker
They couldn't applaud this. This boy dying of brain cancer because Donald Trump bought him out there. They couldn't applaud this. That's insane. That's insane. That's not left. That's not right. That's insane. If your humanity is so far gone that you can't see a human being being acknowledged and recognized because your political opponent is doing it, there's something deeply flawed and deeply wrong with you.
00:16:54
Speaker
you're not Your humanity is gone. You're not a human being anymore. I agree, and that's that's a really great extreme example. But i you know yeah as you know, I spent 20 years in public policy, a lot of it in national security space.
00:17:05
Speaker
And its it was amazing. i would see when Obama was in office, the Republicans would change their position because Obama's doing something, and vice versa. Trump's like something, so the Democrats have to change their position on it.
00:17:18
Speaker
That part, I understand it because I got to watch it for 20 years. What is nonsense? like There's very few people i respect and a few people that I respect in terms of policy and politics are the ones who are consistent. It doesn't matter who's in office.
00:17:33
Speaker
if you If it's true, you should fight for it. It doesn't matter who's in office or you're opposing. That drives me fucking mad at me. but Listen, um I yeah applauded when Obama, under his watch, brought down Osama bin Laden, man. i applauded. I thought that was great. I'm like, this is fucking awesome.
00:17:52
Speaker
Way to go. right I'm like, okay, you're taking more credit than you should. You should let the Navy SEALs take credit, not go under my direction. We did it should just say, the SEALs got Osama bin Laden. Then everybody would give you credit because you didn't seem like a glory hound. But – Well, actually, I'd love to speak to that, too, because he actually should have said nothing about who did the operation.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah. That was a problem. He should not have named SEAL Team 6. Was it him or Biden? One of the two. Biden was vice president. name that He did. He did. He totally named it. like he Yeah, I heard other people say that, too.
00:18:27
Speaker
Well, he could have said, hey, the United States military. Yeah, that's what he should have said. Just... just ah eliminated Osama bin Laden.
00:18:37
Speaker
He's the mastermind behind the 9-11 threats, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is a great day for America and for the families of the victims of the terrorist attacks ah that were masterminded by Osama bin Laden.
00:18:53
Speaker
I want you to know that the We did this to give you closure. Boom. And that would have been amazing. That would have been amazing. like But he didn't do that. He didn't do that.
00:19:04
Speaker
Yeah.
Men's Midlife Restart: Opportunity for Growth
00:19:05
Speaker
No, I agree. Yeah. But back to the men's stuff, just in terms of like you you know a man mid-age, late 30s, early 40s, early fifty s somewhere in there, even in the I work with the older guys in the early 60s.
00:19:18
Speaker
or her literally starting her life fresh. And it's yeah it can be really scary because you're so used to living your life the way you have for last 10, 15, 20 years, however you're long you're married.
00:19:28
Speaker
yeah But it's also great opportunity. it's a great opportunity to discover who you really are and both who you are in terms your strengths, but also your like your weaknesses. Like, oh, these are areas like, whoa, I've never really got to explore. I need to explore. And courage is one of them.
00:19:46
Speaker
You know, it's so easy to fall back on our laurels and in our old habits. But when you're when you're when you're starting your life again fresh, like it's an opportunity for courage and risk taking and to try new things.
00:20:00
Speaker
And that's where when I work with these guys, ah mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically, and I and i think I've spoken to you about one of the clients I'm working with recently he was in this position. And in my program, I work with them physiologically, psychologically, socially, and environmentally. The physiological stuff is diet, nutrition, fitness, movement, stress management, circadian biology.
00:20:19
Speaker
He got onto a great eating cycle, eating much healthier. He's exercising. He lost 30 pounds. He's dating again. ah I know his boss. He's showing up differently at work. He's showing up differently with his kids.
00:20:33
Speaker
He's a happier guy. He's making better decisions his life. it just it's it's it's It's hard. it's like It makes me feel really good to watch this guy like come out of his shell and just live the life he's always meant to live.
00:20:46
Speaker
And that's possible for any of us. with you know you And you don't necessarily need psychological help or coaching help, yeah friends and family, you know some good accountability buddies. But like it's really helpful to have a plan of action.
00:20:59
Speaker
Like, hey, be ah this is what I work on mentally. This is what work on emotionally, interpersonally, spiritually, physically. Put together a great plan, operationalize that plan, get support and accountability for that plan, and live the best life possible for yourself.
Importance of Male-Only Support Spaces
00:21:19
Speaker
For a man to live the best life possible for himself, I think one of the things he has to have, and you and I both agree on this, is he needs to be what ah I call oh part of a brotherhood.
00:21:31
Speaker
He needs to be someone who participates in masculine only spaces. Yes. Masculine only spaces.
00:21:43
Speaker
So had Robert Glover on both my podcasts. Yeah, that's right. And he said, hey, men today are craving masculine only spaces and most of them don't even know it.
00:21:57
Speaker
yeah And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. And could you go a little bit deeper into why you are such a strong proponent of this? Yeah, no, it's Dr. Glover is 100% right. And I'll give you two examples. So you know like I co-founded Team Foodish, and we do get together hard physical challenges.
00:22:15
Speaker
And it was amazing because I'm here in Austin, Texas. We have this great lake called Lady Brute Lake. And every Saturday, my boys would get together, and we'd do the lake. We'd do at least 10-mile rock with wadeed wade vests and stuff like that.
00:22:27
Speaker
And I'm 50. was 53 at the time. 54 now. but all the guys between and my son. so they call me Yeah, they're all young pups. Great shape. but And to a guy, they would all say, we have no place to come and both do bullshit and also have serious conversations. you know Because guys get together and they can have fun and talk about crap, which is awesome too. But then they're they're like, this is ah this is a place we can come together.
00:22:55
Speaker
and we were talking And they were talking about their girlfriends or their wives or their kids because they didn't have space for that. And couple of them even said, like, the only place we'd have to do anything like this was at the bar getting drunk.
00:23:06
Speaker
But that doesn't count you're getting drunk and doing stupid shit. It's not a deep, meaningful conversation. Not at all. yeah Yeah, not at all. And you' probably just you're probably there to pick up chicks. So like, OK, that's not helpful.
00:23:18
Speaker
We're fighting with other guys. So that was a great kind of test case to see and to hear what was so important and valuable to these guys and the lack in their lives.
00:23:29
Speaker
And then as you know, JC Glick and I, former Army Ranger, we've launched a resilience optimized men's group for for what for that purpose. like Men need a place to come to to talk about their issues, get support, be held accountable.
00:23:44
Speaker
And as you know, from you know because you you've talked to JC and you've talked to me, you know we take a very comprehensive approach. And it goes back to physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and interpersonal. you know Men need to be physically capable.
00:23:58
Speaker
Doesn't mean they need to be a David Goggins run 100 miles before breakfast, but men need to be physically healthy and strong. That's, a you know, in my perspective, and I believe yours too, because i see what you do, you look like it, that's important.
00:24:12
Speaker
But they also mentally resilient, emotionally resilient, spiritually resilient, and they need to show up differently in many cases and how they show for their wives and their families.
00:24:23
Speaker
So having a place for men to go doesn't have to be our group. It doesn't have to even be our, you know, a fush and rucking group.
Physical and Mental Resilience
00:24:29
Speaker
Somewhere for men to go to have these experiences and support one another is so important because we don't have that in our culture at all. We don't.
00:24:39
Speaker
We don't. I mean, you're talking about being physically capable. I think being physically capable is very important. There's a lot of reasons why it's important. Maybe let's delve into some more detail around that. Yeah, I mean, i I'm friends with Erwan LaCour, who founded MoveNet, MoveNet, M-O-V-E-N-A-T dot com.
00:24:54
Speaker
And it's movement system based on how human beings evolved to move over time. Fascinating system. and And I love talking to him about this because he's like... you know People go to the gym, and I know you go to the gym, and I go to gym and and we do like we bench press and press and even weights on both sides, and you do certain reps.
00:25:12
Speaker
He's like, you know that's great, but can you carry a kid out of your house if the house is on fire? The kid's shaking around. He weighs 120 pounds or 90 pounds, whatever it is.
00:25:23
Speaker
He's not evenly situated on one side or the other. He's like moving. Yeah. You know, can you do that? Could you carry your your your wife out of a burning building? You know, or if there's a car accident, could you break open the door and help someone get out of the car, break the glass and help someone get out of the car?
00:25:40
Speaker
wide variety of situations one might not not necessarily always find themselves in, but might find themselves in. And it's less about gym strength, like I can do 300-pound bench press. That's awesome.
00:25:51
Speaker
But can you actually carry someone who needs your help a certain distance out of a fire or a threat or whatever it happens to be? And then also physically capable, too, is dealing physical threats.
00:26:02
Speaker
Now, the smart thing is not to find yourself in those kind situations. OK, cool. The second smart thing is act remove yourself from those situations because you just never know. But sometimes you might find yourself in an oral altercation.
00:26:15
Speaker
and are And are you able to protect yourself? Are you able to protect your wife? Are you able to protect your kids? And not that you have to be like Bruce Lee and full fledged martial artist, but it can be helpful and have some basic skills.
00:26:28
Speaker
So you can stop a threat and remove yourself from that situation as quickly as possible. I think that's great. I think that's really true. I may need to understand that. So talk about needing mental strength and what mental strength and resilience means.
00:26:42
Speaker
Yeah, so so I would say but couple of words that I love to use when i'm when I'm teaching this stuff is mental resilience is being able to be frontside focused. We live in a very ADD society. like you know Everyone's distracted. We have 30 seconds we can focus on on anything, and then we're on to the next thing.
00:26:58
Speaker
you know Mental resilience is being able to be frontside focused on whatever the goal is that you're working on that very moment and not being distracted by the stuff around you. That's so important.
00:27:09
Speaker
Not only that, another word I like to use is offensive mindset. like you And you don't necessarily do this literally, but you run towards the gunfire. And I'm not recommending anyone run towards the gunfire unless you're trying now to do that. But it's a metaphor.
00:27:22
Speaker
Michael would appreciate the metaphor. So ah you run towards a gunfire. It's like you want to have an offensive mindset. You see the challenge and you take on the challenge. You might be afraid. Hey, fear is normal.
00:27:33
Speaker
But that's not going to stop you. You feel the fear and you're going to charge towards it anyway. Whatever the obstacle is.
Emotional Awareness and Relationship Communication
00:27:40
Speaker
And what I find, it could be in a workspace, like the self-talk interpersonal conflict you might have with someone in the workspace.
00:27:48
Speaker
But also in your in in your relationships with your wife, for instance, or your girlfriend or your partner, whatever whatever the degree of the relationship is, it's like I've seen, because i I work with couples, that men, including myself, I'll take full responsibility for having done this in my previous marriage, put my head in the sand. I don't want to deal with the conflict.
00:28:10
Speaker
It's not rewarding. i'm not going to deal with this issue. I'm going to keep blowing it off, keep blowing it off, keep blowing it off. And then nothing gets resolved. As opposed to taking a stance for the relationship, being offensive. And I don't mean offensive like you're going to offend your wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:26
Speaker
Arrested it. But like you're going to stand, you're going to take a stance for this relationship and you're going to need to do whatever you need to do because you're the protector of this relationship. to ensure that whatever the issue is, is resolved for both of your sake and for the relationship's sake or or the family's sake.
00:28:43
Speaker
So like, you know, focus and then offensive mindset in all areas of your life is one way I think about mental toughness or mental resilience. That's really great.
00:28:54
Speaker
um I can say you emotionally, too, if you want. Yeah, I want to go through through emotional resilience and being interpersonally skilled and being financially self-sufficient. So let's do that.
00:29:05
Speaker
Let's go deep into being emotionally resilient. Yeah, so there seems to be one or two options in our world today. And I think both of them are very limited and wrong.
00:29:16
Speaker
One is either you repress all your emotions, like, you i can't feel my emotions. Cool. Or you're like just gushing all your emotions and you're and you're emotionally driven. like I don't think but either one of those are healthy.
00:29:27
Speaker
When I work with my clients, either individually or with my groups or as couples, with the men specifically, i teach them how to feel fully whatever emotions are happening in their system.
00:29:40
Speaker
Doesn't mean they have to act on them. They're not children. They're not three years old. They have to act on them. No. But feel your shit. Because if you don't, it's going to come out sideways as passive aggressive behavior. or it's going to show up as a chronic illness somewhere down the road.
00:29:54
Speaker
So you want to allow the feelings to come up. I am sad and angry. I'm feeling guilty of shame, whatever the things are allowed to process through your system. That's really important. But that's not that's like stage one.
00:30:06
Speaker
Or step one. Step two is, okay, I'm allowing it. Now what do I do with that? It's valuable information. it tells you something about yourself and yourself in relation to another human being.
00:30:18
Speaker
Maybe it gives you, like there's anger. Maybe it's about boundaries that you're not setting clearly. Or boundaries that are too tight for you. You're too rigid in a certain sense. Like I need to loosen up. It would depends, whatever it is.
00:30:30
Speaker
or Or sadness. Wow, there's a loss that I've not really felt and dealt with. I really need to deal with that. So like it gives you information and then you can use so you can use that information towards something useful for yourself.
00:30:43
Speaker
And then the third piece of that, or the third step is like, how do I healthily express this? You sometimes it can be helpful to express anger. As long as it's not a road rage, it leads to violence. We don't want that.
00:30:55
Speaker
It can be helpful to express grief and sadness or guilt, whatever it is. Because when you express it in healthy ways, let's just say it to your partner, to your wife, and you're being honest with her or how you really feel, then she can relate with you in the reality of it of of the situation.
00:31:12
Speaker
If you withhold things and keep things in, she doesn't know who you are. She can't relate with you because she's not knowing who you are. Just you wearing this mask. But if you can feel, manage, and express in healthy ways, then she can deal with you. And what I find in relationships it increases the intimacy. Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
Like your wife actually wants to know what's going on with you. Doesn't mean you become a crybaby and sit in the corner and mope all day long. I mean, since you've been like being clinically depressed, but like, you but your wife would want to know what's going on for you so she can offer or that you might need that, know, she might want
Living with Purpose and Spiritual Resilience
00:31:49
Speaker
to offer. You might want to get from her.
00:31:51
Speaker
And that gives her the opportunity to step forth and be a loving, caring partner, too. And if you have anger and you deal with and you share with your wife, I'm angry about this particular thing you know that maybe you said or did, then you you guys can deal with the reality of that situation. And maybe there's at least a really new conversation that needs to take place about needs not being met.
00:32:12
Speaker
And what I find with a lot of couples is like this mind reading thing. Oh, he should know what I'm thinking or she should know what I'm thinking. That's bullshit. Now, some people, yeah i believe it's psychic powers, so maybe some people have those things.
00:32:25
Speaker
For the most part, no, you don't. And you should be honest enough with your partner, emotionally and mentally, to share the reality of your own experience with them.
00:32:36
Speaker
Because they can't they're not mind readers. And once they know the reality of your situation, then they can act accordingly. If you think they should be my readers, you're gonna be resenting you're gonna resent them.
00:32:48
Speaker
Because they're not doing what they I think they should be doing. Well, they don't fucking know what you want, what you need, or what you desire. That's, ah for me, part of the emotional question. It's like allowing, managing, healthily expressing. And part of that is also, and just named it, is kind of being aware of your own needs, wants, and desires and being able to articulate them in healthy ways.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's fantastic, man. So talk about what it means to be interpersonally skilled. Why is that a necessary skill for men? Yeah, so I find this a broad generalization, but most men,
00:33:26
Speaker
when they're with her with her wives and their wife is being messy, and I've been given permission by my female friends to say messy, you know in the feminine energy, emotions all over the place, that makes a lot of men really uncomfortable.
00:33:38
Speaker
And they want to immediately go in and fix their partner, solve their problem. Cool, that's a nice impulse. But i the question ask the man is like, are you doing this because you feel uncomfortable? Or are you doing this because that's what she wants from you?
00:33:51
Speaker
And if they're being honest, a lot of them is like both. Like, oh, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't know how to sit with her emotionality. And I also, i love her and i want to solve her problem.
00:34:02
Speaker
So what I work with couples and work especially with men within the couple dome is like, you need to be able to understand what your wife needs at that moment, which could change five minutes from now, five hours from now, and five days from now.
00:34:15
Speaker
So it requires you to be constantly engaging her in conversations. because maybe she just wants to bitch and share and let it all out.
00:34:25
Speaker
And she just wants you to hold the space. Maybe she wants to share with you and have you ask questions and kind of a deeper dive with her. Maybe she wants you to solve her problems or help her solve her problems. Cool.
00:34:37
Speaker
Whatever, whatever she needs. so I teach the men how to be there, how her how their wife actually wants them to be there. Now, how they imagine the wife would want them to be there to make themselves also more comfortable.
00:34:49
Speaker
That's my reading. And what's really cool about this is it requires the husband both to learn how to sit in his own stuff and manage himself because he might get triggered, activated when she's messy.
00:35:01
Speaker
So he has to learn how to like regulate himself. Cool. That that doesn't mean you deny how you feel, but you're the man. So regulate yourself. like You don't have to get defended. You can just be relaxed and open and loving and caring and strong.
00:35:13
Speaker
um But it also requires him to ask her questions, be curious about her. Which is really cool because I find in most relationships after a certain period of time that the questions stop, the curiosity ends and you just expect the person to be, ah that's just who they are, that's how they are, that's how they wanna show up.
00:35:31
Speaker
Like you turn them into rock. But with the curiosity, you recognize that no, they're a changing, evolving, growing, adapting human being. and it And it can increase the intimacy once you approach your partner with just curiosity.
00:35:45
Speaker
What's going on with you? What do you feel? What are you thoughts? what What do you need? What can I do for you? And then your partner of fucking loves that shit because you're actually showing up for her she would like you to show up for Excellent.
00:35:58
Speaker
Excellent. You know, Michael, men need other men because they force them to think about these things.
00:36:08
Speaker
They force them to think about where they stand vis-a-vis the hierarchy of of men in terms of their physical capabilities, their mental strength, their emotional resilience, their interpersonal skills, their financial self-sufficiency, it forces them to really think about it and level up their game.
00:36:30
Speaker
And as men, nothing makes us feel more alive than when we're engaged with a purpose, a mighty purpose that demands the best of us.
00:36:43
Speaker
and And to me, the work that you do, the work that I do, seeks to demand the best of men. And I would say that's a great segue to the spiritual resilience.
00:36:55
Speaker
You know, why? Why are you here? What is your purpose? And 100% agree with you. In my experience with myself and all the clients I've worked with and and studied, men need purpose.
00:37:07
Speaker
And what's fascinating about that, too, and I'm speaking now the women in the men's in the men's lives, it can be really helpful for the women to recognize that their man has a purpose, is living out his purpose, and to be grateful for that and to show appreciation for that. But I see so many times the men is the man is struggling. He's doing his thing. He's doing his things for his family.
00:37:30
Speaker
yeah He's changing the world within his world. He's doing it he's doing room doing hard work. And over time, there's less appreciation from the wife for all the hard work he's putting in. and it it And men need some ego boosting. like and And I find like when women start doing that for their for their husbands, man, it like it doesn't require a lot. Literally, just a few kind of words of appreciation for the hard work that the husband's doing can go a long way.
00:37:58
Speaker
And and they The women need to recognize that the man, in most cases it seems, needs a purpose, is living his purpose. And for men, if they don't have one, I encourage them to find their why, their purpose.
00:38:11
Speaker
Because once you know your why, and almost anything
Community Initiatives for Personal Growth
00:38:14
Speaker
is possible. 100%, man. 100%. 100%. Brilliant. Brilliant stuff. So, Michael, if men are interested in finding more about your work, um talk a bit about Team Foodishin and talk about the resilience work you do with your partner for men.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, so i reverse order. So JC Glick and I, we run resilience optimized. You can Google resilience optimized. And um it's ah we we're launching cohort number two here next month.
00:38:43
Speaker
This is six-month cohort. We meet every week for an hour and 15 minutes. it's It's two things. It's a curriculum. So we have a very particular curriculum. Every month is a theme. Every week is a sub-theme.
00:38:55
Speaker
But it's also a group process. So men bring their stuff into the group and they talk about it. They get support. They get accountability. um you know As you know, I spend a lot of time with the SEALs. So I talk about swim buddies. He's a ranger. He talks about ranger buddies. So we compromise. We talk about battle buddies.
00:39:10
Speaker
We also get a battle buddy. you know So like you are in contact with your your battle buddy during the week. Because stuff happens and you might need support. You might need some accountability. You might be a kick in the nuts.
00:39:21
Speaker
Like, hey, get off your get. This is your bullshit. Like, stop bullshitting yourself. You made this agreement. You need to move forward to what you agreed to. Or sometimes it's, you know, more of the grandmother's end. Like I talk about grandmother, grandfather's end.
00:39:35
Speaker
Grandfather's end is you get hit with a stick to wake you up. Sometimes you need that. Trust the men. sometimes's mothers zen know Sometimes you just need someone to say, hey put their arms on your shoulder and say, hey, man, everything's going to be OK.
00:39:47
Speaker
Because sometimes in life, things are really fucking hard. And it's great loose do it's great to be really strong. But sometimes, man, just need someone to, like I said, put your hand on your shoulder and say, everything's going cool.
00:39:59
Speaker
Everything's going to OK. You don't always need to be hit by a two-by-four to be woken up. um So that's resilience optimized with JC. um I'm biased. It's a great group.
00:40:11
Speaker
I love JC. I love working with JC. it's It's so much fun. And then the Team Foodishin is a group we put together. um We put together originally to do a 50 mile go ruck in Washington, D.C.
00:40:24
Speaker
Out of that, we realized that people like to do hard shit. like hard things. So we've organized, professionalized. We actually have SealFit is a sponsor of ours. Kinetic is a sponsor of ours. It's ah it's a keto drink, ketone drink.
00:40:39
Speaker
you know So like we're professionalizing it. And What we recognize is, and this is for men and women, but we seem to mostly attract men, is that men and women like to do, some women like to do really hard things.
00:40:52
Speaker
They need a tribe. they They want to be mentally tough, emotionally resilient. They want to try to support them. And we organize this in order to give people the opportunity to come together to do really hard stuff together.
00:41:05
Speaker
And not like I said, not just to prove how physically capable we are, that's important or most resilient or mentally tough, but also to have a tribe, you know, try opportunity and network and have new friends and do really cool stuff together outside of just the hard physical challenges.
00:41:20
Speaker
That's team foodishing. Yeah, it's beautiful, man. What you're doing is amazing. The fact that you want to serve men is inspiring to me. And I think you're one of, uh,
00:41:34
Speaker
society's renaissance men because you are extremely knowledgeable and extremely skilled in multiple areas.
Gratitude and Embracing Identity
00:41:41
Speaker
They call people like you polymaths. You're a real polymath. And when you come and you speak to me about the topics in which you have expertise, I always learn from you because you're very widely read and you think about issues very, very deeply. And I think that's a beautiful thing. The world ought to ought to know more about you. And you know, in this podcast,
00:42:01
Speaker
When I was listening to you speak, I thought, time to get Michael to write his book for men hang and get it out there. You know, ah I think it would be ah ah unique book that would reach a lot of men and frankly help you from a business point of view as well. So thank you again, Michael, for coming on the show.
00:42:21
Speaker
And thanks for sharing your wisdom with us, brother. Appreciate you. Thanks. Yeah, you bet. And that's a wrap. Thank you for listening to the Sovereign Man podcast.
00:42:33
Speaker
If you're ready to take charge of your life and become the man you've always wanted to be, we invite you to join the movement at sovereignman.ca.