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Episode 19 - The Master Series: NAKASHIMA
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In today's episode of the Master Series, we discuss the amazing Japanese Americana furniture designer and architect, George Nakashima, widely considered to be the father of slab furniture. George believed trees had a soul, and through the act of making furniture he was giving them a second life. His most famous pieces of furniture include live edge slab tables and benches with architecturally inspired bases, with clean lines almost evoking the peace and serenity of Zen Buddhism. Following George's death in 1990, his daughter Mira boldly led Nakashima Woodworkers forward into their new chapter. Today, we have the incredible fortune of having two VERY SPECIAL guests with us, Mira Nakashima, daughter of George Nakashima, and her grandson Toshi Amagasu who not only give us an inside look into Nakashima Furniture, but also inside their thriving family legacy.
For more information on Nakashima Furniture: https://nakashimawoodworkers.com/
For a wonderful in-depth documentary on George's Life: https://nakashimadocumentary.com/ George Nakashima Video Clip courtesy of Jim Bunn, with assistance from John Nakashima.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Spiritual Connection to Trees
00:00:00
Speaker
I feel that there's a spirit in trees that's that's very deep. And I'm somewhat of a druid that way. Especially when it comes to something extraordinary, I find the spirit just bouncing up and down in in the the grain of a tree. So there is that relationship. I have essentially no interest in furniture as such.
00:00:28
Speaker
I mean, I would find it impossible to try to design a chair out of plastic or metal or plywood. I'm not in that kind of a spirit. But I do feel that in order to produce a fine piece of furniture, the spirit of a tree lives on. And I can give it a second life. It's something like the medical profession.
00:00:57
Speaker
But I think this is, in a way, even more realistic and deeper than what the medical profession can do, because I can make an object that lives and can live forever, possibly, if used properly.
Introducing the Podcast & Hosts
00:01:14
Speaker
So that's my objective, and that's my happiness, is to find this relationship with a tree.
00:01:32
Speaker
ah Welcome, everyone, to another episode of your favorite podcast. Woodworking is bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, scientist by day, woodworker by night. And I'm joined by your two amazing, fabulous co-hosts, Eric Curtis, full-time furniture maker and content creator, and Mary Tsai. Mary Tsai. Thanks. Adobe UX designer by day, contemporary furniture maker by night.
Influential Figures in Furniture Design
00:02:01
Speaker
So today we have an exceptionally unique and important episode of what we call the master series because Throughout history, there's only a few individuals who have single-handedly influenced the landscape of furniture design. So I'm referring to names such as Chippendale, Stickley, Maloof, Nakashima. And part of me doesn't even believe what I'm going to say now. But today on the podcast, we have Mira Nakashima and her grandson, Toshi Amagasu. And for those of you who might not know,
00:02:40
Speaker
Mira is not a distant relative of the famous George Nakashima. She is in fact his daughter. And ah also the president and creative director of George Nakashima, Woodworks. So Mira and Toshi, ah we cannot thank you enough for giving us and the listeners the gift of your time and your thoughts on today's episode. What's up?
Creative Titles and Nakashima's Philosophy
00:03:03
Speaker
That was very, I don't know, professional.
00:03:08
Speaker
Let me try. you guys do i I like the title of Creative Director, Mira. That feels good. That feels like a ah strong title. Well, I stole it from my friend who's a musical director. She has ah a chamber music group. She calls herself the creative director. She programs it and she's the cellist who's this the the foundation of the the group, so I thought, well, that's that's kind of appropriate. It's rather better than just director or CEO. ceo or sure
00:03:47
Speaker
oh press I'm sorry, that now too. whatever All right, so let's begin by bringing any listener who may not already be familiar with George Nakashima into the fold ah by defining the Nakashima ethos and furniture. And everyone he knows who listens to this show how much Mary loves her definitions. Mary, this is I love them. as as As an engineer, Mary loves to have things properly defined. So I thought because Nakashima furniture legacy I think is so big and difficult to define in a single sentence, I thought we could actually have some fun with this and sort of make a game out of it. And what I'm going to do
00:04:32
Speaker
is give each of us one sentence to give our definition of what Nakashima is to us, including ah Toshi and Mira. Now, it goes without saying that I think all of our definitions are going to be incomplete, right? Because that's the beauty of the game. You know you can't really summarize into one sentence. But taken as an ensemble, I think, all of our definitions together will give the listener some idea of what it really means. And then, of course, at the end,
00:04:59
Speaker
Mira will just tell us what the real answer is. And Mira, you're not down to the one sentence roll. Toshi, you are. Sorry about that kid. All right. So I'll go first. All ah All right. So one sentence.
00:05:19
Speaker
Through a deep devotion to nature and spirituality, George Nakashima inspired the world to see how beautiful slabs of wood could be when they couldn't see it for themselves and is in my mind therefore the father of modern slab furniture.
00:05:40
Speaker
Wow. That was, I believe, what Toshi was talking about in the free call. That's got to be a technology. Yeah, we got to go back to grammar school. There were some clauses to the sub clauses. My English teacher would destroy you.
00:05:55
Speaker
It was good. It was beautiful. It was poetic, but it was great it was technically two sentences. Okay, Eric, hot shot. Your turn. All right, i took I took a different route. I tried to keep it as simple as possible. um And I thought more about the legacy of like Nakashima furniture as I know it and how I learned about it when I was in school. And what I came up with is a handcrafted sentiment on a production scale.
00:06:25
Speaker
Which is really interesting to me because it's really hard to hit that sweet spot. I don't think many people do it. And I don't know, in fairness, that the scale of production you guys are actually putting out. Like, I don't know how many pieces a year you're making, but i I think it's fair to call it a production shop. And yet each piece is an individual handcrafted piece. So that's where I landed. weren't you just saying the run on sentence? Yeah, my sentence I listen, I just define my definition. Okay. Yeah, but wait, you got you got to like explain everything about your sentence. Like I just did this. That's the beauty of keeping it brief. Oh, whatever. Double standards. Okay, Mary.
00:07:06
Speaker
Okay, I also kept it brief, and in a similar vein of Eric, i my definition is more about how I've interacted with Nakashima's work. So for me, I think Nakashima's furniture is about creating pieces that enhance life's natural rhythms. Wow, I like that. Nice. I could ah know it was beauty go on, but that's it. Dip out all your head. That was great. All right, Toshi, you ready?
00:07:36
Speaker
Well, for me, I've been surrounded by all this stuff my entire life before I even knew it was even remotely significant. um So to me, the definition of our work is ah just make good stuff.
00:07:49
Speaker
ah Because I feel like it's accurate. It's kind of like Eric's t-shirt, go make a thing, except it has to be a good thing. Yeah, akin to the motto I have, just make a thing. It doesn't matter what the thing is, just make something. But just make a good thing. That's like taking it up a notch. We've got customers to deal with. So it has to be a good thing. Yes. That's fair. All right. And Mira, you're not bound by the single sentence unless you'd like to. But if you could give us your definition.
George Nakashima's Life and Influences
00:08:24
Speaker
Uh, well, I thought I was only going to have to, uh, produce one sentence. Uh, let's start with that. My sentence was, uh, Nakashima woodworking is a way of life. Oh, you're right. You got that, right? That's a way. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Absolutely. Okay. Now Mira, that's a ah very.
00:08:51
Speaker
profound single sentence. Now, can you elaborate like more broadly on on your definition? Well, I'd have to go back to to dad who came up with this idea in the beginning. um He, like Mary ah and me, studied architecture and he practiced architecture for seven years abroad. He was in India and Japan and he came back to the USA and saw the way they were doing architecture in the USA and decided he didn't want to be an architect anymore.
00:09:23
Speaker
So he started making furniture and he did work with Antonin Noemi-Raymond and theirs was a full-service architectural firm. They did the interiors as well as the exteriors and so it wasn't a foreign language for him but he just picked it up and ran with it and he decided he wanted a product that he could ah control from beginning to end, ah from the material itself through dealing with the client directly um and making it and delivering it and just, ah you know, so he he would be happy at the end of the day. He didn't have to compromise. So that's basically what we're still doing.
00:10:05
Speaker
That's why I say it's the way of life. No, I love that. So you also mentioned you know the various ah phases of his life abroad. And it seemed like from watching or from what I've learned about your father's life, and there was this period of him searching for himself, searching for what's important to him, searching for where his passion was.
00:10:29
Speaker
And could you take the listeners through the major locations and what he found about himself and his philosophy in each location?
00:10:41
Speaker
Well, that's a tough question because I wasn't there and he didn't talk about it much. um I wrote a book called Nature, Form, and Spirit in 2003. And three and i part of the reason I wrote that was I was trying to figure out why dad did what he did and why I was doing what I was doing. And so I did explore some of the the roots.
00:11:06
Speaker
he And one of the significant um stories in his life, I guess he was maybe 15 to 18, he was a boy scout, became an Eagle Scout, loved to hike and camp in the Pacific Northwest and and that point fell in love with trees. So when he went to college, ah he's majored in forestry for two years.
00:11:28
Speaker
Then some for some reason, and no he never told me why, he switched from forestry to architecture and he'd been really good at drawing things I guess during his earlier years because he was really good ah at drawing when he was in university and he won a scholarship to France at the École des Beaux-Arts. And he also won a scholarship to Harvard Graduate School of Design. And I think the École was a continuation of the Beaux-Arts tradition ah for him. He did a lot of sketching and etching and ah painting and and drawing and exploring ah you know the the tradition that was offered to him. And then he went to Harvard and
00:12:19
Speaker
decided that he'd rather, if he were in architecture, he he would be much happier learning how to build and construct and engineer things. So he switched to MIT from Harvard after two weeks. um and And he graduated in 1930 at the height of the Depression, and let's see how old would he been he would have been 25 then.
00:12:43
Speaker
and he worked as a mural painter for a while and then he ran out of work so he sold his car and bought a steamship ticket around the world, went back to Paris and bummed around there and lived the life of a starving artist for several years until he decided it was the end of the Western world and went on to Japan, the land of his ancestors. And by that time, his father said, I think it's time he got a real job. So he did get a real job with Antonin and Noemi Raymond. And as I said, they did the full service architecture, um not just the buildings themselves, but the interior. So he had that experience. And they sent him to supervise the first reinforced concrete
00:13:27
Speaker
ah building in India in 1936 and that was an adventure in itself. and um But he got there and he was at the Sri Aurobindo Ashram and he said he'd found what he was looking for. you know He'd been sort of looking for himself all those years and he found what he was looking for.
00:13:46
Speaker
Finally and decided to stay in the ashram for the rest of his life um Unfortunately the war broke out and then he had second thoughts and thought well maybe I better get to back to my family in the USA so he went back by way of Japan and happened to run into my mother who was brought up in Seattle as well and They became engaged who were married Los Angeles went up to Seattle and dad started his furniture business in the basement of the Maranell Missionaries, and because he didn't have enough money to buy machinery, and in exchange for teaching the young man of the community how to do woodworking. um The priest in charge of the Maranell Missionary, was his name was Father Tibbissar, and he was um ministering to the Japanese-American community.
00:14:38
Speaker
and ah followed us all when we were incarcerated in the Idaho desert in 1948. right after I was born, 42. So they ah I don't know you know what his thought processes were, but he said he found himself at the ashram. And then I think he found himself again when they were incarcerated. i mean it was They were on a desert. and My mother was not at all happy.
00:15:13
Speaker
um But dad was, you know, he's a good camper and he found a Japanese carpenter to work with and worked alongside him. And was he was just grateful that he had that experience, not only of learning how to use Japanese tools and, you know, the fine points of Japanese joinery, but learning to experiment with found materials. They didn't have any good materials on the desert, so he would collect bitter brush from the the desert and they would use that as little decorative
00:15:47
Speaker
ah Accents to the furniture they made and so he learned how to improvise which was a good thing and Now Mira philosophically when when he was at these different locations, that was a lovely ah timeline, by the way Thank you when he was at these different locations like let's say Japan, you know I I recall reading that the Zen aesthetic sort of creeped into his mind and the whole spirituality of Shinto Is that is that correct?
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was ah probably crept into his mind more by osmosis than any particular teacher. I don't know that he actually studied Buddhism or Shintoism while he was in Japan, but it was all part of his Japanese heritage and I think at one point he did say Probably he probably wouldn't do what he was doing ah Except for his Japanese heritage. He had inherited and that respect for nature and for the forms of nature and Maybe even the spirits of nature. I mean he wrote this book called a soul of a tree and everybody thought he was a little nuts but Including me
00:16:57
Speaker
But but you really, like I feel as though you can see those influences of of believing in spirituality of nature and of the clean the cleanliness of like the Zen aesthetic in the work. And so, as you said, it must have crept in by osmosis. And when he went to India for that poured concrete job, which was, you know I guess he had never done such a large job before and and had never attempted anything of that scale, is that right?
00:17:25
Speaker
No, he he had built several buildings um in, oops, this thing won't stay in my ear, sorry.
00:17:34
Speaker
um He had built or worked on ah several concrete buildings and other buildings when he was with the Raymond office when he was in Tokyo, but okay um so he learned the technology and i the you know the the building ah techniques that were necessary for reinforced concrete, but in India, there They didn't have any of the materials. They didn't have any of the people who knew how to do that. He had to teach them all, and he had to import all the materials from abroad. so it was um And plus, i you know Mary, I don't know what your experience was with architecture, but a lot of architects are very egotistic, and they want to do their own thing, and don't want to listen to anybody else. and
00:18:20
Speaker
um Dad had a tough time with his ego when he was in in India. and um And so the Aurobindo philosophy was to get rid of your ego and let the the spirit of you know whatever, maybe the materials and maybe from you know a higher power, ah run through your hands and your mind when you're working and that's the only way that real work gets done. And I think that was a really, um
00:18:57
Speaker
what do you call it? It was a ah catalytic experience to ah that changed the way he did things. Is that what you mean when you say he found himself for the first time in India? Is that what you were referring to? um Maybe, yeah. i don't know he He himself said he he found himself when he went to India. As I said, he never told me why. I'm just surmising that that's what made a big difference in his life and the way he's thinking about things. Yeah, I imagine
Bold Decisions and Partnerships
00:19:28
Speaker
finding a creative pathway that allows you to
00:19:33
Speaker
you know, be open to what's happening as you're doing. I mean, that's a big part of my philosophy is just like, when you're doing the thing, you're allowing ideas to flow to and from ah with the piece and you're inputting, but you're getting feedback. And that that brings me back and and Paul, I don't mean to dismantle your timeline, you can tell me to stop it if you want. But I'm curious, a thing you said before about um kind of taking in some of these spiritual ideas via osmosis. That's an interesting thing to me, because I think you always take in these design ideas or these aesthetic ideas from, or at least in my experience, from the furniture makers you're around. And I wonder if that's, it's that same kind of thing. Like he was around these objects and they happen to be based on these philosophies, whether it's a Shinto philosophy in ah in a temple or a Buddhist a philosophy. But ultimately those philosophies are manifested in objects and then that
00:20:25
Speaker
Was that influencing his aesthetic later on as those things were developing?
00:20:32
Speaker
Oh, ah for sure. Yes, I think um there are the materials at hand. There are the the people who put things together and then the engineers who might make it work. And so it it has to be this. this um consortium of of people to make things happen. And I think he learned that a little bit the hard way when he was working on Golkond in India, um the mother of the ashram had to ah guide him pretty firmly and tell him that he was being, you know, he was, he was being too egotistic or something. And he needed to get along with this other fellow he was working with. And, you know,
00:21:17
Speaker
Well, a young man in his 20s, it's hard. Sometimes we need a firm love. You hear that, Toshi? you know I've never even, I could never stand somebody with an ego. I'm the most humble person on the planet.
00:21:37
Speaker
that' a favorite day super person of the but Well, you know, from these stories, Mira, what stuck out to me with some of his moves, especially the move to India, and then back when ah After the internment camps, moving to New Hope, Pennsylvania and just starting a life, kind of building a wall a wall of the first building, like one stone at a time. I heard he was you know finding stones on the side of the road and putting them in the back of the car to build. I mean, the the word that comes just kept coming to me is how bold, like fearless in a way.
00:22:18
Speaker
I was just struck by the boldness of these moves. Because I feel like today, we're so you know we're so scared to make a move, we're a little concerned, you know, you don't want to take risk. And boy, that was big, big risk, it seemed like.
00:22:33
Speaker
Well, making furniture was a risk, too, because he hadn't really studied. Well, maybe back then they didn't have something called industrial design. So it was probably most of the design ah education was through um architecture. But one i mean he ah we were put in the camps and he made the best ah of that situation. but um What happened was was his professor from MIT contacted the Raymonds who had come back to the USA by that time because of the war and had a farm in Bucks County and the professor ah asked them if they would sponsor
00:23:12
Speaker
ah Nakashima's so we could get out of camp and so they did and they but they yeah They were working on government projects themselves um because you know, they needed work and they had to guarantee that they really needed a chicken farmer and that he was not allowed to do any other architectural projects, so He came over and all was better than being in camp. And he after a while he said chickens and he were not psychologically compatible. But they got him here and he went on from there. and But then then he ah he was just kind of puttering around out of the milk house at the Raymond farm trying to make furniture. And after a while he did rent a cottage down the road and and started his his workshop in earnest.
00:24:04
Speaker
With the introduction of the Ramans, he met Hans Knoll, and Hans and Shue Knoll wanted him to design some furniture that they would mass produce, and they he did get some recognition and as well as some practice that they made ah early I'm sorry they dad was pretty much by himself he had like one or maybe two helpers at times but he would make the prototypes for the null studios and then he would I think he even makes it made some of the early production in his own little shop.
00:24:39
Speaker
Amazing. So I think that gives you know us ah an idea of sort of the path that your your father went through spiritually, conceptually, geographically, monetarily, and and what bold moves. I was really struck by the, but I guess sometimes you don't have a choice. You really just have to step up in it. It seems like your father very much stepped up when he had to.
Mira Nakashima's Design Philosophy
00:25:05
Speaker
Well, yeah, he had to survive. Yeah, yeah survival. So can we turn the light now from your father and his design ethos and his philosophy of design about the spirituality of the tree and the the clean lines of Zen and you know the architectural base? And can we shine it on you now? So what would you say is your design philosophy? And is it similar or different or informed from your dad's?
00:25:32
Speaker
Well, um I worked under my dad for 20 years. And I started off, I had four young children. So I could only work part time. And I was basically my mother's gopher in the office in the beginning. And then when I finished up my gopher work, I got to play in the shop. And um so I made some of the the simpler pieces of furniture and And that was really fun. And then after a while I got to do some of the drawing. Dad up until that point had done all the drawing and he was doing these really, really, really sketchy sketches that he would give to the men in the shop.
00:26:08
Speaker
I mean, they were beautiful, but yeah i you know I'd look at them and say, how can they make anything from that, Dad? And he says, oh, they know how to do it. It's OK. so he would And I said, well, maybe they need a few more details so because I studied architecture. And I was really grateful that I studied architecture in Japan ah rather than just at Harvard undergrad ah because they were all involved with actually building buildings and and figuring out how to build buildings. And they were most of them were real buildings.
00:26:39
Speaker
It was the Atelier system, so we worked with ah professors who were ah making things as well as teaching. So that was really good experience. and And we had to learn how to collaborate. We were all put into groups of three, four, or five, depending on the project. And ah they were so patient with me. I had not any kind of drafting when I went to Japan.
00:27:03
Speaker
They had had four years of hard drafting. And so I had a lot of catch up to do, not just linguistically, but as technically I kind of know how to draw a straight line with a ruler practically. So and plus, it was also in metrics. Oh, my work in feet and inches and pounds. So was it that architectural training that largely inspires your design when you design a piece for Nakashima?
00:27:33
Speaker
Well, I think it ah i think was really good training. um yeah When I came in, and i I thought that we needed like three views of each piece of furniture rather than just one. I mean, he it was a perspective mostly that he he did his little sketches with, but I thought they should, you know, I should have three different views, the plan, and the two elevations, um so that we could put more dimensions on and and you know think through the designs. And um yeah I don't know, Dad just, i ah when in 2014,
00:28:10
Speaker
um no, it wasn't 2000, was it the 14? When Miriam came, 2007? I remember. I was so young. Anyway, it was about 17 years ago. I had my first design assistant because I couldn't keep up with everything after dad and mother both passed. And I also hired a manager about the same time. And he said, you really should record the standards And I thought, well, you that's that's a good idea. you know There have had been times when um we had to make make new parts for a chair or something. And I didn't know the dimensions or you know whatever. i'd I'd look at the chairs that we made before and they were all different.
00:28:54
Speaker
And then sometimes we'd make a cabinet and the outside dimensions were basically the same, but the details were all different. So um we started out um trying to figure out what the the standards were, and then you know we have those to to jump off from when we we have a new project. so um That's different from what dad did. I don't know if he just didn't have time to do drawings because he was doing everything in the very beginning. The office was the shop and that's where he made the furniture and finished it and everything else. And then when my brother came along, they he built another building for the office and for my aunt Thelma who came from Japan.
00:29:33
Speaker
And that was 1954. And um so she would you know she got the office a lot better organized. And and ah dad just kept on working in the shop and and was able to to manage everything that went on. But I don't know how. I mean, in the meantime, he was building buildings. Besides, he wasn't just making furniture. He was building buildings, designing and building buildings.
Balancing Design and Business in Furniture
00:30:00
Speaker
um Also with no drawings, particularly. That's crazy to me. Let's make sure there's no zoners or anything. I was going to say, that feels very much of the time as well, correct? That was before zoning came to Bucks County, so he got away. So, Mira, I'm curious. that you You got out of architecture school, you came back to work with your father, under your father, um got into the shop, got to do drawings, improve the drawings. It sounds to me like what you were doing is, ah aside from making your own mark as a designer on the business, you were implementing business strategies successfully to help the business move along you know into the 21st century. and
00:30:50
Speaker
I, as somebody who runs a small business in the furniture world, I'm very aware that being a good designer, being a good woodworker, and being a good business person are three very different skill sets. And you went to school to learn how to be a good designer.
00:31:07
Speaker
you You learned the tricks of those trades. When did you learn how to be a business person? like when When did that come about? I never did. um My mother used to manage all the business and ah end of it, and um she tried to make me help her in the office. I wasn't very good at it.
00:31:25
Speaker
um And after she died, we hired a bookkeeper to take care of the books. And um I don't know, I just kind of won it. See Paul, there's value in winging it. it's It's really that Venn diagram of woodworker and designer and business person. It's just like, it's a unicorn that sits in the center of all three of those. As you say, is Mira at the center? Yeah.
00:31:52
Speaker
She leans towards artist and designer. That's why we have manager. Yeah. so When I hired my my first assistant designer, I also hired a manager and he kind of took over the the ah strategic planning. The business savvy. The business end of things.
00:32:08
Speaker
ah So, you know, your your mother doesn't get mentioned as often, at least, you know, in the furniture conversation of it. But like you just said, your your mother was running the business end of things. And it sounds, at least from what you've said from your perspective as a child, like your dad was kind of the scatterbrained artist just making things and drawing things on the wall and people were making it. And your mom was like, hey, we have bills to pay. How are we going to make this happen?
00:32:33
Speaker
So what was that experience like like what was what was working with and under your mother as a child like and what are some of the things that you learned from her? Well, I do remember as a child, there were a lot of fights in the house. People would argue about this and that. And I remember there was one conversation. Mother would write down the schedule. I mean, she was also the scheduler. And dad would decide to make what he wanted to make in the shop. And she'd go, George, this is the schedule. This is one, this is two, and this is three. And then dad would go off and do something else.
00:33:11
Speaker
people It was a good balance. because functional relationship so people But that that brings up like one of the things I wanted to to really I was wondering about is like, what was that tension like? Because again, running a small business is hard. And like, especially I can only imagine running it with your partner with your spouse. So as from your perspective as a child, like,
00:33:38
Speaker
Did you know that your father would have this type of impact on the furniture world? Did it feel like it was growing, like it was bigger? or Did it feel like a struggle? No, it was, ah of course, it was the only family I ever had. So I didn't know that other kids had different kinds of families. um I was an only child for 13 years. um so i yeah And dad always had the business right, I mean, the shop.
00:34:08
Speaker
business right practically in the house or next to the room room right smack dab next to the house. anyway so I was always underfoot um either in the shop or in the house. and you know they um so there was ah and I think that was partly from his experience in India. They they talked about and taught the integral yoga in which one does not separate one's work from one's life. And your're you you know and so I think that was his ah intent on having his furniture business in his living room practically, um because he didn't want to separate life and work.
00:34:51
Speaker
and And did you enjoy that as it like, do you have fond memories of like being in the workshop with dad and just like playing or was it more of a thing of like, well, dad's working and he doesn't want to be bothered and mom wants me to do the books with her. So I got to learn. I never did the books. My brother did.
00:35:08
Speaker
ah But i was I was always in the shop. um And the the fellows in the shop, the ah you know I don't know what they thought about me. I was probably the, I was the shop pest, but they were my best friends. They were, you know, they I didn't have any siblings. So, you know, I ah I played underfoot with with the men in the shop. They're very happy I've taken that spot. I was going to ask that. Actually, Toshi, we were just going to come to that. So, Toshi, tell me what your experience has been like growing up in the Nakashima family. like
00:35:45
Speaker
um It's a very unique thing. um I think, well, definitely unique. I know that. um I've been surrounded by this stuff and um and been constantly experiencing different things that none of my friends could even relate to remotely.
00:36:05
Speaker
right um and I'm also the beneficiary of literally over 20 employees that are dedicated to making my family's legacy um a thing of the future. and um and There are hundreds of hundreds and hundreds of people that are interested in learning about my family and learning way too much about me.
00:36:26
Speaker
um and so it's a very um Interesting thing. I truly enjoy it because I have been gifted ah so many opportunities in my life ah that I've mostly squandered. ah But i I truly love it. um you know Giving tours ever since I was a kid, ah traveling the world, I got to go to India to see the re-edication of our peace altar over there, ah which I loved even though I mostly stared at my iPad the entire trip. It was 2014. I was really young. ah You were? Yeah.
00:37:04
Speaker
um so do you know You mentioned giving tours. you know Now that you're getting older and you know you've grown up in this ecosystem and and your appreciation for it is clear. you know Obviously, I think you you appreciate it more as you get older, I think all of us. you know go that way. But what would you say has been your unique contribution or like to the business? Is it is it the tours you give? Is that been your your favorite contribution? Can you share with us some of that? ah The tours I give ah as
00:37:38
Speaker
like my contribution I think is one of my most ah proud points. I think I give a good tour. I think that ah people enjoy them and they also enjoy the fact that they're a ah very unique ah ah unique perspective on our work because to me it's ah less work and more my life um because I haven't had to work here for that very long.
00:38:02
Speaker
Uh, and so it's, it's, um, I have a very unique perspective. I'm able to bring like kidish nature and like, Oh, this is what I did when I was a kid here. And this is what I, uh, do now. And it's, yeah, it's very different. I we i was on had a tour.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead. Well, Paul, you and I were on different tours, right? Yes, I was on tours with both of you. She goes there like monthly, apparently now. She's one of our regulars. We both had you on. We have a punch card for her. Regulars. She's coming up on her free tour. It's Mary again.
00:38:38
Speaker
So look at the stamp. It was, it really was. That was part of the charm of your tour. Yeah, for sure. I've toured a lot of places. You know, I'm a furniture history nerd and the charm of your tour was very casually. We were like, yeah, here's where we had my 18th birthday party. Yeah. Like this is where, you know, I was just like dumb stuff like that where it's just like it made it feel like a family rather than a business or an idea. And that's something that that I wanted to ask you about because you you did grow up in this unique position where George Nakashima in the furniture world is a Titan, right? He is on Mount Olympus. And you you inhabit this world where like, that's the case. And then yet you step out of the furniture world, which is a very small world. And nobody knows who George Nakashima is, right? Like he is he's a Titan. And he's the biggest fish in a very small pond.
00:39:34
Speaker
So I guess I don't know what that was like growing up um in New Hope, like do more people know him over there? Was it? What was that tension like when you're on the family property and you're like,
00:39:46
Speaker
i'm I'm a Nakashima. and class And then you walk off and everybody's like, who? And things like that. Yeah. The classmates don't care. I'll tell you right now. No one my age knows what's going on over here. um But it ah yeah, it's very unique. I mean, I'm like we, um well, I'm saying a lot of words that mean nothing.
00:40:08
Speaker
ah we Talk to a lot of different artists and a lot of organizations that work for artists and i recently well really recently we had an event where there was a girl that was about my age but she was the great granddaughter of a different artist um same generation incredibly talented fellow but.
00:40:27
Speaker
um We are in very different situations and it's just a spin of the wheel really of how lucky we are where we're in this position where we yeah we have staff that work for us that are able to do this kind of stuff for us rather than than her who literally has to do her archiving herself.
00:40:43
Speaker
Um, and so it's, it's put, placed me in a very unique, um, man, I'm really lucky and I'm really privileged. And I feel like a mini, mini, mini celebrity whenever I'm walking around, but it's also like no one outside. i told you that's part of it That's an opportunity to teach them about how inspiring and exciting. right yeah Are you, are you studying? Oh, go ahead.
00:41:12
Speaker
I also want to say it's really nice to like our staff is like a family to me. A lot of the employees that we've had have been working for us or been with us for longer than I've been alive ah to the point where they get angry when they see me because they're like, oh man, this kid is an adult now.
00:41:33
Speaker
But I've become really close with them and I'm really happy that I get to work with them now. know Can I ask what you're studying in school? like oh but Oh, I'm so undeclared. I'm taking three classes this term at our local community college to supplement my work here. So I'm working full time here as well as taking these three classes. I just started my drawing class, um but I'm also taking a management class and an accounting class.
00:42:04
Speaker
so Would you say you're more like in the art vein or more in the science analytical vein? Do you have ah do you have a ah path showing up yet? I love art. I have been surrounded by it. It wasn't a choice when I was a kid. I had to love art and then I developed my love for art.
00:42:20
Speaker
um But I am not as much of a creator as other people around me. um i The word I use for like the great talented artists that I know is obsessed. They are obsessed with their craft. They love it. It's all like in it's encumbering how much they think about it. um For me, I just don't have that exact same drive, at least yet. um And so that's why I work in the sales and public relations department of our of our company. It's because I'm
00:42:53
Speaker
one of the few people at work that's sociable enough to you write emails. That was a telling laugh, by the way. Man, woodworkers are introverts a lot of the time. I don't know what to tell you. That is true. But it's ah it's also just something that I actually enjoy. so Well, so, Toshi, I think you just answered this question, at least to an extent, but I want to ask it anyway. um Because I think for a lot of woodworkers,
00:43:23
Speaker
there there's a moment where you kind of fall in love with the thing and you go like, oh, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this. Now, whether professionally or as an all encompassing hobby, right? Like this is where my life's path is taking me.
00:43:39
Speaker
Did you have a moment like that? Was there a thing where like, you were at the house, you saw somebody making a thing, or you just, you know, you saw your grandmother doing a thing, ah talking to a client, whatever the thing was, did you have a moment where you're like, I want to be a part of this business?
00:43:57
Speaker
As far as a moment goes, I don't think so. it's just I never did. yeah no It's just a billion times where omosis you're giving a tour or you're talking to a customer and you enjoy the conversation because man, our customers are interesting.
00:44:14
Speaker
um And you just kind of grow to and grow to like it.
Evolution of Nakashima Designs
00:44:19
Speaker
um I've seen my mother talk to customers about 10,000 times and each time she has the same enthusiasm, which is crazy. That's great. man heartring um but I don't know. It just that's always been something that I've been interested in and attracted to is just that kind of work. So I had a little tension. You both sound ah far more emotionally ah stable than I am. So I applaud you both on that. But I'm curious, Paul, if I can cut your your question real quick, because I want to. Mary, you said you never had a moment like that either. And it was just through us. No, I just I just grew up with it. And um ah well, I guess I mean
00:45:01
Speaker
I never, when I grew up, we never had television. I didn't have any siblings, so I had to play in the shop, and I usually had to figure out what to play with by myself, and there was plenty of sawdust, so I used to play with the sawdust. And, you know, when I got older, I got bigger scraps to play with, and and it was just no just... It's just part of my life, but I never really thought... and In fact, when I ah graduated from high school and went to college, I thought I would really want to major in music and maybe mathematics because I was good at both of those. And then dad said, nope, you're studying architecture. And I thought, okay, I guess I can do that.
00:45:46
Speaker
But it was it turned out to be good training um because it did did encompass both art and science yeah and and you know involved using your hands and your eyes and figuring things out. That's really interesting. Yeah, that's why I majored in it too. Art, math, science, drawing, creativity, it's like a good blend.
00:46:11
Speaker
but I didn't stay in the field, but you know that's what happens. I mean, none of the architects here stayed in their field. Exactly. Yeah, but I think there is there's something. oh We still make all of our drawings by hand. I mean, we still draw everything with pencils and paper.
00:46:30
Speaker
um Because I think there is a part of your brain and part of your psyche when you're doing things by hand that's different when you than when you do it on a computer. It's just like a whole different world and I don't want to lose touch with that that tactile um part of making things.
00:46:51
Speaker
um Can I ask because i I obviously came from an architecture background, so I wanted to pry a little bit about the your way of designing. So when I'm designing a piece of furniture, because I have the architectural training and I think about you know like the environment of the piece, where it's going to be living, what it should how it should fit um and Into the layout and the style. Do you consider that when when you come up with your own unique pieces? um Oh, I just definitely yeah, and most of what we do is made to order so and I we usually Invite our clients or clients to be to send a scaled room drawings and photographs or whatever it is and so forth So we study the environment very carefully um we also
00:47:39
Speaker
as you know we figure out you know if they like a particular color or a particular shape or a particular style of table and then we go out in the lumber shed and see what we can find that is close to that it's sometimes it's a long search and sometimes it's a short search you never know when you're going to stumble on the right piece.
00:47:59
Speaker
I mean, I've seen our designers, they they consider it constantly like, oh, you know, this would be a great desk for them if it wasn't left handed. You know, it would it won't work for the space or like this couch would be perfect if not if it was a little like a little bit shorter because it won't fit into their room. or Sure. Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. The amount of not ridiculous. We are trying to do it. ah But it's it's it's a lot, a lot of effort.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, I remember once many, many years ago we had a friend whose daughter was an interior designer and she ordered this cabinet and then she couldn't get it up the stairs to her apartment. It's a classic Craig's List.
00:48:45
Speaker
yeah issue Interesting. Okay. And in terms of the designs that you produce, I was curious, like, have you, as you produce your designs for the Nakashima line, like, do have you modernized any designs or would you consider any of the ones that you've produced typically like more modern and of the time, or does that not come into your thinking?
00:49:09
Speaker
I don't know. it i i' My nose is so close to the bench. I don't see the difference. um I think when my dad first died, um his father was asked that same question. He said, well, mom's designs look more like spaceships than grandpa's did. I guess that's more modern. I don't know. i mean that's the base i was I was just in Korea and I so ah met with one of our clients who works with a bunch of different ah furniture designers and I saw the works of a company that's some European country but their work is very similar to ours but it's very modern and ah it kind of painted a stark contrast between our work and theirs where
00:49:53
Speaker
they're leaning into um like a more current market and like um trendy kind of stuff where I mean we just make what we make. Yeah and we let the wood be what it is. um I think a lot of designers will manipulate it somehow or other or color it or change it but we like to use the materials as they are and that's that's a tradition that dad started.
00:50:19
Speaker
I did like some of the work though they had a standing desk oh you you have to show me pictures yeah it went up and down um um we made a we made a desk like that once yeah we do have some pieces that like I don't know we're making a guitar stand right now that's a cool oh that's really cool
00:50:41
Speaker
Toshi, I was going to ask you, you you were talking about design now. Toshi, have you designed your own pieces yet? And and oh actually, wait, before you answer that, I'm curious. So if yes, if yes, how many and Mira, how many pieces have you designed that were uniquely you?
00:50:58
Speaker
I never counted them. It's just that many. We should have the Mira collection. yeah no you really should we When we did our recent catalog, which is called a process book, um there is a page in the back and my-authors thought that we should differentiate which designs were actually mine and which ones were dad's. So there is a list. And I forget how many are on my list now, but there is a list. Yeah. I have designed my own furniture ah in school, in middle school and high school and now in college when I took my woodworking class there. That's cool.
00:51:36
Speaker
um just simple basic real basic pieces i made like a chair in elementary school and then a little side table and then i made a bench in high school which what i was actually proud of none of the other things i've been proud of uh and then i have made one mira chair uh in my life which is completely wrong um i did some of the sanding wrong but it is mine And that makes it my own unique design.
00:52:06
Speaker
I do like that you opened with, I designed a chair in elementary school, as though the chair isn't the hardest thing in furniture to design. yeah That was a good flex. I like that. It was a simple chair. I'm not gonna lie. Sure, but still. um Can I ask Mira about your design process? Because Mary and I have, I would say, as close to opposing design processes as could be possible ah with her trained architecture background. It is think, iterate, think some more, draw, iterate, draw some more, maybe model, think some more, have a panic attack, then maybe make a piece of furniture. here
00:52:44
Speaker
Whereas I kinda am more like your father and I do a loose sketch and I go, I'll figure it out when I get there. ah like where Where do you fall in your design process? Are you, well, first of all, I'll ask the second question first. Are you at a point now where you've designed so many pieces, you just draw it and you know if it's gonna work?
00:53:05
Speaker
Pretty much, yeah. And I have two assistant designers who do most of the ah the working drawings nowadays, but they always run them by me um before they go to the shop. And um I think it's just because I've done them so often I sure i will sometimes change things or modify things um sure so they'll work. And so far they've all worked.
00:53:27
Speaker
um ah so Yeah, we haven't had any pieces come back like this isn't physically possible. right some um Little tables have been tippier than others, but aside. Right, right. Well, and so that brings me to the the first question I was gonna ask is, do you iterate? Do you model things? Do you make small models or full scale mockups to make sure they work? No, you just ride with it. Yeah.
00:53:55
Speaker
That's amazing. I just made a model relatively recently of something small but now we don't. Yeah, my assistant designer did things like that. She created her own table, um which we weren't sure quite how to put it together or how to make it work or whether it would balance or not. So we did a mock-up of it. And I thought, oh, we're wasting all this time and material making her design. And then, you know, what does she think she is?
00:54:26
Speaker
But it it worked out in the end. it It was much more complicated to make than most most of our structure is pretty simple. it's You know just have a couple of joints and to hold it together and you know legs long enough to support the top and you're done.
00:54:43
Speaker
ah That simplifies a very- That's a good way to to summarize it. yeah It's just a piece of wood with some legs underneath it. That's what a table is. Yeah. Chair is a little more complicated. Sure. ah what's ah Curiosity, what's the balance of the output? Is it like more tables and more tables than chairs or is it 50-50? What's the rough breakdown of your output?
00:55:08
Speaker
You know, I haven't counted. Do you have any idea? It's really it really depends on the year, honestly. Well, sometimes it also depends on trends. Sometimes we'll have um customers upon customers that are asking for the specific design of a chair. And sometimes we'll have um ah an article that mentions one of our coffee tables and then we'll have a bunch of those be ah ordered. So it really depends on the year.
00:55:30
Speaker
Yeah, but if ah usually it's pretty well balanced. We have um three people working full time in the chair department and um there are how many? there are six Six in the shop. And then we have two in the finishing and but one of them in the finishing is an apprentice. So she's in between shops right now because we have no physical space. bouncing We have a couple of new people in in the shop. We sort of bounce them around to wherever we need them. Cleaning the pool.
00:55:58
Speaker
I mean, you got to have another birthday party pretty soon. Yeah, picking up the ice cream. Yeah, that's Toshi's job. He gets ice cream for the shop in the summertime. That's very important. That's not a bad job, man. No wonder he's so popular. Yeah, I am a dictator of ice cream.
00:56:15
Speaker
but That's a great title. Honest ice cream dictator. Toshi, if you ever write an autobiography, buddy, I feel like that's your your title right there. Yeah, that's a strong ice cream. Well, ah so with with respect to design, and we'll start wrapping up soon so we can go to our our segment and feature a fail, um I had one last question before we sort of wrap up and ask some sort of big picture questions. One last question about design, which is, Mira, one of the things you know, being in the field so long and you've designed so many pieces, you know, is there a piece in the back of your head that you haven't tried yet that's just sitting there and kind of nagging at you like, try me, try me. I remember Sam Maloof had that. Sam Maloof had that and it was a chaise lounge.
00:57:04
Speaker
And I think that was the last piece he ever made. and he It was not he described it as this just it's back there in the back burner. I just didn't have time to get to it. Do you have any nagging ideas?
00:57:19
Speaker
No, not really. um i know there's a i mean Part of the reason and we just kept going after dad passed away is that he had this huge pile of lumber. Oh my gosh, we we just got to keep trying to use it up because it'll go to waste otherwise the bugs will get it. and um that And I remember once ah when we were doing our or taxes for the year or something, the bookkeeper wanted me to get a tally on the value of the wood. And dad told me that wood is worthless to anything until it's made into furniture. So I figured we should keep
00:58:00
Speaker
keep chipping away at that end of that pile of wood. And there are pieces of wood in there that that um that are sort of crying out to be made into something. And, you know, that is in the back of my mind. and so so Did you hear that, Eric? yeah It sounds like you do the thing I do, or like Paul does sometimes, where it like you see a piece of wood and you're like, I know exactly what that is. It's just not the time to do it right now.
00:58:25
Speaker
ah That was one of George's abilities that we're lucky enough where she has the same ability and yeah we have a couple of woodworkers that have it where they literally see a a wood aboard being sawed at the mill and they're like, that's I know we got exactly what we're going to do with yeah that one. yes so yeah You have that mirror? You have that vision? Well, i yeah, dad dragged me along to the sawmill for years. so I got used to doing that.
Future of Nakashima Woodworking
00:58:53
Speaker
Wow, that's incredible. and i think that's that's a that's ah yeah I don't know if you can learn that. Maybe you can learn that through many years of osmosis, but I do feel like there's an aptitude that is in some people to be able to see see the diamond in the rough. and ah that That's a big part of designing successfully at woodworking.
00:59:14
Speaker
So you know how do we how do we wrap up? How do you take this huge conversation you know and kind of you know put it into a ah sphere? And I'll just start by saying, well, I'll start by saying that the story you told about your dad showed, I think all of us, periods of cure intense curiosity, um trying to find yourself.
00:59:43
Speaker
spirituality, learning who you are, falling into the the moments of like unexpected hard circumstances, rising to the occasion, doing what you had to do for your family, taking bold leaps to start something, always thinking big. like I don't know. That's just sort of the feeling I get about this this ah story arch that you've told me. And it's so brilliant that you picked up the reins after your dad's passing and have kept the legacy not only going but growing from what he started. it's It's phenomenal. And so I would ask you, are there as you look forward now into the future of the business, what do you see? And are there any major goals that you have in your view right now?
01:00:31
Speaker
Well, we've been having lots of discussions about what comes next. or And it always ah boils down to who's running the show next, or you know who's going to be the head designer. and and know who's And my manager's been really good at making sure that we keep hiring younger and younger people so that the older people can train them before they retire.
01:00:57
Speaker
And i i right now we have one of the assistant designers studied architecture before he came to us. And I figured that would be handy because there are 15 buildings on the property. They're all getting old. um They need to be maintained. And it helps just having somebody who knows architecture on site. But beyond that, he's he's good at visualizing things and making sure that the structure works.
01:01:25
Speaker
And when I hire my designers, I make sure that they they do really nice pencil drawings um because that's really important to me that they are ah they have that artistic um ability. and They're not just technicians. I mean, a lot of people are are good at doing joinery and banging out furniture, but they don't have the artistry. But I think the art is really important.
01:01:50
Speaker
um And the skills, ah woodworking skills as well as visualizing skills um are are important and humility is really important. um Over the years we've had some people who had a really big ego and they wanted to do their things their way and they didn't want to do things dad's way and they didn't last very long.
Personal Reflections and Lessons
01:02:11
Speaker
ah so ah we Right now we our manager is really good at hiring and that we have um we have a ah whole shop full of people who get along really well and the the beautiful thing is what?
01:02:28
Speaker
Oh, I didn't say that. He said that. Having a group of people working in a shop that get along that yeah that makes like that comes through in the work. Yeah. Ice cream is a good social lubricant. Social lubricant.
01:02:44
Speaker
to Toshi are wise beyond your years. Well, I can't exactly buy them beer when they're working. that' you don't like yeah but The beautiful thing is that many of the men in our shop um have um artistic training. you know they've They've had art in their backgrounds. So it's not just woodworking that they're familiar with. They're they're used to art. And um our designers, have I also hire people who have had experience in woodworking.
01:03:21
Speaker
so they know how to make stuff they're not just putting pictures on a piece of paper and telling somebody else to make it they know how to make it so it makes a difference and there's there's a lot of dialogue that goes on between the design department and the woodworking department because no matter how well you construct your drawings.
01:03:39
Speaker
It's sometimes different when it gets on the bench or a piece of it will fall off or the knot will disappear in the planer or whatever. There's always things that happen that are different on the bench than they are on on your ah drawing board.
01:03:55
Speaker
yeah So but they're we're right next to each other. I mean, this is the beauty of Nakashima's too, is that we are an integrated process. The designers are right there. The wood pile is right there. The wood shop is right there. The office is there. The finishing room is there. So we you know we we talk to each other a lot.
01:04:15
Speaker
Great. All right. um ah one ah two Two more questions in in regards to wrapping up. So, you know, you've been there a long time, Mira. Did everything going ah go according to plan or had have things ah gone sideways periodically that you had to correct?
01:04:37
Speaker
Well, first of all, I didn't have any particular plan. i When I went to college and went to Japan and grad school and married one of my classmates, I didn't think I was ever going to come home again, um but I did.
01:04:53
Speaker
Dad offered me a job and my children were young at the time and um my husband really wasn't supporting us completely well. And so we figured you know we could use a little extra money. At least I thought we could use a little extra money. He didn't like me working though.
01:05:11
Speaker
He's a traditional Japanese man who thought women should stay home and take care of the kids and have dinner ready when he came home, but that didn't always happen. So we eventually parted ways. So that wasn't according to plan, I guess. That's true. Eric and I know a little something about that as well. We can both attest to that, yeah.
01:05:36
Speaker
And then um John, my current husband, was was one of the woodworkers. And he was married to somebody else when he started also. So um we parted ways with our spouses about the same time and commiserated about that and became friends. And then we've been together ever since. What a lovely story to hear. I know. How cute. How cute.
01:06:01
Speaker
i love I love that one of the people in our field who is held up in the in the highest regard basically just said, there's no plan.
01:06:12
Speaker
you just you just to I think to quote yoshi from ah Toshi from early part, you just try to make a good thing. like That's all there is to it, right? Well, dad's favorite advice to me was the best you can do is the best you can do.
01:06:27
Speaker
And he was a Boy Scout, so you'd do your best. I like that. That sounds... My mom's favorite statement is just don't mess up. That sounds like Mary. Mary, did you say that at one point? You can't mess up if there is no plan, right? You can definitely mess up.
01:06:46
Speaker
Alright, the hardest question is for last. Mira and Toshi, individually. for your contribution at Nakashima, what grade would you give yourself? In totality, thinking in totality, what grade would you give yourself on your ah career report card? Don't be humble here. Be honest.
01:07:09
Speaker
Should I answer first? Should I give you more time? I'll give you more time. I'm a solid ooh. and yeah I almost gave myself too good of a score and then I remembered. I don't know if that's even in the alphabet. Oh, I invented it just for my grade. I think um i think um ah B minus, b B, B or B minus.
01:07:36
Speaker
that's Uh, I do my job, I do my job and I do the parts of my job that I'm good at well. Um, but the parts I'm still learning, I'm still learning. Uh, so that's very wise. good answer That's a good answer. Very wise. And Toshi, I would, I would agree with Eric sentiment about your tour. I also had your tour and it was not lost on me how lucky I was to have a tour from a family member who could be like,
01:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, I used to play on that cabinet over there. i use yeah I mean, that kind of I mean, how many tours have all of us been on? Like that aren't like that. It's just, you know, mailing very dry. Yeah. So british you gave us a view into your your family's legacy. And I felt so fortunate to have had that tour with you. So I think your B should be a B plus.
01:08:27
Speaker
i second yeah umtic somewhere though i'm going c plus actually i'm going c plus got to grow he's not the marvellow seek get clarity that's that's wisdom right i five four i do need it to you All right Mira, it's decision time. Well, I would say maybe a B is
01:08:52
Speaker
I'm going to respectfully disagree.
01:08:58
Speaker
Interesting. No, you don't do everything right. and the you like ah My parents certainly knew that and drilled that into my head. i mean well speak we're lucky We're lucky enough we're a lot of the job. We have so many employees that do such an incredible job yeah that we can have um gaps ah in ourselves personally, but together we make an incredible, fantastic team.
01:09:27
Speaker
um Yeah, we should be like um the Power Rangers. That's fantastic. know well What you described is everyone, Toshi. We all have gaps and we all try to find ways to make it work, whether it's through the generosity of others that we work with or finding ways to cope with it ourselves.
Feature a Fail Segment
01:09:42
Speaker
Speaking of which, ah you know making mistakes and failing, that's our segment for today. We like to have a segment called Feature of Fail. I think our listeners know that we've done this a few times, where instead of talking about our successes,
01:09:56
Speaker
we talk about a recent failure because I do think social media gives us an an unreasonable bar because everyone just shows their best work. Everything is fantastic all the time. And you see social media and you say, what's wrong with me? That's not how it feels for me in the shop. But we're, of course, we want to dispel that because it's not like that for any of us. It's just social media. So feature or fail is our attempt to get real with everyone and let them know that they're not alone. And we're all making and mistakes all the time. Eric, would you like to go first?
01:10:34
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be a woodworking related. It doesn't have to be woodworking related. This this this I just thought of this literally 30 seconds ago. So this will be my feature. of And it's woodworking adjacent. So Mira, Toshi, I also make videos, ah put out YouTube videos. And just today, I put out a new video for ah for my patrons and it hasn't even hit YouTube yet. That's not till Saturday. But the whole video, a 20 minute video is about tapered laminations bent tapered laminations and I go through the whole process designing the piece I was working with a patron and and we build this beautiful thing it's got these cross you know ah tapered cross braces and doing these curved half laps and miter the corners it's a gorgeous piece that I put the video together I'm like this is a great video
01:11:20
Speaker
And the first thing somebody comments on Patreon was, so the video is about tapered bent laminations. um You never addressed how you tapered any of the laminations. You just so you just said that they were tapered. And I was like, how how did I not see? I spent two days editing this video. How did I overlook the basic fact of like, yeah, they get thinner, but how?
01:11:43
Speaker
so That was- Two in the weeds. Two in the weeds. I was too i was too ah focused on the trees. I lost the forest. but it's a Silly mistake. oh that's I mean, that happens to everyone. It happens to the best of us. I mean, literally every other email I do. No, I'm kidding. Mary, you're up.
01:12:05
Speaker
Okay, mine is from this last weekend, and I'm like a little embarrassed to admit this on air, I'm not gonna lie, but I was practicing dovetails because I've been trying to get better at them, and I was chopping the tails, and then I was, i went they looked great, super happy, very proud, took photos, moved on to the pins, and then as I'm trying to put them together, like what these aren't, these aren't fitting, and then I realized I had chopped two sets of tails,
01:12:33
Speaker
That just like, cause I had, I had, I had like cut out the wrong part of the wood. I had, like, I had two impacts, but I just like completely missed that. Oh, classic. I was like, these aren't fitting at all. The worst part, I was like, all right, I got another hour. Let me do it again. No, you didn't. And then I mess up again. I went home and ordered myself a pizza. I was like, this is it. I can't, I can't do it anymore. This is most classic woodworking. So, that's a fail. Yep. We've all been there.
01:13:03
Speaker
I thought you were gonna say you made some shovetails. Mm-hmm. Shuktales. Is that reverse shuktales? Shuktales, yeah. Instead of wedging them in, they're just like... i'll go I'll go third to give Toshi and Mira time to ready their answers. I was doing a keepsake box recently, and I like, on the top lid, it it floats in a groove, and I like to have bevels on all four sides of it, so it's a nice flat, but then it bevels into the slots that it sits in around the box.
01:13:35
Speaker
And ah to cut those, i've i sometimes you do those bevels with just a hand plane and you just, you know, make marking lines and just go slow. And sometimes I cut them at the table saw just to get the primary bevel established. So I'm cutting it on the table saw and the first couple cuts go great. And I'm like, oh, that's nice, nice bevels. Everything's great. And then the third one,
01:13:58
Speaker
it goes into the blade and it starts giving me this resistance and I'm like that's weird I don't see it catching on anything and I keep pushing it a little bit you know I don't want to force it too much but I realized it's going down into the the throat plate of the saw. It lost its contact with the table and it was going into the the gap between the mouth plate and the saw blade. That's why it was giving me resistance. And so not only was it, is the the bevel totally blown to hell,
01:14:30
Speaker
but and like there's nasty black saw marks up the bevel and this is like a really really pristine piece of beautiful English walnut half like half of it with like heartwood all different colors the other part had like curl to it and I completely butchered it because I let it go into it I wasn't using a zero clearance insert and it went down into the saw And it's happened before I did that same thing before.
01:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, you'll never do it again. No, now I've done it twice now. He'll learn this time. No, twice is enough. He won't learn this time. All right, Toshi, you're up. I'm flawless.
01:15:16
Speaker
i That's a tough act to follow. No. It is. I just started my drawing class and I've been doing my homework for the past few days where I have to draw random objects that I see ah doing a lot of, you know, nature stuff because it's what I'm around and also um something that she suggested. And I realized I've been using the wrong kind of pencil this entire time so she's not going to accept any of this stuff that I've been doing. And I'm not good at drawing, and I'm not fast, and so this is a real setback for me. Oh, that's brutal. There's gonna be a real weekend for me. That's brutal. Oh, buddy, sorry. You got you got to practice it. Yeah, the second the second time around will be just so much better. Ooh, fast. What are you gonna do? All right, Mira, what do you got for us?
01:16:10
Speaker
ah Well, I had a problem with my email this week. I don't know what happened to it. i um there My computer sent out all kinds of weird messages to all kinds of people that I haven't contacted for years. And so I had to deal with with all them. ah But that wasn't really my mistake.
01:16:32
Speaker
yeah ah Just ate up a lot of time. Yeah, it was one of those vacation responder things and it just went off and sent it to someone. What did he say? What did the message say? I decided not to register for your seminar or something. yeah it's it went out to We've had multiple like I think 30 calls. We've had calls come in where they're like, hey, I just got this email from Mira. I haven't spoken to her for 18 years. um and And I'm not giving a seminar, so I don't know what she's talking about. That's exactly what happened. yeah
01:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. That was annoying. Yes. Wow. Our inboxes have been flooded for the past four years. That's hilarious. And my junk mail is was already too much, and it was just way over. You've got over 40,000 emails. Oh, Today? No, not today. Well, maybe tonight.
01:17:34
Speaker
So, Mira, I don't know if if Toshi told you, but when i when i talked to when I asked you to be on the podcast and you said, yeah, send me an email, but if I don't respond, just send me another email because my inbox has a lot of emails in it. don't get it And so when i when Toshi gave me the tour and I found out he was your grandson, I came up to Toshi after the tour and I said, listen,
01:17:55
Speaker
I'm going to send your grandmother an email. And if it gets lost in her inbox, I need you to grease the skids a little bit and like like whisper in her ear about the podcast in case it gets lost. Yeah. Did you have to do that or did? Well, you sent me a copy of it. i've been Yeah, I've been keeping track of it. Oh, I'm actually a good man, Toshi. Thank you, Toshi. Appreciate you. So basically we owe this episode to Toshi, indirectly. Thank you. Well, thank you. Honestly, this was a fantastic conversation. It was it was really wonderful. It was really illuminating. Amazing to hear all of this from you. Thank you guys for taking the time to to chat with us. Oh, it was fun. Thank you. but It was brilliant to get to know all of you. And Mira, if they want to get in touch with you regarding furniture or to learn more Nakashima, what would be the best way for them to contact you?
01:18:48
Speaker
inquiring on the website Well, yeah, visit our website first. It's NakashimaWoodworkers.com. And then um I think there's a link that they could contact. Yeah, there's a link that says make an inquiry. It goes to our info email. And then it will most likely be responded by one of our sales team, including myself or ah my mom. Or it will get forwarded to the design department, which is so three of us.
01:19:11
Speaker
So if they address it to the, well, is it the ice cream dictator? secret code so they know Toshi, you know, I'm going to send you an email this week. without is Yeah.
01:19:26
Speaker
Listen, I am the king of Klondikes, the ice cream dictator. These are brilliant names. Toshi got to start a t-shirt line, buddy. King of Klondikes.
01:19:37
Speaker
yeah po I would wear that to work. they would yeah yeah We have a t-shirt we're in contest and people come in with all kinds of stuff on their shirts.
01:19:48
Speaker
amazing. Just a Klondike bar with a crown. but there's She's gonna win. That's a good Halloween concert. That's a strong one. Well, thank you again for coming on the show. I just I cannot express how interesting it was to get an inside view into your family's heritage, this wonderful company. I I'm almost at a loss for words, but I'll just end with thank you very, very much for coming on the podcast. too Oh, thank you for having us. It was fun. And thank you, Toshi, for bringing your computer, because mine didn't work. Once again, Toshi saves the day. Toshi saves the day. It's a five minute drive. All right, everyone. Well, we hope you enjoyed the master series today, and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye. See you next time. Goodbye. Thank you.