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Why Are There Tampons in the Men’s Bathroom?
34 Plays22 days ago
Why are there menstrual products in men’s bathrooms - and why is it sparking backlash?
In this episode of Gender in Focus, we unpack one of the most surprising inclusion debates showing up in workplaces, schools and public spaces. As organizations begin introducing free menstrual products in all washrooms, including men’s and all-gender washrooms, many are discovering that what seemed like a simple wellbeing initiative can quickly become complex.
We explore why menstrual products in men’s washrooms can trigger strong reactions, what this reveals about assumptions around gender and biology, and how these decisions can affect trans men, non-binary people and even cisgender men in ways that are not always obvious.
From gender dysphoria (the intense distress or discomfort someone may feel when their body, social role, or how others perceive them does not align with their gender identity) and washroom safety to disposal logistics, period poverty and workplace culture, this conversation looks at what thoughtful implementation can actually look like in real environments. We also discuss why copying approaches from women’s bathrooms does not always work, and how organizations can respond in ways that reduce harm, build inclusion and avoid unintentionally creating new barriers to participation.
If you have been wondering how inclusive washroom policies work in practice, why menstrual products at work can become controversial, or how to support trans inclusion in everyday infrastructure decisions, this episode offers practical insight you can actually use.
Download our FREE resource here: https://www.transfocus.ca/s/Providing-Free-Menstrual-Products-in-Washrooms.pdf
Topics include:
- Menstrual products in men’s washrooms
- Tampons and pads in public and workplace bathrooms
- Trans men and menstruation
- Gender dysphoria and washroom safety
- Period poverty and access to free products
- Inclusive and gender neutral washroom design
- Workplace backlash and cultural readiness
- Disposal logistics and practical implementation
- Supporting trans and non-binary inclusion in everyday systems
Recommended
Transcript
The Complexities of Providing Free Menstrual Products
00:00:05
Speaker
been a growing push for workplaces and public spaces to provide free menstrual products in washrooms, which on the surface seems like a pretty straightforward improvement. At the same time, once you move past the initial decision to provide them, there can be a surprising amount of complexity around where they're available and how people actually feel accessing them. In some cases, it can also become unexpectedly controversial, especially when the conversation turns to products appearing in spaces that people don't traditionally associate with menstruation, such as men's washrooms. I'm so glad to be here with Kai. How are you doing? I'm doing quite well. How about yourself?
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm very hot, Kai. I feel very, very hot. Is it like the sun's coming in? i think the sun is coming in I'm feeling slightly flustered from having to do the intro. And I'm feeling sort of overwhelmingly hot. But if I take my hat off, I'm going to look...
Inclusivity in Menstrual Product Availability
00:01:01
Speaker
like a wild person so i just have to remain hot a multitude of sins oh you have no idea but i'm good aside from that i'm great excellent um it feels like in the last few years we've started seeing menstrual products appear more often in public washrooms and workplaces and and things like that um When people picture who is needing those products, they're most likely thinking about women. And so we see that in the language it's also being used too. It's not just menstrual products. Often it's sort of framed as feminine products or there's just this sort of a lot of weight on this being something for women. And so I wanted to first, like, I feel like that's a place to start where we can just go into why that's not exactly accurate.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yes. And just thinking about being mindful of the type of language that we use, right? Obviously, for the majority of users, it's going to be cis women. So we're not necessarily discounting that or trying to veer away from that or anything. But we are trying to widen the circle a little bit to include other genders that also menstruate and where maybe it's not initially visible to folks that, say, for example, trans men who are assigned female at birth. or even non-binary folks who are also assigned female at birth, all of these people are also men's street, but they're not necessarily accessing women's spaces. And so may not have direct access to the products that are being, trying to be provided, right?
Backlash and Hostility in Men's Spaces
00:02:40
Speaker
So of course, you're going to put them in women's spaces, understandably so, given that the majority of folks who are going to be using them are cisgender women. but not to lose sight of you know another population that typically gets underserved, um especially when we're talking about what is commonly named period poverty, right? So people who need access to these free products because they are so expensive. And when we think about trans and non-binary folks, they are overly represented in a lower socioeconomic bracket. And so...
00:03:17
Speaker
Wanting to address period poverty should include them as well, given the socioeconomic challenges. oh So a lot of organizations are starting to put menstrual products in men's spaces as well as all gender spaces and women's spaces. We are seeing that um that happen. And I don't know if it's surprising or not. I was gonna say unsurprisingly, but I don't know if that's entirely fair. um But we are seeing some backlash to that. A lot of people can be quite upset about seeing that um that happen. So I wanted to get your thoughts on why it is seen as so controversial. Like what's what's the big deal is my question.
00:03:58
Speaker
Fair, fair, fair. So yeah, the menstrual products menstrual products showing up in men's spaces, we have seen time and time again in the work that we've done with clients um and just media articles that we read.
00:04:14
Speaker
It creates, ah because sometimes there's tremendous amount of backlash and Sometimes that takes the well-meaning organizations aback. They're like, holy crap, but we didn't expect this type of um virulent, hostile treatment towards men's store products in men's spaces. It can show up as vandalism.
00:04:36
Speaker
So people marking all kinds of things on the dispensing units. It can mean completely removing them at all. um It can be comments shared, usually anonymously, um whether on social media or through comment um avenues.
00:04:55
Speaker
And basically just very hostile. Why are these products in these spaces? It doesn't make sense. We don't need them. um right Sometimes i feel that Because it's lumped in with femininity, and oftentimes some, although very few, um maybe not very few, but, you know, fewer and men have a desire for establishing masculinity in ways where any hint of what in their minds is femininity is like an affront to some degree, right? Mm-hmm.
00:05:31
Speaker
And it it can come out in very strong ways that for the products that they are and that they don't apply to them, you just kind of leave them. you know right yeah That would be a healthy response. Right.
00:05:47
Speaker
so much wrapped up in in our society these days, it can come out in different ways. And so it's really important for organizations to be aware of this type of backlash because it doesn't just fall on the organization. It actually gets redirected and can often fall on trans and non-binary folks.
00:06:08
Speaker
Right. If they're known in the organization, then people can be like, well, because of you, now we have ridiculous things like menstrual products and men's
Legal Requirements and Washroom Configurations
00:06:18
Speaker
spaces.
00:06:18
Speaker
And that can make it further hard or difficult or traumatic to be trans in the workplace or at school or wherever else they're implementing this type of approach.
00:06:32
Speaker
I had a conversation with somebody this week about menstrual products. Yeah, funnily enough. It was a conversation of a cis guy who has a teenage daughter who had her first period in the mall and they had three menstrual products and having a panic. And he was able to quickly jump into the guy's, ah the guy's washroom, grab a pad and then bring it to her. her so that she could be in like I don't know there was just like a really beautiful dynamic there was just it's not actually just about you personally whether you need it there are people who do need it but there is also a caregiving element where it extends beyond just trans people this is like there are a lot of uses for this
00:07:15
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I love that story so much. It's such a perfect illustration that, yeah, sure, the driver might be trans and non-binary folks in the men that use men's washrooms, but at the end of the day, it can also help cisgender men be there for the people who are menstruating in their lives, right? Like, yeah that this involves them too, because menstruation is not like...
00:07:40
Speaker
I don't know, that we have very distorted notions of menstruation in our society in general. And the more we can get everyone kind of more comfortable, one, it happens. And two, we need to support folks, whether we personally experience it or not. And ah how can we be there? And what can we do to make that possible from an organizational and individual level?
00:08:03
Speaker
And i presumably there were also free products in the women's washrooms, but I think she was just having a panic. so Well, there's that, but sometimes they can be out in the women's space too, right? Because they're more heavily used there than, say, in the underutilized men's spaces, right? So it's just like, there's practicalities to this and that...
00:08:23
Speaker
Even an adult has a much easier time accessing and, you know, making things happen when somebody is emotionally maybe not has the wherewithal to to do that at that moment, right? So it's just, there's so much to it. And yeah, that's such a great story.
00:08:41
Speaker
And I'm glad he was able to be there for his daughter. Yeah, me too. um You've mentioned before, not on the podcast, but in in a conversation that we've had about how um some organizations are they're starting to provide these menstrual products and in some cases they are starting to become legally required. And i think lots of people within organizations can be pretty excited about inclusivity and wanting to kind of extend that. um But there are a lot of things to consider as well. And ah before I get to those considerations, I kind of want to ask you about what providing access can look like, given that there are so many different types of washrooms and
00:09:25
Speaker
approaches and there is no sort of one size fits all. Yeah. So there's different types of washrooms in various organizations. It it can, there's, you know, it varies.
00:09:37
Speaker
So some just have men's and women's multi-stall spaces or washrooms or change rooms. Others might have a single unit washroom. Others might have all gender multi stall, right? So it's like all these different configurations that need to be considered. And it's not quite a ah blanket approach to to all of them, right? I think each one needs to be treated kind of unto its own and may have modifications involved.
00:10:03
Speaker
the most The easiest one is women's washrooms just because it's already built in. People expect to see it there or that those products there. There's already a process of dispensing and disposing and there's a flow, there's a culture, cetera, right? So you're right the no-brainer, continue as usual.
00:10:24
Speaker
You have the single unit washrooms, which those are their fully self-contained washroom, toilet, as sink. And that's where perhaps there's a slightly different way of doing it. Maybe it's a dispensing unit, right, that you can access for free. Or maybe you put it in a bin and then label it. There's a few different ways of going about it, but it's just making sure that it's easy to notice and know kind of harm yeah how to access. So that's one other thing. So also still pretty simple, even, but maybe slightly different from what's happening in the women's spaces.
00:11:04
Speaker
Then you have the, um and I would say similarly with all gender multi-stall, there, because it's like a shared space, especially in the sink area, I would figure try to figure out private ways to access those so that you're not kind of putting a spotlight effect.
00:11:22
Speaker
I think people are used to grabbing for things in a shared setting in the women's. But in an all gender space, it might be m more or less difficult for some people, even for cisgender women in the presence of cisgender men to grab for those types of products. So yeah I think that's another one where you want to think it through. Maybe it's in there, but maybe there's a more private, semi-private area that you can put it in or another location altogether. And we can talk about that a little bit later on.
00:11:51
Speaker
So the the last one is men's spaces or washrooms and change rooms. And the automatic go-to of all the organizations that we've seen is that they pretty much copy and paste from what's in the women's, right? They'll put it in a bin or there's a dispensing unit. And um somehow the dispensing unit makes it more accessible permanent in a way that really provokes anger. And also, yeah, I would say so. Why? Rather than a bin. Well, if you think about other, there's not like there have been dispensing units in men's spaces, but they have been other varieties of things that are dispensed.
00:12:40
Speaker
Right. Probably not in a workplace, but there are dispensing of condoms, right? As an example. Right. other things I'm trying to think of right now. ah ah the Don't ring a bell, but that's the one product that I can remember. And so it's almost this in probably, I'm just trying to imagine, so I don't know this, you know, actually, is this kind of like swap of like, okay, we're not providing condoms, but we're providing menstrual products. So from something that's highly relevant to them to something that is not relevant to them or even possibly threatening. And so it's like, It's just, yeah, and it's just not feeling like one belongs in a sense of like things are not oriented towards me anymore. And i think that can be destabilizing um in a broader context of feeling destabilized, right? What's my role in society? And like, I don't want to get too deep into the psychology because I'm guessing and I don't want to like yeah go beyond what is my scope. um Yeah. But yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
you know I've read and listened, and so I do have some context for for sharing, but I always want
Challenges for Trans Men in Accessing Products
00:13:50
Speaker
to you know make it very contextualized. All that to say, dispensing units, if they're like bolted to the wall and they're like those metal units that you get things out of, as opposed to putting something in a bin that's a little bit more temporary feeling, you know even if it's around for most of the time, it does have a quality difference to it. One of the things that might surprise people is that a lot of trans guys and and ah non-binary people might not like those approaches very much. I think a lot of the time people are like, well, this is great for for trans people um and it is great for trans people, but there's a little bit more to think about when it comes to supporting trans people for what they actually need and want when it comes to accessing these products. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The intention is certainly a good one, right? want to provide access, let's put it in the men's and then we're done.
00:14:42
Speaker
When in reality, i mean, I'll talk from my own personal experience, not that I've ever reached for menstrual products in men's spaces, but um if I were to, ah ah that's not the place I would want to go to get those, right? 100%, yeah. Yeah.
00:15:00
Speaker
especially since most of the dispensing is done out in a shared space, so usually it's near the sink, right? And especially in a smaller washroom, if I'm grabbing for a menstrual product and then heading into the stall, like that's too visible. That could essentially out me if people are paying attention. Sometimes they're just baffled. They're like, why did that guy just reach for that menstrual body? That's weird. you know Sometimes it's as basic as that. Other times they're like, oh, okay, it's a trans guy. And then, you know, we're in a confined space where...
00:15:36
Speaker
I don't know my level of safety and that can be very concerning and disconcerting for folks in ways that are just a non-starter. I would say for many, if not most mind of trans men and non-binary folks, it's just like, nope, I'll...
00:15:51
Speaker
you know, figure out some other way or make sure somebody will just make sure they have a supply, right? Rather than having to tap into. But then again, it doesn't solve the socioeconomic problem it's trying to address by providing these materials or products.
00:16:07
Speaker
So yeah, men's spaces, even if people use them, might not be the best place to provide those or at the very least, they're not the only location those should be provided.
00:16:19
Speaker
who And I have seen ah options available, which would be to um go to the front desk to access the products from there. And yeah I actually didn't consider you We were planning this um last week and you mentioned something which I had really not considered, which is about that sort of. um the approach that maybe some people on the front desk might have if a guy came up to ask for just some some menstrual products. i really hadn't considered that and I was wondering if you'd go into that too. Yeah.
00:16:52
Speaker
So access points beyond washrooms are important to consider. So I i appreciate why organizations have gone to front desk because that's often where people go to ask questions and ask for things and if something's lost, or you know, so there's a context for going to the front desk.
00:17:11
Speaker
But then you also have to consider what societal expectations a front desk staff member might have about who should access these or be asking for these. So if somebody feminine walks up, no problem. They're like, yeah, of course, here you go. Right. um If somebody more masculine appears, suddenly it's like, why are you asking for these, you know? that There might be a scenario like your friend who's asking for somebody else, um but there's not a context in which people might understand that somebody could, a masculine and appearing person could be asking about it for themselves. And so, and so that puts somebody in a difficult spot of like having to either out themselves or come up with some fake story And it's just more work. And that gatekeeping is, you know, even if it's not intended as gatekeeping, just produces even more kind of things in people's roads that they just don't need that extra labor. right So it's already difficult enough because for some, yeah this is having a period, um you know, not for everybody, but for some trans and non-binary folks, this is a very dysphoric experience. and so
00:18:27
Speaker
that they would, in addition to having this very distressing experience, then to also have to be gatekept or have to reach for something in front of other um men.
00:18:41
Speaker
Like, it just it just adds way more to the equation. And it just... I don't know how to convey how difficult that is. It's like hugely emotionally taxing. And one where it's easy for trans and non-binary folks to choose isolation because then you'll have to deal with all of this. And so there's so many like complex decisions that trans people are navigating. And if they're too much, then people resort to not coming.
00:19:09
Speaker
And so if those things can be removed or improved, then that at least gets it better to where people can want to participate at the very least. Yeah. um On that, is it all right with you if if you kind of further explain what gender dysphoria is then? And you've you've described this sort of distress, but I think that's maybe a new concept for lot of people.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So gender dysphoria is the experience of distress or discomfort, extreme discomfort, with one's body and or social roles based on gender um that don't match one's gender identity.
00:19:51
Speaker
And so... There are so many different aspects to it. um And then I know we're specifically talking about menstruation, but for some, even many trans and non-binary folks female assigned at birth, the the the fact that one menstruates Even, yeah, I don't know how deep to go into this. There's there's a lot of layers. yeah But the fact that when menstruates can be very distressing. um Some people through hormone therapy can produce or completely eliminate menstruation. There's obviously surgeries as well. But um sometimes even if one takes hormones, the menstruation can suddenly come back, which can be very distressing because it's unexpected. And so it's just, there's a lot of challenge related to it for some.
00:20:46
Speaker
For some it's okay. And it's just normal part of their bodily function and they go about it in a matter of fact way. But for some, It can be a lot. And like I said, either they're coming and having to navigate all this additional challenge related to menstruation because society doesn't expect men to menstruate or they choose to isolate because it's too much to manage.
00:21:11
Speaker
So when people are experiencing this sort of extreme ah discomfort around menstruation, they're experiencing this gender dysphoria to then be faced with like having to go into the men's washroom and get their products dispensed in front of everybody, it's already uncomfortable even when they're on their own. So to then add the sort of feeling of like, now everybody knows or everybody's watching me, even if that's not true, it's just, I think everybody can like understand that to some extent of feeling like discomfort about something and then feeling as though you're now spotlit with with that thing that you're you're uncomfortable with. But then taking that to a whole other level with dysphoria, it's like it can be um so debilitating for so many people.
00:21:56
Speaker
Oh, for sure. And to another extent, whether internally spoken to oneself or externally by somebody, another man, it could be a way to question somebody's manhood, right? A trans person's manhood, right? It's like, you're not really a man because you menstruate, you know, like, people make those um kind of bio...
00:22:19
Speaker
There's biological equival equivalencies that really harm and make it difficult to just be one's gender, right? so um So yeah, making that really visible is for some okay, for others, maybe they would try it, but for others, just a non-starter.
00:22:37
Speaker
So there are also other things to consider. um You've mentioned to me before about how organizations have um considered dispensing the products, but then they haven't really thought about what will then happen and how people are meant to sort of dispose of those products or, or um yeah, deal with them in that way. And I was wondering kind of what you've seen with that and what options are available.
00:22:59
Speaker
I mean, that presumably men's. Right. Shocker. Yeah. But that's the thing. I mean, people don't realize that there are concrete differences between men's and women's washrooms. Sure, they might be kind of mirror images of them, of each other, maybe structurally, but not everything is um available, especially men's. Men's are a bit more stripped down versions of women's spaces.
00:23:27
Speaker
Again, i don't know why that is. i can have my theories, but that makes things very complicated. um from a so we've So say somebody has the product, has used it, and there are byproducts, and now what do you do with that, right? and For example, in women's spaces, there are bins that people can throw those items in in within the stall, right? So it's very private disposal of those products, which even in a women's space, you don't want to be parading outside in shared spaces, like, you know, daintily dropping it into the the shared bin, right? Like, so there's a reason why they've been put in the stalls, and the small little bins or the little like...
00:24:13
Speaker
ones that you can open on the side of the the stall unit. But those are absent, completely absent in men's spaces. And I would say that that is an oversight, not just in this instance with menstrual products, but there's a whole bunch of private things that I imagine men want to dispose of, you know, cisgender men. So I'm kind of baffled that it's not already available, but it isn't. And so then when somebody has a product,
00:24:44
Speaker
they've used it, they have byproduct, what are they supposed to do with that? And that's when they're having to bring that out into the shared space and dispose of it. So it's not just in the like grabbing of it. It's also in the coming out. And, you know, just,
00:24:59
Speaker
people noticing and either figuring it out or being bewildered in some way, right? Or having to be like really awkward about hiding what one is disposing of, um which can create its own dynamics of like, what are you hiding? So it's just generally bizarre. It's not a great experience. So the bins in the stalls are really important. Right.
00:25:27
Speaker
I just had like a real flashback of being a teenager and needing to needing to get a tampon for my friend and being so horrified in the classroom and hiding it up my sleeve to go totally yeah why is it so embarrassing i was like mortified by like well i'm obnoxious about it now as i think you probably know i look like overshared to that traffic controlling everyone will know i will make damn clear yeah yeah but like yeah when i was a teenager i um yeah i would hide them up my sleeves and like try not to rustle and make any noise or whatever so strange um So that's another thing. oh my gosh. I mean, some of these are buried memories for me. But the rustling with these products, ah let me tell you, okay it's like extra crinkly for some reason. And so like, and it's always when the the washroom is so
Humor and Embarrassment in Product Access
00:26:25
Speaker
quiet. You know, what like people could be using hand dryers, coughing, and then suddenly the minute a sandwich hotel comes out, like and everyone's deathly quiet. and And not only that, there's a queue and everybody's in there. Like the entire, the entire mall is in there. The whole school has come to the mushroom. Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
uh yes those are my experiences too dang that's so true i forgot about the volume like the the audio element to this it is it's a real thing and nobody else is making those types of sounds in men's spaces let me tell you so well i told you this when we were planning it but there was a story of a friend of mine who's a trans guy um was theref i don't know if the friend of mine was just telling me a story of someone else actually so Somebody somebody that I know told me this story of a trans guy in a in a men's washroom um trying to get access to his menstrual products and it was rustling around and the guy in the next door was like, this is you're having a hard time if you're having to bring snacks with you.
00:27:32
Speaker
ah but Opening a bag of crisps. Yeah. That's what I think they thought was going on in there. But yeah, the sound is, um I mean, now again, I'm obnoxious about it, but like yeah at the time when I was a younger, yeah, horrifying.
00:27:48
Speaker
And I can see how that would be like really um tough for trans guy in an environment like that where you're just like, oh, it's already tense. So yeah yeah. Campaign to make silent, silent products, please. Silent products, soundproof rooms, you know, or stalls, a whole number of things where it's just like, or like add nice audio to the washrooms, you know? Yeah.
Improving Access and Cultural Considerations
00:28:12
Speaker
little background noise, you know? I think the funny thing about the survey we did um with one of the universities, we had 3,000 respondents, so it's robust data here. And ah a big thing was sound. And people were like, please, we need to cover up our biological functioning here, especially, I'm sure, one form that everyone can recognize. And so, yeah, I was like, that's smart. And that would help with the the crinkle bags. Yeah.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah. With menstrual products. So um what's the answer then? yeah When it comes to dealing with this.
00:28:53
Speaker
How do we provide access? Yeah. In a way that's like nice for trans people. Right. Or as nice as possible. Right. And safe, too. Yeah, I mean, there's there's a few things to consider. um so I think, you know, it is context specific. You know, we're talking a range of different places, recreation centers, schools, ah you know, hockey rinks and sports.
00:29:19
Speaker
you name it, right? there's There's different office settings, right? So there's each space has its own set of considerations. the The thing is that, you know, providing them within the washrooms is one place, um but then thinking alternative places as well. So one example, and then say at a university setting is that you know the the menstrual products could be um shared within like a health clinic, right you know where they're already going for certain things. And in addition, now you see and have you know availability of these menstrual products as an example. We talked about the front desk within a recreation setting, you know, within an office setting, there might be like a little quiet area where you can put a few different kind of personal items. I wouldn't have that be the only thing. i would just kind of make it a personal space, you know, so people are going to that space for different reasons. So that kind of masks or covers up the
00:30:19
Speaker
or privatizes what somebody might be going there for, Right, for um yeah. You know, there's all kinds of things that could improve the mental, physical health of employees. And the important thing being it's a quieter space kind of off of main high traffic areas where people can go and access them. And it's maybe not abundantly clear what they're going for if there's a few different bowls somewhere.
00:30:43
Speaker
as an example so there's that and then i think it's also looking at the culture of the place to better understand how men cisgender men might react to menstrual products in men's spaces so in certain settings no big deal whatever you know if it's not relevant to me i'm just passing over and not spending a lot of time on it Versus in other spaces, people losing their lovely minds. Sweet, sweet minds. you know And I don't want to like pick out any one or the other because I think those are present in many different industries. So we kind of can't pigeonhole this onto any one sector.
00:31:29
Speaker
But I think it's being honest about the culture of a place and the readiness of cis men to receive that type of men or see that type of menstrual product.
00:31:41
Speaker
Now, there are ways to anticipate it where we have done surveys not specific to menstrual products, but we've included menstrual questions about menstrual products to kind of get a temperature read before doing something. So you can see if people are losing their minds or NBD deal.
00:31:57
Speaker
So yeah. Where along the spectrum are you at? it's Just so that there's no unpleasant surprises. Because unfortunately, if people if organizations just test it out, then the cost is borne by the trans and non-binary folks who are either witnessing, hearing, or whatever, right? We don't want that to be the case. um And probably catching organizations off guard. So I think it's it's worth a beat to explore that from a cultural perspective.
00:32:28
Speaker
You mentioned the cost of um cost of this being born by trans people. and i i was hoping Would you mind going into what that actually looks like and what that means? that The idea that um the sort of blame is put on the trans people as opposed to just it being a thing that exists. Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
So it could come in all different varieties of pushback or backlash on trans people. It can be more mild, like jokes or comments or like, oh, look at us, you know, being woke or something. Like that's not really mild. That's also problematic. But um and then to all the way to the more extreme side of the vandalism piece, like observing a vandalized set of products that I need access to, that's distressing.
00:33:19
Speaker
um It shows that there's, because it takes somebody some sort of activation energy to vandalize something. And so um that can show there's kind of a violent undercurrent that could be redirected onto a person, right? Even if it doesn't, that even the threat of that can be very destable or unsettling. Absolutely, yeah.
00:33:44
Speaker
And then there's also a piece of if trans people aren't out at work as being trans, and then people talking amongst themselves about the menstrual products, not knowing that there's a trans person in their midst.
Transfocus and Organizational Support
00:33:59
Speaker
We've actually heard a few stories of that. And then people get to hear the inner monologue of this is ridiculous. There's no such thing as men who menstruate. these people are mentally ill. Like it goes on and on. Like I don't need to repeat everything, but it gives you a flavor of just the kinds of very, yeah, very hostile commentary that people um feel free to talk about. um Mainly because they think they're only talking to cis people, but there's a trans person there. And then that person will never come out. Just like lock and seal that door. Or maybe they even leave because this is not a place they want to be.
00:34:39
Speaker
So ah what kind of work does Transfocus do when it comes to this? Ah, yes. So we can definitely help out organizations with this type of work. It's usually part of a larger scope around washrooms and change rooms, but certainly figuring out where to put menstrual products, especially we look at layouts of floor plans or do site visits that really help us to zero in on exactly the the good places.
00:35:06
Speaker
We also help with communications around this because we find if people are set up well to be like, OK, I understand what this is about, so I'm not going to freak out if I see it. You know, before they're put in the places that can often kind of smooth things over, make things easier. of course, we can do surveys and all kinds of other stuff. So, um you know, whether it's before, during or after, we're we're there to support folks in this process. whether it's around just menstrual products or ah a wider scope of washrooms and change rooms. So we've created a resource just because this has come up and kind of a few different, maybe not a few, a lot. um People wondering what to do and how to consider things and what are the issues, some of what we've covered here today. And so we've put that in a resource with a checklist to help you
00:35:58
Speaker
kind of think that through and within your organization. Even if you're not going to engage trans focus, it allows you to be a bit more thoughtful, intentional about this without creating additional harm for trans and non-binary folks. And yeah, we we hope it's a super helpful resource for your journey of inclusion on this topic.
00:36:19
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Kai. Yeah, thank you. See you next week. Yeah, bye for now.