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The Problem With Trans People's Old Photos Nobody Talks About
30 Plays17 days ago
Photos are supposed to preserve memories.
But what happens when a photo captures a time in your life that feels complicated to look back on?
For many trans and non-binary people, photos from before coming out or transitioning can bring up a wide range of reactions. Some people find them painful or uncomfortable. Some keep them private. Others find them funny, nostalgic, or even enjoy sharing before-and-after photos.
In this episode of Gender in Focus, El and Kai explore the often-overlooked topic of old photos of trans people and why there is no single “right” way for trans and non-binary people to feel about them.
What should you do if you accidentally find a photo of someone from before they transitioned? Should you mention it? Ignore it? Ask about it? El and Kai unpack these questions while exploring why trans and non-binary people can have very different relationships with old photos, ranging from discomfort and privacy to humour, nostalgia, and celebration.
They also discuss how social media features like Facebook Memories can unexpectedly bring past images back into view, why asking to see photos from before someone’s transition may not be as harmless as it seems, and how friends, family members, partners, coworkers, and workplaces can navigate old photos with more thoughtfulness and care.
Whether you’re a trans person reflecting on your own relationship with photos from before transition or someone who wants to better support the trans and non-binary people in your life, this episode offers practical insights into a topic that many people have never stopped to consider.
In this episode:
- Why trans and non-binary people can have very different reactions to old photos
- Photos from before transition and coming out
- What to do if you find an old photo of a trans or non-binary person
- Facebook Memories, social media, and unexpected reminders of the past
- Before-and-after photos and transition journeys
- Comments and “compliments” that can miss the mark
- Family photo albums, photos on display, and shared memories
- Workplace photos, staff directories, websites, and ID badges
- How to navigate old photos without making assumptions
Gender in Focus is a podcast from TransFocus Consulting exploring gender, allyship, inclusion, and the everyday experiences of trans and non-binary people.
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Transcript
Opening and Topic Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Gender in Focus. I'm Elle. I'm here with Kai Scott, as always. Hello, how you? doing well. How about yourself? I'm doing so well. Although, is it rainy where you are? I can't see in the background. oh yeah.
00:00:19
Speaker
It's like, did i in i in Vancouver? Right. It's giving UK. Love that. It's giving, yeah, a rainy day in London, which I'm here for. But it's so dark. So I'm not loving that because I could do with some sunshine, but.
00:00:36
Speaker
all good.
Emotional Impact of Past Photos on Trans People
00:00:37
Speaker
right um Today we are talking about photos. There are so many things to consider when we're talking about trans and non-binary inclusion or the things that trans people face in the world that can feel really big and really heavy and I think it's probably quite easy to forget about the more everyday stuff and I think photos can be a really big part of that for some people um but for trans people in particular if we're looking at past photos, then this can be really difficult to manage. And so I was wondering if I could start, Kai, with um just going into that a little bit, like when somebody comes out as trans or non-binary, what is it about photos in particular from before transitioning that becomes something that people just, people around them or the trans people themselves just need to think about differently?
00:01:23
Speaker
oh Yeah, it's ah yeah such a good introduction to this often overlooked or maybe not even known about issue, obviously known among trans and non-binary folks because we're living it. But for those who are around them, it may not register as a thing. And what do we mean by this issue? Well, I'm For some trans and non-binary folks, they change their appearance, either in small or big ways. If they take undertake gender-affirming care, they may have some sort forms of surgery, or hormones can also really change the composition of one's body, how fat is distributed, even in the face, um if we're just looking at the face, but also other aspects of one's bodies. And so
00:02:14
Speaker
you know, a flat chest or a curved chest, right? Things like that that are apparent in the everyday. And that can really impact how people show up in photos. And if somebody is further along in their... um they're being trans or visibly trans out as trans that ah can play a bit of a tricky role in how they approach photos, especially of them in the past.
Varied Reactions to Old Photos
00:02:44
Speaker
Everybody has their, their thing, whether it's something, you know, that might be a little bit interesting or if it's something they totally avoid uh,
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, it really depends on the individual, but there is a little bit of extra, i wouldn't say work, but it um is in people's experiences and is an active part of either if they're considering past photos or if they're, you know, showing them to other, you know, depends. But yeah, that's some of the dynamic at play with photos. Mm-hmm.
00:03:22
Speaker
What are the different reactions that trans or non-binary people might have or like the ways that they might feel when they see past photos of themselves, given that there is all of this context that you've just explained?
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah. So the range, can it's quite a range actually, from folks who are either extremely or somewhat uncomfortable or even distressed by seeing past photos. And sometimes people think of that as a bit odd, but especially if the change in appearance has been quite drastic, then to see some but someone's past image or one's own past image, it can be kind of um disconcerting and even maybe confusing or just like there's no connecting to it because one and wasn't living as one's full self at that time.
Communication and Assumptions About Past Photos
00:04:16
Speaker
And it's a very painful reminder to see that for some folks.
00:04:21
Speaker
It could be maybe not uncomfortable, but bit more private for some folks if we think of this reaction spectrum that we're talking about. So and maybe a little bit more safeguarding who sees past photos and for what reasons and why and, you know, all all that. So they're a little bit more cautious.
00:04:40
Speaker
um Some people are amused and, you know, ah like to show their past photo to others. Maybe not everyone, but maybe you don't. ah Some people put it on social media, right? So um they can be quite visible with that information. um a very favorite favorite thing is doing it before and after so people can see the contrast, right? Mm-hmm.
Digital Photos and Unexpected Impacts
00:05:06
Speaker
And that can be amusing to some people, to some trans and non-binary folks, for people to react to that contrast ah between the two images. There can be people who are excited about it right? They kind of celebrate before, but they also celebrate after and aren't... um uncomfortable by that difference um and are you know accepting ah of both versions of themselves and or the range of of different appearances over time. And so, yeah, just to give you a sense of, as the listener, that there is a range. There isn't just one single trans and non-binary response to seeing a past image. And I think that's really important to keep in mind. And if you are with somebody to understand where they might fall along that spectrum.
00:05:56
Speaker
Going on from what you just said about how people, some people have um different reactions to seeing those photos and that it's not just one reaction for all trans people. I kind of wanted you to go into how important it is to not make those assumptions. um That like every trans person wants every single photo hidden or deleted or simultaneously every single trans person is delighted to see before and after photos of themselves. Like I wanna talk about assumptions.
00:06:24
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so I think people ah kind of go into in one frame of mind or another if they're encountering a trans or non-binary person who might have photos that they have access to or could possibly see. And so they're either treating it one of of different ways. They're kind of preempting something, a stance on it. either thinking it's going to be extremely private and, you know, this person will be really upset by seeing a past photo versus thinking that they should be really um excited about past photos or accepting that people want to continue to display them or interact with them or reference them, right? It's usually...
00:07:16
Speaker
There can be people at those extremes, but it's not everyone. And I think the better posture to have is to allow, to understand where that person's coming from in terms of how they want past photos handled. And it can often be this, like, rather than making assumptions about one way or another, is to have a conversation that can be really beautiful and interesting and a way to connect rather than to ah disconnect over misunderstanding um or assumption that might not be correct for that person. And you can have a conversation with you know thoughtful questions like, how would you like past, how would, do you interact or would you like to interact with past photos of yourself? here's how I feel about past photos of myself, right? Because sometimes we think this is the exclusive domain of trans and non-binary folks, but you know plenty of non-trans folks you know don't maybe aren't as comfortable with past images of themselves as well, right?
Handling Past Photos by Family and Friends
00:08:21
Speaker
And so getting into a conversation on equal footing then opens up that understanding between the two of you, and you can then figure out a way forward.
00:08:33
Speaker
who I wanted to ask you about different ways that these that photos show up and one that I find quite, ah in fact, we've had a conversation about how difficult this can be is um digital platforms and the way that that can complicate things. So for example, Facebook memories or on this day, like when we see those and i wanted you to go into that if you could.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, so you're right that there's kind of two different formats in which this can come up. Physical photos are one of those, and that's kind of what we've been talking about. But certainly digital photos are...
00:09:12
Speaker
way more prolific, really. i mean, very few people print off photos anymore, although maybe maybe it's just me. They're ever present online, right? If you think about Instagram, Facebook, um LinkedIn, on and on, right?
Workplace Management of Photos and IDs
00:09:32
Speaker
That And I would say especially Facebook has this um feature that maybe others have seen it and encountered it, but this like Facebook memories is a bit bananas for trans and non-binary folks.
00:09:49
Speaker
Because madam you show past images just at random, right? From years ago, right? So I'll get served up.
00:10:00
Speaker
you know, stuff before transition, you know, I don't know, 13 years ago. And I'm like, oh, wow. I haven't, you know, thought about, looked at this ah image of me in eons. And I look very different from what I did before. And it shows and parts of my journey that were really painful in terms of me trying to figure out where to locate how I appear to others. And I went through some bumpy stuff to get there, right? Like I have very feminine presenting ah photos out there of me. And sure, i could go through my Facebook photos and archive or delete all of that. But that's...
00:10:45
Speaker
it's a huge effort, right? Yeah. If you think about how many years people have been on Facebook. um So yeah, it just presents a a huge challenge. And I'm sure if I could do some research, maybe I could turn off the Facebook memories thing, right? So there's ways to handle it, but it just give, it illustrates the issue,
Sensitive Photo Handling and Communication
00:11:04
Speaker
right. Of seeing past photos and, and usually suddenly without, know,
00:11:10
Speaker
um being prepared right and then it it can be disconcerting it can really like I again have been around somebody who in front of me had this happen it sort of popped up on their Facebook and it was it totally knocked their day like it just sort of not in a big way but just it just sort of knocked it out of place a little bit and it you could feel that they were off for the whole day and and it's just it can be really jarring and in fact um they asked me to go through because I knew them from before they transitioned they didn't want to
00:11:47
Speaker
do it themselves but they asked me to go through all of their photos and and do exactly what you just said delete and archive them and there are so many I don't think we really think about like overly like because people use like Facebook for years and years and years and years there were photos from high school and you know even before that and going through and other people tagging you in photos of yourself that you didn't upload and going through all of that and and this there was like
Avoiding Insensitive Comments
00:12:12
Speaker
There were hundreds or hundreds and hundreds of photos and it's so much work. And if you're already feeling sensitive about it, being confronted with hundreds of photos of yourself, if you are going to go through and delete and archive them, it's horrible. It's a horrible thing to to have to deal with.
00:12:26
Speaker
And um yeah, God, I wish that didn't exist. I wish that existed. Facebook memories thing didn't exist and it's so true you were saying about how it's not just trans people that handle this again have been in situations where I've seen photos of um you know friends that have passed away or something that just pop up and it's suddenly very shocking you know and for the most part for most people on an everyday basis probably isn't going to have something too much but like for those really sensitive things it would be really nice to not have that
00:12:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And without any frame of reference, like they're pulling Facebook is pulling these at random. And we don't need to kind of pile on to this feature, but just, yeah, or like problem solve it here, do a strategy session on how to improve it. But yeah, it's just, yeah, it it does. it's ah It's kind of offbeat. And yeah.
00:13:19
Speaker
maybe in some instances create some like, oh yeah, remember back in that day, but not for everyone. No, for sure. What is um the best way? and Okay.
00:13:32
Speaker
I realize there probably isn't the best way to handle this, but if somebody comes across an old photo of a trans non-binary person before they transitioned um by accident, what would you say is the ideal way to respond?
00:13:45
Speaker
and is given that you might not know how they're feeling about it yeah this is a really important question because it can happen right i mean sometimes people go back you know they they'll get to know somebody and they'll connect on facebook or instagram and they'll they'll likely go back right and kind of see the evolution of this person and encounter these photos even if they know somebody is trans it's, you know, information about them that maybe they weren't ready or hadn't thought about sharing just
Respectful Interactions and Reflections
00:14:18
Speaker
yet. And in that instance, if it's accidental and, you know, you haven't kind of got a sense of where they're at is definitely not to mention it. Like it's just, I kind of jokingly say, you know, ah activate the men in black ah memory erase. Yeah.
00:14:38
Speaker
just not have it there, right? ah I think why that's so important is because we're a very visual society um and we our brains can often anchor into the visuals and seeing somebody's past image can sometimes, for some people, influence how they use pronouns, right?
00:15:02
Speaker
And so it's not to say it's a bad thing, like, of course, Photos are everywhere and it's not somebody's fault or they're not bad or anything like that. It's more just noticing if it's starting to impact things. Because i have had people look at past images of me and then start to use she, her pronouns for me. like It's bananas, right? Images are very powerful. And so that's where if you like you need to work with it, obviously things come up and whatnot. but Yeah.
00:15:39
Speaker
it's it's important not to reference and be like, I saw a past image of you. I couldn't believe how you know much of a difference it is and go on and on because you don't know where that person's at. And then also notice how it impacts you as well in terms of how you refer to or see that person going forward. Oh my gosh, that's so wild. And I can imagine that though, that having sort of an image in your head will conjure like a whole different way of how you're seeing somebody. Yeah, yeah.
00:16:10
Speaker
Oh, that sucks. I'm sorry. Thank you. um How would that extend if you're seeing it in person? Because you're talking about Facebook or, you know, social media, whatever. But if you are, I don't know, walking into someone's family home and they have an an old photo on the wall right of somebody and you're with the trans person right now and there's a very obvious uncomfortable situation occurring, how would somebody handle that?
Concluding Thoughts on Photo Sensitivity
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think there too, it's one thing if the person is showing, the trans person is showing it to you. That's very different reality than from if you're kind of passing by it and catch a glimpse of it or even another family member is wanting to highlight it. And you can see and perhaps that the trans person is uncomfortable, right? Yeah.
00:17:02
Speaker
And in that case, it is important not to point it out, right? To be like, holy crap, is that you? You know, and want to go on about that. ah Although I will say... that's no funny it I mean, it is and it isn't, right? It's like... just Just because I can see that happening. Oh, totally. Well, this is the thing. people It catches people off guard and then they are kind of in an autopilot where they just react. right Whatever they think comes immediately out. um
00:17:35
Speaker
And I don't... Again, it's not a bad thing. People are bad for it, right? Yeah. But as much as you can kind of slow down that immediate impulse so much the better, because you either don't know where that person, the trans person's at, or perhaps you know that they don't, they're deeply uncomfortable with past images. And it's actually better to handle more on the conservative side, little Z conservative of like not making a big moment of it. Right.
00:18:04
Speaker
Especially in front of other people. like um Right. Right. And if it's something important, then the trans person will make the effort to point that out, right, to you. If they're not making that effort, you can just kind of waltz on back by and, you know, not make a big moment of it and also not pay so much attention to it. You know, study the image and absorb all of its details. It's like...
00:18:28
Speaker
It's an artifact of the past and it can be left in the past as well. Right. So these are just some of the tips. And then, of course, if the trans person wants to talk about it, obviously you can you know listen and be a part of that conversation. um But it's really taking the clue or the cues from the trans person. Now, I will say that not all images people might not recognize. So I have one past image of myself in my own place, and most people don't recognize me in it at all because of the great difference in appearance. um And so it's not anything. Now, I do point it out, and i have a little bit. that I enjoy doing of where it's my sister's wedding and I'm in a dress and I point it out and I say, look, my sister forced me to dress in drag. you know She doesn't like that bit. She loves that. She hates it because she's like, I did force you. But I was like, you know what? You got to give me the simple joys that I can get from being trans because there's a lot that isn't so fun. so yeah.
00:19:46
Speaker
That's great. um Actually, I really want to go into that a little bit more about what um what changes when a trans or non-binary person chooses to show you an image of yourself, because then you don't need to tiptoe around it quite so much if that's how you're feeling. It's a different thing. It's a different perspective. And the same you mentioned as well with some people who are sharing online the before and after photos. Like some people don't feel so heavily about past images.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah. And in that case, it's again about kind of matching with their vibe, right? So if they're having a good chuckle, it's okay to laugh, right? I think people are a bit hesitant to be like, holy crap, this, you know, for some is upsetting, but for this person, they're kind of nonchalant about it. And so if somebody didn't laugh at my joke, I feel kind of sad about it. Yeah.
00:20:35
Speaker
ah with my bit, right? So it's okay to laugh. Obviously, if it's not funny to you, you don't have to laugh. but um And in which case, I think it's just meeting people where they're at, or they're kind of like a little bit giddy or excited about sharing, like, look how much I've changed to be like, holy crap, that's really exciting. I'm excited for you, right? So there's ways that we can be with that person in either, you know, being silly or, or enjoying that moment too, right? We don't have to be kind of walking on eggshells or treat, like treating these people with, you know, kid gloves, like right? we can be with them.
00:21:17
Speaker
So yeah, those are just some some of the considerations around that. um But it does require being attuned. And I think sometimes people are not as familiar with being attuned to trans and non-binary folks to see where they're at along that spectrum. Because then a you if you're not attuned, you can't align, right?
00:21:40
Speaker
But if you're attuned, it does make a huge difference. sometimes cis people might specifically ask to see photos from before someone came out but and i was wondering if you could talk about that and like how that can well yeah what's involved yeah what's happening here yeah so especially if you don't know where somebody falls along that response spectrum, it's really important not to ask. and
00:22:12
Speaker
I think there's an opportunity so for self-reflection of like, why do I want to know or why do want to see this past image? um do i Am I counting for how somebody might respond? And they could be distressed by sharing or having to be be asked to share um and put in this bit of a pickle of like do i share do i not this emotional labor and thinking that through and really not much is gained from seeing somebody's past image like sure there's a contrast and you know sometimes people want to share that contrast and it's exciting to them and we could say wow Um, but I, I feel like people think that they'll get some sort of clarity out of it. um
00:23:00
Speaker
that is likely not there in the image. It's more in the storytelling where perhaps, you know, clarification, if somebody wants to tell their story, uh, could be gained, but not in the image. I think people think something will be resolved in all of that. Um, and it's not, and,
00:23:20
Speaker
Sometimes people think um they they have to perform being an ally um by you know looking at an image and going, wow. um and And especially there's common phrases of like um people will look at an image and be like, wow, you now you look so much like a man, as an example. Right. Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
The like is doing a lot of heavy lifting in here because unfortunately, even if it's meant as a compliment, it's experienced as you're not actually a man. You're only like a man, right? um By changing your image or whatnot. So, ah or they'll say things like, um say somebody has long hair. wow, you're you even though you have long hair, so they have to like caveat, through and you so you still look like a man, right? So there's all these weird things that can happen when images are shown
00:24:21
Speaker
that set us back ah from wanting to connect to deeper with trans and non-binary folks. So, yeah. So it's a little bit more complicated and I would steer people away from asking for images. If images are shown by the trans person, that's a different dynamic than if you, as a cis person, ask for them.
00:24:45
Speaker
I do yeah i I really want to go into that again like the comments that you should not say if you do see a photo because you just gave such a good example and I'm sure I'm sure so many trans people have experienced something like this where it's like oh you I would never have known i would never have known Oh my gosh, that's so painful.
00:25:10
Speaker
Or, whoa, you were so beautiful before. Or, you know, like making comments like that, which is sort of, i think, an attempt to be kind, but is actually like the complete opposite of kind. And so I was wondering if you could go into like that dynamic and what the what the compliments people give are saying. Yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They're trying to kind of wrestle with the images that either they're being shown or they've asked to be shown and stuff can come out and that perhaps they haven't fully thought of um or thought through and don't realize are actually...
00:25:49
Speaker
people don't enjoy that experience of receiving them, even if they're intended positively, which mostly they are. like People are really trying to say, i would never know, like why what's so problematic about that?
00:26:05
Speaker
It's this kind of with that comment, there's the underlying assumption that we ought to know um that this is, you know, about kind of appearances and and the differences between them and being able to tell and to figure it out and kind of crack this code. And, ah you know, trans people are codes.
00:26:26
Speaker
um We might do coding, but we're codes. I know. that Trans people are nerds. then you to Totally. So this is the really important thing and that it's not about kind of figuring something out um that somebody doesn't want to show or something like that. It's a very odd comment. It comes up a lot. I've heard this hundreds of times, hundreds.
00:26:55
Speaker
And it's very annoying and yeah not helpful. oh What was the other one? i can't remember the other one that you just did. Oh, ah there was a some that I've heard a lot for other people is, oh, you were so beautiful before. Or or even actually there's that one. And then there's also, wow, you look so beautiful now. Right. Which I can also imagine being pretty great. For the trans femme folk, they're like rolling, their eyes are rolling back. Right, right. Right.
00:27:25
Speaker
So I'll take that in two directions because beauty being at the center of it, but experienced by transmasculine versus trans femme folk very differently. So the trans femme folks get that when they're coming out and, you know, and coming into their own and, you know, people, they either share or what whatever somebody finds out and they're like but you're so beautiful for trans woman or, you know, trans feminine person. And it's like the underlying assumption is people were surprised that somebody, a trans woman could be beautiful. Number one, which there are plenty, obviously. yeah,
00:28:06
Speaker
That they have to be feminine to be accepted as the women that they already are and that we're even talking about somebody's looks to tie to their gender identity. Yeah, it is deeply problematic and one where they you know have to figure out how to respond without taking on all of this stuff that has been said in that statement. Yeah.
00:28:30
Speaker
The other way might be a little bit less visible of, ah wow, you used to be so beautiful. I got that um to the point where i actually had several people say that you can't possibly transition because you're too beautiful.
00:28:49
Speaker
And that tells you like how much we've intertwined that, you know, you have to be a particular way and you're not allowed to change. um And it it really messes with you when you kind of experience where you're just like trying to be, there are people trying to be positive, but it kind of goes sideways and, and really it's not relevant And also but people don't realize is it's deeply painful for many, including myself, to have tried and it didn't fit.
00:29:23
Speaker
And then people want you to stay there. That's really, really, really difficult to hear. And where people are trying to celebrate, but they're missing the point. The point is right in front of them and they can't see it. Right.
00:29:37
Speaker
her Yeah. oh I know, I know. Femininity, who knew? um i want to ask a little bit about how families and friends and partners and other people who have trans people in their lives you've talked about what they shouldn't be saying obviously but what about what they should be doing in terms of having photos if they've got old photos on display in their house or if they've got old photos of this person on their own facebook that they've you know they've uploaded like what how can people handle photos that are kind of displayed in shared spaces
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a great question and one that is good to bring up with the trans and non-binary person. Obviously, not the second they come out, right? To be like, what are your names, of name and pronouns and what do you want me to do with photos? you know like In fact, here's a list of things I'd like to think about.
00:30:45
Speaker
No, but this is something that um if somebody comes out to you can be a discussion point at some point where, you know, they've kind of figured out, settled in into and you know taking steps or or whatever they're doing to to be more fully themselves is to look back to them and say, hey,
00:31:05
Speaker
I mean, i have photos of you in my home and or i have photos of you on Facebook. um And, you know, we have a shared history. I am open to all different avenues of how to deal with this. Here are a few that I've thought of, right? You know, creating um a subfolder, you know, just for the two of us or, you know, whatever the case may be.
00:31:30
Speaker
Just to kind of like, brainstorm with the person. Perhaps they already have a clear sense of what they want to do and they're like, on my Instagram, I did X, Y, and z um I would like you to do the same. Or they would enjoy this co creative process of being like, oh yeah, that this option option A makes feels better for me than options B and C. And you know let's try it out for three months. you know and you know so you can kind of You know, be with that person in that and rather than what tends to happen is one, most people don't discuss it with trans and non-binary folks.
00:32:08
Speaker
um They just assume one way or another, either they take away all their photos or they leave them all up and haven't even thought about it. Or um they kind of get stuck in the past and be like, I want to keep the photos because I i was happy during that time and you know,
00:32:31
Speaker
I don't know about you, but you know this is about me. um But for for the dialogue to happen will surface that consideration and you can create something that both of you can feel good about, right?
00:32:49
Speaker
I kind of want to switch into work mode a second about how workplaces can handle things when this comes up and it likely will come up when it comes to things like photos, ID badges, um stuff, what's what's it called? Stuff directories, even like website, like having someone's bio on the website, things like that. Or like even um what else? Like event images.
00:33:11
Speaker
what ah How can workplaces handle that? Or what should workplaces be thinking about when when something like this comes up? Yes, this is really important, especially if somebody is wanting or going to undertake some aspect of changing their appearance, right?
00:33:29
Speaker
What kinds of clothing they wear, what if they're going to take gender affirming care of any sort. sort they will likely look different over time. It won't be immediate. like People aren't going to come in, leave on Friday, and then come in looking super different. Maybe clothing-wise, yes, but not body-wise.
00:33:52
Speaker
So this is where it's important for organizations to be ready. So if somebody comes out at work, there's a set of steps. We talk about this in other podcast episodes, so I won't go through all the steps, but some of them are related to ID badge. We have a whole checklist and IDs being one of them because or like you said, bio on the webpage, so many different places where images show up and to kind of do a scan of those, an inventory of where all this person's image comes up and then to plan with them like,
00:34:31
Speaker
and what would you like us to do? When would you like to change your ah photo if necessary? right We don't always assume that everybody's changing how they look right because some people don't change at all and that's perfectly valid. But for those who do, then you have to think about the timing. So for some, especially if they're taking if they're undergoing some form of gender affirming care, that typically tends to take about six months to a year, maybe longer for those to be visible um in ways that impact images. So it might not be immediately when somebody comes out, it might be a year down the road where you say, okay, now I would like my image updated. And it's important to have set up a process that doesn't require lots of hard hoop jumping and certainly not cost. Right.
00:35:23
Speaker
ah to do that. So just setting that up in a thoughtful way is very important. Another aspect is um human resources might request ID, government issued ID to determine citizenship or, you know, whatever else, in which case that ID might have a different looking image, right? So it might not be a coming out process. It might be this person is already out as trans, maybe even hasn't shared at work that they're trans. And now you're seeing a past image of them.
00:36:00
Speaker
Perhaps it takes a lot to update IDs and you might even see a past name, past gender marker, all these things. And so... This is where it's really important to have, you know, to one, be ready for that to to be the case and not to be surprised or not to claim fraud or, you know, whatever thing that people do.
00:36:22
Speaker
And really to to work with that individual to um yeah ah process them. So you might still have to document their legal name, but you use their chosen name in interactions and accept them for how they look now, even though you've seen a past image of them.
00:36:41
Speaker
What would you want cis people, families, friends, partners, workplaces to remember before they're commenting on anything, displaying anything, sharing anything when it comes to photos of trans and non-binary people?
00:36:54
Speaker
Just to end the episode. Yeah, I think it's just being a bit more thoughtful in that process rather than just kind of bull in China shop, you know, steam steam forward in one way or another. It's just an opportunity to check in, to see where somebody is at, to work with them, with the work with the trans or non-binary person, whether at work or the personal lives. Yeah.
00:37:19
Speaker
But I think also there's something to be said about connecting it to one's own experience. Perhaps there's images that you're not really comfortable if you're past, if you're a cisgender person that you don't want kind of widely known or distributed. And so just having that as an anchoring point will help you possibly understand what might be going on for a trans or non-binary person, especially if they're not feeling very comfortable or even a bit distressed with past images.
00:37:49
Speaker
it's not this kind of mystery as to why it's because sometimes we're just not comfortable with certain things being out there and working with each other to to help with that in whatever way that looks like so hopefully that just gives people an opportunity to to be better connected on this topic in particular Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai.
00:38:16
Speaker
Thank you, too. See you next week. Okay. Bye for now. Bye.