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Most Organizations Collect Gender Data for No Reason
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Why does your organization ask for gender on so many forms, surveys, and employee systems?
For many workplaces, the honest answer is surprisingly simple: “Because we’ve always done it that way.”
In this episode of Gender in Focus, Kai and El unpack the hidden assumptions, workplace risks, and ethical questions surrounding gender data collection. From human resources systems and onboarding forms to healthcare benefits and workplace engagement surveys, they explore what can go wrong when organizations collect gender information without a clear purpose - or start using that data to make assumptions about pronouns, identities, or legal records.
They discuss:
• Why many organizations struggle to explain why they collect gender data
• How workplace systems quietly repurpose gender information behind the scenes
• Why mandatory gender questions can create anxiety and mistrust among trans and non-binary people
• The common ways organizations accidentally misuse gender data
• When gender data collection actually is useful, including pay equity and representation tracking
• Why voluntary disclosure and transparency matter
• How organizations can audit forms, surveys, HR systems, and employee records more responsibly
Whether you work in human resources, equity, diversity, and inclusion (EDI), compliance, healthcare, education, operations, or workplace leadership, this episode offers a practical look at how employee data collection impacts real people - and why small form fields can have much bigger consequences than organizations realize.
🛠️ Take Action: Audit Your Organization's Forms
The simple recommendation is: if you don't have a use for it, don't collect it. Take the first step toward ethical data practices by downloading the free 10-page Gender Data Uses Template highlighted by Kai in this episode. Use this operational tool to run a clean inventory of your data collection points, map out downstream system access, and activate your data in ways that are safe, powerful and beneficial.
👉 [Download the Free Gender Data Uses Template Here]
🔍 Key Episode Topics & Search Terms
Workplace gender data collection, diversity equity and inclusion metrics, ethical data practices HR, transgender workplace privacy, designing inclusive surveys, corporate compliance, demographic data tracking.
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Transcript
Why is gender data collected automatically?
00:00:05
Speaker
To make the data nerds happy, we felt inclined to record another episode about gender data today, specifically on the ethics around data collection. Often this um this information is collected simply because it's kind of always been collected rather than having a specific plan in place as to what is going to be done with that
Introduction to Kai Scott and purpose of gender data collection
00:00:26
Speaker
data. so I'm super happy to be joined by the biggest data nerd of them all, Kai Scott. Hello, how are you doing?
00:00:35
Speaker
Oh yeah, data, that's my favorite. I mean, such I can't, it's so true. I am a self-identified nerd, proudly a nerd. and Yeah, the only thing is I got to be careful because, you know, washrooms could be listening and be very upset. yeah Washroom king. Well, you can be you can be speaking ah from somebody who lives in a kingdom or used to live in a kingdom. And you can be the you can be the king of multiple different places. Unfortunately, we know.
00:01:11
Speaker
I'll toggle between all of this, but definitely data number one for me. um Well, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing great. um Yeah, really lovely day and I'm always excited to talk about data.
00:01:26
Speaker
nerd are Good. I'm really glad. I'm really glad for you. I this is the topic, as you know, that I'm always like, oh, God, I don't really know anything about this. But hopefully there'll be other people who are in a similar position to me. So I won't be asking too many stupid questions. Hopefully.
00:01:42
Speaker
Hopefully they'll be useful.
The tradition of collecting gender data without purpose
00:01:43
Speaker
um One of the ones that I wanted to start with then is about the fact that. um Gender data is sort of one of those pieces of information that is it just always collected. It's almost automatic, but we just kind of don't even think about it. It's like, we'll just ask the for gender. And so I kind of wanted to ask, like, that's a that's a bit of a problem in itself, no? Yes. The unquestioning collection of gender data Yeah, it's so ingrained in our society as kind of part of just the thing that you collect to understand personal information about somebody. It's kind of similar to address, first name, phone number, you know, whether you're married, and then gender. Right.
00:02:30
Speaker
Those are like the the constellation of things that we think we need to know in order to either serve somebody if they're a client or a customer or to support employees as part of an organization. And so it's just like...
00:02:46
Speaker
automatic, um unquestioned, and oftentimes doesn't have like an intended purpose ah beyond just as just having collected It's like we're done. and That's it. End station. And so it's kind of really interesting to go into organizations and just understand and ah more about this gender data collection that they're usually already underway.
Challenges in justifying gender data collection
00:03:13
Speaker
But usually when I ask them, why do you collect it? They usually say, well, it's just the way we've always done it, you know? Right. Yeah. And so that's where the the conversation begins and then unfolds from there. So it's a very yeah rich and interesting journey that we usually go on with clients. Right.
00:03:33
Speaker
I kind of wanted to ask that again I know you sort of gave an answer but I i wanted to ask what clients say when you ask why that they are like what it obviously because we all we always have is one answer but what other kinds of answers do you usually get in relation to that?
00:03:51
Speaker
Well, the first reaction is actually a stunned silence. They're like, what? What do you mean? Why? and i think that reveals just how ingrained it Absolutely.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. People don't even think to pause and say, okay, yeah, why are we collecting? And what are we going to use it for? And where's it going? And who's going to have access to it? and whole number of of long questions. um But yeah, the the common thing is just like, yeah, it's always the way we've always done it, but shouldn't we collect it Like they're a bit puzzled and uncertain sometimes, or they might actually have an intended purpose sometimes. Like it's not always a stunned silence. It can be, but sometimes it's also a bit of an odd response. Like it's not maybe a direct map. to gender for everybody and that's where it gets complicated too so yeah it's just kind of yeah the way we've always done it and I would say in our experience most organizations don't have an answer to that question um once we get over the stunned silence and people say well it's the way we've always done it they don't actually have an answer
00:05:08
Speaker
They collect it and then it sits on a shelf, like the figurative shelf or the digital shelf.
Concerns over clarity and inclusivity in gender data forms
00:05:16
Speaker
That's so interesting. And I sort of wanted to ask because one of the things that I notice when ah you know I'm filling in a form or something in and they're collecting gender data is that they don't tend to actually have an explanation of how it will be used, presumably because there isn't a reason for it to be used. But I kind of wanted to ask about... um why that kind of clarity is that why it matters so much like you do need a purpose and you need to kind of explain that totally and I can understand it from like somebody like yourself and myself and others who are filling out forms they're like why am I being asked this? Like, and maybe not always related to gender. It could be like, why are you wanting to know about my income level? Like, and I'm at the best. Yeah. That's a big one. Why you need to know that? I don't even want to know that. Right. So it's just like, yeah. And you're at the petting zoo. You're like, how does this relate? you know Right. and yeah um so it's
00:06:16
Speaker
it Yeah. So the the explaining is super important, I would say, particularly for trans and non-binary folks, because oftentimes gender is collected in so many different ways and can mean so many different things to organizations or depending on the context, if you're in healthcare versus, you know, signing up at your gym, you know, there's like different utilizations or in so many cases not using it, but collecting it that cause a lot of concern. you know It's just like there's a bit of skittishness that trans and non-binary folks feel because they're reading this form and I'll just give myself as an example. I'll be like, okay, what is your gender? Okay, cool. And then there'll be sex-based responses. And then I'm like, ooh, I don't know if you're if the organization fully understands what this data means to me And then how it'll be applied within their organizational context. And it just causes concern, especially if it's not explained. i will actually um tend to not respond to it if that is an option. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes you're forced to respond. But if no explanation is given, i don't feel confident enough to
00:07:36
Speaker
give that information because I don't know how it'll be used and I can't even correct what how it might be used based on misunderstanding about what I'm providing so it uh yeah it's complicated for sure especially if it's not explained yeah Could you give like a bit of an explanation of what, when you say that you might select your gender and then you'll be given sex-based questions, could you give an example of what those questions
Issues with sex-based responses for gender questions
00:08:03
Speaker
might look like? Right.
00:08:04
Speaker
So yeah, what is your gender is the question. And then the sex-based responses are usually female and male. Those are sex related versus man or woman.
00:08:18
Speaker
Hopefully it's an expanded list, not always. And sometimes that's where they end is just two when there's actually a spectrum of gender identities. But even if it's expanded, um you know people then include non-binary people um on that list as well.
00:08:36
Speaker
It could be longer than that um depending on the situation, but um if you're asking if an organization is asking for what is your gender identity and then I only see female and male, i i that's enough for me to hesitate. And particularly for a non-binary respondent, there's not a place, not a thing to select too, right? So that makes it complicated. In which case, especially if there's no explanation for how the information is going to be used, there's next to no confidence that they'll understand. Because what happens is they'll, based on the sex-based responses, they'll some organizations map that onto what anatomy somebody has rather than what their internal felt sense of their gender is, which is what they're asking for when they're asking for gender.
Misuse of gender data and incorrect assumptions
00:09:30
Speaker
Or they'll assume what kind of pronouns somebody uses. Like they're just taking gender and then and kind of doing all kinds of things with it um behind a door that nobody has insight into.
00:09:44
Speaker
And that can be disconcerting, not just to trans and non-binary folks, but also cisgender folks or those who are not trans. And so that's, yeah, there's a lot going on there.
00:09:58
Speaker
In what cases is it ah sort of relevant or where it makes sense to collect gender
Valuable uses of gender data in organizations
00:10:03
Speaker
data? Like there there are some examples where it can genuinely be useful or serve sort of important purposes.
00:10:11
Speaker
That's the thing, and that's really important to emphasize is we're not saying don't collect gender ever, right? We want to be thoughtful about it, but there are really good reasons to collect gender data. I'm thinking in particular within the workplace, collecting representative data to understand who is represented in one's organization.
00:10:33
Speaker
you know, not just gender, it could be race and ethnicity, it could be, ah you know, ability, um immigration status, you know, to the degree that people are comfortable sharing that information, should always be voluntary. But that's where it's it's helpful to know, okay, we don't have that many of this gender in leadership. Like, what are we going to do about that in ways that don't reflect our society? So we're out of step with, you know, the general population. And, you know, there are things that we can do to better support folks or recruit more folks, you know, whatever the case may be, if we have that data at the ready.
00:11:14
Speaker
So there's representation, there's pay equity, that's in some provinces in Canada a requirement, so it's not like optional, it's legally required. And thankfully, at least in British Columbia, the list is in an expanded form. So it includes men, women, and non-binary folks, which is great.
00:11:34
Speaker
I would love to go a little step further and have trans men and women, but that's just me. And little side note for another day. Yeah. But, you know, those are some really good, compelling cases, or even to know if there are specific supports that particular groups need, of which, you know, especially trans and non-binary folks can't can have unique needs, that if you collect those representation data, or if you have gender data, you can then see that. Right. Yeah.
Avoiding unnecessary gender data collection
00:12:08
Speaker
On the flip side then of that, what would you say are some situations where collecting gender data is unnecessary or you talked about as well, like gender data sort of being repurposed. And so I kind of wanted to talk about where organizations are trying to use it for something that it really shouldn't be used for. Yeah.
00:12:29
Speaker
Well, the first reason i would say um for not to collect it is if you're not going use it. It's as simple as that. like sure So if if the first question I ask is why do you use it? And you're like, we have no reason to use it.
00:12:45
Speaker
Then that's the end of the story. the The recommendation is don't collect it. It's simple and easy for the organization to implement.
00:12:55
Speaker
because you just don't put it on the survey, the forum, or whatnot. So that would be kind of the first order. But if people have kind of listed out a ah few things or one or more things that they're going to use gender data for, we can go through them. And we do this in strategy sessions. We go through their list of either existing or what they would like to use it in the future.
00:13:19
Speaker
um And one by one, we often see how organizations think that they can get much more out of gender data than really they can without making assumptions.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah. So this is where it gets complicated. few examples we've seen over the years, they collect gender and then they think they can know people's pronouns.
00:13:44
Speaker
So they want to do is says ah this This person says she's a woman. Well, there, i already did it. Therefore, this person uses she, her pronouns, right? So it's such an automatic thing that we do in our society. And, you know,
00:14:03
Speaker
um I think many times that mapping is correct for that person. It's not like it's never right. But for those who it is incorrect, that puts them in a very um difficult position of having to come forward, out themselves, correct it, know, whatever, or not address it and be misgendered, right? So This is not a good mapping. um Other times, ah people collect gender to then map on to ah assumed bodies what people's you know sex characteristics are within a healthcare care context.
00:14:44
Speaker
And um that doesn't always map, especially for trans and non-binary folks. Some people have had surgeries, others have not. And so we can't use gender to know much about what somebody's hormones are, what their primary or secondary sex characteristics are.
00:15:02
Speaker
um And that often comes to play when An organization asks for gender and then provides that information to the healthcare care benefits um who are actually interested in sex.
00:15:18
Speaker
Right. So, yeah. So it gets all messy because of that. So those are just a few examples of what...
Problems with gender as an identity verification tool
00:15:28
Speaker
where ah One other example is this comes up in organizations that are having to verify identities. They'll often use first name, date of birth, and gender to verify because they feel like those are quote unquote stable, right?
00:15:45
Speaker
<unk> So you can see how that's not the case for trans and non-binary folks. And so using gender as part of verification is like deeply troubling and people can have their will have be required to say their the gender they were assumed at birth rather than their correct gender, you know, depending on what's on their government issued ID and yada yada. So it's just like, there's other ways to verify without using gender.
00:16:18
Speaker
As somebody whose gender changes on a regular basis, the idea of ah gender being stable is such a funny concept. So I get that. Yeah, exactly. It's like people, you know, just based on how society has talked about gender and it's just this considered this immutable fact that is always stays the same. And it's not the case.
00:16:44
Speaker
Always. Always. No.
Voluntary collection of gender data and potential misuse
00:16:46
Speaker
um you You mentioned a little bit earlier about how those questions when it comes to collecting data for someone's gender should be compulsory. And so I kind of wanted to ask you about the importance of that.
00:16:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yes. So depending on the situation, um there can be a requirement to provide gender data.
00:17:10
Speaker
And sometimes organizations haven't thought it through. They just forgot to uncheck the required box, you know? So it's not always that there's like this like heavy-handed approach being like intended, yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's because of a legal requirement. They like or want to really emphasize that. other you know like For example, universities, they do collect gender data of students to understand representation and who's graduating and you know who's not graduating and what degrees and you know on and on and on, which is really important data. And that requirement makes that possible.
00:17:54
Speaker
and it is then forcing people into a situation where government has their data. And you know a in a progressive province like BC, maybe it's fine. you know But now we're in a situation in the United States where you know, not so progressive or hostile states are using those data against trans and non-binary folks. They have records of people who are trans and that is deeply problematic because then they can, you know, ah bring the the force of law and make their lives miserable and difficult. So it's not, we have to think about kind of downstream consequences of these types of data collection efforts, especially government. So.
00:18:46
Speaker
Now I lost your question the question. Oh, it should be voluntary is is the main takeaway there. Because I appreciate that required gives people the data. And as a data nerd and, you know, social scientist, I love data. But, you know, people ought to be able to make decisions for themselves. And if there's not enough trust,
00:19:12
Speaker
That is really important insight into needing to work harder to explain things or bring people along or whatnot. Like the scaffolding is not there. So I don't think people should be or organizations shouldn't be afraid of low response rates because then that means there's more to do.
00:19:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Fair. to To end then ah here, ah for organizations listening and or people of organizations listening and the thinking, oh God, we do that. What's one question they should be asking themselves before collecting any gender related information? Yeah.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah.
Mapping and improving gender data collection practices
00:19:53
Speaker
I always encourage ah organizations as a starting point to, you know, map where they collect gender. If there's just one or two, it's fine. It's pretty manageable. But sometimes you collect it in, you know, 10 different areas in 10 different ways, you know, so it's a little bit of a, like an inventory process to be like, whoa, okay, we have a lot of, lot of different ways going on here. um And to standardize it a bit more.
00:20:23
Speaker
but then to map where it goes from there like you know downstream it goes to this app and then they use it in this way uh or it goes to this department and they use it in this way you know like just map out the uses to know okay okay how's it being used okay interesting they're taking the gender data and now attributing titles mr ms mrs Like, should we be doing that?
00:20:50
Speaker
You know, like, so it gives you an opportunity to take to take stock of where things are at and how things are being utilized. And then to to fact check or verify that that's a proper use of that without kind of losing anybody that may not have, you know, chosen those titles, those pronouns, those, they don't have that body, you know, like, um so the inventory is a really important starting point.
00:21:18
Speaker
you have um a resource that you wanted to share and I was wondering if you could talk about that too Oh yeah, I'm very excited about this. Gender, it's the gender data uses.
00:21:34
Speaker
it's It's very, such i know it's so bad. It's so bad that I was like excited to make this and and i was like, oh, this is gonna be so good.
00:21:47
Speaker
But yeah, this is a um template that we're gonna provide you know for free. based on, and this is something you can kind of download and then fill out as an organization to be like, this is how we're collecting gender. This is where, you know, we're collecting gender. This is how we're going to use it. Here's who's responsible for the gender data. Who's here can access. We haven't even talked about access like that. That's really important that depending on, you know, if it's an employee or a client,
00:22:22
Speaker
who has access to that should be actually pretty limited, um especially to people who know how to properly utilize those data without overextending or misappropriating those data too, right? So this just goes kind of bit by bit through that and will allow organizations to properly set that up And actually inspires conversations that really deepen the understanding and and like activates the data in ways that are powerful and beneficial that people can see in action and then feel more inspired to provide more data because they know it actually translates into something. So all that to say.
00:23:08
Speaker
We have a template. Obviously, if you get stuck anywhere, we're happy to help at Transfocus or just me. But I will further handle on not in on that. Hey, you never know. We've we've got Nico deeply and excited about data. So I feel like our project manager used to be a bit like maybe ah quantitative suspicious. And now I can relate to that.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah. now likes the the stats so i'm starting to understand that there is a level of indoctrination going on in trans focus this is the real transgender is getting people into data yeah exactly it's so subtle nobody knows until it happens they're like wait a second how did it happen right well so come join us yeah if next year i start saying about how much i love data you'll know that it's happened to me too and you're next yeah and you're like blink twice if you need help amazing well thank you so much kai thank you and see you next week