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Trans Regret Rates: What the Research Actually Shows
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Do trans people regret transitioning? The research says something very different from what most people assume about transition regret.
In this episode, El and Kai break down the real data on transgender regret rates, gender-affirming care outcomes, and detransition statistics — including a meta-analysis of 27 studies across 14 countries and nearly 8,000 trans patients, which found a combined regret rate of just 1%, compared to 20% or more for other common medical procedures like bariatric surgery and LASIK.
They unpack why regret after gender-affirming surgery happens on the rare occasions it does (hint: it's mostly not about gender identity), the pressure trans and non-binary people face to have "all the answers" before being taken seriously, and what loved ones can actually do if they're afraid someone they care about might regret transitioning. They close with practical guidance on responding to a loved one's gender journey — binary or non-binary — with curiosity instead of fear.
In this episode:
- Why regret became the go-to fear around trans identities
- Transgender regret rates vs. other medical and surgical procedures
- What regret is actually about when it happens
- Detransition and detransitioner support — what the research says
- How to support a loved one exploring their gender identity
- A free allyship resource for working through "stuck" thoughts and bias
Resources mentioned:
1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8099405/
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002961024002381
3. https://int.livhospital.com/most-regretted-surgery-the-shocking-top-5-list/
Stress-Free Allyship guide: https://www.transfocus.ca/s/Final-_-TransFocus-Resource-on-Stress-Free-Allyship-Resource.pdf
About Gender in Focus:
Gender in Focus is a podcast from TransFocus, exploring gender diversity, trans and non-binary experiences, and how organizations and individuals can build genuinely inclusive workplaces and communities. New episodes weekly.
Connect with us online:
🌐 Learn more about how we can support your workplace: www.transfocus.ca/organization 📸 Instagram: @transfocusconsulting
🎥 Watch our YouTube episodes here: www.youtube.com/@transfocusconsulting
📧 Email: podcast@transfocus.ca
➡️ Have feedback for us? Fill in this short survey: www.podcastsurvey.scoreapp.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Weather Chat
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Dender in Focus. I'm Elle and as always I'm here with Kai. How are you doing? I'm doing well. How about yourself? I'm excellent. I'm in such a good mood. No, I'm very well. Thank you. um It's got very sunny. Has it been raining all week where you are?
00:00:23
Speaker
Or is that just here in Edmonton? Well, I've kind of been a whole bunch of places in the last bit. So it's all kind of merged. Yes, it's all merged into one. So, but a lot of rain. which It's been raining so much here in Edmonton, which is not very common. I feel like I'm back home. But today we've got blue skies. It's beautiful. I'm feeling the love from that. Yeah, yeah.
00:00:48
Speaker
Vitamin D. Let's go. For sure, at long last.
Concerns about Transition Regret
00:00:52
Speaker
um So today, Kai, we're talking about one of the more prevalent or one of the top concerns that people have when it comes to trans people and the idea of transitioning in general, which is that trans people will regret it. Yes. Which...
00:01:08
Speaker
du du du ah But it's a really big fear for a lot of people. And then I guess when that fear gets projected onto trans people, it can become a reason to doubt them or to dismiss what they're saying or delay support even. um So that's what I want to grill you on today, if that's all right. Oh, yeah. That sounds like fun. Let's get into it.
00:01:31
Speaker
So why do you think that regret... becomes like such a central fair in conversations about trans-alternational binary people. Oh my gosh, right?
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, regret. um think in general, My hypothesis is that many people fear regret and then ah i don't know much about trans and non-binary issues or experiences. And those kind of get combined into this mixture of like, how can you know? How can you be sure?
00:02:08
Speaker
Especially if it's a relatively new piece of information for the person receiving it. Like the trans and non-binary person has been mulling these things over for likely a long time. Right. So, you know, there's that aspect that is less visible to the person who to whom it was just shared. And so it could it could be this kind of new thing combined with kind of general concerns about regret that then, you know, get kind of put on this trans person.
Societal Pressure and Identity Explanation
00:02:41
Speaker
and
00:02:43
Speaker
you know, the the concept being that this is a big thing, right, um to come out, or for some who choose to, to to undertake gender-affirming care of any kind. And so people...
00:02:58
Speaker
are they're pausing and they're then asking a lot of questions, the subtext being often that eventually the trans or non-binary person will regret or actually consider themselves to be cisgender and just had a bit of a detour. um Rather than saying, actually, this is a legitimate experience and gender identity and whatnot. So, yeah, those are some of the dynamics at play.
00:03:29
Speaker
So it's like the fear, like people have the fear of regret for themselves. Is that what you mean? and Yes. They can't quite understand someone else's experience, so assume that they must be fearing the same thing or experiencing the same thing. Interesting. Interesting.
00:03:47
Speaker
when somebody is expressing that level of regret or fear of regret, sorry, I'm imagining that it creates quite a lot of pressure for trans and non-binary people to, for for a lot of things, but specifically to explain themselves perfectly, to make sure that people understand their experience.
00:04:06
Speaker
Oh, yeah. This is on the receiving end of these types of questions or even statements where people are like, you're going to regret it. And, you know, I'm not going to take this seriously until further down the road when it's established. I'm putting that in heavy air quotes right because that's not a thing. Yeah.
00:04:27
Speaker
But yeah, there's this general pressure in our society, whether it's on this topic or others, for people to have a degree of certainty about who they are and that they kind of know for sure one part and then right away second part. There's two things. Right. Yeah, happening together there. And I just think it's more complicated than that because we live in a society where we have different types of messaging, whether through media or the people around us.
Understanding Identity over Time
00:05:02
Speaker
And so it takes time to unpack that and to locate oneself and to find that inner voice that to listen to it, to you know try different things and see how that resonates or doesn't. And so and then to figure out what those resonances mean together.
00:05:24
Speaker
And so i think there's a lot of pressure on trans and non-binary folks to figure that out. And as a result, it takes a while or maybe for some, not everybody, but it takes a while for them to figure that out. And by virtue of taking that time, that then gets used against them as a way to discount there the whether something is real or not, and which is bizarre, right? Because that's the very thing that they're trying to have a bit more certainty around before sharing in a way that fundamentally changes their lives and how they...
00:06:02
Speaker
interact with other folks. So it's a really like big pickle that they're put in. So yeah, these are some of the things at play when people put this pressure on folks by saying things or by asking questions that imply that a trans person will regret their decisions later on.
00:06:25
Speaker
I really want, if it's okay with you to ask about what you've just said, like there's a specific thing that I really want you to unpack if possible, which is about this, in which you mentioned the idea that um you must have it all figured out. If, if for example, someone says that they're trans,
00:06:43
Speaker
And therefore they now have all of the answers to everything. And if you don't, then that's used against you. Could you go a bit deeper into that in terms of regret?
The Complexity of Self-Understanding
00:06:50
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And, you know, there is a certain amount of um understanding that's been created, but and like anybody, we're we're never complete in some sense, right? We're continuous a continuous process of understanding ourselves in so many different dimensions. Obviously, we're talking about gender here specifically, um but this this concept that trans and non-binary folks will just know everything and be able to address that, unpack that with folks,
00:07:24
Speaker
educate other people in a way that they can understand, which is really difficult too, because people have their felt experience, but then attributing words to that is like, oh, it's so freaking hard, you know? like yeah yeah And then people have their own preconceived notions that kind of limit their ability to understand trans and non-binary folks. And so there's just so many barriers. And this is all placed on trans and non-binary folks in a way that makes it really hard just to exist, like just to be in the world in ways that cisgender people generally get to experience of just kind of people being like, yeah, of course, that person's a woman or that person's a man, like no questions asked. But trans of non-binary folks get pummeled with questions and consistently asked to say who they are and verify that in some way, even though, you know, like, what are the measures? yeah
00:08:32
Speaker
and And it just really is a pretty impossible place to be asked. Especially with that overlay of regret, right? Because you can never really get past that if that's ah somebody's starting point um without them doing some heavy lifting on their end to unpack that for themselves.
00:08:55
Speaker
Right. Right. So, ah yeah, especially if it's used as a way to delay accepting somebody. It's like, well, I don't know if this is going to be stable in air quotes. And so, you know, I, that somebody could say, you know, I'm going to hold out using your proper name or using your pronoun until such time as I have deemed as appropriate um that this is now stable. You know, what is that five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road? Like people don't think through what they're actually saying and what that implies and without and very vague notions of what would be considered in their mind as, you know, quote unquote stable.
00:09:43
Speaker
And so it really is a harmful impact on trans and non-binary folks who, oh that acceptance is really important part of their journey. Mm-hmm.
00:09:55
Speaker
I wanted to ask you about what we miss when we only focus on the risks of regret, because there's also the risks of the trans and non-binary people experience of being unsupported or being
Risks of Lack of Support
00:10:08
Speaker
unable to live openly. Like it's not as simple as, well, I'll just see what happens if you say you're trans, like, like you've just said, like, I'll wait and see a specific time that I deem it.
00:10:20
Speaker
Correct. But there are risks to that approach. Yeah, absolutely. And we see this in the research too, that you know people often are focused on the regret of you know thinking that they're trans, but they're not, which is, we'll get into it later, a very, very small, narrow slice. It's not to say it doesn't exist, but it's a very narrow slice.
00:10:46
Speaker
when actually the risk of the other person, like the person who's saying, asking about regret, them regretting not having supported, that is actually a huge part of people as they get along in their understanding, they realize just how harmful it is to question somebody's gender,
00:11:09
Speaker
especially after they've done all this exploring and deep diving and effort and you know steps that they're taking to be themselves uh that can actually create a bit of harm quite a bit of harm and so i think it's actually um also important to realize that regret is also not the end of the world, right? sometimes people think, Oh, we got to avoid regret at all costs. There could be 0% regret.
00:11:42
Speaker
And it's like, that's not possible. Number one, regret will be a part of somebody's story. And I agree that we want to minimize that regret.
00:11:53
Speaker
Um, especially if there's ways to flag it early on. However, I don't think regret is such a horrible thing. um It depends, obviously, on the variables, but I think it's important to reframe our understanding of regret to say that it's actually an important part of getting to know oneself, to learn and grow as well.
00:12:16
Speaker
Right. Right, irrespective of, we might not be talking about gender identity in that case. Like, we could be talking about anything, and that's true in all cases. Yeah. um You've mentioned that regret does happen occasionally, very rarely, but it does happen. And so when that regret does happen for trans and non-binary people, what is it actually...
00:12:38
Speaker
What is it often actually about? of of the Yeah, so we'll post some studies that have been done and some meta-analyses. So looking across different studies and kind of compiling them, which provide a really powerful insight into this topic.
Regret and Social Stigma
00:13:00
Speaker
um also want to always flag that these are small sample sizes right talking about one percent of the population so invariably you can't have thousands upon hundreds of thousands of people in the studies right um so we always want to couch the results in that way and be you know mindful of that
00:13:24
Speaker
But um what the regret is generally about when we look at the studies, and this is after surgery, you usually get, you know, many trans and non-binary folks get a survey or they're part of an interview to say, hey, what's what's been your experience? You know, four or five years, maybe longer down the road. Yeah. And time and time again, when we do see regret, which comes up, as I mentioned, the reasons are actually more psychosocial than they are about their identity. They're mostly fine with their identity, but the kind of stigma that they experience around them, whether family, friends, society in general, is so staggering that they kind of reel from that. in a way that they're like, this cost is too high. you know like They want to be the gender that they are, but the the level of pushback around them is too much for them to handle.
00:14:26
Speaker
And it might be hard for some cisgender people to realize just how much pushback people get and how difficult that is for folks to handle.
00:14:38
Speaker
And I would say that happens particularly on the trans feminine side of the spectrum. but And so, yeah. And of course, there can be intersecting um elements to that, you know, people of color or people with disability might have additional layers that they're considering around this. So it's not about generally about the identity, although there are some who are like, uh,
00:15:06
Speaker
actually, i'm cisgender. I have gone through this journey to understand that, but I'm actually cisgender and are reversing any medical treatment that they've received. So that does come up.
00:15:19
Speaker
But the most greatest percentage of the folks who regret are actually about these social dynamics. I think that's, you were saying that most like a lot of cis people might not realize the level of pushback that people get and it's like it's it can be so staggering for so many people to have the amount of loss that a lot of people experience and like if you're somebody who's come out as trans and have lost your partner or your family your parents your brothers and sisters your like friends like your career even like it's so much to have to consider and it's terrifying and if you then make that leap and lose everything around you it's you can understand why somebody would maybe regret that choice as even if they feel it themselves for the first time the amount of pushback is so staggering
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I would say even worsening in these this time in this era that we're in. So we can't actually truly measure the way that people think about regret, which is like, actually, this is not my gender and form of regret.
00:16:31
Speaker
until we have full acceptance of trans and non-binary folks. Or at the very least, which is being done in the research, it is identifying specific aspects of regret um along a ah scale, right? um And is it like kind of pinpointing, is this a psychosocial thing or is this about your gender identity? Or there's also kind of the surgery outcomes can sometimes not be quite how people expected. Right. Which is a little bit more towards the kind of usual way that regret happens in medicine medical procedures more generally. So, um yeah, but there's all these different nuances. And I think it's really important to pinpoint because, as I mentioned, the regret level is really about the stigma than it is about kind of misidentified gender identity.
00:17:30
Speaker
hmm. mentioned then about regret after other medical procedures. That's like the big focus is like you're making these changes to your body and now, and you're gonna regret it and it's gonna be terrible. And then we kind of forget that regret, which is potentially true,
00:17:47
Speaker
but potentially not true too, but we forget that other medical procedures also come with regret and we seem to treat those things differently. Right. It is so bizarre to me because I think people think, you know, massive amount of regret among trans and non-binary folks, you know, i don't know, like majority regret.
Regret Rates in Medical Decisions
00:18:07
Speaker
Right. And then suddenly 0% for any other procedure.
00:18:11
Speaker
Right. It's like, actually, it's really different. Obviously, varies by the procedure itself. So that's important to note. um I will mention among trans and non-binary folks. So this is a meta study of 27 studies with about 8,000 trans patients of across 14 different countries. They found a combined or average regret rate of 1%. Wow.
00:18:40
Speaker
well That's it. And depending if you look at transmasculine versus transfeminine, there's slight variation there. Also across the procedures, slight, but always kind of below 2%.
00:18:54
Speaker
As compared to a few other procedures, which I'll mention, and you'll get all the studies in the show notes in case you wanted to take a closer look or whatnot. um But things kind of just across any procedure, it's kind of the average is about 20%.
00:19:10
Speaker
that yeah in other procedures right not like nothing to do with gender right no it's just generally surgical decisions have this kind of average um it varies you know so for example regret Bariatric surgery is about 20% regret. There's 30% among prostatectomy. I hope I'm saying that correctly. I'm not a medical professional. Removing the prostate for reasons of cancer. So it gives you some sense of, you know, and then LASIK maybe 4%, right? I'm trying to think of like specific, I think 15% for ah breast reconstruction after having having them removed for reasons of cancer. So those are some of the kind of more common medical procedures, and they have a pretty high rate of regret for
00:20:08
Speaker
for sure So, you know, ah more than 1%. Right, so why why do we why do we treat regret around gender-affirming care so differently then compared to other healthcare decisions? Because that's like a staggering difference and I didn't realize it. I knew it was a difference, but I didn't realize it was that much.
00:20:28
Speaker
Well, I think this reveals a, I think people have a hard time sharing that they're uncomfortable with trans and non-binary folks. And instead they couch it in terms of care or consideration or concern. Right. And regret is kind of top of that list of trying to say they're concerned, but really what's beneath it is regret.
00:20:53
Speaker
a bias that people have and and the stigma that exists and they're kind of trying to couch it in a more favorable light because it's like, well, I'm only saying that because I'm concerned about these people, right? When they're not necessarily looking at all the stats and looking at all the variables and then understanding that net positive, like either just somewhat or very positive outcomes um for folks that they are changing their lives in a positive way and and contributing to physical and mental health. And just kind of ignoring this very big side of the equation and really only wanting to focus on the negative. And
00:21:42
Speaker
I don't even think the regret part, if it's 1%, since it's 1%, is that negative either. Now, I can appreciate for individuals who are detransitioning that that's a difficult process. Of course.
00:21:57
Speaker
has its own stigma that we need to unpack and support folks. right Generally, the people who did detransition are still supportive of trans and non-binary folks getting access. There are a few exceptions and they're using that in a negative platform way. to undermine trans and on but most the transitioners are like I found out it wasn't for me but it is for somebody right and we need to continue so I think it's really important to support the transitioners and give them the the care and consideration they need too because they have very unique needs similar or parallel to trans and non-binary folks right yeah for sure
00:22:38
Speaker
So yeah, I think either side of that equation um is important to pay attention to and to give the necessary care to, and it's not necessarily bad or good, right? I think we've kind of mis-painted it in our society.
00:22:57
Speaker
oh One thing that I want to add besides medical or surgical regret is life choice regrets. um Having children.
00:23:11
Speaker
you have a guess? How many people regret having children? Oh, God. This feels like a trap. ah It's all good. 20%. Oh, that that would be pretty high. This is seven, so it's a little bit lower.
00:23:27
Speaker
Maybe I'm just projecting. Exactly. um Getting a tattoo, 16%. ah sixteen percent is it ah think That surprises me that it's only 16%. Oh, you thought it was going to be higher? oh God, yes.
00:23:44
Speaker
I thought it was going to be higher. Maybe because you can redo the tattoos. That's helpful. Or you can remove them. You know, there are options. but know So trans people regret at a much lower rate than people having children.
00:24:03
Speaker
There's the headline. ah but ah That's going to be my title for this. which Wow, that's really interesting. um That's crazy.
00:24:15
Speaker
You have sort of alluded to this earlier on in the episode, but I did want to ask you about regret and whether, like, is regret always a sign that someone made the wrong choice?
00:24:28
Speaker
oh o So, yeah, I a think it's important for us to take a broader look at regret. And what I would offer into the mix is that what typically people conceive about regret is that it means regret.
00:24:46
Speaker
everything is lost i have to start over and it's this big thing which it could be a big thing i'm not discounting the bigness of it but it's actually not that you're like back to square one right right it's net new understanding of oneself that think is really important and gets integrated And then you keep going forward.
00:25:10
Speaker
Sure, there might be, you might need to correct some things, right? Update people about this is now my name and pronoun. That's different from what I proposed or suggested before. Perhaps there's a reversal of of surgeries and and whatnot. Right. you stop doing hormone replacement therapy, whatever the case may be. But I think there is a depth to that person's understanding of their gender that is profound and shouldn't be discounted because that there's not like...
00:25:45
Speaker
It's not the wrong decision. it was a decision that was important for that moment and more understanding came from it. So in my mind, it's a positive thing.
00:25:59
Speaker
um Now, of course, everybody can have their own individual experiences around it. And some people may feel the heaviness of that. And it doesn't feel great to have made that decision. They can think about however they need to or want to.
00:26:14
Speaker
But in general, I think there is something to be said about making a decision and then realizing something about that decision and then adjusting course.
00:26:25
Speaker
Now, one little asterisk I'll put on there is that sometimes what happens for trans and non-binary folks when we say they regret is that the They knew they weren't the gender that was assigned to them
Non-linear Identity Journeys
00:26:41
Speaker
at birth. And then they went to another gender, usually ah another binary, right? And then they realized, no, actually i'm non-binary. Right.
00:26:51
Speaker
And so it can be a two step to figuring out non-binary, which is really difficult because we don't have a context or at least in certain societies, we don't have an understanding or even language around it. And so it really becomes difficult to get there more directly. Right.
00:27:08
Speaker
And so I don't want to discount that experience and that journey to understanding. Obviously, i would want the most direct route for somebody, but like sometimes things aren't direct and and that's okay too, right?
00:27:26
Speaker
So to kind of embrace that learning and growing that we gain from understanding. I kind of want to touch on what you just said then about how people might go to another gender and then realize that they're non-binary and go to that. And I wanted to ask about the difference between changing direction and regretting everything.
00:27:48
Speaker
and that That doesn't necessarily happen or very rarely actually happens. Yeah. So there is um there's a few things there to unpack. One is people kind of indirectly understanding their non-binary That is one direction. There are folks that experience so much social stigma against being, especially trans women, that they might, for practical purposes, kind of
00:28:22
Speaker
back into being non-binary because it's a little bit has a little bit more space there because society doesn't have narrow structures. It does to some degree, you know, expected androgyny or whatnot. hmm.
00:28:37
Speaker
But for the most part, it's a bit more open. um And so there's that. And then the last category you were talking about, or you mentioned, was folks who are like, oh, crap, I'm not trans, right? thought I was, but I'm actually not. And I've clarified this for myself now, having gone through you know some aspect of of transition and found that to not be suitable.
00:29:03
Speaker
And that's really important clarity. um And I would say the depth of somebody like understanding their cisness is much deeper having gone through that experience. It's like you really know, right? Most cisgender people have not thought about, and I'm so suggesting you have to go you know medically transition to understand that you're cis, but to to think it through, to be like, well, you know, why do I accept these things?
00:29:38
Speaker
Are they really mine? And I think as people who have gone through this process, I have really claimed these things as their own, as either not fitting and not for them or fitting and they're going continue with them.
00:29:54
Speaker
And so I actually commend them for undertaking that process. Yeah. Mm-hmm, for sure. I think one of the ways I wanted to sort of lead towards the end of this episode is asking about what...
Supporting Trans Loved Ones
00:30:11
Speaker
um Sorry, there's a dog in my neighborhood barking. i don't know if you can hear that, but it's taking all my attention. What was I going to say? Oh, right. How, how, if somebody does have the initial thought of, oh God, I really think, especially if it's somebody like a loved one who is coming out as trans and saying,
00:30:32
Speaker
like and they're thinking, oh my gosh, what if they regret and they have all this fear of this person that they love and care about very deeply. um What would be the best way for that person to respond to someone's kind of exploration of their gender with curiosity rather than immediate like jump to the bad?
00:30:51
Speaker
Right, the concern. um Yeah, I think there's a ah time and place for people who have that kind of reaction. They're concerned, they're worried about regret, they're like, is this a thing? um And I think it's really important with the trans or non-binary person to simply accept.
00:31:13
Speaker
a It might feel counterintuitive or like, you know, something problematic. But actually, this will whether it's right for them or not is will help this person tremendously.
00:31:29
Speaker
um And maybe there's more to it at the end of the story or that's it. But the acceptance allows for that process to unfold and strengthen or go away if if it's not right for them. um Delaying that by saying, i don't know about this, um actually helps things to kind of lock in place, even if they're not right for somebody. So you're actually helping. People who may need to detransition by accepting so that they can be like, oh, actually, it's not for me, rather than feeling like they have to defend themselves in some way against other people. So that's one thing. But I i appreciate that these thoughts don't just go away on their own. Right. We have them. They pop up.
00:32:17
Speaker
In this case, we're not vocalizing it to the trans or non-binary person. We're accepting them, but we got to go somewhere to deal with this. So we actually have an inquiry process that allows people either on their own or in conversation with other people to think through these thoughts, um usually very stressful thoughts to the people having them. um Because, you know, we're worried about regret and, you know, we're kind of mentally playing through a tape of that person, you know, crashing out in mental way, right? like
00:32:52
Speaker
Usually it's not just a thought. There's a lot of images that come with that thought. And so... One thing that we offer is kind of turning around the statement to see what else might be true. and It's not to say that the original statement is not true.
00:33:08
Speaker
It's just other things might also be true. And turn around things like, I would regret it. which is true. If you're a cisgender person, ah transition is not for you. Right. So you mean like you have the regret, the thought that this person might regret it, and then you're looking at other statements to to um think about what's going on in a deeper way for yourself rather than projecting that onto somebody else? Exactly.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and part of it is like one's own concepts of regret and what we think about regret and then kind of mapping that onto somebody else rather than kind of wrestling with it on our own to be like,
00:33:54
Speaker
what do I think about regret? What in my life am I worried about regretting that has nothing to do with trans or gender or might for gender for you, but um it's just going deeper in that rather than kind of spilling it over to others. And the other turnaround is that they won't regret it. So I think that's really important to entertain. That's more likely the case, given the stats. So what would that mean if you you know didn't support this person or didn't come along? um
00:34:27
Speaker
you know, you might later on regret that lack of support. We've talked to so many, especially parents of adult children that are trans and and their biggest thing is like the the regret of not showing up earlier.
00:34:42
Speaker
you know, and so you kind of have lost years um or sometimes longer decades where that lack of understanding just kind of festers and divides people.
00:34:55
Speaker
um And then the other turnaround is to the opposite, which is they will flourish, right? So having also a mental image of them, like being very excited, which is a a common experience um with either coming out and socially transitioning or also medically for those who it's right for and people just open up in a way that people have never seen before or maybe saw before they hip puberty or whatnot but yeah it's it's a very yeah stark contrast kind of before and after
00:35:34
Speaker
So it sounds like um in terms of if somebody is struggling with this idea, like they're really worried about the trans person in their life who has, like that they might get regret. It's thinking about all of the possibilities, including that they might regret it, but that or there are as a whole, there's a myriad of different and alternatives to that too. And giving all of those alternative outcomes equal weight to what they're doing.
00:36:02
Speaker
what might be coming up for you and what the possibilities are. Is that what you mean? Absolutely. Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it because oftentimes we're just fixated on one thing and then miss or are surprised by other things. And it's really just being able to hold all of those things in one's mental landscape to be able to show up for whatever comes. Right. And that's more of an open stance to towards something. And in the meantime,
00:36:35
Speaker
you know There's the support through just very basic things like name and pronouns and respecting what they're saying rather than constantly pushing back or fighting it in some way. um I get that some of that is coming from fear, um kind of a ah protective fear. course. But it doesn't actually serve the relationship and what we've been able to see. And and acceptance gets to the outcomes that are needed much faster.
00:37:04
Speaker
one way or another. But you're right, that kind of open open heart, open mind approach um can really lead to somebody being there for somebody, like literally, you know, rather than kind of being in their own head about what's going to happen, usually fear-based and not being able to see what's actually right in front of them, which in some cases or in many cases is joy and people miss joy, which is for me a tragedy, right?
00:37:38
Speaker
For sure. Yeah.
00:37:41
Speaker
I did really like what you said about how being accepting and using the name and pronouns that somebody has ah requested, even if you yourself are unsure about it, how that kind of speeds the process up. And I was thinking this earlier in the episode and then I didn't say it because I thought maybe it was a bit insensitive. Yeah. But there is something about that. And we were talking about this in that where I think when this goes out, it will already be done. But we are doing a pronoun pilot right now where we're inviting some some people who are considering changing pronouns to um submit the pronouns and name that they want to use and that they will that we will be just like holding a conversation that we record and send to them so that they can hear it back and decide whether that feels good or
Resources and Reflections
00:38:25
Speaker
not. And that whole point is if it doesn't feel good, they'll know. So if you accept that somebody says, hey, I want to use, I want to go by she, her pronouns and you start doing that and they, it turns out that that isn't right for them. They'll know so fast because it will feel wrong for them. And so by refusing to do it, you're delaying that whole process. And so ah if you just accept people as who they say they are they can figure out the rest of themselves.
00:38:52
Speaker
Absolutely. And that's such a good point that, you know, we can support that process and whatever its outcome is. And the testing is an important part of it, right? For sure. Yeah. You just don't know until it's really out in the world, ah how it connects internally.
00:39:11
Speaker
And what a gift that people could be a part of that process rather than kind of be stones in the way of of that unfolding. In that process that you just described of how people can do that, we have a resource that people can use. And I was wondering if you could just go into that a bit too.
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah. So for those who want to feel stress-free when they're being allies of trans folks, but have a thought that's just kind of stuck in your mind and perhaps you feel like you can't kind of get rid of it or stice-step it,
00:39:46
Speaker
It's leaning into that thought. And we have this resource that gets guides you through those steps that we usually have as part of the process, um asking if it's true, you know, how do you feel when you think the thought? What would you be without the thought? And then these turnarounds that I talked about. So you're kind of flipping the statement in different ways. Again, not to discount the original thought, it could be true, but there's other things that can also be true. And so just having that more expanded view of what is also could be at play or possible, and that can often bring just so much less stress into the situation and can kind of dissolve some of that information.
00:40:28
Speaker
difficulty that some people might be facing um so definitely invite you to check the resource out and apply it to yourself or work with somebody else to to work through that um and see how that'll have a positive impact on your relationship with
Episode Wrap-Up
00:40:44
Speaker
trans and non-binary folks in your life amazing well i'll link that in the show notes along with the studies that you mentioned earlier um I don't think there's anything else. Is there anything else you want say? think we covered a lot of good ah key things or key issues related to this topic and hopefully provided some clarity for for folks who are interested. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai.
00:41:10
Speaker
And I will see you next week. Okay. Bye for now. Bye. Bye.