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053 - The Courage to Slow Down: Shame, Surrender, and the Soul’s Reckoning with Jeffrey Siegel
12 Plays1 month ago
In this powerful episode of Vulnerability Muscle, host Reggie D. Ford sits down with Jeff Siegel—a men’s health and wellness coach, writer, and mindfulness teacher at Harvard University—for a transformative conversation on redefining masculinity, healing from disordered eating, and reimagining success beyond hustle culture.
Jeff shares deeply personal stories from his upbringing, including his struggle with an eating disorder, the impact of absentee fatherhood, and the cultural pressures that push men away from vulnerability. From martial arts to Buddhist studies, neuroscience to spiritual embodiment, Jeff walks us through his multi-layered healing journey and offers listeners tools to return to their bodies, center their nervous systems, and reframe productivity with compassion.
Together, Reggie and Jeff explore questions that men—and all humans—need to sit with:
- What do you need that you didn’t get?
- Can success coexist with rest, presence, and peace?
- How do we shed societal expectations and allow ourselves to simply be?
This episode is an open invitation to redefine strength, create space for healing, and finally come home to ourselves.
Key Topics Covered:
- The duality of physical vs. emotional vulnerability
- How shame shapes male identity and behavior
- Jeff’s story of developing and recovering from an eating disorder
- The connection between trauma, control, and food
- Why asking for help is the ultimate act of strength
- The masks of masculinity and where they originate
- Naming internal "parts" to understand and integrate them (e.g. “Productive Pete”)
- Redefining hustle culture and success on your own terms
- Presence over perfection in fatherhood and life
- How Buddhist studies and mind-brain education inform Jeff’s healing philosophy
- Spiritual practices for grounded well-being in a materialistic world
- The limitations of corporate wellness if culture doesn’t change
If this episode resonates with you, share it with a man in your life who needs to hear it. Subscribe to Vulnerability Muscle for more soul-stretching conversations, and don’t forget to rate and review!
Connect with Jeff Siegel:
- Website https://jeffsiegelwellness.com/
- Email: jeff@jeffsiegelwellness.com
- Instagram: @jeff.siegel.wellness
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Transcript
Introduction to Vulnerability Muscle
00:00:00
Speaker
There's a tremendous freeing energy in the surrender and asking for help, man, you know, this can kind of get us into this conversation around the some of the masks of masculinity, right? And like, it's why it's so hard for so many men to ask for help, because it appears weak, right? it Because it is it is vulnerable, right?
00:00:17
Speaker
And it goes against all of these sociocultural messages that you know, like a real man is independent, and is strong and autonomous and can do things on his own and doesn't need somebody to come, right? So like, we got unravel all of that stuff because none of us were meant to do this alone.
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the inspiring podcast challenging norms and helping you redefine vulnerability as a strength. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle dives into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues, and mindset shifts.
00:00:52
Speaker
We explore the power of vulnerability and fostering meaningful connections, healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth. Sometimes these conversations are uncomfortable, but good workouts often are.
00:01:07
Speaker
So join us and flex that vulnerability muscle. Welcome to the Vulnerability Muscle. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. In this episode, I have an amazing guest with me. His name is Jeff Siegel.
Understanding Vulnerability
00:01:19
Speaker
Jeff is a men's health coach health and wellness coach, writer, and mindfulness teacher at Harvard University. Jeff helps high-performing men break unhealthy eating patterns and build balance, resilience, and confidence in their bodies and lives.
00:01:34
Speaker
So, Jeff, this is this is so exciting to be with you right now. i think like what you did what I just read is something that I think I benefit from and also am trying to help other people with as well. And so I'm i'm super excited for this conversation. Welcome.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Reggie. I'm excited to be here and to see what what conversation unfolds. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious just how you, what your journey has looked like. But before we hop into that, i want to ask a couple of questions and it's so segment called what comes to mind.
00:02:09
Speaker
And so you let me know the first thing you think of. Great. I love it. Let's let's do this. i' I'm getting psyched. Let's go. So what comes to mind when you hear the word vulnerability? Hmm.
00:02:22
Speaker
I mean, the very first thing is like physical vulnerability. You know, I have a background in martial arts. I did karate like my whole childhood growing up. So, you know, I think about, you know, a vulnerable stance where I'm facing you, right? Like our chest is open, right? Legs are wide. Like that is vulnerable to attack.
00:02:38
Speaker
um Yet, you know, I think the ways in which we use vulnerability in conversations these days has more to do with emotional vulnerability. Right. So like I think a vulnerability really is, um you know, it's like it's it's the the willingness to take on emotional risk, right? The risk of exposing my emotional truth in the moment, right? And, you know, and with every risk, there is, you know, consequence and reward, right? Like the risk is that I you might leave myself open to being shamed, right? And like, you know, rejected and like, that can be so painful.
00:03:12
Speaker
But the reward is that it might actually deepen our connection, right? It might actually bring us closer together to a place that we hadn't even thought. So I think that's what a vulnerability brings up for me.
Relational Context of Vulnerability and Shame
00:03:22
Speaker
That's good. And I love the the what you brought up with with karate and understanding like the stance of being vulnerable.
00:03:30
Speaker
And often, like um you're if you're competing or if there's a ah time when you need to use that, there is an actual attacker that's there. ah You walking around in the stance being what it is isn't vulnerable in itself. It's when that attack is coming.
00:03:44
Speaker
And so thinking about what the environment is like... it really dictates whether or not you standing there like this is vulnerable or I'm just standing in line to get some food, you know? Yeah. So I think that's really cool. But yeah I love, I love your definition. I love what you just said about that. it was really cool. Yeah.
00:04:03
Speaker
I think that's really important. This idea that like vulnerability is relational. it is context It is contextual, right? Like vulnerability doesn't just exist in isolation. Yeah. Right. It always depends on on the the people or the person that you're with.
00:04:17
Speaker
Absolutely. I think this is getting outside of the segment, but like I think also the ah the concept of shame is that same thing. i always try to think of like if we were in a vacuum without other people or without the expectations of other folks, would we carry shame around things that happen? And I don't think that's the case. of course, we don't.
00:04:39
Speaker
get that opportunity to put ourselves in that vacuum, but it comes from relationships. It comes from expectations and what we perceive or think that other people will think and all of
Jeff's Wellness Toolkit
00:04:50
Speaker
that. yeah.
00:04:51
Speaker
yeah I love that we're we're only three minutes into this conversation and we've already hit upon shame, ah which is it's so core, man. It's so central to all this work that you do, that I do, right, that we do to try to help you know people live a better life and and be well and take better care of themselves.
00:05:09
Speaker
um And shame is just this kind of shadowy underbelly that that seeps through all of it. And especially for men, it's a really difficult thing to talk about. And yet I find that it's it's really important because if you don't ever talk about it, then you never get a chance to heal it.
00:05:24
Speaker
So true. So true. And in the sense of wellness and and bettering yourself, what are some things or what do you do to center yourself if you're feeling stressed or depressed or chaotic?
00:05:37
Speaker
Certainly, felt all those things recently, man. ah You know, I often like to talk about like having an ecology of practices or having like a wellness toolkit.
00:05:48
Speaker
So, i mean, the honest answer is I have a lot of things that I do. um you know, but I would say that probably my go to one is is taking a walk. Yeah. Right. Like the combination of of movement, of being outdoors, of breath, of change of scenery, like all of those things just provide a really nice reset.
00:06:07
Speaker
And then if I can do it in a beautiful place, ah you know, with some with some trees and some nature to connect to, um you know, that's that makes it even better. So that's, you know, that's probably my my quick answer.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, I like that. And it it combines so many of those health things. People say breath. People say nature. People say, but you're walking in nature. And then I've done EMDR and understanding the bilateral activation of right foot, left foot, right foot, left foot.
00:06:37
Speaker
That even helps to calm you and relax you. So, ooh, so good. Taking a good walk. I love that. Yeah. I mean, I know what we could probably dig into this later, but yeah, there's there's a lot going on there, both like physiologically ah you know, and bioenergetically, environmentally, like that it's it's soothing for our nervous systems, right? And I think, yeah you know, um we've lost touch with that, right? Like for most of human history, we lived outside, right? Like we lived outside and we crawled into like a cave or like a hut for like a little bit of time, right? And, you know, I think recently I read some statistic that the average American spends around 90%
00:07:14
Speaker
of their life indoors. Wow. And, you know, at first that, that kind of slapped me. you And then it like, i was like, it let it sink in. was like you know what, actually, yeah, I see that. That makes sense. Right. Like for so many of us, like spent all day inside, we walk outside for five minutes to get into the car, not even for 30 seconds to get in the car. Maybe you don't even go outside, right. You know, you go through your garage. Right. So, um, yeah, you know, and, and,
00:07:37
Speaker
and look, I live, I live up in Boston, man. The winters here suck. It's cold. Going outside. Isn't always fun, man. But like, um, I still try to do it right. Like I think, uh, a day where I don't go outside is, is a hard one for me.
00:07:51
Speaker
I love that. Thank you for that. That's a gem. What is a favorite childhood memory of yours? Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Reggie. I don't know if I've been asked that question. That's a good one.
00:08:02
Speaker
Um, Man, I feel like my memory of my childhood has been like somebody somebody took out that white out eraser and kind of like like a lot of it out, right? like And I don't know what that says about my journey. But um i have you know I have one memory. That's one of my earliest memories. i was maybe around five years old.
00:08:22
Speaker
I grew up in this apartment building in in center city, Philadelphia, like on the 30th floor, we were high up, man. We had a beautiful view of the city, ah these big windows. And I remember there was this full moon out and it was just like this big beaming full moon coming in through the window.
00:08:37
Speaker
And I kind of just felt like this like enchanted energy. And I just started like doing this goofy dancing all over the room. Just like, I don't know what anybody else was doing, but it was just like me and the moon.
00:08:49
Speaker
we're having this moment of, um and it was like really joyful, it was really playful. It was kind of silly, right? It like had all of that childhood, innocent energy that I think gets beat out of us, right? Like just by society and growing up.
00:09:03
Speaker
And so that memory I think is core to me because I always want to hold on to some of that, that
Struggles and Healing Journey
00:09:08
Speaker
part of that inner child that that remembers that joyfulness of just just dancing with the moon. Oh, that's so beautiful. I love that. That moment with me and the moon, like that, that's a book. That's a, that's a lot of things. That's so good. Like to get back connected to that inner child is so important.
00:09:27
Speaker
And you, you brought up, uh, not knowing what, how the difficulty of pulling up a ah positive memory from childhood says about your journey. Tell me a little bit about your journey. What does your journey look like, uh, from, from that moment or before and after?
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, to be frank, I had a great childhood. Like, you know, i grew up in a stable family with two parents.
00:09:53
Speaker
You know, I went to a ah ah great private school. You know, I had ah had a bunch of friends. You know, my life on paper was was everything that it should be.
00:10:04
Speaker
um And yet, you know, when I started to hit puberty, ah man, Shit got confusing. Can I say that? Yeah, definitely. pe know I think I think the you know, the combination of ah hormones kicking in.
00:10:19
Speaker
right, of now this, like, coming into high school, which is like another level of social pressure and social anxiety and, like, peer groups and, like, where do I fit in with all this? What's my identity?
00:10:29
Speaker
Struggling with that. um You know, like, this coming into relationship with my own, like, sexuality and, like, sexual desire and, like, this pressure to, like, yeah, like, be attractive or hook up a girls and, like,
00:10:44
Speaker
You know, and, and I didn't, I didn't know what to do with any of that. And, you know, to be fair, like my dad was a wonderful dad, but like, he didn't give me any guidance on, on that. Right. And like how to be a man, like how to, how to, you know, talk to women, how to, how be a sexual well being, um, you know, so there was a big vacuum there.
00:11:03
Speaker
Uh, and at that time I had an older brother, he had gone off to college. My dad was really busy with his career. So there was kind of like a vacuum in my life. I didn't have a lot of men, spent a lot of time with just me and my mom.
00:11:14
Speaker
Um, and actually I started developing an eating disorder. Uh, think as a, it was kind of a coping mechanism of dealing with a lot of this uncertainty of being this confused adolescent.
00:11:26
Speaker
And I just, you know, for whatever reason, um, you know, I kind of found food as a way to bring me some sense of control for a world that felt out of control. and, you know, I, I started, you know, counting calories and managing my eating and went down like, you know, a horrible rabbit hole where I had to actually.
00:11:42
Speaker
My parents had to pull me out of high school. I was in the hospital for a number of months. you know i had almost starved myself to death. wow I was in a pretty sad place. you know and i And I had this dual consciousness about it where like i kind of knew what was happening, but yet I felt powerless to change anything. right like And that that was so hard for me because I just wanted to be like a normal you know teenager. right like I just wanted to hang out with my boys and fit in and and do all the things.
00:12:08
Speaker
um But I couldn't. So that was really, I think, the start of my my journey. Right. And everything since then has been pulling myself out of this dark place and figuring out how, you know, how do I heal myself?
00:12:18
Speaker
How do I heal my mind and my body? Because really, I see if it as like this. My mind went to war against my body. Yeah. You know, and it's like I needed to figure out how to reconnect the two and get them working back together on the same team.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And. There was a lot of steps to that, which we can get into, right? Like, you know, this you know this there's therapeutic work, there's nutritional work, there's exercise, there's a lot of soul healing, there's a lot of having the right support system around me.
00:12:42
Speaker
um You know, you you know there's there's all these elements that I think ah helped me. um And so that, you know, kind of, I'm the the wounded warrior, now I'm out there in the world trying to help other people, ah you know, who are dealing with their own body crisis.
00:12:56
Speaker
Wow. Thank you for sharing that and being so vulnerable in that and opening up about, about you know, I think even just thinking about the puberty and all the different things that change.
00:13:09
Speaker
And it's just like so much is changing at once and you have very little control over how these things are being thrown at you, but you can't control something like how many calories am I going to eat? What am I going to eat eat or what am I not going to eat?
00:13:22
Speaker
It gives you a sense of control. And I think it's it's it's helpful to honor that that desire for that because it comes with safety and people who who may need that safety in that time of life when everything else is not in your control. And so Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. And i'm I'm sure your experience has been extremely valuable in helping other people with their issues that they're dealing with, because you have it lived you have lived experience with it.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm glad you named that word safety, right? I think that is so key, right? I mean, to to really everything in our life, when you look at all your behaviors and all your patterns, right? Like,
00:14:02
Speaker
there is this underlying drive to, to establish safety security. Right. So, you know, I think a lot of times we talk about like stress responses, you know, I kind of like to flip that script and and talk about, you know, safety styles, right. It's like my reaction to that situation, like, yeah, it was, it was, there was a stress response in my body, but ah you know, the behaviors and how I adapted my personality and my life, like, know, was really just a way to seek safety.
00:14:29
Speaker
And, you know, in that particular moment, based upon the tools and the level of thinking that I was able to do as a teenager,
Surrender and Support in Recovery
00:14:36
Speaker
right? Like, you know, as you said, yeah, it made like food made sense to me. I could control it. I can manipulate it. I could master it.
00:14:42
Speaker
Like it was my domain to to have and do whatever I want with. um But obviously there was a tremendous cost to it, right? Which I'm, yeah. Well, I'm so grateful and thankful that you are still here with us and that you've able to do some of the healing to get to the place that you're at.
00:15:00
Speaker
I'm curious what that journey looked like for you because it's hard in itself, right? there it's You choose a hard and to go on to a healing journey to be, you know, a healthier version of yourself. What did that journey look like?
00:15:17
Speaker
I think it starts with surrender.
00:15:23
Speaker
A moment that I remember was ah kind of sitting on the couch with my mom and you know, she was, she was asking me what was going on, how she can help. And, and I remember just crying. I just, I just broke down crying. Cause I was like, I want to be healthy, but I can't do this. Like, I can't do this on my own. i don't know what to do. I'm trying my best.
00:15:44
Speaker
And it was really this moment of surrendering to this fact that there was something ah bigger than myself going on here, bigger than I could handle on my own that and that I needed help. Right. So like the surrender and the acceptance of this condition, right, then opened the door for me asking for help.
00:16:01
Speaker
And then through that door came came a lot of saints and a lot of beautiful souls and a lot of supports, you know, in many shapes, you know, and and i and I see that to be true with, you know, with a lot of the guys I work with and, you know, people that have you know, been on their own recovery journeys, whether it's with, you know, alcohol or some other substance, right? Like a lot of everybody does begin with that moment of just surrendering to like, you know what, like this thing has gotten to a place where like, I can't, I can't keep operating the way I am.
Challenging Masculinity Norms
00:16:29
Speaker
Like, you know, and and I don't know what to do next until I invite in some additional support.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's so important to understand. Like when you ask, you said when you ask for help, all these saints came in. Like that is beautiful because often like I ask a lot of people like, what do you need help with right now? Because that is one of the ultimate forms of vulnerability is like saying,
00:16:52
Speaker
I can't do this on my own with my knowledge, with my resources, with whatever. And I need help to get to a place or help to feel a certain way. And to to see that in your journey, when you ask for help, the saints poured in and you got the support that you needed.
00:17:10
Speaker
and That is so beautiful. Like ask for help and surrendering. Oof, what a word. What a, what more than a word, just energy. There's so much, there's so much in that.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah. There's a tremendous freeing energy in this, in the surrender. Right. Um, ah Yeah. And asking for help, man, you know, this can kind of get us into this conversation around the some of the masks of masculinity. Right. And like, it's why it's so hard for so many men to ask for help because because it appears weak.
00:17:42
Speaker
Right. Because it is it is vulnerable. Right. And it goes against all of these sociocultural messages that, you know, like a real man is independent and is strong and autonomous and can do things on his own and doesn't need somebody to come. Right. So like.
00:17:57
Speaker
We got to we got to unravel all of that stuff. Right. Because none of us were meant to do this alone. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think that that mindset in our society? where Where do you think that comes from? What benefit do we get from making people feel like that is the way that they need to to operate?
00:18:19
Speaker
Oh man, Reggie, that's that's a big question. ah you know I mean, I'd be lying if I told you where where it came from, because I feel like this you know this this has a long history, probably through the arc of human civilization, right? And it ties into a lot of a lot of the big you know like patriarchy and capitalism and racism. like I mean, I think all of these things kind of feed into each other um you know to to create this impression of you know the right way to be a man, right? Like there is a right way and code is sort of a wrong way. And all of this is sort of invisible and it's unspoken.
00:18:56
Speaker
and Sometimes it's not, but a lot of times it is, yeah right? But it kind of lives in the background of like, yeah, like the the right way is to to figure it out on your own, right? um You know, and it's like, we're rewarded for that.
00:19:08
Speaker
And that's the thing is like, you know, it gets these sort of behaviors get rewarded at such a young age, you know? Yeah. You know, as we're growing up, you know, when we when we when we do something, um you say, oh, look at me. i' You know, i figured out on my own. oh I'm so proud of you. Like, you know, he's a strong guy. Right. Like, yeah you know, and and so like and and I think this is this this either or thinking that becomes the trap here. Right. Because, yeah of course, there's there's something.
00:19:35
Speaker
awesome about independence and about like being able to do things on your own. like I'm not trying to undermine that. I think that's great. um But it's claiming that it's like, you can't do that if you ask for help. No, you can do both at the same time. And in fact, actually, when you when you open up, right and this is a conversation I had earlier, was like it's one thing when like shit isn't going well and you need to ask somebody for help.
00:20:00
Speaker
but it's actually another thing when actually things are going well and you still ask for help. It's like saying, Hey, like I want to, I want to invite you into this thing. And like, can you help me? Can we co-create something right now? That's even better. yeah Right. It's even better than what we're doing. It's like, so when we ask people for help, we can actually build a bigger vision and that's sort of blowing the glass ceiling off the top of what's possible.
Balancing Drive and Well-Being
00:20:22
Speaker
And like, I think it's a really powerful practice and one that honestly, like I'm, I'm believe me, like I'm i'm not, I'm no master of that. Um, Yeah, I love that. And what you said about just like how it's intertwined with all of these different arcs of history and and just like big things that that have culminated into where we are today.
00:20:43
Speaker
Like it is deep. It's it's big. and And some of it is invisible. Some of it is not. It reminds me, like I went to an all boys private school that um it's it's it's in a ah wealthy part of town. It's the...
00:20:57
Speaker
the who's who's kids go to this school and um i was i was from the other side of the tracks so i like i was blessed to be able to to experience very different worlds growing up and one of the things that stands out about that experience in relation to what we're talking about was our honor code our honor system And on every assignment, we had to write, well, most assignments was just short pledge where we just signed in our name signed our name and said pledge. But on big assignments, it was, on my honor as a gentleman, I have neither given nor received aid on this work.
00:21:32
Speaker
And that was the expectation. And I think back to like, no, I fucking need help. Like, this is hard. Like this, we're doing Latin in physics and physics and high level calculus and all of this stuff. And it's like, we need help. And that's that that's phrase isn't even accurate. Like, we're getting help.
00:21:54
Speaker
And to to but to ingrain that in our heads to to say that on this work, on this journey, on in this company, in all of these areas, I'm not gotten any help.
00:22:05
Speaker
And it's just fair to anybody going through life. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, then back to that, the myth of the self-made man. Right. Like none of us are right. Like all of us got to where we are and have become who we've become because of other people.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And so, and you know, we live in such a hyper individualistic culture that we we kind of brush that aside. But yeah. Yeah. ah And keeping in line with with redefining masculinity, let's talk about like shifting from the traditional like hustle culture.
00:22:39
Speaker
Right. And what narratives that that instills in us in a healthier way of looking at being driven. hmm. Yeah, reggie yes that's a great question, you know, and and you were pointing to your experience of kind of like bridging these two worlds, which I'm honestly, ah you know, I'm sure was quite challenging for you at a lot of times, right? Having to like, you know, be in one culture at school and then another culture at home or otherwise, right?
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I know you've you've achieved a lot, right? Like for yourself now, like, you know, professionally. um And so i part of me kind of wants to like bump the question back to you. like Definitely. like you know what And then i'm I'm happy to chime in, but I'm wondering, Reggie, le what's your relationship to productivity and this sort of hustle culture and how do you balance those things in your life?
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, I love when when guests ask me questions because I rarely get to to like put my spin on things. So thank you for that. ah But I think it's shifted for me in my time, in my life, because I was ah fell in line with the The way that things are, the way that the systems are created to drive, to be the rugged individual, to to grind to the bone. And it was rewarded.
00:23:57
Speaker
We see that we see the the benefits that come from that, whether it be in school, in sports, in career and and now in business. Like and so that was the way that I operate it.
00:24:09
Speaker
until it became detrimental. And what it looked like for me was recognizing traditional success in its many forms of, you know, the status, the money, the the life um that people look at and say, that's success, the the resume, the social media, that's success.
00:24:31
Speaker
But yet I was miserable on the inside. And so today it looks a lot different where I recognize like in my body, what am I feeling?
00:24:43
Speaker
Am I satisfied? Am I fulfilled at the with the things that I am doing while I am being driven? Because like I was, I was driven for a really long time, driven to do ah accomplishment after achievement, after accolade, I was driven, but I didn't know what was driving.
00:24:59
Speaker
I had no idea what was driving. There was a lot of shame. It was a lot of trauma. And then getting the awareness around that, it's like, okay, let me make sure that I don't allow those things to be the predominant driver and to bring more awareness to my overall well-being. And that means hustle culture starts to drop. I don't work as hard as I used to. And I recognize that in myself.
00:25:23
Speaker
Sometimes I'm like, damn, I want to tap back into that, but I know what comes with that. And so, yeah, it's just trying to find success while not compromising on my overall well-being.
00:25:34
Speaker
Mm hmm. And there was so many great things you you said in that, you know, and I'll, I'll speak to one way in which I have managed it in my life, right. And this kind of comes from a lot of the kind of therapeutic work I've done, ah things like internal family systems, but like the value in naming, naming the part of you, right. So like,
00:25:56
Speaker
I actually have a relationship with this part of me. I call it productive pee. Right. um And my wife and I kind of joke about it all the time. Cause like when she catches me, like, you know, just like, you know, frantically like cleaning stuff in the kitchen, she's just like, Oh, like it's productive peed out again. I'm like, Oh yeah. Right.
00:26:14
Speaker
You know? And she goes like, are you procrastinate cleaning? Like she knows I'm avoiding something. Right. Um, And I'm just like, oh, damn shit. Like I walked into that one again. Right. So but it's really helpful to name it because when you name it, you can see it. And when you can see it, you don't have to be it. And, you know, and so it gives you a new tool to work with. Right.
00:26:35
Speaker
And so then when I began to unpack that, yeah, like Productive Pete, um as you said, like, you know, it was really good at getting shit done, you know, like great, great guy to like. you know host the party, like, oh, come over, clean your house, or get the guest list organized, right? like I mean, um you know like great guy. If you give him to-do list, like he will knock everything off there, right? So like this was a part of me, like i'm I'm not trying to get rid of him. like He has a place. But the problem is like when he becomes the only lens through which I see the world, now right everything is reduced down.
00:27:06
Speaker
to to write like to one task after another task and then it becomes as you said it becomes soulless comes lifeless you lose you lose so much because you're just always focusing on the next thing and then it's like well the journey becomes irrelevant we're like wait a second let's do a little foreground background shift here like the journey is important like this is the only moment i'm alive right now let me just take a breath all right let me let me notice how this feels um And so, yeah, and there's, know, there's more I can talk about with that around like my father and, you know, again, kind of like sort of capitalism and materialism and the ways in which those ideas were so internalized in me around like, you doing something was a measure of my worth. Right. And if I wasn't being productive, then I wasn't valuable, as you said, like that, because that's what the system, that's the system we live in. Right.
00:27:53
Speaker
um And so from a very young age, like, yeah, that got that got ingrained in me.
Impact of Father-Son Relationships
00:27:58
Speaker
Right. And so then I thought that, you know, in order to to to be valuable and also and very directly in order to, like, you know, ah get the love from my dad, like I needed to be productive and do things and be a good student and always be doing this and that. So, um you know, it's like when I see that part of myself getting all active, right, like I need to come back, as you said, like address, like, you know, that that early wounds and let that part know that like, you know, hey, I appreciate you for trying to do all these things. But like you don't you don't need to win anybody's love here.
00:28:25
Speaker
like You are loved just because you're here. Yes. Just because you are. Yes. I love that so much. like I love how you put it, name it to see it, then you don't have to be it. like like I've heard heard the the the mantra, name it to tame it. right If you name it, you tame it. and and And to be able to externalize that part of you and and put it ah like, okay, I see you.
00:28:51
Speaker
And then you befriend it, right? Like, thank you for what because you've definitely, again, going back to safety, going back to survival, like you've helped me in periods of my life where I needed that.
00:29:02
Speaker
ah But in this moment, in this day, at this present time, you're not needed. So I appreciate you, but exit stage left. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but I'm curious, like you, you mentioned, like you, you spent a lot of time with your mom growing up and, and, and what was your relationship like with your dad and what was, what was, was he working a lot? Was it like, what was that like?
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so my dad was working a lot, like he was a professor, but then his career was kind of taken off when I was a teenager and he was off giving talks and lectures and presentations and writing a book and,
00:29:39
Speaker
um just wasn't home that much. And even if he was home, he was working a lot. you know It's like only time I would see him was like dinner ma maybe. um And I knew he loved me. like he you know he he When we were together, it was always good. But um yeah, i think I think I needed more at that age than what I was getting, right?
00:30:00
Speaker
And I think that's true for for a lot of young men, you know, and i and you know I know there's a bit of a talk now of the kind of masculinity crisis and what's going on with our boys. And yeah, I mean, and a lot of the kind of statistics and data coming out is is pretty sad. um around you know young men and and and how they're showing up or or not showing up in school and their lives and suicide rates. And I mean, and there's all sorts of troubling things.
00:30:27
Speaker
And I think you know a lot of it does come from this deficit of you know just like ah good good male role models. right and like we and and And I can kind of broaden that too. like We've lost this culture of eldership and and we've lost a lot of rites of passage that were historically so important to help boys become men.
00:30:48
Speaker
And now, you know, we don't have that. So like, what do we do is, like you know, we have a lot of, you know, people in their 30s still living in the basement, playing video games, acting like a boy. Right. And I'm not here to like shame any of the, you know, if that is you, but I'm just saying that, you know, i think this it's, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility to try to, ah yeah, figure out what do you need? What do you need that you didn't get? That's going to help you mature.
00:31:12
Speaker
hmm. What do you need that you didn't get? think that is a question. If if you took it take anything from this episode, like write that down and seriously ponder that.
00:31:24
Speaker
I think we don't we don't give our we don't we don't have enough time. We're not afforded enough time to really sit back and reflect a lot of times because of that hustle culture and capitalism and 24-7 go.
00:31:36
Speaker
But give yourself time to reflect on that. What do you need that you didn't get? And you know our stories are so different um in many ways, but they're commonalities. And i my dad was not in my my life and for different reasons. My dad...
00:31:54
Speaker
was in the streets and then my dad was in prison. And and yet ah longing for that attention, it, as a boy growing up, like you felt some of the things that I felt, right? We felt some of the same same things, even though our dads were in totally different areas and of life.
00:32:10
Speaker
And it's, it, it has an impact on us. We, we, we long for that attention. We long for that, that positive male role model in our lives. And it turns, it shows up and behavior it shows up in so many different ways and like i i did a i did a talk not too long ago with a group of of fathers just fathers at a school and it was about presence over perfection right like like your kid is not gonna understand especially at certain ages
00:32:42
Speaker
How much money you're bringing home, how much like, you know, what your status is at work or like the they're not going to understand that stuff. And you can try to be perfect in all those things to provide for the family, like honorable. Great.
00:32:55
Speaker
But they need your presence and your loving presence. And so it's it's it's hard when there are because they're getting that message, too. I got to go do this. I got to go do this. I got to work. I got to do.
00:33:07
Speaker
And it, but, but I think presence and and showing up consistently and lovingly is what many of us didn't get. and and it leaves us lost and and we're searching for validation in other forms and it just, it's hard.
Ending Relationships and Boundaries
00:33:24
Speaker
It's hard.
00:33:25
Speaker
So, uh, man, um just got emotional. I know. um Thank you for sharing that, man. I know. do you, do you and your father have a relationship now?
00:33:35
Speaker
No, no. We had one. We had one for a while. i love this. Thank you for asking me questions. ah We had one for, I would say about a decade, about 10 years um in my early adulthood.
00:33:48
Speaker
And it was, it was more, it wasn't as much of a father-son relationship, more like a brother-to-brother relationship. So he was, he, he was my big brother and, uh, and we were really close, really tight, but then spoiler alert, if you read, if you haven't read my book, um, but like, it just, it didn't end out.
00:34:08
Speaker
It didn't end that way. um And I don't know, I still leave hope for for things to change, but um talk, you know, boundaries and peace and understanding safety um at this current moment.
00:34:21
Speaker
and That relationship doesn't bring that for me. And so it's a huge boundary in place there. Yeah. Yeah. um I feel like there's a lot to talk about there, too. Right. like Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
That's another thing that our culture really sucks at is like telling, teaching and modeling how to ah consciously and compassionately end a relationship.
00:34:44
Speaker
That's huge. Have you ever had an opportunity to do that? Oh, man. It's funny you ask. It's actually been kind of top of mind recently. Like I have a buddy that I've known for, you know, decades and and he, has just become very, very difficult to be friends with.
00:35:04
Speaker
um And it's been, it's been rocky and on and off and, um And I don't need to get into all the details. Like, you know, I think he needs some some some real kind of he's got some mental health challenges. I think he needs help. He kind of refuses to get help.
00:35:17
Speaker
But, um you know, it's reached a point where I'm like, I don't know if we can continue being friends until you until you get help. Right. So you like if you unless you show up differently. Right. Like this is not working.
00:35:28
Speaker
right um and i say that with so much love because i want what's best for him um right but like you know i can't have somebody coming into my life and my family and just act in a fool and being destructive and chaotic like you know that's just not the sort of energy i'm trying to invite into my home right so yeah that's the boundaries yeah it's huge and and and we we need boundaries in in all aspects of life whether it be work whether it be home and in that I want to, I want to, so you have a, you have a master's in my mind and brain education from Harvard and a master's in Buddhist studies from Hong Kong university.
00:36:05
Speaker
Amazing. Like, wow. Uh, tell me what the, what the journey was to getting to that place in your educational journey and what you learned about those, those studies.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I kind of smile and laugh to myself when when I hear you say that, because I'm just like, yeah, like, how the hell does that compute? right like ah Buddhism,
Jeff's Spiritual Journey
00:36:28
Speaker
mind, brain education.
00:36:30
Speaker
um you know I kind of joke that I'm thoroughly overeducated, right? And it it comes with ah the occupational hazard of having your head up in the stars and you know you forget to look down to see whether your shoelace is untied, right? And then you each trip all over yourself. So um I always try to, you know, I think that's that's been a real theme in in my journey, right? Of like, I love academia and, you know, big picture thinking and these sort of like big intellectual ideas.
00:36:59
Speaker
um But for me, the um the important piece has always been the embodiment, right? Like, how do I bring it back into my body? Because that's where it lives. That's where I'm going to express it, right? that's where That's where it all integrates. You know, that's where my journey started with with my own body. So,
00:37:15
Speaker
Um, yeah, you know, the, the, The real kind of two short story on it was i had graduated from college with a plan to go to medical school. like I really liked science and really, you know again, understanding the human body and what made it work and what made it healthy, what made it unhealthy.
00:37:33
Speaker
But um I was also very disillusioned by the rat race of American culture. And I was like, I don't want to get caught up in this test taking and then the grind of medical school and then the the whole like just earning money to buy a big house, you know, sort of script. So um i I actually bounced out. I moved to Malaysia.
00:37:53
Speaker
I lived in Malaysia for a year. Then I lived in Hong Kong for four years. And when I was in Hong Kong, I did that master's in Buddhist studies. And I was really, i think, just searching for something spiritual, right, to to nurture my soul and my heart in a way that I didn't get back at home.
00:38:08
Speaker
Right. Like, you know, i got a lot of the Western scientific view of the world, which was great. But I was like, it can't, um you know, it can't all just be about neurotransmitters, right? Like there's something else here.
00:38:19
Speaker
So, um you know, that's when I really got deeply interested in Eastern spiritual practices and, and you know, what is what are non-dual states of consciousness and what is the Tao and how do we live? Let's go into that. Let's go into that. Explain that, the non-dual states. I love that.
00:38:39
Speaker
ah well, the Tao, which can be spoken, right, is not the actual Tao. You know, that's sort of the irony of like, you can't you can't really put language where we we run up against the limitations of words here to explain these experiences that really transcend our normal everyday waking consciousness.
00:38:57
Speaker
And um so, but, you know, and and I think these sort of experiences are are actually... Pretty, pretty common, but I think it's, again, they're, they're hard to talk about one, cause we don't the language too, because again, our culture doesn't really support that. Right. Like, right you, you know, the people that think like you're crazy or you're on a bunch of drugs or, you know, I mean, and maybe it's a little bit of both, but like it, it you know, it, it kind of brings us back into relationship with the, the magic and the mysteriousness of this world that we're in, which I think again, we've, we've kind of, you know, we've lost so much of that. Everything is just materialism and, and, you know, and,
00:39:32
Speaker
And, you know, so when I wake up in the morning and when my heart starts to feel kind of empty, you know, i think that's because I've gotten too sucked into the materialism. And it's like there's something calling me back into like, what is this spiritual other higher, you know, dimension yeah to our being?
Materialism vs Spiritual Fulfillment
00:39:52
Speaker
Right. Yeah.
00:39:54
Speaker
And, know, again, I mean, also, you know, i mean, religion has sort of decayed over the last few decades, although it's coming back. I mean, it's like there's different ways in which people access this. But um it's it's hard because it's not something that we typically talk about.
00:40:06
Speaker
Especially, yeah again again, like guys aren't sitting around talking about their spiritual journeys very often. Right. But like, I kind of wish they were because like, that's the stuff that's that like, that's what brings the real meaning, man. Like, yeah, yeah like,
00:40:22
Speaker
I love that. It's about me, but it's about so much more. I want to hear. I want to hear about that. Right. It's so much bigger than us. And I have found that that Eastern culture and spirituality, I like love seeing Buddhist studies because I mean, I i went to Thailand.
00:40:42
Speaker
what, two years ago now? And it was one of the most peaceful experiences that I've ever had in life. Like, I don't think my body has felt that amount of peace in the States ever, right? And so being in that culture for the first time and the only time to this day, but I'm i'm going back. And it's just like the ways in which they live, like it it is... it is is totally different. Like the values and the the things that are prioritized are that of well-being, are that of peace, are that of presence. And it just, I mean, I remember just the first person I saw napping in the middle of the day while work working, like like it just, it's things are different.
00:41:27
Speaker
And to connect it deeper of, you know, like me and you and the squirrel, like we are one. Like we're all connected. When you understand that, that there is water and there is there is this energy that is flowing and it doesn't ever get destroyed and it's all connected. Like it ah really, now we're going to start sounding crazy to people. so no yeah but I we can go there, Reggie, man. and Like, yeah, like ah go all the way back. We're just, we're just stardust, man, that have been on the scene.
00:41:56
Speaker
are. incredibly wild, insane journey over billions and billions of years to somehow organize ourselves into this thing that we call like a human being. And it's yeah absolutely wild.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and so I think, yeah, just the fact that we can step back and take that view and again, just like it just helps ground this moment a little bit differently. Right. And it's like, put things into a different perspective.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah. you know, because it's easy. I find that, you know, most of the stress and the worry and anxiety like comes because we get so hyper focused, right? On, on this, like our one tiny individual little sliver of the world and our tiny little individual problems that we think are, you know, the biggest things ever.
00:42:40
Speaker
And like, yeah, like on one level, like um I don't want to minimize those individual issues, but like, again, we want to hold this bigger picture of like, oh yeah, like yeah, there's, there's a lot more going
Mindfulness in Corporate Culture
00:42:50
Speaker
on here. Right. And life will continue on way after we do, and it's been here and it's going to change forms and, um, and accepting that there is, again, I think that, you know, one of the biggest important pieces of Buddhism is, is really not trying to get rid of the suffering, right? Like accepting that, right? Like life, life is really hard.
00:43:09
Speaker
Life is can be a total shit and unsatisfactory. And, um, Instead of trying to run away from it, which I think our kind of consumerist culture tends to do, kind of put up this veil that like, well, if we just buy more things and possess more stuff and collect more degrees and get paid more, then all the suffering will go away. Like, no, like the suffering is going to follow you. Right.
00:43:34
Speaker
It's still there. That's so true. I'm curious what your thoughts are as it relates to like kind of our our conversation around ah the hustle culture and masculinity and like redefining those things. But how does that, is there a role for that in corporate world, in corporate culture, in a capitalistic society? Like, is there a way to reduce the stress and everything that comes with hustle culture and this flawed view that we have of masculinity?
00:44:04
Speaker
in the world today?
00:44:08
Speaker
i mean, I think you're asking an an interesting question here. And I'm not sure if I totally graphed like the the parts of it yeah around. is where Is there a role? let's let's listen let Let me limit it to let's call it co corporate culture in work environments.
00:44:23
Speaker
Is there a role to tame the hustle culture in corporate environments that still benefits that environment? Yeah. Ooh. Let me, so let me share some personal examples, right? Like I have gone into corporations, right?
00:44:38
Speaker
They have hired me, um, to teach mindfulness, right. To, to their employees as, as kind of like a wellness benefit. Um, you know, and, and I've gone in there and we've done workshops, right. And we've, we've done all different sorts of, you know, meditative techniques and breath work and, and some mindful movement and, you know, um,
00:44:59
Speaker
But it it got to a point, you know, with ah specifically, I'm umm um um thinking of one, you know, example where it was like, I actually had to sever that, that contract and relationship is like, because I was saying i's like, I don't want to be coming in here to just try to write it sort of the opiate of the masses, right? Like, I'm not here to just, yeah, right. Like to just like get your employees to calm down.
00:45:20
Speaker
So they can be slaves at the desk for another 12 hours, right? Like, because they're like, if your company culture is so toxic, then like no amount of mindfulness, no amount of like, breathing is going to help over overcome that, right? Like, yeah, I mean, it might help a little bit, of course.
00:45:36
Speaker
um But like, there are, you know, like, there are larger structural issues that really, we like, we need to address that, right? So um and and and the flip side, i have seen companies that actually, honestly, like, they really do care about their employees' well being, right? Like,
00:45:51
Speaker
You know, like they give employees lots of time off. Like they have really good like maternal and paternal leads, which is just a huge thing like for new parents, right? Like they offer a lot of benefits, like you know They have good boundaries around you know not sending and checking emails in the middle of the night. right like there's there is a you know There's a code of respect to from how bosses interact with their and you know therere theyre underling you know people so that you know it it feels like there isn't this like oppressive power over.
00:46:19
Speaker
right like I think there are ways you can set up companies that obviously support well-being, but like that has to be ingrained in the DNA of of the the business. It absolutely it has to be pervasive. It can't be like you said, like this, this one off initiative over here that lives in the silo.
00:46:36
Speaker
And that's one of the things I ask, like when when I go to speak or go work with companies or organizations, it's like, it's like, I am, I recognize that I am one pillar to, to a a well wellness approach or whatever it is.
00:46:49
Speaker
but what else are you doing to signify to your employees, to show that the culture has shifted or is what it is around wellbeing? Because if it's just one conference a year and that's it, and there's no other talk around it, then you're, you're not doing the work that you think you're doing.
00:47:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome, man. I mean, and that takes courage to do that. Right. And it's like, it does, it's not easy. Right. Especially like if somebody is paying you to do something. Right. And I think a lot of times,
00:47:18
Speaker
ah we bend, you know, and I'll speak for myself. Right. And like, you know, this is one of my fears, I think, of being hypocritical, right. And saying that I stand for all these things, yet, you know, I'm willing to compromise my values because I'm getting a nice paycheck for it. Right.
00:47:34
Speaker
um You know, it's and this is the challenge like whenever we push back against syn systems, it's going to be uncomfortable. And there are times like the system will retaliate. Right. Like, i mean, you know, there's there's real risks with that. So,
Importance of Slowing Down
00:47:47
Speaker
yeah. um Yeah, like that's that's what it takes to be kind of a ah wellness, you know, renegade.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I like that. The wellness renegade. Yeah. It's so true, though, because because there are there and it's it's it starts off subtly. And there are these moments where you have a decision to make.
00:48:06
Speaker
Right. You recognize that that's something that this company or this organization needs. stands for or doesn't stand for, and it doesn't align with what you your your values are.
00:48:18
Speaker
And you can accept that or you can not. You can address it or you can not. and And that starts to creep up. And if you do that more times times than not, like when when you deviate from the standard enough times, the standard changes.
00:48:30
Speaker
Like your values have changed at that point. And you have to reevaluate what your values actually are, if that's what you're willing to accept. And it's it's hard, ah especially when you're... so I can't believe you came back from from Hong Kong and Malaysia. like honest like But when you're in America and that is the system and you have to live in that system, work in that system, it's hard because you you have to pay the bills and you have to you know conform in a way.
00:48:58
Speaker
so Yeah. me it's It's really hard. you know and i you know I've kind of chosen this route of you know entrepreneurship, solopreneurship, right? Like to kind of you know exit out of that system as much as I can, but I'm still beholden to it, right? In other ways, um right? And complicit in it. And yeah, I think you're pointing to an important piece, right? This tension between sort of, you know, like individual change and collective or, you know, structural change.
00:49:24
Speaker
um And, you know, sometimes it really is just bottom up, right? Like one person said, you know what? I... um I'm not going to tolerate this anymore. Right. And I'm going to push up against the status quo.
00:49:37
Speaker
Right. And then you get enough people doing that and the status quo changes. Right. And yeah there are other times where it needs to come from the top down. Right. And whoever that person is in charge or making the rules. Right. ah Yeah. Actually, you know, so set things up in a way that actually is is supporting justice. Right. And and in humanity Yeah, I would be remiss if I had this this Harvard educated person on mindfulness not to give us some tools and tips around building mindfulness and resilience in our own life.
00:50:10
Speaker
Can you can you give us some some things that people can practically apply to their lives to to help them in that regard? Yeah, we can do it right now. Right. Just let's do take it. see Just take a breath in.
00:50:23
Speaker
right. And I want you just to hold that breath at the top for a second.
00:50:28
Speaker
And just let it out with a sigh. yeah
00:50:34
Speaker
Great. We're going to do that two more times. And all I want you to do is each time just make the exhale a little bit longer. So number two, give it a try. Breathe it in.
00:50:44
Speaker
Just hold that breath. Feel that fullness. And then big sigh.
00:50:50
Speaker
Even more, just going a little bit longer than you normally would.
00:50:55
Speaker
And then one more time. And remember, there is no rush. We're not trying to get through this breath. Like just just be in in this moment of breathing. So
00:51:05
Speaker
feel your lungs, feel your body from the inside out, feel your weight, and then let it go. And if there's anything else you want to let go right now, just like you're giving your body, you're giving your mind's permission to just release.
00:51:25
Speaker
I love it. I love it.
00:51:29
Speaker
I love what you said. Not rushing that breath. Not rushing that day. Not rushing that moment. Not rushing through life. Like I, the phrase, I'm trying to eliminate the phrase I can't wait for because I can and I, and I should live all the moments of life in between now and whatever that moment is in the future.
00:51:56
Speaker
And i love what you said. Just don't rush, rush that breath. I got to remind myself of that in a yoga class because sometimes, you know, when you're being instructed, you want to keep up with the pace, but my breath is deep. My breath is long. It didn't always, it wasn't always that way.
00:52:12
Speaker
Like when I was still in survival, it was very short, very choppy. Couldn't take deep breaths, but now it's very long. And if I'm moving breath to movement, I have to elongate that, that hold, that pause, that whatever. And,
00:52:27
Speaker
And sometimes I find myself cutting my breath short, but thank you for that reminder. That was good. You're welcome. Thank you for that example. And I mean, slowing down is one of the most important and and really kind of like radical things, right? Because like we live in a culture, right? That is, it's speed up, right? Urgency, scarcity, go faster, right? Like do more.
00:52:52
Speaker
So in many ways, the slowing down, right? Is like a counter-cultural act. Yeah. It's saying like, hold on a second. Yeah. Like what are we all rushing towards? Our own death? Right. Like, right um yeah, it's so true. It's, it's one of the things I've, I, I, it frustrates me, but I also appreciate it in my friends who are like from the islands. Cause when you're on Island time, there's like nothing that I'm rushing toward. They just, and so like, we got 12 o'clock lunch. Like where you at? It's one o'clock. And you're like, Hey, I just got here. And it's like,
00:53:25
Speaker
But it's a beautiful thing because they're not they're not rushing through life and that is ah built into their culture. um It's hard when you try to adapt that to what we are experiencing and used to.
00:53:37
Speaker
um But there is a beauty in that, too. so Yeah, I mean, i love i love that example of i mean, dude, I'm a total beach bum at heart, man. I love I love island life. As you said, I love Thailand yeah all those reasons. um Yeah. You know, and and I think that's, you know, our relationship to time.
00:53:54
Speaker
is another thing that's really important here. Right. And like that gets that comes out and kind of slaps you in the face when you when you leave the US, you travel somewhere else and you see you know, like, oh, these people aren't checking their calendar because they got an appointment in 35 minutes, right? It's like their their life isn't, you know, hour by hour blocked off and scheduled, you know, like, i mean, yeah yet that is the reality for so many of us these days, myself included, right? And so it's just like reclaiming this more natural, easeful relationship to time where it's like,
00:54:30
Speaker
you know there's There's morning, there's afternoon, right? It's solar time, right? like it It passes, but it's not in or it it it doesn't move any faster any slower than it needs to. it just there's you know And that's, I think um there's something yeah which kind of will go full circle.
00:54:45
Speaker
I think that gets lost in part because we're not outside. Yeah. Yeah. Right? like So yeah we're stuck inside with these artificial lights. We're on this artificial time. like everything about the way we're living right like is kind of artificial and that creates a lot of distress and dis-ease right and so if we're talking about well-being right it makes sense to like okay like we gotta we gotta think about how how we're relating to time i love that give give give the listeners a call to action i think there's something there give a if they're listening to this there's something that they could do to help their well-being what is that one thing they maybe can try
00:55:25
Speaker
I mean, the one thing I just said was was slowing down. i think making a choice to slow down even just some part of your day, right? Especially if you notice you're the type of person that is always kind of trying to get to the next thing, as you said, or like your mind is always jumping ahead to the next thing, to the next thing. You're forgetting to live in the moment, right? When we slow down.
00:55:47
Speaker
we can begin to notice more. we can And um when we notice more, like you know there's there can be a lot more that we're missing. yeah right And it's like, get you know i don't want to miss out on this this precious life that I have. right you know and you know and And now to be fair, there are times though, where slowing down is really hard because we don't want to get present with
Mindfulness Breathing Exercise
00:56:08
Speaker
ourselves.
00:56:08
Speaker
And this goes back to some of the hard things, I think, for men, right like the ability just to kind of sit you know, to sit even just for 10 minutes in silence without distraction.
00:56:20
Speaker
I mean, most most men, most people, right, these days is just going to reach for their phone the second they feel bored or uncomfortable. right But it's like we need to train ourselves. We need to train our mind to just learn to slow down and to sit.
00:56:33
Speaker
And even if it's uncomfortable, to not run away from that. yeah That's where a tremendous amount of strength and resilience comes from. um And so like, that's how we're kind of bringing all of these things together, like right, slowing down mindfulness, well being, like, what does it mean to be a man or like, I mean, I think sitting in silence for 10 minutes without distraction is an incredible skill to be able to build.
00:56:57
Speaker
ah I love that. I love that. Sit in silence for 10 minutes. Avoid the distractions. ah There's so many. Avoid Avoid the phone, the TV, the social media, the ah phone, all of it.
00:57:10
Speaker
like And sit with yourself. Sit with your thoughts. If it's uncomfortable, there's growth there. There's growth to be had there. Yeah. um Man, I could talk to you all day long, Jeff, but before we close out, I got a segment called fill in the blank. And so for again, similar to the first thing that comes to mind, but vulnerability makes me feel b blank.
00:57:34
Speaker
Vulnerability makes me feel alive. love that. My biggest strength or superpower is blank.
00:57:45
Speaker
Hmm. My biggest strength or superpower is helping heal the mind-body connection. Yes.
00:57:56
Speaker
I need help with blank.
00:58:01
Speaker
I need help uplifting and empowering other men to to do the work and becoming the best version of themselves. Let's go. Let's go. We're recruiting, y'all. We need more.
00:58:14
Speaker
If I could tell my younger self one thing, it would be blank. Yeah, if I could tell my younger self one thing, it would be I'm here for you.
00:58:25
Speaker
um I'm here for you. and And there's nothing you need to be that you aren't already are, right, to to win approval. so So, that yeah. ah I love that.
00:58:39
Speaker
I love that so much. Wow. I'm going just sit with that for a little bit. and Thank you. And the last one is, when I need inspiration, I turn to blank.
00:58:53
Speaker
two things that come to mind. The first one is trees. um i love I love watching trees blow in the wind. i love I love sitting under a tree. I love you know i mean, I feel like just trees are wise beyond our ability to understand.
00:59:09
Speaker
um And then the second thing is podcasts. Podcasts like this one. ah you know I've got a few of my favorites, but like you know yeah, those those are Those are like my teachers, my guides. You know, I come back to certain voices over and over, like when I need that perspective or that of grounding, because, you know, we live in a beautiful world. We have so much of this stuff available. So it's just like, yeah, finding finding the right voices.
00:59:35
Speaker
I love that. I want to know because I i mean, to tap into the some of the things that your brain is consuming, what are some of those podcasts? Yeah, I mean, a few the good ones that I return to often like ah Paul Cech.
00:59:48
Speaker
If you heard, he's a incredible healer, kind of wellness master. He's got a podcast called Living 4D. um That, you know, tons of awesome information there. Really great teacher.
01:00:02
Speaker
Another one, Carolyn Miss, she talks a lot about archetypes and kind of the the anatomy of our spirit and kind of how do we how do we heal at the physical and the energetic level?
01:00:14
Speaker
um You know, she's she's somebody I come back to a lot because I just love her, her perspective and insight. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Oh man, Jeff, this has been amazing. And I am so
Final Thoughts on Embracing Vulnerability
01:00:27
Speaker
appreciative. i feel like we're just scratching the surface and there's so much more we could talk about for days at a time. And so, but are there any final thoughts, any, any last thing you want to leave the audience?
01:00:41
Speaker
Reggie, I'm so glad we got to have this conversation, man. You know, it's like, We come on and, you know, we've we've never ah you know had any prior relationship. for and But I could tell, like, yeah, this was great.
01:00:53
Speaker
I agree. It would be fun to, I want to just, like, hang out for the weekend and geek out on some of this stuff. So, you know, yeah, we need to we need to run some event, you know, and get people together. Maybe that's the next step.
01:01:04
Speaker
I like it. We're going make that happen. oh It's out there. It's going to happen, y'all. I appreciate it. ah Jeff, how can people contact you if they want to work with you, if they want to learn more about your work? Yeah, just visit my website, Jeff Siegel Wellness. I tried to make it super, super easy to find me. It's just like my name, Jeff Siegel Wellness. You can Google it or, you know.
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's the easiest thing. I got a ton of like. resources on there um that hopefully can help you take that one next step on your journey. um And please shoot me an email. right like I want to hear from you. I want to connect. like you know um I'm here to to be a helper, to giver, to be service.
01:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Oh, Jeff, I appreciate you so much, brother. And we're going to make that happen. With all the things that you could be doing and all the places you could be, i appreciate you being here with me embracing vulnerability.
01:01:59
Speaker
Thank you, Reggie. It's ah it's a pleasure. Thank you for joining us in another episode of Vulnerability Muscle. If you've enjoyed these conversations around vulnerability, please consider leaving a review.
01:02:10
Speaker
Your feedback not only motivates us to continue to do the work that we do, but it allows other people to witness the power of vulnerability. Share your thoughts. on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, or wherever you're listening from.
01:02:26
Speaker
And don't forget to spread the word. You can follow us at vulnerabilitymuscle on Instagram and me personally at Reggie D. Ford across all platforms. Visit vulnerabilitymuscle.com for additional resources and support.
01:02:40
Speaker
And remember, embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness. It is the source of your greatest strength. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but most workouts are.
01:02:50
Speaker
So keep flexing that vulnerability muscle.