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045 - The Brown Mama Bear: Advocating for Black Children in Predominantly White Schools
16 Plays1 month ago
"Let the hard things in life be fractions—not racism."
In this powerful episode of Vulnerability Muscle, Reggie D. Ford sits down with Shanera Williamson, host of the Brown Mama Bear podcast, for a deeply moving and necessary conversation about raising Black children in predominantly white schools, reclaiming generational stories, and the spiritual responsibility of parenting with presence, identity, and intention. Shanera shares raw reflections on the intergenerational trauma passed down from a grandfather who survived the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, her own navigation of private Christian schools built on segregationist foundations, and the pain of realizing she once unknowingly prioritized academic prestige over her daughters’ emotional well-being.
With grace and accountability, she details how apologizing to her children for past decisions deepened their relationship and empowered them to thrive—and how now, as a fierce advocate, she equips other mothers to do the same. If you've ever questioned how to raise whole, resilient children in a fractured society, this conversation will meet you where you are and lovingly challenge you to go further.
Call to Action:
This is more than a parenting episode—it’s a blueprint for legacy. Tune in now to hear Shanera’s five-step plan for raising racially conscious, emotionally grounded kids, and why she believes mothers can dismantle racism just like they changed drunk driving laws. Share this episode with a parent, educator, or advocate who needs it—and flex your vulnerability muscle with us.
Contact Info:
Guest – Shanera Williamson
Website: https://brownmamabear.com
Instagram: @brownmamabearpodcast
Email: shanera@brownmamabear.com
Host – Reggie D. Ford
Website: https://reggiedford.com
Socials: @reggiedford on all platforms
Key Quotes & Takeaways:
- “Let the hard things in life be fractions—not racism.”
- “I apologized to my daughters for the harm caused by choosing prestige over protection. That apology changed everything.”
- “My grandfather survived a massacre by hiding in a cemetery. I honor him by helping other mothers protect their children from invisible violence.”
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Vulnerability Muscle'
00:00:00
Speaker
Sometimes people get it twisted and they think that I just want to wrap my kids up in bubble wrap or encourage others to do the same. That is exactly the opposite of what I want. I believe our children need to have some difficult things in their life in order to grow.
00:00:14
Speaker
But let's let the difficulties be fractions. Let's let the difficulties be conjugating verbs in another language. The things that will that are difficult that they have to rise to the occasion to do.
00:00:26
Speaker
But racism should not be one of them. Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the inspiring podcast challenging norms and helping you redefine vulnerability as a strength.
00:00:37
Speaker
um' your host, Reggie D. Ford. Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle dives into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues, and mindset shifts. We explore the power of vulnerability and fostering meaningful connections.
00:00:52
Speaker
healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth. Sometimes these conversations are uncomfortable, but good workouts often are. So join us and flex that vulnerability muscle.
00:01:05
Speaker
Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle.
Insights on Motherhood and Safe Environments
00:01:07
Speaker
I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. And today I have with me Shannira Williamson. She is the host, the creator of the Brown Mama Bear podcast, which she founded after her daughter went to or went off to college. And then ah she's also had a background in radio. She's a speaker. She's a motivator, inspiring person who is out here helping mothers and helping educators redefine what it looks like to raise and but to have environments safe.
00:01:37
Speaker
and great for our kids to come up in. And so I'm excited to have this conversation with you. How you doing? Thank you so much. I'm wonderful. I'm so glad to be here in your space. Oh, man. This is our space. This is our space. Well, I get to share time and space with you. i appreciate the work you do. So thanks for having me. Thank you.
Detaching from Children's Challenges
00:01:56
Speaker
Thank you. How is your heart today? are you feeling?
00:01:59
Speaker
Thank you for asking that. um I'm actually good today. yeah I'm really good. um There are so many times in um the mom's life that you can be as good as the worst of your children.
00:02:12
Speaker
And so I have learned how to detach and separate that from what's going on with my kids. And what I found is even as they are adults and don't live in my home anymore, I still care. Yeah. The umbilical cord got cut a long time ago, but I'm still connected. um so so i hate saying they're good and I'm good, but everybody's good. yeah ok well I want to be good regardless. yes no like mean but that's That's the brown bear right? Before we get deeper into the story, into talking, I got a couple of questions that I ask. It's the first thing that comes to mind. ok And so the first one is social issue what comes to mind when you hear the word
Vulnerability as Empowerment
00:02:57
Speaker
vulnerability? or the power of Okay, first thing I think of is scary. Mm-hmm.
00:03:02
Speaker
you um Vulnerability feels like I am going to times these some way can do something that feels like I'm disrobing and not quite sure if the other person is going to do it. f like And then and you add the layer of my lived experience as a black woman in the U.S.
00:03:20
Speaker
Vulnerability can be um unsafe sometimes. And there have been times when I have been very real and candid and it came back to bite me. yes Vulnerability feels scary.
00:03:34
Speaker
Doesn't mean I'm not willing to do it. But I've got to make sure I'm in a safe space before I'm willing to. Absolutely. And I hope that this space and that our space that we share together is it feels safe for you. And if it does feel scary at any moment, at any time that you know that you have the power to stop it, shut it down and pivot or do whatever you need to take of yourself. Thank you much. I appreciate that. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Coloring as a Decompression Tool
00:04:03
Speaker
What do you do to decompress or center yourself if you're feeling stressed or overwhelmed or maybe even depressed? Okay. The funny thing is I've been doing this since I was a child and I didn't realize it was a strategy to decompress. I like to color.
00:04:20
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that's so good. And when my kids were little, I don't mean adult coloring books. I mean c Crayola crayons. Yes. I like them nicely sharpened. Yes. And I used to finish off my kids coloring books when they would go to bed at night.
00:04:35
Speaker
They would wake up like, Mom!
00:04:38
Speaker
I got a recent set of like coloring but adult coloring books, because that was where I shopped for them. But ah the crayons that came in the pack with them are not the same crayons. You got to get the right crayons. Because if it doesn't
Perfectionism and Childhood Reflections
00:04:52
Speaker
sound... it just makes my flesh crawl yeah yeah yeah but i have a story about coloring because this goes back to my childhood and my mom is loves to color too and it was great and it was like everything was perfect on her paper and so it had to be perfect on my paper and i doing some inner child work inner child healing i one thing i wanted to reclaim was the ability to be a child and color like a child colors
00:05:20
Speaker
And so i got a cut I got the coloring book. I got all this stuff. And the first thing I noticed was that even the way that I sat in my seat changed. Like everything altered. So I was oh and it's like, oh, my God. I like flashback to like this is how I had to color because everything had to go in the same direction. Like kind of these wood panels. Everything had to go in the same direction.
00:05:41
Speaker
Everything had to be outlined in black. It was like. Yes. And I was like, oh, let me just. And so I just like. went crazy for you and the unicorn had green hair pink yes and this and it was crazy and so okay can i speak to you inner child reggie please please i am sure your mom had no idea what her perfectionism was that was being passed down to you.
00:06:07
Speaker
um And so I just want to see him say, you know what? Be as messy as you need to be. Creativity can be messy. Thank you. And as a mom who did the similar thing, i was so busy outlining and then coloring in and and having it all go the same way, like vacuum cleaner lines.
00:06:27
Speaker
I had no idea that that was... Saying something to my children. i had no idea they were picking up on that. yeah And so my oldest, who just is naturally compliant, thought it was the right way. So even without words being spoken. yeah yeah um And I wonder sometimes what that means for us as adults.
00:06:49
Speaker
You know, what was the mom... dealing with in her life and what did i was was I dealing with in my life at that time. And I don't know her story, but I know for me, that feeling of you always have to be buttoned up.
00:07:01
Speaker
You always have to have your stuff together. yeah You have to be twice as good in order to even get half of a chance. That that is part of our trauma. absolutely And that is so something we bring into the parenting experience. Absolutely. Wow.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It has been an experience and I've got gained a A ton of grace around it, but I was like, oh, my God, it just and straight fit in that position. Oh, man.
00:07:27
Speaker
as All right. That was a derail, but great one. What is one of your favorite childhood memories from your childhood?
Memories with Grandfather
00:07:34
Speaker
um what is one of your favorite childhood memories from your childhood One of my favorite childhood memories is spending time with my grandfather.
00:07:43
Speaker
So I grew up in Baltimore, Maryland. It was about an eight-hour drive to get to my grandparents in Wilmington, North Carolina. My granddaddy was the most fun person.
00:07:53
Speaker
He would, every day that I stayed with them, i would I would stay a whole week in their home. He would get up in the morning. He had the same breakfast every morning. He had Rice Krispies, and he would put ah sweetened milk in it, like from the can. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And as they would crackle and pop, I would sit there and just spend time with him. Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
He was also the kind of man who just was very disciplined. And so he would say, sit right here while I read my Bible and then we will play. And so I can just remember playing jacks or something, sitting at his feet while he was in his red rocking chair. was about 45 minutes to read his Bible, and then he would play with me. wow But I remember feeling loved in his presence.
00:08:37
Speaker
He didn't have a lot of money, he didn't have a but he always had candy that he'd pull out his pocket and give me. um And he I didn't realize that my quality quality time was my love language. you know As a child, I didn't know that.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I think i so all children have that as one of them. Absolutely. But it is to this day. And that was the first man who spent quality time with me.
00:09:00
Speaker
And it did so much to make me feel secure. um So i just remember putting my little hand in his hand. and yeah We'd go take a walk. Fun story, though. This interesting
Grandfather's Behavior and Racial Divides
00:09:10
Speaker
fact.
00:09:10
Speaker
He was the first person who also instilled faith in me. So as we were walking along, ah he lived in what was segregated Wilmington, and that's where still lived. So in his neighborhood, he was known, and he would talk to everyone.
00:09:24
Speaker
I thought he was the mayor. Hey, sister, so-and-so, what's up? And then as we would walk, he was on 11th Street. We would walk to 1st Street. That's where it changed, and it was almost I could tell the difference in his posture And his eyes would go down and he wouldn't look white people in the eye.
00:09:43
Speaker
And so I do remember that as well. And then as we would come back, ah he always smoked a cigar. And I remember the smell of the cigars. And he came back to life when we were in his neighborhood.
00:09:55
Speaker
Wow. to this day, he passed away on September 10th, 1980. Every September 10th, I think of him. So if I just told you that, 1980... He has been gone from me more than the years he was with me.
00:10:10
Speaker
I talk about him like he just passed away. Wow. That's impact. That is an impact. That is real impact. And there were so many sensory things that you mentioned as you were telling that story that like I know that like is like the snap, crackle, pop, the sweetness of that, the the cigarette or this cigar, like all of that. like oh I can walk past somebody smoking a cigar today and be like, yeah. yeah And I just feel loved. yeah I feel loved. so I said, I might even take was a cigar and smoke it on the September 10th just to think of him.
00:10:42
Speaker
That's dope. That's dope. It's so interesting. And shout out to grandpas because my grandpa was dope in just that. Like I was sitting between his – like he'd be on the couch and I'd sit in between his legs and was like, we're just chilling. Doing very little of anything, but that was the beautiful of it. It was just the most mundane and it was so beautiful. and um But what you mentioned about like how his demeanor changed when crossing over into that neighborhood.
00:11:08
Speaker
i i i worked with an older – black gentleman who I sense the same thing. And so like we'd be together and it'd be, you know, just here. Yes.
00:11:21
Speaker
And so much personality. Yeah. And then we go into the meeting with everybody else and he would shrink six inches. And i was like, oh, wow, it's real.
00:11:32
Speaker
And it lives in bones and in our in our blood. And can you can you describe like what other circumstances were like in that time period of growing up?
Historical Influences on Family Values
00:11:43
Speaker
ah Absolutely. So my grandfather was born in 1898.
00:11:49
Speaker
And he died in 1980. So he was born, you know, before the turn of that century. And, um and he understood so much about what it takes to survive.
00:12:03
Speaker
um that it was just um a part of his DNA and he we never spoke about it. and you know I was very young when he passed away. but I was 10 years old when he died. so I have all of these beautiful memories before age 10 that ah live within me right now.
00:12:19
Speaker
um So anyway, ah one of the things that I recall is that my dad got a promotion at work. So my dad had been a teacher. When I came along, he started working in an as insurance company.
00:12:31
Speaker
He got into middle management. He was one of the first blacks to do so. So there's this picture that hung on his dresser. And every day that my dad got dressed, it was like he would look at it when he would put his tie on.
00:12:42
Speaker
And the picture was the management training group that he was in. He was the only black. It was the 70s. Everybody had these big ties. I remember staring at that picture.
00:12:52
Speaker
But what I know is that it was a big deal for the whole family that my dad had made it. Mm-hmm. And so he worked for this insurance company, had this great job, and he was a manager.
00:13:05
Speaker
My grandfather came to visit us. So we moved for just four years. We lived in Ohio. So we're in Ohio, and my grandfather came up from Wilmington. And I recall him being on the phone talking to my older uncle, his oldest son.
00:13:18
Speaker
And he said, can you believe Albert up here telling white folks what to do? LAUGHTER
00:13:27
Speaker
He had gone to work with my dad, and my dad was a manager, had like a little corner office, and was just doing regular business. That was what my grandfather picked up from it. Wow. And was in awe, because my dad was the youngest of eight. Wow. he was in awe.
00:13:43
Speaker
What is he doing? yeah um And I thought it was odd. Yeah. I remember being a child and listening on that phone call like, That is so funny. Why would he make a big deal about him telling white people?
00:13:56
Speaker
He's telling the people who report to him what to do. Yeah. yeah he Oh my goodness. That's its such a difference in generations though. I mean, like to be born in the I tell a joke now, i'm like, cause I look so young. I tell people I was born in the nineteen hundreds Like I was born in the but to be born in the eighteen hundreds yes and to experience you know Well, can I tell you a quick story that I
Connection to Wilmington Race Massacre
00:14:20
Speaker
learned about him? Okay, so my grandfather loved history.
00:14:23
Speaker
So he was a keeper of history, and he also kept some of the church history from the AME church that was the cornerstone of that community. um So he kept all of these ah clippings of of newspaper articles.
00:14:37
Speaker
There was a newspaper article that said riots in Wilmington, race riots, and I didn't understand what that was about. Well, his oldest son also was a historian, kept all these records.
00:14:48
Speaker
And after my grandfather died, my uncle started telling me the story of people being massacred in and Wilmington, North Carolina. Well, we know about Tulsa now, but not very many people know about what happened in Wilmington. Very similar situation, except they didn't just go for black owned businesses. They also were going after the political structure because at the time after Reconstruction, there were blacks and whites that were governing together. Oh, wow.
00:15:13
Speaker
And so ah so that was part of the problem as well. So this one day, um it was a massacre that happened. And I'll tell you all the details about it in my podcast on Wilmington.
00:15:27
Speaker
I did a whole segment on it. But one of the things that was interesting was when the rioters came through and they burned down black-owned businesses.
00:15:37
Speaker
And they also went into black homes and they pulled people out and killed them at will. what One of the things that was um that I found in my research, and then I listened to something that was done on NPR and their research, the people in the community went and hid in the cemeteries.
00:15:57
Speaker
And it started at like 8 in the morning and went to 8 in the evening until sundown. So it's this whole 12 hours of a bloody massacre. People didn't know what was going to happen next. But they saw their loved ones laying in the street dead, you know, that kind of thing.
00:16:12
Speaker
So they were hiding in the cemetery. So that's a well-known fact that's been documented. Well, my um one of my cousins who had gotten all of these these articles from my uncle and my grandfather recently told me that,
00:16:27
Speaker
The reason when that was so important to them is because my grandfather was an infant at the time. wow So I knew my grandfather personally. He was an infant and his mother hid in the cemetery and took him with her.
00:16:42
Speaker
And that is how our bloodline got preserved. And she stood stayed there for about two days before she came out to know, is it even safe to come out from this? So hidden among the dead, the living were there to preserve life.
00:16:57
Speaker
So I call her the OG brown mama bear. Seriously. Because she knew how to protect from racism. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think that that is something that is in ingrained in humans is to protect their themselves and then their their kids and their families. But then think about what happens epigenetically or what's going on in our DNA, that when that kind of trauma happens and it is not diagnosed, it is not treated, it is not even acknowledged. Right.
00:17:26
Speaker
And you have to suppress it, pass it down. And that one day, 2,000 black residents fled, left, and never some never came back. My grandfather's brother moved to New York, and we're just finding some of those relatives. Wow.
00:17:40
Speaker
Do you see what I'm saying? So yeah it it splintered relationships, oh which is the foundation oh yeah of what we need to be whole and healthy. And when that happened, we also had a whole narrative.
00:17:53
Speaker
So the reason my grandfather kept the newspaper article is because he wanted us to know, this is what the white press called it, a riot. It was not a riot. It was a massacre. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so even the language that was given, they had to suppress that. Right. So that all of that went into my grandfather's Putting his head down when he was around white people, but coming back to life.
00:18:14
Speaker
What I loved about him is he never allowed the truth to go far from him. Yes. He told the next generation what the truth was. Yes. Oh, what's the name of the the website that shows the both sides the... Both sides of the...
00:18:30
Speaker
All Sides. So All Sides is a a media outlet that shows, um it'll like it'll say a headline, right? And it'll it'll describe if it's left-leaning, right-leaning, or central. Wow. And it'll show other news or news outlets that are sharing similar things on that exact topic, but like the difference in the pictures that they show, the difference in the headlines that they show. And it's crazy.
00:18:55
Speaker
Crazy. Because that right there, especially in today's age where we're getting bombarded with news, yes how it'll shape you just off the few words in the picture that are there. yes And to know, right, the Tulsa, Rosewood, Wilmington, like these are massacres. yeah People were dying and and and it was a result of racism. Right.
00:19:15
Speaker
like And this is the thing. Their humanity was not respected in real time. And then the the effect of that in the next generation was then the story got erased or pushed aside. yeah So humanity is not respected for several generations.
00:19:33
Speaker
So I'm just in the generation that's going to reclaim it. Let's go. I'm going to reclaim the stories. And I'm going to reclaim their humanity. And so I speak of my grandfather often because I want to make sure that people understand a face to the name yes and to the story. Yes.
00:19:49
Speaker
I also want to anchor my children to who they really are. Yes. So my youngest daughter, I was waiting for a boy, had three girls. My youngest daughter carries his name. She is Nia Alexandra because he was Alexander. Nice. And so I think there's something in the name and something that I wanted to just preserve to carry on from generation to generation.
00:20:11
Speaker
I believe that was um instinctual for me because of the family that I come from. But it's something that I'm now trying to pay more attention to and be intentional yeah to share with younger moms. yeah This is how we we give our kids strong roots. Yes,
Education and Family Values
00:20:27
Speaker
absolutely. Speaking of roots, when you when you described how your grandfather told the stories and he shared that, It reminded me of Alex Haley's Roots. And I finally, like I had that book for over a decade. now Well, it's huge. was like, man, I was using to do workouts. I was doing box jumps off of it.
00:20:45
Speaker
But I finally opened it up and I was able to read it. And it was, i mean, I got chills in it because at one point in time, and this has been debunked, but Alex Haley was supposedly my cousin. And so I'm thinking this was...
00:21:00
Speaker
Part of my lineage to to learn about yeah all of that. And it turned out there was a Chicken George over here. And a Chicken George over there. Probably 20 more Chicken Georges. And so um it was wrong Chicken George. But um getting to read that and understand it from that perspective and then realizing that we're not too far removed from that. Like you knew your grandfather who. I knew him. i i I lived yeah with him. Yeah. he he He imprinted on me that I was loved and valuable and and I was worth having a relationship with. Like those are the things that he gave me.
00:21:38
Speaker
um He was an honorable man. yeah um he he This is what I love about him. Born man his story. in eighteen ninety eight this man told his sons I need you guys to work and help me make sure that we educate these girls. Let's go. So you have five boys and two girls.
00:21:55
Speaker
Like, come on, let's make sure these girls get educated. What? yeah Yeah. What black man was doing this then? You know? so Wow. That's so cool. and And now you as this educated woman in front of me, you've done so many amazing things and you are just a beacon of hope and and grace for for so many.
00:22:18
Speaker
Tell me about the work that you do and what has inspired that work. Well, I call myself a 360 degree woman. What I mean by that is I want to live my life considering the women who are in front of me, learning from them, the women who are alongside of me, who are my contemporaries and encouraging them.
00:22:39
Speaker
And then the women who are behind me, who um who who are just younger than I am, who might look to me. And I want to make sure that I'm giving them a hand. So um in in in a woman's life, there can be so much that you gain from having that whole perspective.
00:22:56
Speaker
um And I think a lot of us short circuit ourselves by not taking advantage of mentors. contemporaries and mentees. so um So that's what I try to do. I try to learn from the women who came before me and the women who are beside me. And I learn from the ones behind me.
00:23:13
Speaker
But I'm also acting as a guide. i want to say to women who are raising kids, especially if you if you are raising black children between the age of birth and 10, that's the time when their identity is being formed. Mm-hmm. I just want to encourage those women and make sure that I'm saying, hey, there are some things that I may have stumbled on and did um unintentionally.
00:23:35
Speaker
Be intentional yeah about those things. There's some things that I didn't recognize i needed to do, but I'm saying to you, do these things because we want to make sure that we're giving our children a good foundation.
00:23:47
Speaker
um i used to live in Florida for many years. We would have hurricanes. Mm-hmm. Now when a hurricane comes, there are certain trees that can withstand it because they're doing this because their roots are so deep.
00:23:59
Speaker
There were some hurricanes that came through that were so bad they they uprooted 100-year-old trees. And when you see the roots the root system kind of hanging like that, you realize just how devastating those winds were.
00:24:12
Speaker
i want to make sure that as we are raising children, we are sowing seeds because we don't see what's happening. we We're not going to see all of the beauty of who they are um for a long time. So you're just so you're reading to them at night when you're tired. Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker
yeah You're coloring with them. You're playing. You're trying to be present with them. You don't see the benefit of that for a very long time. and Some of us won't see it. you know um So what we're doing is we are making an investment in the future. Yes. Yes.
00:24:44
Speaker
And I believe that means giving them the right environment, some good soil, some light, some water, so that those seeds take root and that they then have a firm foundation because the winds will blow, because in every generation there needs to be a brown mama bear who is helping, whether it's hiding your children in the cemetery or making sure you're advocating for them when a white teacher acts like they don't know how to read. That was one of our stories.
00:25:12
Speaker
so So those types of things you're going to have to do in every generation. And it looks a little different. um Racism metastasizes yeah with each generation. yeah So I can't tell you specifically what it's going to look like 30 years from now. I can just tell you it's going to be with us.
00:25:28
Speaker
So I want to give you principles of how you pass this down from generation to generation of sowing seeds, having ah very good ah foundation for children so that they can withstand what racism looks like. Wow.
00:25:44
Speaker
I just I had to give that some space because it's so powerful. Tell me about some of the things that you now have awareness of looking back that you didn't have as ah as a parent and how you use that in helping others.
Holistic Support in Education for Black Children
00:25:59
Speaker
One of the things that I thought was the most important thing is that I give my children the best education possible. Now, that was passed down from generation to generation in my family. And so for my kids, you know, I was just like, oh, well, where do we go? You know, I'm looking up good schools on the Internet as my kids were getting older. And then when we moved to Tennessee, I'm, you know, researching what's the best public school system. My parents were both public school teachers.
00:26:27
Speaker
I wanted to at some point my dad changed his job. But. I wanted to be in a public school system where I could be a part of the community and then a part of the school. Those were all of my my ideals. And so i research. I go to like the top public school yeah district.
00:26:46
Speaker
And lo and behold – What I have found out is good test scores, ah low teacher to student ratio, high parental involvement, all of those things do not create the best environment for black children. And so I say to parents, get all that you can get. Like if it is possible to go to that school, great.
00:27:08
Speaker
Just know that that's not all you need. So it's like if you were on a ah buffet line, get some of this, get some of that, make sure they got some foreign language, yeah speech and debate, all the things that happen in a good school, right?
00:27:22
Speaker
And at the end of the day, they need more. Wow. Because in those environments, their very identity gets stripped and and tagged every single day.
00:27:33
Speaker
yeah So by the time my oldest was applying for college and she was in her junior year, ah she had a teacher that said to her, I don't even understand why you're putting Howard University as one of your schools. Your grades are so good.
00:27:46
Speaker
You're better than a historically black college. Oh, wow. Wow. So I had to address it. right away. But it was after a while. I finally did address it. And one of the things that I said to the teacher... And this at a private... At this point, we had gone to an independent school. There was so much racism in our public school district. And we were in a part of town that was a little more rural than other parts. And so we just experienced racism in such a way that I started looking for a different environment. And And so I thought maybe if I look for something that's smaller and went to an independent school. So at this point, I was in a quote-unquote Christian school.
00:28:29
Speaker
um And I put that in quotes. I put it in quotes because I don't believe that you can say that it is always Christian. That in certain times, there are people the way that people respond and react are not in alignment with what Jesus would want them to do. so That was our experience. So I went into this Christian school and said to to the teacher, you know, you have to understand something.
00:28:54
Speaker
um My daughter has been one of the few black students coming into the school from sixth grade to 12th grade. So at this point, she has had enough data yeah to know that there are times when this space was not created for her. Facts.
00:29:10
Speaker
So she was able to survive and thrive here. Mm-hmm. But this place, while it gave her many opportunities, it also created some holes.
00:29:22
Speaker
and so right now I'm trying to plug up some of those holes. yeah And a historically black college just may be the right place for her to correct some of the damage that's been done here. Yeah, definitely.
00:29:35
Speaker
Well, his mouth kind of fell to the floor. I'm sure it did. Because I wasn't coming in angry, but I do want to disrupt the ignorance that he was with. And more importantly, I think that if he had questions about the validity of a historically black college, he needed to come talk to needed to come talk to somebody who knew about it. am an adult.
00:29:54
Speaker
Let's have an adult to an adult conversation. do not involve a child yeah who is... underage and trying to figure out what she wants to do with her life. Yeah. And it was so good to have you there to advocate. Yes. Like the the the advocacy role of adults in a child going through that when their identity has been damaged through that experience to – because she could have very well walked in there and had that told to her and then felt even worse about herself or black universities or black people or whatever – And then continued along that path. Because I think that was a part of my journey for a really long time.
00:30:29
Speaker
Of not having somebody step in and say, no, this is how things are. And so. I'm a product of Howard University. Let's go. And so is my husband. Yeah. So I have two degrees from Howard. Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
yeah You can't talk about Howard University to me. So there was something innate in me that just rose up and was like, oh, but no, see, you need to understand something.
00:30:52
Speaker
yeah And so it was the Howard University inside of me that came out yeah in that way. and and And what I learned at Howard was never to expect the outside world to understand the excellence and greatness that happened yeah in those walls. Right.
00:31:08
Speaker
But I will show you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you're walking it. So and I think ah like what you said earlier about like this place, the space wasn't built for her. And in fact, it was intentionally built to get away, to exclude. Exactly. And it was like, exactly oh especially here in um Tennessee and Nashville in particular, there's so many private schools per capita. And the rise of those private schools came after desegregation. Exactly. you just start seeing them pop up and it's there's a reason for it. Yeah.
00:31:37
Speaker
And so to know that. were definitely some segregationist academies. Yeah. And the one that we went to, um i know for a fact because I've met some of the families that actually started the school. And so um i met a woman who was a child at the time and overheard the conversation that was happening in her family's living room as they were starting that particular school. So I know for fact that it was escape escape Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, like, I think when schools who are, you know, in that category hear things like that, they get very defensive. At least some personalities within those schools get very defensive.
00:32:21
Speaker
And it's not today, right? You didn't cause that. You weren't the start. Maybe some of those founders are still around, but some of the schools are old and they're and they're not. It's about how do you create an environment now with the knowledge that we have yeah to make the school more.
00:32:35
Speaker
a better place for all of its students. And, you know, the founder I know very well today. um and We were in that space for so many years and I know him. um I would say that he's not the same person today that he was in 1969. However,
00:32:52
Speaker
um he created a space that benefited white people who wanted to get away from integration. And he does not completely understand today the harm that was caused by that.
00:33:07
Speaker
And so I don't think that he's a bad person. I feel like people are complicated right and there's nuance. right um But when we know better, we do better. Right. And the way that we know better is because there are people who will tell you the things that have happened. And so and so listening to that and having ah the humility to listen to that is very important. It is. And that was not our experience in that space. There was defensiveness.
00:33:35
Speaker
But at the same time, I can't let that um keep me from doing the best thing I can for my children. Mm-hmm. So one of the things I've learned that I tell people all the time is you can't always know right when you're walking into a space. We know that it wasn't built for us. Right.
00:33:50
Speaker
If I knew if I knew knew then what I know now, I would say there are some spaces that are better than others for us to go to. um So I didn't know that. But when you're in the space.
00:34:02
Speaker
Listen to yourself. Listen to your body. Listen to the comments that are made. You know, when my daughter was applying for college and other parents said things like, oh, you'll definitely get into that top 20 school because they got to let in a black student.
00:34:19
Speaker
Wow. What? Wow. No, my ACT score... And my extracurriculars and my entire resume. What? Yeah. Same family also went to that top 20 school.
00:34:33
Speaker
When we got there and took the tour, we saw that there was a building with that person's name on it. They were a legacy. Right. What? going talk to You tell me affirmative action just let us in by a mistake, but you got in on a name. a name you know So those are the types of things that happen that gaslight us. yes So I just tell parents, listen to what's going on. One key thing is if you're in a school system and they will not allow um or or they frown upon or they try to discourage
00:35:03
Speaker
black families, especially black mothers, from being together as it as affinity group and do things because there's something that happens when we come together and we feel like we are seen and we have support. We show up differently. yeah And ah that particular school was not liking my attempts to do that within the school. And and it actually didn't happen.
00:35:29
Speaker
um And so when something did go down that was extremely racist, ah racist language was on the walls during homecoming one year, horrible things happening.
00:35:40
Speaker
the black parents were just trying to find each other yeah to respond. right Had we already had this community and support that we were meeting quarterly like I wanted to do, it would have been a quick, easy way to round us up to you know come and may have a response to it.
00:35:57
Speaker
And I think that was intentional. And so I tell people that if there's ever discouragement from black parents participating in that way, then you need to use that as a red flag. yeah And maybe that is not a good space for your child.
00:36:14
Speaker
Wow. What have you noticed in your daughters having gone through that experience and how does that make you feel as the mother of them? um I think that i placed my children and harm's way.
00:36:28
Speaker
I put them in a position because I wanted better for them where I was prioritizing a predominantly white school and all that it could offer over their well-being as a black woman.
00:36:44
Speaker
And so i have apologized to my children over and over again. One of the things that my kids in their adult years have said to me is, Mom, we were all hoodwinked. You were not the only one who thought that we were doing something good. right So they have been extremely gracious to me. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't send my child to any independent school. It doesn't mean I wouldn't send them to any predominantly white school. It doesn't mean that.
00:37:14
Speaker
But the particular ones that we were in, there were some harm done that I wish I could have protected them from by listening to – there were red flags that went off that I dismissed yeah because we're wearing pleated skirts. And so I think this is better yeah to get us into college and the next thing. Yeah.
00:37:31
Speaker
um ah What happened is that ah my children, because of the family we're in and some of the ways that that God just intervened in our life, my children are okay. Their self-esteem is intact. They love their black selves. And that's a wonderful thing. um The biggest thing is I want there to be no lid to where they can go, what they can do. Mm-hmm.
00:37:52
Speaker
So my oldest one um is an educator, and she's going to go back and get her degree. ah She's just going to get a master's starting next year, and she wants to work in education policy. ok But she was in seventh grade the first time she said to me, what do people do when they can't go to a school like the one that I'm going to? Wow. So she's always had this justice mindset around education.
00:38:17
Speaker
um And so she's using all of those things that hindered her along the way from from being her full self. She's used all of that to end the space. She now teaches
Daughters Thriving in Diverse Fields
00:38:30
Speaker
11th grade U.S. history. Yeah. Good, good.
00:38:33
Speaker
And she teaches it differently than it was taught to her. I'm sure. Yeah, for sure. So she just uses all of those experiences and leverages that so that other kids will have a different experience. My middle daughter is a creative. She's a choreographer, a dancer. She loves being in the arts.
00:38:50
Speaker
and And she was in a space where in the dance world, um black girls were really not treated well. Mm-hmm. She uses all of that so that when she teaches other kids, she sees them. She makes sure she she makes that them included. She shows parents what it looks like to get tights that match their flesh tone. Okay, there's practical things that that were scars from us putting them in these ballet companies where they were not seen and treated in the way they should have been.
00:39:19
Speaker
My daughter just flipped it. yeah And then my youngest is a Howard alum. budha And she teaches kindergarten right now. ok um And she asked me to come sit in on her kindergarten class and read to them.
00:39:33
Speaker
I could not believe the classroom management this child had. And I'm flashing back to remembering when she was in kindergarten. yeah Here she is teaching kindergarten. And um I love watching her help them have some racial identity. So for all – she's in a very multicultural class. And so they had yarn and construction paper of all different colors so that the kids were doing a self-portrait and affirming who they are and what they look like. so Oh, that's so good. And one of the things, one, so proud of all of them, like so proud of all of them and all that they do. one thing you said that I think is is hard for adults and parents at times
00:40:18
Speaker
ah To do is to apologize, say, I'm sorry, I messed up. I think that's very vulnerable to admit that that we don't have it as adults all together and as parents not always having the right answer. yeah And so I think that was a huge step for you Let me tell you what it did.
00:40:37
Speaker
I did not know this. All I knew is it was the right thing to do, to say, I wish if I could go back, I would have chosen a different environment or I would have kept listening to the things that you were telling me.
00:40:49
Speaker
And when I saw you retreat into yourself, you know, I would have I would have leaned in more yeah and not just assumed these educators have it all together. So I just said, that's just the right. It just feels right.
00:41:02
Speaker
On the other side, what happened was it helped our relationship solidify in a whole different way. yes So relationships get ah get strengthened when someone has the the vulnerability and the humility to say, I'm so sorry. Yep. I did what I did out of love for you. i wanted to give you better.
00:41:24
Speaker
I'm redefining what better means. That's so real. sorry That's so real. I say like a big part of my message is is like chasing success for so long. And like, this is what success is and not even defining it for myself, but having the world define that and chasing that version of success and that version of success is went to private school, went to a top 20 university, went yes did all those things.
00:41:49
Speaker
But at the same time, it neglected my well-being and my identity and my sense of safety. And all of those things were neglected in chasing that success. And so now success looks totally different and it cannot be defined if it doesn't include those things. Well, let me tell you how I've seen it happen in my life. So my oldest daughter graduated from high school in 2016.
00:42:12
Speaker
All the things, jumped out through all the hoops, whatever. Mm-hmm. But as she was applying she was to college, she was doing it out of this sense of proving yeah her worth yeah and who she is and and and having that be some kind of measure. yeah I didn't realize I had done that to her. Some kind of measure of your worth and how i'm how intelligent you are, what schools you can get into. You know what it brings me back to?
00:42:35
Speaker
It's the coloring book. It's the coloring book. right It had to be perfect because of how the world is going to perceive you. Exactly. And so it's just a ah ah manifestation of that in a different after some healing and growth and loving herself and finding her people, even at a predominantly white institution, she found a group of black people who who know how to come together. And she got that experience there. yeah All of these things have come to change and heal her. So she's been healed in so many ways. yeah
00:43:07
Speaker
She goes to apply for grad school this year. So she's doing it not in my homes. I don't get to see all the nitty gritty of it. But every time I talk to her, she just sounds different. She doesn't feel pressed, stressed, or like she's not jockeying for her worth. You know what i mean? Like she's not, she's just like, huh, I think this is what I want to do with my life. yeah And so she just applied.
00:43:29
Speaker
Well, when she got back the first ah ah acceptance letter from an Ivy League. Let's go. Yeah. let's go I said, girl, look at you. Let's go. And she was like, yeah, but I don't really see it as a measure of my worth. It just happened to be the program that I was interested in.
00:43:50
Speaker
Well, that is success. That's huge. That is success. Oh, i love that. And now she is going to an IV and I'm very proud. Let's go. Oh, that's so dope. you Oh, man. You've you've done, i think, throughout their journey, and it's so it's so beautiful to to hear that you have seen them along the way.
00:44:09
Speaker
And so despite the the scars that they may have experienced through that experience, like you were there to see them, to advocate for them, to stand up for them, and then to reaffirm your You are it.
00:44:22
Speaker
Well, I was the first generation to go to integrated schools. So I stand between two generations. My parents went to segregated schools all their life. yeah And they worked as hard as they did to give me better opportunities.
00:44:37
Speaker
So when I went to predominantly white schools, because they were the best ones in my state that my parents could send me to, ah they had no idea how to help me through it because they hadn't had the experience. Wow.
00:44:49
Speaker
So they did the best they could. We had Jet Magazine, Essence laying around. They tried to tell me I was beautiful. They did all the things. They helped me understand phonics so I would read. You know what mean? They did all the things, but they didn't have that experience.
00:45:01
Speaker
Experientially, I remember what it felt like. So as I was walking my kids into the first day of their school in Tennessee, I had a flashback of what it was like for me going to Riverside Elementary School. Mm-hmm. And I was on the playground when I was seven years old and somebody said, do you know why your skin is darker than ours? Because God made a mistake when he made you and left you in the oven too long.
00:45:22
Speaker
That was seared in my consciousness for years. This idea of, could it be that I'm a mistake? And so when that is something you carry with you, if you're not the one to get the best grade on a spelling test, or if you didn't ah do well with your fractions, but you have this in the back of my mind, maybe I'm just not as good because I'm black. yeah Or they hand out the combs when it's time to have picture day and You can't get it through your hair and everyone else is.
00:45:52
Speaker
You just notice that you're different and you wonder, you just wonder, is my blackness bad? So I knew what that felt like. And so I just wanted my children to not equate their blackness with something that is negative. Wow.
00:46:06
Speaker
And I didn't know all of how to do it. Now I have a plan for how we do that. yeah I've got a five-step plan of how I help ah parents do that. And we're going to create an environment where racial identity can be a positive thing.
00:46:20
Speaker
I got chills. Let's go. You said the
Five-Step Plan for Positive Racial Identity
00:46:23
Speaker
five step plan. Can you give us a little taste of what that looks like? Well, one of the things that we have to do is make sure that we are in our home seeing our children themselves. So it means to not be as busy ourselves, that that we've got to slow it down.
00:46:39
Speaker
and And I understand that sometimes that feels like I am ah putting too much of a burden on parents. And that is not my goal at all. It's just to say, be present yeah with them.
00:46:50
Speaker
um So it's doing that to slow down and see them in your home. The second thing is to make sure that we have joy in our homes. Yes. So the joy looks like the music we listen to, the food we cook.
00:47:03
Speaker
I want it to be that that my kids don't just remember um if for being somewhere in someone else's home, but even in my home. Let's have some collard greens on the stove on Christmas morning. You know, just things like that that can remind them and connect them to the people group that we're a part of.
00:47:22
Speaker
The third thing is that we have to have black history yes as a non-negotiable because our history does not start in trauma. no Our history starts on the continent of Africa that was an amazing and beautiful place that was carved up by colonizers.
00:47:40
Speaker
And the reason that they have so many problems even today stem back from colonization. yeah And so I want to connect my my children to the fact that in the end, I'm a woman of faith. I believe there's going to be people of every tribe, tribe tongue, and nation in heaven.
00:47:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Well, that means that tribes, tongues, nations, people groups are important to God. And he created us that way. So I don't believe that we're a melting pot. I think we're more like a quilt.
00:48:08
Speaker
i like And so each patch on the quilt is beautiful in and of itself. And I shouldn't try to be someone else's square, but i have to be my own square. But then when we're a tapestry together, it can be a beautiful reflection of what diversity looks like. So Black history looks like that in my home. It is, I'm connecting you to a people group that you are a part of, and it's a beautiful thing.
00:48:33
Speaker
um Then the fourth thing that we do is we advocate for our children. We make sure... that we have eyes and ears on the grownups around them yeah during the day. Once they go to school, they're in that school more than they're with you.
00:48:48
Speaker
And that doesn't mean that I want to discourage teachers. I have two teachers in our family. My parents would teach. I love teachers. right But teachers are humans. yeah And sometimes humans have bias. yes So absolutely that's the other thing. And then finally...
00:49:03
Speaker
I want to make sure that in our families, one of the things that I'm encouraging people to do is to make sure that you ah say to your children, not just you can be anything that you want to be, but no one can place a lid on your success.
00:49:18
Speaker
And so it might mean we have to have a different mindset of what we will do. um Will Smith said that he wanted to be a rapper and his mother told him, you can't be one because I don't know what that is. Yeah.
00:49:32
Speaker
If we're ever telling our children, I don't know what that is, then we're part of putting that on them. right But I also believe that racism places a lid on our children. And so we're going to blow the lid off of that. yeah and And we're going to anchor them in who they are and then tell them to let soar.
00:49:51
Speaker
oof Those branches should reach the sky. Yes, I love that. So you got presence, showing up, being there, showing just be there. And I think for some people, if you feel like I don't have that much time and I'm doing this, look at the stats on your phone and show how many hours you spent on any given app or on your phone.
00:50:10
Speaker
Take some of that time and give it to your kids. Provide that joy. Study that black history. Advocate for them. Absolutely. And cut them. Blow that lid off. Blow the lid off. Blow that lid off. And people can come and be a part of a community I'm creating. Starting in May, I'm starting a cohort of moms. We're going to be together for six weeks at a time.
00:50:31
Speaker
And we're going to go through all those steps. And in a community of people, that's how we do it. So you can go to brownmamabear.com, find out more information about that. But that is one of the ways i want to help people is that we're going to do that virtually on Zoom, but we're going to meet meet together. And after a couple of cohorts, we're going to have a time when we all come together in person. Nice. Oh, that's be fun. But I absolutely love it. And I want to make sure that being present is something that is easy. So I'm also working on a journal um that has prompts for moms to always stay in touch with what's going on with their kids.
00:51:04
Speaker
So sometimes maybe that's easier than actually saying, okay, each kid gets an hour a day. Like, you know what i mean? Maybe it's you you share a journal prompt with your kids. I like that. I like that. And that vulnerability, like you said earlier, is going to help. And it's scary. Yeah. But it's worth it.
00:51:22
Speaker
It's so worth it. Oh, i I do not want to end this conversation, but we're getting we're getting closer to the end. But before we get out of here, I got a fill in the blank segment. Okay. You let me know. First thing that comes to mind. Okay. This one.
00:51:35
Speaker
Oh, I'm scared. Well, you said vulnerability is scary. Vulnerability makes me feel blank. Makes me feel afraid.
00:51:46
Speaker
ah Now, I do things when I'm afraid, but it makes me feel afraid. Yes. My greatest superpower is blank. Loving people. That's dope.
00:51:59
Speaker
If I could tell my younger self anything, it would be blank. You are not a mistake. Yes. When I need inspiration, I turn to blank.
00:52:12
Speaker
The book of Ephesians, oh my goodness, it is jam-packed. Drop some jams. Jam-packed. Ephesians chapter 1 tells us that we're loved, adopted, accepted, that that God loved us so much. He was willing to not just demonstrate it, but he was also willing to create a path that we could be connected to him.
00:52:34
Speaker
And then... He gave us the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what my inheritance will be. So anyway, I go to Ephesians because it just it makes me know that somebody was willing to love me so much, willing to die for me. Yes.
00:52:49
Speaker
Oh, yes. And you, man, that if that don't affirm that you're not a mistake, then i don't know what is. Exactly. that's so good. That's so good. Shannera, this has been amazing. Thank If y'all haven't checked out Brown Mama Bear podcast, please do so because...
00:53:05
Speaker
ah we We did an episode, how long ago was that? did, out at least six months ago now. Okay. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, so we did we did an episode. It was amazing. Go check that out. Can we put it in the show notes? Can we put a link in the show notes? It'll definitely be in the show notes. um But also just the the conversations, the work that she's doing to to make schools and make parenting and to help our young people out in the ways that they're living life and the ways that they're developing from her experience as a brown mama bear herself. It is beautiful. So check that
00:53:36
Speaker
Are there any final thoughts that you want to share? Any things you
Protecting Children from Racism
00:53:39
Speaker
want to get off your chest? Any FUs? Any FUs? A brown mama bear is a protector and a lover of her children.
00:53:47
Speaker
Sometimes people get a twisted and they think that I just want to wrap my kids up in bubble wrap or encourage others to do the same. That is exactly the opposite of what I want. I believe our children need to have some difficult things in their life in order to grow.
00:54:01
Speaker
But let's let the difficulties be fractions. Let's let the difficulties be conjugating verbs in another language. The things that will that are difficult that they have to rise to the occasion to do, but racism should not be one of them. So I'm a brown mama bear because racism is beyond the pale of what we should accept.
00:54:20
Speaker
I believe mothers can change this world, just like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, change the way we think about being impaired and getting behind the wheel. I believe that women parents, mothers in particular can say racism is something we need to tamp down on and you are not going to let that happen in order to harm my child. So I'm a protector, but it doesn't mean I want to wrap them up in bubble wrap. Yes.
00:54:43
Speaker
Oh, yes. Because we got to build that resilience too for all the other stuff that they deal with in life. Shanira, how can people contact you? How can they reach out? How can they hear more? I would love if anyone wants to get in touch with me, just email me, shanera at brownmamabear.com.
00:54:58
Speaker
I love when people in, excuse me, let me try it one time. I love when people will engage with me on Instagram. So I'm at Brown Mama Bear podcast on Instagram.
00:55:09
Speaker
um I'm also, i have a website called BrownMamaBear.com. So I'm also engaging as well there. Let's go. Oh, that's so good. And I hope that many people reach out and connect with you because the work that you're doing and the person that you are just absolutely fantastic.
00:55:23
Speaker
It's a gift to this world. You're a gift to this world. Thank You're mistake. You were meant to be in this place right here. Thank you so much for having me. This has been so much fun. Thank you. Shannera, with all the things that you could be doing and all the places you could be, I appreciate you being here and me embracing vulnerability.
00:55:38
Speaker
Thank you.
00:55:41
Speaker
Thank you for joining us in another episode of Vulnerability Muscle. If you've enjoyed these conversations around vulnerability, please consider leaving a review. Your feedback not only motivates us to continue to do the work that we do, but it allows other people to witness the power of vulnerability. Share your thoughts.
00:55:59
Speaker
on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, or wherever you're listening from. And don't forget to spread the word. You can follow us at vulnerabilitymuscle on Instagram and me personally at
Vulnerability as a Source of Strength
00:56:12
Speaker
Reggie D. Ford across all platforms.
00:56:14
Speaker
Visit vulnerabilitymuscle.com for additional resources and support. And remember, embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness. It is the source of your greatest strength.
00:56:26
Speaker
Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but most workouts are. So keep flexing that vulnerability.