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00:00:01
161- Would vegans eat human breast milk ice cream?
81 Plays10 days ago
According to Scandi' company 'Frida', this is the question we've all been too afraid to ask! Dominic, Mark & Ant dissect this one, plus eight other stories from the last seven days in the vegan & animal rights space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.farminguk.com/news/farage-accused-of-selling-out-farmers-after-chlorinated-chicken-remarks_66341.html
https://www.libdems.org.uk/news/article/animal-welfare-in-the-food-system
https://eu.lubbockonline.com/story/news/local/2025/03/28/ttuhsc-documents-allege-animal-neglect-and-abuse-during-medical-research-study-led-to-11-mice-deaths/82695406007/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/defra-bans-imports-from-austria-after-new-foot-and-mouth-case_66340.html
https://www.farminguk.com/news/defra-confirms-string-of-bird-flu-cases-across-england_66342.html
https://knews.kathimerini.com.cy/en/news/cyprus-parliament-rejects-new-dog-welfare-regulations
https://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news/mclaren-defends-circus-practices-amid-animal-rights-protests-a2c3c9da-97e2-4b73-9b3e-c6460cb95e10
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/unity-diner-returns-new-menu-london-first-vegan-carvery/
https://www.today.com/parents/babies/breast-milk-ice-cream-frida-rcna198581
https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/fridas-human-breastmilk-flavored-ice-cream-prompts-peta-pitch-say-ta-ta-to-cows-milk-and-make-it-vegan/
https://frida.com/pages/careers
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Mark & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan Week Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello everybody and welcome to your one-stop shop for this week's vegan and animal rights news. My name is Dominic, joining me for this episode are Mark and Anthony, but that's enough of the falafel, it is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:21
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your lab grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:40
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick
00:00:48
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:03
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everyone, you are listening to Mark. Welcome to this week's and Enough of the Falafel.
00:01:13
Speaker
Hi there, Anthony here. If this is your first time with us listening to an Enough of the Falafel, welcome. ah This is our Vegan Week show. We look through the last seven days or so's vegan and animal rights news. We do have another type of show called Vegan Talk, but you can look through your podcast provider to see what that one's all about because we're here for the news.
00:01:35
Speaker
And that is enough of the falafel. So let's get on to hearing what has been going on in the news this week.
00:01:43
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
00:01:56
Speaker
Good stuff, good stuff. If you are a regular listener, then you will know that I'm not the usual host. Anthony is trusting me for the second time to be the master of ceremonies, which is really exciting.
Debate on Chlorine-Treated Chicken Imports
00:02:10
Speaker
Although for the first story that I'm going to chat about with Mark, It's ah probably, if I was doing a top five of people who are my my least favourite people, well, I think two of them two of them feature in this list. ah We're going to be speaking about Nigel Farage, who's been criticised after he admitted... that would accept chlorine-treated chicken from the United States as part of trade deal.
00:02:36
Speaker
The Reform UK leader has been cautioned against jeopardising the UK's high food and farming standards after he expressed support for allowing the meat to be sold in the UK.
00:02:48
Speaker
Mr Farage, a close associate of Donald Trump, stated that the US s president would want US agricultural products to be sold in Britain as part of any deal.
00:02:58
Speaker
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme, now there's been some concern about chlorine-treated chicken, but there is an answer to that, which is... Label things.
00:03:09
Speaker
Let the consumers decide. Mark, is it simple as just plopping a label and trusting the common sense of the good British people? Yeah, I do wonder what what the label would actually say.
00:03:24
Speaker
Like, this this this poor chicken has been dipped in chlorine, you know, the stuff they put in swimming pools to to to negate child's piss, you know? It's funny. It's really ridiculous. um So i get the feeling that that no one is thinking that their their their natural and so-called tasty chicken is so natural that it needs to be dipped in chlorine before you put it in your mouth in order to to make it safe, apparently.
00:03:50
Speaker
up i was I was looking into this, and the reason it seems to be done as standard over in the U.S. is that their hygiene on their farms is so poor that the only way that they can be sure, despite all the antibiotics that that are given to these animals, the only way that they can be sure that this stuff is safe enough to put into humans mouths is by dipping the carcass in chlorine before it it's wrapped and and sold.
00:04:16
Speaker
The reason that the UK farmers are so are so against the US s food coming over here is I think they're afraid of the competition. It's nothing to do with the welfare or of of of animals.
00:04:28
Speaker
The chicken is a carcass but by the but by the time it's it's dipped into chlorine. So any notions of rights or welfare are moot at that stage, right? The poor thing is dead. So it's nothing to do with welfare or ah care of the chickens or the so-called, here again, the high food and farming standards. They always get that one in. They always get that one in, don't they? but when theyre when they're When they're referring to themselves.
00:04:51
Speaker
So they're they're afraid of they're afraid of competition and it's nothing to do with chlorine. oh I wouldn't surprise if if it does end up on shelves here. And I think people would buy it. The very fact that these poor beasts are factory farmed in the first place.
00:05:03
Speaker
If that isn't enough to to put you off buying these products, then dipping the thing in chlorine isn't going to really change things. So, yeah, it's it's just it's just more more out of the mouth of someone like Mr Farage, who i I agree with you, Dom, is one of the people who despise most in this world. And this sentence here, Mr Farage, a close associate of Donald Trump, thats that's all you need to know. As soon as you've heard that, you can just forget everything else he says, really. you know Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:30
Speaker
You know, I think most of us in our lives have had periods where we've really been in deep denial over things. I know I have. I mean, i'm ah I'm a man who is now a gay man. I know what it's like to be in denial over that.
00:05:43
Speaker
And there's comparisons between that and my denial over how animals were treated when I was a meat eater. Then for many years, I was a vegetarian and, you know, denial over the you know, the non-vegan vegetarian stuff like cheese. And yeah, I think that what a world it is that that that we we would be seen as extreme to talk about realities of... ah of these practices, it's like, oh no, don't talk to me about that. And it's just, it's just too easy, isn't it? Too easy ah to label us as, ah as extremists when it's like, but, but actually all we're doing is repeating what is happening. Just, just, you know, we're not putting any opinion if you just in a, like a Nick Cave song lyric, just calmly listed stuff that's going on. Like that's all it is. How is that extreme? How is that extreme?
00:06:43
Speaker
Awful, awful. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Mark. Let's head over to Anthony's first story.
Livestock Import Ban from Austria
00:06:50
Speaker
ah It's about the UK government who've announced import ban of livestock from Austria following a new case of foot and mouth disease in neighbouring Hungary.
00:07:02
Speaker
The disease was confirmed on the 26th of March on a large dairy farm in northwest Hungary, close to the Austrian border. In neighbouring Slovakia, three farms confirmed outbreaks of the disease last week in a southern region home to large populations of pigs and cattle.
00:07:23
Speaker
The cases came just two months after the disease was confirmed in small herd of water buffalo near Berlin, Germany, which also has UK import ban.
00:07:36
Speaker
Anthony, what's your reaction to this sobering news? Yeah, iss I mean, it's obviously horrible news for the for the animals concerned, who in this article are not really referred to at all in terms of their suffering. In fact, the the the main narrative that Farming UK give is that the disease causes significant economic losses.
00:07:59
Speaker
due to production losses in the affected animals, as well as loss of access to foreign markets for animals, meat and milk. So there's, unsurprisingly, there's there's no real reflection on the real people who are suffering the most, which is the the sentient non-human animals themselves.
00:08:16
Speaker
It feels like this one paired with our last story could make us think that, you know, everything's going very well for farming in the UK. Of course, we we don't chlorinate our chickens. We don't have foot and mouth disease.
00:08:30
Speaker
Of course, we did 20 years ago. I'm sure that the three of us will remember that 2001 i seem to remember it was foot and mouth disease and caused a lot of problem a lot of disruption and 10 years prior to it there was the the bse the mad cow disease as well so it's not something that we're immune from in this country despite the fact that here we're reporting about things that have happened in central europe if you have These animals who are reproduced very, very frequently live very, very close together.
00:09:05
Speaker
These things happen. It's it's zoonotic diseases. It is what happens. and And actually, we can do things like like in the last story, focusing on, oh what are what you doing? Stuff with chlorine, are you? Oh, no, you shouldn't be doing that.
00:09:18
Speaker
Or in this case, you should, you know, looking at it going, oh goodness, is there this particular disease? Oh, well, we can combat that. These are just intrinsic parts of...
00:09:29
Speaker
this kind of industry of of farming, of commodifying living animals in this way. i mean, you it would be interesting, wouldn't it, to get into a time machine and go 50,000 years before you know lots of animals have been ah domesticated or have been turned into products for us and to see exactly what diseases would have happened because there would there would be you know with that there are diseases that affect wild animals today and of course that's still really sad but I don't think there's any doubt that we're doing anything other than making the situation worse by cramming animals together
00:10:07
Speaker
And it's it's just the quick um the quick reproduction as well of of animals. It just allows diseases to mutate far, far quicker than than they would ordinarily. So it's some it's kind of rubbish.
00:10:22
Speaker
And I think that for me, from a vegan perspective, the most rubbish thing is kind of similar to Mark's first story, is the fact that most people will look at this and they will be focusing not on the root cause of the problem.
00:10:38
Speaker
They'll be looking at it going, oh, well, that's no good what they're doing in Austria. what they're doing in Hungary yeah there's this xenophobic lens isn't there that like you know i think that if um uh you know i was doing a vegan podcast in the US or not not vegan podcast if I was doing a talk that the concerned vegan matters ah and there was Britain brought up it would be interesting the lens through which they saw Britain because it's so easy isn't it to point the finger point the finger especially if it's across the waters yeah yeah yeah definitely and yeah yeah absolutely and it's um i mean we for fear of repeating ourselves we've got another another story coming up later in the show about another a different zoonotic disease But very often the narrative from the authorities is one saying, well, there's no problem, but please act as if there is a problem, which tells you what you need to know. It's like, well, there is a problem. We don't want to admit there's a problem, but actually there is a problem.
00:11:38
Speaker
Maybe we'll learn one day. I hope so. And I hope so.
Liberal Democrats' Animal Welfare Proposal
00:11:42
Speaker
ah I'm talking as if Anthony and me and Mark are all UK residents, but Mark could not be further from being so, being ah based in New Zealand, which makes the recording of this podcast a glorious thing, no small effort on Mark's uh half and yet we're bombarding him with uk based stories so mark your story your next uh thing on which to report is uh our uh uk uh party the liberal democrats this week they've passed a new policy which they say will get the uk back on track as a world leader for standards of animal welfare
00:12:24
Speaker
in the food system. Well, if this is your first time listening to this podcast, I think you're already going to be quite clear on what we think of the general UK standards of animal welfare in the food system.
00:12:37
Speaker
So what the Liberal Democrats saying this would involve is investing in a workforce plan so that farmers have access to enough vets, abattoirs and farm workers to meet what they call the UK's needs.
00:12:53
Speaker
ah It's about preventing unnecessarily painful practices as opposed to all the necessary painful practices in farming. ah So they're talking, ah in this case, they're talking about non-anethicised castration and de-budding, live plucking and force feeding.
00:13:14
Speaker
ah They want a national strategy to end the cage age of animal farming, bringing an end to practices harrowing crates within this parliament and to introduce a national strategy to combat antibiotic resistance, including support for farmers and a ban on the routine and preventative use of antibiotics in groups of animals.
00:13:38
Speaker
Mark, when we get a largely non-vegan group of people like the Liberal Democrats saying stuff like this, is our reaction one of, well, it's good that they're going in the right direction?
00:13:52
Speaker
Or is it is it even that? is it Is it a thing with which we should treat ah you know with greater pessimism? What do you think, Mark? It is painful to read. I've tried to read their actual...
00:14:06
Speaker
ah policy on the website, but it was just so peppered with um nonsense and hypocrisy and things that didn't make sense even within its own narrative.
00:14:16
Speaker
Okay, so it's saying here that and their new policy is to get the UK back on track as the world leader for standards and so on. I thought we were already there in the UK because according to the UK farmers, we're already there, so we shouldn't need this policy.
00:14:32
Speaker
And also, if being a world leader in standards of animal welfare includes non-anethicised castration and de-budding and live plucking and force-feeding, then what sort of standard is this?
00:14:46
Speaker
you know So ah it's it's complete nonsense from the illib-dems. Thankfully, they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of achieving power, I think, any time in our lifetimes.
00:14:56
Speaker
But they they're they're one of these groups of ah people who think that they're really cutting-edge and radical, But when you look at what they're proposing, it's absolutely mainstream sort of general consensus stuff. So there is no there' is barely a mention really of of animal welfare here. It's more to do with farmers having enough access to abattoirs and things like this.
00:15:19
Speaker
I mean, it's it's this this is designed solely to... appeal to farmers and not animal rights activists or the animals themselves. So yeah, as I say, thankfully, they aren't going to get in. Now, now if if you look at there at the at the very last point here that you and mentioned here, Dominic, about their national strategy to combat antibiotic resistance, and so they they want to ban on the routine and preventative use of antibiotics in groups of animals.
00:15:48
Speaker
If they ban the use of preventative antibiotics now without addressing the hyper overcrowding of animals in factory farms, disease will break out within weeks. And if the if this led lived there and put policy was enacted,
00:16:03
Speaker
It would probably lead to the death of more meat eaters in Britain then so you know since the Black Death, you know. So and it's it's really badly thought through. And it is gestural politics designed to appeal to the middle class rural vote.
00:16:19
Speaker
And that is it. I think sometimes it's it's it's very easy to say what you're going to do when you're in opposition, as as the the current Labour government are finding. I think once once you're in power, it then becomes a different matter, doesn't it? And then you start getting pressure from people saying, well, hang on, you said you were going to ban foie gras, hang on.
00:16:39
Speaker
You said you were going to ban trail hunting. Like, when are you actually going to deliver on this stuff? I completely agree with what you were saying, Mark, in terms of it not being worth ah the paper it's written on these these words. I mean, that one of their last points, they they talk about giving consumers proper information and choice by introducing a clear system of labelling based on the successful egg labelling system.
00:17:02
Speaker
I mean, we know as as vegans, we would not say that the current egg labelling system is... is successful. it's It's arguably making the system worse because because people think, oh, it's free range.
00:17:13
Speaker
Oh, it's great. Oh, those those are the chickens that just wander around in the countryside and occasionally drop an egg on on on a bit of grass and someone scoops it up, which as we know is not the case.
00:17:23
Speaker
I would say, however, I do think there is a glimmer of hope here in that if you are well, this is just my perspective. If you're the an opposition party and you're trying to do things that you think actually most people want to happen,
00:17:41
Speaker
then you're going to, like you say, you're going to appeal to a kind of popularist notion. And actually, if the appeals to popularist notions are ones that are saying, let's look after animals better, that's at least something. Do you know what mean? Like they're not saying, we're wasting loads of money on animal welfare. Let's cut all of that to save this amount of money.
00:18:02
Speaker
They're not saying that, are they? that And and yeah sure, they're getting it wrong. um in in how they're saying we should look after animals but at least they are trying to say that with that there needs to be big education pieces and it's it's down to us vegans to supply those education pieces but I at least took heart from the fact that they're trying to ah trying to say the right thing yeah yeah thank you Ant Well, Ant's next story is about the
Bird Flu Outbreaks in England
00:18:33
Speaker
government. Again, lots of government stories.
00:18:36
Speaker
ah The government have confirmed numerous so bird flu cases across England in recent days, including on commercial poultry farms. Highly pathogenic avian influenza was detected in poultry at a farm in Cumbria on the 29th of March.
00:18:55
Speaker
H5N1 was also detected on the same day in poultry and captive birds at premises near Romsey in Hampshire. ah Three kilometre protective zone and 10 kilometre surveillance zone have been declared surrounding the premises and a humane cull, they're words that we love to hear, humane cull, has been ordered.
00:19:21
Speaker
Avian influenza is notifiable in all poultry and other captive birds. An influenza of avian origin is notifiable in both kept and wild mammals.
00:19:33
Speaker
If the disease is suspected, it must be reported immediately. Failure to do so is an offence. Ant, what a lot of cases of of horrible, horrible illnesses we're getting this week.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. that they' Terrible. There's a lot to unpack here, so i I'll try and do so as as quickly as I can. The first thing is, like you say, Dominic, we're You know, it just happens to be that this week we're we're getting reports of lots of different zoonotic diseases and things like that. But there they're an intrinsic part of animal farming. So I don't think there's any use if you or someone one you know is a consumer of dead chicken bodies.
00:20:15
Speaker
There's no use saying, wouldn't it be nice for me to be able to have this fried chicken, but then not to be avian flu every now and then. Like they're an intrinsic thing. like they the two go hand in hand so as far as i'm concerned again there needs to be education on this but if you're somebody that decides to continue to propel the demand for chicken as a food stuff then you are part of what is causing avian flu like this this is this is coming from the demand and part of the
00:20:50
Speaker
Part of what happens when you have things like avian flu is exactly as you've said, Dominic, there's, quote, humane culls, lots of animals who do not have the disease but happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, i.e.
00:21:05
Speaker
near to other animals that have it, they will just get killed. as a preventative thing. So again, that is part of, if you buy chicken, you're helping to cause avian flu and you are continuing that practice of those birds who haven't even got the disease, the being being killed.
00:21:27
Speaker
Another thing that's that's happened, that you mentioned the the strict biosecurity measures that the government has as insisted on since the 16th of February because of these um these things being spread. Farmers in Herefordshire, Worcestershire, Cheshire, Merseyside and Lancashire have to have basically all of their birds indoors basically all of the time and that's a legal requirement.
00:21:52
Speaker
That includes the nearby animal sanctuary near me where there are chickens and turkeys, um Good Heart Animal Sanctuary. They were featured on the film that we reviewed a couple of weeks ago, Dominic, with the two guys that you ah found entertaining and attractive.
00:22:09
Speaker
um that That's the same animal sanctuary there. um And in fact, when I went to visit a couple years ago, they also, because there was avian flu, um at the time but it wasn't on their sanctuary at all but the government said no if you live in this county you have to keep your animals indoors you have to keep your birds indoors so all of this is stuff that comes from it all the root of it all is people deciding that they need or they want or they prefer to eat the bodies of dead chickens it all comes from the same place the last thing I just wanted to draw attention to was that very last thing you said
00:22:48
Speaker
about if the disease is suspected. So if avian influenza is suspected, it must be reported immediately. Failure to do so is an offence. Now, in a sense, of course, the the the stakes for these animals is high.
00:23:05
Speaker
If they get this disease, it it can be fatal. So yeah, if we can see something that can prevent them getting that disease, then of course we should. That's not why failure to report it is an offence though, is it?
00:23:17
Speaker
The reason it's it's an offence to not report avian flu is because of the economic damage it is doing farmers. That's why it's been made an offence. And it it just made me really sad to think of this. This has been reported on Farming UK.
00:23:33
Speaker
They will also report on stories of bad stuff going on in farms, you know, farm workers um abusing animals or birds. you know like lots of other things like that that are to do with animal rights. They will report on it.
00:23:46
Speaker
Nowhere there is there a mention of, if you see an animal being abused at a farm, if you fail to report that, that's an offence. But like there's there's not that incentive there. And like I think that's just a real sad indictment of actually...
00:24:04
Speaker
it's a it's an offence to fail to prevent these farmers losing money because loads of their birds have got to be culled. But actually, if you see someone abusing a pig, you cannot tell someone about that.
00:24:17
Speaker
And it's not necessarily going to be an offence to withhold that information. i'm I'm sure it still wouldn't reflect well on you in a trial if it came to it. But do you see what i mean? Like, it's...
00:24:28
Speaker
it's it's I don't know. It just seems really sad, but it's it's just an intrinsic part of ah of people wanting to eat chicken, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if I'm being a bit bit harsh there, but i think I think they go together hand in glove, really.
00:24:43
Speaker
I think we cannot be too harsh. I think harsh word of the Anne. Word of the day, definitely, definitely. ah word of Word of life, yeah, yeah. Campaigning, campaigning, campaigning.
00:24:56
Speaker
And speaking of campaigners, Mark's next story, we're going to talk about the ah the Stop Animal Exploitation Now ah non-profit group, the SAEN.
Animal Testing Concerns at Texas Tech University
00:25:07
Speaker
They are calling upon the president of the Texas Tech University Health Services Center to impose severe penalties against the university researcher.
00:25:18
Speaker
whose alleged negligence and abuse led to the death of 11 animals. This is according to documents they acquired through a Freedom of Information Act request.
00:25:30
Speaker
These details include gross miscalculation of the experimental compound given to experiment mice at a minimum 10 times lower concentration.
00:25:43
Speaker
The incident involved over 10 animals that had surgery performed on them. The type of surgery is not made clear, but given the delicacy of procedure, this is probably too many animals to utilise in such a short timeframe.
00:25:58
Speaker
Initial surgical procedures were performed with non-sterile instruments, including the thread that is inserted into an artery. Improper ways of housing the mice after surgery, leading to fighting an animal injury despite counselling from staff.
00:26:15
Speaker
One incident led to one mouse being severely injured that led to its death. ah Continued failure to document post-surgical monitoring and animals left in the surgery room unattended for hours post-surgery on multiple occasions were also reported.
00:26:31
Speaker
um Mark, what a horrible situation this is. We've got a lot of really hard-hitting news this week, haven't we? it's Yeah, it's it's another sort of peek into hell, really, the the sort of hell of...
00:26:44
Speaker
animal testing. Oh, it's like ah Dr. Strangelove has entered the room. I mean, this this is, uh, so these, these poor mice and mice get an awful rap by people. mo mice Mice and rats are actually beautiful creatures. They're really friendly and curious and absolutely gorgeous creatures. i know lots of people who have, who have them as pets here, uh, particularly rats are quite the biggest pets.
00:27:05
Speaker
So in this case, these poor mice were given 10 times the dose of whatever it is that they were, i mean, and then, um, surgery done on them with dirty equipment and all the rest of it ah It's just, it's it's awful. it's ah It's a horror show. and It's typical of vivisection.
00:27:23
Speaker
I think a lot of them are ah just sort of clowning around and they aren't really sure what they're doing and they and they and they don't we see the animals as animals at all. They're they're just another extension of their toolkit really. and it's it's awful um It's awful to think that animals are treated this way still, and but I think it happens in in every lab um around the world, I would say, something of this ilk.
00:27:49
Speaker
So yeah, it's just more of the same from the vivisection industry. and Yeah, a horror show. I just wanted to come in with ah an observation here. Like very often when people who are not on board with animal rights first hear about it, they will make the miscalculation that those of us who believe in animal rights think that actually, you know, a random a random rat on the street, we would want to be treated exactly the same as we would our own child or something like that. And so, well, that's that's ridiculous. You know, how how can you equate the two?
00:28:24
Speaker
But I think in cases like this, ignore the fact that that, you know, these animals are being experimented on. If you imagine ah a story where humans are having um completely wrong doses of drugs given to them, dirty surgical instruments used on them. like that That for me is kind of like, it let's pretend it was a vet where this was happening and they were trying to be looked after.
00:28:51
Speaker
That's what animal rights is. It's saying, actually, we'd we'd give the same care and respect in those instances that that we would a human being. We wouldn't just say, oh, well, it's a rat, so it doesn't matter.
00:29:05
Speaker
there's There's no point. and it did it It doesn't matter. um Again, we have to get past the fact that this is a you know these animals are being experimented on needlessly. Obviously, that's a complete violation of rights. But I think that shows the kind of disregard that that they have and and actually why animal rights is an important concept to get across to folk.
00:29:26
Speaker
Yeah. There's something very callous about the vivisection industry that that that really becomes clear at every expose that that is that is done on them.
00:29:37
Speaker
in Huntingdon Life Sciences or wherever shows their callousness and disregard and almost sadism towards the animals in their in their charge. You know, it's it's really disturbing to see. I was speaking a little bit earlier about how easy it is to go into denial about, you know, myself when I was sort of closeted before, you know, coming to terms with being gay.
00:29:58
Speaker
I had a friendship with a a woman who defined herself as vgan And if if our regular contributor, Julie, was here, Julie would be a frothing with rage at the fact that she called herself a vegan because she really differentiated her job. Her job was working um in a lab doing animal experiments and her.
00:30:24
Speaker
incorrect definition of veganism was she really differentiated between cows and chickens and lambs and then like you you know mice and rats you know for her it was like completely different thing and she'd completely come to peace with that by again just like not seeing mice and rats as animals as living beings. And I was really shocked about how she'd come to that. And then I thought, but is it that unusual? Is that not just another flavor of people who like, oh my gosh, have you heard that there are dogs in labs being experimented on? Have you heard that? How can anyone do that to a puppy?
00:31:09
Speaker
And yet, you know, mice and and rats are fine. So, yeah, it's really, really awful. And we've covered before on previous shows about um how, you know, it's red tape. It's the fact that things, you know, just need to be seen to be tested on something.
00:31:29
Speaker
When, you know, these beings have got bodies so different to us, it doesn't prove or disprove anything. What happens to a mouse is...
00:31:40
Speaker
not connected to what happens if stuff is used on a, on a human being. It's, it's awful. I think the, the, ah the Black Death was awful for the brand Rattus back
Dog Welfare Regulations Rejected in Cyprus
00:31:56
Speaker
in the day. And they've never really recovered from that.
00:31:58
Speaker
yeah thank you mark thank you well we've got one more story to pass on to ant um in a surprising move cyprus's parliament has voted to reject the animal protection and welfare regulations 2022.
00:32:17
Speaker
These regulations aim to set basic standards for the living conditions of dogs kept in private homes, ensuring their well-being. Out of 42 MPs present during the vote, only three voted in favour, 21 voted against, two abstained.
00:32:39
Speaker
The rejection of these regulations came after a lengthy debate with the Speaker of the House questioning the submission of the bill and the implications of its failure.
00:32:51
Speaker
He noted that the decision was made after much deliberation. but offered little in terms of a clear path forward for improving animal welfare.
00:33:02
Speaker
The decision has not been well received by animal rights advocates. The Cyprus Party for the Animals condemned the vote, calling it a double-edged sword. While the party disagrees with the proposed minimum dimensions for dog cages outlined in the regulations,
00:33:20
Speaker
They argue that rejecting the bill will only maintain the status quo, where poorly kept dogs are still a widespread issue. An international story here, Anthony. What is your reaction to this news? It's a baffling one.
00:33:38
Speaker
i really try to understand why ah parliament... would reject regulations aiming to set basic standards for the living conditions of dogs.
00:33:50
Speaker
Like to me, that seemed like an absolute no brainer. We we've featured earlier in the show, admittedly in the UK, you know, a a political party, basically with nothing to lose. They're not in power.
00:34:04
Speaker
They can basically say, when we get in power, we'll do all of these things and no one's going hold them to account um because they're not going to have to prove it. And they decided to say, look, we'll do all these things that that are going to make things better for animals.
00:34:16
Speaker
And yet here in Cyprus, there's what seems like an absolute no brainer. Let's look after dogs. I think I'd be surprised if dogs are not also universally loved in Cyprus. Perhaps there is a ah more widespread feral wild dogs um issue that, you know, but be people not being able to look after them. Maybe that changes things a bit, but I reckon that there's still a ah loved animal over there. I don't know. I'm guessing. So the fact that Number one, as as this Cypriots Party for the Animals have pointed out, only 42 MPs were present during the vote, which is is is not even half the number of MPs in the country.
00:34:57
Speaker
um And the fact that they've not not voted in favour of this is is slightly baffling. And indeed, these animal advocates couldn't explain it either. There's also something weird about the fact that the news story says out of 42 MPs present,
00:35:12
Speaker
Three voted in favour, 21 voted against and two abstained. Well, that adds up to 26. So I don't know what happened to these other 16 votes. I know it's been April Fool's Day this week, but I don't know if this is actually a real article. I think, i as as I've said,
00:35:29
Speaker
I'm not a native of Cyprus. I don't know much about the country. and In fact, to do with animal rights, the only other thing I know is a story we covered about this time last year. I just re-looked it up to to confirm the numbers.
00:35:41
Speaker
um It was something like 400,000 songbirds were killed in one season there, it's it's ah because of its location in the Mediterranean, a lot of songbirds will stop off in in Cyprus when they're migrating and they're they're just like sitting ducks. They just get hunted. There's a massive like bird hunting industry done in really barbaric ways. So unfortunately, that's the only other bit of knowledge I have about Cyprus and how it views non-human animals.
00:36:09
Speaker
I can't really comment and in in that regard. I guess that in a desperate attempt to cling to some sort of positivity and hope after some quite negative stories so far this week.
00:36:21
Speaker
I don't know, something like this wouldn't happen in the UK, I guess, it would be my positivity. and And I think there's a lot of countries in in in the world where actually as as rubbish as the parliament might be, <unk>d I'd like to think that there is more progress than this, if if that makes any kind of sense or any kind of silver lining, that actually this is an example of a parliament that is behind the times, I would say. Or am I being really naive? don I don't Mark, Dominic, whether you would disagree. i would I would say this is a surprisingly bad decision.
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean, it's it's ah it's, yeah, I agree, it's awful. But it is interesting that Cyprus has a party for the animals, a a political party for the animals, which would suggest that which would prove that there is some interest among among enough people to form a political party there in Cyprus, regardless of the mass bird killing and the this sort of rejection of this bill.
00:37:23
Speaker
um ah I wonder if Cyprus has ah peculiar particular interest attitudes towards these animals the way France did with cats. that There used to be ah huge vendetta against cats in France for millennia.
00:37:38
Speaker
And up until the 1800s, I think, they they ah used to have this cat burning festival where they would get loads of stray cats and throw them into like a wicker man sort of thing and set it alight in front of a cheering crowd a crowd which included the royal family and the king and queen at the time so you know it wasn't just a an underclass sort to like sport like cop fighting it was it was a national celebration of setting cats on fire so uh that's gone now but uh i wonder if cyprus has you know idiosyncratic
00:38:10
Speaker
cultural reasons why dogs are seen as like the devil or something like this. I'm speculating. Yeah. I mean, i would say as well, even, you know, I'm falling into the trap that we've been decrying earlier on in the episode by saying, well, of course that wouldn't happen in this country. We're far more advanced than and that.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah. ah I do think even our parliament would, you know, would pass something like this. But, but the fact is... Even Nigel Farage. He's only one MP and he's never there, is he?
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah. I think... The fact is that even if we do have legislation in countries that say, yes, this is how animals should be treated, the fact is it's not enforced.
00:38:55
Speaker
So really what makes a difference is what people do on the ground, isn't it? And actually, you know, to to the to the people of Cyprus who do care about animals.
00:39:06
Speaker
companion animals and for dogs and in particular, really the power is in their hands, isn't it? Because authorities never really enforce these things anyway. So that's a crumb of comfort, perhaps.
00:39:19
Speaker
Thank you, Ant. Thank you. Well, if you're new to listening to Enough of the Falafel, each week we ah have all the stories, but our speakers choose one story to be their pick of the week.
00:39:32
Speaker
So we're going to be hearing about ah some circus practices. We're also going to be hearing about vegan carveries. So ah yeah, if we're looking for ah crumbs of hope, give me the crumbs from the carvery.
00:39:48
Speaker
That's what I'm looking for, hearing about.
00:39:56
Speaker
But we'll build up to the carvery. We'll go to Mark's story first. So Mark, I believe that you're going to share something about circus practices going on in the news this
Protest Against Circus Animal Use in South Africa
00:40:06
Speaker
week. So McLaren Circus, which is currently running shows in Milnerton in South Africa, as part of their annual Western Cape and South African tour, has drawn criticism from animal rights activists who are calling for a ban on using wild animals in performances.
00:40:24
Speaker
On site, the circus has 35 staff members and a variety of animals, including eight poodles, two llamas, four camels, four tigers and three lions.
00:40:35
Speaker
McLaren said retired animals were sent to his farm and zoo. His farm. animal rights group beauty without cruelty has planned a protest against the circus saying its use of wild animals and domestic lions including lions and tigers subjects them to unnatural and stressful conditions they say these animals are subjected to constant transportation small cages and confinement loud music bright lights and disorientation and training that often involves coercion and lack of natural environments and stimulation they said
00:41:08
Speaker
McLaren defended the circus's practices, saying the animals were born in captivity and could not be released into the wild. Now, this is an interesting story because i went to the source of the story, which was then the Cape Argus in South Africa newspaper.
00:41:24
Speaker
And it quotes the owner, uh, David McLaren at length and the, uh, internal inconsistencies are quite hilarious really. So let me just find here.
00:41:35
Speaker
Okay. So here's a, here's a quote from the circus owner himself. Having animals here does not make me a non animal lover. Maybe we see animals in a different way in a sense that I believe in animal welfare.
00:41:48
Speaker
And I do not agree with animal rights because the narrative that a child chicken and a dog and a horse have the same rights as a child is nonsense, he detailed. Now, one in the animal rights community says that these rights need to be identical.
00:42:02
Speaker
What we say over and over again, and it's very simple. is that they need to be done according to species. But then he sort of goes goes on to say, and I quote, the needs of an animal are not as complex as that of a child.
00:42:13
Speaker
I believe in welfare. The animals are part of our family here. Animals need to be cared for. They need veterinary care. They need stimulation and they need to be housed safely in a place that cares for them.
00:42:24
Speaker
Just like a child, I would add. In fact, I would say the only thing that you would need to care for a child is shoes and a college fund on top of what he mentions here for animals. So it is it is hilarious. But then he has some good advice here. he says, if activists want to change the law, they should take their fight to parliament, he said.
00:42:42
Speaker
And I agree with this. And I think the the Beauty Without Cruelty group are spot on and they should try and get the South African government to enact laws against the use of animals in circuses the way it happened after a long fight in the UK and Ireland and most of Europe now, I believe. The interesting ah side here, and it's it's not especially relevant, I suppose, but the spokesperson for McLaren's circus is a guy called Tony Brockhoven.
00:43:12
Speaker
who is the chairperson of a transgender ah gay and lesbian rights group based in South Africa called PWR Project. And these guys, if you go onto their website, the PWR Project are a bright, welcoming, progressive looking organization that champion gay and transgender rights amongst teenagers in South Africa, a service really needed, I would say.
00:43:38
Speaker
But the person that runs that project, the PWR project, this guy, ah Carl Hildebrandt, is the spokesperson for this circus.
00:43:48
Speaker
A bizarre meeting of two very different worlds, I would say, Carnies. and transgender youth. know So um this collaboration between the PWR project and this Animal Using Circus has caused a deep rift within the transgender and lesbian and gay rights community in South Africa because a lot of those people do not want anything to do with and a circus.
00:44:12
Speaker
So it's it's a confusing mix of worlds, I would say. and Carnies, as we we know them over in Ireland, are some of the most violent people to oppose in the animal rights field and struggle.
00:44:26
Speaker
um a recall once a cold, windy, wet day afternoon in Galway, the west of Ireland, and there was this circus that was using animals. This is back in the early 90s, and it was before the ban came in.
00:44:39
Speaker
the the ban on using animals in circuses. And they were traveling around. they were i think they were UK-based circus, and they were doing a tour around Ireland. So the few animal rights groups that existed in the country at the time had coordinated a series of protests at each town that they turned up at.
00:44:55
Speaker
And at this time, they were in Galway Town, which is where I was living at the time, So myself and a friend of mine arrived to the entrance of the car park of the circus.
00:45:06
Speaker
And it was lashing. It was sideways rain. It was freezing cold. It was really windy. There was no one going to the circus, right? But myself and my colleague were standing there with like a stack of leaflets in our hands, urging people to boycott the circus. And there was no one coming in or out. We were there for about 20 minutes or so.
00:45:22
Speaker
and then this carney came out right this big huge guy with the sort of wax mustache and all that wearing his like top hat so he looked like uh daniel day lewis in uh you know that mad butcher guy in the gangs in new york build a butcher he looked a bit like him and he was smoking his cigarette and and he was unshaven and he was angry as fuck looking and he stormed out of the big top and he walked straight towards me right there was no one else there was me and my friend around and She was a girl and he was he was coming straight for me.
00:45:52
Speaker
And without saying a word, he came up and he grabbed all my leaflets, threw them all into a puddle and then turned around and walked back into the big tub. I stood there for about five minutes. and if there was CCTV, they captured the look on the three of us faces. it would have been hilarious. And then I tried to scoop the this soggy wet leaflets out of the puddle and make sort of sense out of them.
00:46:14
Speaker
But there was no one going to the circus anyway. So we just got on our bikes and Cycled away. And that was the end of my interaction with and circus folk for that season. I think you claim that as a win, Mark. I think that was a win, clearly.
00:46:27
Speaker
No one went in all went in. It was all because of you. It must have been those wet, soggy leaflets. They were by now and unreadable because the ink had run. Yeah, so so that is, let me see, um to come back to the story. All right, and there's a quote here from the PWR people. um While PWR does vital work in feeding and supporting queer youth, we must be clear, compassion cannot be selective.
00:46:52
Speaker
We cannot liberate one group while harming another, they added. These are the people who are ah fighting back against their spokesperson being also a spokesperson for the circus at the same time.
00:47:03
Speaker
So it's it's provoking a debate. um I'm not sure if the South African government will get around to dealing with so animal welfare and rights issues in a country that seems so bedeviled by really serious crime there.
00:47:17
Speaker
But um it is interesting that it's getting a conversation going. I really thought that those quotes from the the circus owner were They're talking about animals, you know, the animals that are here with us. They're part of our family.
00:47:34
Speaker
The fact is, as the activists themselves pointed out, in fact, I don't think they pointed it out clearly enough to be able to perform in those circumstances there is they they say it often involves coercion no it always involves coercion it it will it will involve violence it will involve all sorts of things to get to get a lion or a tiger for goodness sake to perform that that they will have been beaten they will have had their teeth knocked out they will have had all manner of things done and for
00:48:08
Speaker
the cheek of someone saying we treat them like family. I mean, my goodness, the poor guy's family. Goodness me. But I thought, I did think the activists made some some really good points so about the loud music, the bright lights, the disorientation and and things like that. Because And actually, you know, circuses that that take place in in the UK, you will still sometimes see dogs and things like that and involved. And actually, ah again, you know, I know dogs have been domesticated for a long time, but it's still not choosing to be in a situation where there's...
00:48:43
Speaker
loads of loads of loud music, bright lights and and things like that. That's that's not where ah a dog wants to be, let alone a lion or a tiger. Thank you, Ant. Thank you.
00:48:54
Speaker
Well, um my pick of the week is Ant's pick of the week. I'm very excited. to hear about vegan carveries. Now, I'm not familiar with what Ant's about to say, so I'm making a massive presumption that this is going to be a positive story.
00:49:09
Speaker
Ant might go on and read an article, all vegan carveries banned forever, forevermore. Hopefully, that's not what we're about to hear.
00:49:19
Speaker
Ant, would you care to tell us about your pick
Reopening of Unity Diner
00:49:22
Speaker
of the week? Yeah, absolutely. So we actually reported on the closure of the Unity Diner earlier this year. And indeed, that is what was happening. And that is what did happen. um It was based in London. It was very well known because ah the the organization behind it was was fronted by Ed Winters, more commonly known as Earthling Ed.
00:49:46
Speaker
There's a lot of fantastic vegan advocacy. So it was a well-known place. I have visited myself before. it was It was very busy, you know, good food and doing a lot of good work for animals in that profits went to, all of them went to an animal sanctuary.
00:50:06
Speaker
Very often, you know, we we read about or we visit cafes or restaurants where they will, you know, the proceeds from a certain dish or if you buy a certain cake or a certain drink it will go towards it but actually the unity diner all of it did but lot of restaurants and cafes and and businesses in the hospitality sector are struggling at the moment and indeed they close their doors at the end of january however they've announced that they are coming back including that dom's very eagerly anticipated vegan sunday carvery
00:50:42
Speaker
And in fact, we are recording on the very night that they are reopening the for episode. You will be able to go. and visit them.
00:50:53
Speaker
So in in the post on their Instagram, which has just over 40,000 followers, the team wrote that they just had to give it another go following support from the community after Unity Dining's closure was announced.
00:51:06
Speaker
Makes it sound like they'd sort of had enough and then they got loads of messages saying, ah, go on, give it a go. And then they said, oh, go on then. Wasn't as simple as that. And indeed, that wouldn't have been a big enough reason to make them stop in the first place.
00:51:18
Speaker
um As they put it, um they have basically been able to have negotiations successful with their landlord as well as investment from one of their co-founders. So really, really good news there.
00:51:33
Speaker
um I picked it as my pick for the week for for several reasons. um Long-term listeners will know that I um used to um co-own and run a vegan restaurant myself um as well as another ah vegan cafe. And I think it's a real It's a real between a rock and a hard place when you're you're doing that kind of thing. Generally, people invest their own money um or if not, an awful, awful lot of their own time and emotions.
00:52:04
Speaker
And sometimes you can feel like you are carrying the hopes of fellow vegans and fellow animal rights advocates and you want to do a really good job by them. You want to do a really good job by the animals and it is hard work and really without painting a a woe is me picture. Like if if you if you look at the origins of of the hospitality industry, it's based on an elite separation.
00:52:29
Speaker
You know, you you have people who can afford to pay other people to make food for them and serve it for them and clean up after them. That's kind of its origins. And sometimes you can feel that when you're working in that field.
00:52:42
Speaker
um And I say that as a very privileged white middle class man. So, you know, I'm not feeling too hard on my luck, but that's where the industry kind of comes from. And it is hard work.
00:52:54
Speaker
And so i really felt for them and indeed any business when they they have to close. um In my business's case, it was just due to due to personal reasons. But sometimes it can be financial. Sometimes it can be things out of your own hands. You know, that a landlord can say, no, we're not having you anymore.
00:53:11
Speaker
There's a ah vegan business near me where they were um resident in a ah pub. So the pub owned the building and they served the drinks or whatever, but they have a kitchen and they they give out a guest spot to her whatever business wants it. And this vegan business sort of filled the gap. And after a couple of years, the pubs turned around and said, no, we don't want you anymore.
00:53:30
Speaker
So there's lots of reasons why these things can fall by the wayside. And something that really made me smile with this story was according to the PR that Unity Diner have put out, um many of the former staff members, including some original team members, will be returning to work there. And that's another Another thing that um is a horrible thing about, you know, starting a a vegan business, if it's successful enough that you then can employ people, that's a wonderful privilege. But actually, if the business ceases to be, then you have to tell those people, I'm very sorry, you've not got a job any anymore. And that was one of the hardest things I had to do.
00:54:10
Speaker
um was tell 30 people that I'd co-employed and created jobs for and then all of a sudden their their job wasn't there anymore. So it must be brilliant for for those guys to be able to to return to this job that they thought they'd lost and to bring that joy and to spread that vegan message to vegans and and non-vegans alike who are visiting this diner um in the centre of London. It's a really, really positive story and I'd encourage anybody Anybody who's able to get there to to do so because like they when I went it was very tasty very delicious and a great message that they spread to and they they support a sanctuary and
00:54:48
Speaker
with their profits. So it's a win, win, win, win. Hooray for wins. Hooray for wins. ah Ant is based down south. I am in Manchester, the north of England, and I've spoken on previous shows about how much I love to support local businesses.
00:55:05
Speaker
As a self-employed person myself, I always love seeing the joy that people have from something that they've created their own uh their own enterprise it's a fantastic thing and so far removed from what aunt was saying about the the origins of the service industry and how things can go when they're they're not done uh so well so yeah Long may vegan businesses thrive.
00:55:40
Speaker
Hooray, hooray, hooray. So ah we love hearing our listeners' opinions on the news stories that we cover. um It would be brilliant if you wanted to share your thoughts.
00:55:53
Speaker
Here's how to get in touch. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
00:56:04
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:56:16
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We have one last story to cover on this episode, our main story of the last week.
00:56:28
Speaker
It is a surprising new offering by... Frida.
Breast Milk Flavored Ice Cream Marketing Debate
00:56:34
Speaker
Anthony, am I saying their name correctly? Frida? Do we think that's how we say that? Well, as as the story unfolds, listeners will be unsurprised to hear that ah it's a company that is new to me. So I can't comment on whether you've pronounced it correctly, but it doesn't sound like you've ah million We'll go along with Frida for now. If, you like me and like Ant, you're not familiar with them, Frida are offering breast milk flavoured ice cream. So Frida are known for its ah baby, mom and fertility products, as well as its creative marketing.
00:57:12
Speaker
And it's venturing into the food space, at least temporary, with an ice cream flavour. So this is not the first ever batch of breast milk ice cream.
00:57:24
Speaker
According to NPR, a London ice cream shop used donated breast milk create its baby gaga flavour in 2011.
00:57:35
Speaker
ah The BBC reported that their sales were frozen due to safety concerns. The fleeter company shared that their ice cream will be a pitch-perfect representation of the sweet, creamy, nutrient-packed goodness we have all wanted to try, have been afraid to ask.
00:57:56
Speaker
but What a presumption. What a presumption. The company hasn't revealed many details, but have said that the ice cream will contain many of the same nutrients as breast milk's,
00:58:07
Speaker
like omega-3 fats, carbs, important vitamins, iron, calcium, BD and zinc, and lots of h two o for hydration.
00:58:18
Speaker
People interested in buying it can sign up on the Frida website. ah Peter have had a response to that. The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals sent a letter saying, to the company's ceo urging them to do right by mums of all species by making the ice cream vegan and keeping the stolen milk of a mother cow off the ingredient list To make the deal especially titillating, Peter is offering to send the company a supply of breast is best stickers to put on the packaging.
00:58:54
Speaker
They point out that the human breast milk is the healthiest option for infants and adults can enjoy the taste of dairy products without all the saturated animal fat and cholesterol by choosing milks,
00:59:07
Speaker
cheeses and ice creams made from soy, coconut, peas, almonds, cashews, oats and more. They ask with all the attention that this pro-breast milk ice cream flavour is receiving, will Frieda ensure that it is supporting and honouring all mothers by making it vegan well what a bold claim that this is what we've all wanted to try but been afraid to ask anthony were you afraid to ask for this oh my goodness no like um was i afraid no i um i don't know how to respond to that question i was not looking for for for breast milk
00:59:56
Speaker
ice cream. I am not somebody who is grossed out by the idea of, you know, vegan meats or vegan cheese or vegan egg. Like I'll have all of that. I've had vegan black pudding.
01:00:08
Speaker
I'm not grossed out by that. I understand why some people are. However, If somebody said, do you want to try some vegan breast milk ice cream or indeed real breast milk ice cream?
01:00:20
Speaker
I think I'd probably say pass or I might just say, OK, I'll try a tiny little bit. If it was real breast milk ice cream, jokes aside, I'd want to know that it was consensually given, you know.
01:00:33
Speaker
um but But other than that, no, it's not on my bucket list, if that's so if that's what you're asking. It's from my throwing it into a bucket list. No, actually I actually had ah had the option of trying some breast milk when i was i was i was a stay-at-home dad, I still am, and when my kids were very young and my wife would go off to work, she she would leave ah breast milk in bottles in the fridge to give to give to the kids for, for during the day.
01:01:02
Speaker
So every day for years, i had a bottle of breast milk in my hand and I had the option, the choice then to try some. I did think about it, the odd time, but it I never did. i don't know what it tastes like. And the idea just... The very odd time, I think.
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it probably tastes like chicken. You know, the way they say everything tastes like chicken when when when they try eating a camel something. There's no attraction to it. i don't know where the Frida company are or getting their and their're marketing from, but I've never heard anyone express their desire to try human breast milk, even as they're drinking cow milk.
01:01:41
Speaker
you know and yeah But but but that's that that's what it is, isn't it? it is It is marketing and it it said it in the story as you read it out, Dominic, like people who are interested can sign up on their website. It's just to to garner interest.
01:01:55
Speaker
it's yeah I wouldn't be surprised if this product doesn't actually exist or... or It is a dairy ice cream that is that is made to simulate the taste, but has got nowhere near ah you know ah a mammary gland.
01:02:13
Speaker
Well, ah a human's a human's mammary gland, but as Peter are rightly pointing out, I mean, this this story is like right up their alley, isn't it? Because they love the obtuse and the and the odd and and you know that the press release.
01:02:27
Speaker
that's That's what they live for. you know As they pointed out, if they are going to do this stunt, it should at the very least be vegan. Yeah, I agree. And I think so what Frida are doing, as you say, and and is a marketing exercise, if you go onto their website, and first of all, their opening front page of their website ah is is a photograph of what looks like a baby snorting a massive line of cocaine.
01:02:53
Speaker
And it's absolutely hilarious. They're a Swedish company who came to the market with a snot-sucking device, a snot syringe. that you would push up a baby's nose and extract the xx excess snot from the their noses.
01:03:10
Speaker
And now they're expanding into breast milk. But if you go onto the website, it's ah an an online form that you fill in to express your interest in purchasing the product. So I don't think the product is there yet. So I think it's just marketing.
01:03:22
Speaker
And PETA, true to form, are doing some marketing on the back of that marketing by highlighting the dairy connection. and And it is absolutely typical of Peter to do that. It's an easy and sensational way to get headlines and to get more membership and to get more renowned.
01:03:40
Speaker
And they do this all the time. And they're experts at hijacking other people's projects to deliver an animal rights message. And they do it very effectively. But yeah, I think the two of them are playing the same game here.
01:03:50
Speaker
what What's really interesting is um you mentioned, Dominic, that this isn't the first time that breast milk ice cream has been produced and marketed. um I went and looked up this ah Baby Gaga flavour that was sold in Covent Garden, central London, ah just over 10 years ago. The the remaining scoops of Baby Gaga ice cream were confiscated by Westminster Council's Food Standards Department to check whether it met hygiene requirements.
01:04:20
Speaker
Now... that that interests me because i kind of think well but you know are you going to check the rest of the dairy ice cream that they've got like that there's such a presumption that like well of course all all dairy ice cream will be absolutely fine and and and meets all the hygiene requirements but actually oh no there's something that's there's probably literally gone from you know a covent garden mum who who is is lactating and and and and donating a a few bits of breast milk that are not being used.
01:04:51
Speaker
um that in In terms of points where that could become unhygienic, there's probably not many compared to like the whole chain of dairy that's gone on. Like it it really highlights the hypocrisy. In my mind, I don't think I'd want to have either, to be honest. it So three very definite reasons no's and we were not afraid to say no we have no fear no fear in our rejection that it's it's it's good marketing though isn't it even even saying that oh you you know you you know you want it you know you secretly want to to ask for this you know it's it's like the marmite love it or hate it hasn't it you know the three of us are all saying well actually no i don't want it but it kind of by posing it in that way but secretly yeah yeah secretly on the whatsapp group later
01:05:39
Speaker
ah da All right, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. and One final bonus news story. If you're a UK listener, there are UK vegan events ah going up and down ah the country. And I've got a real invested interest because as a poet, I am someone who performs at these events. So there's one in Manchester, my home city, on Saturday, the 19th of April.
01:06:08
Speaker
And I'm also going to be going up representing Enough of the Falafel. because I always give this podcast a big old shout out. As I say, my poems, I'll be in Pudsey, which is around Leeds on Saturday, 3rd of May.
01:06:22
Speaker
So there's a Vegan Events UK website. If you're a UK listener, feel free to check that out. So thank you listeners for listening. We really hope that you've enjoyed the show because we always enjoy recording it.
01:06:40
Speaker
We would love it if you could please do us a very small favour. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too.
01:06:55
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:07:11
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:07:22
Speaker
And thank you everyone for listening to this edition of Enough of the Falafel. and The next edition of Vegan Talk will be out UK time Thursday, 10th of April with Dominic and Ant discussing how vegan is your bank account or your pension scheme.
01:07:38
Speaker
Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Dominic. Thank you, Mark, for both of your contributions. Thank you, everyone. for listening we absolutely are honored and love the fact that you are listening every single week i've been anthony and you've been listening to vegan week from the enough of the falafel collective
01:08:01
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsclap.com.
01:08:16
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:08:42
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:09:03
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:09:18
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.