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Episode 4: "My Favorite Nerd Shit" - Buffy with Logan (Part 1)
39 Plays8 months ago
We're still getting the hang of this podcasting thing, but one thing we ARE super good at is talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Even though we will probably find any excuse to talk about our dear Chosen One, we had to do her proper justice with a dedicated episode and our fellow Scooby, Logan! If you're interested in learning more about Flaming River Con, head over to their website here: https://www.flamingrivercon.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Technical Difficulties
Meet the Hosts and Episode Theme
00:00:01
ryanzymler
ah Welcome to Real Hot Nerd Shit, a pop culture podcast where real hot nerds talk about real nerd shit. I'm your host, Ryan.
00:00:10
Shauna _she_her_
I'm your co-host, Shana.
00:00:12
ryanzymler
And today in this installment of my favorite nerd shit, we will be talking about a mutual love between Shauna and I, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Guest Introduction: Logan
00:00:25
ryanzymler
And in order to do that properly, we have invited another nerdy friend to sit with us. Welcome, Logan.
00:00:35
Logan Dorado
Hi, y'all.
00:00:37
ryanzymler
Hi, Logan. How are you?
00:00:39
Logan Dorado
I'm good. How are you?
00:00:42
ryanzymler
Good. So, um, you know, we'll do a, ah maybe, maybe now's
Challenges and Episode Naming
00:00:47
ryanzymler
the good time. Cause I think one thing that's important to say is this is the third time that we have tried to record this. Um, so per Shauna's absolutely just genius.
00:00:59
ryanzymler
pun brain We've decided that the episode is going to be called Once More with Feeling, ah and we're going to do it once more with feeling, and this is that once more. So, Shawn and I got connected with Logan last year ah for Flaming River Con, which is the first time that all three of us were together, but I've known um Logan for ah for a few years through Mutual Friends. um Do you want to talk a little bit about Flaming River Con as a plug before we jump in?
00:01:28
Logan Dorado
Yeah. So Flaming RiverCon was founded in 2017 as a 501c3 nonprofit. We focus on uplifting queer voices in the geek community here in Northeast Ohio. And every year, aside from the COVID years, we have hosted f Flaming RiverCon, which is a one-day event. We move locations each year just to do things sometimes on the West side, sometimes on the East side.
00:01:55
Logan Dorado
um But we have a vendor hall. We focus on, or we feature, I should say, queer voices in the geek community. We have had folks like Tony Isabella, who's the creator of Black Lightning there, Senior Grace, who writes for DC.
00:02:08
Shauna _she_her_
my My forever favorite.
00:02:11
Logan Dorado
Yes, an amazing human. was our actual
00:02:12
Shauna _she_her_
Really and truly.
00:02:15
Logan Dorado
Yes, like our first featured speaker at Fleming RiverCon. And this year, the event is fastly approaching. We are less than four weeks out. It will be September 21st at the Cleveland Heights Community Center.
Flaming River Con Overview
00:02:28
Logan Dorado
To get more information, you can check out FlemingRiver.com or follow us on Instagram or Facebook, just at Fleming RiverCon.
00:02:37
ryanzymler
There's literally so much cool stuff. Some of it is sitting around me. I bought this pouch ah last year at Flaming Rivercon that keeps all of my nerdy pins and buttons in it.
00:02:49
Logan Dorado
As it should.
00:02:49
ryanzymler
There's like specifically like, you know, the backs to buttons or to pins so you don't lose them.
00:02:49
Logan Dorado
I love that.
00:02:56
ryanzymler
I'm sure there's other stuff around me too.
00:02:57
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:02:58
ryanzymler
I think, and Shauna, you encouraged me to buy this.
00:02:58
Shauna _she_her_
Like, but I love a vendor.
00:03:01
ryanzymler
I love a vendor fair.
00:03:01
Shauna _she_her_
Absolutely. I did.
00:03:02
Logan Dorado
this is
00:03:03
ryanzymler
I love a vendor fair.
00:03:03
Shauna _she_her_
Right. And like, they're so targeted towards us in a really great way.
00:03:06
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:03:07
Shauna _she_her_
Like they know their target audience and I'm like, actually like, Oh wait, I don't have it here.
00:03:09
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:03:12
Shauna _she_her_
Wait, I have my, my Zagreus pillow from Hades.
00:03:15
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:03:16
Shauna _she_her_
That always is like, it's actually my back support.
00:03:17
ryanzymler
yes
00:03:19
Shauna _she_her_
So I'm going to steal it right now because I forgot to use them. But so yeah, exactly.
00:03:21
ryanzymler
Hell yeah, thirties.
00:03:25
Shauna _she_her_
But you know what?
00:03:25
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:03:25
Shauna _she_her_
You can still be a real hot nerd in your thirties and or forties.
00:03:28
ryanzymler
Hell yeah, you can.
Logan's Comic Book Passion
00:03:29
Shauna _she_her_
attending.
00:03:29
Logan Dorado
It's, yeah.
00:03:29
ryanzymler
So Logan, what are you a hot nerd about? What what gets your hot nerd? ah i There's no follow-up words that I can say there that aren't gonna be gross.
00:03:42
ryanzymler
So I'm just gonna go back to the first form of the question.
00:03:43
Shauna _she_her_
and That works.
00:03:45
ryanzymler
ah What makes you a hot nerd?
00:03:48
Logan Dorado
um You know, ah comic books,
00:03:49
Shauna _she_her_
Once more with feeling.
00:03:55
Logan Dorado
for the longest time since I basically could read has been the thing that I, for whatever reason, I i love to know everything about and just devour and consume any kind of comic. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad to the point where I feel very not seen down, but I know a lot about comics. Like you could ask me about a specific thing. Like what issue did this happen in or who drew this? And it's like, that's my thing. And it's like, can people like comic books, but like it's,
00:04:26
Logan Dorado
and know I know that it's really nerdy the way that I consume them. And then, of course, obviously the reason we're all here is Buffy. It's the same thing. We've all talked about the siblings being able to know episode titles and seasons and who did this and why this. So I feel like there's a small percentage of people that go as nerdy as I do about things. But some of that probably is just my OCD and other things coming out.
Comic Book Preferences and Origins
00:04:51
ryanzymler
Yeah, um the two things I wanted to comment on. One, um are you a general comics? Do you lean heavily more into one DC Marvel, Dark Horse, et cetera?
00:05:04
Logan Dorado
yeah Historically, it's been Marvel, um especially growing up, because that's predominantly what my older cousins read and my mom read, and that's who I got comics from. um But the older I've got, I've definitely leaned more into like indie comics. I've definitely grown into loving DC in the last few years. I've always liked DC, but it was always kind of like I never was a huge fan of I like the aesthetic of Batman, but I kind of thought his shtick was like, I was like, well, I like Spider-Man, and he doesn't have parents, and Batman doesn't have parents, and he's just a little, well, Bruce Wayne can be a little whiny, even as a kid, I was like, this guy's not having a good time.
00:05:29
Shauna _she_her_
Mm hmm.
00:05:37
ryanzymler
Right.
00:05:38
Shauna _she_her_
Right.
00:05:42
Logan Dorado
ah
00:05:43
ryanzymler
Right.
00:05:43
Shauna _she_her_
A ah billionaire is generally speaking, a lot harder to be relatable.
00:05:47
ryanzymler
True.
00:05:48
Shauna _she_her_
Like, and I think at the end of the day, like Marvel speaks to us, I think in a way is, you know, queer people and this like sense of found family where I feel like even from an early age, those themes kind of have always spoken to at least me.
00:05:48
Logan Dorado
Yeah, it's
00:06:02
Shauna _she_her_
And I think that's something like you've said in your experience, Ryan, as well.
00:06:06
Logan Dorado
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's why like for DC, when it comes to the Bat family, my I'm a big Nightwing fan. And I think that speaks to like my queerness and also the idea of found family.
00:06:06
ryanzymler
Yeah, totally.
00:06:13
Shauna _she_her_
Mm.
00:06:16
Logan Dorado
And,
Benefits of Trade Paperbacks
00:06:17
Logan Dorado
you know, that makes sense to me.
00:06:17
ryanzymler
Very bad.
00:06:20
Logan Dorado
But yeah, I definitely lean more towards Marvel and um independent comics, predominantly, but
00:06:25
ryanzymler
Yeah. Do you have any um recommendations for nerds that are looking for you know just a way to get into into indie comics like Boom Studios?
00:06:36
ryanzymler
is I think I actually own the most Boom Studios. No, between Boom Studios and...
00:06:41
Logan Dorado
Boom Studios is fantastic.
00:06:43
ryanzymler
Yeah, Boom Studios and Dark Horse um because they're both the ones that...
00:06:44
Shauna _she_her_
Just starting.
00:06:49
ryanzymler
producer release the um Buffy comic books.
00:06:52
Logan Dorado
he
00:06:53
ryanzymler
um You know, so they rebooted the Buffy verse in comics over at Boom Studios and it's been really, really great. um But like, I get overwhelmed by collecting comics.
00:07:05
ryanzymler
And so for me, focusing just on collecting Buffy comics, I was like, I am a true collector now of comics. Like, this is the one thing that I will focus on.
00:07:14
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:07:16
Logan Dorado
I think that's the big thing.
00:07:17
Shauna _she_her_
I think that's why trades have always spoken to me is because I find it so much easier to collect because I feel like then having to make sure, like the ritual of collecting every week is something that I struggled with when I was younger, let alone now as, you know, a very overscheduled adult.
00:07:19
Logan Dorado
Yes.
00:07:19
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:07:35
Shauna _she_her_
And so the ah trying to find that, like, I think that's definitely where they've always spoken to me, like,
00:07:41
Logan Dorado
Oh, absolutely.
00:07:42
ryanzymler
yeah
Challenges of Comic Collecting
00:07:42
Logan Dorado
And the price, too, honestly. Like, I understand, like, everything's gone up in the comics. um gotten more expensive so that's an accessibility issue and just tracking them down like you said week to week being an adult and I think it is nice like trades honestly like I used to be very against I'm such a like tactile person like I i was I was very like against like having a Kindle or reading online but like there are apps that you can read comics that there's marvel unlimited there's comicsology all these things that like make it more accessible to get into and I think that is important and like another thing is space you know I in the last few years I finally like really
00:07:58
ryanzymler
Same.
00:07:58
Shauna _she_her_
No.
00:08:09
ryanzymler
Yeah.
Advice for New Indie Comic Readers
00:08:16
Logan Dorado
honed in like what it is one that I want to spend money on to have the physical copy but also just having the space and moving comics is you know we it's it's not fun it's just like moving books isn't fun so I think that's definitely a thing but yeah I think trades are a good way and then just picking out an issue I know we say don't judge a book by its cover but sometimes you walk into a comic shop and you don't know where to start I said go to the indie section and see and then there's some writers who are always knocking things out of the park to like
00:08:25
ryanzymler
Yeah. Right.
00:08:31
Shauna _she_her_
You know what?
00:08:38
ryanzymler
Totally.
00:08:46
Logan Dorado
Ram V, Jeff Lemire, I think Sina Grace, not to name drop again, but Sina has been doing incredible work.
00:08:53
ryanzymler
Oh, right.
00:08:53
Logan Dorado
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with their Jonathan Kent book that's coming out soon.
00:08:53
ryanzymler
Really quickly, before we continue to use words that people don't understand, what's a trade?
00:08:59
ryanzymler
oh right
00:09:00
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:09:01
ryanzymler
really quickly before we continue to use words that people don't understand what's a trade Not in this, in this instance, what is, we we have said the word trade, Shauna, do you want to talk about what a trade is?
00:09:14
ryanzymler
And again, in this instance, not the other thing, homosexuals that are listening, not the other version of trade, great at those too.
00:09:16
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah. what Well.
00:09:21
Logan Dorado
ah
00:09:23
Shauna _she_her_
well A comic book trade paperback is a collection of comic books, usually let's say one through episodes one through 10, where a whole story will all be in one form.
00:09:36
Shauna _she_her_
So instead of the every issue that you want to save and then like kind of let logos leading to the bag and board where you put it in, you know, a little plastic baggie. So it's like maintains its form and then box it, which takes up a lot of room.
00:09:49
ryanzymler
Mm-hmm.
00:09:49
Shauna _she_her_
It's just a little thing that can go on your shelves. And so it's easier to display, easier to read. And I think it's a great jumping in point because then you can start and be like, oh, I want to read.
00:09:55
ryanzymler
Right.
00:09:58
Shauna _she_her_
Let me read this arc and I want to understand it. And it's a great way to really ah read stories because I feel like there's so much and it can be really difficult to want to be a collector and like knowing where to jump in and we're not.
00:10:11
Shauna _she_her_
And so having a like, oh, I'm going to start here. Or this is like the new writers where they jump on
Supporting Local Comic Shops
00:10:17
Shauna _she_her_
and being able to do it that way, I think is a lot easier.
00:10:18
ryanzymler
right
00:10:20
ryanzymler
Yeah, the, um, it is, ah it's also great for, what'd you say?
00:10:23
Shauna _she_her_
And still buy from your local shop.
00:10:26
Shauna _she_her_
Oh, but still make sure you buy it from your local comic book shop.
00:10:28
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:10:29
Shauna _she_her_
Just, you know, support local comic books.
00:10:29
ryanzymler
Yeah. That's, I will buy my trade.
00:10:31
Shauna _she_her_
Supporting local is very important.
00:10:33
Logan Dorado
Yes.
00:10:33
ryanzymler
Agreed. Um, and, and admit, you know, no one's perfect. I absolutely order stuff online because it's easier sometimes, but nobody's know for me.
00:10:39
Shauna _she_her_
Nobody, poverty is an effect. However, like.
00:10:41
ryanzymler
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:43
Logan Dorado
yeah if you have Yeah, if you have the means do so, but sometimes it is it is hard depending on where you are.
00:10:43
ryanzymler
I couldn't even say that version. Right.
00:10:49
ryanzymler
Right.
00:10:50
Logan Dorado
Like I was really lucky growing up.
00:10:51
ryanzymler
You can't gate keep it.
00:10:52
Logan Dorado
Yeah, no, not at all. Some people, I mean, comic shops are
00:10:54
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:10:55
Logan Dorado
closing, unfortunately, even more rapidly than they have, I feel like, in years despite the interest being high because of a lot of online sales and things like that.
00:11:02
ryanzymler
Yeah. Yeah. The last thing I'll say maybe before we move on from.
Ryan's Comics Rediscovery
00:11:10
ryanzymler
comic talk is that um like my one of my first endeavors into like really getting into reading comic books, because I didn't necessarily read comic books growing up. It was a thing that I would like dabble in. And like when I would go to the library as a kid, that was kind of always my, like I don't really know what I want to read, so I'll go look at some comics. But when I was in, I think honestly, like mid 20s,
00:11:34
ryanzymler
um a classmate of mine when I was in grad school, um Kevin lent me xmen the uncanny X-Men omnibus, and i had we had been traveling to California or something.
00:11:45
Shauna _she_her_
Mm-hmm.
00:11:48
ryanzymler
you know, it's like thick as fuck. It's like, you know, 165 issues or something.
00:11:52
Shauna _she_her_
Oh, yeah.
00:11:53
ryanzymler
It's absolutely wild. Um, and I, I consumed that as quickly as possible while we were traveling. And I was like, okay, this is how you can jump into stuff.
00:12:00
Shauna _she_her_
Oh, my. god Absolutely.
00:12:02
ryanzymler
Like you were saying, Shauna, like I have just the civil war
Trade Paperbacks and Story Arcs
00:12:06
ryanzymler
story. Like, you know, you can just get stories too.
00:12:08
Shauna _she_her_
Oh.
00:12:09
ryanzymler
They will break trades into stories.
00:12:10
Logan Dorado
Yep.
00:12:12
ryanzymler
They will break trades when there's like a good, um, like jump, ah not jumping in point, but like ah so when one story ends and the other begins, that's usually like, you know, they tend to wrap them up or keep them um lumped together for storytelling purposes.
00:12:28
Shauna _she_her_
Well, and like the visual encyclopedia for the X-Men is something I can still picture like Wolverine on the cover and like white book that like you would get from like borders like as a kid and was where I and I like
00:12:31
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:12:34
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:12:34
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:12:41
Shauna _she_her_
I know, like, that was such a, like, that was how I read about it, like, so many ways. It was like, you know, ah yeah, definitely the different ways in which generations past and present are getting their comic book information.
00:12:53
Shauna _she_her_
And I'm, like, so excited to see, like, where that keeps going.
Logan's Buffy Beginnings
00:12:57
Shauna _she_her_
That's right.
00:12:57
ryanzymler
Totally.
00:12:58
Shauna _she_her_
Thanks, Muffy.
00:12:59
ryanzymler
Back to Buffy, um which you know kind of works. So we're talking about our our nerdy stuff, um you know how long we've been doing it for. Let's talk origin stories.
00:13:10
ryanzymler
um So Logan, as our guest, do you want to tell us how you got into Buffy? What's your Buffy origin story?
00:13:17
Logan Dorado
Yeah, I feel like mine might be a little different than a lot of people. So mine is actually a product of like I mentioned earlier, my mom has was like the earliest and biggest influence on why I like nerd shit. My mom is a massive nerd and growing up she was really into like Star Trek, Star Wars comics, she's the first person to put a comic book in my hand and probably was too young to start watching Buffy right off the bat, but thanks to the good old WB and us having bunny ears TV, we could we didn't have cable, but we could still watch it. And so my mom was like, we're going to watch this show together. You know, she worked, got off work late, but every Tuesday at 8pm we would put the WB on and watch Buffy together.
00:14:01
Logan Dorado
um and I've been watching pretty much, I asked her actually, leading up to this, so and I just remember this, I was like, did we start on the first episode? She was like, I can't remember if we watched the very first one, but as that aired, it was season one for sure, and our local WB would air the previous week's episode before the new one, and I didn't remember then.
00:14:22
ryanzymler
Mm-hmm.
00:14:23
Logan Dorado
She was like, so I think it was one the in the first, like, were two to two to three she thinks that we started watching, and so that's how I found Buffy. That is very, very young. So a lot of the early jokes probably wouldn't definitely went over my head.
00:14:33
ryanzymler
that's That's... Right.
00:14:35
Logan Dorado
ah
00:14:36
Shauna _she_her_
Thank you.
00:14:36
ryanzymler
Right. What? I mean, it's just such a cool thing. I don't know, do you ever, I don't know if you listened to the podcast Slayerfest 98 Logan, but yeah, he's also similarly, um,
00:14:47
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:14:48
ryanzymler
got put onto it by his, his mom. And I, I just think that's so cool. I didn't really get that kind of stuff. Like my parents didn't, my parents and I didn't really bond over anything like that.
00:14:57
Logan Dorado
yeah
00:14:58
ryanzymler
um But I know Shauna, you're definitely trying to do that with your kiddo, but um do you want to maybe talk about your Buffy origin story?
00:15:03
Shauna _she_her_
Absolutely.
Relating to Buffy
00:15:07
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah, so for me, I think. I was always kind of around it. Like I remember being at a friend's house, like from like, cause we, I'd hang out with like my comic bookshop friends and like they put on the first episode of Buffy I technically ever saw was the finale.
00:15:22
Shauna _she_her_
Cause it was just on in the background and I was like, Oh, okay.
00:15:22
ryanzymler
Oh, right.
00:15:25
Shauna _she_her_
And I didn't think anything of it. But then, you know, when I was coming to terms with coming out as a trans woman and was like, Buffy was one of those first shows that I watched during that period.
00:15:37
Shauna _she_her_
And I was like, Oh. And I really saw myself in Buffy Summers. Like I really, the way that she always handled adversity with wit and what keeping, you know, while being strong, but still showing vulnerability.
00:15:47
ryanzymler
Mm hmm.
00:15:52
Shauna _she_her_
And like she, someone who she found like a lot of, you know, her friend circle and like family looking to, even as she's feeling everything and all the pressure, like those were all things that really spoke to me about the character.
00:16:04
Shauna _she_her_
And the show ended up being a really like great, like, It was it's one of, it's been now one of my loves for the past decade plus ever since.
00:16:14
ryanzymler
Yeah, I similarly, um you know, I didn't really jump in at the beginning. I do have one odd memory of like, I think maybe season two, the Halloween episode.
00:16:30
Logan Dorado
Mmm.
00:16:30
ryanzymler
I think I remember seeing that in real time on TV when it aired.
00:16:36
ryanzymler
um And then I also remember the run, like the marketing campaign, um leading up to Buffy being revived on ah UPN and I remember like the you know the Xander cut and the there was like a willow cut and I've since like kind of watched them again on YouTube and I'm like oh shit I do remember this like I
00:16:46
Logan Dorado
P.N. Heh heh. Mmm.
00:17:02
ryanzymler
but ah mine was deeply, my Buffy origin story was deeply connected to the fact that I've just always liked the girls in stuff.
00:17:05
Shauna _she_her_
Okay.
00:17:10
Shauna _she_her_
Hmm.
00:17:12
ryanzymler
So um my, you know, Pink Ranger, Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, Batgirl, they're just those, they're my girls. Like I, they they instilled this sense of like,
00:17:27
ryanzymler
It equated femininity with strength in ways that I had already sort of seen from the women in my family, but at the same hand, seeing it you know portrayed and in media and then also seeing it in myself that you know I was a little femme.
00:17:46
ryanzymler
and I don't think I ever had that switch moment to be like, oh, girls can be heroes. I just think it was always there.
00:17:53
Logan Dorado
Always there.
00:17:53
ryanzymler
Like girls will beat your ass.
00:17:54
Shauna _she_her_
Sure.
00:17:56
ryanzymler
And so by the time I got to high school, I, you know, I had started, I was a little bit more vocal about it.
00:17:56
Shauna _she_her_
Right.
Identifying with Heroes
00:18:02
ryanzymler
Everyone knew, I mean, not everyone knew, but whatever in conversation, enough people knew me to know that that was my. That was my zhuzh, like I pick the girl characters and stuff when we're playing video games. And this guy, Jamie Scott, shout out to Jamie. um We were in sophomore English class together. And um I remember he like turned around and said something because I think we were doing, we were in season for the musical, which was ah the music man that year. And um i I just remember him saying like, you do know that there's a Buffy musical, right? And I was like, there's a what?
00:18:40
ryanzymler
And ah you know ah those the the open seas of the internet, as it were, um I took a lot of advantage of of um the open seas of the internet and so I i procured ah several random episodes starting with um Buffy starting with Once More with Feeling and that was the I think the very first episode I ever watched all the way through um which sets a pretty high fucking bar because the characters are settled in that episode like
00:19:14
ryanzymler
It's you also get exposition in a very different way. But I think what made me be like, yo, what the fuck is this is um when she kisses Spike at the end, because I only knew Spike as a villain.
00:19:25
Logan Dorado
Mmm.
00:19:27
ryanzymler
And I was like, well, what could have gotten us here that she's making out with Spike? And I was just invested and I started going back and I got I you know started buying seasons on DVDs and I still have all seven because when, you know, the apocalypse comes, beat me, um I will still have access to my favorite television show.
00:19:53
Shauna _she_her_
So I think something that, oh, I just wanted to thinking about the point you made about how like growing up, you always found yourself drawn to like these like great strong women characters.
00:19:53
ryanzymler
and And... No, go ahead, please.
00:20:06
Shauna _she_her_
And I think that really, I find that very like juxtaposed to like my experience where I felt often very reluctant to identify early with those kinds of characters for fear that because like,
00:20:20
Shauna _she_her_
that like knowing something's up but not sure what it is, kind of feeling like, like will they know if I pick that? that that i like Will they then use it against me?
00:20:26
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:20:27
ryanzymler
That's me.
00:20:29
Shauna _she_her_
will they like you know and like Because that's so how like something that I know.
00:20:30
ryanzymler
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:30
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:20:34
Shauna _she_her_
I definitely felt very strongly, not just like in my 20s especially, but like before that growing up, like you know I could usually, like but at the same time also like being drawn to like a lot of shows.
00:20:47
Shauna _she_her_
like you know, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Sister Sister, like those like staple kinds of shows that were like some of my absolute favorites as a kid, you know, like where like they were like appointment television in many ways, but like it felt different in those kinds of ways versus like the superhero where like, well, why wouldn't you just pick the boy one?
00:20:50
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:20:51
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:20:56
ryanzymler
Same.
00:21:03
Logan Dorado
Mm
00:21:06
ryanzymler
Right.
00:21:07
Shauna _she_her_
Like, and so like, I found, right, like, and I, but I often then found myself drawn to characters that wear masks.
00:21:07
ryanzymler
There's so many boys. Why wouldn't you just be the boy?
00:21:08
Logan Dorado
hmm.
00:21:14
ryanzymler
Mm-hmm.
00:21:14
Shauna _she_her_
And I often find myself characters that were found themselves like hidden in that kind of way.
00:21:16
ryanzymler
Shit.
00:21:19
ryanzymler
Shit, Shauna, that's deep.
00:21:20
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:21:21
Shauna _she_her_
she Right. Like.
00:21:24
ryanzymler
That's fucking deep.
00:21:26
Shauna _she_her_
And I never knew why. And so I was like, Oh, I bet there was that element of like.
00:21:32
Logan Dorado
Oh yeah, 100%.
00:21:33
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:21:33
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah.
00:21:34
Logan Dorado
Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a whole, I'm sure, i um I know there is like sociological study on queerness and superheroes and like like that specifically, like who likes or who was drawn to.
00:21:48
Logan Dorado
Like even you saying that thinking back, I'm like, yeah, I always liked, like obviously Wolverine. Hello. Um, but preferred him to be drawn with the suit on. Like when they started really like leaning into Logan Sands mask, I was like, this doesn't look as cool as I wanted to.
00:22:03
Logan Dorado
And then you say that and I'm like, Oh, that makes sense. Cause now I'm like, Oh yeah, that's fine.
00:22:06
Shauna _she_her_
um
00:22:06
Logan Dorado
Show his face. But yeah.
00:22:08
Shauna _she_her_
No, but like Cyclops, Daredevil, like all of those kinds of like, yep, heck even Gambit, like the kind of like.
00:22:08
ryanzymler
Yeah, right, right.
00:22:14
Logan Dorado
Oh yeah.
00:22:17
Logan Dorado
Oh, 100%.
00:22:18
ryanzymler
This could be a wig underneath. That's really, that's really what it is. It's just to hide the bad hairline just to show that it's a wig.
00:22:23
Shauna _she_her_
That's true.
Strong Female Influences
00:22:25
ryanzymler
Logan was when your mom like sort of brought Buffy to you, did you know, did she, did you get that sort of like social justice-y part of it too? Like, just so you know, girls can be heroes, like, or was it just like, here's some shit that I think you'll like, um or that you're gonna watch with me because I wanna watch it and you're here. um did Did you get the whole package or was it just, you know, the show?
00:22:53
Logan Dorado
I did, um obviously back then, you know, in the 90s, my mom didn't really have the language, but she was very much the same.
00:22:58
ryanzymler
Right.
00:22:59
Logan Dorado
um She gravitated obviously towards like very strong female characters. Like to this day, my mom's email is a Jean Grey reference in every email that I think she's ever had.
00:23:07
ryanzymler
Shut up.
00:23:10
Logan Dorado
Yes.
00:23:10
ryanzymler
Wow.
00:23:11
Logan Dorado
Yeah. Any nonprofessional email that she's ever had in her life has always been a reference to Jean Grey. That is her main.
00:23:17
Shauna _she_her_
Very fine.
00:23:19
ryanzymler
Your mom's really cool.
00:23:19
Logan Dorado
um
00:23:20
ryanzymler
Your mom's really cool.
00:23:20
Logan Dorado
she she's She's a delight. Um, but yeah, like she was always like, you know, like, you know, especially like me or my mom, my mom is white. My dad is Filipino, but she always wanted me to know, like, you know, no matter what it even says, you can also be strong. Like my mom is just as bad ass woman. She was diagnosed with MS when I was six and she's still around and mobile and like, but it was the same thing. Like she liked seeing strong female characters.
00:23:43
Logan Dorado
on screen or reading or like in a book or on the page. So for her, she always ingrained that into me. It's like, it doesn't matter what everyone else says about you.
00:23:48
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:23:51
Logan Dorado
It's about who you are as a person and what you do with that. And like, I've kind of just always carried that with me. And
Critique of Joss Whedon
00:23:57
Logan Dorado
I think for her scene, Buffy was just like the opposite. Also of how she grew up, like, you know, Buffy's in Southern California and like all this stuff.
00:24:03
Logan Dorado
My mom's like, I live in ah the middle of nowhere, Ohio, my whole life. But like that thread was there. And I think that she, I mean, to this day she talks about how influential on her as adult and an adult
00:24:08
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:24:08
Shauna _she_her_
Mm.
00:24:12
Logan Dorado
Buffy is and was.
00:24:16
ryanzymler
Yeah, and following that thread of um the baked in feminism of it, I think we need to take one quick detour to talk about um the
00:24:32
ryanzymler
jackass behind it all. So um for folks that are unaware, ah Buffy was originally a movie created by Joss Whedon. The movie is High Camp.
00:24:46
ryanzymler
Unfortunately, Christy Sutherland, the girl that plays the very first Buffy, ah ended up being a very out loud Trump supporter and ah unfortunately told us all that on Twitter.
00:24:52
Shauna _she_her_
All right.
00:24:55
ryanzymler
So now it's even easier to say there is only one Buffy Summers. We don't recognize the other one. um
00:25:01
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:25:02
ryanzymler
because she's wack and so is the guy that made her. um However, Joss Whedon always positioned himself as this sort of like feminist, ah you know, he's the one that's writing these characters this way and creating these opportunities for women. His whole pitch for Buffy was like, you know, what if in the horror movie the blonde girl that's getting chased ends up saving the day?
00:25:29
ryanzymler
And it is a really cool concept, and it was such a traditional flip on what we were used to. And and I think the fact that Sarah Michelle Geller specifically was in horror movies and was killed in those horror movies, um you know, the blonde girl can win. The blonde girl can be the final girl, if you will.
00:25:49
ryanzymler
um And unfortunately, um we have learned a lot over the past probably like 10, 15 years um about how Joss Whedon behaved and how he misused his power and abused his power and did real harm to people.
Joss Whedon's Abusive Behavior
00:26:07
ryanzymler
um We got a little bit of a firsthand account from Charisma Carpenter, who plays Cordelia Chase in the first three seasons of Buffy. And then ah in the four seasons of Angel,
00:26:19
ryanzymler
um And basically we learned that ah his, you know, violence and control was so ah deep that when Charisma Carpenter found out she was pregnant, he asked her if she was going to keep it and she said yes. And so he wrote the pregnancy in, in the grossest, weirdest way possible that stripped all agency from the character and then killed her.
00:26:40
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:26:45
ryanzymler
And that was one of the things that everyone knew was like, if you piss Joss off, um he will write you out. He'll kill you off. So no one ever said anything. Kind of like peak abuse of power, ah you know, hostile workplace.
00:27:00
ryanzymler
um you know, behavior. And so a lot of us that are Buffy fans have really, but I mean, initially
Critically Consuming Buffy
00:27:11
ryanzymler
struggled. I don't feel weird about it at all now, but um so Shauna Logan, how do you, how do you feel about, you know, still consuming Buffy content when we know so much about the person that created it. And you know I'll save mine. I know what your both of your answers are, but you know for our for our listeners, how do you how do we critically consume things like that?
00:27:34
Shauna _she_her_
Well, I think the most important thing is that you attempt to critically consume it, because to not think about it and to ignore it is the only wrong way to go about it, in my opinion.
00:27:39
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:27:45
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:27:45
Shauna _she_her_
And I think that for me personally, what I always try and think about is, especially for Buffy, that it is so much more than Joss Whedon, that the actors, the episode writers, the showrunners, there's a real in the effect that the show has had on people.
00:28:03
Shauna _she_her_
I think is such a overall positive that it is that it is so it's lived so much past Joss Whedon. And I think that
00:28:15
Shauna _she_her_
I think especially considering that he really did purport himself to be this like feminist hero icon. like This is what a man supporting women should be. like He was put on that pedestal for so long while under cutting the exact ways in which he was that he was said to be elevating.
00:28:27
ryanzymler
For so long
00:28:35
Shauna _she_her_
And I think there, you know, I think that always goes to show sometimes be careful of people who are too quick to, you know, see how much they're, you know, how much they're doing for,
00:28:36
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:28:45
Logan Dorado
Yes.
Supporting Other Creators
00:28:47
ryanzymler
Tea. Tea. Yeah.
00:28:47
Shauna _she_her_
you know, this group or that group, and especially as an out member, I think being it just as seems like it can be such a red flag of like,
00:28:57
Shauna _she_her_
But I think that's where at least I like i do enjoy the works and writings of Joss Whedon. I think he's a very talented man, and for for better or for worse. And I think that, but unfortunately, like there's nothing I can do about that other than be aware and you know make sure supporting all the other people who involved in Buffy.
00:29:13
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:29:19
Logan Dorado
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I i definitely agree. like It's one of those things where, like i like you said, I absolutely adore his work. you know There are parts of it, obviously, that are problematic, and now knowing who he is, that makes sense.
00:29:31
Logan Dorado
So like looking back on it and rewatching, you can see that.
00:29:33
Shauna _she_her_
It's waiting.
00:29:34
Logan Dorado
And I think it's one of those things where once you have the knowledge about a creator and their actions or their views, and then looking then you see it under that guy like through that lens,
00:29:46
Logan Dorado
And then, you know, that moving forward when they produce other work or are working on things like, ge you you know, for me, I wouldn't give him any more of my, any money, any money and directly for something.
00:29:54
ryanzymler
Sure.
00:29:56
Logan Dorado
Like if he came out and was like, I'm directing this thing specifically, you know, but like buying the comics, I have my Buffy comics.
00:29:59
ryanzymler
Sure.
00:30:02
Logan Dorado
He's still connected to that. I, you know, I, by second hand, I still have some of his astonishing X-Men comics because like that was a great run, you know, a fantastic run.
00:30:11
ryanzymler
A great run. Oh my god, a great run.
00:30:14
Logan Dorado
And you know, I'm obviously a huge Marvel fan and he worked on the Avengers movies, but it's it's one of those things where like you can pick up on it. Like, you know, there are things that are trying to ensure that you see in his works now that go back to like, he was so loud about being a feminist and it's like, no, you really
Realizing Problematic Behaviors
00:30:27
Logan Dorado
weren't.
00:30:27
Logan Dorado
And like the self insert, which I'm sure we'll talk about another in his works. And I think it's one of those things just, yeah,
00:30:31
Shauna _she_her_
You mean the worst part of Buffy? Xander?
00:30:34
ryanzymler
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:35
Logan Dorado
you mean, yeah.
00:30:35
Shauna _she_her_
Like...
00:30:37
Logan Dorado
the The Bruce and Natasha room quote unquote romance in the Avengers movies where, you know, it mimics this idea
00:30:42
Shauna _she_her_
The signs were so there. Like, in hindsight, the...
00:30:44
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:30:45
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:30:46
Logan Dorado
Yeah. But you know, at the time you have those rose-coloring glasses on because you love this thing so much and you don't know anything about him. So like, why would you, why would you read it that way on initial watch?
00:30:54
Shauna _she_her_
Absolutely.
00:30:57
Logan Dorado
And then when it all came out, it's like, Oh yeah. Okay. Got it. But I can't fault people who aren't as into it when they find Buffy, like if they don't have that knowledge or not of him, you know, cause it's already kind of not forgotten, but like it doesn't get talked about.
00:31:07
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:31:13
Logan Dorado
in larger circles, you know, we all, which is nice that.
00:31:15
Shauna _she_her_
Right. It's very niche. like This director who does have a big profile, but ultimately at the end of the day, like c certain and you know like Twitter isn't everywhere. like Remembering that it's this small circle sometimes is really easy when you're in like those kinds of nerdy spaces to know that that's not every space.
00:31:26
Logan Dorado
Exactly.
00:31:27
ryanzymler
Right.
00:31:33
Shauna _she_her_
And
Ethical Consumption Discussion
00:31:34
Shauna _she_her_
that's not how everybody consumes things.
00:31:34
ryanzymler
and i And I do think that there's like there's you know there's levels to it, right?
00:31:35
Logan Dorado
exactly
00:31:39
ryanzymler
like So um kind of like you all are saying, Buffy has gotten so much bigger than just that one person. So you know even to your point, um Logan, you know buying secondhand or trying to find out figure out ways to um have as little of my money go to him as possible,
00:31:58
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:31:59
ryanzymler
um you know that's that is one of That's just one of the ways that we do it. It's one of the ways that we try to critically consume something. I know I don't want my money going to him, but you know for the comics, for example, I don't know how pay scales work. i don't you know i'm not a ah ah I don't know that much around ah intellectual property.
00:32:20
ryanzymler
but you know, the right, I want to pay those writers. I want to pay those artists.
00:32:23
Logan Dorado
Yeah, absolutely.
00:32:24
ryanzymler
I want to pay those, like, so to withhold my money from, you know, huge groups of people that are working on a project for one person. But like you said, you know, if he's directing something, if he is putting something out that is like, it's his project and it's a new thing, I'm super not interested.
00:32:46
ryanzymler
um Even you know i thinking about like musicians, the ah notorious sex predator who preyed on black girls that's in jail, I go out of my way to find ways to turn it off in public.
00:32:52
Logan Dorado
Mm-hmm.
00:33:03
ryanzymler
Like, I don't need to hear, that's, you know, sort of a direct connection.
00:33:04
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:33:07
ryanzymler
That's his voice, his music, his song.
00:33:09
Logan Dorado
Yes.
00:33:10
ryanzymler
um And i don't I don't want that around me. So I will say things like, isn't it gross to think this song is probably about a child?
00:33:15
Logan Dorado
It
00:33:17
ryanzymler
And then it usually like really bums out.
00:33:18
Logan Dorado
shuts it down.
00:33:20
ryanzymler
Yeah. um And I will argue with people. I mean, I'll argue with people over most things, but like that is like a different level of um of sort of critical consumption in the sense that I will not consume it in any way, shape, or form by choice.
00:33:38
ryanzymler
um And so things like Buffy where half the time I think some of the stuff with Buffy is I like to hear other people talk about it too.
00:33:49
ryanzymler
So like I listen to Buffy podcasts and then that inspires me to go listen or like you know rewatch an episode. And so you know the content is so vast.
00:33:57
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:34:00
ryanzymler
like I'm reading Tales of a Slayer right now.
00:34:01
Logan Dorado
Mm-hmm.
00:34:02
ryanzymler
like the content is so vast you can stay in that world and still um recognize like the place that this came from is gross and toxic and like you said it did show up in a lot of ways um and also I feel like there's enough distance between the product that I'm holding and the original creator that it makes it a little bit easier to um I guess honestly live with myself because we definitely, um we all make unethical choices.
00:34:40
ryanzymler
It's like, it's very hard to live ethically and under capitalism.
00:34:43
Shauna _she_her_
Absolutely.
00:34:43
ryanzymler
And so there is always a little buzz in the back of my head.
00:34:44
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:34:44
Shauna _she_her_
and there
00:34:47
ryanzymler
Like, you know, you shouldn't, but if I can put things in place um that buzz gets a little bit quieter so that I can still find fucking joy in this world.
00:34:55
Logan Dorado
Well, that's the thing.
00:34:56
Shauna _she_her_
Right.
00:34:56
Logan Dorado
I mean, it's
Complexity of Consumption Under Capitalism
00:34:56
Shauna _she_her_
I think that, yeah.
00:34:58
Logan Dorado
yeah, it's the good place problem.
00:35:00
Logan Dorado
You know, I don't know if you both have watched that show, but it's it's like, you know, if you trace it back far enough, everything is unethical.
00:35:00
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:35:05
Logan Dorado
So I think it's it's just being conscious of that and trying to do it. as often and frequently as possible, but it it is impossible to do it 100% of the time.
00:35:16
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah, because every situation is different too.
00:35:17
Logan Dorado
And there's such little joy.
00:35:17
ryanzymler
Right.
00:35:19
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:35:19
ryanzymler
Right. So let's, you know, in that same vein, um we have you know, the characters before, yeah you know, as we got older, um you know, you start focusing more on like the writing and the scene direction. And like, for example, thinking about the fashion of Buffy, like I recreate Buffy outfits in my mind. My friend Ryan, shout out Ryan, um you know, we were playing this game on my front porch one day where he would literally just Google a random episode of Buffy, show me a picture and ask like,
00:35:53
ryanzymler
you know, what's this from? And I could tell you, based on her outfit, see you know, what scene it is, what's happening in the scene, what episode it is, what season it is.
Character Relatability in Buffy
00:36:01
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:36:01
ryanzymler
So, you know, the the universe of Buffy is so broad, but what brings it all to reality, what makes us actually connect at first, is the characters.
00:36:14
ryanzymler
So, let's talk faves, least faves. um Who was wasted? like What characters did we not get enough of? um Shauna, who are who are your your top characters?
00:36:29
Shauna _she_her_
I think my top character that I want to highlight that isn't what that it's she gets to be part of the main cast moving forward after like she's originally introduced as like a one-off, but I love Anya.
00:36:42
Logan Dorado
Mm.
00:36:42
ryanzymler
Yes. Yes!
00:36:42
Shauna _she_her_
Anya is one of my absolute favorites.
00:36:44
Logan Dorado
Yes.
00:36:44
Shauna _she_her_
She's like one of my favorite of the archetype of characters who don't people well. like is just very like I love a great dozen people well person, like she's and she's so good at that.
00:36:48
Logan Dorado
fifty Yeah.
00:36:54
Shauna _she_her_
And so I definitely like she's so funny, but has heart. Ultimately, he has her character grows and changes.
00:37:00
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:37:01
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:37:02
Shauna _she_her_
And, you know, I think the fact that Xander left her, she was so much better off for it. Like, what a great like, man, she even was willing to fucking fall for Xander.
00:37:09
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:37:12
Shauna _she_her_
Like, speaking of like least favorite, but.
00:37:13
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:37:13
Logan Dorado
It might be the most human thing, though, is a really great woman falling for a very terrible man.
00:37:15
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:37:18
ryanzymler
Right.
00:37:18
Shauna _she_her_
Really, who hasn't who hasn't fallen for a real white like relatable.
00:37:22
ryanzymler
Right.
00:37:25
ryanzymler
And obviously, um you know one of the things that Logan alluded to earlier is is Xander is Joss's proxy. you know xander is him Xander is what Joss wishes he could be in a lot of ways.
00:37:39
ryanzymler
So he pull he's disgusting. He's foul. He does not grow as a character throughout the entire series. like He is the same person, just ah older and um with one less eye by the end of the series.
00:37:52
Logan Dorado
fuck
00:37:53
ryanzymler
But he pulls Cordelia Chase, the baddest bitch in Sunnydale.
00:37:59
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:38:00
ryanzymler
He pulls Anya, a fucking vengeance demon, and gets her to become a a human being because she loves him so much. like That would never happen.
00:38:11
ryanzymler
which I mean, he you know he was married and his wife has come out, his ex-wife has come out and said how terrible he is, but blah, blah, blah.
00:38:11
Logan Dorado
No.
00:38:15
Logan Dorado
Obviously Oz, I feel like, I mean, no one can see me right now, but it checks out the line.
00:38:17
ryanzymler
Anyways, Xander's not anyone's favorite. um Logan, who's in your who's in your ah top faves?
Favorite Characters
00:38:23
Logan Dorado
obviously oz i feel like i mean you no one can see me right now but it checks out the line and line tracks on that one.
00:38:29
ryanzymler
100%.
00:38:30
Logan Dorado
Um, and I also feel like his character was a little bit wasted, but we we get a lot of great moments with him.
00:38:32
ryanzymler
Dad.
00:38:36
Logan Dorado
Um, I think, I think Giles for me is definitely up there.
00:38:36
Shauna _she_her_
Hmm.
00:38:41
Logan Dorado
Um, and, and Faith, those are probably, I think I can concretely say my top three
00:38:42
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah.
00:38:45
Shauna _she_her_
That's our proof.
00:38:48
ryanzymler
My girl.
00:38:49
Logan Dorado
And money Anya is very close, but there's Eliza Dushka. I just, I love everything about her. I love everything about Faith. Even when she shows up an angel, I was so excited.
00:39:01
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:39:01
Logan Dorado
It was great. She's wonderful.
00:39:03
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:39:04
Logan Dorado
And yeah.
00:39:05
ryanzymler
I have a, I have a really hard time because yeah I think ah we're all kind of just saying like, you know, Buffy's up there depending on how she's being written and, and, you know, what the situation is.
00:39:16
ryanzymler
She might not always be my favorite, but as a character, she's pretty solidly, you know, up there. She, she's number zero. Like she's not the title.
00:39:23
Logan Dorado
Exactly. 100%. Yeah.
00:39:25
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:39:25
Shauna _she_her_
It's yeah, no.
00:39:25
ryanzymler
She's like not the character.
00:39:26
Logan Dorado
Yeah. That's unspoken for me.
00:39:26
Shauna _she_her_
And I think, but honestly, I feel very similar about Willow too, for that matter.
00:39:27
Logan Dorado
Yeah. I can't, I.
00:39:27
ryanzymler
Yeah.
00:39:30
Shauna _she_her_
I feel like she's also very like, right.
00:39:31
ryanzymler
Oh yeah, Willow's 0.5.
00:39:34
Shauna _she_her_
Like, and then cause I was thinking like, Oh, who are my favorite? I'm like, well, like I love Spike. I think Spike is one of my favorite characters and the, like, and I love
00:39:39
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:39:40
ryanzymler
Mm-hmm.
00:39:42
Shauna _she_her_
his interactions with Drusilla and with Angel.
00:39:45
Logan Dorado
Oh God. Yeah.
00:39:45
Shauna _she_her_
like you know we were As we were getting our technical maladies on Malady at the beginning of this, we were talking about how much
Favorite Seasons and Slayers
00:39:53
Shauna _she_her_
season two is a real fun season.
00:39:53
ryanzymler
Yes.
00:39:56
Shauna _she_her_
But honestly, for me, the best parts of season two are when Angelus, Drew, and Spike are all together and being this
00:40:02
Logan Dorado
oh yeah
00:40:05
Shauna _she_her_
weird polyamorous very gay for each other like always like i was like oh you know they have fun on their in their side adventures especially with like yeah it just yeah those are like some of the best parts for me hmm
00:40:14
ryanzymler
Totally.
00:40:19
ryanzymler
Yeah, my I haven't really heard time because I think Faith is my favorite slayer, but there's Kendra and you know the pro black woman part of me is like, Kendra has to be my favorite slayer.
00:40:33
ryanzymler
I see my video glitching out, that's really strange.
00:40:33
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:40:35
Shauna _she_her_
Okay, i I wasn't sure if you saw that, like I was like, okay.
00:40:36
ryanzymler
Yeah, I see that it's happening.
00:40:37
Logan Dorado
Yeah.
00:40:39
ryanzymler
Maybe maybe it's because I started talking about Kendra
00:40:43
Shauna _she_her_
Adam's hacked into the system and he's like, how dare you do not like me?
00:40:45
ryanzymler
No, it's Malcolm from season twos.
00:40:47
Logan Dorado
I was gonna say it's Malcolm.
00:40:48
Shauna _she_her_
Oh God.
00:40:49
ryanzymler
Yeah, yeah. um But I think Faith is my favorite Slayer. um Cordelia is another one of my favorite characters. The growth of her is just next level.
00:40:57
Shauna _she_her_
Yeah. yeah
00:40:57
Logan Dorado
Oh yeah.
00:41:01
ryanzymler
um the I think the third one would probably be Giles. um his you know He's just so dreamy and handsome.
00:41:15
ryanzymler
and also like such a great father figure and he's got depth and like the moments that he really steps into his um deep affection for Buffy.
00:41:27
ryanzymler
So like, you know, like season three, helpless when, you know, he has to take her powers away or even shit, prophecy girl, when he realizes that Buffy is going to die and he's like, oh no, then I just have to kill the master.
00:41:27
Logan Dorado
Mmhmm.
00:41:33
Logan Dorado
Oh yeah.
00:41:41
ryanzymler
Like, He is such a great father figure.
00:41:45
ryanzymler
I think we all need Agiles in our life.