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SUMMER ROAD TRIP - New York & North Carolina
107 Plays3 years ago
WE'RE BACK!!!!! After a short, unexpected break, we are back and ready go to!
New York (1:30 - 29:03) - Lisa takes us on Part 2 of her trip that started in New Jersey and follows through to New York - with the Torso Killer. The list of victims and information is heard primarily in New Jersey and the resolution is in New York, where one woman puts behind her pain to help others still in the dark with their loved ones.
North Carolina (29:08 - 1:39:22) Faith takes us to the town of Fayetteville to discuss, argue and ponder the horrific case that is the Eastburn Family Murders. The man behind them, and the questions we are all left with.
We would love to hear from you, you guys (and the love of crime stories) are what keep us going, so please feel free to send us an email twistedtalestruecrime@gmail.com or come visit us on our social medias where we will post photos, articles and extras!
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Have a fantastic week - stay healthy and safe!
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Transcript
Return from Break
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to a another episode of twisted tales after our Very unexpected sabbatical. Sorry about that
00:00:12
Speaker
This is Faith. This is Lisa. And for those of you who follow us on social media, you will know that after our episode of New Jersey and New Hampshire about two and a half weeks ago, which I promised you would not have to wait for the next episode of New York. That's what happens when you make promises you don't know if you can keep.
00:00:33
Speaker
Yep.
Apologies and Continuation
00:00:34
Speaker
I lied. And, um, Lisa's dad had a heart attack and had to have pretty quick emergency open heart surgery. Yep. And you've all heard us talk about the fact that her aunt lives with him. So Lisa, um, became a caretaker as well as everything going on in our lives at work. So, well, double, double there.
00:00:52
Speaker
caretaker because your child child, too. Yeah. So child, child, you can't do anything like you had that. That's your responsibility. Things just got a little chaotic. And I just didn't quite have time to do the research and nor be able to sit down for like an hour or so and actually have a podcast without being interrupted. There were a lot of emotions going on. So we apologize for the hiatus. It was unintentional. Wasn't wanted at all. But that's where we're at. So we're back. He's happy. So we're here.
Manhattan Murders Unveiled
00:01:22
Speaker
And
00:01:22
Speaker
You will finally get to hear part two of Lisa's story from New York. We are I was in New Jersey last week, so.
00:01:31
Speaker
By last week, she means two and a half weeks ago. So feel free to go to Spotify and listen to that episode if you'd like. I should have listened to it again, but there were a lot of deaths. There's a list of women that died and what my entire increasingly was horrific ways. Young girls. So we're picking up with that now.
00:01:58
Speaker
And so would you look at that? I'm going to start out with another story. There you go. December 2nd, 1979. The police and the fire department were called to a hotel in Manhattan. Where's Manhattan Faith? In New York. In New York. So we were in Jersey before, but now we're in New York. So this is kind of odd. Why is it odd? Let's keep going.
00:02:24
Speaker
So the fire department arrived upon receiving a call from a maid that saw smoke coming out of the hotel room at that time. She couldn't get the door open. Didn't exactly want to just barge her way in there. So they called 911. They show up. The fire department knocked the door down and they enter. And what they entered into was just like a dark cloud of smoke. They could see little bits and pieces, but what they could see was like a fire.
00:02:53
Speaker
It was a fire, yes, but it was a very, I don't know, it was a very weak fire, but it was, it was mostly like just a lot of smoke that was happening in the room at that time. Okay. So they, they proceed to walk in and smokes cover and everything's hazy. And they see what looked to be two victims laying on twin beds. We've escalated again.
00:03:16
Speaker
to one of the one of the firemen ran to one of the victims and began CPR and was completely thrown back literally into the wall when he realized that she had no head and no hands. Oh, that is a bad like he'd started CPR. Oh, snap. Yeah, I bet he freaked out. I'm sure he had compression one and walk away. If it were me personally, I'd be like, dude, I gotta go. I can't. I'm out. I'm out.
00:03:46
Speaker
So they clear out the scene, the smoke clears out, they get the fire put out, and they realize that this is a very weak arson attempt. If they really wanted to set this place on fire, it'd be on fire. They were more or less drawing attention to what
Challenges of 1979 Investigations
00:04:02
Speaker
was left. To what was there. Exactly my point. So they discovered there were actually two female victims.
00:04:11
Speaker
I'm going to time out for just two seconds while the kids go through, because I don't want to start talking about the things here. They were both, they both have been decapitated. Both hands were taken. Yeah. He took, he took away identifying.
00:04:26
Speaker
so on uh this was kind of the first part of a documentary that i had seen on netflix which you guys should go watch it i haven't finished the whole thing faith interrupted me um but uh some of the officers and the things that they were saying they were like this was very deliberate like as far as you don't accidentally remove a head and hands no no the fire was deliberate
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, like you said, they were trying to draw attention to. Yeah, he took away all identifying and then he left his little trophies for people to find. And one of the detectives just straight upset that like, guys, this is 1979. We're in the early eighties right now. We're not going to be discovering. There's not DNA. There's nothing right now. Nine years or eight years, some crazy like that. And I'm not going to sit here trying to like, I know exact facts here. So they start to try to solve this case. And so now I'm going to skip just a little bit.
00:05:16
Speaker
Okay. Cause so I read in a different column that during this time, there was actually a, cause we have the torso killer, right? Yeah. And that was my previous episode. So I keep wanting to say a week ago and it was not a week ago. And he was the torso killer in New Jersey and he was doing the same kind of different random, like whatever, but now in Manhattan, we have this completely different scenario. But even if you, if you go back and listen to the New Jersey episode,
00:05:44
Speaker
Like he killed all the women that you rattled through. There were several different methods of death and he escalated each time. Like he started taking the hands first, I think, and then the heads, but it wasn't like before that, he was just like, he was still perfecting his, his, his MO before he got to New York. Correct. So just because it's slightly different theory at that time was that they weren't the same person.
00:06:11
Speaker
They were not? They were not the same person. So you remember the Criminal Minds reference? They just didn't want to share jurisdictions. Yeah, well, that's a strong point. But do you remember the reference to Criminal Minds that I talked about the last time? Yeah. And you were in, oh, blah, blah, blah. I thought maybe Frank because, you know, Frank was the tour. He was leaving people in the desert with just the torso. Yeah. That's what I kind of thought when I was getting into this. But no, I actually remembered that episode very well. And it was when there were two serial killers on the loose. One was killing prostitutes and the other was just killing random women that was helping
00:06:40
Speaker
Um, him find his lost kid. I'm putting that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can't see. Okay. It was also a very great episode, but Eddie Cibrian was in that one. No, that was that the different father with their son. Wow. Father with the son. That was where he's cracking open breastbones and killing them that way. Yeah. Yeah. That was ripping their heart out.
Serial Killers and Rodney Alcala
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah. Eddie Cibrian's hot. Yeah. I'm just throwing that out there. Those dimples. Oh, the whole package though.
00:07:09
Speaker
The dimples, the eyes, yum. Back on track. So now we've got another horrendous crime scene that these people are investigating, two things that are being very much investigated separately. At this point, there was no justification or reason to think any of these crimes were linked whatsoever. Not only that, you're talking about like the 70s and 80s. So things weren't as like, you know, computerized. You couldn't just go look up other
00:07:39
Speaker
Cases and things that are going on and put all these like these things in a database Yeah, but nowadays you can at least put it in like a search basis and see if they're like similar crimes then you had nothing unless I Know we had a lot of there was a lot of things that were happening to the other victims in New Jersey Now I will say I think there wasn't there one that yeah
00:08:09
Speaker
So I could see where there'd be a boundary line and saying, this can't be the same guy. It's totally different because the other guys using bindings and handcuffs and tying their hands behind their backs or leaving them wherever just to be failed. And now these people were found with a fire. So different. Well, I think he wanted. Yeah, he wanted he wanted that to be failed. A hundred percent. So now.
00:08:32
Speaker
Before I get going on on too much more, I'm going to start. I'm going to give you a little bio of a person. Okay. It's not going to give you the name because that's fine. My little secret. So, uh, let's see, 1964, this person, after graduating from high school, worked for metropolitan life. And that's where his father was a vice president. He started out basically in, um, the mail room.
00:09:00
Speaker
right, and worked his way up. Well good for that dad, because a lot of times they just give him a cush job with an office. He became a mainframe computer operator. He took computer courses, whatever, and he wound up leaving that job, became a computer operator for the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association in New York. Okay. Until 1980. Something substantial happened in 1980. What happened in 1980? He was arrested.
00:09:27
Speaker
this man. I'm guessing it was for some kind of sexual assault. He actually worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield in an office with a fugitive serial killer named Rodney Alcala and he was known in New York as the dating man. I've seen that guy. Yep. So I'll give you a real quick synopsis of this man. Synopsis? Synopsis, thank you. I said synopsis. You did? That was incorrect. You did. I wasn't gonna let that slide. That was super incorrect.
00:09:54
Speaker
You know what? I do my best. Put the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable. Syllable? Alright, anyway. So, uh, this man, Rodney, was an American serial killer and sex offender who was set to death in California. Five murders committed. This is all Wikipedia, by the way. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted. Sighted.
00:10:15
Speaker
in the state between 1977 and 1979 and received additional sentences of 25 years to life, were pleading guilty to two homicides committed in New York City in 1971 and 1977. So, he's been linked to about eight other murders, but the true number pretty much remains his own in a nutshell. That's usually how it works, right? It's always how it works. So, I'm going to skip forward just a little bit again because I gave you a little bio on a guy.
00:10:44
Speaker
And just to kind of give you an example, only because I've seen the guy's picture and now hearing about like career and stuff, like I wouldn't peg him as, you know what
Personal Stories and Manhattan’s Dark History
00:10:55
Speaker
I mean? His dad was a vice president. He worked his way up from the mud. Um, even based on his picture, he didn't look like a sleaze ball. You know, it wasn't like that Jeffrey Dahmer type, not Jeffrey Dahmer. Um,
00:11:07
Speaker
Who's the guy I'm looking for, Manson? Oh, Manson, yeah. Who just looks like he's in that job, you know? Well, I don't know. I think Jeffrey Delmer did kind of look a little bit... He had dead eyes. Yeah, he had dead eyes. Dead, dead eyes. And then, like, you know, Ramirez, same thing. Everybody's like, oh, he's so hot, blah, blah, blah. I was like, dude, he looks like he chews on quarters. Like, what do you really talk about? Yeah, right. Anyways, but just for the most part, like, he just seemed like... Normal. Normal to Joe, right? Normal. Yeah. So, on May 22nd, 1980,
00:11:37
Speaker
This man picked up an 18-year-old named Leslie Odell, and she was free-spirited, if you will, lady of the night. And so here's something I did not know, and it was something that I picked up again on some of the other documentaries and stuff, that stuff that I was reading. Did you know that Manhattan back in the 70s and stuff was like a crap show? They literally called it a drunken party town. Yeah, it's not much different.
00:12:03
Speaker
than now? Yeah, well, they said it was better. But when we were there, you know, Times Square, Manhattan area, it didn't seem like a red light district district, like the way they perceived it in there. I was writing and research are better at hiding it, I feel like. Yeah. I mean, it's all still there. It's just cloak and shadows now because think about the about tourist hotspot. Yeah. But think about when we went and
00:12:28
Speaker
Like in our group, we had like 20, 25, 30 people in our group that went that time. And there was one lady Denise that went, who obviously, you just look at her and tell, she had more money than all of us, put together probably. Dressed to the nines, jewelry, nice person. And she was the one- She's very old Southern, like that's just how they do things. But she did have more money than the rest of us. Didn't. She did. Did, yes. Yeah. And she was the one that they would like taking all these back rooms,
00:12:57
Speaker
like literally someone give her a card and be like go to this address you can get some purses and she said she went but then she felt like an idiot because they'd literally like bring her into the shop and then open some trap door yeah and she went down like she said legitimately she went down in this basement and this guy like knocked on the door three times they opened a slot looked at him she showed a card and they brought her back and locked the door behind her she was like that's it i'm about to die yeah
00:13:22
Speaker
but none of us saw that no because none of it now she came home with like a trash bag full of designer purses well yeah because if you're stuck in a situation like that you gotta buy something i'm gonna buy whatever used to get from me i'd like to leave but we didn't see that is my point like we didn't see any of that we went to chinatown and got like our fake wallets yeah
00:13:41
Speaker
you know fake Oakley's yeah right but we didn't see like the true like CD underbelly or whatever and that was just like a small glimpse in like an hour there your husband got well Frankie everybody's heard his name at this point
00:13:54
Speaker
Uh, my mom's horrible directions when we ended up in the Amish tale. No, no, no, no, no, no. When you guys took the wrong way and you ended up in the last stop. No, we ended up y'all went to little Italy to eat. We were supposed to meet you there, but you ended up last stop on the subway. The subway had no more stop because there was no more rail. We were the end of the line in New York and it was terrifying because it was like 10 o'clock at night and I was dying.
00:14:21
Speaker
to this day he was like I saw a deal go down I was not making eye contact no I literally was terrified and my mom was like go wherever you want spend whatever you want I'll pay for it cuz she gave us better it was the last stop on the frickin subway ten o'clock at night there was no other stop
00:14:40
Speaker
Okay, like all you guys are sitting here listening to us little Hicks talk about the you know, the big city, right? But you don't understand there are places in Tennessee where you start hearing those banjos and you're like, I'm lost and this is not yeah This is some wrong Yeah, there's some places I could bring you city folks to up in the mountains and you'd be like I will give you anything you want to get me back to civilization I'm terrified because I feel that way
00:15:03
Speaker
It's the only place you're ever going to get real moonshine. Tennessee, guys. You want the real kind of rocket fuel? Apple pie moonshine is delightful. But my point is, it's cloaks and daggers. You don't see the stuff that they don't want you to see. Because it's a tutorial. It's the same thing. We keep referencing Shark Week. They're not going to tell you what the shark attacks really are like and how often it's money making. No, they want you to come visit it. Exactly. Personal opinion, we totally went off rail on that. We did. We usually do.
00:15:33
Speaker
We have a lot of opinions built up. All right, so back to the to the lady of the night, which is the which is a fancy term for she was soliciting herself. She met this guy. And she finally agreed, I guess, with some convincing to have sex with him for $100. They checked into a hotel in Hasbro, sorry, Hasbro Kites quality in where he 18 days earlier
00:16:04
Speaker
had already been there. Now, I don't know if you remember this, but it's one of the last victims that I talked about in our jersey. To be honest with you, I do not. No. I should have really listened to you. Her name was Valerie Street. I do remember Valerie because I have her on my paper. So with that, her hands had tightly been handcuffed behind her back, and she was under the bed. That was Valerie Street's story. Yes. She was discovered by a housekeeper, I guess, and that's kind of where that went.
00:16:33
Speaker
Um, the man offered to give Miss Leslie a back massage. She rolled over onto her stomach. He straddled her back. You don't turn your back on people. Well, you're in a situation like that. No, no, you don't. You're the money maker. You're doing it for money, babe. You're doing it for money. Yeah, but you give the back massages. You don't take one by turning your back on these crazy people.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, like watch your own back. Yeah, you've got to. I'm not saying that like shaming her. No, she's got to watch your own back. You offer the back massage. You don't take one. She'd be like, no, how about I do you? Yeah, I'm here to take care of you. I'm not the other way around. I can get on board with that for sure. Yeah, no, I'm saying she's got to protect herself. So he took a knife out, put it to her throat, put a pair of handcuffs on her wrists, and began torturing her.
Timothy Dowd’s Crimes Exposed
00:17:21
Speaker
Of course he did. He's a piece of crap.
00:17:24
Speaker
nearly biting off one of her nipples. Why? She survived the attack and later testified and he said, you have to take it, the other girls did. You have to take it too. You're a whore and you have, sorry, you're a whore and you have. No, she doesn't. No, she's not. Everybody's got to make money and you don't know people's backgrounds. This is what the man was telling her. He's a piece of crap. So, sorry guys.
00:17:52
Speaker
After he makes his, you know, ray of comments, she's muffling the pains of her cry, but the staff still heard it. They were already like on edge from the murder that had happened 18 days earlier. Right. So they heard something funky and they're like, boom, 911. Good. We're out here. All right. We're jumping on this. They called the police. Police came. They demanded, uh, for this man to open the door. He was apprehended in the hallway and, uh, he was arrested. He was handcuffed. Oh, he was sorry. He was arrested, handcuffed.
00:18:22
Speaker
And he had handcuffs on him. On his personage. Yeah, a leather gag, two slave collars, a switchblade, and a replica pistol, and a stockpile of- Why would you have all that if you're up to just regular human stuff? You have to know good with that. That's a rape kit. Exactly. So that is the final story of how he was finally busted.
00:18:50
Speaker
Before I keep moving in through this, I just want to go ahead and tell you guys because let me move back to this. So he's still confessing to crimes. One of the latest ones was, let's see here. Sorry, I keep backing away from the mic and face getting onto me. June 22nd, 2022 was the latest one that he had confessed to. So last month? Yeah. No, we're in August now. Oh, so we are in August. Yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
dang what happened in july it went it went quick so yeah i mean he's been i've found things from february of 2021 things from yeah he's just slowly he's like yeah like he's staying his execution by that basically because you can't kill me if i'm going to keep giving you what you want now he was married he got three kids
00:19:39
Speaker
I feel bad for that. Those, those three girls. I couldn't really find anything good. They don't need their names in the press because guess what? It's not their fault. Just because he's a piece of crap doesn't mean it's family new. But here's what got me. I'm going to scroll back up to this real fast because I've got to get my headlines straight.
Confronting Richard Cottingham
00:19:59
Speaker
This is a direct quote from Rolling Stone. All right. Jennifer Wise says her life came full circle in a massive, uh, dreary building in Trenton, New Jersey.
00:20:09
Speaker
In May of 1978, her mother, Didya Ghidarzi, put her up for adoption at an agency in the shadow of New Jersey state prison. And it was barbed wire, proud offenses. When decades later, she found herself the same prison confronting a man who left her mother dismembered in a flaming hotel room in Times Square. Wow. Richard Coddingham, AKA the torso killer, AKA the Times Square killer.
00:20:40
Speaker
So this story I started off with, it is all the same person. It was all the same person, but this, this kid or not, she's not a kid now. Yeah. But her mother was one of the victims in that room. Wow. Jennifer sat across the man that brutally murdered his mom. Her mom.
00:21:02
Speaker
her mom, sorry. I wanted to find her, this is a direct quote, I'm sorry, I wanted to find her, and I didn't want to ever have to try to find her skull, who I said. No, her mother. Wow, no. Whose identity she said she uncovered in 2003 when she was in her early 20s. I was expecting to get the other half of the locket like Annie, but that was not the case. Wise first met Coddingham through a sheet of glass for window,
00:21:30
Speaker
There was she to glass for a window and a visit and was shocked to discover that she wasn't scared of the man before her. He resembled, sorry, Santa, gone a seed. So I'm assuming that Santa that went to hell. I guess so. Maybe, I guess, I'm not sure. I was trying to figure out pieces of my mother's life and where her remains were and he had the answers. Coddingham now 75 has spent the last four decades in relative,
00:21:58
Speaker
of security watching hours of police, uh, procedurals and detective shows behind bars. He slid into his 70s when his healthcare hit steadily declined over the last decade or so. However, the killer who has been convicted of eight murders, eight that we know of has slowly been confessing to a series of cold cases.
00:22:19
Speaker
Now this girl, and I'm going to go off pace here now because this is not, you know, I could keep reading that thing from Rolling Stones forever. If you want to, you can find the article out there. It's on Rolling Stone.
00:22:31
Speaker
are in our social media. She has pictures with this guy, like literally befriended him. Why? So I don't because of her mom, because she found out through I mean, you can you could try to call it like caring, I think maybe, but I think it was through manipulation. Right. Because since she became a part of his life, he started confessing to more of the murders.
00:22:55
Speaker
And so I think this might be her silver lining to such chaos to say, you know, she doesn't like this guy. She's maybe, you know, she doesn't love him like a, you know, she forgave him. She let it go, but she's trying to help other people get closure.
00:23:09
Speaker
Okay. And again, as recent as 2022, was that her biological father? Oh, okay. This was the man that killed her mom, her biological mom, but she was put up for adoption. I knew that. I knew she was like trying to find her history. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was what she felt. But I mean, I just, we've said it a hundred times. Everybody grieves differently. Everybody processes differently. No shame or condemnation for how you choose to handle what you, how you need to do it.
00:23:35
Speaker
But my thing is, is if you go out looking for your mom, like your bio mom, and that's what you find, why would you want to befriend the person that took her away from you? Well, I mean, I guess if you, cause you don't really have, okay, this might sound a little bit cool. You never had a relationship with a bio mom. You just wanted to know who she was. Then come to find out she was murdered by a serial killer who has claimed, and I was going to get to this part.
00:24:02
Speaker
He's claimed over 18 to 100 murders. Wow. Has not confessed to any of them. There are so many unclosed cold cases that could possibly be him that are not linked. And so maybe for her in her mind, it's almost like a closure for her to try to find the other victims and let their families. I was going to say, are figuring out what happened to her mom.
00:24:23
Speaker
she knew she got the closure she wanted so she feels it gives her a sense of purpose to give other people that same closure. Okay, I get that. I do get that because it took me a minute to really because like, the more I read about her, the more I thought about it, the more I was like, how could you sit face to face with a man like that? You know, and be like, hey, let me get to know you. Talk to me about your life. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would not I don't I don't feel like I could be that compassionate. No,
00:24:53
Speaker
in that aspect, which is really lame because we would consider ourselves to be like Christians in that sense, you know, forgive and turn the other cheek and all that stuff. But I don't know, some things are more difficult than others, I think.
00:25:08
Speaker
I don't know how you just turn the cheek on something like that. I, you know, no. But again, I've never, I've never faced it. I've never had to go through that battle of saying true. You know what I mean? And, and, and everybody, again, I can sit here and have a backwards opinion of something and never have gone through it until it hits you. Yeah. It's easy to say how people should behave, how you feel like is a better way to, to behave or to deal with a situation. But until you've lived it, you have absolutely no idea what you'll do. No way. You can say what you think you'll do, but you do not know what you will do. So.
00:25:38
Speaker
that uh that wraps up my story he is still in prison still confessing to murders like you said yeah his life sentences i'm sure are above average right you know i got a million of them by now um you know and and a part of me is like yeah man kill him kill him but when you're sitting here and you're like there's so many people that need so many people that want to know what happened yeah
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. If it was, you know, I guess I'm a little bit partial when it comes to cases that are, you know, open and closed, like short and sweet. Yeah. He's a nutbag, you know, not somebody that can leave so many people in the ground and not. Yeah. Not give anybody any kind of class. That's crazy. And that was that was New Jersey and New York, somebody who terrorized two states and hundreds of people, hundreds of people.
00:26:32
Speaker
Because it's not just the victims. It's their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, spouses, children, grandkids. Oh, that's, that's dumb. I told you it was a crazy story. It was. It was a good story. I need to go back and listen to both of New Jersey and New York, like consecutively now. Well, here's the deal. The, the only victim stories that I gave, majority of them, I think almost actually, I think all of them were
00:26:59
Speaker
the deaths occurred in New Jersey, but some of them were abducted from New York. Yeah. No, cause you said that there was a crossover in last time. Yeah. Because you said they were from New York or something like that. Yeah. They were confirmed cases. Yeah. So as, as of now, I think there's only 12 confirmed cases, but there could be so many more, like nobody, we don't, we show no. So wow.
00:27:22
Speaker
Well, I do hope to say I hope before he dies, he gives up everything that he did because everyone deserves closure. So before we take a break and we switch over to faith, I've got an update.
New Crime Focus - Eastburn Family
00:27:36
Speaker
Yes, because I'm an insomniac. I couldn't sleep last night. And so I was scrolling through Facebook. And lo and behold, my Nevada story appears again. There has been another body found in Lake Mead bringing the total to four.
00:27:50
Speaker
They are going to be doing a sweep a scuba sweep to sort of looking for. Look for a body. No, no, which is weird because I figured they would have they would have already done that with the fact they've already found three. But yeah, they're excavating. Thank you. There you go.
00:28:06
Speaker
the rest of that skeletal remain, I guess they had found like partial human skull or something. Yeah. So another, but again, I'm going to keep going with the story because that's just crazy. No, that is. And you can't, there's no way. And I think it was exactly 25 miles away from Las Vegas, which is prime time mob central back in the 70s.
00:28:26
Speaker
which was all said by Lisa. So don't at me. Whatever. It's not like there haven't been a hundred thousand documentaries and write in true prime. Anything about every once in a while, you know, they got to make an example. So if they're going to make an example, Lisa, not you don't have to know my last name and you're not going to ever know that because I don't want you to. That's a lie. That's that's not that hard to figure out, bro. It's not that hard. I like to live in a world where I can pretend like I'm safe, but nobody is. You know, neither you.
00:28:55
Speaker
Nope. Snakes, Magoo. Nope. All right. Well, let's take our break. Quick break and we'll come back to North Carolina. All right. All right. It's my turn, Faith. And because I can't read, nor do I know my alphabet, I've skipped New Mexico and gone right on to North Carolina. Sorry, New Mexico. You'll be next time. Just in case anyone else is following, you know, somewhat alphabetically, I saw what I did, but.
00:29:23
Speaker
way to make changes so we're in North Carolina tonight and we are in Fayetteville and let me tell you there's gonna be some fields with this one um this is in my opinion this is a very polarizing case um you'll get to see what I mean by the end but let's just jump on it so Fayetteville North Carolina is right
00:29:48
Speaker
located right outside of Fort Bragg and that is where we're going to be tonight and the year is 1985. I was one. So Gary Eastburn. I was just born. Yeah, Gary Eastburn was an active Air Force pilot and he was stationed in North Carolina right outside Fort Bragg. He had just received really exciting news that he was about to get a pretty big promotion.
00:30:10
Speaker
But with that promotion, it came with a transfer for he and his family to the UK, London. So prior to taking the step, he had to complete a three month training program in Alabama. And while it was going to be hard to be separated from his family, it was a necessary evil, as they say, it's military life. Right. His wife, Katie, and their three daughters who were all under five were anxiously awaiting Gary to return and for this new adventure to start.
00:30:37
Speaker
Um, side note utmost respect for military wives and or spouses in general, because they're no joke. It's a hard life. Like we, I mean, you can watch it in like different sitcoms or television shows, but I know people that have lived it. Besides the constant fear for your spouse. Anytime they're deployed, you're also raising the family alone. You have to do everything alone. Um, and.
00:31:03
Speaker
That's, that's what Katie was doing. Uh, they also typically have specific routines for while they're to stay in touch with their loved ones, especially when their kids involved. Um, and the Eastburns are absolutely no different. When Gary was away, he and Katie would literally write letters to each other, updating them on how their day was going, what was going on, what they did that day. So nothing was missed. Um, typical spouse stuff that we take for granted, like, you know, something happens. Granite, you take for granted.
00:31:33
Speaker
Is that how that thing is granted? Granite granite. We're saying the same word. No, we're not granted. We're going to take it for granted. Granite is a countertop. Anyway, you redneck. Redneck. I haven't wrote the word granite. G.R.A. and I.T.E. Granite. OK. Anyway, but we take these things for granted. Yeah, we do. Uh-huh.
00:31:58
Speaker
But they'd write letters about, hey, Miss Miller next door, just got a new cat, just basically updated on day-to-day life stuff. And so they also had a standing Saturday night phone call date that they never missed when he was away for any reason. Saturday night at a specific time, they'd always make a phone call. So this is where they're at. He's away for three months in Alabama. She's trying to literally sell anything that they don't need to move to the United Kingdom.
00:32:27
Speaker
to the UK, to Britain, and on top of raising the three children, three little girls, and Gary's away. So, on Saturday, May 11th, the day before Mother's Day, Gary was waiting by his phone for, it was a Saturday night for his call with Kate, but she was late. Which typically, I mean, this is a sacred time. Like, this is their routine, this is what they do. But again, it's the day before Mother's Day. She has three small children, small children, all under the age of five.
00:32:57
Speaker
And she's trying to get everything right for move. So he's given her some grace. So what was first just a few minutes late, turned into a longer stretch of time. And Gary finally decided to pick up the phone call and call her after it had been more than, you know, passing 30, 45 minutes. However.
00:33:15
Speaker
when he tried to call her, he couldn't get her to answer the phone. He's not able to get in touch with her. So he's worried, but things happen. She's going to call later that night when there's still no answer from Katie and she hasn't called and he can't get in touch with her. He decides he's going to air on the side of caution because this is out of character 100%. So he calls, he calls a friend that lives in North Carolina and he's like, Hey, can you just call the local sheriff office and ask them to go do a wellness check at my house? Yeah.
00:33:44
Speaker
check on my family, check on my wife and my girls. I can't get in touch with Katie. I'm a little worried why he didn't ask the friend to just go and check. I'm not a hundred percent sure. Maybe it was a different, cause it just said the friend was from North Carolina. So maybe they weren't close to Fayetteville. Yeah.
Eastburn Family Tragedy Unfolds
00:33:57
Speaker
But mostly cops will do a wellness check. And if he was suspect of anything, I would rather be a cop, not just a friend. That's very good point. I didn't think about that. So the deputy, they call the friend calls the deputy is dispatched to the house. He knocks on the door. But again, there's no answer. Deputy looks on the perimeter of the house, peaks in some windows, but everything's fine. There's literally nothing to even write a report on.
00:34:22
Speaker
But this deputy does his due diligence. We give cops a lot of crap. This deputy does not. He goes to the house next door to see if they have seen Katie or the girls. It's late. He bangs on the door. The neighbor's obviously not super thrilled to be disturbed and pretty much just a dick to the officer. Tells him nothing weird happened that day. It's like every other day. Go away. I'm sleeping. Do you see my robe? Peace.
00:34:50
Speaker
So the next day, great person, right? Um, but the next day rolls around and this neighbor goes about his morning routine, but he just said something feels off. Like he can't put his finger on it, but something's not right. So he's drinking his coffee at his kitchen table, reading newspaper, whatever his routine is. That was a butt snack. Okay. All right. But
00:35:11
Speaker
in the guy's defense. It's late at night. He's in bed and the cops banging on the door saying Did you see anything? No, nothing's weird. You've already said you peeked in the windows. Everything's fine. But I feel like when was the last time you saw her would have been a very appropriate question at that point in time. So the guy sitting at his coffee table doing whatever kitchen table, and he looks over at the Eastburn's house. And he just kind of starts thinking, when was the last time I saw Katie and the girls?
00:35:38
Speaker
The car's outside and it's in the same spot it's always parked in. But Katie did mention that she thought about taking the three girls, getting train tickets and going to surprise Gary in Alabama. So maybe that's all that this is. He doesn't know they're on their way. It's three small kids. This is 85. There's no cell phones. There's no pagers. Nope.
00:36:01
Speaker
so she could have just taken the three kids and that's what it was so he thought about that but you know more thinks about something still not right and he's staring at the house and it catches his eye right there at the front door the mail's just stacking up
00:36:18
Speaker
Like this isn't you left yesterday to surprise your husband. This is a few days worth of mail stacking up. And while he could just be paranoid and looking into things because the officer came last night, he's not tired. He's thinking more clearly. You know what? He's just going to go next door and look for himself. That's what he's going to do. He's going to go next door and he's going to look for himself. So he walks over next door and he rings the doorbell and he listens. Nobody, there's no footsteps. There's no loud kids running to the door. There's no screaming. Hey, be quiet. There's nothing, which is weird. Um,
00:36:48
Speaker
So he sits there and kind of tries to think, what is he going to do? So he bangs on the door really hard again and puts his ear up to it to like listen. Yeah. Try to see if anything's going on. He doesn't hear anything. And right before he picks his ear up, he hears, hears something. And it's this, it's this soft crying that sounds like a baby's cry. And they've got a young,
00:37:13
Speaker
little under two year old daughter named Jana. He thinks it's Jana crying. He's he's decided this, but he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know how to proceed. So he does the smart thing men, if any man listens to this, you do the smart thing and he calls his wife. Nice. And he basically gives her like a brief rundown. This is what's going on. Something just felt off like something's weird. So I went and checked and I hear
00:37:36
Speaker
So it's why he says, quickly takes charge of the situation and she says, don't leave and calls the Eastburns babysitter. Normal babysitter. Just to say, do you know what's going on?
00:37:48
Speaker
Do you know if she left? Do you know if she went to surprise Gary, what's going on? And after she talks to the babysitter, she hangs up and she immediately calls the sheriff and says, Hey, this is what, this is, this is where we're at right now. You need to send somebody. So kudos to the police department. They, they just, no questions. Another officer is dispatched immediately to the house. So the officer arrives at the house. He's a younger cop and he, you know, same thing, Gary, Gary's wife's both standing there at the door. What do we do?
00:38:16
Speaker
So they ring the doorbell and the officer listens and by God, you can hear a baby crying. You can't sound a baby crying. But he's alone. The officer's alone. He does not have backup. And to follow procedures, he has to call this in and wait for backup to get there because you don't know what you're walking into. Is it a hostage situation? Is there a combatant in the house? You don't know. You can't put people in more danger. You have to have backup, right? Right. Well, he calls in for backup.
00:38:46
Speaker
But before backup gets there, the babysitter gets there and the babysitter starts going through the windows and she can see baby Jana. No way. She sees the baby. She can see that this baby is past the point of being fussy. Something's wrong with the child. And she tells the officer, you've got to get in there and help her or I will.
00:39:06
Speaker
So the officer says, you know what? Agreed. There's an infant in danger. There's an infant in distress. So they cut the screen out of a window. They open the window and the officer crawls through the house. But as soon as he enters the house, he is hit full force with the smell. Like there's no questioning. I like your pause there.
00:39:26
Speaker
He knows the smell, you know the smell. No, no, no, no. I like the pause. You're like he hit, he was hit full force with a smell, not bullets or brick or no frying pan. Nope. The smell of decal is what just hit him in the face. So first concern is baby Jana. He gets baby Jana and she is bad.
00:39:50
Speaker
Like she is not in a good way. She's pale. She's thin. She's showing obvious signs of dehydration and neglect. It's obviously that she has been sitting in her own soil for much longer than a day. And when they get her out here, she just looks awful, but they have no idea how bad this baby is.
00:40:11
Speaker
The baby's immediately taken to the hospital, and after being assessed, the doctors would later tell them that this little girl was literally hours away from death. Hours.
00:40:24
Speaker
So the police- And you said she was two? She's a little under two. A little under two. She's a little under two, around two. So the police get back up. When the police back up, get there, they go into the house and the scene is just, Jana was bad, but everything else is worse. There's obviously signs of a struggle in the living room that trail throughout the house. They follow this trail and they end up first in the master bedroom.
00:40:51
Speaker
where three-year-old Erin is laying down beside her parents' bed with a pillow covering her face is as if to block out the trauma around her. And they take the pillow off the three-year-old little girl. It's horrific. Her throat was cut so deeply that she was almost decapitated.
00:41:11
Speaker
The detective continued into the room walking around the bed, which is where they found 32 year old Katie. Her bra was pulled off her chest up into her neck. Her underwear had been cut off and discarded. She'd been sexually assaulted and stabbed multiple times in the chest. If this wasn't bad enough for you, they continue on to the trail because there's still five year old little Kara that's unaccounted for. She was eventually found in her bedroom, hiding under her Star Wars covers.
00:41:41
Speaker
Just like her mother, Katie, she had been stabbed multiple times in the chest. Five year old. The detective on the scene now faced with the horrific task of contacting Gary, who's still waiting on word from his wife, who missed their call the night before. No idea that his daughters are dead. His wife is dead and his last remaining daughter is barely clinging to life.
00:42:07
Speaker
So the detective calls Gary and tells- Can I just say something really quick? Yeah, the story's awful. Well, it's not even just that. Like, okay, we always talk about how, like, cops get a bad rap for a lot of stuff, but like, for me personally, I could never-
00:42:22
Speaker
Walk into a situation like that and like you you want to talk about strength. I mean that in there in a nutshell Yeah, how these men and women do that job is beyond me Okay, not even just the fact that they have to walk into that scene But walk into that scene not knowing if the perpetrator still there and then not wondering whether or not this is evidence
00:42:46
Speaker
like everything that they have, and then you have to notify the family. On top of just seeing that, seeing a three-year-old little girl whose throat is cut so deeply, her head's not attached almost, then seeing a five-year-old little girl hiding under, the three-year-old's hiding under her pillow, the five-year-old's hiding under her blanket stabbed to death. So I'm just saying, guys, like- There's a lot of bad cops, there's a lot of frickin' good cops. You can give a lot of crap, but I'm saying, dude, even they just, anybody who can do that kind of work is special.
00:43:13
Speaker
in a very, very different kind of way, but very special. But you know what? And it, I kind of understand why they, why they're so hard on people that they, I don't, I'm not saying it's right. But when they, when they, when they apprehend criminals and they're rough with them, you almost kind of understand it because the things they see, it makes them kind of
00:43:35
Speaker
I would have a hard time being kind to people that I perceive as a criminal. Yeah, I'm not saying it's right. Like their demeanor has to be strong. Oh, God. You know, I couldn't imagine just approaching somebody in a parking lot and telling them, like, you know, hey, here are the because, OK, even just as a regular civilian.
00:43:54
Speaker
OK, if I were to look at somebody in the line at Kroger or Walmart, for those of you who don't have Kroger and say to them, hey, you just ran over my foot with your shopping cart like just wanted you to know. Yeah, you don't know if their response is going to be, I'm sorry, or shoving the shopping cart back into my face. Yeah. And pounding. So I can imagine being a cop now approaching somebody in a vehicle and you don't know if they're carrying. You don't know if if they're just normal. No.
00:44:24
Speaker
Like there's no way I know it. No, I agree 100% with body cam because it protects everybody. Like it protects the people who are roughed up and especially marginalized people who are stereotyped, but it also protects cops from false accusations and. And I'm sorry, but I'm going to say it and you can hate me if you want to, but in this day and age, I don't disagree with a lot of the cops because the kids and young adults that
00:44:52
Speaker
Interact with cops are so rude and oh my gosh I have no respect like I remember being you know my when 16 years old getting pulled over for speeding shaking Oh, yeah, like oh, yeah total utter respect. Here's my license. Here's my registration Here's my proof of insurance and please for the love of God. Don't tell my dad right like that was those were the things going through my mind Yeah, nowadays. It's not like that. They're like give me a reason you can't come into my car You can't do if you have nothing to hide shut up. I'm sure yeah, and just move on yeah
00:45:24
Speaker
No way there is no way and I don't think that Firemen ambulance workers, um, you know, we talk about nurses and doctors and stuff but like the cops like the normal people who are not educated in
00:45:41
Speaker
Um, like the human body, people that work in an ER are used to seeing people in rough shape. Yeah. But when a cop is called onto a scene for domestic violence and what they walk into as a woman halfway decapitated is especially, especially in this point, there was no therapy. Yeah. Like it, what you're, you just have to be a man, tough it up and move on. You just saw two children brutally murdered. You need, you need to talk about that. Like you need help. Yeah.
00:46:07
Speaker
Anybody would. So I'm sorry. Like I said, I wasn't saying that to like drive it in, but like all the cases that we talk about. And it just really kind of struck me with this one. Not that it hasn't struck me in the past, but like the people that go on scene 100% that have to look at that and then try to figure out what happened is horrific.
Investigation and Tim’s Involvement
00:46:28
Speaker
Like your mental capacity as a human being is.
00:46:32
Speaker
far beyond what mine is what yeah what what what normal peoples could ever be yeah like but we appreciate the job proud of you proud of you right sorry i'm done so the detective calls gary and tells them hey you need to come home there's been a death in the family tries to keep it vague
00:46:53
Speaker
because they don't want him traveling from Alabama back to North Carolina with that much emotion and trauma to deal with. So they're, they're purposely vague. Gary arrives home to an empty house. His whole family's murdered except for little Jana who's still at the hospital and they don't know if she'll make it. Jana, um, is severely developmentally delayed after living through this trauma.
00:47:18
Speaker
Even though she was a young child, it took her months to be able to speak again because she was almost two. So she was speaking, completely quits talking. Um, when she finally did talk and she was able to be interviewed with child psychologists who were literally just trying to get any information from her about that night during all the interviews, anytime she'd see a picture of her mom, she'd kiss her, kiss her mom. Love mom, love mom.
00:47:41
Speaker
And she'd just say, mama's at work, mama's at work. But every time she was shown a picture of the house they lived in, she would become visibly upset, running in the room, running around the room she'd been interviewed, trying to find a place to hide. And basically told them, we have to hide from the bad man. We have to hide, which led them to believe that her older sister, who was five, we're not talking like a teenager. When I say older sister, I mean a five-year-old,
00:48:10
Speaker
came into a room at some point and said, you have to hide because there's an assailant in the house. So at this point, Gary's full of questions. Why his family? Who would want to hurt his family? Why would anyone want to hurt his kids? And unfortunately, the police have the same exact question. The main reason behind the crime was theorized to be sexual assault against Katie and everything else was collateral damage, but
00:48:36
Speaker
If that's the main cause, why kill the children and why kill the children so brutally? Furthermore, there were only a few things missing from the house. There was a metal lockbox missing. There were about $300 in cash that was taken and Katie's debit card. But the question remains, who would do this? Because this is horrible. However, there was a ton of evidence found in and around the house.
00:49:04
Speaker
And the case is assumed to gonna be a whirlwind of processing and they're gonna find the culprit. So I just wanna go through the evidence that was left for you real quick. Here's the evidence. There are clear signs of cleanup at the house, mainly due to the brutal natures of the murder. However, the crime scene text could find no blood initially when looking around the house. However, when they brought Luminol in and sprayed the house where you can see it under blacklight, right?
00:49:33
Speaker
everything is covered in blood the walls the floors the ceiling throughout the entire house also you can see bloody footprints under the luminol but the blood was cleaned up so someone did a cleanup job there was a bloody towel found on the scene that had an unknown blood sample from someone outside the house presumably the assailant hair was found which did not match any of the family members
00:50:03
Speaker
Unknown head hairs were found in the master bedroom. Another unknown head fit, unknown head hair was found in Kara's bedroom on her chest, the five year old. There was a pubic hair found on the couch in the living room, which is where the attack is presumably began. There are multiple unknown fingerprints, same fingerprint, but multiple times found throughout the inside of the house.
00:50:29
Speaker
There are footprints found along the outside of the house around the window. There is unknown DNA skin cells underneath the fingernails of both the 32 year old mother Katie and the five year old Kara who both fought like hell.
00:50:44
Speaker
And finally worse, there's semen found inside Katie's rape kit. So literally you've got everything you need. Like this is going to be an open and shut case, but it's not because it's you. Well, they, they got every piece of physical evidence they could need on top of this. The police are contacted by a man named Patrick who says he was outside of the house the night of the murders.
00:51:07
Speaker
He'd left his girlfriend's house pretty late, late night booty call. And he saw someone outside the Eastburn's house at around three o'clock in the morning. Now, a lot of people look on this Patrick as suspicious because number one, you're out at three o'clock in the morning.
00:51:24
Speaker
But real life example, last night I couldn't sleep when I wrote this. So like three weeks ago, but still I couldn't sleep. I didn't sleep that whole night. You know that every once in a while, like I legit can't sleep the whole night. I take NyQuil. I take melatonin. I'm literally just stare at myself. I'm like an idiot all night.
00:51:40
Speaker
And I couldn't sleep that night. So I, I literally, that night I was, I went out of my house several times just because I didn't want to wake up the kid or the husband. And I've got all this energy. So I'm walking around my front yard and walk around my backyard, walk up and down the street. Some literally did it multiple times that night that I did this. I wrote this story the next day. I was out of my house multiple times. I could have seen stuff. So while, yeah, he shouldn't have been out at three o'clock. People are out at three o'clock for just random reasons, especially. Yeah.
00:52:05
Speaker
especially if somebody called you for a booty call. Yeah. Another reason Patrick is discredited is because he has multiple past run-ins with the law, both before and after he became a witness in this crime. And while- It is harder to trust. Yeah. And while TV shows us murders and inserting themselves in the case all the time, right? Don't know why murder always inserts themselves in the case. Right. I suspect. When you're trying to stay on the right side of the law,
00:52:34
Speaker
in real life, you're not going to call and be like, Hey, I was outside at 3 a.m. And I saw this. You're going to keep your mouth shut if it was you like insert yourself somewhere like less conspicuous. But then you could either just be a genuine person trying to do the right thing or a psychopath and they don't know like they don't. Well, this is the biggest things like nobody knows where they're approaching. So Patrick's called to the police when he said he left his girlfriend's house. He's walking down the street. He sees a tall blonde man with a mustache outside the house.
00:53:03
Speaker
This man has on a beanie, like a, it's like a toboggan hat, um, and a members only jacket. And he also had a very large trash bag slung over his shoulder as he's leaving these friends house. The guy looks at Patrick and make some random comment about how, ah, yeah, I got to get an early start. Gets into a white car drives away with this information. The police now have a sketch.
00:53:28
Speaker
of the man seen outside. So they have all this physical evidence and eyewitness. If you tell me this is a cold case now, I'm going to be angry. All right. You're grinning and I don't like it. I told you this is a polarizing case. The police literally have everything. Eyewitness, description of the man, the description of the car in the early hours of the morning, all the physical evidence they could ever want to come forward. And here's a few other things that happened. The babysitter tells the police two very important pieces of evidence on this case. Katie mentioned to her,
00:53:59
Speaker
just the week before that someone had been following her around the past few weeks leading up to the murder. They called the house multiple times and they either remained silent when Katie answered or they would start talking in a very sexualized manner that made her very uncomfortable and thought threatened and Katie was scared. Also Katie had put in an ad in the local paper for some
00:54:25
Speaker
selling, basically selling their family dog. They could, they were getting ready for this move to Britain a few days before the murder. Um, she took a message and left it for Katie from an Angela that wanted to come and look at the dog because they wanted, they, they put a price on the dog just because they wanted to make sure someone wasn't going to just come take the dog. Like they want someone that wanted the dog better way to do that. If you're a crazy man, then tip. So they wanted to come see this dog at the time of the attack, both the message was gone.
00:54:54
Speaker
and the dog was no longer at the house. At the time, everything went, the dog's not at the house, leaving people to think that the person that came to get the dog would have been the last person to see Katie and the girls alive. Or that's what was in the trash bag. Didn't think about that. Sorry. So after six days, the police put out a request of the public for anyone helping, trying to see, they need help to find who adopted this dog.
00:55:20
Speaker
So Angela is watching the news and sees this and turns to her husband, Tim, who's there taking care of their newborn baby daughter. And she says, hey, this is you. That's our dog. You bought this dog off this lady. This is you. You need to call the police. And you're the one who picked up the dog. You got to call the police.
00:55:43
Speaker
Well, Tim is an army sergeant and he does just that. Like no bones. He goes to the police. So the dog was not in the plastic bag. The dog was not. It was adopted by Angela and Tim. They just had a baby girl. They wanted an older dog that was used to kids for protection. Tim's in the army. So he's, he's gone. His wife is now alone with an infant daughter. She doesn't want to be alone. She wants a dog for protection. Hold mine.
00:56:04
Speaker
So Tim doesn't just call, he goes down to the police station and tells the receptionist, hey, I need to talk to the lead investigator on this case because I'm the one that got the dog. I bought the dog off them. So when the investigator walks in, he's shocked, like dumbfounded because Tim is 100% the complete live version of the sketch they've got on the person Patrick saw outside the house that night. No way.
00:56:33
Speaker
So Tim is brought back to be interviewed. Not questioned, just interviewed. But the investigator immediately has his mind made up. Tim's the guy, doesn't really like Tim at all. Tim on the other side is very guarded because he feels like they're shooting him like a suspect. He's not a suspect. He didn't do anything wrong. He bought the dog. He came in. He didn't have to. So these two are already worrying. Tim goes on to tell him what happened two days before the murder on Tuesday.
00:57:03
Speaker
He picked up the dog on the actual night of the murder. He doesn't really have an alibi because he was home alone. He and his wife had went to visit some friends, bring the new baby. Um, and she decided, you know what? You've got work. I'm off because of the baby. I want to stay here with my friends for a few extra days. It happens. So she decides to stay with her friends a few extra days. Tim can't, he's got to get back to work. So he goes home. So he was home alone that night. So he doesn't really have like a solid alibi.
00:57:33
Speaker
Besides being cautious, Tim is being cautious, but he says, take whatever you need from me. It wasn't me, take hair, take blood, take saliva, take whatever you need. You will not find any piece of me at that house. So they do, they take blood, they take hair, they take saliva. Other officers are in the background working on a photo lineup to show Patrick.
00:57:57
Speaker
eyewitness with Tim included as um one of the suspects while they're you know quote-unquote interviewing him not questioning him. When Patrick is shown the photos immediately no question that's him Tim that guy right there points to Tim's picture. Moreover
00:58:15
Speaker
When police officers look outside, the car Tim arrived in is a white Chevette. The exact car Patrick said was outside the house that night. After seven hours of questioning Tim, they let him go. Mainly so they can get a little bit more evidence from up this case. And here's what they found. This is additional evidence. A neighbor who was questioned told the police a day or so after the murders, they saw Tim. So this is one of Tim's neighbors when they're questioning people around Tim.
00:58:42
Speaker
They saw Tim burning something in his backyard and like this barrel and he's never burned anything before. So there's issue number one. Number two, a dry cleaner came forward and said, I'm Tim's dry cleaner. I do all his stuff. And just the day after the murders, Tim dropped off his members only jacket to be cleaned. But I don't get it. Patrick said a blonde man in a beanie in a members only jacket was the last person we saw leaving the house.
00:59:11
Speaker
So now Tim's burning something in his backyard the day after the murder. He's also dropped off his members only jacket which he had to be cleaned at his dry cleaners. Tim's landlord comes forward.
00:59:24
Speaker
And he states that Tim had been laid on his rent, but two days after the murder, Tim paid his rent. You want to know how much his rent was? $310. And that's the exact amount that he $10 more, but 300 is what was missing out of these burns house. Finally, Katie's ATM card that had been stolen was used at an ATM to withdraw money from their account. So the police go, they can't, they don't, they can't see anybody on the ATM.
00:59:51
Speaker
but they pull who got money out right after Katie's ATM card. And they talk to this lady and they show her lineup. She picks out Tim Hennesey, Tim Hennesey. That's the person that was in front of me at the ATM. But none of the DNA matched, right? Like I thought that's what you said because they gave- No, he said, he said, test whatever you want, it won't match. So they took it, they haven't tested it yet. Okay, I'm sorry. So at this point, you're fine.
01:00:19
Speaker
At this point, they've got him. Police arrest him on three counts of murders, one count of rape. He's immediately given a plea deal, but he refuses, stating he's not admitting to something he didn't do. And they need to test the physical evidence because it's gonna show it's not him. But here's the thing, we're in 1985.
01:00:37
Speaker
They don't have DNA testing in 1980s. It was basically like in its infancy, just kind of like FBI had access to it, but they could compare the hair and the fingerprints and try to link it back to 10. Correct. The blood came back inconclusive.
01:00:55
Speaker
But here's the deal. Fingerprints shouldn't because that was all I like literally eyeballing. Yeah, eyeballing. Well, the blood came back inclusive, but there was so much of the victim's blood mixed in. They wouldn't. They could. They'd never built. Not with DNA. Fingerprints came back negative and or inconclusive. They couldn't tell. Hair came back negative or inconclusive. However,
01:01:19
Speaker
prosecution went forward anyways because the sheer amount of evidence and eyewitnesses and everything else was overwhelming.
01:01:28
Speaker
So one year after the murders, the trial starts and the evidence in the witnesses are paraded in front of the jury. Patrick testifies that it was Tim Hennis in front of the house. And he talked to him that night saying, oh, gotta get an early start garbage bags on the rear shoulder. Probably the cleanup of the house, right? Maybe. Miss Cook comes and testifies that Tim Hennis was in front of her at the ATM. The same ATM where Katie's demicards used. Right before her.
01:01:55
Speaker
all evidence, the rent, the burning of the items, the member's only jacket, all of it's told to the jury. Nell in the coffin, in my opinion, is a slideshow as shown to the jury of crime scene photos, including the children's mutilated bodies, Katie's body, for 90 minutes straight. They showed horrific photos of
01:02:19
Speaker
of what happened to these three. So in my mind that for starters is like jury tampering. Oh, a hundred. Just for like, I mean, cause at that point you're convicting anybody. You see two little kids. You need somebody to blame and this guy seems relevant. Yep. Well, with all the circumstantial evidence, all the stuff, the jury took three days to convict Tim Hennes guilty of all charges against him and he sentenced to death.
01:02:46
Speaker
The defense attorneys are completely shocked, even though there was circumstantial evidence.
01:02:53
Speaker
What about the pubic hair and the head hairs that did not match Tim Hennessey?
Postcard and Legal Challenges
01:02:57
Speaker
Right. What about the fingerprints that were not a match? What about those? Inconclusive. Completely inconclusive. Well, even worse, a few days after Tim is in prison, he receives a postcard. This is what the postcard read verbatim. Dear Minister Hennes, I did the crime. I murdered the Eastburns. So sorry you're doing the time. I'll be safely out of North Carolina by the time you read this. Mr. X.
01:03:23
Speaker
Nice. Okay. So. And that's so not, you know, anybody could have sent that. That is not, you know. Yeah. But this split the people in opinion, half, a hundred percent of hoax. Just like you said, anybody could have done this. Yeah. While others thought this is clear evidence that Tim is not guilty. You charged him on emotions and circumstantial evidence. 90 minutes work. Yeah. Yeah. So the attorney started an appeal process immediately.
01:03:51
Speaker
with the number one thing being the 90 minutes photo, had the jury so emotionally charged that they were gonna convict literally anybody for this crime. You showed me 90 minutes of a brutal murder. Like they would have convicted Jesus at that point. Not only that, they're showing pictures of baby Jana because baby Jana was left alone without any food, water, anything for like three days. That's why she was so close to death. So you show me all that, I'm convicting the first person you say it was him. All right, guilty, dead.
01:04:21
Speaker
Yeah, Pope, it was you. So, exactly. So the judge who reviewed it agreed that while the jury should have been able to see some photos of the crime scene, that's normal. 90 minutes was excessive. And Tim has allowed a new trial. Shockers. Okay. Trial number two comes up. It's moved 90 minutes outside the city just to get an unbiased jury pool.
01:04:41
Speaker
But this time they know the strategy that the prosecution is going to use and the defense are ready to counteract every piece of circumstantial evidence because that's all guilty. You're really you're really messing me up right now. I don't like it. The deal is is he was convicted off emotion and circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial is not valid like innocent until proven guilty.
01:05:06
Speaker
And that right there is like that's a guilty verdict. They're ready to attack everything. So number one, Patrick's eye witness. He's been in trouble in between trials and it was heard when he was arrested in between the two trials. He literally said, I'm too valuable. Talk to your DA. You can't arrest me. So his credibility automatically.
01:05:30
Speaker
It dwindled a lot. So Miss Cook, the second eyewitness at the ATM, they pointed out that by the time the police found her, Tim's face is all over the news.
01:05:42
Speaker
So she was kind of prejudiced against him. Moreover, that was one of the questions I was going to ask you earlier is how much this had been like, it's everywhere, but like, not only that, her transaction was three and a half minutes after the stolen ATM card, which doesn't seem like a lot of time. I get that, but to show how much time this actually is. And I think it's brilliant in the defense.
01:06:08
Speaker
They made the entire courtroom go completely silent and sit there for three and a half minutes to show the jury how long it took. There was no way Miss Cook was gonna was gonna see anything. No. It's three and a half minutes. Whoever drove up and got was already in their car and gone and Miss Cook is just sees his face all over the news like. Yeah.
01:06:31
Speaker
She, she ID'd him because she saw him on the news. It's guilty by association. She didn't see him. Yeah. Cause that, I'm telling you, I tried it. Just try it for yourself. Set a timer for three and a half minutes and sit there in silence and tell me you're not squirming after like 45 seconds. It's awful. So there's that one.
01:06:51
Speaker
Um, number three piece they, they attacked was the members only jacket. They went and talked to multiple dry cleaners and there is a specific chemical that is needed to clean blood out of fabric. You can't just wash it. It's, it's going to still show under luminol. Oh yeah. So the dry, Tim's dry cleaner, one question states, he did not use that chemical on Tim's members only jacket. There was no blood evidence. They just washed it.
01:07:17
Speaker
So they did a side by side of the jacket cleaned regularly. Like they got a jacket, washed it. They, they coated it in like animal blood, animal blood. Okay. Washed it. And you see it's clean, but then they, they spray it with Luminol and the jacket lights up. You can see the blood everywhere. Yeah. They pulled Tim's jacket out of evidence, which has not been cleaned. It's been, it's gone, gone the same process. This one just went, they put it under Luminol, not a single spec lights up. So.
01:07:45
Speaker
Number four piece of evidence they attacked was the burning barrel. The remains are collected out of this and there was nothing that could be linked back to the Eastburns. Now, everything else, all the other things they attacked, I agree with, I'm fine with. This one I'm not fine with because he didn't take the bodies, he took cleanup. So there's not gonna be anything left. And chemicals. Right? Okay, almost every household cleaning supply that you use
01:08:15
Speaker
has a caution, flammable warning. And so if you burn it, it's gonna be, exactly. There's not gonna be anything left to find it like that. He didn't take the bodies and burn the bodies. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So like, yeah, no, I go, I go where you're going. That one I don't agree with, but all major
01:08:32
Speaker
all major points against Tim have been 100% answered for. So now they start asking their own questions. The footprints outside the house, those were three times smaller than Tim's. Now you can fake an increased foot size, but you can't shrink your foot. Well, I mean, you know, there's the binding in ancient. True, but he's, you know, China. That's not what he did. So why, so why are the footprints so small, three times smaller?
01:09:01
Speaker
Moreover, why do none of the hairs match Tim's that were found? None of the head hairs, none of the pubic hairs. They don't match Tim. Well, I thought you said that they weren't, it wasn't that they didn't match, is that it was inconclusive. Why are they not a conclusive match if it was Tim? It's nobody in the house, everybody in the house has been rolled out. The pubic hair, come on. We're not the husband, we've not talked about him yet. He's been rolled out, 100%. Well, I'm just saying every crime. So why do none of the fingerprints match? Again, they were all considered at that point in time, inclusive.
01:09:30
Speaker
Well, they're going to call one more witness, the defenses. They call in a man and when he walks in, I guarantee you heard from the court because the man that walks in lives like four or five houses down for the Eastburn and he could be Tim's identical brother.
01:09:53
Speaker
same blonde hair, same mustache, same height, same belt. And he testifies that he walks the streets late at night because he can't sleep. So he's often walking at three or four o'clock in the morning up and down the streets. Wow.
01:10:08
Speaker
Um, and when he goes on these walks at nights, he walks around in a beanie and his members only jacket while the court, no, no, hold on. You'll have some
Tim's Acquittal and Military Trial
01:10:20
Speaker
to say in a minute. So the court is shocked, but the police are not because they know about this.
01:10:25
Speaker
They've already met this man. They've questioned this man. They went as far as to collect his beanie and members only jacket, put it in the trunk of a cop car. And he did not get it back until after Tim was convicted in the first murder case, because they thought it would confuse the jury because they looked too much alike and they had the same clothing. So they didn't want it tainting the conviction. So for 90 minutes,
01:10:48
Speaker
Yeah. The jury was subjected to horrific, unspeakable photos that nobody wants to see. Yeah, nobody. Gary had to sit there and see that of his family for 90 minutes. Not even that, but Tama had to sit there and look at it. And now he didn't even maybe do it. And the police have a guy that looks just like him, lives forced
01:11:11
Speaker
Hold nine. So, in my opinion, that is the place to that wrong. That is evidence and witness tampering. So the jury, go to absolutely no time, come back with not guilty verdict.
01:11:25
Speaker
Tim's family is ecstatic because this shows that the justice system can get it right. His little girl who's two years old at this time, who was a baby when this first started, is hugging him. There's pictures of him clinging to his neck, kissing her daddy. His family is over the moon. Everyone that knows him loves Tim. This is justice. This is court done right. This is how it should have gone from the beginning.
01:11:51
Speaker
However, the defense and the Eastburns are not celebrating because they know they just watched a murderer walk free. There's nothing that you can do to tell them otherwise. There's nothing that they can do to stop it. And it is a severe injustice to them because now that Tim is found not guilty in a court of law, double jeopardy is attached. He can never be tried for this crime again. Right. Now I'm going to, I'm going to invite you all real quick to my Ted talk. Um, so just prepare.
01:12:20
Speaker
Jump up on my soap box. I don't know where this is going. This is my question. OK, so if you're found guilty in a court of law in the United States of America, even if you tried a million times, even if you plead guilty and say I did it.
01:12:33
Speaker
you get appeal after appeal after appeal and you can get off on a technicality, right? 100%. Even if you're feeling guilty and sentenced to death, you have to have so many appeals. People have tried to waive their appeals and they still have appeals. So I'm okay with that because new evidence gets, technology's always going forward. So you get DNA evidence and you get things and people are convicted wrong. So I'm okay with that. But what I'm not okay with and what I don't understand is
01:13:04
Speaker
When you're found not guilty in a court of law in the United States of America, it's done. You get a free pass. No matter what technology comes out, no matter what evidence is found, they can have you dead to fricking rights and you're never allowed to be retried. And I feel like that is crazy. That is a double standard and I don't like it. Well, it's not even just that, but like, again, you just, you spoke real truth just now when you said,
01:13:31
Speaker
There are so many things technology wise that are coming out and how many people could be faced with double jeopardy who actually committed the crime. There's a whole movie off of it actually. Yeah, but that's my thing. So totally know it now. You can't do anything. Nothing. And I don't think that's right. I think if you get appeals one way, you should get pills the other way. If you're still not guilty.
01:13:51
Speaker
And they find something dead to rights. You should be able to be retried. They should be able to appeal your convict. You're you're not guilty convictions, just like you get to appeal your guilty conviction. I agree. Sorry. Thank you. 110. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. We will continue on with this case. I don't know what TED talk is. That's a new thing for me, too. Yeah. My soapbox, whatever you want to call it. But we're done is what it is.
01:14:14
Speaker
So back to Tim. Tim gets out of prison, obviously. He goes back to his military career. It's the only thing he knows. Exemplary 20 years of service. Nose is clean. Never gets in trouble. He and his wife move on with their lives. They have a second child. They have a great life. Tim literally becomes the poster boy for a wrongfully convicted
01:14:36
Speaker
person how how he overcame this adversity his life shows obviously for the next 20 years he doesn't even jaywalk like obviously he's a great guy yeah king of the mountain good sky on the other hand the eastburns are stuck in a holding pattern yeah with no answers no resolution to the gruesome murder of the three people they love the most
01:14:58
Speaker
The little baby, Jana, not even really ever getting to know her mother or her sister. I was going to ask, did she make it? She did. She didn't make it. Okay. So the case sat cold and literally uninvestigated. So they didn't even investigate the other guy. They didn't look further into it because the police knew they had their man and he got free and in their mind, they can't prosecute him. So this, this case is done. However, fast forward to May 2005. Everything changes.
01:15:25
Speaker
Captain Larry Trotter of the Cumberland County Sheriff's was at, um, at a detective seminar on advanced intelligence techniques, advanced criminal intelligence techniques. Sorry, there we go. And the Eastburn murders were actually discussed and reviewed in this panel.
01:15:43
Speaker
While there, the captain starts talking to a journalist, Scott Winsonhat, who had written and covered this case extensively when it happened back 20 years prior. During this conversation, the officer, this new captain, learns that the detectives off the original investigation extracted semen from Katie's body during the original investigation. But there was no DNA
01:16:06
Speaker
Testing then it was in its infancy, but you said that it was inconclusive not the DNA they couldn't test it the hair was the blood was Because back then they couldn't test the DNA in the hair They're literally putting two pieces of hair under microscope see if they match and pair. Yeah, so this evidence is literally sitting stored never been tested Captain Charter goes back immediately since the lab since the semen to a lab in Raleigh, North Carolina to be tested
01:16:34
Speaker
In June 2006, the lab has come back with a match that is 1.2 quadrillion times more likely to come from this one individual than anyone else. The investigator calls Gary Eastman, who now lives in London with his child, he's been remarried, and says, you need to sit down because we ran the DNA test and we've got a match. And this DNA test from the rape kit match, nobody else
01:17:01
Speaker
but Tim Hennis and everybody is shocked. How did they, how did this go so wrong? The second case, how did it fall apart?
01:17:13
Speaker
they let a man just walk away but more importantly how did a man who brutally murdered two children and a mother and killed her and raped her live such a boringly normal life serving his country in the military after committing such atrocious crime more importantly what do they do now because they can't put him on trial so
01:17:36
Speaker
No one knows what to do. It's the 2000s now. And nobody wants to live with the embarrassment, and everyone's trying to literally explain away these DNA results. But they can do that, because here's the problem. The lab in North Carolina, it comes out that this lab has been withholding and or distorting evidence to help prosecutions to secure conviction.
01:18:00
Speaker
which is terrifying because DNA is supposed to be the end all, be it all, right? This lab was found guilty of changing DNA and giving false reports to over 10 cases where the death conviction was in place. And more importantly, three people had already been put to death with false information provided by this lab.
01:18:24
Speaker
How does that happen and why? Because here's the thing, labs, labs and DNA tests are concrete, but the people who run them and write the reports and do it are not. They are fallible. So then are they being manipulated by money? Are they be like, how? I don't know. But this puts another huge cloud over the Eastburn situation.
01:18:51
Speaker
Now, the lab in question that did all these misreports, falsified reports, only tested the blood in the hair. They did not test the semen. But just to be sure, 100% sure, so nothing can be said, they take another sample of the semen, send it away to a different lab for testing. This lab found 12 billion to one chance that the DNA found inside Katie Eastburn
01:19:19
Speaker
could belong to anyone other than Tim Hennessey. So again, dead to rights. But according to the laws in the United States of America, he's okay. That's why you went off on your double jeopardy. He can't be touched as a United States citizen. That's not true. Well, Tim Hennessey- Because I feel like at this point, if I was the spouse who lost everyone, I'd pop a cap in him and take it.
01:19:45
Speaker
Well, Tim Hennessy was retired from his military career, but the US government recalled him to active duty in the military.
01:19:54
Speaker
As soon as he was active, they alerted him that he was under arrest and will be tried in military court for the murder of Katie Eastberg. No way. Yep. Because the military can do what the heck they want. Heck yes. Heck yes. Sorry. I'm so happy. That's so, that's social justice. It's so justifying because. That's social justice. Citizens do not get that, but because it was a military
01:20:16
Speaker
They said, hey, you're active again. Guess what? You fall under our jurisdiction, not a civilian jurisdiction, and you're under arrest. So trial number three, here we go. So trial number three, he has a completely new defense attorney and strategy. I need to know. Well, let me tell you what this, this new strategy is. Okay. So this time his lawyers take the stance that Tim and Katie had conceptual set consensual sex prior to the murder. Yeah. When Tim went to pick up the dog.
01:20:44
Speaker
His lawyer was a really smart man and went to a military court where the jury is a panel of active military men and basically said, it's well known that military wives cheat on their husband all the time while on assignment. That's what Katie did. Oh my God. Yep. So whether it's true or not, that's not the best thing to be like, Hey, all your wives are hoes and going to cheat on you. Cause that's basically what the lawyer's strategy was. Wow.
01:21:12
Speaker
Okay. So, uh, you know, not great. Um, the jury did not buy this at all. No, because they're not, their wives aren't hosts. That's not what military wives are about. Now we're about to start stacking up some shit. I understand it happens, but no, you're not. No, normally not, not only that, um, Tim always stated that he never had sex with Katie, never had any contact besides buying this dog.
01:21:38
Speaker
so they basically they asked him you're saying now and he said well i didn't want to cause any more pain to gary easman you know raping and murdering his wife brutally killing his two small daughters that that's okay pain but i don't want to tell him we we were cheating give me a freaking break right
01:21:55
Speaker
He said that that that's that's that he didn't say the the second part about as well. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the jury obviously agrees with me because they said guilty sentence to death. However, in a military court with that sentence, you cannot you can be sentenced to death in military court. But the president has to approve the death, which has not been done in the United States since the 1960s.
01:22:21
Speaker
So he will probably just live out his days in prison either way. But he was found guilty and he was sent to a military prison. Was he in Quantico at least? I don't know. But here's my thing. All this being said, here's why I say it's controversial or polarizing case. Here's my question. Whose blood was on the rag because it wasn't Tim Hennes's? Whose fingerprints were in the house?
01:22:44
Speaker
Why were there footprints that didn't match him? Whose pubic hair was that? Whose DNA was that under Katie and Kara's fingernails?
01:22:54
Speaker
because that was never tested. You tested the semen. You did. But in a military, but here's the deal. In the military court, all tests have to be approved by the judge. The judge did not allow the testing of the DNA evidence under the fingernails or anything else because they had him dead to rights on the semen. But my question is,
01:23:15
Speaker
Obviously someone else was there right and then there's this whole other guy that looked exactly like this guy Who wasn't tested for anything not charged for anything just question I think they I think they questioned him and I think they probably tested him But he literally like he's the one that came for like the police knew I told them they took my stuff and hid it
01:23:35
Speaker
Yeah. So what do you think? Did you do it? That's the story. All right. So you have a rape kit saying he was there. Rape. There is there's there's there. His semen was found inside Katie. So but the head hair found on top of Kara. That's also like what not degenerative. What's the word I'm looking at? It disintegrates over time. Yeah. And they didn't. So you're not going to get like a real sample out of like head hair that dries out or whatever like you would with blood. But
01:24:04
Speaker
I think he did it. I'm just going to put my two cents out there. I think he did it only because he changed his story. Then I was like, yeah, we had sex. I don't know. It's weird. Here's the thing. Cause he was like, test it, test it. You won't find me. He was so confident. Right. But then he's also married with a newborn. And so if he, if it came to light that he was cheating on his wife,
01:24:27
Speaker
Because technically in the military, you can you can be brought up on charges for for yeah, adultery. Yeah, it's no joke. Like they've got their own rules. Thank God, because he's serving time now. And I honestly think that postcard, the Mr X postcard never ever brought justification. Well, it's not also never brought up. It was now never really followed up on. And I want to I want to give you one more little thing.
01:24:51
Speaker
One more little apple of truth. Well, it's
Justice System Reflections
01:24:54
Speaker
just a, I think it's smoke and mirrors. I think it's a very, very big coincidence, but if anybody researches this case, they're going to see it. So I'm going to tell you about it. 15 years prior to these burns murder in the exact same town, exact same thing happened. Husbands in the military wife and children are murdered at the house. Same, same setup, same everything.
01:25:17
Speaker
The husband in this case was found guilty, but it's the same town, same mother and children are killed, husbands away.
01:25:29
Speaker
I kind of wonder at this point, like, because here's the deal. If this could possibly be linked, most serial killers are not going to just if they're not a one and done kind of people. Yeah. Right. So if he's deployed somewhere else or stationed somewhere else in the United States, how many other cases could possibly match? You don't know. Exactly. But why don't like why don't we look outside the box like that? Like, I don't know. Because they I mean, technically his semen was inside her.
01:25:59
Speaker
He raped her. But again, no, you don't know if he was raped. You don't. You don't. You don't. Like I said, it's a very polarizing case. It's a crap shoot. It is a crap shoot because there is no way to definitively know.
01:26:13
Speaker
There's people on both sides. But here's the deal. In my case, if it were me, wife, child, in my case, husband, children, whatever, right? And the person that I'm having an affair with winds up dead. In my mind, I'm just going to go ahead and say we were having an affair. This is what happens. This is this is the night we slept together. You're going to find me upon that person. Yeah.
01:26:38
Speaker
Again, but that's you today back then they didn't have DNA But what I'm saying is so they would rather they couldn't find that I would rather air my dirty laundry out front and say This is this is what happened. Yeah, this is where we were at. My DNA is gonna be ABCD 1 2 3 and
01:26:57
Speaker
all over this place but they didn't have DNA and he said test test whatever you want to take it fingerprints aren't his exactly the shoe prints aren't his yeah the pubic hair is not his the head hair found on the chest a little girl that was stabbed to death not his just the semen and they very well could have been having an affair they bet now not the best a bitch out of me but i'm saying but like
01:27:20
Speaker
Had he been up front with that affair at the very beginning and not come back and say, oh yeah, well, we were sleeping together. But it was just a one-time thing. Nobody cares anymore. My wife was gone. Her husband was gone. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, nobody cares anymore. Like, you already lied. Yeah. We already don't trust you. Yeah. You screwed up. And you'll pay for it now for the rest of your life behind bars not watching your kids grow up. Yeah, your kids are grown now. When all you had to do was just confess to the fact that you're a crap man. So that's my case.
01:27:48
Speaker
I hate you. I know right? I guess so cuz you don't know you can argue both ways Yeah, and there's enough evidence for both both sides. All right, so then I'm just gonna shout out to the public You're having a fair with somebody and they die Confess to the affair. We have DNA evidence now worst case scenario you get a divorce But you still have rights in the court of law to see your kids. All right Or keep it in your pants man. Don't cheat man. Well, it doesn't matter. I
01:28:15
Speaker
You're going to get sick of that person you're having an affair with just as much as you're sick of your current spouse. Just keep it where it is. Where it should be is what it is. Plant your own lawn, not your friends. I was going to say some things, but yeah, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I've already got to edit out some stuff. So on your part for once. I know. Right. Do anything wrong. I said a full name. I was kind of proud of myself. I wouldn't go that far. Shut up. You know, that's my case. That was a good one.
01:28:42
Speaker
That was again, you had me going like like because I'm like, you know, no, no, I don't know. I don't know. At the end of the day, it's a 50 50. It's like in my mind, it is a 50 50 shot. You don't. It is literally the only person that knows whether or not he's innocent. Is Ted Tim Tim. Ted was my Ted talk. Tim is Tim. I don't know. You know, I really wish Jana
01:29:08
Speaker
had just been old enough to be able to stay. I don't. Holy hell, I don't. Could you imagine? She remembers it just to be able to say if she knew. She was not even two yet. She is going to have post-traumatic stress. Don't get me wrong. 100%. But when it comes to memory, how many childhood memories do you have between the age of birth date and 18 months? None. But I'm just saying, just to be able to put
01:29:39
Speaker
Two and two together. A definitive nail. I hate that there's this is just such a big question mark for me. Yeah. Like. I can't tell you, I mean, on the one hand, I really feel like he's guilty.
01:29:53
Speaker
On the other hand, there is a lot of evidence that says he's not. And I don't know. Yeah. This is why every time I get jury duty, I'm like, God, please don't let it be me. Like, I don't I don't want to be that person. I want to be that person. I don't want to be that person. You want to hold the life of somebody else in your hands. Yes, because I know I do a damn good job of it and I would I would do it to the best of my abilities. I don't know. You are very logical. So I could kind of agree with that.
01:30:19
Speaker
I get emotionally enraged. You got to cut emotions. I don't know how to do that. I need to, but I'm still not going to convict someone. I don't think guilty. Like if it comes to like pedophilia or things like that, I'm done. I'm done. I can't. Now, I do think I do think in this case, if I was on either jury, I would have said he was guilty. There was too much evidence stacked against him. And the prosecutor did a very, very good job of tightening all the bows, if you will. And you know what?
01:30:50
Speaker
The defense, the defense, the second case brought it home and the prosecution was lazy and went with their original information without considering the fact that his lawyers knew everything that they were going to say and they were ready for it. Yeah. Not even that, but you're in a completely different atmosphere now. Yeah. Completely different. This is not civil court anymore. You're trying to convince
01:31:15
Speaker
Yeah, the jury people like the final end our country. Yeah. The final, that's the third case. The final case. His lawyer was an idiot because you don't, I mean, seriously, you're going to sit in front of all those jurors who are active military men and be like, well, you know, active military men's lives. They, they cheat all the time. Cause you know, all those people are gonna be like, uh, not I, not my, not Susie Q at home. She is the best. She makes amazing banana bread and she sleeps in my bed. Yeah.
01:31:43
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like why would that be your main defense? What an idiot. The prosecution seemed like it did a really good job until the third where it became. It fell apart there at the end. That's the only thing that leads me to believe he's guilty is the third military court. They basically were like, Oh yeah, they were having an affair. They slept together. You're telling me he came to pick up a dog.
01:32:07
Speaker
This is my thing. He comes to pick up a dog and buy a family dog. She's fixing a move. She's got three children, a five year old, a three year old, and like an 18 month old. She just met you off the street, but she's going to invite you in for some hanky-panky with her three girls at home.
01:32:24
Speaker
Because men and women are very differently, definitely, uh, wired when it comes to that kind of biology. Like men will go sleep with a woman off the street. Yeah. Women. Usually there's an emotional connection first. It's an emotional affair before physical. So there would have had to have been proof in my eyes, in my eyes that they were talking to each other long before that. I don't, I do not buy that he went to pick up a dog and she was so awestruck that she said, come in and let's, you know, unless she was drugged. Yeah.
01:32:53
Speaker
I just, that's the only thing that makes me lean towards he's guilty. I just do not see a mother. Number one, she's at home alone with her three daughters. She's trying to pack up her life to move to London. She's tired. I've only got one kid. I'm tired. I'm tired after a regular day. I do not want to put out to
01:33:21
Speaker
Anyone no my poor husband no and not some rando. I'm gonna buy my dog I would muster the energy for Ian Somerhalder. I'm telling you right the frick now. I don't care how tired I am Smolder I will rally Oh my gosh in summer home. I would rally for in summer home. I'm just telling right now
01:33:48
Speaker
I will do any, I will, I will find contortions within my body. Yeah. Sorry, Frankie, but you know, Frankie knows my obsession with a young summer halber.
01:34:02
Speaker
But you know what I mean, like, you're, it is, but that's my thing. She is a mom. She has three young girls at home. I am not bringing some rando man into my house. Number one, number two, what I think if I have sex with you, you're going to take better care of my dog. No, I'm selling you my dog. I want you out. I don't want to sit here and be sad about my dog. I don't want my kids to be sad about my dog. I'm not having sex with some random man that just comes and knocks on my door. That is not a good defense in my,
01:34:29
Speaker
I was saying, like, if there was to be an actual affair about this, it would have been there would have been some kind of evidence. I feel like I feel that that is not this was not a one and done. That is why I stand by and lean more towards guilty because all the other evidence, you know what? The footprints. Here you go. The footprints. Someone else could have been walking around her house. They're fixing to sell it. Yep. They're fixing to get rid of it. Yep. Other people are going to be walking around.
01:34:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, because I've driven by houses. Not only that, the police officer walked around the house peeking in the windows when the first officer that was sent, he walked around, the neighbor walked around, the babysitter walked around. So you don't know whose footprints those are, number one. Number two, the fingerprints. Okay, fine. Again, I tell you, they were getting ready to move. She's selling off stuff. They have people in and out. They probably live on a military base. So they have people come in to view the house for the next tenant.
01:35:27
Speaker
They've probably had people over. By God, I don't dust all my stuff all the time. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. And head hair. Good Lord. If it's a crime scene and it based
Conclusion and Unresolved Mysteries
01:35:38
Speaker
off head hair, I could be convicted at any crime where I've ever been because I shed like a German Shepherd. Yeah. So there's number three. So all that now and the blood on the rag, it was never, it wasn't able to be tested because it was too mixed with the victim's blood to ever get a true DNA. All they had was the semen.
01:35:57
Speaker
And I don't buy an affair. So in my mind, I'm not 50, 50. I'm like 80, 20. There's a few things. But date and times where we can collect that show me or show me where they went to coffee. Yeah. Show me where they like were talking over an extended period of time. One of your neighbors saw that car before that night because clearly your car was recognized so much so that they said it was a white Chevette.
01:36:26
Speaker
Yes. But again, there was the other neighbor that had the members only jacket, the beanie that looked like Tim that walked around. It could have been him walking. He could have had a trash bag and just walked by the Eastman's house and Patrick saw him. You just don't know. Patrick was in and out of trouble with the law. He wanted an ace up his sleeve to get out of trouble and that's what he got.
01:36:48
Speaker
This case is convoluted. Not even that. At best. Just because you say, I saw this happen at this time, does not mean that that was the last person that was there. And eyewitness testimonies are so unreliable. Yes. And you're telling me at three o'clock in the morning, you're lucid? Heck, you show me something at three p.m. by three twenty five. I can't remember what you told me. Guys, listen, if I have to pee at three o'clock in the morning, I have a heavy debate about whether or not I'm getting up.
01:37:17
Speaker
And then normally just go back to sleep. So I have a lot. I don't know. I've got a hard time with this one. I can't make up my mind, but I lean more towards guilty. Yeah. And I'm glad that he was able to be recalled to active duty and way to go military for sticking it.
01:37:35
Speaker
when you believed in injustice because casual civilians don't get it. The point that you drove home tonight for me is the fact that we can have so many court dates, so much money poured into the court system for people who are clearly guilty, who get retried and retried and they... They get off on a technicality. Yeah. Like literally. And they can't be retried for it. And then once you're found none guilty, you're just freaking clear. You got away with it. That's crazy.
01:38:03
Speaker
So anyway, that's our stories, North Carolina and New York. Hope you enjoyed. I will post some pictures. I've got some pictures of the Eastburns. I've got pictures, little Jana, Tim. I'll have to look up some pictures of my homie here and we'll put the article from the Rolling Stokes. And I promise you guys that we will learn the alphabet at some point. I do not promise that because this is like my third time. Yeah.
01:38:27
Speaker
You're going to have to give me an alphabet chart. Maybe I can get from kindergarten. I got you. I got you. But we will record again. Fingers crossed tomorrow for New Mexico and whatever Lisa has next. I don't know because I don't know my alphabet or state. Yeah, I haven't even looked. I'll get it done, though. Yeah, I've already got mine half done. Actually, I've written three whole cases about New Mexico and I just found a different one. I liked and I changed it today. So it's amazing how that works.
01:38:50
Speaker
I like to I like to find really controversial awful case. I was going to say it's like a rabbit hole. Yeah. Like you find one and then you dig deeper and then it's. Yeah. Yeah. But I hope you guys enjoyed the tellings of our stories. Absolutely. And I am so sorry for the the very long wait for the rest of my story. But life happens and I'm sure you all know about that. So anyway, have a good day and we will talk to you later. Bye. Bye.