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Mr. Potato Head Really Let Himself Go! with Jack Whitaker
1 Playsin 21 hours
This week we were thrilled to have a world-travelin’, freewheelin’, Ivy wearin’ Welshman in the studio (a first for us!), Jack Whitaker. We had a great time chatting about how the contrast of growing up in the Middle East and a small village in Wales, getting into clothing through skater style, shoes as a first fashion love, tough love from friends, the differences between American and English tailoring, clothing hills we die on, Oasis, financial industry dress stereotypes, and tons of other tangents!
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest Jack Whittaker
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. i am your co-host Connor Flower. and I am your other co-host Matt Smith. And today I think the show will be quite a treat.
00:00:15
Speaker
ah This has been in the works for some time. um there have been some scheduling delays but we are excited to finally present to you Jack Whittaker, Welshman.
00:00:29
Speaker
welshmen which I think is a show first. And we have actually already been talking like off the record for 15 minutes. So we figured we would get it on ah and and, you know, ah let people hear what we're talking about since that's the whole point. Yeah, yeah. Jack, how's it going today?
00:00:50
Speaker
Well, thanks guys. Yeah, has been in the works for a while. I've been ah admiring from afar across the pond. Obviously, I think you've had a couple of my fellow, cut not my fellow countrymen, but a fellow couple of fellow Brits on as well. So it's nice to be ah added to the mix. And then, yeah, I'm really excited. to have We reluctantly have British people on the show. i car Well, you know since the 1700s, you guys have really held a gripe.
00:01:16
Speaker
So but don't really um really ah really don't understand. Apparently something happened. But apparently you guys beat us at something. But don't really. i don't know. Let's move on. And who can say who who can say how that went?
00:01:30
Speaker
again we added but we had an off day we were we were we were spread too we were spread too thin we were every everywhere but nowhere all at once as they say voice I've always found it hilarious that I personally like i love British comedy obviously music is a huge huge part of you know my life and my love and a lot of English rock bands and and musicians and things but yeah yeah I have a pretty positive view of the Brits overall like as people.
00:02:04
Speaker
yeah But I think it's both ways. action, they have made some complicated decisions, let's say. Hey, hindsight's 20-20.
Jack's Background and Fashion Journey
00:02:17
Speaker
We have. We but yeah we got
00:02:21
Speaker
Well, so speaking of that, Ben, I wanted to delve into your ah history, I guess, because so you say you're from Wales, but you grew up at least at some portion in the Middle East. I can't think of places that are more different than that. I mean, I haven't been to a desert, but I have been to Wales, and I know that it's not like a desert.
00:02:43
Speaker
So surprised you're asking. You can't really tell by my tanned complexion that I was... born and raised or born in Wales, raised in Middle East. But um so I spent the first I guess it's kind of where I started getting into clothes really as well. But when was born and raised in Wales, a small village called Pontyclean, parents still live there now, beautiful place. But then around the age of 10,
00:03:09
Speaker
my old man got a job ah in the Middle East in Dubai. Well, before Dubai was like, you know, the cool place to live where everyone with like a hair transplant and influencer lives there now and all that sort of stuff. It's, you know, it's up and coming place.
00:03:23
Speaker
So we moved there and then, yeah spent five years so from the age of 9, 10 till 14, living in like, a living in Dubai, playing sport, the very big expat community.
00:03:36
Speaker
But interestingly, ah yeah not to talk about clothes straight away, but where it sort of started began, but I've always sort of been fascinated by like the skate culture. And when, you know, in Wales, it wasn't really a big thing at the time. There's a couple of skate shops, but because all these Americans and Canadians and South Africans and Australians and New Zealanders all started moving into Dubai at this time, there was actually ah an abundance of skate shops. Now, I never skated. have terrible balance and all that sort of thing. I was fascinated by,
00:04:06
Speaker
was it it was like you know those drain pipe jeans the osiris shoes o as oh yeah you know change the laces out make them red don't tie them up real fucking you know try and be really and again wouldn't touch a skateboard i'd buy a magazine that's so i feel that's so i don't know it is sort of particular to skateboarding don't you think that like you can be so like about it and then like I don't skateboard at all. I've never skateboarded. Like I like my bones to be intact.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah. I don't want my SPs dirty. I kind of like them clean. Right. Right. Right. And that's the other, that's the other major thing. like But yeah, then obviously I spent five years in the Middle East there, came back to Wales then for a few years and then went away to school again in Gloucester, which was, again, I have a story about that, how I got, well, got into clothes then really heavily because but in that period between Dubai and Gloucester was when it was like Hollister and Abercrombie sort of threw up all over Wales. And like everyone was, so and I i was probably being thrown up on i was wearing aber crombmer and how i was i thought i was this fourers this che really is' absolutely happily being thrown up on.
00:05:27
Speaker
awful and like to the point where i used to like ah Yeah, wear everything Hollister. I think there's another brand as well in the UK called Jack Wills. And then until I went to ah Gloucester, um I won't mention his name on the podcast, but um this my friend, a very good friend of mine sat me down and he was like, look, you look like shit.
00:05:48
Speaker
You dress like... You dress like shit and you listen to shit music, you can sort out two of them. And there's the two I sorted out from the dressing and the music side of thing where i really started getting into the other stuff and trying to find my way. But yeah, so that was Grosster there for two years.
00:06:06
Speaker
Didn't do very well at school, so i ended up going to Oxford, Brooks, not the good Oxford, the other university down the road. um Spent three years there, again, getting more and more into clothes and then, yeah, finished university.
00:06:20
Speaker
Again, this a bit of a rabbit hole now. And I went home from university, got a law degree. And I was like, mum, dad, I'm going to work in a shoe shop. They were like, what? And I was like, I'm going to work in a shoe shop after university. They were like, don't be an idiot. You just spent three years at university. what are you doing? i was like, you watch me. I'm going to do this.
00:06:39
Speaker
So then I got on a well, couldn't have a Greyhound, a mega bus from Cardiff down to London, i went um went down to went down to German Street. And then I printed before I printed off all my CVs.
00:06:51
Speaker
Prints off CVs, went down the German street and I was handing CVs into Trickers, Cheneys, Barkers, all these sort of things. i Ended up chatting to a guy in Cheney and then Luckily enough, got offered with a job, got took the Megabus home, took all the way home, told my parents, like, see, look, I can do this. And they were like, all right, sort of like, you know, ah we'll see about that. And then the the contract came through, and I was like, I can't live off this. So then I, ah unfortunately, my sho my shoe team my shoe dream died there and then very quickly.
00:07:22
Speaker
And then I... well so why was it why did you want to work in a shoe store i mean specifically i have been obsessed with shoes probably since probably since i was a kid through like soccer cleats or football boots i'd always be obsessed obsessed with like the way they fit the way they looked certain people wearing them and then obviously everyone goes through that sort of boy era when you get really into your sneakers and trainers and i yeah I was like, you know, very big Air Max one guy um started getting into that side of thing. i had the awful, I shouldn't call them awful because in case people like them, but the um the I had the Comme des Garcons Converse. I thought I was the coolest. Very much like tu Tumblr 2014 atrocities sort of looks, that sort of vibe. But like the elongated, what was it, like Justin Bieber, Fear of God sort thing where were like, yeah, a super long t-shirt, then a fucking t-shirt down to your knees. Well, and he must not be named, just released a new album.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, great. Very, very, very that period of time. Like 2014, I think, like is the the essence of that time, arguably, like... Uh, what a weird time.
00:08:40
Speaker
And, and no, so you were going to work in shoe
Fashion Preferences and Philosophies
00:08:43
Speaker
stores. You were looking at shoe stores. You were looking at dress shoe stores though, right? Like trickers and that are, are, are at least, um, I dunno, it's not like you're going to work at a journey or a No, whatever good year welled only, baby. But then before I got on to that, it was like, so anyway, got started buying trainers and stuff like that. And then I'm not a small guy. i would find that when I'd wear trainers quite a lot, you'd wear away quite quickly.
00:09:07
Speaker
you know, they' either the bubble would go or like, the you know, they'd look a bit, I think, think the difference between obviously you some trainers, you can, or sneakers, sorry for my American listeners. You can, be them either way our guests are, our guests are very, very smart. They can figure out what a British person is talking about. Yeah. What a Welsh person is talking I also, i like the one i like Trainer better than Sneaker, in my opinion. Like, it sounds cooler. Sneaker is like, But it's like, I don't know. I feel like, well, no, I mean, I feel like um ah not white people have made Sneaker cool.
00:09:44
Speaker
And otherwise, it's like, not that cool, you know? yeah Trainer is like, Trainer is like, sophisticated. Trainer is like, urbane. Yeah, and it's like the gauge, it's like, oh, you know, I'll just say trainer or daps. Daps is a good one as well. People say, oh I've checked some daps on. That's what my Bampi, my grandfather would say, my Bampi. But yeah, wearing these trainers and stuff that, and they just wear away. And then when I was 19,
00:10:08
Speaker
I asked for my birthday and they were reasonable at the time. they're more expensive now for a pair of RM Williams Chelsea boots. So I liked the way they looked and you could wear them. I still got them now, but I started reading into like, I love the idea of just getting something repaired and fixed and like just getting repaired and fixed, repaired and fixed. And for me, I think the difference between like sort of like trainers and And then like you' your standard dress shoes. is I quite like when a dress shoe starts building up those creases, you know, the polish, the years and years of polish.
00:10:41
Speaker
Whereas like there's only a couple, I think that's the same for every dress shoe. um Whereas I think with trainers, only a certain type of trainer looks good beaten up. Right, right. Yeah, like Converse, man.
00:10:56
Speaker
Plastic doesn't age well. Nope. You know, so it's like if you have a canvas shoe that's going to look better. If you have a leather shoe, whatever the grade of leather is even, like that's going to look better. But if it's a like plastic upper, like you the thing is belongs in the trash anyway.
00:11:14
Speaker
I'm probably in the minority here, but I do think like classic Jordans, like one through five or so. i don't like the two. So one, three, four and five look fucking sick when they're beat up.
00:11:28
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I'm not excluding those. Like, those are included in the leather. um yeah Yeah, they're quite a leathery shoe, to be honest. Yeah, it's not like majority leather. um But yeah, it is funny. I mean, it seems like sneakers, trainers, what have you. Footwear really are the way for a lot of people.
00:11:48
Speaker
Like, denim. Denim is a big one. yeah But it's like denim and sneakers are a way to work your way into different. I will say one more thing. This guy from my class came over today and he was saying like we were sort of high and he was saying, what if the point of clothing is to cycle through it all to kind of gain a better understanding of
00:12:20
Speaker
a style through your own participation in it. And I was like, I don't know what I think about that idea necessarily, but I was glad that he had that thought.
00:12:32
Speaker
i think that's think that sort of leads me to a question where I have for both of you, which I've written down. So like, obviously, our, you know, fashion changes quite regularly, right? But think people that listen to this and ask on the call now i do have our sort of sort of core staples in the wardrobe but what would you say is like your most irrational fashion or like piece of fashion or style advice that you like what would you die what hill would you die on so like for me for example like do you know when you're mean we've heard that sorry what is the most irrational fashion hill you'll die on that's the better way of doing that was talking about it and i do apologize yeah matt has a ton of good answers let's see No, no. You got to go first. Okay, I'll go first. I do have an answer. I do have an answer. Let's shoot have a guy on this hill. Fucking on it.
00:13:24
Speaker
John Leisure Loafing. Hello. Leisurely Loafing. Hello. we if This is about black loafers now. Is this about black cordovan? It's about black at all. You said this. You said this. And it's like, I don't... I do have cordovan shoes. i You do? I don't consider them black. Yes. Because they're fucking red.
00:13:45
Speaker
He said this. He said to us this separately. dark bright Oh my God. He put you up to this. Yeah. so he said thomas good He said to us separately, but this irrational fashion hill, I thought it was a bit. I have always, i have always kind of thought this way.
00:14:02
Speaker
ah It's better to wear color as someone like, I don't know. I think I'm a little bit fucked anyway, because I'm a redhead.
00:14:14
Speaker
So it's like, I have like, I don't see, color I don't see color. My bad. Sorry. right I have like, uh, that on my head.
00:14:25
Speaker
And so I figured that I ought to wear other colors and Brown is a color in a way that black is not a color. That's a strong hill. That's a strong hill.
00:14:36
Speaker
Oh, it's a strong hill. And so, I mean, I don't, I don't have any black stuff. So you're saying, fuck you, leisurely loafing. I'm not saying, I mean, listen, he keeps telling me that he's going to buy me a pair of black loafers and then perhaps I would be a black loafer guy. I just don't see, just don't see like a pair of brown loafers that has no wear on them and a pair of brown loafers that super beat up beats the black loafers, I think.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, i hate black bloopers too, so if you can send me a pair. I hate them. They're the worst. Right, and money bags can put his money where his mouth is. Yeah, awesome.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah. I'll send me a 10.5D, please. It should be easy to remember because I'm a nine, so just kind of gulp the go up the scale, you know? Yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah. After you, Matt.
00:15:37
Speaker
you hang up Matt, you must have a thousand things because Matt has peculiar peculiarities that almost always make sense.
00:15:50
Speaker
So it's like, I know that you got it. um And yeah, this is this is hard on the spot. um Because you have opinions about loafers.
00:16:05
Speaker
Yeah. terms of format. Yeah. But like these, those are not, those are not necessarily hills that I would die on. They're just like, you hate a Kilty Loafer. I think probably more than anyone hates a shoe. Whoa. Tell me about this. Let's dig into this.
00:16:22
Speaker
Okay, yeah, I really do. This is not my my final answer, but this is you know probably in the top five. ah I think Kilty Loafers are, and especially a Kilty with a Tassel, are the ugliest loafers ever created.
00:16:39
Speaker
And I don't think they look good on anyone. Sorry, John. Sorry, Connor. i know I know both of you have an affinity for But they're brown. Yeah. I mean, I don't even, i don't give a shit what the color is. Like, I just think they're they're an abomination.
00:16:54
Speaker
Because it's like, it's kind of like That's the thumbnail. Abomination. Yeah, abomination. um They just, they don't have a place, in my opinion. Like, they they're they're any... Okay, so in America in particular, which is the only country I've ever lived in,
00:17:13
Speaker
if you're wearing anything that's not a pair of trainers or, you know, like sneakers, sneakers, you know, if you're, if you're just in the world out in the world and you're not wearing like sneakers or like, you know, if if you, you know, you wear work boots because that's a part of your day, like doing manual labor or whatever, like,
00:17:35
Speaker
any Anything that's not that, that's like vaguely quote unquote address you yeah is' formal for 99.9% of people. So like, but they don't look good with, in my opinion, they're, they're too casual to really be worn like with a pair of trousers and a sport jacket, but they're all, they're not casual enough to like,
00:18:00
Speaker
to really look good with like a pair of jeans and a, you know, a t-shirt or something like, you mean it's well-reasoned. They find, yeah, they they, they, they're in this like no man's land in my opinion of like, nick though, that they are a shout out to Scottish culture.
00:18:19
Speaker
I mean, they definitely are. <unk> But we're not in fucking Scotland. And we're not in the 1800s or whenever the kilt was designed. That's true. yeah you know If you're playing bagpipes with a kilt on, sure, go for it. where Well, could you wear them with a kilt is the question? Or is that a brick? Nah, fuck no.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say. like What's the fucking... What's the shoe with like... Shit, I can't remember what it's called. but the The traditional like Scottish shoe. that Yeah, I know the one you mean. I have no idea what they're called. I would have known this a decade ago, but I haven't thought about it in probably 10 years.
00:18:57
Speaker
um Yeah, you have. have them buy these days These Kilties have been on your mind. Oh, Kilties have definitely been on my mind. But the the other traditional shoe is what I mean. like i can't remember I can't remember what it's called. But, you know, like...
00:19:12
Speaker
But what about derbies of Kilties? You know how like, I think JM Weston has a golf shoe, Amelie on door of Dunbarnau, like that's sort of like... more except more acceptable or is it the fact that it's the loafer and the kilty together that you don't like? It's the loafer and the kilty together. i like There's ah a US brand Justin boots. you know I grew up in rural Georgia and like there's a lot of people that ride horses and things and like ranches and shit. and like you know Justin does a design and has forever with a little kilty at the bottom. and like i don't I don't mind shit like that or like a derby but it's the loafer kilty that gets me.
00:19:52
Speaker
Well, that hill yeah so that's that's top five. I dread to think what the other four are. jesus ah the The first one that came to my head when you asked is that people treat their clothes too precious.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, I was respect that. And like I'm talking most like even tailored clothing. like if It's been a while since I've worn you know a sport coat or anything, but like I wear those the exact same as I wear like a chore jacket.
00:20:19
Speaker
Like it's, and if it can't handle being a part of my wardrobe, then I don't need it. So, you know, I think people that baby their clothes are, i don't know, fucked in the head in a weird way. Like, I know it's- We're poor. We're poor. Or a poor, yeah. i mean, I'm not- Oh, alright, Matt. It's not a broad- No, I'm saying in my case, right? Right, right. I burden my shit because I can't afford to buy another one, you know what I mean? If I get a hole in this thing, it's fucked. John was showing me what the reweaving cost is.
00:20:52
Speaker
It's like, for a pinhole, it's like $1,000. See, Jesus. That's so expensive. jesus ah so so expensive Yeah, yeah honestpe honestly, honestly, think that that looks worse than just like darning it yourself. or I agree. with my artist Because I think once it's got a hole in it, it's like you can't do it again. i mean, you have to darn it. You have to make it like an obvious.
00:21:17
Speaker
You have to acknowledge its presence. I don't know. I think. I probably told this story before on air, but I worked for like an old, a super old school menswear store years ago.
00:21:29
Speaker
And like I was just running around, you know, grabbing shit. And I caught like one of my patch pockets on this, on the corner of a counter and it like busted some stitches.
00:21:39
Speaker
And I was like, okay. ah We had a table shop in the back. I could have taken it back there immediately and gotten it stitched back up or whatever. But I just took like five safety pins and pinned them on the inside of my jacket.
00:21:51
Speaker
And all the stodgy old dudes that I worked with looked on horrified. And I was just like, dude, i'm I'm busy. Like, I don't have time to do this shit. I don't want to like walk around with a shirt tie and no jacket on. So fuck it. It works. It works. It's going you know, it's going to get more wear at some point or another anyway, and I'll get it fixed at some point or another.
00:22:12
Speaker
But isn't that like...
Work Attire and Personal Style
00:22:13
Speaker
There's no But I was going to say, isn't that like... This is what I find particularly fascinating about clothes is seeing the wrong... Seeing clothes not in the environment that they're purposed for, if that makes sense. I love seeing that. Like, you'll see like like a guy... it could be... Again, not to... It could be ah a barber with a pair of cordovan loafers on or like a really...
00:22:35
Speaker
tattered up guy in a suit i love that sort of juxtaposition to you and like the intended use of clothings to what the actual person is using them for i that that to me is like the best seeing people do that for me is like the best way to dress because they are sort of, they just know what they're doing. And and like for me, that's like another telltale sign. Someone likes clothes, doesn't just buy for the brand. They just sort of like really respect the clothing. The fact they're thinking, you know what, I'm going to wear what the fuck I want, when I want it, how I want it, and then just yeah wear it for its intended purpose. I think that's, and coming back onto to your,
00:23:08
Speaker
sort of what you're saying about the patch pockets with your with the pins and stuff like that's why i think when it comes to like the you know all these sort of types of clothing styles we like whether it's like heritage you know l.l bean jay precious your brooks brothers i think it's quite cool seeing that sort of like people you know well the you know, where these, all these sort of clothing brands started, you know on campuses, stuff like that. And then getting to the eighty s ninety s early 2000s, when like, obviously the hardcore scene was popping off, the hip hop scene was popping off and people started wearing that sort of like clothing. Is that sort of resurgence again?
00:23:43
Speaker
I think that's what it's like for me, I really like that side of the, you know, this, when it comes to wearing clothes and, you know, i probably never be able, I work in finance, so I can never sort of do that, you know, by quite like seeing that and how people take that on.
00:23:57
Speaker
Right. Well, what a this is a question that we had for a little later on. But like what you know what's the kind of like ah office stereotype uniform you know for for you as a financial person?
00:24:14
Speaker
I'll let you guys guess, then I'll tell you what I wear.
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, I guess we have to mention the quarter zip, the infamous quarter zip. ah I would say probably like some performance khakis, slim.
00:24:34
Speaker
bob And then I would say, i mean, and this is like, I'm throwing this, but like the sneaker dress shoe hybrid shoe. See, I was just thinking that even even as lax as everything's gotten, I feel like people in the UK would not go the sneaker shoe route, but I could be totally wrong. I think you're right. I think they would wear something cheap, though.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah. Or maybe expensive. i you're missing a You're missing one thing, the key thing. They're not wearing a shirt. of ah Maybe, they're missing the key thing. It's a key key aspect of clothing. is say also in New York?
00:25:12
Speaker
they have a lime scooter well that's a good that's a good accessory the gilet the gilet the vest the gilet yeah so we're not ah yeah I've also got to say, i never knew how that word was pronounced until this moment. Yeah, yeah. I've said Gillet in any... Matt as fucking has fucking hazed me for mispronouncing French shit. Like, I said, Lowson. For example. Oh, yeah. not but we so all solve this I don't hear a French person anymore, though. So it's like I am my neighbors, my terrible neighbors were French and I don't live next to them anymore. And so that's a happy. That's that's why.
00:26:01
Speaker
Well, they would just always they were always having work done in their house at like seven o'clock in the morning on Saturday.
00:26:09
Speaker
Why would you do that? annoy your neighbors. Right, exactly. Why would you do this to me? But I digress. But so what I wear is...
00:26:22
Speaker
Well, someone, one one of my colleagues ended up today quite well because I wore a suit, a nice suit actually. It was an 80s bird's eye Ralph Lauren, ah quite a you know, wide shoulders, double pleated, classic Ralph, really nice. Normal later, wraps I find it really hard fitting into Ralph, but we'll come on to that, especially the Andrew Tripp Pacino's. But anyway, I wore that today. Lovely. And then then he was like, it's either that or a rugby shirt. Like, what like what is going on? So I think I kind of, I have like a uniform, i would say, which is all, it's quite a big uniform, but it's all similar sort of canon, would say. So like, for me, it's normally a dress shoe, but like a dress derby. So it could be a pair of para boots or it could be a pair of, you know,
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah, a pair of i what I'd get buried in, my Alden 990s, my, you know, big but not black, burgundy brown, cordovan, bluchers. How would you guys say that, by the way? Is it blucher or blucher? That's an American thing I don't get.
00:27:25
Speaker
I've always said blucher. think it's a I've said blucher. Yeah, I think there's a you. I'll say Blucher. Them. So I'd wear them and then high-raised trousers, pants, chinos, slacks, whatever suits everyone here. Garby high-rise, you know, I want it hugging.
00:27:44
Speaker
my waist as much as possible to hide the mess that I have beneath my clothing. um And then a then then this is where I mix it up. So it's either going to be, like I said, Oxford shirt, button down. i was thinking the last time I wore non-button down shirt, I can't, that's just like a work shirt, but I think actually with like a dress shirt, I don't remember the last time i actually didn't wear button down.
00:28:07
Speaker
Okay. Or like a rugby shirt. Or if I'm feeling really fancy, not fancy is a terrible word for it. If I'm feeling really sort of different, I'd wear like just a t-shirt and then a chalker over the top.
00:28:18
Speaker
And then depending on the year, what I'm chucking over, it could be anything from, you know, I've worn a Carhartt gilet in the office because, you know, I work behind a desk and I think that's the perfect place for a Carhartt gilet.
00:28:31
Speaker
um I've worn denim chalk coats, I've worn sport coats. and but yeah I try and mix it up. Whatever I feel comfortable in walking in in the morning or, you know. yeah Yeah, everything really. But I find, I don't know, I really have, i love, I wear everything I can. And I sort of have a problem when I like something, I buy so much of the same thing. And like and my my partner, bless her,
00:29:01
Speaker
i like For example, olive green chinos with high rise. are It's like crack to me. Oh, yeah. Because think with beige chinos or tan or whatever, they show stains quite easy.
00:29:15
Speaker
Right. Where they fake the olive chino or the navy chino or, or you know, even like a dark tan chino, you can get them a bit dirty. People shit on the blue, like the navy chino. I don't really understand because it's like,
00:29:30
Speaker
The problem with wearing chinos is you can't wipe your hands on them. Yeah. That's why you carry a bandana in your pocket. Pull it out. The bandana is incongruous with the chino. How is it incongruous? You just you fold it up and put it in your back pocket.
00:29:46
Speaker
I guess that would be kind of cool. um Would it be cool? Well, the point is, if you're wearing navy chinos, you can put whatever shit you want on them. You can put ketchup on them, and they it doesn't show. So, word to the wise.
00:30:01
Speaker
Have you guys... Sorry, go on. Sorry, Matt. you I was going to say, it's interesting to me that you're a button-down collar aficionado. Oh, always. and Unless I'm wearing a toweling shirt, we can't really get a button-down version of that. But, um oh yeah, i so let's talk about button-downs quickly.
00:30:20
Speaker
For me, top three button-downs, again, it's hard, and we'll come on to eBay because I have another, I have a weird kink, not kink, kink's a terrible word for it, but I have a thing for eBay, which we'll come on to. for me, I think, a lot of people think, you know, ah obviously I talk about Jake's,
00:30:35
Speaker
give a out to Jake's London. He makes the amazing button shirt if you want to buy brand new. But for the longest time, I thought Brooks Brothers, you know, traditional breezy fits, you know, made in US, buttoned down with the best ones. And then L.L. Bean, made in USA,
00:30:52
Speaker
button down college you have to go half sides up from the brooks brothers right oh my god the best fit and and i have like been completely i was ah i was transfixed that you know brooks brothers it's the coolest it's the best but for me personally the llb made in us s button down recommend it especially for those guys who are a little bit you know i'm a bit on the on the heavier side because the shoulders a bit wider as well and i just it's just it's awesome Yeah, I have a few of those. They're pretty hard to come by. Like, i have some single needle ones.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know where the... I don't know if the, like... ah Fuck, I lost my train of thought for a half second. Like the, the, the Ella Bean ones that you find mostly are like, you know, late eighties to nineties USA made ones. I have no idea where, like what factory made those, but, uh, the Brooks brothers factory that they had in North Carolina, I don't know how long it was.
00:31:54
Speaker
It was under the, you know, under the parent company, but like the, it closed a few years ago. That was the easily the best like button down shirt made in the States.
00:32:05
Speaker
Across the board. I think I'm wearing that right now. yeah but like in Any dress shirt that that came out of Garland was the name of it. Phenomenal. like just it's It's what a dress shirt or ah an Oxford collar button-down should be but want be. After you, Connor.
00:32:24
Speaker
I was just going to say... um
00:32:29
Speaker
Ah, yeah, I was gonna say i got like some boysenberry preserves on the cuff of this. And luckily, like it's on the inner cuff sick. Well, I would just be like, I can't wear this.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah, you This is the line that Matt and I are on all the time. But it's like, I don't want people to think I'm a slob more than they already do. And if you don't have to see like mood stains on my shit, then that's like a sure sign that I'm a slob.
00:32:59
Speaker
I think it's telling them it's not food stain. You don't have to admit to the food stain. like sorry but You're fighting or like you're writing your you know memoir in red ink and you're up late and then you saved a life. I'm writing my memoir in blood. and you just know a little of my cup It's crazy. I mean, I don't know how this ah this keeps happening.
00:33:20
Speaker
Just saving lives. The Oxford shirt stays on. does't matter And the thing I was going to say is, is your, is your love for the button down Oxford? Is it kind of like the out of context clothing?
00:33:37
Speaker
Because, you're in the UK and it's the American shirt. So like, I love button downs for three reasons.
00:33:48
Speaker
And I'll come, maybe one of them is yours. Might be a fourth reason when I finished a spiel. ah The first reason is my dad's, ah gave me a couple of... um I say he gave me. I stole a couple of my dad's button downs when I was in my teens. They were the Ralph Lauren Blake shirt, which I think is a beautiful, like a beautiful shirt, I think, the sort of way the way it fits.
00:34:11
Speaker
The second reason is I love the way... And again, i like to try maybe with more of a point collar, but I love the way a tie sits with a button down.
00:34:24
Speaker
So I think we know I love the collar roll. I love the fact that and when you don't have a button down, again, this might be my irrational fashion hill to die on. But I i hate, don't hate a strong word as well. But you know when you have like ah a non-button down and then you see like the gap between where your shirt buttons up and then the tie.
00:34:45
Speaker
Fuck, that's so annoying. so i So I think the button down keeps that all in place. And I think the third reason why love the button down as well I just think it goes well with everything, even like, so like, and the versatility of it. So like, it looks, again, this is a bit of like, I don't know.
00:35:07
Speaker
ALD sort of lookbook, Drake's lookbook vibe that I've tried to do and I don't pull it off, but you wear like a roll neck jumper, you pop the collar, you know, feel really sort of cool. I don't think that it's like, I feel like people think that it's like advanced styling and it's like, it's really just like a good style.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah. I completely agree until I saw, so ah saw um i so I saw myself in the background of a photo of someone took at work. That's trouble. That's trouble. You can't, you know, if you aren't prepared for the photo, it doesn't get out. I was like, wow, Mr. Potato has really let himself go. Because I had like a shaved head. I had like a shaved head as well. It's like, I'm not sure if you guys get this, but i think the reason why i love clothes so much is like, gives you that sort of confidence boost. But it's like, there's nothing worse when you're like, either a bad photo or you catch yourself in the mirror before you get in the shower or something. It's like, oh, Christ. Then you put on your but put on the stuff you love. But i saw that photo of me trying to pop that collar and I was like, fuck.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah, we've all been there. We've all been there. For sure. Untag. Get rid. But I don't know. One of the reasons that we wanted to have you on the show is because yeah like me, you are not a like model shaped person.
Body Types and Fashion Fit
00:36:25
Speaker
And like...
00:36:26
Speaker
and like one of the One of the strengths of this style of dressing is that it doesn't matter what your body type is.
00:36:37
Speaker
Correct. Like, you can just wear the stuff. Well, I mean, that's...
00:36:44
Speaker
It's utilitarian, right? Isn't that kind of the whole point of like tailored clothing, you know, like is, is working to the advantage of whatever the wearer has, whether they're, you know, ah your typical model is going to be like a 38 chest, 32 waist or something around there. But like the clothes are meant to ah accentuate your best features and hide your worst features, no matter what your shape is.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I think think what i like about being a bigger chap is the fact that, like and it goes for all big boys out there listening in, I think, obviously, summer months, at summer's tough.
00:37:21
Speaker
It's coming. It's going to be... chafing, it's going to be sweaty, it's going to be rough. But as soon as that autumn and winter comes, big boys are out to play. Those six packs are going away, jumpers are coming out, it's fair playing field again.
00:37:36
Speaker
Summer will just ride the wave, will chuck on a pair of baggies, Patagonias, chuck on a nice rugby shirt or a t-shirt. But that's what I like about being a bigger genitalist actor. I think... if you can i think anyone can dress well ish being of a slender build or the stereotypical model build but i think you know when someone's truly into clothes when they are a bit of a larger frame broader a bit more stout that's when you actually like yeah they know what they're doing they know what they're talking about they know what they like and i think that's a more important thing as well than knowing what you like and then just being comfortable in that as well and i think that's what i really sort of like but i think an interesting thing i have a question for you guys being over there
00:38:17
Speaker
in america do you find that like these brands and i mentioned a couple of them sort of j press maybe a couple i don't know if it was like o'connell's maybe or like you know buck mason all all these new or not new brands or new and heritage brands do you think the silhouettes i should talk about j press for a second because obviously the i saw the beef online with you know the latest lookbook or whatever oh jesus christ but ah i'll come on to the jacket so I bought a J-Press jacket recently and I love it. It's really nice. But one thing I had noticed, i got vintage J-Press as well, was do you think that the jackets they are making now across the brands, and I used them as an example, I don't want to get hated on, do you feel like they aren't making the jackets...
00:39:03
Speaker
for everyone like they once did. yeah I'm not sure I'm saying that right, but like, you know, if you look if you try on like a vintage Brooks or a vintage J Press jacket, the shoulders are naturally quite broad. The buttoning is quite low as well. Because like for me, I like it on a jacket when the middle button hits your belt.
00:39:20
Speaker
I'm not sure that might get quite niche here, but but on the later jackets, I'm finding that unless you get long, the buttoning is quite high up. The shoulders are quite tight. i don't know. i feel like the the brands now aren't, I mean they've lost touch of how a coat should fit and how a tailing unless you pay mega bucks for it, which again, I can't afford and not many people can. Right, right. How far away are these brands coming from like the everyday consumer? Right.
00:39:49
Speaker
Uh, okay. So I ha I have a pretty good take on this having worked with like a traditional menswear store for a few years and trying to do my part to make it i'm a little bit more modern because our, you know, our median customer age is probably like 60. Yeah.
00:40:06
Speaker
yeah ah All of these companies, Brooks Brothers, J Press, all the you know the old school. like O'Connell's is on ah just a totally different wavelength. and yeah I don't count them with this because they've always just done their own thing and it hasn't really changed over the years.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. Shout out to Buffalo. Shout out to Buffalo. Yeah. Shout out to my, my boy Glenn at juniors too, because O'Connell. go billary I don't know. I wouldn't go that far. I'm just kidding.
00:40:38
Speaker
So I think a lot of the J presses, the Brooks brothers, the, the Hickey Freemans of the world, um you know, and also some like classic brands like Canale and, and others.
00:40:55
Speaker
They lived in the fantasy world that was the 80s and 90s and the boom tamered clothing for so long. Like, the you know, the huge shit. ah Some of them in the 80s were chasing that, like, Giorgio Armani thing.
00:41:12
Speaker
they They kind of lost the plot, I guess is what I'm saying. And so they didn't change for so long that their customer base was getting older, buying less, dying off, etc.
00:41:25
Speaker
And they really didn't have anything to present to a younger generation that doesn't want to dress like their dad, but likes clothes, you know, and the the past I don't know, 15 or so years for these companies have been playing catch up and like trying to quote unquote innovate their offerings, but like kind of excluding their core customer and not being that cool or a lot of younger people that are into shit like ring jacket or 1911. And so like,
00:42:02
Speaker
Now we have this kind of weird amalgamation of like, yeah, there's still some classic fit shit, but we're we're going all in because like slimmer stuff is mainstream now. Do you feel like, I'm not sure if you guys, you hope you may have caught this, but I think in 2016, this is niche now, Complex did a documentary on like the popularity of Polo Ralph Lauren.
00:42:23
Speaker
And they said the reason why Polo Ralph Lauren did so well of like the black community was obviously partly because Ralph, where he wasn't making, you know, Ralph Lischwitz, selling ties, that sort of thing. But they never talked, Ralph never targeted the clothes to be for those communities targeted to be a certain type of person. Whereas Tommy Hilfiger, why that wasn't as they draw a comparison to Tommy Hilfiger where the reason why that wasn't as popular as Ralph Lauren was driven by the fact that they he did try to target those subcultures those people who he wants to wear the clothes do you feel like that's what's sort of happening here in a way because like I feel like you look at some certain look books and not look books over the way the suit especially that's how it looks how it fits how it fits on like for example you don't you very rarely see a rise from one of these shops now above 11 and a half inches from 38 waist, which is not a high rise, not a medium rise. For me, that's a low rise. Yeah, totally. I kind of feel like they're trying to hit a sweet spot that doesn't exist.
00:43:22
Speaker
Yes. In my mind. I think that's a that's a pretty good call. The one-size-fits-all approach, basically. Yeah. And also, we've talked about it on here before, but like you have to think that in you know when when, for example, the J.Crew Ludlow suit came out in 2008, that was kind of like for tailored clothing, that was kind of revolutionary. And like slim fit stuff was was like a little bit more niche. It wasn't you know it wasn't the broader spectrum of like mainstream clothing.
00:43:59
Speaker
and now it still is so like you go into a macy's or any department store and 99 of the stuff in the store is going to be like slim skinny and everyone that liked that in 2008 to 2000 you know 14 15 or whatever have moved on because we all realized like oh that shit fit terribly And like it was uncomfortable.
00:44:24
Speaker
But you know, I in my hometown, you still see people wearing the tightest jeans possible, because that's what's available. And so I think that's part of the the equation as well. Like, that is the mainstream, even if it's like, even if it's not, you know, totally their customer, that's kind of what they have to compete against.
00:44:45
Speaker
Yeah, I still find it quite hard going home and wearing clothes that I wear in London at home. Right. Especially like if I turn, you know, shout out to Tony, who's been on the podcast, but got podcast from, I got not a podcast, a beret from Tony, I bought beret from him.
00:45:01
Speaker
I remember once just chucking that on back in my small village in Wales and my dad was like what the fuck are you wearing? it' that like where where we're not We're not on the we're not in the Louvre now. But like, not even that, it's like, you know, i mean, going home and then putting on a sport coat.
00:45:16
Speaker
I quite like putting on a sport coat shirt and a tie, even when I'm not going anywhere, just popping out or going for a couple of drinks. You don't have to drive. That's what I quite like about the sort of like separates. I know, Connor, you do this a lot as well, but that sort of separates look with a tie it looks like...
00:45:31
Speaker
you know it's it's nice that this You can just go anywhere with it. That's what I quite like about it. But if I wear that at home, it's like, where are you going? Come on. away I was wearing a tie at this funeral in Pittsburgh this weekend, and like I wasn't the only person in a tie, but I was one of two people with a tie.
00:45:49
Speaker
and the other guy had on a floral shirt and a green tie. and o That was not my outfit. It's like, you know when you see like... ah zach or amelie on dad and then like i've got the other guys is the comedian they say oh i'm the only guy who's wearing vintage brooks brothers in this oh yeah i'm like i'm the only guy wearing this probably in like a 60 mile 70 mile radius right right like yeah let alone like but again it's all part and fun of it but i think you know i think that's what i find interesting about i think i do love the american
00:46:26
Speaker
style
Vintage Clothing and Personal Preferences
00:46:27
Speaker
though. And I do think there is a real romance to it, especially that's when I come back onto eBay. Like I buy so much stuff from eBay each month. And I think it's sort of three categories on eBay. I've never used Vinted and I've shared Vinted's quite good, but I'm i'm loyal eBay.
00:46:44
Speaker
ebay um But it's three categories. And then I think one, you find something that you'd put something niche on eBay. You type in like 17.5 USA shirt or something. brooks brothers shirt or something And then first step will be like a candy stripe.
00:46:59
Speaker
like, oh my God, something actually came back, which is always the first thing. Obviously, if something doesn't come back, you lessen the search each time to the point where says Brooks Brothers 17, hope for the fucking best. Right, right. The second thing is, you know, all right, goes one or two ways then.
00:47:18
Speaker
You either have someone who hasn't got a clue what they're selling, and they chuck it on there for like 30, 40 quid, and you're like, yes, fucking unreal, buy straight away. Or you have someone else who kind of knows what they're doing, but they put the old best offer on it.
00:47:34
Speaker
Now, if you lowball, and again, I'm sorry to whoever sells on eBay. I've tried selling eBay, and apologies. I've been selling eBay for over 20 years. watch you if you lowball the shit out of it, and then they accept it is just pure ecstasy.
00:47:49
Speaker
You've got love this absolute bargain. Honestly, that's like my like fix. And that's the thing that like that's what I love about buying stuff from eBay. do think it's that sweet spot of like Americana when it comes to... like you know, oh and I see Connor, you wear them a lot. I think Matt, you have some as well. Those old sport coats from niche brands as well. I've got one from Millers of Philadelphia, which I can't even Google.
00:48:12
Speaker
And like, you know, the three-roll tool, the low button stands, the shirts. But the only thing I'm struggling to wear and I need maybe even need to change my size is the polo Andrew pant. I just don't think they, I just don't think they, I think I don't suit pleats.
00:48:27
Speaker
I think I'm more of flat black. I don't know. I think it might be because of the my shape. I think a flat front. I think that the big, like for me, like I'm getting rid of all my pants that don't have pleats.
00:48:37
Speaker
Really? Yeah. Let's talk about, let's talk about that. Well, so I feel like it, um, like by design, weirdly, they're meant to make you look wider.
00:48:49
Speaker
yeah ah But I think that it does something... I feel the same way about glasses, right? It's like horizontal visual interest.
00:49:00
Speaker
yeah And so if you're not wearing your glasses, you look like a weird freak. But then you put them on and you're like, oh, okay, that's like a normal person. And I know why, right? It's like the there are many things that contribute to this phenomenon. But I think that the pleats like...
00:49:20
Speaker
help you out in a similar way. It's like, uh, is this person wearing an inner tube around their waist or do they have like weird folds on their pants? You can't be sure.
00:49:32
Speaker
so you're saying it's like, Oh, I kind of get you're saying. So it's all about distraction in a way. It's a distracting element a little bit And I do think too like, So I feel like a moron. feel like a moron because I feel like ah I used to see people like hiking up their pants as they were sitting down and thinking like, what a dork.
00:49:53
Speaker
yeah And now I'm like, oh my God. oh my God. They had the sacred knowledge. ah And so I feel that way with the pleats too. I mean, the pleats help you when you're sitting.
00:50:05
Speaker
Fuck, they do help you when they're sitting. But I just feel like when I wear a flap, I get not all flat front. And I think it's important to call out when you do have trousers pleated or not. I think people underestimate how important the rear rise is not just the front rise. Right, right.
00:50:19
Speaker
Because I've got a bit of an ass and hips. If I can't get the trousers over those ass and hips, It's just like, so the trousers fit like this. And that yeah that's the most uncomfortable trouser I think you can wear. You kind of still want the backrop the rear rise to be, well, to be bigger than the front rise, which you should have anyway. But I feel like with flat front, I don't know, I just feel like i feel like it sucks everything in, in a way.
00:50:43
Speaker
I don't know. It might just be a visual. It might be the similar sort of thing to you, but sort of flattens everything out. Not with jeans, though. I don't think... Jeans, I struggle with a bit. I love my jeans, but I think with like flat front chinos, especially from Greg, who who does all the other makes a lot of stuff that i buy. an amazing brand called he hey he Sports, or HE Sports. But like those flat front chinos, I feel like it really puts it together...
00:51:07
Speaker
nicely i think my problem with depleted then carno might be because i'm buying the wrong size maybe i should go up a size so i can sort of get that and there is something to that too like i basically buy the biggest shit that i can find which is like a 42b which i think is big nice way to remember
00:51:30
Speaker
No, for me. Yeah, exactly. Why are you doing this? Because they had the big fit stuff too. But this is a separate thing. It's it's just on the tag. yeah i mean I don't know. I find that they are awesome.
00:51:45
Speaker
I think that they are. Report back. I wear 38 in all my chinos. I might try a 40 in the Andrews.
00:51:57
Speaker
But again, it's just problems that I'm not sure if I want to have. What if I end up loving them? And then lo and behold, i'm telling what I'm having to tell my partner, FYI, there's eBay going to be coming a lot. And then there's like another a new addiction to add to the locker. I'm there trying to say, oh cut back on pleated.
00:52:14
Speaker
oh actually, I'm going to buy loads of pleated pants. So it's like, come on. This is actually a concerted effort. We talked about this before the show. We're trying to get all the pleated pants. And so we're having everyone sell them off because they're stupid. We don't like them, ah but we want to buy them. there's ah There's another part of the equation that I'm curious about. Jack, are are you a braces fan?
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah. i um i think i think it depends. think it's interesting, right? I think braces, to be honest, I think they look cool. Right. i think i think I think there's something about braces, like navy and burgundy braces,
00:52:52
Speaker
are just really cool with, like, a grey trouser, a flannel trouser, or like that. But I also call it the wacky ones that Albert Thurston does. Yeah, yeah, totally. I think you look at, like, sort sort of a like Mr. Conner on here, you know, what he does. you you can imagine him striped OCBD, pleated pants, braces, bow tie, nice sport coat. There's that sort of, like, madness to it, which I think is really cool. But I think also...
00:53:20
Speaker
Do I wear myself? do I wear them myself? i just quite like a belt. And it's like, i I'm not a fan of side adjusters either because I don't like the way, again, i get people find they're comfy, but do you know when you sit down with side adjusters, I don't like that the waist tab folds.
00:53:37
Speaker
Yeah. my i was good I was going to say that, ah in my opinion, like when I was in a ah shirt and tie and and, you know, suit or trousers every day, like trying braces for the first time with like a good rise was revolutionary for me.
00:53:53
Speaker
Really? And I think that you're talking about going a size up, ah in the you know so it's ah the waistband is floating a little bit more. but like But yeah, it's just it it made me a a convert away from a belt because i was I was all about the belt for a very long time. But like just having your waistband kind of float around you and like being in the same spot all the time is fucking awesome.
00:54:20
Speaker
so my dignity i i think that's I think what I think will look cool at that as well and what i again, I don't want to call it in case it doesn't, again, i don't really give a shit. But what I think is um what I'm actually looking to do and what I'm seeing a lot more is like really well-dressed bottom half and shirt. And then with like,
00:54:41
Speaker
Again, I'm not sure if this... but This probably isn't revolutionary at all, and I've just been an idiot. But you'll see someone of grey pants or slacks, loafers, dress shirt, tie, then they're just using a chalk coat or like a hunting jacket or a denim chalk coat in lieu of a sports coat. And i'm I think that is so cool. like I think that is such a cool way of... like such a cool way of like dressing and being and still being smart as well and think that's the important thing is like you don't look like a slob you still look quite put together but in like a way that's considered and not like stuffy because sport coat i love sport coats because i love having pockets and i think if i can stop that for a choke now and then yeah 100 the pockets are that unmatched yeah like and this is another hill that i will die on use your fucking pockets
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah, that hasn't killed me because I do actually use my pockets all the time, but I still just baby everything. that i don't no I mean, but like, you know, like going back to the store that I worked in, like all the, you know, all the dudes would carry like a card case and put it in their, you know, their interior jacket pocket. I like my fucking chain wallet, man. Like, and I like wearing a suit. So I'm going to wear the chain wallet with the suit.
00:56:02
Speaker
like i'm i'm a type one diabetic so i carry insulin around the mean needles glucose yeah so like i have so much shit on me at all the times and i always tell my partner like even if it's like even if it's like a really hot day i'll wear like a jacket of sub sort because i hate having stuff in my trousers pockets or short pockets or jean pocket destroys the line destroys the line just uncomfortable as well when you sit down.
00:56:27
Speaker
it's so, ah you try and get something, nothing worse, you sat down, you got something like your short or trouser pocket, you try and get it out. You have to do that awkward stand up again, it out the pocket, sit back down again. It's like, come on, put it in your jacket pocket, get sweaty. Don't worry about it. yeah That's what, that's my view on things. Like, I don't want to, you know, I don't mean anything by this, but like, you know, a jacket is like ah the masculine version of carrying a bag or a purse. And like, yeah you know, like I can fit all my shit in this chore jacket. Cool. i don't I don't have to carry a bag. Although I do enjoy carrying like a crossbody sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm i'm not a tote bag person unless like I just need extra space.
00:57:09
Speaker
But yeah, like, you know, they have two chest pockets, an interior pocket and two lower pockets. Fuck yeah. got this I'll bring more stuff out for the fun of it, even if I don't need it.
00:57:21
Speaker
Right. Put it in pockets, line them up, baby. Just get some more stuff. As much pointless stuff I can in my pocket. Two heads two pairs of headphones, why not? Right. I'll carry them. yeah Yeah. Because you can do it to excess. And you gotta yeah got you gotta to have your phone charger, you know, just in case. like Laptop?
00:57:38
Speaker
Who knows? but Those, are what are they, the the Filson Bird of Prey jackets. Oh, right, right. Full of corporate stuff in the back there.
00:57:50
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. That's what the game pocket's for. The modern game pocket is. Just the game of finance, game of corporate life. Right. Right. Okay. After a slight interruption, thank you, recording an all-remote podcast. ah Jack, you were talking about...
Cultural Impact and Fashion Differences
00:58:06
Speaker
We were talking about English tailoring versus Ivy style and how you know for a tux, you might go with them. And yeah, I think that's where it cut out. Yeah, i think I think it's hard though as well, right? So I think just because you know Ivy style versus British, right? doesn't necessarily mean it's the USA or British made as well.
00:58:28
Speaker
because if I had to go through like the perfect, i'll go egg two of that like I said, tuxedo, I'd go British all day. If I had the money, I'd loads of coin, I'd take myself down to the row, I'd get myself a lovely suit, lovely pair of shoes, yada, yada, yada.
00:58:41
Speaker
But I wouldn't necessarily get now again, support coach, doing it but if I had to build like an Ivy League inspired outfit reasonably, I actually don't think I would go American based tailors or clothing shops.
00:58:55
Speaker
Right. So if I had to build it from scratch, I think, so again, it's hard to go. If to go from top to bottom, I think if I go from bottom first, yeah, Alden, 990s, like the plain toes or a pair of Crockett and Jones. I love Crockett. and I think Crockett and Jones for me is like... Crockett is fantastic. It's like, I would actually say having got a few pairs of them and a few pairs of Aldens, again, this might be blasphemous on an American. so or actually, no, you're international. Fuck it. I think Crockett and Jones is better. I think Crockett and Jones is better than Alden. wow wow ah While I love American manufacturing and American made shit and I love Alden, their retail is so, and I know why it's so absurd at this point that like going Crockett or maybe Sergeant is not even a question for me.
00:59:45
Speaker
Well, you can get a pair of Crocket Cordovans for, I'm not sure what the USD would be in this. It's probably the same, no, my luck, but like £800. Yeah. So that's probably not far off actually what American is. but actually, you guys to pay tax on things.
00:59:57
Speaker
I don't mean more. Right. I'm not talking more than like Cordovan stuff, but like the basic calfskin, you know, an indie boot an indie boot, for example, is not a $700 quality boot. I'm sorry. No.
01:00:09
Speaker
But then, yeah, then in the chinos, like I said, there's really a lot. I might go, you know, American repro, like pair of Buzz Rickson's gelato, American fatigues, American style fatigue that made in Japan. if they just Japanese just make everything amazingly. Yes. and Only a handful of brands go to my big boy size, but i go for that.
01:00:30
Speaker
um Saying that belts is quite niche. I really like the coach made in USA one inch belt. I went through a rabbit hole quite a while ago. I think it came out early 2000s to the late 90s where coach did these men's belts. And pick up for about 40 pounds, 50 bucks.
01:00:46
Speaker
Shirts. If I choose any shirt, it'd be Jake. And I recommend if you guys can ever get hold of a Jake shirt. Like they are unbelievable. Oxford cloth shirt makes them in Soho now, I believe. Really cool guy. He's been doing it for donkey years and yeah, incredible shirts.
01:01:02
Speaker
Now jacket, I think, to be honest, the best jackets I have are all vintage. like I haven't um yet to find a brand new sport coat that has matched my vintage ones I've found on eBay.
01:01:14
Speaker
like that's so i know I've got an O'Connell sport coat. It has the Lucas on it as well. So it's quite an old one. 100% cashmere three roll two fits perfect. $150 paid for it on eBay. Nice. worth like now.
01:01:29
Speaker
and also also more like are more likely made by southway Yeah, and they and that's why, again, haven't got time now, but I was interested in the Made in Canada versus Made in USA debate. And I've had a few jackets made in Canada, a few made in USA, and they fit quite differently. yeah You know, they'll say the fit is the same. And then, yeah, Thai, I think, again, the best... Again, talk about my...
01:01:53
Speaker
a rational hill to die on. I really don't like it when a tie is put on and it stays like behind each other perfectly. it's like that.
01:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, same. I like it like that. This probably looks really weird on the call, but you know what mean? i sort of like that. So it's a bit of <unk> drift. I think that's, yeah, tie-wise, probably go for like ah like a British tie, unless I find a really niche Ralph one. But I find that some of the old Ralph ones are too wide, but I really like sort of the Drake's ties that you can get secondhand are awesome.
01:02:25
Speaker
And then, yeah, just some crappy baseball cap, and that would be my perfect uniform, I would say. Nice. nice what ah Are you a four-in-hand person? Am I a four-in-hand person? Yes. I think it's the best looking... was assuming, yeah. Do you go single or double?
01:02:41
Speaker
single because I haven't got the dexterity to do double and I'm not the patient cyber single I just it's funny though when you do do you know when you're you've got ready a pretty post shower and you put your tie on and then I'm not sure if ask like this but there's no sweat like a sweat when you can't get your tie right right you just get fucking get fucking soaking straight away and it's like it doesn't like you do it the first time and the fat blade is a lot shorter than the the long blade either the other way around you're like they're sighing like oh come on Right. And if you have a bigger neck, it's impossible to do.
01:03:16
Speaker
have to have another shower. I have to wash again. I feel like doing anything after a shower is the hottest activity that I do in a day. that Well, i don't shower every day, but you know, like...
01:03:29
Speaker
i it's just like I take a shower, i go out to have a cigarette a little bit after, and I'm sweating like a fucking... Just like sweating like a goddamn pig. and i'm like I just cleaned myself. What the fuck? What the fuck?
01:03:46
Speaker
But that's the thing. It's hard. That's why I like, you know, i think another thing, actually, I actually think another most irrational fashion hill you'll die on. i think shirts.
01:03:57
Speaker
I think t shirts for me is a minefield trying to find good t shirts. And I think I, for example, I've just recently bought you guys are like this being in America, i actually bought some Hanes t shirts. Okay. and then the New ones?
01:04:10
Speaker
i am Yeah, hopefully. They're from Amazon. From a shop called ah Amazon. i'm not sure if you've heard of it. They're quite big over here.
01:04:21
Speaker
But um I just find that finding good undershirts for me is really hard. and like they don't have to be I don't know why people spend like so much money on a couple of t-shirts when you could just get fired and white t-shirts look shit after like for me again might be different I might be washing them terribly but I think they just don't last long so I'd just rather just like hardly anything on t-shirts and then just get always get vintage t-shirts I'll just check under a shirt as well yeah yeah I am team no undershirt so yeah I don't wear an undershirt anymore either it's just sweat too much
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, well, you got to try to be more sedentary. take out um I'll take that. I'll write that down. i think i'll I'll take that to my physician as well and be like, look, I understand you want me to get these 10K steps a day, and but what you really need to understand is that I've got 70s Brooks Brothers shirts that I can't be sweating in. So you got it right you've got to take a bit of, you know, give me a bit of room here.
01:05:23
Speaker
ah Okay, so I think i wanted to ask this question. maybe Maybe it was both of us. But ah we got to ask about the Oasis reunions as someone that lives in the UK.
01:05:36
Speaker
Yeah. Was that a huge fucking deal for like you or people you knew? Or was it just kind of like... Is you know is our perception of it blown out of proportion? Because had a friend that went to, I think... Fuck.
01:05:52
Speaker
He went to like 15 of their shows. the Fuck. 15 is mad. But I think... I think I don't think it was blown out proportion. I think it was just crazy. Like I had one of my best friends, he went and he said it's like the best concert he's been to. Right. I think when you start seeing like clips of like cigarettes and alcohol that opens up the entire gig.
01:06:17
Speaker
Oh, that's a great opener. That's how they started their set as well. But i am I worked in Manchester and lived in Manchester for a couple of years.
01:06:28
Speaker
And I think you don't really truly appreciate how important, obviously, Oasis, but music in general is there. Obviously, music's huge in the UK, but i think two particular cities, like you have Liverpool and you have Manchester, and I'm probably butchering the statistics, but I think Manchester actually has the most like produced bands per like people or per mile or whatever it is. Oh,
01:06:49
Speaker
like It's just a crazy thing. I think, obviously, seeing their... holds that Oasis had on the... They had a hold on the world, didn't they? I think. Right. Yeah, totally. Totally. It was nuts here. Like, it was wild. Like, everyone went crazy. The amount people wearing, like, parkas, you know, Adidas, fucking Sambas.
01:07:09
Speaker
It was just wild. It would be August and someone's wearing, like, a fishtail parka. but people aren't even into clothes that's the like i'm not sure if you know like liam gallagher has a brand called pretty green i think he has that i think i did not know then one i have a liam gallagher no one of them has this brand called pretty green makes these sort clothes and like literally be like middle of like summer and people are decked out in parkas jeans bucket hats yeah yeah liam is the clothes horse i believe Yeah, he's got some mad stuff. Yeah, Noel may be like an undercover clothes horse, but I mean, he always looks cool. so
01:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think Liam's got like just... I think Liam wears like really... I'm not sure if someone styles him or he actually likes this sort of stuff, but obviously he's massive fan of like Stone Island and those sort of things. Yeah, but yeah, totally. He did a really cool smock with Nigel Caborn.
01:08:04
Speaker
i yeah go and I think Nigel Cable and think that's sort of a sign that like, yeah, he does like his stuff because Nigel Cable is a sick brand. Yeah. But like yeah you wouldn't think not the everyday Joe would know that he's doing this. I think that side of thing is pretty cool.
01:08:18
Speaker
Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. It's a, I know he's worn engineer garments and like some other, you know, some other really cool and like very niche brands over the years.
01:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think I have one question for you guys, actually, then we can happily say goodbye. So, how would i say have you guys heard the ah the saying, fuck boy?
01:08:45
Speaker
Yes. How would you describe the American fuck boy and how would you draw comparisons to the UK fuck boy? Let's discuss.
01:08:58
Speaker
ah
01:09:03
Speaker
it tar It turns a close, I'm saying now. Oh, it turns a close? turns a close, yes. I'm not going to get to the ends and outs of fuckboyism. Right, right. Well, I was trying to describe, because I i know what a fuckboy is, but if I had to put it into words, I don't know if I could.
01:09:20
Speaker
You know, it's just kind of a person you see and you're like, oh, this this person sucks. ah it In the UK, it's skin-tight jeans, elongated t-shirt that's way too tight, and a fuck-off massive pair of trainers. Could be like Blinciaga, all the way up to the top end of Blinciaga, sort of the awful trainers, all the way down to like a pair of Air Force Ones that three sizes too big.
01:09:42
Speaker
I don't think it's that dissimilar, honestly. Really? um in It depends on the age range, I think. So the kind of like the kind of classic, let's call them classic fuck boys. The ones that are of a certain age, you know, they're, they're like millennials, uh, still, yeah but they, but they've been, they've been rocking this shit since like 2014. Those haven't changed at all.
01:10:11
Speaker
The younger ones, uh, then like, I guess, Gen Z fuck boys, uh, I think that they're way more into like late 90s, early Y2K shit.
01:10:26
Speaker
yeah But in a in a like hot topic way, if that makes sense. Yeah, it's a great take. Which is not a ah statement I would ever think I would make. You made it. The the the like almost bondage pant style, new metal dress of the era, yeah like how how the corn dudes were dressing, that that I think is the younger fuckboy.
01:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually that's actually a great take. Yeah, I see a lot, I see a, you know, a wide variety of people by doing markets and things, which is, from a sociological standpoint, which I love, is fantastic.
01:11:03
Speaker
But, a you know, a lot of this comes from observation. Fuck, that's class. Connor, do you have a fuckboy? so I kind of got, I kind of got down in the weeds with it, like, I think that's a good answer. Cause when I think of it, like I think of it as the people who I dislike the most, who I don't want to get into, right? Like I don't want to get into the like MAGA shit. I'll leave with this. Like, like I said, I was in Pittsburgh this weekend and we stopped at a rest stop and i knew something was amiss because I could see as I walked in, there was a line across the door.
01:11:48
Speaker
coming from men's room, which I can't even remember seeing in my life, a line at a men's room. texted me about this. texted Matt about this. so once get into the I see they're all 13 or 14 and many them have MAGA gear on.
01:12:02
Speaker
i see they're all thirteen or fourteen and many of them have maga gear o And it's just like this kid is wearing a red bucket hat that says MAGA on it. Like ah this girl is wearing a shirt that has Trump on it says daddy's home.
01:12:25
Speaker
So like that. That's what I Let me just... So they're not making America great again. is that not right? is that not right? Oh, no. and it's It's the greatest movie we've ever been. sending mine four That's thought.
01:12:41
Speaker
Just constantly sending money to bomb brown people. It's it's fantastic. it's just it' just great Granted, Biden was also sending money to brown to bomb brown people and Obama before him and...
01:12:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's a it's a U.S. it's a us s pastime. Yeah, yeah, it's sick. But the yeah the clothes are still there, though. That's the thing. Yeah. You have to rock on. Whoa! What is happened? Light show.
01:13:09
Speaker
Wow. wow We could have an entire episode, and maybe we should, about just, like, how... impossible it would be to bring American manufacturing back at the level that it once was, even, you know, even in the 80s at this point. Yeah, agreed.
01:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, it just, it fucking sucks as as people that appreciate, you know, Well, there's so many small shops, isn't it? Like the only brand I can think, on not including J Press into this, but the only brand I know that does OCBDs like from scratch to the level probably it was done before is probably Mercer.
01:13:49
Speaker
Right. And they're such a small outfit now. They probably couldn't even do it on the level. But again, they don't need to do on the level. But That's probably a tiny shop, right? And it's expensive as well. It's expensive. um you know i think part of that is like people being conditioned to want the lowest price possible for everything.
01:14:07
Speaker
But that also ties in with like people not being paid enough to actually live. So it's a yeah it's ah it's a rabbit hole that I've gone down many, many times. Buy vintage.
01:14:20
Speaker
Buy vintage. Buy secondhand. It doesn't even have to be
Closing Remarks and Future Plans
01:14:26
Speaker
vintage. but like just you know You don't need to always have to buy and brand new shit.
01:14:33
Speaker
Yes. Hell yeah. he Anyway, Jack, dude, this has been awesome. we' We'll definitely have you, you know, back here and there and continue our really fun. Also, I got to say, I liked being asked questions because it all I was going to ask more, but I don't want to overstep my mark. I got a look a long list, but I'll save it for another time.
01:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Part two. I mean, we did we we did have ah John interview us. So it might be might be a fun one to get another you know another one of those.
01:15:08
Speaker
I think it's time to go get some more of my country people on here as well. I can give you some, think, yeah. Oh, hell yeah. a guy called Josh Grury. I'm not sure if you follow him, but Cuff No Break. He is like a mecca of knowledge when it comes to this stuff. Like, he's a cool guy.
01:15:23
Speaker
Actually, DJed a little bit as well. Like, I have one of records he made, which is like, really cool cool guy. but Oh, that's sick. Yeah. get Get some more of the Brits on. Yeah. well all We're coming back, baby.
01:15:36
Speaker
ah We'll get some British comrades on. um But ah yeah, Jack, tell everybody where they can follow you. And you know welcome to shout out anything you you would like to.
01:15:47
Speaker
Shout Apocalypse Duds, I think. Just shout the guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, dude. Thank you. yeahp and then Yeah. Yeah, buy vintage, buy secondhand.
01:15:59
Speaker
Shout to the big boys out there as well. someone handle Jack Lewis Whittaker. but but don't want to give it too much of a shout out. you know You're allowed. that's the your that's the shot one and Shout to Jack Lewis Whittaker. That's me. Whoever that is where guy is.
01:16:15
Speaker
The Welshman living in Nottingham Wales. China's...
01:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, Cymru and Byth. I can't speak the language, but that means something. Let's go with Wales. We love Wales. Up the dragon. Up the dragon. Up the the Welsh.
01:16:32
Speaker
Take care, guys. All right, everyone. Thank you for listening. Thank you. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower. You can find us at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram, Apocalypse Studs at gmail.com. And we're also on YouTube, which I never mention. We have an Apocalypse Studs channel on there. So ah wherever you listen, thank you. And we will see you next Wednesday.
01:17:01
Speaker
Bye, guys. Adios. audios