Transcript
Conor Fowler: Good afternoon, welcome to Apocalypse Duds. We have a super duper exciting guest in the studio this week, long in the works. We have David Lane of at Big Fitz.
Conor Fowler: Today is an auspicious day otherwise because Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney has left this mortal coil. Good riddance. ah
David: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah. This is going to be a delayed, you know, because our episodes usually come out like three or four weeks after, but we have to celebrate it.
Conor Fowler: We would be remiss to not say something.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: aye
Conor Fowler: mean,
matt: As someone responded to our story that Connor shared, ah they said something that was like, you guys can't walk the line. And I was like, fucking never. Like, we're not we're not we're not sticking in a lane here to...
David: Nope. That's a dirt nap that came exactly when we needed
matt: yeah I love the fact that you use dirt nap as, as the nomenclature there, but yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, the last thing that I'll say so that we have this on the record, people don't know that George W. Bush had nicknames for everyone in his cabinet and outside of his cabinet. His nickname for Dick Cheney was Turd Blossom.
Conor Fowler: And I think that that says it all.
David: That's apt.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, because even the people who loved him and ah worked with him hated him.
David: Awesome.
Conor Fowler: So anyway, ah for those...
matt: Surely a sign of a good person if everyone around you fucking hates your guts. You know.
David: Oh.
Conor Fowler: or if your best friend is nicknaming you Expletive.
matt: Right, right.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I digress.
David: Well, he just knew he was going to do all the dirty shit for him. So, you know.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Oh yeah.
David: It'd make him look like a rose and, you know.
Conor Fowler: Well, the point of the nickname is that ah he's resilient because the turd Blossom is a flower literally from a turd of a cow pie.
David: Oh, really?
David: Oh, okay. Okay.
matt: Oh. Oh.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. So it is kind of an interior nickname.
David: Oh, I wonder if somebody, I wonder if somebody shot him if he'd be so resilient.
Conor Fowler: um there's the There's the real meat question.
matt: Oh.
Conor Fowler: I mean, he was mostly made of metal.
David: Yeah, and hate, but you know.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Basically the same thing sometimes.
David: So I want to just jump in real quick because I'm just, I'm talking kind of quiet and I'm just looking at the bars and your bars are all really tall and mine are really short. So I just wanted to throw that in there. I just want to make sure you're getting my voice okay.
David: And um if you want me to get a little closer, okay, okay.
matt: Yeah, it sounds great.
Conor Fowler: And will all of the levels will equal will be equalized when we produce it anyway.
David: Oh, okay, cool.
Conor Fowler: Because I'm usually more quiet than that. I mean, it's just,
matt: Yeah, I have a very loud voice. so
Conor Fowler: yeah. So for those of you who don't know, who is Big Fitz how did it start?
David: So I just all the way back to middle school, I just loved clothes. But i'll i'll I'll save your audience the middle school rendition.
Conor Fowler: I think you should get into it.
matt: No, yeah, I want to hear this.
Conor Fowler: If you're comfortable, you should get into it.
David: No, no. Honestly, i was just a chubby kid.
Conor Fowler: what were you wearing in middle school?
David: ah i i so I literally would beg my mom to buy me polo shirts.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: Um, not like the, an actual polo shirt with the two buttons and collar, uh, and short sleeves with, but their flannels and they're just their button downs.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: And the way I kind of fell for it was when you walk through and you're just kind of bored because your mom's shopping or whatever, I would always touch the shirt sleeves when I walked by.
David: And as a classic department store had, uh, a great polo sort of section. And I would walk by and I would touch the sleeves and And I'm like, something's different about this cloth. Like something's feels softer, smoother, tighter, better, cleaner.
David: And I just, I just never left the back of my mind. And I like would beg, cause obviously they were expensive. i would beg my mom, I would get one. And in my mind, I was thinking like, oh, well, if I've got a cool shirt, surely middle school kids won't make fun of me cause I'm chubby.
David: Right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
matt: Right, yeah.
David: Um, But that's really kind of how the obsession started.
Conor Fowler: Alas.
David: As far as big fits, i was I was kind of doing this stuff anyway. And I was i was taking pictures of myself for essentially the the purpose of looking at how clothes fit.
David: um I find when I look in a mirror, I get half the story, but not the full picture.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: So I just started setting up my camera in my bedroom and and just shooting front backside. And then I'm not, Oh, this shirt pulls in the back because it's a little too tight.
David: Or I don't like how the front is a little shorter than the back on this shirt.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: So I could actually see the whole story. And, um and I just started cataloging those images. And I was buddies with Derek guy just through style forum for years.
David: And um we had traded a bunch of messages through email and,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: He had got me a ah length of cloth ah that I think he developed. And it just, you know, we just kind of started ah an online relationship. And he's like, hey, man, do you mind if I do an interview for you for real people on Put This On, which is I'm sure you're familiar and your audience is probably familiar with Put This On, which is Jesse Thorne's website about menswear and just dressing well and he did that interview. He sent me a bunch of questions.
David: It came out great. I got a bunch of feedback from that. And then, you know, maybe six months or a year later, he's like, hey this is right at the peak of him taking off on Twitter.
David: And he's like, Hey man, I'm just, I was thinking about doing a Twitter post on how to dress. I get a lot of questions from bigger guys. Like, how do I, how do I get dressed? And he posted that. And I think it got like eight and a half million views.
David: Like it was like a, a direct,
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Oh yeah, i I definitely saw it.
David: Yeah. I mean, it was a direct switch and i was getting so much in my inbox in my company's Twitter page that I was like, ah, and same thing with my Instagram. i was like, you know, maybe i should just create another profile and and just so i can field the questions and keep my company separate from, you know, what I'm what I'm doing.
David: you know, with clothing. And it just kind of took off from there. And I, you know, within a month I had interviewed with a couple of notable magazines and, um, I was like, they would call and be like, I'd be like, are you sure you want to talk to me?
David: You know, like, like this guy, they're like, no, no, we, we need this.
Conor Fowler: We're so confused.
David: If you don't mind, can you send us some pictures that, yeah. So it was, uh, um As a fat kid from upstate New York, I'm like, how the fuck am I in GQ?
matt: that Dude, that's the dream, though.
David: Like, what is what is happening? Yeah, oh, no, it's crap.
matt: Like, it's so sick.
David: Yeah, no, I love it. I love it.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: And I... and i
matt: I know you're not downplaying it, but, you know, like, this is, i have a huge smile on my face, because this is like, ah you know, for us clothing nerds, like, this is the ultimate kind of organic ascendance, which is gnarly.
David: Yeah. Yeah. was fun.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's amazing. Because I like, I don't know, as a bigger individual, have always, there's always like, kind of in the wings advice.
Conor Fowler: But there's never really anything that is like,
matt: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: that's well thought out. I mean, so it's good. that and it's good and obvious that you've really put a lot of time and thought into arriving at the positions you do.
David: Thank you. And and honestly, that that happened naturally. um If you're a bigger guy and and you've tried to shop for clothes and you want something cool and you've either made the mistake of going to a big and tall store,
David: like DXL and just seeing the worst clothes ever made. Like, and I'm not saying that they're not trying, like I all credit because they're still in business and they're doing people a service and I respect that.
matt: Yeah.
David: um But none of that shit was cool.
Conor Fowler: yeah
David: Like none of it.
Conor Fowler: But why is it all bad? That's my question, right? like So we know, for the most part, this kind of trickles down to menswear broadly. Like, at Target, which is a shitty place that is not really on the menu anymore.
David: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: But they make tons and tons and tons of stuff for women. They make this much stuff for men. And that is the business model. That is the point. Because, like, they figure, basically, that men don't care about what they look like.
David: Yeah. Or that maybe women might shop for them or ah they're not just going to put the same level of an... And again, I don't know this. um This is just my speculation, but um they're just not going to invest that kind of time and energy and money in a ah population that there isn't going to spend as much as maybe the you know the standard straight sizes.
David: um But I...
Conor Fowler: but aren't there a majority of overweight people in America? It just doesn't add up to me.
David: that
Conor Fowler: Like I have heard that they don't wanna make larger looms in places like China where the clothing is made. ah That sort of stands to reason to me, but it's still not satisfying.
David: Sure.
David: No, no, it's, that you know, I don't know very much about the technical aspects of clothing and and and manufacturing and and and that stuff.
David: But if you scroll the Big and Tall website, even on Ralph Lauren, which is a company I love and I love their clothes, there are maybe four pieces out of 300 that don't have the logo on it.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Right.
David: Right. and And if you scroll through ah standard, you know, a blue label Ralph Lauren, I'd say 50 70 percent don't have a label on it. So there's something there's a disconnect somewhere with whoever's in charge of designing it and the people that.
David: the people putting it out there. Like, I just, I don't know what guy who is a bigger guy wants a massive polo on their shirt, just drawing all the attention to the widest part of their body.
David: Like it just, it just doesn't add up. It's not a, it's, I mean obviously it's working.
Conor Fowler: Nonsense.
David: They're selling clothes. They're one of the most successful clothing brands in history. um But I just, I can't make sense of that myself.
Conor Fowler: It would just seem to me that like they could do it as well as the rest of their stuff and they would just make more money.
David: Stands to reason. don't know.
matt: Yeah. Another point in this, i worked for you know a super old school menswear store years ago, and like, There are definitely bigger sizes to be had, but to your point, they're not the cool shit. They're canali and, like, you know, these, like, Hickey Freeman's traditional cuts that are are just mediocre at best if you're, like, actually into the clothing, but...
matt: You know, for a guy working in an office, it it works for him. Because he doesn't give a shit. Like, as long as he thinks it looks, you know, passable, it's like, all right.
David: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, here's a here's a charcoal suit that I can wear five days a week that fits terribly.
David: Yeah, it checks a box.
matt: Yeah.
David: It sort of fits. They don't look out of place. um And here you go.
matt: Right.
David: and And that's it's unfortunate. um But there are little pockets. You know, O'Connell's is a place that I've been going to for for decades, almost almost 20 years at this point.
matt: Oh, yeah.
matt: Right.
David: And they have one of the best. better selections of menswear, obviously traditional style tweeds and and and such, but um just a massive selection that, um yeah, of good and good quality too.
matt: Yes. Of cool stuff. And, like, they know how to make things fit. And so... Yeah, 100%.
David: Like it's not, yeah. i mean, you're going to pay for it, but yeah but that's kind of part of the game.
matt: Yeah, you do. You do.
Conor Fowler: It's less than expected, I think.
David: It it it is
matt: Yeah, my my buddy Glenn got his start working for O'Connell's and now he does juniors out of Philadelphia.
David: Yeah.
matt: So, yeah, I figured.
David: Oh, no, I know Glenn. <unk>
matt: I figured.
David: I've had a beer with Glenn. um right so I've said this for years, but anytime I make a ah you know a relationship with a clothing store, I will roll in with a six pack at some point.
matt: Oh, hell yeah. 100%.
David: slide it under the counter and be like, look, whatever, you know, just happy holidays, appreciate all the help. um And I'd say that goes a long way when you need a size or, you know, you want to save something that you want to get there and try in person.
matt: hundred percent
David: um And the boys at O'Connell's will set it on the stairs, on the stairs in the back and be like, that's for Dave. And, you know, a couple of months might go by before I get there and it's still there. So that it's, ah you know,
matt: Yeah.
David: little secret sauce, if you will.
matt: ah
Conor Fowler: It's like buy like buying the kitchen ah round.
matt: ah You know, I'll say from the other side of the counter as a, you know, as a retail worker, the cool people like that are head and shoulders, like ahead of the line, you know, like I would have done anything for anybody that did that shit.
David: Yeah.
David: Yeah. Yeah. ah You got to take care of people. And I do the same with...
matt: Yeah, totally.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's respect.
matt: Totally.
David: With my local tailor, like um like I've gone to one of two alter alterations tailors and in the city. And, you know, it's nothing big, but, you know, around the holidays, I'll just drop an extra 20 as a tip.
David: Or, um you know, if I know they like, you know, certain chocolates from a place, I'll stop and get them, just leave them for the staff or whatever. It's just something as a gesture of like, hey,
David: I know you're trying your best. I appreciate it. And I just want to make sure you know that I care.
matt: Yeah, 100%.
Conor Fowler: very important lesson.
David: Yeah.
matt: so So, can be.
David: And inexpensive too. And the grand scheme of things, inexpensive.
Conor Fowler: Right, right, right.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah.
matt: But, you know, like, the service, if you if you appreciate it and you have a rapport and a relationship, like, that's the kind of shit that, you know, helps out so much more than just, like, going in and trying to get a pair pants hemmed and being a dick about it.
David: Exactly. Exactly.
matt: So David, ah pun intended, and we don't really apologize for it, but what was your first quote unquote big fit moment? Like when did you kind of realize that, you know, clothing could be ah something that you you were generally like invested in and style could be more than clothes?
David: So there's kind of, two there's two parts and I'll, I'll go with the, the suiting aspect first. um The first time i was kind of weird. So in college, I lost a bunch of weight. When most people go to college, gain some weight. I went the opposite way.
David: So all through college, i didn't give a shit about clothes. I had like abs. I was just having a ball. i was having a good time.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: But when I got out of college and started working, i got kind of tired of the running and lifting and all that stuff. And I got into just having fun still.
David: And as a result, gained some weight. And i was like, oh I got to reinvent how I do this. And my very first trip to O'Connell's was ah kind of an aha moment. So I had been looking at and reading Put This On, J Press, all these places.
David: And i had seen O'Connell's, but for some reason, it just didn't click that they were in Buffalo. And I'm an hour drive away. So I'm looking at these clothes, I'm adding them to my cart, um like, you know, maybe this is what I want, or maybe not. And I i kept kind of going through the the motions of, and then I, for whatever reason, scrolled the bottom the slide, saw that they're in Buffalo, drove to Buffalo, and I think I spent like 1200 bucks that first day.
David: which is like all the money I had. And we're talking almost 20 years ago. And i just was so excited that they had a 50 regular and a 50 short.
David: And like, I don't, I have one piece left from that initial purchase. The rest of them, you know, I've kind of just, maybe the style doesn't work anymore or I've donated or sold it.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: But, um, I just remember being like, it's possible. Like this is possible. This place represents somebody who cares and has good shit and I can get my size and I can get fitted properly. And it just it just made my life almost obsessive from that point of like, okay, if they can do it, somebody else has gotta be doing it.
David: And if we fast forward, there's not a lot. But that population has also grown in the last 10 years. There are more and more companies starting to do good quality, bigger sizes.
David: So.
Conor Fowler: I was like, I'm like a 46 and I'm like five, seven.
matt: man
Conor Fowler: So it's like preposterous sizing.
David: Okay.
Conor Fowler: I guess I have a 46 inch chest and a 46 inch waist.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So it's, uh, hard going to find clothes. So I can only imagine a 50, uh, and anything in and around the neighborhood is like, um, it goes for the other side of the scale as well. Like I used to,
Conor Fowler: know this guy Paul William he was like a 34 and he could never find any clothes like even at the thrift store he could never find anything so it's just kind of like the one size fits all approach does not work
David: No, no. And ah that's the other thing is like you, once you do find ah something that truly fits and that's kind of the second part of this. So O'Connell's had great stuff, good sizes. I was super happy, but I was like, I want this.
David: I don't want, you know, a hook vent in the back. I want double vents. I want patch pockets. Like I wanted something specific for a spore coat.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: And I had tried, ah in Buffalo, a local, not O'Connell's, but a local like Italian men's shop. And they did a ah nice job with a ah made to measure piece.
David: But on the like fifth time I wore it, I was so it was so restrictive that I just kind of did a Tommy boy and I shredded the lining.
David: I thought I ripped the coat because it it literally shredded like it would look like somebody took claws and ripped through it.
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: oh Jesus Yeah
David: um And i I like, but I turned, I took it off.
Conor Fowler: Wow. Yeah.
David: i was like, all right, I ruined the coat is what it is. But I looked and the cloth was fine. It was just the lining. So I took it to my alterations tailor and they patched in some extra pieces of lining.
David: I wore that thing for the next three or four years. It was great. And then there was ah another local place, Adrian Jewels, who does a great job.
Conor Fowler: no
David: um there They're kind of a, ah I would say, glorified made to measure. they're They're not a bespoke. They work off a block pattern.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: um But they do fit you with a tailor, which is nice. um But a similar thing happened, like they wanted a nice clean back, a nice clean front, so was a little restrictive. um But on the second coat from them, i you know, I got a little more room, I picked a softer cloth, and that started to, that started to grow. But then i i went to New York and I met Frank Petringaro from Ercole.
David: And his father at the time, who is still alive now, as far as I know, um was the one who measured me and he was still doing all the cutting. So he measured and cut me a suit.
David: And the very first time I went in for a fitting and I put it on, there was just this moment of like, and it's hard to explain if you've never worn structured clothing.
David: But when structured clothing is cut, too close or too tight or incorrectly for your body and shape, there are points of restriction. So like if you go to shake hands, something grabs here and you're like, why why is that? Or the back is too small across the shoulder blade. So you go to pull and it stops your arms from going forward.
David: Or you lift your arm and the whole coat lifts up.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: i I just immediately started doing like a freakishly weird overhand. Like I was doing a freestyle swim in the showroom.
David: I'm like, this is unbelievable.
Conor Fowler: Right.
David: Like this is unbelievable that this fits me the way it does. I still have the coat. I still have the suit. I still wear it. It's fantastic. It's held up beautifully. and And that was 2013 14.
matt: Hell yes.
David: So a little over a decade now. um And that was the bigger aha moment. It's like, okay, not only is this possible, but now I'm on like this mission and I'm a teacher. So I'm like, I have no money.
David: I have no business buying this, but you know, I don't have many other vices other than the occasional scotch and cigar, but you know, I keep that to a minimum.
David: And like, yeah, this is it.
Conor Fowler: This is your thing. I mean, this is your thing and clothing is like a necessity.
David: I, I love it. I absolutely love it. So thus developed a relationship with Frank and, you know, he he super guy, still cuts, does a great job. I just got and I'll be putting on it so as soon as the weather cools down here.
David: um A double breasted flannel ah blazer, brass buttons.
Conor Fowler: nice
David: I got Buffalo coin buttons. there it's It's a cool coat. I like it. I'm excited.
matt: Oh, hell yeah. So overall, how would you define your style if you had to put a name on it?
David: I kind of land in the work wear and or like traditional sportswear. So not like, you know, tech fabrics or anything, but like a sport coat and trousers, um,
David: I think probably somewhere between English and Italian. um I like to be comfortable, but I also like ah like a nice, robust fabric that's not going to snag or pull.
David: I don't care if it gets wrinkly, so I don't mind a linen.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: I like something that when people see it, they're like, oh yeah, that's that guy owns that thing.
matt: Hell yeah.
David: And it's a subtle difference. Like, you know, I see this with hats like Ethan Newton from Bricelands wears a fedora and a Western like a felted Western like ah most people in the US wear a ball cap.
David: Like he just pulls it. It just never looks out of place. And, you know, in an interview, it's like, oh, well, you know, human heads haven't changed that much in 200 years. Like it's it looked great then.
matt: Right.
David: it's goingnna It's going to continue to look great now. But I think if you don't own it, like as the person wearing it, it it can feel a little costumey. So um when it comes to those things, which I do, I want to wear those oddball things sometimes.
David: I just try to wear them around the house a little bit. I try to, you know, go on short trips to the grocery store and back where I'm like, all right, I got it in in.
Conor Fowler: That's good advice.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: go to a place where no one will remember you.
David: Yeah, no, surprisingly, no one has ever thrown a rotten tomato at me. I haven't been shot or stabbed. Like it's just it's usually, if not always, in your own head.
matt: Yeah, 100%.
David: Um, and I just, so for me, it's, I like looking like I've owned that thing forever.
matt: Right. Which should be the goal.
David: So yeah, yeah, of course.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: If you're buying good quality stuff, you know, it is going not only is it going to get better, but it's going to break into you and become more, more part of you as you, as you exist in the world.
matt: hundred percent
Conor Fowler: And confidence is like imbued in those sort of items, you know. i think like when you put on something that you don't even necessarily have to have been the wearer, right? Like you could be the wearer at the present.
Conor Fowler: And i think that stuff that is worn just ah communicates like gravitas or something.
David: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. I mean, this this makes me think of, I think it was Luciano Barbera, and I've mentioned this probably multiple times, but like there's a famous ah you know interview excerpt from him where he was like, I always tell my clients to to take their new suit home and sleep in it the first night.
David: i
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: And it's like, that's that sets you up to like... ah To really own that thing. Because like, oh, if I can sleep in this, I can i can wear this.
matt: No problem.
David: yeah i think there's a second layer to that too it's also saying to you don't treat it so preciously like if you're so worried about like oh what if i get a stain what if i get you know then you're going to be stiff and awkward wearing it where if you oh well i already slept in it so throw it on shake it out let's go
matt: Yep. Yep.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: Which I think, which is honestly why I think people look so great in jeans is because they're not concerned about it.
matt: Totally.
David: They're just like, ah, the jeans put them on, no big deal.
matt: Yeah, i I treat my jeans and my nicer tailored shit or military-ish whatever the same way.
David: Yeah.
matt: Like, I wear, you know, I've always been this way. Like, I just... And I think the point is to wear the clothes.
David: yeah Absolutely. And also to piggyback on that, learn how to repair them.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: yeah
David: Like if you're trying to save money, there's nothing better than thrifting. And if you're thrifting, you're going to find something that's cool that maybe has a stain or a hole. Learn how to get the stain out. Learn how to patch the hole. Learn how to replace the buttons.
David: Learn how to maybe not hem sleeves or shorten, but you could take it even further and and learn how to do those things. I think you can you can develop a sense of ownership by repairing and working through some of those things that come up with clothing, too.
matt: Totally.
Conor Fowler: Cheer.
matt: Totally. I'm great at cleaning and I have friends that can sew. ah Sewing in my mind just don't connect in any way, shape or form. But yeah, that's like, you know, that's that's how you you keep the things that you love going.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So do you think that fashion or um clothing has a responsibility to respond or interact with the state of the world? Or is escapism the sort of flavor of the day?
David: It's a tough one. I read that question earlier. So that's a tough one for me because I think it's up to the individual. Like if you are willing or wanting to speak your mind or talk about, speak of the dog, talk about those things,
Conor Fowler: but
David: um You should. And I think we all have a responsibility on some level to have ownership over what's important and to point out when people are not beaten being treated equally and ah do whatever we can to to help, right?
David: Like to be a to be a, and I'm losing my word, but ah just to be an ally, right? Like to be somebody who is there no matter what.
Conor Fowler: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
David: companies, I think it's like, i own a company, right? So I own ah a company that makes watch straps. And I don't know that by posting things politically or not politically,
David: are going to hurt or hinder or boost my sales but i just don't think of my company that way i just think it was like oh what what can i do to make better watch bands but then personally in my personal life i will stand up for what i believe and i don't think I hide my company in any way. I don't think I hide my opinions.
David: But honestly, when I go to post about things, I'm posting about watch bands and watch shows and watches. i'm not I'm not thinking about that as a as a as a goal, if that makes sense.
Conor Fowler: Sure. Yeah. But I mean, like the origin, for example, of something is important. And in a way that's making an activist choice, right?
Conor Fowler: Like where you are having things produced is perhaps the most important thing in all of clothing.
David: yeah
Conor Fowler: ah So I think that's a good answer.
matt: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: I mean, i wonder,
Conor Fowler: Cause there's so much like bad faith ah stuff by brands, right? They're like, Hey, my God, it's like gay day.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Let's go or 10% off.
David: Right. So i think I think it flips both ways. And I might have misunderstood your question a little. um But... I think it's important to honor and own yourself first and know who you are be willing to learn, be willing to make mistakes, be willing to try, be willing to admit when you're wrong.
David: And I think companies have a responsibility to do that as well. um I think there is still cultural appropriation with clothing. i think there's there's companies that do it
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah.
David: in a way that's respectful and there's companies that do it in a way that's just hurtful. um If we're talking about that, then you absolutely have a responsibility to own what you're appropriating, like without question.
David: um I don't think it's, um
David: the best way I can say it is, from my personal standpoint, I want to be and do the best that I can for anybody else in the scope of my life.
David: And I will continue to work and learn and be better in every possible way and scope in my life. And I think companies, as they work,
David: Don't always put that at the front of their goals. Like I think the front of their goals often is, can we make more money? Can we, you know, can we survive? Can we go forward? And I just, I think as you go as a company, you got to put yourself in a position where you're being open and honest about what you're doing, but also,
David: owning your manufacturing process, owning who you're taking advantage of in that process, owning who you're taking advantage of in terms of the sales.
Conor Fowler: and food
matt: Yeah.
David: Like, I think that's a critical component that's often just kind of swept under the rug for low prices and, you know, quick shipping.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, those and those sacrifices are ah quickly and easily and kind of thoughtlessly made, right? it's
matt: It's also something that like Derek has talked about, I know, but like the kind of nativist angle, um you know, or the nativist nationalist, whatever you want to call it angle.
Conor Fowler: It's hard.
David: Yeah. Absolutely.
matt: It's like, there are sweatshops in the U.S. Just because something is USA made does not mean that someone is getting, you know, exploited.
David: absolutely
matt: And there are great, you know, great producers of garments in basically any, any part of the world. And it's like, you, you kind of have to balance that because some companies are quote unquote ethical on paper.
matt: And then in actuality, they're, they're using sweatshop LA labor.
David: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: Yeah. The price per piece model and, um, just insane.
matt: pet Yeah. You know, it's ridiculous. And you know, like I, I am a big fan of things that are made in the USA because is important to me that we make cool shit.
matt: But yeah, it's, ah you know,
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, it generally means made by adults.
matt: right.
David: Right.
Conor Fowler: And that's important.
matt: Right.
David: Yeah.
matt: And
David: And, you know, in charging, like I'm not, I'll be the first to admit that just because something is expensive doesn't mean it was done the right way.
matt: right, exactly.
David: Um,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: But if it's made in the U.S. and it is expensive, there's a chance that some of those, you know, nefarious practices are probably not present. But I think it's up to the to the company to own that first.
matt: yeah
David: And if they don't, then it's up to the consumer to do a little research and, and and you know, talk to people and do a little research on the website or or the company itself and try to find out what, you know, what they're doing in order to make $8 t-shirt or, you know,
David: or
matt: Right.
David: you know
matt: Right. Yeah. And the companies that like are on the level and do, you know, like, kind of give you an insight into their business are, are some of the, you know, the only ones I respect.
David: Yeah. By the way, i don't know if you're familiar with Manresa, but I had a chance to meet their owner, ah Mike, in New York.
David: He did a pop-up and they are fully moving manufacturing to Connecticut in there own and their own like factory.
matt: Oh, whoa.
David: um
matt: That's sick.
David: And you know the prices are going to reflect that, but
matt: Right, of course.
David: In just the weirdest interaction. And nobody comes to Rochester, by the way. There's no reason, really. If you want to visit Kodak and see, you know, the George Eastman house, that's kind of cool.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: um You know, and it's a nice city. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to bash Rochester, but it's not a destination city.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's your hometown, right?
David: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love it.
Conor Fowler: Like you've been here the whole time.
David: The whole time I don't plan on leaving. I love it. I wouldn't change.
Conor Fowler: Which is tight. He said he has he has a great a group of great friends. That's how he's there still.
David: Yeah, that's it.
Conor Fowler: that's That's fucking awesome. Wow.
David: um But i I'm standing in line at a coffee shop, like my local spot, and this guy's just staring at me like I was wearing my, I don't have it near me, I was wearing my Manresa hat and and he's like, dude, i work there.
David: I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, I work there.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
David: I go, well, what the hell are you doing here? He's like, well, I'm on my way to Buffalo for a gig. He plays in a band, but he sews for Mike during the week and they help cut and use CAD and they're doing everything in house, like everything, pattern drafting, everything.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
matt: And that's incredible.
David: And He's like, I'm just on my way to a show. He goes, but dude, I like, what are the chances? It was just the most random, random thing, but really cool experience. And um I just, I like what they're doing a lot.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, this isn't too wild. I don't think like, I think these are the kind of like, ah American prices, like there's a smock for 325.
Conor Fowler: three twenty five There's like some pants for 265.
matt: I mean, as, as yeah, but it it is.
Conor Fowler: I think that that's just the cost of that's the cost of doing business. Yeah.
matt: And like, as someone that loves like engineer garments and that, you know, that kind of thing, like that price for a smock is, is absurd.
David: Yeah.
matt: It's great.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Like it's a value compared to me.
David: And it's, it's well done. i mean, I, it's, it's really, really nice stuff.
matt: Yeah.
David: And, and I think he was talking about having a lifetime replacement or guarantee on it as well. Um, I don't know if that came to fruition or not, but I think the idea was that I, if we're making it here, we can fix it here and we can remake it here if we need to.
Conor Fowler: That's a big deal.
Conor Fowler: just stand behind it. Yeah.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I mean, and that worked for being forever, like, and so until people have ruined it.
matt: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
David: Until people went thrifting and got their money. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: The tragedy of the commons, like,
David: Yeah.
matt: Yeah. Jesus Christ.
David: I got a fun story for L.L.
matt: Um,
David: Bean. So... I got these gloves this is way back, like 97, 98, something like that.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: I got these rabbit fur lined gloves and I just, I love them. Like they were, they were my thing. And I wore them probably for seven years and the rabbit fur all fell out and they were kind of gangly and falling apart.
David: And I called LL Bean and I was like, Hey, you know, I've had these gloves for, you know, this long. And, and, and the woman, like got to give her credit.
David: She's like, well, it sounds like you've gotten a lot of good use out of those gloves.
Conor Fowler: Ha ha ha ha ha!
David: And it sounds like you probably, the value you spent on them was, was, was achieved. And so if you want to bring them back to, a or ship them back to us, we will replace them for you. But, you know, I think if you, you know, if you, if you feel like you got your use out of them, maybe it's time to just,
David: maybe donate them and buy another pair. And I like, I'm just out of college. I'm like, um broke I'm broke. like, I can get new gloves. Like I was just, and I, in that moment learned a valuable lesson. I was like, wait a minute.
David: This, this woman is telling me like, Hey, you got your use, you got your value. So I just, I did, I donated them and I didn't end up buying a second pair, but I didn't try to get a free pair out of it either. yeah,
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: It obviously crossed my mind. I was ready to call them, but um this was a just out of college kid who didn't know shit from a snow shovel. It is.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: ah what a great What a great expression. I'm sure that's a common one in the Great White North. So...
David: It is.
matt: Thank
David: it is
Conor Fowler: so Do you think that the way that you dress has an interaction? As I wrote the question initially, ah is there some interaction between our current moment and the way that you dress?
David: Um, I don't think so. Um, I, if I go back as far as I, I remember getting dressed, it's always just been about feeling my best.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: And, and now that I, now that say that out loud, I don't think it's ever been more important to feel good with all the, ah with all the shit happening in the world.
Conor Fowler: That's what I'm saying.
David: So, um,
Conor Fowler: Right.
David: I just never really connected those dots though. I guess I just, I was going to do it anyway. Like even if things were going swimmingly, I'd, I'd, I'd still be dressing the way I'm dressing and excited about getting dressed.
David: I'm super selfishly. It's, it's more about me. Like I, I love a day where nobody says anything to me. Like that's my most, that's my most successful day.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, matt Matt relates to that.
matt: um Oh my dude.
David: Oh my God.
matt: oh Yeah.
David: If I can go through the day and nobody says like, oh, I love your scarf or, oh, I like the, I, that to me is like, okay.
matt: Same.
David: I flew just under the radar, just enough that nobody really noticed what I was doing as compared to, you know, I i have a coworker. i have a ah red and white striped rugby shirt.
David: And, oh, there's Waldo. You know, that kind of shit.
matt: Oh, yeah, yeah.
David: I'm like, that I don't need. But that's an extreme circumstance. But, no, if I could just dust under the surface, that's perfect for me.
Conor Fowler: Because there is, go on, Matt.
matt: To be fair, to be fair, i just don't want to work. I don't want to be talked to for the most part. Like, i'm I'm friendly, you know, talk to me, sure. But, like, if I could go a day without speaking a word, i would be so happy.
David: So I talk for a living. I talk.
matt: Yeah, this is true. You're a teacher, so...
David: how yeah so I have lots of that. But I also love the interaction. If it's genuine, and like I'm helping somebody like if I'm giving somebody some advice, um I can then
matt: yeah
David: I can it maybe affect their mood in the future. Like maybe I can make them feel just a little bit more confident the next day or in the next outfit or the next time they go shopping. Like I've talked to a ton of people who who tell me like, oh, I just dread shopping.
David: And it's because there isn't something for them.
matt: Right.
David: And when you go out into a store and 80 to 100% of things, I'm speaking as a big guy, 80 to 100% of the things in the store won't fit you. That's discouraging.
David: So if I can provide just one little nugget of like, hey, try this or go here and, you know, maybe see if they have this size and and don't be afraid to go to a tailor and see if they can fix it for you. And if they can't take it back and return it, that's okay. Go through you know, go through the motions.
David: um So I think I think people are seeking that out to, to your point is that but as your point, Connor is like, yeah, it is shitty right now.
David: It's the worst it's ever been politically. It's the worst it's ever been emotionally. Like it's just an awful time. So if you can find one little spotlight and if it's closed, then yeah, that's ah that's a, that's a great opportunity to just, if not for others, at least boost your own self-worth.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. That's what I was trying to tee up anyway.
David: Okay. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like I think that that, I think that that's, it is so important to try to feel your best and to your like, cause i have taught to like,
David: yeah
Conor Fowler: the way that you are perceived is very important. Not like significantly more than other jobs, but like kind of, you know, ah you only have your first impression to make and it's really ah total.
Conor Fowler: Like you just, children are very perceptive regardless of their age. And so it's like, if you are faking it, then you're not going to last very long.
David: Yeah.
David: Yeah, no, absolutely. And if you dress what I would call professionally, you're less of a target for whatever, because kids are coming in with a mixed bag and you don't know what their
Conor Fowler: doesn't hurt.
David: experience was that day or that morning or in their life. And, and there's 25 of them and there's just a lot of energy happening.
Conor Fowler: right
David: So if you always look professional, you just get treated a little more professionally. Not always, not always, but for the most part.
Conor Fowler: doesn't hurt
David: And then it gives you this wonderful opportunity, like three months into the school year to wear your Jordans. and blood just blow everybody's mind. They're like, what?
matt: So it goes from being professional to how you how do you do, fellow kids?
David: Yeah.
matt: I'm just kidding.
David: Yeah.
matt: I'm kidding.
Conor Fowler: No, that's how it is.
David: No.
Conor Fowler: I mean, they said a student told me about my wallabies. Your white man shoes, Mr. Connor.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Perfect.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, it's good.
matt: to be fair To be fair, he's not wrong.
Conor Fowler: It's a crucible. Yeah. Well, it's like, but kind of not. Who popularized the wallaby? The Wu-Tang Clan.
matt: Oh, I know, i know, but its origins are very, very... Caucasian.
Conor Fowler: Coccozoidal.
matt: So yeah.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, of course.
David: Yeah. So it's, it's little, little things like that, at least in that profession. um But I also just, there, there is something to to your previous question, there is just something that like,
David: a nice shirt that fits and a nice sport coat that goes over it and colors that make sense together. you know, I teach high school art, so I love color on top of it. um So I like combination you know combinations with different textures and values and um different weaves and different patterns. And I just, I like kind of playing,
David: i it's not an instrument, but it's kind of like organizing sentences. Like I want to, I want to portray a certain feeling or mood or look or warmth.
David: Then you can, you can actually achieve that by combining certain pieces of clothing. And, and, you know, if you're an asshole, you're still going to be an asshole. But if, if you, if you are presenting yourself into like, Hey, this is kind of a thing the way I look is the way I feel.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: It's creative.
David: I think it can it can soften the edges a little.
matt: I mean, clothing is an art form. ah you know It's necessity, yes, but if you're into clothing, it's not dissimilar from writing or playing music or making you know physical art.
Conor Fowler: it's creative
matt: Like, it's a way to, you know, it's a way to express yourself and, and to like, kind of say what you're thinking inside.
David: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
David: think it's a muscle.
Conor Fowler: You should strive towards fluency, right? Like if it is a language, you should try to be as fluent as possible.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: And.
matt: if If you want to speak that language. Like, it's not, you know, there's plenty of people that put, you know, almost no thought into what they wear dayto day to day.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: But those of us that want to learn the language and speak it in our own dialect, that's, you know, that's what it's about.
David: It's like training a muscle too. it's um I think some people just fall out of bed stylish.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: They just, you know, Coleman Domingo just looks...
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: incredible at every moment.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: um Other people have to work at it. And if you train it, like you train a muscle, you know, there's lots of free things you can do to get better at dressing. Like on Saturdays, take an hour and just try a bunch of shit on and take pictures of it and save those and be like, all right, that looked really cool. Let me put that together as an outfit later on. And if you're just getting up in the morning, like I do, and kind of It's early, like I'm up at 5.45. I'm kind of racing to get it together, but I've done this enough times that I know just in the back of my mind, like, okay, I can combine these three or four things.
David: But if you don't know that and you haven't trained that muscle, when you do try to put a fit together, it can feel like, oh, my God, like, well, what do I do here? You have to practice it. You have to you have to try a bunch of shit on and and just kind of see what different combinations work for you.
matt: And then occasionally you get to really flex that muscle.
Conor Fowler: Right. What is your, so I don't think you're like laying out your outfit the night before you're just kind of going to the rack and like seeing what speaks to you.
David: Never.
David: Yeah. I never, ever. I mean, when I try to pack for a trip, it is the worst clothing experience of my life every time because I just can't.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. It's really bad.
David: I mean, I don't want to say I'm George Costanza dressing by mood, but that's kind of how I dress.
Conor Fowler: Right.
David: Like,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: I did break it down though. I wrote this down a while ago. um i think it falls into like one of three categories. You either pick a piece, like I know I'm going to wear this sweater.
David: And then you build an outfit around that sweater. which I think is difficult to do because if the sweater is bright or a bold, then you really do have to be careful with the rest of the pieces.
David: um If the sweater is really boring and plain, then you know you've got a little more room to play. I think the second way is I wanna dress for an occasion. Like I know that it's gonna be more of a formal event, so I'm gonna use more of a formality scale.
David: And then I think there's just where I live, dressing by necessity, like it's minus 12. I'm not wearing, you know, what I'm, know, not going to wear let suede slippers today.
David: I'm going to wear my shearling line boots or bean boots or something.
Conor Fowler: Right, right.
David: So, um, I think it kind of falls in that category. I think I tend to get dressed in the peace method most of the time. Like, Oh, I, you know, I haven't worn this jacket in a while, or I haven't worn this sweater in a while.
David: Let me, let me put a fit together around that. Um, But I definitely do it on the fly in the morning. And sometimes just, you know, I have a catalog of images of stuff that I've worn because I've kind of documented all of this.
David: um And I will go back to those and and and use them as examples and maybe tweak one or two things here or there. um But for the most part, it's on the fly. I would just feel too scripted. Like I just, there's no way I could lay out clothes the night before. I'd end up switching everything out by the morning.
Conor Fowler: For the record, i don't do that.
David: No, no, that's fine. That's fine.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It is
matt: yeah
David: There's nothing wrong with it. though Don't get me wrong.
Conor Fowler: Well, no, I just want to be clear that that is not my methodology.
matt: Right. Right.
David: I mean, yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean,
matt: ah I'd like to fly by the seat of the pants routine.
David: Yeah.
matt: Like,
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: i did that shit in high school, though, because I was like, I'm going to stay asleep for as long as I possibly can.
David: Yeah. No, for sure. For sure.
matt: Well, to to start winding down, um we have a question that I think we forgot to ask in the last episode. Sorry, y'all. ah But a question that we have added to our lexicon, which is, what are you wearing in the apocalypse?
David: I saw that. So
matt: Ha ha ha ha ha!
Conor Fowler: No. but
David: I'm going to answer it two different ways. Number one, I'm going to grab everything that's warm that I own.
Conor Fowler: yeah
David: So I'm going to grab... tweed trousers or wool flannel trousers, my bean boots that have the shearling insoles. I'm going to grab my down coat or vest.
David: I'm going grab my cashmere sweater, turtleneck probably, ah cashmere hat, ah gloves, scarf. going grab everything that's warm because where I live, you will not survive if you are not geared properly.
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: But that's kind of the boring answer.
Conor Fowler: It's
David: um
Conor Fowler: practical answer.
David: If I were, if I were, good that's the tactical, it right, right.
matt: The tactical answer.
David: um
David: Truthfully, i have a couple hand-knit double ah RL ranch cardigans that just just fucking slap so hard i can't even take it. Like I have to control when I wear them because they're just so great and I i want to wear them all the time, but they're there they're bold.
David: um And I end up, I would grab one of those.
Conor Fowler: Nicely done.
David: i would grab a pair of, um i have a pair of jeans from Briceland's. I would grab those and I would grab a pair of suede chukka boots because I think they kind of go with with anything.
David: And ah I would grab probably a Cuban cigar and a bottle of whiskey.
matt: yeah All right. All right.
David: Hmm.
Conor Fowler: nicely done Yeah, I don't think that anyone has ah included non-clothing items, which should sort of be obvious, right? like Because I would want at least a pack of cigarettes.
matt: Yeah. I'm going to hope that I have a carton of cigarettes at that, or I can get a carton real quick. Cause yeah.
David: Or can we assume there's a bug out bag like with water and food in it?
matt: Oh yeah.
David: Because.
matt: There there is a bug out bag.
Conor Fowler: and be that's Actually, that's what we should produce, the Apocalypse Duds branded bug out bag.
David: All right.
David: Yeah.
matt: yeah Yeah, you might be the first guest that hasn't mentioned a fishtail parka since.
David: Oh, all right. Good, good, good, good.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: This is not probably not warm enough for Rochester though.
David: I own one too.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: No, it's definitely not.
Conor Fowler: i mean, I guess it is with a liner in it, but you know,
David: No.
matt: definitely not.
David: And I do own one. Like I could have called that. um No, I think the ranch cardigan. But, you know, that bug out bag, you got to have very specific pockets for like loafers and for button downs and, you know, like hyper make it for things no one would ever need in an apocalyptic situation.
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah.
matt: This is true.
Conor Fowler: That sounds like what I would do, right?
matt: ah
Conor Fowler: Because my mom and my grandmother are always giving me shit.
David: right
Conor Fowler: like You're bringing six pairs of shoes for three days? Yes.
David: I might die first, but I'm to look cool as hell.
Conor Fowler: Because you never know what's going to happen. Well, you never know what's to happen. You can't predict the weather.
David: No. No. Six pairs of shoes and at least a dozen pairs of underwear for no reason.
Conor Fowler: Right. It's about being prepared.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: You never know what will happen.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah How do you... And I guess this is a weird question, but like... Do you have internet celebrity at school?
David: I keep it very under wraps.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: Um, I don't, very few kids know about it. I also think I'm beyond their lexicon at this point. Like, I don't think they're seeking out.
matt: Yeah, I was going to say, like, the Youngs aren't on Twitter and Instagram is not as, like, diluted. or Or not diluted, but, like, Instagram menswear is not a pushed topic.
David: Yeah.
David: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And they only want to wear t-shirts.
David: Yeah, sweatpants, t-shirts, sneakers. Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: so
matt: ah
David: Well, I will say that I do have a TikTok as well. And I don't think anybody's found me on there either. So maybe I'm just, um you know, my...
matt: It's
Conor Fowler: you're so As you were earlier, staying under the radar.
David: Yeah, that's right. that Just under the... um I have had in the past ah had to block a few kids.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
David: um But it's fine. It is what it is. and And honestly... they're way more shocked when they find out than anything. They're like, you what?
David: Like you don't, yeah, you don't sleep here and like do nothing on the weekends.
Conor Fowler: You don't live in the school?
David: Like, no.
Conor Fowler: Mr.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Cotter, I saw your cot.
matt: ah As someone that sells vintage clothing and sees like you know some later high school ah kids and what they're wearing in these days, is like from your direct perspective, is there a lot of the Y2K shit being worn in a normal-ass high school?
David: Not so much where I am. um It's, I think it's the kids that are just out of high school.
matt: Okay. Okay.
David: Like when they first get past that, they're like, okay, I've got to buy my own shit now. um
matt: Right, right.
David: That stuff is available. It's, it's, there's lots of it. And it's like, it's signaling, right? Like if I've got the right you know, Nike shirt or the right Harley Davidson shirt or the right Grateful Dead tie-dye, which God, had I just kept a couple of them?
matt: ah Right, right.
David: I mean, I had 40 of them and all the ones that are super expensive now.
matt: Oh, yeah. The story of our lives.
David: Anyway. Yeah. um But no.
matt: Also, in peace, Donna. She passed away today.
David: Yeah. Yeah. Dona Jean Godshow. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: but not that other guy.
David: Um, but yeah, I, I, so I don't notice it as much in the high school, but I think like we have, I don't know if your city, I'm sure they do. Uh, we have like pop-up fleas here a lot and it's all.
matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's where, yeah, that's what I do, pretty much.
David: Okay. So, yeah. So, uh, and ah where my workshop is for my company, uh, a guy upstairs sells vintage and like, he's a buddy of mine. And, and I, like, I get to go up to his warehouse and like,
David: pour through the piles before he gets them online or takes pictures or washes them or anything. So um yeah I think it's funny, the the the stuff that's starting to pop off now, at least what I'm seeing is the more true vintage, like 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s.
matt: Okay. Yeah. yeah
David: um And I think I'm seeing a little bit more people committing to a look versus just signaling with this one t-shirt that's super well known or ah super rare.
David: i think they're seeing like, oh, if I like get some vintage denim and some vintage boots and a vintage vest, now I'm starting to put together something that's a little more cohesive.
David: um The last one of those I went to, there was this girl, she was a vendor, but she just looked so good. She had like a full Western wear fit on and it was,
David: The size was right. The age was right. you know And she couldn't have been more than 22. But like she looked like she walked out of you know a Marlboro commercial from the 1950s or 40s.
matt: Right.
David: It was just great.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
David: It was just great.
matt: I wonder if this is a recession indicator because um last time America Americana popped off as as hard as it is now is after in the Great Recession and the couple years following.
Conor Fowler: been
matt: So yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's back to the sentences, right?
David: yeah
Conor Fowler: Like if you're just wearing your one t-shirt for the purpose of this example, you will have one word to make your point, right? But if you are wearing a whole host of items, you're speaking in a more complex way.
Conor Fowler: So you're more likely to be understood, perhaps.
David: Yeah. Or at least just garner a little more interest. Like seeing that same vintage rare shirt
Conor Fowler: Right.
David: 30 different times and that's what you're about. Like, i think if you're putting together a more cohesive fit, you're saying to the world, I put some thought and care and effort into this and I do want to communicate something.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: um And it's, I say this in my art class a lot too. It's like, you can have the idea. you can You can create the artwork and you can create the purpose and you can lead people to the path.
David: But once you hang it on the wall, it's no longer yours. It's other people's interpretation of that and where they take it is up to them because they're coming in with totally different experiences, totally different understanding and knowledge. And and and they may see and go down a completely different direction than you had set them out.
David: And I think with clothing, maybe not quite as complex as a piece of artwork, but I think you can kind of lead people to the path more cohesively if you're putting some thought and effort into that the overall look and feel of the fit.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I think that's concise.
matt: I think so. And I think that's a ah good spot to kind of wrap things up. But man, David, this has been a really fun conversation.
David: Thank you so much.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
David: And I i genuinely, i I appreciate the opportunity. i appreciate just talking to somebody about this stuff because I don't know if you know this. Rochester's not exactly ah big... i mean and Don't get me wrong. like i There are...
David: his historically some great clothing brands from Rochester, obviously Hickey Freeman, ah which is now Rochester Taylor, Rochester Taylor clothing. And they, um just to give them a little plug, like they're doing some really good stuff right now.
matt: Oh, it's it's great.
David: Yeah.
matt: Like, I miss Southwick with every fiber of my being.
David: Yeah.
matt: Like, I had a relationship with that factory for years. And I'm glad that RTC and actually John Martinek that I worked with at Southwick years ago, it runs that factory.
David: yeah
matt: so Oh, that's awesome.
David: Yeah. Yeah. I met him. So I did a whole tour of the factory. It was, oh yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: I've got a whole story I'm putting together. So I'm not a writer. I just, I can talk, but I can't like, when it comes to writing, I just, i kind of clam up and I can't quite get it out. So I'm working on a story that I, know, I was there for a few hours.
David: I met John. I met, um I had an interview with Jeffrey, who's their president, Jeffrey Didich.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I don't know him personally, but I remember him from South Forum.
David: Sweetheart.
matt: Yeah.
David: Awesome guy. And just unbelievably knowledgeable about tailoring. Like at a level I can't even, like even the tailors I've used don't know what he knows.
matt: Yep.
matt: Right.
David: But anyway, um great interview with him. Like it was just a really cool experience. i mean, we broke it down to Melanie's buttonholes, which turns out we're done here first
matt: Oh, interesting.
David: Just a little nugget.
matt: so
David: But I just like a cool experience in Rochester.
Conor Fowler: What?
David: But my buddies here could not give a shit less about clothes.
matt: yeah Right, right.
David: And they are starting to get into it. Like um I'll end with this. But we we we make an annual trip to O'Connell's every year.
David: Usually three or four of us. We dress up in tweeds. We make the drive. It's usually between Christmas and New Year's. And we go shopping.
David: We go get a burger. We have a scotch. And then we, you know, we come home and it's a great, great day. And and even the guys who don't shop and don't, you know our clothing isn't a thing for them.
David: They look forward to this trip. I think it's ah become a tradition.
matt: Hell yeah. like yeah
David: So.
matt: Yeah. That's, that's wholesome as shit.
Conor Fowler: sounds like a blast.
matt: Honestly.
David: Yeah, that's fine.
matt: Yeah.
David: That's fine. um I did want to also just mention, and if you want to cut it here, i i so I'm sorry I missed that initial question about the responsibility of the of the the brands.
David: I was thinking about it a totally different way. i was thinking about it as a,
David: like, not the, how they're taking advantage of people. But as a responsibility to like speak about what is wrong in the world versus,
Conor Fowler: Well, that is kind of how I meant it. I guess I left it open, right? Like what responsibility does...
David: okay.
matt: But um honestly, like the two aren't mutually exclusive. And so talking about it, you know, from, from one perspective or the other, kind of leads to the same ground.
Conor Fowler: No.
David: Hmm.
matt: I thought it was a great conversation.
David: Yeah, I just, i felt like what I, I'm just being honest with you, felt like what I said was being like, oh well, brands can do what they want to sell clothes.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, agreed.
David: Like, that wasn't my...
matt: No, no, no.
David: Like, well like, I think companies tend to because I because I own a company like I have to pay my rent and I have to pay my employee and I like to pay those on time and I want to pay my employee really well because she's fucking awesome and I need her.
David: And I keep giving her raises and I will break even if I have to just to keep her on board. But that drives my decision-making purely towards like, okay, how do I sell more watch bands?
David: How do I sell more watches? And I think because I manufacture locally, it's just two of us. um I don't think in that system of like,
David: who's getting taken advantage of. Cause I, I, I ask her every year. I'm like, are you being paid enough? Do you need anything from me? Like this past, like three months ago, she's like, can I work from home? I'm like, what do you need to work from home? Let's buy all the stuff.
David: So we bought all the stuff. She got a a home set up. So now she can stay at home and be with her pets. It's awesome.
matt: Dude, in my opinion, you you were doing things, yeah, you were doing things the 100% right way and fucking no one would change my mind on that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, there's there's really nothing better than that. Yeah.
David: Yeah.
matt: That's that's fantastic.
David: why Well, I think the when companies don't do that, that's where i that's where i like the hair on my neck stands up. It's like, not only are you making just massive amounts of money, but you're taking advantage of the most vulnerable people.
matt: Right.
David: And are willing to just like literally burn and turn in the next moment just to make 2% more.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
David: And i think, or even yeah, right, even less.
Conor Fowler: Or 0.5% more.
David: And like the companies that do it right are trying to do it right. And you have to actively plan for that. You have to actively know that, hey, I'm going to do what's right.
David: Despite the price, like I have to, because if I'm not taking care of my people, then I don't exist. And that's just the way my brain processes it.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
David: And when I when I look for new companies, I look for companies that are trying, at least trying to do their best to do the right thing.
matt: hundred percent
David: um
matt: 100%.
David: I buy alligator skins, which are our literally harvested for their skins.
matt: Yeah.
David: They do not have a food value. There are some donations, but it's very minimal. So they are considered a, it's it's not considered kind and in the grand scheme of things.
David: Whereas like a cowhide is a byproduct of the beef industry or the milk industry.
matt: Right.
David: The dairy industry. So when it comes to alligator, i spent six months and I landed on American tanning, which is in based in Atlanta.
matt: yep
David: And they put anywhere between two and three million dollars back into the environment. They have almost single-handedly brought back a species of alligator that was on the verge of extinction.
David: They have protected lands. Like they're doing, they're trying to do the right thing. In the end, are they are they harvesting animals for their skins?
matt: right
David: Yes. But are they doing and taking appropriate steps to try and do the best they can while still doing that? Yes.
matt: Yes.
David: And I think that's kind of what I was in the back of my mind. I'm thinking like, well, what's a company that's trying to do the right thing? that Like they're actively trying to do better.
matt: And I think that's that's a great way to think about it because none of us are
David: Uh,
matt: exempt from the connotations of her actions. And sadly, in this capitalist hellscape, we have to make money to survive and to live.
matt: And like, there's like, I'm vegan, but I understand that not everyone and not everything is like
David: Yeah.
matt: ah ah a kind of utopian angle. Like you have to be, you have to be realist about shit.
David: yeah
David: Yeah. And and ah the the thing that I i have a buddy, ah a really good buddy who's vegan as well. And and we've had lots of discussions. And I think the the biggest one that I when we we kind of got into it was like, I don't want to support what you don't want to support.
David: Like, I agree with you.
matt: Right, right.
David: And my my sort of, i don't want say angle because that feels kind of dirty, but like my point was that unless the beef industry is going to disappear,
David: Those animals are going to be harvested. And when those animals are harvested, we have a responsibility to use every fucking part of them to the nth degree, no matter what.
matt: Yes, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
David: So if that's going to exist, then we have to we have to take ownership of of that that death and honor it in some way.
matt: yeah I mean, it's good it's kind of like like hunting deer, ah you know, turkey, etc. i grew up in the South, obviously, and like that's a huge thing here.
matt: But every everyone I know that is a hunter uses every single part of that animal.
David: Yeah.
matt: And like, ah as someone that, you know,
David: Yeah.
matt: holds an opposite viewpoint. I'm just like, okay, like that, that makes sense. That almost honors what's happening.
David: Yeah. yeah They're paying respect to it.
matt: Yes, exactly.
David: For sure.
matt: Exactly.
David: Yeah.
matt: Uh, well, hell yeah.
David: Yeah. Awesome.
matt: I think that's a, that's a great way to end it, man.
David: Right.
matt: Um, this has been super fun and yeah, we'll, we'll have you back on at some point and,
David: Awesome. Well, that,
David: Love to. Thank you so much. I just genuinely appreciate the opportunity.
matt: Dude, thank you. Yeah, yeah. we We love just like talking to the people that we think are rad. So yeah yeah, you're easily in that category.
David: Awesome.
matt: But um shout out your account.
David: I appreciate that.
matt: Shout out whoever you'd like to and and we'll call it a night.
David: Awesome. Thank you. So ah David ah Lane is my middle name, but David Lane, I get a lot. BigFits1 on Instagram.
David: ah Still DavidLaneDesign on Twitter, but... Big, big fits, big dot fits maybe on TikTok. um But I think if you look up big fits or big fits one, I think you'll find me.
David: And my company is at David Lane Design. I do make watch bands, but I appreciate, I just genuinely appreciate the opportunity and appreciate you guys spending time with me.
David: And I know this takes a lot of effort to produce and a I can talk a little too much. So I'll end it there.
matt: No, no, no. we We love a talkative guest. Connor and I are both very talkative for the most part.
David: Awesome.
matt: So, yeah, man.
David: Awesome.
Conor Fowler: makes it easier for us.
matt: Yeah, dude it's been ah It's been a blast. Again, thank you. And it's our you know it's our pleasure to host the people that we host.
Conor Fowler: For sure.
David: Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
matt: Anyway, everyone, thank you for listening. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor flower at Connor flower.
matt: We are at Apocalypse Duds on Instagram, apocalypseduds at gmail.com. If you want to send us an email, I'll keep the bit going at some point. um Anyway, ah yeah, that's all for tonight, and we will see you next Wednesday.
Conor Fowler: Bye-bye.
David: See you.
