Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. i am your host, Connor Fowler, and Actually, wait, it's Matt's turn right now.
matt: And I am Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: And I have prepared such a great hour of clean fun for you. As they say in the biz, a blue routine or something.
Conor Fowler: ah And so we got a lot of good jokes, not a lot of profanity on this episode, ladies and gentlemen, these and thems.
matt: yeah We'll fucking see about that.
Conor Fowler: Right. So going to be talking today about cleaning clothing and clothing care with a dear friend of the program, Zoe G. Burnett, who has been on here before. um Welcome.
matt: Yeah, thanks for coming back.
zgb: Thanks for having me back, guys.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I feel like this...
Conor Fowler: How couldn't how couldn't we
matt: Yeah, exactly. ah This also seems like a different kind of show than we've done before, which is kind of exciting. And so, yeah, it'll it'll be nice to have a concentrated topic.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: Although I'm sure we'll still go on tangents and shit. But, yeah.
zgb: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: but it should be more informative than usual.
matt: Yes. To get started, Zoe, how are you?
zgb: I'm doing alright. It's February in New England, which means it reached negative zero Fahrenheit the other night.
matt: Ooh, yeah.
zgb: I'm appropriately dressed for it in many layers of wool.
matt: Right.
zgb: So...
matt: At least in the Northeast, like, ah cities know how to handle snow and ice and shit, as opposed to, like, down south, for the most part.
zgb: For the most part, but everyone
Conor Fowler: or even here in Maryland.
zgb: But at one point, I mean, especially during the first big storms, people just completely forget how to drive in snow.
matt: Oh, yeah.
zgb: And it's for those of us who have grown up in this, in a blizzard, it's just like, stay home.
matt: Right.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And it's basically not hard if you aren't speeding.
zgb: Yeah.
zgb: Right.
Conor Fowler: which is like the main thing to not do is drive fast.
matt: Yeah.
matt: On one of the, like, it might've been the first like full on winter tour that I did.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: And one of my old bands, like we played we played boston or we played i think haverall stayed in boston and then drove to portland maine the next day for a show and i legit had to drive through a fucking blizzard and that was one of the most terrifying things of my life like by the time we got to the venue the uh headlights had frozen over with ice yeah real fun
zgb: Wow. Hat off to you. Yeah. that That's rough. That is a rough drive.
matt: yes yes um
Conor Fowler: I think it's always i mean, because Maine has like two roads, right? More or less like two arterial roads.
zgb: Yeah, unless you want to make...
matt: Yeah, pretty much.
Conor Fowler: So it's like, you're either coming or going.
zgb: Mhm.
Conor Fowler: But we do have some ideas about how to do this. I figured first we would we would sort of talk about stuff that is common knowledge kind of to us um that is not actually conventional wisdom. I mean, I think something like drying your clothes is not as advisable as you might think, um which is to say using a clothing dryer to dry them, not hang dry them or what have you. um
Conor Fowler: But that would be my suggestion anyway, because you really can live a wrinkle-free, relatively wrinkle-free life if you are not drying your clothes in the machine.
Conor Fowler: If you hang dry them. People don't believe me about this, but it's really the truth.
zgb: For the most part. Yeah. Well, it depends on the level of wrinkle-free you want to be, I suppose.
Conor Fowler: Right.
zgb: Because some people like the knife-edge military flatness. of their shirts and their trousers, which I just can't commit to.
Conor Fowler: And, and how do they even do it? How do they even manage it? I don't understand. I know that you and I have spoken about this ironing before and like it, I have done the cost benefit analysis basically. And like, it's way better to hang dry your shit than it is to ever touch an iron.
Conor Fowler: But I agree that it's nice to have a crease.
zgb: Yeah.
zgb: Sure. Yeah, and it's that's fine, but also i many things should be hang dried anyway, depending on what you're wearing.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Basically.
zgb: um I guess we should kind of start with that. I think material is so important, especially when buying clothing. And now, number one.
zgb: Just because anything you buy that's synthetic or Essentially, I'm just calling it plastic clothes now because they keep coming up with new words.
matt: Yes, yes.
zgb: They're all like viscose, polyester. It's all the same thing. It's plastic.
Conor Fowler: basically
zgb: So you're not going to have a great time trying to conserve or clean any of that. But if you buy things that are of more durable material, like cotton, wool, linen, or a blend of the two,
zgb: If you can. i know I know it can get a little bit more expensive, but at the same time, it's just it's so much more worth it because you won't have to buy the same thing in a year.
matt: Right, right. The only thing i feel like gets a pass for being polyester is fleece.
zgb: Yeah, sure. Because you're not washing that all the time.
Conor Fowler: And that's very that's very purposed, right?
matt: Yeah.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's like the point of the fleece is that it keeps the heat in because it's plastic.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: So this is what I think, like a lot of people complain about sweating a lot.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: Totally. Totally.
Conor Fowler: And i am not having that complaint because I'm wearing cotton and wool, you know? So it's like, I'm not wearing a plastic bag over my body and not expecting it to perspire, which is really what it is.
matt: Yeah. I tried to cut out polyester outside of fleece like a fucking long time ago because every time I would wear like even a 50-50 t-shirt, you know, I could shower in the morning and an hour and a half later, I'm like, what the fuck? Why do I smell?
Conor Fowler: when they just feel so yucky.
zgb: Yeah, and I know it's different for workout clothing because of the sweat wicking technology. I'm not talking about, we're not talking about workout clothing today. Just ready to wear, but
matt: No, no, no. we're we're We're talking about Timu and She-In type clothing.
zgb: Yeah, and well, even honestly, I've seen so many brands that are traditionally higher end or more expensive brands recently, especially you don't get as much in menswear, but in womenswear, definitely. They've been cutting corners as far as fabric production is concerned. For example, there are t-shirts at Barber now.
zgb: Why? i don't know. But they, in the women's t-shirts, it's, think it's like 2% elastane along with the cotton. It's just like, they're still, you know,
Conor Fowler: And people see that as like, that's like a performance t-shirt.
matt: And I really, oh, God.
Conor Fowler: That's like, you know what I mean? That's not like, people are not thinking about that in the same way, which is really that it's like, I think this is correct. The manufacturer has ripped me off by including 1% elastane and not 1% cotton.
Conor Fowler: Right.
zgb: Right, because the the fabric is more expensive, but it's also screen printed, so it's not going to retain the pattern whatever pattern it is or design.
matt: Right.
zgb: And then it's it's going to be more difficult to clean, and eventually it will stretch out because the fiber content will distribute unevenly.
matt: Right.
zgb: So, that but yeah, it's it's just a lot of that, but the shirts are still $80 a t-shirt.
Conor Fowler: I bet they are.
zgb: for a teacher Yeah, so it...
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Well, they've got to like diversify, right? They've got to have like barber coffee cups and stuff. Wax cotton mugs.
zgb: I'd rather a coffee cup. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Oh, for sure. Then an $80 t-shirt. Yeah. I mean, that has no utility at all.
zgb: Yeah, and I shouldn't, I don't pick on Barber, I still love them, but it's it's it's everywhere. It's in so many brands, and it's so, I don't know, it's just tiring. Yeah.
matt: It really is, especially like, you know, if you think about it, one does 1% really, i guess if you're making at a certain scale, it saves money, but like, does it, does it actually?
zgb: Yeah.
zgb: It must, otherwise I don't and i don't know why they'd do it.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I think want that like a weird elastic feeling like they want it to be, I think that's the idea, right? Is this like this performance fabric, look at it move.
Conor Fowler: ah
zgb: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: But it's not, right? It doesn't.
zgb: No, it's...
Conor Fowler: Well, I guess it does. It's it's sweaty, though.
zgb: Yeah, and it might just provide a little bit more stretch, but if it's a box fit t-shirt, I don't really see the point.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: it doesn't make sense at all.
matt: Yeah. It makes me think of like the, what is it?
zgb: But...
matt: That like, oh, that the like like polyester that was made to you know feel like satin back in the day.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
zgb: Oh yeah. Well, that's yeah that's what Viscos is like. um And yeah, and all that.
matt: Yeah.
zgb: And I mean... i Again, i understand the re like the reasoning behind buying East Coast and not skip the silk, because it's probably a third of the cost, or a fourth.
matt: Right, right.
zgb: But at the same time, it's like, that will that will run immediately.
Conor Fowler: Right. Mm-hmm.
matt: Yes, yes.
zgb: And... Hold on, I was going somewhere else. Oh, and this the thing, and I see this a lot, especially with patterned dresses in... indie brands, high-end brands. I remember i remember seeing it most in mod cloth when that first came out.
matt: Yeah.
zgb: And all these adorable dresses, and they're, at that time, they were only like $50 to $75. They weren't very expensive. But of course, everything has gone up now, but they're still polyester prints.
zgb: So, I don't know.
matt: Right,
zgb: It's just, it's we talk about conscious consumerism all the time, and
Conor Fowler: It's, it's, it's,
zgb: I don't think that means so much like the buy best or well, yeah, the buy better, buy less that everyone's talking about all the time.
matt: right.
zgb: i think it's just, it's just also knowing what you're buying because there are some, there are some brands.
matt: right
matt: For sure.
Conor Fowler: so e six its
matt: And I will say it like as a person that, you know, makes my living selling vintage, um, I'll, you know, I'll buy vintage like polyester button ups or, you know, something like that from the seventies, if they're cool as shit.
zgb: Go on. Okay.
matt: Um, and I've, I've realized in my friends that sell women's wear too, like they sell polyester dresses from the seventies and sixties and whatnot, but like some people just generally don't care.
matt: And it kind of I don't know.
zgb: Yeah.
matt: It blows my mind.
Conor Fowler: They don't care about the composition, you mean?
matt: Yeah, they they don't care about wearing like 100% polyester, you know, vintage dress. Like, there's nothing wrong with it, obviously, but like, it would just, I don't know, it would make me wearing like a poly button down would make me so fucking grossed out.
Conor Fowler: yeah it's uh no no no it's suffocating
zgb: Yeah, i have one. go on. Sorry.
zgb: It is. I have one that I bought. ah It's this Italian maker from the 70s, and I got it from a fellow vintage dealer. it i wouldn't have normally, but it is a knockoff, like, pirated Italian print of a Edward Gorey lineup, like his characters.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
zgb: So, of course, I was just like, here's yeah money here.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: But I only wear it a few times.
Conor Fowler: That's awesome.
zgb: I've i've only worn it a few times because it's like you get sweaty and I have to get it like I actually have to get that dry cleaned. I won't touch it with my own stuff because it's too dangerous.
matt: Right.
zgb: So the amount of times I can actually wear it is limited for that reason.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Totally.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's just not as resilient. It's not as like, and it's odd you because you would think kind of, oh, this artificial fiber is more resilient, is like tougher than the natural shit because we humans made it.
Conor Fowler: Not so.
zgb: Yeah, and I mean, when we go back to all the synthetic production, it was all post-World War postw worldd war two I believe, where yeah where they were trying to make these um these new these new age future vision type fabrics, which led to a lot of this mess, because the clothing back then was all natural fibers because that was all they had.
Conor Fowler: DuPont.
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: Yes.
zgb: But now that we're seeing the damage that it's doing just environmentally with creating it and then discarding it, I hope that some i hope that some designers are coming around to this.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
zgb: And I know some are. I mean, in in our sphere of menswear, definitely.
matt: Certainly.
zgb: But yeah, it's it's just it's so concerning.
matt: Certainly.
zgb: And it will always be whether I'm buying vintage or new if i'm If I see something and I like it and, you know, it's fairly expensive, i if I look at the content and it's a blend or 100% plastic, I'm not buying it.
zgb: Because I know it it's cheaper to make.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I'm not buying that shit.
zgb: Yeah, just's just it just doesn't make sense to me.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: But you're right, I have friends who are definitely disposable Primark shoppers. And it it irks me to no end, but that's just the way they are.
matt: Yeah, thank thankfully I don't have a whole lot of those friends.
zgb: They don't they don't care.
matt: it's It's kind of great.
zgb: Yeah.
matt: yeah
zgb: This, yeah.
Conor Fowler: it's just It's just weird.
matt: Yeah, I mean, I know I've said it before, but like, you know, ah in a thrift store, inevitably you see fuckload of Shein stuff these days. And like, you know, it gives me, it gives me like a dry heaving type sensation when I touch it.
matt: I'm just like, holy fuck, that's the grossest thing I've felt in a very long time.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: It's exactly like that. I mean, it's like, it's the worst of the worst plastic combined.
matt: Right, right. Yeah, cheap fleece and dry-cleaned denim give me that same same kind of vibe.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: Dry clean denim?
Conor Fowler: do
matt: Yeah, like like down in the South, of course, people, you know, wranglers are are probably the predominant gene, I would say. And so, like, a lot of old-timers will have their jeans dry-cleaned.
matt: And it's like like, you can slice a piece.
zgb: Oh, OK.
Conor Fowler: with the with the crease pressed in
matt: Yeah, with a crease pressed in, and you could slice a fucking pizza with that thing.
Conor Fowler: which i think is so hardcore i just bought those white jeans they have a crease in them ha yeah dude and your face is exactly how i'm ah feeling about it like i was on ebay and i was like
zgb: This is a new cultural development to me.
Conor Fowler: Yes.
zgb: That's very exciting.
Conor Fowler: And they did turn out.
zgb: i'm happy for you.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, they turned out. I mean, I'm probably gonna be wearing them all the time.
matt: man You got to give me credit for, convin well, me and Jamal credit for convincing you to get white jeans.
Conor Fowler: i wasn't, I wasn't thinking of they they were a bad idea. But I was convinced into it.
matt: Right, right. Okay, yeah.
Conor Fowler: There was some advisement happening.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: I mean,
matt: Yeah, we had 25%, know, ah like part of that
Conor Fowler: I'll give you a quarter, sure. um So we can continue talking about natural fibers. I mean, I think wool is probably the next thing, um which we haven't really talked about all that much. I mean, it weirdly, my great-grandmother was a wool scientist in the nineteen forty s and fifty s um Yeah, she went to Smith College where her mother was the cook.
Conor Fowler: And so she got to go to the school for free. And so she became a scientist studying wool. I know relatively little. I mean, I feel like I should turn this over. um But when people say that it is a magic fabric, fiber, whatever, I mean, it really, really is.
Conor Fowler: so
zgb: It is. And I mean, it's a shame now that there really has been such a dig to the wool production, like just the wool industry.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: That's why you don't see as you don't see as many sheep anymore, because people just aren't buying wool as much as they used to.
matt: Right.
zgb: I mean, yet most of, again, you see sweaters that are blended with either other things or just blended with plastic. And I mean, I'm not talking like, I know like bean sweaters, the Norwegian knits have been wool and nylon for ever but that's not it's not so much what i'm talking about i'm talking about like new productions of especially again women's wear because there are so many more styles coming out every single day for a women's line versus men's men's line that it's really like harmful and the wool industry is in danger of disappearing entirely
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Right. I mean, I would imagine that like tailored clothing companies and brands are like one of the, one of the things keeping it at least like floating right now.
zgb: who
matt: And like, I, you know, we, we could talk ad nauseum about like tailored clothing disappearing and you know, whatever. And like, or it coming back, like who the fuck knows at this point.
zgb: her Yeah, well, even beyond tailored clothing, I'm just thinking of, I mean, sweaters.
Conor Fowler: you
zgb: it's um I go back to sweaters and like sweater dresses and things like that just because that's around this time everyone... digs them out or they go shopping for them and even places like Bean now are just so just not cognizant of the things that they are making. I mean, we've'm I'm sure we've talked about Bean hundred times and how disappointing it is as a company.
matt: Yeah, I'm
zgb: but
Conor Fowler: no do you know, are they owned by someone else? Or they they are they're just doing this their own........................
matt: I don't think they're owned by private equity. I could be wrong.
zgb: They, I think they went public because they're no longer, it's, the um must be a decade or so since they no longer, I mean, they don't produce in New England anymore.
matt: Right, right. They still make, they make the boots there.
zgb: They, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Well, so of course it's hard to find.
matt: Right.
zgb: No, they, um I think they, well, they outsource to different companies.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: I know for a while that Quote up in Maine was doing their but their boots.
matt: Right. Yeah,
zgb: like private label. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I, like, I have not been shopping there for a very long time.
matt: yeah I'm looking at their website for the first time and I don't even know how long and like
zgb: Just because.
Conor Fowler: Oh boy. ah It was it was disclosed in 2016 that Linda being one of the descendants of founder Leonard lean Leanwood being sits on the board of directors has donated $60,000 to a pack that supported Donald Trump's 2016 campaign.
Conor Fowler: Yes, that's probably enough of that Wikipedia.
zgb: Aw, man.
Conor Fowler: but
zgb: Oh, yeah, let's not.
matt: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: um
zgb: um Gives me another reason not to shop there.
Conor Fowler: Well, so I'll use my own shit today as an example. Like I'm wearing a wool tweed jacket. I have this cotton sweater vest on and I have this cotton Oxford on, which is not actually an OCBD. I think it's poplin.
Conor Fowler: But the point is I'm wearing all this shit and I'm not sweating. because it's all natural. So I feel like it has a reverse insulating property when you are trying to stay cool and vice versa, right?
zgb: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: Like it's insulating in both, in both directions, if that makes sense.
zgb: Right. Sure. And yeah, I mean, that's why would we have so many different gauges and weights for wool or cashmere even.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
zgb: i mean, i I still get too warm wearing cashmere sometimes, but Other than that, it's, yeah, I mean, similarly, I'm wearing a wool sweater that is actually from Barber. I shouldn't throw stones. But, yeah, it's, yeah, and the only reason why I bought this particular one was because it was the only sweater that I could find in, like, at that time that was 100% wool. It didn't have any blends. And that's in the men's section, too.
matt: Right.
zgb: um
Conor Fowler: Wow.
zgb: So I, yeah, and I have a an old vintage wool black watch skirt on and a cotton,
zgb: cotton t t-shirt underneath, cotton bandana from s Sable, New York, by the way, if you for all your but bandana enthusiasts out there, check them out.
matt: Sable.
zgb: Sable, New York City, I think they're called.
matt: Okay.
zgb: Yeah, they come to Al Fargo's every now and again, and their bandanas are really cool, just really neat designs.
matt: cool.
Conor Fowler: I'll definitely check that out because I have some that I never wear, but I like them.
zgb: I wear them a lot during the winter, because if I don't, want to go through the trouble of wearing a button down, i'll I'll just put it around my neck so I'm not allergic to wool or anything, but sometimes it does get a little bit abrasive.
zgb: So yeah, the that way I can just wear a long sleeve tee and bandana underneath and it's fine.
Conor Fowler: Itchy.
Conor Fowler: Smart maneuver.
matt: So let's let's talk about, ah you guys are both fans of sweaters, proper sweaters.
zgb: I do best.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: I am not. um But, you know, I think one of the things that, like, makes people wary about wearing, like, 100% wool things or, like, wool mohair, cashmere, et cetera, is, like, the maintenance of it.
matt: Like, oh, like i you know i can I can only wear this like once
zgb: who
matt: you know once or twice a month or else I'm going to have to clean it immediately. And it's like, no, that's that kind of kind of defeats the purpose of wool.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: So what are what are your guys you know kind of like tips and tricks and thoughts on the resilience of wool?
zgb: It depends on the wool. I don't know, Connor, would you like to go first?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I will. um So I was going to say the thing that Matt says about not washing it all the fucking time is right. Definitely don't wash it or maybe not. Definitely don't wash it in a washing machine. You probably don't wash it in a washing machine. Maybe you wash it by hand, depending on how delicate it is. It really just depends. um I think that.
Conor Fowler: Don't put it on a hanger.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: This is something that I see.
matt: Especially sweaters. yes
Conor Fowler: Do not put it on a hanger, even if it's a wooden hanger, don't put it on a hanger. And then it's weird when they say to block dry your sweaters, you're like, how is it going to get dry? It's like sitting on top of itself.
Conor Fowler: Well, it does. It just takes a while. And then you have like a nice, I don't know, ah sort of detergent scented sweater. It's very good.
zgb: Yeah, and it depends on what the... It depends on what the consistency of the sweater is, what the stain is, particularly.
Conor Fowler: yeah.
zgb: Or if you've just been wearing it.
matt: Yeah,
zgb: I mean, for for sweaters, I feel like are getting kind of funky. I'll just... If if it's wool, let's i'm I'm just going to speak about wool first.
matt: totally.
zgb: um If it's a little bit just... You know, I've been wearing it, I'll... winter and it just kind of feels a little musty, I'll put just a little cap of... I really like the Laundress for their cleaning products. I know everyone's going to have their favorites. That just happens to be mine. They have a great cedar wool shampoo.
zgb: which I usually have a mountain of sweaters by the end of the season that I'll just put, ah all you need is a cap, and I put it, when I put them in the wash, I put them on cold. And if you have a casual setting or delicate, delicate to me doesn't do anything.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
zgb: I don't know. It's kind of, I think it's a, I think it's con. But if you have a light or a casual setting on your washer, you just put that in and it'll, they'll be fine.
zgb: As long as it's not a fine gauge and you don't... I don't know.
matt: Yeah.
zgb: You don't brutalize it. You just use your
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Well, you brought up a good point um about sweaters to, you know, just...
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: feeling kind of funky because it takes it takes so much for like
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: you know Wool was essentially the first wicking fabric that was used. right and so you know people don't i don't think a lot of people realize that wool, if you're wearing it, especially if you have like an undershirt or something on, like a t-shirt or button-down or whatever, like it doesn't really hold sweat the way that one would think it does.
matt: so like You can get a lot of you know a whole season of wear, basically, out of a sweater unless you spill something on
Conor Fowler: you
zgb: Right. And even in that case, you can. It is possible just to spot clean and just give it like a little rinse and you're good.
matt: Right.
zgb: with The other thing that I always recommend to people and people, a lot of people can complain about, like if you do have to block dry or just put it on a rack, the they talk about, oh, it will drip for three days.
zgb: it's The thing that I have done in the past is rolling it up, like you put it put it on a towel and like ah just a regular bath towel, and roll it.
Conor Fowler: mm-hmm
zgb: Roll it up, and it'll squeegee out all of the excess water so it'll dry faster.
matt: Oh, that's a good, that's a really good tip. I've never heard that.
zgb: Mm-hmm. yeah it's ah Yeah, it's served me well on all weights of wool, so give that a try next time.
matt: Yeah. Some, something I've done. Um, and I'm, I'm not a wool person. Um, but obviously for, you know, for vintage clothing, like I'll buy wool jackets and things.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: And, you know, something I didn't realize a few years ago, um probably the best estate sale hall I've ever had, uh,
Conor Fowler: you.
matt: I got a pre-war, or a, it's pre-World War II, I would say it's probably like early 20s, U.S. Navy CPO shirt that was, you know, ah obviously like that super heavy, like not quite melting wool, but like very substantial.
matt: And everything from the sale smelled to the high heavens with mothballs, which is not the easiest thing to get out of clothing. And um I realized that I actually, i washed, machine washed it on Gentle and hung it out in the sun for like literally, i think 36 hours or, you know, hung it outside for that long.
Conor Fowler: no
matt: And it came out and I was like, oh, ah i've you know, you've always heard, like, don't wash wool, whatever, you know, obviously you're not going to wash your suits, but, you know, that was, that was like one of my first experiences with like, A, getting out mothball smell, and B, like, actually realizing that like, oh, this shit can actually like, you know, it can hold up pretty well, depending.
Conor Fowler: you
zgb: And I've had similar experiences because in my vintage dealing days I focused a lot on tweed for sport coats especially.
matt: Right.
zgb: And but one of the things that I would do, i would air it out first. Like I'd just i'd hang it on a hanger, put it outside until it stopped smelling so mothball-y.
matt: Yes.
zgb: That gets out a lot of it most of the time.
matt: Yeah, the sun really the key factor. And like just the the outside of air.
zgb: yes And i know that people are going to be screaming into their phones listening to this, but I have indeed watched or washed one of my tweed jackets.
matt: Oh, interesting.
zgb: Actually, more than a few.
matt: hu How did it come out?
zgb: It came out fine. Because you have to I actually got this from I forget. I saw it on YouTube. Somebody did it. And I was... My life changed.
Conor Fowler: You know who also says to do this?
zgb: Oh,
Conor Fowler: Darren. Darren Johnston says to do this.
matt: Oh.
zgb: yeah. Yeah, I think he and I have talked about it.
Conor Fowler: To wash the jacket? Yeah, yeah.
zgb: So, well, so especially if it's a suit or if you have a couple of jackets, you want to, um, you want to get a pile so your, your washer doesn't like completely fall over on itself because that'll happen.
Conor Fowler: No, so anyway.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
zgb: The, if you have a top loading anyway. And, uh, what I do is I turn them inside out so it's just liner out and fold them in like, fold them in half, like A quarter, like fold it fold the halfway lengthwise and then topwise.
zgb: Put it into a laundry bag. Then make sure, make it as tight as you can around the jacket itself or the trousers.
zgb: And if you need to, use safety pins around the edge. so And when you put it in, similar thing, just like put whatever detergent or whatever cleaner you're using Have it on cold. I think for this i I did, it depends on how funky the jacket is, but I would do either regular or casual.
zgb: And because it's so compact, it gets clean, but the fibers aren't agitated in a way that will damage the wool. And then once you have them out, you put it you hang it as you would normally hang something like that to dry.
zgb: And I've had good results from it, honestly. And it saves so much money on cleaning bills.
matt: Yeah, yeah, because dry coating is not cheap, and it's also fucking gross.
zgb: It's gross and it's bad. I mean, you can find green cleaners. i agree
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Or people that say that they're green.
matt: I've used it, yeah.
zgb: Like, they're around. Yeah. Yeah, the same thing. And, I mean, I love my dry cleaner. but's I'm not going to... criticize the the industry, but because they they do work miracles sometimes.
zgb: but for youre yeah But if you're wearing suits all the time, or you're a vintage dealer or something like that, and you need just like volume, then i would so I'd give it a try.
matt: Totally, totally.
zgb: i mean, honestly, don't take any risks besides doing the just the act of doing this but it's worth it's yeah investing in like a good clean a good conditioner or shampoo for specifically for wool is it'll save you a lot of money and that's mostly what i i think one of the things about that has driven me to this like being so obsessed with this sort of thing is that it's so much less expensive to mend your clothes to
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: Yes.
zgb: wash them properly, just taking care of them in general. And because a lot of the time when I talk about the sword thing, people are like, oh, it's so elitist to to be like, oh, well, you buy, like, let's talk about alton Alden shoes, for example. You buy $500 pair of shoes that are going to last you the rest of your life. Not everyone can buy a $500 pair of shoes, but you can buy a secondhand pair and get them resold and they're fine.
matt: Right.
zgb: And they are out there.
matt: Yeah. I mean, you know, not just Alden, but like Floresheim, you know, Johnston and Murphy back in the day.
zgb: So,
zgb: yeah.
matt: Like, as long as you can you can figure out the sizing and get that right, like, there's ah there's a million options. Alden is just sadly the last one that survived.
zgb: Right.
matt: Yeah.
zgb: Right. And yeah, and even with back on my... back on my barber, the they have that great aftercare service, which is completely laid out, and I just got mine back.
matt: Right.
zgb: So my first ever barber was an extra large children's Beaufort that I've had probably for 15 years now.
Conor Fowler: It's love.
zgb: I bought it at North River Outfitters on Charles Street, RIP, for all my Boston people out there. And it's I call it the Frankenjacket now. because it's...
matt: Oh, have they patched it up and and whatnot?
zgb: Oh yeah. Multiple times. i finally I finally went for the lining, um, or the the hand warmer lining in leather instead of cotton.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: it's i love which I love that John hates that shit, but he's wrong. It's better.
zgb: Well, it's only because I had taken it in, I had, this would have been the second time that I got my cuffs fixed.
Conor Fowler: It's way better.
zgb: So i was like, I guess, i'll you know, I'll try the leather. Maybe it will last a little bit longer.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: think it just is, it's, it's a suitable, right? It's like, it's a tough ah thing. I mean, I know there are ethical quandaries about it, but
zgb: Well, that's ah that's another thing that I feel strongly about. I mean, is we're all we're all vintage people here, so buying vintage leather, to me, is so much more not only economical but eco-friendly because it's already made and like people talk about the vegan leathers and all this stuff if it's not they're plastic yeah mhm
matt: Oh, there yeah. The only, like... it Yeah, I mean, i am vegan.
Conor Fowler: It is just plastic.
matt: Have been for nearly nine years at this point. And everything I, you know, everything I buy is secondhand, basically. So, like, I wear Vans skate highs, which are suede, but my buddy thrifted both pairs.
zgb: mhm mhm
matt: You know, shit like that.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: ah The vegan... Vegan leather is absolutely, like, not the fucking answer.
Conor Fowler: Well, yeah, it's a it's a marketing term.
matt: Yeah. And I know that there's like, I can't remember where I read it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: And it was not that recently, but like within the past year, um you know, there's people that are making like, are trying to develop like cactus leather and things like that, which sounds incredible.
matt: If you can get like the right consistency with something natural, that's not like animal based. Hell yeah.
zgb: Yeah, and I've seen mushroom leather too.
matt: Mushroom leather. Interesting.
Conor Fowler: yeah
zgb: Yeah, oh yeah, that's one I've seen that ive I thought was pretty cool, but also it's just like, just, I don't know, don't, I always, i don't know, I feel weird about it with the, well it's something else.
Conor Fowler: it's
matt: Well, it also kind of ties back into like consumerism. I
zgb: Right.
Conor Fowler: It's the tofu pup thing. It's like, you don't need to be eating a hot dog shaped thing in order to be vegan.
matt: i don't agree with that.
Conor Fowler: There's other shit.
matt: like I hate that argument, actually.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like, need to eat some vegetables, eat some beans, eat some other stuff.
matt: Well, yeah,
Conor Fowler: it doesn't have to My point is it doesn't have to look like meat.
matt: but there is, you know,
Conor Fowler: There's no reason that it has to look like meat. It's looking like meat to make people feel less bad about eating tofu.
matt: Not necessarily. I mean, i i enjoy, you know, a Beyond Burger from time to time or an Impossible sometimes. Like, it's just, in you know...
Conor Fowler: That's this does different than the fucking tofu pup.
matt: How is it different? Like...
Conor Fowler: Because I think the tofu pup is like, it's a tofu hot dog.
matt: I don't know what the tofu pup is, but... Yeah, well, I mean, sometimes you want a hot dog. Like, and if it tastes like a real hot dog, then, you know, it's enjoyable.
Conor Fowler: So, it needs I mean, there's so much bad about hot dogs though, and it's because they're animal products. So like they are carcinogenic because they are animal products. We don't need to make them look like animal products and add carcinogens to them, do we?
matt: Well, I mean, if you're making it out of tofu, it's probably not carcinogenic.
Conor Fowler: But you want to have the whole hot dog experience.
matt: Yeah, because it's because it's something that's like ah reminiscent, nostalgic. I don't know. Like, it's it's comforting. Like,
Conor Fowler: And that's allowed, but I'm saying it's it's it's the wrong thing.
zgb: It's kind of just a big...
Conor Fowler: It's like vegan leather. You're solving a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be solved, I guess.
matt: I don't, I don't conflate those two things at all. Like the vegan leather is, is definitely like, I mean, pleather has been a thing for a long time now.
zgb: Yeah, I think.
matt: It's just called vegan leather, sadly, but like, you know, Hey,
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I guess that's true. But there are new formulations, right? Because, I mean, my brother bought some vegan leather Blundstones and they were like as expensive as Blundstones, but made out of plastic.
matt: yeah. Yeah. I mean,
matt: Solovare does the same thing with their Northampton factory. like I think there's ah there's an entire vegan shoe brand that I think Solovare makes. um Yeah, that's that's not... I don't know.
matt: me Me wanting a hot dog that's that's vegan sometimes is is far less ah harmful, I think, than...
zgb: Yeah, I think just because, well, I mean, hot dogs kind of a in-between example because it is a byproduct, as is leather.
matt: Right, right.
zgb: So I have a ah cousin who has tried every type of dietary thing. She brought tofurkey to Thanksgiving sort of thing. And it's, yeah, it's just really wanting to be included, I guess.
zgb: Yeah. If someone's having a hot dog, you can also want that.
matt: And it's way better than it used to be, I will say.
zgb: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I have a Beyond Burger if they're available just because I don't like eating red meat.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I've eaten all that shit. And like, when I go to talk about, I get the bean stuff.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: You know, and so I'm like not a not a big meat mouth person, but like I just think that it's. um
matt: The...
Conor Fowler: It's a way to get processed foods into people. Right. Rather than eating whole foods like vegetables or fruits or whatever the fuck it is. Right. It still is a processed food.
matt: Well, every every food is processed, unless you literally get it yourself out the ground.
Conor Fowler: And that's bad. Right.
Conor Fowler: Certainly every food is processed, but you know what I'm talking about.
matt: Yeah, yeah. Also, i have to say, this is completely off topic, well, off the show topic, but Taco Bell really fucking dropped the ball on like being late to the vegetarian-vegan game, because it's been a staple for as its entire existence, basically. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's weird though. I mean, I went and had all black bean stuff and it was like great and it was like easy.
matt: Yeah, totally. Yeah, but I'm saying like...
Conor Fowler: They like didn't, I didn't have to say like, could i have beans on that please?
zgb: Yeah,
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: It was like.
matt: I mean, like, they, they you know, ah got beat to the punch by Del Taco doing the Beyond shit, and like, they haven't actually, you know, they barely market as vegetarian or vegan options, and it's like, come on, guys.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Get your head in the game.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. <unk>s though
matt: Anyway, okay, so, wolves.
zgb: isn it was.
Conor Fowler: Thank
zgb: Well, I was going to segue this to what should you do if you get ketchup on your sweater from eating a hot dog.
matt: Resilience.
matt: Oh, yes.
zgb: So I have this, vegan or not vegan. So I have this like, um this handy dandy that I'm going to laminate soon.
zgb: It's the Martha Stewart Living Stain Removal Guide.
matt: Oh, wow.
zgb: And this came with the paper when they were still doing the paper subscriptions of the magazine. Now it's all digital, which I appreciate, again, eco-friendly, but also I just really miss it.
zgb: Because you would get extras like this. And i have a, I follow this team, they're a husband and wife team of paranormal investigators called Dana and Greg Newkirk.
zgb: And Dana is
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah.
matt: I thought you were goingnna say Scully. Right.
zgb: I wish. No. No, they're also, Dana and Greg are also very great. But the, Dana, she talks about when you're doing research, and this is important in any field, I think, you have to get at least two books.
zgb: Like, actual book references. Because now there's so much on the internet that's wrong. And, or if you just get it from AI, like,
zgb: um and
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
zgb: You know, it's just, it's helpful to go back and find, I mean, there are a bunch of books that you can buy that are all about cleaning. There's one on here that they mentioned that really liked.
zgb: I'll have to find it and send it to you. i'll so I'll send you a list of recommendations afterwards, but this little handy dandy thing.
Conor Fowler: i needed your I knew you did your research, though, I mean, ah
zgb: Oh, this is, I've had this for, like, I have a binder.
Conor Fowler: of cleaning stuff.
zgb: this This is the level the level that we're at. Yeah, cleaning and mending stuff that i like I've had since I was a kid just because I have always been really into clothing. So I want want to learn how to take care of it.
zgb: And this in particular. So for ketchup in particular, and we i'll I'll scan this and send it to you.
Conor Fowler: Interesting.
zgb: For sauces, you use a combination solvent. Then using an eyedropper, you flush the white vinegar. You flush the the stain with white vinegar for to get the color out.
zgb: So you you often...
matt: White vinegar is is such an amazing thing to use when you're cleaning clothing. like I didn't start using it until, i don't know, five or six years ago, but like it's it's a game changer.
zgb: That and lemon juice, baking soda, it's it's all stuff that everybody has, just no one remembers how to do it because no one listens to grandma anymore.
matt: Right.
matt: Dawn don Dish Liquid also. Shout out Dawn for cleaning ducts and cleaning clothes.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, Dawn is a big deal.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And you never use Dawn? was going to say, they use it to clean the ducts that they poison with oil.
zgb: Best marketing move ever.
Conor Fowler: Bastards.
matt: Oh, 100%. Oh,
zgb: But um also Dawn makes a die-free version. And that's even better because it, yeah, because I get scared every time I see blue, like,
matt: ah really?
zgb: if I like detergent that's scentless, not because I'm sensitive or anything, but because I wear perfume and I don't want it to clash with my perfume.
matt: got Gotcha, gotcha.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah.
zgb: So i find i found like I find a lot of clear stuff, and Dawn does make a dyeless one, because if I'm putting blue, like a blue washer, on a white something, I get really freaked out.
matt: Right.
matt: I feel it.
zgb: Yeah. So, anyway, I just... I do have this whole list. I won't read the whole thing out, because no one wants to listen to it. I'll send it to you.
matt: Yeah, we'll post it.
zgb: But... Yeah, thank you. And it's it's just so much better for to find, like, even there are these old house wifery guides all over the place and used bookstores and yard sales, estate sales. I see them all the time.
zgb: And those, and just getting back to the basics of that can save you so much money in cleaning bills or or buying something new.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, read a book.
matt: Yeah, my like my
zgb: Read a book.
Conor Fowler: right
zgb: No, Mm-hmm.
matt: my favorite cleaning product is called Biz. I don't know if it's if it's a regional thing, but it's it's basically OxiClean on steroids. um
zgb: mean
matt: And I think that it's been around for like 75 or 80 years. It's an old ass company.
zgb: Yeah, we have borax up here, which is thing for my book.
matt: Yeah, Borac. It's similar. Very similar.
zgb: Yeah. And I also, i don't, it depends on what I'm working with. But I will not, sometimes you just have to say uncle and use bleach, and I, And, you know, that sucks, but if something...
matt: Yeah, yeah.
zgb: A lot of the time, that people use it with shirts, and, like, white shirts, and it will ruin the integrity of the fabric, but it will get that stain out.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's not good. I was going to say my only real tip is like I use an ice cube because I spill shit on myself all the time. It's like ah mango chutney, something serious.
zgb: Oh.
Conor Fowler: I'm eating fucking Gobi Manchuria and it's red shit all over me.
zgb: Oh.
Conor Fowler: And the ice cube really has been my faithful stain remover for a long time. I mean, because it's like spot checking. It's like spot cleaning. You're just dabbing a little bit.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. I think that it works pretty well. And you know, they don't want you to know about it because it's free, basically.
zgb: Yeah, there's that. I mean, I carry a Tide pen with me as well.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I got a Tide pen too.
zgb: um
Conor Fowler: Fortunately, I've never used it
zgb: Yes, it's that's that's for like real emergencies, but I always like, for example, when when I was in college, I had a friend who, total clothes horse, bought really expensive things. Like he was the first person I ever met who we went into Burberry and he just bought $300 shirt, t-shirt.
zgb: And I was like, but what the hell are you doing?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, they're out there.
zgb: Yeah, they're out there.
Conor Fowler: was it Was it all cotton?
zgb: I mean, it you know, I don't know. I think it was, this was like 2010. So it's it very well might've been, but yeah. But at the same time, like I, I let him borrow my Tide pen all the time.
zgb: And one time he came to my dorm room with his tie that he, i think he spilled red wine all over it or something. And he was like trying to soak the entire tie with the Tide pen. And I was like, this this is it so I just took it and I soaked it in like a little basin that I had.
zgb: And he he had he just had no idea. And this guy was paying, I'm sure his local cleaner was mad at me because he was paying to get his ties cleaned. And he was paying them to sew buttons back on.
matt: Oh, wow.
zgb: was like, you are taking...
Conor Fowler: Well, that's a rich person right there.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's a mark.
matt: Yeah.
zgb: Oh my god. I was like, it's... I don't know if it's... Well, I mean, probably. Yeah, definitely.
Conor Fowler: Thank
zgb: There's that cognitive dissonance if you grew up with money, but it also is just like... This is why like when you see a millionaire and then all of his children are useless. Because they just never learned that how to save money.
matt: Right.
zgb: or or to do things for themselves. And that's that's my exhibit A, because yeah, he came for money. But I was just like, come on, bud like Don't use my entire Tide pen on your tie.
Conor Fowler: That's like my friend put a grilled cheese on my mom's stove. Cause he thought it was like a griddle, like his one at his parents' house.
Conor Fowler: So he just put it onto the stove and turned it on.
matt: Oh, no. no
Conor Fowler: And that was that. I mean, luckily the house was not burned down, but like, this is the valedictorian of the school.
zgb: oh no oh yeah but i mean sure does yeah but the point like the point i'm trying to make is just i don't know when you get into clothing it's just especially like even if you are if you have money great you know good for you but also just it's time saving if you can just do it yourself yeah
Conor Fowler: Yes. And that's just, I mean, yeah Takes all kinds.
Conor Fowler: And you want to wear that stuff too. I mean, my dry cleaner sometimes takes a month to get me shit back.
zgb: Right. Yeah. Not even, it's not, if it's not even a cost factor, it's like a, no, I need this button back on my shirt now.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, because I'm fucking dying and i want to wear this shirt, you know. It's imperative.
zgb: And yeah. And to the point of, uh, like particularly dangerous foods like curries, um, we were talking about ramen noodles earlier. I've, I've kind of thrown caution to the wind and I don't care anymore.
zgb: Like, I will put napkins in my shirt and have it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah, you got to have a bib.
zgb: speaker Because I, aye especially with something like ramen noodles or anything involving soy sauce, it's like, I, yeah.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: It's the like tonkatsu like Yeah. yeah
zgb: Yeah. It's just not, i I don't want to take the risk. That's why there napkins.
matt: Yes. My big culprit is coffee. Like every white t-shirt that I have, or like i have a couple of white crew neck sweatshirts and there's coffee sayings on all of them.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: And I have gotten past the point of caring. I'm like, okay, I'm going to drip coffee on myself at some point.
zgb: mm-hmm
Conor Fowler: My mom had this shirt in the 90s that was all like coffee stains, you know, like they make those shirts that are like 50 whatever is and it has like a little thing underneath them.
matt: Oh, that's fucking funny.
Conor Fowler: So I thought it was really funny.
matt: I've never seen that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's like this says you're like late for work coffee stain.
matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's a shirt, it's but it was white too. So it's like really it's fucked now. I mean, I'm sure.
matt: So question for you guys. And I guess, you know, to to get another topic under our belts, how often do you wash your jeans?
matt: And like, you...
zgb: You go first. there
Conor Fowler: I'll go first.
zgb: and
Conor Fowler: Not very often unless they like have a serious odor.
matt: Okay.
matt: So like, okay, maybe maybe I should rephrase. Like, what do you think the approximate wares between washes are for you?
Conor Fowler: Oh, uh, I mean, I may be wearing them two or three times, but I wear jeans a lot.
matt: Yeah, this is true.
zgb: Yeah, or i I have a pair i have i have two pairs of jeans.
matt: Okay.
zgb: both are men's jeans because I can't handle like when I'm wearing jeans it's because I'm doing something that requires them um so usually that's like one or two times depending on how filthy I get doing whatever it was I was doing but for things like corduroy pants or khakis yeah yeah khakis like
matt: Right, right.
matt: Okay.
matt: Right, right. Yeah, I guess we can include all cotton pants.
Conor Fowler: Well, like khakis.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Khakis, I'm wearing them probably once because then they are wrinkled.
zgb: Yeah, or, um, I, yeah, probably one to two times. It really, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Which is shitty, I know, but...
zgb: theres
matt: Right. So you're washing them every, every like two wears essentially.
zgb: Yeah, I'd say about...
Conor Fowler: On cold and hang drying them, yeah.
matt: Okay.
zgb: um'm I'm a little bit less delicate with my khakis, actually. I, um, I do cold, but I also, I put them in the wash. Or in the dryer, rather. Because I, like, I like the feeling of the crispness until I wear them a couple of times, and that's actually how I gauge how many times I should be wearing them. Like, if they feel really misshapen and out of form, that's when I have to wash them again.
matt: Okay. i am I am the antithesis of what everyone would tell you is the way to treat clothing, but I wash and dry everything, and my my entire wardrobe is cotton, essentially.
matt: So, yeah.
zgb: Mm-hmm.
matt: i'm I am a fan of drying because I just don't have the fucking time.
Conor Fowler: what's it's like it snaps the clothes into shape kind of
zgb: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, totally. Totally. And, I mean, honestly, like, from the highest end stuff that I've ever had to like basic, you know, 90s vintage t-shirts. Like I have not had anything fall apart because I've, I've tried it. Like all, all the things that fall apart are from me wearing my clothes into the fucking ground.
zgb: Yeah. And I mean, we we don't have time to get into mending today, but maybe a part two episode would be fun.
matt: Yeah, we should definitely do a part two. Yeah. Part of the reason I wanted to talk about this is because i got into clothing through the like
zgb: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
matt: or I got officially into clothing, let's say through the like raw denim, you know, scene of the early 2000s, which is still going and like, I still, you know, I appreciate it.
Conor Fowler: Thank
matt: But the one of my biggest realizations was the like, where wear these for six months and then wash them is absolutely garbage. Like, that's that is not the way that the cotton should be worn because it, you know, washing it and cleaning it, like it, it stretches out because it's a natural fiber. And then it's, you know, doing that basically makes it, you know, come back into its original form and therefore it lasts longer.
matt: Like, you know, you, you don't wash a pair of pants and you wear them every day or every couple of days for six months, you're going to have a ah hole in the crotch immediately. Like, you know, going to have holes in the knees.
zgb: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
matt: There's just,
Conor Fowler: This is why I'm always having the crotch blowouts. I mean...
matt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like all of us that that came up in that scene, i think it's changed a little bit now, thankfully. But like, you know, all all of us back in the day, we were wearing our APCs and shit. And it's like, oh, cool. I have a hole in the crotch because I've been wearing these every day for three months.
Conor Fowler: You have to give it a bath.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's like your car.
matt: it like
Conor Fowler: You have to give it a bath.
matt: Yeah, yeah. The friction, you know, the the way that the way that Cotton is is made is you know, not intuitively all that strong if you if it's just continually stretching out.
zgb: yeah and it i mean getting into denim bro territory it depends on the weave it depends on there are so many factors that go into that but the another thing i'd like to bring up too is like when you're wearing sweaters like when it's time for layers let's say one thing that we've i think we've forgotten just because it's been getting warmer out uh every year and um just the way that fashion has kind of
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: you
zgb: settled into the mainstream is that we don't wear many layers anymore or we don't we just don't think about it and way back when i mean you don't find a lot of underclothes from early periods because that's what they would wear as their foundation garment so whenever like today when i'm wearing i don't want to wear a colored shirt because i just don't want to deal with that so i'm wearing long sleeve cotton t-shirt underneath my sweater and thereby i don't really have to wear I don't have to wash my sweater for this wear.
Conor Fowler: It's a barrier.
zgb: Does that make sense?
matt: Right, right.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's a barrier.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's a sweat barrier. Yeah, it's great.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And that's what I'm, that's ah the layering thing is great.
zgb: And that's why... Mhm.
Conor Fowler: Giuseppe is doing this too with the like little mock neck under with the sweater. It's good stuff.
zgb: Yeah, and I, I mean, one style tip for people who are just getting into this, if you are going to the point where you you do wear button-up shirts and you wear a jacket and you do the whole thing, just make sure you get a v-neck cotton shirt if you really want to wear it as an undergarment because I see people do that all the time who are just trying to be so fly but they have the little crew neck looking out and just like, oh, honey.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's my only published piece of work ever. In the UMBC, the Retriever Weekly magazine, I wrote in an article about undershirts. You got to have the V-neck because you don't want to be, as you said, you don't want to be the white neck plebe.
matt: Or if you're if you're nasty with it, you get the A shirt. Like my my grandpa used to wear.
Conor Fowler: Right. Right, right. But I feel like that doesn't that doesn't serve as an undershirt in many ways.
matt: I mean, technically, it's probably inferior.
Conor Fowler: Well, like the main benefit of and of the undershirt, I would think, is the perspiration angle.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: And the A shirt doesn't do that at all.
matt: Oh, for sure. For sure.
Conor Fowler: I'm sure it was cool as shit, but I mean, A shirt is, i don't know. yeah I feel like it's like a fashion garment these days.
matt: Right, right.
zgb: ah So I'm a little off on my terms here. Is the A-shirt like a wife beater or...
Conor Fowler: the life appreciator.
matt: The wife pleaser, as Renato coined.
zgb: Yes, okay.
matt: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the best euphemism I've ever heard in my life.
zgb: I have it. No problem.
matt: Wife pleaser.
zgb: The wife pleaser. Oh. i'm I'm rewatching Sopranos right now, so I just have so many images flying through my mind of Tony Soprano in A Wife Pleaser. like, hmm.
matt: Yeah, yeah, it's the it's the old school way, that's for sure.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And he never does.
zgb: Well, i been what I was thinking of as well is that I've seen coming back, surprisingly, are the tight weave fishnet shirts.
Conor Fowler: Thank you.
matt: Oh, yeah. ah My buddy Matt's brand Factors had a bunch of vintage ones that he sourced. i think I think they were Belgian, like army undershirts or something. and I can't remember the exact country, but like they're not for me. But when I saw people rocking them I was like, that's cool shit.
zgb: Well, yeah, but I mean, those are like, if you think of Marlon Brando in Streetcar, like he's wearing those as his foundational garment.
matt: Right, right.
zgb: And during summer or just being in New Orleans, that makes a lot of sense. So you can still have your your foundational undergarment and wear a shirt over it.
matt: Oh, 100%.
zgb: but you don't have to wash your shirt so many times. Unless you're just a really sweaty dude. And, you know, respect. They're out there. It happens.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Brando's a swarthy guy.
zgb: Who?
Conor Fowler: Brando?
zgb: Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry, I misheard.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Okay.
zgb: Who's that?
matt: So I think another part of of this discussion could be the ring around the collar that we've all dealt with over the years.
zgb: um
zgb: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, what?
zgb: Yeah, that's another instance in which I use bleach very sparingly if it's tough. What you do, I mean, you can get an eyedropper, but you can also just use, I mean, this is this is last resort. I'll start at last resort, and then I'll like work my way up.
zgb: um Like, using a Q-tip and dipping it in the bleach and kind of painting over where you want it to be, letting it sit, and then washing it. as normal with other whites.
matt: Right. What do you do if it's not a white oxford?
zgb: know what No other colors.
matt: Or like a white shirt? Okay.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
zgb: That I would use hydrogen peroxide in a similar way.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
zgb: I'd dab that. um You can also... Hold on, if I have to consult my handy dandy pamphlet. it um Sweat is like just completely very difficult anyway.
matt: Yeah. Pit stains the worst.
zgb: the worst. And even even good old Martha, like, she, it's low, low recoverability.
matt: Yes, yes.
zgb: But yeah, you're supposed to, you can, um, uh, soak them, I'd soak them first.
Conor Fowler: you.
zgb: Here they recommend using salt water for protein-based. Um, and then you can flush it with vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, with an eyedropper or a
zgb: or and a q-tip so and then just kind of let it soak again and just see what happens unfortunately
matt: Something I'd, oh, keep keep going.
zgb: i was just going to say there's also like you have there are bars specific bars now bars of soap I can't think of any brands right now that are just for cuffs and collars yeah and you just you you rub it on do a similar thing where like I'd soak it first and then I'd rub on
matt: Oh, interesting. Yeah.
zgb: some of those, even just bar soap, like PEARS bar soap is really good because it's glycerin based and it's, it's die well it's not dye free but it's it won't come off on your clothing so anything anything that you can use I'd say like that would not be corrosive on your own skin
matt: Right.
matt: Right, right.
matt: Yes.
matt: Right. Something I used to do when I was in a shirt and tie every day and I was doing my you know weekly washing of my seven shirts that i or six shirts that I had Um, and I might've like put this on in my and you know, they might've posted something about this years ago, but I would take dish liquid, you know, sprinkle a little bit on the collar and then like take, take all the sides and rub them together. And so that friction with the soap, like ended up breaking down the the sweat that was on the collar and, came out in the wash immediately.
zgb: Yeah. and Also, think about saving toothbrushes.
matt: Oh yeah, totally, totally.
zgb: Because, yeah, if if you go to your dentist every six months and get your teeth cleaned like you should, you're going to have a bunch of toothbrushes stacking up.
zgb: And, yeah, I mean, they're great for spot cleaning.
matt: They're great for spot cleaning too.
zgb: They're great for, also, one thing to do for wools or any kind of fiber like that is to brush them.
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: yeah they like that i just bought a garment brush
zgb: Yeah, and that can be used for surface stains especially. Many of the the stained things I find in vintage bins or whatever are just surface stains and can come out very easily.
matt: I mean,
zgb: But um yeah yeah, cuffs and collars, that's always that's always tough. any Any kind of sweat, especially if it's baked in, just say your prayers.
Conor Fowler: Or, you know, you got adopt my lifestyle of sedentary anti-work.
zgb: ah That helps too.
Conor Fowler: Um,
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, and then you just, as long as you're sedentary, you're not sweating, baby. That's what I'm saying.
matt: Yeah, I stopped wearing deodorant like, I don't know, 15 years ago or something. And part of that was because, you know, natural deodorant, in my opinion, has never done anything for me.
matt: um And then, you know, the the chemical laden shit is part of the reason why you get, you know, ah pit stains and things. So.
zgb: Mhm.
Conor Fowler: It's the aluminum.
matt: Yeah, it
zgb: Mhm. I always think that.
Conor Fowler: Price- part that's the other part of my article is that it's the fucking aluminum so you just buy deodorant and not antiperspirant then it will be fine and you will not have as pronounced pit stains, but your antiperspirant is actually making them worse.
matt: Yeah.
matt: And I, honestly, I've never got once gotten to complain on how I smell.
Conor Fowler: Price-
matt: So I'm, I'm cool with just raw dog and that shit.
Conor Fowler: You heard it here first.
matt: Anyway. ah yeah, we're, we're, man, we only got through a little bit of what we were going to talk about, but, uh,
Conor Fowler: That's the whole show. I so i think that's what happens every time.
matt: Yeah, it's true. It's true. We didn't even talk about how shitty non-iron fabrics are, which is a hill I will forever die on. But, uh...
zgb: I think we all agree on that.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, if that's non-iron, it's polyester.
matt: Well, no, no, no. Non-iron, like, the 100% cotton, you know, Brooks Brothers.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
matt: Because...
Conor Fowler: I always thought that that's treated. Uh... that's treated
matt: It's treated with what's essentially formaldehyde. And I can't think of anything... more disgusting to put on my skin than something that like a dead person is embalmed in.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you put it, when you put it that way,
matt: yeah. yeah like I ain't dead yet. I don't need this on me.
Conor Fowler: and if you are wearing one of those, wrinkle free shirts, you look like a fucking corpse anyway.
matt: You heard it here first. But yeah, Zoe, this has been great. And we'll have to have you back on to talk about mending and maybe some shoe care and and things of that nature.
zgb: Yeah, I mean, that could be part three.
matt: Yeah, there we go.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I think shoes would be good.
zgb: Shoes are a whole thing up to themselves.
matt: There we go. Yeah, I think we could talk for an hour about, you know, basically everything ah dealing with clothing maintenance. So, well, yeah, this will be the first of a series.
zgb: It just depends on my... Yeah, depends on how much content you need from me.
matt: all All of it. All of it. You're always welcome. But ah yeah, so um let's give you a chance to shout yourself out and where people can find you and what you're up to.
zgb: Thank you. my name is Zoe. I go by ZG Burnett on pretty much every platform. I'm on Instagram, pretty active on Instagram. I have a sub stack that I'm keeping up closely weekly.
zgb: The substack is working better. The Patreon's just for the um preppy witch tarot that I've been doing.
matt: Oh, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: The sub stack is fucking legit. I mean, i read that as, as it is published.
zgb: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: I read that shit. So keep it up.
zgb: really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I, um... Yeah, it's it's fun. it's i mean, I...
Conor Fowler: It's well written. It's like, fuck. And I was going to talk about your thing with the gravestone too.
zgb: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that... um yeah
Conor Fowler: That whole saga I thought was fascinating.
matt: Well, let's talk about it.
zgb: Thanks.
Conor Fowler: Well, if we've got, if Zoe's got to go, then Zoe's got to go.
zgb: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, sure.
Conor Fowler: But if you've got a minute, I don't know.
zgb: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's up to you.
zgb: So I'm actually going to be talking about this on another podcast pretty soon.
matt: ah Okay. Gotcha. Yeah,
zgb: I talked...
Conor Fowler: Oh, us we see how it is.
zgb: to i It's...
Conor Fowler: Okay.
zgb: ah Yeah, they... they called dibs. Also, it's called Obsessed with Death, so it's a little bit different as far as...
matt: there you go.
Conor Fowler: No, no, no.
matt: There you go.
Conor Fowler: It's totally fine. um
matt: Yeah. but The last thing I'll say is I look forward to your Sunday research post every week. So yeah, I very much enjoy this.
zgb: Thank you. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. Yeah.
matt: And also your your dog, of course.
zgb: Thanks.
zgb: Oh, Oreo. he's He's over on the bed right now sleeping. I'm surprised
matt: Bye.
Conor Fowler: You're a good writer. and You're like a good narrative writer.
zgb: Thanks, because that's what I, I mean, one one other shout out is Antiques in the Arts Weekly where is where you can find my actual work.
Conor Fowler: you
zgb: Under ZG Burnett, I cover shows from just up and down the East Coast and auctions and things like that. So that's my main gig.
zgb: But otherwise, it's just Instagram and Substack.
matt: Everyone, yeah, get give Zoe a follow. And yeah, one more time, thank you for coming back on. well
zgb: Yeah, this was fun.
matt: yeah We'll continue our quest to maintain our clothing very soon.
zgb: Great, I look forward to it.
matt: Everyone, thank you for listening. ah We are at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram. Please give us a follow if you're on Instagram. Apocalypse Studs at gmail.com.
matt: if you want to send us an email or a meme or something interesting, anything really. ah Um, but yeah, I am math at rebels rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I am Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler.
matt: And we will see you next Wednesday.
Conor Fowler: ah didly Do do do.
