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Clothing Alchemy with Z.G. Burnett
118 Plays2 days ago
This week, we are so happy to finally welcome ZG Burnett back into the studio. In part 1 of an undetermined number series about clothing care. We talk about general clothing maintenance, the allure of natural fibers, how to choose fabrics, stain removal, high-end brands cutting corners, washing tweed jackets, and so much more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Focus
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Apocalypse Duds. i am your host, Connor Fowler, and Actually, wait, it's Matt's turn right now.
00:00:12
matt
And I am Matt Smith.
00:00:13
Conor Fowler
And I have prepared such a great hour of clean fun for you. As they say in the biz, a blue routine or something.
00:00:24
Conor Fowler
ah And so we got a lot of good jokes, not a lot of profanity on this episode, ladies and gentlemen, these and thems.
00:00:31
matt
yeah We'll fucking see about that.
00:00:33
Conor Fowler
Right. So going to be talking today about cleaning clothing and clothing care with a dear friend of the program, Zoe G. Burnett, who has been on here before. um Welcome.
00:00:48
matt
Yeah, thanks for coming back.
Dressing for Winter in New England
00:00:50
zgb
Thanks for having me back, guys.
00:00:52
matt
Yeah, yeah. I feel like this...
00:00:53
Conor Fowler
How couldn't how couldn't we
00:00:55
matt
Yeah, exactly. ah This also seems like a different kind of show than we've done before, which is kind of exciting. And so, yeah, it'll it'll be nice to have a concentrated topic.
00:01:03
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:01:08
matt
Although I'm sure we'll still go on tangents and shit. But, yeah.
00:01:11
zgb
Oh, yeah.
00:01:11
Conor Fowler
but it should be more informative than usual.
00:01:14
matt
Yes. To get started, Zoe, how are you?
00:01:18
zgb
I'm doing alright. It's February in New England, which means it reached negative zero Fahrenheit the other night.
00:01:25
matt
Ooh, yeah.
00:01:27
zgb
I'm appropriately dressed for it in many layers of wool.
00:01:30
matt
Right.
00:01:31
zgb
So...
00:01:31
matt
At least in the Northeast, like, ah cities know how to handle snow and ice and shit, as opposed to, like, down south, for the most part.
00:01:40
zgb
For the most part, but everyone
00:01:40
Conor Fowler
or even here in Maryland.
00:01:44
zgb
But at one point, I mean, especially during the first big storms, people just completely forget how to drive in snow.
00:01:50
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:01:51
zgb
And it's for those of us who have grown up in this, in a blizzard, it's just like, stay home.
00:01:58
matt
Right.
Driving in Snow: Challenges and Experiences
00:02:00
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:02
Conor Fowler
And it's basically not hard if you aren't speeding.
00:02:03
zgb
Yeah.
00:02:07
zgb
Right.
00:02:08
Conor Fowler
which is like the main thing to not do is drive fast.
00:02:08
matt
Yeah.
00:02:13
matt
On one of the, like, it might've been the first like full on winter tour that I did.
00:02:13
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:02:17
matt
And one of my old bands, like we played we played boston or we played i think haverall stayed in boston and then drove to portland maine the next day for a show and i legit had to drive through a fucking blizzard and that was one of the most terrifying things of my life like by the time we got to the venue the uh headlights had frozen over with ice yeah real fun
00:02:38
zgb
Wow. Hat off to you. Yeah. that That's rough. That is a rough drive.
00:02:43
matt
yes yes um
00:02:45
Conor Fowler
I think it's always i mean, because Maine has like two roads, right? More or less like two arterial roads.
00:02:51
zgb
Yeah, unless you want to make...
00:02:51
matt
Yeah, pretty much.
00:02:54
Conor Fowler
So it's like, you're either coming or going.
00:02:54
zgb
Mhm.
Clothing Care: Hang Drying and Material Choices
00:03:02
Conor Fowler
But we do have some ideas about how to do this. I figured first we would we would sort of talk about stuff that is common knowledge kind of to us um that is not actually conventional wisdom. I mean, I think something like drying your clothes is not as advisable as you might think, um which is to say using a clothing dryer to dry them, not hang dry them or what have you. um
00:03:34
Conor Fowler
But that would be my suggestion anyway, because you really can live a wrinkle-free, relatively wrinkle-free life if you are not drying your clothes in the machine.
00:03:47
Conor Fowler
If you hang dry them. People don't believe me about this, but it's really the truth.
00:03:49
zgb
For the most part. Yeah. Well, it depends on the level of wrinkle-free you want to be, I suppose.
00:03:57
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:03:59
zgb
Because some people like the knife-edge military flatness. of their shirts and their trousers, which I just can't commit to.
00:04:05
Conor Fowler
And, and how do they even do it? How do they even manage it? I don't understand. I know that you and I have spoken about this ironing before and like it, I have done the cost benefit analysis basically. And like, it's way better to hang dry your shit than it is to ever touch an iron.
00:04:24
Conor Fowler
But I agree that it's nice to have a crease.
00:04:24
zgb
Yeah.
00:04:27
zgb
Sure. Yeah, and it's that's fine, but also i many things should be hang dried anyway, depending on what you're wearing.
00:04:35
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Basically.
00:04:36
zgb
um I guess we should kind of start with that. I think material is so important, especially when buying clothing. And now, number one.
00:04:47
zgb
Just because anything you buy that's synthetic or Essentially, I'm just calling it plastic clothes now because they keep coming up with new words.
00:04:54
matt
Yes, yes.
00:04:56
zgb
They're all like viscose, polyester. It's all the same thing. It's plastic.
00:05:03
Conor Fowler
basically
00:05:04
zgb
So you're not going to have a great time trying to conserve or clean any of that. But if you buy things that are of more durable material, like cotton, wool, linen, or a blend of the two,
00:05:21
zgb
If you can. i know I know it can get a little bit more expensive, but at the same time, it's just it's so much more worth it because you won't have to buy the same thing in a year.
00:05:31
matt
Right, right. The only thing i feel like gets a pass for being polyester is fleece.
00:05:38
zgb
Yeah, sure. Because you're not washing that all the time.
00:05:39
Conor Fowler
And that's very that's very purposed, right?
00:05:39
matt
Yeah.
00:05:41
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:05:41
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's like the point of the fleece is that it keeps the heat in because it's plastic.
00:05:42
matt
Right, right.
00:05:46
Conor Fowler
So this is what I think, like a lot of people complain about sweating a lot.
00:05:47
matt
Totally. Totally.
00:05:47
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:05:52
Conor Fowler
And i am not having that complaint because I'm wearing cotton and wool, you know? So it's like,
The Vintage Clothing Market and Fabric Quality Concerns
00:06:00
Conor Fowler
I'm not wearing a plastic bag over my body and not expecting it to perspire, which is really what it is.
00:06:06
matt
Yeah. I tried to cut out polyester outside of fleece like a fucking long time ago because every time I would wear like even a 50-50 t-shirt, you know, I could shower in the morning and an hour and a half later, I'm like, what the fuck? Why do I smell?
00:06:21
Conor Fowler
when they just feel so yucky.
00:06:24
zgb
Yeah, and I know it's different for workout clothing because of the sweat wicking technology. I'm not talking about, we're not talking about workout clothing today. Just ready to wear, but
00:06:33
matt
No, no, no. we're we're We're talking about Timu and She-In type clothing.
00:06:39
zgb
Yeah, and well, even honestly, I've seen so many brands that are traditionally higher end or more expensive brands recently, especially you don't get as much in menswear, but in womenswear, definitely. They've been cutting corners as far as fabric production is concerned. For example, there are t-shirts at Barber now.
00:07:02
zgb
Why? i don't know. But they, in the women's t-shirts, it's, think it's like 2% elastane along with the cotton. It's just like, they're still, you know,
00:07:13
Conor Fowler
And people see that as like, that's like a performance t-shirt.
00:07:15
matt
And I really, oh, God.
00:07:18
Conor Fowler
That's like, you know what I mean? That's not like, people are not thinking about that in the same way, which is really that it's like, I think this is correct. The manufacturer has ripped me off by including 1% elastane and not 1% cotton.
00:07:31
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:07:33
zgb
Right, because the the fabric is more expensive, but it's also screen printed, so it's not going to retain the pattern whatever pattern it is or design.
00:07:42
matt
Right.
00:07:43
zgb
And then it's it's going to be more difficult to clean, and eventually it will stretch out because the fiber content will distribute unevenly.
00:07:55
matt
Right.
00:07:56
zgb
So, that but yeah, it's it's just a lot of that, but the shirts are still $80 a t-shirt.
00:08:01
Conor Fowler
I bet they are.
00:08:02
zgb
for a teacher Yeah, so it...
00:08:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Well, they've got to like diversify, right? They've got to have like barber coffee cups and stuff. Wax cotton mugs.
00:08:09
zgb
I'd rather a coffee cup. Yeah.
00:08:12
Conor Fowler
Oh, for sure. Then an $80 t-shirt. Yeah. I mean, that has no utility at all.
00:08:17
zgb
Yeah, and I shouldn't, I don't pick on Barber, I still love them, but it's it's it's everywhere. It's in so many brands, and it's so, I don't know, it's just tiring. Yeah.
00:08:28
matt
It really is, especially like, you know, if you think about it, one does 1% really, i guess if you're making at a certain scale, it saves money, but like, does it, does it actually?
00:08:29
zgb
Yeah.
00:08:40
zgb
It must, otherwise I don't and i don't know why they'd do it.
00:08:44
matt
Yeah.
00:08:44
Conor Fowler
I think want that like a weird elastic feeling like they want it to be, I think that's the idea, right? Is this like this performance fabric, look at it move.
00:08:58
Conor Fowler
ah
00:08:59
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:08:59
Conor Fowler
But
Sustainable Fashion: Vegan Leather vs. Traditional Materials
00:09:00
Conor Fowler
it's not, right? It doesn't.
00:09:02
Conor Fowler
Well, I guess it does. It's it's sweaty, though.
00:09:02
zgb
No, it's...
00:09:05
zgb
Yeah, and it might just provide a little bit more stretch, but if it's a box fit t-shirt, I don't really see the point.
00:09:12
matt
Right, right.
00:09:12
Conor Fowler
it doesn't make sense at all.
00:09:14
matt
Yeah. It makes me think of like the, what is it?
00:09:15
zgb
But...
00:09:18
matt
That like, oh, that the like like polyester that was made to you know feel like satin back in the day.
00:09:19
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:09:28
zgb
Oh yeah. Well, that's yeah that's what Viscos is like. um And yeah, and all that.
00:09:31
matt
Yeah.
00:09:33
zgb
And I mean... i Again, i understand the re like the reasoning behind buying East Coast and not skip the silk, because it's probably a third of the cost, or a fourth.
00:09:44
matt
Right, right.
00:09:45
zgb
But at the same time, it's like, that will that will run immediately.
00:09:52
Conor Fowler
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:09:52
matt
Yes, yes.
00:09:52
zgb
And... Hold on, I was going somewhere else. Oh, and this the thing, and I see this a lot, especially
Wool Garment Maintenance and Stain Removal Tips
00:10:00
zgb
with patterned dresses in... indie brands, high-end brands. I remember i remember seeing it most in mod cloth when that first came out.
00:10:09
matt
Yeah.
00:10:09
zgb
And all these adorable dresses, and they're, at that time, they were only like $50 to $75. They weren't very expensive. But of course, everything has gone up now, but they're still polyester prints.
00:10:22
zgb
So, I don't know.
00:10:22
matt
Right,
00:10:25
zgb
It's just, it's we talk about conscious consumerism all the time, and
00:10:26
Conor Fowler
It's, it's, it's,
00:10:31
zgb
I don't think that means so much like the buy best or well, yeah, the buy better, buy less that everyone's talking about all the time.
00:10:38
matt
right.
00:10:39
zgb
i think it's just, it's just also knowing what you're buying because there are some, there are some brands.
00:10:39
matt
right
00:10:44
matt
For sure.
00:10:45
Conor Fowler
so e six its
00:10:47
matt
And I will say it like as a person that, you know, makes my living selling vintage, um, I'll, you know, I'll buy vintage like polyester button ups or, you know, something like that from the seventies, if they're cool as shit.
00:10:47
zgb
Go on. Okay.
00:10:58
matt
Um, and
Washing Habits and Clothing Longevity Strategies
00:11:00
matt
I've, I've realized in my friends that sell women's wear too, like they sell polyester dresses from the seventies and sixties and whatnot, but like some people just generally don't care.
00:11:11
matt
And it kind of I don't know.
00:11:11
zgb
Yeah.
00:11:11
matt
It blows my mind.
00:11:13
Conor Fowler
They don't care about the composition, you mean?
00:11:15
matt
Yeah, they they don't care about wearing like 100% polyester, you know, vintage dress. Like, there's nothing wrong with it, obviously, but like, it would just, I don't know, it would make me wearing like a poly button down would make me so fucking grossed out.
00:11:30
Conor Fowler
yeah it's uh no no no it's suffocating
00:11:30
zgb
Yeah, i have one. go on. Sorry.
00:11:35
zgb
It is. I have one that I bought. ah It's this Italian maker from the 70s, and I got it from a fellow vintage dealer. it i wouldn't have normally, but it is a knockoff, like, pirated Italian print of a Edward Gorey lineup, like his characters.
00:11:57
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:11:59
zgb
So, of course, I was just like, here's yeah money here.
00:11:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:12:02
zgb
But I only wear it a few times.
00:12:03
Conor Fowler
That's awesome.
00:12:05
zgb
I've i've only worn it a few times because it's like you get sweaty and I have to get it like I actually have to get that dry cleaned. I won't touch it with my own stuff because it's too dangerous.
00:12:15
matt
Right.
00:12:17
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:12:17
zgb
So the amount of times I can actually wear it is limited for that reason.
00:12:23
matt
Totally.
00:12:23
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's just not as resilient. It's not as like, and it's odd you because you would think kind of, oh, this artificial fiber is more resilient, is like tougher than the natural shit because we humans made it.
00:12:39
Conor Fowler
Not so.
00:12:41
zgb
Yeah, and I mean, when we go back to all the synthetic production, it was all post-World War postw worldd war two I believe, where yeah where they were trying to make these um these new these new age future vision type fabrics, which led to
00:12:50
Conor Fowler
DuPont.
00:12:50
matt
Yes.
00:12:58
Conor Fowler
Thank
Conclusion and Guest's Social Media and Projects
00:13:01
zgb
a lot of this mess, because the clothing back then was all natural fibers because that was all they had.
00:13:02
matt
Yes.
00:13:07
zgb
But now that we're seeing the damage that it's doing just environmentally with creating it and then discarding it, I hope that some i hope that some designers are coming around to this.
00:13:18
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:13:20
zgb
And I know some are. I mean, in in our sphere of menswear, definitely.
00:13:25
matt
Certainly.
00:13:26
zgb
But yeah, it's it's just it's so concerning.
00:13:26
matt
Certainly.
00:13:29
zgb
And it will always be whether I'm buying vintage or new if i'm If I see something and I like it and, you know, it's fairly expensive, i if I look at the content and it's a blend or 100% plastic, I'm not buying it.
00:13:48
zgb
Because I know it it's cheaper to make.
00:13:48
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I'm not buying that shit.
00:13:51
zgb
Yeah, just's just it just doesn't make sense to me.
00:13:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:13:53
zgb
But you're right, I have friends who are definitely disposable Primark shoppers. And it it irks me to no end, but that's just the way they are.
00:14:03
matt
Yeah, thank thankfully I don't have a whole lot of those friends.
00:14:03
zgb
They don't they don't care.
00:14:05
matt
it's It's kind of great.
00:14:06
zgb
Yeah.
00:14:06
matt
yeah
00:14:07
zgb
This, yeah.
00:14:07
Conor Fowler
it's just It's just weird.
00:14:11
matt
Yeah, I mean, I know I've said it before, but like, you know, ah in a thrift store, inevitably you see fuckload of Shein stuff these days. And like, you know, it gives me, it gives me like a dry heaving type sensation when I touch it.
00:14:26
matt
I'm just like, holy fuck, that's the grossest thing I've felt in a very long time.
00:14:28
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:14:31
Conor Fowler
It's exactly like that. I mean, it's like, it's the worst of the worst plastic combined.
00:14:38
matt
Right, right. Yeah, cheap fleece and dry-cleaned denim give me that same same kind of vibe.
00:14:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:14:47
zgb
Dry clean denim?
00:14:47
Conor Fowler
do
00:14:48
matt
Yeah, like like down in the South, of course, people, you know, wranglers are are probably the predominant gene, I would say. And so, like, a lot of old-timers will have their jeans dry-cleaned.
00:15:01
matt
And it's like like, you can slice a piece.
00:15:01
zgb
Oh, OK.
00:15:03
Conor Fowler
with the with the crease pressed in
00:15:04
matt
Yeah, with a crease pressed in, and you could slice a fucking pizza with that thing.
00:15:08
Conor Fowler
which i think is so hardcore i just bought those white jeans they have a crease in them ha yeah dude and your face is exactly how i'm ah feeling about it like i was on ebay and i was like
00:15:15
zgb
This is a new cultural development to me.
00:15:24
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:15:25
zgb
That's very exciting.
00:15:25
Conor Fowler
And they did turn out.
00:15:25
zgb
i'm happy for you.
00:15:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah, they turned out. I mean, I'm probably gonna be wearing them all the time.
00:15:30
matt
man You got to give me credit for, convin well, me and Jamal credit for convincing you to get white jeans.
00:15:35
Conor Fowler
i wasn't, I wasn't thinking of they they were a bad idea. But I was convinced into it.
00:15:42
matt
Right, right. Okay, yeah.
00:15:44
Conor Fowler
There was some advisement happening.
00:15:45
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:15:46
Conor Fowler
I mean,
00:15:47
matt
Yeah, we had 25%, know, ah like part of that
00:15:54
Conor Fowler
I'll give you a quarter, sure. um So we can continue talking about natural fibers. I mean, I think wool is probably the next thing, um which we haven't really talked about all that much. I mean, it weirdly, my great-grandmother was a wool scientist in the nineteen forty s and fifty s um Yeah, she went to Smith College where her mother was the cook.
00:16:25
Conor Fowler
And so she got to go to the school for free. And so she became a scientist studying wool. I know relatively little. I mean, I feel like I should turn this over. um But when people say that it is a magic fabric, fiber, whatever, I mean, it really, really is.
00:16:46
Conor Fowler
so
00:16:47
zgb
It is. And I mean, it's a shame now that there really has been such a dig to the wool production, like just the wool industry.
00:16:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:16:55
zgb
That's why you don't see as you don't see as many sheep anymore, because people just aren't buying wool as much as they used to.
00:16:58
matt
Right.
00:17:02
zgb
I mean, yet most of, again, you see sweaters that are blended with either other things or just blended with plastic. And I mean, I'm not talking like, I know like bean sweaters, the Norwegian knits have been wool and nylon for ever but that's not it's not so much what i'm talking about i'm talking about like new productions of especially again women's wear because there are so many more styles coming out every single day for a women's line versus men's men's line that it's really like harmful and the wool industry is in danger of disappearing entirely
00:17:28
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:17:38
matt
Right. I mean, I would imagine that like tailored clothing companies and brands are like one of the, one of the things keeping it at least like floating right now.
00:17:48
zgb
who
00:17:49
matt
And like, I, you know, we, we could talk ad nauseum about like tailored clothing disappearing and you know, whatever. And like, or it coming back, like who the fuck knows at this point.
00:18:01
zgb
her Yeah, well, even beyond tailored clothing, I'm just thinking of, I mean, sweaters.
00:18:03
Conor Fowler
you
00:18:08
zgb
it's um I go back to sweaters and like sweater dresses and things like that just because that's around this time everyone... digs them out or they go shopping for them and even places like Bean now are just so just not cognizant of the things that they are making. I mean, we've'm I'm sure we've talked about Bean hundred times and how disappointing it is as a company.
00:18:32
matt
Yeah, I'm
00:18:32
zgb
but
00:18:33
Conor Fowler
no do you know, are they owned by someone else? Or they they are they're just doing this their own........................
00:18:42
matt
I don't think they're owned by private equity. I could be wrong.
00:18:47
zgb
They, I think they went public because they're no longer, it's, the um must be a decade or so since they no longer, I mean, they don't produce in New England anymore.
00:19:00
matt
Right, right. They still make, they make the boots there.
00:19:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Well, so of course it's hard to find.
00:19:01
zgb
They, yeah.
00:19:04
matt
Right.
00:19:07
zgb
No, they, um I think they, well, they outsource to different companies.
00:19:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:19:11
zgb
I know for a while that Quote up in Maine was doing their but their boots.
00:19:16
matt
Right. Yeah,
00:19:16
zgb
like private label. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I, like, I have not been shopping there for a very long time.
00:19:23
matt
yeah I'm looking at their website for the first time and I don't even know how long and like
00:19:24
zgb
Just because.
00:19:26
Conor Fowler
Oh boy. ah It was it was disclosed in 2016 that Linda being one of the descendants of founder Leonard lean Leanwood being sits on the board of directors has donated $60,000 to a pack that supported Donald Trump's 2016 campaign.
00:19:42
Conor Fowler
Yes, that's probably enough of that Wikipedia.
00:19:42
zgb
Aw, man.
00:19:44
Conor Fowler
but
00:19:45
zgb
Oh, yeah, let's not.
00:19:45
matt
Thank you.
00:19:47
Conor Fowler
um
00:19:47
zgb
um Gives me another reason not to shop there.
00:19:50
Conor Fowler
Well, so I'll use my own shit today as an example. Like I'm wearing a wool tweed jacket. I have this cotton sweater vest on and I have this cotton Oxford on, which is not actually an OCBD. I think it's poplin.
00:20:08
Conor Fowler
But the point is I'm wearing all this shit and I'm not sweating. because it's all natural. So I feel like it has a reverse insulating property when you are trying to stay cool and vice versa, right?
00:20:16
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:20:29
Conor Fowler
Like it's insulating in both, in both directions, if that makes sense.
00:20:33
zgb
Right. Sure. And yeah, I mean, that's why would we have so many different gauges and weights for wool or cashmere even.
00:20:41
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:20:42
zgb
i mean, i I still get too warm wearing cashmere sometimes, but Other than that, it's, yeah, I mean, similarly, I'm wearing a wool sweater that is actually from Barber. I shouldn't throw stones. But, yeah, it's, yeah, and the only reason why I bought this particular one was because it was the only sweater that I could find in, like, at that time that was 100% wool. It didn't have any blends. And that's in the men's section, too.
00:21:10
matt
Right.
00:21:10
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:21:10
zgb
um
00:21:11
zgb
So I, yeah, and I have a an old vintage wool black watch skirt on and a cotton,
00:21:19
zgb
cotton t t-shirt underneath, cotton bandana from s Sable, New York, by the way, if you for all your but bandana enthusiasts out there, check them out.
00:21:28
matt
Sable.
00:21:29
zgb
Sable, New York City, I think they're called.
00:21:29
matt
Okay.
00:21:32
zgb
Yeah, they come to Al Fargo's every now and again, and their bandanas are really cool, just really neat designs.
00:21:38
matt
cool.
00:21:38
Conor Fowler
I'll definitely check that out because I have some that I never wear, but I like them.
00:21:43
zgb
I wear them a lot during the winter, because if I don't, want to go through the trouble of wearing a button down, i'll I'll just put it around my neck so I'm not allergic to wool or anything, but sometimes it does get a little bit abrasive.
00:21:55
Conor Fowler
Itchy.
00:21:56
zgb
So yeah, the that way I can just wear a long sleeve tee and bandana underneath and it's fine.
00:22:03
Conor Fowler
Smart maneuver.
00:22:05
matt
So let's let's talk about, ah you guys are both fans of sweaters, proper sweaters.
00:22:05
zgb
I do best.
00:22:10
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:22:10
matt
I am not. um But, you know, I think one of the things that, like, makes people wary about wearing, like, 100% wool things or, like, wool mohair, cashmere, et cetera, is, like, the maintenance of it.
00:22:27
matt
Like, oh, like i you know i can I can only wear this like once
00:22:27
zgb
who
00:22:33
matt
you know once or twice a month or else I'm going to have to clean it immediately. And it's like, no, that's that kind of kind of defeats the purpose of wool.
00:22:39
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:42
matt
So what are what are your guys you know kind of like tips and tricks and thoughts on the resilience of wool?
00:22:51
zgb
It depends on the wool. I don't know, Connor, would you like to go first?
00:22:55
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I will. um So I was going to say the thing that Matt says about not washing it all the fucking time is right. Definitely don't wash it or maybe not. Definitely don't wash it in a washing machine. You probably don't wash it in a washing machine. Maybe you wash it by hand, depending on how delicate it is. It really just depends. um I think that.
00:23:19
Conor Fowler
Don't put it on a hanger.
00:23:21
Conor Fowler
This is something that I see.
00:23:22
matt
Right.
00:23:22
matt
Especially sweaters. yes
00:23:25
Conor Fowler
Do not put it on a hanger, even if it's a wooden hanger, don't put it on a hanger. And then it's weird when they say to block dry your sweaters, you're like, how is it going to get dry? It's like sitting on top of itself.
00:23:37
Conor Fowler
Well, it does. It just takes a while. And then you have like a nice, I don't know, ah sort of detergent scented sweater. It's very good.
00:23:49
zgb
Yeah, and it depends on what the... It depends on what the consistency of the sweater is, what the stain is, particularly.
00:23:54
Conor Fowler
yeah.
00:23:59
zgb
Or if you've just been wearing it.
00:23:59
matt
Yeah,
00:24:01
zgb
I mean, for for sweaters, I feel like are getting kind of funky. I'll just... If if it's wool, let's i'm I'm just going to speak about wool first.
00:24:09
matt
totally.
00:24:10
zgb
um If it's a little bit just... You know, I've been wearing it, I'll... winter and it just kind of feels a little musty, I'll put just a little cap of... I really like the Laundress for their cleaning products. I know everyone's going to have their favorites. That just happens to be mine. They have a great cedar wool shampoo.
00:24:32
zgb
which I usually have a mountain of sweaters by the end of the season that I'll just put, ah all you need is a cap, and I put it, when I put them in the wash, I put them on cold. And if you have a casual setting or delicate, delicate to me doesn't do anything.
00:24:48
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:50
zgb
I don't know. It's kind of, I think it's a, I think it's con. But if you have a light or a casual setting on your washer, you just put that in and it'll, they'll be fine.
00:25:01
zgb
As long as it's not a fine gauge and you don't... I don't know.
00:25:08
matt
Yeah.
00:25:08
zgb
You don't brutalize it. You just use your
00:25:10
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:25:11
matt
Well, you brought up a good point um about sweaters to, you know, just...
00:25:12
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:25:18
matt
feeling kind of funky because it takes it takes so much for like
00:25:20
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:25:24
matt
you know Wool was essentially the first wicking fabric that was used. right and so you know people don't i don't think a lot of people realize that wool, if you're wearing it, especially if you have like an undershirt or something on, like a t-shirt or button-down or whatever, like it doesn't really hold sweat the way that one would think it does.
00:25:46
matt
so like You can get a lot of you know a whole season of wear, basically, out of a sweater unless you spill something on
00:25:51
Conor Fowler
you
00:25:53
zgb
Right. And even in that case, you can. It is possible just to spot clean and just give it like a little rinse and you're good.
00:26:01
matt
Right.
00:26:03
zgb
with The other thing that I always recommend to people and people, a lot of people can complain about, like if you do have to block dry or just put it on a rack, the they talk about, oh, it will drip for three days.
00:26:16
zgb
it's The thing that I have done in the past is rolling it up, like you put it put it on a towel and like ah just a regular bath towel, and roll it.
00:26:24
Conor Fowler
mm-hmm
00:26:26
zgb
Roll it up, and it'll squeegee out all of the excess water so it'll dry faster.
00:26:31
matt
Oh, that's a good, that's a really good tip. I've never heard that.
00:26:34
zgb
Mm-hmm. yeah it's ah Yeah, it's served me well on all weights of wool, so give that a try next time.
00:26:41
matt
Yeah. Some, something I've done. Um, and I'm, I'm not a wool person. Um, but obviously for, you know, for vintage clothing, like I'll buy wool jackets and things.
00:26:50
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:26:51
matt
And, you know, something I didn't realize a few years ago, um probably the best estate sale hall I've ever had, uh,
00:26:57
Conor Fowler
you.
00:26:59
matt
I got a pre-war, or a, it's pre-World War II, I would say it's probably like early 20s, U.S. Navy CPO shirt that was, you know, ah obviously like that super heavy, like not quite melting wool, but like very substantial.
00:27:20
matt
And everything from the sale smelled to the high heavens with mothballs, which is not the easiest thing to get out of clothing. And um I realized that I actually, i washed, machine washed it on Gentle and hung it out in the sun for like literally, i think 36 hours or, you know, hung it outside for that long.
00:27:29
Conor Fowler
no
00:27:43
matt
And it came out and I was like, oh, ah i've you know, you've always heard, like, don't wash wool, whatever, you know, obviously you're not going to wash your suits, but, you know, that was, that was like one of my first experiences with like, A, getting out mothball smell, and B, like, actually realizing that like, oh, this shit can actually like, you know, it can hold up pretty well, depending.
00:28:06
Conor Fowler
you
00:28:08
zgb
And I've had similar experiences because in my vintage dealing days I focused a lot on tweed for sport coats especially.
00:28:15
matt
Right.
00:28:17
zgb
And but one of the things that I would do, i would air it out first. Like I'd just i'd hang it on a hanger, put it outside until it stopped smelling so mothball-y.
00:28:22
matt
Yes.
00:28:26
zgb
That gets out a lot of it most of the time.
00:28:29
matt
Yeah, the sun really the key factor. And like just the the outside of air.
00:28:32
zgb
yes And i know that people are going to be screaming into their phones listening to this, but I have indeed watched or washed one of my tweed jackets.
00:28:44
matt
Oh, interesting.
00:28:45
zgb
Actually, more than a few.
00:28:45
matt
hu How did it come out?
00:28:47
zgb
It came out fine. Because you have to I actually got this from I forget. I saw it on YouTube. Somebody did it. And I was... My life changed.
00:28:57
Conor Fowler
You know who also says to do this?
00:28:58
zgb
Oh,
00:28:59
Conor Fowler
Darren. Darren Johnston says to do this.
00:29:02
matt
Oh.
00:29:02
zgb
yeah. Yeah, I think he and I have talked about it.
00:29:03
Conor Fowler
To wash the jacket? Yeah, yeah.
00:29:05
zgb
So, well, so especially if it's a suit or if you have a couple of jackets, you want to, um, you want to get a pile so your, your washer doesn't like completely fall over on itself because that'll happen.
00:29:05
Conor Fowler
No, so anyway.
00:29:14
matt
Right.
00:29:18
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:29:20
zgb
The, if you have a top loading anyway. And, uh, what I do is I turn them inside out so it's just liner out and fold them in like, fold them in half, like A quarter, like fold it fold the halfway lengthwise and then topwise.
00:29:37
zgb
Put it into a laundry bag. Then make sure, make it as tight as you can around the jacket itself or the trousers.
00:29:48
zgb
And if you need to, use safety pins around the edge. so And when you put it in, similar thing, just like put whatever detergent or whatever cleaner you're using Have it on cold. I think for this i I did, it depends on how funky the jacket is, but I would do either regular or casual.
00:30:08
zgb
And because it's so compact, it gets clean, but the fibers aren't agitated in a way that will damage the wool. And then once you have them out, you put it you hang it as you would normally hang something like that to dry.
00:30:25
zgb
And I've had good results from it, honestly. And it saves so much money on cleaning bills.
00:30:30
matt
Yeah, yeah, because dry coating is not cheap, and it's also fucking gross.
00:30:35
zgb
It's gross and it's bad. I mean, you can find green cleaners. i agree
00:30:39
matt
Right, right.
00:30:40
Conor Fowler
Or people that say that they're green.
00:30:40
matt
I've used it, yeah.
00:30:40
zgb
Like, they're around. Yeah. Yeah, the same thing. And, I mean, I love my dry cleaner. but's I'm not going to... criticize the the industry, but because they they do work miracles sometimes.
00:30:55
zgb
but for youre yeah But if you're wearing suits all the time, or you're a vintage dealer or something like that, and you need just like volume, then i would so I'd give it a try.
00:30:56
matt
Totally, totally.
00:31:06
zgb
i mean, honestly, don't take any risks besides doing the just the act of doing this but it's worth it's yeah investing in like a good clean a good conditioner or shampoo for specifically for wool is it'll save you a lot of money and that's mostly what i i think one of the things about that has driven me to this like being so obsessed with this sort of thing is that it's so much less expensive to mend your clothes to
00:31:33
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:31:36
matt
Yes.
00:31:39
zgb
wash them properly, just taking care of them in general. And because a lot of the time when I talk about the sword thing, people are like, oh, it's so elitist to to be like, oh, well, you buy, like, let's talk about alton Alden shoes, for example. You buy $500 pair of shoes that are going to last you the rest of your life. Not everyone can buy a $500 pair of shoes, but you can buy a secondhand pair and get them resold and they're fine.
00:32:08
matt
Right.
00:32:08
zgb
And they are out there.
00:32:10
matt
Yeah. I mean, you know, not just Alden, but like Floresheim, you know, Johnston and Murphy back in the day.
00:32:11
zgb
So,
00:32:14
zgb
yeah.
00:32:15
matt
Like, as long as you can you can figure out the sizing and get that right, like, there's ah there's a million options. Alden is just sadly the last one that survived.
00:32:24
zgb
Right.
00:32:26
matt
Yeah.
00:32:27
zgb
Right. And yeah, and even with back on my... back on my barber, the they have that great aftercare service, which is completely laid out, and I just got mine back.
00:32:39
matt
Right.
00:32:42
zgb
So my first ever barber was an extra large children's Beaufort that I've had probably for 15 years now.
00:32:49
Conor Fowler
It's love.
00:32:51
zgb
I bought it at North River Outfitters on Charles Street, RIP, for all my Boston people out there. And it's I call it the Frankenjacket now. because it's...
00:33:02
matt
Oh, have they patched it up and and whatnot?
00:33:04
zgb
Oh yeah. Multiple times. i finally I finally went for the lining, um, or the the hand warmer lining in leather instead of cotton.
00:33:06
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:33:14
Conor Fowler
it's i love which I love that John hates that shit, but he's wrong. It's better.
00:33:21
zgb
Well, it's only because I had taken it in, I had, this would have been the second time that I got my cuffs fixed.
00:33:21
Conor Fowler
It's way better.
00:33:28
zgb
So i was like, I guess, i'll you know, I'll try the leather. Maybe it will last a little bit longer.
00:33:31
matt
Right.
00:33:31
Conor Fowler
think it just is, it's, it's a suitable, right? It's like, it's a tough ah thing. I mean, I know there are ethical quandaries about it, but
00:33:42
zgb
Well, that's ah that's another thing that I feel strongly about. I mean, is we're all we're all vintage people here, so buying vintage leather, to me, is so much more not only economical but eco-friendly because it's already made and like people talk about the vegan leathers and all this stuff if it's not they're plastic yeah mhm
00:34:03
matt
Oh, there yeah. The only, like... it Yeah, I mean, i am vegan.
00:34:07
Conor Fowler
It is just plastic.
00:34:09
matt
Have been for nearly nine years at this point. And everything I, you know, everything I buy is secondhand, basically. So, like, I wear Vans skate highs, which are suede, but my buddy thrifted both pairs.
00:34:17
zgb
mhm mhm
00:34:22
matt
You know, shit like that.
00:34:22
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:34:23
matt
ah The vegan... Vegan leather is absolutely, like, not the fucking answer.
00:34:31
Conor Fowler
Well, yeah, it's a it's a marketing term.
00:34:33
matt
Yeah. And I know that there's like, I can't remember where I read it.
00:34:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:34:37
matt
And it was not that recently, but like within the past year, um you know, there's people that are making like, are trying to develop like cactus leather and things like that, which sounds incredible.
00:34:49
matt
If you can get like the right consistency with something natural, that's not like animal based. Hell yeah.
00:34:56
zgb
Yeah, and I've seen mushroom leather too.
00:34:58
matt
Mushroom leather. Interesting.
00:35:00
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:35:01
zgb
Yeah, oh yeah, that's one I've seen that ive I thought was pretty cool, but also it's just like, just, I don't know, don't, I always, i don't know, I feel weird about it with the, well it's something else.
00:35:09
Conor Fowler
it's
00:35:11
matt
Well, it also kind of ties back into like consumerism. I
00:35:15
Conor Fowler
It's the tofu pup thing. It's like, you don't need to be eating a hot dog shaped thing in order to be vegan.
00:35:15
zgb
Right.
00:35:23
matt
i don't agree with that.
00:35:23
Conor Fowler
There's other shit.
00:35:24
matt
like I hate that argument, actually.
00:35:24
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like, need to eat some vegetables, eat some beans, eat some other stuff.
00:35:31
matt
Well, yeah,
00:35:31
Conor Fowler
it doesn't have to My point is it doesn't have to look like meat.
00:35:36
matt
but there is, you know,
00:35:38
Conor Fowler
There's no reason that it has to look like meat. It's looking like meat to make people feel less bad about eating tofu.
00:35:45
matt
Not necessarily. I mean, i i enjoy, you know, a Beyond Burger from time to time or an Impossible sometimes. Like, it's just, in you know...
00:35:54
Conor Fowler
That's this does different than the fucking tofu pup.
00:35:58
matt
How is it different? Like...
00:35:59
Conor Fowler
Because I think the tofu pup is like, it's a tofu hot dog.
00:36:01
matt
I don't know what the tofu pup is, but... Yeah, well, I mean, sometimes you want a hot dog. Like, and if it tastes like a real hot dog, then, you know, it's enjoyable.
00:36:12
Conor Fowler
So, it needs I mean, there's so much bad about hot dogs though, and it's because they're animal products. So like they are carcinogenic because they are animal products. We don't need to make them look like animal products and add carcinogens to them, do we?
00:36:27
matt
Well, I mean, if you're making it out of tofu, it's probably not carcinogenic.
00:36:32
Conor Fowler
But you want to have the whole hot dog experience.
00:36:35
matt
Yeah, because it's because it's something that's like ah reminiscent, nostalgic. I don't know. Like, it's it's comforting. Like,
00:36:44
Conor Fowler
And that's allowed, but I'm saying it's it's it's the wrong thing.
00:36:44
zgb
It's kind of just a big...
00:36:48
Conor Fowler
It's like vegan leather. You're solving a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be solved, I guess.
00:36:53
matt
I don't, I don't conflate those two things at all. Like the vegan leather is, is definitely like, I mean, pleather has been a thing for a long time now.
00:36:57
zgb
Yeah, I think.
00:37:01
matt
It's just called vegan leather, sadly, but like, you know, Hey,
00:37:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I guess that's true. But there are new formulations, right? Because, I mean, my brother bought some vegan leather Blundstones and they were like as expensive as Blundstones, but made out of plastic.
00:37:10
matt
yeah. Yeah. I mean,
00:37:15
matt
Solovare does the same thing with their Northampton factory. like I think there's ah there's an entire vegan shoe brand that I think Solovare makes. um Yeah, that's that's not... I don't know.
00:37:29
matt
me Me wanting a hot dog that's that's vegan sometimes is is far less ah harmful, I think, than...
00:37:37
zgb
Yeah, I think just because, well, I mean, hot dogs kind of a in-between example because it is a byproduct, as is leather.
00:37:43
matt
Right, right.
00:37:45
zgb
So I have a ah cousin who has tried every type of dietary thing. She brought tofurkey to Thanksgiving sort of thing. And it's, yeah, it's just really wanting to be included, I guess.
00:37:57
zgb
Yeah. If someone's having a hot dog, you can also want that.
00:37:58
matt
And it's way better than it used to be, I will say.
00:38:00
zgb
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I have a Beyond Burger if they're available just because I don't like eating red meat.
00:38:06
matt
Yeah.
00:38:07
Conor Fowler
I've eaten all that shit. And like, when I go to talk about, I get the bean stuff.
00:38:11
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:38:11
Conor Fowler
You know, and so I'm like not a not a big meat mouth person, but like I just think that it's. um
00:38:21
matt
The...
00:38:22
Conor Fowler
It's a way to get processed foods into people. Right. Rather than eating whole foods like vegetables or fruits or whatever the fuck it is. Right. It still is a processed food.
00:38:36
matt
Well, every every food is processed, unless you literally get it yourself out the ground.
00:38:36
Conor Fowler
And that's bad. Right.
00:38:40
Conor Fowler
Certainly every food is processed, but you know what I'm talking about.
00:38:43
matt
Yeah, yeah. Also, i have to say, this is completely off topic, well, off the show topic, but Taco Bell really fucking dropped the ball on like being late to the vegetarian-vegan game, because it's been a staple for as its entire existence, basically. Yeah.
00:39:01
Conor Fowler
It's weird though. I mean, I went and had all black bean stuff and it was like great and it was like easy.
00:39:08
matt
Yeah, totally. Yeah, but I'm saying like...
00:39:09
Conor Fowler
They like didn't, I didn't have to say like, could i have beans on that please?
00:39:09
zgb
Yeah,
00:39:13
matt
Right, right.
00:39:13
Conor Fowler
It was like.
00:39:14
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:14
matt
I mean, like, they, they you know, ah got beat to the punch by Del Taco doing the Beyond shit, and like, they haven't actually, you know, they barely market as vegetarian or vegan options, and it's like, come on, guys.
00:39:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:29
matt
Get your head in the game.
00:39:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah. <unk>s though
00:39:31
matt
Anyway, okay, so, wolves.
00:39:32
zgb
isn it was.
00:39:34
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:39:35
zgb
Well, I was going to segue this to what should you do if you get ketchup on your sweater from eating a hot dog.
00:39:35
matt
Resilience.
00:39:42
matt
Oh, yes.
00:39:46
zgb
So I have this, vegan or not vegan. So I have this like, um this handy dandy that I'm going to laminate soon.
00:39:57
zgb
It's the Martha Stewart Living Stain Removal Guide.
00:40:00
matt
Oh, wow.
00:40:02
zgb
And this came with the paper when they were still doing the paper subscriptions of the magazine. Now it's all digital, which I appreciate, again, eco-friendly, but also I just really miss it.
00:40:16
zgb
Because you would get extras like this. And i have a, I follow this team, they're a husband and wife team of paranormal investigators called Dana and Greg Newkirk.
00:40:29
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
00:40:29
zgb
And Dana is
00:40:30
matt
I thought you were goingnna say Scully. Right.
00:40:32
zgb
I wish. No. No, they're also, Dana and Greg are also very great. But the, Dana, she talks about when you're doing research, and this is important in any field, I think, you have to get at least two books.
00:40:48
zgb
Like, actual book references. Because now there's so much on the internet that's wrong. And, or if you just get it from AI, like,
00:40:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:40:59
zgb
um and
00:41:01
zgb
You know, it's just, it's helpful to go back and find, I mean, there are a bunch of books that you can buy that are all about cleaning. There's one on here that they mentioned that really liked.
00:41:13
zgb
I'll have to find it and send it to you. i'll so I'll send you a list of recommendations afterwards, but this little handy dandy thing.
00:41:18
Conor Fowler
i needed your I knew you did your research, though, I mean, ah
00:41:21
zgb
Oh, this is, I've had this for, like, I have a binder.
00:41:26
Conor Fowler
of cleaning stuff.
00:41:27
zgb
this This is the level the level that we're at. Yeah, cleaning and mending stuff that i like I've had since I was a kid just because I have always been really into clothing. So I want want to learn how to take care of it.
00:41:40
zgb
And this in particular. So for ketchup in particular, and we i'll I'll scan this and send it to you.
00:41:43
Conor Fowler
Interesting.
00:41:47
zgb
For sauces, you use a combination solvent. Then using an eyedropper, you flush the white vinegar. You flush the the stain with white vinegar for to get the color out.
00:42:01
zgb
So you you often...
00:42:01
matt
White vinegar is is such an amazing thing to use when you're cleaning clothing. like I didn't start using it until, i don't know, five or six years ago, but like it's it's a game changer.
00:42:14
zgb
That and lemon juice, baking soda, it's it's all stuff that everybody has, just no one remembers how to do it because no one listens to grandma anymore.
00:42:19
matt
Right.
00:42:24
matt
Dawn don Dish Liquid also. Shout out Dawn for cleaning ducts and cleaning clothes.
00:42:27
zgb
Yeah.
00:42:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah, Dawn is a big deal.
00:42:28
zgb
Yeah.
00:42:29
Conor Fowler
And you never use Dawn? was going to say, they use it to clean the ducts that they poison with oil.
00:42:35
zgb
Best marketing move ever.
00:42:35
Conor Fowler
Bastards.
00:42:37
matt
Oh, 100%. Oh,
00:42:38
zgb
But um also Dawn makes a die-free version. And that's even better because it, yeah, because I get scared every time I see blue, like,
00:42:43
matt
ah really?
00:42:48
zgb
if I like detergent that's scentless, not because I'm sensitive or anything, but because I wear perfume and I don't want it to clash with my perfume.
00:42:55
matt
got Gotcha, gotcha.
00:42:55
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:56
zgb
So i find i found like I find a lot of clear stuff, and Dawn does make a dyeless one, because if I'm putting blue, like a blue washer, on a white something, I get really freaked out.
00:43:00
matt
Right.
00:43:07
matt
I feel it.
00:43:09
zgb
Yeah. So, anyway, I just... I do have this whole list. I won't read the whole thing out, because no one wants to listen to it. I'll send it to you.
00:43:17
matt
Yeah, we'll post it.
00:43:17
zgb
But... Yeah, thank you. And it's it's just so much better for to find, like, even there are these old house wifery guides all over the place and used bookstores and yard sales, estate sales. I see them all the time.
00:43:32
zgb
And those, and just getting back to the basics of that can save you so much money in cleaning bills or or buying something new.
00:43:37
matt
Right.
00:43:38
Conor Fowler
Yeah, read a book.
00:43:39
matt
Yeah, my like my
00:43:40
zgb
Read a book.
00:43:40
Conor Fowler
right
00:43:43
zgb
No, Mm-hmm.
00:43:44
matt
my favorite cleaning product is called Biz. I don't know if it's if it's a regional thing, but it's it's basically OxiClean on steroids. um
00:43:52
zgb
mean
00:43:53
matt
And I think that it's been around for like 75 or 80 years. It's an old ass company.
00:44:00
zgb
Yeah, we have borax up here, which is thing for my book.
00:44:02
matt
Yeah, Borac. It's similar. Very similar.
00:44:05
zgb
Yeah. And I also, i don't, it depends on what I'm working with. But I will not, sometimes you just have to say uncle and use bleach, and I, And, you know, that sucks, but if something...
00:44:17
matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:21
zgb
A lot of the time, that people use it with shirts, and, like, white shirts, and it will ruin the integrity of the fabric, but it will get that stain out.
00:44:32
matt
Right, right.
00:44:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's not good. I was going to say my only real tip is like I use an ice cube because I spill shit on myself all the time. It's like ah mango chutney, something serious.
00:44:43
zgb
Oh.
00:44:44
Conor Fowler
I'm eating fucking Gobi Manchuria and it's red shit all over me.
00:44:47
zgb
Oh.
00:44:48
Conor Fowler
And the ice cube really has been my faithful stain remover for a long time. I mean, because it's like spot checking. It's like spot cleaning. You're just dabbing a little bit.
00:45:02
Conor Fowler
I don't know. I think that it works pretty well. And you know, they don't want you to know about it because it's free, basically.
00:45:10
zgb
Yeah, there's that. I mean, I carry a Tide pen with me as well.
00:45:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I got a Tide pen too.
00:45:14
zgb
um
00:45:15
Conor Fowler
Fortunately, I've never used it
00:45:17
zgb
Yes, it's that's that's for like real emergencies, but I always like, for example, when when I was in college, I had a friend who, total clothes horse, bought really expensive things. Like he was the first person I ever met who we went into Burberry and he just bought $300 shirt, t-shirt.
00:45:36
zgb
And I was like, but what the hell are you doing?
00:45:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah, they're out there.
00:45:39
zgb
Yeah, they're out there.
00:45:39
Conor Fowler
was it Was it all cotton?
00:45:39
zgb
I mean, it you know, I don't know. I think it was, this was like 2010. So it's it very well might've been, but yeah. But at the same time, like I, I let him borrow my Tide pen all the time.
00:45:53
zgb
And one time he came to my dorm room with his tie that he, i think he spilled red wine all over it or something. And he was like trying to soak the entire tie with the Tide pen. And I was like, this this is it so I just took it and I soaked it in like a little basin that I had.
00:46:12
zgb
And he he had he just had no idea. And this guy was paying, I'm sure his local cleaner was mad at me because he was paying to get his ties cleaned. And he was paying them to sew buttons back on.
00:46:25
matt
Oh, wow.
00:46:26
zgb
was like, you are taking...
00:46:26
Conor Fowler
Well, that's a rich person right there.
00:46:28
matt
Yeah.
00:46:28
Conor Fowler
That's a mark.
00:46:28
matt
Yeah.
00:46:29
zgb
Oh my god. I was like, it's... I don't know if it's... Well, I mean, probably. Yeah, definitely.
00:46:34
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:46:35
zgb
There's that cognitive dissonance if you grew up with money, but it also is just like... This is why like when you see a millionaire and then all of his children are useless. Because they just never learned that how to save money.
00:46:45
matt
Right.
00:46:51
zgb
or or to do things for themselves. And that's that's my exhibit A, because yeah, he came for money. But I was just like, come on, bud like Don't use my entire Tide pen on your tie.
00:47:03
Conor Fowler
That's like my friend put a grilled cheese on my mom's stove. Cause he thought it was like a griddle, like his one at his parents' house.
00:47:13
Conor Fowler
So he just put it onto the stove and turned it on.
00:47:16
matt
Oh, no. no
00:47:17
Conor Fowler
And that was that. I mean, luckily the house was not burned down, but like, this is the valedictorian of the school.
00:47:25
zgb
oh no oh yeah but i mean sure does yeah but the point like the point i'm trying to make is just i don't know when you get into clothing it's just especially like even if you are if you have money great you know good for you but also just it's time saving if you can just do it yourself yeah
00:47:26
Conor Fowler
Yes. And that's just, I mean, yeah Takes all kinds.
00:47:52
Conor Fowler
And you want to wear that stuff too. I mean, my dry cleaner sometimes takes a month to get me shit back.
00:47:57
zgb
Right. Yeah. Not even, it's not, if it's not even a cost factor, it's like a, no, I need this button back on my shirt now.
00:48:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah, because I'm fucking dying and i want to wear this shirt, you know. It's imperative.
00:48:12
zgb
And yeah. And to the point of, uh, like particularly dangerous foods like curries, um, we were talking about ramen noodles earlier. I've, I've kind of thrown caution to the wind and I don't care anymore.
00:48:25
zgb
Like, I will put napkins in my shirt and have it.
00:48:28
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah, you got to have a bib.
00:48:30
zgb
speaker Because I, aye especially with something like ramen noodles or anything involving soy sauce, it's like, I, yeah.
00:48:36
matt
Right, right.
00:48:36
Conor Fowler
It's the like tonkatsu like Yeah. yeah
00:48:41
zgb
Yeah. It's just not, i I don't want to take the risk. That's why there napkins.
00:48:46
matt
Yes. My big culprit is coffee. Like every white t-shirt that I have, or like i have a couple of white crew neck sweatshirts and there's coffee sayings on all of them.
00:48:49
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:48:56
matt
And I have gotten past the point of caring. I'm like, okay, I'm going to drip coffee on myself at some point.
00:49:02
zgb
mm-hmm
00:49:03
Conor Fowler
My mom had this shirt in the 90s that was all like coffee stains, you know, like they make those shirts that are like 50 whatever is and it has like a little thing underneath them.
00:49:13
matt
Oh, that's fucking funny.
00:49:15
Conor Fowler
So I thought it was really funny.
00:49:15
matt
I've never seen that.
00:49:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's like this says you're like late for work coffee stain.
00:49:17
matt
yeah
00:49:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's a shirt, it's but it was white too. So it's like really it's fucked now. I mean, I'm sure.
00:49:31
matt
So question for you guys. And I guess, you know, to to get another topic under our belts, how often do you wash your jeans?
00:49:45
matt
And like, you...
00:49:45
zgb
You go first. there
00:49:46
Conor Fowler
I'll go first.
00:49:47
zgb
and
00:49:47
Conor Fowler
Not very often unless they like have a serious odor.
00:49:51
matt
Okay.
00:49:54
matt
So like, okay, maybe maybe I should rephrase. Like, what do you think the approximate wares between washes are for you?
00:50:04
Conor Fowler
Oh, uh, I mean, I may be wearing them two or three times, but I wear jeans a lot.
00:50:11
matt
Yeah, this is true.
00:50:11
zgb
Yeah, or i I have a pair i have i have two pairs of jeans.
00:50:12
matt
Okay.
00:50:15
zgb
both are men's jeans because I can't handle like when I'm wearing jeans it's because I'm doing something that requires them um so usually that's like one or two times depending on how filthy I get doing whatever it was I was doing but for things like corduroy pants or khakis yeah yeah khakis like
00:50:23
matt
Right, right.
00:50:30
matt
Okay.
00:50:35
matt
Right, right. Yeah, I guess we can include all cotton pants.
00:50:37
Conor Fowler
Well, like khakis.
00:50:39
Conor Fowler
Khakis, I'm wearing them probably once because then they are wrinkled.
00:50:39
matt
Yeah.
00:50:43
zgb
Yeah, or, um, I, yeah, probably one to two times. It really, yeah.
00:50:46
Conor Fowler
Which is shitty, I know, but...
00:50:46
zgb
theres
00:50:48
matt
Right. So you're washing them every, every like two wears essentially.
00:50:54
zgb
Yeah, I'd say about...
00:50:54
Conor Fowler
On cold and hang drying them, yeah.
00:50:57
matt
Okay.
00:50:58
zgb
um'm I'm a little bit less delicate with my khakis, actually. I, um, I do cold, but I also, I put them in the wash. Or in the dryer, rather. Because I, like, I like the feeling of the crispness until I wear them a couple of times, and that's actually how I gauge how many times I should be wearing them. Like, if they feel really misshapen and out of form, that's when I have to wash them again.
00:51:24
matt
Okay. i am I am the antithesis of what everyone would tell you is the way to treat clothing, but I wash and dry everything, and my my entire wardrobe is cotton, essentially.
00:51:37
matt
So, yeah.
00:51:38
zgb
Mm-hmm.
00:51:39
matt
i'm I am a fan of drying because I just don't have the fucking time.
00:51:44
Conor Fowler
what's it's like it snaps the clothes into shape kind of
00:51:44
zgb
Yeah.
00:51:48
matt
Yeah, totally. Totally. And, I mean, honestly, like, from the highest end stuff that I've ever had to like basic, you know, 90s vintage t-shirts. Like I have not had anything fall apart because I've, I've tried it. Like all, all the things that fall apart are from me wearing my clothes into the fucking ground.
00:52:08
zgb
Yeah. And I mean, we we don't have time to get into mending today, but maybe a part two episode would be fun.
00:52:12
matt
Yeah, we should definitely do a part two. Yeah. Part of the reason I wanted to talk about this is because i got into clothing through the like
00:52:15
zgb
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:52:21
matt
or I got officially into clothing, let's say through the like raw denim, you know, scene of the early 2000s, which is still going and like, I still, you know, I appreciate it.
00:52:25
Conor Fowler
Thank
00:52:33
matt
But the one of my biggest realizations was the like, where wear these for six months and then wash them is absolutely garbage. Like, that's that is not the way that the cotton should be worn because it, you know, washing it and cleaning it, like it, it stretches out because it's a natural fiber. And then it's, you know, doing that basically makes it, you know, come back into its original form and therefore it lasts longer.
00:53:06
matt
Like, you know, you, you don't wash a pair of pants and you wear them every day or every couple of days for six months, you're going to have a ah hole in the crotch immediately. Like, you know, going to have holes in the knees.
00:53:15
zgb
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:53:17
matt
There's just,
00:53:17
Conor Fowler
This is why I'm always having the crotch blowouts. I mean...
00:53:20
matt
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like all of us that that came up in that scene, i think it's changed a little bit now, thankfully. But like, you know, all all of us back in the day, we were wearing our APCs and shit. And it's like, oh, cool. I have a hole in the crotch because I've been wearing these every day for three months.
00:53:36
Conor Fowler
You have to give it a bath.
00:53:37
matt
Yeah.
00:53:38
Conor Fowler
It's like your car.
00:53:38
matt
it like
00:53:38
Conor Fowler
You have to give it a bath.
00:53:40
matt
Yeah, yeah. The friction, you know, the the way that the way that Cotton is is made is you know, not intuitively all that strong if you if it's just continually stretching out.
00:53:56
zgb
yeah and it i mean getting into denim bro territory it depends on the weave it depends on there are so many factors that go into that but the another thing i'd like to bring up too is like when you're wearing sweaters like when it's time for layers let's say one thing that we've i think we've forgotten just because it's been getting warmer out uh every year and um just the way that fashion has kind of
00:54:00
matt
Right.
00:54:01
Conor Fowler
you
00:54:23
zgb
settled into the mainstream is that we don't wear many layers anymore or we don't we just don't think about it and way back when i mean you don't find a lot of underclothes from early periods because that's what they would wear as their foundation garment so whenever like today when i'm wearing i don't want to wear a colored shirt because i just don't want to deal with that so i'm wearing long sleeve cotton t-shirt underneath my sweater and thereby i don't really have to wear I don't have to wash my sweater for this wear.
00:54:56
Conor Fowler
It's a barrier.
00:54:56
zgb
Does that make sense?
00:54:56
matt
Right, right.
00:54:57
zgb
Yeah.
00:54:57
Conor Fowler
It's a barrier.
00:54:58
zgb
Yeah.
00:54:58
Conor Fowler
It's a sweat barrier. Yeah, it's great.
00:55:00
zgb
Yeah.
00:55:01
Conor Fowler
And that's what I'm, that's ah the layering thing is great.
00:55:01
zgb
And that's why... Mhm.
00:55:04
Conor Fowler
Giuseppe is doing this too with the like little mock neck under with the sweater. It's good stuff.
00:55:10
zgb
Yeah, and I, I mean, one style tip for people who are just getting into this, if you are going to the point where you you do wear button-up shirts and you wear a jacket and you do the whole thing, just make sure you get a v-neck cotton shirt if you really want to wear it as an undergarment because I see people do that all the time who are just trying to be so fly but they have the little crew neck looking out and just like, oh, honey.
00:55:34
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:55:36
Conor Fowler
That's my only published piece of work ever. In the UMBC, the Retriever Weekly magazine, I wrote in an article about undershirts. You got to have the V-neck because you don't want to be, as you said, you don't want to be the white neck plebe.
00:55:52
matt
Or if you're if you're nasty with it, you get the A shirt. Like my my grandpa used to wear.
00:55:56
Conor Fowler
Right. Right, right. But I feel like that doesn't that doesn't serve as an undershirt in many ways.
00:56:04
matt
I mean, technically, it's probably inferior.
00:56:08
Conor Fowler
Well, like the main benefit of and of the undershirt, I would think, is the perspiration angle.
00:56:13
matt
Right.
00:56:14
Conor Fowler
And the A shirt doesn't do that at all.
00:56:17
matt
Oh, for sure. For sure.
00:56:17
Conor Fowler
I'm sure it was cool as shit, but I mean, A shirt is, i don't know. yeah I feel like it's like a fashion garment these days.
00:56:26
matt
Right, right.
00:56:28
zgb
ah So I'm a little off on my terms here. Is the A-shirt like a wife beater or...
00:56:33
Conor Fowler
the life appreciator.
00:56:34
matt
The wife pleaser, as Renato coined.
00:56:37
zgb
Yes, okay.
00:56:41
matt
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the best euphemism I've ever heard in my life.
00:56:42
zgb
I have it. No problem.
00:56:44
matt
Wife pleaser.
00:56:45
zgb
The wife pleaser. Oh. i'm I'm rewatching Sopranos right now, so I just have so many images flying through my mind of Tony Soprano in A Wife Pleaser. like, hmm.
00:56:57
matt
Yeah, yeah, it's the it's the old school way, that's for sure.
00:57:00
zgb
Yeah.
00:57:00
Conor Fowler
And he never does.
00:57:03
zgb
Well, i been what I was thinking of as well is that I've seen coming back, surprisingly, are the tight weave fishnet shirts.
00:57:07
Conor Fowler
Thank you.
00:57:12
matt
Oh, yeah. ah My buddy Matt's brand Factors had a bunch of vintage ones that he sourced. i think I think they were Belgian, like army undershirts or something. and I can't remember the exact country, but like they're not for me. But when I saw people rocking them I was like, that's cool shit.
00:57:30
zgb
Well, yeah, but I mean, those are like, if you think of Marlon Brando in Streetcar, like he's wearing those as his foundational garment.
00:57:34
matt
Right, right.
00:57:37
zgb
And during summer or just being in New Orleans, that makes a lot of sense. So you can still have your your foundational undergarment and wear a shirt over it.
00:57:43
matt
Oh, 100%.
00:57:47
zgb
but you don't have to wash your shirt so many times. Unless you're just a really sweaty dude. And, you know, respect. They're out there. It happens.
00:57:53
matt
Right, right.
00:57:53
Conor Fowler
Brando's a swarthy guy.
00:57:57
zgb
Who?
00:57:58
Conor Fowler
Brando?
00:57:58
zgb
Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry, I misheard.
00:57:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:58:01
matt
Okay.
00:58:01
zgb
Who's that?
00:58:03
matt
So I think another part of of this discussion could be the ring around the collar that we've all dealt with over the years.
00:58:03
zgb
um
00:58:11
zgb
Yeah.
00:58:12
matt
Yeah, what?
00:58:12
zgb
Yeah, that's another instance in which I use bleach very sparingly if it's tough. What you do, I mean, you can get an eyedropper, but you can also just use, I mean, this is this is last resort. I'll start at last resort, and then I'll like work my way up.
00:58:28
zgb
um Like, using a Q-tip and dipping it in the bleach and kind of painting over where you want it to be, letting it sit, and then washing it. as normal with other whites.
00:58:44
matt
Right. What do you do if it's not a white oxford?
00:58:45
zgb
know what No other colors.
00:58:47
matt
Or like a white shirt? Okay.
00:58:49
Conor Fowler
Hmm.
00:58:49
Conor Fowler
Hmm.
00:58:49
zgb
That I would use hydrogen peroxide in a similar way.
00:58:54
zgb
I'd dab that. um You can also... Hold on, if I have to consult my handy dandy pamphlet. it um Sweat is like just completely very difficult anyway.
00:59:09
matt
Yeah. Pit stains the worst.
00:59:12
zgb
the worst. And even even good old Martha, like, she, it's low, low recoverability.
00:59:19
matt
Yes, yes.
00:59:20
zgb
But yeah, you're supposed to, you can, um, uh, soak them, I'd soak them first.
00:59:25
Conor Fowler
you.
00:59:28
zgb
Here they recommend using salt water for protein-based. Um, and then you can flush it with vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, with an eyedropper or a
00:59:43
zgb
or and a q-tip so and then just kind of let it soak again and just see what happens unfortunately
00:59:52
matt
Something I'd, oh, keep keep going.
00:59:55
zgb
i was just going to say there's also like you have there are bars specific bars now bars of soap I can't think of any brands right now that are just for cuffs and collars yeah and you just you you rub it on do a similar thing where like I'd soak it first and then I'd rub on
01:00:04
matt
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
01:00:11
zgb
some of those, even just bar soap, like PEARS bar soap is really good because it's glycerin based and it's, it's die well it's not dye free but it's it won't come off on your clothing so anything anything that you can use I'd say like that would not be corrosive on your own skin
01:00:13
matt
Right.
01:00:18
matt
Right, right.
01:00:23
matt
Yes.
01:00:31
matt
Right. Something I used to do when I was in a shirt and tie every day and I was doing my you know weekly washing of my seven shirts that i or six shirts that I had Um, and I might've like put this on in my and you know, they might've posted something about this years ago, but I would take dish liquid, you know, sprinkle a little bit on the collar and then like take, take all the sides and rub them together. And so that friction with the soap, like ended up breaking down the the sweat that was on the collar and, came out in the wash immediately.
01:01:08
zgb
Yeah. and Also, think about saving toothbrushes.
01:01:12
matt
Oh yeah, totally, totally.
01:01:12
zgb
Because, yeah, if if you go to your dentist every six months and get your teeth cleaned like you should, you're going to have a bunch of toothbrushes stacking up.
01:01:25
zgb
And, yeah, I mean, they're great for spot cleaning.
01:01:27
matt
They're great for spot cleaning too.
01:01:30
zgb
They're great for, also, one thing to do for wools or any kind of fiber like that is to brush them.
01:01:38
matt
Yes.
01:01:39
Conor Fowler
yeah they like that i just bought a garment brush
01:01:41
zgb
Yeah, and that can be used for surface stains especially. Many of the the stained things I find in vintage bins or whatever are just surface stains and can come out very easily.
01:01:55
matt
I mean,
01:01:55
zgb
But um yeah yeah, cuffs and collars, that's always that's always tough. any Any kind of sweat, especially if it's baked in, just say your prayers.
01:02:07
Conor Fowler
Or, you know, you got adopt my lifestyle of sedentary anti-work.
01:02:15
Conor Fowler
Um,
01:02:15
zgb
ah That helps too.
01:02:16
zgb
Yeah.
01:02:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah, and then you just, as long as you're sedentary, you're not sweating, baby. That's what I'm saying.
01:02:23
matt
Yeah, I stopped wearing deodorant like, I don't know, 15 years ago or something. And part of that was because, you know, natural deodorant, in my opinion, has never done anything for me.
01:02:35
matt
um And then, you know, the the chemical laden shit is part of the reason why you get, you know, ah pit stains and things. So.
01:02:45
zgb
Mhm.
01:02:45
Conor Fowler
It's the aluminum.
01:02:47
matt
Yeah, it
01:02:47
zgb
Mhm. I always think that.
01:02:48
Conor Fowler
Price- part that's the other part of my article is that it's the fucking aluminum so you just buy deodorant and not antiperspirant then it will be fine and you will not have as pronounced pit stains, but your antiperspirant is actually making them worse.
01:02:56
matt
Yeah.
01:02:59
matt
And I, honestly, I've never got once gotten to complain on how I smell.
01:03:02
Conor Fowler
Price-
01:03:05
matt
So I'm, I'm cool with just raw dog and that shit.
01:03:11
Conor Fowler
You heard it here first.
01:03:13
matt
Anyway. ah yeah, we're, we're, man, we only got through a little bit of what we were going to talk about, but, uh,
01:03:19
Conor Fowler
That's the whole show. I so i think that's what happens every time.
01:03:22
matt
Yeah, it's true. It's true. We didn't even talk about how shitty non-iron fabrics are, which is a hill I will forever die on. But, uh...
01:03:30
zgb
I think we all agree on that.
01:03:31
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:32
Conor Fowler
Well, if that's non-iron, it's polyester.
01:03:34
matt
Well, no, no, no. Non-iron, like, the 100% cotton, you know, Brooks Brothers.
01:03:38
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:03:39
matt
Because...
01:03:39
Conor Fowler
I always thought that that's treated. Uh... that's treated
01:03:44
matt
It's treated with what's essentially formaldehyde. And I can't think of anything... more disgusting to put on my skin than something that like a dead person is embalmed in.
01:03:59
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you put it, when you put it that way,
01:04:04
matt
yeah. yeah like I ain't dead yet. I don't need this on me.
01:04:07
Conor Fowler
and if you are wearing one of those, wrinkle free shirts, you look like a fucking corpse anyway.
01:04:15
matt
You heard it here first. But yeah, Zoe, this has been great. And we'll have to have you back on to talk about mending and maybe some shoe care and and things of that nature.
01:04:27
zgb
Yeah, I mean, that could be part three.
01:04:29
matt
Yeah, there we go.
01:04:30
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I think shoes would be good.
01:04:30
zgb
Shoes are a whole thing up to themselves.
01:04:30
matt
There we go. Yeah, I think we could talk for an hour about, you know, basically everything ah dealing with clothing maintenance. So, well, yeah, this will be the first of a series.
01:04:40
zgb
It just depends on my... Yeah, depends on how much content you need from me.
01:04:46
matt
all All of it. All of it. You're always welcome. But ah yeah, so um let's give you a chance to shout yourself out and where people can find you and what you're up to.
01:04:49
zgb
Thank you. my name is Zoe. I go by ZG Burnett on pretty much every platform. I'm on Instagram, pretty active on Instagram. I have a sub stack that I'm keeping up closely weekly.
01:05:17
zgb
The substack is working better. The Patreon's just for the um preppy witch tarot that I've been doing.
01:05:24
matt
Oh, hell yeah.
01:05:25
Conor Fowler
The sub stack is fucking legit. I mean, i read that as, as it is published.
01:05:29
zgb
Thank you.
01:05:29
Conor Fowler
I read that shit. So keep it up.
01:05:31
zgb
really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I, um... Yeah, it's it's fun. it's i mean, I...
01:05:35
Conor Fowler
It's well written. It's like, fuck. And I was going to talk about your thing with the gravestone too.
01:05:42
zgb
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that... um yeah
01:05:43
Conor Fowler
That whole saga I thought was fascinating.
01:05:45
matt
Well, let's talk about it.
01:05:46
zgb
Thanks.
01:05:47
Conor Fowler
Well, if we've got, if Zoe's got to go, then Zoe's got to go.
01:05:48
zgb
Yeah.
01:05:49
matt
Yeah, sure.
01:05:50
Conor Fowler
But if you've got a minute, I don't know.
01:05:50
zgb
Yeah.
01:05:52
Conor Fowler
It's up to you.
01:05:54
zgb
So I'm actually going to be talking about this on another podcast pretty soon.
01:05:57
matt
ah Okay. Gotcha. Yeah,
01:05:58
Conor Fowler
Oh, us we see how it is.
01:05:58
zgb
I talked...
01:05:58
zgb
to i It's...
01:06:00
Conor Fowler
Okay.
01:06:01
zgb
ah Yeah, they... they called dibs. Also, it's called Obsessed with Death, so it's a little bit different as far as...
01:06:06
matt
there you go.
01:06:06
Conor Fowler
No, no, no.
01:06:07
matt
There you go.
01:06:08
Conor Fowler
It's totally fine. um
01:06:12
matt
Yeah. but The last thing I'll say is I look forward to your Sunday research post every week. So yeah, I very much enjoy this.
01:06:17
zgb
Thank you. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. Yeah.
01:06:20
matt
And also your your dog, of course.
01:06:20
zgb
Thanks.
01:06:23
zgb
Oh, Oreo. he's He's over on the bed right now sleeping. I'm surprised
01:06:26
matt
Bye.
01:06:27
Conor Fowler
You're a good writer. and You're like a good narrative writer.
01:06:30
zgb
Thanks, because that's what I, I mean, one one other shout out is Antiques in the Arts Weekly where is where you can find my actual work.
01:06:34
Conor Fowler
you
01:06:39
zgb
Under ZG Burnett, I cover shows from just up and down the East Coast and auctions and things like that. So that's my main gig.
01:06:50
zgb
But otherwise, it's just Instagram and Substack.
01:06:55
matt
Everyone, yeah, get give Zoe a follow. And yeah, one more time, thank you for coming back on. well
01:07:03
zgb
Yeah, this was fun.
01:07:04
matt
yeah We'll continue our quest to maintain our clothing very soon.
01:07:10
zgb
Great, I look forward to it.
01:07:11
matt
Everyone, thank you for listening. ah We are at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram. Please give us a follow if you're on Instagram. Apocalypse Studs at gmail.com.
01:07:22
matt
if you want to send us an email or a meme or something interesting, anything really. ah Um, but yeah, I am math at rebels rogues.
01:07:33
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler.
01:07:37
matt
And we will see you next Wednesday.
01:07:41
Conor Fowler
ah didly Do do do.